deuice to the doctrine of our saluation than what is euidently reuealed and directly witnessed in the Scriptures Whether it be of Christ sayth Austen or of any other thing what soeuer touching the faith I say not if we who are no way comparable to him that so spake but that which followeth if an Angell from heauen teach you BESIDES that which you haue receiued in the Scriptures of the Law and the Gospell holde him accursed It is a manifest fall from the faith sayth Basil either to abrogate any thing that is written or to bring in any thing that is not written For when once we beleeue the Gospel sayth Tertullian this we first beleeue that there is nothing besides which we ought to beleeue So that the meere bloud and single bodie of Christ are but sleights of yours with vnknowen phrases to draw your Reader from asking or eying your proofes for the death of Christes soule and the paines of the damned to be suffered by him before wee could be redeemed The Scriptures are maine and manifest for that which I beleeue and teach and which the whole Church of Christ before mee taught and beleeued these fifteene hundred yeeres afore your conceit of hell paines in the soule of Christ was either hatcht or heard of The sufferings of the soule and the wrath of God which things you now catch holde on to make some introduction to your secret and priuate fansies are too generall to inferre either the death of the soule or the paines of the damned except to the rest of your absurdities you will adde these that the soule neuer suffereth but it dieth the death of spirits and that Gods anger in this life hath none other effects but damnation Here you vrge a reason against vs if then our soules be not redeemed by the blood of Christ our bodies haue no benefite of Redemption from death You hunt so headily after aduantages of words by some ambiguitie in them that you neither remember what the Scriptures teach nor what your selfe defend nor when I vse a word in the same sense that the Apostle doth It is not my deuise but the Apostles doing to take REDEMPTION of the body for the incorruption of the same We sigh in our selues saith Paul wayting for the Redemption of our body And againe you are sealed by the holy spirit of God vnto the day of Redemption When that day shall be our Sauiour telleth vs in these words When the powers of heauen shall be shaken and you see the sonne of man come in a cloud with power and great glory then lift vp your heads for your Redemption draweth neere In all which places Redemption is taken for none of those mercies or graces which are bestowed on Gods children in this life but for that glorie and immortalitie which shall be reueiled on them when Christ shall come to iudge the world and namely the Redemption of the body for that incorruption wherewith our vile bodies shall bee changed and made like to his glorious body Take then the Redemption of the body for the incorruption of the same as the Apostle plainely doth and I did and see what absurditie or obscuritie there is in my reason which you so much wrangle with and wonder at as though it passed all vnderstanding The Redemption which we haue in this life by the bloud of Christ must needes bee either of body or of soule we haue no more parts to be redeemed by Christ. But the Redemption of our bodies we haue not in this world we must waite for it till this corruptible put on incorruption The Redemption therefore which we haue in this life or shal haue before the last day is the Redemption of our soules And so the words of Peter You were Redeemed with the precious bloud of Christ and of the Saints in heauen saying to the Lambe Thou hast redeemed vs to God by thy bloud pertaine expresly to the Redemption of their soules because their bodies then did and yet do lie in corruption What so strange monsters or marueiles doeth your Logicall head finde in this reason that you should make such wonderizations at it and protestations against it Is it not open and easie to all that be meanely witted or soberly minded But you haue three things to note in my words which you alleage 1. The Proposition is vaine and Illogicall hauing no consequence in it at all It is a speciall point of Art memoratiue in you to note three things and vtterly to forget two of them For in this whole Section you doe not so much as mention any second or third thing to bee noted in those words which you cite The first and al which you note is that my proposition is vaine Illogicall and vncoherent Your idle and vntheologicall head hath ouer busied it selfe with many mad multiplications and what ifs vpon this proposition and yet you come nothing neere the sense or coherence of it The Proposition hath two parts whereof the second is either an illation out of the Apostles words vpon the first being a supposition of yours if we limit it to the time of this life or if wee speake without restraint of time as you doe it is a necessarie consequent to the former being the condition and cause of the latter That our soules are not redeemed by the bloud of Christ but by his soule is a resolution of yours wherewith you giue a fresh on-set in the next Section as the Reader shall there perceiue though here in shew you somwhat relent after your inconstant maner That being a position of yours I added by the Apostles warrant that our bodies haue not their Redemption in this life but must stay for it till the day of Redemption or generall resurrection And so the reason standeth If our soules be not here redeemed by the bloud of Christ which is your Assertion our bodies by the Apostles doctrine haue no Redemption in this life But this That wee should presently haue no Redemption in body or soule by the bloud of Christ is quite m contrarie to the words of Peter who sayth Yee are redeemed by the bloud of Christ not yee shall be and of the soules in heauen that say to Christ thou hast redeemed vs by thy bloud when their bodies were rotten in the earth Since therefore either body or soule must haue Redemption in this life and the body as Paul assureth vs hath not Redemption in this life Ergo the Redemption which we haue in this life by the bloud of Christ must bee referred to our soules and our bodies must expect the generall day of Redemption in the end of the world before they shall haue it If the sober and wise Reader vnderstand not this reason or can dislike the sequence of it I am content he shall condemne it as darke and obscure but if it be open to all mens eyes saue yours then is your
of Christ on the Crosse. Now the relatiue following QVOD enim must either be referred to all that went before and so not to malediction apart from the rest or to that which went next before which is the chasticement of our peace And so either way you were ouer bold with your Author to referre his words whether pleased you And farder answere to Ierom there needed none For to no proofe needed no answere And yet what better answere could you haue then for Ieroms meaning since his words are not generall to haue Ieroms conclusion in that very place brought you which best serueth to shew Ieroms intent Of Christs hanging on the Crosse Ierom speaketh noting that to be a cursed kinde of death out of the Apostle which I am farre from denying So doth he of digging Christs hands and feete out of the Psalme and of the rest of Christs wounds and stripes by which we were healed out of the Prophet whom hee expoundeth All which Christ suffered for vs being in deed due to vs for our sinnes Leaue out your falsifying of Ieroms words and sense that whatsoeuer curse was due to vs for our sinnes Christ suffered for vs and I see no cause why Ieroms words should neede any answere That this place of Esaie and the whole Doctrine which I auouch touching these fufferings of Christ may be the better receaued let vs note that the publike Doctrine appointed by Authoritie to be taught throughout England expresseth the same Namely Nowels Catechisme Since the Scriptures which plentifully and plainly teach vs the true price and meanes of our saluation giue no warrant of your new found Doctrine and the whole Armie of Auncient and learned Fathers who could ill instruct the people committed to their charge if they themselues were ignorant of the true meaning of their Creed and Catechisme neuer heard nor thought of your late deuised Redemption by Christs suffering the very paines of hell and the same which the damned doe suffer without any dispensation or Qualification for so it liketh you to speake if you could produce moe new writers of your mind then you doe or can they must pardon me for not admitting any Doctrine touching our Redemption but what I see grounded on the plaine euidence of the Sacred Scriptures and so receaued in the Church of Christ before our Age. I list not to deuise or approue a new Saluation vnknowen till our time and if any man be otherwise minded he shall goe alone for me God grant me to be a member of that Church which hath reuerently receaued and faithfully beleeued the simplicitie of the Scriptures touching our Redemption by the death and bloud of Christ Iesus Howbeit I see many men speake diuersly that meane nothing lesse then your late found hell inflicted by the immediat hand of God on the Soule of Christ. Where then you dreampt in your Treatise as you still doe in your Defence that whosoeuer named the wrath of God in Christs sufferings or called his Crosse a cursed kinde of death was wholy of your side I did in few lines reprooue that folly of yours and since you quoted no speciall words neither out of Master Nowels Catechisme nor out of the Bible appointed publikely to be read in the Churches of this Realme nor out of the Booke of Homilies that were worth the standing on there was no cause why I should wast time to hunt after your meaning If you would haue an answere it was meete you made your Arguments and pressed your Authorities as well as you could and then you should soone see what I said vnto them But as I then foretold so you now performe Your buzzing head no where findeth the wrath of God or horror of Iudgement against our sinne to be apprehended by Christ but you straightway conclude all your conceits from the first to the last These words when I reade them in any man offend not me as they helpe not you except you wrest them after your manner to hide vnder them your new found hell and the rest of your presumptuous and irreligious humours Begin with the Catechisme and see what choise you haue made thence There it is thus taught He payd and suffered the paine due to vs and by this meanes deliuerd vs from the same With Christ as our suretie God dealt as it were with extremitie of law Christ therefore suffered and in suffering ouercame death the paine appointed by the euerliuing God for mans offence What of all this What one worde is here sounding towards the death of the soule or the death of the damned after this life The Catechisme in the very same sentence expressely speaketh of the painefull and reprochfull death which the Iewes inflicted on Christ the manner whereof is orderly described in the next answere before These things sayth the Catechisme the Iewes did vnto him cruelly maliciously and wickedly but Christ willingly of his owne accord suffered ALL THOSE THINGS from the Iewes to appease with this most sweete sacrifice his father offended with mankinde vtque paenas nobis debitas dependeret persolueret atque nos ex illis hoc modo eximeret and to pay and satisfie the punishments due to vs thereby to exempt vs from them Cum Christo quasi sponsore pro nobis sic passo Deus summo quasiiure egit God dealt after a sort seuerely with Christ as with a surety suffering thus for vs but to vs whose sinnes deserued punishments and due paines transtulit in Christum hee transferred on Christ God shewed singular mercie and clemencie All this is plainely referred to the punishments and paines which Christ suffered at the hands of the Iewes by the secret counsell and appointment of God that thereby he might pacifie the wrath of his Father and deliuer vs from the shame paine and death due to our sinnes which God transferred and remoued from vs to Christ that he might suffer them and we be freed both here and hereafter for them Wherein great fauour and mercie were shewed to vs and Christ as it were a Suretie subiected for vs after a sort to the rigour of the Lawe What hurt is there in these wordes if you leaue haling and pulling them from their right sense The Authour of the Catechisme warily forbeareth the generall which you seeke after so greedily and when hee commeth to the places that might seeme harsh he qualifieth them with quasi as it were not meaning to presse those phrases as you doe to the vttermost Wherefore he saith that Christ was quasi sponsor a kinde of suretie suffering for vs and that God dealt with him Quasi summo iure as it were with riger in respect of the lenitie shewed to vs. Which speeches if you poyson them not with your bitter conceits I mislike not so long as they be stretched no further then to SIC passo pro nobis Christ THVS suffering for vs at the hands of the Iewes to which the writer of the Catechisme wisely
and yet none of them maketh Christ sinfull hatefull or defiled which is your vncleane doctrine We affirme sayth Austen that Christ had no sinne neither in soule nor flâ—…sh and yet in taking flesh after the likenâ—…sse of sinfull flesh by sinne he condemned sinne Which being somewhat obscurâ—…ly spoken by the Apostle may be two wayes opened either because the similitudes of things vse to be called by the names of the things themselues and in that respect the Apostle would call the similitude of sinfull flesh Sinne or els because the sacrifices for sinnes in the Law were called sinnes all which were the figures of Christs flesh the true and only sacrifice for sinne A third way is that the punishment of sinne is after a sort called sinne as being a consequent to sinne which S. Austen before testified and in that respect as well mortalitie as all other miseries and infirmitâ—…s that inuaded mans nature for sinne may be called sinne that is the effects of sinne The wrongfull and shamefull death of Christ Chrysostome Theodoret Theophylact and others take to be the punishment of our sinnes in the flesh of Christ and in that regard they thinke Christ was made sinne that is punished as a sinner though he were innocent and righteous Him that was righteousnesse it selfe God made sinne that is he suffered him to be condemned as a sinner and to die as one accursed for accursed was he that hung on a tree Christ sayth Theodoret when he had fulfilled all righteousnesse and not admitted any blemish of sinne and yet as a sinner sustained the death of sinners he reproued the iniustice of sinne that deliuered his bodie to death no way deseruing it and dissolued both sinne and death Theophylact as his maner is followeth Chrysostome almost word for word The Sonne who knew no sinne and was righteousnesse it selfe the Father made to die for vs as if he had beene a sinner and malefactour S. Austen ioyneth with them Christ had the similitude of sinfull flesh because his flesh was mortall sinâ—… vllo omnino peccato but vtterly without any sinne that by sinne for similitude he might condemne the sinne that is in our flesh through true iniquitie True iniquitie in Christ there was none mortalitie there was Peccatum non suscepit sed poenam peccati suscepit Suscipiendâ—… sinâ—… culpâ—… poenam poenam saâ—…it culpam Christ tooke not our sinne vnto him he tooke the punishment of our sinne And taking the punishment without any fault he healed both the punishment and the fault I leaue the Reader to his choise which of these he will embrace or whether he will conioyne them all together for the one impugneth not the other they all impugne the Defenders false collections and lewd surmises out of these places that Christ when he is called sinne is intended by the Scriptures to be defiled with our sinnes and hatefull to God and accursed of him for our sinnes which the Church of Christ did neuer endure to heare Master Caluin warily enough sayth Vt personam nostram suscepit peccator erat maledictionis reus As Christ tooke vpon him our person he was a 〈◊〉 and guiltie of the curse I had rather you had commended Master Caluins wisdome to ioyne with the whole Church of God in giuing Christ his due then his warinesse in going a by-way without all the learned and Catholike fathers to hemme Christ within the guilt of our sinne and curse Master Caluin truely I honour for his great gifts and paines in the Church of God but I may not take him for the first founder of Christian religion and therefore where he dissenteth from the worthie Pillers of Christs Church in matters of Doctrine I dissent from him And I more commend his warinesse elsewhere and thinke it fit that when his speech soundeth somewhat hard or offensiue to the Godly it should be expounded by other places of his writings least you make him in so waightie points as these are very inconstant or very inconsiderate This therefore which you bring I interpret by none other then himselfe vsing the very same words of the very same matter in his Commentaries vpon the very next Epistle of Saint Paul before this which you quote You shall haue it in Latine because you shall see how he qualifieth these very words which you would presse to your aduantage PERSONAM nostram QVODAMMODO suscepit vt reus nostro nomine fieret tanquam peccator iudicaretur non proprijs sed alienis delictis quum purus foret ipse immunis ab omni culpa paenamque sâ—…biret nobis non sibi debitam Christ tooke vnto him our Person AFTER A SORT that he might be accused or Iudged in our Name and condemned as it were for a Sinner not for any of his owne offences but other mens since he himselfe was pure and FREE FROM ALL FAVLT or guilt and suffered the punishment due to vs not to him Take these mitigations from Master Caluins owne mouth and then your labour is lost in putting his words to the Racke and these are farre truer then your whirlegigges set running by the businesse of your Braine Christ was AFTER A SORT A SINNER Saith Caluine that is Christ presented the Persons and procured the cause of vs â—…at were sinners and was guiltie that is accused condemned or punished in our steedes Reâ—… doth not alwaies import an offender if you know what Latine meaneth it noteth one â—…uius res agitur whose cause is handled or brought into Iudgement whether he be guiltie or innocent And when it goeth farder then iudiciall inquisition it may be applied either to the fault which is conuinced or to the Iudgement which is decreed or to the punishment which is deserued or appointed And so the word 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 in Greeke which the new Testament vseth for guiltie or worthie of or subiected to punishment is as much as fast held either by the Crime committed or by the sentence pronounced or by the punishment prepared and assured Thus you see Caluins words limited by himselfe make nothing for you and howsoeuer you rack the word Reus you may not thereby bring Christ to be defiled or hatefull with our sinnes except mercie humilitie and charitie by your learning defile the Sonne of God and make him hatefull to his Father Euen as by Gods true and reall imputation not by any iâ—…hesion we now in this life are iust holy and blamelesse before God so was he sinfull and defiled by Imputation not inherently This is neither the Apostles speech nor sense it is your soone-come and soone-gone gathering from the Apostles words The one is the cause of the other but the one is not in all points proportioned to the other God made him Sinne for vs that we might be made the righteousnesse of God in him Thus speaketh the Apostle Omit Christs Sacrifice for sinne whereby our sinnes were pardoned and purged that we might be made the righteousnesse of God in him by the remitting of all our sinnes and the restoring vs to the fauour of God and graunt these words that
day shall award heauen and hell with the warrant of this speech I was hungrie and yee gaue me meate I thirsted and yee gaue me drinke I was a stranger and ye lodged me I was naked and yee clothed me I was sicke yee visited me I was in prison and yee came vnto me and so foorth where in one Chapter Christ calleth his members by the name of himselfe 27. times All which are most false of Christs person for he then raigned in glory at the right hand of his Father endured none of those miseries but yet they are most true in his members whom he calleth by the name of himselfe because he loued them as himselfe more then himselfe since for their sakes he humbled and emptied himselfe And this reason of his words himselfe will giue before men and Angels â—… In as much as you did it vnto one of the least of my brethren you did it vnto mee The same is verie vsuall in the Scriptures Hee that heareth you heareth me and he that despiseth you despiseth me He that receaueth you receaueth mee They haue not reiected thee said God to Samuel they haue reiected mee He that toucheth you toucheth the apple of his eie Where a most louing acceptation is shewed of the sufferings and seruices of men for Christes sake but no proper attributton verified of Christ. This Damascene expresseth by making two kinds of appropriation vnto Christ in the Scriptures one naturall and substantiall the other personall and habituall Naturall as when the Lord in Nature and trueth being made a man had experience of things incident to our Nature Personall and habituall as when one putteth on the person of another for pittie or loue and vseth speech in his name and for him NOTHING APPERTAINING TO the speaker HIMSELFE According to which Christ appropriated the curse and dereliction due to vs not himselfe being made those things but assuming our person and reckoning himselfe with vs. For neither as God nor as man was he euer forsaken of his Father neither was he made sinne nor a curse Assuming therefore our person and reckoning himselfe with vs as the head for the members he spake these things For weâ—… were guiltie of sinne and malediction as incredulous and disobedient and for that cause were forsaken Which are Cyprians plaine words also Quòd pro eis voluisti intelligi qui deseri à Deo propter peccata meruerant Thy complaint of forsaking thou wouldst haue vnderstood as spoken for them who had deserued to be forsaken of God in regard of their sinnes Then by Cyprians iudgement Christ spake those wordes neither for himselfe nor of himselfe but for those and of those that deserued to be forsaken of God whom he calleth by the name of himselfe as he doth oftentimes elsewhere in the Scriptures because they were members of his bodie and as deare to him as himselfe If this be all that Cyprians words imply how come you to make that false and prophane collection out of Cyprian that Christ suffered such a forsaking of God touching sense of paine and want of present seeling of comfort in his paines AS THE DAMNED DOE You would faine set your infernall imaginations to sale vnder the names of some of the auncient Fathers to inure your Reader with the name of the DAMNED lest he should detest your irreligious presumption if you should proferre these pedegrees in your owne name But a man may know the fowle by the feather and your deuices shew themselues by the verie vtterance of them For expressing two points in Christes sufferings the one is sensiblie absurd the other apparantly false and wicked The paine of Christes soule you euery where defend was inflicted by the immediate hand of God and was the selfe same which the damned doe suffer Then how could this be called a forsaking in Christ when it was rather a plaine persuing of him by Gods owne hand Doth a man depart from an other when he persueth him or forsake him whom he followeth with the stroke of his hand If therefore Christes suffering in soule came from the immediate hand of God as you dreame Christ should haue said my God my God why persuest thou me or why doth thine hand oppresse me and not why doest thou forsake me and leaue me in the hands of mine enemies without any shew that thou regardest or respectest me The second point is farre woorse For if Christ had no more comfort in his paine theâ—… the damned haue then Christ for the time of his suffering had neither faith hope grace nor loue of God nor any fauour with God nor â—…xpectation that hee himselfe should be saued much lesse that he should saue others from all which the damned are cleane cut off Indeed this was the conceit that the diuel by the mouths of the wicked did vrge against Christ to vpbraid him with his case as desperate and to persue him as forsaken of God and therefore this resolution that Christ was thus indeed forsaken or felt no more present comfort then the damned doe is plainly the diuels Diuinitie and maketh as flat a contradiction to all the Scriptures as any the damned themselues could deuise For Dauid ledde by the spirit of God sayth exactly of Christes sufferings in the person of Christ I set the Lord alwaies before me he is at my right hand that I shall noâ—… slide Therefore my heart is glad and my tongue reioiceth my flesh also doth rest in hope And the Apostle saith that Iesus for the ioy that was set before him endured the crosse and despised the shame And he that against these expresse Scriptures auoucheth that Christ had no more feeling of any comfort in his paines then the damned haue in theirs I see no cause why the whole Church of Christ should not hold him madde or woorse But you meane no present comfort As if faith hope and grace the assured fauour and promise of God yea personall coniunction with God and his owne certaine knowledge that he should rise againe the third day Lord of the quicke and dead and Sauiour of the whole world did not yeeld him present comfort in the middest of his greatest paine insomuch that the Apostle saith Christ endured the crosse hee meaneth with patience and desâ—…ised the shame thereof So great was the ioy proposed and comfort conceaued euen in the sharpest of his sufferings By present comfort you meane present deliuerance Meane what you will your meaning is lewd and wicked to broche the doctrine of diuels vnder parables and paraphrases of abused wordes and slâ—…e comparisons with the damned For if Christ hâ—…d hope then had he comfort because hope confoundeth not If he had no hope then did he despaire and so must you admit in Christ either consolation which you denâ—…e or desperation for the time which must be ioyned with infidelitie fâ—…r that he could not want hope but by lacke of faith
guided to be done Heere apparantly is the hand of God named and confessed but mediate that is ordering and disposing the Iewes rage and violence according to Gods foresetled counsell Wherein the goodnesse of your iudgement and cause appeareth that when you should prooue any thing you produce places that euidently impugne your purpose With like discretion you cite that which followeth For what if God condemned that is abolished sinne in the flesh of which words I haue spoken enough before doth that imply that God punished Christes Soule or bodie with his immediate hand Small store of proofes you haue for your vpstart doctrine of God tormenting Christes soule with his immediate hand when you turne aside to texts that no way mention any such matter and prate in your pride that the word of God is flat contrarie to me p Defenc. pa. 82. li. 12. Gods owne hand then did smite Christ and inflicted on him whatsoeuer he suffered as the condemnation of sinne Well leapt From Gods hand vsing the Iewes and Gentils as his meanes to doe to Christ whatsoeuer his counsell had determined you step to Gods owne hand excluding all meanes directly against the profession of the Apostles and the whole Church with them and against the tenor of the new Testament which sharpely rebuketh the rage and wickednesse of the Iewes that put Christ to death Were you not caried with the spirit of slumber and giddinesse could you thus loosely conclude so weightie causes not onely without but against the Scriptures q Ibid. li. 16. The punishment ordained for sinne by the iustice of God and inflicted by the hand of God whatsoeuer meane it pleaseth him to vse is called the wrath of God as you acknowledge My words make as much for you as the Apostles did euen now when they expresly contradicted you but such as your cause is such is your conscience you duck and diue you care not where nor whether so you may haue a generall Phrase to beare you aboue water when you are out of breath You set your selfe to prooue that God with his immediate hand afflicted the Soule of Christ and when your proofes faile you you catch vp my words auouching r Conclus pa. 245. li. 31. the punishment ordained for sinne by Gods Iustice or inflicted on vs by Gods hand WHATSOEVER MEANE HE VSâ—… is called the wrath of God Would you hence inferre that because God vseth meanes therefore he vseth no meanes but inflicteth all punishment of sinne with his immediate hand Or because all punishments great and small on vs or on whomsoeuer come from the Souera gne power hand of God therefore God vseth no meanes Or what other absurd conceite would you collect out of my words I speake not here of the Reprobate I speake of all mankinde though you leaue out my words inflicted ON VS of purpose to serue your owne sense Neither do I say it is Gods eternall or spirituall wrath but all afflictions imposed on vs for sinne by what means soeuer are in the Scriptures called the wrath of God as I haue else where shewed albeit they tend not to damnation nor destruction What is this to Gods immediate hand punishing the Soule of Christ Or which way recall you this to the Conquest that Christ had ouer Satan and all his power wherewith you began s Defenc. pag. 82. li â—…8 Then how may we thinke Gods infinite iustice and power punished Christ You must goe by thoughts indeed and neither by warrant nor word of holy Scripture How Christ bare our sinnes in his body on the tree and gaue the same to be t Matth. 26. broken for vs and t 1. Pet. 2. his bloud to be shedde for many for the remission of sinnes we shall need no thoughts nor concerts of yours the description of his sufferings is so particularly and precisely set downe in the Scriptures that no man doubteth thereof besides you that respect moreyour secret sansies then the publike histories of the Euangelists x Defenc. pag. 82. li. 21. In his spirit certainâ—…â—…e suffered spirituall and incomprehensible punishments being no sinnes such as mens soules are subiect vnto as from God Though by no learning you can truely deriue any such thing from the Scriptures touching the tormenting of Christs soule by the immediate hand of God yet your conceit is so strong that you CERTAINLY auouch any thing For in these few words you presume more then you will prooue whiles you liue to make God with his immediate hand to afflict the soule of Christ with the same paines that the damned are tormented and other reason for it you haue none but because all power in heauen earth and hell is from God and called the hand of God By which the Scriptures doe not imply the immediate hand of God but his power working by meanes appointed and established by him In the Scriptures God is euery where proclaimed to be THE LORD OF HOSTES and therefore as there is no power in Angels Diuels Men or other creatures that cometh not from him so they are not idle armies nor lookers on but are indued with power from God as well to protect as to punish where when how and whom they shal be appointed Which the wisdome and power of God hath ordained and setled not to shorten his arme nor to weaken his strength as needing assistants but by constituting Seruants and Ministers vnder him to let men and Angels good and badde continually behold how mightie and wise righteous and glorious he is that wanteth no meanes to execute his will and yet directeth all things by his wisdome Is not God able to preferre and keepe his Saints by his word or his will without aide of others who doubteth it And yet y Psal. 91. He giueth his Angels charge ouer thee to keepe thee in all thy waies And z Psal. 34. the Angell of the Lord pitcheth round about them that feare him and deliuereth them Is he not able also to punish with his own hand to reuenge his enemies without helpe of his creatures Who denieth it that knoweth what belongeth to a God And yet Dauid praied thus against his enimies a Psal. 35. Let them be as chaffe besore thâ—…â—…nd the Angel of the Lord scatter them Let their way be darke slippery the angel of the Lord persecute them And the Psalmist describing the plagues powred out on b Psal. 78. Egypt saith God rest vpon thâ—… the fiercenesse of his anger indignation wrath vexation 〈◊〉 the senâ—…ing in of euill angels amongst them God then in this life vseth men angels to perâ—…orme his iudgements chiefly the diuel is vsed againstsinners as we may see by the Apostles â—…peech and course who deliuered hainous offenders vnto Satan as vnto the publike tormentor appointed by God to execute vengeance wherein though he were to haue power leaue from God yet execution was allotted to him The auncient
that you name for a contradiction to this But the Scriptures are against it That were worth the hearing if you had any in store but if your ignorance be such that you bring the parts of Christs agonie for the causes thereof and your insolence such that you will pronounce what the Scriptures shall say or meane without any farder proofe you may soone make them contrarie to themselues as you doe in the maine matter and merit of our redemption by the death and bloud of 〈◊〉 That Christ in the Garden began to be afraid and said of himselfe he was on euery side sorrowfull and after comfort receaued by an Angell from heauen fell into an agonie of intentiue prayer in which his sweate was like drops of bloud this the Scriptures report What was the direct and particular cause of this feare and sorrow or for what after the vision of an Angell from heauen Christ prayed so earnestly that his sweate was like bloud this is the Question in this place Wherein like some late risen Apostle you take vpon you to decide what best sorteth with your error and proclaime that to be expresse Scripture But where doth the Scripture expresse that Christs feare sorrow and discomfort caused his Agonie If they were parts of his agonie as well as his bloudie sweate then must there be a cause as well of these as of the other and they caused not his bloudie sweate Now the cause of neither is directly mentioned in the Scriptures The Scripture Comfort by an Angell and intentiâ—…e prayer went before Christs bloudie sweate speaketh of Christs prostration and prayer of his triple Petition that the Cup might passe from him of his Disciples heauinesse and neglect to watch with him of their danger and tentation of the weaknesse of flesh as well as of his sorrow or feare Doth it therefore expresse these to be the causes of his agonie and how doth the Gospell declare discomfort to haue caused that agonie because it saith there appeared to him an Angell from heauen 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 strengthning or comforting him the Angell was not able to inspire any spirituall strength into Christ that is proper to the spirit of God neither did the Angell performe the part of an honest neighbour to perswade Christ with words to be content and patient these kinds of strengthning and comforting are not tolerable in this place but by his message from God for he was Gods messenger comming from heauen he declared in all likelihoode that Christs prayers were heard in that he feared For so much the Apostle noteth of Christs prayers in the Garden which in all coherence was the comfort the Angell brought with him when he appeared to him in the Garden Now this comfort would rather asswage his sorrow and feare then increase it Yea how could any comfort brought by the Angel cause this agonie you dreame perhaps Christ would not receaue that comfort but notwithstanding the Angels comfortable message continued his former agonie or fell into a worse then before wherein he sweate bloud If your dreames be expresse Scripture then here is all the Scripture you haue euen your presuming besides the Scripture or rather against the Scripture For since the Euangelist affirmeth t Luke 22. an Angell from heauen that is from God appeared comforting him that is with a comfortable message to him in all reason his feare and sorrow did now cease and he fell vpon this comfort receaued as I thinke not repelled as you imagine to an agonie not of feare and sorrow much lesse of hell paines but of more vehement prayer then before and in that zealous and inflamed prayer in which he powred forth not onely the strength of his Soule but the very spirits of his body for desire to preuaile for man against sinne and satan his sweate was like bloud u Defenc. pag. 107. li 1. The words next before in the text are u Luk. 22. 43. 44. AN ANGEL CAME TO GIVE HIM SOME COMFORT that is lest he should be ouerwhelmed quite in his sorow discomfort but still he was in his agonic and sweat like drops of bloud trickling downe to the ground and presently sayth MY SOVLE IS FVLL OF SORROVVLS EVEN VNTO THE DEATH â— The Tempter in the wildernesse that sought by pretence of Gods power and protection to procure Christes ouerthrow had more regard not to be taken tardy with corrupting the Scriptures than you haue in this place for he cited the words as they lay without addition or interposition of his owne which you do not buttaking some parts of the text for a shew you most vntruly and most pestilently corrupt both the text and the trueth of the Gospell You cite out of S. Luke ca. 22. vers 43 44 these words in a different letter as the words in the text next before Christes bloudie sweat An Angell came to giue him some comfort c. Are these the Euangelists words Was your haste so great or your care so little that you could not or would not so much as looke in your booke for the right words of the text S. Luke sayeth x Luk. 22. v. 43 There appeared vnto him an Angell from heauen 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 strengthening him or comforting him no doubt with a message from God which what it was we do not know except we applie the Apostles words to this purpose where he sayth Christ y Heb 5. v. 7. in the dayes of 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 did offer vp prayers and supplications with strong crying and teares to him that was able to saue him from death AND WAS HEARD IN THAT WHICH HE FEARED This if we take to be the comfort which the Angell brought from heauen the Apostle might well intend it For that Christes prayers were heard and so much declared to him by an Angell from heauen could not be but very comfortable to him If we list not to beleeue this was the Angels message of comfort then we must confesse that the comfort which the Angell brought is vnknowen to man as the certaine cause of Christes bloudie sweat But whatsoeuer we suppose of the Angels message there is some difference betwixt S. Lukes words and those which you cite as the words next before the text not in matter you will say I speake of the words which you may not alter when you professe to cite the text whatsoeuer the matter be You keepe the meaning of the Euangelist you thinke Such a meaning as you your selfe make of the Euangelist for you translate 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 which is strengthening him to giue him some comfort Where by the diminutiue some you would implie that it was not sufficient to remooue his feare and that intent you betray in the next line citing againe your owne words in stead of S. Lukes and apparently corrupting his text for comming to cite the 44 verse 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 and falling into an agonie he prayd more earnestly or intentiuely in stead
the condition of soules thither adiudged and I see no danger in the vse of hades for hell since the Pagans by that word intended the places vnder earth where the wicked after this life were punished A Philosopher will rarely and sometime perhaps note the aire by Tartarus yet vsually and in a manner alwayes they ment hell by it Yet Peter not Canonizing their dreames of hell notwithstanding signifieth hell indeed by that worde of theirs according to the common vse thereof Though the Poets vse not Tartarus as often as they doe Hades for the receite of soules after death yet it is false which you say that in a manner alwayes they ment the dungeon of hell by it It is an vsuall phrase among the Poets for the place where soules were bestowed after death as Hades is Pindarus expressing the inconstancie of mans life saith 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 Thou must goe to the deepe of darke Tartarus by ineuitable necessity Moschus wisheth he might goe thither to heare Bion sing there 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 O if I might goe downe to Tartarus as did Orpheus Vlysses or Hercules Hesiode sheweth how the destenies as soone as any man was wounded or slaine seased on him and sent his soule 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 to cold Tartarus Anacreon giuing a reason why though he be old he is loth to die saith 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 I sigh often fearing Tartarus for the chamber of Hades is grieuous So Theognis and others vse Tartarus for Hades without any distinction betwixt them And where you say Peter signifieth hell indeed by that word you may meete with many that will tell you Saint Peter there calleth the aire about aboue the earth by that name as well as the places vnder the earth and that in respect of the light which the reprobate Angels did before enioy in heauen this world may iustly be called darkenesse Zanchius saith By this name Peter vnderstood not the place onely which is vnder the earth sed imprimis ipsum aerem but chiefly this aire the whole space beneath this moone For in this regioÌ„ are the diuels kept captiues as the Apostle teacheth calling the diuell the Prince of this aire Saint Austin saith as much Let vs not doubt but the sinfull Angels were cast into this aeriall mist about the earth as into a prison according to the Apostles faith kept to be punished in iudgement Aretius Hiperius Beza and others are of the same mind So that this signification of Tartarus was not taken from the heathen as you presume but is a comparison with their former state when they were Angels of light and adorned with brightnesse within and without who now are throwen from their hight and plunged into outward and inward darknesse The very naturall Etymologie of the word according to the Grammar doth properly signifie VNSEENE or not seene any more in this world topos aides an vnseene place as Plato calleth it Where note it cannot bee referred to the estate of Angels but of them that had once a visible and ordinarie being and conuersation heere in this world You hang this geere together with hookes Hades you say is properly not seene any more in this world yet it is tópos áides an vnseene place as Plato calleth it You haue gotten you three starting holes vnder the couert of Hades the place vnseene the person not seene any more in this world the state inuisible but you hide your selfe so vnhandsomely in them that when you thinke your selfe most inuisible all the world may see your open follie Was the place of Hades euer seene in this world I trust not Then Hades is topos aides a place which neuer man liuing saw for a man must bee dead before he can come to that place You graunt the Grammaticall Etymologie of the word Hades is to signifie a place vnseene as Plato calleth it How come you then to applie this to the person or state not seene any more in this world by which you would exclude Angels from being in hades It is euident that the Poets made Hades a person and supplie 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 hadou very often with domous or such like as 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 to the housen of Hades and call him 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 Hades the God with the blacke lockes of haire Was this ruler of the places below which is the diuell euer aliue with vs in this world If he neuer had no visible state in this life and yet is properly and originally called Hades as I haue shewed before then Hades is that which was neuer seene in this world and doth agree as well to Angels for all your noting as to diuels if it import no more but that which is vnseene of vs. But who warranteth this interpretation besides your selfe Let aïdes stand for vnseene how prooue you as you conceiue that it inferreth a state once seene in this world and now by death vnseene I say vnseene applied to hades is neuer seene of any man liuing and not as you wrest it now no longer seene And so your Etymologie maketh nothing for you And what if hades deriued from aïdes signifie that place where nothing can be seene for lacke of light doe you not finely strip your Reader with an vnseene sleite as you thinke but indeed with a sensible deluding of the trueth peruse your masters of the Greeke tongue and tell mee whether theâ—… do not take hades for the place where nothing can be seene by reason of darkenesse Sophocles calleth it 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 blacke Hades Euripides calleih it 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 the house without sunne light Theognis calleth it 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 the blacke gates Homer saith 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 Hades had for his share the darke mist to dwell in Plutarch sayth of Hades 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 hee is darke and master of the blacke night The great and learned Etymologist of the Greeke tongue whom your Lexicons refuse not in most words to follow giueth this exposition 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 áides is that place wherein we see nothing For Hades is an house of darkenesse The place then wherein nothing can bee seene for darkenesse is properly by the masters of the Greeke tongue and by the right Etymologic of the word called Hades and all your expositions and applications be forced and framed to your owne fansies without any iust cause or reason but onely to serue your owne humours The Apostles tooke the word Gehenna from the Hebrewes and vsed it properly for hell Therefore they need not alter hades for that purpose for which they had another proper word Christ speaking to the Iewes vsed the word Gehenna for hell fire which they best vnderstood and Saint Iames writing to the Iewes dispersed saith The tongue is inflamed of Gehenna But the rest of the Apostles that instructed
the wages thereof to be finall depriuation of all grace and glorie and eternall damnation of bodie and soule to hell-fire how can she but quake and tremble at the very cogitation and remembrance of her owne guiltinesse and of the greatnesse of his power and iustnesse of his anger And therefore the godlie presently fall vpon the consideration hereof to condemne and detest all their sinnes and with broken and contrite harts to lament their vnrighteousnesse and to afflict their spirits with earnest and inward sorrow till by faith and repentance they find comfort in the mercies of God through Christ Iesus For want of which the wicked often in this life and speciallie at the houre of death sincke vnder the burden of their sinnes and plunged into the depth of desperation are possessed with an horrible fright and terror of the torments prepared for them in another world they feeling here on earth in their soules the remorse of sinne and sting of conscience but not able to rise vnto true repentance and hope of saluation by reason of their continuall contempt of grace whiles it was offered them which then is taken from them After this life appeare the terrible iudgements of God against sinne which the wicked so much feare and the faithful so much shun the speciall maner and meanes whereof as farre as the Scriptures deliuer them I will deferre till I come to the particular handling of them though I haue often proposed them and in part proued them but whether the words of the Scripture expressing them be allegories that is figuratiue shadowes or plaine speeches that question is not yet debated which I reserue till I haue ended the immediate suffering of the soule as this Discourser calleth it Of these sixe meanes besides the immediate hand of God to inflict paine on the soule for the punishment of sinne it pleaseth you Sir Discourser to skip foure and the other two in effect to denie Affections you say are neither punishments nor corrections at all properly in themselues and suffering by sympathie from and with the bodie is common as you auouch to vs with beasts and is no proper humane suffering because in your iudgement your first kinde of suffering from the immediate hand of God alone is the proper humane suffering which for that cause your selfe call the soules proper and immediate suffering But what if in all this you speake not one true word what if the affections that be euill be properlie punishments of sinne what if the soules suffering from and with the bodie be the true and proper humane suffering what if God vse not his immediate hand in tormenting soules but hauing ordained and appointed meanes by his wisedome and power committeth sinfull soules to be punished by those instruments and meanes which he with his hand hath prepared and in his word expressed Do you not shew your selfe a deepe Diuine that prooue points of faith by open falsities and heape vp errours by the dozens binding them with your bare word and obtruding them to the world as oracles lately slipt from heauen but go to the parts and first to the affections which you affirme are no punishments whether they be good or euill The affections of the soule that be good as the loue of God the zeale of his glorie and hope of his mercie and trueth are the speciall gifts and graces of Gods spirit and so farre from paining the soule that they breed exceeding comfort and ioy in the Holieghost The affections that are eâ—…ill are not onely the rage and reward of sinne but inflict as great anguish as may be felt in this life Concupiscence which is the root and nurse of all euill affections in vs be they sensitiue or intellectiue what is it but the inordinate and intemperate desire and loue of our owne willes and pleasures despising and hating whatsoeuer resisteth or hindereth our deuices or delights yea though it be the will and hand of God himselfe this corruption of the soule by sinne which is now naturall in vs all whence came it but from and for the punishment of the first mans sinne what is it but the verie poison of sinne and whether tendeth it but to withstand and refuse all grace that men reiecting God and reiected of God may runne headlong to the finall and eternall vengeance of their sinne It is no small punishment of sinne for men to be left to the desires of their owne hearts and to be giuen ouer to vile affections which the Apostle calleth the reward of their error and euen the fulnesse of all vnrighteousnesse which make men the seruants of sinne whiles they wait on lusts and diuers pleasures which fight against the soule by leading it captiue vnto the law of sinne which is in the members And if you doubt whether they paine the soule or no looke but on their names or their effects and you shall soone be out of doubt Anger disdaine despaire dislike detestation feare sorrow ragâ—… furie for earthly things can these be so much as conceiued or named without euident impression or mention of paine yea the fairest of our affections and those which at first flarter vs most as loue desire and pleasure I speake still of euill and vnlawfull do they not quicklie faile sowerlie leaue and sharplie vexe with their remembrance and repentance the greatest seekers and owners of them In all these worldlie desires and delights S. Austens rule is generallie true Quod sine illiciente amore non habuit sine vrente dolore non perdet He that kept them not without alluring loue loseth them with afflicting griefe As for the intellectiue passions of the soule which are the trembling at Gods wrath the feare of his power and despaire of his fauour besides the shame of sinne griefe of heart and horror of hell what torments they breed in the condemned consciences of the wicked the godly may partly iudge by that which they sometimes taste notwithstanding their present recourse to the mercies and promises of God in Christ. So that euill affections aswell intellectiue as sensitiue be punishments of sinne and painfull to the soule howsoeuer your cogitations Sir Discourser be otherwise humored Concerning the soules suffering from and with the bodie which you say is common to vs with beasts if the soule do not consider for what cause at whose hand and to what end she suffereth as also how she may be freed and what thanks is due to her deliuerer she may be well likened to the Horse and Mule in whom is no vnderstanding but the brutish dulnesse of some earthly minded men doth not make this kind of suffering not to be properly humane which God from the beginning did and doth vse to all his seruants and saints his owne sonne not excepted and whereby God worketh in all his children correction probation perfection preparation to glorie which are things most proper to men and no way communicable vnto beasts God
