Selected quad for the lemma: cause_n
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A18055
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An ansvvere made by Oliuer Carter, Bacheler of Diuinitie: unto certaine popish questions and demaundes
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Carter, Oliver, 1540?-1605.
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1579
(1579)
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STC 4697; ESTC S108169
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79,017
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198
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the authoritie of the Romaine church and of the Bishop of Rome is greater then the authoritie of Gods word An other saith That this is the iudgment of all them that thinke lightly that ground the authhoritie and vnderstanding of the Scriptures in the allowance of the Church and not conrariwise â—lay the foundation of the church in the authoritie of the scriptures There be no coÌ„maundemeÌ„ts of Christ but such only as bee taken so and holden by the Church Therefore the scriptures followe the Church but contrariewise the Church followeth not the Scriptures An other saith That the Apostles haue written certaine things not that their said writings should rule our faith or religion but rather that they should bee vnder and be ruled by our faith the scriptures are dumbe iudges the scriptures are like a nose of waxe I might alledge many authorities out of your owne writers which go about to extoll your church of Rome aboue God and his holy worde â—ut these may perswade all men which be not wilfully blinded how arrogantly and Luciferlike you do preferre your Church both contrarie to the manifest expresse woorde of God and also to the opinion iudgement of the Godly learned fathers whose authorities I haue cited But let the indifferent reader iudge whether our church which groundeth her selfe wholy onely vpon the heauenly Scriptures and submitteth her selfe to the spirit of God as the true interpreter of the same hearkeneth onely vnto the voyce of her Pastor Christ and acknowlegeth him onely to bee her heade according as we are taught by the scriptures be the true Church of God the Catholik Apostolike church or your church of Rome which innketh her selfe equal with god vsurpeth authoritie aboue his most holy woord will not haue Christ but the Pope her heade which wil be iudge in all causes whether Christ will or no which mainteineth no not in one point the Apostolike doctrine and faith but doeth persecute euen vnto death the true professors of the same Whereas you doo aske Howe our Church can be one For that as you say it is deuided into so many sectes I haue shewed before that we doo not disagree now at this day in matters of faith and true religion as your Church of Rome dooth in matters of great weight and importance It hath beene a vulgar and common prouerbe of long time vsed that the Diuell will haue his Chappell nearâ— Gods Church Among the olde Prophets was some one Balaam or other In the small number which accompanied our Sauiour Christ was one Iudas many carnal Capernaites which sought rather their belly then the aduauncement of Gods truth which pretended a zeale and followed Christ yet depended vppon olde customes and ceremoniall traditions and helde other fond opinions Among the true Apostles were false Apostles which though not altogether yet in some parte preached either circumcision or iustification by woorkes repugnant to the doctrine of the true Apostles as you doo Our Sauiour truely prophesied That there shoulde arise false Christes and false Prophets Saint Paule saith yet in an other sence There must be heresies eueÌ„ among you that they which are approoued among you might bee knowne By which he noteth that Gods Church is not onely subiect to striffe and dissention as touching orders and maners but also to heresies as touching doctrine We doo not stand so stifely vppon our reputation but doe confesse that as we are men so we may erre But wee trye our iudgementes and opinions by the touchstone of Gods woord not respecting the person but the doctrine which we allow of so farre as the holy scriptures do approoue the same in which is no errour at all We doe not denie but that there may be amongest vs some carnall fleshly Gospellers some Epicures and Athistes some giuen to mainteine vnprofitable and straunge opinions as there are in your Church of Rome The like there were in the Apostles time some which helde of Paule some of Apollo some of Peter yea some which seemed to haue beene of the number of the faithfull because they occupied a place in the Church of whom the Apostle speaketh saying Babes it is the last time and as you