his good pleasure what he would haue vs to do and to bring vs word thereof Gent. These were good causes of going to Rome if these were all they deserued neither imprisonment nor banishment nor in any sort should they haue beene hardly vsed or denied audience Surely they had committed some other fault Priest None at all surely Fa. Parson feared least if they should haue had free audience they would haue detected his cunning dealing with the Pope in procuring the new authoritie with our Church in imposing it so violently vpon our Cleargie and haue finally ouerthrowne all his plots laid for oppressing our priests the aduancement of his soietie in England For this cause hauing Cardinall Caiet readie to enforme and effect whatsoeuer hee would mooue him to he maliciously informed the Pope against our priests shut vp all the wayes of audience and got them taken and committed to close prison before euer they were heard at the last banished Gent. They were brought before the Cardinall Caietane and another Cardinall in the English Colledge and then heard what they could say Pr. After seuen weekes close imprisonment they were called before them indeed their examinations taken by Fa. P. of many impertinent matters were read and after there was a shamefull slaunderous libell exhibited against them and read by M. Haddocke and M. Aray two English priests suborned by Fa. P. and readie for whatsoeuer he would bid them doe to serue his turne which yet our priests could not bee permitted to haue a copie of nor to aunswere vnto And for their maine businesse it was nothing at all to the purpose spoken of Gent. VVhy did not your priests deliuer their businesses to the Cardinals at that time Priest Because they were not called forth for that end but as malefactors to answere to whatsoeuer Fa. Par. had deuised against them And they saw neither time nor place fit to deliuer it where the iniquitie of Fa. P. so much preuailed and all justice and indifferencie was abandoned especially they perceiuing Fa. Parsons without discontenting Cardinall Caietane by so doing disposed to deride and make to seeme contemptible both the men and whatsoeuer they said in any thing that crossed his humour They asked the Cardinall if hee condemned their comming to the See Apostolicke about the affaires of their Church He said no it was lawfull VVhy then are we thus punished said they Not for your comming but because you haue thereby and by your contentions scandalized many in England And in the sentence of the Cardinals the crimes for which they were banished are specified to be neither schisme nor rebellion nor enormious disobedience to the Pope or Arch-priest but because they had had contentions in England with men of their owne order whether justly or injustly they had these contentions it is not declared that so vntrue a calumnie might goe more currant in those doubtfull speeches whereas no bad or vnjust dealings of theirs in Englād could be proued against them before those Cardinals but all matters were shuffled vp and done just as Fa. P. would haue them Gent. VVhereby it seemeth that this controuersie of yours was neuer at that time discussed or mentioned at all in Rome Pr. They there neuer had it in question or speech whether we were schismaticks or rebellious or enormiously disobedient for our bearing off to accept the authoritie before the comming of the Breue And therefore you may see by this what little truth is in the Iesuits words when they affirme that our cause was heard and sentence giuen against vs in Rome Gent. VVhy haue they tampered so much in these matters against you Pr. Oh they be Iesuits they must be stirring and the true causes are these They would not be subordinat in any manner to ordinary prelats in England as to Bishops Suffraganes c. but beare themselues the greatest sway in the gouernment of our Church and disposing of all things To exclude therefore all ordinarie prelates which were to bee chosen by voices and common consent of our cleargie they preuented vs secretly by getting an Archp. to rule ouer all except themselues This authoritie was of their owne deuising the man preferred thereto of their own election in whose gouernment also and actions they prouided that themselues should haue a principall stroke that forsooth in euery matter of importance the Archp. should haue the aduise and direction of the head Iesuit in England Thus their wils should be fulfilled without checke in all they listed to attempt or desire Now after they had by false suggestion by many wayes procured this new authoritie and brought vs all into their bondage it behooued them to hold it by violence and strong hand which they had contriued by such cunning for their owne particular without respect of conscience or charitie The end I told you of admaiorem dei gloriam which is cheefely by the aduancement of their societie salueth all odde dealings Gent. It were more time that wee proceeded to some other matter for I should vnderstand this more by reading the censure and letter you spoke of Pr. Let vs so doe what is the next The fourth Slaunder Gent. The report is all ouer That you bee aduersaries or enemies to the Iesuits which are known to be religious men of singular vertue and perfection and to whome aboue all men our nation is most bound and many things are said of your hard dealing against them Pr. I pray you let vs heare all and I shall satisfie you in euery point as well as I can Gent. I shall speake all as it commeth to my remembrance Priest Doe so but for this you haue said what ground haue they to proue vs their enemies or in what are wee their enemies say they I know some haue said and written That wee are enemies to their religious perfection Gent. I also haue heard the same of their dearest fauourites Priest This is a rash and vncharitable calumnie For no man can be an enemy to religious perfection but thereby he falleth from Gods grace For albeit no man out of vow be bound vnder mortall sinne to obserue the Euangelicall counsels yet can no Christian hate the obseruers of them or become their enemie for that respect but hee offendeth mortally thereby If therefore it be certaine that we be their enemies it is no lesse certain that the cause is not any part of religious perfection to be noted in them for otherwise should we be enemies also to the religious men of other orders as to Dominicans Franciscans Benedictines Carthusians and the rest in all the which no man except a Iesuit will denie as much religious perfection to bee found as is among the Iesuits yea we should be more enemies to all them than to Iesuits if this were the cause that mooueth vs in this case For all these haue the essentiall vows of pouertie chastitie and obedience as well as Iesuits and it is to bee supposed that they obserue
