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A41319 An answer to Mr. Thomas Grantham's book, called, A dialogue between the Baptist and the Presbyterian by Martin Finch. Finch, Martin, 1628?-1698. 1691 (1691) Wing F942; ESTC R7436 100,803 186

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and spiritual judge which Doctrine gives grounds of most Encouragement Support and Comfort if the Lord please to set it home by his Spirit CHAP. VI. Of God's Eternal Decrees what should come to pass in Time and of his governing and disposing of things in the World for his own Glory THis Author in his Epistle to his Book falls upon the Assembly of Divines concerning God's Decrees and according to the manner of the Man leaves out that which should clear their Sense and Meaning that so he might expose them The Words in the Assembly's Confession are these God from all Eternity did by the most wise and holy Counsel of his own Will freely and unchangeably ordain whatsoever comes to pass yet so as thereby neither is God the Author of Sin nor is Violence offered to the Will of the Creatures nor is the Liberty or Contingency of Second Causes taken away but rather established This Article is almost word for word the same with the Eleventh Article of the Episcopal Divines in Ireland 1615. long before the Assembly at Westminster so that one would think it was taken thence God from all Eternity did by his Vnchangeable Counsel ordain whatsoever in Time should come to pass yet so as thereby no Violence is offered to the Wills of the Reasonable Creatures neither the Liberty nor the Contingency of the Second Causes taken away The Reader may see what a Harmony there is about God's Decrees between the old Episcopal Divines and the Assembly of Divines at Westminster There have been two sorts of Atheists in the World the first sort of Atheists denied the Existence and Being of God the second sort of Atheists denied God's governing the World the Lord keep this Age from being Atheists either of these ways If the Evills of Afflictions that befall us came merely by Second Causes and Instruments and were not determined and decreed by God how should we sanctifie God's Name and humble our selves under the mighty Hand of God As Job did when he said The Lord hath given and the Lord hath taken away Blessed be the Name of the Lord. This Men drive at in this Atheistical Age to throw down the Soveraignty Independency and Immutability of God to make him change in his Purposes and Intentions as Men do and to make Contingencies to God as there is to Man It is come to this daring Boldness that Men have asserted in Print that God hath not determined the Period of Men's Lives nor other things of that nature But who I pray shall order what shall come to pass but that blessed God who hath made àll things for himself for his own Glory for the Glory of his Wisdom Power Justice and Mercy And who is fit to govern the World but he that made it Ay but the great Objection that blinds the Ignorant is That if God have from Eternity decreed all things that come to pass then he hath decreed that Men shall fall into those Sins that they do fall into Answer And what then Do not we say that yet God is not the Author or Approver of Sin neither is there any Violence offered to the Will of the Creatures Men sin as freely as if there were no Decree of God to leave them to commit those Sins We say that God's Decrees are not the Cause of Sin neither is God the Author of Sin Nihil isto contradicentius aut impossibilius nempe Deum esse Authorem peccati Nothing is more contradictory or impossible than this Proposition that God is the Author of Sin saith Dr. Twisse Yet he is one that this Author puts in his Black Bill Well but this Author scrapes together several Passages quoted by Mr. Pierce and other Writers out of Calvin Luther Zuinglius Beza and others which are very strange concerning God's determining Men's Sins What do you say to these Expressions I answer 1. That Mr. Pierce and this Author might have spent their Time better than to quarrel with Calvin Luther and those eminent Instruments in the Reformation This is very pleasing to the Papists and those that are Popishly affected for they hate the Names of Calvin Luther Zuinglius and those Divines that God made use of to communicate so much Light to the World And if this Author knows it not I will now tell him that Bellarmine long since in his Writings doth inveigh against them upon this very Account concerning God's Decrees and Over-ruling Hand about the Sins of Men. 2. I say I shall not meddle with any of his Quotations One may cut out Snips out of Authors whereby the true Sense and Meaning of the Authors may be quite altered 3. I say I shall not take upon me to justifie all the Phrases and Expressions of Learned and Godly Men They may sometimes in haste express themselves not so prudently and warily in such a tremendous Mystery as this is The truth is God's mysterious Administration concerning Sin in ordering and over-ruling it to his own Glory is past our finding out 'T is best to say O the Depth And that to be sure though we cannot comprehend it he is righteous in all his Ways and holy in all his Works I would have all Persons very cautious about this Point both of the one side and the other and keep close to Scripture-Expressions which I shall now set before this Author and those of his Way and do fear that till they learn more Sobriety Awe and Reverence of God they