you doe notably sclaunder them and it is already answered If you meane that those are Puritanes or Catharanes whiche doe set foorthe a true and perfecte paterne or platforme of reforming the Churche then the marke of this heresie reacheth vnto those whiche made the booke of common prayer (b) An vntruthe for I do not saye so in any place whiche you saye is a perfecte and absolute rule to gouerne this Churche wherein nothing is wanting or too little nor nothing running ouer nor too muche As for the Catharanes whiche were the same that are otherwise called Nouatians I knowe no suche opinion they had and they whome you charge are as farre from their corruption as you bee Io. Whitgifte You haue sayde vnto me in one place of your booke Quid verba audiam cumfacta videam euen so I saye to you for why will they not come to oure Sermens or to oure Churches why will they not communicate with vs in oure Sacramentes not salute vs in the stréetes nay spitte in our faces and openly reuile vs whye haue they their secrete conuenticles You knowe all this to be true in a number of them I knowe not why they shoulde doe so excepte they thinke them selues to be contaminated by hearing vs preache or by comming to our Churches or by communicating otherwyse with vs. Whiche if they doe it argueth that they persuade them selues not onely of suche an outwarde perfection but of suche an inwarde puritie also that they may as iustly for the same be called Puritanes as the Nouatians The qualities of Nouatus and cause of his heresie were You knowe that the first occasion why Nouatus did separate him selfe from the Churche was bicause he coulde not obtayne the Bishoprike of Rome whiche he ambitiously desired You knowe also that his pretence was bicause the Bishops dyd receyue those into the Churche whiche had fallen in the time of persecution Afterwardes he fell into greater and mo absurdities for commonly suche as once deuide them selues from the Churche fall from errour to errour without staye This Nouatus thoughe he séemed to condemne ambition in all other men yet was he most ambitious him selfe thoughe he by vehement othes denied him selfe to desire a Bishoprike yet did he most gréedily séeke for it though he boasted of more perfection in lyfe and of a more perfecte platforme of a Churche than he thoughte others had yet was it nothing so He was the firste that I reade of that forseeke his Nouatus the first that forsooke his ministerie ministerie and that sayde Se nolle amplius presbyterum esse sed alterius Philosophiae studiosum that he woulde no longer be a Minister but a student in other Philosophie Reade Eusebius in his sixte booke of his Ecclesiasticall historie Cap. 43 and Nicephorus in his sixte booke also and third chapter Surely the storie of Nouatus is worthy to be noted bycause there be so many at these dayes which do not so much differ from him in opinions as they agrée with him in conditions You affirme that I saye The booke of common prayer to be a perfecte and absolute rule to gouerne this Churche wherin nothing is wanting or too little nor nothing running ouer or too muche If I haue sayd any suche thing quote the place that the Reader may consider of it and knowe that you speake the truthe But if I neuer eyther spake or writte any suche thing then are you a false witnesse and I haue to desire the Reader to consider of the reste of your sclaunderous reportes according to the truthe of this I haue learned with Sainct Augustine to giue this reuerence onely to the wryters of Canonicali Scriptures that I thinke none of them to haue The canonicall scriptures are only absolute perfect erred in wryting And I doe firmely beléeue that onely the bookes of the Canonicall Scripture are of that absolutenesse and perfection that nothing maye be taken awaye from them nothing added to them I doe not thinke the Communion booke to be such but that it may admitte alteration I doe not beléeue it to bée so perfecte but that there maye be bothe added to it and taken from it But thys I saye that it is a godly booke withoute any errour in substance of doctrine and nothing in it that I knowe agaynst the worde of God and those imperfections or rather motes that you saye to be in it not to be suche that any godly man oughte to stirre vp any contention in the Churche for them muche lesse to make a schisme and least of all to deuide him selfe from the Churche This is my opinion of that booke whiche vnlesse by learning and good authoritie I iustifie let me haue the blame and shame of it I will not enter into your heartes to iudge what you thinke of your inwarde puritie whiche notwithstanding in comparison you haue in this present place arrogated vnto your selues that very perfection of an outwarde platforme of a Churche whiche you chalenge vnto your selues is one steppe to Nouatianisme and well deserueth the name of Catharisme ¶ Of the authoritie of the Churche in things indifferent Tract 2. Some thinges may be tollerated in the Churche touching order ceremonies discipline and kinde of gouernmente not expressed in the word of God Chap. 1. the first Diuision Admonition SEing that nothing in thys mortall lyfe is more diligently to bee soughte for and carefully to bee looked vnto a 2. Reg. 23. 3. Chro. 17. 2. Chro. 29. 30. 31. Psal. 132. 2. 3. 4. Mat. 21. 12. Ioh. 2. 15. than the restitution of true religion and reformation of Gods Churche it shall bee your partes dearely beloued in this present Parliamente assembled as muche as in you lyeth to promote the same and to employe your whole laboure and studie not onely in abandoning all Popishe remnauntes bothe in ceremonies and regimente but also in bringing in and placing in Gods Churche those thinges onely whiche the Lorde him selfe b Deut. 4. 2. Deut. 12. 32. in hys worde commandeth Bicause it is not mought to take paynes in taking away euill c Psal. 37. 27. Rom. 12. 9. but also to be occupied in placing good in the steade thereof Nowe bicause many men see not all thinges and the d 1. Cor. 2. 14 worlde in thys respecte is maruellously blinded it hathe beene thoughte good to profer to your godly consyderations a true platforme of a Churche reformed to the ende that it beeing layde before your eyes to beholde the greate vnlykenesse betweene it and thys our Englishe Churche you maye learne eyther with perfecte e Psal. 31. 6. Psal. 139. 22. hatred to deteste the one and with singular loue to embrace and carefull endeuour to plante the other or else to be without excuse before f Iohn 15. 21. the maiestie of our God who for the discharge of our conscience manifestation of his truthe hathe by vs reuealed vnto you at this presente
that that they whiche are most pure ought to be chosen c. For else why dothe he adde and saye sancimus we haue decreed and not rather they haue decréed But the words that follow are most playne quoties sacerdotalem sedem c. as oft as it shall happen that the roome of a Priest shall be voyd the inhabitants of that citie shall giue their voices of three c. for where did the Apostles euer appoint that thrée should stand in the election or what example haue you of it in the whole scripture so that you sée héere no one prescript rule or example of the Apostles in all poynts folowed but that order to be taken and law made by the Emperoure whiche he thought for that state and time of the Church to be most conuenient In Nouellis he séemeth to declare what is meant by the inhabiters of that citie for Constitutio 123. thus it is written Sequentes igitur ea c. Folowing therefore those thinges whiche are decreed in the holy Canons wee make this pragmaticall lawe by the whyche we decree that as ofte as it shall be necessary to ordeyne a Byshop the Cleargie and primates of the citie for the whiche the Byshop is to be ordeyned shall assemble togyther and the Euangelies being layde before them shall agree and determine vppon three persons And euery one of them shall sweare by the holy word of God and that to be enrolled with their determination that they haue not chosen these men eyther for rewarde or for promise or for friendship or fauour or for any other affection but only bycause they know them to be of the true and catholike faith and of honest conuersation and that they are aboue fiue and thirtie yeares olde So that it is plaine that by the inhabitants of the citie he meaneth the Cleargie and the