the seconde I intende to iustifie T. C. fol. 1. Sect. 4. In the. 69. page he sayth Cyprian speaking of the office of an Archbishop which is a manifest petition of the principle For it beeing that which should haue bin * It is proued sufficiently in the treaâ—se of Archbishops proued M. Doctor taketh it for graunted And in diuers places speaking of the Archbishop he goeth about to deceyue hys reader with the fallation of the equiuocation or diuers signification of the word For whatsoeuer he findeth sayde of Archbishop Bishop in times past he bringeth to establishe our Archbishops and Bishops when notwithstanding those in times past were muche different from ours and are not of that kinde as shall appeare afterwarde Io. Whitgifte As though Cyprian may not speake of the office of an Archbishop excepte he expresse his name or as though the circumstance of the place may not declare that he speaketh of suche an office But howe iustly I am heere charged with a manyfest petition of a principle I shall haue better occasion to declare when I come to answere the manyfest cauill which T. C. vseth touching that place of Cyprian Howe also in diuers places speaking of the Archbishop I go about to deceyue my reader with the fallation of equiuocation which is only sayd in this place without any maner of proofe or any one exaÌ„ple shal likewise appeare when I come to answere the replie touching that matter where it will euidently fall out that T. C. is greatly deceyued in that he supposeth the Archbishops and Bishops in times past so muche to differ from ours especially if he meane the difference to be in authoritie and office T. C. fol. 1. Sect. 5. In the. 239. page he reasoneth that for so muche as those which weare the apparel doo edifie Another vntrue collection therefore they edifie by reason of the apparell which is to make that the cause which is not but onely commeth with the cause Io. Whitgifte You deale in this as you haue done in the rest that is corruptly for the seconde reason which I there vse to proue that the apparell doth edifie is this That such as haue worne the apparell and do weare it by the ministery of the worde haue greatly edified and do dayly In the whiche argument I make not the apparell the efficient or substantiall cause of edifying but an accidentall cause For you knowe that it is an order and lawe in the Churche of Englande that none shoulde either administer the Sacraments or preache excepte he receiue the apparell appoynted forasmuche therefore as he that refuseth to weare the apparell by order of this Church may not preache and therefore can not that way edifie and he that weareth that apparell may preache and so edifie therfore the apparell per accidens doth edifie euen as the Church the Pulpit and suche other things doo whiche edifie not per se of themselues but per accidens accidentally as all other accidentall ceremonies do T. C. pag. 1. Sect. 6. In the. 240. page he reasoneth thus that the surplice c. be notes notes of good ministers therfore they be good notes of ministers which is a fallation of composition when a man thinketh that whatsoeuer is sayde of a thing by it selfe may be sayde of it when it is ioyned with another Io. Whitgifte The Admonition sayth that cappe gowne tippet c. haue the shewe of euill seeing the Popishe priesthoode is euill To the which I answering say on this sort When they were a signe and token of the Popishe priesthoode then they were euill euen as the thing was which they signified but nowe they be signes and tokens of the ministers of the worde of God which are good and therefore also they be good What can you say to this maner of speaking is it not true to say that they were signes of euill when the things that they signified were euill and nowe they be signes of good séeing the things they signifie be good and as they were euill signes when they signified euill things so they be nowe good signes bicause they signifie good things Doo we not commonly call the signes and notes good or euill euen as the things signified be good or euill None is so ignorant that knoweth not this and therefore my reason is good but your collection is like it selfe I haue vsed no other maner of reasoning or speaking in this place than M. Bucer dothe in the same matter Fol. 59. 60. And therefore this is rather spoken agaynst him than agaynst me T. C. pag. 1. Sect. 7. In the. 149. page he reasoneth thus Those which authorized the booke of Common prayer were studious of peace and buylding the Churche therefore those which finde faulte with it are pullers downe of the Church and disturbers of the peace which is a fallation of the Accident when a man thinketh that euery thing which is verified of the subiect may be likewise verified of that which is annexed vnto it The further confutation of the which arguments I referre vnto their places Io. Whitgifte The AdmonitioÌ„ sayth that those persons in which and by whom the booke of Common prayer was first authorised were studious of peace and of buylding vp of Christes Churche Wherevpon I conclude that if that be true then the defacers of that booke be disturbers of the peace Which I gather of that that they theÌ„ selues haue grauÌ„ted and as I am perswaded truely neither doo I vnderstande howe it can be made a fallation ab accidente For I thinke that the meaning of the authors of the Admonition is that these men shewed them selues desirous of peace and of buylding vp the Church euen in collecting and authorising that booke or else to what purpose shoulde they make any mention of them whiche if it be true as it is then the argument muste of necessitie followe T. C. pag. 1. Sect. 8. There be diuers other which he hath which are so farre from iuste conclusions as they haue not so muche as any colour of likelyhoode of argument whiche I can not tell where to lodge vnlesse I put them in the common inne which is that whiche is called the ignorance of the Elench As in the. 68. page when he concludeth thus * An vntruthe for there is no such aagument â–ª that Cyprian speaketh not of the Bishop of Rome Ergo he speaketh of an Archbishop Io. Whitgifte I might héere iustly quarell with you for leaping so disorderly sometimes forward and sometimes backwarde as from the. 240. page to the. 149. and from that to the 68. c. But I let al such things passe and come to the matter In the. 68. page as you quote it but in déede the. 69. after I haue declared the true meaning of Cyprian I adde that Cyprian there speaketh not of the vsurped authoritie of the Bishop of Rome ouer all Churches but agaynst the insolencie of some which despising their Metropolitane or
ministration and thereby helpeth somewhat in the way of comelinesse and order to the encrease of faithe VVhat I pray you can be brought out of the scriptures why that Churche is not left to hir owne iudgement in this matter neyther therefore to be contemned or to be called into question for hir iudgement sake That Church verely will keepe in these things a meane agreable to the crosse of Christ and will diligently attend that no abuse creepe into it Hitherto M. Bucer To the like effect also writeth M. Martyr in the epistle before named Chap. 7. the. 5. Diuision Ansvver to the Admonition Fol. 239. Sect. 1. Furthermore that they do edify it is manifest firste bycause they The apparell doth tend to edifying for three causes are by a lawfull magistrate by lawfull authoritie for order and decencie appoynted in the Church without any manner of superstition or suspicion of the same T. C. Pag. 57. Sect. vlt. Then he bringeth reasons to proue it whereof in the first he seemeth to reason that bycause it is commaunded by a lawfull magistrate and lawfull authoritie therefore it edifyeth As though a lawfull magistrate doth nothing at any time vnlawfully or as though a lawfull and a godly magistrate doth not sometimes commaund things which are inconuenient and vnlawfull Saule was a lawfull magistrate and did commaund vnlawfull things Dauid was a lawfull and godly magistrate and yet there flipt from him commaundements which were neyther lawfull nor godly But he addeth that it is done for order and for decencie without superstition or suspition of it This is that which is in controuersie and ought to be proued and M. Doctor still taketh it as graunted and still faulteth in the petition of the principle wherewith he chargeth others Io. Whitgifte That whiche is appointed in the Church by a lawfull magistrate and by lawfull authoritie for order and decencie without any superstition or suspition of superstition doth edify as other orders do but it is certaine that the apparell nowe vsed is so appointed Ergo it doth edify as other orders do You cauill at the maior and bring in the examples of Saule and Dauid to proue that a lawfull magistrate did commaund vnlawfull things but you omitte the other circumstances conteined in the maior and therefore you answer not to the purpose The minor you saye is in controuersie and I do fault in the petition of the principle Surely I do petere y ◠principium that no good subiect can denie For the Quéenes maiestie is a lawful magistrate the authoritie of Parliament is a lawful authoritie hir maiestie by that authoritie hathe appointed this apparell and that as it is protested for comelinesse and decencie without any superstition Ergo the minor is true If you will yet doubte of comelinesse and decencie then I still say vnto you that what is comely and decent is not euery mans part to iudge but the magistrates and suche as haue authoritie in the Church Chap. 7. the. 6. Diuision Ansvver to the Admonition Pag. 239. Sect. 2. Secondly bycause we are by due proofe and experience taughte that such as haue worne this apparell and do weare it by the ministerie of the word haue greatly edifyed and do dayly T. C. Page 58. Sect. 1. The second reason is that they that weare this apparell haue edifyed and do edify which is as if a man would say the midwiues which lyed vnto Pharao did much good amongst the Israelits Ergo their lying did much good If he will say the comparison is not like bycause the one is not sinne in his owne nature whereas the other is sinne then take this One that stammereth and stutteth in his tong edifyeth the people therefore stammering and stutting is good to edify For what if the Lord giue his blessing vnto his word and to other good gifts which he hath that preacheth and weareth a surplis c. Is it to be thought therefore that he liketh wel of the wearing of that apparell This is to assigne the cause of a thing to that which is not only not the cause thereof but some hindrance also and s aking of that whereof it is supposed to be a cause For a man may rather reason that for asmuch as they which preach with surplis c. edify notwithstanding that they therby (*) They that are driuen away or that cause do giue suspition of Anabaptisme driue away some and to othersome giue suspition of euill c. then if they preached withoute wearing any such thinges they should edify much more And yet if a man were assured to gaine a thousand by doing of that which may offend or cause to fall one brother he ought not to do it Io. Whitgifte Indéede if this apparell were of that nature that a lye is your similitude of the midwiues had some shew in it and yet must you of necessitie confesse that their lying to Pharao did much good per accidens for otherwise the men children of the Israelites and euen Moses himselfe had bin murthered and you are not ignorant that diuers writers in this respect excuse that doing of theirs You knowe likewise what the opinion of some is touching that kynd of lye that is called officiosum mendacium but for my part I am in that point of Sainte Augustines iudgement But your similitude is not lyke and if it were yet makes it agaynst you for theyr lying dyd good as I haue sayd e before Yo r other similitude of stammering stutting is ridiculous and argueth your great contempt of lawfull and decent orders The lawes of this Churche haue prescribed this apparell to the ministers of the worde as decent orderly and comely the same lawes haue inhibited those to preach that refuse to submit themselues vnto such orders Wherefore s eing they be appointed as fit garments for preachers and non may preach except he receiue them they do edify not by themselues as I haue before declared but per accidens as all other suche like things do For neyther the church nor the Pulpit nor the bells nor 〈◊〉 and such other do otherwise edify than per accidens Touching offence that is taken at the wearing of this apparell I haue shewed before that it is an offence taken and not giuen neyther is i to be considered whether men be offended or no but whether they haue any iust cause of offence Many be offended with our Churches and will neyther heare sermon nor receiue the sacraments in them we must not therefore pull downe our Churches or cease to preach and administer the Sacramentes in them You must remember the destinction of scandalum acceptum and scandalum datum an offence giuen and an offence taken Chap. 7. the seuenth Diuision Ansvver to the Admonition Fol. 239. Sect. 3. Thirdly bycause also by experience we dayly vnderstand that such as consent in wearing this apparell consent also in all other points of doctrine and kepe the peace of the church which
commaunde them Pag. 186. 10 He sayth that those which write the Centuries suspect the Cannon of the Councell of Laodicea which forbiddeth the electiō of ministers to be committed to the people and doubt whether it bea Bastarde or no whiche is vntrue for the Authours of the Centuryes make no such doubt Pag. 188. 11 He sayth that Hierome willeth that the people should haue power and authoritie to choose their clearks their ministers which is not so for Hierom willeth no such thing Pag. 203. 12 He alledgeth Musculus his wordes in stead of Ieromes and that which onely Muscu sayth in his cōmon places he ascribeth to Ierom in his epist. to Nepotian ead 13 He sayth that Nazian in an oration that he wryteth at the death of his father confuteth those reasons that seeme to hinder the election of Ministers by the Church and yet is there no such thing to be founde in that oration Pag. 205. 14 He referreth the Reader to the. 6. and. 7. booke of Eusebius for examples of elections of the people Clergie confirmed by the Christian magistrate namely in the Bishop of Constantinople and yet is there no such examples in those bookes neyther any mention of any Bishop of Constantinople Pag. 207. 15 He fathereth a manifest vntruth vpon Eusebius lib. 6. touching Origens admission into the ministerie Pag. 209. 16 He leaueth out the wordes of the Councell of Chalcedon that open the meaning of the Councell Pag. 222. 17 He againe ascribeth Musculus his wordes to Ierome Pag. ead 18 He denyeth that Chrysostome maketh a distinction betwixt Bishops and Elders when as his wordes be plaine Pag. 226. 19 He doth vntruely and corruptly alledge Theodorete Pag. 268. 20 He sayth Pag. 280. that the two treatises called the Admonition were written by diuerse persons the one not knowing the others doings the contrarie whereof is manifestly declared 21 He citeth Nicephorus corruptly Pag. 326. 22 He falsifyeth a place in the first of Iohn by a false interpretation to make it serue his turne Pag. 302. 23 He sayth that the Centuries alledge a place of Ambrose out of his booke de dignitate sacerdotali to proue that the office of an Archbishop was not then come into the Church Which is vntrue for the Centuries alledge no suche place out of Ambrose for any such purpose Pag. 337. 24 He sayth that Hierome and Augustine speake of Archdeacons in those places where they onely speake of Deacons Pag. 346. 25 The wordes of Socrates are falsified Pag. 350. 