farther to cōbre the reader Now foloweth a worthie matter I made this syllogisme whatsoeuer was in Adam was in him by goddes wil and ordinance sinne was in Adam ergo c. My ioilie chalenger denieth the maior of this syllogisme as though al the scriptures that I alleged before S. Aug. sentences did not proue it to be infallibly true But to saie that sinne was in Adam by goddes wil and ordinance he affirmeth to be al one with this god is the autor of sinne for he can not see how anie bodie can ordaine a thing and not be the autor head spring cause and propre worcker of it And he laboreth to proue this by lame similitudes as though that if he cold proue it so in some thinges he had by by proued it so in al thinges Hereunto I aunswere that the scipture sheweth plainly that al the thinges that be in man be in him by goddes ordinance and the same scripture sheweth as plainly that god is not the autor of sinne Wherefore to ordaine sinne and to be the autor of sinne is not al one And that to ordaine a thinge and to be the propre cause autor and worcker of a thinge is not al one these exemples maie teach the vnlerned He that setteth his wine abrode in the sunne to be made vineger ordaineth it to be made vineger and yet he is not the propre cause of vineger but the nature of the wine and the hote sunne beames Againe he that in spaine cutteth dounne grapes in the sommer and laieth them in a sunnie place ordaineth them to be made reasines yet he is not the propre cause of reasines but the nature of the grapes and the heate of the sunne Finally to bringe a plaine rustical exemple he that hangeth vp swines flesh in a chimneie ordaineth it to be made bacon and yet he is not the propre cause of bacon but the nature of the flesch and smoke Wherefore sith it is euident that it is not euer al one to ordaine a thinge and to be the propre cause and autor of a thinge we maie boldly saie the scripture bearinge plaine recorde and S. Aug. and sondrie other most excellēt writers holding vp their handes to the same that god ordaineth sinne and yet is not the autor of sinne How god ordained Adam to sinne thorough Adams awne faulte and without al maner of faulte in god I graunt in dede that it is harde for weake wittes to vndrestande neuertheles I am sure that it is most certaīly true And so we ar al bounde to beleue whether we vnderstande it or no onles we wil flatter and please our selues in a most open a most daūgerous error And if I wold superfluously spend wordes I could easely shew that the exemples which my doctor bringeth to declare that to ordaine and to be the autor of a thing is al one proue not his purpose For who knoweth not that Solon was not the autor of the lawes which he ordained amonge the Atheniens For those lawes were before in other commune weales and cheyfely in the commune weale of the hebru goddes wisedō in dede is the autor of al good lawes nomānes head But the matter is to manifest of it selfe And the rest of the replication is mere trifeling Where the scripture teacheth that god bad the liyng spirite to go in to Ahabs prophetes and to deceaue Ahab he aunswereth that god suffred the liyng spirite to go c. But he shuld haue shewed that to cōmaunde a thinge to be don is no more but to suffre a thinge to be don But I wil here present my doctor with this syllogisme he that commaunded the liynge spirite to go and to make liers commaunded him to sinne but god commaunded him to go to make false liyng prophetes ergo he cōmaūded him to sinne But god commaūdeth nothing which he ordaineth not so he ordained him to sinne And yet euerie starcke foole maie see that god was not the autor propre worcker of the liyng spirites sinne but found it in him al readie wrought thorough his awne corrupting of himselfe and iustly vsed it to punisch that nawghtie man And why I praie you shuld not god commaunde and ordaine a sinful bodie to shew his nature that is to saie to sinne It is certaine by the testimonie of the scripture that god commaundeth Satan to do manie thinges and I wold faine know how he can bid him to do anie thinge not to sinne Wherefore he that biddeth him do anie thinge must nedes bidde him to sinne But seing that god commaundeth him to do manie thinges cōmaundeth nothing besides his awne ordinance it foloweth of necessitee that god ordaineth sinnes to be don though he be not the autor and propre worcker of sinne But let vs see more He is angrie that I said that he turned al goddes doinges in to sufferinges For he saieth he turneth not al but some But than I saie that he hath brought nothing against my sentence that it was goddes wil and ordinance that Adam shuld sinne For onles he can proue that al goddes doinges be suffringes I wil holde my sentence stil in the nombre of those thinges that ar don ordained by god and not amonge those that be only suffred by god And I wil not suffre my sentence