After the sinnes of man be pardoned God oftentimes punisheth the offender the church punisheth him and man punisheth him selfe ergo there is some payne due after sinne be remitted Secondly this payne can not alwayes be discharged in this world eyther for lacke of space after the remission as it happeth in repentaunce at the houre of death or else when the party liueth in perpetuall welth without care or cogitation of any satisfaction therefore it must be aunswered in an other place Thirdly the common infirmities and the dayly trespasses which abase and defile the workes euen of the vertuous of their proper condition doe deserue payne for a tyme as the mortall offence deserueth perpetuall Therefore as the mortall sinne being not here pardoned must of iustice haue the reward of euerlasting punishment so it must needes followe that the veniall fault not here forgeuen should haue the reward which of nature it requireth that is to say temporall payne And therefore not onely the wicked but the very iust also must trauell to haue their daily infirmities and frailty of their corrupt natures forgiuen crying without ceasing forgeue vs our debts Quia non iustificabitur in conspectu tuo omnis viuens For no man aliue shal be able to stand before the face of God in his owne iustice or righteousnes and if these light sinnes should neuer be imputed then it were needelesse to cry for mercy or confesse debt as euery man doth be he neuer so passing holy To be briefe this debt of paine for sinne by any way remayning at the departure hence must of iustice be aunswered VVhich can not be without punishmēt in the next life then there must be a place of iudgement for temporall and transitory paynes in the other world The whole discourse made before hath geuen force enough to euery part of the argument the Scriptures doe proue it the practise of the Church confirmeth it all the doctors by our aduersaries graunt agree vpon it If they haue any thing to say here I make them fayre play the ground is open the reasons laide naked before their face remoue them as they can Lette them deale simply if they meane truely and not flourish as they vse vppon a false ground that in flowe of wordes they may couer errour or in rase of their smoth talke ouerrunne truth And that euery man may perceiue that we haue not raised this doctrine vpon reason only or curiositie although the graue authoritie of Gods Church might here in satisfie sober wittes we will now by Gods helpe go nearer the matter and directly make proofe of Purgatory by holy Scriptures reciting such places of the olde and new Testament as shall proue our cause euen in that sense which the learnedst and godlyest fathers of all ages by conference of places or other likelyhood shall fynde and determine to be most true Alleaging none els but such as they haue in the flour of Christian faith noted and peculiarely construed for that purpose which now is in question That the aduersaries of that doctrine may rather striue with the said saincts and doctours then with me that will as they shall well perceiue do nothing but truely reporte their wordes or meaninge Or rather that such as haue erred in that case by giuing ouer light credit to the troblesome teachers of these vnhappy dayes maye when they shall vnderstand the true meaning of the Scriptures the constant doctrine of the Catholike Church the wordes of all auncient writers the determination of so many holy Councels the olde vsage of all nations by humble prayers obteine of God the light of vnderstanding the trueth and the gifte of obedience to his will and worde Or if there be any so sattled in this vnlickely sect that he purposeth not to beleue the graue writers of olde times nor receiue their expositions vpon such places as we shall recite for that preiudice which he hath of this owne witte and vnderstanding yet let him not maruell at my simplicity that had rather geue credit to others then my selfe Or that in this hote time of contention and partaking in religion I do repose my selfe vnder the shadow of so many worthy writers as anone shall giue euidence in my cause CAP. V. 1 TRiumphing before the victorie and that is more before the encontry of hāde strokes for we come to ioyning but now you will now win your spurs or els it shal be a blacke daye with all Protestantes I will be as shorte in mine aunswere as you are in your arguments And that I may put on an armour of proofe to beare of your terrible haileshot your first argumēt hath neither good forme nor matter no more hath your second no more hath your third If you or any for you will prepare your selfe to geue a bitter charge either I or some other shal be redy to shape you an other aunswere But because here is nothing in this briefe ioyning but which hath bene largly discharged before in aunswere to your longe excursions it were nedelesse to make such vaine repetition as you doe especially in your last shorte argument in which space all the substaunce of your large booke might easily haue bene placed only to fil vp a competent length of the fift chapter and with such a tedious inlarging of a superfluous matter as a yong practiser of Rhetoricke would be ashamed to vse in a fayned declamation much worse becomming an auncient master of arte professing to trusse vp his arguments by Logicke to make a perfect perswasion As for the promisse of further proofe both out of the Scriptures and out of the doctors that followeth after this gallant ioyning and lusty challenge shall haue no preiudice of my disabling of the meane to perform it vntill it appeare by playne conference of his arguments and myne aunswers that his words are but winde and his promisse but pratling That Purgatory paines doth not onely serue Gods iustice for the punishement of sinne but also cleanse and qualifie the soule of man defiled for the more seemely entraunce into the holy places vvith conferēce of certaine places of Scripture for that purpose CAP. VI. 1 IF we well cōsider the wonderfull base condition and state of mans nature corrupted by our first fathers disobedience and more and more abased by continuall misery that sinne hath brought into our mortall life we shall finde the worke of Gods wisedome in the excellent repaire of this his creature to be full of mercy and full of maruell But proceding somewhat further and weying not onely his restoring but also the passing great anauncement to the vnspeakable glory of the elect there shall reason and all our cogitations vtterly faint and faile vs. The kingdome prepared is honored with the maiestie of the glorious Trinitie with the humanitie of Christ our Sauiour with the blessed Mary the vessell of his Incarnation with the bewtifull creatures and wholy vndefiled of all the ordres of Angels There can nothing doubtlesse
whome the papistes counte no parte of their church but schismatikes conuerted the Moscouites first of all vnto the profession of the name of Christ which yet continue in their religion being neither the true faith nor yet popish religion As for the popish church as it is certeine that it hath peruerted and corrupted all partes of the Latine or Westerne Church with Idolatry and false religion so it shal be harde for the papistes to proue that it hath conuerted any Nation from Gentility to the popish religion except some partes of Germanie and them by force of armes rather than by preaching and reaching as appeareth by the conuersion of Liuonia Anno Domini 1200. of Prussia Anno Domini 1254. and of Lithuania Anno Domini 1386. wherefore I conclude that seeing I haue shewed that our Church holding the true doctrine of the Apostles is that which conuerted all nations to true religion and that the popish church hath not conuerted any people to true religion nor all people to the profession of the name of Christ this chalenger whosoeuer he be do the recant The second article conteyneth 4. demandes 1 I aske of him what Church it was which hath induced the Christian people through the whole worlde to geue most humble credit in all points to the holy bookes of the Byble I Aunswere it was the Church of Christ and not the Popish church which hath commended the bookes of holy Scripture to be beleued of all true Christians where soeuer they be although it be the office of the holy Ghost to open the hartes of men and to forme them that they may beleue the scripture to be true like as it is the office of the scripture or worde of God to trie and examine whether it be the spirite of God that perswadeth vs to beleue any thing so the spirite beareth witnesse to the worde and the worde to the spirite As for the popish church it coulde not induce the Christian people to geue credit to the scripture in all pointes because she is contrarie to the scripture in many pointes and euen in the cheefest pointes of Christian Religion namely in pointes concerning the glorie of God and the saluation of mankinde geuing the glory of God to dead men and dumbe Images and denying the mercy of God pourchased by the onely sacrifice of Christes death to be the onely cause of mans saluation Finally seeing it is manifest by the aunswere to the first article that the popish church did not conuerte all nations to the profession of the Christian faith it is euident thereby that the popish church did not induce all them that are called Christians to geue credit to the bookes of the holy Bible as this chalenger woulde haue it to be thought 2 VVhat Church hath had the discerning seuering of them from other writinges of all sortes THe Church of Christ hath not an absolute authority to allow or refuse bookes of the scripture but a iudgment to discerne true writinge from counterfaicts the word of God of infallible verity from the writing of men which might erre this iudgement she hath not of her selfe but of the holy Ghost as for the popish Church it can not be said to haue this iudgemēt of discerning the scripture of God from other writings not only because she is so blind that she can not discerne betwene the Canonical bookes of the scripture from the Apocrypha writings as appereth by receauing the bookes of the Machabees Ecclesiasticus c. to be of equall authoritie with the bookes of the Law Psalmes c. but also because she is so presumptuous as to compel men to beleue that Customes and traditions writinges of doctors decrees of Popes and Councells are equall with the authoritie of God his worde yea are of force to alter and change the lawe of God and the institution of Christ set forth vnto vs in the scripture And although she boast that she receaueth all the bookes of scripture yet this proueth no more that she is the Church of Christ than was the churches of the Arrians Donatistes Nouatians Euthychans other heretikes which receiued the Bible as well as the Popish church 3 VVhat Church hath had the custodie of them and most safely hath preserued them for the necessary vse of God his people and from the corruption of aduersaries as well of Iewes as heretikes of all sortes THe prouidence of God hath alwayes preserued the Scripture both from the violence of tyrants from the falshoode of heretikes and hath neuer suffred the true Church to be destitute of the necessarie vse thereof But the popish church hath not kept the scripture for the necessary vse of the people which hath so kept it in an vnknowen tongue that the people coulde haue no vse much lesse the necessary vse thereof wherefore if this be a note of the Catholike Church to kepe the worde of God for the necessarie vse of God his people it is plaine that the popish church is not the Catholike Church which hath kept the scripture so that God his people coulde haue no vse thereof And if the only custodie of the scripture from corruption of heretikes be a sure note of the Church why is not the Greeke Church the Catholike Church which vnto this day hath kept the scripture as safely as the popish church why are not other Estern Churches of Asia which neuer acknowledged the Pope or popish religion true Churches which likewise haue preserued the scripture as we haue seen of late that the newe Testament is printed in the Syrian tongue at themperours charges for the encrease of Christian faith among them And finally why are not the Iewes the Catholike Church which haue kept the old Testament in Hebrue more faithfully than euer the Papistes And because they boast of safe preseruing of the scriptures all men that are learned in the tongues can testifie in how corrupt a Latin translation they haue kept the scriptures both of the olde and of the new Testament 4 And let the Protestant declare to me that their Congregation hath had from time to time or euer had right herein or any other Church sauing the Catholike Church and I recant OVr Congregation which is the body of Christ hath euer had both right and possession of the inestimable treasure of the word of Christ her heade as appeareth by this that our Church and Congregation beleueth nothing but that she learneth in it acknowledgeth that all thinges profitable to saluation are sufficiently conteined in it and finally in all thinges submitteth her selfe to the iudgemēt of it But the popish church which beleueth many thinges contrarie to the scripture teacheth many thinges beside the scripture necessary to saluation and refuseth to haue her faith doctrine and ceremonies to be iudged by the scripture neither hath neither euer had any right to the scripture though she haue neuer so many bookes of them in possession Wherefore these thinges considered this chalenger
