counsail Sixtly that it was Pope-like and vnlawfull to put in and put out of his absolute authority and lastly that it is dangerous to builde vppon the examples of those times And thus as a man in a maze he goeth backeward and foreward finding nothing to rest vppon but his own meere vngodly and slaunderous surmises A fit guide he is for giddie heads to follow Whereas for the antiquitye of Archbishops the first generall councell that was after the Apostles times vz. the Councell of Nice is alledged in these words Let the auncient custome be kept throughout Egipt Libia and Pentapolis that the Bishop of Alexandria may haue the gouernment of all these c. First saie they nothing was graunted by those words to the Bishop of Alexandria but onely to sit in the highest place at meetings which is most direct against the tenor of that Canon and is but a sottish shift grounded especiallie vppon this that Beza in his annotations vppon Iohn 1. doth expound this word 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 which the Councell vseth to signifie dignitie or prerogatiue And secondly where it is said let the auncient custome preuaile The Bishops saith Cartwright comparing that decree with others made at that time and not before called that an ancient custome As if Ministers being assembled together to speak of a matter continued a score of Prouinciall Synodes and holden in the space of ten yeares should say in this sorte in suche and such thinges we will keepe our old custome Which they themselues might saie as well if they list concerning their bastardly Discipline that secretlie and seditiouslie eight or nine yeares since they haue agreed vppon after their fashion like dogges and cats in manie of their assemblies But if either he or anie other of the said Ministers should so saie they should certainelie in mine opinion speake verie foolishly and verie ignorauntlie And whether it is likelie that all the auncient Fathers assembled in that Councell would vse such a Sophistication in one of their Canons that iudge you or whether there was euer anie man before Cartwright so presumptuouslie impudent as to expound their words in this sort that I leaue to himselfe and his followers to consider of at their leasure But the Councell must speake according to his pleasure or otherwise marke how he commeth ouer it First he gibeth at these titles which are giuen vnto it to bee a notable and famous Councell secondlie he taketh vppon him to proue that the said Canon was not a good decree because as he saith some other decrees then made are not sound thirdly allowing the decision that was giuen by that Councell of the difference touching the perfect vnity of substance in Trinity For the rest he saith thus the most of the errors agreed vpon in that Councell were in the Discipline The most Belike there were some then in the Doctrine Those which he hath named for such great errors were not agreed vpon as matters of doctrine to my vnderstanding but were orders thoght meet in those daies for the pollicie of the Church I omit what reckning hath bin euer made of this Councell by al other Councels and fathers since that time Caluin is content to embrace the first foure generall Councels quantúm attinet ad fidei doctrinam so farre as they haue dealt with the doctrine of faith thogh Cartwright in the height of his pride do challenge the doctrine But euery man now will allow and disalow what he list The Arrians wil say as much of the doctrine as either Caluin or Cartwright do say of the discipline And so euerie Schismatick or Heretick look what serues their turne that is holie what they dislike that is erroneus About the choosing of Ministers much hath bin pretended for the peoples interest Against which conceit for the necessity of it amgst manie reasons prop oūded the Councell of Laodicea hath beene alledged where it was decreed about the yeare 338. that it ought not to bee permitted vnto the multitude to make election of them which should be preferred to the ministerie M. Caluin doth greatly allow of this canon which sheweth his liking of the peoples restraint and he affirmeth a sense vnto it as though that Coūcell had purposed to haue squared out the same platform for the erecting of Ministers that he hath deuised and established in Geneua Read the lawes of Geneua about the making of Ministers and you shall finde them whollie to agree with his words in this place Now if we can be content to receaue this exposition which Cartwright maketh being the verie marrow of Maister Caluins vz. the Canon meant not to haue the people secluded from the election but tendeth only to the directing of thē by the foreiudgement of the Elders he will bee content to let it passe without more adoe Otherwise notwithstanding Caluins commendation of it he can tell vs but vntrulie without anie warrant that this Canon is suspected whether it be a Bastard or no and that manie Councels are against it Maister Caluin confesseth that before the Councel of Nice there were first BB placed in their dioces aboue the Ministers then Archbishops ouer Bishops and lastlie in the saide Nicene Councell that there were Patriarchs appointed ouer Archbishops Now whereas the Councell of Antioch about some 15. yeares after saith It behoueth the Bishops in euery countrey to know their Metropolitane Bishop to haue care ouer the whole prouince propter quod for which cause all such as haue any busines must come to their Metropolitan city wherefore it pleaseth this Councell that he also excell in honor and that the other Bishops do nothing without him according to the ancient rule prescribed by our forefathers but those things only which pertaine to his own Dioces Cartwright deliuereth vs these gloses vpon it A Metropolitan Bishop saith he was nothing else but a Bishop of that place which was the chiefe citty of the Dioces or shire and as for the name it maketh no more difference betwixt Bishop and Bishop then when I say a Minister of London and a Minister of Newington Secondly there is no mentiō here that BB. are subiect to the Metropolitan Thirdly for the honor they should giue him I haue shewed it out of the Councel of Nice Fourthly the care for other Churches is but such as euery good Minister should haue of al churches Fiftlie the word Dioces should be parish For the Councell did not mean that the Bishops mentioned had Diocesses but euery one of them one town only hauing belonging vnto it certaine villages which did resort vnto his church as in Hitchin and diuers other places with vs. He should haue said Geneua but all this hee affirmeth most absurdly Besides this is his ordinary practise that because the word vsed amongest the Greeke writers ordinarily for a dioces doth likewise also signifie a parish he euer to falsifie such authors as are brought
shall we thinke that they heard of it and conspired together to ouerthrow Christes institution It may be said that peraduenture they heard of it and reproued it but could not reforme it Very well But where be then their admonitions petitions supplications and libels against it Where be their suspensions excommunications and giuings ouer to Sathan Not a word of that abuse in Saint Iohns Gospell written after the supposed defection but especially could he haue pretermitted such a high point in the booke of his Reuelations Or had he so many Reuelations of other matters of lesse importance forsooth and was such an ouerthrowe of Christes kingdome kept from him The Disciplinarian shiftes in this case to make the best of them can be but slaunderous and desperate But to graunt to all of them the acceptation of the Apostles times after the largest accompt there is surely nothing lesse to be found in those times then the Geneua platforme For then as particular congregations professed the Gospell you should haue found a Priest or minister of the worde and Sacramentes placed in them In Citties where there were diuerse such congregations or wherevnto sondry congregations of the country did appertaine then you shoulde haue found some Timothy a Bishop to gouerne them After that diuerse Citties had receaued the Gospell or some whole Countrey it was not long but some Titus was placed as Archbishop ouer them The twelue Apostles were in those times as twelue Patriarchs for all the world who planted directed visited commaunded and appointed the foresaid Church gouernours and what else they thought meet for the benefit of the church If I were presently to leaue this life and should speak what I thought of the present forme of Ecclesiasticall gouernement at this time in the Church of England I would take it vppon my soule so farre as my iudgement serueth me that it is much more Apostolicall then any other forme of gouernment that I know in any other reformed Churche in the world As for these men that talke so much of the Apostles times they are indeede but brablers Their deuised regiment hath not any resemblaunce at all of that which was in the Apostles times They haue peruerted in deede the true meaning of certaine places both in the scriptures and in the auncient fathers for a shew to serue their turnes as after it shall appeare and other proofes from those times they haue not any But you will say this is denied It is so and of that else-where