haue reuealed it yet that is no iust cause to doubt the trueth thereof or to preiudice the power of God who hath spoken the word as if he could not or would not performe it but rather for certaine to know and confesse that God can punish the mightiest of his Angels by the weakest of his creatures and as in sinning they haue exalted themselues by pride farre aboue their degree so in punishing them for their sinne God can and will depresse them as farre beneath their originall condition to teach them that all their strength depended on his will and pleasure So that we haue no neede to runne to the immediate hande of God alone to make him the sole tormentor of spirits as this Discourser doeth for extracting a new Quintessence of hell fire the will and word of God as it gaue to men and Angels all their power and force so may it take the same from them swelling against him when he will and subiect them to the force of any his creatures which he can endue with might to performe his commandement against all the transgressours and despisers of his righteousnesse and holinesse In summe we see that Christ suffered no part of that which the Scriptures make substantiall and essentiall to the paines of hell and damnation of the wicked I meane of that which is included in the sentence of the Iudge pronounced against them but this Discourser as he hath deuised a new kind of redemption neuer mentioned in the Scriptures nor deriued from the blood of Christ so hath he framed vs another hell then the word of God reuealeth and changed the whole course of the sacred Scriptures with his dreames and deuises that though the text of holy writ doe no way fauour his sansies yet by flying to allegories and heaping vp a number of metaphores he might entertaine some talke when his proofes did faile To vphold that Christ suffered the true paines of hell before we could be redeemed by his death bloodshed he minced hell paines into substance and accidence and least this geare should seeme grosse he shadowed the substance of hell fire with figures and allegories and sent vs at last to the immediate hand of God for all punishment of sinne in the life to come not vpon any iust ground or proofe out of Scripture but because his Mastership knew not otherwise how to carrie his conceites cleanly he vnloaded them all by tropes and metaphores vpon Gods immediate hand from which onely as he saith though very vntruely the Soule hath her proper and principall suffering But examining the parts we find no such metaphysicall substance of hell as he pretendeth no such metaphoricall fire as he affirmeth no such immediate hand of God vexing Soules and deuils in hell as he imagineth we rather find the cleane contrarie to wit his circumstances to be of the substance of the Iudgement pronounced vpon the wicked the fire in hell to be a true and substantiall fire and by that as by a peculiar meanes decreed by the will strengthened by the power and reuealed by the word of God the damned both soules and diuels to be perpetually punished and tormented each of them according to their demerits though the inward powers and faculties of the minde shall not cease most grieuously also to afflict the damned and despayring spirits And touching Christs sufferings to which all this must be referred and for which all this is discussed we finde him most free from darkenesâ—… destruction confusion remorse of sinne from malediction dereaction and desperation with their consequents and from the torment of hell â—…ire either in soule or bodie which is the second death that is in deede from all the parts of damnation noted in the Scriptures to be prouided for the reprobate which are the true paines oâ—… hell and so this deuisers dreames to bee as farre from trueth as they are from all testimonies of holy Scripture which mention no such things suffered by Christ nor make any of them needefull for Christ to suffer before he might pay the price of our redemption We doe not contend to expresse what iust measure of Gods wrath nor precisely in what manner it was reuealed and executed on Christ. Onely we knowe that whatsoeuer it were Gods very wrath and proper vengeance for sinnes though outwardly executed on the bodie yet it could not but sinke in deeper euen into the depth of the soule aâ—…d be discerned by Christ and conceaued to be such and so sustained as proceeding from God and so wound the Soule properly yea chiefly though the anguish thereof bruised his bodie ioyntly also You haue labored Sir Discourser in twentie pages of your Defence by many lame distinctions and false positions to shew vs the MANNER MEASVRE of Christs suffering the paines of hell for the sin of man The manner you made to be Christs suffering them properly yea onely in his very soule from the immediat hand of God euen as the damned do The measure you tooke to be all Gods proper wrath and vengeance for sinne yea the selfe same paines for their nature which are in hell and which are extreamest and sharpest in hell Your twelfth page told vs in plaine words These paines then in this very manner inflicted Christ felt indeede not being in the locall hell yet those being the selfe same paines for their nature which are in hell yea which are SHARPEST in hell And he discerned and receaued them properly yea ONLY in his very soule You beginne now to tell vs another tale that you doc not contend to expresse what iust measure of Gods wrath nor precisely in what manner it was reuealed and executed on Christ. Onely you know that what soeuer it was Gods very wrath and proper vengeance for sinnes though outwardly executed on the bodie could not but sinke in deeper and so wound the soule properly yea chiefly By a long processe you made vs beleeue the soules proper and immediat suffering must be from the hand of God alone without inferiour meanes and instruments and not from the bodie because that kind of suffering is common to vs with beastes and maketh not properly to our redemption And so by your refined diuinitie the stripes wounds blood and death of Christ could not properly pertaine to the price of our redemption by reason those sufferings which come by the body were common to Christ with beasts Thus reuerently and religiously to prooue your selfe a pure Christian you resolued touching the bloodshed and death of Christ sustained on the Crosse. Now as almost tyred with that blasphemous toy and perceiuing how hard it would be to please the learned with this leauen or to seduce the simple with these vnsauerie shifts which haue neither foundation nor mention in the sacred Scriptures you beginne to turne an other leafe and to tell vs you doe not contend for the iust measure nor precise maner of Christs suffering the wrath of God Only you know
by an Angell wherein his sweat ran from him lâ—…ke drops of blood is not yet agreed on nor any way confirmed by you But note any of these sixe causes which I conceiued might induce our Sauiour to this sorrow or sweat and see whether they haue not direct reference to his passion and a full coherence ech with other Howbeit you reserâ—…e that for a fitter place and so do I. Why then doe I seeme to refuse them as none of mine by saying I shewed not mine owne opinion but the iudgements of the Fathers Nay why seeme you so void of all vnderstanding that you apprehend not so much as vsuall English MY doctrine is not MINE sayth our Sauiour but his that sent me will you hence conclude a manifest contradiction in Christ because he sayth mine is not mine but his that sent me In possessions that is mine which is wholly mine and no mans els and in opinions that is properly mine whereof I am the first inuenter and author howbeit by a larger extension of the word that is mine also wherein I communicate with others though it be not properly or only mine Out of this distinction of proper common knowen to the very children in Grammar schooles our Sauiour sayth most truly My doctrine that is the doctrine which I preach and in that respect is mine is not mine is not only mine nor of my deuising but his that sent me This were enough to warrant my words and yet my speech is somewhat plainer for I added not MINE OVVNE opinion but the iudgements of the Fathers Now mine owne is that which is properly mine and wherein no man partaketh with me and although you might stumble at Mine yet MINE OVVNE would put you out of doubt So that here as elswhere you bewray the sharpnesse of your quarrelling humor but if neither you nor your friends could spie any greater faults than these absurd and ignorant cauils the Reader will scant trust you hereafter when you talke of my contrarieties and inconstancies But how doth this excuse the foulenesse of your mouth in reiecting the Fathers iudgements with irreuerent and disdainfull termes which was the thing I then reproued in you If the opinions were onely theirs and not mine would you the rather reuile them as fond and absurd because they were wholly theirs and no way mine The Fathers you say I call not so Such I meant and tooke for absurd gatherers as commonly â—…le regard the sound doctrine of the Fathers but onely admire their faults whome here I noted by the name of our Contraries Are you so set on shifting and shufling that you can not forbeare seuen lines but you must needs contradict your selfe and that so grosly that euery Carter may controle you In the seuenteenth line of your three and thirtieth page you tell me I am in the best opinion when I denie these to be mine opinions and being charged that insolently you called those iudgements of the Fathers fond and absurd you answer that these your words are purposely meant of those in these dayes that delight to vaunt of the Fathers and chiefly in their errors Your vnciuill and vnseemely liueries of fond and absurd opinions and senses must needs belong either to the Fathers that vttered them or to me that cited them To catch me in a kind of contradiction as you thought your selfe acquit me from holding them For I denie them you say and râ—…fuse them as none of mine On whom then light your fond and absurd speeches but on the Fathers that first conceiued and first deliuered those opinions and senses which you so much dâ—…ke and reproch You meant it not of the Fathers You flutter in vaine to free your selfe from that lime-twig against your plaine speech no man will admit your secret meaning cleane contrary to your words You say indeed I know our contraries do fansie other senses of this Text My God my God why hast thou forsaken me but the senses of that text alledged out of the Fathers word for word the places of the Authors named when you come after your proud and peremptorie maner to examine and censure you say to that which was produced out of Ierome and Chrysostome which sense is most absurd and this is too fond to be spoken To the sense noted out of Athanasius Austen and Leo your answer is this is no lesse absurd than the former there is no cause nor likelihood in the world for it So when the testimonies of Ambrose Austen Ierom and Bede were produced that the reiection of the Iewes might be some cause of Christes sorrow in the Garden you grosly mistake their words as if they had expounded Christes complaint on the crosse and pertly reioyne this is more fond and absurd than the other there is no sense nor reason in it How thinke you Sir speake you of the men or of the matter when you say this sense is most absurd this is too fond to be spoken Could you wrench your words from the matter to the reporter which you can not what gaine you by that If to alledge these opinions of Fathers be so fond and absurd as you say though I refuse them as you aâ—…ch I did what was it in the Fathers themselues to profesâ—…e and publish those most fond and absurd senses as you call them to all ages and Churches but meere and inexcusable madnesse But tie your tongue shorter lest men thinke you mad thus to raue at eueriething be it neuer so learned or aduised that rangeth not with your erroneous fansie They haue spoken wisely and grauely and your kicking and winâ—…ing at their religious and sober expositions with such scornfull phrases may discouer your coltish conceits it can neuer decreaâ—…e or craze their credits I cast a needlesse rebuke vpon you for confounding the causes of the agonie and the complaint together Though all your exceptions to the Fathers expositions of that text My God my God why hast thou forsaken me be most friuolous and foolish yet none is more babish than when you mistake the reiection of the Iewes which I shewed out of Ambrose Ierom Austen and Bede might be some cause of Christes sorrow after his last supper to be the meaning of his complaint on the Crosse and would needs in a flaunt affirme that ME in those words of Christ why hast thou forsaken me doth not signifie my whole Nation which of my certaine knowledge neuer came into my head nor euer out of my mouth For I tooke care to wade no further in expounding them than the Scriptures and Fathers went before me and howsoeuer his sorrow for them might happily not cease before his death yet there was no cause why hauing formerly prayed his Father to forgiue them that knew not what they did he should now call the rest of the perfidious and obstinate Iewes by the name of himselfe If you stand to vphold this ouersight you shew
the hole that you would faine hide your selfe in To that intent which I set downe my reasons drawen from the Iewish sacrifices and Christians sacraments did and doe still stand effectuall For the olde sacrifices must figure and the new Sacraments must seale whatsoeuer death in Christ was the full and perfect ransome of our sinnes But they foreshew and confirme the bodily death of Christ onely they neither shew not signifie the death of the soule nor the death of the damned Therefore the bodily death of Christ onely is the full and perfect ransome of our sinnes the death of the soule and the death of the damned as they serued nothing to our Redemption so were they not suffered in the soule of Christ. Two cauils you offer against the first part of this reason touching the sacrifices of the fathers before and vnder the law One that they figured not the whole sacrifice as neither Christes Deitie his soule nor his resurrection the next that all the sacrifices of the Iewes did not signifie his bodily death because the Scape goate which was a sinne offering was not slaine Of trifling you talke much this is more then trifling it is plaine shifting Christes deitie could be no part of that sacrifice which suffered for sinne the diuine Maiestie can not suffer either paine or sorrow To what ende then come you in with Christes Godhead when you talke of his suffering for sinne His soule you say was not figured by those sacrifices The suffering death in his soule was indeed no way figured by them but that the mediatour should haue an humane soule to bee separated from his body by death before hee could make purgation of our sinnes that was more then figured by those sacrifices For since not the blood of beasts but of man and euen of the Sonne of God made man was by Gods promise to be shed for our sinnes It is euident that from life to death he could not come but by seuering his soule from his body And consequently he must haue a soule being a man which must be powred out vnto death before he could die euen as the powers of life in bloody sacrifices were parted from their flesh before they could be offered as sacrifices vnto God But I charge you vntruely when I say you expound your whole and absolute Redemption to be of all the fruites and causes of our Redemption you haue no such word nor meaning as fruites Your words are our whole and absolute Redemption and those I say containe the whole course of our saluation euen vnto the last step which is our glorification as I haue formerly prooued by Christes owne speech Againe if the resurrection of Christ which is your owne instance bee a part of that propitiatorie sacrifice because it was a necessarie consequent then all the benefites that Christ obtained for vs or bestowed on vs must be comprised in that his oblation for sinne For they are all necessarie consequents and effects of our Redemption and depend on these two branches his death to free vs from sinne and his resurrection to raise vs into a new and heauenly life now for euer He was deliuered to death for our sinnes and rose againe for our iustification From these two heads the Scriptures deriue not onely forgiuenes of sinnes but newnesse of life on earth and happinesse of life in heauen Yet you did not call them fruits Effects you called them and what is a ioyfull effect such as was Christs resurrection but a fruit and that as well in Christ as in vs When the Prophet saith of Christ he shall see the trauaile of his soule and be satisfied what meaneth he but the fruits and effects of Christs labour when for his obedience to death God highly exalted him and gaue him a name aboue euery name that euery knee should bow vnto him what is this but a fruite and reward of his humiliation first in his owne person then proportionably in all that be his Many of the Iewes sacrifices yea most of them did represent and signifie Christs bodily sufferings onely yet not all Therefore you may well deny mine assumption as you did before and affirme that certaine Iewish Sacrifices set forth the sufferings euen of the soule of Christ and not of his body only Did I any where say that all the Iewish sacrifices were bloudy or that all of them did represent Christs death and blood shedding Could I be ignorant that the Iewes had oblations made onely by fier as of flower wine and incense and also offerings of the first fruits and other things dedicated or presented to the Lord for the vse of his tabernacle and Temple Doth not the Apostle say Euery high Priest is ordayned for men to offer GIFTES and SACRIFICES for sinne Where gifts shew that things without life were offered as well as liuing beasts and birds which were slaine As then there was no cause nor neede I should so I neuer vsed the word ALL in that case vnlesse I added liuing or BLOODY Sacrifices For they by their life lost and blood shed figured the death of Christ Iesus But this ALL is your adding to my wordes that you may take occasion to pike some quarrell at them But you may well deny my assumption that no sacrifices of the Iewes did figure the sufferings of Christs soule I assumed no such thing neither did I meddle with the sufferings of Christs soule vnlesse they were the death of the soule or the paines of hell which the Scripture calleth the second death and I the death of the damned because none besides the damned die that second death but you plainly giue me the slip and conuey your selfe from speaking of the death of the soule or of the death of the damned which are the things in Question to the sufferings of the soule in generall of which I make no Question And though your meaning be vnder the sufferings of the soule to comprise the tormenting of Christs soule by the immediate hand of God with the selfe same paines which the damned do feele in hell Yet such is your cariage that euery where you suppresse your maine intent and make a faire shew with the sufferings of Christs soule as if you ment no more but that Christs soule must needs haue some sufferings proper to it selfe which you confesse I sundry times teach and yet you make your Reader beleeue I euer impugne You shall doe well to awake out of this slumber and call to minde that there are no sufferings of Christs soule now in question but the DEATH of the SOVLE or of the DAMNED which you dare not openly auouch and therefore you plaster them ouer with smoother termes of the sufferings of the soule to hide your secret mysteries till you meete with itching eares that will listen more to fansies then to faith Another peece of skill you shew in this place to ease your selfe of all proofe and thinke it enough if
that iudgeth Iustly But if it be Ambitiâ—… to let the Reader see that I follow the steps of so learned and approoued Teachers what is it for you being I trust no more then a Man to deuise a new Saluation a new Redemption which neither Scriptures nor Fathers either professed or published howbeit if these three Fathers whom you name and meane to cite make any way for your nâ—…w found fansies they shall content me also so you doe not peece out their Texts with your vntruths for then you alleage not them but your selfe vnder their shadowes The first who is Cyprian saith Christ sustained and suffered him selfe to bee called sinne and a curse by Moses and the Apostle because he had the like punishment as we should haue had bâ—…t not the like fault Cyprians words we haue already once heard and once answered there the Reader shal find them more at large they make nothing for you but rather against you For first it is euident by Cyprians sentence that Christ was callâ—…d sinne and a curse by Moses and the Apostle not for any guilt or fault deriued from vs but onely by reason of the likenesse of punishment with those that were sinners and accursed Then was not Christ defiled or sinfull by sustaining our person oâ—… cause for so much as he had no likenesse nor communion with our sinne but only with our punishment Now the punishment which Christ suffered could not defile him but rather commend his obedience patience and charitie towards God and man But he had the like punishment as we should haue had Likenesse as well consisteth in the part as in the whole and if it were but like then was it not the same except you haue forgotten as well the rules of reason as of trueth Nullum simile est idâ—…m Nothing is like to it selfe If then it were like it was not the same What get yoâ—… now by Cyprians words or what doe I loose by them Your slight answere that it was like in part not in all saluâ—…th not the matter It pleaseth not your affection but it fully remooueth your obiection and the trueth of it is most manifest For if Christs punishment were in all points like as we should haue had for our sinnes you know well enough by this tâ—…e how lewd and false that Assertion is which you would sow vnto Cyprian And therefore as likenes in part iâ—… suâ—…cient to verifie Cyprians words so doth it iustifie his speech to be sober and sound which you would haue to be â—…ous and impious Cyprian meaneth Christs punishment was so like ours as waâ—… possible We talke of Cyprians words which are extant not of his meaning which you know not and would faâ—…ne force to be like to yours This is a poore reply when you can say nothing out of Cyprians words against mine exposition of them for which I yeeld so iust ground to flie to your owne imagination of Cyprians meaning which yet is false and foolish For it was possible if we respect nothing but possibilitie omitting Gods Counsell and Decree for Christ to haue suffered longer time and other sorts of bodily paines as fire fleaing and such like at the Iewes hands so that your possibilitie was no part of Cyprians meaning but a waterish deuice of your own to frame Cyprians words to your fansie Alâ—… by this your weâ—…ke answere you are contrary to your selfe in that you acknowlâ—…dge God vsed Christ as he doth sinners Well you may deuoutly dreame of Contrarieties but your eyes dasle too much to see them truely Doth euery Aduerbe of Similitude with you make a full and perfect Resemblance in all points I send yoâ—… saith Christ as sheepe among Wâ—…lues Will you put hornes and haire vpon Christs Disciples to make them as sheepe The Sunne saith Dauid commeth foorth as a Bridâ—…groome out of his Chamber and reioyceth as a mighâ—…e Man to runne his Course Will you build a Chamber for the Sunne and allow him two feete and ten toes that he may leape and runne his race like a man As new borne babes saith Peter dâ—…ire thâ—… sincere mâ—…ke of the word Will you bring men backe to their Cradles swadling cloâ—…ts and the teats of their Mothers that you may verifie this similâ—…tude in them There can nothing be more senselesse absurd and false then to require euery Similitude or Comparison to be full and perâ—…ct in all points Throughout the Scriptures any one thing that is common to many or any resemblance of that which an other hath â—…rueth to frame thence a Comparison or similitude So that any one punâ—…shment inflicted on Christ which Gods Law threatneth to sinners was suffâ—…cient to make good my words thâ—…t God vsed Christ as he doth sinners How then doe you conclude from my speech that Christ was vsed in all things as sinners are both here and in hell or that God laid on him punishment so lâ—…ke to that which we should haue had as was possible Tâ—…e it is though not by any force of my words alleaged by you that God by his secrâ—…te oâ—…dinance lâ—…id on his Sonne not onely the common Infirmities of mans Nature and miseries of mans life but also shame reproch paine and death which are by his Law reseâ—…ued and threatned to sinners but touching the death of the Soule or true paines of hell which all this while you fish for you finde nothing in my words nor in any of these Fathers whose names you abuse Athanasius saith Ipseper se sententiam soluit sâ—…b specie condemnati He himselfe satisfied and 〈◊〉 the sentence of the Law vnder the appearance of a DAMNâ—…D MAN Did not God then vse him as he doth sinners in all extremitie of punishment so far as was possible You doe wisely not to be 〈◊〉 in producing multitudes of Men. as you call them for you doe but shame your selfe and sincke your cause when you coâ—…e to shew the grounds of your Doctrine by the testâ—…monies of ancient Fathers As they say nothing for you so you vnderstand nothing in them no not the coherence or force of thâ—…ir words or sentences It is no small matter that here you vndertake out of Athanasius to prooue in Christ the appearance of a DAâ—…D MAN which by and by you interpret to be all extremitie of punishment vsed by God to sinners so farre as was possible the paines of the damned not excepted I would gladly aske you whether you purpose to cite places as you find them to seeke out the truth or only professe to picke out heere and there a word to make you availe to hide your head for shame You maruell what I meane I will soone tell you You alleage but fower words out of Athanasius besides Prepositions and Pronouns and in them you commit fiue notable faults and three of them grosse wilfull and wicked corruptions Sententiam you call the sentence of the Law Where Athanasius expresly noteth the sentence
which God gaue against Adam for eating of the forbidden fruit Soluit you interpret he satisfied where the word is he loosed or dissolued it 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 you translate vnder the appearance Athanasius meaning the substance of mans soule and bodie which he calleth the fourme of man 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 you render of a Damned man applying it to Christ for some countenance to your cause in laying the paines of the damned on the soule of Christ where Athanasius speaketh that word of Adam that was condemned for sinne in whose substance or forme Christ appeared that is a true man to dissolue the sentence giuen against Adam when he was first condemned And that which is most intolerable where Athanasius in the same sentence the verie next words expresly addeth that Christ was altogether vntouched either with condemnation or with sinne to shew that he ment Adam in the former word of condemnation you purposely skippe and neglect that which should lead you to the trueth of his speech and directly against his plaine and manifest words you referre Damnation to Christ as if in spite of Athanasius though he earnestly and openly professe the contrary you would wrest his words to dishonour and belie Christ and make the Reader beleeue that some before you had ascribed damnation vnto Christ. But be ashamed of these monstrous falsifications if you haue any shame in you or if not your Reader will soone perceaue what cause it is you haue in hand that must be vpheld with such hatefull forgeries Athanasius doctrine is very sound and good though you will not acknowledge it that Christ in his owne person taking our humane nature vnto him dissolued the sentence that he gaue against Adam when he condemned him for transgressing and by his bodie dead and laid in the graue he freed our bodies from the power of corruption and with his soule descending into hell he quited our soules from all the right and power that hell had ouer vs by sinne This whiles Athanasius mindeth to expresse he saith He that examined Adams disobedience and gaue iudgement comprised a double punishment in his sentence saying to the earthly part earth thou art and to earth thoushalt returne and to the soule thou shalt die the death and thereupon man is deuided in twaine and condemned to goe vnto two places to wit his bodie to the graue and his soule to hell It was therefore needfull that the pronouncer of that sentence should himselfe by himselfe dissolue his owne sentence 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 appearing in the forme or substance of him that was condemned but yet without either condemnation or sinne that the freedome of the whole man might be wrought by man in the newnesse of the image of the Sonne of God I shall not need to prooue that 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 is the substantiall forme as well of God as of man the Apostle applieth it to both and Athanasius in this verie place saith 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 The fourme of his owne soule vnsubiected to the bands of death Christ sent present before them and so againe Christ deliuering vs 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 in his owne perfect and true formâ—… or substance answerable to ours This could you not chuse but see if either you perused Athanasius himselfe or the verie page 181. of my conclusion which you cite and whence you tooke this authoritie where it is euident by the full wordes of Athanasius in the same sentence that Christ was cleere from sinne and vncondemned and that man was the person condemned for sinne which you could not misse without infinite negligence or inexcusable blindnesse Austen we saw a little before We saw his name as now we doe but we sawe no words of his that any way made to your purpose He saith Accursed is all sinne whether it be the deed deseruing or the punishment deserued which is called sinne because it commeth by or from sinne And likewise that Christ receaued our punishment without sinne that thereby he might dissolue our sinne and end our punishment Truely accursed is sinne and the punishment inflicted on the ofâ—…ender for sinne abiding without remission or repentance otherwise punishment after sinne remitted as in the godly or without desert of sinne as in Christ is not a true curse separating from God not from the true blessings of God which make vs certainly and euerlastingly happie but it is a curse depriuing vs of externall and corporall blessings which God of his bountie first bestowed on the life of man and often recalleth for triall of obedience and chastising of disobedience as also for preuenting occasions of sinne and auoiding of greater vengeance if we should be suffered to walke secure and carelesse in the waies of our hearts Christ then receaued a curse for vs which in him was the chastisement or punishment of our sinne yet as he no way deserued it so was it not destruction which lighteth on the wicked for their wilfull persisting in sinne but a proofe of his obedience and a full satisfaction for our offences respecting his person that suffered it who was God and Man and is by Saint Austen called our Punishment as well for the cause which was wholy ours as for the likenesse it had with the punishments prouided for vs in this life where Christ suffered and not in hel where Christ could not suffer It is no euill in it selfe to be punished but to deserue punishment And so Basil. The true euill is sinne whose end is destruction that which seemeth euill with afflicting or greeuing the sense hath the force of good in it Your former sense that Christ was a sacrifice for sinne how differeth it from your second that he was punished for our sinnes With you it may be a question with me it is none For though they were both ioined in Christes sufferings yet that is no reason to take away their difference In the sacrifice which Christ ofâ—…ered vnto God for the sinnes of the world himselfe was the Priest and the Offerer and by his willing obedience submitting himselfe to his Fathers will made a recompence for our sinne which we could not doe In his Martyrdome he was a patient sufferer of that which the Iewes with cruell and wicked rage wrongfully laid on him when he was deliuered by Gods determinate counsell into their hands Now betweene his patient suffering from men and willing offering to God there is some difference if you could see it though they were both coupled in his death they both prooue directly and necessarily that he must be indeed sinnefull by imputation The one prooueth that he bare our sinnes in his bodie on the tree but by no meanes that he was guiltie of them the other sheweth that he clensed our sinnes and so was no way defiled with them How could he be truely punished for sinne by God but that he was sinnefull by imputation Because he
neuer waded any farder vnlesse in one or two new writers that fit your fansie It doth approue likewise and appoint Erasmus Paâ—…aphrase to lâ—…e openly in the Church for euery man that doubteth of any thing in the nâ—…we Testament to reade for his instruction and yet you will not take euery word in Erasmus Paraphrase for the publike Doctrine of the Church of England For so you should â—…oone exclude the most of your new conceits But what saith the Catechisme that Christ was bound to suffer for vs or did endure the same damnation which we dâ—…serued It sayth that Christ was our Suretie The Catechisme goeth not so farre but sayth God dealt cum Christo quasi sponsore with Christ as it were with a Suretie Christ then did voluntarily assume some similitude but not the strict and exact condition of a Suretie euen by the tenor of the words which you cite though you guilefully translate them as if Christ had beene our Suretie It is one thing to hold Christ was our Suretie and ioyntly bound with vs by law to pay our debts which is your errour and another thing to say Christ was as it were a Suretie or did of his owne accord discharge our debts for vs. The Catechisme in this very section precisely noteth that he was not bound as Sureties be but of his owne will suffered for vs the cruell and wicked rage of the Iewes in putting him to death Haec quidem illi in eum crudeliter malitiose atâ—… impiè perpetrarant verum ipâ—…e sua sâ—…onte ac volens haec omnia perpeâ—…s atâ—… perfunctus est These things before described the Iewes did cruelly malitioâ—…ly and impiouâ—… against him but he OF HIS OVVNE ACCORD and good will not bound suffered all these things And before he commeth to your words he sayth but it iâ—… not vnusuall amongst men that one should vndertake and suffer for another By which he doth not meane that by right or law one man may be bound to suffer or die for another but by liking or loue men are sometimes thereto led Otherwise the law both of God man is directly against all such suffering Sancimus ibiesse poenaÌ„ 〈◊〉 est Peccata suos teneant authores nec vlterius progrediatur metus quam reperiaâ—…r delicium We appoint say the Emperours Arcadius and Honorius that punishment shall be there where the fault is Let offences binde their committers and let no feare of punishment extend farther than to such as be guiltie of the crime Gods law doth ratifie the same The wickednesse of the wicked shall be vpon himselfe The sonne shall not beare the 〈◊〉 of the father neither shall the father beare the iniquitie of the sonne but the same soule that sinneth shall die Wherefore the Catechisme if he vnderstood what he said as I truely thinke he right-well did could not deriue Christes bodily sufferings from any band or Suertiship allowed amongst men by Law but onely from Christes loue and will which is aboue all law by which indeed he humbled and emptied himselfe to the death of the crosse for our sakes when there was neither law nor band to compell him to it Also Cyprians words are plaine and can not beare any other sense than I make of them that Christ was a verie Suretie for his people and suffered such a forsaking of God touching sense of paine and want of present feeling of comfort in his paines as the damned doe I did well to say you neither vnderstood nor liked the meaning of Cyprian for where there is nothing in Cyprians words that bolstereth your error you haue made such a construction of them or rather such a contradiction to them that few men besides you could deuise the like For by them you bring the person of the Sonne of God in his humane nature that was alwayes full of grace and trueth To haue no MORE SENSE NOR COMFORT OF GOD for the time THAN THE DAMNED HAVE From which pâ—…stilent position though you kisse your hand in it I wish all the godly to blesse themselues But let vs first see on which words of Cyprian you graffe this golden fruit and then how true it is and agreâ—…able to the faith Your foundation â—…s because Cyprian sayth of Christ Thou diddest shew anxietates illius querimoniae verba esse dilâ—…ctorum tuorum quorum personam causam assumpseras the pensiuenesse of that complaint My God my God why hast thou forsaken me to be the words of thy beloued whose person and cause thou hadst assumed What is this to your purpose or how doth this patronize your violent and wicked assertion The dolors of Christs complaint on the Crosse that he was forsaken were the words of his beloued that is Christ spake those words in the name and behalfe of his Elect that they were forsaken of God not of his owne person as Austen saith of the same That was the voice of Christes members not of the head And Leo Sub redemptorum suorum voce clamabat Christ cried those words vnder the voice of his Redeemed Now this being Cypâ—…ans plaine speech that those were the words of his Elect finding themselues for their sinnes worthie to be forsaken of God how come you to turne Christ into his beloued that is the head into the members and his beloued into the damned and then to conclude of Christ that he had no more sense nor comfort of God in his paines than the damned haue Such another leape will easily bring you and your followers from faith to infidelity and if you take not heed the sooner from the number of the Elect to the rancke of the Reprobate which take so light occasion to draw Christ into the same desperation for the time with the damned Cypriâ—…ns words you say can not beare any other sense It is not enough for you shamefully to peruert Cyprians words but you must proudly proclaime in print that they can haue none other sense than you list to like of when his speech expresly doth import the contrarie If you had auouched so much of Christes words we would desire no better interpreter then Cyprian who saith those were the wordes of Christs beloued and so that forsaking had no direct application to Christes person but a mercifull relation to his members who might often inwardly feele that they were forsaken of Gods fauor and assistance for the time though not as the damned are MEE you thinke in Christes words must signifie his person and not his members But Cyprian is expresly opposite to you in that point and saith MEE there is as much as MY BELOVED or chosen members And for this exposition Cyprian hath the manifest precedence of the sacred Scriptures in which Christ often speaketh of his members as of himselfe by the verie same words Saul Saul why persecutest thou mee that is my members whom I loue and esteeme as my selfe and this is no cauilling euasion the Iudge at the last
might and did punish properly Christes soule also and yet neuer deuide his Godhead nor his loue from it The one standeth with Gods iustice and with the nature of man in Christ as well as the other A wanton colt when he winceth with his heeles thinketh he can batter walles and beate downe trees with a blow when yet the skittish thing doth but hurt it selfe Is this the reason which weakened all that I said in so manie sides against the death of the soule for of that I speake in all those pages which you quote Neede you a paire of spectacles so see the difference betweene the death of the soule and the death of the bodie that you so falsely idlely and foolishly match them together A verie drone would soone discerne that the death of the bodie innocently obediently and patiently suffered could no way separate Christ from the fauour and loue of God nor hinder the worke of our redemption though it depriued hiâ—… of life sense and motion in the bodie for the time which are the good blessings of God when they are vsed to his glorie and yet the death of the soule which leaueth neither action affection nor communion of grace trueth or faith in the soule seuereth both Soule and body quite from God and maketh them hatefull vnto God and altogether vnapt to reconcile others vnto God when they themselues are disioyned and parted from God And therefore notwithstanding your Crakes that you can blow mountaines afore you with your breath and your craft that shift the death of the Soule whereof I speake in all those places into a proper spirituall punishment of your owne framing you haue not auoyded any one Reason there nor offer so much as to come toward the matter in question but roue after your wonted manner with generall phrases proper to your selfe and then thinke that no man seeth you there are other punishments in the Soule besides death but none that can reconcile vs vnto God For b Rom 5. We were reconciled to God by the death of his Sonne c 1. Cor. 15. I declare vnto you saith Paul the Gospell which I preached vnto you and whereby you are saued For first of all I deliuered vnto you that Christ died for our sinnes according to the Scriptures Then you and whosoeuer else that preach or beleeue Remission of sinnes by any thing else but by the death of Christ you preach not the Gospell which the Apostle deliuered neither can you looke for saluation in Christ that leaue the maine ground thereof which is the death that he tasted for all and through which he destroyed him that had the power of death euen the diuell So that to step to any other spirituall punishments for the satisfaction of our sinnes and reconciliation to God then to that which the Scriptures call the death of Christ and the death of the Crosse is to renounce all that God hath ordained or reuealed for our Saluation and to create you new Sauiours after your owne conceits You must therefore be directly and plainly brought to this point whether Christ suffered for vs the death of the Soule by the Scriptures and not such giggers of proper punishments nor straines of improper speeches as you and your friends hunt after but fairely and fully according to the direction of the sacred Scriptures which must be heard and preferred before all your fansies as well touching the death of the soule as the trueth of our redemption by the bloud of Christ Iesus Wherein though I exclude not the sense and affections of his soule which felt the paine knew the cause and beheld the counsell of God in all those sufferings vndertaken for man through the tender loue that he bare to man yet none of those feares sorrowes nor paines which the soule discerned and receiued did any whit diminish the power of Gods spirit and grace in him nor the perfection of his faith hope and loue whereby the soule cleaued fast to God without any separation and consequently the innocence obedience and patience of Christes soule in his sufferings both outward and inward did confirme and manifest the life of his soule But of this more in due place d Defenc. paâ—… 90. li. 27. Then you addresse your selfe against another euen one of the chiefest reasons of mine which I make from the strange and incomparable agonies of Christ in the time of his passion You make no reasons from Christes agonie but assuming that for a shew which you do not vnderstand you inferre what you list by your rash presumptuous and manifest contradictions both to your selfe and to the Scriptures e Ibid. li. 30. These inuaded him as we reade principally at three times First in the foretaste of his passion Ioh. 12. secondly in the Garden a little before his apprehension thirdly in his very extreame passion it selfe on the crosse The Scripture mentioneth one agonie and you multiplie that to three In the twelfth of Iohn when some of the Grecians that came to worship on the feast of Easter were desirous to see Christ of whom they had heard much and made their desire knowen to Philip and he to Andrew and they both to Iesus Iesus answered them f Iohn 12. The houre was come euen at hand that the Sonne of man should be glorified by his death This therefore was not a time to shew himselfe when his heart or soule was troubled with other matters euen with the meditation and preparation of his death Now except you be so wise that you will make euery affection in Christ an agonie there is no cause to conceiue this to be an agonie He often times thought and spake of his death before where no man besides you doth dreame of agonies and this verie word is in other cases ascribed aswell to Christ as to others where no colour of an agonie doth appeare When he tolde his Disciples that one of them should betray him g Iohn 13. 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 he was troubled in spirit and meaning to raise Lazarus from death when he saw Mary the sister of Lazarus and the Iewes that were with her to weepe h Iohn 11. he groned in spirit and troubled himselfe insomuch that he wept which yet was no agonie but a touch of humane compassion shewing the loue he bare vnto them The complaint on the crosse besides the words had no shew of an agonie and what sense they beare we shall after examine Verily he that would not suffer his owne Disciples to beholde his agonie in the Garden would neuer in the eyes or eares of his enemies with his owne deeds or words verifie their reproches and taunts against himselfe as if he were forsaken of God which was the thing they vpbraided him with And therfore you may deuise not three but threescore agonies if you will The Scripture expresseth one and that you neither rightly conceiue nor rightly vse i Defenc. pag. 90. li. 35. To all that
place which thinketh that Paul led with a feruent This exposition may not simply be receiued loue and zeale to haue the Iewes partakers of Christ did not remember or respect either the Counsell or Iustice of God to be immutable which yet are but brake forth into a vehement affection as desiring to exchange his eternall damnation for their Saluation These leaue out all manner of Conditions not because there were not many and must be many before the wish can be religious and pleasing to God but for that the Apostle wholy defixed on his care for the Iewes did not in that Passion consider the rest But by their leaues that are the leaders to this exposition well this may be conceaued of some short and suddaine motion rising from mans infirmitie but this can neuer be imagined of the Apostle aduisedly and iudicially writing to the Romans and weighing all his words with the wisedome of Gods spirit which if they take from the Apostle in that part of this Epistle where he calleth Christ and the holy Ghost to witnesse that he speaketh the truth I see not why they may not derogate all Authoritie from the rest of his writings when after so great deliberation and vehement protestation they make him forget the chiefest grounds of Christian Religion earnestly vrged by himselfe in the selfe same Epistle and euen in the next wordes before written in the later ende of the eight Chapter It is therefore a dangerous position to say the Apostle was amazed or astonished in his writings or so caried away with his affections that he knew not what he wrote in those Scriptures which are Canonicall For it openeth a gap to all impieties and heresies to thinke that Paul led with Christs spirit did not remember nor respect that Gods eternall election could not be changed nor the chosen vessels of Christ be euerlastingly condemned for the loue and zeale which they bare to Christ nor any man or Angell admitted to be the Redeemer and deliuerer of the Reprobate from the iust and deserued wrath of God prouided for them All which pestilent errors are consequent to this supposition that the Apostles speech was absolutely without condition and must be graunted to be possible before his desire or wish could simply take place It is therefore resolued euen by them who first deuised this exposition that Pauls wish in this place was wholy impossible as well in respect of God who would not change his eternall counsels and decrees as of the Apostle who being a chosen vessell could not perish and likewise of the Iewes whose deserued destruction so often denounced by our Sauiour as where he said h Matth. 21. The kingdome of God shall be taken from you and to Ierusalem i Luke 19. They shall not leaue in thee a stone vpon a stone because thou knewest not the day of thy visitation and many such threats could not be auerted Only this Defender to shew his discretion out of these darke places which admit many senses collecteth that to be possible which by the verdict of the holy Scriptures and of all Interpreters new and old is auouched to be simply impossible and thence he maketh his notable obseruations which indeede are nothing else but grosse and palpable errors k Defenc. pag. 96. li. 25. From thence I obserue foure notable points First That if God omnipotent and onely soueraigne Lord will he may inflict damnation and the paines of hell vpon meere men not for themselues but for others nor for their owne sinnes but for the imputed sinnes of other men much rather then might he doe this to Christ whom God sent indeede and ordained for that purpose Flatly contrarie to your Assertion To make your Obseruation Note the nearer to the patterne which you follow you must say that God if he will may inflict eternall damnation for temporall damnation to hell the Scripture knoweth none on his elect so were Moses and Paul for their loue to Christ and their Foure notable errors falsely grounded on the facts of Moses Paul whereof 〈◊〉 the first bretheren for that was the cause of their wish And then you haue made a worthy Corollarie that indeede contrarieth my Assertion and not mine onely but also the expresse words of the holy Ghost the maine grounds of the Christian Faith and the resolution of all writers first and last that haue spoken of these places To Moses Petition Gods answere was that he would not wipe an Innocent out of his booke but l Exod. 32. verse 33. Whosoeuer hath sinned against me said God I will put him out of my booke So that God himselfe did not onely refuse Moses Prayer in that part but declared it to be repugnant to his Iustice to condemne the guiltlesse with the guiltie The Apostle the next words before these by which you would make it possible that he might perish for others professed that m Rom. 8. v. 38. neither death nor life nor Angels nor things present nor things to come nor heigth nor deapth nor any other creature was able to separate him from the loue of God in Christ. And therefore generally demandeth n Ibid. v. 35. Who shall separate vs from the loue of Christ No creature is able as he exactly auoucheth and as for the Creator o Verse 33. It is God that iustifieth and therefore cannot be contrarie to himselfe p Verse 34. who shall condemne where God in Christ doth acquite God you thinke may change his mind His eternall counsell decreed reuealed and assured in Christ God neither will correct because he is wise and before all worlds foresaw all that might mooue him to the contrarie neither can alter because he is truth and so can neither repent nor change as men doe The q Rom. 11. Gifts and calling of God are without repentance r 2. Tim. 2. The foundation of God standeth sure and hath this seale the Lord knoweth who are his s Iames. 1. With him is no varying nor turning And therefore our Sauiour excepteth it as a thing not possible that the elect should perish when he saith that false Prophets and great wonders in the later daies should deceaue t Matth. 24. If that were possible the very Elect. By his power you will say God may doe it though he will not Gods power was most absolute ouer all creatures to dispose them at his pleasure before he determined and setled his will in Christ Iesus what to doe with them since which the holy Ghost teacheth vs in plaine words it is impossible that God should lie hauing made his promise to all his elect in Christ and bound it with an Othe not because he is become weaker then he was but because he hath fastned his counsell and reuealed his truth in his Sonne which he neither will nor can change not for want of power but because of his truth which is constant and immutable u Heb. 6.