26 He vntruly reporteth the wordes of Cyprian Pag. 257. 27 He falsifieth the meaning of Tertullian alluding that to Ceremonies that Tertullian meaneth of matters of fayth and of saluation Pag. 370. 28 He kéepeth back the wordes of Theodoret that explane his meaning Pag. 412. 29 An vntruth concerning Iereneus auouched out of the fifth booke of Eusebius Cap. 3. 4. Pag. eadem 30 He peruerteth the wordes of the Gréeke scholiast Pag. 413. 31 He auoucheth an vntruth of Theodoret. Pag. 415. 32 He vttereth a verie vncharitable vntruth of the worthie man M. Iewel Bishop of Sarisburie Pag 422. 33 He sayth that in the Councell of Antioch it appeareth that the Bishop of the Metropolitane seate called Synodes and propounded the matters which were to be handled and that it was his office to see that the Bishops kept themselues within their owne Diocesse and he quoteth the. 9. Canon where no such thing is to be founde Pag. 435. 34 He both addeth and detracteth from the. 34. Canon attributed to the Apostles Page 439. 35 The. 17. Canon of the Councell of Antioche is vntruely alleadged Page 440. 36 He should saye an Epistle of Pope Zachary to Boniface and he sayth an Epistle of Zachary to Pope Boniface In the whiche Epistle he saythe that this cause scil Least they shoulde wax vile through the multitude is alleaged why there should not be a Bishop in euery village or little citie which is vntrue for there is no such cause alleaged there 443. 37 He alleadgeth the fift Canō Concilij Tyronnes for that that cannot be found in it Pag 446. 38 He saythe that another councell quoting the Councell of Afrike decreed that the Christians shoulde not celebrate feastes on the birth dayes of Martyrs because it was the manner of the heathen which is a manifest vntruth for there is no such decrée in that councell 479. 39 He sayth That Tertuliian would not haue the Christians to syt after they had prayed because the Idolaters did so and he quoteth his booke de anima where there is no such thing written Page ead 40 He fathereth an vntruth of Augustine touching Baptizing by women or in priuate houses Page 522. 41 He alleageth M. Beza in his annotations for that which cannot be founde in thē Pag. 584. 42 He saith that if we will take the nature of the sacrament so straightly as Augustine doth that there be no sacramentes but when as to the element there commeth the worde the circumcision can be no Sacramen which is a grosse vntruth for in circumcision there is both the word and the element Page 〈◊〉 43 He saith that the eldership was most flourishing in Constantines time but he noteth 〈◊〉 place where we may finde his saying to be true Page 651. 44 He is greatly deceiued about the excommunicating of Apollinaris and sheweth manifest tokens that either he hath not himselfe read the story or that he hath read it very negligently as it is plainely declared in the Defense Page 669. 45 He falsifieth Ambrose Page 670. 46 He alleageth a place of Tertullian very deceitfully Page 673. 47 He saith that Augustine in his bookes de Bap. contra Donatistas 〈◊〉 that if the most of the people be in ected with the fault which is to be punished that then no excommunication ought to be attempted for because 〈◊〉 sufficient number of voyces will not be obteined for the excōmunication whereas these wordes for because a sufficient number of voyces c. are not to be founde in these bookes of Augustine Page 675. 48 He maketh an vntrue report of the. 10. Canon of the Councell of Anti h. Page 682. 49 He alleageth that for making Ecclesiastical lawes and ceremonies which is ment of building and repayring of Churches out of Euseb. lib. 2. de vita Constant. Epist. ad Eusebium Page 698. 50 He affirmeth that this practise continued still in the Churches of God scil that nothing was broughte into the Church to be read besides the word of God whereas the contrarie is manifestly proued of the same time whereof he meaneth Page 718. 51 He saith that S. Iohn in the Apocalips reprehending the ministers of diuers Churches dyd not put to his name vnto his booke whiche is a manifest vntruth for he addeth his name both in the beginning and in the end thrise in the first chapter and once in the last I here omit his manifest wresting of the Scriptures his wrong collections bolde assertions contrarie
to the practise of the Church and truth and notorious vntruthes affirmed by him of the Answere to the Admonition with sundrie other grosse ouersights because I haue noted them in the margent and plainly detected them in my Defense to this Replier and are for the most part noted also in the Generall Table vnder these 3. titles Falsifications of the Replier T. C. charged with vntruth T. C. chargeth the Answere falsely Men may erre and be deceiued but either to speake nothing truly or often to fault in vntrue dealing cannot be a token of the spirite of truth the which spirite of truth God for his Christes sake graunt vnto all those that haue a heartie desire to know the truth FINIS A TABLE OF THE PRINCIPALL titles and matters handeled at large in this Booke AN answere to the Epistle Dedicated by T. C. too the Church of Englād c. pag. 1 An Epistle of the Author too the Church of England 17 An exhortation to the Ciuil ecclesiasticall Magistrates 31 An aunswere to the Preface of the Admonition 57 Tractatus 1. VVhether Christ forbiddeth rule and superioritie vnto mi nisters 61 The true interpretation of the 20 of Mathew c. Reges gentium c. Cap. 1. 61 The exposition of the place Math. 23. Cap. 2. 71 Tract 2. Of the authoritie of the church in things indifferent 76 Som things may be tollerated in the Church touching order ceremonies discipline kind of gouern ment not expressed in the woord of God Chap. 1. 76 The opinion of the auncient fathers and councelles of thinges indifferent Chap. 2 95 The opinion of Saint Augustine of things indifferent Chap. 3 99 The opinion of M. Caluine of things indifferent Chap. 4. 109 The opinion of Bucer of things indifferent Chap. 5 113 The expositiō of the places of Deut. 4. 12. quoted by the Admonition Chap. 6. 116 The opinion of other late writers of thinges indifferent Chap. 7. 126 Tract 3. Of the election of Ministers 132 Of the triall of Ministers both in lear ning and conuersation Chap. 1. pag. 132 VVhether Idolatrous sacrificers and Massemongers maye afterwardes be Ministers of the Gospell Chap. 2. 143 Of Ministers learning Catechismes Chap ▪ 3. 152 Of the election of Ministers by the voices and consent of the people Chap. 4. 154 An examinatiō of the reasons which T. C. vseth to proue the perpetuall equitie c. of elections by the people Chap. 5. 170 The diuersitie betwixt the Apostles times oures requireth a diuers kind of gouernement and of ordering of Ministers Chap. 6. 174 That Bishops haue authoritie to admit and ordeine Ministers Chap. 7. 194 It is not necessary that the people should haue interest in the election of Ministers but the contrary is conuenient Chap. 8. 211 Tract 4. Of Ministers hauing no pastorall charge of ceremonies vsed in ordering Ministers of Apostles Euangelistes and Prophets 216 Of Ministers admitted a place being not voyd Chap. 1 216 Of ceremonies vsed in ordeining Mi nisters Chap. 2. 225 Of Apostles Euangelists and Prophets Chap. 3. 228 Tract 5. Of Residence of the pastor Chap. 1. 235 Of pluralities or hauing moe benefices than one Chap. 2. 246 Tract 6. Of Ministers that cānot preach and of licences to preach 251 Some may be Ministers that cannot preach Chap. 1. 251 Of licences to preach Chap. 2 254 Tract 7. Of apparell of Ministers 256 The causes vvhy they refuse the Apparell examined Chap. 1. 256 That Ministers vvere knovvne in times past by distinct apparell Chap. 2. 261 That the Magistrate may appoynt a distinct apparell for Ministers Chap. 3. 264 The distinction of apparell vvas appointed before the Popes tiranny Chap. 4. 268 That the apparel now vsed is not Po pishe or Antichristian And that things inuented by euil men may be vsed of Christians Chap. 5. 271 Diuers thinges concerning apparell in other places of the Aunsvvere chap. 6. 282 The faultes vvherevvith the Admonitors charge the apparell aunswered Chap. 7 283 Tract 8. Of Archbishops Metropolitās Bishops Archdeacons c. pag. 297 The reasons of T. C. ansvvered wher by he goeth about to take awaye the superfluous loppe as hee termeth it of the offices chap. 1. 297 That the names of Metropolitane Archbishop c. be not Antichristian chap. 2. 318 The offices of Archbishops c. are not straung or vnheard of in Chri stes church and of superioritie among the Clergie chap. 3. 353 The defense of the ansvvere of maister Iewell concerninge Archbishops c. against the vnreuerend Reply of T. C. chap. 4 422 The causes of Archbishops and of their prerogatiue and the estate of the old Bishops assigned by T. C. examined Chap. 5. 435 Other things concerning the offices and authoritie of our clergie of inequalitie of degrees amongst ministers c. dispersed in other places of the Answer chap. 6. 453 A briefe collection of such authorities as are vsed in this defense of the authoritie of Archbishops Bishops Chap 7. 470 A briefe comparison of the Bishops of our time and the Bishoppes of the primitiue Church Chap. 8. pag. 47 Tract 9. Of the communiō booke 474. The generall faultes examined wher vvith the publike seruice is charged by T. C. Chap. 1. 474 An examination of the particular faultes either in matter or forme whervvith the Booke of commō praier is charged Chap. 2. 487 Of Baptisme by women vvherwith the communion Booke is falsly charged Chap. 3. 503 Of ministring the sacraments in priuate places Chap. 4. 511 The sacraments ministred by other than Ministers Chap. 5. 515 Of priuate communion wherwith the Admonition chargeth the Booke of common prayer Chap. 6. 525. Of Churching of women 534 Tract 10. Of holydayes 538 Of holidayes in generall and that they maye bee appointed by the Church and of the vse of them Chap. 1. 538 Of Saints dayes Chap. 2. 543 Tract 11. VVhat kind of preachinge is most effectuall 555 Tract 12. Of preaching before the administration of the Sacraments 562. Tract 13. Of reading of the Scriptures 568. A comparison betvveene reading of Scriptures and preaching Chap. 1. page 568 That reading is preaching chap. 2. pag. 574 The profite of reading Scriptures in the Church chap. 3. 578 Tract 14. Of ministring and preachinge by Deacons 582 Tract 15. Of matters touching the communion 588 Of orders and ceremonies vsed in the celebration of the Communion chap. 1. 588 Of shutting men from the communion and compelling to communicate chap. 2. 603 Of playn and simple ministring and receyuing of the communion Chap. 3. 605 Tract 16. Of matters touching baptisme pag. 607 Of interrogatories ministred to infantes Chap. 1. 607 Of Godfathers and their promise Chap. 2 612 Of fontes and crossing in baptisme Chap. 3. pag. 614 Of the parties that are to bee baptised Chap. 4 619 Tract 17. Of the Seigniorie or gouernement by Seniors 626 VVhether there were such as the Ad monition calleth Seniors in euery Congregation chap. 1. 626 VVhether the gouernement by
no such weight then can you not excuse eyther your selfe or them In déed the Papists haue no iust matter of reioycing for they disagrée both in me also in far greater matters thā these be euen in y e chiefest points of their religion but this is no sufficient excuse for vs we may not disagrée in truth bicause they disagrée in error Neither ought the weak to be offended bicause such cōtentions haue bin vsual in the Church as I haue also shewed in myne Epistle dedicatorie to the Churche of England But yet wo be vnto those by whome suche offences come T. C. And it is to be remembred that these controuersies for the most part are not betwene many For sundry of those things which are cōprehended in the answer to the Admonition haue as I am persuaded few fauorers of those especially which are of any stayed or soūder iudgement in y e scriptures and haue sene or red of the gouernment and order of other Churches so that in deed the father of that answere excepted we haue this controuersie oftentimes rather with the Papistes than with those whiche professe the Gospell as we doe Io. Whitgifte Certainly I do not willingly defend any thing against the word of God or of mine own priuate persuasion but I haue either sufficient warrant of the worde of God or some godly lerned zelous authors iudgement for the same If I haue done otherwise I trust I shal heare of it in this booke but I am fully persuaded that all men of stayed and sound iudgement ioyne with me in these matters such especially as haue had the beste experience of the order and gouernment of other reformed Churches for proofe whereof I referre you to the wisest godlyest and best learned among the clergie in this lande T. C. And where as last of all it is sayde that this precedeth of enuie of singularitie and of popularitie although these be no sufficient reasons agaynst the truth of the cause whiche is neither enuious singular nor popular and although they be such as might be seuerally by greate likelyhodes probabilities refuted yet bicause the knowledge of these things pertaineth only to God which is the searcher of the heart raynes and for auoyding of to much tediousnesse we will reste in his iudgement tary for the day wherin the secretes of hearts shal be made manifest And yet all men doe see how vniustly we be accused of singularitie * Notable vntruths as wil fal out in triall which propound nothing that the Scriptures doe not teache the writers both olde and newe for the moste parte affirme the examples of the Primitiue Churches and of those which are at these dayes confirme Io. Whitgifte Whether if procéede of enuie or no lette the manner bothe of their and your writings declare Popularitie you can not auoyde séeing you séeke so greate an equalitie committe so many thyngs to the voyces of the people and in sundrye places so greately magnifye and extoll them than the whyche thrée what can bée more popular Singularitie and the properties therof It is Singularitie to deuyde youre selfe from that Churche whyche bothe professe the woorde of God truely and is not to bée touched in any poynte of doctrine necessarie to saluation It is true that a godly learned writer sayth Charitie Musc. in 〈◊〉 Mat. knittes together and reconcileth singularitie cutteth in peeces and diuideth it is the beginning and roote of all heresie to hate contemne the cōmunion of the church And a little after There be some contentious persons whom no church can please always hauing some thing to blame in other but nothing in themselues which is a manifest signe of singularitie But bicause the mindes and affections of men are certainly knowne only to God the determinate iudgement hereof I also referre vnto him As for this bolde assertion that you propeund nothing that the scriptures doe not teach c. howe true it is must hereafter by examination appeare The Epist. of T. C. Sect. 13. All these accusations as wel against the cause as the fauourers therof albeit they be many and diuers yet are they no other thā which haue bin long sithens in the Prophets apostles our sauior Christs now of late in our times obiected against the truth the professors therof And therefore as y e sunne of the truth then appered brake through al those clouds which rose against it to stop the light of it so no doubt this cause being of the same nature will haue the same effect And as all those sclanders could not bring the truth in disgrace with those y t loued it so the children of y e truth through these vntrue reports wil neither leaue the loue of this cause which they haue alredy cōceiued nor yet ceasse to enquire diligently to iudge indifferētly of those surmises which are put vp aagaynst it Io. Whitgifte These be but words of course which men of any sect though not truly wil apply vnto thēselues if they be otherwise delt with than they can wel beare The truth certainly can not be kept vnder by any meanes and yet sometime error ouershadoweth the truth euen as the cloudes do the Sunn My hope also is that men will not be caried away with slaunderous reportes ▪ for if they shoulde then musre you néedes preuayle but with sounde reasons and the truth of the cause The Epistle of T. C. Sect. 14. Moreouer seing that we haue once ouercōmed al these lets climed ouer them when they wer cast in our way to hinder vs from cōming frō the grosse darknesse of Poperie vnto y e glorious light of the Gospel there is no cause why now they shuld stay our course to further perfection cōsidering that neither the stile is higher now thā it was before being the very selfe same obiections in all this time we ought so to haue grown in knowledge of the truth that in stead of being then able to leape ouer a hedge we should now haue our feete so prepared by the Gospell that they shoulde be as the feete of a hynde able to surmount euen a wall if neede were Io. Whitgifte There is but one truth that is certain whē we haue obteined if we must therin remain constant without altering whosoeuer shal ouerleap or ouerrun this wall must of necessitie procure vnto himself great danger and therfore according to the olde prouerbe Looke before thou leape We must grow in faith knowledge always be growing going forward but it doth not therfore follow y t we must dayly inuent new opinions or broach new dectrines alter in iudgement we must grow in strength of faith we must increace in practise and loue of vertue we must studie to encrease our knowledge that we may be the more confirmed in the truthe that we haue learned out of the worde of God This is an euill collection we must grow in the knowledge of
