appear to a Warrant or for other contempt at Council-Table before himself did it but he offered to prove That formerly Soldiers were sent against Rebels and that after they were declared to be Rebels and that justly too and he proved an use and custom to force men to pay Contribution-money due to the King but that was by consent of the people who granted a Contribution of 20000 l. a year for increase of the Kings Revenue and that it might not be upon Record in the Exchequer and so claimed as due in time to come they consented that Soldiers should be laid upon them that refused it and the word Consent is within the Statute of 18 H. 6. Again did he prove all manner of Rents were levied by Soldiers no such thing but such Rents as were designed for the payment of the Army he proved by Sir Arthur Terringham the laying of Soldiers once for the payment of a fum of Money but Sir Arthur being demanded whether it were the King's Rents or comprehended within the same general Rule he could make no answer thereunto Your Lordships remember he says He did not know it and therefore probably it was the Kings Rents and doubtless it was so But if he had produced Precedents it could not be an authority for Treason that if people did not appear to his Orders he must levy War against the Kings Subjects and for his extenuation of the War that the same was of no great danger there being not above five or six Soldiers laid at a time I would to God the people oppressed by it had cause to undervalue it I am sure four or six Musquetiers are as strong to oppress a man as four thousand so the matter of Fact is strongly and expresly proved Besides though there came not above four or five to a house yet the authority given to the Sergeant was general he might have brought more if he had listed and in truth he brought as many as the Estate of the party would maintain And as to the not producing of the Warrant I have already answered it If it were in the case of a Deed wherein men call for witnesses it were something but God forbid that the Treason should be gone and the Traitor not questionable if his Warrant can be once put out of the way The next Article which is laid to his charge is For issuing out a Proclamation and Warrant of restraint to inhibit the Kings Subjects to come to the Fountain their Sovereign to deliver their complaints of their wrongs and oppressions Your Lordships have heard how he hath exercised his jurisdiction and now he raises a battery to secure and make it safe If he do wrong perhaps the complaint may come to the Gracious Ears of a King who is ready to give relief and therefore he must stop these cries and prevent these means that he may go on without interruption and to that end he makes Propositions here That the Kings Subjects in Ireland should not come over to make complaint against Ministers of State before an address first made to himself It is true he makes a fair pretence and shew for it and had just cause of approbation if he intended what he pretended But as soon as he came into Ireland what use made he of it he ingrosses the proceedings of almost all the Courts of Justice into his own hands and so pre-possesses the King by a colourable proposition and prevents their coming over before they had made their address to himself and then he becomes the wrong doer and issues Proclamations for the hindring of the King's Subjects to seek redress without his leave which is as great a proof of his design and as great an injury to the people governed under a Gracious Prince as a heart can conceive And what his intention was in exhibiting this Proposition it will appear in the sentence of a poor man one David who was censured and most heavily Fined for coming over into England to prosecute complaint against my Lord of Strafford It is true that this was not the cause expressed but this was the truth of the matter Your Lordships remember a clause in the Order at Council-Board whereby is set forth the cause wherefore the party is not sentenced which I never saw in an order before nor should now but that my Lord foresaw there was danger in it that he might be charged in this place for the fact and therefore puts in negatively why the party was not censured Clausula inconsulta inducit suspitionem And how defends he this Article he sayes his predecessors issued Proclamations to hinder the Kings Subjects from going over lest they should joyn with O-Neal and Tirconnell beyond Sea and so it might be dangerous to the State but because they may joyn with Foreigners shall they therefore not come to the King to make just complaint What this argument is I refer to your Lordships judgments Then he pretends a former precedent affirming that the like instructions were given to my Lord of Faulkland but was there any that none should come to their Sovereign to make their just appeal if injured Surely there was never any such Instruction before and I hope never will be again The next Article is the Nineteenth and now when he had so plentifully exercised his Tyranny over the Lives the Liberty and the Estates of the King's Subjects A man would think he could go no further But see a Tyranny exercised beyond that and that is over the Consciences of men hitherto he dealt with the outward man and now he offers violence to the inward man and imposes an Oath upon the Kings Subjects and so exerciseth a Tyranny over the Consciences of men And setting aside the matter of the Oath if he hath authority and power to impose such an Oath as he shall frame he may by the same power impose any Oath to compell Consciences He pretends a Warrant from His Majesty to do it but the Kings Ministers are to serve the King according to Law and I dare be bold to say and we have good reason to thank God for it if any of the Kings Ministers tell him that any Command he gives is against Law there is no doubt but in his Goodness and Piety he will withdraw his Command and not enforce execution and therefore if there were an error the King is free and the Ministers to be justly charged with it But there was no Command from the King to compel and enforce them to take the Oath by the power of the Star-Chamber to commit them to prison to impose heavy Fines and tyrannize over them all which he did in the Case of Steward And now one would have thought he had acted his part when he had acted as much as lay in his own power and yet he goes beyond this he was not content to corrupt all the streams which was not a diverting of the course as he spoke in his answer for he not only
and acknowledged by my Lord of Corke to be Sir Paul Davis's hand Upon reading whereof my Lord of Strafford observed That it appears to be a church-Church-Cause That the Order was just and that the Clause for the Plaintiffs giving of Security to answer the mean Profits which my Lord of Corke said was struck out of the Order and for my Lord of Corke's liberty to bring his Action at Law only he was limited to prosecute it within a year Mr. Leake was produced by my Lord of Strafford and being asked what Authority he hath known the Council-Board in Ireland to exercise both before my Lord of Strafford's coming thither and since in Causes of the Church and Plantation and concerning Contempts to Proclamations and Acts of State and what Countryman he is He Answered That his name is Leake of Leake in the County of Nottingham where he said his Family hath continued 400 years That it is 14 years since he went into Ireland and before this Lords-Deputies time and before that time he did not observe any restraint from Injunctions on the Council-Board till the Instructions published and they did stay them That they proceeded by Injunction Process Bill Answer Examination and other Courses as in the Chancery of England And since the same course hath been held And my Lord of Strafford hath had in the Castle-Chamber divers Causes of Law argued before him concerning the Church wherein one Chadwick and divers others were convented thirty times when he the Examinant was there and heard them twenty he is sure but he thinks thirty But my Lord of Strafford did forbear to give Sentence till he heard these Causes argued That 14 years he hath been very well versed in that Kingdom that he hath known Injunctions have gone out from thence to stay Proceedings in Causes where they have Power of Jurisdiction that he hath known my Lord Chancellor Loftus that was to grant an Injunction without Bill and before any Complaint depended before him and that he himself had the Injunction granted Being asked about the time of his going into Ireland He said he went betwixt 1627. and 1628. Whence observe that the Witness hath made an Observation of the Instructions five years before he came into Ireland Being asked some other questions touching the occasion of his going into Ireland and how he came to take notice of the Proceedings there He Answered He hath been there at several times to pursue some Tenants of his that fled into Ireland and by reason of the Suits and Petitions he prosecuted in his own Right he had occasion to enquire after Proceedings there having been there for the most part of 14 years To the Statute of 28 H. 6. which the Commons have pressed as a Rule for the reâ—ing of Causes to their proper Courts and to annihilate all these Proceedings before the Deputy and Council and before the Deputy alone in his particular Jurisdiction in the nature of a Court of Requests in England I reserve my self to have my Council give satisfaction therein Only desire your Lordships to observe the last Clause saving the King's Prerogative These Proceedings are not against Magna Charta they being according to the Laws and Customs of the Land though it be not the Custom of England And if he hath been an Innovator it hath been to conform Ireland by all ways he could in Religion and Laws to the better and more excellent Pattern of England To the Objection made against Mr. Gwyn he is altogether unknown to me only was recommended to me and here is a Certificate that Gwyn is Master of Arts but that was not read nor insisted on To the matter of words Charged upon him He Answered That words without Fact can be no matter of Treason though of a higher nature then these That words are to be charged within a limited time 1 E. 6. Ca. 12. whereby it is provided That none shall be Impeached concerning Treason for words only if the party being within the Realm be not accused within thirty days If out of the Realm within six months c. Which Proviso his Lordship read and reserved to his Council farther to apply it For the words spoken to my Lord of Corke That neither Law nor Lawyers should dispute my Orders I conceive I might justifie the speaking of them if the Orders and Acts of State be justly warrantable and honourably made Yet it is improbable I should speak the words when the Order refers it self to Law If they were spoken they are at the highest indiscreet and foolish and it is a heavy thing to punish me for not being wiser than God Almighty hath made me For the last words That I would make the said Earl and all Ireland know That so long as I had Government there An Act of State made or to be made should be as binding as an Act of Parliament I observe my Lord of Corke's quick memory that could swear them roundly without missing a letter or sillable as they are laid in the Charge That these words are only in the Charge and so only to be answered to And for Answer I say That in case of an Act done they may be brought collaterally as an inducement to prove the intention But the Act must be proved before they can touch me as of Treason My Lord of Corke is a single Witness and by a Proviso 1 E. 6 Ca. 12. no person after the first of February then following is to be Arraigned c. of Treason c. for any words to be spoken after the said first of February unless the Offendor be accused by two sufficient Witnesses or should without violence confess them To the words spoken of by the other Witnesses being the same in effect I am not to answer being extrajudicially proved and spoken in other places and times than I am Charged withall Yet I think they might be fairly interpreted For if an Act of State be not made against an Act of Parliament or a Fundamental Law of the Land but consistent with it and made by way of provision for remedying some present Mischief in the Common-wealth till the Parliament may provide Redress for it They are as binding during the time they are in force as an Act of Parliament though I confess the Comparison is not good because they be made according to Law and Justice according to the Fundamental Laws of the Land wherein the Prerogative of the Crown hath a part as well as the Property of the Subject For if the Propriety of the Subject as it is and God forbid but it should continue be the second undoubtedly the Prerogative of the Crown is the first Table of that Fundamental Law and hath something more imprinted upon it For if it hath a divinity imprinted upon it it is God's Annointed It is he that gives the Powers And Kings are as Gods on Earth higher Prerogatives than can be said or found to be spoken of the Propriety or Liberty of
Pattern from my Lord Faulkland my Lord Grandison and my Lord Chichester and he did it by the Power he had the Honour to hold under His Majesty as General That yet he used them so sparingly that neither in that time nor in the Government of Munster in which he had as large Authority as ever any man had he never did condemn a man to death in peaceable times and that the Authority hath been good That Martial-Law is so frequent and ordinary in Ireland that it is not to be denied and so little offensive there that the Common Law takes no exception at it That he hath lived to see three or four Parliaments there and they never complained of it And to Govern an Army without Martial-Law is impossible for occasions in an Army rise on a suddain and something must be done on a suddain for example-sake to others That Martial-Law was certainly in Ireland ever since he remembers and long before but it hath been used so sparingly that in the time of Peace for his part he did never know any executed in his time Being asked on the Lord Strafford's Motion Whether he hath known Sir Charles Coote as Provost-Martial of Conaught and Sir Iohn Bower Provost-Marshall of Leimster in time of Peace execute divers Persons Rebels and others by Martial-Law He Answered For Sir Charles Coote he can very well answer though he had Authority yet it is out of his memory that he ever executed any And for Sir Iohn Bower he dwelleth remote from him that the said Sir Iohn Bower hath Authority and so have many other Presidents Marshalls of the Army Provost-Marshalls of every Province and upon great Reasons for it for though they be Inferior men yet the intent of their Commission is but to prosecute those men that cannot be had into the Law that is Rebels and Fugitives and those men he hath heard have been hanged Whence my Lord of Strafford inferred That he had done nothing de Novo That Provost-Marshalls have been always appointed and executed those Places under the General for the time being The Committee admitted that there be four Provost-Marshalls but deny that they exercise Marshall-Law That those Provost-Marshalls have executed divers men to death by Marshall-Law Rebels and Traytors I desire to produce an Order of my Lord of Faulkland's taken from his Book of Entries but being not proved nor written with my Lord Faulkland's own hand the reading of it was not admitted but left to their Lordships Consideration To prove the Practise of the Provost-Marshalls Sir Adam Loftus being asked concerning the Provost-Marshalls executing of Marshall-Law before my Lord of Strafford's time and on what men He Answered That it is most apparent in all times since he can remember Martial-Law hath been executed that 's undoubted But it was on Rebels and Out-Laws and he hath known no other but such executed by Martial-Law Lord Robert Dillon being asked to the same purpose Answered He hath heard the Provost-Marshals have taken and hanged men by Martial-Law in time of Peace since the beginning of King Iames his Reign that of Rebels and Out-Laws there is no question My Lord of Strafford desired to compare his Orders with those of my Lord of Wilmotts And they were compared accordingly in divers Articles His Lordship produced a Copy of His Majesties Letter attested to be a true Copy by Charles Gibson Which was read being the Letter recited in the Sentence of my Lord Mountnorris I observe That the Sentence of my Lord Mountnorris takes notice that the Army was part of it in motion and divers Companies daily exercised and that my self was for the most part there present which shews the truth of my Answer to that Point in part To free my self from the said Sentence I desire a Letter from my self and Council of War to Secretary Cook 13. December immediately after the Sentence may be read to shew that I was a Suitor to the King in my Lord Mountnorris's behalf But being after the Sentence and written by himself and the Council of War for extenuating of the Fact the reading of it was over-ruled I conceive my Lord Renula and Lord Dillon made it appear that I declined giving Judgment in the Sentence But for further proof Sir Robert Farrer was asked Whether my Lord of Strafford did not declare he would be no Judge nor give Opinion in that Cause and whether he sate bare He Answered That he was present at the Sentence and heard my Lord of Strafford say that he would give no Judgment nor have to do with the business concerning my Lord Mountnorris and he sate a good time with his hat off Being asked on one of the Committees motion touching his pressing of both the Articles He said He acknowledged my Lord did require Judgment on both Articles and yet sate silent at the time they were upon the Sentence Being asked Whether my Lord of Strafford did not desire them to regard him no more than an ordinary Officer and do no otherwise than in reason and judgment they should think fit He Answered My Lord of Strafford said these very words That they should not look upon him but go to the Cause according to their Opinion directly And being asked Whether my Lord Mountnorris was a Captain of the Army He Answered Yes and the Council did admit it Sir George Wentworth being asked to the same purpose as Sir Robert Farrer He Answered He was present at the Sentence and heard my Lord of Stafford say publickly He did not sit there as a Judge and that he would give no Vote in it Being asked Whether my Lord of Stafford did not tell Sir George Wentworth that he should give no Vote in it because he was his Lordships Brother He Answered Yes and he gave no Judgment upon that reason that my Lord of Strafford did publickly bid them all look on him as a private man and sate by as a Suitor not as a Judge and put off his hat at the beginning to speak and sate uncovered all the while till Sentence was pronounced To shew that my Lord Mountnorris was enlarged by me presently after I here produce the Warrant Dated 18. December though indeed he was released 15. December The denial of my Lord Mountnorris to examine Witnesses was by my Lord Cromwell Sir Charles Coote Sir Iohn Burlacy not by me I sitting by as a private party For this I refer to my Lord Mountnorris's own Deposition and my Lord Renula's To prove it further Sir Robert Farrer was asked touching the denying of further time and Council He Answered He cannot tell who denied him he remembers my Lord Cromwell spake something but knows not whether to that effect Sir Robert Farrer being asked on one of the Managers Motion Whether before their coming together they did know the occasion of their meeting He Answered He did not he was warned to attend and did not know the business till he came thither I did never
of an Arbitrary Power of Jurisdiction in a case of Land without any former President wherein if he be justifiable he may as well riding on the High-way determine any mans Estate and added That if my Lord of Strafford insist on this they shall prove it not only in this but in twenty more of this condition on the Reply My Lord of Strafford desiring they might bring their Proofs at once The Manager Answered That they should prove an Act of the same Nature but of a higher strain concerning a Peer of the Realm for he chased such Lions But my Lord of Strafford desiring they might be kept to that within the Charge His Lordship began his Defence in substance as followeth I confess I am Charged with Treason by the Honourable House of Commons and that is my greatest grief for if it were not an Arrow sent out of that Quiver it would not be so heavy as it is but as it comes from them it pierces my heart through not with Guilt yet with Grief that in my Grey hairs I should be mis-understood by the Companions of my Youth with whom I have formerly spent so much time If the Decree be just as it is most just I hope it will go very far in the Case That whereas it is said it was against a Peer Justice excepts not persons and I know no Priviledge Peers have in point of possession of Land above common persons The Act of Parliament read the other day against which it is supposed to be made I conceive it to be the Statute in H. 6. time and desire your Lordships to remember that by the last words the King's Prerogative is saved I have done nothing contrary to the Instructions in King Iames his time nor the Proclamation nor any thing but according to the Power of former Deputies I acknowledge my Answer is mistaken in saying the Cause depended formerly in the Chancery which was not out of cunning but a meer failing of memory I desire my Commission may be read whereby it will appear I had Power to do that for which I am now questioned The Commission was read whereby he had Authority to proceed Secundum consuetudines terrae c. From whence he observed That having so great a Power the receiving of a Petition and giving Relief to a poor body should not be so great a fault being at the most but the exceeding of a Jurisdiction but by no Construction can be made Treason That yet this is no exceeding of a Jurisdiction but was a Power always in the Deputies before his time and warranted To prove it he produced the printed Instructions whereby the Deputy and Council-Table are forbid to meddle with common businesses within Cognizance of ordinary Courts nor alter possession of Land nor make private Orders or Hearings nor make Injunctions for staying Suits in any Civil Cause Which shews that that course was in practise before the Instructions took it away viz. to alter Possessions to grant Injunctions c. To prove by Witnesses that this Power was always exercised by the Deputy in the nature of a Court of Requests in England He offered my Lord Primate of Armagh his Deposition being taken by reason of his sickness by vertue of an Order of their Lordships but for that the Commons had liberty by that Order to cross-examine and yet had no notice thereof or of the Depositions so taken the using of these Depositions was waved after much debate till the next day in the mean time the Commons may cross-examine Henry Dillon asked Whether Petitions have been usually preferred to the Deputies and in how many Governors time he hath known it to be so That these Paper-Petitions have been preferred He Answered His Father had a Lease during his own life and his Wives and the longer liver of them and fifteen years after to his Executors and Administrators which he the said Henry Dillon being come to full age enquired into and looking upon his Fathers Evidences he found a business there depending between Sir Patrick Plaintiff and his Father Defendant before my Lord Chichester in the time of his Government and he found several Orders under my Lord Chichesters Hand in that Cause that he being Executor to Maurice Fitzgerard and having occasion to peruse his Writings to see what Debts were due to him he found among them several Orders of my Lord Grandison's time one Petition of Fitzgerard as well for Debts as for Land That in the time of my Lord Faulkland he observed and hath seen several Orders made by his Lordship and one made on behalf of his Sister Mary Dillon for a Portion paid by his Father and he recovered the portion and received the Money That in the time of my Lord of Corke and Lord of Elyes being Governors there was a Petition preferred against him by my Lord of Longford for a Horse taken by him the said Henry Dillon as Sheriff of the County of Longford pretending it to be a stray and belonging to His Majesty and triable as he conceived in the Exchequer and that he did appear but my Lord of Longford died before Examination Being asked Whether the Causes were before the Deputy alone or the Deputy and Council He Answered That in the time of my Lord Chichester he knows not whether they were before the Deputy alone but he found only my Lord Chichester's Hand to the Orders In my Lord Grandison's time he saw his Hand only but where the Causes depended he knows not But that in my Lord Faulkland's time was only by my Lord-Deputy That of my Lord Corkes and Lord of Elyes he remembers not whether it was before their Lordships and the Council but the way he was called to Answer was by Pursevant before he had notice of the Suit Being asked Whether Examinations were taken He Answered That in the Case of his Sister he conceives there were Examinations taken upon Oath And that in the Cause before my Lord of Corke and Lord of Ely the Attachment was under the Hands of the two Lords Justices alone Being asked on the Managers motion Whether he hath any of those Orders to shew He Answered He knows not whether those in my Lord Chichester's time were delivered to my Lord Dun on composing the Difference or in his Custody Robert Lord Dillon was asked What he heard my Lord Grandison say in maintenance of this Judicature by my Lord-Deputy alone He Answered That he heard my Lord Grandison himself say nothing of it but he heard by others that he pretended to it as a Judicature belōnging to the Sword Being asked what he hath known of the practice of this Court before the Lord Deputy alone before how many Deputies and upon what occasions He Answered That he hath seen divers Orders of Deputies or Petitions singly signed by themselves and no other hand but the Deputies Being asked in how many Deputies times He Answered That he hath seen of my Lord Faulklands
That we were sent for by my Lord Deputy Wainsford and he put us as we conceived them several catching Questions as If they had not my Lord Deputies Licence and the Boards Whether they would repair to England or no We Answered That in obedience to the House of Commons we did intend to repair to England No sayes my Lord Deputy Answer me Catagorically Would you go or no If we would Command you not to go to this we Answered No being between two Jurisdictions both from His Majesty for we had a Command from the House of Commons and a Counter-Command from His Majesty and we were denied Licence and a restraint of Ships for that cause they conceived to restrain them Being asked whether the Deputy did know the House of Commons had ordered them to come over and yet refused He answered the Lord Deputy did know it it was apparently known to all the Kingdom Mr. Fitz-gerard being examined to the same points as Sir Robert Linch He Answered That after the the Session of Parliament 1 Octob. last and the House of Commons had travelled till the 6 Nov. in the affairs of the Kingdom the grand Committee had heard and discussed many grievances general and particular and voted them to the House That about the beginning of Nov. the House entred into consideration of those grievances and drew up a Petition of Remonstrances to be presented to the Lord Deputy which was voted in the House of Commons 7 Nov. 9 Nov. the whole House attended with the Speaker and the Speaker read it publiquely before him The grievances were of that nature that they did Humbly and of Right as he remembers petition for redress of those grievances that the House conceiving the Parliament would be Prorogued or Dissolved before Redress was given they entred into consideration of a course to present it to His Majesty And 11 Nov. made an Order that the Committee should be appointed to repair to England with a Caution That if Redress should not be had before Dissolution or Prorogation of the Parliament that Committee should not proceed 12 Nov. it was Prorogued without Redress that the next day after Prorogation the Committee was summoned to attend at the Board and there was interrogated severally on a question as far as he can remember viz. Of their intention to go into England whether they would aske leave to go into England and admitting my Lord Deputy should command them not to goe till His Majesties pleasure was known whether they would go To all they were severally to answer and Catagorically this was my Lord Deputies word after Answer given they were ordered to withdraw and being called in again it was made known by the Lord Deputy Wainsford That he and the Lords had considered the whole matter and bade them take notice there was a Proclamation restraining all the Subjects of Ireland to make repair to England till application was made to the Deputy That he engaged them in Allegiance not to depart till he the Lord Deputy had known His Majesties pleasure whether they should goe or no which he would labour to know speedily The next thing Mr. Palmer offered was the Irish Remonstrance which was read To the Right Honourable the Lord Deputy The humble and just Remonstrance of the Knights Citizens and Burgesses in Parliament THe Petitioners do conceive great and strong fears of a Proclamation published in this Kingdom Anno 1635. Prohibiting men of Quality or Estate to depart this Kingdom without the Lord Deputies Licence whereby the Subjects of this Kingdom are hindred and interrupted from free access to His said Majesty and Privy Council of England to obtain remedies against their just grievances as their Ancestors have had since the Reign of H. 2. and great Fees exacted for the said Licences And so Mr. Palmer summed up the Evidence That by the Proposition made before my Lord Deputies going over it appeared what was intended That no complaints of oppression should be made without address First to the Deputy and what followed declares plainly the execution of it That notwithstanding the injustice and oppression done complaints could not be received By the former Article their Lordships have heard what he did there and the great causes of complaint After in time is the Proclamation their Lordships see the use made of it that those who had made complaints against my Lord himself and his Orders were refused to have Licence some that adventured to come without Licence were Fined and Imprisoned to their utter ruine The whole Parliament when the Order was well known were refused to have Licence it is true not by my Lord of Strafford but the Deputy who coloured his denial from these Acts of my Lord of Strafford what fears they had their Lordships may apprehend by the Remonstrance My Lord of Strafford assumed a great power to himself all Addresses being first made to him and the Subject thereby excluded from His Majesty till such address was made so that his Lordship is not Par negotio but Supra above all the authority committed to him not an Accessary but Principal not in the nature of a Subject but Domini and so he expected his Lordships Answer My Lord of Strafford after a little time of recollecting himself began his Defence in substance as followeth That he should only apply himself to the things in charge as near as he could and give the fairest Answer he could where by the way he alledged That he might very justifiably say he had never in his life other thoughts or intentions before his going into Ireland or during his abode there but justly and faithfully in the service of His Majesty and the Kingdom nor did he ever desire or intend any thing so much as to introduce the English Laws and Government there And whereas he is charged with a subversion of the fundamental Laws he may say he thinks with Truth and Modesty that the Laws had never so free a passage that never any Deputy gave less interruption to the proceedings of the Law than it had during all his time That it did not appear by all that hath been said that there was any stay of legal proceedings for all the Causes spoken of him came originally and primarily before they depended in any other Court and that he never hindred but gave all furtherance to the passage of the Common-Law and therefore if their Lordships find as they cannot but expect from him much Error and mistakes he besought them out of their Goodness and Nobleness to apply it rather to his Infirmity and Weakness than to any habit of ill he had got as he trusts he should make appear to their Lordships The Charge is to have procured with an intent of oppression a stop of all complaints of Injustice that none might be received in England unless it appeared That the party did make his address to him To prove this the Gentlemen have read a Proposition of his made