would openly quarrel against the Scripture it self in this Matter if they durst Let us then hear what the Scripture saith in this Matter When Joseph's Brethren did wickedly and unnaturally sell him into Egypt Gen. 45.5 saith Joseph God sent me before you to preserve Life And Ver. 7. God sent me before you to preserve you a Posterity in the Earth And Gen. 50.20 But as for you ye thought evil against me but God meant it for good 1 King 22.19 20 21 22 23. And he said Hear thou therefore the Word of the Lord I saw the Lord sitting on his Throne and all the Host of Heaven by him on his Right Hand and on the Left And the Lord said Who shall persuade Ahab to go up and fall at Ramoth Gilead And one said on this manner and another said on that manner And there came forth a Spirit and stood before the Lord and said I will persuade him And the Lord said Wherewith And he said I will go forth and be a Lying Spirit in the Mouth of all his Prophets And he said Thou shalt persuade him and prevail also Go forth and do so Now therefore the Lord hath put a Lying Spirit in the Mouth of all these thy Prophets and the Lord hath spoken Evil concerning thee Exod. 4.21 And the Lord said unto Moses When thou goest to return into Egypt see that thou do all these Wonders before Pharaoh which I have put in thine Hand but I will harden his Heart that he shall not let the People
effectually for all those for whom he dyed that he will certainly and infallibly bring them to Grace and Glory have no cause to be ashamed of their Doctrine Those that maintain that no man can come to Christ except the Father draw him and that with such a drawing as that they shall freely and yet most certainly and infallibly come to Christ and be eternally saved have truth on their side And all the Sophistry Cavils and Evasions of Arminians are as nothing to overthrow this Doctrine Whosoever shall observe the Book that I answer will find that this Author doth scarce attempt to argue and prove any thing except it be in a very few places but only raises outcries against others Therefore what I have written is only occasioned by this Author to clear up these points rather than to answer any Arguments he hath produced for his opinions but that little Argument he hath used I have taken into consideration If any Reader thinks that I have now and then used too much sharpness against this Author he may be pleased to take notice that those that know me can testifie that I have a greater Latitude as to any rigid judging of men as to their Eternal Estates because they hold many erroneous opinions than some others have Those that are truly built upon Christ upon his Merits and Righteousness as their Foundation though they may in their Superstructure have much Hay and Stubble yet God will graciously pardon them in Christ But when this Author tramples not only upon the Assembly of Divines but upon Calvin Zuinglius Beza and many other Divines of the Reformed Churches and extolls Michael Servetus one of the greatest Blasphemers of the Sacred Trinity that ever was in the World It may be some Readers will think I have not been sharp enough against such a confident Boysterous person There is printed with this Authours a Book of Mr. Haggars I never heard of the person or of his Book before though it seems it hath been printed five times It may be it hath been answered or none have thought it worth the answering The Book is almost nothing but Errours and Mistakes I do not remember that ever I read a Book more confused or where the Author sheweth himself more ignorant of the true meaning of the Scriptures he makes use of except it were in some Books of the Quakers The Apostle Paul saith Ephes 1.3 4 5. Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ who hath blessed us with all Spiritual Blessings in heavenly places in Christ according as he hath chosen us in him before the Foundation of the World was laid The Apostle there sheweth 1. That there are Spiritual Blessings bestowed upon some These Spiritual Blessings are effectual Calling Justification Adoption Perseverance in Grace and the Heavenly inheritance 2. He shews that all these Spiritual Blessings are conferred upon us through the Lord Jesus Christ the Mediator as the Meritorious cause God purposed to do all for the Heirs of Salvation in and through him 3. He shews the Eternal Designation of the persons that shall in due time partake of these Spiritual Blessings he saith they were chosen in Christ before the foundation of the World 4. He shews that they were not chosen upon any foresight of their Holiness by improving those common helps they had equal with others but that God chose them that they might be Holy that is he would in due time give them Faith and Holiness And this is yet more evident from v. 5. having predestinated that is fore-ordained us to the Adoption of Children by Jesus Christ according to the good pleasure of his Will So that it is most manifest that those whom God chose he chose them so as that he would himself make them holy and that the moving cause was not any worthiness or towardliness in them which God foresaw But the Apostle saith it was the good pleasure of Gods will his especial undeserved free Love and good will to their persons that was the moving cause of their Election Now let the Reader observe what this Author saith to this Scripture Though God calleth men elect from the Foundation of the World yet they are not elect until the very day of their Conversion