Howbeit in the meane while that cannot hinder my purpose to search out the pretended antiquity of it For it is confessed by them that the Apostles practised no other form of Ecclesiasticall gouernment in their times then Christ himselfe in his time did ordaine and assigne vnto them to be practised afterwards And what forme was that Forsooth they say it was the very same forme of Church regiment that was amongest the Iewes and that Christ when he said Dic Ecclesiae tell the Church did translate the same being called Sanedrim Councell or Senate into the Church to be the onely lawfull gouernment thereof vnto the end of the world So as here then we must fetch another friske about to search for the antiquity of the Iewish Senate Maister Caluin after hee had deuised the Geneua platforme and leapt ouer more then a thousand and fiue hundred yeares for the strengthning of it by those wordes of Christ tell the Church vppon occasion he further saith that as farre as his auncient records will serue him the foresaide Iewish Sanedrim was deuised by the Iewes after theyr returne out of captiuity which was vppon the pointe of fiue hundred yeares before Christ Scimus c. wee knowe that from the time that the Iewes returned out of the captiuitye of Babilon the censure of manners and of doctrine was committed to a chosen Counsell which they called Sanedrim in Greeke 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 Hoc legitimum fuit Deoque probatum regimen c. This was a lawfull regiment and allowed of God And againe to cutte of all childishe cauilles how to shift this place as that Caluin saith not that it was then first instituted the sam e Caluin speaketh hereof more plainely where intreating of the seuenty Elders Numbers 2. that were chosen to assist Moyses he hath these wordes Certum quidem est c. it is very certaine that when the Iewes were returned from the captiuity of Babylon because it was not lawfull for them to create a king they did imitate this example in erecting of their Sanedrim Here is then the time as plainely set down again as needeth vz. after the Captiuity the cause why they ordained it vz. because they might haue no King and the patterne they did imitate vz. Moyses choosing of seuenty Elders to assist him in his gouernment But all this will not yet serue the turne For besides many other exceptions which are taken to Maister Caluins extraction of the Iewes Sanedrim out of Christs wordes tell the Church this is one that if they will needes inforce such a gouernment vppon the Church as was amongst the Iewes then they meane belike to wrest from the Prince the ciuile sword and to deale themselues in ciuile causes by their owne authority which they haue so much condemned in others though they meddle not otherwise with them then by the Princes appointment for that the Iewes-sayd gouernment or Sanedrim had to doe as well in ciuile causes as in any other that were Ecclesiastical Their aunswere to this exception is that in deede the gouernement they speake-of had to deale in Christs time with ciuile causes de facto but not de iure and that the Priests Iudaicis rebus confusis through their pride and ambition had crastily and corruptly procured such vnlawfull authority vnto themselues to the defacing and hinderaunce of the Lordes institution by Moyses at the first See how they carry vs from post to piller Maister Caluin is no body with Beza Now we must yet further backeward vz. from the restitution of the Iewes out of Babilon to Moyses his time almost a thousand and fiue hundred yeares Surely maister Caluin should haue been as well acquainted with Moyses doings as Beza is for that he hath written Commentaries vppon all his fiue Bookes which Beza hath not If Caluin in sifting the Text so painefully as he hath done cold finde no such matter in Moyses as Beza pretendeth it doth greatly preiudice in my opinion his lighter conceite But heare his wordes We must omnia reuocare ad institutionem Domini per Mosem loquentis vt quid iure factum sit intelligamus Call euery thing to the institution of the Lorde speaking by Moyses if we will haue a true vnderstanding of this gouernement and of the right authority thereof Very well Here then wee must haue a newe issue We must set vp as I said the Church-gouernement which the Apostles practised the Apostles practised
in their printed Supplication against all the new Iulianistes and Atheists mentioned CHAP. XXII They take from Christian Princes and ascribe to their pretended regiment the supreme and immediate authority vnder Christ in causes Ecclesiasticall IN the beginning of the reformation of Religion in Germany the learned men there opposing themselues verie mightely against the Popes vsurped iurisdiction did verie learnedly and soundlie shew and proue to their aduersaries the soueraigne authority of Christian Kinges and Princes in causes Ecclesiasticall within their owne dominions and countries Which authoritie vppon the banishment of the Pope as well there as after also in England was both there and here vnited by diuerse laws vnto the interest of their Crowns and to the lawfull right of ciuile regiment This doctrine since that time hath beene so very throughly maintained by sundrie notable men as Brentius against Asoto Bishop Horne against Fecknam Bishop Iuell against Harding and many other learned men against such other Papistes as haue taken vppon them to impugne it that I am perswaded had it not beene that newe aduersaries did rise opposed themselues in the matter the Papists before this time had beene vtterlie subdued For either vppon the attempt in Geneua for the erecting of the Consistorian gouernment which cannot endure any superior authority ouer it in causes Ecclesiasticall when Caluin and Viretus were banished the Citty or else vppon their restitution and after they had preuailed in their said attempt the Ministers there whether in reuenge of their banishment or least their Magistrats should at any time to come giue eare to the aforesaide Doctrine I will not saye but vppon some such occasion they did presentlie thrust themselues into this question that with such spitefull railing and bitternes as though they had conspired with the Pope and his Proctors against al other reformed churches that reiecting their pretended Discipline or new Papacie indeed had submitted themselues vnto the said lawfull authority of Christian Princes in causes Ecclesiasticall And hereof it came to speake the trueth plainelie that Caluin could not abide that King Henrye the eight should bee tearmed the head or supreme gouernour in Earth of the Churches of God within his Dominions And writing to one Myconius how certaine men in Geneua perswaded the Magistrates there Ne potestate quam illis Deus contulisset se abdicaerent that they woulde not depriue themselues of that authoritie which God had giuen them he tearmeth them according to the Consistorian language prophane spirites and mad men whom saith he if we speaking of himselfe and his fellowes shall ioine together to encounter and with a valiant and inuincible zeale fight for that holy authority vz. CoÌ„sistorian c the Lord with the breath of his mouth will destroy The saide Myconius in like sorte reporteth to Caluin from Basill how some in those borders did write to the like purpose in the behalfe of Christian Magistrates alledging the examples of Moises Dauid and other godlye Kinges which saith hee in effect is to make them Popes and then addeth quid si laici huiusmodi argumentis fuerint persuasi what if lay men shall be perswaded by such argumentes Indeede that will cutte the throate of all your soueraigntie But of all others that haue opposed themselues to Christian Princes in this matter besides Martin-Marre-Prelate and some such like companions amongest vs Viretus for rayling scoffing and biting passeth and excelleth Those that stand in defence of the Magistrates authoritie he resembleth to white Diuels and saith They are false Christians though they couer themselues with the cloake of the Gospell and the reformation of the same And againe The Ministers that haue forsaken the Romish Church in seeking to get the Magistrates and peoples fauour against the Pope Priestes and Monkes haue so despised the state of Priestood and Ministery of the Church and so magnified the state of the Magistrate that they now feele the fruict thereof he meaneth that the goods of the Church are thereby gone and wasted Further saith he they thought it a goodby reformation in the Churche to abolishe all the Canons and decrees with the good Statutes which the auncient Fathers and Doctors hadde ordayned to maintaine good Discipline in the Church They haue put all into the Magistrates handes and haue made them maisters of the Church which he tearmeth to be nothing else but the changing of the Popedome the taking away of both swordes from the Pope and giuing them to Princes the euerthrowing of a spirituall Pope and setting vppe a temporall Pope which vnder another colour will all come to one end Nay hee taketh vppon him to prooue that these Temporall Popes as hee tearmeth them are more to bee feared if they take roote and will be worse theâ— the Spirituall Popes and that so the olde Popishe â—yr 〈◊〉 is not taken awaie but onely changed and disguised