Divine Peccatum Schismatis tendit contra vnitatem siue Ecclesiae siue Capitis formaliter The crime of Schisme tendeth against the vnitie either of the church or head formally that is as it is the church vnder that head or the head of that church And therefore if one doubt reasonably whether this particular person be the Pope or no and thereupon do not acknowledge himfully for the Pope hee incurreth not thereby the crime of Schisme no though he erre in iudgement because there wanteth the formalitie of Schisme which is this to refuse him as hee is vndoubtedly the Pope C. 27. And finally the famous Lawyer Nauar Schisma peccatum est quo quis se seperat ab vnitate Ecclesiae nolendo subesse ei vel membris eius quatenus sunt eius Schisme is a sinne whereby one seperateth himselfe from the vnitie of the Church by refusing to be vnder it or the members thereof in regard they are the members thereof So that by the iudgement of all the learned this is an vndoubted veritie That a man cannot be a schismaticke vnlesse hee haue a voluntary or entended rebellion against the Pope and the Church with this formalitie as hee is the Pope or head and the church a body or members vnder him that is in one word vnlesse he refuse to acknowledg him for his head and to communicat with the members because they be vnder him perceiue you this Gent. Yea very well Priest Hereupon it is manifest that we could not possibly be Scismaticks by our delay Gent. I see no such consequence Priest Doe you not you know that our delay to accept of the authoritie and to submit our selues to the Archpr. was not because we denied the Pope to be Pope and our head nor that we refused to obey him as our head nor for that wee would not admit the authoritie and Man said to be instituted by him formally because they were sayd to be instituted by him Vpon these respects and formalities we delaied not and yet without these we could not possibly be Schismaticks But the whole controuersie stood in this That the authoritie was inconuenient for our Church and that it was doubtful VVhether in truth the authoritie was instituted by the Pope or not This was vncertaine I say the Iesuits and Archpriest on the one side had no Bull no Breue no Apostolick letters no authenticall Instrument as is vsuall in all matters both of great lesser moment proceeding from that See and which in graunts of extraordinarie Iurisdiction and Prelacie is absolutely necessarie before any bee bound in conscience to obey them they had no such thing to shewe for proofe of that they claimed and would violently inforce vpon vs as his Ho. fact and wee on the other side partly for want of this Apostolicke VVrit and Testimonie partly vpon other great reasons had good cause to doubt that his Hol. was not acquainted with it yea the particulars of the authoritie implied in them so many and so great inconueniences that we thought it needfull to delay the acceptance thereof till his Ho. should haue better information of our Churches estate and thereupon either recall the authoritie if it were his deed or in time reforme and change it into some other more commodious to our afflicted Church So that their propounding or promulgating this authoritie being insufficient no way binding vs in conscience we bare off to receiue it because it was vncertaine and very likely not to haue bene instituted by the Pope The inconueniences also which it brought with it were no little cause of our delay and we bare not off because we refused to be subject to the Pope as Pope or head of Christs Church or to this or any superioritie he should ordaine ouer us as our supreme Pastor which yet wee must haue done before we had incurred the crime of Schisme Perceiue you now how the case standeth and how farre off we were from being Schismaticks Gent. Very well Pr. Nay further we were so free from that crime and all the least disobedience to the See Apostolicke in that delay of ours and of this neither the Iesuits nor Archpr. could be ignorant for they were priuie to our whole course and actions in that matter and they had also our owne word and hand-writing for submission in al things which were certainly notified vnto vs to be his Ho. his deed that for men of their profession learning modestie and experience to condemne vs yea in the secrecic of their owne conscience to be guiltie of schisme or the least disobedience cannot bee defended by any reason from the grieuous sinne of temeritie and rash judgment But for them by their toungs penns and practise to display and cast abroad in the world the turpitude of this infamie for crimes faigned against vs by themselues and neuer once committed in thought by vs and this also before the Church had examined and censured our case this this fact of the Iesuits Archpriest as it cannot possibly bee excused nor escape the note of vncharitable audacitie extreame crueltie in them so of necessitie must it bring woonder to all posteritie and be horrible in the sight of all honest men VVhen they vrged the admittance of the authoritie with so many threats and in so violent a manner as they did all that yeare before the comming of the Popes Breue we alwaies told them this and we deliuered it them in writing First that we admitted of whatsouer the Pope had done already or would doe in time to come in our Church Againe that wee would presently and without delay receiue the new authoritie and submit our selues vnto the Archpriest if they could shew vnto vs the Popes letters and certainely make it knowne by any Apostolicall writ or authenticall instrument that the authoritie was instituted by him Thirdly we would in fact also doe the same without the shew of any Apostolicall letter if the Archp. and two of the Iesuits would sweare vnto vs and avow it vpon their priesthood that this authority was ordained ouer vs by the Pope or that his Ho. was acquainted with euery particular thereof Againe if they refused all these wee offered further presently to obey the authoritie vpon condition they would agree with vs to send one or two of either side to Rome which might informe his Ho. of the state of all and bring vs certaine word what his will was we should doe in every thing These proceedings and offers of ours will for euer yeeld a firm and irrefragable testimonie of our sinceritie priest-like comportment and innocencie in this cause moreouer protect and keepe safe our good names from the slaunders of our aduersaries in all degrees of schisme or disobedience wherewith their ill affected minds by many sleightie shifts and deceitfull pretences so earnestly labour to staine them and to bereaue vs of our credite a treasure without which we desire not to liue on earth Gent. Made you