doth recant The third article conteyneth 5. demandes 1 Shew me why our common knowen Church did not as well corrupt the text of the Testament as the true religion conteyned in the same THere may be diuers good reasons shewed why your Church commonly knowen to be the church of Antichrist did not as well corrupt the text of the Testament as the true religion conteined therein First because she coulde not the copies thereof being so many by the prouidence of God dispersed throughout the worlde Secondly because she thought it not so needefull hauing other meanes to worke her deuilish deuise For although she coulde not corrupt the scripture yet it made the lesse matter because she founde meanes to diminish and controll the authority therof by aduancing decrees of men Popes and Councells to be equall or of greater authoritie than the scripture Thirdly because she woulde be lesse in feare to be reproued by the scripture she prouided that the knowledge thereof shoulde be hidden from the vnlearned people by a strange tongue and from the learned by the tedious mazes of questions deuised by her Canonistes and Sententiaries Fourthly because she submitted all interpretation of the scripture to her owne iudgement and therefore woulde not be controlled by the iudgement thereof but woulde alwayes expound it as it liked her best As appeareth by Ockam and Duns who though they confesse that transubstantiation seemeth to them contrary to the scripture and reason yet they beleued it because of the authoritie of the church and for none other cause These are the reasons why the Romish church did not as well corrupt the text of the Testamēt as the true Religion And yet how corrupt that Latine translation is which they woulde needes thrust vpō vs is sufficiently knowen to all learned men euen in such texts as are the most coulerable places for the defence of Popish doctrine I will geue one example for all They alleage the text 1. Cor. 10. Qui stat videat ne cadat He that standeth let him take heede he fall not against the certainetie of faith whereas the Greeke hath not he that standeth but he that thinketh he standeth let him take heede he fall not Thus the popish church cannot altogether excuse her selfe from corrupting of the text of the Testament whether it was of fraude or of ignorance or of negligence the Lorde knoweth 2 Shew me why she kept not so safely and faithfully the true sense of God his word as she preserued the word it selfe BEcause it was against her owne estimation and profit which are the chiefe endes for which popish Prelates mainteyne popish religion Take away the Popes prerogatiue which is contrary to the sense of God his word downe goe Cardinalls Legates Prothonotaries downe goeth all the Court of Rome take away workes of supererogation which are contrary to the Scripture downe goe Abbeys Priories and Chantries Take away the sacrifice of the Masse Purgatory which are contrary to the word of God downe goeth the estimation and gaynes of all the popish clergie And this is the cause why the popish church kept not so safely and faithfully the true sense of God his word as she preserued the word it selfe although she preserued not the word it self in such safetie as becommed the Church of Christ. 3 Shew me why we should beleue the Papistes as you terme them for the word it self and rather you Protestants thā them for the meaning of the word WE doe not chalenge credit to our selues in any poynt so presumptuously as the Papistes that men must beleue it because we affirme it But because we proue it to be true by the worde of god And therefore for the meaning of the word you should beleue vs rather than them because our groundes proues are better then theirs or else we require not to be beleued better than they 4 Shew me why you beleued our Church telling you this to be God his booke will not credit her auouching this to be the true and vndoubted sense of the same booke IF we had no better ground to perswade vs of the authoritie of God his booke than the testimony of your Church you may be sure we would not beleue it But because we haue most stedfast assurance of God his spirite for the authority of that booke with the testimony of the true Church in all ages If you say it is God his booke we beleue you not because you say so but because we know it to be true But if you bring out a false sense we beleue you not because we know it to be false are able to proue by the word of God that it is contrary to the meaning of the holy Ghost To be plaine with you we geue as much credit to your Church as to the deuill When the deuill sayth it is written He shall giue his angells charge ouer thee and with their handes they shall hold thee vp that thou dash not thy foote against a stone We beleue that this is the worde of god But when he auoucheth this to be the meaning of it that we may cast downe our selues from a Church steeple without daunger we doe not beleue him because we know this sense is contrary to an other Scripture which sayth Thou shalt not tempt the Lord thy God. So when you say these wordes are the Scripture of God This is my body We beleue it because we knowe it to be true But when you say this is the meaning of these wordes This bread is turned into my naturall bodye we beleue you not because it is contrary to all places of Scripture which proue the trueth of Christ his humanitie or naturall body Thus I shewe you why we beleue you if you say the Scripture is God his word namely because we know it to be true why we beleue you not saying this is the meaning of it that is because we knowe by the word of God that it is false 5 Last of all Shew me why you beleued the olde known church affirming this to be the word of God and will not beleue her affirming Luther to be an heretike shew me good reason or Scripture for these thinges and I recant IF you meane by the olde Church the primitiue Church whose testimony of the word of God we allow beleue I deny that the primitiue Church did affirme Luther to be an heretike or the doctrine that he taught which we hold to be heresie but I am able to proue that the primitiue Church from which you haue receiued the Scripture affirmeth your doctrine to be heresie your Church the Church of Antichrist But if by the old knowne Church you meane the Church of old knowne to be the Church of Antichrist which is the popish church we beleue the deuill if he speake the trueth and we beleue not an Angell comming from heauen if he bring any other Gospel than S. Paule deliuered to the Galathians Therefore when your
without any further satisfaction he is to be receiued againe as appereth most manifestly in the receiuing of that Corinthian which was excommunicated of whose vnfeined repentaunce when the Apostle had intelligence he writeth againe to the Corinthians of him saying It is sufficient for that same man that he was rebuked of many but now you ought to forgeue him and comforte him that he should not be swallowed vp with ouer much heuines 2. Cor. 2. And as for the practise of the olde and puerer Church by enioyning of workes of repentaunce was that they might not be deceiued by conterfect repentaunce in stead of true and earnest reformation not to satisfie the wrath of God against sinners which is not satisfied but by the bloude of Christ but to satisfie and assure the Church as much as man might iudge of the vnfeined and hartie repentaunce of the offendour For how so euer the olde writers vse the worde of satisfaction somethinge vnproprely yet their cleare affirmation of the onely satisfaction of Christes death declareth what they vnderstoode when they vsed that terme in an other sense But this is not to be omitted that M. Allen confesseth the Papistes to haue left the olde vsage of the Church which was first to set satisfactiō and then to absolue and now of late to haue taken vp a contrary custome that is first to absolue then to enioyne penaunce This practise therefore lacketh antiquitie one of the chiefe pillers of Popery But this he sayeth is for great causes but what causes he doth not expresse it is sufficient that the Church can not erre though they doe that which is contrary to the vsage of the auncient Church without grounde of Scripture and against the commaundement of Christ. How harde Cyprian was to absolue them that were excommunicate before they had shewed great fruites of repentaunce and how carefull that the Church should not be deceiued by them that vpō counterfected penaūce required absolution appereth by many of his epistles in his Sermon De lapsis But because we shall haue a more proper place to speake of satisfaction in the next Chapter we will now follow M. Allen in this matter of excōmunicatiō 2 This punishment was euer by cutting of from the Christian societie and often ioyned with torment of body or sicknesse And sometimes with death As in the excommunication of Ananias and Zaphiras VVhich Christes vicar S. Peter to the great terrour euen of the faithfull grauely pronounced on them for retaining backe certaine Church goods which by promesse they had before dedicated vnto God the Apostles distributiō This kinde of punishment of sinnes was euer counted so terrible that we finde it called of the olde fathers damnation as one that most resembles the paines of the worlde to come of all other And if man coulde see with corporall eyes the miserie of the party so condemned in Gods church his hearte woulde brast and it woulde moue terrour of further damnation euen to the stubborne contemners of the Churches authoritie The which censure of Gods priestes though it was sometimes to the euerlasting woe of such offenders as neglected the benefite of that present paine yet commonly it was but chastisement and louing correction of our deare mother for their deliuerie from greater griefe in the life to come 2 He sayth that excōmunication was oftentimes ioyned with torment of bodie and sickenesse and sometimes with death Of torment and sickenesse he bringeth no proofe but of death in Ananias and Saphira But where findeth he that they were excommunicated I finde that they were punished with death for their hypocrisie and dissimulation but there is no worde nor halfe worde of their excommunication and whereas you saye it was for reteining backe of certaine Church goods S. Peter sayth it was for lying and tempting the holy Ghost And those Church goods were not for vaine ostentation of golden copes chalices or such like superstitious vanities but for the necessarie reliefe of the poore Againe I know in what sense you call S. Peter Christes vicar well if the Pope be in the same office Peter was why doth he not likewise punish those whome he taketh to be Church robbers if he lacke the power as I am sure he lacketh not the will then hath he not the authoritie Peter had And if Peter did this as Christes vicar then is not he Christes vicar that can not doe as Peter did 3 And for this cause as the example of all ages past may sufficiently proue were certeine times and ordinary termes of penaunce apointed for iust satisfaction for euery offense and by the holy Canons so limited that no sinne wittingly might be reserued to Gods heauy reuenge in the ende of our short dayes It were to long to reporte the rules and prescription of penaunce out of Nice Councell or Ancyre or out of S. Cyprian for their punishmēt that fell to Idolatry in the time of Decius and Diocletianus or out of Ambrose the notable excommunication of Theodosius the Emperour By all which and the like in the histories of the Ecclesiasticall affaires he that can not see what paine is due vnto sinne euen after the remission thereof I holde him both ignorant and malicious blinde 3 That certeine times and ordinary termes were appointed in which they that grieuousely offended shoulde shew their repentaunce the same was not for satisfaction for their sinnes but for certaine demonstration of their repētaunce which thing appereth euen by the same canons of the Councels which you alledge For when godly discipline beganne to decaie whereof Cyprian complaineth often in his epistles men that notoriously offended would sometime by thretning and terrors sometime by refusing the censure of that church by whome they were condemned sometime by flattering the constant Martyrs and so deceiuing them that they would become suters for them at whose request the Church many times was intreated would seeke to thrust them selues againe into the communion of the faithfull before they had shewed sufficient tokens of sorrow for so greuous faltes of which enormyties Cyprian much complaineth as one that was much trobled with thē as Lib. 1. Epist. 3. Lib. 3. Epist. 15. For remedy of which enormities and for auoiding of all subtill practises to restore discipline to the auncient seuerity decrees were made by the aunciēt Councels in which certaine times of triall were appointed for offenders to approue their repentaunce with regarde of the heynousnesse of their crymes but yet with such moderation that they might be receiued before the time appointed if they shewed sufficient fruites of repentaunce as appereth most plainely in the 11. Canon of the Nicone Councell where it is said Ab omnibus vero illud praecipuè obseruetur vt animus corum fructus poenitentiae attendatur c. Let this be chiefely considered of all that are excommunicated that there minde and fruictes of repentaunce be considered for they that with all feare continuall teares
that for feare or worldly respectes denied their faith and offered to idols who afterward the storme of tyrannie somewhat being caulmed confessed their faulte and did penaunce for the same by S. Cyprian other good byshops prescriptioÌ„ that then ruled the Church of those dayes By whom after due satisfaction made they were admitted to the communion of the Christian company receite of the holy Sacraments againe But all pastours not of like mercy of seuerity in the case some were suspended from the vse of the Sacraments longer and othersome by more clemency with speede pardoned againe Now S. Cyprian though he were very seuere in such a cause as in all his workes it doth well appeare yet he was blamed by Antonianus others that he dealte ouer mekely with such as denied their faith in so speedy admission of them to the peace of Gods church as they then termed that reconciliation alleaging that if such wordely wind wauerers might be admitted so soone after the open deniall of their faith then there woulde none stedfastly stande to death by confession of their belefe and their maisters name any more the refusers being in as good case as they if pardon might so soone be procured But S. Cyprians aunswere is this that their admission can not withdrawe any mans zele from martyrdom or confession of Christes name seeing their reconciliation doth not set them on so cleare bord as martyrs be VVho being tried by their bloud shal straight receiue the crowne of glory VVhen the others standing but vpon pardon of their sinnes and not discharged of due paines for the same must into prison notwithstanding till they haue paide their vttermost duety and by longe amending by fire at the last come to that reward which the martyrs atteined by sufferance at the first And thus I thinke this holy Martyr meaneth His wordes surely be singular and being well vnderstande they conteine as much matter for our purpose as can be possibly in so litle roume besides the exposition of the texte wherein we yet do stande But I will adde more that all may be saâ—fe on euery side 3 The place of Cyprian hath more couller but yet not so cleere for purgatory as M. Allen would seem to make it For first it is plaine by the wordes both going before and following after that he speaketh of adulterers that are pardoned in the Church of whome some bishoppes that were Cyprian his predecessours had so harde a iudgement that they did vtterly seclude them from reconciliation and allowed them no place of repentaunce but Cyprian was not of that vnreasonable seueritie for his Church did receiue them although they compted them not equall with martyrs or continent persons For it is one thing to be admitted by pardon as adulterers are but yet with some note of ignominie an other to come to glory as martyrs and continent persones doe It is one thing by denying of reconciliation to adulterers in this life to driue them to that prison from whence they shall not come till they haue payed the vttermost farthing an other thing to compt them vnreconciled like them that immediatly receiue the reward of there faith and vertue It is one thing for a man after he hath bene longe time vexed with sorowe for his sinnes to be reformed as one that hath bene long purged in the fire an other thing by suffering persecution to haue purged all his sinnes Finally it is one thing to hange vpon the sentence of God in the daye of iudgement as they seeme to do which being penitent for their heynous sinnes yet are not absolued from them by the Church An other thing to be assured of their crowne which haue striued lawfully And this I take to be the simple meaning of Cyprians words agreeing with the circumstaunce of the place But if they were otherwise ment by him surely they can not but with carte ropes be drawene to the Popes purgatory For those that stande by pardon he excludeth from glory and those that are reformed by sorrow and purged by fire he suspendeth vntill the last daye and then maketh them vncertaine of the sentence also which can not stande with the Papistes opinion of purgatory no more then that which he writeth in his treatise against Demetrianus towarde the ende Quando isthinc excessum suerit nullus iam locus poenitentiae est nullus satisfactionis effectus Hic vita aut amittitur aut tenetur c. When men are gone hence there is no place of repentaunce no effect of satisfaction while we are here life is either lost or helde And exhorting Demetrianus him selfe to repentaunce which had bene a wicked man and a persecutor of the Christians he sayth to him Tu sub ipso licet exitu vitae temporalis occasu pro dilictis roges Deum qui vnus verus est confessionem fidem agnitionis eius implores venia confitenti datur credenti indulgentia salutaris de diuina pietate conceditur ad immortalitatem sub ipsa morte transitur If thou although it but a litle before the ende and decay of this temporall life shall pray to God for thy sinnes which is the onely true God If thou desire confession and faith of his knowledge pardon is giuen to him that confesseth and holsome forgeuenes of the goodnes of God is graunted to him that beleueth and euen from the howre of death he passeth into immortalitie By this appeareth what Cyprian his iudgement was of purgatory and the effect of satisfaction after this life 4 Eusebius Emissenus an author of great antiquity and much credit in the Church of God helpeth our cause by this notable discourse following Hi vero qui temporalibus poenis digna gesserunt ad quos sermo dei dirigitur quod non exient inde donec reddant nouissimum quadraÌ„tem per fluuium igneum de quo propheticus sermo commemorat fluuius rapidus currebat ante cum per vada feruentibus globis horrenda transibunt Quanta fuerit peccati materia tanta erit pertranseundi mora quantum accreuerit culpa tantum sibi ex homine vindicabit flaÌ„mae rationabilis disciplina quaÌ„tum stulta iniquitas gessit tantum sapiens poena deseuiet Et quia sermo diuinus quodammodo aeneae ollae animam comparans Pone ollam super prunas vacuam donec incalescat aes eius illic periuria irae malitiae cupiditates quae puritatem nobilis naturae infecerant exudabunt illic stannum vel plumbum diuersarum passionum quae aurum diuinae imaginis adulterauerant consumentur Quae omnia hic ab anima separati per eleemosynas lachrymas compendij transactione poteraÌ„t Ecce sic exigere habet ab homine rationem qui seipsum pro homine dedit confixus clauis legem mortis fixit Thus it is in our tongue As for all such vnto whome for their offenses our Lordes word is especially directed that they shall not come