And his reasons are First that the olde Pope had not the Temporall sworde in his own hand to punishe with death but was fayne to praye aide of the secular power which the neâ—e Pope's need not to doe Secondly that the olde Popes had some regarde in their dealinges of Councelles Synodes and aunciente Canons c. but the newe Popes will doe what they list without any Ecclesiasticall order bee it right or wronge Thirdlye because it chaunceth ofte that these newâ— Popes haue neither learning nor knowledge and yet these shall bee they that shall commaund Ministers and Preachers what they list on paine of their sworde and ministerie and shall appoint them lawes touching their estate and ministery and likewise to the whole Church Giue him also the hearing a little further I praie you Who so vseth such meanes to reforme the fault of the Pope doth not reforme the Church but deforme is more then it was before c. This I dare say that I see already in some places that vnder title of reformation by the Gospell some christian Princes haue in ten or twentie yeares vsurped more tyranny ouer the Churches in their Dominions then euer the Pope and his adherentes did in sixe hundred yeares And lastly If there be any Magistrates in these daies which vnder the title of authority and power that God hath giuen them c. will make the Ministers of the Church subiect vnto them as the Pope hath made them subiect to him and his c. the same doe verily set vp a newe Pope changing onely his coate and maske And thus far Viretus in his thirde Dialogue of white Diuels which was not written I feare by the instinct of anie good spirite nor without some euill direction translated into English of purpose to seede the seditious fier that our turbulent Copper-smiths following this Dâ—sciplinarie tract haue kindled alreadie amongest vs. I haue omitted his earnestnes in the behalfe of his own and Caluins Discipline that the authority thus denied to Princes might be yeelded to them and
their followers and that all men both Princes and others would be content to submitte their neckes vnder that yoke Which were to make Princes saith Erastus trulie quasi carniâ—ices as it were the executioners onely of their pleasures quemadmâ—dunâ— in Papatu factum videmus as we see it practised in the Papacy and in truth is nothing els but that I may vse their phrases to banish one Pope and admitte of thousands or to deliuer their Scepters from the tyrannie of the old Pope and to subiect them to the tyranny of these new Popes euen to excommunication as Cartwright with his English crue doe affirme and so consequently to depriuation or death as Buchanan the Scottishe Consistorian teacheth My purpose is only in this place to make it knowne from whence our brotherhood haue furnished themselues with their inuectiues against the authoritye of Princes in causes ecclesiasticall and that whatsoeuer they pretend in words yet they are of the same minde that Viretus is if they durst so plainly vtter it Or if they be not let them confes in print that the premisses cited out of his sayde dialogue are false and then for that pointe let them be credited But that I am perswaded they will neuer doe I am sure if they should that besides their opposition with Geneua they should also recant their owne assertions which directly exclude the ciuile magistrates from dealing in ecclesiasticall causes As for example The whole gouernment of the Church is to be committed to Ministers Elders Deacons The church is now to the worldes end to haue no other offices in it but of pastors Doctors Elders and Deacons They which are no Elders of the Church haue nothing to doe in the gouernment of the same They deuide the Church wherein anye Magistrate King or Emperor is a member into those which are to gouerne vz. Pastors Doctors and Elders and into such as are to obey vz. magistrates of all sortes the people Indeed Beza will haue the ciuile magistrate one of the Church-officers But Cartwright will not consent for his part to yeald them so much For saith he as Pastors cannot bee officers of the common wealth no more can the magistrate bee called properlye a church-officer And in truth what Beza graunteth it is in effect nothing sauing for a shew and to serue their own turnes forsooth vt tranquillitatem ecclesiae procurent â—t tueantur Their office is to procure and defend the peace of the Church whereas else where hee agreeth with Viretus yee may bee sure and in his Booke against Erastus peremptorily affirmeth That Princes haue no more to doe with matters of the Church then Ministers haue with the affayres of the common wealth Which by their doctrine generallie is none at all But saide I hee agreeth with Viretus I might saie rather with Cardinall Allen and Saunders if he bee the author of the Booke intituled Vindicie contra Tyrannos as it was reported For there hee saith that if anie Prince shall challenge to himselfe both Tributes that is authoritie aswell in Ecclesiasticall causes as ciuile as by the circumstances of the place it is euident hee doth as if hee would like the old Giaunts scale heauen and surprise it and is guiltie of treason and doth thereby forfeite his fee that hee holdeth no lesse than a subiect or vassall shall that vsurpeth the kinges royaltyes and in this respect such kinges are very often depriued thereof much more iustlye then a vassall or subiecte maye bee insomuch as there is some proportion of comparison betwixte a vassall or subiect and his Lorde but betwixt God and the king betwixt a wretched man and the Almightie there can bee no proportion at all Furthermore Cartwright and some others with him do affirme that Kings and princes do holde their kingdomes and dominions vnder Christ as hee is the sonne of God onlye before all worldes coequall with the father and not as hee is mediator the heade and gouernor of the Church Whereuppon they doe first builde that all Kinges aswell heathen as Christian receiuing but one commission and equall authoritie immediately from God haue no more to doe with the Church the one sorte then the other as being in no respect deputed for Church officers vnder Christ otherwise then if they bee good Kinges to maintaine and defende it And secondlye that as God hath appoynted all Kinges and Ciuile Magistrates his immediate Lieutenants for the gouernment of the worlde in temporall causes so Christ as hee is mediator and gouernour of his Church hath his immediate officers to rule in the Church vnder him and those they saie are no other then Pastors Doctors and Elders to whom they ascribe as large authoritie in causes Ecclesiasticall And all this as I take it they haue learned of the Papists For whereas maister Harding saith that the office of a King in it selfe is all one euerie where not onely amongst the Christian Princes but also amonge the Heathen and thereuppon concludeth that a christian Prince hath no more to doe in the deciding of church-matters or in making ceremonies and orders for the Church then a Heathen Cartwright alloweth of his iudgement and doth expresly affirme that hee himselfe is of the same opinion professing his mislike of those who teach another right of a Christian and of a prophane magistrate Whereat Trauerse his scholler aymeth in like sorte when hee saith in effect that heathen princes being conuerted to the fayth receiue no further increase of theyr power whereby they maye deale in causes ecclesiasticall then they had before And lastly it is no lesse agreeable vnto their seconde assertion that whereas the Papists saye the Pope with his Cardinalls and Bishops are a true representation of the Catholicke Church of Christ vnder whom the Pope being Peters supposed Successor is the ministeriall and immediate chiefe gouernour of it here vppon earth now Cartwright and others doe affirme that euerye particular parish hauing such an Eldershippe in it as they desire is a liuelye patterne and representation of the whole and catholicke Church of Christe vnder whom saye they their Pastors Doctors and Elders are the ministeriall and immediate gouernours by right of euery such Catholicke parish-Church vppon earth And thus if I bee not deceiued that playnelye appeareth which was in the beginning of this Chapter propounded vz. that for all their protestations they derogate from Christian Princes and arrogate to their Elderships the supreame and immediate authority vnder Christ in causes ecclesiasticall CHAP. XXIII In the oppugning of Princes authoritye in causes Ecclesiasticall they ioyne with the Papists THere is nothing will lightlye anger our pretended Brotherhood more then if ti be tolde them that they denie in effect with the common aduersaries her Maisties lawefull stile and prerogatiue Royall in causes ecclesiasticall Oâ— saye they wee doe not wee are slaundered wee yealde vnto her Highnes