and turning from Sin to God for God calleth things that are not as if they were From whence it is evident they were not elected though so called page 2. What a strange passage is this As much as to say though the Scripture saith it was so yet it was not so well but saith this Author it is said of Abraham Rom. 4.17 As it is written I have made thee a Father of many Nations before him whom he believed even God who quickens the dead and calleth things that are not as if they were Now saith this Author Abraham was not yet a Father of many Nations but it was so before God who calleth things that are not as if they were For the understanding of this Scripture 1. Observe that though it was but at that time spoken of and declared to Abraham Gen. 17.4 5. that he should be a Father of many Nations yet God hath made and appointed him so to be from Eternity Tho' Gods Decrees and Intentions what he will do are manifested to men in time yet they are all from Eternity 2. Observe that when God did declare to Abraham his Eternal Counsel that he should be a Father of many Nations Abrahams Body was dead as to Masculine Vigour But the Apostle shews that nothing can hinder Gods Purposes and Decrees for God quickneth the Dead dead Souls and dead Bodies when he pleases and calleth things that are not as if they were that is calleth for what he pleaseth and it is done As in the Creation God did but say Let there be Light and there was Light The Apostle is shewing Gods Omnipotency That God having appointed Abraham to be a Father of many Nations nothing can hinder his eternal purpose for saith the Apostle he quickens the dead and calleth things that are not as if they were Ut majorem ejus rei facilitatem in deo declaret to shew the great facility of this Work to God to whom it is as easy to make any thing to be as it is for us to call for a thing and easier too as one Expositor notes well upon the place So that this Author quite mistakes the meaning of the place for God did not tell Abraham that he was a Father of many Nations when he was not But God told him that he had made him that is appointed him so to be which should be performed in the appointed Time and Season by his Omnipotency against all natural impossibilities because he is the Almighty God that quickneth the dead and calleth things that are not as if they were When he calleth for any thing to be done to be effected according to his purpose it exists the same moment The Context in Rom. 4. with other
upon themselves This is to reflect upon the Presbyterians who he had said before are punished by their own Pens I pray God that you as well as others may not be punished for your Pen for your Writings Lord enter not into Judgment with any of us but pardon us for Christ's sake And as to those words you quote God shall shoot at them suddenly shall they be wounded How do you apply these words to the Presbyterians against whom you write They hope to be pardoned and saved by the Free Grace of God in Christ God might shoot at them and you with an Arrow Let us have a care of being proud Pharisees And truly you seem to shoot your Arrow against the Sovereignty of the God of Heaven have a care it doth not fall upon your own Head You do as it were arraign God at your Bar about his Lordship over the Creature and he must do so and so or else he is not Just Repent and turn to God lest he arraign you at his Bar-Tremble at this word at this Scripture you have set down And for making mens Tongues fall upon themselves let us all fear and tremble Those upon whom God is pleased to bestow such Grace as that they say from their Hearts that they do not stand upon terms with God but acknowledge God might have had no thoughts of Eternal Love to them but might have decreed to leave them to their sins and to glorifie his Justice upon them for ever and that if it had not been for special discriminating Grace they had never come to Christ tho' they had those common helps that others think are sufficient I say these are not so like to have their Tongues fall upon themselves another day as those that say That notwithstanding any thing that God freely decreed as to their particular persons and notwithstanding any thing Christ did for them in Redemption or the Holy Ghost in working upon their Hearts they might have been damned but their own Will had the Casting-Voice and was so towardly that they shall be saved When those that God on his part did every way as much as for them do perish in Hell for ever CHAP. II. A Vindication of Dr. Collings from the Errour that this Author charges upon him THE Author of this Dialogue visiting these Parts first wrote a Contentious Letter to Mr. B. K. Then next he falls upon that Learned and Pious Divine Dr. Collings who is now at rest with the Lord. Tho' the Dr. was dead yet this Author must print what had passed about this Controversie And tho' the Ignorant and Erroneous may think he hath done great matters against the Dr. yet he hath done nothing at all Yea this Author gives up the Cause to the Dr. in his second Letter in these words Page 7. You cannot fairly collect from my Paper that God can be resisted in the thing wherein he will act Omnipotently for then he should cease to be God Now this is the very thing that the Dr. maintained in his Book and in his Answer to this Author's Letter So that this Author's Tongue hath fallen upon himself Psalm 115.3 Our God is in the Heavens he hath done whatsoever he pleased Isa 46.10 My