there is nothing at all of it that I am to Answer it being wholly done by the Order of Chancery and I having no more to do with it then any man that hears it the Matter that stayes with me in this Article is the alleadged Warrant to Mr. Savill Sergeant at Armes and the Execution of it for that I shall humbly beseech your Lordships I may mind you with all humility that that Warrant is not shewed and I do think that my Lords the Judges do in the Tryals before them observe that Deeds are to prove themselves in ordinary Tryals betwixt Men and Men Now how much more in a Tryal for life and which is more than that though my Misfortune will have me to own it in the Tryal of a Peer The Witnesses my Lords say They have seen such a Warrant But no Witnesse sayes he knowes it and will Swear it to be my Hand and Seal or that I set my Hand or Seal to it for it may be Counterfeited for any thing they know For Mr. Savill upon Oath I thought under Favour he ought not to be admitted against me for he Swears directly to justifie himself for if there be no such Warrant he is answerable for the Fact not I. But my Lords admit there were such a Warrant I humbly conceive I gave your Lordships a very clear and full Answer to it I shewed you and proved it as I conceive that the Sessing of Soldiers hath been a Coercive means used in Ireland alwayes to enforce obedience to the Kings Authority I proved it to have been used to fetch in the Kings Rents of all kinds Contributions Compositions and Exchequer Rents I proved it to have been used to bring in Offenders and Rebels and as my Lord Ranalagh deposes for any Unjustifiable Act. Sir Arthur Terringham for a small Debt which appears not to be the Kings Debt My Lords nothing at all is proved against it but Negatively the Witnesses say they did not know such a thing they had not heard the like and I think none of your Lordships had before this Cause and yet that thing might be too And my Lords I beseech your Lordships How should it be not Treason to Assess Soldiers for the Kings Debts and yet the Assessing of Soldiers on the Contempt of the Kings Authority should be Treason for certainly the Kings Authority is of far more Dignity and more respect is to be had to it then the getting of a few poor Debts and why it should be Treason in one Case and not in another methinks it is very strange My Lords in the next place I conceive that not in any Construction this can be said to be a Levying of War against the King and His People being but the Imployment of two or three Soldiers to procure obedience to His Majesties Government because as I conceive likewise I had Commission to make War as I saw Cause for punishing the Rebels and securing the Publick Peace and therefore How can I be charged with that I have power to do The worst that can be made of it is an absurd execution of a Power but to make it Treason when I had Commission and Liberty so to do methinks that is very hard And it was no absurd execution of a Power under favour neither when I had the Precedent of all the former Deputies and Lieutenants in the Case My Lords it was never Complained of all the while I was there for ought appears to your Lordships so that it seems there was no great Innovation nor Inconvenience for if there were I should have heard of it But the Statute 11 E. 1. ca. 7. sets a penalty upon any Subject that shall Assess without the Deputies Authority Now I do most humbly beseech your Lordships that you would be pleased to remember that and let me know how it should be but Penal in a Common person to do it and yet Treason in a Deputy My Lords I shall likewise humbly mind your Lordships for the Statute or rather two Statutes as I take it whereby I conceive this Statute that made a Treason in Ireland was repealed But howsoever the practice in all time hath gone quite contrary to that Statute and the best Interpretation of Law is the Practice of Law and therefore the Practice having been otherwise it is an Argument very strong and prevalent that the Deputy as Chief Governor was never intended to be Concluded within that Act nor never to be brought in by General Words onely And that this should be a Levying of War against the King within the Statute of 25 E. 3. in England surely I conceive it cannot be for the Burning of Towns the Taking of Forts Killing and Slaying that I conceive to be a Levying of War but this is a strange Levying of War with two or three Soldiers to rest in Peace and Quietness eating on Contemners onely and not Killing and Slaying and all to procure Obedience to the King not in Disobedience to His Command If to lie upon them and eate be High-Treason in this Case What shall become of a great Company of good Fellowes that at this time eate at the Charge of the Country No my Lords This in the Case of a private Man had been but a Forcible Entry or a Ryot at the most if a man had done the same thing Mr. Savil did of his own Authority without the Deputy it had been but a Force and Ryot and How shall this be in my Case High Treason The next Charge in that Case is concerning a Warrant to one Piggot another Sergeant at Armes and the great and crying Miscarriages and Misimployments of such a War if there had been any it was when I as your Lordships may please to remember was out of Ireland and that was the Case of Bern a very Foule Misdemeanor as it proved But my Lords I being out of the Kingdom and no such Warrant shown I conceive I am absolutely dismissed as unto that and have nothing to Answer for it there was nothing done while I was in the Kingdom there is no Warrant of mine shown therefore I conceive I stand clear of that likewise But admit there were such a Warrant the Answer goes to that as to the test and certainly I hope will fully acquit me of this Fifteenth Article as Treason And so I must in humility submit to your Lordships wiser and better Judgments The next Statute Treason is an Intendment or Design or what you will have it for bringing over the Irish Army into this Kingdom to reduce it or to do I know not what nor I think no body else for there is no such thing But my Lords for proofe in this Case you have two offered there and no more under favour at all the first proof is the Fears and Doubts of my Lord Ranalaugh that tells you he Fears such a thing and Doubts such a thing My Lords if Fears and Doubts may be sufficient to Condemn me for Treason
not tryable by the Peers of Ireland so that if he be not tryable here he is tryable no where My Lords In case there be a Treason and a Traitor within the Statute and that he be not tryable here for it in the ordinary way of Judicature if that jurisdiction fail this by way of Bill doth not Attainders of Treason in Parliament are as legal as usual by Act of Parliament as by Judgement I have now done with the Statutes 25 Edw. 3. and 18 Hen. 6. My Lord of Strafford hath offended against both the Kingdoms and is guilty of High Treason by the Laws of both My Lords In the fifth place I am come to the Treasons at the Common-Law the endeavouring to subvert the fundamental Laws and Government of the Kingdom and to introduce an Arbitrary and Tyrannical Government In this I shall not at all labour to prove That the endeavouring by Words Counsels and Actions to subvert the Laws is Treason at the Common-Law if there be any Common-Law Treasons at all left nothing is Treason if this be not to make a Kingdom no Kingdom take the Polity and Government away Englands but a piece of Earth wherein so many men have their Commorancy and abode without ranks or distinction of men without property in any thing further than possession no Law to punish the Murthering or robbing one another That of 33 Hen. 8. of introducing the Imperial Law sticks not with your Lordships it was in case of an Appeal to Rome these Appeals in Cases of Marriages and other causes counted Ecclesiastical had been frequent had in most Kings Reigns been tolerated some in times of Popery put a conscience upon them the Statutes had limited the penalty to a Praemunire only neither was that a total subversion only an Appeal from the Ecclesiastical Court here in a single Cause to the Court of Rome and if Treason or not that Case proves not a Treason may be punished as a Felony a Felony as a Trespass if His Majesty so please The greater includes the less in the Case of Praemunire in the Irish Reports that which is there declared to be Treason was proceeded upon only as a Praemunire The things most considerable in this is Whether the Treasons at Common-Law are taken away by the Statute of 25 Edw. 3. which is to speak against both the direct words and scope of that Statute In it there 's this clause That because many other like Cases of Treason might fall out which are not there declared therefore it is enacted That if any such Case come before the Iudges they shall not proceed to Iudgment till the Case be declared in Parliament whether it ought to be adjudged Treason or not These words and the whole scope of that Statute shews that it was not the meaning to take away any Treasons that were so before but only to regulate the jurisdiction and manner of Tryal Those that were single and certain Acts as conspiring the Kings death Levying War Counterfeiting the Money or Great Seal Killing a Judge these are left to the ordinary Courts of Justice The others not depending upon single Acts but upon constructions and necessary inferences they thought it not fit to give the inferior Courts so great a latitude here as too dangerous to the Subject those they restrained to the Parliament This Statute was the great security of the Subjects made with such wisdom as all the succeeding Ages have approved it it hath often passed through the Furnace but like Gold hath left little or nothing The Statute of the First H. 4. cap. 10. is in these words Whereas in the Parliament held the 21 year of Richard the 2. divers pains of Treason were ordained insomuch that no man did know how to behave himself to do say or speak It is accorded that in no time to come any Treason be adjudged otherwise than it was ordained by the Statute of 25th of Edw. 3. It hath been said To what end is this Statute made if it takes not away the Common-Law Treasons remaining after the Statute of the 25th of Edw. 3 Therebe two main things which this Statute doth First it takes away for the future all the Treasons made by any Statute since 25 Edw. 3. to the 1 H. 4. even to that time for in respect that by another Act in that Parliament the Statute of 21 Rich. 2. was repealed it will not be denyed but that this Statute repeals more Treasons than these of the 21 R. 2. It repeals all Statute-Treasons but those in 25 Edw. 3. Secondly It not only takes away the Statute-Treasons but likewise the declared Treasons in Parliament after the 25th of Edw. 3. as to the future after Declaration in Parliament the inferior Courts might judge these Treasons for the Declaration of a Treason in Parliament after it was made was sent to the inferior Courts that toties quotîes the like Case fell out they might proceed therein the Subject for the future was secured against these so that this Statute was of great use But by the very words of it I shall refer all Treasons to the provision of 25 Edw. 3. it leaves that entire and upon the old bottom The Statute of 1 Queen M. cap. 1. saith That no offences made Treason by any Act of Parliament shall thenceforth be taken or adjudged to be Treason but only such as be declared and expressed to be Treason by the Statute of 25 Edw. 3. Concerning Treason or the Declaration of Treason and no others And further provides That no pains of death penalties or forfeiture in any wise shall ensue for committing any Treason other than such as be in the Statute of 25 Edw. 3. ordained and provided any Act of Parliament or any Declaration or matter to the contrary in any wise notwithstanding By the first of this Statute only offences made Treason by Act of Parliament are taken away the Common-Law-Treasons are no ways touched the words And no others refer still to offences made Treason by Act of Parliament they restrain not to the Treasons only particularly mentioned in the Statute in the 25th Edw. 3. but leave that Statute entire to the Common-Law-Treason as appears by the words immediately foregoing By the Second Part for the peins and forfeitures of Treasons if it intend only the punishment of Treason or if it intend both Treason and Punishment yet all is referred to the Provision and Ordinance of 25 Edw. 3. any Act of Parliament or other Declaration or thing notwithstanding It saith not other then such Penalties or Treasons as are expressed and declared in the Statute of 25 Edw. 3. that might perhaps have restrained it to those that are particularly mentioned no it refers all Treasons to the general Ordination and Provision of that Statute wherein the Common Law Treasons are expresly kept on foot If it be Asked What good this Statute doth if it take not away the Common Law Treasons 1. It takes away all the Treasons made
to this High Court and to testifie in a Case of the highest Nature in case of Treason informed of against Sir George Ratcliff We did conceive it to be no breach of Priviledge of Parliament that he should be sent for and if the House require of us our Opinions concerning the manner of sending for him we shall tell you what we conceive of it Which Report being made It was Resolved upon the Question That Sir George Ratcliff shall be forthwith sent for to answer the Information that is Charged against him here of High Treason Resolved upon the Question That Sir Robert King shall forthwith be sent for hither as a Witness to testifie in case of High Treason Mr. Solicitor likewise offered from the Committee to the Consideration of the House two Orders which were read in haec verba and by Vote Ordered accordingly viz. It is Ordered by this House upon the Question That Sir George Ratcliff being as is informed a Member of the Parliament in Ireland because there is an Information in this House of High Treason against him shall be forthwith sent for and brought hither in safe Custody no Priviledge of Parliament extending to this Case Ordered two Messengers to be sent with these Orders and each Messenger to have Copies of both the Orders It was likewise Offered from the Committee That the Honourable Persons near the Chair would beseech His Majesty that He would be pleased to give such Directions as in His Wisdom He shall think fit for the more Expeditious sending for these Parties Mr. Treasurer delivered this Message to His Majesty Saturday November 14th 1640. Mr. Treasurer after he had read out of a Paper the Message which Yesterday the House desired him to deliver to His Majesty Declared that he had acquainted the King therewith who this morning hath given Order to Mr. Secretary Windebank who deals for the Affairs into Ireland to make instant Dispatch to the Deputy there that all Expedition be done according to the Message Secondly Concerning the three Letters desired by my Lord Mountnorris they were procured by Mr. Secretary Cook who was imployed about the Affairs for Ireland at that time that he is now in the Country in Darbyshire His Majesty will take some time to be informed in this and no time shall be lost and there shall be an Account given Wednesday November 18th 1640. Ordered that no Member of this House shall visit the Earl of Strafford during the time of his Restraint without Licence first obtained from the House Ordered a Message be sent to the Lords to desire them that they would please to appoint a Committee of a very few that in the presence of some of this House might take such Depositions and examine such Witnesses as they should name upon Interrogatories and Questions as shall be presented to them by Order of this House concerning the Earl of Strafford and the Interrogatories Testimonies and Witnesses to be kept private until the Charge be made full and perfect Ordered that Mr. Pym go up with this Message accompanied with so many as shall be pleased to go Then the House fell into Debate concerning those Lords who petitioned the King for a Parliament to be called Whereupon it was Resolved upon the Question That those Lords which were Petitioners to His Majesty at York in their Petition a Copy whereof was here now read have done nothing but what was Legal Just and Expedient for the good of the King and Kingdom and is now approved by the whole body of the Commons Resolved upon the Question That the Copy of the Petition now read and formerly preferred by the Lords to His Majesty at York shall be here Entred Thursday November 19th 1640. It is Ordered That if occasion shall be for the examination of any Members of this House in the business concerning the Earl of Strafford they shall be ready upon Notice to be examined upon Oath It is likewise Ordered That upon the Message to be sent from this House the Lords be desired to make the like Order for the Members and Assistants of their House and to desire their Lordships that if occasion be that any Privy-Counsellors be produced as Witnesses they will take such course as in their Judgments they shall think fit that they may be examined This Message to be sent to morrow morning by the Messengers formerly sent Mr. St. Iohns Mr. Palmer Mr. Glimer Mr. Selden Mr. Grimstone Mr. Maynard Sir Simond D'ewes Mr. Whstiler Mr. Thomas Widerington Mr. Sollicitor This Select Committee or any two of them are appointed to search the Record of Attainder in the Kings Bench in such manner and at such time as they shall think fit for the furtherance of the Charge in hand against the Earl of Strafford Friday November 20th 1640. Mr. Whistler Reported from the Committee for Irish Affairs That he is required by the Committee to Report to the House the Affairs of that Kingdom as they were set forth in a Remonstrance made by the House of Commons in this present Parliament in Ireland wherein it appeared that Trading was destroyed Industry disheartned new and unlawful Impositions were Imposed the Arbitrary Determinations of all Causes for Goods Land and Possessions by Petitions and Act at Council-Table where no Writ of Error can lie and the King loseth a Fine upon the Original Writ thereby That His Majesties Gracious Inclination for the good of that Kingdom is kept from them That there is a Monopoly of the sole Trade of Tobacco of more gain to the Parties interessed therein than the King 's whole Revenue in Ireland The destroying of the Plantation of London-Derry The Exorbitant Power of the High Commission which cryeth loud in all the three Kingdoms The Proclamation forbidding any to depart thence for England without Licence and pay dear for it The many Subsidies given and Monies raised for the King and still he is in Debt and therefore demands an account of His Treasure and desires present Redress or Access to His Majesty A Copy of the Remonstrance was delivered in under the Hand of the Clerk of the Parliament there and was read and shall be entred if so Ordered That the Secretaries there Mr. Slingsby and Mr. Little be required to send hither the Book of Entries of the several Petitions presented to the late Lord Deputy now Lord Lieutenant of Ireland and the several Orders and Proceedings thereupon made That Mr. Little the younger and Mr. Carpenter who have the Monopoly for Tobacco be required to send hither those Warrants by which they demand and have laid those Taxes upon Tobacco That the several Affairs of the Custom-House and Ports viz. Dublin Kingsale Yowhall Waterford Corke Galloway Carrick-Fergus and Bangor be required to send hither their Books of Entries whereby the Impositions laid upon several Commodities may appear there were several Warrants issued forth according to this Order and
Quality and Trust are in Ireland material Witnesses to be examined as the Master of the Rolls the Lord Chancellor and others these can hardly be spared to come hither to give their Testimony The Committee desires the Advice of the House in this particular which without their Judgments cannot be determined to think of some way how these Parties might have their Testimony taken and the Truth might be known and Justice done This whole matter thus Reported from the Committee for Irish Affairs is recommitted to the same Committee again to consider of it and to draw those things that are to be inquired of under apt Heads and so present them to the judgment of this House to proceed accordingly Mr. Maynard Mr. St. Iohns Mr. Hide Mr. Whistler Mr. Ieofrey Palmer Mr. Glyn Mr. Sollicitor This Committee is to Collect and Offer to this House Reasons for this House to make use of and insist upon in maintainance of that Point of the Message of this House to the Lords which desires the presence of some of the Members of this House at the Examination of such Witnesses as shall be Proposed by this House in the Accusation of the Earl of Strafford To the Right Honourable the Lord-Deputy The Humble and just Remonstrance of the Knights Citizens and Burgesses of the Parliament assembled SHEWING THat in all Ages since the happy Subjection of this Kingdom to the Imperial Crown of England it was and is a Principal Study and Princely Care of His Majesty and His Noble Progenitors Kings and Queens of England and Ireland to the vast Expence of Treasure and Blood that their Loyal and Dutiful people of this Land of Ireland being now for the most part derived from British Ancestors should be Governed according to the Municipal and Fundamental Laws of England that the Statute of Magna Charta or the Great Charter of the Liberties of England and other Laudable Laws and Statutes were in several Parliaments here Enacted and Declared That by the means thereof and of the most Prudent and Benign Government of His Majesty and His Royal Progenitors this Kingdom was until of late in its growth a Flourishing Estate whereby the said people were heretofore enabled to answer their humble and natural desires to comply with His Majesties Princely and Royal Occasions by their free Gift of 150 Thousand Pounds Sterling and likewise by another free Gift of 120 Thousand Pounds more during the Government of the Lord Viscount Faulkland and after by the Gift of 40 Thousand Pounds and their free and chearful Gift of Six intire Subsidies in the 10th Year of His Majesties Reign which to comply with His Majesties then Occasions signified to the then House of Commons They did allow should amount in the Collections unto 250 Thousand Pounds although as they confidently believe if the Subsidies had been levied in a moderate Parliamentary way they would not have amounted to much more than half the Sum aforesaid besides the four intire Susidies granted in this present Parliament So it is May it please Your Lordship by the occasion of the insuing and other Grievances and Innovations though to His Majesty no considerable Profit this Kingdom is reduced to that extream and universal Poverty that the same is less able to pay Subsidies than it was heretofore to satisfie all the before recited great Payments And His Majesties most Faithful people of the Land do conceive great fears that the said Grievances and Consequences thereof may be hereafter drawn into Presidents to be perpetuated upon their Posterity which in their great Hopes and strong Beliefs they are perswaded is contrary to His Royal and Princely intention towards His said people some of which said Grievances are as followeth 1. The general apparent decay of Trades occasioned by the new and illegal raising of the Book of Rates and Impositions upon Native and other Commodities Exported and Imported by reason whereof and of extream Usage and Censures Merchants are beggered and both disinabled and discouraged to Trade and some of the honourable Persons who gain thereby are often Judges and Parties and that in the conclusion His Majesties Profit thereby is not considerably advanced 2. The Arbitrary decision of all civil Causes and Controversies by paper Petitions before the Lord Lieutenant and Lord Deputy and infinite other Judicatories upon reference from them derived in the nature of all Actions determinable at the Common Law not limitted into certain time cause season or thing whatsoever And the consequences of such proceedings by receiving immoderate and unlawful Fees by Secretaries Clerks Pursevants Serjeants at Arms and otherwise by which kind of proceedings His Majesty loseth a considerable part of his Revenue upon Original Writs and otherwise and the Subject loseth the benefit of his Writ of Error Bill of Reversal Vouchers and other legal and just Advantages and the ordinary Course and Courts of Justice declined 3. The proceedings in civil Causes at Council-Board contrary to the Law and great Charter not limited to any certain time or season 4. That the Subject is in all the material parts thereof denied the benefit of the Princely Graces and more especially of the Statute of Limitations of 21 of Iac. granted by His Majesty in the Fourth Year of His Reign upon great Advice of the Councils of England and Ireland and for great Consideration and then published in all the Courts of Dublin and in all the Counties of this Kingdom in open Assizes whereby all Persons do take notice That contrary to His Majesties Pious Intentions His Subjects of this Land have not enjoyed the benefit of His Majesties Princely Promise thereby made 5. The extrajudicial avoiding of Letters Patents of Estates of a very great part of His Majesties Subjects under the Great Seal the Publick Faith of the Kingdom by private Opinions delivered at the Council-Board without Legal Evictions of their Estates contrary to Law and without President or Example of any former Age. 6. The Proclamation for the sole emption and uttering of Tobacco which is bought at very low Rates and uttered at high and excessive Rates by means whereof thousands of Families within this Kingdom and of His Majesties Subjects in several Islands and other parts of the West-Indies as your Petitioners are informed are destroyed and the most part of the Coin of this Kingdom is ingrossed into particular Hands insomuch that your Petitioners do conceive that the Profit arising and ingrossed thereby doth surmount His Majesties Revenue certain or casual within this Kingdom and yet his Majesty receiveth but very little profit by the same 7. The universal and unlawful encreasing of Monopolies to the advantage of a few the disprofit of His Majesty and impoverishment of His people 8. And the extream cruel Usage of certain late Commissioners and other Stewards of the British Farmers and Inhabitants of the City and County of London-Derry by means whereof the worthy Plantation of that Country is almost destroyed and the Inhabitants are reduced to
great Poverty and many of them forced to forsake the Country the same being the first and most useful Plantation in the large Province of Ulster to the great weakning of the Kingdom in this time of danger the said Plantation being the principal Strength of those parts 9. The late Erection of the Court of High Commission for Causes Ecclesiastical in these necessitous Times the proceedings of the said Court in many Causes without legal Warrant and yet so supported as Prohibitions have not been obtained though legally sought for And the excessive Fees exacted by the Ministers thereof and the encroaching of the same upon the Jurisdiction of other Ecclesiastical Courts of this Kingdom 10. The exorbitant Fees and pretended Customs exacted by the Clergy against the Law some of which have been formerly represented to your Lordship 11. The Petitioners do most heartily bemoan that His Majesties Service and Profit are much more impaired than advanced by the Grievances aforesaid and the Subsidies granted in the last Parliament having much encreased His Majesties Revenue by the buying of Grants and otherwise And that all His Majesties Debts then due in this Kingdom were satisfied out of the said Subsidies and yet His Majesty is of late as the Petitioners have been informed in the House of Commons become indebted in this Kingdom in great Sums And they do therefore humbly beseech That an exact Account may be sent to His Majesty how and in what manner His Treasure is issued 12. The Petitioners do humbly conceive just and great fears at a Proclamation published in this Kingdom in Anno Domini 1635. prohibiting men of Quality or Estates to depart this Kingdom into England without the Lord-Deputies Licence whereby the Subjects of this Kingdom are hindred and interrupted from free access to address to His Sacred Majesty and Privy-Council of England to declare their just Grievances or to obtain Remedies for them in such sort as their Ancestors have done in all Ages since the Reign of King Henry the Second and great Fees exacted for every of the said Licences 13. That of late His Majesties Attorney-General hath exhibited Informations against many ancient Burroughs of this Kingdom into His Majesties Court of Exchequer to shew cause by what Warrant the said Burgesses who heretofore sent Burgesses to Parliament should send the Burgesses to the Parliament and thereupon for want of an Answer the said Priviledges of sending Burgesses was seized by the said Court which Proceedings were altogether Coram non Iudice and contrary to the Laws and Priviledges of the House of Parliament and if way should be given thereunto would tend to the Subversion of Parliaments and by Consequence to the Ruine and Destruction of the Common Wealth And that the House of Commons hath hitherto in this present Parliament been deprived of the Advice and Counsel of many profitable and good Members by means thereof 14. By the Powerfulness of some Ministers of State in this Kingdom the Parliament in its Members and Actions hath not its natural Freedom 15. And lastly That the Gentry and Merchants and other His Majesties Subjects of this Kingdom are of late by the Grievances and Pressures before said and other the like brought very near to Ruine and Destruction And the Farmers of Customs Customers Waiters Searchers Clerks of Unwarrantable Proceedings Pursevants and Goalers and sundry others very much enriched whereby and by the slow Redress of the Petitioners Grievances His Majesties most Faithful and Dutiful People of this Kingdom do conceive great fears that their readiness approved upon all occasions hath not been of late rightly represented to His Sacred Majesty For remedy whereof the said Petitioners do humbly and of right beseech your Lordships That the said Grievances and Pressures may be speedily Redressed and if your Lordship shall not think fit to afford present Relief that your Lordship might admit a Select Committee of this House of Persons uninteressed in the benefit arising of the aforesaid Grievances to be Licenced by your Lordship to repair to His Sacred Majesty in England for to pursue the same and to obtain fitting remedy for their aforesaid and other just Grievances and Oppressions and upon all just and honourable Occasions they will without respect of particular Interest or Profit to be raised thereby most humbly and readily in Parliament extend their utmost endeavour to serve His Majesty and comply with His Royal and Princely Occasions and shall pray c. Monday November 30th 1640. Sir Thomas Roe Mr. Pym Mr. Strode Mr. St. Iohns Mr. Grimston Lord Digby Sir Iohn Clotworthy Sir Walter Earle Mr. Hampden Mr. Maynard Mr. Hyde Mr. Whistler Mr. Palmer Mr. Glyn Mr. Solicitor Mr. Selden My Lord Dungarvan Sir Francis Seymor Sir Hugh Cholmely Lord Wenman Sir Io. Evelyn Sir Benjamin Rudyard Sir Iames Thynn Sir Iohn Culpepper Sir Iohn Strangwaies Sir Symon D'Ewes Mr. George Vane Lord Cramborne Lord Compton Mr. Bellassis Mr. Kirton Sir Thomas Hutchison Sir William Bowyer Sir Iames Smith Sir Arthur Ingram Lord Russell Lord Ruthin Mr. Comisby Mr. Noel Sir Thomas Bowyer Mr. Cecill Lord Fairfax Sir Thomas Widdrington Sir Peter Hayman Sir Iohn Holland Mr. Iames Fynes Sir Robert Crane Sir Iohn Corbet Mr. Io. Alford Sir Roger North Sir Edmond Mountford Mr. Whitlocke Mr. Mountagne Lord Faulkland Sir Peter Stapleton Sir Henry Mildmay Lord Herbert Sir Richard Wynn Sir Edward Rodney Sir Ralph Hopton This Committee is to meet with the Committee of 30 of the Lords concerning a Message sent hither on Friday last from their Lordships touching a Message sent formerly from this House to them by Mr. Pym for the Examination of their Members in the Accusation of the Earl of Strafford and touching a free Conference upon the last Point of that Message that some of the Members of this House should be present at the Examination of Witnesses to be propounded by this House to be examined in the Accusation of the Earl of Strafford The Petition of several of the Knights Citizens and Burgesses of the Commons House of Parliament in Ireland whose Names are underwritten directed to the whole House of Commons in England read The Humble Petition of the Knights Citizens and Burgesses of the Commons House of Parliament in Ireland whose Names are underwritten To the King 's most Excellent Majesty read The two Gentlemen Mr. Io. Bellewe and Mr. Oliver Castle who brought over those Petitions were called in and demanded by Mr. Speaker several Questions These Gentlemen were again called in and Mr. Speaker told them This House has taken into Consideration your Petition and in due time you shall know the Pleasure of this House Ordered That the Lieutenant of the Tower be required from this House that he do not suffer Sir George Ratcliff to speak with the Earl of Strafford a Prisoner there until further Order be given from this House nor suffer any Message or Letter to be sent from Sir George Ratcliff unto him or if any such be to