sayth Vi enim eligendi pontificis potestatem ad se tunc rapiebant Romani For the Romaines then tooke by force vnto them selues power to choose their Bishop The second place of Platina argueth the vndiscretenesse of the people both in placing and displacing their Bishop and the authoritie of the Emperour in taking this authoritie of placing and displacing from them when they doe abuse it for here hée put out Benet whom they had chosen placed Leo whom they had displaced wherby it appeareth that there was not then any one suche prescripte forme of electing the Bishop of Rome but that it was in the authoritie of the Emperour to abrogate alter or chaunge it All this is nothing to the improuing of my assertion for I denie not but that the people had interest in elections of Bishops in diuers places and especially in the Church of Rome a long tyme But this dothe not proue that there is any prescript rule in Scripture for the election of ministers whiche maye not be altered and chaunged from tyme to tyme as shall be moste conuenient for the presente state of the Churche naye whatsoeuer ye haue hitherto sayde proueth the contrarie Platina doth not write that Otho coufessed that the election of the Byshop of 〈◊〉 did not perteyne vnto him you should haue a care to report the words of the author truly it is one thing to say that the election of the Byshop perteyneth to the Cleargie and people another thing to say that it perteyned not to him for it might perteine to them al. And the same Platina in the life of Io. 13. saithe that after Iohn was condemned by a councell and therefore fled away the Emperoure Otho at the request of the Cleargie did create Leo Byshop of Rome his words are these Hanc ob causam Otho persuadente Platina in 〈◊〉 ta Ioan ▪ 13 clero Leonem Romanum ciuem Lateranensis ecclesiae Scriniarium Pontificem creat For thys cause Otho by the perswasion of the Cleargie chooseth Leo a Citizen of Rome and keper of the monuments of the Church of Laterane to be Byshop He further in that place declareth how the people after the Emperours departure deposed Leo and placed Benet and how the Emperoure by force compelled them to place Leo agayne That Otho the Emperoure did take this graunt at the Byshops hands that the election of the Byshop should be in him and not in the people M. Bale testifyeth in manifest words in the life of Leo. 8. where he saith thus After he tooke from the Cleargie and people of Rome the power of choosing their Byshop whiche Carolus Magnus had gyuen Bale in vita Leon. 8. vnto them before and by a Synodall decree did commit the same to Otho the Emperoure for the auoyding of seditions whiche were wont to be in these elections and Otho receyuing this graunt thankfully that he mighte shewe himselfe agayne beneficiall towards the Sea of Rome restored all things which Constantine is feyned to haue giuen c. In the which words also it is to be noted y t this libertie of choosing their Byshop was granted vnto the people and Cleargie of Rome by Carolus Magnus the which not only M. Bale testifyeth in this place but M. Barnes also in these words Leo the. 8. vnderstanding the wickednesse of the Romaines in obtruding their friends to the Church by bribes threatnings and other wicked deuises did restore the interest of choosing the Byshop to Otho the Emperoure Whereof I also conclude that it is in the power of the ciuill magistrate to take order for elections of ministers and that the consent of the people is not of any necessitie required therevnto Chap. 6. the. 9. Diuision T. C. Page 36. Sect. 6. And if the Emperours permitted the election of the Byshop to that Citie where it made most for their suretie to haue one of their owne appoyntment as was Rome whiche with their Byshops did oftentimes put the good Emperoures to trouble it is to be thought that in other places both cities and townes they did not denie the elections of ministers to the people besides that certaine of those constitutions are not of Rome but of any citie whatsoeuer And these Emperours were and liued betwene 500. and odde yeares vntill the very poynte of a thousande yeares after Christ so that hitherto this libertie was not gone out of y e Church albeit the Pop which brought in all tyrannie and went about to take all libertie from the Churches was now on horse back and had placed himselfe in that Antichristian seate Io. Whitgifte In that the Emperours did but permitte such elections to the people it is manifest that the interest was in them else why should they be said to haue permitted it In déed true it is that the Emperours so long did remitte of their interest in suche elections that afterwards when they would haue claymed their right therein they coulde not obteyne it but by violence were shut from all as the histories manifestly deelare Hitherto you haue proued nothing in question neyther haue you reasoned ad I de m T. C. hath not reason ad idem for you shoulde either haue proued that the election of ministers dothe of necessitie perteyne to the people or that the same manner of electing is conueniente for thys Church of England in this time and state both which I haue improued and do still vtterly denie neyther dothe any thing that you haue alleadged proue eyther of them Chap. 6. the. 10. Diuision Ansvvere to the Admonition Page 45. Sect. 3. Therefore this diuersitie of the state of the Church requireth a diue s kinde of gouernmente and another kinde of ordeyning ministers For this cause in Concilio Laodicensi whiche was Anno. 334. it was Concil Laodic decreed that the election of ministers shoulde not be permitted to the people T. C. Page 37. Sect. 1. 2. Those that write the Centuries (a) This is vntrue as shall appeare suspect this canon and doubt whether it be a bastard or no considering the practise of the Church But heere or euer you were aware you haue striken at your selfe For before you sayd that this order of choosing the minister by voyces of the Church was (b) An vntruth for I said not so but in the Apostles time and during the time of persecution And the firste time you can alleadge this libertie to be taken away was in the. 334. yeare of our Lord which was at the least 31. yeares after that Constantine the great began to reygne I say at the least bycause there be good authors that say that this councell of Laodicea was holdē Anno. 338. after the death of Ioninian the Emperoure and so there is 35. yeares betweene the beginning of Constantines reygne and this councell Now I thinke you will not say that the Church was vnder (c) The Churche was vnder persecution in Constantines time by the space of 13. yeares for
other generally to all ministers Oflicences to preache Chap. 3. Admonition And if any be o well disposed to preache in their owne charges they may not withoute my Lordes licence Ansvvere to the Admonition Pag. 53. Sect. 1. 2. 3. YOu here finde fault that if a preacher be disposed to preache in Not to preac without li ▪ cence his cure he may not do it without my Lordes licence Where the word of God is professed Christian magistrates gouern there it is mete that no man should take vpon him any function except he be by the Magistrate to whom it doth appertein thervnto admitted And forasmuch as there be always in the church hypocrites heretikes schismatikes other euil disposed persons whiche study for nothing more than to disquiet the state of the church to occupie the people with their factions it is necessarie that none should be admitted to preache in any place without he be thervnto licenced by the Bishop who ought to haue a diligent care in that matter I suppose you are not of that mynd that men maye nowe in this Church vnder Christian magistrates preach without licence it hath always bin the opinion of wise learned godlie men that since the Apostles tyme none wer ordinarily called to the office of preaching but such as were called of God by man only Anabaptists and some other secte of heretikes teache the contrarie T. C. Pag. 51. Sect. 8. 9. Pag. 52. Sect. 2. What dealing is this to bring mē in suspition of y t which they neuer thought of as though there were any word y t founded to this y e a man should put himself into the office of preaching without the approbation of those (*) A doubtful saying men to whom it doth perteyne Their complaint is that those which are ordeyned Pastors and therfore to preach can not do it without further licence as if a man shoulde be charged to doe a thing forthwith and then he that chargeth him bindeth him hand foote that he can not do it vnlesse he will lose him The bishops inhable him to teach point him a place to teach in yet they wil not let him teath ▪ vnlesse he haue a further licence It h be an heretik or schismatike or suspected of any such thing ▪ why is he admitted or being admitted why is he suffred to be so much as a reader n y ◠churche nd bicause you could not answer this therfore you set vp a fansie of yours to confute And thus you fight without an 〈◊〉 and you make triumphes where there is no victorie They wil say vnto you y t not only vnder a godly magistrate but not in y e time of persecution any man ought to ake vpon him any function in y e church ▪ vnlesse he be ther vnto called by mē except he haue a wonderful calling which is rare must be iligently examined by them which haue it 〈◊〉 nder pretence of the spirite of God whom they make author of their calling it fall out y e 〈◊〉 be but their own he long affection that hath thrust thē in so far they are from the frensy of Anaba tists which you by a confutation of y e which they neuer affirmed would seeme to staine them with Io. Whitgifte This Repl e cōsisteth partly of equiuocations partly of 〈◊〉 suppositiōs For where you say y e no mā shuld put himself into the office of preaching w tout the approbation of those men to whō it doth apertein you speak ambiguously therfore you must explicate what you mean by those to whō it doth apertein whether y e people seniors as you cal them or y e bishops or y e ciuil Magistrate or such to whō y e ciuil Magistrat doth cōmit y e iudging of such matters For y e Auabaptistes confesse y e they must be called of their churches but they deny y e authoritie of the ciuil magistrat herein the authoritie of such also as he doth 〈◊〉 for y t end purpose Again you here suppose y t no man may preach out of his owne cure therfore being once admitted o preach there he nedeth no further licence ▪ Likewise you 〈◊〉 suppose that none may be admitted to preache except he haue 〈◊〉 to be hort that 〈◊〉 ▪ heretikes schismatikes may be known foorthwith 〈◊〉 being suspected by and by remoued out of the ministerie ▪ all which suppositio s bēe vntiue and therfore this Replis full of greate absuraities Their meaning is playne that though there be iuste cause why the Bishoppe should inhibite them from preachyng bothe for theyr contentions and also for their errours yet woulde they preache whether the Byshoppe wyll or no for the case is theyr owne They were admytted to preache in theyr cures and elsewhere so long as they vsed them selues modestlye quietly and taught sounde doctrine but after they began to deuide the Churche and make contention in it they were restrayned from preachyng vntill suche tyme as vpon their submission and reformation they shoulde be there vnto admitted agayne hinc illae lachrymae this is the matter and hereto you answere ne gry quidem Of the apparell of Ministers Tract 7. The causes why they refuse the apparell examined Chap. 1. the fyrst Diuision T. C. Page 52. Sect. 3. The cappe the surplis and tippet are not the greatest matters we striue for whych notwithstandyng hath bene enformed to the Churches beyonde sea to the ende that the iudgementes of some myghte be the easlyer had agaynst vs. Howbeit we thinke it an attyre vnmeete for a minister of the Gospell to weare and the Surplis especially more than the other two bycause suche hurtefull Ceremonies are so muche more daungerous as they doe approche nearer the seruice ▪ or worship of God Io. Whitgifte Yet in the beginning suche was youre pretence neyther was there any thing else that you contended for as it is well knowne to all men that had to deale with you or hearde of you I am certainly perswaded that if the Churches beyonde sea did fully vnderstande your procéeding together with the state of thys Churche of Englande that they woulde as bitterly write againste you and as willingly condemne you as euer they dyd the Anabaptistes But to your reasons agaynste the apparell Chap. 1. the second Diuision T. C. Pag. 52. Sect. 4. The causes why wee are lothe to meddle with them are not as many are borne in hande * This assertion is contrary to your practise Monumentes of idolatrie may be vsed if they haue any profite bycause that we thinke any pollution so to sticke to the things themselues as that the wearyng of them had any suche power to pollute and make vncleane the vsers of them Neyther yet only bicause the Papistes haue superstitiously vsed them but bycause they hauing bene abhominably avnsed by them haue no vse nor profyte in those thinges or endes wherein and wherevnto they are nowe vsed And further that