sibi persuasit papa diaboli vicarius The pastors themselues shall not be Christ's vicars as he is priest vvhich office notvvithstanding the pope the diuels vicar tooke falsely vpon him The pastors he saith shall not be Christs vicars as he is a priest And thē ther is no remedie They shal not How shal they hold then immediatly of him as he is a prophet That is it They are his substitutes or vicars saith hee onely as he is a prophet Did any man euer say so before Surely not to my remembrance Maister Fenner in his diuinitie perused by maister Cartvvright and allowed of at Geneua can find but two kinds of offices appertaining to Christ vz. his priesthood and his kingly office and therfore he maketh prophesie a part of his priesthood It is much what also to the same purpose and directly contrary to I. B. that the diuinitie grounds printed at Geneua do affirme by the mouth of one Abraham Henric where they say Pastorū ministeriū vt olim sacerdotum c. The dutie of pastors as in times past of the priests consisteth in three things teaching administring of the sacraments publicke praier So as either I.B. must be content that ministers may be Christs vicars as he is a priest or else I see not how he will bestow them You will say peraduēture that they may be Christs vice-gerēts as he is a king but that as I sayd he will not indure If any might be Christs vicars sayth he as he is a king the Apostles Prophets Euangelists Ministers and Doctors might be his vicars At ne hi quidem quia rex est dicendi sunt vicarij But they neither are to be called Christs vicars as he is a king Well some place they must haue there is no remedie I dare say you would smile if it should so fall out that all our consistorian ministers will needs bee Christs substitutes in that he is a king Surely I must tell you it proueth so For as touching I. B. they reckon him I perceaue but a simple politian Christs kingdome it hath bene truly vrged is not of this world it is plea good enough against our bishops but it holdeth not to impaire the estimation of our petit consistorian kings A distinction will helpe thē at a pinch Christs kingdome is not of this world but it ought to be in this world Do you not here desire to know what this kingdome is That I may not keepe you long in suspence it is the Geneuian Eldership and euen the very same kingdome saith our counterpoizer vvhere of Christ spake many times after his resurrection by the space of sortie daies as the Iesuits themseluss are compelled to confesse See the seducer Who cōpelled the Iesuits to say so would not a man haue thought that this place had bene vrged by some protestants against the papists for the ouerthrow of some especiall points of poperie wher vpon after much paines the Iesuits bad bene driuen in spight of their heads to admit of the interpretatiō mētioned But it is clean contrary the Iesuits do abuse this place of purpose in the behalfe of the Antichristian Romish form of church regimēt so doth the Counterpoizer following the Iesuits therin for the setting forth of their Geneuian papacy or Regalitie I could adde here a number of strange sayings whereof you shall here anon in some other chapters following concerning this new presbiteriall kingdome But now it is more pertinent to make the point I haue in hand more apparant vnto you Christ as a king prescribed the forme of ecclesiasticall gouernment saith Cartvvright not as a priest nor as a prophet but as a king With Cartvvright his scholler Dudlie Fenner doth agree in this point setteth downe the first part of his kingly administration to be about the building and continuance of the church by the officers appointed Eph. 4.11.12.13 Maister Beza also he runneth the same course how Christ being a king the head of the church doth administer his kingdome Per legitime vocatos pastores by pastors lavvfully called And Sonnius in like manner affirmeth that Christ doth execute his kingly office in the collectiō of the church by the ministerie of the word and sacraments and by the internall gouernment of his spirit and the external of the ministerie Here is indeed very roiall preferment for al the ministers of the word But I meruaile how the ruling elders do hold their authoritie They are neither priests nor prophets of likelihood then they must be little kings Wel then Christ is the king the presbiterie is his kingdome his immediat vice-gerents they are all of them What Surely by the due course of degrees which are acknowledged the pastors must be all of thē as it were emperors the doctors kings the elders dukes and the deacons lords of the treasurie c. And for the authoritie of euery such kingdom it must needs fal out to be very soueraign For if euery presbiterie as it is before noted be properly to be called the body of Christ and the true portraiture of the catholick church that euery one of thē is of equall authoritie now that the officers in them are Christs immediat vice-gerēts within their own kingdoms who shall controll any of their doings or whither should a man appeale if he found himselfe iniuried I remember maister Bezas saying That euery eldership is the tribunall seat of Christ. Which is all one almost with the assertion of some Romish parasits that the pope and Christ haue but one consistorie They tell vs of appellations from an eldership to a classis from a classis to a prouinciall synod from a prouincial synod to a nationall from a nationall vnto a generall councell But as the papists do make euery appellation from the pope to be as absurd and all one as if the appeale were made from Christ so must it necessarily follow to be as vntollerable to appeale from any consistorie it being as it hath bene affirmed the tribunall seat of Christ and the officers in it Christs immediat gouernors And because it is pretended that the regiment they speake of is in the best perfection at Geneua I would gladly know whither a man might appeale vpon occasion from that eldership there The churches of Bern or Zuricke haue no more to do with the church of Geneua they will say then Geneua hath to do with them or an eldership in Scotland with another of the low countries But I haue taried too long vpon this matter in collecting vpon their contrarie assertions Therefore to conclude I would wish all christian and godly magistrats that haue as yet in their hands the lawfull authoritie in church-church-causes which belongeth vnto them by the word of God to keepe it stil vntill at the least these disciplinarie deuisers be fully resolued whether we must account thē priest prophets or kings priests if they be Christs substitutes as he is a
scriptures So Cyprian so Gregory c. did carry some weight in S. Augustines opinion Those things which diuerse notable men haue alledged out of the auncient Fathers for the iustification of the present ecclesiasticall gouernment in the church of England ought not so lightly to bee regarded with euery princox What the Fathers haue written that agreeth not with our Phantasticall giddye headed fellowes pleasures they write it not of parciality either to grieue them or to gratifie vs but as trueth led theÌ„ Quod inuenerunt in ecclesia teneruÌ„t quod didiceruÌ„t docueruÌ„t quod a patribus acceperunt hoc filiis tradideruÌ„t that which they found in the church saith Augustine they held that which they had learned they taught that which they had receaued of theyr fathers they deliuered to theyr children Though Cartwright his companie do carrie so base a conceit of those times wherein the auncient fathers liued yet the Fathers themselues did not so thinke of theÌ„ Iulianus the heriticke did speake as it seemeth insuch a scornfull sorte of theÌ„ as our Sectaries do But S. Augustine laieth it to his reproch as an apparant argument of his great folly presumptioÌ„ thinking it a most absurd point for him so to vse them Vsque adeò permiscuit imis summa longus dies c. hath time so confounded all things saith Augustine is darknes growen to bee such light and is light it selfe turned into such darknes vt videant Pelagius Celestinus Iulianus et caeci sunt Hilarius Cpyrianus Ambrosius that Pelagius Celestinâ—s and Iulianus can see and Hilary Cyprian and Ambrose are become blind And surely I do not perceaue why I may not without offence applie the same wordes to those men in these daies which treade in the saide fellowes steppes concerning this their contempt pride Were there neuer learned men before you were taught the principles of the Geneua discipline was wisdom dead till you were borne Doe you know what was in the Apostles times better then they did who succeeded the Apostles were the auncient Fathers able to defende the greatest misteries of our saluation against so many pestilent heretiques and were they ignorant in the matters of the externall gouernment of the church Knew they the distinction of the three persons in the blessed Trinitie could they not find what difference Christ allowed off to be continued in his Church betwixt a Bishop and a priest Is the darknes which pride carieth with it groweÌ„ to be so light and is the light that shewed it selfe so many waies in the ancient fathers as in their singular learning great humilitie become such darknes that Cartwright Trauerse Fenner and such like but the shadows of learned men in respect should be thought so clearly sighted shall Ireneus Tertullian Cyprian Ambrose Hierome Chrysostome Augustine Gregory Hilarye and all the rest of those worthie men be reckoned blind Surely he is a bussard that thinketh so And therefore I will coÌ„clude this chapter with another saying of S. Augustines against such busie innouators as you are oportet vt populi christiani vestris prophanis nouitatibus anteponant c. It is meet that all