the very supposition of a Law possible which may not some way or other be said to CONCERN Ecclesiastical Matters Presb. You take no notice how this Power is clogg'd with Limitations If they be found Unprofitable Unseasonable or to be abused by the People Indep Very good And if the Kirk shall think fit to find them so or so Pray'e What Remedy Bâ—…t their own Avowed Actions and Declarations are the Best Comments upon their own Principles Under King Iames in Scotland nothing was more ordinary then over-Ruling Acts of Parliament by the Acts of the Assembly Did they not erect a Counsel of the Church in Edenborough 1596. and take upon them to Convene Examine and Censure at pleasure such as they suspected to hold any Correspondence with certein Excommunicate Lords did they not also appoint to meet in Armes at the Tryal of them Nor did they think it enough to Rescind or supersede Acts of Parliâ—…ment and General Assâ—…mblies but People must be Quâ—…stion'd too for yielding Obedience to Acts of Parliament and of General Counsels under Colour of Unjust Laws Wee 'l close this particular with the Judgment of the Commissioners of the General Assembly of Scotland of May 5. 1648. The Authority of Parliament is one thing an Act of Parliament another thing We do still acknowledg their Authority when we obey not This or That Act. And whatsoever be the TREASON of Impugning the Authority of PARLIAMENâ—… It can be no Treason to obey GOD rather then MAN Neither did the General Assembly of Glasgow 1638. and such as were active for the Covenant at That time commit any Treason when they Impugned Episcopacy and Pâ—…rch Articles although ratify'd and strengthen'd by Acts of PARLIAMENT and standing LAWS then Unrepealed Presb. When we have once gotten Power into our hands we are all too apt to abuse it But I cannot yet perswade my self that the Root of these Practises is to be found in their Principles Their Books of Discipline are Publick and no Government would ever entertein it if there were such danger in it Indep How was the Covenant entertein'd or who would have dream'd of any harm in a League for the Preservation and Defence of the King's Majestie 's Person and Authority And yet the Presbyterian Interpretation and Salvo of Subordinating his Majesties SAFETY and PRESERVATION to the Defence of the TRUE RELIGION immediately following and the Kirks assuming to Themselves the Judgment of that Religion brought both King and Church to Destruction Nor can you choose but Observe the Holy Discipline and Covenant to be both of a Stile and both of a Design Their Claim concerning Ecclesiastical Matters hooks in all Laws and In the Defence of the true Religion They usurp an Authority over all Magistrates This Discipline at the best is but a Worm at the Root of Civil Government Wheresoever it comes the Secular Power hangs the head and droops upon it and never thrives after But to Sovereign Princes a man might say of it as God said to Adam of the Apple In the day you eat thereof you shall dye the death Now as it is manifestly destructive of Law in the very Foundations of it to carry an Appeal from all Temporal Governours and Constitutions to the Scepter and Sentence of Christ sitting upon his TRIBUNAL in the PRESBYTERY the Language of Beza himself so likewise have they their Preparatory Artifices for Obstructing the Execution of Law and for the Weakening and Distracting of a Government before they enter upon the Great Work of Dissolving it And this is effected by the Trojan Horse as one calls it of their Excommunication that carries all the Instruments and Engines of Publique Ruine and Confusion in the belly of it By Virtue of this Device they do not only impose upon all Ministers and Courts of Justice but they may when they please as Hooker observes send out their Writs of Surcease and fetch in the whole Business of Westminster-Hall to the Bar of the Consistory Or at the fairest according to Beza's Distinction if they allow the Civil Iudg to try the Fact as mere Civile yet de Iure Controverso Ecclesiasticum Synâ—…drium constat Respondisse The Church was to determine in matter of Law and the Civil Magistrate after That to pronounce Sentence according to That Decision Briefly Beza gives the Presbytery the same Power under the Gospel which was Exercised by the Synagogue under the Law But now to the Point of your Excommunication and to shew you in what manner it is apply'd to hinder the Execution of Law and to obstruct Civil Iustice. By One Clause of your Discipline You may Abrogate what Laws you please concerning Ecclesiastical Matters And by Another The Minister is Authorized to handle External things for Conscience Cause So that your Authoritâ—… is without Controul in Ecclesiastical Matters and so is your Liberty of handling Civil Matters as Ecclesiastical Upon which Bottom was founded an Assertion not long since mainteined at the Savoy i. e. That the Command of a most Lawful Act is sinful if That Act commanded may prove to any One a Sin per Accidens Now if the Kirk shall think fit to Abrogate a Law as nothing more frequent whoever shall presume to Execute That Law is sure to be Excommunicate And the Supreme Magistrate himself is no less lyable to Church Censure for not Executing That Sentence then the Inferior Magistrate was for his Original Disobedience The Bishop of St. Andrews in 1586 was Excommunicate for Advising King Iames to a Declaration against Certein Fugitive Ministers that were denounced Rebels and Contriving the Statutes of 1584. touching The Kings Authority in Ecclesiastical Causes Knox is for Excommunication in all Crimes that are Capital by the Law of God and in effect for the Churches Tryal of the very Fact It was not for nothing that the Two Houses held the Assembly so long in Play upon this Point and in Despight of all Importunities to the Contrary kept the staffe still in their own Hands and reserved to Themselves the Ultimate Appeal in Cases of Excommunication Presb Was it not rather the Work of the Independents Who to say the Truth were as much against any Settlement at all as against That And against the very Convening of the Assembly it self Indep And they had done the State a good Office if they had totally hindred it But this is beside our Business We have said enough as to the Dangerous Influence of Presbytery upon the Security of his Majesty and the Law It remains now to be considered with a respect to the Rights and Liberties of the People SECT XXX The Question of Toleration betwixt Presbytery and Independency Debated with a Regard to the Rights Liberties and Advantages of the PEOPLE Indep YOU see how it is with Kings Parliaments and Laws under the Dominion of Presbytery We are now to look into the Condition of the Nobility Gentry Commonalty and of the Presbyterial Clergy it self under
Convention Look now a little into the Scotch Affairs and observe the Growth of the Non-Conformists Demands from one thing to another till in the End by virtue of what the King Granted them they possest themselves of all the Rest. In their Tumults says his Majesty they complein'd only of the Service Book In their Petition exhibited to the Counsel they complein'd of the Service-Book and Canons In their Covenant they complein of and Abjure the Five Articles of Perth although Establish't first by a General Assembly and Then by Parliament After This they complein of the High Commission And Then of Prelates Sitting in Civil Judicatories Hereupon His Majesty Commissions Marquis Hamilton with full Power and Authority to Conclude and Determine all such Things as should be found for the Good Quietness and Peace of that Kingdom Directing him also to take the mildest Course that might be for the Calming of those Commotions And what Effect had this Peaceable Inclination of His Majesty upon the Covenanters but to blow them up into more Seditious and bolder Practises against the King's Authority and the Publique Peace They pursue their Demands and Clamour for a Free General Assembly and a Parliament His Majesty gives them all their Askings Indicts a Free General Assembly and a Parliament Dischâ—…rges the Service-Book the Canons High-Commission The urâ—…ing of the Five Articles of Perth Commands the Subscribing of the Confession of Faith and the Band thereto annexed in the very Form which they pretended to Impose And offers them an Act of Indemnity for what was past In all which Condescentions the King's Patience and Mercy only served to heighten and confirm those Men in their Undertaking and to expose his Royal Dignity to Contempt In the conclusion the King had so far gratified their Importunities that they had nothing left to Quarrel upon but His Majesties refusal to Abolish Episcopacy and to admit the Authority of their Lay-Elders From hence they brake out into open Rebellion and when the King had them directly at his Mercy upon the Interview of the two Armies near Berwick such was his Tenderness that upon their Supplication for a Treaty he Trusted them again and Concluded a Pacification whereof the Covenanters observ'd not so much as One Article Upon his Return to London His Majesty as is elswhere observed passes the Triennial Bill Abolishes the Star-Chamber and High Commission Court Passes an Act for the Continuance of the Parliament Not to insist upon the several other Concessions concerning Ship-money Forests and Stannary Courts Tunnage and Poundage Knighthood c. Now in Requital of these Benefits the Faction Claps up and Prosecutes his Majesties Friends Prefers and Enlarges his Enemies Rewards the Scots Entertains their Commissioners Votes Them their Dear Brethren for Invading Us Calls in all Books and Proclamations against them They take away the Bishops Votes Impose a Protestation upon the People Take away the Earl of Strafford's Life Charge Twelve of the Bishops with Treason Declare the King's Proclamations to be False Scandalous and Illegal Keep his Majesty out of his own Towns and Seize his Arms and Ammunition They present Him with Nineteen Propositions for the Resignation of his Royal Authority They Vote a General and Raise an Army against him They Usurp the Power of the