place is to be such as so aboundeth in the knowledge of God as to teach rebuke admonish and comfort mutually one another in a private way not to preach publikely in the Church for the ordinary conversion of soules for which sort of Prophets you do contend Robinson addeth The Apostle cannot meane extraordinary Prophets 1 Cor. 14. there could not bee such a number of extraordinary Prophets now when extraordinary Prophets were beginning to cease in the Church Answ. 1. When the Church of Corinth abounded in every thing in all knowledge and utterance and came behind in no gift 1 Cor. 1. 5. 7. and so much grace was given them in Jesus Christ v. 4. It is cleare there were abundance of Prophets even then in Corinth 2. It is not to purpose for lay-Prophets whether they were ordinary or extraordinary Prophets They were Prophets as the Spirit of God calleth them 1 Cor. 12. 29. set in the Church as officers even as Apostles and Governors and Teachers who are officers And there is no reason that you should impose significations on words at your owne pleasure without warrant of the Word Now shew us in all the old or new Testament when the word Prophet signifieth a naked gifted man out of office in the Lords house for you have as good warrant for you to say there were lay-Apostles lay-Teachers lay-Governors who were gifted persons not in office as you have for lay-Prophets 3. Multitude of Prophets may consist with the time when Seers and foretellers of things revealed in visions were beginnings to cease even as the gifts of the holy Ghost given abundantly at the Pentecost Act. 2. 17. 18. Ioel 2. 28. did consist with the time when things concerning Christ must now have an end Luk. 22. 37. Luk. 24. 44. Robinsons 3. Argument is The Apostle in forbidding women to prophesie in the Church licenceth men 1. The Apostle in and for the worke opposeth the men to the women Sexe to Sexe and in forbidding women hee must license men when the holy Ghost opposeth faith and workes in the cause of justification and denyeth that we are justified by workes is not then the consequence good we are justified by faith 2. If in prohibiting women he gave not libertie to men where were the prerogative of men above women which is the onely ground upon which hee buildeth the prohibition 3. Ver. 34. 35. Women are not permitted to speake in the Church yet may they speake to their husbands at home now if the husbands might not speake in the Church more then the women what reason can be rendred of the Apostle his so speaking 4. The Apostle in the whole Chapter taketh order that some should prophesie in the Church and debarring women therefrom he must either admit men or then we have a third sort of Persons to prophesie who are neither men nor women Answ. Here is a great noyse of Arguments for just nothing and a faire sophisme concluding that secundum quid which should be concluded 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 for we deny not but some men in office are permitted yea and commanded to prophesie in publick and we grant that Sex and Sex are opposed but the opposition made by Robinson is creeple and throwne-backed for all and every one of mankind are not permitted to prophesie as all and every woman is forbidden to prophesie or teach in the Church by the Lawes of France a woman may not sit on the Throne and sway the Scepter but friend can you say then the Lawes of France doth license any Frenchman whatsoever he be to sit on the throne and be King Mr. Robinson proveth men are licensed to preach Sed indefinita propositio in materia contingente â—quipollet particulari but he knoweth all men are not licenced to prophesie in publick for ungifted men are not sent of God and we say neither all gifted tradesmen never called by the Church nor educated in Schooles or sent of God to preach in the Church This he covereth and proveth never onely he setteth downe foure armies of Arguments to prove I know not what to prove forsooth that men may prophesie in publike and not women but who denyeth that And the similitude of faith and workes crooketh here for saving faith is opposed to all good workes whatsoever both in kind and individualls for wee are neither justified by good workes in specie nor by any one good worke in individuo but though all women be debarred from teaching in the Church yet are not all men licensed to teach in the Church but onely those say we who are called of God as was Aaron 2. I would bandy the Argument thus It is not permitted to women to administer the Sacraments Ergo It is permitted for any man though not a Prophet by office to administer the Sacraments The Antecedent is Pauls the consequence is yours and so all these foure Arguments prove not what is in question to with that Ergo a gifted person not in office may preach publickly Mr. Robinson addeth In restrayning women he sheweth his meaning to be of ordinary not of extraordinary Prophets because women immediatly and extraordinarily inspired might speak without restraint Exod. 15. 