christian people should preferre the auncient fathers before your nouelties eisque potius adherere quà m vobis rather sticke fast to their iudgements then to runne after your phansies CHAP. XXVIII Theyr dealing with all the new writers and many reformed churches when they make against them THis is a grounde layde downe by Cartwright that few men that are of any stayde or sounder iudgement in the scriptures and haue seene or read of the gouernment and order of other churches are against them in such matters as they haue broched vnto vs. And agreablie to this ground his answeres are framed when any thing is vrged against him out of anie of the new writers except Caluin and BeZa If either of them do happen to crosse him it is strange to see how he doubleth shifteth As for any other they are but a puffe with him hee careth not greatly howe hee handleth them Pellicane Bucer Bullinger Illyricus and Musculus affirming with all the auncient Fathers that Timothye was Bishop of Ephesus what then sayth Cartwright If they were for one a hundred they could not beare downe the Apostle As though they hadde euer ment it Luther expoundinge a place of Zacharie contrarie to his liking his exposition sayth Cartwright is out of season Musculus affirmeth that the places 20. of Sainct Mathew 10. of sainct Marke and 22. of sainct Luke vos autem non sic doe not condemne Superioritie but an ambitious desire and tyrannicall vsage of it but Caluin as learned as hee sayth Cartwright is of my iudgement Bucer holdeth that the sayde 20. of Mathew doth propound a generall rule to all magistrats and christians Where Cartwrights extenuating the authoritie of man braueth out Bucer with this that his iudgment hath counterpoise of other as learned Whereas Peter Martyr Bullinger and Gualter do bring diuerse reasons for the lawfull vse of the surplise and such other apparrell as is appointed with vs for Ministers Cartwright is so farre from being moued with their authoritie as that he aduentureth to confute their said reasons after his manner very sophistically affirming in effect but falsely that either they vnderstoode not auncient fathers alleadged by them for that purpose or that they peruerted their meaning Bishop Ridly and Maister Bucer approouing that where there are no preachers there should bee godly learned homilies read in those Churches Cartwright thus dismisseth Bishop Ridley being a partie in this cause hee ought to be no witnesse And for Maister Bucers wordes he saith they are not to be weighed insinuating that his booke concerning his iudgement in king Edwardes daies vppon the communion booke is counterfeited Againe of maister Bucer for his allowing of priuate baptisme and of the signe of the Crosse likewise of the ring in marriage and that the parties married should receiue the communion he saith Bucer hath other grosse absurdities to this authoritie I could oppose other men of as great authoritie sometimes Homer sleepeth his reasons are verie ridiculous verie slender and colde and sauour not of the learning and sharpnesse of the iudgement of maister Bucer Maister Fox in like sorte setting downe his full approbation of the present state ecclesiasticall that Archbishops should be in degree aboue Bishops and Bishops in degree aboue other Ministers and relying for this his iudgement partly vpon the scriptures and partly vppon the primatiue Church and concluding that this is to keepe an order duely and truely in the Church according to the true nature and definition of order by the authoritie of Augustine he is I say thus censured Maister Fox writing a storie doth take greater paine and looketh more diligently to declare what is done and in what time and by whome then howe iustly or vniustly how
as much authoritie as anye King maie lawfully challenge we abbridge her of nothing that the worde of God alloweth her and many other such ambiguous protestations they vse to make in this behalfe But they plav the deceitfull sophisters whom the Lord abhorreth For these are some of their grounds A man would thinke that they had taken them out of Hosius The Christian soueraigne ought not to be called the head vnder Christ of the particular and visible churches vvithin his dominions No ciuile magistrat hath prehemineÌ„ce by ordinary authoritie to determine of church-causes No ciuile magistrat in Councels or assemblies for church-matters can either be cheefe moderator ouer-ruler iudge or determiner No ciuile magistrat hath such authoritie as that vvithout his consent it should not be lavvfull for ecclesiastical persons to make any church-order or ceremonie No ciuile magistrat ought to receiue either tenths or first fruits of any ecclesiasticall persons The iudgemeÌ„t of church-matters pertaineth to God they ought ordinarily to be handled by the church-officers the principallitie or direction of the iudgement of them is by Gods ordinance pertaining to the ministerie of the Church As for the making of orders and ceremonies in the church they do vvhen there is a constituted and ordered church pertaine vnto the ministers of the church and to the ecclesiasticall gouernors and that as they meddle not vvith the making of ciuile lavves and lavves for the common-vvealth so the ciuile magistrate hath not to ordaine ceremonies pertaining to the church The ministers are to determine of controuersies as they arise and to make or abolish needfull or hurtfull ceremonies Herevnto may be added that which is before obserued how he ascribeth the same right in church causes to an infidel or prophane magistrat that he doth to any Christian princes and of their mutuall agreement with the Pope himselfe in the manner of both their excluding of Christian magistrats from hauing any thing to do as vnder Christ in his Church Hitherto then concerning all these puritane-popish assertious so much derogating from the lawfull authoritie of Christian princes There is but only this difference betwixt them the rankest Iesuits in Europe that what the one sort ascribe to the Pope and his shauelings the other do challenge to themselues and their Aldermen Vpon which occasion Cartvvright finding himselfe with his fellowes ranged to walke step by step with such a crue taketh vpon him like some dawber or bricklaier to make a high wall as he tearmeth it betwixt the Papists and them in this point But God knoweth it is a simple one and so thinne that you may easily looke through it and discerne them marching both togither First sayth he the Papists exempt their priests from the punishment of the ciuile magistrate vvhich vve doe not It is reason in deed you should not But if you doe not what doe these things mean The author of the second admonition desireth that he and his companions may be deliuered by act of Parlement from the authoritie of the ciuile magistrates as Iustices and others and from their inditings and finings Furthermore where Cartvvright sayth that the authoritie of christian Princes commeth immediately from God and not from Christ as he is mediator and that the authoritie of the svvord is the same ordinance of God as vvell in heathen princes as in Christians doth it not follow that in his iudgement Christian princes haue no authoritie ouer any of their subiects but only as they are men and not as they are either Christians or priests If you thinke it doth not then what T.C. wanteth I.B. doth supplie and that in proper tearmes as if it please you to peruse the place it will appeare vnto you Besides there goeth a letter from hand to hand written by certaine gentlemen of Suffolke to the Lords of her maiesties councell wherein there is great complaint made in the behalfe of certaine of the brotherhood as a matter fit to bee reformed that being ministers they had at their assises bene presented brought to the barre endicted arraigned and condemned Which dealing they tearme to be very hard and tending to the vtter discredit of the vvhole ministerie and profession of truth So that of all likelihood for all Cartvvrights saying both he and his fellowes could be well contented to be exempted from the ciuile magistrats But let vs heare the papists vpon this point or first part of Cartvvrights wall and peraduenture you shall find them as forward for their subiection herein as hee himselfe is or at the least as small a difference betwixt them as euer you saw though it were betweene two twiâ—nes Good kings may put bishops and priests in mind of their duties and bridle both their riot and arrogancie The prince by the vvord of God may make lavves for the obseruation of both tables and punish the trangressors I do here presently offer my selfe to receaue a corporall â—ath vpon the Euangelists that I do vtterly thinke and am persuaded in my conscience that the Queenes highnesse is the onely supreme gouernour of this realme and of all other her highnesse dominions and countries c. And further I shall presently svveare that her highnesse hath vnder God the soueraignty and rule ouer all maner of persons borne vvithin these her highnesse realms of vvhat estate ecclestasticall or temporall soeuer they be Fatemur person as EpiscoparuÌ„ qui in toto orbe fuerunt Romano imperatori subiectos fuisse VVe confesse that the persons of all the Bishops in the vvorld vvere subiect to the Romane emperour Rex praeest hominibus Christianis verum non quia sunt Christiani sed quia sunt homines quoniam ipsi episcopi sunt homines episcopis etiam ea ex parte rex praeesset The king ruleth christiaÌ„s not as they are christiaÌ„s but as they are men because bishops are men the king in that respect hath authoritie ouer them Harding also confesseth that if the causes be ciuile and temporall and all other causes our reformers do tie to their Elderships Bishops may be conuented before ciuile authoritie And it appeareth amongst all the learned Papists that the cheese prerogatiue they haue had in this point hath proceeded from the meere fauour and good will of Christian Princes the rather to couer and keepe from the people such faults in the Clergie as might breed their contempt Hitherto then this wall riseth vp but easily especially if I should adde in this place the brethren of Scotland their diuinitie for this matter when they not the Papists gaue the king and state occasion to make it by act of Parlement 1584 treason for any man to refuse to answer before the king though it were concerning any matter which was ecclesiasticall Now concerning the second part of Cartvvrights wall it is this The Papists sayth he vvill haue the Prince to