to go a straw bredth frō hir place vntil I see by what right he can remoue hir Touching goddes sufferance and how he suffreth nothinge besides his wil ordinance and that his sufferance is his ordināce I haue sufficiently declared before Here I might make an ende sauing that my good honest fellow cōplaineth that I left three thinges of his vnaunswered where as in dede I left but one of them vnaunswered that was for that I saw no cause why I shuld aūswer it And this is the gaie thing that must be aunswered Your assertion simply vndrestanded / saieth he / is plaine blasphemie by your awne confession Bicause I am driuen and compelled I aunswere to this that hitherto I neuer said so in my life And yet I denie not but that it maie be so expouned that it maie cōteine blasphemie as if a man wold saie whan I affirme that it was goddes wil and ordināce that Adam shuld sinne that god ordained Adam to sinne only bicause he delighted in sinne or for the sinnes sake alone or as though god were the autor propre worker of Adams sinne But I saie that such an interpreter and gloser shuld not only shew himselfe a froward ouerthwart foole but also a shameles mad man For I my selfe haue declared that that is as far from my meaning as hel is from heauen Nether cā anie mā iustly pike it out of the wordes Howbeit I know that there is nothing so wel spoken that a peruerse wranglinge wit can not by wresting wringing depraue And here I wold make an ende of these iustes but first I am required to saie somewhat to
seing that S. Pau. saieth that he hath vessels prepared vnto destruction Willeth not the death of those whom he hath prepared to destruction Againe how childish sophistrie is this he that is the autor of life willeth no sinne which is the cause of death It semeth that you thincke that god willeth no man to die And than al men die besides goddes wil. Which no man I dare saie wil affirme onles he be starcke mad I aduise you therefore to leaue these toies of plaine fransie God giue to you and to me speedie repentance of our faultes opeÌ„ your eyes in this matter as he hath vouch safed to open ours that we maie together agree in the truthe in vnfained humilitee and in christian loue which christian loue yet hath hir sharpnes wil bite the faultes that wil not other wise be amended Wherefore at my handes you shal loke to haue your boiles lauÌ„ched to haue corrosies smarting plaisters laied vpon them vntil thei be cured Goddes spirite directe vs. ¶ Bar. Traheron your frend assone as you can loue the truthe ¶ TO THIS LETTRE OVR countrefaite protestaÌ„t sent me an auÌ„swer stuffed with an huge heape of railing wordes wherevpon I wrote thus vnto him againe IF you be not sore sicke and feoble after so great thronges and after your deliuerance of such a swarme of innumerable railing wordes as it were of young diuels you maie be matched with anie she giaunt in the world in strong and lustie trauail in your faire happie childbed It semeth to me that in the middest of your rauinge traunce you had a litle witte remaining For whereas you despeared victorie in al other thinges you thought you wold ouer comme at the lest in railing scoffing tauÌ„ting And surely you haue brought your swete purpose to passe For I yeld vnto you this noble victorie hold vp my haÌ„des And bicause you haue a meruailous greedie huÌ„ger a thirst vnquencheable for vaine glorie you shal haue this praise at my haÌ„des also that you ar the the ioliest scold and the greatest railer that euer I heard or shal eare I thinke But shal I not thincke that you wold sporte your selfe in plaie refresh your forworen witte with a preatie pleasant frantike imagination whaÌ„ you wrote in the beginniÌ„g of your lustie lettre after that you had powred out at one belche more than halfe a dousen malitious railing wordes that you were taught by S. Pet. not to rendre rebuke for rebuke Thought you it so good a thinge to take a while a litle paâ—time in your ioieous fransie that you passed not how longe men shuld lawgh at your mad behauior afterwarde But if I shuld medle with al your strauÌ„ge prankes with al your new follies I shuld shew my selfe litle lesse fond than you ar I wil therefore pike out here and there that I thincke maie combre a simple reader Otherwise to saie the truth al your gaie stuffe is such as iâ— might be better despised than aunswered In regard of the vnlerned and to shew you your foule fete while you glorie in your pâ—cockes fethers I must do some what against myn awne iudgemeÌ„t stoupe so to hougâ— your hammes behinde that you shal be seeâ— to halte in this matter Bicause I said thaâ— you wrested S. Au. not oÌ„ly violently but also with some losse of a good conscience you permitte to your selfe to affirme that plaie Antichristes parte so proudly to presume to haue a place in maÌ„nes conscience But if I plaie Antichristes parte in iudging your