20. Jud. 4. 24. Luk. 2. 36. Act. 2. 17 18. Answ. Robinson cannot show that the same kind of prophecying in women v. 34. is taxed by Paul which is regulated in men v. 26 27 28. and therefore that connexion is denied hee restraineth women from ordinary prophecying in the temple Ergo he speaketh of the ordinary prophecying of men for 1. he compareth prophecying with tongues extraordinary with extraordinary and he desireth them to covet to prophesie ordinary he cannot meane for in all the Word you find not private professors are commanded to desire to bee ordinary Prophets for so God should command them to pray that they might leave their callings and stations contrary to 1 Cor. 7. 20. and give themselves to study sciences and tongues for if the holy Ghost command the meanes he must command the end and if hee command the end hee must command the meanes But v. 34. he setteth downe a new canon about women who tooke on them to prophesie publickly and hee inhibiteth so much as ordinary prophecying yea so much as speaking in the Church and I deny not but Irenaeus Eusebius yea and Tertullian Cyrill Chrysostome Theophylactus with warrant teach that alwayes women extraordinarily inspired may prophesie for in that God immediately exalteth them above men But for ordinary prophecying in publick it is of morall equitie and perpetuall that the women should not teach for Adam was first formed this Paul bringeth as a morall argument against womens preaching His fourth Argument is from 29 and 32. verses Let the Prophets speake two or three and let the rest judge The Apostle cannot saith Robinson speake of extraordinary Prophets for they cannot erre but are infallible but the Prophets here spoken of are not infallible because they are to be censured
and Ostorodius Theoph. Nicolaides reason against Gods ordinance of a sent Ministerie Robins God hath indeed set in the body some to be eyes and mouth and hath not said to all the Church Goe and preach but first they have not their gifts from the Church Secondly you would have the body to starve if such hands as Deacons will not feed and all the body blinde if the eyes of the watchmen be blinde Answ. Yet thus much is granted that gifts give not the keyes nor authority to use gifts and so that all beleevers though gifted and graced also have not power of the keyes 2. It 's certaine that in a constituted Church there be no hands nor mouthes to doe and speake by authority and ex officio by vertue of an office save onely Elders and Pastors and that if they doe or speake they doe it extraordinarily when Churches hands are lame and her eyes blinde or if they doe and speake ordinarily it is from the law of charity in a private way not by power of the keyes and as Judges and Officers Manuscript 5 ch 4 sect The Churches not the Angels of the Churches are blamed for not executing censures against Balaam Jezabel the Nicolaitans g Robinson saith more 1. These whose workes Christ commendeth for that dwelling where Sathans throne was they kept his name and denyed not his faith these he reproveth for suffering the doctrine of Balaam and the Nicolaitans 13 14 15 16. 2. They which were commended by Christ for their workes love service faith patience increase of workes are reproved for suffering Jezabel but these were not the Angels onely 3. These conjunctions but never the lesse say though they were zâ—alous in many things yet they failed in not being zealous enough against false teachers Ans. 1. These connexions prove guiltinesse in Angels or Pastors and one common fault may be laid upon them all but hence it followeth not that they all abused one and the same power of the Keyes as being all collaterall Judges no doubt the Angels preached not against Balaam Jâ—zabel and the Nicolaitans doctrine and yet women dwelt where Sathans throne is and there faith and patience was commended and yet our brethren will not say women are rebuked and all the beleevers because they did not pastorally preach against Balaam and Iezabel so this argument hurteth them as much as our cause The Pastors were guilty because they did not in their place use the Keyes and the people because they did not say to Archippus and their Officers Take heed how you governe as Israel was involved in Achans trespasse because they warned not one another 2. Seeing the Spirit of God maketh mention of Churches in the plurall number and every one of the seven Churches of Ephesus Rev. 2. 7. of Sâ—yrna v. 11. of Pergamus 17. of Thyatira 29 of Sardis 3. 