businesse causeth such admirable alteration that admit heretofore one had been reputed and shunned as a bad companion or holden for a daungerous spie and traitor by our aduersaries and their fauorites admit hee were such a one as had publickely renounced his Catholicke religion and in open court renied the Pope and authoritie of the sea Apostolicke admit hee were such a one as by his whole life had giuen monstrance of Atheisme yet his exquisit diligence his intemperate stickling his furious zeale in blazing euery where our vndeserued infamies graceth him afresh and maketh him worthy the name of a good fellow and to be reckoned by our brethren persecutors in the rank of a reasonable honest man thogh perhaps this good conceit fame must stand no longer than this peece of their vilest seruice shall endure Your selfe good Sir with all your Catholicke neighbors can witnesse with vs how hetherto wee haue concealed from you and kept secret all the matter of these contentions being most vnwilling and in troth very scrupulous though in our own iust defence to impart vnto you any little portion of the cause or controuersie the notice whereof might certainely trouble your minds and breed you scandale but could not benefit you in the smallest degree Neither the matter only was thus carefully kept from you but the parties also with whome wee had this lamentable conflict least vpon the long triall you haue had of our painefull trauels and sincere conuersation among you nothing agreeable to these slanders you might take the smallest aversion or any hard conceit against the persons of our aduersaries that beare the name of religious men and Catholicke priests But now that you are already made acquainted with this contention and with the parties also and this not by vs but by the Iesuites the Arch-priest and the double industrie of their Agents and that againe contrary to the very law of God and Nature they heape vpon vs dayly new infamies before our cause be heard or by any forme of iust triall and proceeding we bee found guiltie and convicted in the least crime of hundreds wherewith they vnconscionably charge vs. It is needfull that we repell so notable iniuries that wee stand in orderly defence of our good names and innocencie and that we let you know the truth of our cause to the end that this present disturbance of your peace and the greeuous scandale giuen throughout the realme by these contentions may redound to them or vs as either they or we shall bee found by iust examination and indifferent iudgement to haue been the authors and causers thereof And truly Sir wee would haue been vnwilling and very loath to haue defended our owne good names in any publicke manner because we could not possibly doe it without touching the imperfections of our owne deare brethren which in these hard times of persecution and in this lamentable affliction of our Church for the Catholicke faith we earnestly desire to spare and not to touch though with any reasonable losse to vs if our brethren would haue taken vp themselues in any time or haue kept any measure in afflicting vs. But you see our silence hath been so long our patience so great that thereby we haue not onely suffered much detriment in our credits and estimation throughout the realme but moreouer we haue lost many friends which through ignorance of our cause the violencie of religious men and seminarie priests with their adherents noted to run against vs are fallen from vs. This patience of ours also hath made which is the worst our aduersaries more audacious and violent in their vniust courses In all which proceedings of theirs we could neuer hope for stay or stint till they had vtterly ouerwhelmed our good names vnlesse in time we should make some lawfull resistance and encounter which though perhaps we haue vndertaken it too late yet we doubt not but in time we shall recouer some part of our losses and at the least in the iudgements of honest vertuous and indifferent persons bee freed from the infamies after they shall haue once examined and aduisedly waighed the cause on both sides without partiall and blinding affections In this onely our aduersaries haue the aduauntage of vs that they can easily couer the wrongs they doe vs with a plausible cloake and name of their religion and authoritie and with inuectiues against vs as against enemies to their order and disobedient to our owne superiours which two bad dispositions if thorow their slaunders they be once beleeued or conceiued to raigne in vs they must procure of necessitie vnto vs the auersions and hatred of all Catholicke people and honest natures VVe be Catholicke priests and albeit our carriage in Gods worke hath beene heretofore neuer so good and irreprehensible yet the very bare name or coat of religion and the very remembrance of authoritie swaieth much in mens opinions to the discredite of any that contend with religious persons and superiours although their cause bee neuer so iust and the actions of the religious or superiours bee most iniurious But yet who is he that experienced but a little in the affairs of both former and present ages can bee ignorant that the religious by too much seeking themselues may swarue from the perfection of charitie which they professe to run at and that men placed in authoritie may also transgresse the lawes of equitie in the execution of their office and then they are accustomed in the worst sort to oppresse their subiects when they most pretend iustice and in strongest manner sound forth the cries of their authoritie for better colouring therby their vniust violence And surely the abuse of authoritie is not to be feared nor suspected more at any time than when in controuersies refusing or hindering all iust all indifferent all ordinary triall by laws or comprimise they leane wholly to their authoritie and striue alone by it to ouerbeare and subdue their subiects And in like maner also the religious are then to be doubted most of sincere dealing when only by a vaine-glorious conceit or vaunt of their religious estate and perfection they iustifie themselues before the world and would beare out all they doe against their neighbours Thus farre in part we talked besides the answeres I made to euery particular report you told me of which I will here set downe and to auoid the tedious repetition of quoth you quoth I will deliuer the same vnder the names wee haue by our severall callings both of vs true Catholickes I a secular priest and you a VVor. lay Gentleman VVe began and did proceed as followeth Gent. The Iesuites with the Arch-priest and all their followers report that you and your adherents were schismatickes and rebellious to the sea Apostolicke and that still you are disobedient persons to lawfull authoritie and your superiours placed ouer you Pr. They report thus indeed but vnlesse they can prooue vs guiltie of these crimes their reports ought by all good