the time though it were after restored with greater glory This I did not put for the cause of his agonie as you idlely amplifie but noted it as a respect that might worthily lead Christ to dislike or abhorre death in respect of his perfection and communion with God aboue all men and Angels saue for the will of his father and the good of man which ouerruled this dislike in him g Defenc pag. 105 li 22. You say excellent well but by your practise in all matters so farre as I see you neuer meane to obserue it in Gods cause let Gods booke teach vs what to beleeue and what to professe shew me then where you read in Gods word any or all these to be effectuall causes of this strange 〈◊〉 or 〈◊〉 my part I shall neuer beleeue you If I did professe to bind mens faiths to these causes of Christes agonie as you doe to your new redemption by the paines of the damned I would shew you where I redde them in the word of God or els I would leaue â—…ch beleeuer to his libertie but I forwarned all men that the Scriptures directly and particularly speaking nothing of the causes of Christes agonie the safest rule that I could find or they could follow was not to depart from any knowen and receaued grounds of Religion and principles of pietie for the causes thereof For since the Scriptures keep silence and our Sauiour himselfe would not shew it to all his Disciples but chose three from the rest to goe with him and tooke the darke time of the night and left those three whose eies were so heauie that they could not forâ—…eare sleepe about a stones cast before he would pray because he would not haue thâ—…m 〈◊〉 to all that he said or did in that place I see no reason why any man should be ouer curious in searching that which the word of God hath not precisely reuealed specially seeing no demonstratiue cause can be giuen of secret affections and voluntarie actions such as these were in Christ. And your audacious and presumptuous boldnesse is the more chalengeable for that you not onely take vpon you to giue the right and exact cause therof out of your owne braine but you light on such a cause as hath no foundation in any part of the Scripture nor any coherence with the maine positions of the Christian faith vnfalliblely deliuered in the word of God Wherfore I haue not transgressed my directions when I teach what iust and waighty respects of feare sorow zeale our Lord Sauior had in the worke of our redemption which might be the causes of that earnest prayer agonie and withall shewed the iudgements and opinions of diuers ancient and learned Fathers concerning the same but you as insolent in your conclusions as in your conceits take vpon you to specifie the full and true cause thereof for which you haue no shew of Scriptures nor touch of reason And such is the cause which you yeeld that thereby you crosse the chiefe streames of faith and trueth most currant in the sacred Scriptures and with all learned and religious antiquitie The same rule then binding you which bindeth me shew you what Prophet Euangelist or Apostle euer taught or thought the paines of the damned to be inflicted on Christes soule in the Garden by Gods immediate hand and that without the paines of hell we could not be 〈◊〉 or els my not beleeuing you will not excuse your enterprise you must answere to God and to all the faithfull for innouating the very roots and branches of their redemption by the bloud and death of Christ Iesus which you auouch to be vnsufficient for the ransome of our sinnes except your hell be thereto added when the Holy Ghost who should best know the trueth being the spirit of trueth hath expressed no such thing in all the Scriptures h Defenc pag. 105. li. 32. Your sixt and last maine cause is that Christ by this his bloudie sweate and 〈◊〉 praiers did nothing but voluntarily performe that bloudie offering and Priesthood 〈◊〉 in the Law This we simply grant If you should truely repeat and conceiue any part The 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 agonie of my writings you should put your selfe to more paines than you are willing to take iustly to refute it Wherefore your course is either to misrecite or to misconstrue all that you bring In the oblations of the Law which prefigured the death of Christ I obserued that not only the Sacrifice was slaine by the shedding of bloud but that the person of the Priest was sanctified as well as the sinner presented by the Priest to God with earnest and humble prayer to make atonement for the trespasse And since the trueth must haue some resemblance with the figure Christ might in the Garden performe some points requisite to his Priesthood as the sanctifying of himselfe with his owne bloud and presenting his bodie to be the redemption and remission of our sinnes with most instant and intentiue prayer for the transgressours This if you simply graunt as in wordes you say you doe tell vs now which way you will conclude Christes suffering of hell paines in the Garden from his bloudie sweat It hindereth not our assertion Much lesse doeth it further it but yet if there might be a cause of Christes voluntarie sprinckling himselfe with his owne bloud and dedicating it to Gods pleasure for mans redemption besides and without your hellish torments you will come shorter than you recken to make good your conclusion i Defenc. pag. 106. The Scriptures which you cite prooue indeed that Christ now executed his office of Priesthood but will you diuide and exempt his death on the Crosse from his Priesthood Who besides your selfe restraineth Christes euerlasting Priesthood either to the garden or to the crosse But it was one thing for Christ with feruent and submissiue prayer to present and submit his bodie which was his Sacrifice to the will of his Father as he did in the garden and another thing to receiue and admit the violent and wicked hands of the Iewes executing their rage on his bodie with all reproch and crueltie as he did on the crosse Now what had his Priesthood to do with the paines of hell since he was to present and performe the bloudie sacrifice of his bodie prefigured in the Law which he did in the garden and on the crosse And forsomuch as you grant that Christes bloudy sweat and his vehement prayers in the garden were pertinents to his Priesthood prefigured in the Law which indeed is k Hebr. 5. confirmed by the Apostle as you can shew no figure of suffering hell paines or the second death in the sacrifices of the Law no more doth either of these performed in the garden concerne any secret death of the soule which Christ there suffered from the immediate hand of God l Defenc. pag. 106. li. 14. Why say you not aswell that his death
for saken of God whose cause to reconcile them 〈◊〉 then vndertookest and as a most skillfull Patron for seruants thou didest not disdaine to take the person of a seruant and SO FARRE thou didst compassionate the weake that thou wast neither afraid nor ashamed to be crucified and to dy leauing for a time thine owne higth and emptying the maiesty of thy glory that the dispersed might returne and the forsaken might take breath or comfort The forsaking which Cyprian here describeth in Christ consisteth in leauing of his diuine power and glory for a time and in abasing himselfe SO FARRE as to dy the death of the Crosse for their sakes but no farder And these wordes he saith Christ would haue vnderstoode to be a cause of their Reconciliation to God who had deserued for their sinnes to be forsaken of God and therefore he addeth presently f 〈◊〉 I consider thee Lord on that crosse where thou seemedst without helpe or forsaken how with an Emperiall power thou didst send the theefe before to thy kingdome by assuming of whom it is manifest how much thou hadst preuailed for those that were forsaken You would faine so wrest Cyprians wordes that he should say Christ vndertooke our cause and no more but he withall affirmeth that Christ tooke vpon him our person and that his carefull complaint were the wordes of his beloued If the wordes were spoken as well in our person as in our cause then we were indeed forsaken and Christ by laying downe his glorie for a time and obeying his fathers will did by those wordes declare that he reconciled vs to God when we were forsaken and in signe thereof with full power made the theefe partaker of his kingdome that had deserued and was condemned to die the death of a for lorne and forsaken malefactour g Defenc. pag. 109. li. 2. If you thincke they ment that Christ spake this by some strange metonimy naming himselfe but meaning his Church that can haue no good sense I shall not need to tell you The first sense of 〈◊〉 complaint on the Crosse. what I thinke let them speake themselues what they ment and when you haue heard their meaning out of their owne wordes you shall see how much you abused Cyprian to make him speake that he neuerment It is plaine enough which Athanasius saith h Athanaâ—…ius de incarnatione Christi Christ spake those wordes in our person for he was neuer forsaken of God and Austen is as euident i August epist. 120. why disdaine we to heare the voice of the body by the mouth of the head to me that is to my body my church and my litle ones So was it said why hast thou forsaken me euen as it was said he that receaueth you receaueth me No doubt we were in those wordes and the head did speake for his body And likewise Leo k Leo Serm. 16. de Pâ—…ss Dom. Christ spake those wordes in the voice of his Redeemed Neither are they alone in this opinion Theodoret satith l Theodoret. iâ—… Psalm 21. because Christ was the head of mans nature he speaketh for the whole nature of man So Bede m 〈◊〉 a in Psal. 21. Quare dereliquistime idestmeos ideo scilicet quia longè te fecerunt peccata esse à salute mea id est meorum Hec verbaplane innuunt caput non in persona sua hic loqui Quomodo enim derelictus vellonge à salute factus posset esse ille Why hast thou forsaken me that is mine because sinne did put thee farre from sauing me that is mine These words do plainly prooue that the head doth not here speake in his owne person For how could he possiblely be forsaken or remooued from saluation And Euthymius n 〈◊〉 in Psal. 21. The Lord taketh vnto him the person of mans nature as lincked to him and saith why hast thou forsaken me now a man that is the whole nature of man And Damascene o 〈◊〉 Orthodoxe fidei li. 3. ca. 24. Christ was neuer forsaken of his owne Godhead but we were those that were forsaken and despised Wherefore appropriating our person he praied in that sort And expressing what it is to appropriate or assume an others person he saith As when a man doth put on an others person of piety or charitic and in his steed vseth speach for him 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 which agreeth not vnto himselfe If then we take dereliction for the want of Gods fauour spirit and grace as these Fathers doe it is euident Christ could not so be forsaken and consequently these wordes in that sense which is proper to the Children of Gods wrath could not agree to the person of Christ though it were true in his members that they by nature were forsaken and destitute of grace till he reconciled them to God and diffused his spirite into their harts to make them partakeâ—…s of his holinesse And as for the strangenesse of the metonimy count you that strange which Christ vseth in one Chapter more then thirty times and find you no strangenesse in your conceits which are no where throughout the Scriptures either expressed or so much as coherent with the continuall speach and plaine rules of the Scriptures p Defenc. pag. 109. li. 5. That can haue no good sense For how can it be that we were forsaken of God when Christ was on the Crosse Nay euen then and there we were purchased vnto God not forsaken by God Doth any man vse when he would make reasons for his opinion to refuâ—…e himselfe as you doe we were purchased you say on the Crosse vnto God you must adde by the bloud of his sonne which was also God for that Saint Paul in the plâ—…ce which you cite nameth as the true and right price of this purchase God purchased his Church with his owne bloud and not by the direfull paines of hell as your braine hath lately broched Now if we were purchased on the Crosse then till we were purchased we were enstranged from God and so forsaken of him And what hindreth this complaint or prayer of Christs to beare witnesse that we were now reconciled and purchased vnto God which before were forsaken and separated from God For those words doe not imply that we still continued forsaken but that formerly without Christ we were vtterly forsaken and now by him restored to fauour And the goodnesse of this sense I doe not thinke but any man of meane capacitie will soone conceaue and iudge it more fruitfull for vs to know that by Christs mediation and oblation on the crosse we are now no longer strangers vnto God nor forsaken of him as before we were for our sinnes then that Christ suffered the direfull and infernall paines and death of the damned in his Soule before we could be freed from our sinnes For of the first there can be no question and of the second you neither haue nor euer shall be able to bring one
towards a trueth but this is cleane kam to that you said before Your former speach was these paines doe alwayes accompanie the wicked and now you turne the cake in the pan as if that side were not burnt and tell vs they are alwayes wicked whom those paines doe accompanie ordinarily Forsooth this is not How handsomly the defender shifteth hands that you said before and if you be ashamed of your follie and falsehood I am not against repentance But it were plaine dealing to confesse the fault and not to bring in an ape for an owle and say it is the same Creature And yet forsooth whether this position be true or not is without the compasse of your skill For first what is ordinarie with you once a weeke once a moneth or once in seuen yeeres you haue gotten a word that you may winde at your will and limite as you like best and yet without all proofe you resolue that these paines doe ordinarily accompanie the wicked experience I trust you will take none vpon you for then by your owne rule you must be alwayes wicked to sift other mens souls what paines they feele though they be wicked I win you haue no way but by report or conâ—…ecture which are both vncertaine Warrant in the word you haue none that such paines doe alwayes or ordinarily accompany the wicked the contrarie may rather be thence collected For when the wicked shall say q 1. Thess. 5. Peace and safetie then shall suddaine destruction come vpon them Peace and safetie in the paines of hell I suppose they haue nor cause nor will to say In Peace then safety not in the pains of the damned are many if not most of the wicked till destruction come vpon them which is not alwaies nor ordinary since they can be destroyed but once and vntill that time their ease and abundance make them forget God r Defenc. pag. 141. li. 18. Againe you pretend to haue much against me where I say the feeling of the sorrwes of Gods wrath due to sinne in a broken and contrite heart is indeede the onely true and perfectly accepted sacrifie to God True so I said and againe I say it What see you annsse in it Then vnhappie men are the godlâ—…e say you which are at any time free from the paines of the damned to what purpose is this I speake of Christs sacrifice Thus your triumphs before the victorie come to nothing but blasts of vanitie If I mistooke your meaning you are the more beholding to me the sense which you now expresse is worse then that I charged you with and yet I tooke your words as they lay which because they were namely applied neither to Christ nor to vs by you I pressed you with the lesser absurditie of the twaine Why your words might not be referred to the faithfull I saw no cause Dauid confessing that the s Psal. 51. v. 17. sacrifices of God he meaneth esteemed and required of God are a troubled spirit and a contrite and broken heart causeth the sacrifice of righteousnesse to be accepted I strained your words no farder then Dauids but sayd you miâ—…construed the wordes of the holy Ghost if you tooke a broken and contrite heart repenting his former sinnes for the paines of hell suffered in the soule You now say you ment this of Christ that his broken and contrite heart feeling the most vehement paines of the damned was the onely true and perfectly accepted sacrifice to God and aske me what I see amisse in this I will soone tell you Where I would haue charged you with a single error against the Godly by reason your wordes are indistinct and doubtfull you loade your selfe with a double iniurie against God and his Sonne For first the sacrifice of Christes bodie by which we are sanctified as saith the Apostle is excluded from being a true and perfectly accepted sacrifice if the paines of hell in his soule be onely the true sacrifice Secondly a false sacrifice deuised by your selfe and neuer offered by Christ is obtruded by you vnto God as the onely true sacrifice which he must perfectly accept and so where before you blazed an vntrueth you be now come to bolster it vp with impietie For where no Scripture doth witnesse that Christ suffered any such sorrowes and paines of hell as you surmise you now openly professe that all sorrowes and sacrifices besides this were neither true nor acceptable vnto God and that this your deuice surpasâ—…eth all the merits and obedience of Christ whatsoeuer t Defenc. pag. 141. li. 30. Where Austen seemeth to denie that Christes soule might die he denieth that Christ suffered any paines of damation locally in hell after his death as it seemeth some held about his time whom heere he laboureth to confute If your ignorance were not euery where patent some man perhaps would stumble at your report but you are growen to such a trade of outfacing that almost you can doe nothing else That any such opinion was held in Austens time as you talke of and that he laboured there to confute the same is a maske of your making to hide your owne blemishes Austen refelleth that as a fable in exact words when he saith Quis audeat dicere who dare say so Now if some had so held he must haue said some doe say so but who dare say so is as much as no man dareth say so If no man durst so to say then no man was so wicked or irreligious in Austens time as to dare say that Christs soule died which now is become the greatest pillar of your pater noster As for suffering in hell locally it is a fiction of yours fastened to S. Austen he hath no such words and therefore no such meaning u Defenc. pag 141. li. 37. He had no necessary cause â—…o speake of the second sense thereof how the soule may be sayd to suffer death extraordinarily for sinne imputed onely neither doth he speake against that in Christ. S. Austen a man would thinke had cause to know how we wâ—…re râ—…d by Christ and surely if he were ignorant thereof you would not iudge him worthy to be a Curate in your Conuenticles but shew that he who taught so much and wrote so much as his works declare euer spake word of your new-found redemption by the paines of hell suffered in the soule of Christ or by the second death Against it he often speaketh when he so soundly and sincerely collecteth out of the Scriptures that Christ died for vs the death of the body onely and not the death of the soule And this how could it be a true or tolerable assertion if the Scriptures did auouch or the church in his time had professed the death of Christs soule to be the chiefest part of our redemption for sinne and reconciliation to God Wherefore neuer dreame he had no necessarie cause to speake of your sense if your sense had beene a part
man of any learning or vnderstanding thus in print and open view of the whole Realme to rage revell rush on with lying craking and facing when he speaketh not one true word for first Sir flincher is this the point heere or any where proposed by me whether Christs sufferings were only bodily did I promise or produce any Fathers to that end is it not the death of the soule and the paines of the damned which I impugned in Christs sufferings haue I not most truely performed which I euer professed that the whole Church of Christ for so many hundred yeeres neuer thought neuer heard of the death of Christs soule in the worke of our redemption but rested their faith on the death of Christs body as a most sufficient price both for the soules and bodies of the faithfull What cunning then is this first to shift your hands of that you can no way prooue though you still doe and must professe it and then to clamour at me for drawing the Fathers cleane from their intent and meaning is this the way to credit your new Creed by such deuices and stratagemes to intertaine the people of God least they should see how farre you be slid from the ancient primatiue Church of Christ take a while but the thought of a sober man and this pangue will soone be ouerpast Did you not vndertake to prooue the death of Christs soule by Scriptures which indeed I first and most required and haue you so donne looke backe to your miserable mistakings and palpable peruertings of the words of the holy Ghost and tell vs what one syllable you haue brought sounding that way are your secrets such that they be no where reuealed in the word of God must all faith come from thence and is your faith exempted that it shall haue no foundation there are men and Angels accursed that preach any other Gospell then was deliuered and written by Christs Apostles and shall you be excused for deuising a new kind of redemption by the death of Christs soule no where witnessed in the Scriptures you see how easie it were to be eloquent against you in a iust and true cause but words must not winne the field What I impugned my sermons will shew what I haue prooued I will not proclaime If I haue failed in that I endeuoured the labour is mine the liberty is the Readers to iudge Let the indifferent read it they shall find somewhat to direct them let the contentious skanne it they shall see somewhat to harle their hast and perhaps to restraine their stifnesse What euer it be I leaue it to others since the discourser hasteth towards an end and so doe I. s Defenc. pag. 146. li. 2 This is the profit that comes by ordinarie flaunting with Fathers which many do frequent in these dayes Thinke they if the Scriptures alone suffice not for things in religion that the Fathers will suffice or if the Scriptures may be wrested by subtle heads that yet the Fathers can not Is it not enough for your selfe to be a despiser of all antiquitie and sobrietie but you must insult at them that beare more regard to either than you do If to flaunt with Fathers be so great a fault which yet respecteth their iudgements that haue beene liked and allowed from age to age in the Church of Christ what is it to fliske with pride and follie grounded on nothing but on selfe-loue and singularitie It were to be wished that euen some of the best writers of our age as they thinke themselues had had more respect to the auncient Fathers then they shew we should haue wanted a number of nouelties in the Church of God which now wee are troubled withall as well in Doctrine as in discipline This course of concurring with the lights of Gods Church before our time in matters of faith though you mislike other manner of men then you are or euer will be haue allowed and followed as u August contra Iâ—…num li. 1. Augustine x Theodor. diol 2. 3. Theodorete y Leo epist. 97. 〈◊〉 Leonem Leo z Cassi. de incarnat Domini li. 7 ca. 5. Cassianus a Gelas. de duabus in Christo natâ—…ris Gelasius b Vigilius li. 5. cap. 6. Vigilius and the two c Hispalensi concilium 2. ca. 13. councels of Hispalis and others not doubting the sufficiencie of the Scriptures but shewing the correspondencie of beleeuing and interpreting the Scriptures in all ages to haue bene the same which they imbraced and vrged And in all euennesse of reason were it better to feede the people with our priuate conceits pretended out of Scripture or to let such as be of iudgement vnderstand that we frame no faith but such as in the best times hath bene collected and receiued from the grounds of holy Scripture by the wisest and greatest men in the Church of God your only example turning and winding the words of the holy Ghost to your owne conceits will shew how needfull it is not to permit euery prater to raigne ouer the Scriptures with figures and phrases at his pleasure and thence to fetch what faith he list If you so much reuerence the Scriptures as you report which were to be wished you would why deuise you doctrine not expressed in the Scriptures Why teach you that touching mans redemption which is no where written in the word of God Indeed the Scriptures are plaine in this point of all others what death Christ died for vs if you did not peruert them against the histories of the Euangelists and testimonies of the Apostles Omit the description of his death so farely witnessed by the foure Euangelists what exacter words can we haue then the Apostles that Christ d Coloss. 1. pacisied things in earth and things in heauen by the bloud of his crosse and reconciled vs which were strangers and enemies in the bodie of his flesh through death Beleeue what you reade and what you reade not in the word of God beleeue not and this matter is ended but by Synecdoches without cause you put to the Scriptures not what you read in them but what you like best and by Metaphores and Metonimies you will take bodie for substance and flesh for soule And so where the Apostle auoucheth that we were reconciled to God through death in the bodie of Christs flesh you tell vs we could not be redeemed without the death of Christs soule and the essence of the paines of the damned suffered by suddaine touches from the immediate hand of God after an extraordinarie manner If you teach no doctrine but deliuered in the Scriptures aband on these deuices not expressed in the Scriptures If you content your selfe with the all sufficient word of God in matters of faith you must relinquish the death of Christs soule and paines of the damned as no part of our redemption since there is no such thing contained in the word of God To me and
vpon the expectation of Christs comming and differreth the crowne of glory 〈◊〉 that time let vs be content with the boundes which God hath appointed vs that the soules of the godly hauing ended their warfare of this life depart into an happy rest where with a blessed ioy they looke for the fruition of the promised glory and so all things stand suspended till Christ our redeemer appeare Then none of these writers old nor new so conceaued or so expounded Christes wordes as you doe that all his Saints doe locally accompany him and generally wheresoeuer he abideth or whithersoeuer he goeth The Fathers all with one voice I may truely affirme teach and beleeue euen that Christ after death went no whither but where his faithfull and holy seruants were yea and there remained till his resurrection To which consent of men some where you ascribe exceeding much Your assertions all the Fathers with one consent refuse to which agreement of learned and auncient writers I confesse I yeeld very much when there is no expresse Scripture against it alleaged and vrged by some of themselues as in all the cases where I forsake them there is but what is that to your nouelties who neither in the first nor second question yeeld any thing to their iudgements and censures put them altogether That the soules of the faithfull before the comming of Christ were in Abrahams bosome our Sauiour first deliuered and no father that I know departeth from it but where Abrahams bosome was whether in earth or elsewhere and whether it were a skirt of hell or no till Christ transferred them thence to Paradise of this some fathers diuersely thinke and diuersely speake And but that Saint Austin learnedly discusseth and resolueth this point that Abrahams bosome could be no member nor part of hell since this was a secret habitation of rest and happinesse which the Scripture neuer affirmeth of hell but calleth it a place of torment it would be hard for you or any of your crue to say where Abrahams bosome was That Christ after death went to the place where the faithfull were in expectation and desire of his comming to redeeine the world the Fathers affirme but that he went no whither else or that hec went not to the place of the damned as well to discharge and release his members thence that is from all feare and daunger thereof as to destroy the power of the diuell ouer all his and to triumph ouer the force and furie of Satan in his owne person that euery knee of things vnder the earth should bow to him as well as of things in heauen and earth in this you vtterly mistake the consent of the Fathers which you so much talke of and shew that you neuer came neere the reading of them howsoeuer you presume to affirme what you list of them And least I should carie the Reader without cause to rest on my word as you would haue him doe on yours he shall heare the Fathers speake their owne mindes and so the better iudge of your abusing them Ireneus Dauid said prophesying this of Christ thou hast deliuered my soule from the nethermost hell Cyprian When in Christs presence hell was broken open captiuitie made captiue his conquering soule being presented to his fathers sight returned without delay to his bodie Lactantius or as some thinke Venantius o The darkenesse fled at the brightnesse of Christ the grosse mist of eternall night vanished Hinc tumuluÌ„ repetens post tariâ—…ra carne resumpta belliger ad coelos ampla trophea refers Then after thy being in hell thou going to thy graue resuming thy bodie as a warrier thou barâ—…st to heauen a 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 CONQVEST ouer hell Athanasius 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 who euer went to hell besides the sonne which rose from the dead at the sight of whom 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 the keepers of hell gates shrâ—…ncke for feare Yea HADES HELL or the Diuell at the sight of him 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 was afraid and amazed saying Who is this that descendeth hither with so great power and authoritie Who is this that teareth open the brazen gates of hell breaketh the bars of Adamant Who is this that being crucisied is not conquered by me who am death Who is this that looseth their bandes whom I conquered Who is this that by his owne death destroyeth me that am death Eusebius To him only were the gates of death opened him only the keepers of hell gates seeing shranke for feare and the chiefe ruler of death the diuell knowing him alone to be his Lord rose out of his loftie throne and spake to him fearefully with supplication intreatie Eusebius called Emisenus The Lord descending darkenesse trembled at the suddaine sight of vnknowen light Aâ—… praefulgidum fidus caeloruÌ„ Tartareae caliginis profunda viderunt And the deepes of hellish darkenesse saw the most bright starre of heauen Deposito quidâ—… corpore imas atque abdit as Tartari sedes filius hominis penetrauit the Sonne of man laying aside his body pearced the lowest and secret seates of Tartarus or of the dungeon of hell Hilarie The powers of heauen doe incessantly glorifie the Sonne of God sor conquering death breaking the gates of hell In hell he killed death Gregorie Nazianzene Going to the gates of hell all couered with darknesse thou shalt pearce hell with a sharpe speare and shalt deliuer all thou alone being free and shalt besides haue the victory ouer thine enemies 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 valiantly SVBDVING HELL the SERPENT and DEATH Chryâ—…ostome Descendente in tenebrosam inferoruÌ„ caligineÌ„ Domino ettam illic tunâ—… 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 dubio dies splendidissimus fuit vbi seruator illuxit tenuit in illo noctis horrore inuiolabilem Maiestatis suae splendorem The Lord descending into the darke mâ—…st of hell euen there no doubt then was a most cleere day where our Sauiour shined In that horror of night he held the brightnesse of his Maiestie inuiolable Ierom. Pro vita populi mortuus non es derelictus in Tartaro Dying for the life of thy people thou wast not left in hell And againe Christ dâ—…stroyed and brake open the closed places of hell and put the diuell that had power ouer death from his kingdome and Dominion Augustine If the holy Scripture had sayd that Christ after death came to Abrahams bosome not naming hell and the sorrowes thereof I maruaile if any man would haue durst to affirme that Christ descended into hell But because euident testimonies of the Scripture mention hell and the sorowes thereof no cause is occurrent why our Sauior should be beleeued to haue come thither but to saue from those paines And againe There is a lower hell â—…hither the dead go whence God would deliuer our soules by sending his sonne thither For therefore Christ came euen
you to expresse it rightly But you varie so often and say nothing in the end that your hearers can hardly sound the bottome of your Hades That God hath no handes as we haue this euery meane Christian doth or should know Since then this similitude is taken from men and with them it is not strange to put those on their right hand whom they will honour and aduance it is easie for the simple to learne that Christes sitting at the right hand of God is as much as his sitting in glorie and Maiesty with God which though they cannot presently perceiue how great it is yet may they readily coÌ„ceaue what the meaning thereof is In your descending to Hades it is nothing so Your inconstancy and varietie in expounding that phrase is a proofe what difficultie there is in it and your predicament of twelue parts at the end of your booke is a laborinth long enough for simple Christians to loose themselues therein Though therefore your deuices be familiar to your selfe who night and day dreame thereof yet that maketh them no whit the easier to the simple who can quickely apprehend that Christ was content to die for their sinnes and to be buried for the more certaine triall of death and to haue his soule bestowed where pleased himselfe till his resurrection when he raised himselfe from death as the vanquisher and commaunder of death and of the whole power and Dominion of Satan death and hell but that Christe soule after death descended to Hades that is to the generall indefinite condition and Dominion of death without any mention of the place where it abode this is more like one of Aristotles Metaphysicall abstracts then any part of the Christian faith Heerein all the later famous and godly restoarers of religion in a manner doe ioyne with vs as Master Bucer P. Martyr Bullingere Oleuian c. yea master Caluine liked this also well enough though yet he seemeth to leane more to another sense If you meane those learned men were of opinioÌ„ that descending to Sheol which the Septuagint cal hades referred to the bodies or liues of good or bad did in the old Testament signifie their going to the graue I am of the same opinion with them I haue not once nor twice professed as much but if any of them did thinke as none of them doe that Sheol in the Hebrew tongue or in the Scriptures importeth not hell but onely the graue I must haue leaue to dissent from such as be of that mind Howbeit neither Peter Martyr nor Bullingere nor Bucer nor Oleuian nor Caluine are of that mind notwithstanding they diuersely expound this Article What Caluine thinketh of Christes suffering hell paines is not to this purpose but most certainely hee taketh Hades in the Creede for hell and for the paines thereof Of the rest excepting Oleuian I haue spoken before and Oleuians reasons to prefer his sense before all other senses of this Article are very weake and not worthy a man of his learning He layeth this for the maine ground thereof which is not graunted and cannot be prooued That this Article of Christes descending to Hades was Christs extreamest and lowest humiliation and no part of his exaltation Which way will you or Oleuian prooue that and yet this is the onely cause why he would haue Hades signifie the ignominious state of Christes bodie in the graue where he lay oppressed and as it were swallowed vp of death But Oleuians suppositioÌ„ that certainly Peter in the second of the Acts spake of Christs extreamest humiliation and deriued it from Dauids wordes is vtterly void of all iust proofe For Peter proposeth the manner and power of Christes resurrection Now that was no part of Christes humiliation Againe the words which Peter citeth out of Dauid argue rather the singular prerogatiue which Christ had ouer death aboue Dauid and others that his flesh saw no corruption nor his soule was for saken in hell which things whatsoeuer their meaning be sound rather to Christs honor and Soueraignitie then to his abasement and humilitie Thirdly Oleuian referreth this to the basenesse of the graue where I hope Christes soule was not And if you make heauen or Paradise where Christes soule was the lowest abasement that Christ could suffer you will proue a mad merrie diuine Lastly where Oleuian would haue the shame of the graue to be the victorie of those hellish paines which he supposeth Christ suffered on the crosse call you that the victory of hell ouer Christs soule when it ascendeth with honour and blisse to heauen and the society of all the Saints These things must hang better together before I can be induced to admit them whosoeuer offereth them though I make it as lawfull for me to refuse Oleuians coniectures as he maketh it for himselfe to leaue all the Fathers and the reformed churches of the Augustane confession expounding that article of the Creed as I doe But we are to know that as you cite them and vrge them they haue no such authority and credit as hitherto we haue yeelded vnto them And that for three causes First for that your translating and turning them he descended into hell is corrupt partiall and vntrue The exceptions which you take against these words are three First that they are ill translated by me Secondly that they were lately put into the Apostles Creed Thirdly that they conteine an error which was Christs going to Limbus to fetch the Patriarks thence If the rest be no truer then the first we shal soone haue done with them Is this my translation of the Creed he descended into hell Can you shew vs since this Realme spake English or since it receaued the Christian faith that euer it had any other word in this place of the Creed but hell or a word equiualent to it The Saxons before vs said And he ny 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 â—…o helle and he downe went to hell The Britons before them if that tongue be not changed Descenawdd y yffern he descended to inferne So that in calling this translation corrupt partiall and vntrue you shew that you haue lately deuised a sense of that article which these parts of the Christian world neuer heard before And where you would haue me euidently and soundly conuince you by Greeke authority that hades is neuer applied to the state and condition of the godly deceased and then you will yeeld I like well your wit that wil be sure to say what you list without warrant or proofe and then lay the burden on others Must I prooue the negatiue or you rather not be beleeued till you haue iustly prooued by the Sctiptures and by the auncient Greeke fathers that hades with them did signifie the place where the soules of the righteous were receaued after Christs resurrection or that hades with them was not a place of darkenesse vnder the earth which what that be in Christian religion besides hell I leaue to the
nothing is superfluously repeated so nothing is obscurely couered in it And though this Article He descended to hell wanted for a time in some Churches euen as some part of Scripture did yet was it retained by all Christian Writers as a ground of true religion from the Apostles time and professed in some Churches very anciently in their Creed and at last generally receiued in all places All the Fathers of Christes Church with one consent teach this as a point of the Christian faith That Christ after death descended to hell insomuch that Austen resolutely sayth Who but an Infidell will denie that Christ was in hell Where Abrahams bosome was neither was nor is agreed amongst the learned only Austen rightly inferreth out of Christes words That being a place of comfort and farre off aboue Hades where the rich man was tormented with a great Gulfe setled betwixt those two places it could be no part nor member of hell The rest which are very many appeare by the seuerall Titles ouer ech Page or by the Table prouided to finde the same with more facilitie THE SVRVEY OF CHRISTES SVFFERINGS FOR MANS REDEMPTION IT may seeme somewhat strange to thee Christian Reader as it doth likewise to me that one and the selfe same cause being twice now debated and discussed in writing on either side we should at the last be farther from agreeing on the true state of the controuersie than we were at the first entring into the matter If the fault be either in the doubtfulnesse of my words proposing it or in the diuersnesse of my mind defending it I refuse no reproch of follie and inconstancie but if I keeping close to the points which I first propounded and calling vpon the aduerse part with as great vehemencie and importunitie as I could to goe directly to the issue and no way to digresse from the things in question the Impugner trusting more to the couert of his words than to the soundnesse of his proofs will of purpose shunne the marke prefixed and roue at pleasure with doubtfull and deceitfull termes to hide the nakednesse of his side and to make the Reader beleeue he hath matter of moment when indeed he doth not so much as vnderstand himselfe or take any knowledge of the chiefest things which I obiect or alledge then is he woorthie to beare the blame who best deserueth it and thou Christian Reader mayest soone perceiue and assoone pronounce both for thine owne ease and for an end to be had in this strife for to thee the Confuter referreth himselfe and so doe I whether of vs flieth the touchstone of trueth and faileth in the due proofe of his doctrine as neere as God shall giue thee wisdome to discerne light from darknesse and grace to preferre trueth before falshood In the Preface of my Sermons published I much misliked and openly charged the ouer hastie Discourser that called himselfe H. I. for cleane changing the state of the first Question and to the maine diuision of his Treatise where he sayth The whole controuersie hath in it two points the first That Christ suffered for vs the wrath of God c I replied in my conclusion It was too much boldnesse to outface the world in print that this was the position which I impugned There were too many witnesses there for me to denie or for him to belie the Question he knew it well enough but he could not tell how to proue that which I then reproued and therefore he shranke from it and dallied with generall and doubtfull termes And lest either the patient Reader or strict Examiner should be forced farre to seeke for the chiefe points by me denied or affirmed in those Sermons I purposely and plainly numbred and deliuered them in such sort as none could mistake them but he that would wilfully ouerleape them My words thou wilt pardon me to repeat good Christian Reader that thereby thou mayest see whether I alter or new frame my first questions and resolutions as this Prater pretendeth by his euery where complaining of my manifolde ambiguities fallacies and contrâ—…rieties or he rather dissembleth the weaknesse and couereth the badnesse of his cause vnder certeine perplexed and confused phrases as anon thou shalt heare more at large These are my words in the foresayd Preface I laboured in these my Sermons to prooue these foure points First That it was no where recorded in holy Scriptures nor iustly to be concluded by the Scriptures that Christ suffered the true paines of Hell Secondly That as the Scriptures describe to vs the paines of the Damned and of hell there are manie terrors and torments which without euident impietie can not be ascribed to the Sonne of God Thirdly That the death and bloud of Christ Iesus were euidently frequently constantly set downe in the writings of the Apostles as the sufficient price of our Redemption and true meane of our Reconciliation to God and the verie same proposed in the figures resembled in the sacrifices of the Law and sealed with the Sacraments of the New testament as the verie ground-worke of our saluation by Christ and so haue beene receiued and beleeued in the Church of God foureteene hundred yeeres before any man euer made mention of hell-paines to be suffered in the soule of Christ. Lastly where the Scriptures are plaine and pregnant That Christ died for our sinnes and by his death destroyed him that had power of death euen the diuell and reconciled vs when we were strangers and enemies in the body of his flesh through death besides That the Holie ghost in these places by expresse words nameth the bodily death of Christ as the meane of our Redemption Reconciliation to God no considerate Diuine might affirme or imagine Christ suffered the death of the soule for somuch as the death of the soule must exclude Christ from the grace spirit and life of God and leaue in him neither faith hope nor loue sanctitie nor innocencie which God forbid any Christian man should so much as dreame And if any man to mainteine his deuice would inuent a new hell and another death of the soule then either Scriptures or Fathers euer heard or spake of they should keepe their inuentions to themselues it sufficed me to beleeue what I read and consequently not to beleeue what I did not reade in the Word of God which is and ought to be the foundation of our faith Whether there be any darkenesse or doubling in my speech I leaue it to thy censure good Christian Reader I affirme touching our redemption and reconciliation to God what the Scriptures affirme and as neere as I could in the selfe-same words I denied the late additions of some men in matters of so great weight which the Scriptures by their perpetuall silence denie and by their open and euident consequents disprooue and impugne If any man thinke my Sermons in these points lesse euident or pertinent to the purpose than my Preface let him looke
to the places where these things are handâ—…ed and iudge in Gods name as he findeth cause remembring that he which withstandeth or neglecteth the trueth withstandeth and neglecteth his owne saluation First that no Scripture doth witnesse or warrant Christs suffering the true paines of hell in his soule see either the proposing of their opinions that so thinke or the examining of their proofes which are brought for that conceit or the shutting vp of that part which sheweth the summe of all aforesayd which I close in this wise Then are there in the sacred Scriptures neither any praedictions that Christ should suffer the paines of hell in his soule heere on earth nor causes why he must suffer them nor signes that he did suffer them and consequently what soeuer is pretended no proofe that these sufferings must be added to the Crosse of Christ before the worke of our saluation can be perfect Secondly that such paines of hell as the Scriptures expresse and auouch may not be applied to Christ without apparent impietie reade what I write concerning the particulars and settle thy iudgement gentle Reader as thou likest best I desire not to preuaile where I bring not sufficient proofe emptie words on either side are slender meanes to quiet thy conscience or settle thy faith if thou seeke to be religious Thirdly where the whole course and tenor of the sacred Scriptures do plainly and fully ascribe our Redemption and the remission of our sinnes to the death and bloud of Christ Iesus I dare not delude the words of the Holy ghost as if they were euery where improper or imperfect but by the foure first effects of Christs crosse I make it appeare how sufficient our saluation is by the bloud of Christ without anie supplie of hell paines to be suffered in the soule of Christ. Lastly since no Christian man may doubt but we are redeemed and saued by the death of Christ how farre it is from all sense and shew of holy Scripture to subiect Christ to the death of the soule and how repugnant to the mouthes and mindes of the ancient and catholike fathers I insert a speciall discourse and thence obserue that where whensoeuer the Holie ghost speaketh of the death of Christ he meaneth the death of Christs body suffered on the altar of the Crosse and by no meanes the death of Christs soule These things being thus sensibly and plainly set downe to the view and reach of all men were they neuer so simple if they were Christians what reason had you Sir Refuter in your Treatise to slide from all this and to delude your Reader by telling him that the whole controuersie had in it two points 1 That Christ suffered for vs the wrath of God 2 That after his death on the Crosse he went not into hell in his soule as if I proposed or proued nothing in the first part of my Sermons but that Christ did not suffer for vs the wrath of God did I or could I make or mooue anie such question that in preciâ—…e words taught the wrath of God against our sinnes was verie great in the Crosse of Christ did I not in plaine termes ascribe to Christ a double sense of Gods wrath the first pursuing our suretie being innocent and obedient and euen his owne and onelie sonne with all maner of corporall and temporall scourges vnto death before it could be pacified the next a serious contemplation of that eternall and intolerable vâ—…ngeance which the Iustice of God had in store for vs by reason of our manifolde sinnes whose danger and destruction touched him as neere through the tendernesse of his loue and pitie as if it had beene imminent ouer his owne head But this you will say is not the wrath which you meane Sir whatsoeuer your meaning be which is scant knowen to your selfe as anon we shal better perceiue the words of your Treatise setting the very question to which your Reader must looke ouerlashed with two palpable vntrueths vnfit for a man of that care and conscience which you would seeme to haue For first this could be no question with me whether Christ suffered for vs the wrath of God who exactly affirmed that Gods wrath was great in the Crosse of Christ and admitted in the soule of Christ a sight and sense of Gods temporall wrath inflicted on his bodie and of Gods eternall wrath prepared for our sinnes Againe had I moued that question which I neuer meant doth the first part of the controuersie containe no more but Whether Christ suffered the wrath of God or no are your hell paines so soone vanished into smoake is the death of Christs soule no question with you whether the death of Christs bodie and the shedding of his bloud be the full price of our Redemption and cause of our reconciliation to God is it not worth the asking nor worth the answering but you ranne from the rest not able to iustifie that which I disproued and then as your maner is you catch a large and licentious word and currie that till you confound both your selfe and your Reader For who but you would haue proposed such a question Whether Christ suffered for vs the wrath of God knowing that in the Scriptures themselues according to which we must frame our speech in matters of faith there are many degrees and differences of Gods wrath whereof some may be attributed to Christs sufferings without offence others can not without plaine impietie and therefore the question which you proposed in your Treatise was but a very stale to make your Reader gaze at whiles you shifted aside from the matter which I moued The one you will say is a proofe of the other for he which suffereth Gods wrath must needs suffer the paines of hell That was and must be the whole strength of your Treatise vnlesse you will confesse that you meant to waste your paper and mocke your Reader with a number of emptie and idle fansies But how faint and feeble that foundation was to beare so great a building the conclusion of my Sermons doth sufficiently shew In which I tolde you that either your argument must be vitious if your antecedent were particular or if to make your argument good you enlarged your antecedent to be generall your first proposition would be both iniurious and blasphemous For though Christ might and did suffer some parts of Gods wrath as the Scripture vseth that word which is all that your indefinite proposition will implie yet it would no way follow that he therefore suffered the paines of hell And if to amend your consequent you did affirme that Christ suffered the whole wrath of God and euery part thereof and so by consequent the paines of hell also the forme of your argument was bettered but your antecedent on which the conclusion must depend was a most false and wicked assertion for then must Christ haue suffered reprobation desperation eternall