execute vvhatsoeuer they conclude be it good or bad vve say that if there be no lavvfull ministerie as in time of necessitie Dauid did eat the shevv bread vvhich vvas othervvise lavvfull for the priests only to eat of that then the Prince ought to set order and that vvhen there is a lavvfull ministerie if it shall agree of any vnlavvfull thing the Prince ought to stay it Surely you are very proper and right liberall sayers Doth not your admonisher affirme that if your platforme were once on foot all men must stand vnto the determinations of your maiesticall church officers that I may vse maister VVakes tearme except it should happen in some matter of faith they should make decrees against the vvord of God And I pray you if any such thing should happen how could the king reforme it or as you say stay it He iudgeth their sayd orders to be erronious and perceaueth the mischiefes that do depend vpon them but how shall he redresse and preuent them Shall he compell the authors of them to assemble themselues together againe and to retract and condemne all such their decrees They are of that humor as experience hath told vs that it is vnlikely they will be compelled to any thing No it were too great a disgrace for them to yeeld in any thing that once they haue broached were it good or bad but especially when it is decreed in any of their worshipfull meetings And besides if the king should presse them too far in such a matter he might find them peraduenture but very ticklish subiects Cartvvright to shuffle vp some blundering answer to these points sayth That if in such a case the church ministers should shevv themselues obstinate and vvould not be aduised by the Prince they should thereby prooue themselues to be an vnlavvfull ministerie that vpon such an occasion the Prince might remooue thē Remouethē How By any ordinarie authoritie which you do allow to the christian magistrats in causes ecclesiasticall But you haue told vs before your mind herein In effect that it must be done by an extraordinarie authoritie euen by the same right that Dauid did eat of the shew-bread which were it not in such a case of necessitie none but the Priests might in any wise eat of For otherwise as it is before mentioned where such a platforme is in execution as they seeke for the Prince hath not any thing to doe by their doctrine God knoweth either with placing or displacing of church ministers Or if Cartvvright will say that I wrest his words to the worst construction and that he meaneth plainely as purposing thereby to confirme for his part her maiesties ordinarie supreme authoritie in those maner of causes I am content he make the best of his owne words that he can whether he meant ordinarie or extraordinarie authoritie so that when he hath done he will stand vnto it But let him say what he is able yet he hath a woolfe by the eares and shall neuer be able so to shift his hands but that it will follow that both he and all the pastors doctors and elders that are combined with him are by his words both obstinate and vnlawfull ministers except he shall withdraw this part of his wall as being to weake to make such a separation from the papists as he pretendeth For notwithstanding that the present gouernment of the church of England is established and confirmed by a nationall synod with the generall cōsent of the whole land to be a most lawful godly forme of gouernment notwithstanding that her Maiestie doth so thinke of it and hath shewed herselfe many waies as by her acts of parlemēt her proclamatiōs her sundry speeches yea by the punishing imprisoning of some certaine persons vtterly to dislike of their pretended discipline as being in her princely iudgement a meere forgerie vaine conceit of busie restlesse heads cōtrary to the word of God and ancient practise of all the godly churches in the world for 1500 yeares all these things I say notwithstanding yet they haue rayled libelled raged against the said present gouernmēt They haue and do still neglect as well her maiesties setled iudgment of the vnlawfulnesse of their decreed platforme as also her lawes her pleasure and many commandements that they should desist hereafter from that their erronious deuise and submit themselues quietly to the forme established Nay they are so far from yeelding in this point to any authoritie of her maiestie whether ordinarie or extraordinarie as that they haue attempted by very vnlawfull and seditious means to aduance their purposes against her highnesse will and do plainly giue it out that they wil not desist they will not hold their peace they will haue their desires though they be driuen to vndertake such means for that end as will make their hearts to ake who are their cheese impugners Stand now to your words maister Cartvvright if you meant plainly vz. If the ministerie shall agree of any vnlavvfull thing the prince ought to stay it and then are not all the packe of you concluded by your said answer to be obstinat persons and a false ministerie If you haue any refuge in the world it is this that whatsoeuer the said nationall councell the learned mens opinions that do impugne you the lawes of this realme all the ancient churches and her maiestie relying vpon them whatsoeuer they altogether do thinke iudge to be lawfull you care not or you are sory for it but all that notwithstanding you are sure for that you haue decreed amōgst your selues vz. that you haue not therein erred and therefore they must all beare with you though you rest your selues vpon the truth of your own decrees giue no place either to councel law prince fathers learned men or any other authoritie whatsoeuer that maketh against you And will not H.N. and Barovv will not al hereticks schismaticks say as much where is then the princes authoritie you spake of For staying such kind of proceeding what course shall he take These ministers as I sayd conclude vpon their owne deuises The king considereth of them and findeth them vnlawfull but they denie it what shall hee do Your refuge Cartvvright is euerie Heretickes refuge If her Maiestie with all the reasons mentioned cannot stay you and your sect let neuer any king or ciuile magistrat looke by any authoritie which you do giue vnto them in causes ecclesiasticall to stay the fancies of any such fellowes But the substance of all their deuises is nothing but pretences of things that are not And agreeable therevnto is this second part of Cartvvrights wall of the difference betweene him and the Papists who in effect for ought I see are as franke to Christian Princes euen in this point as either he or his fellowes Princes extraordinarily sayth Harding haue laudably intermedled vvith Religion as iudges and rulers of spirituall causes Good Christian Princes euer tooke into their