believes to be true having been formerly so informed by His Majesties Learned Council upon sundry occasions To the Fourth he saith That the legal and ordinary Proceedings at Council-Table are and time out of mind have been by Petition Answers examination of Witnesses as in other Courts of Justice concerning British Plantations the Church and Cases hence recommended by the King for the time being and in Appeals from other Courts there and the Council-Board have always punished Contempts to Orders there made to Proclamations and Acts of State by Fine and Imprisonment He saith That it might be he told the Earl of Cork that he would imprison him if he disobeyed the Orders of the Council-Table and that he would not have Lawyers dispute or question those Orders and that they should bind but remembreth not the Comparison of Acts of Parliament and he hath been so far from scorning the Laws that he hath endeavoured to maintain them the Suit against the Earl in the Castle-Chamber was concerning the Possessions of the Colledge of Youghall worth 6 or 700 l. which he had endeavoured to get by causing of unlawful Oaths to be taken and very undue means the matter proceeded to Examination and Publication of Witnesses and after upon the Earl of Cork's humble Suit and payment of 15000 l. to His Majesty and his acknowledgement of his Misdemeanors obtained a Pardon and the Bill and Proceedings were taken of the Files and he remembers not any Suit for breach of any Order made at Council-Table To the Fifth he saith The Deputies and Generals of the Army have always executed Martial Law which is necessary there and the Army and the Members thereof have been long time Governed by printed Orders according to which divers by Sentence of the Council of War have formerly been put to death as well in the time of Peace as War The Lord Mountnorris being a Captain of a Company in the Army for mutinous words against the said Earl General of that Army and upon two of those ancient Orders was proceeded against by a Council of War being the Principal Officers of the Army about twenty in number and by them upon clear Evidence sentenced to Death wherein the said Earl was no Judge but laboured so effectually with His Majesty that he obtained the Lord Mountnorris's Pardon who by that Sentence suffered no personal hurt or damage save about two days Imprisonment And as to the other Persons he can make no Answer thereunto no particulars being described To the Sixth he saith The Suit had depended many years in Chancery and the Plaintiff Complaining of that delay the said Earl upon a Petition as in such Cases hath been usual calling to him the then Master of the Rolls the now Lord Chancellor and the Chief Justice of the Common Pleas upon the Proofs in the Chancery decreed for the Plantiff to which he refers himself and it may be the Lord Mountnorris was thereupon put out of his Possession To the Seventh he saith His Majesty being Intituled to divers Lands upon an Inquisition found Proclamation was made That such as Claimed by Patent should come in by a day and have their Patents allowed as if they had been found in the Inquisition and accordingly divers were allowed The Lord Dillon produced His Patent which being questionable he consented and desired that a Case might be drawn which was drawn by Counsel and argued and the Judges delivered their Opinions but the Lord Dillon nor any other were bound thereby or put out of Possession but might have traversed the Office or otherwise legally have proceeded that Case or Opinion notwithstanding To the Eighth he saith That upon Sir Iohn Gifford's Petition to the King His Majesty referred it to the Deputy and Council of Ireland where the matter proceeding legally to a Decree against the Lord Loftus and upon his Appeal that Decree by His Majesty and His Council of England was confirmed to which Decree and Order he refers himself believing the Lord Loftus was committed for disobeying that Decree and for continuance in contempt committed close Prisoner He saith That the Lord Loftus having committed divers Contempts the Council by Warrant required him to appear at the Board and to bring the Great Seal with him which Order he disobeyed and was shortly after Committed and the Great Seal was delivered up by His Majesties express Command and not otherwise And an Information was exhibited in the Star-Chamber for grievous Oppressions done by the Lord Loftus as Chancellor whereof he was so far from justifying as that he submitted desiring to be an Object of His Majesties Mercy and not of His Justice The Earl of Kildare for not performing of an Award made by King Iames and of an Award made in pursuance thereof by the said Earl of Strafford upon a Reference from His Majesty was by the Deputy and Council Committed and a Letter being unduly obtained he did not thereupon enlarge him but upon another Letter and submission to the Orders as by the King was directed he was enlarged The Lady Hibbots and one Hoy her Son having upon a Petition Answer Examination of Witnesses and other Proceedings at Council-Board been found to have committed foul abuses by Fraud and Circumvention to have made a Bargain with the Petitioner Hibbots for Lands of a great value for a small sum of Money was Ordered to deliver up the Writing no Assurances being perfected or Money paid and it 's like he threatned her with Commitment if she obeyed not that Order but denieth that the Lands were after sold to Sir Robert Meredith to his use or that by any Order by himself made any one hath been Imprisoned concerning Freeholds but for debts and personal things as some have been used by all his Predecessors in like Causes To the Ninth he saith Warrants to such Effects have been usually granted to the Bishops in Ireland in the times of all former Deputies but the Earl not satisfied with the conveniency thereof refused to give any such Warrants in general to the Bishops as had been formerly done but being informed that divers in the Diocess of Down gave not fitting Obedience he granted a Warrant to that Bishop whereto he referreth which was the only Warrant he granted of that Nature and hearing of some Complaints of the Execution thereof he recalled it To the Tenth he saith The Lord Treasurer Portland offered the Farm of the Customs for 13000 l. per annum in some particular Species but the Earl of Strafford advanced the same Customs to 15500 l. per annum and 8000 l. Fine and by His Majesties Command became a Farmer at those Rates proposed without addition to those Rates as by the printed Books 7 Car. Regis may appear he disswaded the advance of Rates lately proposed by Sir Abraham Dawes so as it was declined the Rates of Hydes and Wooll are moderate consideration being had of their true value and of the Places whereto they are
divert the Earl of Argile in case he joined with the Covenanters Army against the King but it was mentioned in the King's Letter 2. Mertii 1639. he had purposely given out That they should join with the King's Army at Berwick to colour other Designs but the true cause of their Levying was made known to be as aforesaid unto the Earl of Ormond Sir Iohn Burlace and the Marquiss of Hamilton and Earl of Northumberland at the time of the writing the Letter and he denies the words charged in the Articles or any other words to such intent and purpose To the 23th he saith The matters of the Parliament were no otherwise referred to him than to the rest of the Council that coming sick from Ireland about ten days after the Parliament were set and after the Treaty with the Earl of Dunfermline Lord Lowdon Scotch Commissioners was broken off and the Army preparing and the Parliament not supplying Monies as His Majesty desired His Majesty advised what might move them to prefer His Supply in debate whereof he humbly advised His Majesty by a Message to the House to lay down Ship-Money and promise never to demand it and give way to reverse the Judgment by a Writ of Error in Parliament and to promise a Redress of Grievances when they should be prepared And secondly That they would presently agree upon such Supply as should maintain His Army for reducing the Scots to their Obedience wherein their Safety and His Honour was concerned His Majesty assented conditionally that he might have 12 Subsidies the Earl besought Him that it might not pass as a Condition but to Relinquish Ship-Money and put himself upon their Affections and drew up the Message in Writing and delivered it to Mr. Secretary Vane to deliver to the House of Commons He desired to know if His Majesty would not take less than 12 His Majesty Answered He feared less would not serve His Occasions The Earl of Strafford besought His Majesty to accept of Eight so His Majesty assented and desired Mr. Secretary to signifie so much as occasion should be offered but whether he did so or not the said Earl knoweth not The House of Commons being in debate two days and not Resolving His Majesty about the 5th of May last called a Council at Seven of the Clock in the Morning the said Earl being sick came late and was told as he remembreth by the Earl of Bark-shire the King had declared His Resolution to Dissolve the Parliament the Earl of Strafford besought His Majesty to hear the Advice of His Council and first of those that were Members of the House of Commons by whom the rest might the better be guided Mr. Secretary Windebank said He feared the House would first be Answered of their Grievances and Voted for a Breach of the Parliament Mr. Secretary Vane in opposite terms said That there was no hope that they would give the King a Penny and therefore absolutely Voted for a Breach And the Earl of Strafford conceiving His Majesties Pleasure to have accepted Eight Subsidies had been delivered to the House of Commons by Mr. Secretary Vane did in His Majesties turn deliver his Vote for Breach of the Parliament which otherwise he would not have done it being contrary to what he Resolved when he came thither and like Opinion was delivered by the rest of the Lords being about twenty except two or three at the most The Parliament being Dissolved His Majesty desired Advice of His Council How money might be raised affirming That the Scotch Army was ready to enter into the Kingdom The said Earl in presence of others in the Council delivered his Opinion That in a Case of absolute and unavoidable necessity which neither would nor could be prevented by ordinary remedies provided by the Laws nor all His Majesties other means sufficient to defend the Common wealth Himself or their Lives and Estates from an Enemy without force of Arms either actually entred or daily expected to Invade the Realm He conceived that His Majesty was absolved from ordinary Rules and might use in as moderate a way the necessity of the Cause would permit all ways and means for defence of Himself and Kingdom for that he conceived in such extremity Salus Populi was Suprema Lex provided it were not colourable nor any thing demanded imployed to other use nor drawn into Example when Law and Justice might take place and that when Peace was setled Reparation was to be given to particular men otherwise it would be unjust This was not officiously declared but in Council forced by the duty of the Oath of a Counsellor which is that he shall in all things to be moved treated and debated in Council faithfully and truly declare his Mind and Opinion according to his Heart and Conscience which Oath the said Earl took and humbly prays their Lordships Consideration thereof He denieth the words in the Article or any words to the intent thereby expressed To the 24th he saith He delivered his Opinion with such Cautions and Restrictions as in the Answer to the Precedent Article and is well assured his Discourse at all times hath been without ill Intentions to either of the Houses of Parliament which he ever did and shall think and speak of with all Reverence He denies that he knew of the Publishing or Printing of the Book nor who caused it to be Printed or Published for at that time he was sick in his Bed more like to die than to live To the 25th he saith Ship-Money was levied and adjudged to be due before his coming over Sheriffs were then called up as before and not otherwise If any were sued in Star-Chamber it was without any particular indeavour of his It appearing at the Board That the Mayor and Sheriffs of London had been slow in Collecting Ship-Money he said They were but Ministerial and ought to Exact and not dispute the King's Writs and that if through their remisness the King should be less able to provide for the Publick Safety when any Forreign Army was ready to enter the Kingdom they might deserve to be Fined and Ransomed which he spake more to hasten them than of purpose to advise any such Prosecution but denies the other words being under favour such Expressions as he is not accustomed unto To the 26th he saith He advised not either of those Projects being then sick in Bed but it being debated at the Council-Table Whether it were better for the King to raise Gold and Silver or Coin base Money He for the Reasons then given delivered his Opinion for the latter Sundry Merchants Adventurers coming to his house desired him to move His Majesty then at Oatlands to Release the Bullion or Money he told them He knew of no such thing and would not meddle with it nor would his Health permit him to go abroad and said That if their denying the King in such a Publick Danger the Loan of 100000 l. upon good Security the King
probable Grounds we are accountable only for our industry or remisness but in judgment We are deeply responsible to God Almighty for it's Rectitude or Obliquity in Cases of Life the Judge is God's Steward of the Parties blood and must give a strict account for every drop But as I told you Mr. Speaker I will not insist long upon the Ground of Difference in me now from what I was formerly The truth on 't is Sir the same Ground whereupon I with the rest of the Five to whom you first committed the Consideration of my Lord Strafford brought down our Opinion That it was fit he should be Accused of Treason upon the same Ground I was engaged with earnestness in his Prosecution and had the same Ground remained in that force of belief with me which till very lately it did I should not have been tender in his Condemnation But truly Sir to deal plainly with you that Ground of our Accusation That Spur to our Prosecution and that which should be the basis of my judgment of the Earl of Strafford as unto Treason is to my understanding quite vanisht away This it was Mr. Speaker His Advising the King to employ the Army of Ireland to reduce England This I was assured would be proved before I gave my consent to his Accusation I was confirmed in the same belief during the Prosecution and fortified in it most of all since Sir Henry Vane's preparatory Examination by the assurances which that worthy Member Mr. Pym gave me that his Testimony would be made convincing by some Notes of what passed at that Iunto concurrent with it which I ever understanding to be of some other Councellor you see now prove but a Copy of the same Secretaries Notes discovered and produc'd in the manner you have heard and those such disjoynted Fragments of the Venemous part of Discourses no Results no Conclusions of Counsels which are the only things that Secretaries should Register there being no use at all of the other but to Accuse and to bring men into danger But Sir this is not that which overthrows the Evidence with me concerning the Army of Ireland nor yet that all the rest of the Iunto upon their Oaths remember nothing of it But this Sir which I shall tell you is that which works with me under favour to an utter overthrow of his Evidence as unto that of the Army of Ireland before whilst I was a Prosecutor and under tie of Secrecy I might not discover any weakness of the Cause which now as a Judge I must Mr. Secretary was examined thrice upon Oath at the preparatory Committee The first time he was questioned to all the Interrogatories and to that part of the Seventh which concerns the Army of Ireland He said positively in these words I cannot Charge him with that But for the rest he desires time to recollect himself which was granted him Some days after he was Examined a second time and then deposes these words concerning the King's being Absolved from Rules of Government and so forth very clearly But being prest to that part concerning the Irish Army He said again I can say nothing to that Here we thought we had done with him till divers weeks after my Lord of Northumberland and all others of the Iunto denying to have heard any thing concerning those words Of reducing England by the Irish Army It was thought fit to Examine the Secretary once more and then he deposes these words to have been said by the Earl of Strafford to His Majesty You have an Army in Ireland which you may Imploy here to reduce or some word to that sense this Kingdom Mr. Speaker these are the Circumstances which I confess with my Conscience thrust quite out of doors that Grand Article of our Charge concerning his desperate Advice to the King of Employing the Irish Army here Let not this I beseech you be driven to an Aspersion upon Mr. Secretary as if he should have Sworn otherwise than he knew or believed he is too worthy to do that only let thus much be inferred from it that he who twice upon Oath with time of recollection could not remember any thing of such a business might well a third time mis-remember somewhat in this business the difference of one letter here for there or that for this quite alters the Case the latter also being more probable since it is confest of all hands that the Debate then was concerning a War with Scotland and you may remember that at the Bar he once said To employ there And thus Mr. Speaker I have faithfully given you an account what it is that hath blunted the edge of the Hatchet or Bill with me towards my Lord of Strafford This was that whereupon I Accused him with a free heart Prosecuted him with earnestness and had it to my understanding been proved should have condemned him with Innocence Whereas now I cannot satisfie my Conscience to do it I profess I can have no notion of any bodies intent to subvert the Laws Treasonably or by force and this design of Force not appearing all his other wicked Practises cannot amount so high with me I can find a more easie and more natural Spring from whence to derive all his other Crimes than from an intent to bring in Tyranny and to make his own Posterity as well as Us Slaves as from Revenge from Pride from Avarice from Passion and Insolence of Nature But had this of the Irish Army been proved it would have diffused a Complexion of Treason over all it would have been a Withe indeed to bind all those other scattered and lesser branches as it were into a Faggot of Treason I do not say but the rest may represent him a man as worthy to die but perhaps worthier than many a Traytor I do not say but they may justly direct Us to Enact That they shall be Treason for the future But God keep me from giving Judgment of Death on any man and of Ruine to his innocent Posterity upon a Law made a Posteriori Let the Mark be set on the door where the Plague is and then let him that will enter die I know Mr. Speaker there is in Parliament a double Power of Life and Death by Bill a Judicial Power and a Legislative the measure of the one is what 's legally just of the other what is Prudentially and Politickly fit for the good and preservation of the whole But these two under favour are not to be confounded in Judgment We must not piece up want of legality with matter of convenience not the defailance of prudential fitness with a pretence of legal Justice To Condemn my Lord of Strafford Judicially as for Treason my Conscience is not assured that the matter will bear it And I do it by the Legislative Power my reason consultively cannot agree to that since I am perswaded neither the Lords nor the King will pass the Bill and consequently that Our passing it will be
they must be sworn But that now I answer only to Treason If I were neither privy to the taking out of the Commission nor any way employed in the executing of it I Appeal unto your Lordships and the Gentlemen of the House of Commons Whether I can be charged as Criminal as to this Commssion or any thing that proceeds from it As for the Sentence against Sir Conyers Darcy it was Just and he complained not of it Of which I have a Copy and desire it may be read That from the first Institution of the Court of President and Council at York That Court had both a Star-Chamber and Chancery Power as will appear by all the Instructions before that time That if there be an Errour in a Judge so that he give a Sentence otherwise than a man of better understanding conceives reason for there is no cause it should be heightned to a Treason to take from him his Life and Honour and all he hath meerly because he was not so wise a man as he might have been nor so understanding as another And if this be prest on Judges I think few Judges will serve And for my part I had rather go to my Cottage as the Witness saith then serve on these Terms The Charge lays it to be done in May 8 Car. and divers years following and the Instructions came not in time till the 21st Mar. 8 Car. which I conceive to be a mistaking of the year That as to the Sentence of Sir Iohn Bourcher which is charged upon me but not insisted upon by the Gentleman I was no way acquainted with the beginning proceeding or ending of the Cause being all that while in Ireland so Your Lordships may observe with what uncertainty men may speak that do inform in such Cases That of the Commission the 13th of the King with which I am likewise charged as the Procurer of it I had no more knowledge than of that which was most forreign being at that time in Ireland and the Commission renewed of one of the Council in Fee I shall now descend to Proofs That the Commission 8 Car. was renewed upon Sir Iohn Meltons coming to be Secretary instead of Sir Arthur Ingram The Committee admitted it To the Testimonies given by the Witnesses I observe That Iohn Gore the first Witness speaks nothing to the renewing of the Commission but to his Fathers Commitment and that was in November but what year Non liquet But this is not within my Charge therefore I shall not Answer to that Though if it were in Charge I doubt not but in that and every thing else I shall give an account of an honest and just man not to say of a discreet and a wise man That for the Testimony of Iohn Musgrave it contains nothing within my Charge and I can say nothing to it but by way of Divination And he is but a single Witness And therefore I conceive shall hardly be able to convince any man of High Treason hardly of a Trespass That what Iohn Musgrave speaks of is grounded on a question of the Jurisdiction of Courts and one rule of our Law is Boni judicis est amplicare Iurisdictionem And why the enlarging of a Jurisdiction should be heightned to a Treason I Appeal to Your Lordships Nobleness Justice and Honour to consider for I think there are none in place of Judicature but they will desire to enlarge their Jurisdiction as far as in Reason and Justice they may And it is a chast Ambition if rightly placed to have as much Power as may be That there may be Power to do the more good in the place where a man lives For F. Thorpe's Testimony I observe That I have nothing to say to him of Exception but that he speaks nothing to the purpose nor to any thing in the Charge I being Charged with the Execution of the Commission 8 and 13 of the King and all he speaks of is precedent in time And what he says is by hear-say from Mr. Justice Hutton and Sir William Ellis I do not remember my Lord Gorings speaking to me about Mr. Thorpe it being 12 13 or 14 years ago I have put in my Answer and if that be not Impeached by Testimony of Witnesses as it is not I conceive it ought to be allowed I desire to produce Witnesses wherein I have Liberty but not to examine on Oath And first To the time of my going towards Ireland His Lordships Secretary being interrogated He Answered That his Lordship went from London 8 Iuly 1633. towards Ireland the 9th year of the King Mr. Railton To the time of his Lordships going towards Ireland said That 8 Iuly 1633. My Lord began his Journey into Ireland being the Ninth year of the King The Committee for the Commons admitted that he went over in Iuly 1633. To the time of my Lord of Straffords coming from York Mr. Thomas Little says His Lordship came from York in Ianuary was eight years and returned not to York till 1636. To his Lordships doing any act as President of York since the said New Commission of Octavo Caroli Mr. Thomas Little says That since the date of that Commission his Lordship never sate as President of the North in any Cause whatsoever His Lordship offered to prove his being in Ireland when Sir Iohn Bourcher was censured by the Vice-President and Council But the Commons not pressing his Lordship in that matter he said If it be granted I have done To the Earl of Straffords being in Ireland when the Commission 8 Car. was renewed Mr. Thomas Little Answered being questioned My Lord was in Ireland at that time he went over in 1636. having come over in November before and was not in England again till 1639. And so My Lords I conclude my Defence That I am charged only with procuring and executing the Commission And this Answer I humbly offer and submit Iohn Gore speaks particularly of the occasion of enlarging the Commission upon the Arresting of his Father That my Lord of Strafford fell on his Knees desiring from His Majesty an enlarging of his Power else that he might go home So going out of England in Iuly after the Commission answers to the Procurement that was before That which his Lordship hath answered to F. Thorpe That the things by him complained of were in the time before the Commission may be used as an Argument That he was privy to the Instructions We produce I. Musgrave only to shew my Lords Violence about Prohibitions before this Commission was procured He growing so high a little before That he would lay them by the Heels that brought the Kings Writ The Council were awed that they durst not demand Justice So that the procuring of it suited most with his Design That his Witnesses had little contradicted what the Witnesses for the Commons had said That whereas it is said the Charge is not Treason if the Fact shall appear to their
Lords but that he spake only to the point of time My Lord of Strafford did here affirm it to be most certainly true That the Petition concerning the things Mr. Fitzgarret mentions was delivered at Council-Board and not in Parliament and desiring Mr. Fitzgarrets further explanation of himself He Answered That he conceives there were two Petitions one as he thinks concerning the performance of the Instructions of 1628. whereunto an Answer might be given at Council-Board and he believes it was subscribed by many of the Council There was another Petition of Grievances seeking redress of them and to whether of these his Lordship gave an Answer in Parliament he remembers not but believes there was an Answer made to both or one of them in full Parliament The Lord Gorminstone being demanded at what time and on what occasion my Lord of Strafford spake the words he was examined on before in the Parliament at Dublin He Answered A Petition was delivered to my Lord of Strafford and he spake to the House wherein he spake the words that he had formerly related That they must expect Laws as from a Conqueror and that the Instructions published for the setling of that Government were procured by a company of narrow hearted Commissioners That he did not then remember the certain time but he is sure it was in Parliament and so resented that almost all took notice of it when most part were English and British Extractions and very few Irish. The Lord Killmallock being demanded to the same purpose Answered That he conceived the occasion was a delivery of a Petition to his Lordship It is true it was not delivered in Parliament nor were the words spoken at the Council-Table where the Petition was delivered But he conceives it was on occasion of delivering that Petition that his Lordship speaks For after the Petition was delivered three or four days after his Lordship came to the Parliament House he called both Houses before him and there delivered these words That Ireland was a Conquered Nation and therefore must expect Laws as from a Conqueror Adding further That the Book of Instructions meaning the Book Printed in King Iames His Reign for the orderly Government of the Courts of Justice was contrived and procured by a company of narrow-hearted Commissioners who knew not what belonged to Government The words he said he remembers very perfectly as having great misery on his heart in the speaking And whereas it is said none did take notice of them They did but they durst not it wrought inwardly and had they spoken of it they expected no redress but a greater addition of calamity to them We shall now proceed and observe That this Article touching the Laws of Ireland gives the ground-work of what follows in the subsequent Articles concerning Ireland And first We desire Your Lordships to take into remembrance That though Ireland differ in some particular Statutes from England yet they enjoy the same Common Law without any difference That by the Statute 28 H. 6. in Ireland It is Enacted That every Cause shall be remitted to its proper Court It is true the King hath this Prerogative not to be tied to sue in the Kings-Bench but may sue in any Courts of Justice for matters Triable in the Common-Pleas or Chancery or Exchequer all Courts are open to him wherever he will have his Cause judged but with the Subject the proper Cause must go to the proper Court and according to this the exercise and use is continued in that Kingdom Some Incroachments being made King Iames of blessed memory took consideration of it he appointed Commissioners and Instructions were Printed in pursuance of this A Noble Earl now present Justice Iones Sergeant Crew and divers others were imployed in that Service These Instructions as they remit the Causes to the proper Courts so they declare that it had crept in at the Council-Table in latter times to take Oaths but direct that it shall be forborn for matters of Interest and Complaint between party and party and matters of Title And it stays not here but a Proclamation is issued to the same effect This Statute these Instructions and this Proclamation we desire may be read Accordingly the Statute was read whereby it was ordained to the Governour of the Land or other Officer for the time being He that accuses shall find sufficient sureties for the damage of him that is accused and if it shall be adjudged that the Suggestion or Accusation is not true c. And also that he that is Arrested may go by Surety or Bail till the matter be determined And if it be matter of Treason or Felony to be remitted to the Kings-Bench if Conscience to the Chancery if Franchise to the Seneschal of the Liberty if for Debt to the Common-Pleas c. saving the Kings Prerogative Then part of the Instructions were read published 1622. wherein it is Ordered That the Council-Table shall keep it self within its proper bounds Amongst which the Patents of Plantations and the Offices on which the Grants are founded are to be handled as matters of State and to be determined by the Lord Deputy and Council publickly but Titles between party and party are to be left to the ordinary course of Law and neither Lord-Deputy Governour nor Council-Table hereafter to intermeddle or trouble themselves with ordinary businesses within Cognizance of ordinary Courts nor meddle with possession of Land nor make or use private Orders Hearings or References concerning such matters nor grant Injunctions nor Orders for stay of Suits at Common Law Causes recommended from the Council of England and spiritual Causes concerning the Church excepted Then the Proclamation was read dated November 7. 1625. whereby it is commanded That the Deputy and Council-Chamber in Ireland then and from time to come shall not entertain or take consideration of any private Cause or Causes or Controversies between party and party concerning their private and particular Estates nor any Cause or Controversie of that Board which are not of that nature that do properly concern matter of State But that all Causes and Controversies of that nature moved or depending between party and party concerning private and particular Interests be proceeded in in the ordinary Courts of that Kingdom respectively to whom the Cognizance of these Causes and Controversies doth belong c. For that Objection from the Opinion of my Lord Cooke in Calvins Case if it were an Opinion to the contrary in an Argument it is no binding Authority But that Opinion is nothing at all against what hath been said for it is express That Ireland did retain the same Common Law with England It is true Ireland hath Statutes and Customs particularly retained and so there be divers particular Customs in England that differ from the Common Law yet are approved and allowed in it as in Wales and the Custom of Gavel-kind and the Common Law which is the general Government is the