haue hearde that Antichrist shall come euen nowe are there many Antichristes whereby we knowe that it is the last time they went out from vs but they were not of vs for if they had bene of vs they would haue continued with vs. It is manifest that in the primitiue church therewere false brethreÌ„ which were cloaked with the name of Christianitie Arrius that damnable heretik the fauourers of his sect which deny Christ to be God bosted theÌ„selues That they only were Catholikes and called others which mainteined the truth against them sometimes Ambrosians and sometimes Athanasians as you doo call vs nowe Lutherans nowe Caluinists nowe Zwinglians Ebion that Heretike who affirmed Christ to be onely man and saith that the obseruation of the Lawe was very necessarie to saluation would needes be called a Christian All other heretikes which were many in the florishing time of the church as appeareth by the stories bragged that they held the true faith that they were the true Church Shal we therfore coÌ„clude say that the Prophets the Apostles the godly Christians and fathers of the primitiue Church were not of the true Church of God for that in their times there were manie sectes which couered them selues with the cloake collour of true religion Saint Paule forseing through Gods spirite what woulde come gaue this watchworde to the Colosians To beware least that anie shoulde goe about to spoyle them through phylosophie and vaine deceit through the traditions of men acording to the rudimeÌ„ts of the world and not after Christ He also forwarneth the Thessalonians that Antichrist the sonne of perdicion shall sitt as God in the temple of God shewing him selfe to be God. It is wonderfull to see howe you are blinded seing you stumble at a strawe and doe leape ouer a bloke You strain at a gnat and doe swallow a Camel You see a moath in another mans eye and perceiue not the beame which is in your owne eye You are most giltie your selues in that which you would haue to be a notorious crime in others For you agree not in the principall poyntes of religion as I haue noted before but in that you demauÌ„d Whether our Churche was euer of that maiestie that it might require the obedience of all nations or gather generall councelles and howe the titles which you set foorth by name can bee applied to our Church I saie that our Church hath and doth enioy such priuiledges and preheminence as is limited vnto hir by the worde of God Neuerthelesse we doe not challenge anie such authoritie to the obedience of all nations vnto our Church but doe pray in the name of Christ vnto the Lorde of Heauen and earth to poure forth the
foresaide states in their gouernement and ministerie And if he can proue vnto me that their Churche hath neuer lacked the same appointed officers or that anie other Churche or congregation besides oures hath alwayes kept that charge and I recant Answeare TRuth it is that Christ gaue some to be Apostles some Prophetes some Euangelistes some Pastoures and teachers but where doe you reade that our Sauiour Christe euer promised all these functions to continue successiuely to the worldes end Shew vnto me anie which was called apostle or prophet after Christ his Apostles Saint Paule the blessed Apostle maketh mentioÌ„ of false Apostles which alwaies withstood the doctrine of the Gospell maintained the ceremonies of the Lawe and the inuentions of their owne braine and set them selues opposite vnto the true Apostles and if you will claime your succession from them I will easily agree vnto you There hath bene Preachers and teachers at all times saue onely when they haue bene kept vnder by your tyrannie which haue preached Gods truth and reproued your grosse Idolatrie whom your Church hath alwaies persecuted vnto death and euen vntill this time there hath bene and are Christians in Graecia and Asia which haue euerâ—â—â—e and doe yet vtterly detest the Pope the head of your Church with all your deâ—â—â—s and traditions But shewe mee in one place I pray you of the Scripture where euer Christ promised anie such succession to continue in all ages Yâ— were so that the truth of Gods worde â— the functions in Gods Church should â—ceed alwaies by ordinary succession tâ— you had a good foundation to builde yâ— succession vpon Then Christ our Sauiâ— by right should not haue controuled â— Scribes and Pharesies which satâ— Moses chaire which bragged of succeâ—on as well as you doe saying We are the seed of AbrahaÌ„ we are the disciplâ— of Moses vnto vs God hath made â— promisses as for Christ we knowe nâ— from whence he came And therefâ— they asked Christ By what power he dâ— such thinges who gaue him that auâ—thoritie and so they might very well haâ— said in respect of their outward successioâ— For