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A54947 A private conference between a rich alderman and a poor country vicar made publick wherein is discoursed the obligation of oaths which have been imposed on the subjects of England : with other matters relating to the present state of affairs. Pittis, Thomas, 1636-1687. 1670 (1670) Wing P2316; ESTC R26884 111,578 274

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a Vine fenced in not only by an immediate Providence but it s own Laws and Authority to enforce them are not only that which supports the branches but also defends the very root Now withdraw but the Obligation and sense of obedience and all the branches will desert the root the Foxes will devour their present fruit and the wild Bore will dig up the root and thus shall the whole languish and decay Ald. But cannot you prove some other way than from the nature of Government in the general that obedience is due to the Churches Laws This seems only to be composed of good words without significancy of an Obligation Vic. I had thought to discourse from Principles of Policy had been the surest way to convince you because your Age and Wisdom have called you to the degree of an Alderman by which sharing in Authority and Government you would from the view of your own experience collect the misery and destroying fate of the least disorder much more when disobedience dares put off her Mask and come abroad with open face hurling all into an Ataxy and Confusion when an embodied Society have agreed upon certain Laws and Principles by which they have both constituted and impowered a part of the whole to take care of the rest wherein particular interests are alwaies to submit to the preservation of the general commerce and universal welfare If the actings of particulars shall not only appear disorderly and mutinous but the very Magna Charta the foundation of the Government shall be undermined by a flat denial of any Obedience or Homage due it must needs dissolve the very Principles make the Empire crack with its weight and burden and reduce this Community into an universal Chaos Ald. But since your Office is Divinity and you are not called to any place of trust in the Government of the State it will as seems to me best become you to keep within your own Confines and tread only upon holy ground Vic. Why I hope your Worship does not think your Office prophane Ald. No Friend but I think you will prophane my Authority if you dare not withstanding all my advice be skill'd in the Principles of Policy and Government and lay down Rules of Confinement to your Superiours I must not suffer my sage ears so far to disparage my head as to endure to hear one to teach me mine own Trade Pray prove obedience to your Church some other way than from Rules of Policy for by this you seem to encroach upon us so far as not only to take away our Priviledges and Prerogative but defraud us of the very Arguments to defend us Vic. If your Worship please but to keep one eye open for the Churches Cause and let your other sleep to your own Interest I suppose I may in mine own habit without any damage at all to your Ears in a few words evince my duty of submission and obedience to the Church even from the second Topick mentioned that Obedience to it is our duty Ald. That I would have not only promised but performed for I have sometimes seen Reasons where the Stems have weighed more than the fruit Vic. Now your Worship seems to be pleasant a man would scarce expect such light wit from so grave an head but experience is that which makes men rich in all things And yet that I may remember your Worship of some thing which you already know I shall not trouble you with the ready submission though uneasie obedience by reason of those raging and persecuting thorns from Jewish Malice and Heathen Fury which continually like the Souldiers Spear in our Saviours Side tormented and grieved them unto the Christian Church in its Bishops and Representatives in its first plantation though not without the publick assaults of open Hereticks no more than free from the secret thrusts of those that seemed bosome Friends But I know you expect Scripture should be judge and prove what it seems you account a Problem For the Jews submission to their Sanhedrim I hope you will not trouble your self so much as to doubt Nor for the Apostles subjection to our Saviour as to him who had the Government upon his shoulders who received his Jurisdiction and Authority from the Father and was anointed from above Nor will you question I suppose the submission of the Christian Church to the Discipline as well as Doctrine of the Apostles whom Christ invested with the same Authority that he had received from his Father in relation to their Presidency and Jurisdiction over the Church in that Consecration of His As my Father sent me so send I you Only perhaps you may still doubt whether this Rule and Authority requiring submission and subjection to its Decrees was conveighed from the Apostles to others But you will have no cause to mistrust that neither when you shall seriously reflect upon the Epistles of the Apostles to the several Churches and more especially to those Angels and Bishops who were there intrusted with the Discipline and Government as well as feeding the Flock of Christ which he had purchased with his bloud Or if you will observe matter of fact and from thence draw the certainty of our Conclusion You may read St. Paul sending his Orders to Timothy and Titus giving them directions how to govern the Diocesses of Crete and Ephesus And it would be endless to enumerate all the Exhortations and Commands to obey our Church Rulers Obey them saies the Apostle that have the Rule over you and submit your selves for they watch for your souls as they that must give an account This last Clause plainly restrains it to the Bishops of Judea and therefore 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 saies St. Chrysostome But in the fifteenth of the Acts you have enough to silence all doubts of this nature and bring your Worship not only to Reverence but to a resignation of your self as to your Souls direction and guidance into the Churches hands and then you will the easier dispense with us for obeying that so chearfully and fideliously which we earnestly perswade others to a submission to Ald. I like this discourse indifferently well only have a care that your Church does not intrench upon the Authority of our Town and compel the Corporation to come and bow to your Altar Vic. I le warrant your Worship by the grace of God if you can but defend your selves from the Womens Tongues you shall not be offended with Church Musick nor knock your shins when you bow towards the Altar Ald. Come on then pleasant Mr. Vicar let us hear the conclusion of this matter you promised me something out of the fifteenth of the Acts. Vic. I did so Sir and by Gods help I shall perform it we find there that there was a great difference arose at Antioch about Circumcision for it seems there had come down men from Judea who taught the Brethren that except they were Circumcised after the manner of Moses they could not