chiefe persons of the citie It followeth in the same constitution Vt ex tribus illis personis quae d cretis hoc modo eliguntur melior ordinetur electione iudicio eius qui ordinandi ius habet That of those three which are in this sort chosen the best may be ordeyned by the election and iudgement of him that hath the authoritie to ordeyne And this last clause may be an interpretation also of the meaning of that constitution ex codice that is that the inhabitants choose thrée of whome the Metropolitane should choose one to be Byshop for it is euident that the Metropolitane had ius ordinandi and that lawe in codice differeth not one whit from this constitution The words of Carolus Magnus make with me rather than against me for in that he saith secundùm statuta canonum de propria dioecesi according to the statutes of the Canons of that diocesse he plainly signifyeth that in sundry diocesse there be sundry kinds and maners of elections else would he haue said secundùm statuta canonum Apost according to the statutes of the canons of the Apostles or sacrae scripturae of the holy scripture or such like But that which followeth in the same law maketh the matter manifest Praecipimus etiam omnibus c. we will also and commaund all those which are subiect to our iurisdiction that no man attempt to spoyle the priuiledges of the Churches Monasteries or the Churches themselues c meaning no doubt touching elections That of Ludouike dist 63. declareth also that it was in the Emperoures power to alter the manner of elections or to establishe them for else to what purpose were these lawes and Confirmations made All this verifyeth my assertion and proueth playnely that the manner and forme of calling and electing Ministers is and hathe bene in the power of the ciuill Magistrate to order as shall be moste expedient for the present state of the Churche if the Prince thinke it conuenient that the people shoulde haue voyces in suche elections they maye so haue if not there is no lawe of God dothe bynde them to it and that doe all those lawes of Emperours manifestly proue Chap. 6. the eight Diuision T. C. Pag. 36. Sect. 4. 5. Platina also in the lyfe of Pope Adrian the seconde writeth that Ludouike the second by his letters (a) An yntruth for he only com mendeth them for so doing he doth not commaund them to do o. commaunded the Romains that they should choose their owne bishop not loking for other mens voyces which being strangers could not so well tell what was done in the common weale where they were strangers and that it apperteyneth to the citizens The same Platina witnesseth in the lyfe of Pope Leo the. 8. that when the people of Rome were earnest with the Emperour Otho the fyrst that he would take away one Pope Iohn y t liued verie licentiously riotously place an other the same Emperor answered that it perteined to the clergie and people to choose one and willed them that they should choose and he would approue it and when they had chosen Leo and after put him out without cause and chose one Pope Bennet he compelled them to take Leo againe Wherby appeareth that in those estates where Magistrates were Christian and where the estate was moste of all Monarchicall that is subiecte to ones gouernmente and also when the Church put out any without good cause that then the Magistrates should compell the Churches to doe their dutie In deede the Bishop of Rome gaue the election then into the Emperou his handes bycause of the lightnesse of the people as Platina maketh mention but that is not the matter for I doe nothing else here but shew that the elections of the ministers by the Churche were vsed in the times of the Emperours and by their consentes And seyng that Otho confessed it perteyned not vnto him it is to be doubted whether hee tooke it at the Bishop his handes Io. Whitgifte You haue not truly reported the wordes of Platina in the first place for he sayth Platina falsifyed by T. C not that the Emperour Ludouike did commaund the Romains that they should choose their own Bishop but that he commended them for their godlie and sound choise His wordes be these Superuenere à Ludouico Imperatore literae quibus Romanos admodùm laudat quòd summum Platina in vita Adriani 2. Pontificem sanctè integrè creassent There came letters from Ludouike the Emperoure wherin he praiseth the Romans very muche bicause they had holily and syncerely created the high Priest c. But Platina declareth how tumultuous an election that was and howe iniuriously the Emperours Embassadors were secluded from the same hauing therin interest and although the Emperoure was contente to put vp that iniurie and to commend that election peraduenture for some worldly respect yet it is manifest that then the Bishops of Rome began to vsurpe vppon the authoritie of the Emperour and to seclude him from hauing any interest in their elections M. Bale Bale speaking of this election
sayth Vi enim eligendi pontificis potestatem ad se tunc rapiebant Romani For the Romaines then tooke by force vnto them selues power to choose their Bishop The second place of Platina argueth the vndiscretenesse of the people both in placing and displacing their Bishop and the authoritie of the Emperour in taking this authoritie of placing and displacing from them when they doe abuse it for here hée put out Benet whom they had chosen placed Leo whom they had displaced wherby it appeareth that there was not then any one suche prescripte forme of electing the Bishop of Rome but that it was in the authoritie of the Emperour to abrogate alter or chaunge it All this is nothing to the improuing of my assertion for I denie not but that the people had interest in elections of Bishops in diuers places and especially in the Church of Rome a long tyme But this dothe not proue that there is any prescript rule in Scripture for the election of ministers whiche maye not be altered and chaunged from tyme to tyme as shall be moste conuenient for the presente state of the Churche naye whatsoeuer ye haue hitherto sayde proueth the contrarie Platina doth not write that Otho coufessed that the election of the Byshop of 〈◊〉 did not perteyne vnto him you should haue a care to report the words of the author truly it is one thing to say that the election of the Byshop perteyneth to the Cleargie and people another thing to say that it perteyned not to him for it might perteine to them al. And the same Platina in the life of Io. 13. saithe that after Iohn was condemned by a councell and therefore fled away the Emperoure Otho at the request of the Cleargie did create Leo Byshop of Rome his words are these Hanc ob causam Otho persuadente Platina in 〈◊〉 ta Ioan ▪ 13 clero Leonem Romanum ciuem Lateranensis ecclesiae Scriniarium Pontificem creat For thys cause Otho by the perswasion of the Cleargie chooseth Leo a Citizen of Rome and keper of the monuments of the Church of Laterane to be Byshop He further in that place declareth how the people after the Emperours departure deposed Leo and placed Benet and how the Emperoure by force compelled them to place Leo agayne That Otho the Emperoure did take this graunt at the Byshops hands that the election of the Byshop should be in him and not in the people M. Bale testifyeth in manifest words in the life of Leo. 8. where he saith thus After he tooke from the Cleargie and people of Rome the power of choosing their Byshop whiche Carolus Magnus had gyuen Bale in vita Leon. 8. vnto them before and by a Synodall decree did commit the same to Otho the Emperoure for the auoyding of seditions whiche were wont to be in these elections and Otho receyuing this graunt thankfully that he mighte shewe himselfe agayne beneficiall towards the Sea of Rome restored all things which Constantine is feyned to haue giuen c. In the which words also it is to be noted y t this libertie of choosing their Byshop was granted vnto the people and Cleargie of Rome by Carolus Magnus the which not only M. Bale testifyeth in this place but M. Barnes also in these words Leo the. 8. vnderstanding the wickednesse of the Romaines in obtruding their friends to the Church by bribes threatnings and other wicked deuises did restore the interest of choosing the Byshop to Otho the Emperoure Whereof I also conclude that it is in the power of the ciuill magistrate to take order for elections of ministers and that the consent of the people