hands the carefull charge or procuration of Churches as pertaining to their dutie Good Kings and Princes do maintain true religion and by the aduise of their priests vvhen any great defections happen do pull dovvn the false And where Cartvvright doth charge the Papists to constraine their Princes for the keeping of their decrees be they good or bad although it be true in deed that they do so and that those of his owne stampe likewise vvhere they raigne are nothing more fauourable vnto them as farre as their might will reach yet as he doth in this matter prefer himselfe and his adherents before them it is but a meere cauil For the Papists holding this ground that their Councels and Popes in such their decrees and conclusions as it pleaseth them to make cannot erre that being graunted it followeth of necessitie that euery Christian Prince ought to put them in execution and to punish those that shall oppose themselues against them So that vvhatsoeuer they do impose vpon the Church they affirme it is good euen as Cartvvright doth his discipline which he would intrude vpon vs both of them ioining in this point that as wel Cartvvrights new ministery as the popes priesthood will be the iudges of their owne decrees whether they be good or bad and then what leaue they to the Christian magistrat more the one sort then the other Surely this wall riseth very slowly as yet but peraduenture the third part will be higher thē the other two when you haue viewed them iudge Our meaning is not sayth Cartvvright vtterly to seclude the magistrat out of our church-meetings for often times a simple man as the prouerbe sayth the Gardiner hath spoken to good purpose c. He may be assistant and haue his voice in such assemblies Out of question you deale very bountifully with your soueraign But to helpe him in building this part of his wall I will set downe what is the vttermost that he yeeldeth to herein if hee haue not retracted the same as afterward it shall be considered The Prince may call a councell of the ministerie and appoint both the time and the houres for the same The ciuile magistrat is not vtterly to be excluded from such assemblies as do meet for the deciding of church-causes and orders he may be there assistant and haue his voice but he may not be either moderator there nor determiner nor iudge Neither may the orders or decrees there made be sayd to haue bene done by the Princes authoritie And therefore in times past the cannons of councels vvere not called the Emperors but the Bishops decrees Princes may be assistant in councels and ought to defend the same assembled if any behaue themselues there tumultuously or othervvise disorderly the Prince may punish him The Prince ought to confirme the decrees of such councels to see the decrees executed and to punish the contemners of them Thus hereof Cartvvright and now come in the papists It vvas lavvfull in times past for emperors to call councels to appoint both time and place for the same And maister Harding confesseth that princes may do so still by the aduise of the clergie Princes and their embassadors according to their estates haue most honourable seats in all councels may sit there as assistants giue their aduises make exhortations to the Bishops to be very circumspect and carefull and in the end may subscribe vvith them to the causes there decreed But they may not sit there as iudges moderators or determiners and therfore in their subscriptions they vvrōt not as bishops did definientes subscripsimus but consentientes Neither vvere the councels called Imperatoria but Episcopalia Princes may be assistant in councels Nay sayth Saunders they may be presidents ouer Bishops in councels ad pacem concordiam retinendam vt nullum fieri tumultum permittant tumultuantem vero custodiae mancipent and cause such assemblies to auoid all delaies All Christian princes ought to confirme the decrees of generall councels to see the decrees executed and to punish the contemners of them Compare these places with Cartvvrights words and tell me what great difference ye find betweene them But what if Cartvvright as I sayd haue retracted these points then it must needs be confessed that the Papists do yeeld more to Christian princes in causes ecclesiastical then the puritans CHAP. XXIIII Their disagreement in suppressing the authoritie of Princes in church-causes and in the aduancing of their ovvn IT appeareth in the latter end of the two and twentith chapter how by a fine distinction of raigning vnder Christ as he is onely God and vnder Christ as he is mediator they first would exclude all Christian princes from their lawfull authoritie in causes ecclesiasticall ascribing no more vnto them then as if they were heathens except it be to execute their pleasures and to maintaine them which they say is the dutie also of all the heathen rulers and secondly how by the same distinctiō they lift vp their own horns as if it were so many popes challenging euery one of them together with their elderships to be Christs immediat vicars for church-causes vpon earth In the substance of which doctrine although they do all agree yet when they come to the particular grounds whervpō they would gladly lay their foundations of it there they are distracted and do confound themselues I meane not to enter here any further into this matter then as cōcerning the sayd distinction with the seuerall branches thereof Cartvvright bestoweth soure leaues to prooue that no ciuile magistrat may be called the head of the particular church within his dominion And his cheefest reasons are drawn from the parts of the distinction mentioned Now when he laboureth so much vpon this word head hee knoweth that we meane thereby nothing els but a chiefe authoritie and he wrangleth of purpose that whereas his opinion is direct that no ciuile magistrat as he is a ciuile magistrat hath any office in the Church he might dazle the eies of his reader as though he could bee content to maintaine the right of the crowne and did only insist vpon the word head But to muster them together about the said distinction Cartvvright sayth that our Sauiour Christ as hee is the sonne of God only or as he is onely the Creator and preseruer of mankind coequall vvith his father he is the gouernour of kingdoms and common-vvealths and not as hee is the sauiour and redeemer of mankind But the humble motioner doth tell vs from Scotland another tale peraduenture vpon the credit of the brethren there Christ sayth he hath all povver and superioritie aboue all principalities either in heauen or in earth he is Lord of lords and King of kings and the Prince of kings in the earth he is Lord of all kingdoms and common-vvealths to dispose and rule them at his pleasure
Bishoppes grounding themselues vppon one of Cartwrightes principles That any increase of authoritie being added to a Church-Minister dooth cleane chaunge his Ministerie and maketh it a new Ministerie Whervpon they conclude that Archbishoppes and Bishoppes hauing receyued an increase of theyr authorities by diuerse Councelles c. are become to bee of a newe Ministerie neuer ordayned by Christ nor his Apostles and so consequently vnlawfull and to bee abolished The follie of this collection hath beene shewed manie wayes both by reasons and by examples but yet they haue not beene satisfied But nowe you shall see they are put to silence for euer For Beza is peremptorie to the contrarie of that which they haue so inforced In his booke agaynst Doctor Sarauia speaking of a place of Ieromes how Bishoppes were ordayned for orders sake c. hee sayth in effecte That when they had such authoritie giuen then for orders sake Mutatio non suit in re ipsa id'est in ipso ordine sed tantùm in ordinis modo There was no chaunge made in the thinge it selfe that is in the order but in the manner or measure of the order And afterwards more plainely where hee setteth downe another manner of principle than Cartwrightes vz. That wee must distinguish betweene the nature of a thing and that which adhereth vnto it accidentally because Eo in aliud cōmutato vel sublato res ipsa permanet The accident beeing chaunged or taken away the thing it selfe remaineth Whereupon if I vnderstande him he groweth to this issue That the increase of any such authority as is before mentioned or the alteration of the manner or order is not of the essence of the Ministery but a thing that is accidentall and may be chaunged according to the circumstaunces of times and places And hee bringeth this example Accidentale fuit c. It was accidentall c. Vt vnusquispiam iudicio caeierorum compresbyterorum delectus presbyterio 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 esset permaneret That one beeing chosen by the iudgement of the rest of his fellow-priests or Elders should be the President or the Prelate ouer the presbytery and so continue You will aske mee perhaps how this geare comes about that Beza is so opposite to Cartwright I will tell you my conceit I suppose that matters of their pretended Discipline are growen to greater ripenes in Geneua then they are thankes be to God in England and that therfore Beza is more franke to let vs see what they generallie shoote at then Cartwright dare bee as yet For howsoeuer Cartwright presumed to tell vs as it seemeth vntrulie that their moderator forsooth should be chosen but for one action only and that Caluin being chosen to that office for two yeares so as I take it from two yeares to two yeares misliked that small preheminence should so long remayne with one which in time might breede inconuenience and that Beza also misliked it for that cause Yet now you see that Beza is far from that base conceit thinketh that that office maie bee permanent and further saith that to ordaine it so now certè reprehendi nec potest nec debet it neyther can nor ought surely to bee reprehended And his reason is this for that it hath beene an order that one should bee so chosen to haue such a permanent preheminece in the Church euer since Saint Markes time Nay he is come to this that he is content to yeald in effect that the institution of an Archbishop is agreable to the word of God vz. ex illa generali et verissima Apostolica regula c. according to that generall true Apostolicall rule which appoynteth that all thinges should bee done orderly in the house of God Est igitur or do c. There is therefore saith hee an order in it selfe and by it selfe prescribed by God but the reason or vse of that order and the manner of it dependeth vppon the circumstances of