same If there be any Statute that gives my Lord of Strafford as Governour alone power to take Cognizance of meerly private Causes it is something to the purpose to say there is a particular Statute but till that be shewed he hath in this erected an Arbitrary Power And so he concluded the Reply and the Third Article THE Fourth Article The Charge THat Richard Earl of Corke having sued out Process in course of Law for recovery of his Possessions from which he was put by colour of an Order made by the said Earl of Strafford and the Council-Table of the said Realm of Ireland upon a Paper Petition without Legal procéeding did the 20th day of February in the 11th year of His now Majesties Reign threaten the said Earl being then a Péer of the said Realm to Imprison him unless he would surcease his Suit and said That he would have neither Law nor Lawyers dispute or question his Orders And the 20th day of March in the said 11th year the said Earl of Strafford speaking of an Order of the said Council-Table of that Realm made in the time of King James which concerned a Lease which the said Earl of Corke claimed in certain Rectories or Tythes which the said Earl of Corke alledged to be of no force said that he would make the said Earl and all Ireland know that so long as he had the Government there any Act of State there made or to be made should be as binding to the Subjects of that Kingdom as an Act of Parliament and did question the said Earl of Corke in the Eastle Chamber there upon pretence of breach of the said Order of Council-Table and did sundry other times and upon sundry other occasions by his Words and Spéeches Arrogate to himself a Power above the Fundamental Laws and Established Government of that Kingdom and scorned the said Laws and Established Government ONE of the Managers opened the 4th Article and said The former Articles shew my Lord of Straffords Words this his Actions This Article concerns my Lord of Corke's being disseized of an Impropriate Rectory upon a Paper Petition to my Lord of Strafford and referred to the Council-Table the Earl of Strafford saying upon the questioning of the Proceedings thereupon That neither Law nor Lawyers should question or dispute his Orders an Order of Council-Board in King Iames his time enjoyning That no Parson Patron or Ordinary should make a Lease for longer time than the life of the Incumbent was made use of as a ground to dispossess the Earl of Corke In the first place We desire to open the Proceedings at Council-Table before my Lord of Straffords time viz. That in no case concerning Land no Decree hath been there made to bind up the party for remedy at Law The Lord Ranulagh being interrogated whether by the course of Proceedings at Council-Table the Deputy and Council have determined Title of Land and Possession and interrupted the parties to proceed at Law He Answered That he hath observed the course of the Board for 22 years and the course was That if Title of Land between party and party were in debate It was commonly dismissed from the Board with a leading order to be tried by course of Common Law Being asked whether a Deputy alone hath determined private Interest He Answered That he cannot positively say whether it were done privately but to the best of his remembrance he knows not that ever any Deputy determined any matter of private Interest but brought it to the Board though by reference or private proceeding it might have proceeded before it came to the Board My Lord of Strafford desired he might be asked whether he ever knew that any matter of Inheritance was ever by himself and the Council determined whilst he was Governour there that was barely Title of Land and nothing else He Answered And desired to explain himself concerning the former That Causes of the Church and matters of Plantations were resolved in former Deputies times to be dispatched at the Board And for the latter question he never knew matter of Title determined at the Board but in Causes of the Church and Plantations My Lord of Strafford desired he might be asked whether as President of Connaught he did not familiarly on Paper Petitions rule all things in the same nature as the Deputy on Petitions to him The Fifth day Friday March 26. 1641. AFter consideration of this matter by their Lordships it was resolved in the Upper-house That my Lord Ranulagh ought not to be examined on that point it tending to an Accusation of himself The Earl of Corke being Sworn and questioned touching my Lord of Straffords words to him upon his excepting against the Orders made upon the Petition touching the said Rectory His Lordship Answered That he had been in Possession as Tenant of the Crown thirty five years of a Rectory and certain Tythes in the County of Tiperany for which he paid a yearly Rent and having enjoyed it so long my Lord presented to it Arthur Gwyn that had been his Coach-mans Groom That when he heard of it he went to my Lord privately and told his Lordship that he was His Majesties Farmer of those Tythes and paid a Rent and desired he might not be sued for them in the Council-Chamber but if a Suit must be ommenced that it might be in the proper Court the Exchequer That my Lord told him he should Answer it there That he did so and my Lord ordered it against him That a Commission went down and Examinations were taken And after my Lord had ordered it against him an Order of course was set down that Gwyn should have them till I recovered them by course of Law That thereupon I brought an Action against him and his Tenants who were Arrested and came to Dublin and then went to my Lord and Dr. Bramhill Bishop of Derry That thereupon I was sent for before my Lord Lieutenant that then was and my Lord Lieutenant told me Sir You have taken out Writs against Gwyn to whom I Ordered the Tythes of the Rectory I confest I had and desired to know why he aked me so adding that I am sure your Lordship will not take away my Possession by a Paper Bill without Trial. That my Lord of Strafford answered call in your Writs or if you will not I will clap you in the Castle For I tell you I will not have my Orders disputed by Law nor Lawyers Gwyn was a poor man and if he should get the Rents of the Impropriation into his hands I could not get them again And therefore I desired security That if by course of Law I should recover it I might have it again That my Lord of Strafford thereupon said It was very fit and just but the Order being brought unto me I said there was no such thing in the Order Being desired by the Earl of Strafford to repeat the last over again I say that
I told the Lieutenant that I did hold the Council-Chamber could not hold Plea of this and thereupon cited 28 H. 6. the Book of Orders the Proclamation Then I moved his Lordship that in regard Gwyn was a poor man and not answerable and might get the Rents being near 100 marks a year he might give security for the Rents if I should recover them by course of Law That my Lord of Strafford thought it just it should be so entred in the Order And being asked how that came to be left out He Answered That Sir Paul Davis the Clerk of the Council told him my Lord of Strafford found fault with it and struck it out with his own hand Being asked what words he heard from my Lord of Strafford concerning the said Order at Council-Board in King Iames his time He Answered That there was a Parsonage in the County of Kerry in his Presentment and it fell void the Dean and some others commended one Atkinson to be his Vicar That on their Commendation not knowing him himself he presented him without any consideration That Atkinson afterwards fell into decay and was Imprisoned and the Prison being very loathsome the Bishop wrote unto him this Deponent and sent him a Lease under the Hand and Seal of him the said Bishop and the Incumbent with a Label for his the Deponents hand and desired him to seal it for 40 s. a year to another that Atkinson might pay his Debts and stock himself with Cattle That he the Deponent refused it though brought 50 miles from his House fearing it might be prejudicial to the next Clerk That the Bishop sent Atkinson's Wife back over the Mountains with his Letter and the Lease and he the Earl of Corke did sign it then For seeing the misery of the poor Woman and her Children he thought it a work of Charity and it continued so till my Lord of Strafford came to the Government That then he had a Bill preferred against him in the Star-Chamber for breaking an Act of State That none should make a Lease for longer than the Incumbents life and desired that the Bill should be read in all the Proceedings of it That thereupon he told the Earl of Strafford it was a work of Charity and he never heard of such an Act of State being not published and made in King Iames his time and in the Lord Grandisons Government who are both dead And therefore he conceived there was no cause to charge or prosecute him for it being but an Act of State That my Lord of Strafford Answered I tell you my Lord as Great as you are I will make you and all the Subjects of Ireland know That any Act of State made or to be made shall be as binding to you and the Subjects of Ireland during my Government as an Act of Parliament Being asked on my Lord of Straffords motion whether the Order made in the Case of Gwyn was not made by the major part of the Votes of the Board He Answered That he did say that it was Voted at the Council-Table but he knows not whether it were done by the major part and afterwards with a lower voice His Lordship added that he thinks it was never Voted Iohn Waldron Sworn was examined touching the words my Lord of Strafford was charged to say touching an Act of State being equal to an Act of Parliament and the occasion He Answered It was his chance to be at Council-Table when a Cause depending between the Merchants of Galloway and some others that prosecuted the business in behalf of the Church about a Lease made by the Dean of Derry which was debated at the Council-Board And there was one Mr. Martin of Council for the Merchants and he pressing hard for his Clients It pleased my Lord to think he had over-shot himself or was too forward and asked what he had to say that he prest that Cause so hard That Mr. Martin Answered him He had an Act of Parliament or Statute or to that purpose That my Lord of Strafford Replied again Sir I will make you know That an Act of this Board shall be as good as any Act or Statute or words to that effect Iohn Kay after some Exceptions taken by the Earl of Strafford against him as no fit Witness in respect of his prosecuting a Suit against his Lordship for the Lady Hibbotts which was Over-ruled by their Lordships was sworn and being asked touching the said words to be spoken by the Earl of Strafford and the occasion and the time He Answered That he was present at Council-Table by chance when there was a Cause wherein Mr. Martin pleading for his Clients My Lord-Deputy then asked him What made him so earnest for it He said He had an Act of Parliament or Statute to justifie his Cause Hereupon my Lord-Deputy Answered He should know that as long as Himself sate in that Place An Act of State should be as strong as an Act of Parliament or words to that effect Being asked of the time He Answered He doth not remember the time but it was three years and upwards It was before Iuly 1637. but the Day and Year he remembers not but it was in the Case where Mr. Martin was Council My Lord Corke being asked about the time he said It was in 1635. about February Mr. Waldron being asked Whether it was in a Church-Cause Answered My Lord-Deputy made an Offer That if they would take a Lease for 21 years at full value they should have it But if they would stand on the Trial of the Lease they must take the adventure And Mr. Hoy being asked Whether it was a Church-Cause He Answered He conceived the Church was Interested in it Lord Kill mallock asked Whether he heard my Lord Strafford say An Act of Council should be as Valid as an Act of Parliament when on what occasion and to what scope He Answered That he was at Council-Table some four or five years ago and there did hear my Lord of Strafford say to one of the Council he cannot say it was Mr. Martin He would have him know as long as himself was Governor An Act of State should be as binding as an Act of Parliament on what occasion he cannot say He further said That in the 10th Year of the King in the Parliament held in Ireland he heard Sir George Ratcliffe my Lord of Strafford's Eccho in that House say On occasion of a Bill that was cast out in that House making it Felony for any to have Powder without Licence It is all one he would have an Act of State for it which should be as binding as an Act of Parliament Sir Pierce Crosby was asked Whether he heard my Lord of Strafford at another time say An Act of Council should be as valid as an Act of Parliament when on what occasion to what intent He Answered That he doth very well remember the words the time not precisely but he was sure it was soon
after my Lords coming into Ireland and before the Parliament and was the cause of the first Exception against him the said Sir Pierce Crosby for he reasoned it with his Lordship being at his own Table at Dinner there being then present and sitting next to him a Member of this Honourable House my Lord Castlehaven There were likewise my Lord Osmond and several others of the Council of Ireland The words were these That if he lived He would make an Act of State to be of equal Power with an Act of Parliament That he the Deponent thought his Lordship spoke it merrily and answered him in the same kind saying My Lord when you go about to do this I will believe some body will rise as an English Gentleman did in England and desire a Clause of Exception that it may not reach to himself his Kindred and Friends That my Lord of Strafford looked on him very earnestly and said He would take him whosoever he was and lay him by the heels That this was in Parliament time And he the Deponent would fain have qualified it but Parliament or not Parliament says my Lord Ireland is a Conquer'd Nation and the Conqueror should give the Law That he the said Sir Pierce Crosby Replyed My Lord then I beseech you give me leave I am one of those that must uphold an Act of State by all lawful ways having the Honour to be a Member of the Government though unworthy What will be alledged on the other part they will say an Act of Parliament attaints and restores Blood and doth many things an Act of State cannot reach to for it is confined within the limits of the Government That my Lord having not to Reply to this rose in some choller and told him the Deponent of something else he conceived he the Deponent had done amiss at Council-Board on a Statute that was in debate And so the Manager concluded the Article with thus much more The Article in the conclusion of it charges him with scorning the Government and Laws And it was desired their Lorships would take notice of what is proved out of these words and the concurrent proof Yesterday The Earl of Strafford begins his Defence saying First I must stand upon the truth of my Answer which must be good till it be denied so far as goes to matter of Misdemeanor I have not had time to examine Witnesses having not liberty till Friday last which I urge by way of excuse if my Answers give not full satisfaction Here is an Order of the House of Commons there whereby your Lordships may perceive how unlikely I am to have any thing from Ireland that may work to my Justification which was read and bears Date 25. February 1640. Authorising those undernamed to go aboard any Ships and seize search and break up all Trunks Chests and Cabins aboard To seize on all Silver and Gold except small Sums and all Debts Evidences and Writings as they shall think fit of him the said Earl of Strafford This his Lordship conceived to be a great Violation of the Peerage of the Kingdom For making good of his Answer his Lordship Alledged That the Council-Board of Ireland is a Court of Record which differs much from the Council-Board of England and that they proceed there by Bill Answer Examination Publication and all the formal courses of legal Proceedings That my care to preserve the Authority of the Deputy and Council is not a Subversion of the Laws Only it directs it and puts the execution of the Law another way That for Reasons of State it must be preserved being the place of Resort for Protection and Defence of the English Planters and Protestant Clergy I shall produce and acknowledge the Instructions made 22 Iac. and I shall read part that bounds the Council-Board particulary mentioned in the Reply to the Third Charge I desire a Book may be read a Book in the hands of Mr. Denham containing certain Answers given by the Lord Chichester to certain Complaints made against that State and written with Mr. Baron Denham's own hand which on debate was Resolved not to be read being written only for a private Remembrance I shall refer to my Lord Ranulagh's Deposition the other day to satisfie your Lordships touching the Proceedings at Council Table To prove the Council-Board to be a Court of Record Robert Lord Dillom being asked Whether before my Lord Strafford's time he had not known always during his memory the Deputy and Council in all causes of Plantation and the Church proceed by Petition Answer Examination of Witnesses Publication and Hearing as in other Courts of Equity and upon Oath He Answered That he remembers in my Lord Chichester's time of Government it was the practise of the Board so to do That he remembers it in my Lord Grandison's time that he had the Honour to be called to the Council-Board under my Lord Faulkland's Government and knew it then And it was in the Justices time that preceded my Lord Strafford's Government To have Petitions Examinations of Witnesses Publication a day of hearing granted and all ordinary Proceedings Being asked Whether at that Board they have not been punished who have disobeyed Proclamations and Acts of State before my Lord Strafford's time and how long He Answered That out of his Observation at Council-Table Acts of State were made because of the scarcity of Parliaments that they might be a Supplement to Acts of Parliament that he hath known before and when he sate at the Board on contempts of these Acts of State or Proclamations which he said he had heard the Judges say to be a kind of Law of the Land for the present the Parties were Attached brought to the Board and upon full Examination of the Cause and Proof of the Contempt sometimes Imprisoned sometimes Fined according to the Delinquency and Degree of the Offence supposed to be committed Being asked of Fines in Cases between Party and Party He Answered That he doth not remember any Fine imposed in a special Cause betwixt Party and Party Sir Adam Loftus being asked to the same purpose He Answered It hath ever been since his remembrance the constant Practise there in Causes of the Church and Plantation to proceed on Petition Answer c. and Fines imposed on Breakers of Publick Acts of State and Proclamations But he remembers not any Fines for Contempts in case of particular and private Interest We shall admit it to have Cognizance of matters of Plantation and Church and such as are recommended from the King to the Council here But not to be a Court of Record From these Proofs I infer That the Council-Board there hath another Constitution then here where it is only a Court of State I shall produce the Order made in my Lord of Corke's Case which I observe to be in the Case of the Church and so within the Cognizance of Deputy and Council The Order was read being signed by Sir Paul Davis
at Board with him and required him to give his Testimony who had an Oath given him by the Lord Deputies command by the Clerk of the Council and referred himself to what he and Sir Robert Loftus had long before put under their hands Thereupon the Lord Deputy gave that Paper to the Clerk of the Council to read which was the Paper the Lord Deputy held in his hand and out of which he had read the Charge And that being shewed to my Lord Moore he said to his best remembrance those were the words spoken Sir Robert Loftus was also called in and he being required to give his Testimony referred himself to that which he and my Lord Moore had put under their hands and being shewed him with his hand to it he affirmed it Then my Lord Deputy asked me what I could now say since the words were proved to my face I humbly told his Lordship and made solemn protestation and offered to take my Oath That I did never speak the words as I was able to prove by several Witnesses and desired That the Lord Chancellor at whose Table they were spoken and Judge Martial of the Kingdom then in Town might be summoned to give his Testimony for truth and Sir Adam Loftus his Son and near twenty others and desired they might be examined in the Cause and that I was well able to prove that the words charged to be spoken by me were not spoken by me but by others as to that part that concerns the Affront but his Lordship refused me to have any examined Being asked whether all the Army was then on the march as my Lord of Strafford had said in his Answer He Answered There was at that time three or four or five Companies I am not able to say how many When my Witnesses were refused and I had made my protestation that I had not spoken them and was ready to prove it my Lord Deputy Answered That he knew my Oathes and Protestations well enough I took Exception to the Testimony of the Lord Moore and Sir Robert Loftus as I might in a Legal way But my Lord Deputy rebuked me and spoke in commendation of them and bid my Lord Moore sit down now and be one of my Judges And thereupon commanded me to withdraw which I did and went out into a Gallery by where I stayed about the space of half an hour I think not more I am sure not an hour and was then called in and at the beginning was required to Kneel as a Delinquent which I conceived I was not having endeavoured always to shew my self a faithful Officer Then my Lord Deputy commanded Sir Charles Coote to pronounce the Sentence as Provost Martial of Connaught which he did briefly in effect as in the Sentence And my Lord Deputy took occasion to make a Speech and told me invectively enough amongst other things there remained no more now if he pleased but to cause the Provost Martial to do Execution But withall added That for matter of Life he would supplicate His Majesty And I think he said he would rather lose his Hand than I should lose my Head which I took to be the highest scorn to compare his the Lord Deputies Hand with my Head I said I never did and hoped I never should endanger my Head by Offending His Majesties Laws I was hereupon commanded to be taken to Prison by the Constable of the Castle who took me thence away what past in the time of my absence I knew not but the Articles I was charged with breach of were not declared nor I urged to Answer if I had I could have Answered I knew of no such Articles nor ever saw them till Iune 1636. published by his own Authority and made in time of War And though made for regulating of the Army yet were never put in practice And on a Conference with some of the Council of War I was informed they differed in Opinion amongst themselves and some moved both the Articles might not be pressed And his Lordship Answered he would have both or none Being asked on my Lord of Straffords motion how long after the Sentence given he remained a Prisoner in the Castle I was Committed the 12th and remained until the 18th and was not released by any Favour of my Lord Deputy but on a Certificate of the Physitians and that not admitted but upon Oath That I was in peril of my Life and a Petition drawn by them that had more care of my Health than my self being so afflicted in body and mind with the high Injustice and Oppression I had that I was extreamly ill and was then remitted on Security given by the Chief Justice in 2000 l. Bond to be a Prisoner Being asked on the Committees behalf whether he was not taken to Prison again and how long he continued in Prison for this Cause I continued at my House and was very ill and after that several times was called to the Council-Table by my Lord Deputy and an Information exhibited in the Star-Chamber for pretended Crimes which I shall ever desire to Answer in any publick Legal Judicature rather than live And I was imprisoned again the 11th of April being sent for to my House and found with my Counsel about me preparing my Answer in the best manner I could and the Advice was I should demurr to that Information because I stood under the Sentence of death I was carried by the Constable to the Castle and brought before my Lord Deputy and the said 11th of April 1636. was committed close Prisoner and there continued till the second of May And I knew no other cause but that I had as he said neglected the Kings Grace and had sent my Wife into England and transgressed a Proclamation To which I answered I had not transgressed it that my Wife was full of Grief at my Calamities and I had sent her to save my Life Then my Lord Deputy told me that I had refused the Kings Grace offered me in not accepting his Pardon which I thought not Legal for me to take And thereupon Committed me Being asked on the Lord Lieutenants motion whether the Council were not present He Answered Some of the Council were present but my Lord Committed me the Council not speaking a word Being asked again about the time of his Commitment I was first Committed the 12th of December let go the 18th to my House Committed again the 11th of April put out the second of May I was then in great Extremity and admitted to my House again where I lay in a long continuing sickness and under the hands of Physitians And the 30th of Ianuary afterwards because I sued not out the Pardon was imprisoned again and there continued till March 1637. The Lord Dillom was called and after some exception taken by my Lord of Strafford to the examining of him because he might speak things that amount to an Accusation of himself the same was over-ruled
for him towards the upper end of the Table And there stood charged with several dis-respectful words spoken by him and the words mentioned in the Censure that was read were the words That he was charged to have spoken those words in breach of certain Articles by which the Army of Ireland was Governed the 13th and the 41st That there was much interlocution from my Lord Deputy to my Lord Mountnorris and returned from my Lord Mountnorris to my Lord the substance was That he was ready to give his Charge That he had violated those Articles That my Lord Mountnorris desired time to answer by Counsel and that he might have his Charge in writing That being not readily granted he insisted on it That he might have time to prepare his Answer but was told it was contrary to the form of that proceeding But whether that Objection of the form came from my Lord himself or from some other Member of the Board that I heard before named I cannot possibly say But thus stands the state of it my Lord Mountnorris neither confessing nor denying the Charge my Lord Deputy replyed Sir If you do neither confess nor deny the Charge how shall we proceed The Deputy called on the Lord Moore and said What shall we say to this business My Lord saith the Lord Moore what I can say is under my Hand That a little time after a Letter was read from the King whereby His Majesty was pleased to give direction to proceed in a Martial Court for Reparation and Honour of the Lord Deputy on the Complaint and Information given to the King That my Lord Mountnorris instantly fell on his Knees expressing a great deal of Grief and Sorrow and in truth Passion and had not much to say for himself and soon after was bid to withdraw and being withdrawn my Lord Deputy said That as he had complained to the King so he would expect that Honour from the Board That his Cause should be taken into consideration and such Redress given as was fit He demanded Justice according to the Articles insisted on And having declared it there was a silence amongst us for some time That he was the first that brake that silence and in as humble manner and terms as he could light upon did humbly desire my Lord Deputy to give him leave to ask whether he would give leave to wave either of those Articles but my Lord said he would demand Justice on both That this being so there was some Interlocution of discourse among the Council and in truth he thinks that he was one of the first that said that these Articles and the words cannot bear so good a construction but that there may be some danger of a breach upon these Articles Being asked whether the words were not represented to the Council of War in a Paper written and the Testimony given in pursuance of that Paper He Answered That as he remembers my Lord Moore having made a return to my Lord Deputy My Lord What I can say your Lordship hath under my hand he thinks my Lord Deputy said My Lord if you deny it I have it under your hand to shew And thereupon as he remembers the Clerk of the Council standing by had direction to draw up some Interrogatories which my Lord Moore did acknowledge and Sir Robert Loftus too did affirm that they were spoken by my Lord Mountnorris as much as was mentioned in the Paper Being asked how many Companies of the Army were then in Town how many in a Company and whether they were exercised in a more than ordinary Training and how many Companies the Army consists of He Answered That he thinks the Horse-Troops were 40 or 50 at the most some my Lords own The Foot-Companies were 50. And of those Companies there were he takes it two Horse-Troops besides my Lord 's own Troop and four Foot-Companies they were called up to guard and attend our Occasions in Parliament and they did their Duties as Souldiers every day as indeed my Lord of Strafford was careful of well exercising the Army as any General he ever saw and there are forty Companies of the old standing Army Being asked on my Lord of Straffords Motion Whether my Lord of Strafford did not declare he would not give Judgment in the Cause but Appeal to them as a Suitor for Reparation He Answered That my Lord of Strafford held them to the Point of the Articles demanding Justice on the Articles that he said sometimes he would depend on our Judgment in it and yet he would hold us to the Point of the Articles And further that if there were not a necessity of his being there he would have withdrawn too But my Lord would not give the Council a latitude to proceed according to the King's Letter for Reparation but he held them to the Point of the Articles Being asked on my Lord of Strafford's Motion Whether he did not tell my Lord Mountnorris when he went out of the Room that he would not speak a word till he came into the Room again and whether he did not do it accordingly and whether he sate bare all the while as a Party and not as a Judge In answer he desired leave to offer to their Lordships that he acquainted their Lordships before that as soon as my Lord Mountnorris was withdrawn my Lord did declare what he the Lord Renula had formerly said But after the Council fell into debate of it he spake not a word nor gave any interruption And he cannot positively say that he sate bare all the while Being asked Whether this was not in the time of full Peace and whether any Rebels or Enemies were in the Kingdom He Answered Certainly it was a time of very full and happy Peace To prove that in discourse concerning this Sentence my Lord said afterwards He would not lose the Honour or Share of it The Earl of Cork being asked to that purpose Answered That all he can remember is that the Sentence was publickly read in the Star-Chamber and my Lord said He would not lose his Share in the Honour of it but he cannot remember the day Lord Viscount Dillon asked to that purpose Answered That he happened to be in the Star-Chamber that day by my Lord of Strafford's Command and carried the Sword that day That the reading of the Sentence he remembers not but the words he heard That the Sentence given against my Lord Mountnorris by the Council of War was a noble and just Sentence and for his part he would not lose his share of the Honour of it The Commons proceeded to that part of the Charge which concerns the execution of another man by Martial Law William Castigatt sworn being asked several questions touching that part particularly Whether he knew one executed by Martial Law and by whom c. He Answered Yes his name was Thomas Denewitt and it was last Summer was two years that he was on the Green when he was