is not of any necessitie required therevnto Chap. 6. the. 9. Diuision T. C. Page 36. Sect. 6. And if the Emperours permitted the election of the Byshop to that Citie where it made most for their suretie to haue one of their owne appoyntment as was Rome whiche with their Byshops did oftentimes put the good Emperoures to trouble it is to be thought that in other places both cities and townes they did not denie the elections of ministers to the people besides that certaine of those constitutions are not of Rome but of any citie whatsoeuer And these Emperours were and liued betwene 500. and odde yeares vntill the very poynte of a thousande yeares after Christ so that hitherto this libertie was not gone out of y e Church albeit the Pop which brought in all tyrannie and went about to take all libertie from the Churches was now on horse back and had placed himselfe in that Antichristian seate Io. Whitgifte In that the Emperours did but permitte such elections to the people it is manifest that the interest was in them else why should they be said to haue permitted it In déed true it is that the Emperours so long did remitte of their interest in suche elections that afterwards when they would haue claymed their right therein they coulde not obteyne it but by violence were shut from all as the histories manifestly deelare Hitherto you haue proued nothing in question neyther haue you reasoned ad I de m T. C. hath not reason ad idem for you shoulde either haue proued that the election of ministers dothe of necessitie perteyne to the people or that the same manner of electing is conueniente for thys Church of England in this time and state both which I haue improued and do still vtterly denie neyther dothe any thing that you haue alleadged proue eyther of them Chap. 6. the. 10. Diuision Ansvvere to the Admonition Page 45. Sect. 3. Therefore this diuersitie of the state of the Church requireth a diue s kinde of gouernmente and another kinde of ordeyning ministers For this cause in Concilio Laodicensi whiche was Anno. 334. it was Concil Laodic decreed that the election of ministers shoulde not be permitted to the people T. C. Page 37. Sect. 1. 2. Those that write the Centuries (a) This is vntrue as shall appeare suspect this canon and doubt whether it be a bastard or no considering the practise of the Church But heere or euer you were aware you haue striken at your selfe For before you sayd that this order of choosing the minister by voyces of the Church was (b) An vntruth for I said not so but in the Apostles time and during the time of persecution And the firste time you can alleadge this libertie to be taken away was in the. 334. yeare of our Lord which was at the least 31. yeares after that Constantine the great began to reygne I say at the least bycause there be good authors that say that this councell of Laodicea was holdē Anno. 338. after the death of Ioninian the Emperoure and so there is 35. yeares betweene the beginning of Constantines reygne and this councell Now I thinke you will not say that the Church was vnder (c) The Churche was vnder persecution in Constantines time by the space of 13. yeares for
For proofe of all that I haue here sayde I referre my selfe to common experience and the like pract ses in other Churches by persons of much like disposition as the notes in the beginning of the second edition of my Answer to the Admonition doth more 〈◊〉 large declare What that lawfull eccles asticall gouernment of those which you say God hath appoynted in his word is ▪ and whether it verifyeth my saying or no shall be séene whē we come to that part of your Replie Certain it is that you would transferre both the authoritie of the Prince Archbyshop and Bishop to your selues and your seniors ▪ for that is the lawfull ecclesiasticall gouernment you meane And those be the persons whome you thinke God to haue appoynted in his word as it will fall out more euidētly hereafter Ansvver to the Admonition Pag. 87. Sect. 2. Wherefore you that be in authoritie if you loue the peace and prosperitie An exhortation to those that be in authoritie of the Church of Christ if you desire the good successe of the Gospell if you will preserue the state of this Realme if you thinke it necessary to haue good magistrates to haue good lawes and orders in a common wealth if you esteeme learning and seeke to preferre it if you hate anarchian confusion Anabaptisme if you allowe of your owne condition ▪ and like of a kingdome better than of a popular state Then prouide betime some speedy remedy for these and suche like kind of men and if the religion you haue established be good if the orders and lawes you haue made be conuenient let them not be written against spoken against nay openly contemned and broken withoute sharpe and seuere punishment suffer not suche as execute them to be contemned hated discouraged and oftentimes frumped Lawekeepers contemned by some superiours Either let your lawes be mainteined as lawes or else deliuer vs from our dutie in executing and obeying of them T. C. Pag. 124. Sect. 2. He turneth him self to those that be in authoritie whom he would make beleue that it standeth vpon the ouerthrow of the church of religion of order of the Realme of the state of Princes of Magistrates which are by this meanes established and whose estates are made this way most sure when as the true causes of these clamors and outcries that M. Doctor maketh is nothing else but the feare of the ouerthrow of that honoure which is to the dishonor of God and ignomune of his Church and which maketh to the good dispensing of these goodes for the ayd and helpe of the Church which now serue to oppresse it Io. Whitgifte It shall be sufficient to referre the consideration of this your answer to such as be in authoritie who can best consider of both our meanings Ansvvere to the Admonition Pag. 88. Sect. 1. Touching the Court of faculties I cannot say muche for I haue no great experience of it and lesse knowledge in the lawe notwithstanding The Court of faculties bycause by lawful authoritie it is allowed in this Realme I cannot but reuerently iudge of it for in such matters I thinke it a poynt of modesty to suppose the best and to absteine from cōdemning of that gouernment whiche is allowed as conuenient If there be faultes in the officers they may be corrected T. C. Pag. 124. Sect. 2. As for the Court of faculties the corruptions thereof being so cleare that all men see them and so grosse that they which cannot see may grope them M. Doctor answereth that he knoweth not what it meaneth and therefore is moued of modesty to thinke the best of it whiche is but a simple shift For besides that that the Admonition speaketh nothing of it but that the streates and high wayes talke of if there had bin any defense for it it is not to be thought that M. Doctor woulde haue bin so negligent an aduocate as to haue omitted it seeing if he were ignorant he mighte haue had so easily and with so little cost the knowledge of it As for his modesty his bolde asseueration of things which are doubtfull which are false which are altogyther vnlikely which are impossible for him to know doth sufficiently bewray and make so well knowne that no such visard or paynting can serue to make men beleeue that meere modesty shut vp his mouth from speaking for the Court of faculties which hath opened his mouth so wide for the defense of those things wherein as it falleth out he hathe declared himselfe to haue lesse skill and vnderstanding than he hathe of that Court. Io. Whitgifte I haue spoken my cōscience of that Court neither did I cōferre with any to giue me any instructions concerning it And surely as I thought then so do I think now I haue affirmed nothing which I will not stand to except you can conuince me by better reasons than I haue heard any as yet That Court hath the original and authoritie from the Prince it is established and confirmed by Parliament it medleth nothing with that that perteyneth to the office eyther of Byshop or Pastor The principall officers be the Lord Chauncellour and the Archbyshop It maynteyneth the Quéenes prerogatiue in causes ecclesiasticall and was erected the. 25. reare of King Henry the eyght by authoritie of Parliāment to the suppressing and vtter abolishing of the Byshop of Romes iurisdiction It medleth not for any thing that I know with matters that by learning can be proued to be against the word of God and in some poynts it cannot without inconuenience be missed But this is a matter of pollicie and therefore I leaue the further consideration of it to suche as God hathe committed the gouernmente of thys realme vnto to whome it dothe especially apperteyne Of preaching before the administration of the Sacramentes Tract 12. The first Diuision Admonition Now to the second point which concerneth ministration of sacraments In the olde time the word was (t) Math. 3. 