6. Philadelphia 13. Laodicea 22. It is cleare there were more Churches then a single Congregation and an independent incorporation in every one of them and so a Presbytery of Angels in every one of them behoved to be guilty of this neglect of discipline yet not all one and the same way It is not cleare enough though that the whole Church in Ephesus was to be rebuked or that all and every one of the Elders whereof there were a good number Act. 20. 26. He prayed with them all they all wept sore were guilty of these abuses of the power of the Keyes for in Sardis there were a few names which had not defiled their garments yet the whole body is rebuked Manuscript Ch. 5. Sect. 4. When the word Congregation is put for the Elders or Judges only it is never understood of them sitting in consistery and judgement there alone by themselves and apart from the people but in the presence of the publick assembly who also had liberty in such cases to rescue an innocent from unjust judgment 1 Sam. 14. 45. I answer we urge not a Church assembly of Elders only to exclude the people from hearing yea and in an orderly way from speaking reasoning and disputing even in our Generall assembly but for judiciall concluding we find not that given to any but to the Church-guides Act. 15. 6. Act. 16. 4. 2 It is not a good argument the people sate with the Rulers and rescued innocent Jonathan 1 Sam. 14. Therefore all the people may fit and give judiciall sentence or impede the Elders to sentence any This I grant is alledged by Ainsnorth for to give popular government to the people as also 1 King 21. 13. and Ier. 26. 11 12. but 1. a fact of the people is not a Law 2. It was one fact and that in an extraordinary case of extreame iniquity in killing innocent Ionathan a Prince and Leader of the people 3. in a civill businesse and the people were to be executioners of the sentence of death and they saw it manifestly unjust 4. they were not the common people only but in thar company were the Princes of the Tribes and heads and the King and his family only on the other side what will this infer but that there were no Kings in Israel who had power of life and death nor any judges as Ainsworth contrary to Scripture sayth but that the people were joynt Judges with the King and that the people in the New Testament are co-equall Judges with the Elders from so poore an example and so the Separatists proving from the peoples power of judging in civill causes which yet is a wide mistake and a punishment bodily to be inflicted upon strangers as Paget doth learnedly observe doe conclude the peoples power of judging in Ecclesiastick causes which concerneth only the members of the visible Church Manuscript We grant it is orderly to tell the Elders the offence that the whole Church be not frivolously troubled but it followeth not that the Officers may judge there alone without consent of the people he who told his complaint to the Levite told it orderly enough to the whole Congregation assembled at Mizpeh Jud. 20. Ans. These to whom we are to complaine these and these only are to be heard and obeyed as Judges binding and loosing in Earth and validly in Heaven Mat. 18. but these are not the multitude nor one Elder only but the Church of Elders 2. if the Church of Believers be the only subject as you teach of the Keys and not the Elders but in so far as they are parts of the believing Church then it is more orderly to complaine to the multitude who only are proper Judges then to Elders who are not properly Judges Manuscript A second reason why we allow such power to the people in Church censures is from the Church of Corinth 1. He directeth the whole Church of Corinth to whom he writeth to excomunicate the incestuous man Ans. He writeth to all the faithfull and so to women the woman is not to usurpe authority over
Christ have no Church on earth for the laying hold on the covenant giveth being and life to the Church as the body of Christ and his true spouse as well as it giveth being to the visible Church according to ouâ— brethrens doctrine and if this covenant cease there is not a Church of Christ on earth 8. We have heard nothing here as yet but the covenant of grace and no Church-covenant But saith the Authour of the Church-covenant g Though it be indeed the covenant of grace and made principally with God it followeth not hence that it is not a covenant of the members amongst themselves for the covenant of God tyeth us to duties to our neighbour and to watchfulnesse and edification one of another Levit. 19 17. Deut. 29. 