or daunger or to shew their sorrow for prophanation of Gods glory And any of these are more reasonable causes then the superstitious surmise of Beda with his curious conceit of the six ages of the worlde where other make seuen and eight ages 3 And that charitable reliefe of the poore by open almes and doles was also practised for the welth of the departed in the obittes of olde time the scripture it selfe in the fourth chapter of Tobie maketh mention by report of that godly commaundemeÌ„t that the good olde father gaue is sonne herein Panem tuum cum esurientibus comede de vestimeÌ„â—is tuis nudos tege Panem tuum vinum tuum super sepulturam iusti constitue noli ex eo manducare bibere cum peccatoribus Eate thy breade with the hongry and needy and couer with thy clothes the naked Set thy breade and wine vpon the sepulture of the vertuous make not the sinnefull partaker therof which wordes of exhortation can haue no other sense but that as before in the same place he gaue his sonne in charge to bestow vppon all men according to his hability for that there was hope to all charitable almes giuers of Gods mercy so now he warneth him to feede the poore and breake his breade to such especially as should come to the iustes and funeralls of the departed He would neuer haue put him in minde to haue releeued the poore at burialls but for some commodity that might arise to the party deceased for otheâ—wise his charity might haue proffeted the needy at other times as well as vpon mens departure Some tooke foolish occasioÌ„ by this place to set store of meate vpon the graue it selfe where their father or freinde was buried as though the dead had bene desirous of corporall foode The which superstitious error S. Augustine earnestly improueth Other some made great feastes at the daye of their freindes death But the texte is plaine it was the needy and good people that were at those soleÌ„ne exequies or other wise by their prayers might be profitably present in the dayes of memories holden for them which practise was not prescribed as a newe thing to the yong Tobie but it was moued and praised vnto him as a holy vsage of other burialls in those dayes and alwayes before Bona est oratio cum ieiunio elecmosina Prayer is profitable sayth the holy Raphel when it is ioyned with fasting and almes and therefore as the fathers in their prayers for the dead fasted as we haue proued so nowe I doubt not but almes shall crie for mercy at Gods hande for the soule departed vpon whose sepulture these thinges be charitably wroght 3 What else if we had not doles at burialls proued by the example of the Patriarkes all were marred Therefore Tobias must saye for doles But first we haue shewed already by authoritie of Hieronym which is proofe sufficient against the Papist that the Church receiueth not this booke of Tobias for canonicall scripture And secondly if we shoulde receiue it yet here is nothing that helpeth M. Allens cause but his owne simple surmise He sayth in dede the wordes can haue no other sence yet all that he sayeth is not gospell but what if the truer texte of Tobias hath other wordes First in the Greeke there is no mention at all of wine as is in the Latine nor of setting breade and wine vpon the graue of the vertuous but the sence is this As before he exhorted his sonne to feede the hongry with his owne breade and to cloth the naked with his owne garments so nowe he willeth him to spare the breade out of his owne mouth to bury the righteous as he him selfe had done chap. 1. which is a cleere interpretation of this but to geue nothing at all to the vngodly or to be liberall to the rightuous euen to their death and to see them buried honestly As for the iustes and funeralls M. Allen dreameth that the poore came vnto to receiue penny dole or soule breade appeareth in the first and second Chapters how solemne they were when poore Tobie was fayne to steale the bodyes and bury them priuily by night yet vpon that corrupt Latine texte as it should seeme wherevpon M. Allen buildeth they vsed in Affrica to make sumptuous and dronken feastes vpon the graues of men in the places of buriall which they thought not onely to perteine to the honor of the martyrs but also to be some comforte to the soules of the deade This olde superstition Augustine reproueth epist. 64. Aurelio But it is pretily renewed in the funerall feastes of the Papistes as also the selling of oblations for the deade which he in the same place condemneth 4 VVe haue a notable example in the Actes of the Apostles of the force of almes with prayers which wroght life and procured mercy eueÌ„ in the next world For the benefit of faithfull workes and holy prayers will not be limited by the termes of this worlde it will haue course doune so farre as the fellowship of this Christian societie reacheth the deuill and all his abettours can not stoppe the rase thereof The onely shew of certaine cotes with the requeste of the pore widowes that wore them made to Peter the Apostle turned Tabitha to life againe after her departure those garments geuen by her when she was a lieue by the careful trauel of her almes folkes procured reliefe in the worlde to come They warmed the backes of widowes in earth sayth Emissenus and the geuer had comforth of them being gone from the earth It is good we shoulde all learne here that haue receiued benefite of any man in this liefe with loue and carefullnesse not onely in this present worlde but most of all when our frend is departed to represent vnto God before his altare and holy ministers with sorowfull weeping hearty prayer the memory of such thinges as we haue receiued by way of almes or loue at his hand It shall be a soueraigne remedy for his infirmities and the approuedst way to procure Gods mercy that can be The elders of the Iewes making earnest supplication to our Sauiour for the Centurions seruaunt lying in extremitie vsed the memorie of that gentilmans charitable actes in their church as the rediest waye to obteine grace and fauour at his handes They cried out together dignus est vt hoc illi praestes diligit enim gentem nostram synagogam ipse aedificauit nobis Lorde be gratious vnto him he is worthy that benefite for he loueth our nation and hath him selfe founded a Synagoge And S Cyprian sayth notably that good workes make a more effectuall intercession then good wordes he speaketh of the same Tabitha as followeth Circumsteterunt Petrum viduae flentes rogantes pallia tunicas omnia illa quae prius sumpserant indumenta monstrantes nec pro defuncta suis vocibus sed ipsius operibus
membres of our common body and howe being practised by one it serueth before God for an other either in this life or the next our holy father Athanasius by his authoritie might well be a proofe sufficient but he is content to declare it vnto vs by an example and such an example that beside the matter may further put vs in remembraunce of the deuotion of our elders in an other point which the studious reader may marke by the waye thus then he sayth Quod in pauperes collocatur beneficiuÌ„ omnis bonae retributionis est augmentum Itaque pro defuncto oblaturus eundem serues scopum quem qui pro paruulo filio adhuc imbecillo infante interim dum puer aegrotat affert ceram oleum thimiama in templum Domini magna fide acceÌ„dit pueri nomine neque enim puer hoc faceret cum ignoret diuinae regenerationis constitutiones Sic cogitet etiam eum qui in domino morteÌ„ obijt posse offerre ceram oleum caetera quae in redemptioneÌ„ offerri soleÌ„t The benefit bestowed vpon the poore is a soueraigne ground of Gods rewarding And in thy oblations for the departed haue alwaies the same inteÌ„t scope that a father hath practising for the recouery of his sicke child being yong tender VVho for his sick son bringeth into the Church of our Lord God waxe oyle incense and with deuotion and faith lighteth them in the boyes behalfe for that the child him selfe being wholy vnskillful â—f the ordinauncies of our Christianity would neuer go about any such thinge euen so must a man thinke of the deceased persons case that he may doth offer as in an other maÌ„s person waxe oyle such like as coÌ„monly for redeÌ„ptioÌ„ are offered VVith proofe of our matter in hande here may be noted beside the vsuall oblation of thinges apperteining to the mainteinaunce of Church light and lampes setting vp of tapers of singular deuotion for sicke persons representing of our goods and Gods creatures from prophane vse of daily occupation to Gods honour in the temple the vndoubted hope that all faythfull people had as well to procure fauour to them selues thereby as mercy to other for whose sakes they did it and especially that in this mans age that was so auncient these tokens of loue and duety towardes our Lorde and shew of their homage by such externall actes were taken as peculiar ordinauncies and solemne constitutions of our Christianitie These thinges though the hedge of my cause forceth me to let them lightly passe yet as I go by I must needes beholde as steppes of olde maners with some mourning to say the trueth and no litle sorow in the contrary comparing of our corrupte conditions The reader as he list may perchaunce with more leasure or at leaste with lesse iniury to other weye the wonderfull waste that sinne and heresie hath wrought in our dayes of darknesse And wheÌ„ he considereth these thinges that be now of most men counted meere madnesse to haue bene liked allowed preached auouched sent out in solemne workes and writings to the vewe of the world and the sight of all posterity from the very heart spring of the ChristiaÌ„ Church by Athanasius the great O Lord what a mighty man in worde and worke do I nowe name him do I name whose memory is blessed in Gods Church in whose lappe our weeryed mother once before as she hath bene often in a maner learned to take her rest from the forsaken children whose only worde with out all proofe though he neuer speaketh but with weight of reason woulde beare ouer all these pety Protestantes put together so said Tully comparing the Epicures with Plato and Aristotle much more bouldly may I payse all heretiques in the worlde with this mans onely worde Him therefore such a man and so great a pillor of faith when the Catholike shall see proue and allow and practise those same thinges which our maisters of sectes can not abide but most abhorre and by him take a sure taste of his whole time shal he not wounder with all wise men at our downefall so deepe shall he not meruaile vnder one name of Christianitie that goeth yet common to our dayes with those happy times past to be such diuersitie of case and conditions that the one vnder so glorious a name must be nothing else but a cloked paganisme but yet I woulde not he shoulde occupie ouermuch his minde in this consideration till he see the whole ranke of Gods holy host and all the blessed bande of Martyrs and Sainctes stande with vs for the full defense of trueth and the common Church their mother and ours 4 The laste parte of this Chapter hath a boysterous bragge of two great doctors authorities Gregory Nyssene Athanasius the great but they stande both vppon either the credit or iudgement of Damascene neither of which we esteeme so much that we neede greatly regarde them Counterfecting was so common in those dayes and before them to maintaine such errors as coulde not be proued by scripture For to passe ouer that which Tertullian writeth in his booke de Baptismo of the priest of Asia which was conuicted to haue fayned certaine writings of S. Paule to Tecta was not the Nycene Councel the first and the best corrupted with counterfect canons by the Byshoppes of Rome to maintaine their vsurped authoritie in the dayes of S. Augustine which was plainely espied and confuted in the Councell of Carthago 6. cap. 4. 7. And in the Africane Councell were there not three faulse quaternions founde added to the 5. Councell of Constantinople which was espied in the 6. Councell of Constantinople Act. 3. 12. If men woulde be so bolde with generall Councells thinke you that they woulde be afrayde of Gregorius or Athanasius writings And what maner of a Sermon of Athanasius was that which was reade in the 4. action of the 2. Nicene Councell Of the image of Christ and the miracle done in Berytus that when a Iewe strake the image there issued out water and bloude what a shamelesse lye is that which Pope Adrian in his epistle writeth that CoÌ„stantine was clensed of a leprosie and baptised of Syluester at Rome contrary to the Historie of Eusebius who liued in Constantines time and knew him what faulsyfying of authorities is there to proue the worshipping of images out of Gregorie Nissene Basilius Magnus Athanasius and Ambrosius Chrysostome Cyrill and Hieronym with diuerse other in that leude Councell wherfore except you coulde alleage their sayings out of their owne workes I will neuer trouble my selfe to aunswere them although if they were there true authorities there is no cause why we shoulde beleeue either of them both in an article of faith with out the authoritie of the word of god Their time had diuerse errors superstitious ceremonies which they being occupied in fighting against greater heresies that then sprang vp of the Arians Macedonians