12. preach d before they were ministred now it is supposed to be sufficient if it be read Ansvver to the Admonition Pag. 89. Sect. 1. 2. 3. The second external note of the true Church of Christ is ministring The second externall note of the church of the Sacraments sincerely you would proue that this Church of England hath not the Sacraments sincerely ministred first by three generall reasons perteyning to both the sacramēts then by certaine abuses which you find seuerally in either of them The first generall reason is this In olde time the worde was preached before the Sacraments were ministred now it is supposed to be sufficient if it be red To proue that the word was preached before the Sacramentes were ministred you alleadge the third of Matthew vers 12. VVhich hath his fanne in his hand and vvill make cleane his flovver and gather his vvheate into his garner but vvill burne vp the chaffe vvith vnquenchable fire I vnderstand not how you can of this place conclude that there
Sozom. lib. 1. cap. 17 tom con to the Fathers of the Nicene Councell and to the Ecclesiasticall persons there gathered whiche he dothe also permitte the Byshops Elders and Deacons of Churches to do (*) A great ouersight eyther by correcting or adding or making newe if neede be And by the continuall practise of the Churche in the tyme of Christian Emperours whiche alwayes permitted vnto the ministers assembled in councels ▪ as well the determination of controuersies whiche rose as the making or the abolishing of needefull or hurtfull ceremonies as the ease requyred Also by the Emperours epistle in the first action of the councell of Constantinople where by the epistle of the Emperour it appeareth that it was the manner of the Emperours to confirme the ordināces which were made by the ministers and to see them kept Io. Whitgifte I learne in Eusebius Lib. 1. de vita Constan. that Constantinus is called as it were Euseb. lib. 1. de vita Const. Constantinus his rule in ecclesiasticall matters a generall Bishop appoynted of God that he also called Synodes and placed the moderator in them I learne in that seconde Booke that he made lawes and constitutions perteyning to holynesse towardes God and to the appoynting of meete thinges for the Churches of God that there shoulde be no Images worshipped none erected and set vp no enchauntmentes vsed or so thsayinges And I learne in that same Epistle Lib. 2. by you quoted that Constantinus prescribed to Eusebius what he shoulde do and what Epist. ad Eusel he should will others to do in buylding and repayring of Church ▪ s or enlarging of them neyther is there mention made of anyother Lawes or constitutions in that Epistle 〈◊〉 grosse ouersight of T. C. and surely I beleeue that those woordes whiche Constantinus speaketh to Eusebius of buylding or repayring or enlarging Churches buylded of stone you vnderstande of making restoring or enlarging of Ecclesiasticall orders and Lawes whiche if you do as your woordes playnely signifie then vnderstande you not the place abuse your Reader and caste away an argument For Constantinus woordes to Eusebius be thesc Howe hitherto by that wicked sentence and tyrannie persecuting Lib. 2. Eus. de vita Con lant Epist. ad Eus. the Ministers of our Sauiour the buyldinges of the Churches are decayed and weakened thorough negligence or soulde and made vyle for feare of imminent daunger I knowe and am fully perswaded but nowe libertie beyng restored and that Dragon thorough the prouidence of God and our ministerie banished from the gouernment of the common wealth I thinke Gods power is made manifest to all and that those whiche haue fallen into certayne sinnes eyther for feare or thorough vnbeleefe and nowe knowe the truthe Eusthius gouernour of me churches than one will returne agayne to the true and right waye of lyfe therefore admonishe all Churches whiche thou doest gouerne or any other Churches vnder the gouernment of other Bishops Priestes or Deacons that they be diligent aboute the buyldyng of theyr Churches and that they eyther repayre suche as stande still or enlarge them or if necessitie requyre buylde them newe and thou thy selfe or other for thee may requyre of the gouernours and Magistrates in the prouinces those thinges that be necessarie It is playne that Constantine in these woordes speaketh onely of materiall Churches and therefore you are greatly deceyued But if it were as you say do you not sée howe it maketh agaynst The place agaynst 〈◊〉 your selfe for what dothe more plainely appeare in that you saye he permitteth this vnto the Bishops c. than that the authoritie was in him and they were but his vicegerentes The continuall practise of Christian Churches in the tyme of Christian Magistrates Christian Princes haue exercised su authoritie in ecclesiastical cases Sozomenus lib. 1. cap. 17. before the vsurpation of the Bishop of Rome hath bene to giue to Christian Princes supreme authoritie in making Ecclesiasticall orders and lawes yea and that whiche is more in deciding of matters of religion euen in the chiefe and principall poyntes And that booke and chapter of Sozomene by you quoted declareth the same For the Bishops that came to the Councell of Nyce committed the hearing determining of theyr controuersies to the Emperour which argueth that it was then a common and vndoubted opinion receyued among them that the Emperour had authoritie to iudge in their causes and although the Emperour of modestie refused so to do saying that it was not meete for them so to vse themselues that they shoulde be iudged of other yet I am sure you will not make this a rule to exempt the Cleargie from the iurisdiction of the Ciuill Magistrate vnlesse you will take holde with the Pope and saie VVe muste iudge all and be iudged of none ▪ This modestie in Constantinus in refusing to heare the matters in controuersis among the Bishops excepted there is nothing in that firste booke and 17 ▪ chapter of Sozomene that can by any meanes serue your turne If you say that he woulde not determine any thing agaynst Arius heresie but A wise prince will take the aduise of the learned in discussing of weighty matters committed the same to the Synode and Councell of Nice I answere that therein be nothing at all abridged his authoritie ▪ but shewed his wisedome and godly care For it is the parte of a wise and godly Prince to haue such weightie matters of doctrine beyng in controuersie decreed and determined by suche as for their authoritie wisedome and learning are moste fitte to entreate of suche matters But alas how doth this argument follow Constantinus called the Councell of Nice to determine certayne matters of religion in controuersie therefore he had no authoritie to make Ecclesiasticall orders and lawes What Councell of Constantinople was that if you meane the. 5. beyng celebrated Iustinian made many Ecclesiasticall lawes Anno. 549. in the tyme of Iustinianus it is a very late testimonie for this cause the Bishops of Rome beyng then in great authoritie and yet manifest it is that no Emperour made mo Ecclesiasticall lawes bothe concerning matters of order and also of doctrine than did the Emperour Iustinianus as may be séene in the Code vnder these Titles De summa trinitate fide Catholica De sacrosanctis Ecclesijs de Episcopis Clericis de Haereticis Manichaeis Samaritanis ne sanctum Baptisma iteretur de statuis imaginibus and a number such like If you meane the sixth Councell of Constantinople as it lyke you do then are you without my compasse for that Councell was Anno. 681. and who will alleage Constantinus ▪ rogon ▪ gouerned the councell of Constantinople on 681. any authoritie of that corrupt tyme for any suche matter in controuersie and yet it is certayne that Constantinus the Emperoure did gouerne that Councell and that the Bishops on bothe sides did pleade before him at