hanged and they were born in the same Town He said he knew not what Martial Law is but he was hanged on one of the bows of a growing Tree and he takes it my Lord of Strafford was present he added that all the Souldiers were there and the Company but knows not whether he was condemned by a Jury or no. And he heard that he was hanged for a quarter of Beef that he and some of the Company took away Lord Viscount Dillon being asked If he knew of the Execution of the said Person whether he was condemned by Martial Law and whether he was a Suitor to my Lady Strafford and could not prevail He Answered He did not know that man by name that was hanged but it was by Martial Law And he and another noble Lord that sits here were Suitors for him to my Lady and she told them she did endeavour but could not prevail for a Pardon That it was a little before the 500 men went to Carlisle out of Ireland That he was not present at the Trial but saw him hanged on the Green at Dublin on a Tree and knows not his name and he conceives the Provost-Marshal or the Provost-Marshal's Son did Execution for they were there both of them That the Cause was double as he heard for which he was condemned for flying from his Colours and for stealing some Beef Patrick Gough sworn and asked to the same purpose as before He Answered That he remembers about the time of the 500 Souldiers sending to Carlisle and the Army in Dublin this man was executed by the Provost-Marshal's Son and on a Tree and that time two other Souldiers were whipt The voice of the Report was He was hanged for a quarter of Beef and running away from his Colours Lord Renula asked what Answer was given when a motion was made that this man should be tried at Law He Answered That he was warned to come to a Marshalls Court and the Messenger came so late that he came not timely enough to give his Vote in the Court That he came when the matter was fully heard and having done his duty to the Lord-Deputy sate down behind the Chair That there were some controverted Opinions concerning the condemnation of the man The Lord-Deputy was pleased to desire his Opinion and stated the Evidence to him as it appeared before the Court which to his remembrance stood thus The party was accused to have stollen some Beef and charged to have run from his Colours which was the reason of the parties being called thither as he conceived And it was thus coming to his Lieutenant to demand his Pay if he be not mistaken and if he be he should be glad to be certified by any the Officer said He had it not then he desired to be Discharged Then go and be hanged said the Officer and thereupon left his Colours yet left his Musket with his Corporal That for the Beef it seems the Fact was clear that this was when a Regiment of Foot was to be transmitted to Carlisle and were at Dublin attending their Transportation hence That he the said Lord Renula was desired to inform himself of the particular charged upon his going from his Colours The thing in his excuse was The Officer's bidding him go and be hanged and leaving his Musket That therefore he the Lord Renula did the rather advise he should be tried by the Law than in that Court That he doth not conceive the Sentence was made certain before he came in and if he be not mistaken there is a Noble Peer of this House sate in that Council and he is sure that he the said Peer offered Reasons why he should not die for that Fact for he heard him argue it so and that is my Lord Conway Lord Conway was sworn and asked his knowledge of this He Answered That he hath been asked of this heretofore and therefore is something more in his memory than otherwise it would have been for he had almost forgot it and it is very imperfectly in memory He remembers that he was at a Council of War in Dublin that there was a man condemned to be hanged and that it was for such a matter as their Lordships had heard spoken more of it he doth not remember And being further asked Whether any Proposition was made to my Lord of Strafford to have the man referred to a legal Trial or the Execution deferred He Answered He remembers it not And so they closed the Article observing it to be fully proved in both parts of it and that it makes good the general Article of exercising a Tyrannical Government over His Majesties Subjects The Earl of Strafford began his Defence I humbly conceive my Answer must be allowed me if I prove clear of Treason having been debarred of Witnesses My Answer saith That the Deputies have always exercised Martial Law in time of the Armies march and divers Articles for regulating the Army printed according to which divers have been put to death in Peace as well as War That the Lord Mountnorris for breach of two of those Articles was proceeded against by 20 in number and Sentence of Death pronounced wherein I was no Judge and I obtained from His Majesty that no personal hurt befel him but a few days Imprisonment If I had been questioned on my Life for Murder or Felony I might in extremity have feared perhaps but certainly this can by no Law be made Treason for which only I must answer being a Crime of another nature I trust this will appear no Crime or such a one as I hope His Majesty will grant me a Pardon for as He hath done to others I desire to excuse a Mistake in my Answer about the whole Armies being at Dublin and I desire in my Answer to have liberty to rectifie a mistake I humbly desire the Commission may be read under the Broad-Seal whereby I am made General of the Army and Power derived to exercise Marshal-Law which was read and this limitation is in it as to the exercise of Marshal-Law Si opus fuerit And this I observe is according to the practise of all the World in Cases of this Nature That the Army in Ireland is a standing Army in the King's pay and and hath and always had Marshalls Serjeants Majors Generals Provost-Marshalls and other Officers We admit that there is an Army in Ireland that is in pay and distributed in the Country and hath Officers belonging to it The Generals there have from time to time set forth Orders in Print for the Government of the Army and the Officers of it particularly my Lord Wilmott whose Orders are here to be read My Lord Wilmott being examined confest there were Orders made for regulating the Army that he had the Honour to be General four years and that the Articles offered by my Lord of Strafford and by him viewed are attested under his Hand for which he took
and Lord Grandisons and to his best remembrance but he will not peremptorily say it of my Lord Chichesters Being asked of the Earl of Bathes motion whether he hath known them to proceed upon Petition for matters of Land He Answered He never knew any Being asked on Mr. Maynards motion whether they were Orders of Reference or by consent He Answered He remembers one more particularly and it was an Order of my Lord of Faulklands of reference to my Lord Angier that was Master of the Rolls and was for a Debt Being asked on my Lord of Straffords motion whether Sir Paul Davis Clerk of the Council do not ordinarily examine on Oath and thereupon Causes come to publication He Answered The Clerk of the Council hath a Commission for taking Oath and wheresoever the Deputy requires he is to take Oath but whether de facto he took Oath on those former Orders he remembers not And whether he takes Oath in things determined by the Deputy alone he knows nothing of it But it is the common course of proceedings when there is an Order for an Attachment an Oath is taken of course that the party is in contempt Being asked on Mr. Whitlocks motion how anciently Commission hath been granted to the Clerk of the Council to take an Oath He Answered He doth not know but knoweth that since he had the Honour to sit at the Board they have had them and that is 12 or 13 years Being asked whether he hath known in matters of Equity or Title of Land any determination by any other Deputy alone And whether my Lord of Strafford hath not done it in many Cases He answered to the first That he doth not remember any particular Case of it To the second That he never knew my Lord of Strafford with his Remembrance meddle with matters of Law but for matters of Equity to his Remembrance he hath And this my Lord of Strafford confessed this being in the Court of Requests is to the Chancery To prove that the Clerks of the Council have power to examine on Oath an Order was read to the Lord Chancellor from the Lord Faulkland for drawing up a Commission to enable Sir William Usher for taking Affidavits and ministring Oaths in all Causes wherein the Lord Deputy or the Board c. His Lordship came to shew that the Instructions were so much mistaken that they were never observed by the Deputy Judges of Assize Presidents of Provincial c. nor could the poor Irish be debarred from remedy on Petitions without occasioning an universal out-cry being not acquainted with Legal forms and beggarly and the man that came against my Lord Mountnorris was in forma Pauperis To prove this my Lord of Straffords Book of Entries was mentioned and an Order of my Lord Faulklands made in Iune 1629. which is after the Instructions being in 1622. and being affirmed by my Lord Wilmott to be under my Lord Faulklands hand it was read Containing a Petition which set forth the Petitioners disturbance in his Possession of certain Lands by Sir Iames Fitzgerard contrary to a former Order and assaulting and beating the Petitioner and his Tenants c. And my Lord of Faulklands Warrant thereupon for Sir Iames his appearance to Answer the Contempt and for the Sheriffs keeping the Petitioner in possession He produced another Order of my Lord of Faulklands August 20. 1626. being for Attaching divers persons that had not paid Provisions for the Deputies Houshold He produced another Order made on Walter Dennotts Petition October 1624. for direction to certain Debtors to pay some moneys due Being a Warrant to examine the truth of the Plaintiffs demands and a Command to the Debtors to pay what 's due or give better Security else to appear to shew cause to the contrary the same being grounded upon Letters out of England in the Petitioners behalf He produced an Order of my Lord of Corke and Lord of Ely affirmed by the Lord Corke to be under his hand on Petition of Henry Iawant The Order being a Reference to the Lord Primate and to take Order for the Petitioners Relief as by a former Order of Reference was directed And whereas it may be objected that these were in Church Causes or Plantation Causes His Lordship observed That these Orders were made by the Deputy and Justices alone without the Council though by the Instructions the Deputy ought not to meddle with such Causes without the Council He then offered to shew that this Practice of hearing business on Paper Petitions is used by the Presidents in their Provincial Courts and by the Judges in their Circuits by Commissions from the Deputy whence his Lordship observed That if the Deputies have Power to Authorize they have likewise Power to Execute and he offered to this purpose my Lord Ranulagh's Answer at Council-Board under Mr. Mewtis his hand Here the Manager observed That my Lord of Strafford is charged with Exorbitant using of the Law and cannot be justified with others breaking of the Law besides it is neither in the Charge nor in his Answer My Lord of Strafford answered That he offered this only to shew that he is no Innovator of the Law further than others before him and to shew that the Instructions were mistaken in that point and could not be observed nor can they without much detriment to the Commonwealth yea that they have broken them and that he only hath observed them And so this matter was laid aside as not fully pertinent to the Charge His Lordship in the next place observed That as the Case stands with the Government and People of Ireland there is a necessity that this Power that hath been thus at all times in the Deputies should still remain there for relief of the poorer sort of People who are not able to undergo the long Circuit of Legal Proceedings nor are acquainted with them and must be drawn to it by Degrees and that the Plaintiff in this Cause was a Suitor in forma pauperis That it is a great assistance to the Merchants where they may recover their Debts suddenly and not lose their occasions and their benefit by increase of Trade That some Reports being raised as if he had neglected the poorer sort of People and not given Redress as former Deputies have done he advertised it over to His Majesty and fully informed Him of the Proceedings and Instructions and desired His Majesties Pleasure which was declared by a Letter under His Majesties Signet received October 6. the Ninth year of the King and to himself directed which was read Wherein recital is made of the Instructions 1622. and particularly in the point of Judicature by the Deputies That it is necessary to uphold such Power especially for relief of the poorer sort there as formerly had been used And Power is thereby to him given notwithstanding any former Directions Proclamation or Restraint to hear and determine such Causes as shall be brought before him
to the destruction of the Law he flies to the Kings Prerogative for shelter That to mention the Kings Prerogative in the face of the Peers of the Realm and in presence of all the Commons when he is charged with an Exorbitant proceeding to the Subversion of the Laws is but to cast a Scandal upon the Kings Prerogative and to make it have a worse relish whereas the Law supports the Kings Prerogative and the Subject supports it When his Answer is charged not to be according to Truth he casts a Gloss upon it from the easiness of his being mistaken whereas when he is able to justifie it he glories in it as that whereto he must stand or fall That the Letters Patents which my Lord of Strafford produces rise in Judgment against him for the King hath trusted him ad custodiendas leges Regni and therefore if he hath broken through them he hath broken his Trust. He says It is strange the exceeding of Jurisdiction should be laid to his charge as Treason He is charged with the Subverting of the Law and that 's more than the Exceeding of a Power He read the Instructions to warrant his Act and by these the Commons desire to be judged whether they do not in the Negative say there shall be no such Proceeding before the Deputy and yet he will imply there have been proceedings to the contrary which we cannot see He justifies his Proceedings by former Deputies and hath produced Henry Dillon who hath seen several Proceedings in Sir Henry Bagnalls time and others where Orders have been made by the Deputy alone but the Orders themselves are not brought whereas if they were looked on and consideration had what results out of them their Lordships would not have suffered them to be read without Attestation that they were true Copies But now whether they be entred or no or what other Proceedings there were the Witness doth not know and therefore they are no Evidence nor in truth ought to be offered And the Witness being asked what the Orders were he says one was a Reference and whether Witnesses were examined he says he doth not know He produces my Lord Dillon and we offer to be adjudged by him for he says He knew not any Deputy before my Lord of Strafford that hath intermeddled with matters of Land except in Plantation and Church Causes and this Order is charged to be made by him alone He pretends this is a Court and a Prerogative of the Sword We know not whether my Lord of Strafford intends to keep it by force but whereas he produceth a Commission for giving Oath to the Clerk of the Council this Commission needed not if it were a Court for the Court it self would give an Oath and whereas he mentions it to be in the nature of the Court of Requests we would gladly know whether there be not Authority in the Judge to give an Oath He produces several Orders in my Lord of Faulkland's time The first is expresly for Plantation Lands and there was no determination in Equity or otherwise The second Order he produced in my Lord Faulkland's time was a meer Green-cloth Case and nothing to this purpose The third Order produced was in a business recommended from England to my Lord of Faulkland and such Causes as are out of the Instructions excepted The Order in the Lord of Corke's time was but an Order of Reference to the Archbishop and a Reference is no Determination a private person may do as much So that we observe nothing hath been offered to prove that a Deputy alone hath determined matter of Possession and in this we rest with confidence That none ever did before himself and shall therefore desire the Examination of some Privy-Counsellors He produced a Letter from His Majesty to proceed in such Causes But if by Law it ought not to be then a Letter and Authority derived thereby is void and warrants not Proceeding in the Subject the Letter was as just as might be being obtained on his Information to whose Government and Trust His Majesty had committed the Kingdom and if he mis-inform he must Answer it And the Letter is written with caution giving Authority to proceed in matter of Equity as former Deputies had done and if it be not proved that his Predecessors had used such Proceedings where is his Authority He says he hath proceeded according to the direction of the Kings Letter that is he never determined Title of Land but in Equity and when such Causes have come to him he hath referred them to Law which we are forced to disprove that by offering it under his own hand that whereas a Nobleman of the Realm my Lord of Baltinglas had mortgaged to Sir Robert Parkhurst for 3000 l. Land of a 1000 l. year when Sir Robert had Title at Law and might as Mortgagor have entred after the day past Sir Robert prefers a Petition to my Lord of Strafford himself and he without the Council determines the Possession and takes it from the Mortgagee and afterwards he purchases the Lands himself and letts them for 680 and odd pounds a year For my Lord Mountnorris his Imprisonment the Manager said That when his distressed Lady the Mother of Twelve Children Petitioned His Majesty declaring the great Distress her Husband suffered by the Tyrannical Power exercised over them His Majesty like a Gracious Prince referred it to the consideration of the Deputy That on submission he should deliver him out of Prison But when the poor Lady presented it with Tears in her Eyes and cast her self at his Feet though there was a Reference from His Majesty yet he that would at another time shelter himself under the Kings Prerogative refuses to give so much Respect as to entertain it and when the eldest Son came refused to accept it Another of the Managers added That whereas there is a restriction in the Kings Letter That the Earl of Strafford should not meddle with any thing in other Courts they would shew that after two Decrees in a Court my Lord hath on a Petition Decreed quite contrary and it was no Beggars Cause but a Knights and 5000 l. value That to the Kings Letter they will give all Reverence But if my Lord of Strafford had found such a constant practice to be proved he needed no Letter to set up the Jurisdiction that was in him before That this Letter under the Signet can give no Countenance against an Act of Parliament which Orders That the Deputy shall not meddle with Causes but remit them to their proper Courts and no other Exposition can be given of the saving of the Kings Prerogative but only a reservation of His Liberty to Sue in any Courts And for him to seek by mis-information to procure a Letter from His Majesty for a Power not warrantable by Law he conceives it an Abuse of His Majesty and that makes his fault the greater and he instanced in the Marquess of Dublin who for procuring
Letters Patents under the Great Seal to exercise a Power against Law was complained of in Parliament and had Judgment for it among other things of High Treason They proceeded to Proof And first The Earl of Corke being asked whether before my Lord of Straffords time he hath known the Deputy or Justices alone determine any matter of Land in Equity or otherwise He Answered He remembers not any except in cases of the Church and Plantation The Lord Ranulagh being asked to that point Answered Never any to his knowledge having been of the Table two and twenty years Sir Adam Loftus being asked to the same point Answered He remembers not any having been a Privy-Counsellor 20 years The Lord Mountnorris being asked to that point Answered He never knew any having been a Privy-Counsellor since 14 Iac. and lived in Ireland 38 years That he was there all the time of my Lord Chichester or very near and was so acquainted with his proceedings that he dare engage himself for all he is worth that the Lord Chichester never put any such Order under his hand The Earl of Bath Sworn and asked to that point Answered That he hath often heard the Deputy in cases of Debt for relief of poor men hath proceeded alone but in cases of Land he never heard of any To take off Henry Dillon's Testimony the Manager alledged That he had been Sentenced at the Council-Board for speaking untruths My Lord of Strafford desired the Exception might not be made some Exceptions by him made to Witnesses against him being not admitted and that there might be unum pondus una mensura The Manager Answered In eodem genere Mali. This Exception is not for Extortion or collateral matters but for Perjury Thereupon his Acknowledgment was read wherein he confesses he had highly transgressed against the Honour of His Majesty and the Board in presuming to declare apparent untruths And that such an Acknowledgment was made was testified by Sir Adam Loftus and likewise by the Lord Dillon who shewed their Lordships the occasion thereof To the matter of my Lord Mountnorris his Imprisonment it was offered under my Lord of Straffords own hand to shew that it was partly upon the Sentence December 24. 1636. My Lord of Strafford not denying it to be his hand it was read being a Reference upon my Lord Mountnorris his Petition and in substance as followeth That for the Petitioners restraint more than twelve months he hath no body to blame but himself that hath all that space lain under a deserved censure of the Council of War and stood in Contempts and trifled with the Court of Castle-Chamber That His Majesties removal of the Sentence hath been often signified but never sued forth That the Petitioner did to the same effect Petition the Lord Deputy in May last and therefore all the Answer that for the present can be given is that his most gracious Pardon seeks no man nor can His Majesty remit all of that Sentence to be applied to the Petitioners benefit till by his humble suit he procured His Majesties Pardon under the Great Seal c. which taking the usual way and humbly acknowledging the justness of that Sentence he may have c. A Petition was then read directed to the Earl of Strafford from my Lord Mountnorris Praying a Warrant for a Pardon under the Great Seal according to the Law and the purport of His Majesties directions if his Lordship shall conceive His Majesties Letters on which the Lord Mountnorris relied as sufficient did not amount to a Legal Pardon Then was read my Lord of Straffords Answer Dublin Ianuary 30. 1636. When the Petitioner shall prefer his Petition for the said Pardon acknowledging the justness of the Sentence pronounced against him by the Council of War we shall take his Request into our further consideration Wentworth Whence one of the Managers observed That the King directs a Pardon to be drawn and till the Sentence be acknowledged to be just no consideration shall be taken and that the Preamble of the Pardon recites as much and he would not suffer it to be Sealed till this Acknowledgment passed Then was produced the Lady Mountnorris her Petition to His Majesty referred to the Lord Strafford Mr. Anslowe Sworn attested the truth of the Copy and it was read Setting forth her Sorrow on behalf of her Husband suffering in Honour Health and Imprisonment for a word mis-interpreted and still pursued in the Castle-Chamber and humbly praying a Command for his coming into England c. His Majesties Reference to my Lord of Strafford Iuly 18. 1636. His Majesty is pleased That on such a Submission as the Lord Deputy shall approve of he shall have his Liberty to come into England wherein the Lord Deputy is to take notice and to give Order therein accordingly Mr. Anslowe being asked whether this was brought to the Deputy by the Lady Mountnorris and whether he did not reject it He Answered That he was by when my Lady Mountnorris presented the Petition she was humbly on her Knees to desire my Lord of Strafford to receive it And he refused absolutely to receive it from her They then produced the Order in a Cross Suit in t Robert Parkhurst Plaintiff and the Lord Baltinglasse al. Defendants Et e contra The Order was read whereby certain Lands for 3000 l. paid at several times to the Viscount and 300 l. more to be paid afterwards were setled with Sir Robert Parkhurst William Brettergh Sworn was Interrogated touching my Lord Baltinglasse his Possession of the said Lands and his dispossessing thereof He Answered That he was Sollicitor for prosecuting of this Cause and made Defence of it in behalf of my Lord of Baltinglasse being then in England But at the time of the Decree his Lordship was come over That his Lordship never made Answer to it but when the Cause came to hearing my Lord of Strafford ordered the Possession of the Land against my Lord Baltinglasse and the Possession before was in one Grimble who was Tenant And that he could speak many other things concerning the carriage of it Mr. Glyn desired the Witness might be examined touching my Lord of Straffords purchase of those Lands and offered the Articles whereby my Lord of Strafford leased the Land for 28 years and at 666 l. per annum My Lord of Strafford confest thereupon that he had it but it was in Trust for a Noble Person The Manager observed That whether it was for a Friend or himself it is equal for a man will do a courtesie for his Friend as soon as for himself And so he concluded his Reply hoping that their Lordships were satisfied that he hath introduced an Innovation and being so that he hath exercised a Tyrannical Power over the Estates of His Majesties Subjects To such parts thereof as was new matter my Lord of Strafford replied in substance as followeth
I desire that these matters that come on me suddenly and being no part of my Charge may not stick with Your Lordships In the business of my Lord of Baltinglasse I remember little only that my Lord Baltinglasse had forfeited his Estate to Sir Robert Parkhurst who had a clear and free Estate in the Land by Fine and Recovery and divers Conveyances The Lord Baltinglasse desired me to take the hearing of the Cause to see if I could procure from Sir Robert Parkhurst a further sum of money The Order was made with both their likings and my Lord Baltinglasse was content to perfect the whole Estate Sir Robert Parkhurst was in Possession at that time not the Lord Baltinglasse That seeing no cause to relieve him in Equity they left him to seek relief in other places That afterwards an Agreement was made 300 l. received by the Lord Baltinglasse and after 100 l. more got to be given and so there was a full Conveyance and Acquittance from Father and Son That himself hath no Interest in it but only of Trust to anothers use For that which was offered against the Jurisdiction the Proofs are Negative and contradict not what I have offered And if I might shew my Lord of Faulklands Book of Entries I could produce as much done by my Lord Faulkland alone 1623. Attachments against Body and Goods Hearings between Parties and Parties Warrants for Distresses Warrants to the Sheriff for Possession of Lands Injunctions to Judges of Assize For my Lord Mountnorris his Imprisonment I desire Your Lordships to observe that His Majesties Reference is That I shall not set him at liberty without a Submission so that he may thank himself for his Restraint For my Carriage to the Lady Mountnorris at the delivering the Petition I desire Your Lordships to hear a Witness Who being asked to that purpose Answered That he was present when my Lady Mountnorris was once with my Lord but knows not whether that were the time in question It was about 1636. That he was present when her Son delivered one before which my Lord would receive but her Son would not deliver the Reference but a Copy being so Commanded by his Lady Mother That when my Lady delivered it on her Knees my Lord told her She had done him the greatest Injury she could devise and that if she had broke his Head she should have pleased him better Being asked whether my Lord rejected the Petition He Answered That he cannot certainly remember what was done with it but my Lord said he could not do any thing on a Copy The Lord Viscount Dillon being asked to the same point Answered He was by when my Lady Mountnorris came to my Lord to the Covent-Garden with a Petition in her hand and kneeled to my Lord but my Lord desired her to rise and offering the Petition he said he would not meddle with any Petition at that time That my Lord was going abroad and led her to her Coach in Civility but received not the Petition My Lord of Strafford professeth these things be so long past that he remembers them not well nor whether she offered a Copy the second time The Manager did here observe That he acknowledged the Civility of my Lord of Strafford in this point but there is one point sticks with him as higher than any offered and then their Lordships may think he goes high enough That there hath been proved my Lord of Straffords Tyrannical Proceedings on the Life and Fortune of my Lord Mountnorris One step more the Manager said he had heard off and that was his Soul and that sticks with him more than any thing else He kept him in Prison till he should acknowledge the justness of a Sentence which in his Heart he abhorred and held unjust That all former Tyrants when they would proceed against a man have found out two false Witnesses but when a man shall be made a false Witness against himself it is much more Tyrannical And he wished this Design had kept only in Ireland and had not come into England which he hopes shall be so no more And so after a short Reply to the two particulars last mentioned the Manager closed the 6th Article conceiving that it remains as was offered That my Lord of Strafford hath determined things contrary to the Commission and Authority obtained from His Majesty The Manager added That for the present the Commons will pass by the 7th Article and proceed to the 8th concerning Arbitrary Power over the Estates of the Kings Subjects And of that the last part only concerning the Lady Hibbott But my Lord of Strafford professing his disability to endure the Toil and that he was ready to drop down in respect of his much sickness and weakness and desiring their Lordships to turn the case inward and to see in the Closet of their own Hearts if there be not reason that being upon his Life his Honour and Children and all he hath he should not be prest further and setting forth how the rest of the day after his going hence is disposed of The House was Adjourned till next day The Fourth day Thursday March 26. 1641. THE Eighth Article The Charge THat the said Earl of Strafford upon a Petition of Sir John Gifford Knight the first day of February in the said Thirteenth Year of his Majesties Reign without any Legal Process made a Decrée or Order against Adam Uiscount Loftus of Ely a Peer of the said Realm of Ireland and Lord Chancellor of Ireland and did cause the said Uiscount to be imprisoned and kept close Prisoner on pretence of Disobedience to the said Decree or Order And the said Earl without any Authority and contrary to his Commission required and commanded the said Lord. Uiscount to yield up unto him the Great Seal of the Realm of Ireland which was then in his Custody by His Majesties Command and imprisoned the said Chancellor for not obeying such his Command And without any Legal Proceeding did in the same Thirtéenth Year imprison George Earl of Kildare a Péer of Ireland against Law thereby to enforce him to submit his Title to the Mannor and Lordship of Castleleigh in the Quéens Country being of great yearly value to the said Earl of Strafford's Will and Pleasure and kept him a year Prisoner for the said cause two months whereof he kept him close-Prisoner and refused to enlarge him notwithstanding His Majesties Letters for his Enlargement to the said Earl of Strafford directed And upon a Petition exhibited in October Anno Domini 1635. by Thomas Hibbots against Dame Mary Hibbots Widow to him the said Earl of Strafford the said Earl of Strafford recommended the said Petition to the Council-Table of Ireland where the most part of the Council gave their Uote and Opinion for the said Lady but the said Earl finding fault herewith caused an Order to be entred against the said Lady and threatned her that if she refused to submit