Militia and give the King Battel Levy Moneys and Declare the Queen Guilty of Treason After all These Usurpations upon the Civil Power They are put to 't to bring the Cause of Religion once again upon the Stage They enter into a Covenant and call in the Scots again They Abolish the Common-Prayer secure the Person of the King Share the Revenues of the Church and Crown They Sequester Banish and Imprison his Majesties Adherents and in the Conclusion Sell Depose and Murder their Soveraign This was the Fruit of that Pious and Unfortunate Prince his Clemency and Indulgence Now to bring the Instance home to the present Times What could be more Pious Gracious or Obliging then His Majesties Declaration concerning Ecclesiastical Affairs in Favour of the Non-Conformists All that was possible for the King to do in Consistence with Conscience Honour and the Peace of his Dominions His Majesty has therein given them a frank Assurance of with their Lives and Estates over and above in the Act of Oblivion And are they one jote the Quieter for all This No but the Worse for no sooner was the King's Tenderness in That Particular made Publique but the Generality even of those that had lately Entred into a Regular and Dutiful Compliance with the Orders of the Church started into a new Revolt which proves sufficiently the Benefit and Necessity of a strict Rule and the hazzard of a Toleration For rather then abide the Penalty of the Act they could Conform but upon the least Glimpse of a Dispensation they Relâ—…pse into a Schism Neither do I find that they were less Troublesom before the Act of Uniformity when they Preach'd at Randome then they have been since Nor to say the Truth that they have much more Cause of Compleint Now then they had Then For what are they the worse for a Penalty that is never Executed But if you will have a True Measure of their Moderation and Good Nature I pray'e take notice of their Proceedings upon His Majesties Commission for the Review of the Book of Common-Prayer We will appoint says His Majesty in his Declaration concerning Ecclesiastical Affairs an Equal Number of Learned Divines of Both Perswasions to Review the same and to make such ALTERATIONS as shall be thought most NECESSARY So that the Alterations were to be agreed upon by BOTH PARTIES and found likewise to be NECESSARY Now instead of Alterations joyntly agreed upon They Publish a Complete Liturgy of their own indeed a New Directory but under the Title of The REFORMATION of the Liturgie which in all their Books signifies ABOLITION Give me the favour next to observe upon some of their NECESSARY Alterations They have turn'd WEDDED Wife into MARRIED DOEST THOU Believe into DO YOU Believe All this I STEDFASTLY Believe into All this I UNFEIGNEDLY Believe These are some of the Important Scruples that are cast into the Balance against the Unity of the Church and the Peace of the Kingdom What is This but to make Sport with Authority and Conscience Laws must be Suspended Princes Vilified and Importun'd because forsooth the Godly Party may not be Govern'd by Laws of their own making Nay by Words of their own chusing too So that we are like to have a Schism for Syllables as well as for Ceremonies For what is the Difference betwixt WEDDED and MARRIED but that the One wears the Stamp of the Law-Makers and the Other of the Law-Menders Is it not now evident that they are the worse for good usage And that they have ever been so You see the Effects of keeping to a Rule in Queen Elizabeth and King Iames And we have since felt to our Cost
Toleration DISCUSS'D IN TWO DIALOGUES I. Betwixt a Conformist and a Non-Conformist Laying open the Impiety and Danger of a General Liberty II. Betwixt a Presbyterian and an Independent Concluding upon an Impartial Examination of their Respective Practises and Opinions in Favour of the Independent Vaevobis Hypocritae LONDON Printed by E. C. and A. C. for Henry Brome at the Gun in Ludgate-street at the West End of St. Paul's 1670. TO THE READER The CONTENTS SECTION I. UNIVERSAL TOLERATION too Wide and Unlawful Page 3 SECT II. LIMITED TOLERATION too Narrow and Disobliging to the Excluded Party 15 SECT III. No Toleration to be admitted but with the Allowance of the Chief Magistrate 18 SECT IV. The BOUNDS of Toleration And the Error of making Fundamentals and Non Fundamentals to be the Measure of it 23 SECT V. The Common Arguments for TOLERATION Examined 29 SECT VI. TOLERATION undermines the Law and causes Confusion both in Church and State Page 36 SECT VII The Non-Conformist's Plea for Toleration upon REASON OF STATE 43 SECT VIII The Non-Conformist's Plea for Toleration from the MERITS of the Party 52 SECT IX The Non-Conformist's Plea for Toleration from the Innocence and Modesty of their OPINIONS and PRACTISES 56 SECT X. The Non-Conformists demand a Toleration which is neither INTELLIGIBLE in the Whole nor PRACTICABLE so far as it may be Understood 78 SECT XI The Non-Conformists demand a Toleration for No Body knows WHOM or WHAT 84 SECT XII The Conjunct Importunity of the Non-Conformists for a Toleration is not grounded upon Matter of CONSCIENCE 87 SECT XIII The Conjunct Importunity of the Non-Conformists for a Toleration is a Manifest CONFEDERACY 96 SECT XIV The Non-Conformists Joynt-Pretenses FOR A Toleration overthrown by the Evidence of their Joynt-Arguments Professions and Practises AGAINST it 114 SECT XV. The Non-Conformists JOYNT COMPLAINTS of Hard Measure and Persecution confronted with their own JOYNT-PROCEEDINGS 120 SECT XVI The Non-Conformists tell us That Liberty of Conscience is the Common Interest of This Kingdom but REASON and EXPERIENCE tell us the CONTRARY 128 SECT XVII This Kingdom has been still the Worse for Indulging the Non-Conformists and the Party never the Better Which evinces that UNIFORMITY is the True Interest of This Government and Not Toleration 148 SECT XVIII The Party of Scrupulous and Conscientious Non-Conformists is neither NUMEROUS nor DANGEROUS Pag. 167 SECT XIX The Non-Conformists Appeal from the Government and Discipline of the Church of England to the Judgment and Practise of the Reformed Churches BEYOND THE SEAS Examined and Submitted to Censure 172 SECT XX. The Non-Confotmists Exceptions to Our Publique Way of Worship found Guilty of Great IMPIETY and ERROR 194 SECT XXI Whatsoever God hath left INDIFFERENT is the Subject of HUMANE POWER 217 SECT XXII No End of Controversie without a FINAL and UNACCOMPTABLE JUDGE from whose Sentence there shall be no Appeal 226 SECT XXIII The Three Great Judges of Mankind are GOD MAGISTRATES and CONSCIENCE 238 SECT XXIV The Church of England charges the Non-Conformists with SCHISM and the Non-Conformists charge those of the Church with SCANDAL The Matter is taken into Debate Page 256 Toleration Discuss'd betwixt a Presbyterian and an Independent SECT XXV An Enquiry upon a Short and Impartial Survey of the Rise Progress and Issue of the War raised by the Two Houses in 1641. Whether were more Criminal The PRESBYTERIANS or the INDEPENDENTS 271 SECT XXVI What Party soever DEMANDS a Toleration and yet Mainteins that it is Destructive both of Church and State to GRANT one Is an ENEMY to BOTH 292 SECT XXVII In Case of a Toleration or Indulgence to be Granted Whether has the fairer Preten se to it The CLASSICAL Way of the PRESBYTERIANS or the CONGREGATIONAL Way of the INDEPENDENTS in Respect of their Form of Government Page 298 SECT XXVIII Whether may be better Tolerated in This Kingdom The Presbyterians or the Independents in Respect of their PRINCIPLES and Ordinary PROCEEDINGS Debated First With Relation to his Majesties PERSON and AUTHORITY 306 SECT XXIX The Question of Toleration betwixt Presbytery and Independency Debated with regard to the Foundation and Execution of the LAW 318 SECT XXX The Question of Toleration betwixt Presbytery and Independency Debated with a Regard to the Rights Liberties and Advantages of the PEOPLE 327 Toleration Discuss'd By way of Dialogue betwixt a CONFORMIST AND A NON-CONFORMIST Conformist LIberty of Conscience or No Liberty of Conscience is the Question What is Conscience Non-conformist Conscience is Iudicium Hominis de Semetipso prout subjicitur Iudicio Dei The Judgment that a Man makes of Himself and his Actions with reference to the future Judgment of God Or otherwise It is An Ability in the Understanding of Man by a Reflex Act to Judge of Himself in all he does as to his Acceptance or Rejection with God Rutherford makes it to be A Power of the Practical Understanding according to which the Man is obliged and directed to give Judgment of Himself that is Of His State and Condition and of all his Actions Inclinations Thoughts and Words C. If this be Conscience Then Liberty of Conscience is A Liberty of a Man's Iudging of Himself and his Actions with reference to the future Iudgment of God N. C. Right But then he is bound likewise to Practise according to that Judgment and To Worship God according to the Light and Understanding which he hath of What is that Worship which is Acceptable with him in Matter and Manner and not otherwise C. So that your Liberty of Conscience is now come to Liberty of Practise Indeed I could wish that the Advocates for Liberty would be a little more Candid in this business They take wonderful Pains many of Them to prove That Conscience cannot be forc'd It is out of the Reach of Humane Power God never appointed any Iudge of it Shall any Man pretend to make me believe That which I cannot believe And the like Pressing the Argument as if That were the very Pinch of the Case which is just Nothing at all to the Point in Controversie It is obvious to Common Reason that This Suggestion cannot but create very dangerous and unquiet Thoughts in the People For if they be denied Liberty of Conscience in the plain and honest English of it They suffer under the most Barbarous and Ridiculous Persecution that ever yet appear'd upon the face of the Earth But on the other side If their claim be stretch't to Liberty of Practise It seems not only unreasonable but utterly Inconsistent both with Christianity it self and the Publique Peace SECTION I. UNIVERSAL TOLERATION too Wide and Unlawful C. LIberty of Conscience as you have stated it is An Universal Toleration for People to say and do what they please under the Warrant and Pretext of Conscience N. C. That is to say In Matters properly the Subject of Conscience with Reference to the future Judgment of God C. By This Rule Pagans are