by the Admonition to proue that ministers were knowen by voice learning and doctrine and you transferre them to apparell that eyther Samuel nor the Apostles nor our Sauioure Christ did weare any distinct apparell from others which liued in their times For if Samuell being then the seer had had a seuerall apparell whiche was proper to the seers it is not like that Saule woulde haue asked of himselfe where his house was And if the Apostles had worne a seuerall apparell from the 〈◊〉 they should not haue bin esteemed by so generall and vncertaine a note as of speaking somewhat brodely or as I may terme it Northēly for it had bin a surer note to haue said thou art one of his Apostles bycanse none weareth this apparel but his Apostles where there was a great number that spake Galilean like which were not of his Apostles nor disciples neyther But let these goe You say our sauioure Christ had a seuerall apparell bycause he had a cote without seame Assuredly you might vse lesse scornefulnesse in rehearsing of other mens arguments if for no other cause yet for this that they might take more pitie of yours For what an argument is this our fauioure Christ did weare an vnder garment which could not be well parted but with the spoyle or marring of it therefore he ware a seuerall apparell from the rest It is true Iohn Baptist had a seuerall apparell and to help you so had Elias but to this end that both by his vnwonted apparell and straunge diet which he vsed oflocusts and wild honey the extraordinaries of his ministerie might be set foorth and the people the rather moued to enquire of his office whome they sawe to varrie so much from the common customs of other men But ministers now haue no such extraordinarie functions therefore by that reason of yours they shoulde not be seuered from other men by any note of apparell You say you know that the cheefe notes of a minister are doctrine and learning if you meane that the distinction of apparell must supply the rest and that that also hath some force to commend their ministerie the Prophets and Apostles of our sautoure Christ left vs no (a) A table reason perfect patterne of a minister nor no sufficient glasse to dresse him by whereof (b) Vntrue as shall appeare the most part neuer vsed any such seuerall 〈◊〉 and none of them haue leit any commaundement of it Io. Whitgifte They be coniectures indéede and méere coniectures but without all shadowe of probabilitie The vnapt reasons of the Admonitors dissembled by T. C. or reason and if you will giue me leaue so to coniectnre I will proue any thing But such slender coniectures argueth the slendernesse of your proofes The Admonition vseth thōse places to proue that ministers were then knowen by voice learning and doctrine which how they or you can conclude of them I confesse that I cannot imagine excepte you will say that Samuell said vnto Saule I am the seer and they that stoode by said vnto Peter-euen thy speach bewrayeth thee therefore ministers were knowen by voice learning and doctrine which is asmuche as though you woulde saye Saule knew Samuell by Samuels owne report and a welchman is knowen by his tong rgo ministers are knowen by voyce ▪ learning and doctrine is not this a proper kind of reasoning is this the reuerence due to the scriptures thus 〈◊〉 to abuse them But say you if Samuell had had a seuerall apparell proper to the Seers it was not like that Saule would haue asked of him where his house was Nay you shoulde rather haue sayde that it is like that Saule being a rud y and brought vp only in keeping of cattell had neuer séene prophet before and therefore could not know Samuell what kind of apparell soeuer he had worne And that this is true that Saule did not know what a Séer meant and that he did neuer sée any before it may appeare in the same chapter And therefore saith M. Mart vpon that 18. verse of the. 9. Chapter Saule is so rude in P. Martyr the common wealth and such a straunger from ciuill affaires that he did not so muche as know Samuell although he were both iudge of the people and the magistrate and Prophet and the captaine of the host Moreouer M. Caluine vpon the. 23. of Math. proueth out of the. 13. Chapter of Zach. Prophets knowne by a distinct apparell Caluine Zach. 13. that the prophets were distinguished and knowne from other men by a certaine and peculiar forme of s. And the very wordes of the 〈◊〉 fourth verse of that Chapter of Zacharie doth euidently proue it for there the Lord aith In that day shall the Prophets be ashamed c. neyther shall they weare a rough garment to 〈◊〉 ▪ Upon the which words the note in the bible printed at Geneua is this They shall no more weare Prophets apparell to make their doctrine seeme more holy ▪ to the which also agreth M. 〈◊〉 vpon the same place and addeth these words This is the summe that thys kind of vesture was not reproued in the 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 as some men 〈◊〉 do wrest this place to condemne long gownes and what soeuer doth not please their waywardnesse c. Whereby it is euident that the Prophets did weare and were knowen by a peculiar kind of garment If you enquire of the practise we haue diuers examples yea euen of Samuell whome we now haue in hand For one thing that 〈◊〉 Saul that he whome the wytch had raysed was Samuell was the de ption of his apparell 1. Sam. 28. There commeth vp an old man with a mantell vpon him ▪ And Saule perceyued 1. Sam. 28. that it was Samuel c. It cannot be thought that Saule conceyned this opinion bycause she named an olde man but bycause she added his mantell and kind of attireWe reade likewise of Elyas 2. Reg. 1. 2. that he had a heary or rough mantell agreing to the description in the Prophet Zacharie and a leather girdell wherby he was knowne of Ahazia And this is by you confessed Elizeus succéedeth Elias both in office and vesture And Iohn Baptist did not only represent Elias his spirit but also his kind of garmente for his rough garment of camels heare and leather girdle are described by Saint Mathew cap. 3. I suppose now that the manifest scripture the opinion of learned interpreters and the practise of so many notable Prophets do sufficiently iustify my assertion and are able to improue your probable coniectures as you tearme them Touching Peter what kinde of apparell soeuer he did weare the matter is not great it is the fond reason of theirs that I reproue which is tootoo childish as I haue shewed before and yet may it be supposed that Peter vsed all the meanes he coulde not to be knowen and therefore whether he cast off his vppermost garment or changed it it may be a question
Furthermore it was in the night time finally he was suspected by a maid to be one of Christs disciples before he had spoken one worde as it appeareth Io. 18. But to let al this passe what kind of reasoning call you this Peter was knowne by his voice Ergo he was not knowne by his apparell or this Peter was knowne by his tong to be a Galilcan Ergo ministers must be knowne by voice learning and doctrine Here you let slippe without any defense at all that which is alledged by the Admonition The Admo nition wanteth a procto out of the. 48. verse of the. 6. Chapter of Mathewe to the same purpose No man can deny but Christes apparel differed from the rest and that this was a rare kind of habit else would not the Euangelist Saint Iohn cap. 19. haue made so particular mention of it wherefore that whiche I say is true that euen then ministers of the Gospell might be knowne by their apparell as Christ and Iohn the Baptist and therefore not to be so straunge a matter that ministers should also now differ from other men in their apparell That which you speake of Iohn Baptist confirmeth my saying which is that ministers of the Gospell were then also knowne by their apparell and if vnwonted apparell did set foorth Iohn his ministerie and moued them the rather to enquire of his office why may it not haue the same vse now in like manner But I haue vsed those examples only to shew the vanitie of the Admonition which would make the Reader beléeue that in those dayes there was no distinction vsed in apparell Christ and his Apostles haue left a perfect patterne of a minister touching conditions qualities Lose conclusiōs of T. C. office so hath y e scripture done of a magistrate and of a subiect also of a master and of a seruant c. but shall there be therefore no distinction in apparell betwixte them or no externall notes to discerne them by what kind of argument cal you this Christ and his Apostles haue left vs a perfect patterne of the ministers office Ergo the magistrate may not take any order for his apparell Truly these be loose conclusions and as you vse to tearme them very pitifull arguments Of the same force be these arguments most of the Apostles and Prophets vsed no such seuerall apparell Ergo we may not vse any seuerall apparell And againe none of them haue left any commaundement of it Ergo it ought not to be The first reason hath thus many faults first the Antecedent is vntrue as I haue shewed before out of this Prophet Zacharie and M. Caluine c. For the Prophets were discerned from others by a certaine kind of apparell and it is not able to be proued but that the Apostles had seuerall apparell from the common sorte of men Secondly The Antec dent of T. C inferreth a consequent against himselfe it is no good argument à facto ad ius but it is much worse à non facto ad non ius the which kind of argument Zuinglius diuers times reproueth in his treatises against the Anabaptists as I haue oftentimes said Thirdly if some of the Apostles and some of the Prophets did vse seuerall apparell as the Antecedent cōfesseth they did though it doth not follow that we must do so yet it euidently proueth that we may do so being no commaundement in the scripture to the contrary Theargumē of T. C. ouerthrowne by his owne assernon Youre seconde argumente is ouerthrowne by youre owne selfe For Pag. 13. you saye that many thynges are bothe commaunded and forbidden of whyche there is no expresse mention in the word which are as necessary to be followed and auoyded as those whereof Pa. 13. Sect. 1 expresse mention is made which if it be true as it is most vntrue then thinges of lesse importance and not so necessary though they be not expressedly commaunded yet may they be done M. Caluine in his booke against the Anabaptists for your arguments and theirs do maruellously agrée and be builded vpon the selfesame foundation sayth thus To dissolue that which God neuer dissolued is in a mortall man a token of to muche rashnesse and arrogancie But let vs always hold this that then the authoritie of God is vsurped Caluin aduer Anabap. when that is condemned which he hath permitted But the scripture mentioneth in no place that the vse of armoure is forbidden vnto princes c. You may herby then perceiue that M. Caluine doth not thinke this to be a sound argument it is not commaunded Ergo it is vnlawfull except it can be shewed to be prohibited wherefore if you will condemne a seuerall kind of apparell in ministers you must shewe some commaundement or prohibition in the word of God for the same else are you rashe and arrogant vsurping to your selfe gods authoritie as M. Caluine saith Chap. 2. the second Diuision Ansvvere to the Admonition Page 55. Sect. 1. Eusebius saith that S. John the Apostle ware on his head a leafe or thinne plate like vnto a Bishops miter T. C. Pag. 53. Sect. vlt. For want of store and to make a long booke heere is S. Iohns miter rehearsed thr se in one leafe to the same purpose and in the saine words And bycause it was not enough that M. Bullinger and M. Martyr should speake of them you haue preuented them both least you should haue But not once digested or answered seemed to haue brought nothing If this be not coleworts*twise sodden I cannot tell what is Io. Whitgifte It is so often rehearsed as you report but by diuers authors to shew their opinions of one and the selfesame thing M. Gualter and M. Martyr among other examples vse this of S. Iohn to proue that in the auncient Church there was a peculiar fashion of apparell for Priests I recite their words as witnesses in this case worthy of credite and by that occasion this example of Iohn is the oftner repeated but thys is a sore matter to moue such choler you should quietly haue answered the reason and left your heate of speach but you haue done the contrary That the Magistrate may appoint a distinct apparell for Ministers Chap. 3. the. I. Diuision Ansvvere to the Admonition Pag. 55. Sect. 1. But what if none of the Prophets what if none of the Apostles which you are not able to proue eyther of the prophets or Apostles were knowne by their apparell May not therefore Christian magistrates in Christian common weales for order and decencie appoynte a seuerall kinde of apparell as well to ministers as to other states of men T. C. Page 54. Sect. 1. You aske whether the christian Magistrate may enioyne a seuerall kinde of apparell to the Ministers Eyther the cause is to weake whiche you defende or else it hathe gotten an euill patrone whiche would so gladly shifte it and chaunge it with another For this is an other question
whiche you speake of For although that be graunted vnto you whiche you demaunde yet you can not conclude your cause For albeit the Magistrate may commaunde a seuerall apparell yet it followeth not that he may commaunde this kinde of Popishe apparell and therfore what manner of argument is this of yours the Magistrate maye commaunde a seuetall apparell therefore he maye commaunde this The Colledge walles will tell you (*) You mighte haue learned other Logike within the Colledge walles that a man can not conclude from the whole to the parte affirmatiuely So you see I mighte let you fishe and catche nothing but I am neyther afrayde nor ashamed to tell you the truthe of that you aske so farre foorthe at leaft as I am perswaded (a) That is as much to say as if you like it you may vse it I thinke therefore it maye be suche a kinde of apparell as the Magistrate commaunding it the Minister may refuse it and suche it may be as he may not refuse it But whatsoeuer apparell it be this commaundement can not be without some iniurie done to the Minister For seeing that the Magistrate (b) You may say the like of Iudges doth allow of him as of a wise learned and discrete man and trusteth him with the gouernment of his people in matters betweene God them it were somewhat hard not to trust him with the appoynting of his owne apparel and he is probably to be supposed that he hathe discretion to weare his owne geare comely and in order that is able to teache others howe they shoulde weare theirs and that he shoulde be able to doe that by his wisedome and learning that others doe without learning and great store of wysedome and that he should keepe order and decencie in apparell which hath learned in the schole of Christe whiche they doe that had neuer other scholemaster than common sense and reason And if any minister be founde to faulte in going eyther dissolutely or to exquisitely and delicately then the Magistrate may (c) Why may be not aswell appoynt him an order as punishe his disorder punishe him according to the disorder wherin he saulteth Io. Whitgifte If you had noted my order and delte sincerely these wordes of yours might with lesse discredite vnto you haue bin well forborne For in this place I onely proue that the ministers may be distinguished from other by a seuerall kinde of apparell And I aske the question whether a christian Magistrate may appoynt a seueral kind of apparell for order and decencie Of this apparell whiche the Admonition calleth Antichristian I speake a little after Your so vsuall kinde of reasoning not ad idem argueth but lacke of abilitie to answere the present purpose The question is incident to my cause for if the Christian Magistrate haue authoritie to appoynt a seuerall kinde of apparell to Ministers then it is also lawfull for Ministers to vse it You saye the Colledge walles will tell me that a man cannot conclude from the whole to the An argument holdeth from the whole to the part affirmatiuely somtune parte affirmatiuely Althoughe my argument is neyther à genere nor à toto but ab oppositis relatiuis ▪ for it is this in effecte the Magistrate may commaunde it Ergo the subiects must obey it yet not the Colledge walles which be dumbe and can