and to M. Doctor Bishops answer to the letter of Fa. Parson and for a firmer rocke whereon you or any may safely stay their judgement and resolue what you will adhere vnto till the contrarie be defined by gods Church to the graue censure of the Diuines of Paris For the sentence of that famous Vniuersitie doth acquit vs of schisme and sinne in our action of delay repelleth the vntrue flaunders cast against vs by our aduersaries and should cause all men of wisdome and gouernment both to temper their tongues in this case and to suspend their judgements For who is he that is wise and hath the feare of God before him that will aduenture either to condemne vs in his owne heart or to report vs in the world to be guiltie of schisme or sinne for our delay now after so many learned and famous Diuines of that Vniuersitie vpon mature deliberation and discussion of our case haue pronounced vs to be free from these objected slaunders Gent. I haue not seen as yet the reasons you speak of but I expect dayly to haue them And for the sentence of the Sorbonistes in Paris I haue seene it and me thinkes it justifieth your actions very greatly But against it I haue heard objected by your aduersaries First that the information was not truly set downe And again that their sentence is not to be respected in this case considering they be knowne aduersaries to the Iesuits and would be glad by any occasion to displeasure and discredite them Pr. VVhere they except against the censure of the Sorbonists that the case was wrongfully proposed it is a silly shift so fond childish also that euen the Iesuits owne friends are much ashamed thereof and all indifferent men hold it too too grosse and ridiculous For the case was propounded in such manifest and expresse tearmes and so truly and directly set downe that euen our aduersaries themselues can hardly find any way to make it seeme insufficient but shift haue they none at all to make it seeme vntruly deliuered And in this it is more fauorably set downe for them than for vs in that sundry of the cheefest reasons for which wee bare off to accept of that authoritie are passed ouer and omitted without any mention at all Gen. In troth me thinkes the case is very plainely and fully and with great indifferencie put downe and this shift of reprouing the information alwayes seemed to me and to many others a meere cavill or friuolous wrangling which is an vsuall thing to men that want substantiall matter to alleadge for excuse of their fault and when through lacke of humilitie they had rather stand to defend their owne errour than acknowledge it And in this case verily nothing more moued my selfe and diuers others to conceiue very well of you and your dealing in this controuersie and to feare some great defect of sinceritie in your aduersaries than the prohibition which the Iesuits and Archp. made against this censure of the Sorbonists that none should defend it no albeit it proceeded vpon true information of the cause For what other thing could men conceiue hereby but that the Archp. and Iesuits by whose aduise and direction he made and published that decree intended to suppresse the truth by their power and authoritie to beare you downe by strong hand and to ouer-rule our Church by their owne wils onely without regard of equitie reason or conscience Pr. VVhat should they doe but frame their building answerable to their foundation which they had laied at the first and make the progres of their work conformable with their beginning They had set vpon vs with great zeale and in the feruency of their spirit defamed vs of schisme they had made a most scandalous seperation from vs themselues and their adherents shunning vs in all conversation and communion as well in humane things as divine this once done what remained but to prosecute the matter with the same fervor and vehemencie of spirit as they had attempted it at the first They were in credite authoritie was on their side the world swayed with them were it right or wrong they did it should be borne out by the cloake of religion authoritie disobedience and friends And what durst a few poore disgraced priests make resistance durst they examine the actions of religious persons men of so rare perfection or mutter against the command and decrees of so extraordinarie a superiour It was not likely but in case they should giue the attempt no doubt but they should bee discredited and most seuerely punished to their eternall shame and confusion No marvell therefore if with this aduauntage and vpon this hope they were so earnest and so bold as to prohibite in that sort the defence of that sentence albeit the case were rightly propounded vnto these learned men Gent. Supposing the information to haue beene true the prohibition must of necessity be very grosse and farre out of square For besides that in the judgement of wise men it were to patronise erronious doctrine and bolster vp injurious dealing in them that vntruly defamed you of schisme it toucheth also the Divines of that famous Vniuersitie with no small discredit as hauing right information of the case to be men either so very ignorant and doltish that they could not judge and decide it rightly or else so void of grace and honestie that they would wittingly impugne a knowne truth Pr. So it is and certainely the second part of our aduersaries aunswere implieth a conceit of no lesse vile disposition to be in those diuines than this latter you spoke of For when they reject their censure and judge it worthie of no credit because as they say the Sorbonists are enemies to the Iesuits it implieth that they judge them to be men of that bad disposition that they will pronounce an erronious sentence contrary to their owne knowledge and conscience Gent. By my faith I thinke it implieth little lesse than so if a man may speake in plaine English Pr. Iudge you then how our aduersaries through their zeale in selfe-loue are caried headlong beyond all the limits of modestie and how they blush not to defend their erronious paradoxes with injuring any nor feare to cast disgrace vpon whosoeuer that for defence of truth shall stand in their way Gent. VVho would haue imagined that so daungerous an humour had reigned in men that pretend singular perfection in their state would be thoght mortified of their inordinat affections aboue al other either secular or religious Pr. Not I truly vnlesse too much experience had proued it so to be Gent. But the Iesuits seeme not to do any thing nor at all to intermeddle with the affaires of you seminarie priests but they referre all to the Arch-priest and therefore not they but he and his Assistants only deserue the blame if any thing be done amisse Pr. VVould to God it were so that they were not intermeddlers for then things would not haue