busie and could not attend it That they desired Hibbots might be examined and they would be bound by his Oath and his Lordship granted a Warrant for it and Mr. Hibbots was almost examined for on a Council-day the Order was given to the Deponent But that very Afternoon my Lord-Deputy came to the Council-Board and as soon as he was sate spake to this effect Here is a business concerning my Lady Hibbots prosecuted with a great deal of Violence that ever I knew and an Order procured for the Examination of the Plaintiff but if any such Order be or Examination taken I will have it damned and this is as much as he can speak Being asked Whether my Lord of Strafford did not threaten my Lady Hibbots with Imprisonment till she performed the Order He Answered That on the first of Ianuary after the Decree my Lord-Deputy sent to the Lady Hibbots house to require her and him the Deponent to attend him which they did accordingly and were called into his Chamber where was Mr. Sambridge of Council with Mr. Hibbots a Sister of the Deponents he the Deponent and some others That my Lord-Deputy asked them Why they would not perfect the Re-assurance according to the Order to which the Deponent offered some Exceptions drawn up by the Council alledging that they could not possibly perform the words of the Order and that they might perform them as near as might be they shewed a course that might be observed but my Lord-Deputy said He would not be cavil'd withall he would have the Order of the Board obeyed and since they juggle thus his Lordship said He would have the Orders drawn up and tendered and that if they will not perform them he will commit them to the Castle where they shall lie a month at that months end he will send for them to the Council-Board and tender them again and if they would not perform them he will Fine them 500 l. and another months Imprisonment and then tender them again and if they will not perform then he will Fine them 1000 l. and another months Imprisonment and so from time to time till they had performed the Orders of the Board Being asked Whether these Lands were not purchased in the Name of Sir Robert Meredith and others and to whose use He Answered That he hath the Deeds of the Land himself and what the Dates are he doth not remember But he knows the Lands were purchased in the Name of Sir Robert Meredith and others but he cannot speak to whose use but from Sir Robert Meredith's own mouth for when he the Deponent paid 7000 l. to him he the Deponent was telling him the great advantage he made by this Bargain In truth saith Sir Robert the advantage is nothing to me I receive it with one hand and carry to the Castle with the other That the beginning of December last Sir Robert sent for this Deponent and told him He heard he was coming over to complain of such a matter but desired him the Deponent not to trouble him for he protested seriously he had nothing to do with the business his Name was only used as Sir Philip Persivals and Sir Robert Loftus it was meerly to my Lord Lieutenants use The Manager observed That when their Lordships have heard this they will not wonder at the next Witness they shall produce that a Supream Judge should perswade to continue a Suit which he would have withdrawn and that notwithstanding the major part of the Board was against the Petitioner yet the Order was drawn for the Petitioner Mr. Hoy being asked to the matter of the Vote He said He was withdrawn when they gave their Vote but a noble Member of the Board came to his Mother to Supper and named to him the Deponent every man that Voted for and against her that he writ down their Names at that time and there were twelve Votes for her and nine against her that he the Deponent was afterwards informed by another then at Board that the major part of the Board went for his Mother Thomas Hibbots was sworn and being asked Whether there was not a Petition preferred to the Lord-Lieutenant there for breaking off the Bargain between himself and the Lady Hibbots and answered before he knew of it He Answered having the Questions dictated by the Clerk being an old deaf man That he caused a Petition to be drawn but not this that this Petition he knew nothing at all of that he wished a Petition to be drawn by Mr. Sambridge but it was only that he might have his money and go into his Country Being asked Whether after the Petition drawn and answered he did go to Sir William Parsons and desired to be quit of the Suit and that he went thereupon to Sir George Ratcliffe and what passed He Answered He sent to Sir William Parsons and he sent him to Sir George Ratcliffe and Sir George Ratcliffe said He should not be dismissed from the Board Being asked Whether my Lord of Strafford did not send for him and tell him 500 l. more in his purse would do him no harm He Answered It is true my Lord wished him to go on with his Suit at the Board and that no man in Ireland should do him wrong and it would do him no harm to carry over 500 l. more Being asked What Sir Robert Meredith said to him He Answered That he would bring all the Writings to him the Deponent Being asked on my Lord of Strafford's Motion what Fees he laid out He Answered 40 l. to Mr. Sambridge and the Manager observed he was preferred presently after the Bargain was executed Being asked What words were used to the Lady Hibbots He Answered That my Lord-Deputy asked Will you not perform the Order If not by such a day I will send you to the Castle and there you shall lie a month and at the months end you shall be brought to the Board and have 500 l. laid on your head and at another months end 1000 l. more Fine and you shall go back to the place again and after that a third months Imprisonment and your Fine increased your Estate I know is very great and if it were ten times bigger than it is I will make it crack To prove that the major part of the Board was against the Plaintiff The Lord Mountnorris was asked Whether he was present at the Council-Table at that time when this Cause was agitated and which way the major part of the Votes went at that time He Answered He was there present and the major Vote went for the Lady and there were 12 or 11 he cannot possibly say which though he took it then perfectly into memory on one side and nine on the other side The Earl of Corke asked to the same purpose He first made an humble Suit to their Lordships that he might not be produced as a Witness against the Prisoner His Reason is That when he hath delivered
many starved it must be occasioned by some other means than this That his Looms should be an occasion of starving so many men he conceives very strange for in truth the value of Cloth made in those Looms in a year which he left his Tenants to manage was not as he remembers above 16 or 1700 l. and if their Lordships consider the value of the Yarn with the Labour they would wonder the making of such a quantity in a year should starve so many thousands It is very true he said he 's sorry for that Remonstrance read of the Commons House in Ireland thinking he had merited a better opinion in that Kingdom but howsoever they have been informed he doubts not but when things are shewed them more clearly than they have been hitherto he shall have their good opinion still he never in truth doing or saying any thing in all his life but with very clear and faithful intentions to the good and prosperity of that Common-wealth and Kingdom his Lordship added That he had some little fortune amongst them not great indeed nothing near that which is reported hardly the fifth part but something he had there honestly and justly come by and for that reason he had cause to wish well to the Kingdom and it grieved him extreamly to hear such a Remonstrance read there would be a time he hoped when he should have means to give them better satisfaction but it is but a charge and cannot under favour be the proof of a Charge being only received by information of witnesses and no Oath being given by the Commons-House he conceived it could not be made a proof against him but the truth of the Charge comes to be examined for the Remonstrance says that these things will be proved by 20000. To which he can say nothing but that he is infinitely sorry he should be so mistaken in that Kingdom where to his best understanding his Conscience tells him he hath deserved very well with modesty be it spoken his Lordship added of them all and desired to do Justice amongst them and there would come a time when he should be better understood as well there as here he hoped For the testimony of Mr. Fitzgarret he speaks nothing of knowledge but what he hath been informed and heard and what hath been credibly reported to him and those are no proofs to be judicially taken as he conceived nothing being by Mr. Fitzgarret spoken but by report and their Lordships have heard this reported as well as he yet knew not whether it be true further than is proved So he concluded where he began something may look like an oppression in them that did execute it but nothing as to himself and the rest of the Counsel who issued the Proclamation on just and warrantable grounds and according to that power they had from the King which he conceived was a full and clear acquittal of him humbly submitting to their Lordships better Judgements of this Article so far forth as it amounts in any kind to convince him of High Treason To which Mr. Maynard made reply in substance as followeth And first he observed That my Lord of Strafford was still striking on the same string here said he is no Treason though something tending to oppression and so at this rate he can never want an answer for if this be not in this particular as high and wilful an overthrow of the fundamental Rules and Justice of the Kingdom as can be imagined I appeal to your Lordships and that is it wherewith he is charged not as if this singly would amount to Treason And Whereas his Lordship says his intention was good if when an oppression of High Justice is committed it be enough to say he had a good intention it is a good defence to take away mens Goods and apply them to his own use and so this being practis'd by him universally on a whole Kingdom may be excused by a good intention But God knows the heart your Lordships are Judges of his actions and oppressions He says the Proclamation was a Temporary Law to take away Goods break open Houses forbid and annihilate Contracts this he says in the face of the Kingdom so that there cannot be better evidence given against him than comes from his own mouth for that which is put upon him is That he would erect a Government that depends meerly upon Will and take away that which is obliged to Laws To say a Proclamation is a Temporary Law is to make a Law as long as it pleases them that award the Proclamation to continue for when shall it have an end but by the pleasure of them that send it forth He would excuse himself that he hath gone in good company Did the Commons insist on this as a single misdemeanor my Lord might say he is not the only man that deserves punishment but he cannot say but that he is the Principal man and indeed and in effect the sole man as it will appear in the answer to the rest They are too blame that follow his misguidance but he is not innocent that draws others into such actions with him Mr. Maynard observed the nature of the Proclamation it was not to appoint a regulation but to take away the Subjects Goods neither giving them time to vend the Commodities in their hands nor to depart from that if it were an ill usage but forthwith as soon as the Proclamation was out the Goods must be seized because they did not doe the things they could not doe He saith the Execution is nothing to himself but to his Agents Surely he that will command unjust and evil things is not a whit less guilty because he hath Ministers that will apply themselves to his pleasure to execute unlawful Commands He commands they execute it and when they had executed it they bring it to his Looms that is to his profit He says it was recalled after two years or thereabouts but your Lordships may remember on what misfortune and cruelty it was recalled the tumults the stirs the oppressions it did produce and his recalling it after two years makes him not innocent before when 1000 or 2000 or 3000 had perished by the oppression of it he was not innocent because 10000 or 12000 did not perish it was too long kept on foot and he that doth unlawful things in so great a measure is not to be excused because he cannot bring them wholly to pass For that 's all can be said He could go no further and therefore he leaves it off He says his Warrant is not amiss but it is extreamly amiss for the Minister should advertise the State touching the Subjects Conformities but my Lord of Strafford will have them presently enter the House and seize the Goods the Proclamation puts them on it but the Warrants command Justices of Peace and all Ministers of Justice to come in and countenance this cruelty and when they did not conform to it
till April following and he thinks till Publication was granted Lorky being Sworn and Interrogated touching my Lord of Esmonds restraint till the passing of Publication He Answered That when my Lord of Esmond heard that my Lord of Strafford had Incerted him into a Bill amongst other Defendants in the Star-Chamber my Lord desired leave to come to England to make his Defence in that Cause and to appear in it in person because without his Lordships leave he could not come over by vertue of this Proclamation My Lord sollicited his leave first by a Petition Aug. 1638. afterwards by several Letters some he the Deponent carried to his Lordship who still denied leave and would not suffer my Lord of Esmond to come over till after Publication was granted in the Cause which he conceives was in April my Lord of Esmond having sollicited from April 1638 till Aprill following Richard Wade Interrogated What my Lord Lieutenant said to him concerning my Lord of Esmonds coming over He Answered That on delivery of the Kings Letter to him when he looked on it in the evening the out-side said my Lord of Strafford is Secretary Crookes hand and to morrow morning if you attend me you shall have an Answer That the next morning he the Deponent came to the Secretary Carr who told his Lordship The Deponent was there That my Lord sent for him the Deponent to his Study and said What needs my Lord of Esmond be so importunate for he can do nothing there but his Attorney and Agent may do it Indeed said he the Deponent My Lord intends only to go over to get a Commission to justifie his Innocency Why then saith my Lord of Strafford I will not give way he shall have no Commission but what is out already and if he have any Commission it is but Negative And Mr. Palmer observed That by this meanes my Lord of Esmond came to be Sentenced and Mr. Maynard added That so might the most innocent Man Lord Roche Sworn and Interrogated Whether he did not demand a Licence and was deny'd and in what suit he thought to be relieved He Answered That he prayed my Lord to give him leave and he deny'd him That his occasion to come over was about an Information preferred against him half a year before in the Star-Chamber conceiving that there were some intentions against him that tended much to his prejudice by my Lord Deputy and Lord President of Munster who were the occasion of the Information as he conceived and that he intended to come over hoping he might do something with the King and their Lordships and when he demanded Licence his Lordship coming to take Ship and he the Deponent conducting him he deny'd it him the Deponent and the Suit was not pursued in five or six months and till my Lord went over nothing was said of it which was five or six months more My Lord of Strafford desired he might be Asked Whether he was not then Prisoner in the Castle he alleadging That he was in prison for divers great Misdemeanors and being Interrogated accordingly He Answered That he was not a Prisoner in half a year after till my Lord came out of England nor was the Cause followed in five or six Months after he propounded a Licence to his Lordship which was the day his Lordship went Aboard The next case offered is the case of Dermond Mac Carty who had a Suit against him several times dismissed in a Court of Justice which my Lord Deputy took afterwards into determination himself and made an Order against him in the Cause that was so diminished Mac-Carty Grandchild to him against whom the Order was made who was not bound by the Order having no Land nor Office in Ireland and so not bound by the Proclamation desired leave to come into England to Complain indeed of this Injustice though he pretended it was for his Education but was deny'd by my Lord and by others in his absence because my Lord had deny'd him before The Petition subscribed by my Lord Deputy himself was Read my Lord Acknowledged it to be under his own hand To the Right Honourable the Lord Viscount Wentworth c. THe humble Petition of Dermond Mac-Carty showing That your Petitioner for his Private Occasions specially for better Breeding and Education is desirous to Travel into the Realm of England He therefore most humbly prayeth your Lordship will be pleased to Licence and Dispence with his Iourney thither And he will ever pray c. Dublin-Castle 28 Iune 1637. FOr Our Reasons best known to Our Selves We think it not fit to Grant the Petitioners Request but do rather hereby expresly inhibit and forbid him to Transport himself into England or any part beyond the Seas without Our Licence first had in that behalf And of these Directions the Petitioner is required not only to take notice but also obey the same as he will answer the contrary at his utmost Peril On a second Petition preferred by Mac-Carty because my Lord Deputy had refused to give him Licence Sir Christopher Wainsford did also refuse his Licence The Petition and the Answer thereunto purporting to that effect were Read Iames Nash Sworn and Interrogated Whether the occasion of these Petitions was not to Complain of that Decree made by my Lord Deputy in a Cause that had in a Court of Justice been dismissed He Answered That he knew the passages of all the Causes having been a Sollicitor and Agent for the Father of Mac-Carty and waiting on their occasions in Dublin That after the obtaining of two Dismissions in the Suit my Lord did Order and Decree for Sir Iames Craig 5496 l. against Mac-Carty And on this Decree an Order to Dispossess him of all his Fathers Estate and he being Banish'd into a Foreign Part the young Man for fear would not come in and appear but hoping to have Redress in England did Petition in this matter in desire and hope to have Redress in that dismission made by the Lord Strafford Mr. Palmer Opened the Case of Parry his Fine and Imprisonment who is mentioned in the Article That he was Servant to the late Lord Chancellor was Examined before my Lord Deputy of some things that concerned his Master and had Answered so much as it pleased my Lord to require of him That after this being used to follow my Lord Chancellors occasions my Lord Deputy to prevent his coming over referred him to further Examination before the Iudges whom he attended five or six dayes but there was nothing to examine him upon for he had delivered all that was required as fully as he knew That finding my Lord Chancellors occasions very urgent he came into England and as soon as he came hither it seems he was followed with directions thence for by Warrant from Secretary Cook he was apprehended by a Messenger and the Warrant expresses it that he was one that came over without Licence That he was
turned over to Mr. Ralton my Lords Agent and must give Bond to repair and make his appearance in Ireland Before that Bond was discharged he did return and after his return he Petitioned to be Discharged of this Bond he conceiving he might come over without Licence having no Estate nor Office in Ireland yet notwithstanding he was Sentenced Fined and Imprisoned It is true the Cause expressed in the Sentence is Because he went away not being Examined and the Sentence expresses That he is not Fined for coming without Licence but because he came away without being Examined Henry Parry Sworn was Interrogated Whether the Copy showed unto him was a true Copy of Secretary Cooks Warrant He Answered That he examined it with the Original The Warrant was Read THese are in His Majesties Name to will and Command you to make your present repair to any place where you shall understand of the of Henry Parry Gent. lately come out of Ireland without Licence and by Vertue hereof to take him into Custody and keep him safe till you hear from me Greenwich 20 June 1633. To Thomas Welch Messenger of the Kings Chamber Henry Parry being Interrogated What were the Proceedings with him about his Examinations in Ireland before his coming over And What was the whole Process of the business He Answered That 21 April 1638 my Lord of Ely then Lord Chancellor his Lord and Master was Committed to the Castle of Dublin and no sooner Committed but he the Deponent was sent for to the Council Board and an Oath Administred to him by the Clerk of the Council on my Lord of Straffords direction That thereupon his Lordship Interrogated him Where the Great Seal was He answered his Lordship That he knew not where it was unless it was with my Lord of Ely And after his Lordship had Examined him to that he Commanded him to attend the Iudges the next day to be Examined on some Papers of his the Deponents which his Lordship had seized and brought to the Council 〈◊〉 and thereupon he was dismissed at night That Monday next this being Saturday he attended the Iudges alone to be Examined and attended not only that day but five dayes more from thence to Saturday That on Saturday my Lord of Ely told him He had occasion to send him over into England and desired him to go That he did come away with some Letters from his Lordship to some of his Lordships Friends here And as soon as he came here with Instructions from his Lordship the Instructions were given to his Lordships Friends to Sollicite His Sacred Majesty for his Relief and Enlargement out of Prison and he continued a matter of two Months or thereabouts and on that one Thomas Welsh by Vertue of Secretary Cookes Warrant attached him and kept him in Restraint about three weeks At the end of three weeks he was sent for to Mr. Ralton who told him It was Secretary Cookes pleasure he should enter into Bond to go into Ireland else he should be sent by a Messenger That he the Deponent Answered He could not pay a Messenger but if he could not get leave to stay he would enter into Bond to go to Ireland That Mr. Ralton took a Bond to appear the 10 th or 12 th of August following this being in Iuly 1638. That he came into Ireland according to the Tenor of his Bond. That my Lord of Strafford being to go into the Country he presented himself before his Lordship in the Gallery at the Castle and acquainted his Lordship that he was there to attend his Lordship according to the Tenor of the Bond. His Lordship Asked him Who took his Bond he acquainted his Lordship That it was his Agent Mr. Ralton His Lordship Asked What Warrant had Mr. Ralton to take Bond of you He the Deponent acquainted his Lordship He did not know any Warrant he had but he said He had direction from Secretary Cook My Lord Asked further Where he took the Bond if at the Signet-Office No said he the Deponent It was at his own house My Lord Answered That he the Deponent might do well to attend at the next sitting of the Council-Board And that he the Deponent going away his Lordship called him back and said Methinks Mr. Parry you are much Sun-burned the weather is very hot in England He the Deponent Answered again The weather is very fair His Lordship Interrogated him Where my Lady Moore was and How she did He the Deponent acquainted his Lordship She was in England Here my Lord of Strafford interrupted him Asking If this was to the Business but having direction to go on He Added That my Lord Asked him Why he did not stay abroad to help my Lady Moore to spread abroad her Malice against him my Lord of Strafford to which he the Deponent said He could say nothing and so was dismissed That afterwards he attended with a Petition of my Lord of Ely's and that my Lord Asked him Where his Petition was He said He had not any but presented his Person His Lordship told him That it was Councel-Board-day for Petitions and wished him to come some other time yet after was called back and had an Answer to the Petition That the Tuesday following as he takes it he appeared before his Lordship again without any Petition not knowing any cause he had to Petition That the next day after he Petition'd and on Reading his Petition the Constable of the Castle was called and thereupon he the Deponent was Committed and Censured as he was told the next day 500 l. That his Lordship Declared the Order of the Board That he the Deponent was Fined 500 l. Bound to his Good Behaviour Committed to the Castle of Dublin and to Acknowledge his Offence at the Board and to Mr. Ralton and there he continued in Prison and was utterly Ruined Being Asked Whether he was heard to Answer in the Cause or Whether he was Examined after his Return He Answered That he never put in Answer in Writing nor was there any Petition against him but only his own Petition nor further Required to be Examined from that day to this Being Asked How much of his Fine he paid He Answered That before he could see his Order he was fain to pay Sir Paul Davis 45 l. and when he saw his Order for reducing it for it was reduced from 500 l. to 250 l. of which he paid 184 l. Mr. Palmer proceeded observing That the next thing was a Refusal of the whole Kingdom to Present their Complaints It is true said he it was not by my Lord of Strafford himself but it ensued on these Acts and Proclamations and that was hindering the Committee of the Parliament that were to come over to make a Remonstrance of their Grievances to His Majesty Sir Robert Smith being Sworn and Interrogated Whether he was imployed by the House of Commons to come over hither and Whether he was deny'd Licence He Answered
only excepted as be imployed here c. do hereafter make their personal Residence and not depart for England or other place without privity of Our Deputy any former Letters to the contrary notwithstanding And because We resolve to have this course constantly observed if you shall have notice of any Contemner of this Command Our Will and Pleasure is That you proceed against them in an exemplary way to deterr others And for so doing this shall be your Warrant My Lord of Strafford observed That he might well have hoped that this being required by the Laws of the Land that no man should depart without Licence but it should be penal to him having their own Articles which desire the same thing That by this Proclamation the Power of my Lord of Faulkland was established upon him and the Kings Command for the issuing this Proclamation being justified by the Kings own Letter so that this should not have been laid to him for so great and high a crime as it hath been represented to your Lordships and he trusted that by that time their Lordships thought it not so great a crime as it might at first seem to be That he was not very hasty in issuing the Proclamation he having no interest in it nor nothing to drive him forwards for tho His Majesties Command was bearing date 20 Iune 1634. yet the Proclamation issued not till Sept. 17. 1635. And because all he had said had been turned on him as a crime his Lordship gave this further Answer That there could be no Proclamation made by the Deputy alone he being absolutely restrained by his Commission not to make a Proclamation without the Council therefore he could not be singular in the fault but had the consent of all the Kings Council and for instance in matter of Law the Chief Justices are sitting at the Board to whom all matters of Law are referred and they are answerable for it and are so learned that they could not do things so frequently without good authority and this he offered in excuse of this and all other Proclamations not doubting but it was according to the Laws and Customs of the Land And for further satisfaction that part of his Commission that concerned the Proclamation was read and in this particular he desired leave to offer something more with all Humility that tho none of these were for his justification yet for Reasons of State this Restraint was most necessary for whosoever goes over Deputy while these two great men to term them no worse O Neal and Tir-Connel have Regiments of the most antient Irish Septs serving the King of Spain under their Command it is necessary for him to have an eye upon them for if every one might withdraw himself at pleasure without giving an account it would open all the power and means that possibly can be to distemper that State and certainly if that liberty might be granted he feared it would produce sad events in that Kingdom Moreover if all the Primogeniture and Nobility of that Religion should be suffered to go over to Doway St. Omer and the Jesuites Colledges it was to be feared they should not be so well brought up for the service of the King and Common-wealth as may be desired and therefore it was necessary according to the constitutions of that Kingdom that they shall give an account to the Chief Governor And it was no other than what is practised here in England no man being at liberty to goe hence into France without Licence And certainly said he it is an Account we owe to the King and stands with the Law of nature Pater Familiae may take accompt of his own Houshold and the King being the great Father of the Common-wealth we owe this Accompt to him Therefore he conceived it can be no great offence in him to do this on these grounds and as he recommended the prosperity of that Kingdom and His Majesties affairs there and here to God by his Prayers and good desires so he wishes it might be taken into good consideration that this may be continued as a principal and necessary expedient to give His Majesty that account without which the Governor shall not be able to take just measures of things there His Lordship then observed that something had been observed that was no part of his Charge and therefore presumed their Lordships would not expect an answer to it or conclude him any way in their Judgement guilty of it since the means of giving that satisfaction which otherwise he should have done are now taken away But when they came to be complained of in their proper place he is ready to give such an account as becomes a Just and Innocent man But that which seems to be the foulest of them was that concerning my Lord of Esmond of which he remembred very little but something darkly and if it appeared not as he should say he was extreamly mistaken for what he did not know or remember he would not speak of it confidently and in short the point is this Two men swear that he the Lord of Strafford denied liberty to my Lord of Esmond to come for England Aug. 1638. and that he was kept in Ireland and could not have Licence to come away till April 1639. His Lordship confessed it to be very true and that he remembred my Lord of Esmond desiring to go over was stopped by him a while he being Sergeant Mayor-General of the Army the Army having occasion of motion and that he was sure it was much about the time if his Memory failed him not extreamly but when it came to this time and he had means to produce witnesses he hoped to make this appear besides he was mistaken if he did not very shortly after give him a Licence and that he found not occasion to make use of it and if that was was so all they said was taken away for he afterwards finding it to draw towards winter laid aside the Licence till the Spring at Spring he asked it and had it but in these things not judicially brought against him and to which he could not make certain Answers he hoped he might stand clear and unprejudiced till he may answer positively for himself and then as their Lordships should find him they might judge of him and he should ever most willingly submit to their Judgements and abide it whatever it was And whereas the Witnesse said my Lord of Esmond was hindred because he had no Commission to examine Witnesses my Lord of Strafford said he was able to prove that a Bond was granted him to examine Witnesses And the Witness being accidentally there his Lordship took notice of Gods providence from that and said God Almighty was willing to help and assist him wonderfully in his Trial and that his Goodness to him in this Cause had been a great deal more than he would trouble their Lordships withal at that time but he said he was confident God had