18. the neglect whereof in the matter of Achan brought sinne on all the congregation Josh. 7. yea it tieth us to duties to children not yet borne who shall after become members of the Church when Iehojadah made a covenant betwixt the King and the people it was but a branch of the Lords covenant obliging the King to rule in the Lord and the people to obey in God Answ. 1. But if particular duties to our brethren bind us by a new Church-covenant because Gods covenant commandeth these duties then because Gods covenant commandeth sobriety toward our selves and righteous dealing toward our brethren there is required a selfe-covenant towards your selves for temperance and sobriety toward your selves as there is required a Church-covenant to binde you to duties to those who are in Church membership with you this no man can say nor can severall duties require severall covenants 2. It is true when we enter into covenant with God we sweare duties to all to whom we are obliged but then we are made members of the visible Church before we sweare this Church-covenant and this is as if Abraham were made a living man before he have a reasonable soule and as if Abraham were Israel his father before Israel be Abraham his sonne for if Abraham be in-Churched when he did sweare the covenant of grace as the Authour granteth then he must be a member of a visible Church while as yet there is not a visible Church to which Abraham is tied I deny not but Israel may sweare obedience to all Gods covenant and all duties therein and that he may sweare also in particular to performe all duties to Abraham his father in another oath but that he cannot enter in the state of relation of sonneship to his father while he sweare that oath in particular is a dreame which hardly can be conceived 3. The peoples finne in not warning Achan was a finne against a duty of the covenant exacting obedience of all in brotherhead though not in a Church-state Levit. 19. 17. and Iob and his friends who were members of no visible Church as you say did performe this one to another Iob 4. 3 4. Iob 2. 11. Iob. 4. 1. 4. The covenant that Jehojadah made betwixt the King and the people will prove the lawfullnesse of a covenant to performe Church-duties beside the generall covenant of grace which we deny not but doth not prove that a covenant to Church-duties is the essentiall forme of Church-membership and the onely way by Divine precept of entring persons in a Church-state for persons already in Church-state may upon good reasons sweare a covenant to these duties yet are they not of new inchurched to that congregation whereof they were members before Their next principall argument as the Apology saith if a Church-covenant be the essentiall forme of a Church as a stock of Saints is the materiall cause then the Church-covenant is necessary to the being of the Church and it is that wherby Ecclesia integra constituitur collapsa restituitur quo sublato Ecclesia dissolvitur destituitur that is it is by this covenant a Church is instituted in its integrity and when it is fullen it is restored to its integrity and when this covenant â—easâ—th the Church is no longer a visible Church Answ. When a Church falleth it is not restored to the state of a visible Church by circumcision and yet circumcision is given as a signe of a covenant betwixt God and his Church Gen. 17. 11. nor is a Church restored by Baptisme or Baptizing over againe and yet Baptisme is that whereby we are entered members of the visible Church 2. When persons faile in omitting Church duties I thinke they faile against your Church-Oath yea when they fall into any sinne that may be a scandall to others yea the finne of adultery yet if they repent and heare â—he Church they are not excommunicated neither doe they â—ose the right of Church-membership and right to the seales of the covenant nor is it needfull they be restored by renewing a Church-covenant but we desire to heare from Gods word proofes of the singular vertues of this Church-covenant 3. Discipline is by all Divines thought necessary to the well being of a Church but not to the simple being thereof and for this we apeale to the learned Parker who denieth Discipline to be an essentiall note of the visible Church and citeth Cartwright for this and therefore saith that Calvin Bortrandus de Logues Mornaeus Martyr Marloratus Galusius and Beza omitteth discipline amongst the notes of the Church The apology addeth if the nationall Church of the Jewes was made a nationall Church by that covenant and therby all the Synagogues had Church-fellowship one with another in the Temple then the congregationall Church is made a visible Church by that covenant 2. Also the fallen Church of the Jewes was restored to a Church-state say they by renewing a covenant with the Lord in the dayes of Asah Hezekiah and these who fell to Judah 2 Chron. 9. 25. are commanded not to stiffen their necks or as in the originall to give their hand unto the Lord that so they might enter into the sanctuary 2 Chron. 