not speake but the rules of Logike telleth me that if by the whole you meane that whiche the Logitians doe call Genus then an argument from the whole to the parte doth firmely holde affirmatiuely if the whole be taken vniuersaliter vniuersally as in this example omne animal est sensibile Ergo omnis bomo est sensibilis Omnis virtus est mediocritas Ergo temperantia est mediocritas and so likewyse the Magistrate hath authoritie to appoynt any kinde of habite for order or decencie Ergo he maye appoynt this or that kinde of habite If you meane by the whole that whiche the Logitians doe properly call to tum integrale as you séeme to doe then the rules of Logike tell you that ab omn oto ad partes excepte it be à toto in modo the argument is good affirmatiuely and not otherwise I am not disposed to boaste of my knowledge in Logike nor to winne any opinion thereof to my selfe by defacing or contemning of other But I thanke God I haue sufficient to maynteyne whatsoeuer I haue written and to answere what you can replie to the contrarie But who would haue thought that this spirite had bin in T C. a man supposed to be so mortified c. The Magistrates authoritie in appoin ting apparellabridged by T. C. You answere my question in déede but as good neuer a whitte as neuer a deale the better For in suche sorte you giue the Magistrate authoritie to commaunde some kinde of apparell to the Minister that he can commaunde none vnto him whatsoeuer it be without some iniurie done to the Minister whiche is a verye straunge answere For first it restrayneth the Magistrate from hauing authoritie to 〈◊〉 any kinde of apparell for suche you saye it maye be that the Minister maye refuse it Then dothe it accuse the Magistrate of doing iniurie if he appoynte euen that kinde of apparell that he maye lawfully doe For you saye whatsoeuer apparell it be this commaundement can not be without some iniurie done to the Minister This is a very nyce authoritie giuen to the Magistrate but let the Reader well consider your wordes and marke what authoritie you giue to Magistrates One reason whereby you woulde proue that the Magistrate do he the Minister iniurie if he commaunde him to weare that kinde of apparell whiche is lawfull to be commaunded is this the Magistrate dothe allowe of him as a wise learned and discrete man c. and therefore it were somewhat harde not to trust him with the appoynting of his owne apparell c. First it is not true that the Magistrate dothe allowe of him c. For you wyll haue him chosen by the Parishe and the Magistrate can not knowe what kinde of Ministers euery Parishe dothe choose Secondly if the Magistrate allowe of him it is vpon condition that he be obedient to his lawes Thirdly the Magistrate may be deceyued in him and take him for another manner of man than he is Laste of all howe wyse howe learned howe discrete soeuer he is yet is it méete that he obey lawes and be subiecte vnto good orders May not other learned wyse and discrete men alleadge this for them selues also and say that they be able to gouerne themselues what néede they lyke children be prescribed what to doe And vndoubtedly at this day this is the voyce of diuers and this lesson of libertie belike they haue learned of you I doe moste humbly desire those that haue the care of this common wealthe but Wherevnto the assertion of the 〈◊〉 tendeth to consider what lyeth hidde euen in these
thought the doctrine of ceremonies to be conuenient Touching the great incommoditie and offence that you imagine to be in this apparell it is but your fansie which take y ◠apparel to be the cause of your nicenesse contempt disobedience cōtention such like remaining in you whē in deed it is nothing else but singularitie and preposterous zeale Wherfore that is to be remoued out of the hart rather than the apparel from the back To be shorte y t which you imagine of any opinion of the Religion in this aparel or superstition or any such lyke offence it is but a mere imagination to cloke couer the corruptions of the mynde before mentioned Chap. 5. the seuenth Diuision Answere to the Admonition Pag. 61. Sect. 1. I haue the rather set down these mens sayings at large bicause they be both pithie learned wholly to the cōfutation of your assertion Wherfore I conclude that a Christian Magistrate may reteine any ciuil politike or Ecclesiastical orders and rites of whom soeuer they wer inuēted or howsoeuer they haue bin abused so y t first they be not against the worde of God Secondly that Iustification and remission of synnes be not attributed vnto them Thirdly that the church be not troubled with the multitude of thē fourthly that they be not decreed as necessarie and not to be changed And last of all that men be not so tyed vnto them but that by occasion they may be omitted so that it be without offence and contempt T. C. Page 56. Sect. 4. And although they haue all these proporties whiche you recite yet if they bee not to edifying if not to God his glorie if not comely and agreeable to the simplicitie of the Gospell of Christ crucified they may not be established Io. Whitgifte It is sufficient if they perteyne to order and comelynesse as I haue before declared the iudgement whereof dothe not belong to euery priuate man but to suche onely as haue authoritie in the Churche to whose determination in suche matters all other of duetic are bound to submit themselues Chap. 5. the. 8. Diuision Ansvvere to the Admonition Pag. 62. Sect. 1. YEt one thing I must admonish you of that there is a difference A difference between worshipping of false gods and of the true God falsely to be made bewixt those things which were wholly dedicated to false gods and to be vsed in the worshipping of them and those things which were vsed in the false woorshipping of the true God for the Papistes herein differ from the Gentils that they acknowledge and confesse the true God and beleue the same articles of faith that we doe but yet worshyp him not aright nor beleue on hym in all poyntes as the worde of God prescribeth And therfore if thinges abused of the Gentiles and inuented by them maye bee vsed of Christians muche more may thinges inuented and abused by Papistes T. C. Page 56. Sect. 4. Concerning your distinction whereby you lessen the idolatrie of the Papistes I haue shewed the vanitie therof Io. Whitgifte And I haue answered whatsoeuer you haue there said but yet your reply in y t place will not serue euery circumstance of this place except you will say with y e Stoickes that peccata sunt paria all sinnes are equall Chap. 5. the ninth Diuision Ansvvere to the Admonition Pag. 62. Sect. 1. But of this matter I mynde also to speake some thing in the second parte of this Admonition T. C. Page 56. Sect. 5. But of this matter you say you will speake againe In deede so you doe and againe wherin you confounde the memorie and vnderstanding of the Reader and declare your selfe not only ignorant of Aristotles rule of 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 which is to speake of one thing generally and once for all but euen to be voyde of that order whiche men haue commonly by the naturall Logike of reason Neyther can you excuse your selfe in saying that the admonition giueth you so oftentimes occasion to speake of them and so to laye the fault vpon it for that it beyng written by diuets persons of the same matters wherof (a) A manifeste vntruth one knewe not of an others doing can not be blamed for the repetition of one thing twice when as you can not escape blame whiche myghte haue gathered easyly into one place that whiche is sayde of them in diuerse which thing although it be not so easy for me to do in your booke as it was for you to do in theirs yet I wil assay to doe it bothe in this and in all other poyntes that followe not thinking therby to bring this treatise of yours to any good order for that were to cast it newe againe and then you would complayne of your mind peruerted but that I might remedie this so great disorder which may be boone without chaunging any thyng of that which you haue set downe Io. Whitgifte I haue doone as you ought to haue doone if you had mente playnly for I haue folowed verbatim the booke that I confute in the same order that it is written which I thinke be that confuteth oughte to doe That the Admonition was written by dyuers persons the one not knowing of an others doing ▪ can not be true for both the partes haue one title they bée in one volume they were Printed in one letter at one tyme by one and the same Prynter and came abroade together neyther were they euer separated that I knowe or can vnderstande Moreouer this bewrayeth all and condemneth you for one that hath no conscience in wryting vntruthes that in the beginning of the Admonition mētion is made of both of these treatises in these woordes Two treatyses you haue heere ensuyng beloued in Christe whyche yee muste reade c. And in the ende of bothe these Treatises it is thus wrytten Weee haue thought good in the latter end of our booke for sundry consyderations to certifye you beloued brethren of the reasons that haue moued vs who are the authours of these treatyses to keepe backe oure names c. Fynally the order and maner of bothe these Treatises the stile the quotations c. doe manyfestly conuince you of false witnesse bearing but it is to vsuall with you I am not so cunning in Aristotle that I can be so bolde as to attribute that vnto hym whych is not to be founde in hym as you do in thys place for though he speake much of this rule 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 yet hath he no such thing as you father vpon him in this place It is méete that he whyche wryteth a booke of any matters shoulde of one matter speake fully in one place but hée that confuteth muste followe his order whome hée confuteth Whyche if you hadde doone in my Booke as I haue doone in theyrs eyther woulde not youre vnfaithfull dealyng haue bin so muche or else must it sooner or easylier haue bin espied You re tauntes I leaue to your selfe that haue
is one of the principall causes of edifying contrariwise such as refuse the same apparel not only dissent disagree among themselues but fal into diuers strange opiniōs without stay slander the gospel with their contentiousnesse and teare in peeces the Church of Christ with their factions and schismes and be the cause why both the worde of God and Christian magistrates be almost generally contemned T. C. Pag. 58. Sect. 2. The thirde reason is that they which consent in wearing the surplices consent also in all other poyntes of doctrine and they that doe not weare it do not consent not so muche as amongst themselues I this consent in the points of religion be in the surplice cope c. tell vs I beseech you whether in the matter or in the forme or in what h dde and vnknowne qualitie standeth it If it be n that the ministers vse all one apparell then it is maruel that this being so strong a bonde to holde them together in godlie vnitie that it was neuer commaunded of Christe nor practised of Prophets or Apostles ether of no other re ormed Churches I had thought wholly that those things whiche the Lorde oppoynteth to mayntayne and keepe vnitie with and specially the holie Sacramentes of Baptisme and of the Lordes Supper had bene strong ynough to haue fyrste of all knitte vs vnto the Lorde and therefore also to his doctrine and then one of vs to an other and that the dissentings in suche a Ceremonie as a Surplice c. neyther should nor could in those that 〈◊〉 vnto God breake the vnitie of the Spirite which is bounde with the bonde of truthe And although there bee whyche lyke not this apparell that thinke otherwyse than eyther theyr brethren or than in deede they oughte to doe yet a man may fynde greater dissent amongest those whiche are vnyted in Surplice and Cope c. than there is amongest those whyche weare them not eyther wyth them selues or with them that weare them For howe many there are that weare Surplices whiche woulde bee 〈◊〉 to saye a Masse than to heare a Sermon lette all the worlde iudge And of those that 〈◊〉 weare this apparell and be otherwyse well mynded to the Gospell are there not whiche wyl weare the Surplice and not the cappe other that will weare bothe cap end surplice but not the tippet and yet a thirde sorte that will weare surplice cappe and tippet but not the cop It hathe bene the manner alwayes of wyse and learned men to esteeme of things by the causes an not by the euent and that especially in matters of religion for if they should be esteemed of the euent who is there which wil not condemne the Israelites battel agaynst Aye and 〈◊〉 agaynst the Bemamites which notwithstandyng the cause which was Gods wil and Gods maundement iustifyeth And therfore in a word I answer that if there be such con ent mongst those which like well of this apparel and such arres amongst those y t like it not as M. 〈◊〉 woulde make the worlde beleeue neyther is the w aryng of a surplice c. cause of that consent in thē nor the not wearing cause of that disagrement in the other But as our knowledge and loue is vnperfect here in this world so is our agreement and consent of iudgement vnperfect And yet all these hard speaches of yours or vncharitable suspicions of papisme Anabaptisme catharisme dona sme c. wherby you do as much as lyeth in you to cut vs cleane of from you shall not be able so to estrange vs or separate vs from you but that we will by gods grace holde whatsoeuer you holde well and kepe that vnitie of spirit which is the bond of truth euen with you Master Doctor whom we s ppose as appeareth by this your booke to haue set yourselfe further frō vs than numbers of those whiche althoughe they be content to receiue the apparell and beare with things yet would haue bene loth to haue set downe that against the sinceritie of the Gospell and hind rance of reformation which you haue bone Io. Whitgifte Such lawes orders as kepe godly peace and vnitie in the Church do 〈◊〉 but the lawes for apparell kepe godly peace vnitie in the Church Ergo they edifie The M nor I proue by experience of such as are subiect to these lawes by the euent which is a probable kinde of reasoning though it be not necessarie neither may the examples of a few improue that which is generally true almost in all These persons that you talke of which be thus contrarily mynded if there be any such as I thinke you do but faine yet do they kepe the peace of the Church they condemne not their brethren neither yet the apparel that they them selues peraduenture for some speciall cause weare not Some I know there are which agrée with vs in wearing the apparell and ioyne with you in contention subscribe to all our orders articles and yet in certaine places and companies mainteine your opinions but of such we make no accompt neither I thinke do you further than they may serue your turne Againe I confesse that there be some which haue not receiued the apparell and yet greatly mislike many of your opinions and kéepe with vs the vnitie of the Churche whom I for my part haue alwayes reuerenced do reuerence not onely for their singular vertue learning but for their modestie also Wherfore when I speake eyther of the one or of the other I speake not of all but of the most part Certaine it is that those things which the Lord appointeth to kepe vnitie with and especially the sacraments ought to be the especiall bond of the same that nothing should separate those that are coupled and ioyned therein but we sée it fall out o the wise such is the crooked rebellious nature of mā therfore hath God also appointed Magistrats and giuen them a thoritie to make orders lawes to mainteine the peace and vnitie of the Churche that those which of conscience and good disposition will not by suche lawes and orders may be constrained at the least to kéepe the externall peace and vnitie of the Churche Doe you take this to be a good reason The Sacrament are bond to kepe and mainteyne the v itie of the spirite therefore there 〈◊〉 no lawes or Magistrates T. imagineth suche a perfection as is not to be ounde to prouide for the externall peace and quietnesse of the Churche your imagination throughoute your whole booke is of suche a perfection in men as thoughe they néeded no lawes or Magistrates to gouerne them but that euery man mighte be as it were a lawe to himselfe whiche wherevnto it tendeth may easily be coniectured I haue not set downe any thing I trust to the hinderance of the Gospell or of reformation ▪ but I séeke to reforme such contentious spirites as be enimyes vnto both And I