Counsel shall stand and I will do all my Pleasure When any say that God acts Omnipotently in this or that which he purposes in himself to do I suppose none have such gross conceptions of God as to think that God is hardly put to it to effect any thing that he pleases to do When we read of God's Right-hand and the exceeding greatness of his Power in some Acts of God 't is only to shew the greatness of those Works above some other Works of God but not at all to shew that God is hardly put to it to do those Works It is as easie for God who is Omnipotent to do the greatest Work that he pleases to do as to do the least Works he pleases to do He doth all things that he pleases to do with the greatest facility He made the World with the word of his Power He upholds it as long as he pleases with the word of his Power He converts Souls by the word of his Power He raises the dead by the word of his Power His willing in this sense is his effecting what he Wills He doth whatsoever he pleases to do as easily and more easily than we can speak a word But still I fear this Author doth not understand what he saith and what others say in this matter for if he had he would have done with this Contention For he adds Doth God never act Seriously when he doth not act Omnipotently I answer As for such a phrase as God acting Seriously I do not love to use it It seems to me that tho' we use such an expression as to Men yet I think it is below the Divine Majesty and the Dr. using that word in his Book you catch at it and it is all the advantage you have against him What Man upon Earth not infallibly inspired but may sometimes use a word that may not be so proper but for that which the Dr. intended in that expression in his Book and explained in his Letter it will stand against you and all the World That is Whatsoever the great and glorious God hath purposed and intended he will do shall certainly be effected by his glorious Power That which this Author does not understand which would set his Judgment right in this Controversie is this There are Laws Precepts and Commands of God whereby he shews what is our duty to do This we may call the Will of God in respect of Precepts and Commands to us what we ought to do But then the Will of God is often taken in another sense for his Eternal Purpose what he will do in us for us and with us and this is always effected in the time appointed by him God's Will in respect of his Precepts or Commands is that none should sin at all but God did not purpose to keep every one from sinning no he did not purpose to keep the Elect from all sin after their Conversion in this life so far as God purposed to restrain sin in any he doth effect it Tho' the Creatures don't do what he commands them to do yet he always doth effect and doth whatsoever he purposes to do in them for them or with them How the Dr. quoting those words Rom. 9.19 For who hath resisted his Will You make those words to be the words of some Caviller and Objector and you say that the Dr. and you have resisted God's Will I answer The Apostle had said in the verse before Therefore hath he mercy on whom he will have mercy and whom he will he hardeneth Now let it be so that the whole of the 19th Verse is the Allegation of one that objects against God's giving Grace or denying Grace to particular persons as he pleases Yet observe tho' the Apostle
perfect Redemption Propitiation and Satisfaction for all the Sins of the whole World both Original and Actual They having before asserted the Doctrine of God's Eternal Election of some this Article may fairly be interpreted that Christ is a perfect Redemption Propitiation and Satisfaction for all the Sins of the whole World of the Elect or of all the Elect in all Ages and of all Nations throughout the whole World and for them only and their words being well considered will constrain such an Interpretation To be sure they did not hold that all Mankind should be saved and therefore saying that Christ is a perfect Redemption Propitiation and Satisfaction for all the Sins of the whole World they cannot be understood to mean any more than this that there is no other name under Heaven by which Men can be saved but the name of Jesus Christ there is not Salvation in any other It is he alone that is a Perfect Redemption Propitiation and Satisfaction for Sin so that whoever are saved in any Age or Place throughout the whole World are saved by him only 2. The first Articles of the Church of England being not so explicit and plain about Predestination and Arminianism being broached there was a meeting at Lambeth-house on the 20th Day of November 1595. now almost an hundred Years since There was John Archbishop of Canterbury Richard Bishop of London Richard Elect Bishop of Bangor Dr. Tindal Dean of Ely Dr. Whitaker Professor of Divinity in Cambridge and sundry other Reverend and Learned Divines there present with the concurrent Approbation of of the Right Reverend and Learned Prelate Matthew Archbishop of York for the determining certain Arminian Points of Controversie they composed agreed upon and published these Nine Assertions following 1. Deus ab aeterno praedestinavit quosdam ad vitam quosdam reprobavit ad mortem 1. God from Eternity hath predestinated certain Men to Life he hath reprobated some unto Death 2. Causa movens aut efficiens Praedestinationis ad vitam non est praevisio fidei aut bonorum operum aut ullius rei quae insit in personis praedestinatis sed sola voluntas