damned doe though in circumstances of time and place his sufferings somewhat differed from theirs Your quintessencing and new framing of another hell which the Scriptures neuer speake of your quenching hell-fire with a fansie your appointing God to be the tormentor in hell with his immediate hand your nice diuiding betweene the substance and circumstance of Gods eternall iudgements your placing the substance thereof in the apprehension of the soule and that as well in this life as in the next with a number of like audacious and desperate deuises to vphold the name or the shade of hell-paines in the sufferings of Christ wee shall anon discusse when we come to your opening of the question in the meane while the Reader must marke The question is not whether Christ bare the burden of all our sinnes on the tree or whether he were touched and tempted in all things like to his brethren yet still without sinne but whether it can be prooued by the Scriptures that Christ must beare all and the selfe same burdens of our sinnes which wee should haue borne in this life and the next and which the damned doe and shall beare Your distinction of the substance and circumstance of Gods endlesse and mercilesse vengeance of sinne in hell we shall quickly let the Reader see how vainely you presume it without all warrant of holy Scripture and how falsely you applie it to the person of Christ against the manifest Scripture if first we obserue how handsomely you set downe the doctrine which I defend in the next words to your owne hieroglyphicall question of purpose that if you cannot by trueth ouerbeare it you may at least by falshood disgrace it His contrary opinion say you we conceaue thus that Christ suffered for our sinnes nothing else but simply and meerely a bodily death altogether like as the godly doe often suffer at the hands of persecutors sauing onely that God accepted the death of his sonne as a ransome for sin but the death of his seruants he doth not Had you not seene and read my sermons printed before you made this late defence you might haue excused your selfe Sir defender by forgetting or mistaking my wordes but after so often and open repeating them in Print what cause can be imagined why you should thus apparently peruert my words and purposely forsake the points which I proposed saue onely that finding the foile and doubting a fall you would gladly slippe your necke out of the collar and seeing no better meanes you thinke it more skâ—…ll to stand wrangling about the Question then to be taken tardie with saying iust nothing in a matter of the greatest weight and chiefest regard in Christian religion My words are euery where plaine enough as well in deliuering as debating the question that Christ suffered no death saue onâ—…ly the death of the bodie by the verdit of holy Scripture and therefore whatsoeuer the Scripture speaketh of Christs death it is intended and referred to the death of Christs bodie on the Crosse and by no meanes to the death of his soule The words of my preface are these Where the Scriptures are plaine and pregnant that Christ died for our sinnes and by his death destroyed him that had power ouer death euen the Deuill and reconciled vs when we were strangers and enemies in the body of his flesh besides that the holy Ghost in these places by expresse words nameth the bodily death of Christ as the meane of our redemption and reconciliation to God no considerate Diuine may affirme or imagine Christ suffered the death of the soule When I come in my Sermons to handle that point I thus beginne it That Christ did or could suffer the death of the soule is a position farre from the words but farther from the groundes of sacred Scriptures When I shew the Fathers doe ioyne in the same resolution with the Scriptures I say Rightly therefore doe the Ancient Fatâ—…ers teach that Christ dying for our sinnes suffered ONELY THE DEATH OF THE BODIE BVT NOT OF THE SOVLâ—… Concluding their testimonies I capitulate in this wise I hope to all men learned or well aduised it will seeme no Iesuiticall phrenzie but rather Christian and Catholike doctrine that the Sonne of God dying for our sinnes suffered NOT THE DEATH OF THE SOVLE BVT ONELY OF THE BODIE If you vnderstand not these words Sir Defender your Reader will iudge you fitter to learne your abc then to dispute questions in Diuinitie if you doe conceaue them and will peruert them let him likewise pronounce whether it be sinceritie or impudencie in you thus to outface the matter against my plaine speach and to make Proclamation that I defend Christ suffeâ—…ed nothing else for our sinnes but simply and meerely a bodyly death altogether like as the godly often doe at the hands of persecutors Had you said I maintaine Christ suffered no death but onely a bodily death I would haue asked you by what Scriptures you or all your adherents can disproue it but charging me as you doe with this opinion that Christ suffered nothing else but simply and meerely a bodily death altogether like the godly I must tell you this is one of your trueths which many men will call a malitious leasing since my wordes are publikely extant to the contrarie My first resolution was Christ saw before hand that going to his Crosse he should tast all kindes of calamities and so it came to passe For betweene his last Supper and his death he was betrayed of Iudas abiured of Peter forsaken of all his followers he was wrongfully imprisoned falsly accused uniustly condemned he was buffeâ—…ed whipped skorned reuiled he endured cold nakednesse thirst wounding hanging shame reproach and all sorts of deadly paines besides heauinesse of hart and agonie of mind which oppressed him in the Garden All this I affirme Christ suffered before his death and therefore all this besides his meere bodily death to which I added all those afflictions and passions of the Soule which naturally and necessarily follow paine and accompany death You perchance would annex the paines of hell and the death of the Soule but those are the very points in question which I then did and yet doe vtterly exclude from the sufferings of Christ. Where you say I hold Christs death was altogether like as the godly doe suffer at the hands of Persecutors I know not what you meane by your altogether in some things his death was like theirs in many things vnlike A wrongfull and painefull death of the body he suffered at the hands of the Iewes as the godly doe often at the hands of their persecutors and a full perswasion he alwaies had of Gods exceeding and assured loue and fauour towards him in the middest of all his anguishes as the godly haue in theirs though in farre lesse perfection then his was but as touching the cause the manner the force of his death I make it altogether vnlike theirs
They inherite both sinne and death from their Parents and so of necessity must die and putrifie in the graue he did inherite neither but being free from both yeelded himselfe to die that he might purge and abolish sinne Death wresteth our soules from our bodies be we neuer so patient whiles sence doth last he breathed out his soule powerfully and willingly which none could take from him except he would lay it downe of his owne accord Our bodies doe rot in the graue and lye in corruption which is the dominion of death till the time they shall be restored his body could not be dissolued to ashes because neither part of his humane nature might perish after it was once vnited to his Diuine but lay in the graue without corruption resisting death and rose with speede in glory ouerthrowing death first in him selfe and after in all his members at their appointed time So that death is now a necessarie consequent to our sinfull nature his voluntary death was the satisfaction for our sins and pacification of Gods wrath restoring vs againe to Gods fauour which through sin we had lost Thus haue you both swarued very far Sir Desender from your owne question which your selfe put in your first Treatise though wide from our purpose and wholy misreported the doctrine which I formerly auouched by Scriptures and Fathers giuing small hope you will deale more sincerely in the rest that enter so corruptly at the first but you will now open the whole state of the Question which we are content to heare The opening of the whole state of the Question For the better vnderstanding whereof we must note these principall things What you calâ—… the opening of the Question I may better call the darkning and obscuring of the Question with many trifling and tedious obseruations with many new found farre fet and ill applyed phrases with many bold and false assertions powred out of your owne braines without any shew or so much as pretence of holy Scripture And if you may be suffered thus to raigne and reuele in matters of Religion at your pleasure it is an easie way for you to conclude any thing without any great paines or proofes For you bring vs a world of wordes warranted by no mans authoritie but by your owne and out of them you frame false positions fitte for your fancie and vtter them as vndoubted principles of Christian Religion which indeede haue in them neither truth nor sence when they come to be examined As is your matter so is your method tumbling and tossing too and fro like the vnsettlednesse of your head and spending twentie pages in meere confusion and contradiction for which cause I must be driuen to recall your conceits to some speciall heads least in pursuing your steps I loose both my selfe and the Reader The things which you disorderly shuffle and I shall be forced more largely to handle concerne either the offender which is man or the offence which is sinne or the Iudge which is God or the punishment which is death or the ransommer and redeemer which is Christ. I meane to meddle with no more in any of these but what directly pertaineth to this question and serueth aptly to exclude your conceits and truely to establish the collections which I make First then 1 touching MAN who consisteth of body and soule the doubt will be whether the whole man sinned in Adam that the whole might suffer in Christ or whether the soule onely sinned that the soule of Christ onely must suffer Secondly in 2 SINNE must be remembred how it commeth and what it bringeth Sinne is either COMMITTED as by Adam or INHERITED as by vs all or ASSVMED as by Christ who tooke vpon him the punishment of our sinnes though neither committed nor inherited by him And of it selfe sinne breedeth in the offendor where it is not remitted clensed and remooued by the blood of Christ POLLVTION of the whole man STING of conscience and REVENGE of Gods wrath in this life and the next Thirdly for the 3 IVDGE which is God we must learne from what ground within him the punishments of his elect in this life doe proceede whether from his Iustice or from his loue or from both mixed together by whom he executeth his iustice in earth and in hell whether by his immediate hand or by inferiour ministers and meanes with what measure he proportioneth it as well to the faithfull in this life as to the faithlesse till the number of their sinnes be full and lastly to what purpose he directeth it either to reuenge sinne as in the wicked and damned or to represse sinne as in the godly or to declare his iustice as in Infants baptized or to perfit his graces as in the best of his Saints here on earth or to purge and abolish sinne and to prooue obedience as in the person of Christ Iesus Fourthly 4 DEATH which is the wages of sinne and includeth all the punishments prouided here and elsewhere for sinners is either corporall parting the soule from the bodie or spirituall separating the soule from the life and grace of God or eternall excluding both bodie and soule from the ioy and blisse of Gods heauenly kingdome and wrapping them both in the darkenesse fire and horrour of hell for euer That all the paynes and griefes of this life are the seedes of death and wayes to death and so come vnder the name of death which driueth the soule from the bodie is now presumed and shall be prooued in place conuenient Fiftly concerning the 5 REDEEMER which is Christ to whose sufferings all that is aforesaid must in some sort be referred the question is in what part and how farre he suffered feared or apprehended the wrath of God against our sinnes but without question we must know and beleeue that his person was naturally and infinitely beloued of God all the elect being imbraced and accepted onely for him and in him and that the dignitie of his person and depth of his fauour with God when hee submitted himselfe to shew his obedience and maintaine Gods iustice by the shame and sharpenesse of the Crosse receiued in his humaine nature was the right ground and true cause of our Redemption and Reconciliation to God whose patience vnto death was a greater and acceptabler sacrifice to God for sinne then all the world yea then all earthly and heauenly creatures were worth And to increase or strengthen this voluntary sacrifice for sinne the paines of hell were no way needfull since Christ was to shew his obedience in this life onely and after death to rise and raigne with glory and by that which he suffered on the Crosse he was to learne the obedience of a Sonne and not the vengeance due to deuils In all these issues if I would take the Discoursers trade to affirme what I list without any further proofe I could end the whole cause in as fewe wordes as I haue expressed it but since that will neither
content the Reader nor conclude the gaine-sayer I must haue leaue in larger maner as occasion serueth both to repell the Defenders bold presumptions and to confirme those things which I take to be safer Resolutions in Christian Religion The principall things which you would haue noted Sir Discourser are either defectiue in their diuisions or coincident in their partes or repugnant to your purpose All suffering of paines in man you say is from God either properly from his Iustice or from his holy loue either from himselfe alone or also from his instruments and inferiour meanes and that for sinne either inherent or imputed either as Correction or as punishment either immediatly or mediatly as anon we shall further see Not one of these foure partitions which you make the fortresse of your cause is sound and sufficient and the fift is the selfe-same with the second it onely varieth in words In these two diuisions all suffering of paines in man is from Gods Iustice or from his holy loue either as correction or as punishment you roue obscurely but absurdly at the ground the measure the purpose of all paines and punishments as they come from God on all men be they wicked or godly Christ himselfe not excepted either in this world or the next For the GROVND of them you say they proceed from Gods iustice properly or from his holy loue The MEASVRE and PVRPOSE of them you confound in saying either as correction or as punishment which you should distinguish From Gods iustice properly on men infected with sinne commeth nothing but punishment that is their due which the iust Iudge awardeth them From Gods loue of it selfe commeth nothing but grace and blisse for which cause he is the fountaine of Grace and father of Mercy to such as he loueth In the reprobate God hateth their sinnes and so their persons being the committers or inheriters of sinne still abiding In the elect Gods holinesse disliketh their sinnes as much as the others but their persons he loueth and fauoureth for Christ his sonne in whom they are chosen And though the full and due punishment of their sinne which is spirituall and eternall death be translated from them and abolished in Christ yet when men redeemed and freed from the heauie burden of their sinnes doe not earnestly repent them or eftsoones frequent them God for the conseruation of his holinesle and demonstration of his righteous iudgement to all the world doth sooner and sharper visit and punish with the corporall and temporall scourges of this life his owne children neglecting or resuming their sinnes than his enemies whom with longer patience he suffereth to heape vp wrath against the day of wrath A iudgement mercilesse therfore as S. Iames calleth it is and shall be to the wicked whereas in the godly mercy reioyceth against iudgement but not without iustice For iudgement which in God can neuer be without iustice since he is the righteous Iudge of the world must begin at the house of God and when we are iudged we are chastened with a mercifull iudgement that we should not be condemned with the world And though in the afflictions of the godly there be many things added of fauour as the measure which is tolerable not ouerwhelming their patience the purpose which is holy to recall them from the delight and custome of sinne and to perfit the graces of God in them the comfort which is great that God loueth their persons when he pursueth their sinnes the promise which is sure that if they suffer with Christ they shall reigne with Christ and such like yet the smart of Gods rod and sharpnesse of his whip wherewith he awaketh the negligent and tameth the vnruly proceed from his iust iudgement and commend his holinesse which hateth all sinne in whomsoeuer and declare his iustice to the whole world that he wincketh not either at the waiwardnesse or at the carelesnesse of his owne children The places in Scripture witnessing thus much are infinite and easie for euery childe to obserue and therefore one shall suffice for all To his Church God sayth by the mouth of Ieremie Though I vtterly destroy all the Nations where I haue scattred thee yet will I not vtterly destroy thee but I will correct thee by iudgement and not vtterly cut thee off I haue stricken thee with the wound of an enemie and with a cruell chastisement for the multitude of thine iniquities thy sinnes were increased Thy sorrow is incurable for the number of thine offences ‖ because ‖ thy sinnes were increased I haue done these things vnto thee ‖ But ‖ I will restore health to thee and heale thee of thy wounds The godly in this world doe suffer paines for their sinnes but these whatsoeuer they be yea though death it selfe are improperly called punishments they are chasticements of sinne This new Grammer doth best become your newe doctrine All paines for sinnes whatsoeuer suffered by any of the elect in this life are chasticements but in no wise you may indure to haue them called punishments except very improperly What is a chasticement properly but a punishment moderated with loue and mercy And since you be so precise that no paine suffered by any of Gods children may properly be called a punishment whence I pray you is the word punishment deriued not from the Latine word punire to punish and punio from Poena which our English tongue resembling the Latine calleth paine so that paine and punishment are wordes of one deriuation and so properly of one signification and by force of the wordes properly all paine for sinne is punishment for sinne And therefore in all mens iudgements sauing yours chasticement is a punishment tempered with fauor and not a paine excluding all punishment as you make it in your dissolute diuision Read either the text or notes of the Geneuian Translation of the Bible which you would seeme so much to follow or whose translation you will and see whether they doe not contradict your childish conceite that the Chasticement of Gods children is no punishment Moses was punished for their sakes and againe God doth not punish with the hart the Wiseman speaking vnto God with how great circumspection saith he wilt thou punish thine owne children And vpon those words of Ieremie O Lord correct me but with iudgement not in thine anger they of Geneua note He onely prayeth that God would PVNISH THEM with mercie which Esay calleth in measure ca. 27. for here by iudgement is ment not onely the PVNISHMENT but also the MERCIFVLL MODERATION of the same So that Chastisement noteth the measure of the punishment which God fauourably inflicteth on his children not according to their sinnes nor exceding their strength He hath not dealt with us saith Dauid after our sinnes nor rewarded vs according to our iniquities There hath no tentation taken you saith Paul but such as belongeth to men and God is faithfull
which will not suffer you to be tempted aboue that you be able but will giue the issue with the tentation that you may be able to beare it Yea to his enimies God mitigateth the heauinesse of his hand at first and giueth them time and place to amend before he destroyeth them I gaue her space to repent saith Christ but she repented not and therefore when the measure of their sinnes waxeth full God repaieth them the fulnes of vengeance which is puuishment proportioned to their sinnes and this is the due and proper punishments of those that are wilfull and doe not repent their wickednesse The paines of the godly are partly remembrances to cause repentance partly Chasticements to humble vs and mortifie sinne in vs but these whatsoeuer they be yea though death it selfe are improperly called punishments Here you touch after your loose maner the purpose of God in afflicting his seruants which you say is to reforme them but in no wise to punish them If God had none other meaning in afflicting the faithfull but to reforme their sins nor none other meanes to doe that but by paines your speech had some truth but because God hath diuers purposes in so doing and diuers waies without paines to amend his children this that here you bring as the rest else-where is a blind groping besides the truth and a bold presuming that you are in the truth God many times lodeth the best and chiefest of his Saintes with oftner and greater troubles then he doth the meaner sort not because their sinnes are more then others or they neede more amendment then the rest but to TRIE their faith as in Abraham and Iob or to shew the perfection of his grace as in Paul or to prepare them to glory as in Lazarus or to conforme them to Christ whose steps they must follow and often to declare his iustice as he did in striking Dauids child when the sinne was both repented and pardoned in the Father In the sicknesse and death of which child as of all other infants regenerate by Baptisme there neither was nor can be any vse of Repentance humiliation or mortification for themselues and consequently by your owne diuision since to them it can be NO CORRECTION it must in them be a punishment of sinne not actually committed by them but naturally deriued to them by the guilt and corruption of their Parents Yea the generall paine laid on Adam and all mankinde as dissolution by death priuation of originall light and grace corruption of sinne infection of soule which declare vs all to be the children of wrath by nature were they corrections or punishments of Adams sinne since after death there is no repentance nor amendment of life and the rest are neither barres to sinne nor retraits from sinne but either parts effects or causes of sinne which sticke so fast and beare such rule in many euen of the elect that no gentle or fatherly admonitions reprehensions or comminations will preuaile with them but they must be ouerruled and wearied with sharp and pearcing scourges before they will see or forsake the loathsomnesse of their sinne Wherein though it be a great fauour of God rather to persue them with all temporall plagues vnto their conuersion then to let them run headlong to euerlasting perdition yet the meanes which he vseth are mixed with iustice and mercie and are rightly beleeued to be punishments fully deserued by their sinnes though not fully proportioned to their sinnes the iust and full wages whereof in sinfull men can be none other but death corporall spirituall and eternall So that your diuision all paine from God is either correction or punishment and your position no paine in the godly is punishment are not onely friuolous and false but repugnant each to the other for so much as paine commeth from God for probation of faith perfection of grace assurance of saluation encouraging of others by example as well as for correction and death and correction in Infants where correction hath no place must by your owne partition be a punishment of sinne inflicted on the first Man and all his posteritie The which because we all inherite from our Parents and had it in vs at our birth when there was no vse of correction for vs it was then in vs all and so still remaineth a punishment of our first Parents sinne though by the grace and price of Christs death we are and shall be freed from it But come to your purpose and apply this to Christ for thither you bend and thereat you shoote is your diuision true in the sufferings of Christ then since by your owne assertion chastisements and remembrances which are the branches that you make of Correction belonged nothing at all to Christ and indeede there could be no cause to correct any sinfull corruption or affection in him where no sinne was it is a plaine confession that the bodily death and paines which Christ suffered on the Crosse were the punishment of our sinnes in his body and consequently a part of that curse which was imposed on the first mans sinne which you so stifly denied in your Treatise where you said Therefore Christs dying simply as the godly die that is a bodily death may in no sort be called a curse or cursed And if to shift of this contradiction and confession of the truth of my answere to the place of S. Paule Christ was made a curse for vs you referre these words as the godly doe not to the same kinde of death which is bodily in both but to the same cause of death which was different in Christ and his members Remember good Sir the words are not mine but your owne I put many differences betwixt the death of Christ and his Saints as namely the cause the manner and force of his death which I haue touched before but the kind of death which was bodily and not Ghostly is all one in Christ and the godly For Christ died not the death of the Soule no more doe the godly when they depart this life albeit they may oftentimes whiles here they liue draw neere to the death of the Soule by sinning which Christ could not And if you begin now to be better aduised I am not displeased with it it shall suffice that mine answere did and doth stand true that Christ in suffering bodyly paines and death for vs suffered a part of the same punishment and curse which was laid on all mankind for the sinne of Adam We must note especially that to suffer as the godly doe Chasticements and corrections is not to suffer or feele Gods wrath nor the punishment of sinne except it be in a very improper speech To suffer the true punishment satisfaction proper payment and wages of sinne onely that is to suffer properly and truely the wrath of God now then seeing the paines which Christ for vs did feele were indeede properly the
madde mens fits than sober and Christian verities And in plaine reason how agreeth this word principall either with proper or with immediate both which are ioyned by you with it Where God is principall there vseth he other meanes and instruments besides himselfe and his owne hand Principall hath alwayes accessaries and instruments and where they intermeddle they vse not Gods immediate hand but such meanes as they are able and apt to guide So that when God is principall punisher he is neither proper nor immediate punisher but vseth the seruice and force of his creatures to perfourme his appointment and when he is either the proper or immediate executour of his owne will he neither needeth nor vseth his creatures And here the third time you play with the word proper but very improperly as you did twice before first with Gods proper wrath then with the soules proper facultie of suffering now with the proper punisher which can no way be matched with principall and applyed to God without a palpable absurditie For referre principall whether you will to the determination or to the execution of Gods wil and iudgement to say that God is the principall determiner of his owne will is a wicked speech For who is Gods counseller to aduise him or associate to assist him that God should be principall and others concurrent with him to promote his will with their consents or restraine it with their dislikes God is not only a Iudge of the world but the sole Iudge thereof to make him principall and not sole therein is to impart his right and glorie vnto others which he will not endure Wee shall see honour and admire and with heart and voice magnifie the righteousnesse of Gods Iudgement that shall be giuen by his Sonne â—…n which sense it is said The Saints shall iudge the worlde yea we shall iudge the Angels but that is by submitting our wils to his and by glorifying his iudgement as in heauen his Saints alwaies doe not by clayming voices with him There is then no Iudge of the soule but onely God and to say he is principall Iudge thereof is apparantly to dishonour him Will you referre principall to the execution of Gods iudgements then he must haue some others to conioyne with him in common and they must vse such meanes as lie in their power and so God is neither the proper nor immediate punisher of the soule where he is the principall And when it pleaseth him to take vpon him the chiefe execution of his owne iudgement what cause is there he should call assistants vnto him Doth he lacke wisedome or power that his creatures must aide and helpe him I wish you to weigh your words better before you wade in things aboue your height Your words are absurd your matter is more absurd and the proofes you bring for it are most absurd of all To bring Christs soule within the compasse of hell paines you flash out the fire of hell as a fable and turne out of seruice the rest of the torments there namely reiection from the kingdome of heauen the sting of Conscience confusion of Sinne horrour of darkenesse and diuels despaire of ease and such like as no paines or at least as no substantiall paines of hell you suppose a paine which you imagine commeth from the immediate power of God vpon the soules of the wicked as well in earth as in hell and so not onely you make God the tormentor of soules and diuels in hell with his owne immediate hande but you so aggrauate the paine thereof with fierie words that the reprobate may fully feele it in this world and yet it neither doth end their liues nor waste their bodies which a pange of the stone or a fit of an Ague will doe The best proofe you bring for all this is a bold face and bigge words wherewith you bid all the world NOTE it is so But Sir if charitie did not stay me I should NOTE you rather for an idle talker then for a booke-maker which thinke it lawfull for you to allegorize all that the Scripture mentioneth or threatneth of hell and in the end broach out of the heate of your owne head a Chymysticall hell as well in this world as in the next and so little regard either the truth of Gods speech or the faith of the whole Church or the consciences of all good men that without any further trouble or triall WE MVST NOTE you say so Such archers such arrowes such cheapmen such chaffe a man of your pitch will hardly be brought to any other passe The bottome of your building for it deserueth not the name of a foundation it is so weake and rotten is this which I wish the Reader to NOTE it is so notable stuffe That where there are but three sorts of the soules suffering paine as you conceiue the first by the immediate hand of God the second by sympathie with the bodie and the third by her vehement and strong affections The affections you say are neither immediatly for sinne nor punishments at all properly in themselues the soules second facultie of suffering by sympathie with the bodie you affirme is not proper but common to vs with beasts the first therefore in your conceit is the proper and principall humane suffering for sinne which Christ must needs feele being a man made of God to suffer for all our sinnes Of this wandring and halting diuision I haue spoken before It is euident the soule may suffer paine from and with the bodie and from and by her owne powers and faculties of vnderstanding will sense and affections and from the hand of God immediate or mediate that is vsing other meanes than are beforenamed to punish the soule That the paine of the bodie paineth the soule of man there can be no question naturall euidence and dailie experience sufficientlie confirme it and this is that which you call sympathie when both doe suffer paine together the one from and with the other Touching the eies and eares how often impressions they make of feare and sorrow for our selues and others when the bodie is not touched nor pained euerie woman and childe can giue testimonie Threats rebukes euill reports taken in at the eares dangers distresses and losses foreseene or seene in our selues and others which must needs trouble and grieue the soule are no newes in any condition or person The affections which are both vngodlie and vnrulie are so manie blasts and stormes tossing the soule to and fro with anger and feare with desire and dislike with pensiue care of earthlie things and foolish pitie with hope and despaire with vnlawfull loue and hatred with vaine ioy and vnprofitable sorrow and with a number like headie and hastie passions insomuch that they often driue the soule to rage and furie or end this life with griefe and disdaine As for the vnderstanding and will the soule conceiuing Gods iust and heauie displeasure against sinne and knowing
against them Doe I set my selfe to prooue that in hell there is materiall fire and yet am I now almost afraid so to call it It is your wont Sir Discourser not mine to take vp termes that may be turned euery way and to plant your chiefe strength vpon the doubtfulnesse of their Signification Doe I any where apply the word materiall to hell fire or doe any of the places which I cite so call it If they doe name them if not how set I my selfe to prooue materiall fire in hell without any words or proofes sounding that way Know you my meaning without my words or doe you boldly presume of my meaning against my words If by materiall fire you meane that which is maintained by wood or by such like matter as nourisheth fire and without the which fire will quench for that is one of your chiefest obiections which you say is vnanswered then doe the places which I bring plainely prooue that hell fire is not materiall For Lactantius sayth of it It burneth of it selfe without any nourishment And Gregorie It is neither kindled with mans industrie nor nourished with wood but contrary to the nature of our fire it consumeth not what it burneth but rather repaireth what it eateth as Tertullian sayth of it So that neither my positions nor probations gaue you any cause to coniecture I meant your materiall fire The places produced by me expresse the contrary and mine owne words are S. Austen long since hath plainly resolued the fire of hell is not only a true fire which were my words but a corporall fire that shall punish both men and diuels And closing I make it a point of Christian doctrine deliuered by the Prophets and Apostles and receiued by the Fathers of all ages in Christs church that the fire of hell shall be visible and sensible to the bodies of the wicked and shall eternally and corporally punish the damned according to their deserts It was therefore your foolish obiection that hell fire must be materiall if it be not allegoricall according as you dreame it was no resolution of mine nor so much as mentioned by me I saw the ambiguity of the word well enough and for that cause did refraine it from the beginning For though materiall may be that which consisteth of matter and forme and so all things that are corporall as the wind the aire the heauens are likewise materiall yet in our vulgar speech and vnderstanding to which I framed my selfe that is materiall fire which is nourished with some MATTER apt to burne and consume and in that sense hell fire is no materiall fire The end of your answer in this place is farre woorse than your entrance for there you wittingly and wilfully peruert my words by adding ONLY and ALL vnto them directly against my meaning yea when I openly admonish the Reader to the contrary I inferred by occasion of former proofs therefore the iustice of God both temporally and eternally punisheth the soule by the bodie which words are most euidentlie true since in this life without all question the soule is punished by the bodie and after iudgement the bodie being cast into hell fire shall eternally afflict the soule My words then bearing in them a manifest trueth you take the paines by interlacing them to wrest them to an open falsehood for you make me say Therefore the iustice of God both temporally and eternally punisheth the soule ONLY by the bodie Now this is as false as the former was true for God in this life doth often punish the soule by her selfe and vntill the last day it is as certeine the soules of the wicked departed hence are punished without their bodies which so long lie dead in the dust of the earth What conscience this is for nothing in you must be impudence though it be neuer so shamelesse of an euident trueth to make a palpable errour by adding ONLY to my wordes which I carefully and purposely did auoide let the Reader iudge But the proposition inducing this conclusion you will say is generall to wit all prouocations and pleasures of sinne the soule taketh from her bodie all acts of sinne she committeth by her bodie the conclusion thereof you thinke should be likewise generall therefore ALL the soules paines for sinne both temporally and eternally is by the bodie Your thoughts Sir Discourser bewray your owne follie they must not marshall my reasons I can expresse mine intent without your helpe Out of a generall assumption what Art hindreth me to auouch an indefinite and particular conclusion especially when I meddle with Gods matters whose power and will in iudgement no rules of reason can binde or limit And if I would needs expresse the forme of a syllogisme as you vainly imagine I meant to doe in these words I neuer learned out of a negatiue for the maior to draw an affirmatiue for the conclusion but had not your eyes stood in your light it was easie for you to haue seene both what the conclusion must be by force of the premisses and how in respect of him that is all-iust and yet allmighty I thought not good to restraine him to my conclusions but to inferre in sted thereof that which sufficiently depended on the conclusion and could haue no question either in holy writ or dayly vse Both the premisses are orderly and plainly set downe in my writing and not loosely and ignorantly misplaced as yours are by putting the cart before the horse and taking that for the maior which with me is a part or appendix of the conclusion My words stand thus Nothing is more proportionable to Gods iustice than to ioyne them in paine that were ioyned in sinne and to retaine the same order in punishing which they kept in offending But all prouocations and pleasures of sinne the soule taketh from the bodie all acts of sinne shee committeth by the bodie What boy now knowing the first principles of Logicke doth not presently perceiue the conclusion must be therefore nothing is more proportionable to Gods iustice than both temporally and eternally to ioyne bodie and soule in paine which were ioyned in sinne and to make the bodie the instrument of her paine as it hath beene of her pleasure This conclusion is an vniuersall negatiue and yet doth not exclude all paine of the soule without the bodie to be vnagreeable to Gods iustice as you pretend I meane but auoucheth no paine to be more agreeable than where bodie and soule are both ioyned in suffering as they were in offending And because no punishment is more agreeable to Gods iustice than where both soule and bodie are coupled in paine as they were in sinne though it be no way against Gods iustice to punish the soule for a season without the bodie Therefore which is the inference that I vse the iustice of God both temporally and eternally punisheth the soule by the bodie that as it hath beene the instrument of her
ourselues vnrâ—…ghteous and odious vnto him And yet in mercy towaâ—…ds â—…s and honor â—…wards his Sonne God would make him the Redeemer and Sauiour of the world not neglecting his Iustice nor forgetting his loue but so mixing them both together that his dislike of our sinnes might appeare in the punishment of them and his relenting from the rigor of his Iustice in fauour of his onely Sonne might magnifiâ—… his mercy satisfie his wrath and enlarge his glory and declare in most ample manner the submission compassion and peâ—…fection of his Sonne as only worthy to performe that worke which procured and receaue that honor which followed mans Redemption Christ then suffered from the hand of God but mediate that is GOD DELIVERED him into the hands of sinners who were Satans instruments with all eproach and wrâ—…nge to put him to a contumelious and grieuous death God by his â—…ecret wisdome and iustice decâ—…eeing appointing and ordering what he should suffer at theiâ—… hands Our sinnes â—…e bare in his body on the tree not that his soule was free from feare sorrow 〈◊〉 derision and temptation but that the wicked and malitious â—…ewes practised all kind of shamefull violence and cruell tortuâ—…es on him by Whipping Racking pricâ—…ing and wounding the tenderest parts of his body whereby his soule â—…elt extreame and intoleâ—…able paines In all which he saw the determinate counsell of God and receaued in the garden from his father this Iudgement for our sinnes that he should be 〈◊〉 dâ—…liuered into the hands of sinners For had he not humbly submitted himselfe to obey his fatheâ—…s will no power in earth could haue preuailed against him but as he had often fortold his Disciples what the Priestes Scribes and Gentils should doe vnto him so when the hower was come which was foreappointed of God to obey his fathers will he yeelded himselfe into their hands they persuing him to death of enuie and malice but God thus perfourming euen by their wicked hands what he had â—…oreshewed by his Prophets that Christ should suffer For they not knowing him â—…or the wordâ—… of the Prophets fulfilled them in condemning him yea they fulfilled all things which were written of him So that no man shall need to runne to the immediate hand of God nor to the paines of hell for the punishment of our sinnes in the person of Christ the Iewes FVLFILLED ALL THINGS that were written of him touching his sufferings and therewith Gods anger against our sinnes was appeased and God himselfe reconciled vnto vs. Esay speaking of the violence done by the Iewes to Christ sayeth he was wounded for our transgressions and broken for our iniquities and with his stripes we are healed Thus the Lord layed vpon him the iniquitie of all vs and he bare our sinnes in his body on the tree by those sufferings before and on the Crosse which the Scriptures expresly declare and describe And as for the immediate hand of God tormenting the soule of Christ with the selfe same paines which the damned now suffer in hell which is this deuisers maine drift when he maketh or offereth any proofe thereof out of the word of God I shall be ready to receiue it if I can not refute it till then I see no cause why euery wandring witte should imagine what monsters please him in mans redemption and obtrude them to the faithfull without any sentence or syllable of holy Scripture I haue no doubt but all the godly will be so wise as to suffer no man to raigne so much ouer their faith with fancies and figures vnwarranted by the Scriptures vnknowen to all the learned and ancient councels and Fathers vnheard of in the Church of Christ till our age wherein some men applaude more their owne inuentions then all humane or diuine instructions The feare of bodily sufferings you thinke could not be the cause that there strained out from Christ much sweat of clotted blood You straine the text of the Euangelist to draw it to your bent Saint Luke hath no such words that there strained out from Christ much sweat of clotted blood he sayth Christes sweat was like drops of blood trickling downe to the ground Theophylact a Greeke borne and no way ignorant of his mother tongue expresseth Christes sweat in the garden by these words 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 Christes body or face DISTILLED with plentifull drops of sweat And albeit 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 sometimes signifie the congealed parts of that which is otherwise liquid and compacted pieces of that which els is poudered yet often it noteth that which is thickâ—… in comparison with thinner or eminent in respect of plainer Now Christes sweat might be thicke by reason it issued from the inmost parts of his bodie and was permixed with blood or els it might breake out with great and eminent drops as comming from him violently and abundantly and being coloured with blood and congealed with colde might trickle downe like DROPS or strings of blood vpon the ground Howsoeuer the Scripture saith not his sweate was clotted blood but like to congealed or cooled blood neither that such clots were strained out from him but that his sweate being thicked and cooled on his face fell from him like strings of blood But grant there could be no reason giuen of Christs bloodie sweat in the garden no more then there can be of the issuing first of blood and then of water out of his side when he was dead which S. Iohn doth exactly note as strange but yet true will you conclude what please you because many things in Christ both liuing and dying weâ—…e miraculous I bind no mans conscience to any probabilities for the cause of this sweate but onely to the expresse wordes and necessarie consequents of holy Scripture and yet I wish all men either to be sober and leaue that to God which he hath concealed from vs or if they will needes be gessing at the reason thereof for certaine knowledge they can haue none by no meanes to relinquish the plaine words or knowen groundes of holy Scripture to embrace a fansie of their owne begetting The learned and ancient Fathers haue deliuered diuers opinions of this sweate which thou mayest see Christian Reader in my Sermons and which we shall haue occasion anon to reexamine euery one of them being as I thinke more probable and more agreeable to Christian pietie then this Discoursers dreame of hell paines or Gods immediate hand at that present tormenting of the soule of Christ. And if we looke to the order and sequence of the Gospell we shall finde that feruent zeale extreamely heating the whole bodie melting the spirits thinning the blood opening the pores and so colouring and thicking the sweate of Christ might in most likelihood be the cause of that bloodie sweate Which S. Luke seemeth to insinuate when he saith that after Christ was comforted by an Angell from heauen and so recouered from his
former feare and freed from suffering hell paines wherein there is no comfort he prayed more earnestly or ardently and his sweate was in colour and consistence like drops or strings of blood trickling downe to the ground So that feruencie in prayer is set downe next before that sweate in the Gospell as a precedent or cause thereof Howbeit I onely barre the boldnesse of this deuiser who presumeth what pleaseth him of Christs bloodie sweate in the garden because the Scriptures doe not exactly mention the cause and thinke it no reason to let him build on a blinde coniecture a false conceit of his owne without any warrant of holy Scripture But I am repugnant to my selfe and some where I hold that Christ suffered no more but meere bodily paines that is in his soule from and by his bodie Neuerthelesse contrâ—…riwise I seeme somewhere to yeelde wholely so much as you affirme I leaue that grace to you Sir Discourser to roule to and fro and when you haue â—…aid a thing after a sense and in a sort then in another kind to vnsay it againe and laying the whole foundation of your cause vpon Christes suffering the wrath of God neither to bring any proofes or to shew any parts thereof by the word of God but to play with the termes of very proper and meere and to call that the opening of the whole question Indeed I euery where defend that Christ suffered no death expressed or mentioned in the Scriptures saue onely the death of the bodie from other passions or sufferings of the soule as feare sorrow shame and such like I doe not exempt the soule of Christ when he sustered for our sinnes though I leaue no place in him for the feare of damnation sting of conscience despaire or doubt of Gods fauour and such other shipwrackes of all faith hope patience and pietie The Crosse death and blood of Christ when I name I vse those words as the Scripture doth to declare the whole maner and order of his passion from the garden to the graue as it is described in the Euangelists not excluding either the feare or agonie which befell him before he was apprehended but comprising within his death his obedience and patience in all those asâ—…ictions which he suffered till he died And this is no wauering in mee to retaine the words of the holy Ghost in their right sense and vse but it is rather a childish dalliance in you Sir Discourser to suppose that the death of Christ doth import no more but the very act of giuing vp the ghost or els if I by that worde designe the rest of Christs sufferings endured at the time of his death by the witnesse of holy Scripture you will also hemme in your hell paines within the list of the same wordes though the Euangelists name or note no such thing in all the historie of Christs passâ—…on So likewise in speaking of Gods wrath against the wicked I wrap in no Ridles nor enuiron the Reader with a windlace of words but plainely and fairely distinguish it either by the naturall vertues and properties that are in God misâ—…iking and repreâ—…sing sinne or by the effects and punishments proceeding from God to reuenge the works and reward the workers of iniquitie In the wicked Gods holinesse hateth the euill deede and the doer that is both the sinne and the sinner and by his iustice without all loue or fauour towardes them awardeth a punishment against them according to their deserts which the power of God doth execute on them not respecting their strength but rather inabling them to continue in perpetuall torments of bodie and soule in hell fire for euer Gods purpose being onely to reuenge sinne in them and to destroy them for their sinnes which is most holy and righteous in him though it be neuer so grieuous and intollerable to them Gods iust and full iudgement against sinne where and when it pleaseth him to inflict it is the depriuing bodie and soule of all outward and inward peace and grace in this life for the time and the reiecting of both from all blisâ—…e and rest in the world to come for euer which is the losâ—…e of God and of all his blessings prouided in this life and the next for his elect These causes and parts Gods anger hath against the wicked for their sinnes and to euery of these the Scripture beareth witnesse In Christ Gods holinesse infinitely imbraced the humilitie obedience and charitie of his Sonne offering himselfe to be the ransommer of man and perfectly loued the integritie innocencie and puritie of his manhood created called and anointed of God to this intent and end that his death and bloodshedding should be the redemption of the world though God vtterly hated the sinnes of men which his sonne then assumed into the bodie of his flesh to beare the burden of them when wee could not Wherefore Gods iustice finding the loue of the Father towards his Sonne farre to exceede the hatred of the Creator against the vncleannesse of his sinfull but sedused creature did relent from the rigour of that iudgement which was prouided for sinne in Angels and with a fatherly regard and respect to the meanest part of the peâ—…son of his sonne decreed a punishment for our sinnes in the manhood of Christ which was a corporall death accompanied with the sharpest paines that Christ might endure with obedience and pacience whose voluntarie submission and sacrifice for sinne the iustice of God did accept as a most sufficient price and payment for all our sinnes which in themselues deserued euerlasting destruction of bodie and soule in hell fire with deuils This correction though very sharpe yet not ouerpressing the patience of Christs manhood Gods iustice would not release to his owne Sonne least he should seeme to make light account of our sinne if it were remitted onely for prayer and intreatie and without iust cause so terribly to punish the sinnes of the reprobate with all kinds of death I meane corporall spirituall and eternall And greater or other death then the death of the bodie God by no iustice could impose on the person of his Sonne since Christ could not be subiected to sinne which he must cleanse and abolish in vs much lesse be reiected from euerlasting â—…lisse and ioy to which hee must bring vs least of all linked and chained with deuils in perpetuall flames of hell fire for so much as hee was the true and onely Sonne of God for whose sake we all were adopted and made heires of eternall saluation And for this cause the power of God which is otherwise most dreadfull to men and Angels and so was then to the manhood of Christ restrained it selfe and tempered the smart of Christes paines to the stâ—…ength of Christes humane nature not meaning to ouerwhelme his patience but to trie his obedience to the vttermost In all which sufâ—…erings Gods counsell and purpose was most fauourable and honourable euen to the manhood