they signified but now they are tokens of the Ministers of the Gospell which are good and therfore they are good the signes of good The reason is M. Bucers I am not ashamed of my author and it is stronger than you can ouerthrowe For let me heare howe you will answere this argument whatsoeuer signifieth and noteth that which is good is a signe of good but this apparell signifieth that which is good Ergo it is a signe of good The Maior is euident The Minor is thus proued The ministerie of the Gospell is good but this apparel is a signe of the ministerie of the Gospell Ergo it is a signe of good All the Logike you haue can not answere this argument except you will denie the apparell to be the signe of the ministerie of the Gospel which were to denie y t which is subiect to the senses the other examples that I haue vsed doth make this matter more manifest I referre it to the Reader to iudge how fitly you haue answered them Whether they be good signes or no is not nowe the question but whether they be signes of good for that the Admonition denieth If you can conclude that they be euill bicause they be signes of euill why may not I likewise say that they be good bicause they be signes of good We commonly call that a good signe which is a signe of good neyther can you place this reason in any fallacian it is a signe of good Ergo it is a good signe for it is called a good signe in this respect onely that it signifieth that which is good Those names in respect of those whom they signified were good in the respect of the Externall things may be both good and euill in diuers respects The diuers 〈◊〉 vsed b T. C. in answering Idols to whome they properly belonged they were euill for such externall things in diuers respects may be both good euill The golden calfe was an Idoll made to be worshipped no signe of the true God and therfore vndiscretly here brought in Wheresoeuer I haue before alleaged these things you speake of yet be they answered neither here nor there this the Reader may note if he list that whersoeuer you cannot answere there either you frumpe girde after your maner or you cauill and confute your owne imagination or closely passe the matter ouer in silence or poste it ouer to some other place where you speake nothing of it Chap. 7. the tenth Diuision Admonition They worke discorde they hinder the preaching of the Gospell Ansvvere to the Admonition Pag. 241. Sect. 2. This is an argumente à non causa ad causam it is not the apparell that Non causa procausa worketh discorde or hindereth the preaching of the Gospell no no more than it is the worde of God that engendreth heresies or wyne that maketh drunke or the sworde that murthereth or the law that worketh iniurie c. But it is the sinister affection the rebellious nature the contentious minde of man For who began this contention or when was it begon Truely if the lawe for apparell were vtterly abrogated yet would not your contentiō cease nay it would burst out muche more vehemently and in farre greater matters as this your Admonition declareth And therefore I thinke rather that the lawe for apparell will stay further contentions especially if it be duely executed T. C. Pag. 60. Sect. 1. You say the cause of disorder is not in the apparell but in the mindes of men You meane I am sure those that refuse the apparell but if you make them authors of discorde bycause they consente not wyth you in wearing do you not see it is (*) It is as sone sayd but not so truely bycause the one ret yneth order and the other breaketh it assone sayd that you are the causers of discord bycause you doe not consent with those which weare not For as there should be vnitie in that point if all did weare that apparell so shoulde there be if all did weare none of it It is a very vnequall comparison that you compare the vse of this apparell with the vse of wyne and of a sworde which are profitable and necessarie but it is more intollerable that you match it with the worde of God I coulde throwe it as farre downe as you li te it vp but I will not doe so This onely I wyll say if there were no harme in it and that it were also profitable yet forasmuch as it is not commaūded of God expressely but a thing as you say indifferent and notwithstanding is cause of so manie incommodities and so abused as I haue before declared it ought to be sufficient reason to abolishe them seing that the brasen serpent which was instituted of the Lorde himselfe and conteyned a profitable remembrance of the wonderfull benefite of God towardes his people was beaten to pouder when as it beganne to be an occasion of falling vnto the children of Israell and seeing that S. Paule after the loue feastes which were kepte at the administration of the Lordes 1. Cor. 11. Supper and were meanes to nourish loue amongst the Churches were abused and drawne to another vse than they were first ordeyned did vtterly take them away and commaunde that they should not be vsed any more Io. Whitgifte I may answere you almost in the selfe same wordes and maner that M. Zuinglius answered one Balthazar an Anabaptist who charged him then as you charge vs now Zuinglius ad Balt. in this place consider saith he who be the authors and causes of dissention whether we that attempt nothing of our owne priuate authoritie but haue submitted our selues to the iudgement of the Church and of those that be gouernours of the same or rather you who so arrogantly without any such authoritie doe what you list speake what you list allow and condemne at your pleasure ▪ But for further tryall hereof I referre you to such notes as I haue collected out of Zuinglius and others and placed in the second edition of my Pag. 19. c. Answere to the Admonition Our consenting is according to our duetie required of vs by the worde of God towards such as be in authoritie your dissenting is contrarie to your dutie of obedience in such cases inioyned vnto you by the word of God If all refused the apparell wyth you yet would you not be quiet for you make this the least cause of your schisme I do not compare this apparell with the word of God but by these examples I shew the vnaptnesse of such arguments as be à non causa ad causam You haue throwne it downe as low as you can and if you could cast it lower your will is good therfore to say you coulde do it and wil not is as great an offence as was the midwiues lying to Pharao I haue shewed in my answere that as the case now standeth it is rather commodious
well gouerne a prouince or diocesse and vse the heipe of Archdeacons Chauncellors c. but so cannot the Pope doe whole Christendome what helpe or deputies soeuer he haue If agaynst your will you were constrayned to make such comparisons why do you make Difference betwene the Pope and our Archbishops them when there is no cause why do you forge that which is vntrue why do you ioyne togither offices which in no poynt are like The Pope chalengeth authoritie ouer all Christendome so do not our Archbishops The Pope exalteth himselfe aboue Kings and Princes so do not our Archbishops but with all reuerence acknowledge their subiection to the Prince The Pope sayeth that to be subiect vnto him is of necessitie to saluation so do not our Archbishops The Pope maketh his Decrées equall to the woorde of God our Archbishops thinke nothing lesse of theirs To be short the Pope oppresseth and persecutetth the Gospel they earnestly professe it and haue suffered persecution for it Therefore your comparison is odious your riotous speach more presumptuous than becommeth a man pretending your simplicitie Your good opinion conceyued of them is well vttered in your booke what spirit hath taught you thus to dissemble surely euen the same that hath falsified Scriptures and wryters in your booke that hath vttered so many prowde and contemptuous speaches agaynst your superiours that hath moued you to make contention in the Churche euen spiritus mendax spiritus arrogantiae superbiae a lying spirite the spirite of arrogancie and pryde for such frutes cannot procéede from any other spirite Chap. 3. the. 34. Diuision T. C. Pag. 82. Sect. 3. 4. But Ierome sayth that this distinction of a Bishop a minister or elder was frō S. Marke his tyme vnto Dionysius time whereby M. Doctor would make vs beleeue that Marke was the author of this distinction but that cannot be gathered by Ieromes wordes For besides that things being ordered then by the suffrages of the ministers and Elders it might as it falleth out oftentimes be done without the approbation of S. Marke the wordes from Marke may be rather taken exclusiuely to shut out S. Marke and the time wherein he liued than inclusiuely to shut him in the tyme wherein this distinction rose Howsoeuer it be it is certayne that S. Marke did not distinguishe and make those things diuers which the holy ghost made all one For then which the Lord forbid he should make the storie of the Gospell which he wrote suspected Io. Whitgifte This is no answere to Ieromes woordes but a dallying with them the place is euident he sayth from the time of Marke the Euangelist whom vndoubtedly he would not haue named vnlesse the same manner had bene in his time But be it that the wordes from Marke be taken exclusiuely which no man of Iudgement will graunt yet doth it argue a great antiquitie of this distinction euen from the moste pure and best time of the Churche It is certayne that these thinges were not otherwise distinguished than the holy Ghost had appoynted and therefore your for then c. is an vngodly collection and vnbeséeming your person in any respect to imagine of the glorious Gospell written by that holy Euangelist Chap. 3. the. 35. Diuision T. C Pag. 2. Sect. 5. Againe it is to be obserued that Ierome sayeth it was so in Alexandria signifying thereby An absurde collection that in other Churches it was not so And indeede it may appeare in diuers places of the auncient fathers that they confounded Priest and Bishop and tooke them for all one as Eusebius out of Ireneus calleth Ani ete Pius Telesphorus Higinus Xystus 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 Lib. 5. 16. De dignitate sacerdotali Elders and presidents Cyprian confoundeth Priest and Bishop in the Epistles before recited so doth Ambrose in the place alledged before by M. Doctor and yet it is one thing with vs to be a priest as M. Doctor speaketh and an other thing to be a Bishop Io. Whitgifte This argument passeth of all that euer I heard Ierome sayth there was a Bishop The passing Logike of T. C. in Alexandria aboue the other ministers from S. Markes time therefore there was no Bishop in any place else God is the God of Abraham Isaac and Iacob Ergo he is no bodies God else he is the God of the Iewes Ergo not of the Gentiles There be Bishops in England Ergo there are none in any other place No marueyle it is though you riot in your Logike when such stuffe is set abroad Like vnto this are the other Eusebius out of Ireneus calleth Anitete Pius Telesphorus c. elders and presidents and Cyprian confoundeth Priest and Bishop and so doth Ambrose Ergo euery Priest is such a Bishop as Ierome here speaketh of These be pretie argumentes Euery Bishop is a Priest but euery Priest hath not the name and title of a Bishop Difference betwixt byshop priest Hieronymus ad Euagrium in that meaning that Ierome in this place taketh the name of a Byshop For his woordes be these Nam Alexandriae à Marco Euangelista vsque ad Heraclam c. At Alexandria from Marke the Euangelist vntill Heracla and Dionysius Bishops the ministers alwayes chose one from among themselues and placing him in a higher degree of dignitie called him a Bishop as if an armie should make a Captayne ▪ c. Neyther shall you finde this woorde Episcopus commonly vsed but for that Priest that is in degrée ouer and aboue the rest notwithstanding Episcopus be oftentimes called Presbyter bycause Presbyter is the more generall name so that M. Doctor sayth truely that it is with vs one thing to be a Byshop an other thing to be a priest bycause euery Bishop is a Priest but euery Priest is not a Bishop I know these names be confounded in the Scriptures but I speake according to the manner and custome of the Church euen since the Apostles time And this is not onely my opinion but other learned men affirme it in lyke manner as M. Bucer in his booke De regno Christi and vpon the. 4. Ephes. Whose woordes I haue before rehersed Thus you sée that M. Doctors distinction is with better authoritie cōfirmed than you haue any to ouerthrow it Chap. 3. the. 36. Diuision T. C. Pag. 82. Sect. vlt. Ierusalem was a famous Church so was Rome as the Apostle witnesseth so was Antioche Rom. 1. and others where also were great contentions both in doctrine and otherwise and yet for auoyding of contention schisine there there was no (*) An vntruth one that was ruler of the rest Therfore we ought rather to follow these Churches beyng many in keping vs to the institutiō of the Apostles than Alexandria beyng but one Church and departing from that institution if there had bene any one set ouer al the rest in other places it would haue made much for the distinctiō that Icrome had