N. C. How do you know but you may persecute God in the Conscience of a True Believer as St. Paul did before his Conversion C. If I may turn your own Reason against your self I may do it and yet be true to God if in so doing I am true to my Conscience But still you confound Conscience and Practise whereas the Civil Magistrate pretends to no sort of Authority or Dominion over the Conscience And your Objection is of as little force any other way For the Magistrate is no more Infallible in One Case then in Another and may as well Dread the Persecuting of God in the Conscience of a Murderer or any other Criminal as in That of an Heretick N. C. I think we have enough But it may be This Toleration will please us better in the Exercise then it does in the Speculation C. What Hinders then but we may try it that way too SECT VI. TOLERATION undermines the Law and causes Confusion both in Church and State N. C. WHy may not a Toleration do as well here as in France C. How do you mean Would you have his Majesty of Great-Britain Tolerate Roman-Catholicks here as his Most Christian Majesty does Protestants in France N. C. You speak as if None were to be Tolerated but Papists C. Not I truly But so it must be if you 'l have your Toleration after the French Fashion Can you shew me that any Non-Conforming Roman Catholicks are Tolerated There Nay Or that those of the Religion do Subdivide or break Communion among Themselves Such an Instance might stand you in some stead N. C. But is it not More To Tolerate a Forreign Râ—…ligion then to Indulge your own To permit Freedom of Worship to those you repute Hereticks then to Relate a little towards your Orthodox Friends C. The Question is not in Matter of Religion whether to Favour Sound Faith or Heresie but in Reason of State whether is more Advisable to Tolerate the Exercise of quite a Different Religion Or a Separation from the Church-Order Establish't Alas In several Religions and especially where the Professors are divided by mutual Prejudice and Principles of strong Opposition as in this Case too much they are There 's no great fear of gathering and engaging Parties to the Disturbance of the Publick Peace There is a great Gulf as he says betwixt them And Men do not usually start from one Extreme to another at a Leap But to Tolerate One Church within Another is to Authorize a Dissolution of the Government both Ecclesiastical and Civil And the Defection is the more Dangerous because it is almost Insensible As many as will leave you may and every Dissenter is double One lost to the Government Another gain'd to the Schism Which will quickly bring down Authority to the Mercy of the People In fine By Toleration a Kingdom is divided against ie self and câ—…nnot stand N. C. When you have taken Breath Do me the Favour to make out what you say C. The Demand of a Toleration is in it self the Condemnation of an Establish't Law and not without hard Reflexions neither both upon the Equity and Prudence of the Law makers So that at first Dash here is the Law unhing'd For If any One Law may le question'd by the Multitude The Consequence reaches to All the Rest. N. C. We do not question either the Prudence of the Law-Makers Or the General Equity of the Constitution Only where God hath not given Us Consciences suitable to the Rule We humbly desire such a Rule as may Comply with Our Consciences C. Would you have a Law that shall Comply with all Consciences God Almighty Himself never made a Law that pleased all People N. C. It would be well then that you should bring all Men to the same Mind before you force them to the same Rule C. But it would be ill if there should be no Rule at all till we had found out One that all People should say Amen to N. C. We do not ask the Vacating of a Law but the Widening of it C. Why then you ask a worse thing for it were much better for the Publique totally to Vacate a Good Law then to suffer a Contempt even upon a Bad One. If the Reason of such or such a Law be gone Repeal the Law But to let the Obligation fall and the Law stand seems to be a Soloecism in Government You should consider that Laws are not made for Particulars but framed with a Regard to the Community And They ought to stand Firm and Inexorable If once they come to Hearken to Popular Expostulations and to side with By-Interests the Reverence of Government is shaken N. C. But where 's the Danger of Receding from that Inexorable Strictness C. Here it lies It implies an Assent both to the Equity of the Complaint and to the Reason of the Opinion in Question If not also a Submission to Importunity and Clamor And among many Ill Consequences It draws This after It for One. If any One sort of People may be allow'd to challenge any One Law All other Sorts have an Equal Right of Complaining against All or any of the Rest. So that a Toleration thus Extorted does not only unsettle the Law but ministers Argument to the Pretense of Popular Reformation To say Nothing of the Credit it gives to the Disobedient and Discouragement to those that keep their Stations Beside what may be reflected upon the Magistrate for Instability of Counsels Another Exception may be This How shall we distinguish betwixt Faction and Conscience If it prove to be the former A Toleration does the Business to their Hand Nay Suppose it the latter and that hitherto there is Nothing but pure Conscience in the Case What Security have We that it shall not yet embroil us in Mutiny and Sedition Will not the Tolerated Party become a Sanctuary for all the Turbulent Spirits in the Nation Shall they not have their Meetings and Consultations without Controul And when they shall see the Law Prostituted to the Lusts of the Multitude The Order of the Government dissolved and the Government it self left naked and supportless What can We Expect shall be the End of these things but Misery and Confusion Nor is it all that a Toleration is of manifest Hazard to us But it is That too without any sort of Benefit in Return Shall we be the Quieter for it No. One Grant shall become a President for Another And so shall One Importunity for Another Till we are brought in the End either to a General License Or to a General Tumult No matter Which The Rejected Party will be sure to mind you that They are as good Subjects and have as good Claims as Others that are Tolerated upon which disobliging score there falls an Odium and Envy upon the Government I think a Man shall not need the Spirit of Prophesie to foretel these Events For a Toleration does naturally Evirtuate the Law and lead to
by the Oracles of your Cause Nay and several of Them at present Eager Asserters of the Equity of a Toleration And what has been the Fruit of These Unchristian-Lectures but the Subversion both of Church and State And the Murder of a Pioâ—… and Gracious Prince under Pretence of Doing God and the Kingdom Good Service N. C. These are Actions I confess not to be warranted But yet my Charity perswades me that a great part of the Mischief they did proceeded rather from Necessity then Inclination C. Will ye see then what they did afterward when they were at Liberty to do what they listed They had no sooner Murdered the Father but immediately They made it Death to Proclaim the Son They abolish't Kingly Government Sold the Crown-Lands Declared it Treason to deny the Supremacy of the Commons Nulled all Honours and Titles granted by the King since 41. Made Scotland One Commonwealth with England c. Have They now kept any better Touch with the Liberty and Property of the Subjects Let their Proceedings Witness for Them As their Tax upon the Fifth and Twentieth Part. Excise upon Flesh Victuals and Salt A new Excise upon Allom Copperas Monmouth-Caps Hops Saffron Starch c. A Loan of 66666 l. 13 s. 4 d. for Supply of the Scots An Assessment for the Maintâ—…nance of the Army The House of Peers Abolish't and a Monethly Tax of 90000 l. for the Army A Monthly Tax of 120000 l. An Imposition upon Coal A Monthly Assessment of 60000 l. Not to Clog the Discourse with over many Particulars We 'l see next What They have Done toward the Moderating of the Power of Bishops and the Removal of Unnecessary Ceremoniâ—…s The Arch-Bishop of Canterbury Suspendâ—…d and his Tâ—…mporalties Sequestred Monuments of Superstition Demolish't That is in short an Ordinance for Sacriledge The Book of Common-Prayer laid aside and the Directory Commanded instead of it Arch-Bishops and Bishops Abolish't and their Lands settled in Trustees Their Lands Exposed to Sale Festivals Abolish't Deans and Chapters c. Abolish't And their Lands to be Sold. This is Your Way Of MODERATING the Power of Bishops and of REMOVING UNNECESSARY CEREMONIES And This is the History in Little of the Opinions and Practises of your Party Drawn from matter of Fact Provable to a Syllable and Deliver'd without any Amplification of the Matter N C. Ill things have been done there 's no Question on 't But they have been done by Ill Men And 't is not a Toleration of Faction that We pretend to but a Toleration of Conscience C Which Toleration upon farther search will be found to be a meer Utopian Project or Wâ—…rse SECT X. The Non-Conformists demand a Toleration which is neither INTELLIGIBLE in the Whole nor PRACTICABLE so far as it may be Understood C. IT makes a great Noise in the World The Out-cry of the Non-Conformists for Toleration Indalgence Liberty of Conscience Comprehension c. Let them but set it down in a Clear Practicable and Intelligible Proposition and I dare say They shall have it for the Asking N. C. We do Propound That Reformed Christianity may be settled in its DUE LATITUDE C. By Reformed Christianity I suppose you intend the Protestant Religion But your DUE LATITUDE is of a Suspicious Intimation Do not you remember a Declaration of the Two Houses April 9. 