30. 8. Answ. Is it credible or possible that all the Synagoues of so many hundred thousand people as were in the 12. Tribes were all satisfied in conscience anent the regeneration one of anotherâ— and this is required of you to the right swearing of a Church covenant else how could they in the Oath joyne themselves to all Israel as to a Generation of Saints â—â— Israel before this Oath was circumcised and had eaten the Passoyer and so was a visible Church before yea then God had no Church visible before this Oath which is against Gods promise made to David and his seed Psal. 89. 28. â—9 Also in Abijahs dayes Judah was the true Church of God 2 Chron. 13. 8. And now yâ—t think to withstand the Kingdome of the Lord in the hands of the sonnes of David 10. But as for us the Lord is our God and we have not forsaken Him 3. The inchurching of members is a Church-action as all the Church casteth out so all
Church-assemblies and heare the word Ergo this union must be as in all Bodies Cities Houses Armies by Covenant none is made a Citizen to have right to the priviledges of the City but by a Covenant for when one is received a member of an House or of an Army or of any incorporation 〈◊〉 is by a Covenant Answ. 1. The ennumeration is unsufficient for the Seale of Baptisme and a profession of the truth is that which maketh one a member of the visible Church 1 Cor. 12. 13. for by one spirit we are all baptized into one body and can you deny the covenant which is sealed in baptisme and by this are all the Citizens and Domesticks inchurched and received into the visible Church and when one removeth from one congregation to another hee maketh a tacite covenant to serve God in all his Ordinances with that new society but he is not thereby made a member of the visible Church for that he was before nor hath hee right to the Seales as they are Seales of such a Church but as they are Seales of the whole Catholick Church The Apostles saith the apology did two things when they planted Churches 1. They joyned them together in a Church covenant 2. They constituted Elders in every Church Acts 14 13. what the Apostles did after they converted their hearers a baptizing praying for them laying on of hands exhorting inchurching against persecuters disputing against adversaries miracles are acts tending to the good of the Church not acts of planting a Church Answ. 1. The first of these two is in question we reade not of such a covenant as our brethren speake of 2. Converting of Soules after the Church is constitute is an adding to the Church and preaching tendeth to this The Law of the Lord converteth Psal. 19. and when the Church is planted it is not a perfect house but stones are fitted and laid upon the corner stone dayly 3. That the Apostles act of planting is conversion and gathering to a visible body by a covenant we deny for planting is an erecting of Professors and Judges or Officer whether they be converted or not so they professe the truth 3. Arg. All Churches saith the discourse are confounded if there be not this Covenant to distinguish them Smyrna is not Ephesus or Thyatira none of them is Laodicea 2. Every one of them is rebuked for their own faults 3. Faith or cohabitation doth not distinguish them Ergo this Church-covenant only doth distinguish them Answ. Particular congregations differ not in essence and nature as Church covenants differ not in nature onely they differ in accidents and number and it is folly to seeke differences for Church covenants make not the difference for â— Church covenant ia common to them all 2. So Peter may be rebuked for his fault and John for his yet Peter and John differ not in nature The apology addeth it is not a Covenant simply and is generall that doth constitute a Church or distinguish it from another but a Covenant with application or appropriation to these persons as in mariage all promise these same duties yet a Covenant applyed to this man and this woman maketh this man such a womanâ— husband and no other man Answ. If this be all baptisme and professed Faith applied to this man rather then to this shall as well distinguish persons and Churches as Church covenants so applied 2. This is not a good and fit division so to appropriate this Pastor to this flock as he shall be a Pastor to no other people but to them and everteth all communion of Churches and Saints and denieth the use of the Seales in this Congregation from all members of another congregation whereas God hath made him a pastor in relation to the whole visible Church on Earth though his labours be tyed to one determinate Church So Papists marry the Bishop and his Church hence they thought it unlawsull for a Bishop to d mit his Church in any case for Enaristus