mainteined perhaps by occasion of such vnproper speach as then was vsed of the sacrifice of the Masse and propitiation both of the quicke and the deade But that I may consider these places particularly whereof you make so great accompt First where you will vs to take our aduantage of your translation I say you haue falsyfied Augustines wordes and meaning in the latter ende of the first sentence to make fooles beleue that the priuate Masse was sayd in Augustines dayes as it is among you First you call memoriam sui fieri ad altare which is that remembraunce of her shoulde be made at the altar that a memory might be kepte for her as though she woulde haue her sonne to be a chauntry priest to sing for her c. Item you translate vnde sciret dispensari victimam sanctam where she knew the holy hoste was bestowed as though she had ment nothing but that the hoste was layed vpon the altar where as you should haue sayed from whence she knoweth the holy sacrifice was dispensed or ministred by which wordes it is manifest that the communion was daily receiued not of the priest alone but of all them that were present You are as bolde as one of your wisedome may be with such a man to will M. Grindall to looke in his grammer for Augustins figures but if I may be so bolde with so profound a clearke as you are I woulde desire you to looke in the etymologies of your grammer whether sui be for her and vnde where And if you can not proue these significations by that parte of grammer which is called Etymologie that you would defende them by that part of cunning where in you are better learned called Pseudologia but to the matter of this testimony we haue in this first remembraunce of her in the nexte we haue the sacrifice of our price offered for her In deede this soundeth more like the matter you would haue if S. Augustine had not before in plaine wordes expounded his meaning which is nothing else but that the communion was celebrated in ministration of which there was speciall remembraunce of her in the prayers as there was of all deade in the sayth a generall memory And if you aske me what figure S. Augustine vsed though I coulde referre it to diuerse figures yet it may best be excused by Acyrologia which is an vnproper kind of speaking to call that the sacrifice of our price which was but a thankes giuing for the sacrifice of our price which Christ onely offered once for all vpon the aultar of the crosse As Augustine him selfe when he speaketh properly will confesse The other two places proue nothing but prayer for the deade vsed by Augustine But that you may see all this was but superstition or will worship in him he him selfe in a maner confesseth as much in the same place where he prayeth most earnestly lib. Con. 9. cap. 13. Et credo quod iam feceris quod rogo sed voluntaria oris mei approba Domine And I beleeue that thou hast done already that which I pray for but Lord approue this voluntary offering of my mouth His meaning is to allude to the free will offerings of the lawe but in deede he declareth that he prayed not according to the rule appoynted by God but according to the corrupt motion of his owne minde As for the place of Possidonius proueth plainly that it was the sacrifice of thankes giuing that was offered for the commendation of the godly and quiet deposition or putting of of his body which he before describeth In steed of which M. Allen translateth for commendation of his rest as though he had bene out of rest sayth that not withstanding his holy life and godly departure yet euen that day the citie was taken had oblation for his rest But if the men of those dayes had bene of M. Allens opinion concerning purgatory they would not both haue compted Augustine for a perfect man and yet after his death to doubt of his rest Finally where he boasteth that none were saued in those dayes but in this fayth he followeth his owne vayne of lying and not any proofe of auncient writing For although they were in that tyme infected with some errours and that not so great as he chargeth them withall yet was the fayth of their saluation in the onely foundation Iesus Christ and not in merittes or Masses pardons or pilgrimage but in the onely mercy of god Tota spes mea sayth Augustine non nisi magna valdè misericordia tua Da quod iubes iube quod vis lib. con 10. cap. 29. Al my hope is nothing else but thy exceeding great mercy Giue that thou commaundest commaund what thou wilt That vve and all nations receyued this vsage of praying and sacrifycing for the departed at our first coÌ„uersioÌ„ to Christes faith And that this article vvas not onâ—ly conâ—irmed by miracle amongest the rest but seuerally by signes and vvounders approued by it selfe And that the Church is grovvne to such beauty by the fructes of this faith CAP. X. 1 MAny moe examples of these matters might be brought out of S. Gregory diuers out of Damascene enowe out of what writer so euer you like best such choise we haue in so good a cause whereof euery mans workes are full But I will passe ouer the rest that I may onely reporte one history out of our owne Church in the pure spring whereof the Apostolike faith aboundaÌ„tly ishued downe from the principall pastors of Gods Church with great spreade of religion which sith that time hath bewtified our country in all Gods giftes with the best And amongest many euident testimonies of this trueth with the practise therof both to be founde in Gildas and in holy Beda there is a straunge and a very rare example not onely for the plaine declaration of the vsage of our Church in the first foundation of our faith but for an open shew by miracle in this liefe how God releaseth of his mercye by the holy oblation at the altar the paines of the departed in the worlde to come It shall be comfortable to the Catholikes to consider this parte of our belefe to be confirmed by the miraculous working of God as all other lightly be in placies where the faith is first taught And that our whole faith which our nation receiued of S. Augustine the monke was so confirmed by the power of God not onely our owne histories do declare but S. Gregory him selfe affirmeth it writing his letters to Augustine in this sense that he should not arrogate any such wounderous workes to his owne power or vertue which then God wrought by him not for his owne holinesse but for the planting of Christes faith in the nation where those signes were shewde Beda therefore writeth this notable history of a miracle done not many yeares after our people was conuerted in the beginning of his owne dayes that in a
successions did euer chuse out for the warrant of their faith from amongest the reste the Roman Seate And now when there is no apostolike Church left in the whole worlde but it that they will seeke to Churchies whereof there is neither certainty nor succession when by plaine open dealing we may reduce and must needes referre our faith to that which was euer of all other most farre from falshoodde 3 Euery man in the primitiue Church compted the springe of his faith more pure if he coulde deriue it out of the holy Scriptures and shew the continuance thereof in any of the Apostolicke Churches whereof Rome was but one And condemned all heresies of nouelty or later string which coulde not bring the first author of their heresies eyther from any of the Apostles or apostolicke men which cōtinued in the doctrine of the Apostles as Tertullian doth in that booke De praescriptionibus aduersus haereses The like doth Irenaeus And that these men specially named the Church of Rome it was because the Church of Rome at that time as it was founded by the Apostles so it continued in the doctrine of the Apostles And these heretikes for the most parte had bene sometimes of the Church of Rome as Valentinus Marcion Nouatus But none of these fathers as M. Allen woulde haue it appeare was such a sclaue to the Church of Rome that what so euer pleased the Byshoppes of that Sea they were ready to accept For then woulde not Irenaeus so sharpely haue reproued Victor as Eusebius declareth of him Lib. 5. cap. 25. Cyprian woulde not haue taken vp Cornelius and Stephanus as appeareth by his epistles Hieronym woulde not haue bene so bolde to call Rome the purple whore of Babylon Praefat. ad Paulinū in lib. Didym Nor to compare the bishoppe of Eugubium with the bishop of Rome Euagrio nor to make the Church of England equall with the Church of Rome Nec iam altera Romanae vrbis ecclesia altera totius orbis existimanda est Et Gallia Britania Africa Bersis Oriens Indiae omnes barbarae nationes vnum Christum adorant vnam obseruant regulam veritatis Si authoritas quaeritur orbis maior est vrbe Neither must we thinke that there is one Church of the citye of Rome an other of all the worlde beside Both France and Britayne and Africa and Persia and the Easte and India and all barbarous nations worship one Christ keepe one rule of trueth If authoritie be sought the world is greater then one citye c. Loe Syr here is a Church and christianity and a rule of trueth with out the byshoppe of Rome with out the Church of Rome yea and contrary to the church of Rome For to them that alleged the custome of the church of Rome he sayth Quid mihi profers vnius vrbis cōsuetudinem what bring you me the custome of one citye and Augustine him selfe that knwe so well to fetch an heretike ouer the coles I trowe fetched Zosimus Bonifacius and Coelestinus byshoppes of Rome meetly well ouer the coles when he and his fellowes the byshoppes of Africa tooke them with plaine forgerie and falsification of the canons of the councell of Nice Consilio Milebitano Africano As for that which M. Allen compteth so strange is for lacke of skill and right iudgement For the same cause that moued those auncient fathers to appeale to the iudgment of the church of Rome moueth vs now to condemne the church of Rome of heresie wherefore did they reuerence the church of Rome Aske Tertullian he aunswereth because it had by succession reteined euen vntill his dayes that faith which it did first receiue of the Apostles Therefore it was a true Church therefore it was an apostolicke Church which because it doth not nowe neither hath done of many yeares and hath nothing to boast of but the empty names of many good bishops but thrise as many more of cursed Antichristes therefore it is nowe a false church and a company of heretikes departed from the auncient Romaines true and apostolicke faith 4 Bring my faith once to S. Gregory and the very streame shall driue me to S. Peter and Paule maugre all their beardes In which ordre of Byshops finde me one that set forth by decree any practise of contrary doctrine to that which his next predecessor did before him mainteine I will go seeke with the stray a newe mother Church to founde my faith vpon If all be in this succession salfe and sounde what a folly were it to forsake our owne mother and spring of our belefe to seeke other which haue often erred when they stoode and nowe be almost wholy decaide But yet it is wisedome for false teachers with all force to flie from so greate light as maye arise to the trueth by the recognising of that sounde succession and going the iuste contrary way from the olde doctors faith it is not to be thought straunge that they directly seeke to ouerthrowe that bulwarcke which they euer leaned vnto in the stormes of schisme and heresie The shrewes do knowe full well the might of trueth in that Seate and succession to haue beaten downe all their forefathers the heretikes of all agies They feare their fall whose steppes they follow They vtter much malice torment them selfe in euery sermon in vaine that Church feeleth no sore but in sorow of compassion towardes her forsakers she hath bidden greater stormes then this first by tyraunts then by heretikes last and most by the euill life of her owne Bishoppes In all which she yet standeth and euer riseth to honour as she is most impugned Their owne preaching hath singularly opened the might of God in the defense of that Seate of vnity VVhen they first beganne to touche and taunt the Pope in euery sermon in euery playe in booke and balate men that before liuing in faithfull simplicitie much medled not with his matters nor often hearde of his name beganne straight upon their busy ralinge to conceiue by reasonable discretion that there lay some greate grounde of matter and weight of trueth vpon that point which they coulde not digest in so many yeares bauling and barking at his name they saw the Pope euer in their way neuer out of their mouth and they doubted not but that singular hatred grew vpon some great importance and so admonished luckely by the aduersaries they sought the bottom of that perfecte and deepe hatered and found that it was the olde sore of the Arians and disease of the Donatistes and common to all heretikes they perceiued by S. Cyprian that the first attempte of such men was to driue awaye the pastor that they might with out resistance deuour and destroie the flocke And which was the pricke of all their endeuours to take from vs the acknowledging of the great and singular benefite of our conuersion to the faith that in stopping the heade of that condeth and plentifull well of our faith
arme our selues against the like aduersaires of trueth with his minde in such other points of weight as in his dayes were not doubted of which yet might fall in question by the contentious wittes of many that can not quiet them selues in the holsome doctrine of Christes Church Amongest other things what this holy mans minde was concerning the vtility vsage of prayers and sacrifice for the deade and who were the institutors thereof thou shall now heare I will recite but a parte of his heauenly talke though the whole make wholy for our purpose Although sayth this holy doctour he that Christianly is hense in faith departed be hanged in the ayer and his body vnburied yet after thy prayers made to God sticke not to light lampe and taper at his sepulchre for these thinges be not onely acceptable to God but are rewarded For the oyle and waxe be to him as an holocaust or a sacrifice to be consumed by fire but that vnbloudy hoste is a propitiation and remission to the partie It may seeme by his wordes that when by occasion of punishment or otherwise any person was vnburied yet there was made some hearse or monumēt where his freinds lighted tapers as they doe at this daye and procured the holy Masse which Athanasius calleth the Vnbloudy hoste or sacrifice to be celebrated in his behalfe for so I take that when he sayth that a man being hong in the ayer may haue tapers and Masse at his sepulchre though some seeke an other meaninge which may well stande too and it skilleth not for our purpose for so much is plaine that in Athanasius his dayes the sacrifice was called and counted propitiatory euen for the deade But nowe a litle afterwarde in the same oration he instruteth vs for the first authors and institutors of this vsage in the vnbloudy sacrifice and in the burialls of Christian men All these holy thinges sayth he the Apostles of Christ those heauenly preachers and scholars of our Lorde the first orderers of our sacrifice charged to be obserued in the memories and anniuersaires of the departed c. he calleth the Apostles Curatores Sacrificiorum as you woulde saye men appointed to take ordre for all thinges perteyning to the solemne ministerie of the greate and high misterie As in the Psalme the spirituall gouernours are named Ordinatores testamenti Dei super sacrificia The prouisours of Gods testament touching the sacrifices The residue of his holy wordes thou may finde in Damascens oration of the departed where he recyteth both the Gregories of the Greeke church S. Denyse and S. Chrysostom too which writers doe rather serue my turne nowe then the Latines because they may put vs out of doubt for the vsage of the Greeke and other Churches which afterwarde by schisme fell together from the true worshippe of God into diuers errors That we may knowe those same countries vnder the gouernment of these excellent blessed men to haue obserued the same things which to their owne eternall miserie and decaye of their Church and countries they afterwarde contemned For their dissension and diuision both in this point others of no lesse importaunce hath procured Gods vengeaunce so much that nowe they haue almost no Church at all as we may haue right good cause to feare what will become of vs that followe their steppes in such pointes as in them haue duely deserued Gods greuous plaques 4 When you name Athanasius and thinke we shoulde be so sore afrayd of his name you haue good reason for you allege nothing else of him but