so Annas and Caiphas were Bysâ—ops aswell as Aaron But that warniâ— and admonicion which Saint Paule gaâ— vnto the congregation of Ephesus toucâ—ing succession might satisfie you I know this saith he that after my departingeâ— there shal greuous Woolues enter in amoung you not sparing the flocke moreouer of your owne selues shall mâ— arise speaking peruerse thinges And againe he saith That true faith cometh not by succession but by hearing not the Bishoppe of Rome but the worde God. Yf Christ had appoynted anie such succession would he haue forewarned vs that desolation of abhomination should sit â—â—â—he holy place and that Antichrist should â—â—â—rude him selfe into the roome of Christ If you looke well about you you haue no cause to glory in succession for that by your writers sufficient is spoken to discredit your succession for one saith That many Popes haue fallen into heresies that Hildebrand in whose time defection froÌ„ the faith tooke place was charged by a generall councell to be an adulterer a Churchrobber a periured person a maâ—queller a sorcerer and an apostata Another calleth the Popes monsters and 〈◊〉 shapen creatures If your heade and chiefe of your Church be such what shall we iudge of the rest I wil take for proofe of your succession euen the confessioÌ„ of Pope â—drian the fourth Succedimus non Peâ—â—â—o in pascendo sed Romulo in parriciâ—â—â—o We succeede saith he not Peter in â—â—â—eding but Romulus in killing To be â—â—â—t what auaileth the succession of your Church vnlesse you coulde prooue that she hath alwayes mainteined the doctrine of Christ For Saint Augustine saith Thaâ— many doo giue the outward marke of a Byshop to wolues and be wolues them selues That the truth of Gods woord maâ— be the touchstone of lawfull succession giuâ— eare to the godly councell of a learned father It becommeth vs saith he to obeâ— those Priestes in the Church which hauâ— their succession from the Apostles anâ— together with the succession of their Bishoprikes according to the good wil oâ— God the father haue receiued the vndoubted gift of the truth An other being pressed with the like succession saith If any of my predecessors haue not obserued and kept the same that our Lorâ— hath taught vs both by his example anâ— also by his commaundement his simplicitie may be pardoned but we if we doâ— the like can hope for no pardon beinâ— now admonished and instructed of ouâ— Lord. And comparing all other Churcheâ— with the primatiue â—hurch the same fathâ— saith If the pipes of the conduit whicâ— before ran with abundance happen â— faile do we not vse to search to the heaâ— The Pristes of God keeping Gods commaundementes must doo the same that if the truth haue fainted or failed in any point we returne to the original of our Lord and to the tradition of the Gospel and of the Apostles that thence wee may take the discretion of our dooings from whence the order it selfe and originall first began Thus muche concerning the succession of your Church hauing no warrant by Gods woorde Papist 6. AND for the necessarie vse and execution of the foresaide offices they must further bee asked what sacraments the ProtestaÌ„ts ministred for the space of a M. yeares together in which they confesse their congregation to haue beene neare or wholly hidde what correction or discipline they kept for offendors to whom they did preache their heresies Where did 〈◊〉 principall pastor sitte in iudgement â—â—â—re did they gather as in a councell â—â—â—ye the trueth in doubtfull matters Hâ—â—e might Christian men iustelie ofâ—â—â—d with some of their Bretheren haue sought out your officers or congregation to make complaint of him or how if it lacked any man to haue beene baptized of them or to haue receiued the communion of them or haue ioyned them selues in faith and religion vnto them How might I say that coâ—temptible and vnknowne companie haâ— beene found out in this case If therefoâ— you can shewe me that euer anie man sougâ— iustice or knowledge of truth sacramentâ— faith or anie helpe of saluation at the Proâ—stants secret and close Church or anie othâ— where else but of Gods knowne Catholâ— Church And I recant Aunsweare 6. TOuching Sacramentes we finâ— two appoynted expresly by the worâ— of God namely Baptisme and the Lorâ— Supper The one doeth signifie our neâ— birth and regeneration that as by watâ— the filthe of the body is washed cleane through faith in the bloud of Christ oâ— soules are clensed from all sinne and wâ— are incorporat and ingraffed into the bâ— of Christ and made members of his boâ— of which he is the onely head the other doâ— put vs in remembraunce that Christ Iâ—sus is our spiritual foode and sustenaunâ— that he is the celestial Manna which came downe from Heauen and