due and where their own interest may enter to encroach also what they may The subjects sufferance and yeelding to the force and injurie is often taken by the superiour for title good ynough for whatsoeuer he listeth by iniquitie to obtrude and claime Gent. Dayly experience proueth this to bee ouertrue in many superiours giue them an inch and usually they will take an ell vnlesse they be all the better disposed and seeke in their prelacie more the glorie of God and the good of their subjects than their owne interest Priest Now therefore let all supposals passe and let vs come to the facts themselues and by them judge what he and we haue done First it doth not appeare by the words of his commission That the Archp. hath any authoritie at all to make new lawes and decrees at his owne pleasure which may bind vs to obey them or for breaking whereof he may justly inflict vpon vs any penaltie at all By his commission he is placed ouer the seminarie priests in England and Scotland in the degree and authoritie of an Arch-priest but absolutely to make lawes and decrees with the seuerest penalties for such as violate them was neuer heard of in Gods church to belong to the office of an Archpriest only by vertue of his cōmission he may Dirigere admonere reprehendere vel etiam castigare cum opus crit Direct admonish reprehend or chastice also when need shall bee but there is no word of making new lawes and decrees and therefore it is to be supposed that in all these points of his authority he is exactly to obserue the lawes of Gods church to which we yeelded our selues when we vndertook our Ecclesiasticall estate and not to his will and that he ought to proceed according to the ordinary course of Ecclesiasticall Canon already set downe to his hand and not he to lay vpon vs at his pleasure new burdens and bonds more rigorous and intollerable than are vsed in any part of the Christian world besides If he make lawes and decrees not hauing authoritie so to doe they are of no force to bind vs to obey and consequently it is no disobedience to resist them Gent. This must needs be thus if he haue no authoritie to make new lawes and decrees Pr. Surely as far as we can perceiue by the words of his Commission he hath none at all Gent. Then are you freed from the slaunderous report of disobedience for not obseruing his decrees and precepts Pr. I hope we be But yet further let vs suppose he had full authoritie to make decrees doth this proue that we are disobedient if wee refuse to obey and resist them Gent. Me thinke it doth Priest Doth it so what will you say that vnjust decrees are to bee obeyed or perhaps thinke you that this Archp. is so infallibly assisted by Gods spirit that he can make no decrees but just and good Gent. No I will neither affirme nor thinke either of these twaine For it is manifest that injust hurtfull lawes as they are not to be accounted lawes so are they not to be obeyed And againe the Archp. is a man subject to errors as others be and then especially an error is to be feared when being a partie in controuersies hee goeth about to decree any thing prejudicial to his aduersaries for in these cases aboue all the rest self-loue draweth him from indifferency and enclineth him to respect cheefely his owne particular And on the other side a mind auersed from his aduersaries spurneth him forward to deuise against them partiall and greeuous decrees Pr. The Archpr. cannot with any shew or colour of reason charge vs with disobedience to him except onely in that we obey not his decrees we acknowledge him for our Arch-priest and to haue as ample jurisdiction ouer vs as by his commission hee can claime In all things we are ready to obey him wherin he hath authoritie to commaund This one thing through his owne and the Iesuits renuing it after it was once forgiuen and ended resteth in controuersie between him them and vs to wit VVhether by reason of our delay to accept the authoritie before it was confirmed by the Popes Breue wee incurred the crimes of enormious disobedience rebellion and schisme against the See Apostolicke or no. He and they auerre we did we denie it hee and they haue slaundered and doe continually defame vs as guiltie of those sinnes faigned by themselues VVe haue stood and stand in defence of our assured innocencie and thinke it most violent iniquitie to bereaue vs of our good names vpon a priuat opinion of their owne before our cause either at home or abroad be orderly heard and tried and we also condemned by Gods Church Hee and they forbid vs vnder most greeuous penalties to defend our selues from their calumnies or our good names from their vndeserued slaunders in which prohibition because it is very injust we know our selues no way bound in conscience to obey them He and they cease not to wrong vs they keepe no measure nor meane in doing vs injuries but dayly oppresse vs with the heauiest and plainely intollerable afflictions we being denied all hearing triall of our cause at home flie by appeale to his Holinesse He and they exclaiming against this our fact heap vpon vs all disgrace and punishments we arme our selues with patience against the worst Now you see all our disobedience to the Arch-priest is in these two points First in that wee defend our good names against his and the Iesuits manifest slanders Againe in that we appeale to his Ho. for ending the controuersie wherein the Archp. is a principall partie and our violent aduersarie Both these I confesse are directly against the Archp. his will and decrees for his decrees are as I said that wee should not defend the schisme and rebellion wherewith he and the Iesuits haue defamed vs and that wee shall not appeale without his license But to defend ones owne good name injustly taken away is lawfull by the law of Nature it selfe and to appeale to the See Apostolicke from the injust oppressions of any superiour in the world yea without his license and against his will hath euer been and will bee alwayes lawfull in the Church of God and consequently it cannot be truly judged in vs any disobedience to the Archp. when we resist him and his decrees in those cases For as he can make no law to subuert the law of Nature touching the defence of a mans owne good name so can hee make no decree to prohibite or to hinder appeales from himselfe to the Pope and whatsoeuer he decreeth in these cases are of their owne nature frustrate and not to be obeyed by any Gent. It is evident that this report of your disobedience and rebellion against the Archpr. is a meer calumnie if you disobey him in no other decrees but these wherein if you should obey him you should shew your selues very foolish yea very culpable