beneplaciti Dei 2. The moving or efficient cause of predestination unto Life is not the foresight of Faith or of good Works or of any thing that is in the persons predestinated but only the good Will and Pleasure of God 3. Praedestinatorum praefinitus certus est numerus qui nec augeri nec minui possit 3. There is a predetermined and certain number of the predestinated which can neither be augmented nor diminished 4. Qui non sunt praedestinati ad salutem necessario propter peccata sua damnabuntur 4. Those that are not predestinated to Salvation shall be necessarily damned for their Sins 5. Vera viva ac justificans fides Spiritus Dei justificantis non extinguitur non excidit non evanescet in electis aut finaliter aut totaliter 5. A true living and justifying Faith is not extinguished it fails not it vanisheth not away in the Elect either finally or totally 6. Homo vere fidelis id est fide justificante praeditus certus est plerophoria fidei de remissione peccatorum suorum salute sempiterna sua per Christum 6. A true believer that is such a one as is endued with a justifying Faith is certain with the full assurance of Faith of the pardon of his Sins and of his Everlasting Salvation by Christ I suppose they did not mean that a true Believer may not have doubts and fears whether he be in Christ or no but that he may have a full assurance of his Justification without such extraordinary Revelation as the Papists speak of This Article is directed especially against the Papists whose Doctrine is that no Believer can attain a full assurance of his Salvation in this Life except he have an extraordinary Revelation from God 7. Gratia Salutaris non tribuitur non communicatur non conceditur universis hominibus qua Servari possint si velint 7 Saving Grace is not given is not communicated is not granted to all Men by which they may be saved if they will 8. Nemo potest venire ad Christum nisi datum ei fuerit nisi pater eum traxerit Et omnes homines non trahuntur a Patre ut veniant ad filium 8. No Man can come unto Christ unless it shall be given unto him and unless the Father shall draw him and all Men are not drawn of the Father that they may come unto the Son 9. Non est positum in arbitrio aut potestate unius cujusque hominis servari 9. It is not in the Will and Power of every one to be saved 3. I come to the Articles of Religion agreed upon by the Archbishops Bishops and the rest of the Clergy of Ireland in the Convocation holden at Dublin 16.5 Article 11. God from all Eternity did by his unchangeable Counsel ordain whatsoever in time should come to pass yet so as no Violence is offered to the Wills of the Reasonable Creatures and neither the Liberty nor the Contingency of second causes is taken away but rather Established Article 12. By the same Eternal Counsel God hath predestinated some unto life and reprobated some unto Death of both which there is a certain number known only to God which can neither be encreased nor diminished Article 13. Predestination unto Life is the everlasting purpose of God whereby before the Foundations of the World were laid he hath constantly Decreed in his Secret Counsel to deliver from Curse and Condemnation those whom he hath chosen in Christ out of Mankind and to bring them by Christ unto everlasting Salvation as Vessels made to Honour Article 14. The cause moving God to Predestinate unto Life is not the foreseeing of Faith or Perseverance or of good works or of any thing which is in the person Predestinated but only the good pleasure of God himself For all things being ordained for the manifestation of his glory and his glory being to appear both in the works of his mercy and of his justice It seemed good to his Heavenly Wisdom to choose out a certain number towards whom he would extend his undeserved Mercy leaving the rest to be spectacles of his Justice Article 15. such as are predestinated unto Life be called according to Gods purpose his Spirit working in due Season and through Grace they obey the calling they be justified freely they be made Sons of God by Adoption they be made like the Image of his only begotten Son Jesus Christ they walk Religiously in good Works and at length by Gods Mercy they attain to everlasting felicity but such as are not predestinated to Salvation shall finally be condemned for their Sins Article 25. The condition of Man after the fall of Adam is such that he cannot turn and prepare himself by his own natural strength and good works to Faith and calling upon God wherefore we
have no power to do good works pleasing and acceptable unto God without the Grace of God preventing us that we may have a good Will and working with us when we have that good Will Article 32. None can come to Christ unless it be given to him and unless the Father draw him and all Men are not so drawn by the Father that they may come unto the Son neither is there such a sufficient measure of Grace vouchsafed unto every Man whereby he is enabled to come unto everlasting Life Article 33. All Gods Elect are in their time inseparably united unto Christ by the effectual and vital influence of the Holy Ghost derived from him as from the Head unto every true Member of his Mystical Body and being thus made one with Christ they are truly regenerated and made partakers of him and all his benefits Article 38. A True Lively Justifying Faith and the Sanctifying Spirit of God is not extinguished nor vanisheth away in the Regenerate either finally or totally I have cited these Articles to shew this Author and others of his mind that there is no cause for any to fly out against the Assembly of Divines or any Presbyterians for what they hold about Election and Reprobation and such points as if it had been some new Doctrine that they had broached but every one may now see that next to the Scriptures they learnt this Doctrine of the Episcopal Divines that were before them 2. Let us consider the Doctrine it self 1. Concerning the Doctrine of Election let us see what this Author saith page 27. 