which are nothing like nor neare the paines of hell For example in harty and true repentance how great is the griefe and paine of euery part and facultie of the soule detesting and abhorring sinne and fearing and feeling the power of Gods wrath and yet I trust ech penitent person doth not suffer the paines of hell Feare griefe and sorrow then the soule of Christ might deepely tast when he suffered for sinne and yet be farre from the paines of hell But your collection from my words is more absurd for where I say the soule of Christ might suffer for sinne yet by no meanes could it receiue the same wages of sinne which we should haue receiued you inferre not only without any words of mine but directlv against my words ergo I meane or I ought to meane that the soule and mind of Christ suffered the paines of hell from the immediate hand of God and so where I auouch Christ by no meanes could suffer the same wages of sin which we should haue suffered you paraphrase Imeane or I ought to meane Christ suffered the selfe same which we should haue suffered and of my negatiues you make affirmatiues and then tell the Reader I contradict my selfe But in plaine termes I allow in Christ all those afflictions and passions of the Soule which naturally and necessarily follow paine and this ALL reacheth vnto moe then meere bodily paines it includeth the soules proper and immediate paines also Where you learned to reason I doe not know but you haue the best grace to disgrace your selfe that euer I saw and if this be all the learning you haue you may clout shoes with this Al. Doe the torments of hell naturally and necessarily follow paine then whosoeuer in any part or for any cause is payned suffereth the paines of hell or at least the soules proper and immediate paines which you make extreamest and sharpest in hell Babes and boyes may thus bable it is a shame for men to talke so much out of square Let my words stand simplely as you bring them and allow in Christ all those afflictions and passions of the soule which naturally and necessarily follow paine what conclude you out of them your sight is very sharpe if you see any absurditie in them Howbeit you draw my words from their right course and sense by leauing out what pleaseth you My words are When the auncient fathers affirme that Christ dyed for vs the death of the body only we must not like children imagine they exclude the vnion operation or passion of the soule but in the death of his body and shedding of his blood they include all those afflictions and passions of the soule which naturally and necessarily follow paine and accompany death Christ suffering for vs a painefull death how could it be otherwise but such afflictions â—…nd passions of the soule as naturally and necessarily follow paine and accompâ—…ny deâ—…th should be found in the soule of Christ vnlesse we giue him an insensible flesh or impassiole soule both which are errors in the nature of Christ His flesh waâ—… sensible and his soule passible as ours is because they both were humane Paiâ—… then and death in my words are plainly referred to the body of Christ whose â—…lesh could not be wounded and blood shed as his was but naturally and necâ—…ssarily his â—…le must feele the paine thereof And yet if my words wâ—…e not limited to the paine of Châ—…sts body as indeed they are I see no inconueniencâ—… growing from them nor helpe for your fansie coÌ„tained in them Yet plaiâ—…er as fauoâ—…g your error I say 〈◊〉 paine griefe of body or mind be it neuer so great will commend Christs obedieâ—…ce patience And the punishment of sinne which proceedeth from the iusâ—…ice of God and 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 that Christ might and did beare Yea he suffered death with all painfâ—…â—…ut no sinfull 〈◊〉 or â—…onsequents How good a sempsteâ—… you are doth well appeaâ—… by your short cuâ—…ing and â—…ide 〈◊〉 â—…hing my words together The first sentence you take our of a Section of my 〈◊〉 wherein I purposely shew that not only the paines of hell but euen the feare oâ—… 〈◊〉 must â—…e farre from the soule of Christ. The suffering of hell paines in the soule of Christ I there refuse as not consâ—…t to the Christian 〈◊〉 but 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 to the 〈◊〉 â—…ertaintie sanctâ—…ie of Christs person 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 and 〈◊〉 with God Immediatly after the words which you bring I say 〈◊〉 Christ there could beâ—… no apprehension of hâ—…ll paines as due to him or determiâ—… for him but â—…e mâ—…st 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 â—…are that God would be inconstant or vâ—…st which are more then 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 Yea to these very words which you 〈◊〉 I â—…oyne this exception in the same 〈◊〉 but the sense of damnation or separatâ—…n from God or the feare or doubt thereof in Chrâ—…t as they quench faith and abolish grace so they dissolue the vnion and commuâ—…on of â—…ath 〈◊〉 natures or else breed a false persuasion and sinfull temptation in the soule of Christ. Who can be so sottish as not to see that my former words import Smart 〈◊〉 and gâ—…fe of body and mind which haue in them neither senâ—…e nor seare of hell paines that is of damnation or separation from God since no man is damned but vnto the pâ—…ines and place of hell and is first separated from God Wâ—…th as great discretion you fasten on an other sentence of mine where though 〈◊〉 â—…position be not generall but indefinite and hath two restraints euen from your 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 to wit in this liâ—…e where Christ suffeâ—…ed in â—… like to vs who aâ—… his 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 you throw off all forgetting what your selâ—…e obiected and whereto I 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 â—…nswere and suppose that here I fully concurre with your conâ—…ites But 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 your owne obiection and that will rightly guide my solution Your reason which you proudly boasted could not be refuâ—…ed by the wiâ—… of man â—…as as you call 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 from the lesâ—…e to the more Thus doe the members of Chriâ—… 〈◊〉 the terrors 〈◊〉 God and sorrowes of hâ—…ll therefore of necessitie Christ suffered the likâ—… Pâ—…ooue you by this Aâ—…gument that Christ aâ—…ter this life suffered the terrors of God and sorrowes of hell I doe you wrong to â—…pect it for it is open impietie so to thinke or say Then do you more wrong to imagine that I extended my words farther then to refell your reason As you spake of this life though you expressed it not so I replied that the puâ—…shment 〈◊〉 sâ—…nne which proceedeth from the iustice of God in this life and is no sinne Christ might and did beare but in no wiâ—…e those terrors and feares of consciâ—…nce which procâ—… from sinne and aâ—…gment sinne Now I pray you what allowance finde you here for your new erected hell or how force you my words to fit your deuises Terror of conscience and feare of hell could haue no
person onely but also in his members Then first you be slipt from your former resolutio deliuered in your Treatise which is no strange thing in your writings There your words were I take it to be cleare the Apostle HERE SPEAKETH NOT of the personall sufferings of Christ but of the godly You there denie that Paul speaketh of Christs personall sufferings but of the godly Here you affirme hee speaketh of both and least you should seeme to diuide them you adde Paul doth here ioyntly together vnderstand by Christs crosse the afflictions of the whole mysticall bodie both head and members A large and long Crosse of Christ that conteineth not onely his owne death and passion and whatsoeuer persecution he suffered in his life time but ioyntly together all the asflictions of the godly from the beginning of the world to the end I will not aske you where you find or how you proue Christs crosse to be so vsed in the Scriptures you that take vpon you to frame new Redemptions new hels and new heauens to your fansie will not sticke to frame a new Crosse of Christ without any Scripture howbeit know this all wise will beware of such expositions as haue neither example nor ground in the word of God For though our Sauiour sometimes said If any will come after me let him denie himselfe and take vp his Crosse and follow me yet he neuer said let him take vp my Crosse and follow mee and Paul who often vseth the word Crosse without addition many times the Crosse of Christ neuer taketh it in all his Epistles for the afflictions of the godly but onely for the spitefull and shamefull death which Christ in his owne person suffered on the Crosse. So that howsoeuer euery Christian may be said to take or beare his Crosse the Scriptures no where apply the Crosse of Christ but only to the force and fruit of Christes death suffered on the Crosse for vs and our saluation which is the sense that I affirme Saint Paul here intended But the markes afflictions and DYING OF THE LORD IESVS are vsed in this and other places of the Scripture to signifie the afflictions of the godly Those places haue speciall wordes adioyned which can not bee referred to the person of Christ but must of force belong to the speaker or sufferer As I beare IN MY BODY the markes of the Lord Iesus saith Paul and againe I fulfill the rest of the afflictions of Christ IN MY FLESH And so we beare about IN OUR BODIE the dying of the Lord Iesus Where these words in my bodie and in my flesh are proper to the speaker and no way deriueable to the person of Christ. Wherefore the markes afflictions and dying of the Lord must either import a resemblance to the personall sufferings of Christ or demonstrate the cause for which the Apostle suffered which was for Christs sake and in this is no difficultie to suffer affliction in like manner as Christ did or to suffer it for Christs cause But the Crosse of Christ whereof the Apostle speaketh in my Text was that at which the Iewes were so greatly offended for which the true preachers were so sharpely persecuted to which the false teachers ioyned circumcision for the better attayning of saluation in which the godly most reioyced and by which the faithfull were crucified to the world and the world to them and all these are proper to the personall death and crosse of Christ as he was the Sauiour of the world and not common to the afflictions of the Saints It was a question of doctrine not of manners for which the Apostle so much striued and the highest point of mans redemption not of mans perfection in which he so much gloried For touching other mens miseries how should Paul reioyce in them or how should he by them be crucified to the world and the world to him He had good cause to reioyce in the death of Christ though it were neuer so much maligned and pursued by the Iewes because it was the wisedome and power of God to saue all that beleeued and in his owne troubles for Christes quarrell hee might reioyce as hauing thereby fellowship with Christs afflictions and made conformable to his death but to reioyce at other mens troubles that hath no warrant in the word of God Reioyce saith Paul with them that reioyce and weepe with them that weepe Wee may take comfort and giue God thankes that the faithfull haue grace to endure persecution with patience and courage but that affliction befalleth them we may not be glad For that is to reioyce at other mens harmes which is repugnant to the rule of charitie Neither could Paul be crucified to the world by other mens troubles long before dead or then vnborne examples might encourage the weake but Paul was strong and proposed himselfe as a paterne of patience suffering persecution And therefore this haling into the Crosse of Christ the afflictions of all the godly that euer were or shall be as if the Apostle so highly reioyced in them and were crucified to the world by them is wholy against the haire and hath neither dependence nor coherence with the Apostles words Besides you doe not or will not vnderstand the maine point here in question betwixt the Apostle and those false teachers of the Iewes whom he reprooueth and refuteth in this Epistle You say indeede It is manifest the Apostle here Gala. 6. v. 12. reprooueth the false teachers for mingling the pure doctrine because they were loth to taste persecution but you neither tell vs what the Gospell was which they thus mingled with circumcision nor why they feared persecution nor from whom which things if you would haue specified as the Scriptures deliuer them you should soone haue perceiued how properly the Apostle addeth for the Crosse of Christ and how rightly I referred these words to the force and fruite of Christs death which is the summe and substance of the Gospell What the Gospel was which Paul preached appeareth plainly by his owne words We preach saith he Christ crucified vnto the Iewes a scandall or offence and vnto the Grecians foolishnesse but vnto them which are called both of the Iewes and Greekes Christ the power of God and wisedome of God to saue all that beleeue For Christ is made of God to vs righteousnesse redemption and sanctification to the end That he which reioyceth might reioyce in the Lord. In so much that I esteemed not to know any thing among you sayth Paul saue Iesus Christ and him crucified So that Christ crucified the Crosse of Christ the preaching of the Crosse and the Gospell of Iesu Christ are phrases of like force vsed by Paul for one and the selfe same word of trueth which is the doctrine of our saluation by the death and blood of Christ. Christ sent me saith he to preach THE GOSPEL not with wisedome of words least
like persons and cause were vndertaken by the Apostle You only are found Sir Discourser that to shew neither learning nor reading but a presumptious ouerweening of your owne witte will needs make the Reader beleeue I vnderstand not the Text. But let vs heare your pure conceit how currantly it carrieth with it the words and circumstances of the Text. They vrge you to be circumcised onely least they should suffer persecution for the crosse of Christ saith Paul of those false teachers which peruerted the truth of the Gospell among the Galathians by teaching circumcision and the righteousnesse of the Law to be necessarie to saluation How expound you these words of the Apostle he may say you be vnderstood to say that he would not suffer persecution for commending the afflictions and shame of good Christians for Christs sake You should say THEY would not suffer persecution vnlesse you put Paul into the number of false teachers but that might be the scape of your Printer Come to your owne ouersights First then Christs personall sufferings are here quite excluded for Christ I trust shall haue an other title with you then the name of a good Christian among the many and so the crosse of Christ in this place by your exposition doth both exclude and include the proper sufferings of Christ. For afore you said here Paul doth ioyntly together vnderstand by Christs crosse the afflictions of the whole mysticall body of Christ both head and members Secondly where euer read you in the Scriptures that the Iewes raized persecutions against any for commending the afflictions of the godly If it be a truth name vs the place and the persons if it be a dreame of yours keepe it to your selfe the Scriptures can expound themselues without your â—…ansies That the Iewes had a furious disdaine and hatred against the person of Christ and specially against the shame and reproch of his crosse and for his sake against all that preached or beleeued him to be the Messias so long before promised and his death to be the Redemption of tâ—…e world the Euangelistes and Apostles euery where in their writings giue full testimony Paul himselfe first persecuting the Christians vnto death and afterward as sharply pursued by the Iewes for the very same cause best knew what offence the Iewes tooke at the infamous death of Christ on the crosse and how egerly they were bent against all that durst professe the name of Christ and therefore could speake in this case out of his owne experience that not the commending of the afflictions of the godly but the preaching of Christs death on the crosse to be the saluation of the world was the point that so much irritated the Iewes to lay violent hands on the Christians Thirdly did circumcision hinder the commending of the afflictions of the godly the Apostles and first spreaders of the Gospell as also Paul himselfe were circumcised and yet the chiefest fauourers and encouragers of the afflicted Christians so that circumcision was no impediment to like and allow the afl ictions of the godly But as Paul saw himselfe to be most odious to the Iewes because they held opinion of him that he taught all men euery where against the people the Law and the Temple and indeed he boldly professed that in Christ Iesus neither circumcision auayled any thing nor vncircumcision and that they were no longer vnder the Law since Christ had redeemed both Iew and Gentile from the curse and bondage of the Law so he could not but discerne the drift of those false teachers who to flatter the Iewes and to claw fauour with the enimies of Christs crosse taught circumcision and the righteousnesse of the law to be necessary vnto saluation as if the death of Christ without them could profit vs nothing You doe therefore not expound but peruert the words of Paul which I tooke for my text when as he reprouing those false teachers whom he before confuted for adding circumcision and the iustification of the law to the death of Christ thereby to mitigate the malice of the Iewes conceaued against the crosse of Christ you turne the Apostles words from doctrine to manners from preaching to not commending from the death of Christ to the afflictions of Christians and so of the highest point of our Redemption and Saluation by the crosse of Christ you haue found out a cold kind of scant allowing the troubles of the Saints But the Fathers which I brought ouerthrow not your sense they rather iustifie it Whether Augustine Chrysostome Ierome and Bede whom I cited for the sense of this place do take the word Crosse in this very sentence for the personall suffeâ—…ings of Christ on the crosse which was my assertion I referre it to the censure of the Reader vpon the sight of their sayings which he may finde in the conclusion of my Sermons I must confesse mine eyes be not matches if they speake not directly to that purpose Howbeit you haue a speciall gift to make a short returne of all the Fathers with a nihil dicit when they speake against you Indeed you are out of your element when you talke of Fathers for you neither like their credits nor allow their iudgements as in processe we shall more fully shew For the present to satisfie those that be soberly minded and to let all men see to your shame that I tooke my text right though you fondly seeke by your silly conceits to impeach it marke I pray thee Christian Reader whether both elder and later Diuines doe not concurre with me in that sense of Christes crosse which I auouched to be in Pauls words Christ was crucified vnder Pontius Pilate This sayth Augustine we beleeue and we so beleeue it that we reioyce in it Be it farre from me sayth Paul to reioyce but in the crosse of Christ. Happily some man sayth Athanasius beholding the Lord and Sauiour to be condemned of Pilate and crucified of the Iewes will cast downe his head for shame But if we learne the cause why the Lord suffered wee shall cease to blush and rather reioyce as Paul did in the Lords crosse Ignatius in his Epistle to those at Tarsus where Paul was borne sayth mindfull of Paul Holde it for most certaine that the Lord Iesus was truely crucified for Paul sayth Be it farre from me to reioyce but in the crosse of our Lord Iesus and truly suffered and died Cyril Be it farre from me to reioyce but in the crosse of the Lord Iesus Paul sayth he reioyceth in the death of Christ he knew Christ therefore to be God and to haue suffered for vs in the flesh Theodoret thus expresseth Pauls meaning Ego autem propter solam salutarem crucem me iacto mihi placeo I onely boast my selfe on that crosse of Christ which bringeth saluation and therewith I content my selfe Theophylact vpon the same words of Paul Illi inquit circumcisionem hanc
Prophets not as wanting soueraigntie and sufficiencie in himselfe aboue all Prophets but leading them that knew him not to consider better of those Scriptures which they knew It is as true of Pauls writings as of the rest of the Apostles and Prophets which S. Augustine affirmeth De quorum scriptis quòd omni errore careant dubitare nefarium est Of whose writings to doubt whether they be free from all error is plaine wickednesse Neuerthelesse I well perceiue that all this great shew of cleauing to the Fathers iudgements is but coloured in you For in other points againe we see when they speake not to yoúr liking the case is altered I see in this booke where you forsake the ancient and learned Fathers that is as you speake in my case you conâ—…mne despise them The more vniust then and iniurious was your slander that I went about by the vse of one word which olde and new Diuines vsed in like sort before me to make the Fathers of equall authoritie with the Scriptures since now you can both obserue and obiect that euen in this booke which you impugne I say and do the contrarie And though I be farre from repenting or misliking any thing that I sayd touching the prerogatiue of the sacred Scriptures and their irrefragable authoritie against all the words and wits of men yet can I not chuse but note your negligence that marke neither what nor of whom I speake Had I brought Fathers in matters of faith against or without the Scriptures you had some colour to choake me with mine owne words but taking care as I did that in cases of faith the Scriptures should be plaine and perspicuous for my purpose before I cited them and the testimonies of the Fathers euident and concurrent with the Scriptures how doe I crosse any of those places which you quote out of my writings touching the authoritie and sufficiencie of the Scriptures in points of faith or what agreement hath your dissenting from the Scriptures and Fathers in the chiefest keyes of Christian religion with my leauing them in some expositions and positions not pertinent to the faith nor generally receiued of them all It is vanitie enough to dreame of contradictions where none are and as great infirmitie not to see that which lieth before your eyes but to pronounce that you know how wauering and slipperie I am for the most part therein when you neither consider nor conceiue what I say that is more than childish temeritie As I sayd so I say againe In Gods causes Gods booke must teach vs what to beleeue and what to professe and therefore what I reade in the word of God that I beleeue what I reade not that I doe not beleeue Yea I adde thereto S. Basils conclusion If all that is not of faith be sinne as the Apostle sayth and faith commeth by hearing and hearing by the word of God all that is without the Scripture inspired from God as not being of faith is sinne This confession I constantly holde and as in the first booke which you quote I directly and expresly defend that no point of faith should be beleeued without Scripture so in my Sermons I no where varie from it how slipperie soeuer your tongue be to tell a tale in stead of a trueth I doe reiect Austens opinion in three speciall points and diuers Fathers in two other cases and some of those things I affirme against all the Fathers and almost against all the Church and yet I bitterly reproue you for vsing the like libertie Doe I any where reiect S. Augustine or all the Fathers in any point of doctrine necessarie to our saluation as you do in the chiefest grounds of our redemption And when I let the Reader vnderstand that the reasons which some Fathers bring to fortifie their priuate opinions are not sufficient for to force consent to be giuen vnto them doe I call them fond absurd without reason or likelihood and paradoxes in nature as you do These two things I iustly reproue in you which I my selfe doe not fall into for all your fitning In the maine principles of Christian religion and our redemption you make the best learned Fathers ignorant of their Creed and Catechisme and when their expositions of the Scripture crosse your imaginations you Reuell against their Iudgements as void of sense and reason This doâ—… I not In the rule of faith I renounce not their maine consent nor vndoubted maximes least I conclude them or my selfe to erre in faith In other questions of lesâ—…e importance wherein they differ sometimes from ech other sometimes euen from themselues I let the Reader see their reasons and leaue him free to follow what he liketh or to suspend his iudgement if he find cause therefore This libertie I neuer take from you nor mislike it in you but when you pronounce all to be absurd fond and foolish that yeeld not to your fansie wherein you doe not onely proudly aduance your owne dreames as necessary Doctrines but reprochfully preiudice the freedome of others This difference is not my deuise the auncient consent of Godly Fathers saith Vincentius is with great care to be searched and followed of vs not in all the questions of the Diuine Law but onely or chiefly in the Rule of Faith Whether therefore the bodies of such as arose and came out of their graues after Christs resurrection returned againe to corruption or still kept the honor of immortalitie which was bestowed on them as also when Christ said to the theefe on the Crosse this day shalt thou be with me in Paradise whether Christ ment the presence of his humane soule or of his Diuine glory should be that day in Paradise and so whether the soules of the faithfull dâ—…parting this life goe straight to heauen or stay in a place appointed them of God till the day of iudgement and likewise whether Abrahams bosome were a receptacle for soules within the earth and neere to hell or far aboue the earth and lastly whether the loosing of Adam from hell by Christs descent thither which the whole Church almost seemed to hold by tradition freed onely the person of Adam from the place of hell or both him and his posteritie from all feare and danger of hell These be things that may be liked disliked or suspended without any manifest breach of faith and wherein Saint Austen probablely disputeth but determineth nothing for certaintie to be beleeued alwaies tempering his words in these cases with Ego quidem non video explicent qui possunt nondum intelligo nulla causa occurrit nondum muâ—… I see not how let them declare it that can as yet I vnderstand it not I conceaue presently no cause as yet I find it not cleere If I then laboured with respectiue words and other places of the same Fathers to shew wherein they doubted or dissented who but a light head and slipper tongue would call this
right sense as you be readie for a shewe to admit them this matter were ended S. Austen speaketh indeede of Christs voluntarie and powerfull dying but he doth not meane as you doe that Christ was onely willing to die as religious and godly men are which desire to depart this life but that he died quia voluit quando voluit quomodo voluit because he would when he would as hee would And giuing the reason of his speech out of the Scripture though you proudly and falsely say he hath no strength of reason by the Scripture he learnedly and truely pursueth it in this sort Where the spirit is farre better then the bodie and it is the death of the spirit to be forsaken of God as it is the death of the bodie to be forsaken of the spirit and this is the punishment in the death of the bodie that the spirit because it willingly forsooke God shall vnwillingly leaue the bodie neither can the spirit leaue the bodie when it will vnlesse it offer some violent death to the bodie the Soule or Spirit of Christ the mediatour did plainely prooue that he came to the death of his flesh by no punishment of sinne in that he forsooke not his flesh by any meanes against his wil but BECAVSE HE VVOVLD VVHEN Hâ—… VVOVLD AND AS HE VVOVLD Therefore he said I haue power to lay downe my soule and haue power to take it againe None taketh it from me but I lay it downe of my selfe And this those that were present GREATLY MARVAILED AT as the Gospell obserueth when after that loud voyce he presently gaue vp the ghost For they that were fastned to the tree were tormented with a long death Wherefore the two theeues had their legs broken that they might die But Christ was WONDRED AT because he was found dead which thing we read Pilate marueiled at when Christs bodie was asked of him to be buried There is more sound Diuinitie in this one Chapter of S. Austens then in both your Pamphlets though you pretend S. Austens wordes conclude nothing nor against you nor for me Where you may learne for it is fitter for you to be a scholler then a writer till you haue learned to leaue your wilfull humours and to giue â—…are vnto the sage and wise Fathers that were pillars of Christes Church many hundred yeeres before you first that for the punishment of sinne the death of the body was inflicted on all mankinde in which the soule should depart from her bodie against her will and not when she would nor as she would Secondly that the manner of Christs death was cleane contrary to ours he gaue vp his spirit of his owne accord and power when he would and as he would Thirdly his giuing vp the ghost so presently vpon his loude prayer was wondered at by the standers by and by Pilate himselfe when he heard of it Whether this conclude my purpose I leaue to the iudgement of the discreete Reader your no as it lightly commeth without cause so with me it goeth as lightly without regard But Austens words which I first quoted prooue not so much You take vpon you to refute first and last why skip you then that which is cited in the midst Grant Austens words to be true as indeede they are most true which are alleaged in the first place and my purpose is fully concluded Theâ—… prooue that no man can SO SLEEPE when he will as Christ died when he would that no man can so put off his vesture when he will as Christ put off his flesh when he would that no man can so leaue the place where he standeth at his will as Christ left his life when he would And if so great power appeared in him dying with what power shall we thinke he will come to iudge Where voluntary dying in Christ doth not onely import that he was content and willing to die as Paul was when he desired to be dissolued but that he left this life by separating his soule from his bodie when he would hauing at that present when he parted his soule from his bodie perfect memoriâ—… sense and speech and breathing out his soule of his owne accord with more facilitie and celeritie then we can lay off our garments or change the place in which we stand And from this admirable power by which he layd downe his soule and tooke it againe at his plâ—…asure Austen draweth a comparison to the exceeding greatneâ—… of that power with which he shall come to iudge the world With Austen ioyne all the Fathers of Christs Church that eaer spake of this matter and the best Diuines of latter ages confesse the same Athanasius 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 To haue power to lay downe his soule when he would and to take it againe this is not the propertie of men but it is the power of the Sonne of God For man dieth not by his owne power but by necessitiâ—… of nature and that against his will but Christ being God â—…ad it in his own power to separate himselfe from his bodie and to resume the same againe when he would Origen An non Dominus singulare quiddam prae omnibus qui in corpus aduenerint de seipso dicit doth not the Lord affirme a thing that was peculiar or singular to him aboue all that euer were in the flesh when he saith None taketh my soule from me but I lay it downe of my selfe and haue power to lay it downe and power to take it againe Let vs consider what he meaneth who left his bodie and departed from it without any way leading to death This neither Moses nor any of the Patriarkes Prophets or Apostles did say besides Iesus For if Christ had died as the theeues did that were crucified with him we could not haue said that he layd downe his soule of himselfe but after the maner of such as die But now Iesus crying with a strong voyce gaue vp the ghost and as a King left his bodie His power greatly appeared in this that at his owne free power and will leauing his bodie he died Gregorie Nyssene Memento Dominici dicti quid de seipso pronunciet is a quo pendet rerum omnium vis potentia quomodo ex plena summáque potestate ac non ex naturae necessitate animam à corpore seiungit Remember the Lords words what he pronounceth of himselfe of whom dependeth all power how with full and soueraigne power and not by necessitie of nature he seuered his soule from his bodie as he sayd None taketh my soule from me but I lay it downe of my selfe I haue power to lay it downe and power to take it againe Gregorie Nazianzene maketh the mother of Christ thus to speake vnto him after his death Comming I heard thy voice vnto thy father 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 and thou suddenly departedst this life as leauing it willingly Ierome With a faint voice or rather
neerer in soules to the right signification of bruizing than the mangling tearing and contusing of Christs body which he suffered from the violent rage of the Iewes Your other word of the very same nature keepe to your selfe When your proofs faile you in this you may not be suffered to roue at your pleasure and to reach after other words out of your own vnlearned skill to vouch they are of the very same nature Wherefore there is no cause why the coherence of Esaies wordes should be cut in sunder by your vnhandsome deuice of the peeces and powder of soules but as the first words in that sentence he was wounded for our transgressions and the last with his stripes we are healed are plainly referred to the punishments of Christes bodie so the middest he was bruized for our iniquities should haue the same relation and intention especially the Prophet foretelling the people what they should see in their Messias and how they should misiudge of him We sayth Esay did iudge him as plagued and smittâ—…n of God but he was wounded for our transgressions and bruized for our iniquities and with his stripes are we healed Neither is it any strange thing in the Scriptures to ioyne this very word which you talke so much of with wounding as with a word of the same nature and force For besides that Moses sayth None wounded with any bruizing or â—…utting of his secret parts shall enter into the Lords congregation Dauid saith to God Thou hast bruized Rahab as one that is wounded Where wounding bruizing are more properly lincked together as words of like force and effect than your breaking of soules into pieces or beating them to powder The verie same word is also vsed in the Scriptures to note the bruizing of mans bodie by sicknesse or of his estate by wrong and oppression Dauid in a grieuous sicknesse complaining that he felt nothing sound in his flesh nor any rest in his bones addeth I am weakned and bruized very much Bruize not the poore in the gate sayth Salomon that is oppresse not the poore in iudgement The children of the foolish shall be bruized that is oppressed in the gate and none shall deliuer them And when it is applied to the soule it may note that to be either wounded with sorrow oppressed with wrong or humbled with obedience but as for powder and pieces from which you would pull a iust proportion which nothing can answere but the paines of hell it is a sicke conceit of your owne braine it hath no deriuation either from the Prophets or Apostles words You did not meane that the soule might be properly broken in pieces but that thus it is neerer and better applied to the soule than to the bodie which was only pierced and boared thorow Then was your former opposition out of the Scripture very licentious and your conclusion as friuolous In that a bone of Christes was not broken you inferred that Esaies words He was broken for our sinnes could not be properly meant of Christes bodie flesh and bones as if there were no breaking of ioynts veines sinewes flesh or skinne but only of bones And yet as if the soule of Christ which is by nature altogether indiuisible might properly be broken in pieces you conclude the breaking of the bread can not properly belong to the bodie of Christ BVT TO THE SOVLE Had you denied the breaking of the bread properly to belong to either your words must haue beene It can belong properly neither to the bodie nor to the soule but you denie the one and auouch the other It can not belong properly to the body but to the soule Whether those words of yours doe not expresly import that the breaking of bread doth properly belong to the soule of Christ as to the trueth wherein they must be verified I leaue it to the iudgement of the discreet Reader Howbeit you denie not but broken applied to the soule of Christ is figuratiue And so you grant there was no cause you should take such exceptions as you did to the Apostles wordes This is my bodie which is broken for you For since it can not be verified of the soule but figuratiuely as you now confesse it may so be most iustly verified of Christes bodie without any sense of hell paines suffered in the soule of Christ. And if the consent of the English Latine and Greeke tongues may be trusted for the vse of a word breaking may properly be affirmed of Christes bodie which can not be of his soule for so much as his ioynts veines sinewes flesh and skinne were broken and torne in sunder though his bones were not And but that your fashion is to follow no man farder than your fansie leadeth you you might haue seene with what reuerence and conscience Master Beza that otherwise vpholdeth the sufferings of Christes soule referreth this word KLOMENON to the tearings and torments of Christes bodie being hereto led by the Apostles assertion By the word broken in Pauls wordes is designed the kindâ—… of Christes death because besides that the Lords bodie was torne bruized and euen broken with most bitter torments though his legges were not broken as the theeues were Christ breathing out his soule with a most violent death was as it were rent in two parts according to his humane Nature This word then hath a MARVELLOVS EXPRESSE SIGNIFICATION that the figure should fullie agree with the thing it selfe to wit that the breaking of the bread should represent to our minds the verie death of Christ. Peter Martyr hauing made your obiection that a bone of Christ was not broken resolueth But heereof I will not greatly contend for somuch as this breaking is by many Fathers referred to the body of Christ. With whom the wordes following doe make broken for you which indeed leadeth me to consent vnto them and to acknowledge a double breaking one in the bread another in the bodie of Christ. Bullinger sayth The bread is properlie sayd to be broken the bodie of man to be slaine howbeit in the Hebrue tongue to breake is to waste to kill and destroy And so the visible bread which in our sight is broken with our hands doth certeinly set before our eyes that bodie of Christ which was broken or done to death by vs or for vs. So Haymo q Christ himselfe brake the bread which he deliuered to his Disciples to shew that the breaking and suffering of his bodie came not but of his owne accord Which wordes he tooke out of Beda vpon the Gospels of Marke and Luke Before whom Prosper When the host is broken and the bloud is powred out into the mouthes of the faithfull what other thing is designed than the doing to death of the Lords bodie on the crosse and the shedding of the bloud out of his side And likewise Austen The table of thy spouse sayth he to the Church hath bread
that is whole quem fractum comminutum vidimus in Passione which wee saw broken and bruized in his Passion Of this bread the Lord himselfe sayd The bread which I will giue is my flesh And indeed whosoeuer shall duely consider the violence done to euerie part of Christes bodie before and on the crosse shall find a farre sharper and soâ—…er kind of breaking than if his legges had beene knapt in sunder as the theeues were and see iust cause why Paul compared the breaking of Christes bodie to the breaking of the bread though you idlely or falsely say it was ONELIE PIERCED or boared thorow For if by piercing you meane all kinde of violence that impressed any paine in the bodie then is piercing farre larger and grieuouser than your kinde of breaking which is of bones and more than such piercing Christes bodie needed not to answer the similitude of breaking the bread But if by piercing you meane boaring thorow as you seeme to expound it then did Christes bodie suffer manie violences as buffeting striking whipping piercing with thornes and such like which were no borings thorow And so there is either no weight or no truth in your words that Christes bodie was only pierced and boared thorow Vainly you charge me I know not how often against my expresse words that I call hell heauen and descending ascending but here it is no wrong to charge you with such an absurditie indeed who expresly do make that which you say is FIGVRATIVE to be a proper denomination If I charge you falslie when you come to the place conceale it not in the meanetime if there were any inconuenience in this as there is none it was the tracing of you in your owne termes For you argued that Christes bodie could not be sayd properly to be broken because no bone of his was broken and consequentlie it is your collection that if a bone which is but a part of Christes bodie had beene broken the bodie of Christ which is the whole might be sayd to haue beene properly broken Mine answer was that since Christs bodie had other parts besides his bones which by his owne words are conteined vnder the name of his flesh if any parts of his flesh were truelie broken the whole body might be sayd to be properlie broken as well in respect of his flesh as of his bones What absurditie find you in this that first proceeded not from your selfe But were the words mine owne when I speake as a Diuine of the proprietie of signification calling that proper which is not metaphoricall and affirme that as the sense of the word BROKEN was proper in a part of Christes bodie so must it likewise be proper and not metaphoricall in the whole because the whole which taketh his denomination from a part must retaine the same signification of the word which was verified in that part what boyes play is it in you to come from metaphors to other kinds of figures and to trifle with termes of proper and siguratiue when I opposed proper to metaphoricall and childâ—…shlie to charge me that I speake contraries with a breath As if one and the same speech might not be figuratiue in expressing the whole for a part which is Synecdoche and yet reteine his proper signification and be no metaphor Except therefore your Grammar be so great that euerie Synecdoche must needs be a metaphor and your Logicke so little that you can not distinguish a subiect from a predicate I see no cause but one and the same speech or proposition may be figuratiue in the subiect by vnderstanding the whole for a part and yet proper in the predicate by reason the sense thereof is not metaphoricall For these be figurae dictionum not orationum figures of words not of sentences As in our case whether Christes bodie were properly broken or no if the bodie which is the subiect in that proposition by Synecdoche be taken for a part then broken which is the predicate must the rather be properlie and not metaphoricallie affirmed of that part which was truelie broken how beit as I thinke since the proper sense of breaking was verified of all or the most parts of Christes bodie it must likewise be verified of the whole bodie But omit these Grammaticall and Logicall points wherewith manie Readers are not acquainted and come to the verie pitch of my words I doe not affirme that the whole for a part is a proper speech as you conceiue me but that the whole from a part may properly and not metaphorically take his denomination That a man speaketh writeth heareth seeth tasteth smelleth and such like are they proper or figuratiue speeches in your censure Proper I thinke and yet no part in mans bodie is the instrument of speech besides the tongue of writing besides the hand of hearing besides the care of seeing besides the eye of tasting besides the mouth of smelling besides the nose Infinite are the actions of the bodie naturallie executed by certaine parts as eating drinking sleeping spetting coughing weeping and other such which no man in his right wits will affirme to be figuratiue actions or speeches in man and yet in them all a part doth denominate the whole In the vertues and vices of the mind as for men to be wise sober diligent patient liberall learned mindfull watchfull and such like or the contrarie shall we say that men be figuratiuely and not properly and truely such because these are gifts of the minde and not of the bodie The verie essentiall parts of man as vnderstanding will reason sense and appetite shall they likewise make figuratiue speeches in men because none of them are common to all the parts and powers of bodie and soule but in euerie of them a part doth denominate the whole It may be you will not greatlie sticke to turne Porphyries predicables and Aristotles predicaments into Mosellanes tropes and make figures of them all what say you then to the branches of Christian faith and trueth are they also figuratiue and improper speeches That Christ is the sonne of God and the sonne of Dauid that he was borne of a virgine and circumcised in the eight day that he fasted hungred and was tempted that he eat and slept wept and waxed weary that he was buffeted whipped and crucified that he died for our sinnes and rose for our righteousnesse that he ascended into heauen and thence shall come to iudge the quicke and the dead and an infinite number of the like are all these figuratiue speeches in your conceit I hope you be not so fastened to figures that you will make vs a figuratiue faith and a figuratiue Sauiour and yet in all these a part doth denominate the whole Your eyes therefore were somewhat close or your wits wandering when you could not see the difference betwixt taking the whole for a part and denominating the whole by a part which is so common and constant both in Diuinitie and Philosophie that in all naturall