hereticall or an euill prince VVhat can they say to the Bishops and Pastours in the Low countries and the Vniuersities of Doway whom they reckon to be their aduersaries by reason of the great contentions had betweene them about eight yeares ago VVhat to the Vniuersities of Louaine with whome they haue had bickering since VVhat to the whole order of Dominicans letting passe other religious betweene whom and them there hath been of long as is continuall bitter strifes in Spaine as all the world knoweth And all these included in Fa. Parsons ougly beadroll If all these be of bad disposition and gracelesse because they be the Iesuits aduersaries then haue we also good cause to dread but if contrariwise these be reported to be their aduersaries and are indeed no lesse than we and yet knowne to be good Catholick men Vniuersities and orders it is no true cause of disgrace vnto vs if we be reported also their aduersaries for defending our selues against their violent injuries and for resisting their other courses manifestly hurtfull to our whole church Gent. VVhat is the cause that they make these troubles and giue such discontent almost in euery place where they come Pr. Surely not any perfection of vertue that is in them aboue other religious men but their polliticke tampering and their busie stirring both in temporall states and Ecclesiasticall For they being not tied to keepe the quire with diuine offices as other religious orders bee they haue more leisure and libertie than any other to occupie themselues in matters impertinent vnto them It is their glorie to bee euer stirring in the greatest affaires and with the greatest personages where they come yea they delight so much in the actiue life that their young men are no sooner out of their nouiceship or course in learning but if there be ought in them they begin to tamper and to become polliticke and must be thought sufficient to mannage any businesse I remember I haue read in an Italian hystorie written by a gentleman of Genua touching the late king of Portugall Sebastian and the competitors to that crowne after his death how the Iesuits greatly fauoured by that king disturbed not a little the peace of that kingdome by their tampering in the princes affaires where the author noteth how with great indiscretion as vpon a head and suddainely they would haue reformed the corrupt manners of the countrey Againe how by the Cardinals meanes they procured the displacing of some auncient officers about the king and brought in such as depended on themselues to no small discontentment of many And lastly how especially vpon the Iesuits motion and persuasion the king entertained the Affricane affaires and resolued to vndertake that fatall voyage from which yet they could not afterwards dissuade him when it was misliked and thought daungerous by all his friends This Historie is now in English See page 9. 10. 11. c. because they had set him too farre in liking therwith before But at the last they wrought themselues out of fauour with the king as he sayth for they would ouerrule all Gent. I would see that hystorie Pr. I thinke you may haue it in England it is in Octauo and printed in Italie as I remember Gent. By likelyhood then this busie intermeddling of theirs in Vniuersities in kingdomes in the charges of Bishops and Pastours c. is the cheefe cause why they worke these troubles euery where Pr. Verely I thinke it be For among them he is most esteemed that can shew himself most politicke most stirring and vndertaking especially with greatest estates and highest matters Gent. These humours are not in them all For I know diuers of them very good simple and vertuous men which trouble their heads with nothing except their studie and deuotion Pr. There be some of them no doubt such as you say continuing in the simplicitie and good zeale wherewith they first entered and encreasing their spirituall graces These though they must sooth the humors of the rest and in all things defend their actions yet delight not to be busie and stickling in others mens affaires and indeed these be the glorie of their societie and deserue loue and honour aboue the rest But there be few of this sort considering it is a credit among themselues to be actiue and politick and no small contention who may bee thought most to excell in these Gent. Yet many good men thinke much and marvell what should be the cause why you secular priests should be aduersaries to the Iesuits haue contentions with them and especially with Fa. Parsons who is most esteemed of among the Iesuits for his wisdome and other good parts and who also hath wrought great good to our Nation by his booke of Resolution which argueth him to bee a vertuous man and by erecting Semenaries for the education of our yong men And generally the Iesuits seek not their owne temporall benefit but bestow themselues onely for the good of others many say that without them our Church had bene in worse case than it is Againe that it is but a slaunder that they entermeddle in the mattets of you secular priests or that they haue any dealings in the affaires of temporall estates It is no just cause giuen you by them but your own vnmortified passions and disobedient minds to your lawfull superiors which make you to repine and mammer and to exclaime against them Priest For the Iesuits in generall I neuer said nor thought other but that if they keepe themselues onely at these good exercises of preaching of ministring sacraments without prejudice to the ordinarie Pastors of catechising of teaching in schooles of visiting the sicke and liuing as brethren and fellow labourers in Gods worke seeke the estimation of the secular cleargie among their people I neuer thoght I say but that they be very profitable coadjutors in Christs church and deserue loue and reuerence of all sorts But if withall they become officious sticklers in princes affaires Ecclesiasticall or temporall or busie themselues with entermedling in the secular Cleargies matters which belong not to them and seeke to aduaunce themselues in credit and otherwise aboue the priests as in England they haue done I then thinke them very dangerous and noysome members in any church for the subuersion of peace and good order because vpon that disposition forthwith they bring in great deuisions and draw both priests and people into lamentable factions as is manifest in this poore realme At VVisbich you haue heard how they made very scandalous contentions about establishing a superioritie in one of theirs aboue all the other prisoners You haue heard also how they hindered the vnion of secular priests in a confraternitie how they withstood our endeuors touching Bishops or Suffraganes how without our consents or priuitie they procured an Arch-priest to be ordained ouer all English priests in England and Scotland they onely appointing what kind of superioritie and gouernement our Church should haue and