a little after hee sayeth That hee coulde not omitte those businesse withoute the omittyng of his dutye To the same effecte dothe he speake in that Treatise that is among his Episiles in number an hundreth and ten where he desyreth the people that they woulde not moleste hym for the space of fyue dayes wyth theyr worldely matters by reason of certayne busynesse commytted vnto hym as it appeareth in these woordes It pleaseth mee and you for the care of the scriptures whych the brethren and fathers my fellowe Byshops dydde vouchesafe to laye vppon mee in Ang. epi. 110. the Councells of Numidia and Carthage for the space of fyue dayes no man shoulde trouble mee These thynges were propounded you were contente youre decree and consente was rehersed it was kepte but a small tyme and afterwardes you did violently brust in vnto mee neyther coulde I bee suffered to doe that whyche I woulde In the forenoone and in the after noone I am troubled with mennes busynesse I desyre you for Chrystes sake to suffer me to committe the care of my troubles to Eradius this yong man and prieste whome thys daye in the name of Christ I appoynt to be your bishop and my successour Possidonius nameth no elders but speaketh onely of Augustine and whosoeuer shall with diligence pervse the nintéenth chapter of Possidonius shall be enforced to confesse that he meaneth Augustine was occupyed as well in ciuill as ecclesiasticall matters and in determinyng of them as in writyng of letters for them or in giuyng of counsell Wherefore this example of Augustine is moste fitly alleaged of the Bishop of Sarum and manyfestly declareth what was the vse in his dayes touching suche matters Chap. 3. the. 15. Diuision The Bishop of Sarū in the defense of the Apol. in the. 5. parte 4. chap. 2. sect T. C. Pag. 171. Sect. 2. And for the truth of thys matter that ministers oughte not to meddle wyth ciuill affayres (*) But you shall not fynde him contrary to him selfe as you surmyse I will appeale to no other than to the Bishop himselfe who doth assume playnly the same that the admonition here affirmeth Io. Whitgifte In that place the Bishop of Sarisburie speaketh onely of the Pope who vsurpeth M. Iewell speaketh not againste ciuill o ces in ministers simply but allowed them by his owne practise the whole and full authoritie of a secular Prince and doth chalenge the same iure diuino by the authoritie of Gods worde He speaketh not of suche Bishops to whome so muche ciuill authoritie is committed by the Prince as maye serue to the correction of vice and good and quyet gouernmente of the Churche forsomuch as he did himselfe exercyse the same And surely it is not well done of you thus to charge that worthie man with contrarieties vniustly For doth he that confuteth the Popes vniust claime and vngodly vsurpation of both the swords in that maner y t he claymeth vseth them condemne al maner kind of ciuil iurisdctiō by christian Princes committed to Bishops being helpes vnto them in dooing their duetie and tendyng to the good and quiet gouernmente of the Churche Surely you are good in confounding but too bad in distinguishing wherefore you haue vntruly reported of that worthie Bishop Chap. 3. the. 16. Diuision T. C. Pag. 171. Sect. 3. And therfore I conclude that forsomuche as (*) Wherefare you not asha med of vutruthi bothe the holie scriptures do teache that ministers ought not to meddle with ciuil offices and reason and the practise of the Church do confirme it that they ought to kepe themselues within the limites of the ministerie and ecclesiastical functions least whylest they breake forth into the callyng of a Magistrate in stead of shewing them selues 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 that is ouerseers they be founde to declare themselues 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 that is busy bodies medlyng in things which belong not vnto them And thus putting them in remembrance of that whiche they knowe well mough that they ought 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 ▪ 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 that is to say studie to adorne that charge whiche they take in hand and do professe I leaue to speake any further of this matter Io. Whitgifte Melchisedech being a Priest did exercise ciuill iurisdiction for he was king of Salem The scriptures teach that ecclesiasticall persons maye haue ciuill iurisdiction Gen 14. Aaron being a Priest did iudge the whole people in temporall matters euen in causes of inheritance Num. 27. In the. 17. of Deuteronomie there is a commaundement that ciuill matters of difficultie shal be referred to the Priests and to the iudge Elye and Samuel Priests did iudge the people in matters temporall Gen. 14. Nume 27. Deut. 17. 1. Sam. The people of Israell after theyr captiuitie were gouerned by Priestes and Prophetes as by Esdras Nehemias Mattathias c. The Scripture in no place commaundeth the contrarie nor moueth vnto it yet you are not ashamed to say that the holye scriptures doe teache that ministers oughte not to meddle with ciuill offices Lykewyse in Augustines tyme it is euidente by the woordes before recited The practise of the churche concerning ciuill offices in ministers that it was not straunge but vsuall and counted a péece of duetie for Bishops to deale in Ciuil causes and that as Iudges The authours of the Centuries in the fourth Centur. chap. 7. say that Bishops in that age did giue sentence in ciuil causes if anye didde appeale from the Ciuill courtes to their authoritie Sozomene Lib. 1. cap. 9. Bishops gaue sentence in ciuil causes Cent. 4. cap. 7. Sozom. li. 1. cap. 9. wryteth thus of Constantine the Emperour This was a greate argumente of his good affection towardes Christian religion that he made a lawe for the freedome of clearkes in all places and also hee gaue libertie for those that were called into iudgemente to appeale to the Bishops if they were disposed to refuse the ciuill magistrates and he commaunded that their sentence should stand and be of more force than the sentence of the Appeale graū ted from ciuill magistrates to Bishops other iudges euen as though it had proceeded from the Emperour hymselfe And that the Magistrates and their ministers should see that acomplished that was determined and iudged in suche causes by the Bishops Nicephorns lib. 7. cap. 9. maketh mention of one Philaeas a Bishop that was greatly Niceph. lib. 7. cap. 9. commended for his wisedome and dexteritic in determining ciuill matters committed vnto him Sozomene lib. 6. cap. 32. testifieth of Epiphanius Bishop of Salamine Soz. li. 6. c. 32. Epiphanius busied with ciuill canses that together with his pastorall office he was occupyed and that with greate commendation in ciuill and politike affaires Eusebius lib. 7. cap. 32. testifieth that Dorotheus being a Priest of the Churche of Euseb. lib. 7. cap. 32. Antioche and wel learned did scrue the
hath not knowledge is by my example edi ied or strengthened to weare a Surp sse wherof he can tel no ground why he should weare it and so sinneth agaynst his con and for this cause S. Paule concludeth that that which a man may o in respect of him selfe may not be done and is not lawfull to be done in respect of other Io. Whitgifte If to weare a surplis were an offence to the weake or if there were not manifest The weake are not offended but they which accōpte them selues most strong groundes in Scripture suche I meane as commaunde obedience to superiours to proue the wearing of the surplis to be lawfull then were it some thyng that you saye But seeing suche onely be offended therewith as accompte themselues most strong and condemne other of infirmitie séeing also that obedience to Magisirates in such indifferent things hath manifest groundes in scripture and to doubt of obedience in suche matters is in eff cte to plucke the Magistrate his sworde out of his hand this reason hath not so muche as any similitude of probabilitie in it Is there any minister of the Churche for of suche only is the Surplis required that will rather bée moued to weare a surplis by the example of an other than by the consideration of his duetie towardes the lawe and 〈◊〉 of the Churche by due authoritie in a lawfull and indifferent thing appointed you might make the same reason serue to plucke downe the Churche the Pulpit the Belles yea to ouerthrowe all