his name I haue often tolde you Damascens report eyther for his corrupt iudgement or his cracked credit is nothing regarded of vs And euen the authoritie of Athanasius without the worde of God is the authoritie of god And as Augustine sayth of Cyprian we count not all his writing for canonicall Scriptures but we iudge them by the canonicall Scriptures The creede commonly called Athanasius creede although it be very godly and agreeable to the holy Scriptures yet by the iudgement of the best learned was complyed by some later writer then Athanasius As for the plague of the Greeke Church which M. Allen iudgeth to haue fallen vpon them for their departing from the Church of Rome he iudgeth both falsely and vnreasonably For what schisme was the Church of Africa first plaged by the Vandales that were Arians and afterward vtterly subuerted by the Saracens I doubt not but iustly for their sinnes but not for leauing the Romish Church 5 Amongest other for that Chrysostoms authority is exceding graue I will let you see his opinion for the institution of these beneficiall relieuinges of the departeds paine These be his wordes Let vs sieke out all meanes whereby we may best helpe our brethern departed let vs for their sakes bestowe the most present remedie that is to saye almes and oblation for thereby to them ensueth great commoditie gaine and profit for it was not rashly nor without greate cause prouided and to Gods Church by his disciples full of wisedome deliuered and decried that in the dreadfull misteries there shoulde be especiall prayers made by the priest for all those that sleepe in faith For it is a singular benefit to them These were Chrysostoms wordes whereby not onely the trueth of the cause and first authors of the practise be opened but that there is wounderfull benefite to the parties for whome prayers be so made in the holy sacrifice The which thing our forefathers well knewe when they were so earnest after their departure to haue a memory at the holy altar Now adayes heresie hath cankered euen the very deuotion of Catholikes who although they thinke it to be true that Gods Church teacheth herein yet the zele of procuring these meanes is nothing so great as the importaunce of the cause requireth But if they note well those carefull admonitions of all these blessed fathers they shall perceiue that euery time that Christes holy bloude is represented vnto God in the Masse for the departed they feele a present benefite and release of their paines they doe reioyse sayth holy Athanasius when the vnbloudy hoste is offered for them The old fathers to put a difference betwixt the sacrificing of Christes owne body vpon the crosse and the same vpon the altar in the Church doe lightly terme this way of offering the vnbloudy sacrifice and the thinge offered which is Christes owne blessed body they call likewise the host vnbloudy And Chrysostome neuer putting any doubt of the first authors of offering for the deade proueth that it is exceding beneficiall to the deceased because the Apostles full of Gods spirite and wisedome woulde else neuer with such care haue commaunded this holy action to be done for them A lasse a lasse fo◠our deare freindes departed that they must lacke this comforte But wo euerlasting to them that are the cause of so much miserie 5 Chrysostome can no more proue that
prayer for the dead came from the Apostles then Tertullian could proue that oblation for the deade came from them To detest fasting on Sunday and to pray kneeling with diuerse like superstitions Tertullian referreth to the Apostles as well as prayer for the deade deny one and doubt of all the rest And whereas M. Allen vpon contemplation of Chrysostome wordes falleth into a hidden agony cryeth alasse alasse if he would consider what the same man writeth vpon the Epistle to the Philip. Hom. 3. he would not make so great mone the losse is not so great Procuremus eis aliquid auxilij modici quideÌ„ attamen iuuemus eos Let vs procure them some helpe in deede but small helpe yet let vs helpe them Loe M. Allen your owne doctor confesseth it is but smal help that can be procured by prayers almes or remembraunce of them at the celebration of the holy misteries You will say that soone after he sayth the Apostles that instituted such memory knewe that much commodity came to the deade Then see how soone he forgetteth him selfe when he followeth not the rule of holy Scripture Againe howe like you M. Allen that he alloweth not prayers nor the said memory to helpe them that were Catechumeni which were learning their catechisme and dyed before they were baptised S. Ambrose you say cap. 9. of this booke did pray and offer for Gratianus which was but Catechumenus and dyed before he was baptised Againe how agreeth this with your catholike doctrine which you boast is so well ordered to your handes that Chrysostome denyeth them prayers and alloweth them almes for their helpe Catechumenos verò neque isto solatio dignamur sed omni huiusmodi destituti sunt auxilio vno quodam dempto quo nam illo pauperibus illorum nomine dare licet vnde illis non nihil refrigerij accedet As for them that be Catechumeni we count them not worthy of so much as this comfort but they be destitute of all such aide except one What one is that we may giue some thinge for their sake to the poore whereof some refreshing shall come vnto them 6 But heare I pray you what notable wordes S. Damascen hath for the vtilitie and institution of these thinges The holy Apostles and disciples sayth he of our Sauiour Christ haue decried that in the dread soueraigne vndefiled and liuely Sacraments â—o he calleth the Masse there shoulde be kept a memoriall of those that haue taken their sleepe in faith the which ordinaunce vntill this day without gainsaying or controwling the Apostolike and Catholicke Church of God from one cost of the wide world to an other hath obserued and shall religiously keepe till the world haue an ende For doubtlesse these thinges that the Christian religion which is without error free from falshood hath so many ages and worldes continued vnuiolably not without vrgent cause those thinges I say are not vaine but profitable to man acceptable to God and very necessarye for our saluation Thus farre spake the doctor setting forth not onely his owne minde but the faith of a numbre of the peeres of Gods Church wherein to proue this doctrine to be catholike he fitly followeth the same way which Vincentius Lyrinensis gaue vs once for a rule to trye trueth by Prouing that it hath antiquitie as a thinge that came and hath continued euen from the beginning of the Christian religion declaring that it hath the consent of all nations because it is and hath bene practised through out all the costes and corners of the wyde worlde and last that it hath the approbation of the wisest and holyestmen that euer were in the Church of christ And more then all this that it shall so continue till the ende though it be for a time in some peculiar nations omitted because it is receiued into a parte of that worship of God which in the Church can not perishe 6 As for Damascene I know not wherefore his authoritie serueth but to fill vppe the number for neither is his credit nor his antiquitie comparable with the former we refuse not the rule of Vincentius Lyrinensis concerning antiquity so you can proue that it hath God to be the author the Prophets and Apostles As for witnesse vnder this antiquitie that which had an erroneous beginning shall haue a shamefull ending 7 And this prescription of trueth our aduersaires can not auoyde but with such vnseemely dealing as I trust they them selues now be ashamed of as all other reasonable men are For now let them come with brasen facies and blasphemous tounges and say that prayers for the deade be vnprofitable that the rites of the buriall be superstitious that to say the Masse and sacrifice to be propitiatory for the soules departed is iniurious to Christes death that the doctors praised the errours of the ignorant people of their dayes that they all erred and were deceiued that the Church of Christ hath bene ledde in darke ignorance till these our dayes let them bestowe these vaine presumptious wordes where they maye take place for nowe all wise men doe perceiue that all these haue their holy institution by Christ and his Apostles practised vniuersally in the primitiue Church embrased of all godly people and approued to be wholy consonant to Gods worde by the pillors of Christes Church who so consonantly agree together in this point as well for the practise and proofe as for the beginning therof that to dissent from them and trust in these reedes of our dayes were meere madnesse that are pufte to and fro with euery blast of doctrine that care not what they say so that they say not as other their forefathers sayed that had rather then they woulde geue ouer a singular opinion of their owne imagination refuse and denie the authoritie of so many notable wise auncient godly and well learned fathers whome we haue named Although we haue left out many of no worse iudgement plainely auouching these thinges to come into Christes Church and worship by the ordinaunce of his holy Apostles All which thinges if our aduersaries haue reade then they are in a most miserable and heuy taking that doe withstand an open knowen trueth and as I feare against their owne consciences too Or if they haue not reade these plaine assertions of all learned men sith Christes time then they are most impudent that so vainely bragge in a matter whereof they are not skillfull But I trust God will open their eyes and breake their prowde hartes to the obedience of his holy Church 7 Nay M. Allen your prescription is not yet proued that this geare came from Christ and the Apostles The oldest witnesse that you haue alledged fathered manifest fables vpon the institution of Christ the Apostles as you your selfe can not deny if you haue any conscience at all and therefore not sufficient to be credited for that you allege him Wherefore you may bestow where you list these swelling bragges
and the whole congregation yea and speciall regard of the oblations of the poore And in the perticular rehearsing of diuerse kind of persons and the forme of the sacrifice named according to euery perticular state it is so farre of that the deade shall be reckned that such thinges are enioyned euery of these perticular persons to doe as it is playne that none but the liuing could offer or haue sacrifice offered for thē What law was appoynted touching lamenting for the deade you may reade Leuit. 21. how the Priest was forbidden to lament for any but speciall persons also Nu. 19. diuerse ordinances concerning the deade yet neuer any sacrifice or prayer for the deade When Nadab and Abihu were slayne their father and brethren were forbidden to mourne for them the people were permitted By all which it appeareth not only that no sacrifice for the deade was offered but that they were so separated from the liuing that the Priestes might haue nothing to do with any of them but in speciall cases And as for your common shift of the common body of the liuing and the deade helpeth you nothing for although all the faithfull make one body in Christ yet there is one state of them that worke an other of them that are iudged according to their works to put no diuersitie betwene them is not to make a communion but a confusion But of all other it is a clerkely cōclusion that you send M. Grindall to looke vpon the example of your masse whith is a sacrifice both for the quicke the deade and thereof will proue that the olde lawe had but one sacrifice for the liue and the deade In deede there you were to good for him if the practise of the popish church be a good president for Moyses to follow in his law we will reason no longer But the fact of Iudas Machabaeus putteth all out of doubt Surely then the fact of euery man that transgressed the lawe shall be sufficient to proue what the lawe was and not the booke of the lawe For else how coulde he haue conceiued any sacrifice which he neuer hearde of How did Dauid conceiue the cariage of the arke in a newe cart which he neuer heard of except it were of the Philistians that sent home the arke in a cart And euen so it is like that Iudas Machabaeus if he deuised not that sacrifice of his owne head yet tooke it by imitation of the Gentiles whose studies and practises your owne author confesseth were more frequented in those dayes among the Iewes then the preaching or keeping of the law Finally to all the other howe 's and whyes I aunswere with one word he had no warrant of his fact in the law of god Neither doth S. Augustine sufficiently answere the heretike that would proue by that fact that men dying in deadly sinne might be saued by sacrifice For though they were not vncircumcised for whom Iudas sent an offering yet they dyed in deadly sinne and such sinne as for which they were iustly slayne as your owne author confesseth for the idolatrous iewells that they had euery one in their bosomes Concerning the authoritie of that booke and how it was taken by Augustine I haue aunswered enough before 4 But here will I nowe make an ende desiring thee gentle reader with such indifferency to weighe the doing and dealing of both parties as the importaunce of the cause the loue of truth the necessary care of thine owne saluation and thy duety towardes God and his Church requireth There is none of all those pointes which the vnfaithfull contention of our miserable age hath made doubtefull in which thou mayest better beholde howe vpright the wayes of trueth and vertue be and howe pernicious double and deceitfull the dealing of heresie is The one is vpholden by the euidēt testimony of holy scripture the other mainteineth her traine by bolde deniall of scriptures the one seeketh with humility the meaning at their mouthes whome God hath vndoubtedly blessed with the gifte of vnderstanding and interpretation the other by singular pride foundeth her vnfaithfulnesse vpon the phantasies of light and lewde persons that are pufte too and fro with euery blaste of doctrine The one resteth vpon the practise of all nations the vsage of all ages and the holy workes both of God and man the other holdeth wholy by contempte of our elders flatery of the present dayes and vnhappy waste of all workes of vertue religion and deuotion the one followeth the gouernours and appointed pastours of our soules whose names be blessed in heauen and earth the other ioyneth to such as for other horrible heresies wicked life are condemned both a liue and deade of the vertuous and can not for shame be named of their owne scholars The one hath the warraunt of Gods whole Church the other standeth on curse and excommunication by the grauest authority that euer was vnder God in earth To be shorte trueth is the Churches dearlinge heresie must haue her maintenaunce abrode This one holy Catholike and Apostolike Church is it wherevnto we owe all duety and obedience both by Gods commaundement and by the bonde of our first faith and profession There is no force of argument no probability of reason no subtelty of witte no deepe compasse of wordely wisedome no eloquence of man nor Angell nor any other motion that can be wrought in the world that shoulde make a man doubte of any article approued by her authority And if thou yet feare to geue ouer thy whole sense and thine owne selfe to so carefull a mother in whome thou wast begotten in thy better birth compare our Church with theirs compare her authority and theirs her maiesty and theirs 4 In Gods name let the readers waye indifferently the doinges and dealinges on both partes the cause the trueth their saluation the Church and the glory of God aboue all thinges And as they see this pointe handeled so let them iudge of the reste The trueth is vpholden by euident testimony of scripture the error by custome practise and iudgement of men The trueth seeketh vnderstanding of the scriptures of the spirite of God in the scriptures error at the mouthes of mortall men The trueth resteth vpon the onely authority of God error vpon the maintenaunce of carnall deuises The trueth is founded vpon the doctrine of the Prophets and Apostles the other vpon Gentiles and heretikes Trueth is embraced of the pure and primitiue Church of Christ error is continued from a corrupt state of the Church of Christ vnto a plaine departing awaye into the church of Antichrist To be short trueth is tryed by the worde of God heresie by the inuention of men The holy Catholicke and Apostolicke Church is that which humbly obeyeth the word of God and the Synagoge of Satan is that which arrogantly challengeth authoritie aboue the worde The true Church shall neuer decaye but alwaye reigne with Christ the false Synagoge shall daily more and more decaye