1. That God did choose in Christ unto Salvation all that part of the fallen race of Mankind that dye in their Innocency or accept of his Mercy and Grace according to the means he gives them and this Decree proceeds from his own goodness and is not built upon any goodness in the Creature 1. He saith that God did choose in Christ to Salvation all that part of the fallen Race of Adam that dye in their Innocency 1. I Answer 1. This Author quotes not one Scripture for this strange Assertion 2. I wonder who they are of the fallen Race of Mankind that can dye in their Innocency I suppose he means young Infants those that dye in their Infancy But though those be called Innocent comparatively yet besides the guilt of Adams Sin which is upon every one of his Posterity by Nature as a consequent of it all have lost the Image of God in Holiness and Righteousness and have contracted by Adams fall such an Universal Depravedness that they have the Root the Spawn and Seed of all Sin in them Psal 51.5 Behold I was shapen in Iniquity and in Sin did my Mother conceive me This Corruption of Nature is inherent in every one that comes by Adam in a way of ordinary Generation So that not one is born without it It comes by propagation from Adam and if a Child dye the first day it is born into the World it doth not dye in Innocency but if it be saved it is washed and made white in the Blood of the Lamb and hath the habit and principle of Grace infused into it though without outward means God that formeth the Spirit the Rational Soul that the Infant hath can form Grace in the Soul of the Child as he pleases can Sanctifie it in the Womb or as soon as it is born if he be graciously pleased so to do But how doth the Infant dye in Innocency Alas there is an Universal depravedness in the Soul of an Infant which if it live to be capable to express it will discover it self A young Cub of a Fox or Wolf doth not presently discover its ravenous Nature but it is inherent in it bred with it and Men kill those young Cubs though they never yet did any mischief because it is their Nature to be Ravenous and Mischievous An Infant hath the same reasonable Soul that it hath if it live to be a Man though it doth not express it self as it doth when it lives to Age. So an Infant hath the Seed of all Sin a corrupt Nature though it doth not Act as it doth when Age comes on and I say that God may for the Guilt of Adams Sin and because there is such Enmity Rebellion and Wickedness in Mans Nature against him he may if he please glorifie his Justice upon them though they dye in their Infancy they are far from dying in Innocency I do not think God would have destroyed the old World and called them the World of the Ungodly amongst whom no doubt there were many Infants and destroyed Sodom and Gomorrah and made them suffer the Vengeance of Eternal Fire amongst whom no doubt there were many Infants if every Infant were Innocent I will not meddle to determine the Eternal Estate of those that dye in Infancy to be sure you go too far to assert what you do you are not the Soveraign Lord and Judge of all 3. You say that God did choose those that accept of his Grace and Mercy according to the means he gives them 1. I hope you mean his Grace and Mercy in Christ that they know him and believe in him for else there is no Salvation If the Gospel be hid if Christ as Mediator be not some ways made known to Men they are lost for ever 2 Cor. 4.3 He that believeth on the Son hath Life and he that believeth not on the Son hath not Life But you seem to hold that 't is not of necessity to Salvation to know Christ and him Crucified as Mediator but to have some general Notions of Universal Grace and Mercy in the Divine Essence which Men do own and accept of and truly you say that few knew the Mediator by the Name of Jesus Christ till he was born of the Virgin page 21. That is nothing to the purpose all that were saved knew the Mediator as the Seed of the Woman that was to break the Serpents Head Gen. 3.15 As he that was to offer himself a Sacrifice for Sin and therefore God taught them to offer Sacrifices presently after the fall by which they looked to Christ that was to come Jacob called him Shiloah the Saviour the Peace-maker that was to come Job called him his Redeemer All that ever were saved before Christ came were saved not by meer believing that God was Mercifull and Gracious But that he would send his Son to dye to be a Sacrifice for Sin And they embraced the promise of Christ the only Mediator and Sacrifice for Sin that was to come And all that are saved since our Saviours coming do in some measure know and believe in Jesus Christ that dyed without the Gate of Jerusalem You will leave us a strange Creed if you leave out the promised Messiah and that it is not necessary to believe in him to everlasting Lise Ay but you say the Turks themselves begin almost every Chapter in their Alcoran with these words In