orders and all lawes in things indifferent whiche all haue the same grounde of obedience that the surplis hath In the Conf ssion of the Dutche Churche in London whiche is allowed by the Things indifferēt chāge their nature be g cōmanded or forbidden Confess Ec les Belgiog rman Churche of GENEVA and diuers other reformed Churches whereof I haue made mention before it is thus written of things indifferent Things otherwyse indifferent of themselues after a sorte chaunge their nature when by some comma ndement they are eyther commaunded or forbidden bycause neyther they can bee omitted contrarie to the commaundement if they be once commaunded neyther done contrarie to the prohibition if they be prohibited as it appeareth in the Ceremoniall lawe So that the grounde why a man shoulde weare the surplis béeing an indifferente thyng as you co fesse it to be can not be vnknowne to any but suche as know not the ground of their obedience towardes authoritie It is true that in some things indifferent a man must haue respect to the weakenesse In what kind of 〈◊〉 thinges we ughte to haue a resp ct of the we ke of his brother and absteyne from doing that whiche he might lawfully doe rather than to off nde his brother But that is in suche indifferente thynges as bée not by any lawe commaunded or forbidden but lefte frée to euery man to do or not to doe As if to weare the Surplis were by no lawe commaunded but lefte to euery mannes owne disposition then surely if there were any weake offended with the wearyng of it I oughte to absteyne for the weake hys sake but béeyng by lawfull authoritie commaunded to weare it if I should refuse so to do I shoulde offend against the Magistrate and against God who by his Apostle hath giuen thys commaundement omnis anima potestatibus c. let euery soule be subi ct to the higher power Rom. 1 c. which is to be vnderstanded in all things that are not against God And therfore if any man be offended with me in so doing the offence is taken it is not giuen Chap. 1. the fifth Diuision T. C. Page 52. Sect. vlt. Agayne for the stubborne Papists they take herevpon occasion to speake euill of and to bl spheme the truth of the gospell saying that our religion cannot stand by itselfe vnlesse it lea e vpon the staffe of their ceremonies and perswade themselues that those were very well deuised by their Popes that they that are their nimies to their religion cannot be without And herv on they ake occasion to hope that their other trumper e and baggage will in the nd come in againe which ca seth them to be more frosen in their wickednesse and shut their eares vnto the tru h which possibly they would heare if all hope of bringing in of their Poperie were cut off Io. Whitgifte This is but a mere fancy for first it was brought into the Church before theyr Popes whome they hold vpon inuaded that seate as it is afterwards declared Secondly they be not matters that they make any greate accompt of Thirdly they know fullwell that we could be without them and that we but only for obedience sake do not much estéeme of them Wherefore this is an argument framed only vppon light coniectures But beit all this were true shall we for their fancie or fonde iudgement refuse to do that which is lawfull which we may d and which we are bound to do Or in making orders for the Church must we enquire what their opiniō wil be Then plucke downe Churches ▪ c. for of them they make a greater reck ning than they do of the surplisse or any other such like matter I thinke verely that there is not one Papist in England that doth take occasion vpon any thing reteyned in this Church to hope that their other trumperie and baggage will in the end come in gayne neyther is there any cause in respect of them why they should so hope and if they do yet I doubte not but that they shall hoppe without that hope But a man may imagine if he will that there is a man in the Moone with a tree on his backe c. and you cannot let him Chap. 1. the. 6. Diuision T. C. Page 53. Lin. 5. And let it be obserued that throughout the realme there are none that make such clamours and outcries and complaints for these ceremonies as they and those that they suborne They pretende I confe se the Queenes maiestres Imunctions and 〈◊〉 vnto them but who is so blinde as seeth not that they haue another meaning For I appeale vnto the consciences of all that knowe them whether they do it for any obedience towards hi maiestie whose death should be a thousand times better newes vnto them than hir graces mariage Io. Whitgifte The more is the pittie that they should haue suche i st cause of clamoring and that The clamors of Papists should mo the ministers to more circumspection those which should teach them obedience to God and their Prince be examples to the contrary A subtill and craftie Papist wil be glad of any cause of quarelling the more circumspect therefore ought the minister to be in taking héede lest he giue iust cause of the same But there be honest godly and zelous men also that cannot abide s che disorder and contempt whome peraduenture you would gladly straine with the note
the vnitie of the Church is conserued not by hauing one Bishop ouer all but by the agreement of the Bishops one with another For so he writeth that the church is knit and coupled togither as it were with the giue of the Bishops consenting one with an other And as for the compounding of controuersies it is manyfest that it was not done by one Byshop in a prouince but those byshops whych were neere the place where the schisme or heresie sprang For speaking of the appeasing of controuersies schismes and shewing how dyuers Bishops Li. 1. epi. 4 were drawen into the heresy of Nouatus he sayth that the vertue and strength of the Christians was not so decayed or anguished but that there was a portion of Priests which did not giue place vnto those rumes and shipwrackes of fayth And in another place he sayth therfore most deare brother the plentyfull body or company Li. 3. epi. 1 of the pr ests are as it were with the g ue of mutuall concorde and bande of vnitie ioyned togither that if any of our company be author of an heresy and goe about to destroy and rent the flocke of Christ the rest should helpe and as profitable and mercyfull shepheards gather togither the sheepe of the Lorde Whereby it is many fest that the appeasing and composing of controuersies and heresies was not then thought to be most fitte to be in one bishops hande but in as many as coulde conuemently assemble togither according to the daunger of the heresie which sprang or depe roote which it had taken or was like to take Io. Whitgifte The Bishops agrée not one whit the worse when they haue a superior by whom they may be called togither and put in minde of their office and duetie Neyther doth Cyprian deny this when he affirmeth the other For thoughe the chiefe cause of vnitie is the consente and agreement of the Bishops one with another yet to haue one that shall haue the chiefe care thereof must néedes be a great helpe thervnto euen as it is in other societies For if the Bishops were deuided among themselues at variance and had no superiour who should compounde the controuersies Our Archbishops doe not take vpon them neyther can they to decide any controuersie Howe farre our Archbishops deale in controuersies in doctrine and religion of their owne authoritie but therein doe they deale eyther according to the lawes of the Churche prouided for that purpose or else expecte a newe Parliament or Synode Neyther doth any Bishop in his Dioces otherwise meddle in suche matters than by the common consent of the Churche is appoynted vnto him and yet it was neuer otherwise taught by any but that a Bishop in hys owne Diocesse or an Archebishop in his Prouince mighte vse persuasions to ende controuersies and execute the lawes prouided for the same other kinde of deciding controuersies by any priuate authoritie I knowe none in this Church of Englande Wherfore al these allegations be but in vayne for surely not in Cyprians time was the determining of suche controuersies committed to the Pastor and Seigniorie of euery Parishe neyther doth Cyprian make mention of any suche matter if he did yet for gouernment the diuersitie of the time and state of the Church is to be considered Tract 2. 