him in his protection and would never forsake him and whatsoever he should loose in this world he would make it up to him in another world And for this purpose Mr. Riley was produced who being questioned whether he was imployed in suing out a Commission for examining of witnesses in Ireland in a Cause concerning my Lord of Esmond and Sir Peirce Crosby Mr. Riley Answered That he was imployed as Clarke in the Cause where Mr. Attorney was Plaintiff by Relation of my Lord Lieutenant against my Lord of Esmond and Sir Peirce Crosby and when that Cause came to Commission they for the Defendant brought Commissioners names and did joyn in that Bond but he cannot remember the time Being asked on Mr. Maynards motion whether Sir Pierce Crosby or my Lord of Esmond fued it out He Answered he could not directly say but the Clerk for the Defendants could Mr. Ralton being asked to the same point He Answered that he remembers that about this time 1638 or 1639. Commissions were sued out in the business between my Lord Lieutenant and my Lord of Esmond and Sir Pierce Crosby and that he was very confident that my Lord of Esmond had the benefit of examining Witnesses My Lord of Strafford observed that these Gentlemen stirred up those things to beget an ill opinion of him but in short answered they were not in his Charge And further That he conceived my Lord of Esmond was stayed on a complaint of Sir Walsingham Cokes concerning a practice of his to the endangering of Sir Walsingham's life And that he was stayed upon that account to be examined and if he the Lord Strafford was not mistaken my Lord Esmond was after examination left at liberty But these things he said were rather aggravations of his Charge than within the Charge and therefore he humbly conceived that in these cases their Lordships would allow him liberty and hoped the Gentlemen will likewise allow it that so he might satisfie them their Lordships and all the world that he hath carried himself justly and fairly in all these particulars Also assuring himself that these Gentlemen were willing he should give the best answer to all these things he could And so he would and that with all respect and reverence to them in the world The next Case is my Lord Roches and his Lordship conceives that my Lord Roche himself gives a fair answer for he was informed against him in the Starchamber and my Lord of Strafford said indeed he remembred there was such an occasion for it as he was willing to forget it for that noble Gentlemans Cause and that the complaint was of so high a nature against my Lord Roche as he was not willing to press it to his prejudice nor ever did but where there was great reason and when he should come to answer for it for he imagines it is not expected he should answer it finally now being not within his Charge Heaven should justifie him and shew that he had reason to stay him at that time The next is Dermond Mac-Cartyes and the Cause of his stay appears to be That he would go abroad for his Breeding Now if he and such other should go to Doway and S t Omer he thinks their Lordships and the House of Commons would have blamed him more for giving him and such persons leave then faulted him for restraining them And had he alleadged That he intended to go over to Complain of that Decree he would not have hindred him and to that purpose he hath Witnesses that he never stayed any Man that pretended he would complain of him The Decree was made by a Letter from His Majesty on a notable fraud of Mac-Carty the Father in the Case of Sir Iames Craig and he that Swears in it is Solicitor in the Cause and so not altogether so competent a Witness But these are all on the by and come rather to prove an Intention then that which is pressed on him as a thing to which he is properly and finally to Answer The next is concerning the Sentence of Mr. Parry in which business my Lord humbly offered That no Testimony is yet produced other than the Testimony of the Party himself Now if the Judge may be Convinced and Condemned on the single Testimony of the Party grieved he knows no man would willingly sit in Judgment on these Termes and out of this single VVitness being qualified with the attribute of the party grieved Must he be Condemned that was one of the Judges But as they have Proved nothing Judicially that can weigh with their Lordships it will be fit for him to justifie himself for this Sentence so far as comes to his share for all the whole Board consented to it And therefore he besought their Lordships to give him the honor To offer the Sentence given against Mr. Parry wherein their Lordships would see the Reason that it was not for departing without Licence but for great and foul neglects and contempts to the Board Mr. Gibson Attesting it to be a true Copy the Decree of the Deputy and Council was Read being in substance WHereas Henry Parry one of them who attended the Lord Chancellor as his Lordships Register-keeper or Clerk for private Iudicatures and Keeper of the Books of these Private Proceedings was Commanded to attend the Board to be Examined And whereas in Contempt thereof he not onely neglected to attend accordingly but departed this Kingdom which being represented to His Majesty it pleased His Majesty to require his return hither to attend this Board To which end a Bond was taken for his Appearance here the next Council-day after the 12th of Aug. and whereas he was present himself at this Board 9th October 1638 but offered no Petition as if he disdained so far to humble himself to this Authority whereupon it ebing made known to him That it became him in the Duty he owed to the dignity of this Board to come by Petition as all other Men but he forbearing to exhibit his Petition till he was called by us the Deputiee to do it and then when he exhibited it he therein misrecited his Offence alleadging it to be for his repairing to England without Licence Licence whereas his Offence was The disobeying the Orders of this Board Secondly He laid a Tax on William Ralton Esq Alleadging That on pretence of Direction from Secretary Cooke he took his Bond for Appearance here whereas he knew it was not by any feigned direction but by appointment of Secretary Cooke by His Majesties Direction Thirdly In stead of humbling himself he desired Cancelling of his Bond and Dismission from attendance and the rather because he conceived he had not in any degree transgressed the Proclamation cautelously alledging that to be his Offence which was not laid to his Charge And for as much as his first Offence in Estoyning himself to shun the guilt whereof he was convinced and after his bold and insolent behaviour at
this Board in answering plainly That he conceived the Command of the Lord Chancellor ought to free him from the Command of this Board deserves such proceedings against him as may be both Punishment to him and Example to others It is therefore Ordered That he stand Fined in 500 l. Bound to his Good Behaviour stand Committed to the Castle during the Deputies pleasure and make acknowledgment of his Offence at this Board And the Form of his Submission is set down I Acknowledge I presented a Presumptuous and Untrue Petition c. Given 30 October 1638. The Names of those that Subscribed it were also Read Whence my Lord of Strafford observed That he was not Sentenced for going without Licence but for other Causes and desired my Lord Dillon and Sir Adam Loftus whose hands are to the Decree0 might be Asked a Question or two And first to the business of my Lord of Esmond which had been forgot before Robert Lord Dillon being asked Whether he remembred any Charge laid against my Lord of Esmond for a practice against Sir Walsingham Coke whereupon being Examined And When it was He Answered That he remembred it was about that time when a Letter was written from the Judges of Assize that went the Circuit of the County of Wexford and they Reported That they had taken Examinations Whereupon it was mistrusted or at least suggested That my Lord of Esmond was to set some on to cut off Sir Walsingham Coke and this being taken into consideration it was resolved That till the Judges had determined Whether it was Treason or not he should be stayed for a time and as he takes it it was Resolved he should be Advertised into England Being Asked on Mr. Maynards Motion What time this was He Answered The Question is sudden to him but it was much about the time that my Lord of Esmond had been in Town before but he cannot expresly speak to the time But my Lord of Strafford observed That the Complaint came from the Judges of Assize when they came from the Circuit and that was alwayes about August Lord Dillon being Asked What year it was He Answered He cannot tell the year of the Lord in Terms but he remembers it was much about that time when my Lord of Esmond was Questioned and about Summer Circuit My Lord of Strafford proposing That my Lord Dillon might be Asked What he remembred of the Sentence against Parry and What his behaviour was To this Mr. Maynard excepted as not proper to Examine the Judge Whether his Sentence was just or no To which my Lord of Strafford Answered That it is as equal the Judge that gives Sentence should be Examined as the party against whom the Sentence is given That this is a Sentence for things spoken and done at the Board which stands not on such Niceties but Contempts and Misdemeanors to a Court are frequently determined without Examination of Witnesses and this is a Misdemeanor done in the place But my Lord Dillon being spared from Answering Sir Adam Loftus was Examined What he knew of that practice of my Lord of Esmond against Sir Walsingham Cokes Life And when He Answered That the first time he heard of it was upon an Information of the Judges of the Circuit to my Lord Deputy then in Ireland as he takes it and he thinks my Lord was not then in Town but sent that Information to the Council at Dublin his Lordship being then at his Countrey-house and therein some Practice against Sir Walsingham Coke of certain Rebels and Outlawes that had laid in Ambush near his house was set forth and thereupon that Letter was sent to the Council to Consider of it and take course for his Security That this was not all neither for the Examination of a Rebel in the Castle brought it home nearest to my Lord of Esmonds Case But because the Rebel was a Man of that condition it was not thought his Testimony could be prevalent against my Lord of Esmond therefore the other Witnesses were sent for to be Examined in the Cause Now this Course of Examination held a matter of three weeks or a month or thereabouts he doth not well know the time but these Men not concurring with the Testimony of the Rebel in Restraint there was no words made of it but my Lord of Esmond was dismissed and left to take his own Course The time was as he takes it in the Summer Assizes 1637 or 1638 he knows not which And this is the truth and all he knows of the business Whence my Lord of Strafford Inferred That being under that Charge of Sergeant-Major-General of the Army he denyed him liberty to go into England but as soon as he was clear he had his Licence Mr. Maynard desiring their Lordships to observe that my Lord of Strafford Explained himself thus That he thought so or very shortly after And added That the Gentleman is very quick with him being a Man of great understanding and himself a weak Man But that he means very justly and would not be taken in an Untruth and said That he hath a Servant that was with him when my Lord of Esmonds Agent came to him at his House in the Countrey And desired he might be Asked What Answer he gave him Francis Wetheringe being Asked VVhat he knew concerning my Lord of Straffords giving of Licence to my Lord of Esmond He Answered That he remembers very well that the Gentlemen were Examined before they came to Fairework-Parke while he was waiting on his Lordship at that time the Gentleman came to him and desired him to tell my Lord he would speak with him that he heard my Lord say It was concerning his Licence to repair to England and my Lord said He should have it but it was Winter time and he would let it alone till the Spring Being Asked What Month it was He Answered He could not very well remember but it was the latter end of Summer as he thought Mr. Ralton being Asked Whether the business of my Lord of Esmond and Sir Walsingham Coke were not Advertized over hither He Answered That he doth very well remember the business he being then Agent for my Lord Lieutenant That in one of his Letters or the Councils Advertisement was given of this practice against Sir Walsingham Coke and as he takes it was in Sept. 1638. or thereabouts and that my Lord was pleased to do him the said Mr. Ralton the favour to give him some passages of it Therefore my Lord of Strafford desired These things might not stick with their Lordships or the House of Commons to his prejudice when he had not Means nor Possibility to make his Defence but that in Charity they would reserve their Opinions till they sound the truth to the bottom and then he hoped he should appear an honest Man and that was all he pretended to For the Remonstrance of the House of Commons in Ireland it is no Evidence
Witness in Courts of Justice And to answer that fully and clearly it shall appear that this very thing is assigned by Secretary Little to be the reason why he should not go over that he might not complain of his suit and a Witness did depose to that effect Iohn Meaugh bein sworn and Interrogated to the Cause of denying the said Licence He Answers That he went to Dublin with Mac-Carty the Son with the Petition and that Secretary Little took the Petition in his hand and said Are not you Mac-Carty's Son Yes said he And you intend to go and complain against the Order my Lord conceived against your Father No indeed sayes he I do not Sayes the Secretary I will take your Petition and deliver it to my Lord and I believe my Lord will not grant your Request and they left the Petition and went out A little after a kinsman of his the Deputies Master Sir Valentine Brown said to him the Son I have heard my Lord hath granted your Request in your Petition so they came to the place to receive the Petition and this is the Petition shewed their Lordships when his the Deputies Master saw the Petition he would not take it Take notice Gentlemen saith Mr. Little what Charge he hath and if he doth any thing to the contrary let it be on his peril so they took the Petition and went away Against Parries Testimony First my Lord says he is a single Witness but if that be not admitted there is no need of his Testimony for Secretary Cook 's Warrant proves what was the reason and their Lordships may know whence that came His Sentence is thus far in question here whether he was sentenced for coming over or otherwise It is true and that is the iniquity of it the sentence doth express it to be for another Cause It is not usual in Sentences to say what it is not for but what it is for but it is for his not petitioning the Council-Table and setting forth after in his Petition that his offence was his coming overwithout Licence and saying Mr. Ralton pretended Secretary Cooks ' directions whereas he must so speak truth as not to be charged with a pretence And it were most just to sentence him for coming without Licence then for his being not called nor any way able to answer the Defence That others are joyned with him in the Sentence it doth not excuse his Lordship They shew the more dependencie upon him and by this means no complaints of Injustice or Oppression can be brought to any but himself and that brings them under his wing However the fault is in them as well as in him The Remonstrance he says is only a Charge but it is the Declaration and Voice of all the People of sufficient credit to represent their grievances what they conceive to be their true Liberty and how they have used it ever since the time of H. 2. Which is that they should have redress for grievances which is no other than the Common-Law That the Subject should have free Access to the Sovereign His last is That there is nothing of Treason in this And to this the same Answer is given as to all the rest which are not individual Treasons The Multiplication of Acts all containing something in them of an Arbitrary power conclude as effects from the cause from whence this proceeds And this thing is not so petty as my Lord makes it to deny the Access of the Subject to their Sovereign and tho it be allowed by His Majesties Letter and Instructions yet these being obtained by himself make it worse he taking so Sovereign a Power that Non sentit parem nec superiorem Mr. Palmer instanced in that great Case of the Marquis of Dublin that had the Dominion of Ireland granted him he had Merum maximum Imperium under the Broad Seal and his Patent passed in Parliament yet it was one of the Articles charged on him for it tended to the Severance of the Allegiance of the People from their King In the next Article their Lordships shall hear his demeanor to those of the Scotch Nation Mr. Maynard desired to add a word to what had been said First My Lord says that the particulars are not in the Charge but that is a mistake for this Case of Parry is particularly charged and divers others it is true the rest are general but this is particular so the Charge is good in that And whereas my Lord had endeavoured to justifie this by Law Mr. Maynard observed That they do not lay the point upon that how far the Subject may be restrained in that particular but here is the sting of my Lord of Strafford's proceedings he takes this be it lawful or unlawful to prevent the Complaints which might be brought to His Majesty against his Injustice for he hath done all that tothis people now an ill intent may make that ill which in it self otherwise will not be ill and he besought their Lordships to take this into consideration what a miserable condition the Subjects of Ireland are in when there are never so great grievances laid on them yet they cannot complain and no complaint can be received unless he that oppresses them gives them leave so to do and when their oppressions riâ— so high when shall he give them leave My Lord of 〈◊〉 says Thousands have come yea many he is sure that have not been punished nor questioned Whence Mr. Maynard observed That it is ill lâ—k that the oppressed are always punished others may go without punishment but it falls out unhappily That they that have Complaints against him are the men that are restrained and it may not be thought that they will bear a Complaint sometimes that they may seek a better opportunity when they shall see such examples that is one Fined for exhibiting a Petition and saying that is untrue when against another an Information that hath laid dead halfe a year shall be quickened upon that occasion and they must be punished more that are more oppressed as in the Case of my Lord of Esmond And whereas my Lord of Strafford says he never punished any where there was Complaint before Mr. Maynard besought their Lordships to observe that it is point blank contrary to the Evidence and Oath before their Lordships for in that particular Case of Mac-Carty there were two Dismissions It is true the Merits of the Causes are not proper to be offered but there is cause to take Confidence that where it is called a fraud on Mac-Carty's part when it is examined it will be a very heavy oppression And whereas it hath been said by way of Justification mitigation at least that there hath been no Fees taken for Licences but such as were given voluntarily except in case of Officers of the State or the Army proof was offered that Mr. Little that takes on him to swear for himself or his fellows tho he did not know
had been Judges and Mr. Wainsford the Master of the Rolls took occasion to speak to my Lord Deputy in his the said Sir Philips hearing and commended him for carrying himself with that caution that he had no way reflected on the Nation but the Faction in that Kingdom and had shunned the words which might reflect on the Nation And so his Lordship concluded his Defence and said he hoped that there was nothing proved that should touch him so deeply as Treason for if the obeying of the Commands of this Case be so great a crime he must confess if it were to do again being not better informed by wiser men tho hereafter he may be better informed and prevent it he should be that Trairor over again and do the self-same thing again and therefore if he had done it out of ignorance he hopes their Lordships will not look on him as having any evil intention or wicked purpose but to serve His Majesty with faithfulness which he hopes will procure an easier judgement from their Lordships than to think of a High Treason in this Article And then Mr. Whitlock made Reply thereunto in substance as followeth That in his Answer to my Lord of Strafford's Defence he shall begin with that which his Lordship was pleased to mention last and also at the beginning That this should not be accounted Treason he knows not the Illegality of it and if it were to be done again he would do it on that Command Whence Mr. Whitlock observed that his slighting or rather justifying of this offence when he is told in this great Presence that it is against Law and will be made good and appear to be against Law is a great aggravation of the offence It is well known that a new Oath cannot be Imposed without Assent in Parliament It is legistativa potestas The Oath of Allegiance is as antient as our allegiance and nothing needed to have been added to that and had it been tendered to them as it might have been by Law this would have performed the Kings Command which under favour went no farther and would have been sufficient security of what was doubted and feared But my Lord of Strafford will go farther the Oath that the Law enjoyns doth not please him he must have a new one framed by himself and published by his Authority thereby to make his Authority equal to an Act of Parliament 'T is indeed believed there were some apprehensions of dangers in Ireland by the great number of the Scots there and a Covenant in Scotland then Sworn but that Covenant is not to be medled withal now The Charge enforced against my Lord of Strafford is not his Care of preventing danger to the Kingdom but that he caused a new and unusual Oath to be Imposed and particularly that they should submit to all the Kings Royal Commands The Committee confess and think no man had ever yet a heart to doubt That the King would command any thing that should be against Law But it hath been sufficiently proved that my Lord of Strafford a Subordinate Minister under the King hath published his own Commands in the Kings Name which are not Justificable nor according to Law And that under favour might be a good cause for the Scots to be tender of taking his Oath knowing that these Commands here were not His Majesties Immediate Commands but the Commands of my Lord of Strafford which they saw many times so unlawful and exorbitant My Lord of Strafford hath produced diverse Witnesses to prove It was Debated on at Council-Board And that the Scots did chearfully take the Oath but in this he hath laboured to disprove his own Answer which is That the Scots came up and desired to have an Oath whereas it appears the Council-Table thought fit to send for them by Letters under his Lordships hand and it was propounded to them to take such an Oath He sayes himself put these words into the Petition In equal manner and measure with other His Majesties Subjects Which showes That my Lord of Strafford himself had the Perusal and Correction of this Petition which is a good Proof that he contrived the Oath The Petition doth only beseech my Lord Deputy That an Oath might be framed to vindicate themselves from the Faction of their Countrymen and the Covenant which they might have done by the Legal Oath the Oath of Allegiance But he put something in above what they desired and that was for submission to all the Kings Royal Commands which may extend to Liberty to Property of Goods and so is a great deal further than His Majesty was pleased to Command by His Letter wherein there was nothing but what was very fit to be commanded by my Lord of Strafford and very fit for him to obey And What if my Lord of Strafford should procure a Letter from His Majesty to do that which is not warrantable by Law the Kings considerations are far above the particular Points of the Municipal Law of this Kingdom He cannot know them but is to be enformed of them by His Ministers Now if my Lord of Strafford shall misinforme Him and desire to have that by His Authority which is not warrantable by Law the fault is my Lord of Straffords and it much aggravates the Crime but the Kings Letter doth not warrant my Lord of Strafford for he hath proceeded further He sayes concerning the Censure of Mr. Stuart That he delivered his Opinion among the rest but their Lordships may remember he went as high as to charge him with Treason It is true the Bishop of Derry conceived it might be Treason And the Primate said The Denial of the former part might be Treason but not the latter but my Lord of Strafford conceived the latter part to be Treason too And therefore surely his Opinion had more harshness and severity then the rest and being his Opinion it was of sufficient weight to carry along with him all the rest and that which was his own Act at the beginning which he Contrived and Treated with the Scotch Lords and Gentlemen That he persues in his Sentence and if others joyn with him in a hard Sentence against Law his fault is not the less but rather the greater to draw others into the same fault His Lordship says little of the Fine that is paid It is true it cannot be proved how much was paid but those that were Fined continued in Prison till very lately for that Fine And whereas he sayes Any taking the Oath might have been Released the next day It is the more Cruelly done to keep them in Prison till they take an Oath who cannot satisfie their Consciences that they may take it My Lord sayes If one refuse the Oath of Allegiance in this Kingdom he shall incur a Premunire and this Sentence was more moderate Indeed if that had been tendered they had incurred the like sentence and that might serve the turn but my Lord must stretch his
to himself He apprehended there was some design as he feared in England and he had this reason for it too For in that condition they were then in they of the Council of Warr saw no possibility to make this Army in a readiness to invade Scotland within the time limited for by directions of my Lord of Strafford left with them they were to be ready at the Provincial Rendezvous by the 18 th of May and that by subsequent directions was forborn till 18 th Iune then they all met to march to the general Rendezvous The Arms Ammunition and Preparations could not be ready so soon nor were they in readiness till the end of Sept. following So that on the whole matter those amongst them that might be free their consultations all agreed that it might tend to the purposes here declared And from the time observed by my Lord Ranalaugh for the raising of the Army in Ireland Mr. Whitlock observed That it could not be intended for Scotland for no Army was raised in Scotland till some months after To prove the words spoken by the Lord of Strafford himself to shew his designe to bring the Army to England Sir Tho. German Comptroller of His Majesties Houshold being Interrogated whether he heard not the Earl of Strafford tell the King that the Parliament had denyed to supply him and had sorsaken him or words to that effect He Answered That he should humbly presume to crave one thing of their Lordships and it was briefly this There is nothing that he can be Interrogated upon in this Cause but it must fall within the cognizance and knowledge of many of my Lords here present who must needs remember all that he hath to say as well or perhaps better than he can himself His humble desire therefore to their Lordships is That if through distance of time and the weakness of his memory there be any thing that may be better remembred by some of their Lordships than is at this time by himself it may not be imputed to him as from a desire of concealing any part of the truth but a failor in memory and that their Lordships will believe of him that in this great Assembly he shall be very unwilling to speak any thing but that that shall perfectly occurr to his remembrance and that request granted he shall humbly answer to every thing And to the question he remembers very well that he was Interrogated upon the same terms heretofore that he is now His Answer was then as he takes it in these words That he remembred that he heard my Lord of Strafford say something of the Parliaments deserting or forsaking the King or something to that effect or purpose but he did not remember then what inference my Lord made upon it nor what he did conclude thereupon neither can he now call himself to further remembrance on that point than he then deposed The Earl of Bristol Sworn and Interrogated Whether he heard any words spoken by my Lord of Strafford That in this great distress of King and Kingdom the Parliament had refused to supply the King in the ordinary and usual way and that therefore the King might provide for the Kingdom by such ways as he thought fit and was not to suffer himself to be mastered by the frowardness and undutifulness of his people or to that effect He Answered That it is very true that about 12 months since by meer accident he had a private discourse with my Lord of Strafford and some months after had discourse with a Peer of this House my Lord Conway by name meerly to let him know the difference that was between some Tenants of my Lord of Straffords and himself the Earl of Bristol What use hath been made of it he doth not know But upon this he doth conceive he comes to be Interrogated It is almost Twelvemonths agoe since this discourse did happen yet afterwards he was called now a month or six weeks since and was examined on oath on several Interrogatories After he had well recollected himself he did set down for his memory what he could think of and out of those Notes and Papers he did then make his Answer Now his examination being upon oath he shall be very loath to depose particularly to words but to the effect of what passed And therefore he shall crave leave not out of his examinations but out of the words he then set down to read the effect of what he then spake for if a man be deprived of words and tell not the sense and coherence and subsequents he shall not do himself right but may do a great deal of wrong to the party accused and therefore though it be somewhat the longer he shall tell the circumstances It is true That after the disso lution of the last Parliament he had discourse accidentally with the Earl of Strafford but being many months since he cannot precisely depose unto the words that then passed But he remembers that speaking then together of the great distractions of those times Videlicet touching the present things that were then at Lambeth for it was just about that time of the Mutiny of some Soldiers against their Officers of the present great danger apprehended by the ensuing War as was feared of Scotland and of the said Parliament being broken without supplying the King he the Earl of Bristol did then in his discourse chiefly attribute these disorders to the breach of the Parliament And speaking what might be the best way for help in these distressed times he then conceived and said that he thought the best way to prevent any desperate undertakings would be to Summon a new Parliament that might quiet the times for the present The expectation thereof might quiet the Distempers at that time And as for the War of Scotland he did much fear the success of it unless the King should be assisted both with the Purse and Affections of his People And he Alleadging to my Lord of Strafford many Reasons for it conceiving it was not likely that our Nation lying under great Grievances should go willingly and chearfully to a War labouring under the same grievances with themselves My Lord of Strafford he must speak it and confess it very ingenuously seemed no way to dislike the Discourse but said he did not conceive it to be Counsellable at that time neither did the present dangers of the Kingdom which were not now imaginary but real and pressing admit of so slow and uncertain a remedy as a Parliament was for that the Parliament had in the great distress of the King and Kingdom refused now to supply the King by the ordinary and usual way of Subsidies and therefore the King must provide for the safety of his Kingdom by such wayes as He should think fit in his wisdom And he the Earl of Bristol doth remember that the said Earl of Strafford at the same time did use the Sentence Salus Reipublicae Suprema