1642. for a DUE and Necessary Reformation of the Government and Liturgy of the Church And Nothing to be taken away either in the One or in the Other but What should be found Evil and justly Offensive Or at the least Unnecessary and Burdensom This Due Reformation ended as you may remember in a Total Extirpation of Both Liturgy and Government And We see Nothing to the Contrary but Your DUE LATITUDE may signifie the very same thing with Their DUE REFORMATION Pray be a little Clearer N. C. Then to put all out of doubt I would in the first place have An Establish't Order Secondly A Limited Toleration Thirdly A Discreet Connivence The Parties Comprehended in the Establishment to be of Importance in the Publique Interest and of Principles Congruous to such Stated Order in the Church as the Stability of the Commonwealth requires I Would have the Toleration to Extend to Those that are of Sound Belief and Goâ—…d Life Yet have taken in some Principles of Church-Government less Congruous to National Settlemâ—…nt And for Connivence It is to be remitted to Discretion C. What is all This now but an Universal Toleration in a Disguise Some to be Comprehended within the Establishment Others to be Tolerated And the Rest to be Connived at Again Your Establishment is to be of a Latitude to take in several sorts of Dissenters under such and such Qualifications They must be of Importance in the Publique Interest and of Principles Congruous to such Stated Order in the Church as the Stability of the Commonwealth requires Ask the Dissenters Themselves concerning their own Qualifications and They 'l tell you that they are all of them of Important Interests and of Congruouâ—… Principles So that this way you are still upon an Universal Toleration But on the Other Side if You Consult Authority about Your Comprehension The Preface to the Act for Uniformity will tell You that the Establishment is as wide already as the Peace of the Nation will well bear If you 'l Acquiesce in This Iudgment the Case is determined to Our Hand If you Appeal from it You cast your selves out of the Pale of your own Project because of your Principles Incongruous to the Reason of Government N. C. But it appears to us that the Stated Order of the Church may be widen'd without any Check to the Stability of Government C. And what will This avail You if it appears otherwise to the Governours Themselves If They may be Iudges the Strife is at an End but if you think to help your selves by Translating the Iudgment to the People After that Day let us never expect any other Law then the Dictate of the Rabble It removes the very Foundations of the Government and Carries Us headlong into Anarchy and Confusion without Redemption If a Man should ask You now about Your Importance in Publique Interest First as to the Interest it self Whether you mean an Interest of Raising Men and Moneys Or What Other Next as to the Degree and Measure of your Importance How Many Regiments of the One and How many Millions of the Other makes up that Importance Would you not take Time for an Answer And then We are as much at a Loss about Your Such Stated Order in the Church as the Stability of the Common-wealth requires You give Us No Satisfaction at all Wherein the Stability of the Commonwealth consists Or What Stated Order in the Church that Stability requires But here is a kind of a Moot-Point cast in betwixt Authority
were misâ—…ed by the Example may be set right again by the Retraction and Repentance This Conclusion pronounces All Those of the old stamp that abused the People formerly under Colour of Conscience and are now at Work again upon the same Pretext without a Publique Recantation to be in a State of Impenitency and gives Us reasonably to presume that if their Consciences can Swallow and Digest a Rebellion There is no great Danger of their being Choak'd with a Ceremony Another Thing is This You do not plead for Particular Iudgments In which Case a Plea of Conscience may be allowed But every Man urges the Equity in Effect of a Toleration for all the Rest. In which Number You your selves do severally and jointly acknowledge that there are a great many People of Insociable and Intolerable Principles such as in Conscience are not to be admitted And yet herein also You profess to be guided by Impulses of Tenderness and Piety although in Opposition to the whole Course of your former Declarations and Proceedings that rise up in Judgment against You. N. C. If you grant that there may be a Plea for Particulars I shall not much trouble my self about Generals C. That Point shall come on in due time But let us look a little further yet into the General Cause for if it be not Conscience it is Confederacy SECT XIII The Conjunct Importunity of the Non-Conformists for a Toleration is a Manifest CONFEDERACY C. THis appears First from the Method of their Proceedings Secondly from the Natural Prospect and Tendency of that Method Thirdly from the Nature and Quality of their Demands and Arguments Fourthly from the Way and Manner of their Addresses and Applications Lastly from their Agreement in Matters of Dangeroâ—…s Consequence upon the Peace of the Government As to their Method The Non-Conformists of This Age â—…read in the very steps of their Predecessors and This you may observe throughout the whole History of Them even from the first time that ever the Pretence of Popular Reformation set foot in his Majesties Dominions unto This Instant This is not a Place for a Deduction of Particulars at length But a Touch from Point to Point will not be much amiss Wherefore if you please Give me a Brief Accompt of the Non-Conformists First What kind of People they are Secondly What It is They would have Thirdly What will the Kingdom be the better for Granting their Desires Fourthly What are their Grievances as the Case stands with them at present Fifthly What are they for Number and Resolution N. C. They are a People Zealous of Religion Pa. 43. An Intelligent Sober sort of Mâ—…n and Numerous among all Ranks P. 25. Peaceable and Useful in the Commonwealth Sound in the Faith Men of Conscience Evident Opposers of all Errors Pernicious to the Souls of Men and of an Evil Aspect upon the Publique Peace C. Very Good And were not the Conspirators that Seiz'd King Iames at Ruthnen 1582. as much as all This amounts to If You will believe either Themselves or the Assembly at Edinburgh in their behalf The Reforming Non-Conformists under Queen Elizabeth were Unreprovable before all Men Her Majesties most Loyal Subjects and God's Faithful Servants Most Worthy Faithful and Peinful Ministers Modest Watchful Knowing in the Scriptures and of Honest Conversation Learned and Godly says the Admonitioner Pa. 25. And Martin Senior calls them The Strength of Our Land and the Sinew of her Majesties Government The Scotch Covenanters in 1638. out-did All This for Zeal to his Majesties Person and Authority The True Religion Liberties and Laws of the Kingdom And the Two Houses at Westminster In 1642. come not behind Them in their Professions for the Defence and Maintenance of the True Religion The King's Person Honour and Estate and the Iust Rights and Liâ—…erties of the Subject Here 's Your Character Now to Your Dâ—…mands What is it You would have N. C. A Reformation of Church-Government Liturgy and Ceremonies A Bearing with weak Consciences and A Relaxation of the Prescribed Uniformity C. And This you will find to have been the Constant Pretence of the Non-Conformists if you Consult their Story from One End to the Other Not to let loose the Golden Reins of Discipline and Government in the Church But to Unburthen the Consciences of Men of Needless and Superstitious Ceremonies Suppress Innovations and Settle a Preaching Ministry c. Put the Case now that you had your Asking What would the Kingdom be the better for it N. C. It will be the better for the King Church Nobility and Gentry And there is No Nation under Heaven wherein such an Indulgence or Toleration as is desired would be more Welcome Usâ—…ful Acceptable Or more Subservient to Tranquillity Trade Wealth and Peace C. Reformation no Enemy to Her Majâ—…sty and the State is the very Title of a Desperate Libel Printed 1590. against Both. And the Humble Motioner tells You that it is for the Advantage of the Queen Clergy Nobility and Commonalty That the Wealth and Honour of the Realm will be Encreased by it c. This was the Stile too of Our Reformers in 1642. The Securing of the Publique Peace Safety and Happiness of the Realm And the Laying the Foundation of more Honour and Happiness to his Majesty then ever was Enjoy'd by any of his Royal Predecessors Now speak your Grievances N. C. We are Excommunicated Outlawed Imprison'd Our Families Starved and Beggâ—…r'd P. 8. Proceeded against with Outward Punishments Pecuniary and Corporal Nay Death it self P. 9. And all this while Trade languishes Rents fall Money scarce P. 26. Never a greater Separation Never a more General Dissatisfaction P. 27. C. Pray'e say Was it ever better since Non-Conformists came into the World Was not King Iames a Favourer of the Enemies of God's Truth and of Dissolute Persons A Discountenancer of Godly Ministers A Promise-Breaker to the Church and a Perverter of the Laws Insomuch that No man could be assured of his Lands and Life Was it any better even under the Celebrated Government of Queen Elizabeth There were Citations Degradings and Deprivations Some in the Marshalsey Some in the White-Lion Some in the Gateâ—…house at Westminster Others in the Counter Or in the Clinke Or in Bride-well Or in Newgate How many Good Mens Deaths have the Bishops been the Cause of How many have they driven to leave the Ministry and live by Physique Or to leave their Countrey Poor Men have been miserably handled with Revilings Deprivations Imprisonments Banishments and Out of This Realm they have all the best Reformed Churches through Christendom against them If This Persecution be not provided for great Trouble will come of it How your Party demean'd Themselves toward the Late King of Blessed Memory in the matter of Calumny and Reproach You may read at large in that Grand and Infamous Libel The Remonstrance of