3. as I haue before noted Chap. 3. the. 13. Diuision T. C. Pag. 77. Sect. 4. And that there was in his time no such authoritie giuen as that any one might remoue the causes or controuersies which rose as now we see there is when the Bishop of the Di es taketh the matters in controuersie which rise in any Church within his Dioces from the minister Elders to whom the decision perteyneth and as when the archebishop taketh it away from the Bishop it may appeare in the same thirde Epistle of the first booke where he sayth after this sort It is ordeyned and it is equall and right that euery mans cause should be there heard where the fault was committed And a little after he sayth It is meete to handle the matter there where they maye haue both accusers and witnesses of the faulte whiche although it be spoken of them whiche fled out of Affrike vnto Rome yet the reason is generall and dothe aswell serue agaynst these ecclesiasticall persons whych wyll take vnto them the deciding of those controuersies that were done a hundred myle of them Io. Whitgifte Cyprian as I sayd speaketh not one worde of your Seigniorie in that place by you alleages he speaketh of the seueral Prouince ▪ 〈◊〉 Dioces of euery bishop would haue euery matter ended in that Prouince 〈◊〉 Diocesse where it is cōmitted therfore he speaketh there of suche as fled out of Affrica into Italie to haue their matters heard so that this place is soluted by your owne selfe It is méete that the matter should be there handled where there may be had bothe accusers witnesses And that was one of the reasons that the Councel of Affrica sed agaynst the Bishop of Rome clayming interest in hearing appeales from thence But there is no Prouince in Englande so large but that both the accusers and witnesses may be brought into any parte of it from any other parte This reason of yours maye serue better agaynst Westminster hall which is but one place to serue the whole Realme for deciding of controuersies and yet I thinke it very necessarie ▪ You may not wrest that to your purpose or proof of Seigniorie or authoritie therof whiche Cyprian speaketh of diuers Prouinces yea diuers Countreys and Nations This is no good reason Cyprian mislyked the translating of causes from Affrica to Rome Ergo there maye be no causes remoued from Northampton to London Chap. 3. the. 13. Diuision T. C. Page 77. Sect. 5. And whereas M. Doctor in bothe places of Cyprian seemeth to stande much vpon the words one Bishop and priest the reason thereof dothe appeare in another place of Cyprian moste manyfestly L 3. epi. 13 and that it maketh no more to proue that there ought to be one archebishop ouer a whole prouince than to say that there ought to be but one husbande proueth that therefore there should be but one husbande in euery countrey or prouince whiche shoulde see that all the rest of the husbands do their duties to their wiues For this was the case a Nouatian heretike beeing condemned cast out of the Churches of Affrica by the consent of the Bishops not able by embassage sent to them to obteyne to be receyued to their cōmunion fellowship agayne oeth afterwards to Rome and beeing likewise there repelled in time getteth himselfe by certayne which fauoured his heresie to be chosen Bishop there at Rome Cornelius beeing the Bishop or pastor of those which were there godly minded whervpon it commeth that Cyprian vrgeth one Bishop one priest in the church bicause at Rome there was two wherof one was a wolfe
our holydayes be some what short in number of theirs so far are we from hauing more than double as many as they had But your spirite is acquaynted with suche vntrue assertions But you saye we mighte haue all these commodities without all those daungers c. and why not as well this waye whiche the whole Churche hathe from tyme to tyme allowed as that way whiche certayne particular persons of their owne heades haue deuysed There is nothing that you haue to saye agaynst these dayes but onely their names and that those memories of Martyrs strayghten our consideration of them vnto those dayes c. and that men be inhibited from bodily labour to serue God al which I haue answered before and the latter in parte you confesse for you woulde haue certayne dayes appoynted for publike prayer the celebration of the sacraments hearing the worde and you seeme not to deny but that the remembrance of Saincts and Martyrs may be kepte onely you mislike that in the rest of the day men should be debarred from their bodily labours exercising their dayly vocations Wel I perceeue that something you woulde finde faulte with if you knewe what They are not so bounde from labour as it appeareth in the lawes of this Churche but that they may doe their necessarie businesse and in déede they are so farre from scrupulositie in thys poynte that all the punishmentes appoynted can not kéepe a number of them from their worldly affayres not in the very time of publike prayers and preaching of the worde and yet I sée no cause why they maye not iustly be wholly debarred excepte some vrgent occasion require sometime the contrarie from their bodily labours in suche dayes for are not the housholders bounde of duetie as well to instruct their families as the Pastor is bounde to instructe them and when is there a more conuenient tyme than in suche dayes If you haue suche a regarde to their worldly affayres is it not more commodious for them to abstayne wholly from worke vpon these Holydayes when they fall than twice or thrice euery wéeke halfe the daye Therefore this reason of yours as it is worldly so is it weake bothe in the respect of God and of the worlde also Your imagination that the kéeping of Easter dothe fetter the meditation of Easter to a A bayne reason fewe dayes c. and so likewyse the reste of the Holydayes I haue answered before it is a moste vayne reason and you mighte as well saye that there oughte to be no certayne tymes appoynted for the receyuing of the holy Communion bycause the meditation of the death and passion of Christe and the application of the same is fettered to these certayne dayes whiche shoulde continually be thoughte of and dayly as long as we lyue The same mighte you saye likewyse of the Sabboth daye But you oughte to knowe that the especiall celebrating of the memorie of Christes resurrection once in the yeare is no more a fettering of our meditation thereof to that daye onely than the receyuing of the Communion once in the moneth is a strayghting of our consideration of the deathe and passion of Christe to that time onely wherein we receyue the holy Sacrament By this reason of yours we muste eyther haue suche memories celebrated at all times or at no time But wyse men can consider howe farre you wander for want of reason Chap. 2. the. 4. Diuision Ansvvere to the Admonition Pag. 176. Sect. 3. 4. 5. Ierome writing vpon the. 4. chap. to the Galatians sayth on this Ierome sorte If it be not lavvfull to obserue dayes moneths times and yeres vve also fall into the like fault vvhich obserue the passion of Christ the Sabboth day and the time of Lent the feasts of Easter and of Pentecoste and other times appoynted to Martyrs according to the maner and custome of euery nation to the vvhich he that vvill ansvvere simply vvill say that our obseruing of dayes is not the same vvith the Ievvish obseruing for vve doe not celebrate the feast of vnleuened bread but of the resurrection death of Christe c. And least the confused gathering togither of the people should diminishe the fayth in Christ therfore certayne dayes are appoynted that vve might all meete togither in one place not bicause those dayes be more holy but to the intent that in vvhat day soeuer vve meete vve may reioyce to see one another c. Augustine in lyke manner Lib. 18. de ciuitate Dei cap. 27. sayth That vve honor Augustine the memories of Martyrs as of holy men and suche as haue striuen for the truthe euen to death c. The same Augustine in his boke Contra Adamantum Manachaei Discip. ca. 16. expounding the woordes of the Apostle Ye obserue dayes yeares and tymes wryteth thus But one may thinke that he speaketh of the Sabboth do not vvee say that those tymes ought not to be obserued but the thinges rather that are signified by them for they did obserue them seruilely not vnderstanding vvhat they did signifie and prefigurate this is that that the Apostle reproueth in thē in all those that serue the creature rather than the Creator