conscience by the manifest frutes thereof whose parte plaie you whan in your writinge you iudge so often that to be in my herte whereof you neuer saw frute nor sparke nor anie maner of likelihod I thaÌ„cke god Wel I beleue ere it be long you shal fele whose parte you haue plaied You be verie angrie that I doubted whether you vndrestode S. Aug. wordes and you wold haue me to impute the faulte of your traÌ„slation to want of diligent examination For you had leuer al othet faultes shuld be found in you than lacke of lerning Wel I am coÌ„tente for this once that you shal wipe awaie one faulte with another and that men shal rather compte you rashe to runne blind fold for hast thaÌ„ not to vndrestaÌ„d so easie latine wordes But you be so good a man than you wil teach me my grammer to For you saie I englissh impleret he fulfilled For thorough hast to teach you sticke not to make a lie For this is my translation These be the great worckes of god c. that he fulfilled c. Where I make impleret the subiunctiue mode and not the indicatiue mode as you ether shamelesly or vnlernedly affirme You englisse the word impleret might fulfille so might I to if I wold haue shewed my selfe as ignorant as you ar For might fulfil maketh the sentence doubteful For god might fulfille his wil though he did not fulfille his wil. But S. Aug. ment not to leaue the sentence in suspense that god might fulfil his wil did not but he ment to teach cerrainly that he did fulfille his wil. And thus by turniÌ„g the subiuÌ„ctiue mode in to the potential you haue takeÌ„ great paines to shew your selfe as ignorant in grammer as you did before and do afterward in logike Where I said that S. Aug. meaneth that Adam did that god wold not in it selfe and for it selfe bicause you can not confute it you wold auoide it with a meruailous preatie shift For you aunswrr that if it might be permitted to you so to wrest euerie autor you wold haue none against you that I affirme myn vndrestanding only vpon a lordly autorite Howbeit if you haue leasure to be at home a litle while you shal vndrestand that I affirme not my saiynge vpon myne awne autoritee but vpoÌ„ a good ground For if you denie that or the like to be S. Au. meaning you shal make him to speak not opposita coÌ„traria as you vnaduisedly powre out your wordes at auenture but plaine coÌ„tradictorie seÌ„teÌ„ces to fighte against him selfe But now at the last you shew an high point of wit and lerninge For where I proued that it was S. Augustines minde that AdaÌ„ sinned by goddes wil and ordinaÌ„ce out of these his wordes No thinge is don c. and out of the other sentences alleged before you saie that none of those places proue the matter For saie you al those places speake of goddes prouidence whereby al thinges haue their being and ar gouerned If al thinges be gouerned by goddes prouidence as you confesse than sinful actes ar gouerned by his prouidence also comme not to passe besides his wil and ordinance And what a preatie argument of yours is this sinne is a deprauation of nature and the absence of righteousnes ergo it coÌ„meth not to passe by the ordinance of god But I weene that the Iues committed in procuryng of
wil as mē see that be awake Cold not god I praie you wil and ordaine Satans ministers to robbe Iob onles he delighted in their robberie for it selfe or of necessitee to auoide a greater inconuenience Cold not he wil and ordaine Achabs false prophetes to lie onles he delighted in their liyng for it selfe Cold not he wil and ordaine that Hophnie and Phineas shuld not heare their fathers good admonition bicause he wold kil them onles he delighted in their stubburne disobedience or of necessitee to auoid a greater inconuenience God than willeth thinges that he delighteth not in for them selues nether by reason of weakenes nor to auoide a greater inconuenience but to sette forth before mennes eyes his power his wisedom his righteousnes his goodnes and mercie Which vertues yet neuer to be knowen to the world we maie wel iudge to be an incōuenience touching vs but touching god it is none at al. For he might haue remained perfectly blisful in him selfe though he had neuer made vs. Awaie than with this vaine iangling But let vs se more of this gaie stuffe Our preatie Polyphemus wil not confesse that he goeth aboute to pulle god out of his throne For saieth he his office of gouerning consisteth not in this that it was his wil ordinance that Adam shuld sinne But if you take from god the ordaining gouerning and directing of Adās sinne and of al mennes sinnes you shal discharch him of a great parte of his gouernement and so farre like a young giaunt you go furiously aboute to pulle him out of his throne to your awne destruction But we ar demaunded an high quaestion how we can proue that thei which teach that it was not goddes wil that Adam shuld sinne do teach that thīges be dō