chusing the man which should be superior notably abusing his Hol. and our whole Cleargie in that action and very cunningly hereby preuenting that no superiour should be ouer them within the realme VVho but they enforced the same authoritie which themselues onely had deuised and fraudulently obtained VVho enforced it vpon our Clergie with violence and threats but they and this before it was confirmed by his Holinesse VVho wrongfully defamed the priests that bare off to receiue it before the confirmation came to bee schismatickes rebels c. but the Iesuits and others by their setting on VVho after all was pacified renewed the same slaunder and infamie against the priests that for charitie sake had forgiuen it but the Iesuits in England and at Rome and the Archp. by their aduise VVho haue continued the strife by refusing all conferences friendly debatings disputes meetings and so many most reasonable offers and indifferent conditions of peace and ending all as we haue made And who sought to ouerbeare vs all by strong hand without respect of equitie and conscience but the Iesuits and the Archpriest directed by them VVho haue most vncharitably injuried our priests by suspensions by depriuation of faculties by in just decrees by hereauing them of their maintenance of their friends and places of entertainement and harbour and all this without triall or proofe of any crime at all or admitting them to answere or citing them to appeare but Iesuits abusing the Archp. his authoritie For by his instructions as I haue said before he is to doe nothing without the Iesuits aduise and direction in any matter of importance the good men prouiding that not onely they should be exempted from all subjection and subordination to him and his authoritie but also that themselues should beare the greatest stroke in the execution thereof VVhat belonged all these matters to them if they had been content to stand within their owne bounds They are religious men by their particular societie and profession seperated from the secular cleargie and making a distinct bodie of themselues By the rule of their order not to take roomes of prelacie among the Cleargie of the secular rank VVhat then did it appertaine to them to chuse the manner of our gouernement or to appoint who should bee superiour to vs It cannot doubtlesse bee defended from a malapart and presumptuous attempt which is an inseparable proprietie of their busie entermedling humour Gent. They were priests labouring in this haruest with you and seeing this authoritie needfull they might procure it without blame Pr. They are priests indeed but they bee exceeding cunning pollitickes withall It was not the good nor peace of our church they aimed at in procuring this authoritie For then they would haue wrought with our consent and liking and the matter should not haue been shuffled vp in darkenesse as it was but that by this meane they might domineere ouer vs and themselues be freed from all subjection of our prelates They are priests and our fellow labourers so be we to them also this required at the most that we might admit them to joyne with vs in aduise about these elections as wee did in all things but it could neuer priuiledge them to enterprise and contriue these matters against our wils or without our consents and priuitie a great many of vs hauing laboured in the haruest as much as they others hauing toiled farre aboue them and as it were the whole burden and weight of the worke lying vpon our shoulders and not vpon theirs especially where painefull trauaile and pouertie is to be sustained They would scorne no doubt yea exceedingly disdaine and bestirre themselues if we priests their fellowes in this worke should presume to ouer-reach as they haue done and put our sickle into their haruest to appoint without their consents or knowledge what gouernment and superiour they should haue and yet wee with as much reason might doe this as they haue done the other Thus you see there is ouer-much cause giuen vs by them of greefe and discontentment Moreouer in this point they shewed another policie Gent. VVhat is that Pr. Marry there bee often in our Church large sums of money giuen in almes ad pios vsus we know they are granted and bequeathed but few are better for them they passe God knoweth whither but they are inuisible to poore Priests and prisoners Gent. Perhaps they come not to the Iesuits hands Priest I wish they did not more than their equall share But it is noted that either all or the most great summes come to the fingering of certaine lay men most intirely deuoted and familiar with the Iesuits the disposition of which men is thought to be sincere and iust and not willing to disperse the almes but as the Iesuits shall appoint or approoue VVee know the Iesuits to abound in all things the Priests and poore Catholicks in many places and the prisoners generally to suffer penurie more than euer they did Now if wee had in our Church Bishops or Suffraganes chosen by the free voyces of our Cleargie can you thinke these summes should be permitted thus vnprofitably to vanish away or that the exceutors should not be brought to their accounts or that the Iesuites should haue all the stroke in the distributions or that their shares should exceed the poore mens in so great inequalitie as a pound is to a pennie There was neuer greater almes giuen than hath beene within these foure or fiue yeeres in which the Iesuits haue borne the greatest sway and yet there hath neuer beene the like wants among poore Catholicke priests and amongst poore Catholickes in prison and abroad and in the seminarie at Doway as hath bene in these yeeres and still remaineth It is wonderfull to consider which way it goeth The Iesuits indeed abound in all things but I will not charge them with bad dealing let the supposition plead thus or so as men conceiue of it Gent. I will not condemne them neither But yet I haue heard of one Iesuit that hath worne a girdle with hangers and rapier aboue ten pound a jerken also that cost no lesse and also that had made him two sutes of apparrell in one yeare and all very costly whose horse furniture his owne apparrell on him was valued to an hundred pounds one who for his part by the report of his brother dispendeth yearly 400 li yet hath no patrimonie If some few more of thē be as wastful as this one no maruaile if great sums make little releefe among the poore Pr. In this point therefore they dealt politickely when they hindred vs of ordinary pastours and prelats that in all things themselues might run without checke or controuler Thus they seeke to benefit others and not their owne Gent. Yea but M. Blackwell the Archp. writ to Cardinall Caietane That the Iesuits sell their patrimonies to maintaine themselues and others Priest This is a meere fiction to set out the Iesuits with a vaine