cōmon welth honor of the Prince than they be nowe in state and cōdition wherin they remain Bishops shal not now need to liue by pilling polling Amb. de dig sacerd August lib. 3. aduer Permenìa as it séemed they did in Cyprians tyme for he complaineth therof Ser. de lapsis Nor as some did in Ambrose or Augustins They haue God be thanked liuing sufficient with out any such vnlawfull meanes and I doubt not but if their expenses shall be compared with their predecessors it shall appeare that they be according to the proportion that God hath limitted vnto them But an eye dimmed with malice or bente to the spoyle can sée nothing that may hinder the desired purpose God roote out of the hartes of men such rauening affections and gréedie desires Of the Communion Booke Tract 9. The generall faultes examined vvhervvith the publike Seruice is charged by T. C. Chap. 1. the. 1. Diuision T. C. Page 102. Sect. 2. Before I come to speak of prayers I wil treat of the faults that arecomitted almost throughout the whole Lyturgie and publike Seruice of the Churche of Englande whereof one is that whiche is often obiected by the authors of the Admonition that the forme of it is taken from the Churche of Antichriste as the reading of the Epistles and Gospels so cutte and mangled as the moste of the prayers the maner of ministring the Sacramentes of mariage of burial Confirmation translated as it were worde for worde sauing that the grosse errours and manifest impieties be taken away For although the formes and ceremonies whiche they vsed were not vnlawfull and that they conteyned nothyng whiche is not agreable to the worde of God whiche I would they did not yet notwithstanding neyther the worde of God nor reason nor the examples of the eldest Churches both Iewish and Christian doe permit vs to vse the same formes and ceremonies beyng neyther commaunded of God neyther suche as there maye not as good as they and rather better be established Io. Whitgifte In these woords are conteined two false principles the one is that the forme and manner of prayer vsed in the Churche of England is taken from the churche of Antichrist the other that it is not lawful to vse the same formes of prayer and ceremonies that the Papists did this latter I haue already proued to be otherwise in the beginning Tract 7. cap. 5 diui 3. 4. c. where I spake of Ceremonies and intend hereafter to answere such arguments as shal be vsed to proue the contrarie the first wil appeare to be most vntrue being manifest that such things as we now vse in the booke of Common prayer though some of them haue ben vsed in the time of Papistrie were appointed in the church by godlie and learned men before the Pope was Antichrist or the Church of Rome greatly corrupted as the reading of the Epistle and gospell whiche is of verie long continuance in the Church euen whilest the church of Rome was as yet in the principall points Reading of gospels and epistles verie auncient of doctrine pure being also chosen places of scriptures apt for the time and moste to edifying which no honest heart and godly disposed person can discommende If in the administration of the sacraments celebration of mariage burying of the dead confirmation those thyngs that are good and profitable be reteyned and the grosse errours and Things bused maye be vsed imp eties being taken a waye manifest impieties taken away as you say they be why do you then on this sort trouble y e church for vsing that which is good refusing that which is euill Is Papistrie so able to infect the word of God godlie prayers and profitable Ceremonies that they may not be vsed in the Church reformed the errours and impieties being taken away Why doe we call our churches reformed Churches rather than newly builded or as it were wholly transformed but that we reteyne whatsoeuer we fynd to The churche is reformed not transformed be good refuse or reforme that which is euill But of these matters more is to be spoken as occasion is offered Hytherto you vse but woordes whiche haue no weyghte without good and sounde reasons Chap. 1. the. 2. Diuision T. C. Pag. 102. Sect. 3. For the worde of God I haue shewed before both by the example of the Apostles conforming the Gentiles vnto the Iewes in their ceremonies not contrarywise the Iewes to the Gentiles and by that the wisedome of God hath thought it a good way to kepe his people from the infection of idolatrie and superstition to seuer them from idolaters by outwarde ceremonies and therfore hath forbidden them to doe things which are in themselues verie lawfull to be don Io. Whitgifte What you haue spoken in any place of your booke cōcerning this matter is there answered wher it is spokē but you haue not as yet to my remēbrāce any wher shewed y t God euer hath forbidden his people to do things in themselues very lawfull to be done Tract 7. cap. 5 bycause the same were vsed by Idolaters I haue before proued the contrary both by the manifest words of the scripture and by the testimonie of Saint Augustine and diuers other learned writers Chap. 1. the. 3. Diuision T. C. Pag. 102. Sect. 4. Now I will adde this further that when as the Lord was carefull to seuer them by ceremonies from other nations yet was he not so carefull to seuer them from any as from the Egyptians amongst whome they liued and from those nations which were next neighbours vnto them bycause from them was the greatest feare of infection Therefore by this constant and perpetuall wisedome which God vseth to kepe his people from idolatrie it followeth that the religion of God should not only in matter and substance but also as farre as may be informe and fashion differ from that of the idolaters and especially the Papists which are round about vs amongst vs. (*) An vnadu sed 〈◊〉 For in deede it were more safe for vs to conforme our indifferent ceremonies to the Turkes which are arre off than to the papists which are so neare Io. Whitgifte The Egyptians and Idolatrous gentiles neither worshipped nor preteuded to The Gētiles and Papists not like in all respects worship the God of Israell and therefore no maruell though in rites and ceremonies they were vtterly seuered from them but the Papists eyther worship or pretend to worship the same God which we do and therefore there is no suche cause in all pointes of rites and ceremonies to differ from them And it is most vntrue that The Iewes and the Gentiles in some respect agreed in ceremo ies God so seuered his people from the Egyptians or other nations néere adioyning that they had nothing common with them or no ceremonies like vnto theirs for they were like in many things touching the externall forme The Gentiles had
sufficient to ground any certaine doctrine vpon being of faith and of saluation as you haue saide before the kinde of gouernment to be Wherefore it is you that disturbe and seeke to ouerthrow the order of gouernment appointed by God and therefore in the end you must looke to be ouerthrowen your selfe To your imagination of transforming simple vnap and vnlearned men to an aptnesse and 〈◊〉 of gouernment if your platforme were placed I will only answere that which Master Bullinger did to a fantasse of the Anabaptists not much vnlike You imagine and conceyue in your minde those things which neuer haue beene nor are extant and shall neuer hereafter be Chap. 2. the. 10. Diuision Admonition The nintéenth What should we speake of the Archbishops Court sith all men know it and your wisdome cannot but see what it is As all other Courtes are subiect to this by the Popes To proue that the regiment of the Church should be spirituall ade ph 1. 23. 1. Thes. 5. 13 1. Tim. 1. 2. Heb. 10. 30 〈◊〉 yea and by statute of this Realme yet vnxepealed so is it the filthie quaue ire poysoned plash of all the abhominations that do infect the whole Realme We speake not of licences graunted out of this Court to marrie in forbidden tymes as in Lent in Aduent in the gang week when ban ers and belles with the Priest in his surplesse singing Gospels and making crosses raungeth about in many places vpon the ember dayes and to forbidden persons in exempt places We make no mention of licences to eate white meate and flesh in Lent and that with a safe conscience for rich men that can buy them with mony nor we say nothing how dearly men pay for them s for dispensations with beneficed voyes tollerations for non reudents bulles to haue two benefices to haue three to haue more and as many as they list or can get these are so common that all godly and good men are compelled with griefe of heart to crie out vpon such abhominations We omit excommunication for money absolution for the same and that by absoluing one for another which how contrarie it is to the Scriptures the complaints of many learned men by propositions in open scholes proposed by wrytings in printed bookes set out and by preaching in open 〈◊〉 haue bene sufficiently witnessed To conclude this ilthie Court hath full power togither with the authoritie of this pettie Pope Metropolitane and primate of all England to dispence in all causes wherein the Pope was wont to dispence vnder which are conteyned more cases and causes than we are able to recken As for my Lordes grace of Yorke we deale not with him We referre him to that learned Epistle which Beza wrote vnto him about these matters Ansvvere to the Admonition Pag. 228. Sect. 1. 2. pag. 229. I thinke this Court to be necessarie for the state of this Church and Realme and if there be abuses in it either in the law it selfe or in the persons I wish it were reformed But the whole order of the Court is not therefore to be condemned no more than it is of other Courts which cannot be missed and yet haue abuses in them I confesse my selfe to haue little experience in such matters and therefore I will speake the lesse thereof As I do mislike that there should be any time forbidden to marry in for that can haue no good meaning or any dispensations for boyes to keepe benefices or excommunications and absolutions for money for one man to be absolued for another and if there be any other such like abuse so do I vtterly condemne your vnseemely and vnchristian termes as filthie quauemire poysoned plash of al abhominatiōs filthie Court especially cōsidering wherof they be spoken to whom and by whom they argue a scolding nature a stomack boyling with contempt of lawes The Church aundered by the Admonitors superiors Neither can I suffer you to slaunder not that Court but this Church with manifest vntruthes as you do when you say that banners belles and making of crosses be allowed to be vsed in the gangweeke and that the Archbishops court hath full power to dispence in all causes wherin the Pope was wont to dispence which both be most vntrue I thinke in dispensations this Court goeth no further than the lawes of the Realme do permit Agreeable to this spirit is your cōtemtuous speach vsed to both the Archbishops mē to be reuerēced not only in the respect of their yeres and authoritie but of their singular wisdome grauitie learning and sound religion also Howbeit you reuerence them as you do all other that be in authority except some whome you do but seeke to vse to bring your intentes to passe I will say no more I thinke you haue abused maister Beza with your false reportes Beza and others used by salse information which hath caused him to write otherwise than he woulde do if he knewe the whole state of the controuersie So you haue also abused other notable learned men and caused them to wryte according to yourfansie which since that time beeing truely informed haue by their letters which are to be seene both condemned your cōtentiousnesse and their owne to much credulitie But our faith and Church dependes neither vpon M. Beza nor any other man neither do they looke for any such prerogatiue But still you are without the booke T. C. Pag. 152. Sect. 1. In the. 228. page he thinketh the Archbishops Court necessarie but bringeth no reason and further confesseth himselfe ignorant of the estate of it and therefore I know not from whence that good opinion of his should come vnlesse it be from thence that he liketh of al things be they neuer so euill which the Admonition misliketh The rest which M. Doctor hath of this matter is nothing else but great and high wordes And as for the Canon law it is knowne what a stroke it beareth with vs and that a few cases excep ed it remayneth in his former effect Io. Whitgifte I haue shewed better reasons for it than you haue done agaynst it as yet For it 〈◊〉 made 〈◊〉 e ouerthrowne but by very strōg reasons is a reason for me sufficient that the Court is established by the authoritie of the Prince and the whole Realme and fit it is that very strong reasons should be vsed before this reason be reiected For in matters of gouernment place must be giuen to the gouernors law makers and to the state except there can be shewed inuincible reasons to the contrarie whereof you haue not in this place vttered one Of Deacons and Wydowes Tract 19. Of the office of Deacons Chap. 1. the. 1. Diuision T. C. Pag. 152. Sect. 2. It was before shewed that of the gouernors of the Church there were some whose charge perteyned vnto the whole Church of the which we haue spoken some other whose charges extend but to a part of the Church that is
realme for moste iuste consideration euen for the better gouernment of the Colledge beyng otherwise full of youth haue licensed beyng in the number of the twelue preachers chosen according to statute to continue in theyr felowships with one liuing besides to a certayne valewe If there were the like prouision in other places and the same furnished with such kinde of men the state of diuers Colledges in Cambridge would not be so tumultuous as it is Touching the parties themselues agaynst whom you so bitterly whette your The fello defended agaynst the poysoned tongue tongue vpon the same causes and quarrels you do agaynst me this I will speake vnfeynedly as I shall answere before God and the worlde they are sober honest wyse quiet men faythfull and learned preachers and that tyme of absence which is giuen vnto them by statute they do carefully bestowe in their cures and other places where there is néede according to their duetie and conscience except the necessarie gouernment of the Colledge and publike vtilitie do constrayne them to the contrarie The worste of them and he that is moste negligent dothe more good in the Churche and common wealth than you do or any of your adherentes I will not speake all that I might iustly least I shoulde seeme to flatter and in parte to commende my selfe but this is the summe none of vs refuse triall eyther of lyfe gouernment learning liuing or what soeuer is to be requyred in the ministers of God and dutifull subiectes towardes theyr Prince It is an egregious slaunder when you say they be pernicious examples of riotous feastinges c. I know the contrary and thinke not you but God will take due punishment of this your notorious malice vttered vpon priuate quarrell as it is well knowne to al this societie In déede they loue one an other agree among themselues obey lawes kéepe order labour to suppresse Schismes and this is that that whetteth your tongue and the tongues of other disordered persons agaynst them I could requite all these your harde speaches if I were disposed to deale so maliciously But I will temper my selfe desiring God not to impute these things vnto you the Reader I shall desire eyther to iudge the beste or to suspende his iudgement vntill he haue the triall The. 3. Diuision Ansvvere to the Admonition Pag. 225. Sect. 2. 3. You say all these come from the Pope c. It is not materiall frō whence they come so they be good profitable necessarie for the mainteyning of religion learning wise learned men but I pray you from what Pope came they or in what time did the Pope inuent them I tolde you before that such places and Colledges were in Augustines Deane allowed by S. Augustine time that he both hath the name of M. Deane and alloweth of his office If you had redde any auncient learned Authors as your writings declare you haue not then shoulde you finde that Collegiate churches be of great antiquitie euen since the yeare of our Lord. 235. But what can you speake agaynst Cathedrall churches which you may not as well speake agaynst the Colledges in the vniuersities They were not in the Apostles time neyther yet in the primitiue Barbarisme and confusion secretely intended Church must they therefore now be dissolued your meaning is belike to bring all to confusion and barbarisme You say no reformed church in the worlde knoweth them wherein I thinke you speake more than you know Can you name any reformed church that hath plucked them downe Peraduenture in diuers places where the gospell is now preached they had neuer such rewards for learning But what haue we to do in such cases with other reformed churches we haue to consider what is most meete for this church and state not to follow other as though we were children I see no cause why other reformed churches should not rather follow vs than we them seing in no respect we be inferiour to them Well to conclude your wordes be but vaine and your proofes none at all and therfore I doubt not but Cathedrall churches shall be able to withstande both your opprobrious speaches the greedinesse of all their aduersaries so long as it shall please God to blesse this land with so vertuous learned a Queene so wise and discrete counsellours T. C. Pag. 164. Sect. 2. And where he sayth it is not materiall although these Deanes Uycedeanes Canons Petycanons prebēdaries c. come from y e Pope it is as if he should say that it skilleth not although they come out of y e bottomlesse pitte For whatsoeuer cōmeth from the Pope which is Antichrist commeth first from the Deuill and where he addeth this condition if it be good c. in deede if of the egges of a Cokatrice can be made holesome meate to feede with or of a spiders webbe any cloth to couer withall then also may the things that come from the Pope the Deuill be good profitable and necessary vnto the church And where he sayth that Collegiate churches are of great annciēcie he proueth not the aunciencie of the Cathedrall churches onlesse he proue that cathedrall and collegiate be all one But I will not sticke with him in so small a matter and if our controuersie were of the names of these churches not of the matter I could be content to graunt his cause in this point as good as antiquitie without y e word of god which is nothing but rottēnesse could make it Io. Whitgifte This Replie neither answereth directly nor truly to any thing y t I haue set down Tract 7. For first it is vntrue that all things cōming frō an Antichristian Pope cōmeth first frō y e Deuill I haue sufficiently proued y e contrary in that portion where I speake of Good thinges may come from euill mē apparel of ministers an euill man may do some thing that is good euen as a good mā may do some thing that is euill as God doth worke y e good by y e one so doth the Deuill worke y e euill by the other Ethnikes haue made good lawes they haue appointed stipendes rewards for learning such other like good things which are profitable not to be reiected for the Authors sakes though they were members of Satan Secondly it is vntrue that Cathedrall Churches came from the Antichristian Cathe ll churches before the Antichristi l Popes The 〈◊〉 answereth not that which is demaunded Pope for I tolde you that they were in the yeare of our Lorde 235. at what tyme the Bishops of Rome were godly men and Martyres Thirdly you haue not answered my question for I demaunded from what Pope they came or in what time they were firste inuented And to this you say not one worde wherfore in effect you haue answered nothing If they be of so late a fundatiō it must néedes appeare who was the firste inuentor of them but if