whether god wil or no. I praie you master Doctor he that doeth the thing that you wold it shuld not be dō doeth he it not whether you wil or no But you saie that Adam sinned not whether god wold or no for god suffered him to sinne But that proueth not yet but that Adam sinned whether god wold or no. For one maie suffre a thinge to be don whether he wil or no. If you wil saie that god suffred it willingly than you graunt with vs that it was his wil that Adam shuld sinne And than you haue plaied the parte of a verie honest wise man al this while Where to myn aunswere that god testified to Adam by his commaundment what he alowed and what his pleasure was you replie that if god had willed decreed that Adā shuld through his awne faulte do the thīg which god had forbidden before god shuld therein haue willed and decreed the commaundment that he gaue before to be broken and than that had ben a contrarietee and repugnantie in him I aunswer that you haue more than serpentes eyes if you see that contrarietee and repugnantie You maie wel dreame that you see it in your sleepe but whan you awake you shal perceaue that it was but a vaine fansie a fliyng imagination For maie not a father laie vp apples in his chambre and giue a commaundment to his children that thei shal nor meddle with them and yet wil decree with him selfe as much as a mā maie wil and decree that thei shal steale them awaie and eate them to this ende that he maie ierke them wel and thriftely whereby while thei liue afterwarde thei maie feare to steale or to be lycorous or to breake their fathers commaundment Maie not I saie a father do al this onles he be contrarie and repugnant to him selfe Much more cold god wil decree that Adam shuld breake his commaundment thorough his awne faulte for a more excellent purpose without contrarietee repugnance in him selfe Whan afterwarde you saie that Adā in sinning did not the wil of god if by the word wil you meane goddes decree you misse the cusshion if by the word wil you meane that god alowed not Adams sinne ne had pleasure in it for the sinne it selfe I assente thereunto But how haue you than proued that it was not goddes wil decree and ordinance that Adam shuld sinne Against myn aunswer to the fourth argument spoken of in my boke you haue brought nothing worthie to be rehersed Wherefore I passe ouer to myn aunswer to the fift argument Against him that obiected Adams fre wil I said that goddes wil and ordinance letted not but that Adā shuld do frely and willingly without compulsion that he did And how that might be I shewed by exemples which you touch not bicause thei were to hotte But to that you replie that I wringe Adams free wil al together on the lift hand that is to sinne death but I leaue not free wil to the right hand that is to the keping of goddes commaundment and aeternal life I aunswer that god made Adam in such integritee vprightnes perfection of nature that whā he wold do goddes commaundmentes he might do them frely and willingly haue abundant sufficientie of natural strenghth thereunto and whan he wold decline from goddes commaundement he might do the same frely and willingly thorough his awne faulte and not thorough want of natural strength And I saie that his fre wil stode in this vprightnes strength perfection of nature not in choise of this or that For if there were no free wil but where a mā maie choose whether he wil do the thīg that is good or the thinge that is euil than there were no fre wil in god whose wil is most free For he can do no euil but only the thinges that be good Wherefore where thinges be don frely and willingly and wihout compulsion thorough no want of natural strength there is free wil saie I. And this I know was in Adam but no such fre wil whereby he might disappoint goddes certaine purpose or whereby it shuld folow that god had yet determined nothīg certainly But now though manie thinges powred out to no purpose folow in this replication I maie not passe ouer that where I asked whether he wold saie this Death came in to the world by the enuie of the diuel ergo it was not ordained by god he aūswereth flatly that death was not ordained by god And allegeth a sentence for him out of the first of wisedom God made not death nether hath he pleasure in the destruction of the liuinge To this I saie that the autor of that boke meaneth no more but that god was not the propre cause of death but the diuels enuie and mannes sinne and yet it foloweth not but that god ordeined death for mennes sinne For a king in his realme ordaineth hanginge for theues and murtherers and yet is not the propre cause of their hanging but their awne nawghtines And I saie once more that he that saieth that god ordaineth not death for mennes sinnes saieth that men die besides goddes ordinance But this geare is to grosse where with