church affirmeth Luther to be an heretike seeing we know that Luther did not obstinately and malitiously erre in any article of faith concerning the substance of religion we doe not beleue her and specially because she is a partiall witnesse against him whome God vsed to discouer so much of her wickednesse to her great hindrance there is no credit to be geuen vnto her when she goeth about to deface him by sclaunderous names and false accusations Thus I haue shewed these thinges that you require both by good reason and also by scripture Therefore if I may beleue you you recant The fourth article conteyneth 3. demandes 1 I demand what Church hath mightely gonne through borne downe and fully vanquished all heresies in times past aswell against the blessed Trinitie as other Articles of our religion I Aunswere the true Catholike Church hath alwayes resisted all false opinions contrary to the worde of God as her duty was and fought against them with the sworde of the spirite which is the worde of God and by the aide of God obteyned the victorie and triumphed ouer them So did Paule ouercome the Iewes Act. 18. So did the fathers of the primitiue Church from time to time confute heresies by the scriptures and declare in their writinges that by them they are to be confuted for examples sake of a great number I will alleage a few Hylarius writing of the blessed Trinitie against heretikes Lib. 4. sayeth Cessent itaque propriae hominum opiniones neque se vltrà Diuinam constitutionem humanae iudicia extendant Sequamur ergo aduersus irreligiosas impias de Deo institutiones ipsas illas diuinoruÌ„m dictorum authoritates vnumquodque eorum ipso de quo quaeritur auctore tractabimus Wherefore let opinions propre to men geue place and let not mens iudgements stretche them selues further than God his constitution Therefore against these vnreligious and vngodly opinions of God let vs follow the very authority of God his sayings and handle euery one of them by the aide of him about whome the question is Thus Hylarius woulde haue heresies against the Trinitie to be confuted not by mens iudgement but by God his word Basilius magnus very often testifieth that he woulde haue all good thinges proued by the scripture and all euill thinges confuted by the same In his moralles Dist. 26. Euery worde or deede must be confirmed by the testimonie of holy Scripture for the perswasion of good men and the confusion of wicked men And in his treatise of Faith we know that we must now and alwayes auoide euery voice or opinion that is differing from the doctrine of our Lorde And in his short definitions to the first interrogation whether it be lawefull or profitable for a man to permit vnto him selfe to do or say any thinge which he thinketh to be good without the testimonie of the holy Scripture he aunswereth forasmuch as our Sauiour Christ sayeth that the holy Ghost shall not speake of him selfe what madnes is it that any man shoulde presume to beleue any thing without the authoritie of God his worde By these and many other places it is manifest that Basilius woulde haue heresies and false opinions confuted by the holy Scriptures Chrysostome vpon Luke cap. 16. sayeth that the ignorance of the scriptures hath bred heresies and brought in corrupt life yea it hath turned all things vpsidown by which it appeareth by what meanes he would haue heresies kept away namely by knowledge of the scriptures It were to long to reherse all the places of S. Augustine by which his minde appeareth that he would haue the Church sought onely in the scriptures and heretikes confuted onely by the scriptures to whose onely authoritie in many places he professeth that he him selfe will be bounde as Epist. 19. ad Hieronymum Epist. 48. Vincentio Epist. 111. Fortunatiano Epist. 112. to Paulina contra Faustum lib. 11. cap. 5. Contra Cresconium Grammaticum lib. 2. cap. 31. 32. de Baptismo contra Donatistas lib. 2. cap. 2. De meritis remissione peccatorum contra Pelagianos lib. 3. cap. 7. De naturae gratia cap. 61. De gratia Christi contra Pelagium cap. 43. De nuptijs concupiscentia lib. 2. c. 29. In these places S. Augustine preferreth the authority of the Canonicall scripture before all writinges of Catholike Doctors of Byshops of Councells before all customes and traditions But that he would haue the true Church sought onely in the scriptures it is manifest by these places first in his 48. Epistle to Vincentius Nos autem ideo certi sumus neminem se a communione omnium gentium iustè separare potuisse quia non quis quam nostrum in iustitia sua sed in scripturis Diuines quaerit Ecclesiam speaking of the Donatistes he sayeth We are suer that no man could iustly separate him selfe from the communion of all Nations because none of vs seeketh the Church in his owne righteousnesse but in the holy Scriptures So if the Papistes woulde not presume of their owne righteousnesse but seeke the Church of Christ in the scriptures they would not separate them selues from the communion of Christes Church now by God his grace inlarged farther than the Popish church Also in his booke De vnitate Ecclesiae cap. 2. he hath these wordes Inter nos autem Donatistas quaestio est vbi sit Ecclesa Quid ergo facturi sumus in verbis nostris â—am quaesituri an in verbis capitis sui Domini nostri Iesu Christiâ— puto quod in illius potius verbis eam quaerere debemus qui veritas est optimè nouit corpus suum The question is betwene vs and the Donatistes where the Church shoulde be what shall we doe then shall we seeke her in our owne wordes or in the wordes of her heade our Lorde Iesus Christ I thinke we ought rather to seeke her in his words which is the Truth and best knoweth his owne body So the question is at this daye betwen the Papistes and vs where the church is let vs seeke in God his worde there we shall easily finde her To the same intent he speaketh in the third fiueth and sixtenth Chapters of the same treatise Furthermore that he woulde haue heretikes confuted onely by the scriptures he sheweth likewise in many places of his workes for writing against Maximinus the Arian lib. 3. cap. 14. a place commonly and often cited he sayeth but nowe neither must I preiudicially bring forthe the Councell of Nice nor then the Councell of Arimine for neither am I bounden to the authoritie of the one nor you of the other but let matter with matter cause with cause reason with reason contend by authoritie of the scriptures not proper to any but indâ—fferent witnesses to both partes If Augustine would not oppresse the Arrians by the authoritie of the Nicene Councell which was the first and the best generall Councell that euer was but only by the scriptures how much lesse woulde he
for as euery heretike chalengeth vnto him selfe the trueth of opinions so also doth he chalenge the possession of the church so that the church is alwayes in as great question as the doctrine And then is it to be sought out and tried onely by the scriptures as we haue declared at large in the aunswere to the 4. Article 2. demande Secondly whereas you demande whether she coulde be so hidde or close that no man coulde finde her because I haue aunswered to this demande fower or fiue times already I will now aunswere in one worde Although she was bidden and close from the worlde yet was she knowen to them that were her children 2 Or so harteles that she coulde succour no man nor instruct any man in his doubt of conscience or distresse of Faith proue me that there maye be such a decay of Gods spirite trueth and Church and I recant THe Church hath neuer bene afraide to do her office towardes her children and true members in teaching â—xhorting comforting confirming c. neither hath the spirite of God failed to leade her into all trueth and Christ hath bene with her euer more and shal be to the worldes end But that the spirite of God truth and the Church of Christ shoulde departe from the greatest numbre of the worlde is proued by S. Paule 2. Thess. 2. and by the Reuelation of S. Iohn Apoc. 12. Therfore if the spirite of trueth did leade you you shoulde recant The 26. article conteyneth in effect but 3. demandes 1 Shew me againe whether any man of yeares may be saued except he beleue the Catholike Church THere is no man of what age or yeares soeuer he be that can be saued except he be a member of the Catholike church But how necessary it is to beleue the Catholike church it is very doubtfull as you demande and as the conclusion of this article seemeth to require If you meane that it is necessary to beleue the Catholike church that is to say that God hath an holy vniuersall Congregation I graunt it is necessary to beleue But I vtterly deny that the Romish church is that holy Catholike church But if you meane as it seemeth and as the rest of the Papistes doe interprete that article I beleue the Catholike church that is I beleue what soeuer the church doth allow to be true I deny that it is necessary to saluation that a Christian man should so beleue the Catholike church both because the church may erre also because something may be commonly receiued of the church which is not materiall to saluation And that this is a false interpretation of this article of our Creede I beleue the Catholike church that is I beleue what so euer she doth set forth or maintaine to be true appeareth manifestly by the wordes them selues For who euer was so ignorant in the Latine tongue to thinke that Credere Ecclesiam and Credere Ecclesiae were all one in signification In deede if the wordes were Credo Ecclesiae Catholicae in the datiue case this interpretation might take place but when it is in the accusatiue case Credo Ecclesiam Catholicam A boy that woulde conster it otherwise than thus I beleue that there is a Catholike church were worthy to haue a doosen stripes for his labour Moreouer this common distinction of Credere in Deum that is to put our trust in god Credere Deum that is to beleue that there is a God and Credere Deo that is to geue credit to God that he speaketh the trueth plainely ouerthroweth this foolish and false interpretation For we say not Credo in Ecclesiam that is I put my whole trust in the Church for that were blasphemie against God in whome only we must beleue neither do we say Credo Ecclesiae that is I geue credit to the Church as though she shoulde alwaies speake the trueth But we saye and confesse against all heretikes and scismatikes Credo Ecclesiam c. that is I beleue that there is one Holy Catholike and Apostolike church whereof I am a member c. Finally when the articles following are spoken in one context and phrase it can not be chosen but that they must haue one kinde of interpretation Communionem Sanctorum Remissionem peccatorum Carnis resurrectionem that is I beleue the Communion of Sainctes the forgeuenesse of sinnes the Resurrection of the body c. whereof the interpretation must needes be this I beleue that there is a Communion of Sainctes that there is forgiuenesse of sinnes c. Euen so I beleue that there is a Catholike Church which is an article of our crede necessary to be beleued of euery Christian man but to beleue all and euery thing that the Catholike church by commoÌ„ consent doth maintaine is no article of our Faith and therefore not necessary to saluation 2 And that is it which hath in the face of all the worlde practised preachâ—ng the conuersion of nations to the obedience of the Gospell that hath alwaies had the ministring of sacraments the hearing of matters in controuersie power Iudiciarie in Ecclesiasticall causes the orderly succession of Byshops vniformitie in solemne ceremonies vnity in faith that hath in her selfe all holy functions of the spirite as working of miracles remission of sinnes the true sence and interpretation of Gods word that is bewtified by the diuersitie of states commended by Christ in the Gospell as with Virgines with Martyrs with Confessors and the rest BEcause these colewortes haue bene sodden twise or thryse already they are not worthy to be shewed in seuerall dishes but euen as they are here mingled all togither in an hochpotte Of these notes that you make proper to the Catholike Church as it hath bene declared before some are not alwaies necessary in the catholike church As open preaching in the face of the world open ministring of Sacraments and execution of discipline these are not to be required in a persecuted Church Some were proper for a time and then ceased as working of miracles and diuers other functions of the spirite Some are neuer necessary in the Church as succession of Bishops vniformitie in ceremonies c. But of all these notes there is not one that is proper to the Church of Rome for she hath not alwaies practised open preaching and neuer preached the worde of truth she hath conuerted but few nations to her Religion from Gentilitie and them rather by warre than by preaching she neuer had sence she first arose the ministring of sacraments according to Christ his institutioÌ„ she hath hard matters in controuersie not for furtherance of Iustice but for loue of money Her iudiciarie power may be dispensed withall for money She hath had no orderly succession of Bishops except an hore be an orderly Bishop of the Church of Rome And except so many schismes as they write of be orderly successions she hath not vniformitie in all ceremonies for diuerse nations and diuerse Churches in these nations haue diuers