answer Categorically He Answered That he verily believes my Lord did so and that under favour reaches almost to a knowledge the thing is so notorious that the thing it self may be known Being required to speak his knowledge Whether my Lord of Strafford told them the Lords had Commanded or Consented to it He Answered When that was spoken of he was out of the Room and it was drawn by Mr. Rockley a Deputy Lieutenant but Mr. Rockley told him my Lord did say so Being yet again prest to a positive Answer Mr. Maynard observing to their Lordships That when a Gentleman is brought upon his Oath in a Cause of this Consequence this Dalliance is not to be admitted He Answered That he Answer'd as clearly as can be And the Gentlemen will not press him beyond his knowledge He sayes he doth confidently believe it but under favour he was not at that time in the Room but Mr. Rockley told him My Lord of Strafford had acquainted the King and the Great Council Mr. Maynard observing That now he speaks less then before and desired he might be Interrogated Whether at that time or at any other time my Lord of Strafford told him The Lords of the Great Council had assented to this Levy Which being proposed He Answered He doth confidently believe my Lord did it It may be proved by a great many others but he is confident of this as of any thing in the World that my Lord did tell them when they went to draw the Warrant That my Lord had acquainted the Lords of the Great Council and His Majesty and that he did it by their Consent and therefore they put it into the Preamble of their Order Sir Hen. Griffin Sworn and Interrogated Whether my Lord of Strafford said The Lords of the Great Council had consented to the levying of Money He Answered He heard my Lord say so indeed or else they had not set their hands to the Order that he had direction from the Great Council to levy Money for Sir William Pennyman and Sir Tho. Danbies Regiments Being Interrogated In what manner the Money was to be Levyed He Answered That he doth not know in what manner Being Asked on my Lord of Clares Motion What he meant by this Direction He Answered That there was an Order made from all them that were Deputy-Lieutenants and my Lord of Strafford as one and this is the Order concerning the levying of Money for the two Regiments Being Asked on Mr. Glyns Motion Whether my Lord of Strafford had not directed the money to be levied in manner as is exprest in the Order He Answered That to his best Remembrance my Lord did say so he must confess Being Asked Whether in case any refused to pay this money they were not to be compelled to serve in person He Answered There was such a Clause in the Order to his best Remembrance Mr. Robert Strickland Sworn and Interrogated Whether my Lord of Strafford said The Great Council had directed Warrants should be issued for the levying of Money He Answered Yes It cannot be deny'd He the Examinant gave a Copy of that Order when the last Commissioners were at Rippon and he saw a Gentleman even now behind him that had a Copy of the Order and Warrant and it is declared that it was done by the Great Council of the Peers Sir Iohn Burroughes Sworn and Interrogated Whether he knew of any such VVarrant or Order for levying money for those two Regiments He humbly intreated That he might have their Lordships direction before he Answered the Question for their Lordships know very well that by His Majesties Command he was appointed to be Clerk or Register of the Great Council Moreover he conceives That by his duty all Orders and Resolutions of the House especially those that concerned third Parties without asking leave he was to deliver to the parties if they required them But for such Debates and Arguments as were used in the Great Council to and again between their Lordships he humbly intreated their Lordships Direction VVhether he should publish any thing of them or no And upon their Lordships Order he shall clearly and with all integrity deliver the truth Being permitted by their Lordships to speak to the Questions propounded He proceeded and said That he hath very good cause to remember that upon the 20th of October he went to my Lords Commissioners for the Scotch Treaty at Ripon and upon that day there were two prime Gentlemen of those parts that came and attended the Lords he thinks about business of their own and he supposes only to tender their service to their Lordships That amongst some other Discourses betwixt the Lords and them they mentioned some such Order as this was concerning the relieving of the two Regiments that were for the Guard of Richmondshire and some other of those parts made as they said by the Great Council of the Peers and thereupon that themselves my Lord of Strafford and the rest of the Deputy-Lieutenants had granted out VVarrants for the Assessing of Money for the relieving of those Regiments Those that heard it were startled at the Order being said to be an Order of the Great Council and commanded him the Examinant to inform them VVhether he knew of any such Order he told them He remembers not any such Order and was confident he never drew up any because he never heard any mention of those two Regiments in the Great Council Their Lordships asking him whether he was sure of it he told their Lordships he would look on his Notes and faithfully inform them how the case stood he did so and came back to their Lordships and told them he found nothing in his Notes of these Regiments and while he was there he was confident no Order was drawn up It is true he told their Lordships some Order might be drawn up when he was absent for he was first at Ripon and at York he was oftentimes employed in the Committee to write Letters and Orders and what was done in his absence he could give no answer to but confident he was no Order was made before the 20th of October by him or in his hearing or knowledge Hereupon the Lords desired those two Gentlemen to give them Copies of the Warrants they had sent out And that he the Examinant should take their Testimony which he did this was the Twentieth or Twenty seventh of October which was the last day of the Great Council of the Peers My Lord of Strafford in Council then did take notice that some such thing had been done at Ripon and then said to my Lord that he did conceive he had the Kings Order and their Lordships Approbation for the issuing out of this VVarrant But since he conceived their Lordships disliked it he had taken Copies of it he was very willing to withdraw these Warrants And on Debate there was nothing more done For his part he never drew up an Order nor
no greater measure God be praised than these are My Lords these being the words that passed from me in Ireland there are other words that are charged upon me to have been spoken in England but if your Lordships will give me leave though perhaps in no very good method I shall not fail to touch first or last the words in every Article The next Article then that I am charged withal for words is the second Article and these are the words that I should say concerning the Finger and the Loins My Lords I may alledge much new matter but I will observe your Lordships Order punctually by the Grace of God for what I may say in that case if it might be admitted I keep it to my self but the truth is they that do prove the words to be thus That I would make the little finger of the Law heavier than the Kings Loins they do not tell you the occasion of the Speech or what went before or what after for my Lords if they had told the occasion which methinks they should as well have remembred as the words it would plainly and clearly have appeared to your Lordships that Sir William Pennymans Testimony was most true for the occasion was such that to have said those words had been to have spoken against that to which I intended the discourse but speaking them as I said it makes very strong for that purpose to which I directed them which was to appease the Countrey and quiet the Discontents for having been double charged with the Knight-money and therefore it was not properly threatening them further to have provoked them My Lords you have Sir Will. Pennymans testimony that it was so and my profession who under favour will not speak an untruth to save my life I protest before God that I say I verily believe or else I will never speak it indeed and there it is they have proved it to have been said one way we another way we give the occasion of our Speech and disavow theirs and so we must leave it and howsoever these words so spoken can never be drawn as I humbly conceive as premises to prove their conclusions that therefore I am guilty of High Treason they have made me guilty of a foolish Word and that I confess and if they please I will confess it all the day long for I have been foolish all the days of my life and I hope hereafter I shall look unto my ways that I offend not with my Tongue for if I cannot rule it abroad I will rule it within doors else I will never stirr abroad but bound it so to my own business and affairs that I trust I shall give no offence The next Article that chargeth me with words is the 22 Article and these be words spoke in England The first part of them which concerns the bringing in of the Irish Army I have spoken to already but in the conclusion there are other words and shortly the said Earl of Strafford returned to England and to sundry persons declared his opinion to be That His Majesty should first try the Parliament here and if that did not supply him according to his occasions he might then use his Prerogative as he pleased to levy what he needed and that he should be acquitted both of God and Man if he took some other courses to supply himself though it were against the will of his Subjects My Lords as unto this I conceive the Charge is not proved by any Witness that hath been here produced against me and in truth my Lords I must needs say this under favour if it be an error in my Judgement I must humbly crave your Lordships pardon through the whole Cause I have not seen a weaker proof and if I had had time to have gotten my Witnesses out of Ireland I hope that should be proved and so clearly as nothing could be proved more but I must stand or fall to what I have proved and so I do my Lords the proof they offer for this as I conceive is the Testimony of my Lord Primate and his Testimony is That in some discourse betwixt us two touching Levying upon the Subject in case of imminent necessity he found me of opinion that the King might use his Prerogative as he pleased My Lords this is under favour a single Testimony it is of a discourse between him and me and there is not any other that witnesses any thing concerning it so that under favour My Lords I conceive this will not be sufficient to bring me any ways in danger of Treason being but a single Testimony and my Lords it is to be thought and to be believed and it were a great offence for any man to think otherwise that in this case any thing can please the King he is so Gracious and Good but what shall be Just and Lawful and then there is no doubt but so far as with Justice and Lawfulness he may use his Prerogative in case of imminent danger when ordinary means will not be admitted At most he saith it was but an opinion and opinions may make an Heretick but they shall not I trust make a Traitor The next is the Testimony of my Lord Conway and the words that his Lordship testifies are these That in case the King would not be otherwise supplyed by Subsidies he might seek means to help himself though it were against the will of his Subjects Truly my Lords if I should acknowledge these words I do not see how they can be any way Capital in my case but this again is but a single Testimony and there is no other that says it but himself and if there be a good sense given to them certainly the words may very well bear it for I think it is a very natural motion for any man to preserve himself though it be to the disliking of another and why a King should not do it as well as a Subject it is such a prerogative of Kings as I never yet heard of for I thought though they had been Gods on earth yet they are men and have affections as men and should preserve themselves being not only accountable for themselves to God Almighty but also for their Subjects whose Good and Benefit is wrapt up and involved in theirs and therefore the King ought more to regard his own preservation than the Common-wealth The Third is That Mr. Treasurer says that to his best remembrance I did say That if the Parliament should not succeed I would be ready to assist His Majesty any other way God forbid this should be any offence for to say so either in him or me for I will swear if it please you that he said so as well as I therefore God forbid it should endanger either of us both for my Lords to say I will serve the King any other way it is no other than what became a good and faithful servant to do always provided the way be good and lawful
should be reduced by force he gave advice precipitately without hearing the reasons and not concurrent to the Council for an offensive War and putting all together I refer it your Lordships judgement who is the Incendiary for how can it be proved more clearly unless it should appear under his Hand and Seal proved by two or three witnesses Now My Lords how comes this to be his design here the Mystery comes to be unfolded Having thus incensed to the War and ingaged the King to the uttermost and having a Parliament now dissolved without supply he sets up an Idol of his own creation as a means to draw on his design and that was necessity necessity is it that must enforce the King what to do to levy Money to use his Prerogative to raise supplies upon His Subjects without their consent against their Will necessity must be his Argument and this War must be the occasion of that necessity and without that he cannot suggest to the Kings ear or advise this necessity till this be brought to pass And now he hath brought it to pass he began in the One and twentieth Two and twentieth and Three and twentieth Article to perswade the King that necessity hath surprized him by the Parliaments deserting of him that the Parliament had forsaken the King in denying supply and having tryed the affections of His people he was loose and absolved from all rules of Government and had an Army in Ireland which he might employ to reduce this Kingdom That he spake these words to the King part is proved by two concurrent Witnesses that is that having tryed the affections of his people he was now loose and absolved from all rules of Government which words are proved by two witnesses of eminent quality that is my Lord of Northumberland and Sir Henry Vane and truly howsoever my Lord in his speech pretends that the most material words are proved but by one witness it seeming that he held it not a material charge that he counselled the King that he was absolved from all Rules of Government for my part if your Lordships be satisfied those words were proved I could willingly satisfy my own conscience in it and make no great matter to quit the rest for I know not how he could express it in higher terms than that the King was absolved from all rules of Government for then he might do what he would It is true the latter words touching the Irish Army are expresly proved but by one witness Mr. Secretary Vane but are fortified again with such circumstances as make up more than one yea more than two other witnesses if your Lordships will have the patience to have it represented as it is proved For howsoever it be slighted by him if your Lordships will call to mind the words of Sir George Ratcliffe his bosom friend to whom he had contributed without question his advice in all causes the said Sir George Ratcliffe expressed it before and told some of his friends supposing that he never should be called in question and that the power of my Lord of Strafford had been enough to protect any thing he had done and out of the abundance of the heart his mouth spake the King must now want no money if he did no body would pity him now he had his sword in his hand Sir Robert King proves it so My Lord Ranalagh discovered the smoak of the fire that he had just cause to suspect and on good grounds I am sure and if the Commons of England had not just cause to suspect him as I believe he is convinced they had good cause what is the reason this suspition should be entertained at that time my Lord of Strafford being not then questioned for it and yet my Lord Ranalagh should say Shall we turn our Swords upon our own bowels Shall we bring this Army to turn the points of our blades upon that Nation from whence we were all derived and that was before any conference with Mr. Secretary Vane Sir William Penniman himself his own witness and friend says at York before my Lord of Strafford was questioned that there was a common fame of bringing the Army into England and there is something in that surely and after all this to produce one witness that expresly proves the very words spoken in terminis as they be charged if your Lordships put the whole together see whether there be not more than one witness And under favour my Lord Cottington if you call to mind his testimony I must justify he did declare That he heard my Lord of Strafford tell the King That some reparation was to be made to the Subjects property which must inferre he had advised an Invasion upon the property else by no good coherence should a reparation be made And that he testifies this I must affirm and most here will affirm it and I think your Lordships well remember it and that is an addition to it for if your Lordships cast your eye upon the Interrogatory administred to my Lord Admiral and my Lord Cottington that very question is asked so that his own conscience told him he had advised somthing to invade upon the people when he advised to a restitution after things should be setled and so I refer it to your Lordships consideration whether here be not more than one witness by far It is true he makes objections to lessen this testimony First That this Army was to be landed at Ayre in Scotland and not here and this was declared to Sir Thomas Lucas Mr. Slingsby Sir William Penniman and others Secondly That others that were present when the words are supposed to be spoken did not hear any such words For the first Perhaps the Army might be originally intended for Scotland and yet this is no contradiction but he might intend it afterwards for England surely this is no Logick that because it was intended for one place it could never be intended for another place so his allegation may be true and the charge stand true likewise Beside that it was intended originally for Scotland what proof makes he He told several persons of the design but I will be tryed by himself he told some it was for Scotland he told others it was for England and why you should believe his telling on one side more than on the other side I know not though he pretends a reason of his several allegations that the world should not know his design but if you will not believe him one way why should he be believed the other way and if not the other way why the first way For the Second Several persons were present when the words were spoken touching the Irish Army and they were examined and remember not the words but one man may hear though twenty do not hear and this is no contradiction at all for those persons whom he examined the Lord Treasurer Marquis Hamilton my Lord Cottington did not hear the words that are proved
doth cease nay he says that in War Inter Arma silent Leges Now my Lords these are as highly said as any thing you have heard by me and yet certainly is no subverting of the Fundamental Laws for all that and therefore if a man must be judged he must not be judged by pieces but by all together My Lords Whatsoever I said at Council-Board was led in by this Case what a King should do in case of a Foreign Invasion of an Enemy when the ordinary wayes and means of levying Money would not come in seasonably to prevent mischief for what a King may do in case of absolute necessity certainly in these cases the ordinary Rules do not take place as this was the Case that let in the Discourse so I most humbly beseech your Lordships for it is fully proved to remember what was the conclusion of that Discourse which was That after the present occasion provided for the King was obliged in Honor and Justice to vindicate and free the Liberty of the Subject from all prejudice and harm it might sustain in that extraordinary occasion and that this was to be done by a Parliament and no other way but a Parliament and the King and his People could never be happy till the Prerogative of the Crown and the Liberty of the Subject were so bounded and known that they might goe hand in hand together mutually to the assistance of one another My Lords give me that which precedes and that which follows both being proved to be the Case in these words in the Charge I think considering these two I should be far from having committed any great crime or offence in saying these words But I say as I said before I shall be more wary for the time hereafter if it please God to give me that Grace and Life which I submit to him and shall readily and willingly resign to his good Will and Pleasure I conceive therefore that as these words are accompanied they be not words that do amount to Treason and are so qualifyed and so weakly proved that I trust they shall not stick with your Lordships The next words that I am charged withal in England be on the 25th Article and that is that I should say that the Aldermen that would not give in the names of the able men of the City deserved to be put to Fine and Ransome and that no good would be done with them till an example were made of them and they were laid by the heels and some of the Aldermen hanged up In the first part of the Article there is something concerning my advice for raising the Money but it is not proved that I did any thing therein but as others did and as in former years had been done before my coming into the Kingdom For the words that they deserved Fine and Ransome I confess them in my Answer just in the same manner as my Lord of Berkshire was pleased to testify them the other day that is That if they should not do the thing desired they might in my opinion be liable to Fine and Ransome And my Lords admit I were mistaken in my opinion shall it be a Treason to be mistaken I say in my opinion they might be lyable to Fine and Ransome but what is this to Treason Under favour nothing at all as I conceive For the other part that it would never be well till some of the Aldermen be hanged it proves to be testified by Mr. Alderman Garroway and he owns it only for himself for it was not that some of the Aldermen should be hanged but he said at the Bar till he himself were hanged My Lords This is a single Testimony and these words as he says were by me spoken to the King at the Council-Board That it would never be well till some of them were hanged meaning himself truly my Lords I thank God I never spake such unmannerly Language all the dayes of my life I have had more regard to my words than to say such things to my Master and your Lordships must needs be many of you by and I am very confident there is not one among you that can remember any such words were spoke for in good faith I did not speak them And my Lords before this misfortune did befall me I should with modesty have thought my self a person on equal terms to have been believed as well as Mr. Garraway and I speak it with as great confidence as he that I never spake the words My Lords The next is the 26th Article and that is that I should say the City of London dealt undutifully with the King and they were more ready to help the Rebels than to help His Majesty and if any hurt came to them they might thank themselves My Lords I am in the first part of this Article charged to have counselled and approved two dangerous and wicked Projects the one concerning the stay of the Bullion in the Tower the other concernin Copper-coyn and no proof hath been offered that I either compelled or approved either of those two Projects And my Lords it is proved to your Lordships that when the Merchants came I told them I knew nothing of the business as to the Bullion neither indeed did I ever know there was any Bullion nor any thing of that nature in the Tower But for the words I conceive it had been no Treason for me to think at that time that the Londoners had dealt unthankfully with His Majesty I thought I might have said it freely without danger of such a thought as might conduce to the convicting me of Treason But whatsoever I then thought or on what grounds soever it may be remembred that then I alledged and now I speak it when news was brought to York that the City had sent the King Two hundred thousand pounds I took notice that notwithstanding all I had thought formerly they nad now made such recompence and so cleared their Faith and Duty to the King that I should be their servant and lay my hand under their feet as those that heard me are able to speak for though at first I said they had dealt unthanfully with the King yet afterwards I was ready and willing upon all occasions to testify the contrary of them and to profess that I was ready to serve them upon all occasions just and honest and honourable As for my saying that they were readier to help the Rebels than the King In truth I am a man that cannot justify a thing I do not approve I must needs say it was an unadvised Speech and I wish I had not spoke it it seems I did speak it for I have reason to believe honest men when they Swear though in truth I remember it not but I have no reason or cause to think they would take an Oath otherwise then truth I have no exception to the Men and therefore upon their words I must Credit them before my own memory but it
was an Unadvised Speech and he is a wise man and much wiser then my self that some time offends not with his Tongue And in truth my Lords though there be no Treason in it they are the most unwarranted words that appeare in the whole Proofe made against me In the 26th there are some words that I should speak to my Lord Cottington concerning a Foolish Pamphlet or Gazette which I then had in my hand and it is such a Toy in it self and all the Circumstances of it that I hold it not worth the mentioning but only that I would not forget any thing in the Proofes as near as I could and the Proofe is uncertain for onely one Man sayes it and the very words he cannot express Now he that shall Swear when he cannot express the Words his Testimony is but of small value and he is but a Single Proofe at best to disprove what is deposed by Sir William Parkhurst who sayes he was by yet heard not the Words And Cogam sayes he remembers not the words and so upon the matter there are two against one and the whole being so uncertain I conceive it is of very little moment in your Lordships Judgments My Lords These are as near as I can gather all that are charged as unto words spoken either in England or Ireland Councils other then these I am not charged withall and so there remains nothing but my Actions and if I can free them as well as I have freed the Words I conceive then under favour I have fully Answered all that hath been objected against me My Lords The first of these is the Fifth Article in the Case of Sentence of the Council of War against my Lord Mountnorris and the Sentence of the Council of War against Denwit For that of my Lord Mountnorris I have shewed plainly and clearly to your Lordships that I was no Judge in the Cause but a Party and therefore not Responsible for any Judgment given against his Lordship I gave no Vote and so consequently am not to Answer for any Guilt if there were any which under favour I conceive since all Martial Law is Adjudged to be against the Law I may be of another Opinion but formerly conceiving that that might have stood with the Law I might say something more for the Justification of it then now I do but hower I was no Party They say he was a Peer and it is very true but as he was a Peer so he was a Captain of the Army and in this Case we consider Men as Members of the Army not as Peers And if a Peer will not submit himself to an Officer of the Army he must submit himself to the Order of the Army Besides I say it was intended only as a Discipline to him the better to remember him to govern his Tongue afterwards towards other Men and that there was no more Prejudice fell upon him by it but two or three days Imprisonment so there was no great Animosity in the business besides it appeared to your Lordships that two or three dayes after we writ to the King and obtained his Pardon so that I conceive the Inconvenience was not very great to him nor the Proceedings such as should make it unpardonable or Criminal in them that gave Sentence upon him whereof I was none For that other concerning Denwitt your Lordships may remember he was found Guilty of Stealing a Quarter of Beef and for Running from his Collours and was formerly Burnt in the Hand for that he should be Proceeded against another way But falling out at that time when Five hundred Men were going over to Carlisle and they being unwilling to be put to Sea we were inforced to those proceedings for the preventing of further Mischief And there is another thing that the Martial-Law hath been alway in Force and executed in all times in Ireland and never so sparingly as in my time for this is the only Man that suffered all the time I had the Honour of the Government And I dare Appeal to them that know the Country Whether in former times many Men have not been committed and Executed by Martial-Law by the Deputies Warrant that were not Thieves and Rebels but such as went up and down the Country if they could not give Account of themselves the Provost-Martial by direction of the Deputies using in such Case to Hang them up I dare say there are Hundreds of Examples in this kind so that as to that I do not Justifie it But I say it is a Pardonable Fault and that others are of Course Pardoned for it And I trust that what falls of Course shall not be laid upon me as High-Treason or conducing to it The next is the Sixth Article and that is in the Case of Richard Rollston and therein I am said to have Subverted the Fundamental Laws by executing a Power and a Jurisdiction which was not Warranted by Law upon a Paper Petition putting out of Possession of his Freehold and Inheritance my Lord Mountnorris My Lords That Sentence will appear to your Lordships to be no more then the relieving a Poor Man in case of Equity and it is proved to you to be a Power that hath been formerly practised by the Deputies and I humbly conceive the Decree is just So that my Lords I must Confess it is something strange to me That having the Kings Letter to Warrant me in the Course of Proceedings and having the Power of former Deputies in like Case and doing no more therein then the Lord Chancellor by the very self-same Law should do in other places And that which should be done by the Chancellor should be Innocent and Just yet become High-Treason when done by me is a thing I understand not The next is the Case of Tonnres and that is waved by them and well may it be for it was in a Case of Plantation there was no Possession altered and it is fully within the Book of the Kings Instructions The next is in the Case of Sir Iohn Gifford against the Lord Viscount Loftus which they have Waved and well they may for it was grounded on a Letter from the King Commanding it to be heard by the Deputy and Council which is clearly within the Instructions and hath been since heard by the King and Council-Board and by them Confirmed for a Just Decree The next is the Case of my Lord of Kildare and that they may well Wave too the Proceedings being grounded upon a Letter from His Majesty and nothing done but in persuance of an Award between the Lord Digbyes House and that House of Kildare made by King Iames. The next is the Lady Hibbots Case and that was Relief given to Poor Men circumvented by Practice to the Prejudice of himself My Lords I had Power to hear that Cause and all Causes of that Nature by the King's Letter and according to the Practice of former Deputies And I conceive it will appear when it comes to