times places and persons and is as men speake according to Lawes positiue Nowe if these thinges that Beza writteth bee true and that he himselfe peraduenture could bee well inough pleased to enioye such an office if the sayde circumstances of time and place might serue his turne to obtaine it then we perceaue that such additions of titles and preheminence so he and his fellowes may haue them do make no such alteration of the essence of the ministerie as with vs is pretended There is great barking against the church of England for that by Act of parliament some partes of the Canon Law are retained and to bee vsed by our Bishops for the better gouernment of the Church insomuch as the very name of the Canon law is become odious the commō sort of simple men of the factious crue verily supposing that the name of such a law rule or institution is popish vnlawfull and diuelish and therfore they crie out crucifie it crucifie it awaie with it wee will not be ruled by it we will none of it As though they shoúld saye we are lawlesse men for rules and orders we detest them whatsoeuer seemeth good in our own eyes that we will doe at the least if we euer yeald our obediēce to any churchlaw it shall bee surelie of our own making sie vppon all former Councels sie vppon all those decisions which the auncient fathers made sie vpon all old and auncient constitutions And thus in effect they write speake in their libels and ordinarie table-talke whereas notwithstanding if there be anie thing in the Canon-law that will serue their purposes they can be contēt to steale it thence to take to themselues thereby the commendation which is due to the true authors fathers of it Cartwright his fraternitie in their essentiall draught of discipline haue drawen more then seuen partes of eight of it out of the Canon-lawe and auncient constitutions Viretus perceiuing but too late what hindrance grew to the platforme of their new discipline by the vtter abolishing of the Canon-law at once and as it were in a furie which he supposed did wold still haue bridled princes if it had been retained and still in force sheweth his dislike of such rashnes in these wordes They thought it a goodly reformation in the Church to abolish all the Canons decrees with the good statutes which the auncient fathers and Doctors hadde ordayned to mayntaine the good discipline in the church The chiefe point indeed that grieued Viretus as there it appeareth at large was this because Princes by that meanes had drawen their necks frō vnder the yoke of discipline A matter so much misliked by them as that he is flatte of opinion that it had beene better for the Church to haue kept the old Pope still then by abrogating of the Canon law and in giuing to Princes so great authoritie in causes ecclesiasticall so to haue subiected her selfe to a new kind of papacie
euerie king prince being as he saith a new Pope by that meanes much worse then the olde So that hereby you see what is the drift of our factious cōsistorians in laboring to make the name of the Canō law odious You may not think that they differ in substance frō their M. Viretus but they are growē more crafty The matter that pincheth thē is this that in the acts of Parliament which are in force there is euer a Prouiso that nothing therof shal be in force which is contrary to the laws of this Realme or to the prerogatiue roiall of the prince If euer anie K. in England should be so far seduced as that he would yeald to establish their counterfeit elderships in this Realme with all the royall authoritie which they challenge of right to belong vnto thē changing the two former prouisoes should enact it that all the canō-law shold be in force sauing so much as should bee contrary to the orders prerogatiue of their elderships If I shold then be aliue as I trust I shall not I durst before hand hazard a great wager vpon it that they would most readily with a great applause receiue it almost worship it For as I said you may not imagine but that Viretus hath disclosed their verie hartes You know there is in euery church for the most part a distinctiō of places betwixt the cleargie the laity We terme one place the chauncell the other the bodie of the church which manner of distinctiō doth greatly offend the tender consciences forsooth of the purer sorte of our reformers Insomuch as M. Gilby a chiefe mā in his time amongst thē doth tearme the Quire a cage reckoneth that separatiō of the ministers from the congregation one of the hundred points of popery which hee affirmeth do yet remaine in the church of England Howbeit admit but of their elderships into euery parish thē you haue thē who will proue it out of the word of God that there ought to be such a separation of their Aldermen euery one of thē though he be but a Cobler from the rest of the Idiots that is all the other parishioners of what state soeuer Hic or do in ecclesia seruetur c. Let this order be obserued in the church saith Danaeus he sendeth vs the rule frō Geneua that these who do beare any office in the church distinguātur et separentur a reliquo populo may be distinguished separated frō the rest of the people c. It a fieri decorū est et vtile For it is decēt profitable that it should be so The Bishop he meaneth euery minister must stand or sit eminente loco alofte c. and let the elders sit by him tum vt populo appareant that the people may beholde them tum vt ministri concionantis doctrinam facilius intelligant et obseruent and that they maye the more easily heare the doctrine of the Minister preaching and the better marke it For of likelihood they are to be the preachers Censors You wil saie peraduenture wher there is some L. Maior some Councellor of state or some other great Magistrate Nay the King himselfe for he must bee of some parish where shall he or anie of them sit That is wiselie prouided for I warrant you For how should it otherwise be seeing the Prouiso commeth from Geneua Magistratus pius c. Let the godly Magistrate who is an honorable member of the Church sit in an honourable and perspicuous place where the Church may neither seeme to fauoure the arrogancy and pride of men nor the contempte of Magistrates And great discretion therein surely If the Magistrate should sit too high it would make him proude if too low it would bring him into contempt Ergo modus in loco illi concedendo seruetur c therefore let a mean be kept in appointing of a place vnto him Knight Lorde Earle Duke King or Emperour the holie Discipline respecteth no mens persons that he may both vnderstand he is preferred before the rest and yet withall that he hath no dominion ouer the word of God In deede excesse in anie thing is nought Sedeat itaque inferiori subsellio let him therfore sit in a lower seat then the preacher of the word of God and the Prophet that he may both see and acknowledge himselfe to be subiect to the threats of the word The parson or Bishop of euerie parish with his Artizan Elders must sitte in the highest place that the people may feede themselues with the sight of them the ciuile Magistrates of what degree soeuer must content themselues with inferior roomes and the rest of the people are to sit super mattas sedilia inferiora vppon pesses and little lowe formes I am perswaded it would greatlie trouble the subiects of England to see such a Metamorphosis in her Maiesties Chappell But see what a notable thing Discipline is and how the Ministers of Geneua can plaie the Herralds in marshalling of euerie state into their due places according to their callings If these men were then in England and should suruey our Quiers I suppose nothing would offend them but that that they are too low The place where the Roode-loft was would bee thought peraduenture more sutable for their Elders Indeed there the people might best behold them Lastlie because I will end this Chapter if Cartwright can get but one Scholiaste that doth in shew make for anie thing he liketh it is notable to see what reuill hee maketh with it And in like sort Maister Beza when the Fathers do fit him as in some points they doe against Erastus then these manner of phrases are common Rectè obseruauit Augustinus Augustine wel obserued it c. Againe an vero Chrys. c. what doe you thinke that Chrysostome and all the old Churches not one excepted saw not this Againe Hic te obtestamur frater c. we do here besech you brother that you would wel consider in whose behalfe and against whom you dispute cum rem ipsam ab vsu non distinguas when you distinguish not the thing it selfe from the abuse of it Againe Haec Chrysostomus quae tibi satisfacere rectè debent These thinges Chrysostome affirmeth which ought to satisfie you fully Again Nunquam aliter fuit hic locus in Ecclesia explicatus This place was neuer otherwise expounded in the Church And againe A temporibus Apostolorum ad haec vsque secula nunquam illa caruerunt Ecclesiae From the Apostles times euen vnto the age wherein we liue the Church did neuer want autoritie of Excommunication And as at times they are content to accept of the Fathers so will they also vpon the like occasion allow of generall Councells Whereas certaine persons in Transiluania beganne to reuiue diuerse old Heresies about the person of Christ Maister Beza writeth in this sorte An non in