contentions pollicies contempt of priests falshoods in fellowship a distrust or a feare each of other slaunders infamies and a generall decay of vertue and deuotion as now the matter is brought vnto and had neuer ben likely to haue entered if they had not come amongst vs. And sure I am that the cheefe noursey of our church that is the Seminarie of Doway is exceedingly decaied since the Iesuits had the mannaging of things especially of the almes purse in England And for the Seminarie also in Rome no man can reprooue vs of an vntruth if wee say that it in like sort hath suffered no small detriment since the death of Cardinall Allen. Gent. But these losses are recompenced abundantly by the erection of new Colledges in Spaine by Father Parsons Priest It is a vain glorious boast and a fiction The losse receiued in those two Seminaries is not recompenced in halfe by all that Fa. Parsons hath done as by and by I shall declare Touching that part of their report where it is maruelled why we should bee aduersaries to the Iesuits I haue answered it sufficiently before Now it remaineth that wee speake of Fa. Parsons VVhat say you of him Gent. Marry many thinke it strange you should be at dissention with him hee beeing a man so well thought of and esteemed both in his owne order and by the most that know him his booke of Resolution argueth him to be a holy man and his endeuours in erecting Seminaries for our countrey sheweth that he is both a good man and most carefull for the good of our countrey and to bee far from doing any of you wrong in the least thing that may be c. Pr. If Fa. Parsons haue deepely wronged vs men need not to wonder that there should bee contentions betweene him and vs. It is no whit likely that we should stomacke the man or contend with him vnlesse he had giuen vs cause VVee will therefore discusse this point and touch all the rest which you haue mentioned for his commendation but let vs take them in order as you spoke them For the credit and estimation he hath among men of his owne order it is with some of them good and with others very meane and they all generally repute him to be very polliticke and of a busie and stirring disposition more desirous in all things to draw all men to his owne will yea and violently to enforce thereto such as be weaker than hee is to follow any other mans aduise or course I know some Iesuits his seniors in religion men of better talent than he who looking into his peremptorie and headie courses haue often censured thus vpon him That he was too contentious and wilfull and that it were better for their religion and the world also that hee were shut vp for euer in some religious house than to bee stickling abroad and tampering in all matters as hee dooth which must of necessitie in the end turne to the harme of many and to the discredit of their society after his deuises come to light Also I haue credibly heard that others should often complaine and say of him That their societie was more troubled and disquieted yea and discredited by the deuises and importunitie of one Englishman Father Parsons than by all the men of other countries besides for hee neuer ceaseth wrangling and contending with one or other and with many at once I haue my selfe heard a Scottish Iesuit farre his auncient in the societie of a good account to inveigh greatly against Father Parsons violent nature and courses and to condemne his polliticke and cunning entermedling in all matters to the hurt of many and to the discredit of their order Father Holts and Fa. Hawoods opinion of him was these Iesuits I name because they be dead that he was of a violent and imperious disposition in most things and with the most men hee dealt with neuer quiet vnlesse hee ouer-ruled all exquisit cunning with flatterie and fawning to bring others to his bend and if this would not win them then to be most fierce and violent vtterly to breake them that should stand in his way The religious Fa. hath found many occasions and deuised many shifts these twentie yeares and more that hee might liue abroad out of his order and be employed to sollicite affaires in princes courts or to haue rule and commaund in Colledges And the conceit he carrieth of his owne wit and sufficiencie maketh him to attempt any thing and euer to bee vnwilling to condescend to any mans aduise but his owne The men of his owne societie also note this in him That hee hath a speciall regard to haue the whole managing of English affaires and that no other of his bretheren how auncient wise or learned soeuer shall communicat with him in these matters or haue any dealing vnlesse they yeeld themselues in euery point to follow his directions and courses and be wholly at his commaundement And they say this only to be the cause why he hath hindered all the grauest and most sufficient English Iesuits beyond the seas to come into the realme or to entermeddle in the wielding of our Churches affaires least forsooth they should refuse to follow his deuises and by a more discreet and temperate course both win from him the credit and beare away the principal stroke and commaund Thus much for the estimation he hath among many good men of his owne societie Gent. There be very many yet which thinke well of him Priest No doubt but diuers thinke better of him than he deserueth or than they would do when they shall come to vnderstand his vncharitable deuises and what discredit hee hath brought both vpon our English church and vpon his owne societie by his cunning and intemperat dealing In the meane while they will like him well as long as hee standeth them in stead either in England Spaine or elswhere Gent. He is much esteemed in Spaine and in Rome by all the Spanish fauourites Pr. He is so and no marvell it is For what prince would not much esteeme a man that can entitle him and his to the kingdome of England raise vp a broken claime from before two hundred yeares and so handle the matter with a cunning flourish that it must bee made to seeme the best and likeliest of all that haue been since For not onely hee aduaunceth the surmised Spanish Title but disgraceth in what he may and weakeneth all the rest This his plotting about the crowne and kingdome of England and sharing it to the Ladie Infanta with deuising probable meanes as he persuadeth them to effect his plot made him very famous and highly esteemed in that nation and woon to him such singular grace of the old King the Ladie Infanta and all their friends that his word might doe much in any matter either to pleasure his friend or displeasure his aduersary Hence also doth proceed the fauour and credit he hath with the Embassadour of Spaine and