calleth that spirituall adultery and we cannot approve of the councell of Antioch and Sardis that none can leave his Wife that is his married Church etiamsi à populis eriâ— Episcopus necessitate adactus And they say that Cresâ—on was condemned in the councell of Carthage for changing his Wife to wit his Church and Innocentius 3. saith the spirituall baend of mariage betwixt a Bishop and his Church is stronger then the mariage-band betwixt a man and his wife yea Dominicus a Soto saith to change Churches is against the Law of nature as to change Wives yea saith Innocentius 3. Onnipotens Deus conjugium quod est inter Episcopuâ— Ecclesiam suo tantum judicio reservavit dissolvendum 3. Argu. A free people saith our Author cannot be joyned in a body but by mutuall consent as appeareth in all Relations betwixt Parents and Children Husband and Wife no Church saith he can take charge of a stranger believer comming from another congregation unlesse he give himselfe and offer his professed subjection to the Gospell also it is a part of the liberty wherewith Christ hath made us free that every one choose â—his own Pastor Rom. 14. 1. we are to receive a weake believer Ergo he is to offer himselfe to the Church and to their order by Covenant Answ. 1. It is true the relation of Pastor and free people is founded upon a tacite Covenant but this Covenant is made in Baptisme for a pastor is a pastor to yound children whom â—he received into Covenant in baptisme according to that Acts 20. 28. feed the flock over which the Holy Ghost hath made you overseers now infants are of these because he is to feed them as a pastor loveing Christ his lambes and young ones no lesse then the aged 2. Because hee exercised pastorall acts over young ones when he baptizeth them yet infants are not under a ministery by a Church covenant 3. The act of election includeth a tacite promise of subjection to the Minister who is elected and the pastors acceptation of the Church-Office includeth a tacite promise to feede that flock but this is no Church-covenant which I prove by one argument unanswerable The Church-covenant say our Brethren is the formall cause of our Churchmembership and of a visible Church as a reasonable soule is the formall essence of a man now the covenant that can intervene betwixt a pastor elected and a people electing is a posterior and later by nature then a Church-covenant for a people is a Church as our brethren teach and so constitute in its full power of all Church operations and so hath its entyre essence and essentiall forme before they elect a pastor as a man must be a reasonable man before he can exercise the second operations or actus secundos flowing from a reasonable soule Therefore a Church and Pastor dâ—e take charge of a stranger comming to the Congregation though there be no
flow immediately and necessarily from the essence of a Church and a congregation be essentially a Church then this power agreeth to all Churches whether consociated or not consociated and without respect of what neighbours they have whether many or few whether any or none 2. A congregation its alone cannot have sole power of jurisdiction and then be deprived of it when God sendeth neighbour Churches for then neighbouring Churches which are given for helpe should be given for losse the contrary whereof Ames saith Nor doe Synods saith he constitute a new forme of a Church Answ. Power of Iurisdiction floweth from the essence of a congregation in an Iland Ergo a totall and compleat power of jurisdiction floweth from the essence of a Church or congregation consociated it followeth no wayes so a pastor of a Congregation hath as a pastor power to rebuke sinne and to administrate the Sacraments Ergo when three pastors are added to help him he hath the sole power of rebuking sinne and the sole and entire power to administrate the Sacraments and none of these three pastors hath power with him it followeth not and because these three pastors are added to help him and their pastorall power added to him is cumulative and auxiliary but not privative or destructive of his pastorall power therefore the first pastor suffereth losse by the addition of these three to him who will say this our Brethren do conceive the power of Congregations in its kind and essence to be Monarchicall so as if any power from consociated Congregations be added thereunto the Congregations power Monarchicall is d minished and the essence of it changed 2. Compleat and entire power to rule both the Congregation and the Members of consociated Churches in so far as they do keep communion with that Congregation and may either edifie or scandalize them floweth not immediatly and necessarily from the essence of every Congregation even in remote Islands not