and necessarie actions passions and proprieties the whole receiueth his attribute from a part And so my words rest sound and true both in humane reason and in holie Scripture notwithstanding your vaine proclamation of so cleere and expresse an absurditie in them But you must be borne with your humor is so sharpe and your head so shallow that your left hand knoweth not what your right sâ—…ibleth Your despising the Ecclesiasticall historie as a fable is a sparke of your pride from which few ancient writers are free howbeit the Scriptures are plaine enough for my purpose to proue that Christs body was truely broken They witnesse that the Iewes buffeted him with their sistes and smote him with their Sâ—…rieants staues thar Pilate scourged him that the souldiers platted a crowne of thornes on his head and then did beate him on the head with reedes and roddes that his crucifiers digged his hands and seete and pulled all his bones out of ioynt and that in this plight the waight of his body hung on the crosse three houres by the wounds of his hands feete and when he was dead his side was pearced with a speare besides the mockes wrongs and taunts that were offered him on euery side and yet all this you say is not in any sense proportionable to the proprietie of the word KLO'MENON and MEDVCCA You prate of PROPRIETIES and proportions to no end but to colour your absurdities and presumptions What Christian Reader will endure you to say that the Apostle in applying the word KLO'MENON to the body of Christ had neither proprietie nor proportion to the right sense of the word If he did not speake properly in those words which is broken for you as I thinke he did yet at least he must speake metaphorically and figuratiuely and so keepe a resemblance and proportion to the originall sense of the word except your wisedome will auouch that the holy Ghost ignorantly and vnaduisedly abuseth the word Which if you confesse of your selfe I will easily beleeue because you neither know what you affirme nor what you deny For where afore you said in plaine words the breaking of the bread CAN NOT PROPERLY BELONG BVT TO THE SOVLE of Christ Now you graunt it properly belongeth neither to body nor to soule onely from powder and peeces you take a iust and full proportion in the soule to the proper sense of those words You haue me in iealousie that I thinke you to be a senslesse foole indeed I thinke you to be more conceited then learned and a great deale more shifting then sound though in this booke you haue sought the helpe of all your friends to maintaine the most of your matters with as it were but if you reiect the Apostles words as wanting both proprietie and proportion except your hell paines be admitted and make out iust and full proportions from powder and peeces vnto the soule of Christ I doubt your Reader will thinke these be senslesse and foolish Toyes If I would play with proportions as you doe I neede not depart from the words of the holy Ghost to find a fairer resemblance to the proper sense of those words in the body of Christ crucified then you make any All my bones are sundered saith Dauid in the person of Christ and thou hast brought me into the dust of death Of which and all that went before Eusebius saith what else doe all these signifie but the condition of Christs dead body Wherefore he presently addeth and into the dust of death thou hast brought me Here in expresse words is the dust of death to which Christs body was brought and besides all his bones were sundered Now to be sundered is euidently to be diuided and that must be with parts or peeces the naturall coherence wherewith the bones were formerly ioyned being losed and dissolued though one part be not seuered from the other Whether therefore the word broken be properly or figuratiuely taken I see no cause why the Apostles words may not in either sense be fully true For if the Ioynts vaines sinewes flesh and skinne of Christs body from head to foote were properly straeined rent and torne besides the seuering of his soule from his body then was his body truely broken If by breaking we figuratiuely meane as others doe the affliction and anguish of Christs body then as no part was free from it so no increase of bodily paine in this life could be added to his sufferings and so in either respect your hell paines haue their pasport till you find some fitter place and better proofe for them then either KLO'MENON or MEDVCCA The next point you vndertake is whether the blood of Christ be the full Redemption as well of our bodies as of our Soules in this life Wherein because the word Redemption is diuersly taken in the Scriptures as for deliuerance sometimes from sinne sometimes from death sometimes from the power and feare of either and all the promises of God we haue now in hope though not some of them indeed till the generall resurrection you shew your selfe cunning in carping at words which you labour to turne and wind euery way But before you come to it you make a short and swift answere to all the places of Scripture which I produce touching the force and effects of Christs blood least you should haue any neede to trouble your selfe hereafter about any of them Where as your manner is throughout your booke you first chaunge the question with adding your witlesse and senslesse termes of meere single and simple to my words and then without any more adoe Your aduised and resolute answere to all is this there is not one text any where that hath any meaning of my strange conceite It were reason a man would thinke you tooke the paines to impugne my words and not to presume you know my meaning against my words and so to frame it after your fashion with your new found phrases which I abhor as much as I doe your new found faith You will prooue the blood of our Sauiour is the true price of our Redemption and that as well of our soules as of our bodies Who denieth this as your words runne It is happie yet that my words runne well whatsoeuer my conceite be Now if I meane no more then I speake and the sacred Scriptures fully concurre with that which I speake then haue I both the word of God to warrant that I teach and besides your owne confession that as I speake it it is truth But you know I meane that no more but the shedding of Christs blood ONLY AND MEERELY is the iust and full satisfaction of all our sinnes What my meaning is you cannot be ignorant I haue often declared it not here only but in my Sermons and conclusion also as I haue formerly shewed and you haue plainely confessed I will once more repeate your
his minde as by his sense and you nothing the neerer to your purpose of his suffering hell paines in mind from the immediate hand of God but to let the Reader see how you catch at Fathers for an aduantage without any shew of their words and when they make against you you reiect with disdaine the whole aray of them Your diuiding of man into his parts and your resolutions thereupon are more absurd and haue neither trueth learning nor common vnderstanding in them Of man to shew your exactnesse you make these partes â—…e bodie the externall sensitiue part of the soule the whole spirit and vnderstanding also You name here the bodie the soule and the spirit but so vntowardly that neither your selfe nor any man els can tell how to make them agree Hath the soule if you will needes distinguish it from the spirit no moe parts or powers to suffer or to be saued but the externall sensitiue part will you take the soule to be all one with the spirit and so make the whole spirit as much as the whole soule But the Apostle reckoneth the whole spirit the soule and the bodie whose words you would seeme to follow and so seuereth the soule from the spirit But not by the externall sensitiue part as you doe Againe why adde you the vnderstanding also after the whole spirit As if it were no part thereof but a different thing from the spirit But this is your skill when you come to any matter of importance to wrap it in ambiguous and confused termes that it shall be more masterie to vnderstand you then to refute you And how commeth it about by your Philosophie that the sufferings of the soule by and from the body pierce no farder then into the externall senses of the soule Doe the sufferings of the body offend and afflict the powers onely or the substance also of the soule Is not the very substance of the Soule passible and punishable as well by the powers of sense as by the affections and vnderstanding The actions passions powers and faculties of the soule are they not all grounded on and seated in the substance of the soule so that from thence all the actions thereof must proceed therein all the passions thereof must be receiued and thereon all the faculties thereof depend Are you so learned in logick that you will bring vs passions without a subiect or powers and faculties without a substance Whether it be therefore by the vnderstanding will affections or sense that the soule suffereth the substance thereof suffereth by those powers and meanes and not any part thereof for so much as the substance of the soule is not diuisible into parts as being a spirit though the powers and faculties thereof may be distinguished and called parts Then is it a strange position of yours that the sensitiue part suffereth or that the vnderstanding suffereth and not the soule by either of them when indeed the substance of the soule suffereth by or from her power or faculties of sense vnderstanding and will which are the meanes that God hath made to impresse paine on the soule For the vnderstanding which you call the mind is no more a seuerall substance in the soule then the power of sense is and the soule not onely discerneth particular things by her facultie of sense as she doth consequent and generall things by hir facultie of reason but by the eares and eyes she heareth the word and beholdeth the works of God whence commeth information of faith and truth Of the vnderstanding Epiphanius saith 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 c. I thinke not our mind to be any substance of it selfe neither hath any of the children of the Church so thought but to be an effectuall power or operation giuen of God and abiding in vs. Of the sense Tertullian saith Anima perinde per corpus corporalia sentit quemadmodum per animam incorporalia intelligit The soule perceiueth corporall things by the sense euen as she doth vnderstand incorporall things by the mind And shewing how both those powers depend on the soule he addeth Sit nunc potior sensu intellectus dummodo ipse propria vis animae quod sensus Let the vnderstanding excell the sense so that it be a proper facultie of the Soule as the sense is Of the passions of Christs Soule Fulgentius writeth Nunc ostendendum nobis est passionem tristitiae maeroris taedij timoris ad animae substantiam propriè pertinere Now must we shew that the passion of sorrow heauinesse and loathing of hart and feare which our Sauiour felt pertaine properly to the substance of the soule And at the length concluding that the flesh of it selfe can neither haue life nor sense nor sorrow nor desire nor feare nor mourning he saith Haec ergo cuncta in anima quam susceperat pertulit Christus vt veram totamque in se cum suis infirmitatibus hominis demonstraret accepti substantiam All these passions Christ endured in his soule which he tooke that he might shew in himselfe THE TRVE AND VVHOLE SVBSTANCE of a man with his infirmities The purpose for which you pretend so many Fathers is as idle as all the rest for the Soule of Christ might suffer by her senses by her affections by her vnderstanding and will and yet not suffer the paines of hell nor the death of the soule which is your doctrine Though therefore the Fathers doe say that the soule of Christ suffered in his death and passion which is a thing I neuer doubted of much lesse called in question yet neither auouch they it suffered your hell paines neither from the immediate hand of God as your deuice leadeth which things are as strange to them as those they neuer heard of By the Fathers Christ suffered exactly all and whatsoeuer sorrowes and paines which we should haue suffered as well spirituall as corporall as well in all the powers of the soule subiect to suffering as in that which suffered alwaies with and from the body This if you would prooue by the Fathers themselues and not by your false translating and misapplying their words which otherwise haue no such thing you said somewhat You haue raked together some places alleaged formerly by me or formerly refuted by me and out of them you would make fresh shewes if you could tell how There is onely one place of Cyrill taken out of my Sermons by you as you doe the rest of your authorities which hath generall termes apt to be wrested by you and forced against the Authors minde which you forget not to straine to the vttermost the rest are miserably racked without cause or colour from the Fathers mindes and wordes Cyrill saith Omnia Christus perpessus est vt nos ab omnibus liberaret Christ suffered all things that he might free vs from all where the word ALL is found which you make the ground of all your descant
but thereby it plainly appeareth you take not the paines to reade the Fathers words in the places where they are written but rashly catch at them to serue your turne without all respect to the antecedents or consequents which would declare the writers meaning In that Chapter whence these words are taken Cyrill treateth not of the punishments which Christ suffered for our sinnes but of the passions and infirmities of our nature ALL VVHICH Christ receaued and suffered to rise in himselfe that they might be repressed by him and our nature reformed And therefore in those words Christ suffered all to free vs from all Cyrill euidently meaneth all the naturall infirmities and passions of our flesh And those are his expresse words twice or thrice in that Chapter When thou hearest saith he that Christ wept feared and sorrowed acknowledge him to be a true man and ascribe these things to the nature of man For Christ tooke a mortall bodie subiect to all the passions of our nature sinne alwaies excepted And againe How commeth it to passe that these men know not that all these things must be applied to mans nature in Christ which he truely tooke vnto him with all the passions thereof but still without sinne And the very recollection of the words which you stand on conuinceth Cyrill spake of the naturall passions and infirmities of our flesh For when he had exemplified his generall wordes Christ suffered all to free vs from all by death feare and sorrow which are naturall to our corrupt condition he concludeth it a singulas passiones carnis fuisse in Christo absque peccato commotas inuenies vt commotae vincerentur natura nostra reformaretur ad melius AND LIKEVVISE ALL THE PASSIONS or affections of our flesh shalt thou finde mooued in Christ but without sinne that being mooued they might be repressed and our nature reformed to the better What is this to hell paines which I trow are no naturall infirmities or affections in man or to the proper sufferings of the soule which you would hence establish since heere is no mention but of the naturall infirmities and affections of the flesh which Cyrill calleth the passions therof as both Diuines and Philosophers doe ' Thus I take Bernards meaning to be when he saith Christ spared not himselfe who knoweth how to spare his Your taking may soone shew you to be a wilfull mistaker but it concludeth nothing for your cause Doth Bernard say that Christ suffered hell paines and therein spared not himselfe you would faine haue him say so but he is as farre from it as you are neere it Bernard in that Chapter which you cite but neuer saw for you went no farder for all your authorities then my sermons speaketh of the sixt and seuenth time Christ shedde his blood for vs and when he commeth to the piercing of Christs hands and his feete with spikes of iron to fasten him to the crosse wondering at Christes patience and loue towards vs that endured such things for vs he saith God which either shortneth lightneth or taketh from his seruants the force of their torments did in nothing ease vnto himselfe the wine-presse of his passion he spared not himselfe that knoweth how to spare his Doth this conclude that Christ suffered the paines of hell or that he shedde his blood vnto death for vs not sparing himselfe from that or in that which he suffered though it were painfull and greeuous to him But I my selfe confesse that Christ suffered and endured all to the vttermost with exact obedience and patience Euen as Bernard fauoured your vntoward fansies and said nothing for them so doe I but doe either Bernards words or mine import that Christ suffered all which else we should haue suffered as you enterlace Cyrils words to make them sound somewhat to your purpose are you so seely that you can not or so slie that you will not see the plaine seames of humane speech If a man should saie you affirme all things boldly you prooue all things weakely you translate al thinges corruptly Doe his words imply that you translate Euclide and Aristotle that you prooue the roundnesse of the earth and the bignesse of the Sunne or that you affirme the sea burneth and the Moone melteth Is it not the vsuall course of al speech and speakers when they expresse how things are done to restraine the word all with a relation to the same person and action whereof they spake as you affirme all things which you affirme boldly you prooue all that you prooue weakely and you translate all whatsoeuer you translate corruptly Doth not the Scripture obserue the like The people said of Christ he hath done all things well Will you inferre that Christ made ships built Towers cast Lead and did whatsoeuer because he did all things well or did they intend that whatsoeuer he did he did it well The true light saith Saint Iohn lightneth euerie man that commeth into the world Where if you take all men without exception you plant a palpable error vpon Saint Iohns words if you restraine them to all that are lightned his speech is a manifest trueth in Christ and an excellent honour to Christ. So said I of Christ that he suffered all that he suffered with exact obedience and patience not expressing there what he suffered but how he suffered to wit obediently and patiently Which wordes of mine giue you no great cause of aduantage if you looke well vnto them and abuse them not after your idle maner But such poore shifts you are forced to seeke to set some colour on your cause which otherwise would bewray it selfe to want all good groundes and proofes As you deale with me so you doe with Tertullian Ambrose Ierom Cyprian and Cyrill whose words partly you mistranslate partly you misconster and build vpon them what best pleaseth your selfe without any precedence or sequence of their text Tertullian saith sic reliquit dum non parcit So God left his Sonne whiles he spared him not If this make for you why quote you not the Apostle Paul as one of your partners who spake the word before Tertullian and whom Tertullian citeth by name for that word God spared not his owne Sonne saith Paul but deliuered him for vs all This place you baulked because it expoundeth Gods not sparing his Sonne by deliuering him for God spared not his Sonne but deliuered him that is God did not spare him from deliuering and also for that it excludeth your imagination of Gods immediate hand tormenting the soule of his Sonne with the substance of hell paines For if God deliuered his Sonne for vs all he deliuered him to others and not to himselfe and consequently your dreame of Gods immediate hand inflicting hell paines on the soule of his Sonne is against the Apostles words God deliuered his Sonne Which Christ himselfe expoundeth very often in the Gospel saying The Sonne of man shal
be deliuered into the hands of men and they shall kill him And againe The Sonne of man shall be deliuered to be crucified and immediately before his apprehension Behold the houre is come the Sonne of man is deliuered into the hands of sinners This deliuering of Christ into the hands of men to be crucified was the not sparing him which the Apostle meant and was that for saking which Christ testified on the Crosse as Tertullian thinketh Filium dereliquit dum hominem eius tradit in mortem Hoc Apostolus sensit scribens si pater Filio non pepercit Sic reliquit dum non parcit sic reliquit dum tradit Ceterum non reliquit pater filium in cuius manibus Filius spiritum suum posuit Denique posuit statim obijt Spiritu enim manente in carne caro omnino mori non potest Ita relinqui á patre mori fuit filio God left or forsooke his Sonne as Christ complained on the Crosse whiles he deliuered his humane nature vnto death This the Apostle meant when he wrote if God spared not his Sonne So God left him whiles he spared him not so God left him whiles he deliuered him Otherwise the Father forsooke not the Sonne into whose hands the Sonne commended his spirit He laide it downe and presently died For while the spirit abideth in the flesh the flesh can not die at all Then to bee left of the Father was as much in the Sonne as to die Here are Tertullians words in order as they stand Where first he maketh the Sonne to die when hee laide downe his soule into his Fathers hands This death by which the soule of Christ departed from his body was that deliuering that not sparing which Paul meant and that forsaking which Christ spake of on the crosse What finde you here for the paines of Hell or for the proper sufferings of the soule You may peruert any mans words if you will but of them selues these are very coherent and euident In Ambrose you finde more hold He saith Minus contulerat mihi nisimeum suscepisset affectum Christ had done lesse for me if hee had not beene altogether affected as I should haue beene Though you be no good concluder yet are you a notable translatour For you can turne the English not onely cleane from but quite against the Latine Where Ambrose saith Christ had done lesse for mee if taking my nature vnto him hee had not also taken my naturall affection vnto him as feare sorrow and such like you misconster affection for punishment and mine that is naturally mine for that which I should haue suffered in hell and adding the word altogether of your owne you make Ambrose say that Christ was altogether affected that is punished in soule as I should haue beene in hell if I had not bene redeemed But by what Grammar doth affectus signifie hell paines Feare griefe and sorrow are naturall affections in all men and passions of the soule they signifie not in their owne nature the torments of the damned How shall we know this to bee Ambrose meaning Hee that hath but halfe an eye may see by that whole Chapter the roote of this sorrow to bee the infirmitie of our nature in Christ and the cause thereof to be his compassion and pitie had of vs and for vs. The next words to those which you bring are Ergo pro me doluit qui pro se nihil habuit quod doleret And presently taedio meae infirmitatis afficitur Christ therefore sorrowed for me who had nothing in him selfe for which he should sorrow he is affected with the tediousnesse of my infirmitie The tediousnesse of our infirmitie affected him not the torments of hell suffered in his owne soule Neque speciem incarnationis suscepit sed veritatem Debuit ergo dolorem suscipere vt vinceret tristitiam non excluderet Christ tooke vpon him not the shew but the trueth of our flesh Hee was therefore to feele griefe as a consequent to our nature that he might ouercome sorrow and not exclude it Tristis est non ipse sed anima Suscepit enim animam meam suscepit corpus meum Anima obnoxia passionibus Christ was sorrowfull not in person but in soule For he tooke vnto him my soule and my body Now the soule it is that is subiect to passions Is hell with you of late become a naturall infirmitie and affection that wheresoeuer you reade either of these words you streight inferre the paines of hell The causes of Christes sorrow will put all out of doubt and are plainely recited by Ambrose in the ende of this Chapter though stifly reiected by you because they sort not with your conceits Tristis videbatur tristis erat non pro sua passione sed pro nostra dispersione Christ seemed sorrowfull and indeede was sorrowfull not for his owne suffering but for our dispersing You say Christs sorrow was for the suffering of hell paines in his soule Ambrose saith in expresse words Christ sorrowed not for his owne suffering which of you twaine shall wee thinke best vnderstoode Ambrose meaning him selfe or you Christ sorowed saith Ambrose for our dispersion he sorrowed because he left vs orphanes he sorrowed for his persecutors All these occasions of sorrow in Christ at the time of his passion mentioned by Ambrose you vtterly disauerre and in spite of Ambrose teeth you will haue the infirmitie and affection of mans nature in Christ to signifie hell Yet Ierom shall helpe at a neede who saith That which we should haue borne for our sinnes the same Christ suffered for vs. You might haue done well to haue put quicquid for quod as one of your fellowes hath done alleaging this place that where Ierom would not say Christ suffered for vs whatsoeuer we should haue suffered your selues may speake it in his name Neither is it so strange a thing with you to translate all for some In the very next Page before citing Ambrose words hoc in se obtulit Christus quod induit Christ offered that in him selfe which he tooke of vs you render it Christ offered in sacrifice ALL that which he assumed which translation is euidently false whatsoeuer the illation be This place of Ierom I haue already answered in the conclusion of my Sermons and but that the booke happely will not alwaies be at hand I would spend no moe words therein The particular can not hurt me if it be simply graunted and the generall is not affirmed by Ierom. Howbeit Ierom in plaine speech presently expresseth what he ment Christ suffered for vs. By this saith he it is manifest that as Christs body whipt and torne bare the printes of the stripes and wrongs so his soule truely sorrowed for vs. What neede we any other exposition then his owne that Christ suffered for vs smart of body and griefe of minde which were due to vs in this world
superfluous That you will say is the proper and strict signification of the word satisfie but you take it more largely For the abuse of words I will not greatly striue so you build thereon no impieties howbeit when I say that nothing might satisfie for sinne but death I take satisfaction properly for the last and full payment after which no more was due for sinne and that apparantly by the Scriptures was the death of Christ before which the rest was not sufficient and after which no more was required by the righteous will and counsell of God So that although the obedience and patience of Christ all his life long did tend to satisfaction and made way for satisfaction as his hunger wearinesse pouertie and such like yet none of these did satisfie for sinne or acquite vs from sinne by the verdict of the holy Scripture but Christ after all these must yeeld himselfe to suffer that kind of death which the iustice of God should appoint and ordaine before we could be freed from our sinnes His blood you thinke did wash vs from all our sinnes Because his blood was shed for vs euen vnto death therefore his bloodshed expresseth the manner of his death as likewise his apprehension buffeting reproches and shame which the Scripture describeth in the order of his death and therefore compriseth vnder the name of his death For by Christes death as I haue often said the Scripture meaneth that kind of death in all respects and circumstances which the Euangelists in their writings report Who will grant in proper speech that those are his death The name of Christs death in the Scriptures containeth all those things which were coincident and concurrent to that death which Christ died for our sinnes according to the Scriptures Neither shall we neede your figure Synecdoche by a part of Christs sufferings to vnderstand all that he felt or suffered from his mothers wombe that is a loose deuise of yours to make any thing of euery thing and so to confound the Scriptures that no man shall knowe either what to beleeue or what to beware For where S. Iohn saith the blood of Christ doth clense vs from all our sinnes by your Synecdoche you imagine that the wine which he dranke at his last Supper the water wherewith he washed his disciples feete the teares which he shed for Lazarus death the iourney which he tooke to Galilee the sleepe which he fetched in the ship the hunger which he sustained in the wildernesse and what not should doe the like since euery thing that befell our Sauiour small or great did satisfie for sinnes as well as his death and passion What els is this but to mayme and mangle the Scriptures which name the blood of Christ to be the price of our redemption and his death the meane of our reconciliation if euerie thing that Christ did or endured shall be of the same force and weight to satisfie for sinne that his bloud and death were His bloud you will say is not his death The shedding of his bloud vnto death which the Scripture intendeth by his bloud is a plaine description of his death This is my bloud sayd he which is shed for many for the remission of sinnes And the rest which were appendants to his death expresse the maner of his death which the wisdome and iustice of God would haue to be full of violence iniurie reproch contempt shame and paine All which as they note the maner of his death so are they inclosed by the Scriptures in the name of his death and that I trust more properly being parts thereof than the naturall infirmities of his bodie as sleepe hunger and wearinesse or the voluntarie euents of his life as the rest of his actions and passions long before the houre came that he should be deliuered into the hands of sinfull men Why may not the proper sufferings of Christs Soule be as well admitted into the worke of Christs satisfaction although his SOVLE COVLD NOT PROPERLY DIE The sufferings of Christs Soule at the time of his death which the Scriptures mention we easily admit into the worke of his satisfaction for sinne but your satis-fiction of hell paines and of the death of Christs Soule we doe not admit because the holy Ghost so diligently describing the whole order and manner of Christs sufferings when he went to his death teacheth no such thing as you falsely collect from certaine words of his and chiefly from his bloody sweate whereof not knowing precisely the cause you surmise what best pleaseth your humor without all warrant of the word of God Prooue therefore by the Scriptures and not by your owne ghesses that Christs Soule suffered these things from the immediate hand of God which you suppose and we shall soone find a place for them in the worke of Christs satisfaction for sinne Till then giue me leaue to expound the Scriptures by themselues and not by your vnioynted and vntidie Commentaries confounding Christs life and death nature and will affections and punishments satisfaction and merits as if they were not different parts of our saluation to take our nature vpon him to worke all righteousnes in our names to suffer a shamefull and painfull death for our sinnes and to obtaine all spirituall and celestiall graces and comforts here and in heauen for vs. The first sinne committed by Adam and our continuall treading in his steps rest yet vndiscussed wherein we should not neede many words if you could or at least would rightly conceaue what is said and not ignorantly or purposely mistake and measure all things by your hastie humor To prooue that Christ must satisfie for sinne by the proper sufferings of his Soule and not with or by his body you brought this reason in your Treatise Whereby Adam first did and we euer since doe most properly commit sinne by the same the second Adam Christ hath made satisfaction for our sinnes But Adam first did and we euer since doe most properly commit sinne in our Soules our bodies being but the Instrument of the Soule and following the Soules direction and will Therefore Christ in his Soule most properly made satisfaction for vs In my Conclusion to your obiections I first denyed your Maior or former proposition For though the Soule of Adam as also our Soules quickly might and worthily did die for sinne and by sinne wherein they were the principall agents yet the Soule of Christ by no warrant of holy Scripture did or could die the death of Spirits and so could make no satisction for sin by her death Now by the Scriptures without death there was no satisfaction for sin and therefore the soule of Christ must satisfie for sinne by the death of her body not by any death proper to her selfe And so much the Scriptures auouch teaching vs that we haue redemption euen the remission of sinnes through his blood are reconciled to God
Our Sauiour knew no more waies when he said to Peter Flesh and blood hath not reuealed it vnto thee but my Father which is in Heauen Where men that are teachers or learners are called flesh and blood because without the Body the Soule learneth nothing in this life but what is reuealed vnto it by the spirit of God Saint Iohn knew as few That saith he which we haue seene and heard declare we vnto you that you also may haue fellowship with vs. This a man would thinke were plaine enough that all knowledge must be either naturally infused in vs as it was in Angels or collected of vs by sense and experience or reuealed to vs from God For if we be borne voide of all knowledge as the Scripture expresly testifieth we know not at first our right hand from our left then must we get it by meanes And meanes to come by the knowledge of particular and externall things what can you assigne besides the sense If therefore the Heathen saw this and you see it not you prooue your selfe to haue lesse vnderstanding then the Heathen The Soule indeede by the power of vnderstanding and reason wherewith she is endued of God doth in continuance obserue discerne and compare the agreements and contrarieties of things as also their causes and consequents and what of her selfe she can not perceaue she learneth with more ease of others who are longer and better acquainted therewith and whose phantasiue spirits are thinner and quicker to pearce into the depth of things The differences then and defects of mens wits doe cleerele witnesse that not onely the instruments of sense but the Imaginatiue spirits must concurre to attaine and encrease knowledge in this life vnlesse God inspire the Hart aboue nature which he doth when and where pleaseth him These may be the meanes of thinking and yet not the causes or occasions of mis-thinking The naturall meanes of thinking must still be the meanes of well and ill thinking they varie not howsoeuer the minde varie in her resolutions What or how manie may be the causes or occasions of ill thoughts maketh nothing to this question it sufficeth for my purpose to make the bodie liable to the punishment of euery sinne that the parts powers or spirits of the Body haue any communion with the suggesting admitting or performing of ech sinne For in all sinne not onely the Doers but the leaders directors aduisers helpers consenters allowers and reioycers are in their degree partners with the principall Yea all the instruments are iustly detested where the crime is worthily condemned But whence ill thinking commeth can you tell A man may thinke and speake of all the errors and heresies in the world and yet not sinne It is the liking and embracing of them that maketh the offence and not thinking or reasoning of them The will then causeth thoughts to be good or euill the vnderstanding doth not Now the will must haue somewhat to lead it which is either the show of truth or the loue of some other thing which doth preiudice the truth There is no truth but in the word of God which we must either heare or read before we can apprehend If we stop our eares against the word of God shall not that wilfull deafenesse of ours turne to the deserued destruction of Body and Soule If we open our eares but not our harts to the voice of God doth not the loue of some earthly good or feare of some temporall harme close our harts against the truth Both which as well loue as feare come from the bodily senses and affections and make their manifest impression on the hart leading the will to consent to their law For where all ill thoughts are against veritie charitie or temperance men are ledde from the truth by commoditie glory soueraigntie or credulitie as Austen obserueth whereto if we put ease enuie and luxurie we see the causes of all ill thoughts which haue no place in the Soule apart from the Body The proper prouocations and pleasures of sinne are often times not outward at all but the mâ—…ere peruersitie and malignitie of our euill mind is vsually the very cause of ill thoughts and ill determinations You would say some what if you could tell how Doth any thing properly prouoke it selfe Doth the fire prouoke it selfe to burne or the Sunne prouoke him selfe to shine Lamenesse maketh a creeple to halt it prouoketh him not And so doth pitch defile the hands and not prouoke them to fowlenesse The next and necessarie causes of things are called efficients and not provocations So that will you nill you prouocations are externall either to the person or to the part that is the principall or speciall Agent The Apostle teacheth you how to vse the word properly when he saith 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 prouoking one an other The very composition of the word proueth as much 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 or prouocare is first to call or vrge a man to any thing before he him selfe be willing Then the naturall and inward corruption of the minde is no prouocation but the cause efâ—…cient of ill thoughts and if there be any prouocations they must be externall to the part or partie prouoked And did you know the principles of learning or grounds of nature you would soone perceaue that as well the will of man as his desire is led with respect of somewhat that is good or at least seemeth good which prouoketh and draweth both sense and will to performe her actions Now though the desire Antecedent and delight consequent be inward and inherent yet the good things which we affect and would attaine are then externall when we pursue them and when we vse them or enioy them they are but conioyned with vs in possession or opinion which contenteth both Body and Soule As you do not vnderstand what PROVOCATION meaneth so do you lesse perccaue what PLEASVRE is You mingle Soule and sense head and heeles together to make some shew of opposition but in the end you bewray your presumptuous ignorance and daube it ouer with your wonted words of PROPER MEERE which are as much to this purpose as salt to make sugar The PROPER prouocations and pleasures of sinne are often times you say not outward at all I vsed not the word outward but sayd the soule tooke from the bodie all PROVOCATIONS and PLEASVRES of sinne brought to effect and committed all ACTS of sinne by her bodie you neither marke the restraint which I made in the beginning of that section of all sinnes brought to effect neither see the words following in the same sentence which expresse as much the acts of sinne committed but rouing quite from the matter you â—…arle at my words without iudgement or memorie For as you fumble about prouocations so do you about pleasure which you would make to be meerely spirituall But notwithstanding your toying with termes that is properly PLEASVRE which the soule
the people that Christ came to saue the house of Israell by giuing his life for their sinnes and that sinne caused the onely Sonne of God to be crucified in the flesh and to suffer the most vile and slaunderous death of the Crosse and consequently willed them to remember how grieuously and cruelly Christ was handled of the Iewes for our sinnes and to set before their eyes Christ crucified with his body stretched on the Crosse his head crowned with sharpe thornes his hands and his feete pearced with nayles his heart opened with a speare his flesh rent and torne with whips his browes sweating water and bloudâ—… by this stirreth vp the hearers to the hatred of sinne that was so grieuous in the sight of God that he would not be pacified but onely with the bloud of his owne Sonne And though there were a thousand examples in the Scripture shewing how greatly God abhorred sinne yet this one is of more force then all the rest that the Sonne of God was compelled to giue his body to bee bruised and broken on the Crosse for our sinnes After these premonitions follow your words Christ hath taken vpon him the iust reward of sinne which was death not the whole reward of sinne which is an vtter exclusion from all grace and glorie and the eternall damnation of body and Soule in hell fire but the death of his body bruised and broken on the Crosse by the cruell rage of the Iewes which is particularly and plainely before described Now the death of the body inflicted on all mankind for sinne is the iust though not the full reward of sinne and by suffering that Christ freed vs from all condemnation of sinne which otherwise in vs would haue beene euerlasting And this explication the same Homily addeth to the former words which you cite though you purposely suppresse it When all hope of righteousnesse was past on our part and wee had nothing whereby wee might quench Gods burning wrath and worke the saluation of our Soules Then euen then did the Sonne of God come downe from heauen to be wounded for our sakes to be reputed with the wicked to be condemned vnto death to take vpon him the reward of our sinnes and to giue his body to be broken on the Crosse for our offences Here are both the places which you patch together the one noting Death to be the iust reward of sinne the other expressing what kind of death Christ suffered for vs as the reward of our sinne euen the breaking of his body on the Crosse for our offences In the second proposition you shew more deprauing of the publike doctrine of this Realme For where the second Homily saith in expresse words that our Grandfather Adam by breaking Gods commaundement in eating the Apple forbidden him in Paradise purchased not onely to himselfe but also to his posteritie for euer the iust wrath and indignation of God who condemned both him and his to euerlasting death both of body and Soule you transferre this iudgement from Adam to Christ which the Homily doeth not and least you should bee taken tardie with open blasphemie you leaue out the word EVERLASTING which is euident in the Homily and vpon those maimed and forged collections you inferre that by the Homily Christ tooke on him for vs the death both of body and Soule Why say you not Christ tooke vpon him EVERLASTING death both of body and Soule which was the iust and due purchase or wages of our sinne by the plaine words of that Homilie You feared blasphemie and therefore you chose rather to falsifie the place then to want some defence for your Doctrine Christ you will say died that death which was the reward of our sinne by the Booke of Homilies To belie publike Authoritie so grossely in so great causes is a quadruple iniquitie What death Christ died for our sinnes is openly professed and euen pictured before our eyes in this very Homilie the words I repeated in the Section before What death was the wages of our sinne if the word euerlasting did not fully declare the same Homilie in the same Section whence your words are taken doth twice most abundantly teach Adam tooke vpon him to eate of the tree forbidden and in so doing he died the death that is to say he became mortall he lost the fauour of God he was cast out of Paradise he was no longer a Citizen of heauen but a fire brand of hell and a bond-slaue to the Diuell And sixe lines after So that now neither Adam nor any of his had any right or interest at all in the kingdome of heauen but were become plaine Reprobates and cast-awaies being perpetually damned to the euerlasting paines of hell fire It would fairely fit your new Doctrine to defend that Christ was a Reprobate and a Cast-away yea a fire-brand of hell and a bond-slaue to the Diuell perpetually damned to the euerlasting paines of hell fire And though I be perswaded you detest these diuelish impieties and hellish blasphemies yet you regard little your cause or your conscience which vouch in Print that Christ suffered that reward of sinne which by the Booke of Homilies was due to vs all those things by the same Booke in the same place being due to vs. You will shift of this matter as if these things might be granted in substance not in circumstance and in our countenance not in his But such shifts are so shamefull and sinfull in this case that I thinke your owne friends wil altogether mislike your flying to the Booke of Homilies for the death of the Soule or the iust reward of sinne in all mankind there mentioned to be suffered in the Soule of Christ. Also our great Bible appointed by Authoritie to be read in publike Churches expresly saith as much It is a poore pittance when you finde no helpe for your new made hell in the whole Text of the Bible to run to the Printers additions set by the sides of the Booke who often annexe things in the Margine for direction or explication as they thinke good which declare the Printers or Correctors but not the Authors nor Translators mind Your wits I trust be not so weake but you can discerne between the English translation of the Text commaunded to be publikely read in the Church and the Marginall notes added by others without any warrant of publike Authority for ought that I see And therefore I take not my selfe nor any man else to be bound to those notes farder then they euidently concurre with the truth of the Text though they may be sometimes profitable for the opening of hard places That Christ was in an Agonie the Euangelist affirmeth and the English Translator hath done his duetie in expressing so much but what the cause was of that Agonie is beyond the Commission of a Translator to specifie since the Scripture concealeth it and so publike Authoritie which appointed
the English Translation to be openly reade in the Church confirmeth not the Marginall appositions which may not be read in the Church though they may be receiued so farre as they haue manifest coherence with the Text or consequence from the Text in respect rather of their veritie then Authoritie For these notes at first were not affixed and in sundry editions they haue been altered increased as the Corrector liked euen this note which you alleage somewhat differeth from the Geneuian notes whence this and the most of the rest were taken The words of the Geneuian edition vpon this place are these The word Agonie signifieth that horror that Christ had conceaued not onely for feare of death but of his Fathers Iudgement and wrath against sinne The Printer of the great English Bible or his Corrector ouer against those words of the Text he was in an Agonie setteth this obseruation in the Margine He felt the horror of Gods wrath and iudgement against sinne I refuse not those words as if they gainsaid the Doctrine which I defend but I see no farder ground in them then ghesse when they ayme at the cause of Christs Agonie which the Scripture suppresseth Howbeit let the words stand in their full strength though by no meanes I acknowledge either Authentike or publike Authoritie in them they rather euert then support your opinion The vttermost here ascribed to Christ is HORROR that is a shaking or trembling feare of Gods Iudgement and wrath against sinne which all the godly finde in them selues when they enter into the serious cogitation of Gods holinesse displeased and his Iustice prouoked with their sinnes but this is farre from the death or paines of the damned except you make the vengeance of the Reprobate all one with the repentance of the faithfull This therefore is like the rest of your proofes no way tending to your purpose The feare of Gods wrath against sinne which is common to all the godly in this life though not at all times hath no fellowship with the feare of the Reprobate much lesse with the torments of the damned The one is a religious and godly sorrow for sinne which worketh saluation and yet agniseth with feare and trembling the iustnesse and greatnesse of Gods wrath against sinne the other is the beholding of the terrible and eternall destruction of Body and Soule prepared for them without all hope of ease or end In Christ there might be a double cause of this horror conceaued or felt by him as affections are felt in the Nature of Man the one touching vs the other touching himselfe Christ might tremble and shake at the terror of Gods Iudgement prouided for vs which was euerlasting damnation of Body and Soule in hell fire and the more tenderly he loued vs the greater was his horror to see this hang ouer our heads euen as we naturally tremble to see the desperate daungers of our dearest friends present before our eyes And if Paul said truely of him selfe we knowing the terror of the Lord meaning the terror of the Lords Iudgement against sinne how much more then did the Sauiour of the world know the same the cleare beholding of which might iustly worke in him a manifest horror to teach vs to take heede of that terrible Iudgement at the sight whereof for our sakes he did tremble in the daies of his flesh An other cause of that horror might concerne himselfe For since the wrath and Iudgement of God against our sinne was so terrible to behold that Christ in his humane nature trembled at it how could it but raise an horror in him to know that he must presently receiue in his owne Body the burthen thereof and make satisfaction therefore with his owne smart which how farre it would pearce his patience the weakenes of our flesh in him might well feare and tremble though his spirit were neuer so resolute and ready to endure the most that mans nature in this life could sustaine with obedience and confidence So that either the sight of Gods wrath against sinne due to vs or the satisfaction of the same which Christ was to make might vrge his humane nature to that feare and trembling for the time which these notes obserue and yet neither of these come neere the feare of the wicked or paines of the damned Besides that religious horror and feare is nothing lesse then the paines of hell inflicted on the Soule by the immediate hand of God which is the deuice that you seeke to establish Thus my Text of Scripture is also iustified that Christ gaue himselfe the price of Redemption for vs WHICH ELS VVE SHOVLD HAVE PAYD If wresting adding and altering may be called iustifying then is your sense of that text iustified indeed otherwise there is nothing yet alleadged that any way approueth that meaning of the text which you would inforce The price of our redemption Christ payd not the same which els we should haue payd had we not beene redeemed for so Christ must haue suffered euerlasting damnation of bodie and soule which was the payment exacted of vs but he payd a PRICE for vs that more contented his displeased Father than our euerlasting destruction could haue done You dallie therefore with the doubtfulnesse of the word PAYD which sometimes signifieth the enduring of punishment sometimes the yeelding of recompence The Price of our sinnes which we should haue payd that is the punishment of our sinnes which we should haue susteined was eternall destruction of bodie and soule in hell fire and other payment we could make none This payment due to vs or punishment which we should haue payd the person of Christ could not suffer it is most horrible blasphemy so to speake or thinke but he payd a price for vs that is a SATISFACTION and AMENDS for our sinnes which by no meanes we were able to pay And so much the word ANTILYTRON noteth euen a Price Recompence or Ransome in exchange of the punishment or imprisonment which the captiue should suffer This Price you will say was himselfe I make no doubt that Christ gaue himselfe to die but NOT TO BE DAMNED for our sinnes as we should haue beene Neither can the common custome of redeeming captiues inferre any more than the giuing of a price for the Prisoner And therefore I did iustly aske Who told you that the Scripture here speaketh after the common vse of redeeming Captiues taken in warre And where you answere the nature of the word ANTILYTRON importeth so much which is properly vsed in such cases you vndestand neither the nature of the word neither the maner of our redemption rightly For first the word 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 whence Antilytron commeth properly signifieth a mutuall redemption of ech other as Aristotle obserueth and so we should redeeme Christ as he redeemed vs. Wherefore the word is heere improperly taken and signifieth no more than LYTRON without composition Againe the common vse of