yet master Masker hath nothing to do But we saie that nothing is dō besides goddes wil in ordaining and ordring For S. Aug. so exponeth him selfe in these wordes For if this were not good that euil thinges also shuld be thei shuld in no wise be suffred of that almightie good that is to saie god To whō without doubte as easie as it is to do what he wil so easie is it not to suffre that he wil not to be don By these wordes it appeareth that S. Augustines meaning is that god suffreth nothinge but that he willeth and ordaineth to be don And than I send you this syllogisme what soeuer god suffreth to be don he willeth and ordaineth to be don after S. Augusti meaning but god suffred Adam to sinne as no great sainte master Masker graūteth ergo it was goddes wil and ordinance that Adā shuld sinne after S. Aug. meaning And than no greate sainte master Masker hath troubled this companie without cause to his awne shame Take to you this syllogisme also Al the good thīges that be dō in the world ar don by goddes wil and ordinance but it is good that euil thinges shuld be dō in the world as S. Aug. teacheth ergo euil thinges ar don in the world by goddes wil and ordinance Can you saie gentle brother without red cheekes that nothing is don besides goddes wil cōstrained by the wordes of S. Aug. and yet denie that it was goddes wil that Adam shuld sinne Who wil thā thinke that you ar at home whan you speake But now that I haue shewed you your wilful blindnes and grosse ignorance in interpreting S. Aug. I wil peruse more of your lettre You saie that I fal to raging But you shal finde in the ende that it was a good honest zele vttered only to amende your outragious faultes You ar angrie that I charge you with madnes fondnes for you cā not see them in your propre person But if you cal to remembrance your whole behauior in this only matter that of late you haue enterprised amonge vs you shal find more madnes fondnes than can be expressed And though you perchaūce can not find it bicause you be blinded with selfe loue yet al other mē haue marked it more than maketh for your honestie You ar not ashamed to saie that you offred a writing for reconciliation which in dede containeth nothing but shameles vaunting of your selfe defacing of other far honester than you railinges malitious slaunders open lies And yet you can not see wherein you haue broken charitee Was not that verie charitably don of you so gredely and so malitiously to desire that M. Rose might be punished a man that hath trauailed so long so painfully and so frutefully in the ministerie of goddes worde only bicause he rubbed your gauled backe in telling you the truthe Was not that verie charitably don of you to defame that right godlie sobre man master Barckley with most despiteful and shameles lies Was not that verie charitably don of you to accuse and cōdemne the hole cōpanie of hypocrital praiyng to god besides your selfe the greatest hypocrite of al Was not that verie charitably don of you to vttre such a masse of poison against good men whan you shuld haue pp̄pared your selfe to haue receaued the holie communion with them if you had not ben a secrete papiste an vngodlie man Wo worth such charitee as might haue staied so godlie a purpose if god had not wrought more strongly for vertue thā the diuel cold worcke mischeuously for vice But now bicause you coniure me to shew what scabbes of iniquitie I know in you I wil discharge my conscience First I saie that you ar a visored and disguised papist as you haue plainly enough discouered your selfe Secondly I saie that I see in you a proud arrogant contentious vnquiet and enuious spirite which I praie god most hertely to chase out of you that we maie embrace you againe as a brother whō now we haue iust cause to abhorre as a man voide of goddes feare stuffed with manie horrible vices besides your subtil secrete papistrie This vncleane spirite that I speake of and know to be in you is the verie cause I am sure why you dissente from vs in this question of goddes prouidēce For thorough goddes grace we haue not ben obscure nor perplexed in this matter nether can you pretende ignorance Enuie and the loue that stil remaineth in you to your old harlotte poperie hath moued you to stirre these coales Let the feare of god and loue of truth moue you againe to quench the fier that you haue kendled or surely there shal be a fier kendled in your herte that no man nor time shal quenche But I trust you wil calle to god for a better minde And to that ende I wrote before and now write to you againe And I passe not though I seme to you to rage so I maie bring you from verie raging in dede and mere madnes Where you faine that I wold draw you from repliyng against me with threates that procedeth from your old disease For I know by that that you haue written alreadie that you can saie nothing to the purpose against me Yea if I were dèirous of glorie I wold desire you to