consociated with others that we never said 3. A power to governe well and according to the rule of the word added to another power to governe well and according to the word is an auxiliary power and no way destrective of that power to which it is added indeed a power to governe well added to a power of male administration in a Congregation is distructive of that power and reason it should be so because Christ never gave any such power of male administration to a Congregation but a power of right governing added to a power of right governing is neither destructive thereof nor doth it constitute a new forme of a Church or a Church power but only inlarge the prâ—existent form to extend it selfe farther for the edification of more soules But saith Mr. Mather if it be against the light of nature that the adverse party be the sole judge which must be if the sâ—le power of Iurisdiction be in the Congregation as we grant in an extraordinary case when a Congregation is in an Island its alone and so it shall be lawfull for a single Congregation to doe that which is against all equity and the very light of nature it must then follow that it is not against the light of nature that a Congregation though consociated with other Congregations have entire jurisdiction within it selfe Answ. None of us do teach that it is against the light of nature that the adverse party be the judge it might fall out in a generall councell lawfully convened from which there is no provocation yea and in a nationall councell for all councels may erre the adverse party may judge as it was a lawfull councell according to a Church-constitution that condemned Christ of blisphemy and they were also his enemies but we teach that it is not congruous to the wisdome of Christ nor to the light of nature that Christ should have appointed all the ordinary Churchcourts so many thousand congregations who may rather erre then extraordinary and higher Synods to be the onely ordinary judges in their owne cause Nor doth any thing more follow from this argument that when there is one congregation its alone in an Iland destitute of the helpe of consociated Churches which is a defect of an extraordinary providence of Christ in that one singular exigence that that congregation shall be both judge and party in its owne cause if we suppose that one Micaiah shall contend for the truth and all the rest of the Prophets and people of that congregation to be against the truth and to judge and condemne one man who seeketh the Lord in truth It is a wonder to me that Thessalonica was but one single congregation all hearing one Word partakers of one Lords Supper at one Table yet the Apostle ascribeth to them that which is a note to worthy Baynes of the numerous multitude of the Church of Ierusalem from whence went the Word of God to all the world 1 Thes. 1. 8. For from you sounded out the Word of the Lord not onely in Macedonia and Achaia but also in every place your faith to God-ward is spread abroad I deny not what Mr. Mather and Thomson say but 5000 may meet to heare the word and many thousands were gathered together Luke 12. to heare Christ but these reverend brethren doe leave out 1. The inconvenience of thronging so all at once for they trode one upon another 2. Christ preached not to all those thousand at once for it is expresly said v. 1. He began to say to his Disciples So Christ refusing to preach to such a disorderly confluence of people who could not heare and his doctrine being all for his Disciples the very Sermon being preached to his Disciples onely Matth. 10. 2 3 4 c. and the Parable of the rich man v. 22. he applieth to his Disciples Then he said to his Disciples therefore I say unto you take no thought for your life c. It evidenceth to me that Christ condemneth a numerous multitude in one congregation to heare at once And whereas Chrysostome saith 5000 persons did heare his voyce at once in one congregation by meanes of Scaffolds and Galleries and Mr. Mather is willing to yeeld eight thousand an hundred and twenty were all assembled in one place to heare the Word and that all the multitude of converts at Ierusalem were together in Salomons porch Act. 5. 12. I grant three thousand could heare one at once but alas this is a great uncertainty for independent congregations But 1. this is to be proved that eight thousand Mr. Mather hath not added many other multitudes mentioned Act. 5. 14. Act. 6. 1. v. 7. and elsewhere did meet daily in the Temple 2. Daily and ordinarily from house to house 3. To celebrate the Lords Supper daily in the Temple and in every private house there were need of many Scaffolds and Galleries to sit at one Table 4. To make one judicature and have more then power of consenting in Church censures as our brethren