be Reconciled Shall we not have Nem and Monstrous Opinions Propagated daily And will it not be every Man's business to Advance the Credit and Authority of his own Party Where is the Bond of Peace in this Exercise and Latitude of Dissention The Unity of the Church in this Multiplicity of Professions Which is the True Religion among so many divided and contradictory Pretenses to it Or rather Is there any Religion at all where there is neither Christian Charity Stability of Principles Reverence or Agreement in God's Worship N. C. I hope you will not deny the Protestant Interest to be the Interest of the True Religion And undoubtedly the bringing of the Protestants into an Union among Themselves is the Advantage of every Protestant State and of Protestancy it self C. Past all Dispute and an Uniformity of Worship brings them into that Union Which is never to be attained while the World endures by a Liberty of Conscience How was the Protestant Interest I beseech you United in the late Dissolution of Government When Every Man did that which was Right in his own Eyes Examine the Story well and you will find Reason to believe that the Church of Rome has gain'd more upon Us since That Unsettlement of Ecclesiastical Order then perchance from the first hour of the Reformation even unto That very Day For Liberty of Conscience did no less bring a Civil War upon the Protestant Religion then the Pretended Liberty of the Subject did upon the State It turned every Man's Hand against his Brother Every Man had a Religiâ—…n to Himself and every Man's Conscience as I told you was his Bible and We are still to presume that like Causes will produce like Effects It is also remarquable that the lowdest and boldest Declamers against the Orders of the Church proved likewise the most Pragmatical and Audacious Invaders of the Civil Peace The Antecedent Schism serving only for a Prologue to the Ensuing Sedition N. C. This Arraignment of their supposed Principles about Government may haply proceed upon Mistake There is Reason to think that the many late Disputes about Prerogative and Liberty are Controversiae ortae non primae that they had their Rise from something else which lies at the Bottom C. This is but Peradventure I Peradventure No. For if a Man may haply be in a Mistake he may haply too be in the Right I will grant ye likewise that the Disputes about Prerogative and Liberty had their Rise from somewhat else which lay at the Bottom That is to say It was not Purity of Religion Reformation of the Liturgie Retrenching the Exorbitant Power of Bishops or Scruple of Conscience as pretended that wrought the Subversion of Church and State but it was the Design which lay at the Bottom of Carrying on the Great Work of Overturning the Government under Countenance of that Plausible Imposture and Disguise N. C. Inclinations and Interests more then Speculative Opinions will be found to have born the Sway and Caused those Active Motions on the One Hand and the Other These Dogmata or Problems about Obedience and Government do but little where Mens Affections and Concernments do not give them Spirit and Uigor C. It is most Certain that Problems draw no Blood and We do not read that ever any Man's Throat was cut with a Speculation or a Syllogism But yet Inclinations and Interests you allow may do much towards Mischief So that I have what I desire if I am but able to make it out that Liberty of Conscience will most indubitably beget strong Inclinations in the People to shake off the Yoke of Government and that they will not want specious Appearances of Interest so to Do. First The Servants of Iesus Christ as the Non-Conformists peculiarly stile themselves have This Advantage of the Subjects of Temporal Princes that They serve the Better Master and the Dignity of their Spiritual Profession supersedes the Duty of their Political Allegeance So often as they shall think Good to stand upon That Privilege By Virtue of which Prerogative they do not only Claim an Exemption from the Obligation and Reach of Humane Laws But a Commission also and Authority to Reform those Laws in Case of Error and Corruption according to the Standard of the Gospel Now to this Principle and Doctrine do but add Liberty of Conscience and the People have Law and Magistracy at their Mercy already For First they reckon themselves no further answerable either to the One or to the Other then as they find them Warranted in and Grounded upon the Word of God And Secondly they may chuse whether or no they will find any Law or Magistrate whatsoever to be so Warranted or Grounded And consequently Whether there shall be any Government or No. One Man's Conscience cannot allow This or That Injunction to be according to God's Word It may be Lawful to Another but it is not so to Him and Hee calls for Indulgence and Moderation Another Man's Conscience swears by the most High God that it is point-blank Against it and nothing will serve Him but utter Extirpation And whatsoever they call Conscience must pass for Current Every Man is to govern himself by his own Opinion not by Another bodies It is no longer Liberty of Conscience if a Man shall be run down and concluded by Prescription Authority Consent of Fathers Scripture Reason and the like without being CONVINC'D N. C. I thought you would have shewed me in what manner or by what means Liberty of Conscience comes to turn the Hearts and Interests of Subjects against their Superiors as you said you would C. A little Patience and I 'le be as good as my Word It has brought us to this pass already you see that it has cast the Government upon the good Nature of the Multitude and made it purely dependent upon the Breath of the People whether it shall Stand or Fall So that in short the Matter in Question falls under these Two Considerations First Whether a People left to Themselves either to be under the Restrient of Laws or not will not rather agree to cast off a Government then to defend it Secondly Whether they will not likewise find a very fair appearance of Interest and Advantage in so doing The Former I think will easily be Granted by any Man that does but advise either with the Common Practises of the World or with Humane Frailty Taking the World either in Individuals or in Parties What says the Artificer the Tradesman the Farmer Why should We be put upon Extremities of Hard Labour Course Fare Rising early and Going to Bed late and all little enough to keep our Families from starving any more then such and such that lie wallowing in Ease Abundance Luxury and Riot But This we may thank the Law for that has Appropriated those Possessions to Particulars which God Almighty gave us in Common Why should We be the Drudges of the Kingdom says the Day-Labourer The Law
of Common Prayer of the Church of England Without any Scandal either Given or Taken Nay so far are they from disowning us that the French Divines hold them for Schismatiques and Punishable that refuse Communion with us Bucer thanks God with all his Soul to see the English Ceremonies so pure N. C. And have they I beseech you their Set Forms Their Peremptory Impositions Their Declarations and Subscriptions C. Yes yes All This and more For Set Forms methinks you should rather tell me any one Reformed Church that wants a Set Form then put me to the Trouble of Naming all that have Calvin and Beza are Positive for them Geneva much more severe for the Observance of them then we are here Inconformity There is cause of Banishment for a Year And the Gallican Church makes it a matter of Excommunication In Geneva Calvin Establish'd his Discipline by an OATH both upon People and Pastors to observe That Form for ever after The Ministers take an Oath of Canonical Obedience in Hungary And the French Divines are not admitted without Subscription There 's no Imposing upon Publique Laws with Private Scruples No Bandying allow'd betwixt Conscience and Authority He that will not submit to the Orders of a Community Away with him says Calvin It is not enough to take cheque at the Constitutions of the Church under colour of a weak Conscience or so pretended but you must be fully satisfied that the Constitution is Wicked IN IT SELF Nay Calvin carries it further Suppose it really ministers Matter of Offence says he That will not serve to vacate the Obligation unless it be also found to be Simply and IN IT SELF Repugnant to the Word of God Quia tamen Verbo Dei PERSE non Repugnat Concedi potest To provide against Evil Consequences is the Magistrates Duty not the Subjects N. C. The Worship of God is in it self Pure and Perfect and Decent without having any such Ceremonies affixed thereunto And many Faithful Servants of the Lord knowing his Word to be a Perfect Rule of Faith and Worship have ever been exceeding fearful of Uarying from his Will and of the Danger of Displeasing him by Additions or Detractions in such Duties C. You will hardly find any honest President for this Nicety Calvin would have given it a worse Name Testatum Velim says he me non de Ceremoniis Litigare quae Decoro tantum Ordini Serviant vel etiam Symbola sunt Incitamenta ejus quam Deo deferimus Reverentiae He Declares himself you see not only for Ceremonies of Order and Decency but for Ceremonies of Significancy and Incitement to Reverence and Devotion And in another place Ergone Inquies nihil Ceremoniarum rudioribus dabitur ad juvandam Eorum Imperitiam Id ego non dico omnino enim utile illis esse sentio hoc Genus Adminiculi Will you allow of no Ceremonies then at all you 'l say for the Instruction of the Vulgar You do not hear me say so for I am clearly of opinion that they are of very great use and service to the People Upon the Main The English Non-Conformists as Mr. Durell well observes are a sort of People by themselves and Non-Conformists at Geneva and Francfort as well as at Canterbury or London N. C. But still methinks whatever our Consciences are as to the way of Publick Worship we might yet be Indulged with an Allowance of â—…erving God among our selves Why should a Toleration do worse Here then in Holland C. I might Answer you with another Question Why should a