person A childe then of this houshold continuing in fauour though he can not euerlastingly perish with the impenitent sinners yet he must being not by some especial prerogatiue pardoned beare the rodde of his fathers discipline And gladly say with the prophet In flagella paratus sum I am ready for the roddes And whatsoeuer these wantons that are runne out of this house for their owne ease or other mennes flattery shal forge let vs continue in perpetuall cogitation of our sinnes forgeuen and by all meanes possible recompence our negligences past Let vs not think but God hath somewhat to say to vs euen for our offences pardoned being thus warned by â—is owne mouth Sed habeo aduersum te pauca quòd charitatem tuam primam reliquisti Memor esto itaque vnde excideris age poeniteÌ„tiam prima opera fac But somewhat I haue against thee because thou art fallen from thy first loue Remembre therefore from whence thou fell do penaunce and beginne thy former workes againe And the consideration of this diuersitie betwixt remission had by baptisme and after relapse by the sacrament of penaunce moued Damascen to call this second remedie Baptismum vere laboriosum quod per poenitentiam lachrymas perficitur A kinde of Baptisme full of trauell by penaunce and teares to be wroght In which God so pardoneth sinnes that both the offence it selfe and the euerlasting paine due for the same being wholy by Christes death merites wyped away there may yet remaine the debt of temporal punishmeÌ„t on our parte to be discharged as well for some satisfactioÌ„ of Gods iustice against the eternal ordre wherof we vnworthely offended as for to aunswere the Church of her right as S. Austine saith in which only al sinnes be forgeueÌ„ Mary when occasion of satisfying for our offensies in this life is neglected or lacke of time by reason of longe continuance and late repentaunce suffereth not due recompense in our life which is the time of mercie then certes the hand of God shall be much more heuie and the punishment more greuous And this is with out doubt to be looked for that the debt due for sinne must either here by paine or pardon be discharged or els to our greater grief after our departure required CAP. I. 1 ALthough the argument of this chapter be but one yet I thought it good to diuide the answere into two partes The former part containeth his proposition the latter his confirmation And first concerning the sufficiency of Christes redemption there is nothing can be spoken so magnifically but that the worthines thereof passeth and excedeth it I will therefore agree with you in that you say of the comfort sufficiency and aboundant pâ—â—ce of the death of Christ and I would you would alwayes agre with your selfe in the constant confession of the same truth I receaue also that which you affirme that the benefit of his death extendeth also to the members of his mystical body But in that which you make to be the onely meane whereby the same is conueyed and applyed vnto vs I can not but dissent from your iudgement For the meane on Gods behalfe by which we are made partakers of the fruites of Christes passion and so grafted into his body is his holy spirite of promise which is the earnest and assuraunce of our inheritaunce who worketh in vs fayth as the onely meane by which the righteousnes of Christ is applyed vnto vs Eph. 1. And as for the Sacraments which you seeme to make the onely condittes of Gods mercy we are taught in the holy Scriptures that they are the seales of Gods promises geuen for the confirmation of our fayth as was circumcision to Abraham when he was iustified before through faith Rom. 4. You will vs in the margent to marke the grounde of your cause which is in deede a good admonition For seeing the grounde of your cause leaneth vpon your onely affirmation and is contrary to thautority of Gods word iniurious to the spirite of God and neglecting the fayth of Christ what so euer you buyld thereuppon must needes be like the foundation But howe shoulde your free will be maintayned if Gods spirite had any place that distributeth to euery one according to the good pleasure of his owne will. 1. Cor. 12. And how should the Sacrament geue grace of the worke wrought if fayth were requisite in them that receiue them Of like authority it is which you say that like effect is not geuen to all the Sacramentes Surely all the Sacramentes of Christes institution haue lyke effect in Gods elect But let vs heare your difference By baptisme all sinne committed before and the punishment thereof is clearely forgeuen by the Sacrament of penaunce though the sinne be forgiuen yet there remayneth a temporal punishment When the Pope geueth a general pardon à poena culpa doth he not it by the sacrament of penaunce if he do it by that sacrament then are temporall paines also remitted therby Thus one falshod ouerthroweth an other But Christ you say the author of this sacrament meant not to communicate such efficacie â—o this as to Baptisme Here are two assertions first of the author then of the force of this Sacrament but neither of both able to be proued by the word of god Neuerthelesse here is brought in that which is thought to be the piller not onely of purgatory but also of all other popish satisfactions namely the chastisement and correction that God ministreth to his children whose sinnes he hath pardoned which is not a satisfaction for the sinnes past but a warning for the time to come and is neuer accompted in scripture for an answering of Gods iustice but a token of his mercy being not the punishment of a iudge but the chastisement of the father to the amendement of his childe that suffereth and for an admonition of other that they likewise offend not Heb 12. And after this manner are also those places to be vnderstood where God is sayd to punish the offences of his children But whereas M. Allen allegeth the saying of Christ vnto the Angell of the Church of Ephesus Apoc. 2. But I haue somewhat against thee c. to proue that God hath somewhat to say for our offences pardoned I maruell whether he were sleeping or waking when he wrote it for there the pastor and Church is charged for their offence which is not to be pardoned except they repent if they repent to be clearly remitted But 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 or age poenitentiam with M. Allen is doe penaunce doing of penaunce with him soundeth to make satisfaction He professeth in one place his ignoraunce in the Greeke tongue but if he would but acknowledge what poenitere in Latine signifieth to be sory he neede not to haue occupied him selfe in alleging that place But proceding a litle further he maketh two causes why the debt of temporall punishment remaineth to be
and good workes shew their coÌ„uersion not only by wordes but in deed and in trueth c. With them the Byshop maie deale more gently whereas those that thinke it is sufficient onely to enter into the Church are charged in any wise to keepe the ordinary time c. Wherefore he that gathereth that paines are due to sinnes after remission of them by example of them that remitted no sinnes but after sufficient paines suffered for them or amendes made for them I holde him not onely malitious blinde but beastly vnreasonable 4 And if any man yet doubt why or to what end the Church of Christ thus greuousely tormenteth her owne children by so many meanes of heuy correction whome she might by good authoritie freely release of their sinnes let him assuredly know that she coulde not so satisfie Gods iustice alwayes by whome she holdeth her authoritie to edifie and not to destroye to bynd as well as to loose Although such dolour for offensies committed and so earnest zele may she sometimes finde in the offender that her chiefe and principall pastors may by their soueraigne authoritie wholy discharge him of all paines to come But els in the commoÌ„ case of Christian men this penaunce is for no other cause enioyned but to saue them from the more greuous torment in the worlde following In the which sense S. Augustine both speaketh him selfe and proueth his meaning by the Apostles wordes as followeth Propterea de quibusdam temporalibus poenis quae in hac vita peccantibus irrogantur eis quorum peccata delentur ne reseruentur in finem ait Apostolus si enim nosmetipsos iudicaremus a domino noÌ„ iudicaremur Cum iudicamur autem a domino corripimur ne cum hoc mundo dâ—mnemur Therefore sayth he it is of certaine temporall afflictions which be laid vpon their neckes that being sinners haue their trespasses pardoned lest they be called to an accompt for them at the latter ende that the Apostle meaneth by when he sayth If we woulde iudge our selues we shoulde not then be iudged of our lord And when we be iudged of our Lord then are we chastened that we be not damned with the worlde This onely carefull kindnesse of our mother therefore that neuer remitted sinne that was notorious in any age but after sharp punishment or earnest charge with some proportionall penaunce for the same doth not onely geue vs a louing warning to beware and preuent that heuie correction of the worlde to come which S. Paule calleth the iudgement of God because it is a sentence of iustice but also in her owne practise here in earth of mercy in pardoning of iustice in punishment she geueth vs a very cleare example of both the same to be vndoubtedly looked for at the handes of God him selfe by whome in the kingdome of the Church these both in his behalfe be profitably practised For if there were no respect of the dredfull day in the ende of our life nor any paine further due for sinnes remitted in the next world then were it cruell arrogancy in the ministers to charge men with penaunce needlesse to the offender and foly to the sufferer But God forbid any shoulde be so malipert or misbeleuing as to miscredit the doinges and doctrine of the Catholike Church which by the authoritie she hath to binde sinnes and the protection of the holy Ghost hath vsed this rodde of correction to the profit of so many and hurte of none euer sence our maisters death and departure 4 Marke here gentle reader what an absolute power of remissioÌ„ of sinns this Papist doth ascribe to the Church that she might he sayth by good authority freely release men of their sinnes with out satisfying of Gods iustice but that she will not except in some case where she findeth such dolour and zeale in the offender that her chiefe and principall Pastors may by there soueraine authoritie wholy discharge him of all paines to come Marke here the soueraigne authoritie of the Pope not subiect no not to the iustice of god For els how should the Popes pardons stand or Christes merites be excluded if the Pope had not power to doe by his soueraigne authority that Christ coulde not doe by his bitter passion to discharge penitent sinners of all paines to come you see therefore that the Popish church is not as a wife subiect to Christ her spouse to exercise on earth the authoritie of Christ in heauen according to his will but a presumptuous harlot to claime soueraigne authoritie in earth wherevnto he is bounde which is in heauen For otherwise though the olde fathers that were most earnest in maintaining the Churches authoritie as Cyprian Sermo de lapsis speaking against theÌ„ which thought it was sufficient if they were receiued by the ordinary authoritie of the Church although they were not truely penitent writeth thus Nemo se fallat nemo decipiat Solus dominus misereri potest veniam peccatis quae in ipsum commissa sunt solus potest ille largiri qui peccata nostra portauit qui pro nobis doluit quem Deus tradidit pro peccatis nostris Homo Deo esse non potest maior nec remittere aut donare indulgentia sua seruus potest quod in dominum delicto grauiore commissum est ne adhuc lapso hoc accedat ad crimen si nesciat esse praedictum Maledictus homo qui spem habet in homine Dominus orandus est dominus nostra satisfactione placandus est qui negantem negare se dixit Let no man sayth he deceiue him selfe let no man begile him selfe It is onely the Lorde that can shew mercy Onely he can graunt pardon to offenses that are coÌ„mitted against him who hath borne our sinnes Who hath suffered sorrow for vs whome God hath geuen for our sinnes A man can not be greater then God neither can the seruaunt by his indulgence remit or forgeue that which by so great offence is committed against the Lorde lest this offence also be added to him that is fallen away if he know not that it is fore shewed Cursed is that man that putteth his trust in man The Lorde must be intreated the Lorde must be pacified with our satisfaction which sayth he doth deny that man that denieth him In these wordes Cyprian not onely plainely denieth that absolute soueraigne authoritie of men which M. Allen affirmeth but also declareth what he meaneth by satisfactioÌ„ of god Namely that those which counterfected repentaunce and though by some outwarde obseruations to satisfie the Church might know they had to doe with God who was not pleased but with inwarde and harty conuersion whose knowledge they must satisfie with true repentaunce in deede as they seeke to satisfie iudgement of the Church by externall signes and tokens thereof But to returne to the common case of Christian men for the Popes cases be out of the common case of christen men M. Allen sayth penaunce and by penaunce he
God they are now bestowed according to their founders intent For they that serue the aultar of God must needes pull downe the aultars of idolls And if any portions that were taken from the world be gone to the worldely agayne I meane the Abbies and their landes it is the iust plague of God vpon them that vnder hypocrisie of forsaking the world liued not like men of the world but like deuills of hell And whereas you aske agayne if any man would take from his owne wife children to bestow vppon Priestes wiues and children I haue aunswered before that the chiefe collegiat Churches in England were first inhabited of married Priestes which taught sounder doctrine and liued a more chast life then the Epicureous Monkes that succeeded them I might aske of you M. Allen if they meant not to mainteyne Priestes wiues their children whether they ment rather to mainteyne Priestes whores their bastardes Byshops brothells and their minions Sodom and Gomor of Monkes Fryers it was neither Cutberd VVilliam nor VVilfryde wether they were holy or superstitious but the prouidence of God that appointed such portion as the Church now enioyeth if the same by any meanes should be taken from them yet God hath appointed that they which preach the Gospell shall liue of the Gospell We are not so carefull of worldly liuelihood as you knowing your owne disease imagine that we should be that we would come into your filthy Synagoge to winne Cardinalls hatts or Archbishops palls some of vs if they had sought worldly promotion by abusing their learning wittes to the maintenaūce of your horrible heresies needed not to haue come frō you to seke preferment among the Protestants which you know is neither so great nor so easy to come by as among the Papists 8 But let them on thinke on these matters them selues I will turne againe to my purpose although I can not goe farre from my matter so longe as I am in the beholdinge of that faith which our first preachers brought vnto vs at our first conuersion or in any steppe of the antiquitie which we well perceiue to be the fructe only of that doctrine which we haue declared and an euident testimony of so vndoubted a trueth I thinke there is no way so certaine for the contentation of a mans selfe in this time of doubting and diuersitie in doctrine as in all matters to haue an eye towards the faith which we receiued when we were first conuerted And for that point I woulde wishe that S. Bedes history were familiar vnto all men that hath vnderstanding of the Latine tongue and to all other if it were possible for there shall they plainely see the first beginning the increase the continuance the practise the workes proceding out of the catholike faith feare not that is the trueth for that was the first and that was grounded by Gods worde and openly confirmed by miracle And that point must be considered not onely for our owne countrie but for all others that be or hath bene Christianed For into the selfe same faith were they first ingraffed also as by the peculiar practising of euery good man towardes his freinde and louer I haue already declared and nowe for the generall vsage of Gods Church the reader shall at large perceiue that nothing may wante to our cause whereby any trueth or light may be had 8 The conclusion of your chapter is a recourse to the beginning you thinke it is the suerest way to looke to that faith in all poyntes which this land first receiued If men should follow your counsell as in some things they should follow your faith which you now teach so in many poynts namely in that which you coūt the chiefe the reall presence of the naturall body of Christ they should go as farre from that you teach nowe as you would haue them come neare some things that were receiued thē And wheras you wish that Bedes history for that purpose were made familiar and some of you in deede haue taken paynes to translate it into English they that list not to be deceiued but to see into what faith all nations were conuerted that were turned