replie that you might vttre more follie which I cold easely turne to my greater praise For I am sure that you can bring nothing but that a man of meane lerning maie easely ouerthrow so gette glorie Wherefore I nede not let you to replie asmuch as you can so you wold do it without bitternes of mind without furious passions without vaine bragges without obstinate wilful blindnes without drōcken affection to your old Ione syluer pinne of Rome which some thinke a mā shal hardly obtaine at your handes Further I must desire you to make lesse sophistical argumentes than you haue don in your former writinges For whan you saie that it was the wil of him only that Adam shuld sinne which only of his malitious nature pro pre inclination tempteth mā to sinne you shal finde in sophisterie that it is called petitio principij For no man wil graunt that it was Satans wil only that it cold be the wil of none other but of him that delighteth in sinne that Adam shuld sinne onles he be as fonde as you ar And this I haue declared sufficiently in my former aūswer al readie published against which you threaten to driue your blind battle rammes But I trust your push shal only bruse your selfe neuer shake nor moue me For I thanke god I stand faster and vpon a surer grounde than that so slender batterie can beate me doune You haue another dow baack reason of like meale which is this he that willeth not the death of a sinner which is the reward effecte of sinne willeth not that man shuld sinne I praie you how proue you that god willeth the death of no sinner
shuld sinne yet god wrought not Adams sinne but in suffring ordained it according to his wil to be wrought thorough the enuie of the diuel and Adams awne faulte as M. Watson than plainly expressed as you maie finde sufficiently taught in my exposition vpon a parte of the 4. cha of S. Io. reuel and in the later ende of my former aunswer to certaine sophistical cauillations Certaine other also verie godlie men and verie worthie to be remembred subscribed to this our sentence whose names in consideration of their trauaile abrode in the middest of this croked generation I thought not good to expresse in this place Finally the hole companie agreed to this doctrine that I haue here defended and published excepte one person only which stode as a neuter nether cōdemning nor approuing either parte And in dede amonge al other he was of lest estimation To god almightie therefore who thorough his gratious goodnes vouchsafed to open this truth vnto vs to the great conforte and staie of our weake afflicted mindes in this woful tyme and hath giuen vs a commune consente therein be al glorie and praise for euer Amen amen S. Aug. in the first boke of the predest of sainctes cha 16. It is thā in the power of nawghtie men to sinne But that in sinning the same nawghtines shal do this or this it is not in theyr power but in the power of god who diuideth darcknes ordreth it that of this also that thei do against goddes wil there is nothing fulfilled but goddes wil. S. Aug. in the bo of free wil and grace cha 20. Which holie scripture if it be diligently loked in to sheweth that not only the good willes of men which he made of euil willes and beinge made good by him guideth to good actes but also those willes that continue the creation of the world be so in goddes power that he maketh them to be bowed whither he wil and whan he wil ether to do good to some or to punissh some as he him selfe declareth by his most hidden in dede but vndoubtedly most iust iudgement For we finde some sinnes to be punishementes euen of other sinnes As is the hardening of Pharao the cause whereof is also declared to shew godddes power in him Wherefore the lord saieth to Iosue The children of Israel shal not be able to stande What is this thei shal not be able to stand Why did thei not stand by their fre wil but fled their wil being trobled thorough feare sauing that god ruleth ouer the willes of men whan he is angrie turneth whom he wil in to feare Did not the shameles man the sonne of Iemini raile vpon kinge Dauid by his awne wil Neuertheles what saieth Dauid Suffre him to raile for the lord hath commaunded him to raile vpon Dauid Lo how it is proued that god vseth the hertes euen of euil men to the praise and aide of good men In the same bo cha 31. Who shuld not tremble at these iudgementes of god whereby he worketh euen in the hertes of euil men whatsoeuer he wil rendring yet to them according to their desertes And againe By these such testimonies of the holie scripture it is made manifest enough that god worcketh in the hertes of men to bow their willes whither so euer he wil ether to good thinges according to his mercie or to euil according to their desertes thorough his awne iudgement without doubte sometimes open sometimes hidden but euer iust ¶ CESSENT SOLITA ¶ DVM MELIORA ¶ AN. DOMINI M.D.LVIII