Commonwealth do worse Here then in Holland Or Why should a Standing Army do worse Here then in Holland Beside If you look narrowly into it you will find the Dissenters from the Settlement There to be rather Strangers then Natives English French High-Dutch that flowed in to them upon the General Revolt from the Church of Rome Lutherans and Anabaptists out of Germany Calvinists out of France Separatists and Semiseparatists out of England in the Days of Queen Mary and Independents since all which were entertein'd more out of Regard to Policy then Conscience their Business being at that time to shake off the Yoke of Spain and Change the Government To which End these several Parties contributed effectually by preparing the People for the Alteration Intended and inuring them to New Principles both of Religion and State And yet you are not to understand Theirs to be a Perfect Toleration neither For you see they would not upon any terms allow That Freedom to the Arminians which they did to Others but Conven'd a Synod and Exterminated the Sect. The reason was they had a Jealousie of the Arminians for Barnevelt's sake the Head of that Party You are to take notice also of the great difference betwixt the Interest and Condition of Our Ministers and Theirs Our Clergy have a Freehold in their Benefices for Term of Life and if they be Factiously disposed they may Evade the Law and do a Mischief without making a Forfeiture Whereas Theirs Preach upon Good Behaviour Live upon the States Pay and upon the least Colour of Offence may be turn'd off at pleasure I need not tell you what Havock Peters Bridges Sympson Ward made in Holland But what they did Abroad the same thing they would have done at Home if they had been Tolerated N. C. What do ye think of Poland then C. I think That Story speaks little to your Advantage take it either in Respect of their frequent Seditions or in Regard of their Prodigious and Heretical Opinions And yet they live under the strongest Obligation in Nature to keep them quiet The Tartar and other Powerful Neighbours lying hard upon them which makes their Case to be rather an Agreement against a Common Enemy then among Themselves N. C. Now take all at the worst It is but Athanasius against the World and The World against Athanasius Number and Truth are not always of a Side C. And yet Your Multitudes make up a great part of your Argument This however let me speak for you There has no Industry been wanting to Propagate your Profession In the Year 1619. The Scotch Discipline was presented to the Synod at Dort for their Approbation But they would not meddle with it Anno 1654. Upon the Reprinting at Geneva of A Collection of the several Confessions of Faith received in all the Reformed Churches of Europe under the Title of Corpus Syntagâ—…a Confessionum Fidei c. It was moved that the Thirty Nine Articles of the Church of England might be left out and the Assembly Mens Confession put in the place But the Motion was totally rejected The Thirty nine Articles Inserted and not a Word of the Directory They had no better luck with their Covenant neither then with their Discipline The Ministers and others of the Consistory at Charenton and of other Reformed Churches in France as also the Professours Ministers and Consistory of Geneva
of a Religious Education C. If This be All never Trouble your selves for many an honest Man has out-liv'd more then this comes to In short There 's a huge Clamour but God knows with little Reason Some Particulars will possibly suffer for want of a Toleration and who are They but the Profest Opposers of the Law And on the Other side All the Friends of the Government will suffer by it If you would see the Event of Granting what you ask Turn but your Face toward 41 and then Blush and Repent Besides You 're not aware that in Contesting with the Law you Quarrel with your self THERE' 's YOUR OWN VOTE AGAINST YOU and all this Muttering is no other then your Factious Will wrangling with your Political Consent And yet I say Stick to your Conscience Let us now put the Case of a Real Distance betwixt This Act and your Conscience How will you divide your Duty N. C. I 'le follow your Advice and stick to my Conscience C. Now change Hands and make your self the Supreme Magistrate He has a Double Conscience One that concerns Himself the Other his People What his Majesties Personal Iudgment is has been Declared Abundantly What his Prudential Iudgment may dispose Him to lies in His Royal Brest But be That as Heaven shall Order it Here 's the Partition of your Rights The King's Prerogative has nothing to do with your Conscience and your Conscience has as little to do with His Majesties Prerogative The King is Accomptable to God for the Welfare of his People and You are only Accomptable to God for the Good of your little Particular If You cannot Obey the Law Do not But abide the Penalty If the Sovereign cannot Relax the Law He 's as Free to Execute it Your Conscience requires Liberty and your Governour 's Conscience requires Order Now why you should expect that your Sovereign should bring down His Conscience to Yours when you find upon Experiment that you cannot perswade your Own to come up to His is to me a Mystery To Conclude Keep your self within your Sphere and where you cannot Consent as a Christian Submit as a Subject that We may at last hope for some Respite from the Calamities of Sedition and Schism N. C. And why not Scandal and Profaneness too For the Edge of your Severity might be directed to much better Purpose That way SECT XXIV The Church of England charges the Non-Conformists with SCHISM and the Non-Conformists charge those of the Church with SCANDAL The Matter is taken into Debate N. C. YOur Position is That no Toleration is to be admitted to the hazzard of Religion Good Life and Government Keep to That Standard and you will find that the Conformists have as little Pretense to a Toleration as their Neighbours and that the Notorious Scandal on the one side outweighs the Objected Schism on the other C. This will scarce hold if you come to be Try'd by your own Laws which make it a Matter of Scandal by Writing Preaching or otherwise to publish a Disaffection to the Present Government But Explain your self N. C. By Scandal I mean Habitual Prophaneness Sensuality Dissolution of Manners c. As by Schism I suppose you intend our Incompliances with your Church-Discipline Weigh These Two now One against the Other and do you your self hold the Balance Set up your Tavern-Clubs against our Conventicles Oppose your Combinations against God Himself to our Plots against the Government For you must not take it Ill if I tell ye that Atheism is become the Sport and Salt of your most Celebrated Enterteinments And when you have dash'd the Bible out of Countenance with the Story of the Three Grand Impostors or some such Lashing Piece of Drollery The Questioning of God's Over-ruling Wisdom by Solemn Arguments and the Placing of Fortune in the Throne of Providence is that which commonly Crowns your Conversations C. You should not charge Personal Crimes upon a Party unless you can prove them to be rationally Consequent to the Tenets and Actings of That Party Now if you can shew me any Affinity betwixt our Principles and These Impieties you say something But if you cannot The Dust of your Argument puts out your own Eyes I do not wonder I must confess to see a Nation Over-run with Atheism that has been so many Years under your Tuition or to find the Brat of a Conventicle laid at the Church-Door N. C. May not We charge Personal Extravagancies upon your Party as well as You do upon Ours C. Yes If you can prove the same Agreement against Us betwixt the Faults of the One and the Principles of the Other which we are able to justifie against You. The Episcopal Party you know stood for the King and it is undeniable that the King and Church had the same Cause and Fate It is as unquestionable on the other side that the Non-Conformists destroy'd both the One and the Other Not by Accident neither but by a Form'd and Excogitated Design wrap'd up and couch'd in the very Mystery and Foundation of the Schism Your Separation from a Communion with the Church resolving naturally into a Combination against the Entire Frame of the Government till in the End by the help of a Peinful and Well-effected Ministry the Generality of the People were Preach'd into This Division i. e. Those that could not reach the Cheat were taught to Scruple at Every Thing and Those that went along with it to make a Conscience of Nothing And this is it that has brought us to be so Pester'd with Enthusiasts and Atheists N. C. But let me tell ye again the Atheists are of the Other Party C. And let me enform you too that your Proceedings have made Atheists more ways then One First The meer Quality of your Cause has made Atheism the Interest of a great many of your Partakers who to put off the Thought of a Divine Vengeance attending them if there be a God Endeavour for their own Quiet to perswade themselves that there is no God at all Secondly The Work has been carried on under the Masque of Holiness and the most Desperate Atheist is nothing else but a Crusted Hypocrite I speak of your Religious Atheist who has This Odds of the Profane and Scoffing Wretch that he abuses God to his Face and in his own House The Great Atheists indeed are Hypocrites says Sir Francis Bacon which are ever bandling Holy Things but without Feeling so as they must needs be Cauteriz'd in the End It is Remarquable as I have elsewhere recommended to your Observation that in the Holy Scripture there are not so many Woes pronounc'd nor so many Cautions Inculcated against any sort of People as against Hypocrites You shall there find that God has given the Grace of Repentance to Persecutors Idolaters Murtherers Adulterers c. But I am mistaken if the whole Bible yields any one Instance of a CONVERTED Hypocrite Thirdly You have done more in your Practises