with the fault of the print or by carping at the translation when the wordes being changed the sense remayneth or by alleadging that such a one or such another was of this or that iudgement as you for the most part hauing nothing but his bare name haue done All whiche thinges you haue committed in this booke ▪ but that you confute it by the authoritie of the worde of God by good and sound reasons wholy and not by peecemeale And if you bring the practise of the churches we desire that it may be out of authorities which are extant which are not counterfeyte and which were in the best and purest times And if you thinke that the credite of your Doctor ship or Deanry will beare out that which you cannot answer your selfe besides that * 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 is neuer shut ▪ remember M. Doctor that lighte is come into tht worlde and The reuenging eye men will not be deluded with nothing nor abused with visards neyther let it embolden you which peraduenture hathe made poli presume the more in ▪ this booke to write any thing vppon hope that no man dare answer it For neyther the Queenes Maiestie nor hir honorable counsell as we are perswaded will deale so sharply with those whome they know to be faithfull and lawfull subiects which pray that all the treasures of Gods wisedome may be poured vpon them neither haue we cause to thinke but that as the euill opinion which is in part conceiued of vs hath growen vppon false and vntrue informations whiche you and such other haue giuen in crying in their eares that we be Anabaptists conspired with Papists Puritanes Donatists bringers in of confusion and anarchy enimies to ciuill gouernment and I know not what euen so when hir Maiestie and their honours shall vnderstand how farre we are from those wicked opinions they will leaue that opinion of vs ▪ and rather esteeme of vs by that we haue preached taught and now write than that whiche other men report of vs being thinges which we neuer taught ▪ spake or so much as dreamed of Io. Whitgifte It is so farre from satisfying me in any point that it greatly confirmeth me in some thing where vnto before I did but incline Such is the weakenesse of your grounds Your request made vnto me is against all reason for how can you require that of The Replye requireth that of others which he him selfe woulde not performe me towarde you which you haue in no respect perfourmed towards me for firste you haue not set downe my booke that the Reader mighte perceiue how vprightly you deale with me secondly you haue passed ouer many thinges and left them vnanswered Thirdly you haue vnreasonably wrested my words and in most places you do nothing but wrangle you haue mangled my booke and so skipt from place to place that the Reader shall hardly perceine what you take or what you leaue to be short you haue vsed few scriptures and those vntollerably wrested How then can you require the contrary of me But I haue satisfied your request to the full I trust saue only I do not intend to learne of you how to answer what authoritie to vse but if the authorities and reasons that I bring shall be sound to be light they shall the more easily by you be remoued I depend not vppon the credit of my Doctorship or Deanry neither would I wish you too much to trust to the opinion of your owne learning and witte I say with Sainte Augustine Let scripture be compared with scripture reason with reason authoritie with authoritie cause with cause and let vs both according to the same be iudged I doubte not of the answering of my booke neyther do I feare it you knowe that Conference by writing hath bin often offered to the Replier I haue offered you diuerse tymes this kind of conference though not in thys publike manner I haue spoken nothing agaynste you before hir maiestie whyche your bookes and doings haue not proued to be true Hir Maiestie and their honours know what they haue to do the Lord blisse them with his holy spirit and in all their doings guide them Of the additions detractions and alterations made by the admonitors in both the partes of the Admonition T. C. Pag. 173. Sect. 1. Beside that often thne M. Doctor doth account the expositions and explanations corrections he ueth vs somewhat the lesse hope that he will correct his errours for that he purfueth the authours of the Admonition so harde correcting their very small and few slips whiche they haue made calling this singular destie and commendable hum tie amongst other reproches dalying and inconstancie when it is our profession euery day to learne better things For vnto what end should we liue if time if experiēce if reading iusing if conference should teach vs nothing And therefore when thinges are printed againe it is good and prayse worthy to polishe those thynges which are some what rud to mitigate these things which are too sharpe to make playne to giue light to those things which seeme darker and to correct that which is amisse I thinke M. Doctor should not be ignorante that wise men haue their 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 there second councells and those also wiser and better than their first as that sentence doth declare I will therefore say no more hereof but admonish M. Doctor that he receiue more louingly those whiche correcte themselues seing that the best defense to his booke must be not a correction here and there but a cleane blotting or striking out not an amending but a new making almost of his whole booke Other matter in his censures he hath almost none at all woorth the answering sauing that he hathe a place or two which toucheth the matters before entreated of Io. Whitgifte It behoueth such as will take vpon them to plucke downe that which is wel builded They whiche wil pul down the olde and place a newe platforme oughte to be v rie circumspecte and to make a new platforme to be well aduised what they do and assured of their cunning if this ought to be in humane matters and in externall affaires of the life of man how much more ought it to be in diuine matters and things perteyning to the kingdome of heauē I do not mislike that modestie and humilitie that is contente to be corrected and to acknowledge that whiche is ami e. But I can by no meanes allowe that pryde and arrogancie that presuming to condemne the whole state of a Churche and to prescribe vnto the same a newe platforme is by and by after through vnskilfulnesse and lack of discretion at the first constreyned to misselyke that newe platforme also and to p ce it and patch it like a beggers cloke with putting too and taking fro with altering and chaunging sometyme this and sometyme that like vnto foolishe and vnskilful buylders It behoueth suche as will take vpon them
phansies they haue in this booke which they can not grounde vpon any scriptures but by wringing and wresting of them and in deede their seeking is to haue all things framed according to their fansies that they may be accompted planters and platformers of churches I omitte this that the author boasteth that he and many others will set thē selues against vs as the professed enimies of the churche of Christ For the matter is not great neither shall they in that point dea e an otherwyse with vs than the Anabaptistes 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 ther H e likes haue dealte with other Churches This shal be sufficiēt for an answere to y ◠booke bicause all other matters of substance are by me answered before in the former cōfutatiō Io. Whitgifte Nothing answered neither is this proclamation of defense solued A briefe ansvvere to certaine Pamphlets spread abroad of late I haue of late receiued three litle Pamphlets the first as it were a preface to the other two the second entituled An exhortation to the Bishops to deale brotherly with their brethren The thirde An exhortation to the Bishops and their clergie to answere a litle booke that came foorth the last Parliament and to other brethren to iudge of it by Gods worde vntil they see it answered and not be carried away with any respect of men The preface cōsisteth of these pointes especially first by diuers exāples it is there declared that the wicked and vngodly of this world could neuer away with suche as would reproue them for their manifest sinnes and vngodlines Secondly that this is the cause why these twoo treatises whiche were lately written and imprinted in the laste Parliament time c. wer of so many misliked and the authors therof so cruelly entreated and streightly imprisoned c. Thirdly it raileth on the bishops and such as be in authoritie comparing them to false prophets and to Phariseis c. Last of all it cōcindeth with threatening that if they go forwarde in their synnes their doings shal be with more bitternes of wordes and plainenesse of speache throwen into their faces The first is nedelesse for who knoweth not that from time to time it hath bin the manner of such as were desperatly wicked not to suffer their sinnes openly to be reproued The second is false vncharitable slaunderous for the cause why the bookes be not estemed especially of the wise learned is the vntrue doctrine conteined in them mainteined with vntrue and v apt allegations of the scriptures and enterlaced with opprobrious termes and railing speaches tending to the disquietnes of the church and ouerthrow of true religiō The authors therof to be imprisoned not for telling any mā of his sinnes but for writing libels against this whole church of England against the booke of common praer against the ministery against y e sacraments finally against the whole forme and gouernmēt of the church by the whole consent of this Realme established and according to the rule of Gods word And with what face can you say that they be imprisoned for telling men of their sinnes where euer reade you or heard you that any of the Prophets or Apostles tolde men of their sinnes by libels Surely Libelling is no true way of reforming that kinde of dealing is not for the Apostles of Christe but for the ministers of Sathan T C. Pag. 177. Sect. 1. here he saith the authors of the Admomtion are not punished or their booke misliked for that it telleth of the faults in the church or of the sinnes of men but for y t it mainteineth false doctrine for that they preferred a libel for the doctrine it appeareth by that which is said what it is And if he would define what a libel were ▪ it were easy to answere vnto the other point If he meane bicause it was preferred without any name vnto it how will he answere (*) Forsoo h 〈◊〉 you make wicked comparison to the example of S. Iohn in y e Apocalips who reprehend ng the ministers o diuers churches ▪ did not (a) A manifest vntruth put to his name vnto his book And to the writer of the Epistle vnto the Hebrewes ▪ which was a singular instrument and did not subscribe his epistle wherin notwithstāding he sharply rebuketh diuers faults amongst thē And yet S. Iohn nor the writer to the Hebrues were not the ministers of Satan And if he call it a libell bycause it vseth some sharper speaches surely all men see that his booke deserueth then to be called a Satyr hauing for tart words bitter and for one twenty But in what respect soeuer he calleth it a libell he accuseth not so much the authours of the Admonition for preferring of it as diuers of the honorable house of Parliament which did allow it Io. Whitgifte The comparison is very vnequall and odious that you make betwixte the holy bookes of the Scripture indited by the spirit of God and reputed and taken as portions of the canonicall scriptures wherein only we haue to séeke the doctrine of saluation and these rayling rude vncharitable and vnlearned Admonitions And yet in the one of them that is in the Reuelation you are fouly ouershot for the name of Iohn setteth his name to the Apocalips both in the beginning end the author of that booke is expressed thrée times in the firste chapter and that with such circumstances that it cannot well be doubted who the author was though you would cauill about the multiplicitie of the name Likewise his name is expressed in the latter chapter of the booke wherefore you were not well aduised when you set it downe that S. Iohn in the Apocalips did not put his name to his booke He saithe in the. 1. cap. in the first verse Seruo suo Iohanni and in the. 4. verse Ioannes 7. ecclesijs quae sunt in Asia and a little after Ego Ioannes frater vester c. and in the last chap. Ego Ioannes qui audiui vidi haec The epistle to the Hebrues hath no opprobrious and slanderous words in it neither doth the author thereof séeke to defame or deface any body as the authors of the Admonition do If my booke be comparable to eyther of the Admonitions in sharpe and vncharitable speaches proue it vnto me by comparing them togither and surely I will like the worse both of my boke and of my self and confesse that I haue offended Although I might excuse my selfe in saying that I haue done it in the defense of the truth and vendicating this Church of England from such vntollerable slanders as they burthen it with If any of the honorable house of Parliament did consent to the publishing of it in that manner and forme that it was published which I am sure they did not as you vndutifully and vntruly charge them I will not excuse them and yet they cannot be said to be either the authors or the publishers of it neither can their allowing of