mans cause Hauing made so foule a shipwracke of your owne cause as to be forced to confesse that Christ did not suffer the whole curse of the Law which before you stifly affirmed to recouer some part of your losses you spurne at my speeches as hauing neither trueth nor colour but report them right and spare them not which I doubt you will not doe because you make your entrance with so false a colour For I no where make the curse which senselesse creatures beare like to the curse which Christ suffered for vs. Let the pages which you cite 262 263 in Gods name be seene but speaking of Gods curse against the sinne of man I sayd that not onely the bodies and soules of the wicked were cursed and consumed with plagues resting in them and on them but all that they tooke in hand and all that belonged to them was likewise accursed And citing the 28. of Deuteronomie wherein a Calender of curses is denounced by the law against sinners I added that Chapter perused would easily shew how farre the curse of God in this life persueth sinners besides the horrible torments of the next life kept in store for them So that I did not there compare or liken the curse of God on senselesse creatures to the curse which Christ tasted for vs as your idle imagination apprehendeth but I shewed how farre the curse of the Law extended and thence inferred that if Christ did not suffer all the things there mentioned he did not suffer all the parts of Gods curse in this life besides the graund curse that closeth vp all and continueth for euer Depart from mee yee CVRSED into euerlasting fire You close your eyes against the force of my reason which is euident and prie for that which is not there and when you finde it not you patch out this point with plaine vntrueth as if I made Christ and the senselesse creatures like in the curses which they suffered You make a reason to proue that hanging on a tree mentioned in Moses is not all one with this curse of the Law in Paul Neither did I nor doe I say that it was all one This I sayd and still say they were both of one and the same nature You take great pride in pouncing of proper speeches wherein you would shew your wit by wresting them to what please you A reason I made which for ought I see you do not vnderstand howsoeuer you play your part with my words which is neither to confute them nor conceiue them rightly but all is one with you so you say somewhat you care not how vnlound it be I obserued in my Conclusion that S. Paul in his Epistle to the Galatians cap. â—… alleadged two kindes of curses out of Moses the one pertaining to the committing sinne the other to the suffering punishment for sinne Accursed is euerie one that abideth not in all things written in the booke of the Law TO DO THEM Here is the curse of doing euill to which all men are subiect immediatly vpon the fact not ten or twentie yeeres after when happily God ariseth to visit their sinnes and therefore this importeth not only a desert of future vengeance but the present detestation which God hath both of the deed which is euill and of the doer who is wicked An other kinde of curse the Apostle noteth out of Moses which is to hang on a tree Cursed is euerie one that hangeth on a tree Heere is a curse in suffering euill whereof the former is the cause for by Gods law no man should suffer euill but he that doth euill You in a iollity to aduantage your cause would needs pronounce it were vaine and senselesse to thinke the Apostle here spake of two seuerall kinds of curses taxing in your huffe not onely Chrysostome who expresly teacheth it was another curse and not the same but euen the Trueth it selfe to be vaine and senselesse which euidently conuinceth the one to be in nature very much different from the other For the detestation which God hath of sinne assoone as it is committed whereby he reiecteth the deed as repugnant to his holinesse and hateth the doer euen before punishment is a plaine distinct thing from the vengeance that is consequent and agreeable to Gods iustice Much more then doth it differ from the iudiciall punishments of men whereto Moses pointeth when he speaketh of hanging which though they haue a dependance vpon Gods will and law so farre as they follow the same yet must they differ as much as the persons punishments and powers of God and man doe Cursed sayth Moses is euerie one that abideth not in all things written in the booke of the Law This curse is present vpon ech sinne and generall to all the wicked in the middest of their greatest prosperity and securitie The punishment due to sinne is not so that is deferred till God see his time and then most dreadfull when men can not commit new sinnes as after this life Wherefore as all creatures reuenge mans sinne and yet are not all of one nature though in that seruice to God they alâ—… agree so the plagues and curses of sinne be not of one nature notwithstanding they be powred on men to punish their offences I meane they are both of one and the same Nature that is true and proper curses of God Well crowed yet before your courage come downe Shall all things that proceed from one cause or that haue one generall wherein they agree be all of one and the same nature Then men and mise be of the same nature for they are both liuing creatures Then angels and andierns starres and strawes and all things created haue the same nature because they are all the works of God Then vices and vertues and all contraries be of one and the same nature in as much as they are inherent in one subiect and destruent ech to other And to go no farther then your owne example then hunger and hell fire are both of the same nature because they both are true and proper curses of God vpon the wicked Be they great or litle you will say they are all punishments So the rest are all the works of Gods hands and yet were it mad-merie Diuinitie to say they are all of one and the same nature The fruit of the bodie of the ground of cattell kine and sheepe are the blessings of God and promised to the obseruers of his LAw and yet I trust they be not of one and the same nature with the ioyes of heauen though little and great they be promises and rewards of obedience One was the whole the other a part but both of them the true and proper curses of God The one is the cause the other is the consequent or effect but not a necessarie much lesse an essentiall part of the other For a man may bee truely accursed and yet not
a true and corporall punishment appointed by God for sinne though mans error inflict it on innocents or true repentance abolish the rest that would follow after this life if God were not reconciled vnto vs. In the wicked then which persist in their mischieuous purposes without repentance your reason taketh place that hanging to them is a part of that true and terrible curse the whole whereof shall be executed on them for their sinnes but in repentants it is starke false and in Christ of whom this question riseth it is irreligious and impious to say that he suffered the whole curse of the Law prouided for sinne or the death of the soule and of the damned which is properly due to sinners Now vnderstand Chrysostome thus as we before haue distinguished the punishment of Christ and of the damned and then we differ not Suppose Chrysostome to teach falsly and talke absurdly as you doe and then you may soone bring him to weare your badge but leaue him at libertie to tell his owne tale and hee is farre enough from your follies He sayth they were dâ—…erse curses in Christ and in the damned to signifie diuerse manners of one and the same curse in Nature He speaketh not of the damned at all he speaketh of the whole people of the Iewes which were vnder the curse of the Law for sinne till they were thence deliuered by Christ which the damned neuer were nor shall be His words are The people were in danger of another curse which saith Cursed is euery one which abideth not in the things written in the booke of the Law For not one of them had obserued the whole Law Christ then since he was not subiect to the curse of transgression admitted this curse to hang on the Crosse in steede of that to loose the people from their curse Chrysostome truely learnedly and consonantly to the rest of the ancient Fathers distinguisheth two kindes of EVILS or CVRSES incident to men which are sinne and the punishment of sinne The one is an vniust action pleasing man but displeasing God the other is a iust passion pleasing God but displeasing man Mala dicuntur Delicta Supplicia The OFFENCE and the REVENGE are both called â—…uils sayth Tertullian Duo sunt genera malorum peccatum poena peccati there are two sorts of Euils sayth Austen Sinne and the punishment of sinne For by Gods prouidence ruling all things as man doth the euill which he will so he suffereth the Euill which he will not Then sinne is not onely euill before it be punished but a greater euill then the punishment is since it is an euill in his owne nature repugnant to the righteousnesse of God Now as God is all good and therefore all blessed so sinne forsaking God falleth from goodnesse and so from blessednesse and is consequently more accursed with God then punishment is and ought so to be with men if they be rightly aduised as being the cause and continuance of their punishment For accursed signifieth as well detested and depriued of blessednesse as subiected to miserie or deuoted to destruction So that sinne in it selfe is a curse with God that is hated and detested of God and depriuing man of all communion and participation with the fountaine of blessednesse though no punishment did follow Yet because men would with neglect and despâ—…ght of God abide and reioyce in their wickednesse if sense of grieâ—…e and paine did not force them to feele theiâ—… wretchednesse therefore the wisedome and iustice of God pursueth such as dwell and delight in their sinnes with sharpe and bitteâ—… plagues that locâ—…ing on their miserie they may timely repent or eternally lament their obstinacie To these two kinds of curses Chrysostomes wordes and proofes doe leade The whole people were not damned as you deuoutly dâ—…eame but they had sinned and so were subiected to the danger of Gods displeasure foâ—… sinne and of his indignation against sinne From this Christ was free for he did not sinne 〈◊〉 was guile found in his mâ—…uth as Chrysostom concludeth out of the Scriptures Since then Christ was not subiect to the curse of Transgression he admitted â—…other Curse euâ—…n the punishment of sinne which is a curse also for sinne though of an other Nature then the committing of sinne by one to dissolue the otheâ—… that is by his owne paine to abolish the guilt of our sinne Chrysostomes woâ—…ds are as plâ—…ne as his proofes The curse of transgressing was another curse and not the 〈◊〉 which Christ suffered Yea Christ might not be subiected to that curse to which the people were for transgressing the law but changed that for another and so loosâ—…d their curse 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 another and not the same be as forciâ—…le woâ—…ds to shew different natures and persons as any the Greeke tongue hath and your shift of diâ—…erse degrees in the same nature is a childish toy since much and little like and vnlike sâ—…ew diuers degrees or measures in one nature but another and not the same thing directly noteth the substance or nature to be diuers Austen on whom you triumph is stretched beyond his meaning he deaâ—…eth against a Mainichâ—…e who denied that Christ had true human flesh Now he proueth that Christ truely died because the Apostle saith he was made a curse for vs in that he hanged on a Tree I haue cause to content my selfe that so leaâ—…ned and religious a Father as Saint Augustine was so highly reuerenced in the Church of God did more then twelue hundred yeers since in his conflicts with Hereticks refute the greatest part of your positions as repugnant to the faith of Christ and the soundnesse of the Sacred Scriptures And I thinke few men so foolish as in the grounds of our Redemption and saluation by Christ to reiect the Doctrine which he taught as false and receaue your scambling conceits as true And in my Iudgement you were best to take heed least if the resolutions which Saint Austen and other Catholike Fathers made against Heretickes disprooue your new found faith you be taken tardy with bringing Baggage into the Church of Christ long since condemned and banished from the Creede of all Christians What Saint Austen proueth you are no fit reporter except you did read more attentiuely and iudge more sincerely For did you euer peruse the words wrong course in so wise a Father if he meant purposely to prooue against the Manichees that Christ truely died for vs and not in shew onely as they supposed to ouerskip all the Testimonies and circumstances of Christs true death recorded in the Scriptures as his giuing vp the Ghost Pilates examining and the Centurions confessing the truth thereof as also the Souldiers perceiuing him alreadie dead and so not breaking his lâ—…gges but pearcing his side with a speare and the* gazing and watching of his â—…nemies and of the whole multitude ouer him
to see him die as likewise his buriall by his owne followers the sealing of his Tumbe and his lying three daiâ—…s in the graue to omit I say all these things with silence and to produce a word which the Manichees reiected as odious and iniurious to Christ and the Christians defended none otherwise then as common to all men that die both good and bad were no small ouersight in so learned a writer But this is a â—…ite of yours to shift of the truth of his answere it is no part of his meaning He sheweth against the Manichees and likewise against you since you defend the Contrarie that the death of the Body is in all men the punishment of sinne and that this death INFLICTED ON MANS NATVRE for sinne which is the MORTALITIE OF OVR FLESH by the Scriptures is called a Sinne and a Curse euen in Christ not that Christ was properly and truly accursed with God as transgressours are which is your erroneous assertion but that he submitted himselfe to receiue the punishment of sinne in his owne person by the death of his Body which was common to him with all men If the former words of Saint Austen were not plaine enough he hath playner If thou deny Christ was accursed deny Christ was dead If thou deny he was dead now â—…ightest thou not against Moses but against the Apostles If thou confesse him to haue beene dead confesse that he tooke the punishment of our sinne without sinne Now when thou hearest the punishment of sinne beleeue it came either from Gods blessing or cursing If the punishment of sinne came from blessing wish alwaies to be vnder the punishment But if thou desire to be thence deliuered beleeue that by the iust Iudgement of God the punishment of sinne came from the curse Confesse then that Christ tooke a Curse for vs when thou confessest him to haue beene dead for vs Nec aliud significare voluisse Mosen cum diceret maledictus omnis qui in ligno pependâ—…rit nisi mortalis omnis moriens omnis qui in ligno pependerit and that Moses had none other meaning when he said Accursed is euery one that hangeth on a Tree then to say euery one that hangeth on a Tree is Mortall and dieth He might hauâ—… said Accursed is euery Mortall Man or accursed is euery one that dieth How thinke you would Austen prooue that Christ truely died because he was truely accursed or that Christ tooke vpon him a Curse because he tooke vpon him the death of the Bodie which is the punishment of sinne in all mortall men and so proceeded from the curse whereunto all men for sinne were subiect He doth not defend the Apostle by Moses but he expoundeth Moses by the Apostle and so resolueth in plaine words that Moses had none other meaning when he said accursed is euery one that hangeth on a Tree then if he had said accursed is euery mortall man because death came first on all men as a Curse for sinne You acknowledge not the death which all men die to be a punishment or Curse for sinne But all the wit you haue will not answere Saint Austens reasons For the death of the Body which is common to all mortall men must of force be a blessing or a Cursing If it be a blessing why doe we beleeue or hope to be free from a blessing but if we detest continuance vnder it and desire deliuerance from it then certainly the death of the Body in all men euen in the Saints of God was and still is a punishment and Curse of Sinne till Christ raise vs from it An other reason Saint Austen vrgeth to the same effect which is this Vnlesse God had hated sinne and our Death he would not haue sent his sonne to vndertake and abolish the same What maruaile then if that be accursed to God which God hateth God that is him selfe all life and gaue vs life as his blessing in this world must needs hate death which is priuation of life as repugnant to his Image and euerting the worke of his hands wherewith he ioyned Soule and Body to participate in life And though by his Iustice he inflicted death on all men for sinne yet of his mercie he sent his owne and PAINFVLL death to be that part of the curse which Christ suffered for vs. This I hope is more then shame though shame and reproch were not the least parts of Gods curse against sinne euen in Christ. You would needs in a brauado set vp your bristles and aske What nothing but the shame of the world will any man of common sense affirme that this was all the curse that Christ bare for vs I replied that shame and ignominie was an expresse part of the curse which Christ dying suffered for vs and that there was no cause you should so much disdaine Chrysostome and Austen for so saying The Scriptures themselues in that point concurred with them as I haue fully shewed in my Conclusion and you can not auoid it Lest therefore your Reader should take you to be tongue-tied you cleane change the case and would haue men beleeue that I defend and endeuoured to proue that shame was the whole curse which Christ endured As though I alleaged not S. Austen at large to proue that death in all men Christ not exempted was a part of the curse inflicted on mankinde for sinne And therefore when Chrysostome sayd the crosse is the onely kinde of death subiect to the curse I did not set him and Austen at variance as if the one did trippe the other but I thus reconciled them that not only death as in all men but the verâ—…e kinde of death which Christ died was accursed by the very words of the Law in Chrysostomes iudgement This then is one of your familiar trades and trueths to set downe that in my name which I neuer spake nor meant and so by lying when you can not by reasoning to support your cause Indeed if a man will admit your absurd and false positions so much is consequent out of their words For where you will not haue the death of the bodie to be any part of the curse inflicted on sinne except the death of the damned be coherent with it as in the reprobate it followeth from Chrysostomes words that the corporall death of Christ seuered from all other sorts of death had no part of Gods curse in it besides shame which yet is as farre from being a true curse where the cause is good as death it selfe since neither shame nor death are true and inward curses when they are suffered for righteousnesse but rather causes and increases of blessing not in nor of themselues but by Gods goodnesse accepting and recompensing them with all fauour and blisse Againe you mislike that I sayd Christs dying simplie as the godlie die may in no sort be called a Curse or accursed I mislike that you can not or
of his seruants and none that trust in him shall perish yea He shall redeeme Israell from all his Iniquities And so God in his owne person speaketh by his Prophet I will Redeeme them from the hand of hell I will Redeeme them from death Repentance is hid from mine eyes Here is he that first vndertooke out cause and professed and promised to be our Redeemer â—…uen the Sonne of God who being the brightnesse of glorie and the Character of his Fathers substance or liuely Image of his Person supporting all things with the word of his power made the purgation of our sinnes by himselfe that is in his owne Person Now if you being a Christian haue any bands to tie God withall besides his loue and his truth you were best shew them forth we shall otherwise take you if you stand vpon it for little better then an Arian to lay subiection or seruitude on any of the Persons in the most glorious Trinitie The word is vsed in the Scripture it selfe he was made a Suretie of a better couenant Is not this sufficient to warrant the goodnesse and aptnesse of the similitude against your vndutifull reproofes of it It is not written in the Scriptures that Christ was made our Suretie to God much lesse that he was a Suretie bound to the Law to pay our debts for vs. Our debt was euerlâ—…ting damnation of Body and Soule which either Christ or we must pay or suffer if your prophane vrging of this Similitude take place The Scripture saith He was made a Suretie of a better Testament proouing expresly by the Comparison of two Testaments a former and a weaker which was the Law a later and a better which was the Gospell that Christ was not a Suretie of the Law nor to the Law as you falsely conceaue but of a better Testament then the Law that is he was Gods assurance to vs that all his promises of â—…ercie grace and glory should stand fast notwithstanding our iniquitie indignitie and Infirmitie were neuer so vnmeete and vnworthie thereof This Suretiship of Christ to establish with his bloud the new couenant which God made with vs not we with him without all respect of our merits to pardon our offences and to make vs heires of his heauenly kingdome the Scripture mentioneth which is no more like to your Suretiship then freedome is to bondage I therefore reprooued not the word which my selfe also did vse I reprooued your seruile applying the word to bring Christ from loue and libertie which led him to be our Redeemer vnto thraldome and debt to make him thereby sinfull and defiled with our vncleannesse And is it not worthie of reproofe when a word is vsed in the Scriptures to one purpose for you to take vpon you to draw it as you list to your deuices It is plainly written in the Gospell The Sonne of man came noâ—… to be serued but to serue Will you hence presume your selfe to be Christs Master and take him bound to fulfill your Commandement as seruants must their Masters He saith of himselfe I am a worme and not a man Will you trample on him as you doe on wormes God hath giuen vs his Spirit as the pledge of our inheritance Shall we claime power ouer Gods spirit as we doe ouer pledges that are in our possession What wickednesse may not be bolstered if we stretch Similitudes vsed in the Scriptures farder then they were intended and we authorized You say Christ was not as a Suretie bound to the Law but of a better couenant euen of grace Verely a Suretie to vs of both Verely if you say that Christ was bound to vs or to the Law in both that is as well to beare our sinnes as to giue vs grace you broch two apparant blasphemies If you shift with saying Christ doth assure vs he hath done both for vs you slide from your former Assertion For that both these are done by Christ we bothagree only you would haue him when he bare our sinnes to be thereto bound and in that respect worthely condemned by the iust sentence of the Law which layeth the Penaltie on the Suretie when the Debtor cannot discharge it I told you that not onely we were in our selues to wicked and hatefull as being Enemies to haue any loue or fauour due to vs from God but also the Person of the Redeemer was so full of might and maiestie that no bands could be laid on him by the Lawe because he was afore the Law and aboue the Law that vndertooke our Redemption To this what reply yon He was a Suretie to vs of both But was he bound to vs or to the Law in either Why speake you not to that which is in Question It would well become the rest of your conceits to say that Christ was bound to redeeme vs being his Enemies and that the Sonne of God was bound to beare our burdens for vs. He promised so to doe Then the Loue of God which began it the Will which published it and the Truth which performed it are the more to be magnified by vs in the Sonne of God who could owe vs no duetie nor be bound to vs nor to the Law Those are the greatest bands that God can enter If Gods Counsels purposes and Promises be bands to barre the freedome of his fauour grace and mercie and in all these to impose on him a necessitie then is there in God no freedome but onely bondage which God forbid should come within any Christians hart He is most constant in all his thoughts words and waies which we may not thinke much lesse call debts to vs or bands to him without euident and extreame impietie but as he giueth all things to all and oweth nothing to any which the Scripture calleth his Grace whereof he is a giuer and not a Debtor so he cannot repent or change as men doe which we must ascribe to the infallible stedfastnesse of his most wise and glorious will the only Rule of all his gifts and works No band then if you know what a band meaneth can be fastned on God since that hath in it a debt which must of necessitie be yeelded whereto the partie may be compelled and forced by the right of the Law which chalenges in Gods promises are most prophane and heathenish Blasphemies It is written that Christ was made Hyponomon subiect to the Law or vnder the Law which you mightely denie against expresse Scripture You are so well acquainted with corrupting and deprauing other mens words that you make no care to doe the like to mine That Christ was vnder the Law I neuer denied no more then that he was vnder death but I said he was not bound to the Law no more then he was bound to death though he willingly for our sakes subiected himselfe to the rudiments of the Law for of those the Apostle speaketh to liue vnder them for a time
and was infinitely more grecuous and dolefull as touching the present sense then otherwise the meere outward stripes and wounds of men were or could be Sir you haue cast out your nets all night and caught iust nothing We know the diuell can not touch any haire of our heads till he receaue power from God so to doe This our discerning and acknowledging the hand of God in setting the wicked on worke as you call it in giuing them leaue to sift his Saints as I say and to exercise his graces in them doth breede no such feare nor torment of conscience as you talke of in Christ so long as we are perswaded that God loueth vs and doth all things for the best and that the sharpest triall in this life is the speediest way to his kingdome If we that be sinfull and fraile subiected indeede to the iust remorse of our consciences can yet apprehend and discerne the rage of Satan and of the wicked armed with power from aboue to make triall of our Faith and Patience and not be dismayed nor tormented in mind in any such sort as you speake of what shall we thinke the Soule of Christ full of grace and of the holy Ghost inseparably ioyned with his Godhead in one and the same person could conceaue of these his sufferings or Satans incensing the Iewes against him but as the truth was that he well liked and God approoued and annointed him to be the Sauiour of the world and the destroyer of Satans kingdome for this obedience and patience which he should shew in admitting the Iewes to execute Satans furious rage against his Body You would haue Christ to conceaue that he was sinfull defiled hatefull and accursed of God and in that respect God was become an Enemie to him and had forsaken him but these mysteries of iniquitie and Infidelitie were farre from that holy vndefiled and acceptable Sacrifice which the vnspotted I amb of God did offer for the sinnes of the world But why shrinke you and shift you thus from pillar to post and make sometimes the immediate hand of God to be cause of Christs suffering in Soule sometimes the working or conflicting of Satan with him and sometimes Christs owne apprehension that the Iewes and the diuell were set on worke by the secret wrath of God and all this while you doe not once endeuour you say to expresse the manner of it where in deede you doe nothing but waue to fro not knowing where to stand or what to hold but only to requoile to your accustomed couerts of Gods proper wrath and indignation against sinne from which you thinke you may frame what fansies you will q Defenc. pag. 81. li. 33. In your Booke you speake directly against the maine ground of it affirming that God himselfe did nothing to Christ that is he did not PROPERLY punish him Indeede I doe defend that God with his immediate hand or power did not torment the Soule of Christ otherwise that God gaue power to the Prince of darkenesse to come against him and r Matth. 27. deliuered him into the hands of sinners to doe vnto him s Acts. 4. whatsoeuer the counsell of God had determined before to be done that I euery where confesse and anouch Himselfe saith his t Iohn 18. Father gaue him the Cup which he did drinke to shew as well the Fatherly moderation as the righteous permission of his sufferings more then which no Scripture doth enforce though it call that Gods hand or deede which God by his loue did approoue and ordaine and by his wisdome and power direct and order for the performance of our Saluation u Defenc. pag. 82. 〈◊〉 2. The very truth and Gods nord it selfe is flat contrarie to you Your fansies perhaps be very strong against me but as for the Scriptures you vse to crake a great deale more of them then you haue cause He that can tell the meaning of Iobs words when he said x Iob. 〈◊〉 the Lord hath giuen and the Lord hath taken though the Sabeans and Chaldeans tooke his Oxen and Camels from him and y Iob. 19. the hand of God hath touched me when yet Satan z Iob 2 smote him with sore Boyles from the sole of his foote vnto his Crowne shall soone disperse the mists that you would make out of the word of God 〈◊〉 is written God made him sinne for vs Yea he made his Soule sinne Which is nothing Defenc. pag. 82. 〈◊〉 else but the Lord laid vpon him the iniquitie of vs all You shew your skill and vnderstanding in the Scriptures To prooue that God with his immediate hand did afflict and torment the Soule of Christ you note that God did appoint him to be the Sacrifice for sinne and that Christ accordingly did offer vp his Soule or life to be disposed at Gods pleasure What is ment by sinne in those words of the Apostle God made him sinns for vs I haue largely shewed before whence you may conclude that God did appoint and approoue Christ to be the Lamb that should take away the sinnes of the world because he was vndefiled and accepted of God as a most sufficient exchange or recompence for the sinnes of men but torment from the immediate hand of God these words doe not touch and therefore you might haue as well saued your Paper as lost your paines The next words that Christ made his owne Soule or life an offering for sinne to what purpose you bring it I can not ghesse except it be to let your Reader see that you doe not vnderstand whereabout you goe For how doth Christs giuing of his life for many proue that his Soule was afflicted by the very hand of God Had Gods immediate hand tormented his Soule when he commended his Spirit into his Fathers hands by your Doctrine he commended it not to rest but to Torment This is nothing else you say but the Lord laid vpon him the iniquitie of vt all Then none of these three Texts come any thing neere your intention that God with his owne hand laid the punishment of our sinnes on Christ since the last word by which you expound the rest inferreth no more but that God caused or made our sinnes to come against him In which words as in all the rest implying any such thing the Prophet meaneth God was the Supreme Cause and Author of all Christs sufferings which I no way deny but not the immediate executioner with his owne hand as you haue lately deuised and now would prooue if you could tell how This Phrase in the Scriptures that God DID these or these things concludeth not that he did them with his immediate hand but that he was the Decreer director and disposer of those things by his iust Iudgement to punish sinne or by his wisdome to make triall of his Saints God vsing for his Ministers and executioners Men or Angels good or bad as seemed best to his heauenly
owne intention and presse them as contrarieties in me which are absurdities in you Out of these words of the Apostle Christ spoiled powers and principalities triumphing ouer them you would needs conclude in your Treatise after your dissolute and distempered manner r Trea pa. 45. li. 11. 20. 22. These principalities are the diuels therefore it is certaine he felt them the verie instruments that wrought the verie effects of Gods seueritie and wrath vpon him By the verie effects of Gods wrath vpon Christ in this place you ment s Conclus pa. 284 li. 14. the force of Gods proper and immediate wrath vpon the soule of Christ as I admonished in that sentence part whereof you cite to make me contrarâ—…e to my selfe Since then the diuels if they wrought any thing on the soule of Christ must either t Il id pâ—…g 283. li 21. tempt or torment his soule as I first obserued u pa. 284. li. 8. and inward temptation by the heart Christ could haue none because that proceedeth from concupiscence and corruption of sinne from which Christ was most free and x li 9. outward temptation by the mouthes and hands of the wicked is no such effect of Gods wrath as you mentioned in those words y li. 15. but rather a triall of Gods gifts and graces bestowed on vs It rested I said by your owne words as a consequent from them that Christ felt the diuels tormenting his soule Out of this illation from your conceâ—…ts you catch the middle wordes wherein I said that outward temptation was no effect of Gods wrath by you intended in this place and will needs haue it in me a contradiction to my selfe and to the trueth not seeing that I presently in the same sentence shew what wrath of God you meane and to what part of Christ you fasten it in this collection and in my conclusion note that by the true construction of your owne wordes these things follow vpon your owne supposals Notwithstanding all this let the words lie as they doe and Gods wrath there not be taken in your sense nor depend on your principles which yet in all mens eies saue yours will be plaine enough considering the reason is a collection from the true intent of your owne wordes as I admonished the Reader in that verie place what fault now finde you with the wordes themselues imagining they were mine owne and not drawen out of your vessell z Defenc. pag. 84 li. 15. Elsewhere you truely acknowledge that all outward crosses and â—…fflictions small or great are in their nature punishments of sinne and effects of Gods wrath Now those doubtlesse are temptations But you impugne that saying when you please and will haue all afâ—…ictions in vs of whom I speake changed into blessings and when the Scripture calleth them wrath that speech you say is most improper and now for an aduantage you creepe to the contrary For if you marke my words in this place I speake of the temptations of the godly which come from the mouthes and hands of the wicked and aâ—…e trials of Gods gifts and graces bestowed on vs which are not imparted to the wicked And therefore if now I crosse the trueth when I say as you suppose that the temptations and aâ—…ctions of the godly are no effects of Gods wrath then haue you all this while mainely and mightely resisted the trueth in making this one of the chiefest strengths of your cause that no crosses or afflictions in the godly are signes or effects of Gods wrath against sinne Howbeit you leaue my wordes and make consequents of them full like your owne that is without toppe or taile when you come to oppose my speeches one against the other For where tentation in the Scriptures is sometimes taken for persecution and affliction sometimes for perswasion and allurement to euill and sometimes for probation or triall what a man will doe you take hold of the ambiguitie of the word and where one place speaketh of perswasion to euill the other of affliction you iumble them together and make the one repugnant to the other Now though afflictions may be called temptations yet all temptations are not afflictions nor effects of Gods wrath otherwise Adam could neuer haue bin tempted in Paradise before sinne and friendship fauor and flatterie do more often and more properly tempt or prouoke then affliction which doth more violently prooue the obedience and patience that is in men What temptation might well be ment in this place appeareth by the word of torment opposed to it when I said the diuell doth either tempt or torment where temptation if you will needes take the words themselues must note that which is no torment and consequently be taken for perswasion by faire and friendly words or meanes by which the diuell tempteth as dangerously as by force and violence And so neither way you hit the trueth nor can conclude any contrarietie in me though indeed I spake those words out of your sense of Gods wrath which is pregnant enough against you knowing that in your reason which I refute you made the diuels to be the verie instruments of Gods proper and spirituall wrath against the soule of Christ. a Defenc. pag. 84. li. 21. You say outward temptation is rather a triall of Gods gifts and graces bestowed on vs. And is not inward temptation in the godly so to I pray you what oddes is this that you make betweene inward and outward temptations If you know no oddes betweene outward Difference of outward and inward temptations and inward temptations you be deepely seene in Diuinitie Saint Iames telleth you that b Iam. 1. v. 14. euerie man is tempted when he is drawen away and intised by his owne concupiscence which of it selfe naturally lusteth against the spirit and much more when it is inflamed by Satans suggestions and motions This kinde of temptation riseth from the corruption of our sinnefull nature and is the poison of sinne dwelling in vs the verie motion whereof is forbidden by the law of God Thou shalt not lust though it be pardoned in the elect for Christes sake as all their sinnes are Outward temptations haue no such necessary condition It is no sinne to be tempted externally otherwise Adam had sinne before his fall and Christ himselfe was subiect to sinne for they both were outwardly tempted though not inwardly as I teach and the Church of Christ before me taught the same howsoeuer you take a pride in departing from the full conseâ—…t of all learned and religious antiquitie to maintaine your vpstart and most absurd noâ—…elties that with figures and fansies you may seeme wise in your owne conceit c Defenc. pag. 84. li. 29. 33. 36. Furder Satan might spiritually and extraordinarily worke together with these his Instruments outwardly afflicting Christs body and Christ likewise extraordinarily might apprehend the same And thus might Christ suffer most strange Temptations and incomprehensible sorrowes
meriement or a prattlement then an argument That they resisted or inuaded might happely be collected not from the force of those words but from the disposition of such enemies yet which way they inuaded or how farre they preuailed can no way be thence coniectured though it be strongly by you conceited The Apostles words as I haue shewed may either declare the glory of Christes resurrection wherein all knees of things in heauen earth and hell did bow and stoupe vnto him rising from the dead or as some apply them expresse the power and glorie of his Passion in which by the perfection of his innocence patience and obedience he spoyled sinne and Satan of al their right and force ouer his Elect and caried all his Enemies as Captiues in an open shew before God and his Angels notwithstanding all the instance or resistance they could make From either of these senses how you can inferre that Satan tormented the Soule of Christ or that he impressed in Christs hart spirituall wicked cogitations or motions I verily doe not see except you haue a Patent to make Conclusions contrary to their Premisses o Defenc. pa. 85. li. 25. Then you come to confute my fourth Reason but the mainest points thereof you haue not so much as touched I shewed that the Godly sometimes in this life doe feele a tast of Gods insinite wrath and euen of hellish sorrowes 2. That Christ our Redeemer suffered for vs as deepely yea deeper then euen any of vs heere doe suffer but all this you can here clenly passe ouer without any word to it The matters were belike very waightie and your proofes many that I was forced to passe them with silence Indeede I neither tooke nor had any more time to refute your Treatise then whiles my Sermons were in Printing as they know that had the doing thereof and that made me the shorter in refelling your Reasons and sometimes the darker in proposing ruine owne but as for this which here you complaine of I saw no cause why in that speedie dispatch I should trouble my selfe any longer with it The first Proposition in some sense I admitted the second which you barely supposed without proofe I reiected as iniurious to Christ and repugnant to the Apostles words which you alleaged for it Neither haue you in this long aduised and farre consulted Defence so much as medled with the instances that I gaue against your false Collection Let him that will read the 286. Page of my Conclusion and see whether touching the maine points here pretended you were not briefely but truely answered and stand yet staggered with the parts there specified The summe of mine Answere to both as my words there witnesse was this p Conclus pa. 286. li. 7. The Terrors of minde which we fecle through conscience of our vnworthinesse ignorance of Gods Counsell and distrust of Gods fauour Christ neuer felt his Faith admitted no doubting his loue excluded all fearing his hope reiected all despairing q Ibid. li. 15. He was tempted in all things alike except sinne Then neither the rootes parts nor fruites of sinne must be in him but the Apostle that excepteth sinne excepteth all sinfull adherents What say you to this is it no Answere I would gladly heare what you can reioyne against it But you that skip euery thing which toucheth you to the quicke and iette in your generall Phrases like a Crow in a gutter ouer leape what you list and then for a shew surmise that your Reasons and proofes are silenced Well I may speake now more largely and plainly but in effect I can speake neither more truely nor more directly then I then did Yet for your pleasure I will not refuse to put your Propositions once more on foote to see how currant they are r Defenc. pag. 85. li. 27. The Godly sometimes in this life doe feele a tast of Gods infinite wrath and euen of hellish sorrowes You commit but three foule ouersights in this one proposition 1. You marre the whole and make it impertinent to your purpose 2. You contradict your Contradictions in the Defender maine Positions 3. You rest on euident ambiguities or open falsities What some of the godly doe sometimes feele either in Body or Soule maketh nothing to Christs sufferings by your owne Confession Your owne Rule is s Defenc. pag. 86. li. 32. In these words Christ was like vs in all Temptations and afflictions we are to vnderstand all that are incident to mankind generally not which happen to any man particularly So that what the godly doe sometimes feele for not onely Children and Infants but many thousand Christians die free from these hellish sorrowes of yours may not be made a President for Christs sufferings And where you or your Corrector would after salue this ouersight by saying in the margine t Defenc. pag 8â—… in margine li. 1. which though all generally feele not yet generally is due to all in respect of sinne you multiply your absurdities you mend not the loosenesse of this Proposition For due to all in respect of sinne are all manner of externall and corporall plagues from many of which your selfe would exempt Christ by this obseruation of yours and likewise reiection confusion desperation and eternall damnation are due to all in respect of sinne from which if you doe not exempt Christ you exempt your selfe out of the number of the Faithfull to take a worse course then Iudas who yeelded his Masters Body into the hands of men where this conceit yeeldeth Christs Soule into the power of diuels Secondly be you now of the minde that the Godly doe sometimes feele a Tast of Gods wrath How often haue you resolued and Proclaimed in this Booke that u Defenc. pa. 13. li 8. to the Godly their afflictions both small and great are no effects of Gods proper wrath and now they sometimes feele a Tast of his Infinite wrath What shift to saue this repugnancie can you deuise Gods Infinite wrath perhaps is not his proper wrath It is the same you say that Christ suffered and since Christ by your Doctrine suffered none but the proper wrath of God the Faithfull feeling the same that Christ did must suffer the same kind of wrath that Christ suffered Againe can you find vs an Infinite wrath in God that is not properly wrath What hath Gods proper wrath of which you haue iangled so much more then Infinite in time or degree or both but these Resolutions of yours be like your Inuentions they hang together as drunken mens steps or mad mens dreames Consult I pray you with your friends and aske them what answere you shall yeelde to this forgetfulnesse of theirs or variablenesse of yours Thirdly what meane you by hellish sorowes If you thereby note the feare of hell Men â—…ay feare but not suffer the true paines of hell in this lise which may often afright the seruants of God in this life is that
know not where to rest The first was vnspeakeable smart and paine from Gods immediate hand inflicting What torments the Defenâ—…er hath deâ—…sed for Christes soule the same anguish on the soule of his Sonne that he doth on the damned spirits For this you haue neither script nor scrole text nor title in the word of God it is a bold and lewd deuice of yours presuming what you please of Gods hand because it is diuersly taken in the Scriptures From thence you lept to diuels and made them Gods instruments to torment the soule of Christ with strange temptations and incomprehensible sorrowes suggested into the soule of Christ. Then you made Christs owne heart conceaue and discerne from the wordes and acts of the Iewes fired and enraged by Satan the dreadfull and painfull strokes and stings of Gods anger and iust indignation against him for our sinnes and yet all these are but the tumultuous dreames of your owne head and certaine wastefull words that may be drawen to diuers senses besides which you haue neither expressed nor confirmed any thing Now you begin to make Commentaries vpon the Apostle to the Hebrewes which are as cleere as a coale and as sound as a satchell of saw-dust p Defenc. pag. 86. li. 10. First en ho in that which himselfe suffered signifieth either the 1 Defenc. pag. 86. li. 10. matter wherein Christ is able to succour vs or the 2 Defenc. pag. 86. li. 10. meanes whereby he becommeth readie and fit to succour vs or els the occasion and 3 Defenc. pag. 86. li. 10. reason why he is the readier to succour vs euen in that he himselfe suffered and was tempted Your expositions be like your conclusions they haue neither root nor rinde Here are in shew three parts of a diuision all which indeed you say are q Defenc. pag. 86. li. 31. but one and the same in effect and so your triple diuision senselesse and needlesse the parts importing one thing and the r Li. 27. first way seemeth to you not the vnlikeliest which if you put any difference between them is the falsest farthest from the Apostles meaning For that Christ helpeth men in nothing but what himselfe first suffered that he suffred al particular degrees speciall sorts of afflictions as well in soule as in bodie which may befall any man these are so lowd lies that but you no man would make either of them the apostles speech or purpose But your lucke is to light on the worst or your choise leadeth you to fansie the foulest that you may differ fro other men be singular in your own sense For your selfe see say s Li. 35. all the particular kinds of crosses in the world neither could nor can possibly come to any man and so not to Christ. Why then make you that the likeliest meaning of the Apostles words that Christ suffered all the matter that is all those kinds of paines wherein he succoureth vs If you meane generally that Christ tasted all sorts of paines that is both corporall and spirituall then shall you neuer conclude that he tasted this or that kinde of paine in speciall but it sufficeth that Christ had not only a diuine respect in mercie but an humane sense and experience of our miseries both outward and inward to assure vs that he is compassionate and tenderly affected in our infirmities and extremities because he himselfe felt the sharpnesse of feare sorow shame and paine whiles heere he liued and hath not forgotten how neere they pinch the weakenesse of mans nature And more the Apostle meant not in those words then to shew the Sonne of God would in his owne person and humane nature feele our infirmities and miseries that he might haue an humane commiseration and compassion of vs when we are afflicted by the remembrance of his owne sufferings which the words doe fully fit For t Heb. 2. en ho in that or in as much as he suffered when he was tempted or tried he is able with more tendernesse of heart to helpe those that are tempted u Defenc. pag. 86. li. 18. Which way soeuer of these three we take the words yet they plainly inferre that Christ him selfe felt all the miserie and smart of our sufferings and Temptations which at any time we feele The smart and griefe of reiection confusion desperation and such like Christ neuer tasted because they are faithlesse and gracelesse feares and sorrowes in vs. Yet in these Christ can and doth sâ—…ccour vs not because he suffered the same but for that he knoweth what affliction of spirit feare and sorrow bring with them by his owne experience not of the same obiects which are sinfull but of the same affections which are naturall And none of these waies which you mention came neere the concluding of any such thing except you vrge the first against all truth and sense acknowledged euen by your selfe where you say x Defenc. pag. 87. li 21. I speake not of euery particular in each of them or which euery man meeteth withall Graunt then that Christ in his manhood would â—…eele the sharpest impressions that feare or sorrow shame or paine could make on the Body or Soule of Man but still without sinne is that a proofe that Christ â—…ed reiection confusion or damnation because he tasted how deeply feare could afâ—…ct mans nature What ignorant and vncoherent Collections are these Christ tâ—…ed the sharpnesse of all our affections as namely of feare sorrow and shame ergo he had all the same causes and obiects of feare sorrow and shame that we do and may â—…eele Who reasoneth so that hath any reason left in his head or hart This 〈◊〉 the 〈◊〉 KATA PANTA in all things doe fully import The words kata panta in all things or altogether may haue out of the very Text of the Apostle to the 〈◊〉 foure seuerall references and none of them neere the false construction that you make of them The first is he must be like his bretheren in all the parts of Mans nature for â—…e 〈◊〉 not the nature of Angels but the Seede of Abraham Wherefore in all things that is in all the parts and necessarie consequents of Mans nature he muâ—… be like 〈◊〉 Bretheren 2. He must be like not this or that Brother and so not like any particular Persons in any speciall cause or Circumstance but wherein they all aâ—…e Bretheren each to other y Hebr. 2. in all those things he must be like them all 3. It is but a likenesse that the Apostle vrgeth in all these things there is no equalitie much lesse an Identitie required in those words not that Christ in patient suâ—…ering of afflictions did not paâ—… all but these words import a Similitude and haue no farder force 4. These and all other things that were in Christ must be in him without sinne z Hâ—…r 4. he was tempted in all things after a likenesse but without sinne