then ever they had from the Presbyterians There was no Persecuting of Men for Covenants and Directories So that Thus far the Independents have made their Professions of Liberty good by their Practise Presb. And are not the Classical Presbyterians as much for a Lawful Liberty as the Congregationals Lâ—…t there be a Toleration in Religion excepting to Blasphemy Treason or Gross Errours Bear with the Weak Tolerate the Tolerable and for the Intolerable we beg not your Toleration â—…ere's the Sense and Destre of the Presbyterian Divines that were Commission'd about the Review of the Service-Book Indep This is only a New Song to an Old Tune The Presbyterians have just the same need of the Independents at this day that they had some nine and twenty Years ago The Author of The Discourse of Religion has many good Remarques upon the Papists that may be very well applied to the Presbyterians and This for One. Things past says he may afford Prognostiques of things to come So that we are to gather what you intend now from what you did after saying the same things before Or if you had rather come to a Tryal upon the Evidence of your own Manifestos and Declarations then upon the History of your Practises I shall make use of no other Testimony against you The Presbyterians press the Demand of a Toleration as a very reasonable Request and yet they Themselves have pronounc'd Judgment against it as a thing against Conscience Destructive of Publique Order both in Church and State and of the Peace of Common Society Toleration says Mr. Edwards cannot be Condescended to without a Breach of Oath and Covenant It is the Depth of Satan this Design of a Toleration He does not move for a Toleration of Heresies and Gross Errours but an Allowance of a LATITUDE in some LESSER DIFFERENCES with Peaceableness This is Candidus ille Diabolus That White Devil c. The London Ministers Letter to the Assembly in 1645. declares it Repugnant to the Solemn League and Covenant The Commissioners of the Kirk of Scotland do Protest and Declare against it as Inconsistent with and Repugnant to the Word of God As to the Influence of a Toleration upon Church and State Mr. Edwards tells us that The Party Tolerated will never rest Working till they get the upper hand and Suppress the Other Rutherford is positive that such Opinions and Practises as make an Evident Schism in a Church and set up two Distinct Churches of Different Forms and Government are NOT to be Tolerated For by their Principles they labour each the Destruction of the other and this Toleration destroys Peace and Unity Again The London Ministers are of Opinion that it will produce causless and unjust Revolts from the Ministry and Congregations The Peoples Minds will be Troubled and in Danger to be Subverted Heart-burnings will be Fomented and Perpetuated to Posterity The Godly Peinful and Orthodox Ministers will be Discouraged and Despis'd The Life and Power of Godliness will be eaten up by Frivolous Disputes and Ianglings And the whole Church of England in short time will be swallowed up with Distraction and Confusion The Kingdom will be wofully weakned also by Scandals and Divisions The Power of the Magistrate will not be only weakned but utterly overthrown by the Anti-Magistratical Principles and Practises of the Independents And the whole Course of Religion in Private Families will be interrupted and undermined Not to multiply Authorities more then necessary This has been the strein of all your Proceedings Imperiously and Inexorably Strict and Rigorous in Imposing upon Others and as Shamelesly Importune and Clamorous for Liberty to Your selves But what have I more to do then to pass Sentence upon you out of your own Mouths You cannot in Conscience desire a Toleration if you understand it to be Against Conscience to Grant it And the very Asking of That which you believe would draw a Destruction upon Church and State is Ground enough for a strong Presumption that you Intend it Presb. That which was a Reasonable Cause of Refusal from the Presbyterians to the Independents will not hold good from the Church of England to the Presbyterians Either in respect of the Stability of our Government or of the Sobriety of our Principles SECT XXVII In Case of a Toleration or Indulgence to be Granted Whether has the fairer Pretense to it The CLASSICAL Way of the PRESBYTERIANS or the CONGREGATIONAL Way of the INDEPENDENTS in Respect of their Form of Government Indep THe Presbyterians you say are rather to be Tolerated then the Independents in regard of the Stability of their Government and the Sobriety of their Principles To speak in this Place to the Matter of their Government I think your Argument is very ill grounded For in Deliberations of this Nature the Cautions that occur to all Magistrates are chiefly These Two First in case of an Indulgence that it may be placed upon a Party which in Probability would not disturb the Publique if they could But Secondly to make sure however for fear of the worst that they shall not be able to do it if they would So that whether a Stable and United or a Loose and Distracted Interest may with more Security be Indulged is the Question Presb. You may as well ask Whether Order or Confusion be more Tolerable in a Government Indep That Order which is Necessary in the Government it self is Dangerous in the Enemies of it But deliver your Exceptions to the Toleration of those which you call Independents in Regard of their way of Government Presb. You have already in a good part sav'd me that Labour But a Man shall not need to go further for an Exception then to the very Denomination of them which Imports an Exemption from all Iurisdiction both Eclesiastical and Civil Indep But what will become of That Exception when I shall tell you that those People are no more Independent then the Presbyterians We depend upon the Magistrate for Civil Government and Protection and upon Christ and his Word for the Rule of our Administrations Nay we insist upon it that the Congregational Way is the only true Original Presbytery which is Peculiar to every Particular Church of Christ. But if you call us Independent as in distinction to Subordinate we are not only ready as such Independents to defend our selves but by virtue of That very Independency we pretend to claim an Advantage over the Presbyterians Presb. I could tell ye of your Church-Covenants and Defensive Leagues against the Commands of Authority Indep But I could speak homer to you of your National Leagues and Covenants which all the World knows are the grand Engines to disjoynt Communities and remove the Foundations of Government And I do not much wonder at it where the Act of a General Assembly Influences the Consciences of a whole Nation As to any Covenants and Leagues against the Magistrate neither do the Independents practise
that Discipline Which will best appear by a view of the Powers which the Presbytery claims and Exercises But let me Commend One Note to you as Previous to that Examination This Party has constantly screw'd it self into the World by an Oath of Mutual Defence Which Oath they apply as well to the Ruine and Extirpation of their Opponents as to their own Preservation by making it a Test of good Affection to That Interest and Excluding all People whatsoever from any Office or Benefit Ecclesiastical or Civil without subscribing it You cannot deny but this Oath in the very Institution of it is a Violence both upon Law and Conscience and Consequently that the Imposition falls heaviest upon those that make an Honourable and Religious Scruple of their Actions So that here is already exposed the most Considerable part of the Nation for the Subject of their Displeasure with their Lives Liberties and Fortunes at Mercy as you will find upon a further Consideration of their Usurped Authority and Iurisdiction Presb. Leave this way of General Discourse and come to Particular Instances Where is it that you find This Exorbitant Power that you talk of Indep In the very Declaration of the Commission of the General Assembly of Scotland 1648. page 53. The Duties of the Second Table as well as of the First As namely the Duties between King and Subject Parents and Children Husbands and Wives Masters and Servants and the Like being conteined in and to be taught and cleared from the Word of God are in That Respect and so far as concerneth the Point of Conscience a Subject of Ministerial Doctrine and in Difficult Cases a Subject of Cognizance and Iudgment to the Assembly of the Kirk The Dispute here was about the Assemblies Authority in the Question of War or Peace Is not This at one Blow to destroy the Order of all Relations Political Natural and Moral Princes must not presume to make War or Peace To Enact Laws or Abrogate To Spare or Punish without Ecclesiastical Licence The Subject must go to the Masters of the Parish to know whether he shall Obey Authority or Resist it And after the same manner it fares with Parents and Children Husbands and Wives Masters and Servants So that there is not any Person either Publique or Private Or any Action or Office of Regard to Community Family or Alliance that scapes their Pragmatical Scrutiny and Inspection Presb. So far as these Duties are matter of Conscience there is no Doubt but they are of Ecclesiastical Cognisance and further then so they make no Pretension Indep But you must give me leave to tell you then that their Consciences are larger then other Peoples The Old Nonconformist as au Expedient for the settling Ecclesiastical Affairs Page 43. proposes the setting up of Work-Houses for the Poor the Carrying on of the Fishing Trade The taking off of Protections that none may be Imprison'd but according to Law and the Abatement of Taxes The Assembly at Glasgow 1638. passed an Act concerning Salmon Fishing and another about Salt Pans And all This I Warrant ye so far as they concerned Point of Conscience But if you would see what the Consistory calls Conscience in the full Extent we must repair for satisfaction to their Direction and Practises in the matter of Conscience and Excommunication The Kirk proceeds to Excommunication in all Capital Crimes where the Offender that deserv'd to dye is suffer'd to live And in Cases of Fornication Drunkenness Swearing Cursing Sabâ—…ath-Breaking Wanton Words Contempt of the Orders of