by the Apostles they were better to consider the word of God and the history of the actes of the Apostles which if you durst abyde the tryall thereof you would exhort men to reade it at least wise that vnderstand Latine And if you were as zealous to sette forth the glory of God as you are earnest to mainteyne your owne traditions one or other of you which haue so longe founde faulte with our translations of the scripture woulde haue taken paines to translate them truely your selues as well as to translate Bedes booke or else to write such bables as you doe M. Allen and all the packe of you but all in vayn◠to shadowe the same whose right shoulde easely discusse all clowdes of darke doctrine and the more it is impugned the more bright shall it shewe and the more it is compared with darkenesse the more glorious it shall appeare That in euery ordre or vsage of celebration of the blessed sacrament and Sacrifice through out the Christian vvorlde since Christes time there hath bene a solemne supplication for the soules departed CAP. XI 1 THerefore let vs see howe the Church our mother of her piety vseth generall supplication in all seruice and solemne administration of the blessed sacramēt euen for those whose freindes haue forgotten them whose paines and trauell worldely men remembre not whose obscure condicion of life or pouerty woulde not suffer them to procure prayers by their knowen deedes of charity or almes Those men I say that doe lacke singular patronage of their freindes those hath she remembred in the rites of celebration vsed in all countries and in euery age sithens the Apostles dayes VVhich ordres of diuine seruice as they haue bene diuers in forme of wordes so they perfectly and wholy agreed in the substance of the sacrifice in praying and offering for the deade and supplication to sainctes as thou shalt straight wayes by their vsed ordre of wordes perceiue And as we goe forwarde herein euer let vs beare this rule in minde Quòd legem credendi lex statuit supplicandi in that sense speaketh S. Augustine often against heretikes the ordre of the Churches prayer is euer a plaine prescriptiō for all the faithfull what to beleue And the motherly affection that the Church beareth towardes all her children departed the saide doctor thus expresseth Non sunt praetermittendae supplicationes pro spiritibus mortuorum quas faciēdas pro omnibus in Christiana Catholica societate defunctis etiam tacitis nominibus quorumcūque sub generali cōmemoratione suscepit ecclesia vt quibus ad ista desunt parentes aut filij aut quicunque cognati vel amici ab vna eis exhibeantur pia matro cōmuni That is to say in our tongue Prayer must not be omitted for the
true worship to banish together our fathers faith CAP. XII 1 IN this chapter where he vomiteth out nothing but rayling and lying he doth rather bewraye his owne infirmitie then touch the strength of our cause For being trobled with a sore laxe of the tongue which I take to be a like disease in the mouth that it is in the wombe he gusheth out nothing but bragging and faceing scolding and sclaundering tauntinge and trifling And therefore I will but breefely confute his vanity and turne him to his matches to contend in that kind of quarreling The chiefe argument he sayeth that the Church in times past and Augustine the Churches champion vsed against the Pelagians was to shewe that their heresie was contrary to the publicke prayers of the Church what shoulde I vse many wordes I appeale to the iudgement of all Papistes that haue not loste all vse of naturall reason and indifferent iudgement which either haue reade or will take paines to reade so many workes as Augustine did write against the Pelagians whether of an hundreth arguments that he vseth this insultation be not one of the feeblest which tooke no holde of the Pelagians by force of trueth that is in it but by their owne concession and graunt of that prayer to be godly and them to be of the Church that so prayed But now the controuersie is not onely of the substance of doctrine but of the Church it selfe also And therefore when Augustine had to doe with the Donatistes that challenged the Church vnto them selues he setteth all other tryalles aside and prouoketh onely to the scriptures Therefore M. Allen if you wil teach your schollers to kepe vs at the baye as heretikes you must not teach them to barke and baule nothing but the Church the Church like tinckers curres but you must instructe them to open conningly out of the scriptures how our doctrine is cōtrary to the trueth and yours agreable to the same I do not blame you if you would faine haue that argument of the Church without tryall which is the Church to take place for it woulde ease you and your fellowes of much paine it woulde serue you both for a sworde and a buckler all other bookes arguments and reasons might be layed a side and keepe silence The Church sayth it and we are the Church therefore it is true The scriptures them selues are altogether needelesse where this argument may stand for payment This is so plaine a proofe that the aduersaries shall not be able to saye baffe vnto it In deede they were but sory whelpes that could not say baffe to the bleating of such a calfe as you are which thinke that such a foolish cauill can carry credit with them that haue any cromme of brayne in their heads The Church prayeth so therefore it is true Nay Syr you pray and practise to controle the word of God therefore you are not the Church of god Proue that you doe not so or else prate as long as you wil. And thinke not to dorre vs with Cyprians name where as if you had his iudgement we might be bold to say as the same Augustine hath giuen vs example Nos nullam Cypriano facimus iniuriam cum eius quaslibet literas à canonica diuinarum scripturarum auctoritate distinguimus Neque enim sine causa tam salubri vigilantia canon Ecclesiasticus constitutus est ad quem certi Prophetarum Apostolorum libri pertinent quos omninò iudicare non audeamus secundum quos de caeteris literis vel fidelium vel infidelium liberè vindicemus Contra Cresconium Gram. lib. 2. cap. 31. We doe Cyprian none iniurie at all when we put difference betwene any of his writinges from the canonicall authoritie of the holy Scriptures For not without a cause with so holesome diligence is the ecclesiasticall canon appoynted vnto which certeyne bookes of the Prophets and Apostles doe perteyne which we dare not iudge at all according to which we may freely iudge of all other writings either of faithfull men or infidells And againe in the 32. chapter Ego huius epistolae auctoritate non teneor quia literas Cypriani non vt Canonicas habeo sed eas ex canonicis considero quod in eis diuinarum scripturarum auctoritati congruit cum laude eius accipio quod autem non congruit cum pace eius respuo I am not bound to the authoritie of this epistle because I count the letters of Cyprian not as canonicall scriptures but I consider them by the canonicall scriptures and what so euer I finde in them agreeable to the authoritie of holy Scriptures I take it with his prayse that which agreeeth not I reiect it with his leaue Iudge here gentle reader whether Augustine would or should with any indifferency bind either men to the absolute admitting of Cyprians authoritie wherwith he would not be holden him self and know Allen for a Iangler on Augustines wordes against the meaning of Augustine or any reasonable man. 2 I would learne by what Churches example they haue lefte out of their newe fangled phantasticall seruice the offering and praying for the departed One of them was so impudent to say in an open booke that the Lyturgies of the fathers made all against the Catholikes for the proofe of their false assertions VVherein sir I pray you tell me I woulde call you by your name if I knew who you were there you were ashamed of your owne name therefore ye shall lacke the glory of your assertion But who so euer you be I pray you what affinitie betwixt their office of celebration and yours doe you finde they offer the holy hoste they worship it they shewe it they pray vnto it which of all these doe you they blesse it with the signe of the holy crosse they practise the action vpon an altar how well follow you these they pray for the deade they make inuocation solemnely to sainctes they ioyne with all catholike Churches in the worlde where is your cause here amended or ours not plainely proued If their seruice like you so wel or at least better thē S. Gregories Masse you might with more honestie haue chosed for any one of them then haue forged a newe one of your owne which in deede is directly repugnant to all other rites in the Christian world VVhich you may well terme the seruice of contradiction and damnation as one that neither communicateth with the sainctes in heauen with the soules in purgatory nor with the faithfull a liue And being ashamed of the Latine Church you chalenge an other origine of faith out of the Easte parte as though your matter were well amended if you might shake of that faith and worship which our countrie in her conuersion first receiued and in which till this daye she hath happely lyued and make the heade of our holy tradition vncertaine by referring vs vnto an vnknowen origine 2 He would know by what churches example we haue
conteyned the argument is most inuincible that concludeth negatiuely thus All true doctrine is taught in the Scripture purgatory is not taught in the Scripture therefore purgatory is no true doctrine And this conclusion M. Allen him selfe made of mans authoritie cap. 13. purgatory and prayers for the dead were not preached against at their first entry ergo they are true But of all mens authoritie it is false wheras he sayth we are ouerthrowers destroyers we confesse we are so of all false doctrine and heresie For the word of God is appoynted not only to teach truth but also to ouerthrow error not onely to build faith but to destroy falshood But it is a proper cōceit wherin he pleaseth him self as other of his sect do to tel vs that all our faith standeth vpon negatiues I could frame the Papists as holsome a creede all vpō affirmatiues if they wil receiue it This is more then boyish babling All trueth is to be affirmed all falshood to be denyed Therefore it is not to be loked what is affirmatiue and what negatiue but what is true or false that is affirmed or denyed But to runne through the articles of that creede which he hath framed for vs we truely beleue that man after his fall hath not free will no not aptnes of will to thinke any thing that is good 2. Cor. 3. we beleue truely that a man is not iustified by workes but by faith onely Rom. 3. And yet we beleue that good workes are necessary to be in euery man that is iustified Iac. 2. we beleue that the Church is not alwayes knowne to the wicked vpon earth neither the vniuersall Church seene at all of men because it is in heauen Gal. 4. we beleue that the catholicke Church hath no chiefe gouerner vppon earth but Christ vnto whom all power is giuen in heauen earth Matth. 28. we beleue there are but 2. Sacraments of the new testament baptisme and the Lordes supper instituted by Christ 1. Cor. 10. we beleue that they geue not grace of the worke wrought but after the faith of the receiuer and according to the election of God. 1. Cor. 10. Baptisme is necessary for all Christians to receiue that are not by necessitie excluded from it 1. Pet. 3. Christ is present at his Supper but not after a grosse and caparnaiticall maner but as he was present in Manna to the fathers 1. Cor. 10. There is no sacrifice propitiatory for our sinnes but onely the sacrifice of Christes death once offered for all Heb. 10. There is no priesthood to offer sacrifice propitiatory but only the priesthood of Christ according to the order of Melchizedech Heb. 7. The spirituall priesthood is common to all Christian men and women 1. Pet. 1. we haue an altar of which it is not lawfull for them to eate which serue the tabernacle and other beside we haue none Heb. 13. we call not vpon Sainctes because we beleue not in them for how shoulde we call vpon them in whome we beleue not Rom. 10. There is no prayer for the deade nor purgatory after this life because they that liue vnto Christ dye vnto him and being dissolued are with him Ioan. 17. Christ descended into hell to redeeme vs out of hell by suffering the wrath of God for our sinnes Heb. 5. There is no Lymbus for the fathers were at rest with God where they are now whether we call the place Abrahams bosome or paradise or heauen Luke 16. and 23. 2. Cor. 12. The rest which you adde maye be the beginning of the Popish creede which you maye as you list continue negatiuely or affirmatiuely after this maner God a lone knoweth not the heartes of all men God onely is not to be worshipped and serued for Sainctes haue both the one and the other God onely is not true for the Pope can not erre Christ is not our onely mediator and aduocate for Marie and the Sainctes are also Christes death is not a sufficient redemption for vs for we must satisfie for our selues Christes death hath not taken away both our sinnes and the punishment of them but the Popes padon maye Christ is not onely our high priest according to the order of Melchizedech for euery hedge priest is of the same order Christ hath not made them that are sanctified perfect by a sacrifice once offered for all For y greatest part is lefte to the masse Our sinnes are not freely forgeuen vs by Christ for we must satisfie for them A man is not iustified by fayth without the workes of the lawe for euery man must merite for him selfe The scriptures are not sufficient to teach vs all trueth but we must haue vnwritten verities The worde of God is not of soueraine authoritie for the decrees of the Pope and generall councells be equall with it This is the Papistes creede both in the affirmatiue and in the negatiue But in that you exhort the Papistes to reade Caluins institution and there to see whether he teacheth any truth therein I woulde to God that all Papistes in Englande woulde followe your counsell pray vnfaynedly that God would open there eyes that they may see his trueth if it be taught in that booke 2 This negatiue faith hath no grounde nor confidence of thinges to be hoped for nor any certaintie of such thinges as doe not yet appeare but it is an euident ouerthrowe of all our hope and a very canker of the expectation of thinges to come This faith therefore of these pluckers downe must needes vse a conuenient instrument to destroye and not to builde to plucke vp and not to plante to improue and not to make proofe But what way is that mary by way of negatiue proofe they confirme their negatiue and no faith Purgatory say they nor prayers for the deade be not so much as once named in all the scripture ergo there is neither of them to be beleued VVhich forme of argument serued the Arians against the consubstātiall vnitie of God the father his sonne our Sauiour It helped the Anabaptistes against the baptisme of infantes it was profitable to Heluidius against the perpetuall virginitie of Gods mother and it helpeth all pluckers downe but it neuer serueth a buylder The vanity whereof is so well knowen that I will not stande to talke thereof namely seeing it hath no place in our cause for which we haue brought diuers scriptures all construed by most learned fathers for that sense and some so euident that they droue our aduersaries to the open deniall of the holy canonicall scripture 2 What grounde or confidence of thinges not seene and yet hoped for our fayth hath it is not for infidells to iudge no more then for blinde men to iudge of collours And as for our negatiue argument it is stronger then your affirmatiue error can abide there of groweth the spight But when as you saye we frame our argument of the name of purgatory onely or prayers for