for vve also solemnly celebrate the Sabboth day and Easter and all other festiuall dayes of Christians but bycause vve vnderstand vvhervnto they do appertayne we obserue not the times but those thinges vvhich are signified by the tymes c. T. C Pag. 122. Sect. 1. Nowe whereas M. Doctor citeth Augustine and Ierome to proue that in the Churches in theyr times there were holy dayes kepte besides the Lordes day he might haue also cyted Ignatius and Tertullian and Cyprian which are of greater aunctencie and would haue made more for the credite of his cause seing he measureth all his truthe almoste through the whole booke by the crooked measure and yarde of tyme. For it is not to be denied but this keeping of Holydayes especially of the Easter and Pentecoste are very auncient and that these holydayes for the remembraunce of Martyrs were vsed of long tyme but these abuses were no auncienter than other were grosser also than this was as I haue before declared and were easie further to be shewed if neede required and therefore (*) An vnlearned shifte I appeale from these examples to the Scriptures and to the examples of the perfectest Churche that euer was which was that in the Apostles tymes Io. Whitgifte I knowe that I might haue alleaged many other authorities for the proofe of The Repliee appealeth itō auncient authoritie this matter but I thought these two sufficient as they be in déede in such a matter as this is and your lightly reiecting of them will winne no credite to your cause among wise and learned menne You may easilie perceyue by the woordes of bothe these Authours that these dayes in their tyme were rightly and without all superstition vsed But you do well to appeale from these examples
that is to compell vsed agaynst suche as refuse to communicate I thinke in déede the especiall quarell is their owne bicause they haue separated them selues from the Churche and woulde not be constrayned to communicate with vs but they make their doctrine generall therby to cloke their intent Wherefore whether they do it to gratifie the Papists or no it may be doubted but certayne it is that the Papists could not haue had better Proctours Chap. 2. the. 4. Diuision T. C. Pag. 133 Lin. 37. As for the fee that M. Doctor saythe wee be worthy of for shewing our selues as he fayth so good patrons of the Pap stes he hathe giuen vs well to vnderstande what it shoulde be if he were the paymaster but as we serue the Lorde in this worke so we looke for rewarde at his hande not fearing but that the Lorde will in the ende giue suche blessing vnto our labours as we shall not neede greatly to eare at the handes of those whiche God hath placed in authoritie the rewarde which you do so often call for Io. Whitgifte Surely that ée you should looke for at my hands that it behoueth a Christiā man so giue vnto suche as continue in disturbing the Churche and yet peraduenture shoulde it not be by the twentie parte so sharpe as the fee that you woulde bestowe vpon me if it were in your power Howbeit I commit my selfe to him by whome hitherto I haue béene protected notwithstanding all the deuises and practises of slaunderous tongues and hatefull countenances and I nothing doubte but that in the ende God will turne all to his glory and profite of the Churche ¶ Of playne and simple ministring and receyuing of the Communion Chap. 3. Admonition The twelfth They ministred the Sacraments playnely we pompeously with singing pyping surplesse and cope wearing The thirtenth They simply as they h Co. 11 23 receyued it from the Lorde We sinfully mixed with mans inuentions and deuises Ansvvere to the Admonition Pag. 103. Sect. 2. 3. Pag. 104. Sect. 1. This is a very slender reason to proue that the sacrament of the Supper is not sincerely ministred bicause there is singing pyping surplesse and Cope when you shewe your reasons agaynst that pompe whiche is nowe vsed in the celebration of that Sacrament you shall heare what I haue to saye in defense of the same I thinke that there is nothing vsed in the administration thereof that dothe in any respecte contaminate it or make it impure As for pyping it is not prescribed to be vsed at the Communion by any rule that I knowe Synging I am sure you doe not disallowe beeing vsed Singing vsed in al reformed Churches in all reformed Churches and an arte allowed in Scriptures and vsed in praysing of God by Dauid Of Surplesse and Cope I haue spoken before wyl speake more hereafter as occasionis ministred There is no suche inuentions or deuises of man mixed wyth the Supper of the Lorde as can make it sinfull beeing all perteyning to edifying and to good decent order and nothing there appoynted to be done contrarie or not agreable to the Scriptures Caluine Caluine him selfe sayth in his Institutions Lib. 4. Cap. 10. That those thynges vvhiche be partes of decencie commended vnto vs by the Apostle though Decent orders be Gods traditions they be prescribed by man yet are they Gods traditions and not mans as kneeling at solemne prayer and suche like The Supper it selfe in all poynts of any moment is ministred nowe in this Churche of Englande euen as Christ deliuered it as the Apostles vsed and as the Primitiue Churche continued the same These be all the reasons you vse to proue that the Sacrament of the Supper is not rightly and sincerely ministred wherof some be impious some ridiculous and all of them vnworthy any confutation T. C. Pag. 133. Sect. 1. 2. Unto that whyche is conteyned in the two next sections in the. 103. and a peece of the. 104. pages I haue answered before partly particularly partly when I noted the general faults of the Seruice booke especially seeing that M. Doctor wyll not defende the pyping and Organes nor no other synging than is vsed in the re rmed Churches which is in the synging of two Psalmes one in the beginning and an other in the ending in a playne tune easy both to be song of those whych haue no arte in singing and vnderstanded of those whych bicause they can not reade can not sing with the rest of the Churche For that whiche is in the. 105. page and concerneth the surplesse I haue answered before Io. Whitgifte To the moste of it you haue not answered any where and the substance of it you The sacraments purely ministred haue left vntouched that is whether these things be of that weight or no that in any respect they can contaminate the sacramentes or make them impure as they b nowe vsed Neyther haue you proued or can proue that the sacraments are not ministred in this Church of Englande in all poyntes of any moment euen as Christ deliuered them the Apostles vsed them the primitiue Oecolamp in Epist. apud Gastium li. 2. de erro Catabaptist Churche continued them Touching singing piping as you cal it surplesse cope wearing I answere with Oecolampadius These things be free vnto Christians whiche holy or godly Bishops may eyther adde if it seeme vnto them conuenient and profitable for the people or take away if there be any abuse as the time requireth euen as they may also doe in other ceremonies VVe haue made no contention for externall things those things that be indifferent are not repugnant to the worde of God I haue hearde no reasons as yet to improue the manner of singing vsed in this The originall cause of the pryde of the Romishe churche Churche of England neyther do I say that I allow no other singing than is vsed in other reformed Churches For I woulde not haue any Churche to arrogate that perfection vnto it selfe that it should thinke all other Churches to be bounde vnto it it was the originall cause of the pryde of the Churche of Rome I haue onely sayde that other reformed Churches allow singing which is true ¶ Of matters touching Baptisme Tract 16. Of Interrogatories ministred to infants Chap. 1. the. 1. Diuision Admonition And as for baptisme it was inough with them if they i Act. 8. 35. 36. 37. Act. 10. 47. had water and the partie to be baptised fayth and the Minister to preach the worde and minister the Sacramentes Nowe we must haue Surplesses deuised by Pope Adrian Interrogatories ministred to the Intant Godfathers and Godmothers brought in by Higinus holy fontes inuented by Pope Pius crossing and such like peeces of Poperie which the Church of God in the Apostles tyme neuer knew and therefore not to be vsed nay which we are sure of were and are mans deuises brought in long after the