the Church Oppression of the Poor Deceipt in Buying and Selling by wrong Mete and Measure Presb. Well and what hurt 's in all this Indep None at all But let me proceed They Censure also Excess in Apparel Meat or Drink UNCOMELY GESTURES Contentiousnes without reasonable Cause Chiding Brawling VAINWORDS Every fault that tendeth to the Hurt of a Man's Neighbour or to the Hindrance of the Glory of God Whether by Force or Fraud Word or Deed Manifestly or Secretly Purposely or Ignorantly And the Judgment of the whole is left to the Discretion of the Church So that your very Thoughts are not free The Spiritual Ruler says the Book of Discipline Iudgeth Both Inward Affections and External Actions in respect of Conscience by the Word of God Upon which ground they take upon them to Censure the very SUSPICION of Avarice and Pride Superfluity or Riotousness in Chear or Rayment But upon Dancers Robin Hoods and all Games that brings Loss they have no mercy These particulars are extracted to a syllable out of the most Authentical Records they have to shew for the Warrant of the Scottish Discipline Our Blessed Model But many People perchance will make it a matter of nothing to be Excommunicate upon a Supposition that the Anathema is the uttermost spite of the Censure They never dream of Carâ—…ings Iogges Pillories Shaving their Beards and Cutting half the Hair of their Heads Banishments Pecuniary Muâ—…cts Close Imprisonments and all sorts of Studied Defamations Nay If any man refuse to Subscribe their Confession of Faith Rule of Government and Manner of Worship He is forthwith Excommunicate and upon Remonstrance of a Commissioner from the Presbytery to the Civil Iudg a Warrant granted commanding him to Conform by a Day Certein or to be OUTLAWED If he Conform not within that time his ESTATE MOVE ABLE is FORFEITED and if not within a Year and a Day he Loses his whole REVENUE for his Life After This at the further Instance of the Churches Commissioner Out go Letters of Caption for Apprehending of his Person and Committing him as a Rebel And if he be not to be found These are follow'd with Letters of Inter-Communing forbidding all men either Personally to Confer with him or by Letter or interposed Person to Correspond with him upon Pein of the Inter-Communers being Iudged and Reputed a Rebel of the same Guiltiness As to the General Rule of Excommunication no Person Wife and Family excepted is to have any Communication with the Excommunicate be it in Eating or Drinking Buying or Selling Yea in Saluting or Talking with Him Unless at Commandment or License of the Ministry for his Conversion His Children Begotten and Born after That Sentence not to be admitted to Baptism till of Age to require it Unless the Mother or some special Friends Members of the Kirk Offer and Present the Child Damning the Iniquity and Contempt of the Impenitent There are that do not allow Husbands to accompany with their Wives in the State of Excommuni cation Now upon what has been deliver'd Let any Man Consider the Unchristian Rigor of This Disciplinary Inquisition not only in the Actual Tyranny of it but in the more Miserable Consequences First as it Scandalizes the Gospel and makes the Death of Christ seem to be no Effect by Imposing upon Us such Conditions of Salvation as if the Blessed Angels should descend and Indue Humane shapes they were
Shoulders first before they parted with their Market Upon which Menace they were quiet The Author of Presbytery Display'd gives you some Instances of the Presbyteries Interposal in Actions of Debt and menacing Landlords and Creditors with Excommunication unless they laid down the Precess Upon Pretense Forsooth that though it was in a Civil Cause it had yet a Spiritual Prospect Withdrew People from their Callings and Hindred the Progress of the Gospel And this is no more then any man will reasonably Expect that looks but with half an eye upon the very Frame and Provision of the Discipline Is not he a mad man that thinks to recover a Debt at Common Law against any Member or Members Friend of the Presbytery when ' â—…is but flying to the Canon of the Consistory to silence the Dispute and telling Him that He is Contentious without a Reasonable Cause Cannot the Church put an End to Strife among Brethren as well as the Civil Magistrate It is a matter of Evil Example and tends to the Hurt of our Neighbour If the Creditor be Obstinate and will not take good Counsel Out flyes an Excommunication against Him for refusing to obey the Orders of the Church I would now fain understand what it is that sets so many of the MINISTERS a Gog upon this Platform For certeinly They are of all Mortals the most Contemptible the Iunto and some few of the Select Ones Excepted Their Discipline Divides the Church Patrimony into four Parts One for the Pa stor Another for the Elders Deacons and other Kirk-Officers their Doctors and Schools A Third for Charitable Uses and the Rest for Repairing of Churches and other Incidental Charges So that the Clergy is strip'd already of 3. Parts of 4 of their Legal Maintenance And then for the poor Pittance that is left so much as will keep Life and Soul together they are allow'd in Meal and Mault and totally dependent upon the Mercy of the Church for the rest And yet for this pittiful stipend They are to be call'd to Accompt how they spend it and their Wives and Children to be thrown at last upon the Charge of the Parish In their Preaching they are Limited by the Direction and Design of their Leaders Only Tenants at Will in their Cures and lyable to be Removed Suspended or Deposed at Pleasure This Arbitrary Dominion together with the Shameful Condition of their Bondage has proved so great a Discouragement to the Ministry that they have found themselves forc'd to Press Ministers into the Service as they would do Souldiers And where they find men of Abilities for their Purpose The Civil Magistrate is call'd upon to compel them to the Ministry Nay rather than fail the Nobility and Gentry must bring up their Children to the Service and good Liking of the Kirk under Pein of Church-Censure A Jurisdiction exercised according to the Latitude of This Discipline One would think might satisfie any Reasonable sort of People But alas If they do not as much Exceed their own Bounds in their Practise as they exceed all other Models in their Pretensions they reckon it as good as nothing They can Cite People out of a Remote Iurisdiction Deprive whole Presbyterys for Dissent Kings Declaration page 314 Call Nine Presbyters of Fifty a General Assembly Spotswood p. 490. Demolish Churches 304. and Dispose of the Patrimony 311. and what not More needs not be said as to the Empire They Exercise over King Lords and Commons severally and in divers Respects We come now to their Usurpations upon the Common Rights and Priviledges of Mankind CHIDING as I told you they have drawn within the Compass of Ecclesiastical Censure So that Masters shall not Reprove their Servants nor Parents their Children without leave of the Eldership to the utter Dissolution of the Order and Discipline of Private Families Nay they have taken in BRAWLING too and made every Billingsgate Quarrel every Brabble betwixt a Butter-Whore and an Oysterwench a Subject of Consistorial Cognizance Under the Censure of LEWD CUSTOMS are Comprized all sorts of Publique Sports Exercises and Recreations that have been long in Use upon the Worshipful Pretense forsooth that they had their Original from the times of Paganism or Popery As Comedies Interludes Wrastlings Foot-Ball-Play May-Games Whitson-ales Morrice-Dances Bear-baitings Nay the Poor Rosemary and Bayes and Christmas-Pye is made an Abomination Presb. And are not the Independents as much against these Fooleries as the Presbyterians Indep No we take Our own Freedom to forbear what we dislike our selves and allow other People their Liberty to Practise what pleases them But to proceed All GAMES that bring LOSS are Prohibited Tennis Bowles Billiards Not so much as a Game at Stool-Ball for a Tansy or a Cross and Pyle for the odd Penny of a Reckoning upon Pein of Damnation Shortly Boys shall not Play At Span-Counter or Blow-Point but shall Pay Tell to some Presbyter What do you think now of UNCOMELY GESTURES That a man shall be given to the Devil for Lolling upon his Elbow or setâ—…ing on his Back-side in the Presence of the Deacon of the Parish And the Like for Excess in EATING or APPAREL Every Bit we put into our Mouths and every Rag we put upon our Backs becomes a Snare to Us. It may be either too much or too costly and What Reformation soever the Kirk shall think fit to Order either in our Clothes or Dyet must be observ'd with the same Degree of Submission and Obedience as if the matter in Question were an Article of our Creed Their Censure of VAIN WORDS is yet more Rigorous and reaches for ought we know to the honestest Endearments and Familiarities of Friendship and Conversation even to the Exclusion of Common Decency and Civility But let Our Words be what they will We are still dependent upon the good Pleasure of the Eldership whether they will pronounce them Vain or Edifying But why should a man expect to scape for WORDS where THOUGHT it self is Censurable SUSPICION of Avarice Pride c. as you have heard He that sues to recover a Debt shall be suspected of Avarice He that refuses to Crouch like the Asse under the Burthen shall be suspected of Pride And for a Man and a Woman to be only seen together shall be ground enough for a suspicion of Incontinency Nay they shall be Cited Interrogated Close-Committed and put to Bread and Water upon it and compell'd to Swear in Propriam Turpitudinem After all This and that no Proof appears and that they purge themselves upon Oath It shall be yet Enacted by the Assembly that if ever These two shall be seen again in Company together unless at Church or Market they shall be taken pro Confesso for Guilty A whole Volume says the Author of Presbytery Display'd might be written of Young Women by these Courses disgraced and Defamed Of many Families divided and scatter'd whereas before there was never any jealousie betwixt the Man