So that in all his Infirmities affections Temptations and afflictions he was still free from sinne which may be the Apostles mâ—…aning in the laâ—…r place to note that how diuâ—…rs soeuer Christs Temptations were yet he was tempâ—…d in all things without sinne Then all such feares and sorrowes as hâ—…ue in them any doubt or distrust of Gods fauour aud Christs Saluation are vtterly excluded from him by the Apostles owne limitations and therefore you loose but your labour by pretence of these words to bring Christ within the compasse of your 〈◊〉 feares and sorrowes a Defenc pag. 86. 〈◊〉 2â—… Hereto â—…erueth our publike Doctrine Diram execrationem in se suscepit You handle the 〈◊〉 as you doe the Scriptures and Fathers turning them from their right What Christ 〈◊〉 for 〈◊〉 sense to serue your priuate Doctrines Christ vndertook our curse saith the Caâ—…isme what then Christ vndertooke all our sinnes and all the punishment due vnto them not to 〈◊〉 it in the same kinde but to dissolue it in his Person and to discharge vs of it Yea he vndertooke our reiection confusion and damnation to satisfie them not to beare them to clâ—… them not to beare them So that hence you may conclude a Satisfaction and dissolution made by Christ of all these things that were due to vs but you may not inferre that he was vtterly reiected inwardly confounded or eternally condemned as we should haue beene and the damned are Againe he tooke vpon him the Satisfaction and recompence of all our sinnes and paines But where Saint Peterâ—…aith Christ bare our sinnes in his Body on the Tree and Saint Paul saith b 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 2. Christ 〈◊〉 things in 〈◊〉 and things in heauen by the bloud of his Crâ—… and reconâ—… c 〈◊〉 2. vs in the Body of his flesh Christ vndertooke then to abolish our curse and condâ—…tion but in the Body of his flesh where he reconciled vs vnto God So that you must bring 〈◊〉 words out of the Catechisme before your Doctrine will 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 drawen And by your leaue I take the Catechisme permitted to be taught in Schooles but not Authorized for the publike Doctrine of this Realme Neither are you the Man that so much respect authoritie farre more publike then this where it sorteth not with your fansies But here you haue caught a word or two that may be misused and that is the cause the Catechisme is so much magnified by your priuate Authoritie as to be the publike Doctrine of this Realme Which I speake not to disgrace the Booke but to make difference betwixt your verdict and the Iudgement of the whole Realme d Defenc. pag. 87. li. 7. You might haue giuen a good sense of my words if you had any mind 〈◊〉 as of those generall and large words of the Scripture whereupon I grounded my selfe It is more then time we should yeelde such a ghest as you are the same submission and reuerence that we giue to the Sacred Scriptures specially when you abuse the words of the holy Ghost to your priuate vnsound conceits In the word of God I am bound to looke to the meaning of the Writer who could not erre and therefore howsoeuer the words if they were another mans might be reiected yet in the Scriptures they are to be receaued with all Religion because he endited them that is â—…e Spirit of truth and he hath a found and euident Doctrine in them though we vnderstand it not And therefore we must seeke to other places of like sense or more light that we may learne the meaning of the holy Ghost Expect you the like dâ—…tie when you deâ—…iue your sullaine and vnsauorie fansies by false and loose consequents from the words of holy write as if you were not bound to beware how you abuse the Scriptures but we must looke on and hold our peaces whiles you peruert the words of the Prophets and Apostles at your pleasure You made a number of false Propositions and Conclusions without all waâ—…ant of the word of God as e Trea pa. 46. li. 10. Thus doe the members of Christ suffer therefore of nâ—… 〈◊〉 Christ our head suffered the like yea farre greater terrors of God and assaults of the diuell And so you Reason f Ibid 〈◊〉 32. pag. 47. li. 1. which can not be refuted by the witte of Man 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 vs not but wherein he had experience of our Temptations but he succoureth 〈◊〉 in these 〈◊〉 Temptations of feeling the sorrowes of hell Therefore he himselfe haâ—… experience of the sâ—…me Where to shew your witte you ioyne an affirmatiue conclusion â—…o a negatiue maior and in defiance of all truth and reason you make this childish and ignorant manner of reasoning to be irrefutable And so your pleasant Electuaâ—… that g Trea pag. 45 li. 33. of all absurditiâ—…s this is the greatest that meere men should suffer more deepely and more bitterly the sorrowes and paines of hell then Christ did All these you build vpon this foundation Christ was h Heb. 4. Tempted in all things after alikenâ—…sse but without sinne noâ—… that â—…he â—…is any such intention or direction in the Apostles words but that you will makâ—… such a Construction of them and no man must say nay To let you see your folly and 〈◊〉 iu this point I i Coâ—…lus pa. 283. shewed you many corporall paines and sorrowes and likewise many spirituall which Christ neuer felt as touching the causes and obiects of those afflictions though I did not exempt him from the generall sense of those affections In the Body of Man I named blindnesse dumbnesse lamenesse sicknesse breaking of bones burning of fire and such like which Christ neuer suffered and yâ—…t in all these he can and doth succour others In the Soule I reckned blindnesse and hardnesse of hart vnbeliefe desperation frensie and vexation with diuels all which Christ hath often cured and healed and readily can though he were neuer plunged into these as men are Wherefore your maine and immooueable Collection out of the Apostle as you dreame that Christ succoureth vs not but wherein he had experience of the same was a blind and false inâ—…sion of yours vtterly mistaking the Apostles words and meaning To this what reply you k Defenc. pag. 87. li. 18. The Apostle and 〈◊〉 both doe speake of the sufferings of mankind in generall and of each part of nature apt to suffer but not of euery particular in each of them or which each meeteth withall You are where you would be when you and the Apostle goe hand in hand as you make your selfe beleeue though you come nothing neere the Apostles speech oâ—… sense Then since it sufficeth for the truth of the Apostles words that Christ felt feare sorrow shame paine and death which are common to all men and there was no neede that Christ should haue all the same causes of feare sorrow shâ—…me and paine which euery man hath or may
duely consider it appeareth so cleere as the Sunne at noone day that the paynes of his passion which plainly now he felt and feared because he knew he was to feele them further vnto death were the proper and direct cause of those agontes But we assume that such strange and lamentable things and behauiour in Christ were not the effects one lie and meerely of his bodilie paines and death Therefore Christ felt and endured more then his meâ—…re bodilie paines and death by the testimonie of the Scriptures which thinge you denie Your cleare Sun is the darke cloud of your owne imaginations your proper direct causes are the light and false coniectures of your owne braine your conclusion is a childish digression not onely from the thinges questioned by me but from the verie matters proposed by you onlie in the vpshot you hold your wonted course to strengthen your cause with a lie when trewth will not stand you in steed To beginne where you end you are not ignorant that I defend no such thing as meere bodily paines your selfe haue directly confessed the contrarie as I haue formerly shewed I say indeed Christ suffered no death but only the death of the body that you turne to a manifest vntrewth and say I denie that Christ felt any more then meere bodilie paines To what purpose then is your conclusion that Christ endured more then bodily paines What gaine you by that so long as Christ suffered none other death but the death of the body Christes feare and sorrow which the Scriptures expresse in the Garden were more then meere bodily paines and those though he felt you shall neuer thence conclude that he felt the paines of hell or of the damned l Defenc. pag. 91. Your assumption as you say I graunt and acknowledge and so your labour is the lesse but the proposition I gaine say in my whole discourse denying that the paines of Christes passion or the naturall feare of them was the proper and direct cause of those agonies or that the Scriptures implie so much If you looke well to my wordes they containe two things first that the n Serm pag. 17. li. 13. right cause of Christes agonie in the Garden is not n 14. determinately and o 15. certainely reuealed in the Scriptures secondly that the suffering of hell paines at that present was the least probable cause thereof if not altogether intolerable let vs now see how you impugne either of these p Defenc. pag. 91. li. 22. 14. 27. this your assertion I simply deny and then my proposition standeth firme that his paines inflicted on him by way of proper punishment and vengeance for sinne were the proper and maine cause thereof This is the cleerenes of your Sun-shining at noone day you deny my assertion and then your proposition standeth firme ergo the Scriptures doe certainly specifie the proper and direct causes of Christes agonie and those were the paines of the Damned which you call the proper vengeance for sinne Then if you list to denie any thing the contrary is presently prooued and concluded by you as cleere as the Sunne at noone day such proofes and conclusions which are nothing but strange and violent Imaginations your booke is full of and these twentie leaues and more which here you spend in examining Christs agonie haue nothing els in them but such meere falshoods and confusions Before we speake of the firmenesse of your proposition I would gladly know which of these three propositions which here you haue varied to shew the settlednes of your conceits is that which you offer to be examined In the first you say q Defenc. pag. 90. li. 37. the paines of Christs passion which plainly now he felt and feared to feele further vnto death in the second you say r Pa. 91. li. 7. those paines or the naturall feare of them in the third you say s Ibid. li. 26. his paines inflicted on him by way of proper punishment and vengeance for sinne these were the proper and direct cause of â—…hose agonies These and those these or those these alone and not those are childish and foolish contrarietiâ—…s with any wise man saue with you and yet all these are cleare and firme because you haue the witt to denie mine assertion Touching your proposition that the Reader may conceiue how you clutter things together to holde on your accustomed carriage he must marke that Christes agonie had many parts and circumstances some inward some outward some affections The parts of Christs agony some actions some apprehensions and all these had their causes efficient and adiuuant neere or remote sole or concurrent according to their differences The Scriptures expresly note in that agony which Christ had and shewed in the Garden the inward affections of sorrow feare admiration submission contention of mind in Christ. My soule saith he t Matth. 26. 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 is on euery side sorowfull or compassed round with sorow euen vnto death And he began sayth Matthew 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 to be full of sorow and much grieued For so the Apostle vseth the word 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 what sense soeuer it beare with prophane writers whereof we shall not need to dispute u Phil. 2. v. 26. I thought it necessary to send vnto you Epaphroditus my fellow souldier and your messenger for he was very desirous of you all 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 and very pensiue or much grieued because you heard he was sicke S. Marke sayth Christ in the Garden beganne x Mar. 16. v. 33 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 to be afrayd or astonied and full of heauinesse or griefe 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 signifieth feare and admiration which so fixeth the minde for the time that a man neither speaketh nor vseth the vigor of his senses As for submission of mind Christes y Matth. 26. falling flat with his face z Mark 14. on the ground when he powred foorth his prayers to God sufficiently sheweth as much inward humiliation of the soule in Gods presence as this outward gesture of his bodie declared or required His ardent zeale in prayer and vehement contention of minde S. Luke noteth when he sayth An a Luc. 22. Angell appeared to him to strengthen him with a message from God Christ then 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 falling into an agonie prayed more earnestly or feruently and his sweat was like drops of bloud trickling downe to the ground Of this agonie you haue often spoken and here you spend no small time about it but I scant beleeue you know what an agonie meaneth much lesse what was the true cause of this agonie Though an agonie be sometimes abusiuely taken for feare yet properly it is aâ—…firmed b Etymologicon ex Orione 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 of him that is readie to descend into any combate or conflict with another as Orion a most ancient Grecian obserueth Damascene confesleth that 〈◊〉
〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 standing What an agonie is in doubt or feare to missâ—… of that we vndertake we are agonized Galene the chiefe of Physicians and well skilled in the perturbations and commotions of the bodie that come from the bloud or spirits noteth of what affections an agonie is compounded ' Fâ—…are sayth he doth prâ—…sently driue the bloud and spirits inward towards their fountaine c Galenus dâ—…â—…ausis comatâ—…n li. 2. and contracteth them together by cooling the vttermost parts of the bodie and anger doth as suddenly heat them diffund and send them foorth 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 and that which in Greeke is called an agonie is compounded of them both and hath inequall motions according to the predominant affection Aristotle a great Philosopher in the knowledge of naturall things not only sheweth that there may be an agonie without feare as when we attempt things honest and commendable though diâ—…cult d Arist Rhetoricorum li. 1. cap. 9. 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 for which men striue and are agpmozed without feare but also that sweating in an agonie commeth rather from indignation and zeale than from feare e Idem Problemat sect 2. quest 26. An agonie sayth he is not the passing of the naturall heat from the higher parts of the bodie vnto the lower as in feare but it is rather an increase of heat as in anger and indignation And he that is in an agonie is not troubled with feare or colde but with expectation of the euent Wherein Theophrastus not much behinde him agreeth with him f Theophrastus de Sudoribus 12. 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 An agonie is not the remouing of the naturall heat but the increasing thereof as in anger And heat doth drie the outmost parts of the bodie I speake not this to bind Christes sweate in the Garden wholy to naturall causes but to shew that neither Diuinitie Philosophy nor Physicke doe permit that feare or sorow which coole the blood and quench the spirits should be the cause of this bloudie sweate but that rather as the Euangelist expresseth it came from strength and contention of zeale whiles Christ most feruently prayed for that which he was very desirous and in present expectation to obtaine An Angell appeared from heauen g Luc. 22. 43. 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 strengthning him saith the Scripture no question with a message from God For Angels otherwise were not in this case to entermeddle And then Christ h vers 44. entring into an Agonie that is into a vehement contention of mind to preuaile against that which resisted or hindred him he prayed more feruently From this feruencie of zeale and contention of minde came that bloudie sweate which the Euangelist mentioneth which whether we make to be according to Nature or aboue Nature it could not proceede from feare or sorrow as some men imagine For feare doth driue the bloud inward and coole it and so can not thinne it and expell it by the outmost parts and pores of the Body The Physitian that wrote the Booke de vtilitate Respirationis amongst Galens works saith i Li. de vtilitaâ—…e Respirationiâ—… Galen attribut â—…om 7. Contingit Poros ex multo aut feruido spiritu vsque adeo dilatari vt etiam exeat sanguis per eos â—…iatque sudor sanguineus It sometimes happeneth that abundant or feruent spirits doe so dilate the pores of the bodie that bloud passeth by them and so the sweate may be bloudie If we leane not to the course of Nature for the cause of Christs bloudie sweate then Hilaries Rule is very sound k Hilarius dâ—… Trinitate li 10. It is no Infirmitie which power did aboue the custoâ—…e of Nature No man then may dare impute Christs sweate to weakenesse because it is against Nature to sweat bloud Beda followeth him in the l Beda in Luc. cap. 22. same words Rupertus in larger m Rupertus de victoria verbi Dei li. 12. ca. 21. This is vnwonted this is aboue nature the flesh whole the skinne not cut for bloude to runne out of all the body and to fall on the earth as it were sweate Lyra receaueth the same According to the Iudgement of diuers n Lyra in Luc. ca. 22. this was supernaturally done that bloud should come foorth in steede of sweate that so Christ euen then might begin to shed his bloud for our saluation Then neither in Diuine nor humane learning is there any necessitie that the feare of your hell paines should be the cause of this sweate which Augustine Prosper and Bernard ascribe vnto Christs wil and power for a mysticall signification as I haue shewed in my * Serm. pag. 38. 39. Sermons Thus see we by the words of the holy Ghost that in the Garden Christs Soule was affected with feare and afflicted with sorrow his prayer prooueth his submission and intention of minde after comfort sent him from heauen by an Angell and his bloudie sweate if we attribute it to nature must come from zeale if we referre it to Christs power aboue Nature might haue many causes to vs vnknowne in particular though we can ghesse at the generall Of all these circumstances actions and affections there can no one direct cause be designed in speciall except in large termes we will say the worke of our Redemption was the cause of them all but neither pains nor suffrings can precisely be determined to be the proper ground of them all since after comfort from heauen he fell to most feruent prayer and therein to his bloudie sweat much lesse can you conclude that hell paines were the right and true cause thereof So that I haue more reason to reiect your maior proposition as apparently false than you haue right to pronounce it firme because you can denie mine assertion by flinging off all the Fathers as vnworthy to haue their iudgements regarded outfacing the Scriptures with phrases and figures to bring them to your bent But in the kinds of paines which Christ suffered in the Garden we doubt as much as in the causes of his agonie You must therefore declare what maner of paines you meane in your proposition before we shall fully vnderstand you p Defenc. pag. 91. li. 16. You meane it seemeth that Christ suffered paines in his soule by reason of the strength and zeale of his holy affections and that those were the proper and maine causes of that his most wofull and miraculous agonie and complaint Therefore not only extraordinarie paines inflicted vpon him by way of proper punishment as my proposition intendeth You seeke nothing but by confusion to couer and colour your absurd and false doctrines and that maketh you huddle and heape things together without all distinction or exposition Christes agonie in the Garden was before any paines inflicted on his bodie or soule other than feare or sorrow which were painfull affections rising from diuers occasions and causes as we shall afterward see His complaint
on the Crosse was in the midst and extreamest of his paines now inherent and afflicting both soule and body You couple Christes agonie in the Garden with his complaint on the Crosse and yoke them together as proceeding both from one direct and particular cause which breedeth more doubt in my answer that should containe both in one than trueth in your argument that obiecteth both at once That the Reader may therefore perceiue wheâ—…eof we reason and so the better obserue the difference betwixt our assertions let meadmonish him that as euill to mans sense or reason dependeth on time either past present or to come so the impression that is thereby made in the soule of Euill past present or to come worketh sorow paine and feare in the souâ—…e of man man is either â—…orrow paine or feare Not that these wordes are not sometimes confounded and their causâ—…s conioined as sorow and feare haue paine in them that is a sense of â—…uill past or approching as well in others as in our selues and the continuance of paine may be feared euen whiles the present greeuance is suffered but that we can exprâ—…sse no truth nor admitt no speach of these things yf we keepe not their names distinguished as their impressions and passions are somtimes we make but two as timor and dolor feare and griefe and then we comprise the third which is sorrow for any good thâ—…ng past or lost in us or others vnder griefe which is the offence of mind that euill either presâ—…nt in sense or fresh in memory bringeth with it SORROVV then Sorrow I call the grieuous remembrance of our owne euils suffered or of their euils past or approching whom we loue FEARE is the doubt dislike of future euill to our selues Feare or others as also the declining of imminent euill and shrinking at the sight thereof Both thâ—…se are painfull affections and impressions of euill which according to their degrees and causes do often so farre oppresse and burden the soule in this life that they speedily part the soule from the bodie and both consist in the apprehension and estimation that the soule maketh of euill foreseene or suffered for some men feare that which others doe not and some regard not that which others exceedingly grieue at and so feare and sorrow require not onlie the cogitation and cognition but the iudgement câ—…nsure of the soule which PAINE doth not For paine dependeth neither Paine on the action nor imagination of the soule but is an absolute sense of present and inherent euill that naturally offendeth the soule for example in the paines of the bodie the soule naturally feeleth all offence rising within the bodie or violently offred vnto the bodiâ—… though she knewe not whence or how that paine commeth Therefore I make paine as it is distinct from feare and sorrow and riseth from neither of them to be a naturall and absolute passion and sense of euill present and inherent in soule or bodie q 1. Iohn 4. feare hath painfulnesse saith Saint Iohn and sorrow not only r 2. Cor. 2. swalloweth vp men but s 2. Cor. 7. causeth death as Paule writeth and experience teacheth yea t Prou. 13. hope differred afflicteth the soule saieth Salomon So that all our affections may haue griefe in them loue and ioy not excepted when they are disappointed and sorrow feare may be mitigated but not separated from griefe and dislike yet in neither of them is the euill present inherent nor the sense and feeling thereof absolute or meerely passiue but according as the mind conceaueth and esteemeth of the causes and obiects thereof so the griefe of feare and sorow increaseth or decreaseth Now touching Christes agonie in the Garden the Scripture auoucheth that feare and sorrow possessed and grieued his mind but that an absolute or inherent paine was inflicted on Christes soule by the immediat hand of god either in the Garden or on the Crosse this is a late and lew de deuice of yours it hath no ground nor proofe in the Scriptures And yf by paines you meane this absolute kind of torment impressed on Christes soule by Gods owne hand as you would haue it I vtterly denie that any such paines presently felt were parts or causes of Christs agonie in the Garden and so your proposition that you fained to be firme hath not one true word in it u Defenc. pag. 91. li. 27. Let vs trie your proofes for it and mine against it you meane no such matter as you pretend For first you tooke hold of Christs feare and sorrow which were painefull affections and when you haue thereby gotten the name of paine into Christes agonie you slide from his affections were they neuer so painefull and shuffle in your absolute torments of Christes soule from the immediat hand of god vnder the name of proper punishment and vengeance for sinne to be the true causes of his agonie yf you thinck I mistake you looke back to your iustified reason so lately iustled in and to the fathers which you brought to confirme the same and see whether I wrong you or no. your assumption and illation there were these Christ x Defenc. pag. â—…8 li. 2. succoureth vs in the feeling of the terrors of god and releaseth vs of the sorrowes vnmeasureable that rise thereof therefore Christ himselfe had experience of them Terrors are feares of thinges vnwoonted which make vs tremble and sorrowes are expresly named by you both which were affections in Christ as they are in vs. you cited out of Cyrill that y Ibid. li. 11. vnlesse Christ had feared and sorrowed at his passion wee had not beene quit from feare and sorrow and out of Ambrose that Christ z li. 38. in his agonie with the sorrow of his soule did extinguish the sorow of our soules As also that he caried about him our feares and our affections a Defenc. pag. 48. li. 17. minus mihi contulerat nisimeum suscepisset affectum Christ had done lesse for me if he had not admitted MINE AFFECTIONS Now when the affections of feare and sorow are confessed in Christes agonie you reiect that as absurd and will heare of no paines but of the torments of the damned from Gods immediat hand on the soule of Christ which though you neither do nor can prooue yet you hope with prating and wrangling to seeme to say somewhat b Defenc. pag. 89. li. 28. Before we come to proofs we must know that this your Resolution as you call it is first most vaine also directly contrary to your selfe and then altogether vnâ—…rue and presumed by wide coniecture as God willing I will presently shew Performe but one of these challenges to be true and take all the rest as granted for your small paines therein bestowed but your dreames are so violent that when you sticke in the mire you thinke you flie in the aire You will shew vs your owne erroneous and
presumptuous follie and other shew of any matter worth the medling with you do make none c Defenc. pag. 91. li. 32. First I heartily intreat the Christian Reader to marke well and to consider how your L. doth contriue three notable equiuocations in these few words Christ suffered in his soule the wrath of God which you seeme to grant but in trueth you doe not And if we adde also the paines of hel then he opposeth a fourth fallacy against vs. And these three or foure are the only pillars of his doctrine I make no pillars of my doctrine but the manifest words of the Holy Ghost teaching vs by the Scriptures the price and maner of our redemption which lest any man should thinke I diuert and wrest to my priuate or secret conceits as you doe I shew the ancient and true Church of Christ did so beleeâ—…e them and expound them before me The pillars of your doctrine are phrases follies and falsities which if you did not hide with generall and ambiguous words the considerate Reader without intreatie would soone marke your mysteries but because you are so kinde as heartily to pray the Reader to marke how you play the man I desire him likewise to obserue how shamefully you come short of your great brags and euen betray your cause to him that well considereth it d Defenc. pag. 91. li. 37. For the three former your first equiuocation is in the word Suffered and about it wee deale in this place e Et pag. 92. li. 19. Now your next equiuocation is in this He suffered in soule Your next in Gods wrath Both which I haue plainly shewed before As also your fourth fallacie which may be called Fallacia accidentis To the three last notable equiuocations as he calleth them here is all that this Defensor speaketh in this place where he would haue thee Christian Reader so considerately to marke some maruellous matters And thus shalt thou often be troubled with his vaine tatling when thou most expectest either his proofs or his promises He sendeth thee backe to peruse his former pages where thou shalt finde as little to the purpose as here thou doest though words he wanted not to couer his conceits Is there be any thing in those pages proued by him which I haue not in the same places confuted I am content to hazzard the perill of thy censure Howbeit I thinke thou mayest perceiue by my carriage that I desire to auoid and preuent all ambiguities as much as in me lieth I speake as plainly as my simple abilitie will suffer me I distinguish thinges as euidently as either the matter permitteth or the trewth requireth And therefore he that in all his defence hath yet vttered not one distinct and cleere sentence touching his cause but clowded and cloaked with proper and meere and such like shifts and shadowes neuer expounded by himselfe and knowen to no man but himselfe hath small reason though as much in this as in the rest to say that fallacies are the Pillars of my doctrine But if thou beleeue Pedlers praising their owne wares then maiest thou credit this booke-maker craking of his cleere and Sunne-shine proofes which he himselfe neither expresseth nor vnderstandeth The equiuocation of the word SVFFERING which in this place his mastershipp will deale withall will giue thee a tast what thou shalt looke for in the rest f Defenc. pag. 92. li 1. The common and ordinarie phrase vnderstandeth herein Christes feeling of paines inflicted on him by way of PROPER punishment and satisfaction for sinne which he vndertooke for vs. Onely this in the ordinarie and vsuall manner of speach is signified by Christes suffering or his passion and so we alwaies vnderstand by it This is one of your enlightned and purified expositions which is as faire and bright as the darknes of Egypt Doe men vsually ordinarily describe Christs passion to be nothing els but the feeling of paines inflictedon him by way of proper punishment who vseth these wordes by way of proper punishment besides your selfe and your adherents who vnder that colour would secretly conuey the paines of the damned into the soule of Christ for what is the proper punishment of sinne that which all sinners not Redeemed by Christ must endure or that which all men being sinners doe endure or that which none endured but Christ alone because it was proper to the dignitie of his person with that punishment which god laied on him by the hands and mouthes of men to satisfie the iustice of God for our sinnes and vtterly to abolish the guilt and wages of our sinne Proper may be either to the damned whose sinnes are neuer pardoned or proper to sinne in all mankinde euer since the first man forsooke his Creator or proper to Christes person and not common to him with the damned Which of all these senses do you containe in the word Proper You spake euen now of equiuocations and made a grieuous complaint to your Reader that I meant to circumuent you with ambiguities and what is this but to turne your Readers eyes aside on me whiles you play your part with the maine worke of Christes passion for mans Redemption how often haue I chalenged in you this shifting with proper and improper when and where pleased you Christes sufferings in all mens speeches saue yours were farre larger than his passion He suffered afliction all the time of his life yea the whole course of his life was a continuall suffering of reproches disdaines dispites besides the naturall infirmities of our flesh as hunger cold wearines weeping and such like which in his person were all sufferings and yet no man calleth his life his passion his passion we take to be the manner of his death and so all his sufferings from the Garden to the graue imposed on him by the hands mouthes or harts of men betraying forsaking or pursuing him were parts of his passion The false accusing and vniust condemning him the mocking reproching and reuiling him to be wicked and forsaken of God were parts of his passion and yet these were no inherent nor sensible paines of which you would seeme to speake when you exclude his affections of feare and griefe of minde as no parts of his passion g Defenc. pag. 91. li. 6. You cunningly take another rare sense of this word as it signifieth the affections of the mind in Christ wholy bent to holines and obedience of god you are a learned Squire that doe not vnderstand the soule suffereth as well by her affections as by her senses and that in Christ the harts and tongues of the Iewes concurred to his passion as well as their hands The affections and perturbations of the soule are vsually and properly called by the Greeke fathers 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 and by the Latine passiones passions or sufferings of the minde The Apostles applie the word 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 SVFFERINGS both in Christ and in vs as euenly and
and toies That I make but one cause to witte Religious feare in the 23 Page of my Sermons looke there who list he shall find you a fabler In the fift cause that might be of Christs agonie which was the deprecation of Gods wrath I yeelded to some mens speeches so farre for quietnes sake that it â—…ight be said Christ feared that is l Serm. pag. 22 li. 2â—… shunned euerlasting death and that the sight of gods wrath l Serm. pag. 21. li. 19. tempered and made ready for the finnes of men which the Scripture calleth a cupp n Pa. 22. li 35. might for a time somewhat astonish the humane nature of Christ yet so that the sight of our sinnes and the wages thereof o Pa. 23. li. 2. impressed nothing that is no feare in the soule of Christ but a religious feare to sorow for the one and pray against the other Here are expresly named religious feare sorow and zealous praier occasioned by the sight of the cuppe of Gods wrath prepared for our sinnes How then doth this exclude the rest of the causes which are there precedent or consequent or how come you to cast away Christes sorow for sinne and praier against the desert of our euill deedes whereof the first rose from the submission that Christ made vnto Gods wrath prouoked and the second from the compassion that Christ had towards men endangered and to leaue but one where I name three Are you so well skilled in the Scriptures that you doe not know a Religious feare of God compriseth the whole seruice of God and therefore might much more containe the holines of Christs affections when he submitted himselfe to the will and hand of God for our sakes What rudenes then or rashnes or both is this when I note diuers partes or effects of one thing or vse diuers words to describe one and the same matter for you to quote out contrarieties by Arithmetick because the wordes be different and neuer to weigh the sense in which they accord So trifle you with the two generall causes as if they could not containe the six speciall that I say might be of Christs agonie when yet those six are but remembrances of some respects that Christ might haue in his feare and sorow and those two comprehend all six as parts or consequents of Christs submission to God and compassion on men Neither doe I pretend or professe that euery of these six was the whole and entire cause of his agony It is your dottage so to dreame and no piece of my mind These six and many moe reasons and occasions Christe might haue at that time to feare and sorow wherin I doe not determine which was the full and true cause of that agonie but how many respects might lead him to feare and sorrow at that present which I doe not conclude as certaine but propose as possible and farre more probable then your reall paines of the damned supposed at that instant actually to torment the soule of Christ. Leaue therefore your one two and six to Tilers to tell their pinnes or Wittalls to number their Geese and shew that either I determine any precise or particuler cause ef Christs agonie thereby to deserue mine owne censure as you doe or that those six which I mention may not be referred to those two generalls which I note that so at least you may make me disagree with my selfe p Defenc pag. 92. li. 32. Last of all this your resolution making Christs piety and pittie to be the onely proper and maine cause of all his wofull passion is vtterly false and vntrew hauing no ground but meere coniectures Your memorie is as brickle as your reason is feeble Those six causes of Christes agonie and not of all his wofull passion as you lightly leape you know not whither I did no otherwise propose then that they q Serm. pag. 17. li. 28. 29. might be euery one of them more likely and more godly then your deuice of hell paines As for the onlie cause of that agonie I medled with no such matter my words are euideâ—…t to the contrarie r Ibid. li. 30. Others at their leasures may thinke on more which I shal be content to hâ—…are but that piety or charity or both must be the Rootes of Christs feare and sorow and not infidelitie and distrust of Gods fauour towards his person or function nor the Reall and inherent sense of Hell paines common to him with the damned as you doe peremptorilie but pestilently dreame in that I said I was resolute and so I yet remaine And you shall sooner proue your selfe to be the man in the Moone then Christes soule to haue beene tormented with any reall paines inflicted on him by the immediate hand of God which position of yours hath impietie for the ground and follie for the proofe howsoeuer you thinck to face it out with your insolent verbositie s Defenc pag. 92. li. 37. Your first cause is submission to the maiestie of God-sitting in iudgment when Christ was thus astonished and agonized therewith I pray thee Christian Reader to remember in all these causes what was my purpose and promise euen now specified not to conclude The first cause concurring to Christs agoniâ—… these as necessarie and entire causes of Christes agonie but to shew them possible and more likely and Godlie then his Pagent of Hell paines inflicted on the soule of Christ. The reason that led me to set downe this as one of the causes that MIGHT BE of Christes agonie for so I alwaies meane though perhaps in course of speach I alwaies adde not so much were the wordes of our Sauiour t Iohn 1â—… Now is the Iudgment of this worlde now shall the Prince of this world be cast out And I if I were lifte vp from the earth will draw all men vnto me This said hee signifiyng what death he should die The iudgment which here our Sauiour noteth was not at that instant when he spake these words but at an houre to come when Satan the Prince of this worlde should be u Iohn 16. iudged that is eiected and cast out from x Reuel 12. accusing the Saints and the x Reuel 12. saluation of God and power of his Christ established in heauen So much the words of Christ imported when he said Now shall the Prince of this world be cast out and not now alreadie is he cast out This Iudgment then was Redemptorie not condemnatoriâ—… wherein the sonne of God in our flesh was admitted to make satisfaction for the sinnes of all that should beleeue in him and to pay the price that should appease the iustice of God prouoked by our misdeeds and so to reconcile vs to the fauour of God by the bloud of his Crosse that there might be no more place for Satan to accuse vs any longer y Reuel 12. night and day before God as otherwise he did The issue
his bodie on the tree and whose 〈◊〉 was shed for many sor remission of sinnes Your infliction of hell paines on the soule of Christ is no such trifle that it may be lightly taken vp for your pleasure or humorously surmised vpon your vaine coniectures you must euidently and ineuitablely prooue it before any wise or sober Christian will or should beleeue it Châ—…istes feare and agonie you thinke could haue no other cause Of all others this can neuer be concluded to haue beene the cause since there is no witnesse nor word thereof in all the Scriptures That euerlasting damnation was due to our sinnes we haue no doubt but that any such iudgement could be decreed or executed against the Sonne of God or against any part of his person we lesse doubt Wherefore it is most manifest to all that list not to mixe their desperate deuices with Gods eternall trueth that no such iudgement could be giuen against the person of Christ as we should haue 〈◊〉 or as the damned feele but the i Esa. 53. chastisement of our peace was layd vpon him and k Heb. 5. though he were the Sonne yet by the things which he suffered he learned obedience It is no iudgement you will say where nothing is condemned In the finall iudgement of God against the wicked both their sinnes and their persons shall be condemned that is their persons shal be euerlastingly reiected and adiudged to perpetuall torments of bodie and soule in hell fire for their sinnes which God iustly hateth and punisheth In the l 1. Pet. 4. iudgement which beginneth at the house of God sinne is condemned in their flesh as it was in Christes but their persons are beloued in Christ and so cleansed from sinne by him that sanctifieth himselfe for their sakes and whose bloud clenseth them from all their sinnes The paterne of which iudgement was precedent in Christ their head to whose m Rom. 8. image the whole bodie must be conformed that n 2. Tim. 2. suffering with him they may raigne with him and being o 1. Pet. 4. condemned as touching men in the flesh they may liue as touching God in the spirit There must be the same minde in vs that was in Christ euen as there is the same condemnation in our flesh that was in his For in Christ and all his members sinne was condemned in the flesh that their spirits might liue to God and their bodies be raised againe to be partakers of the same blisse with their spirits The Scriptures therefore doe not appoint the iudgement of hell or of the damned vnto Christ and his members but only the destruction of their flesh ioyned with the saluation of their spirits What need had Christ you will aske to feare this iudgement As Christ had lesse need to feare the iudgement seat of God than all his members so had he more will care and power to giue God his due than all the rest of his brethren And therefore approching to God for sinners and with sinne as he vndertooke their persons and cause that is to present them to God and to profer satisfaction for their sinnes so he taught vs all our duties which is to approch the throne of Maiestie with all reuerence and feare when we beholde his passing glorie and our exceeding infirmitie and in faith of his goodnesse and feare of his greatnesse to tremble and shake before him This Christian submission which God requireth of all men Christ did most of all performe when he presented vs and our cause to God and therefore prostrate flat on the earth he humbled himselfe with greater feare and trembling but without distrust or doubt of Gods fauour than euer man before or since did This feare and trembling with all submission and deuotion yeelded by the humane nature of Christ to the diuine Maiestie of God you no way like but in a selfe conceit will haue it to be the feare of desperate and damned persons and Christes soule to be actually tormented with the same paines that are the sharpest in hell and all this you gather vpon none other ground but for that Christ exceedingly feared and sorrowed in the Garden But if no man guided by Gods spirit may heare the words doe the works or receiue the messengers of God but with feare and trembling as a seruice and duetie belonging to the Creatour from the weakenesse of the creature how much more might the humane nature of Christ now offering vs all that were sinfull to the presence of God with infinite desire and most ardent prayer to make recompence in his owne person for our offences and so through his loue and sauour with God to reconcile vs to God how much more I say might Christ in our cause and in our names shew all possible feare and trembling to so great Maiestie so mightily displeased with vs And therefore in either respect both of his owne religious humilitie and our sinfull infirmity he might performe this seruice and submission vnto the throne of Gods heauenly presence p Defenc. pag. 93. li. 32. Your testimonies touching men sinfull make nothing to the purpose at all for these could not by reason of their sinnes endure the verie presence of Gods Maiestie being in any measure reuealed vnto them but Christ in himselfe being free from all sinne could be in no such case Your exceptions are more friuolous and no way fit your fansies for what if conscience of sinne breed an amazed feare in men when the glorious presence of God is in any measure reuealed vnto them doth that exclude the religious affection submission of feare and trembling which mans weakenesse in this life oweth to the diuine Maiesty q Esa. 66. Him will I respect saith God that is poore in spirit and trembleth at my words Not only Gods glory reuealed but his word denounced requireth submission and reuerent trembling r Phil. 2. Worke your saluation sayth the Apostle with feare and trembling not meaning men should alwayes be amazed or that God still reuealed his glorious presence but that our infirmitie remembred and his Maiestie considered we should do all things commanded by him with feare and trembling Of the Corinthians Paul testifieth that they receiued Tite s 2. Cor. 7. with feare and trembling Such reuerence the faithfull yeeld to the words and works of God that they tremble at the presence of his messengers And lest you should thinke that only conscience of sinne and the brightnesse of Gods presence impresse this affection the Apostle requireth seruants to obey their t Ephes. 6. carnall masters with feare and trembling and witnesseth of himselfe when he preached the Gospell to the Corinthians he u 1. Cor. 2. was amongst them in feare and much trembling So that not onely guilt of sinne maketh men to feare and flie the sight of God as in Adam when he first transgressed and in Peter before he was called whose words you abuse to elude
he groned in spirite 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 and troubled or affected him selfe If this Rule be true which hath the grounds of faith and the words or the holie Ghost for a foundation then your assertion is false and against the faith that tkese were alwaies in Christ and alwaies caused an he 〈◊〉 in him For you imply a continuall necessitie of sorrow and griefe in the Soule of Christ where the Scriptures and Fathers teach vs that nothing could 〈◊〉 griefe or sorrow on him but when he himselfe would And that Iesus sometimes reicyced and l Luc. 10. v. 21. exulted in Spirit giuing thankes to his Father for hiding the mysteries of his kingdome from the wise and prudent and reuealing them to seelie ones the 〈◊〉 is euident You therefore as your manner is graunt that which is false and deny that which is true For what if Christ often though not alwaies sorrowed for these three aforesaid is that any proofe that 〈◊〉 Passion approching where he sawe 〈◊〉 lewes should call for the vengeance of his bloud to be on them and their children and was now by most earnest ardent prayer to obtaine remission of sinnes direction of his spirit and protection from Satan for his whole Church the Time and place now 〈◊〉 requiring it he should not with greater sorrow behold the one and with more 〈◊〉 zeale intreat the other But m Desenc pa. 94. li. 37. I strangely deceiue my selfe you say if I thinke that any or ali of these did so farre exceede in him as to procure his most dreadfull and bloudy Agony When I heare you speake some truth or see you vnderstand any thing right I will more regard your word then now I doe That these things might be the causes thereof shall plainly appeare to the sober and aduised Reader when we come to the discussing of them Howbeit I doe not say that euery one of these sixe was the whole cause of his Agonie as you childishly carpe or that these sixe were the sole causes of his Agonie but these respects were such as might most exceedingly grieue and most inwardly affect the Soule of Christ making now way by prayer to procure the course of mans Redemption to be actually and effectually decreed and pronounced at his instance which he would after perfect with patience Neither are there greater workes in mans redemption then these that were now in hand with which if you thinke it not likely nor possible the Soule of our Sauiour should be mightily affected your erroneous Imagination is farre stranger then my position of pietie and possibilitie for as if you aske me what the Angell that came from heauen said to Christ in the Garden I must openly professe I take vpon me no such knowledge but leaue Gods secrets to himselfe and his Sonne so what occasions besides these might at that instant affect the Soule of Christ I dare not determine though you be so desperate that you nothing doubt Christ then felt in Soule from the immediate hand of God the selfe same paines which the damned doe in hell Notwithstanding the Scriptures insinuate no such suspition much lesse auouch any such Doctrine for mans redemption n Defenc pag. 95 li. 1. For the Reiection of the Iewes what reason bring you Christ wept ouer their Cittie ergo now at his Passion he was driuen into his dreadfull Agonie for this cause You must make your owne match or else you will quickly marre all Where I professed it impossible certainly to conclude the true cause of Christs Agonie your wisedome taketh a part of my words and clappeth on a Conclusion to them of your owne stamping and then you say the Argument is nought and so nimble you be at nothing that where I repeate sixe causes that might be concurrent therein you will haue me inferre that euery one of them was the whole and sole cause thereof But your mastership is to warme to be wise and to selfe-willed to be sound you doe not so much as see or care why I tooke this in for one of the causes that might meete in this Agonie The reuerent o Sermo pag. 19. li. 4. regard I had to the Iudgements of Ambrose Ierom Augustine and Bede who obserued this before me as one of the causes that might be of Christs sorrow in the Garden made me number this amongst the rest howsoeuer you spurne them away like foote-bals and thinke with a wilde gallop to winne the Goale But soft Sir first their opinions lie in your way which wise men will respect before your emptie wordes and lasie likelihoods that haue no salt in them besides the sharpnesse of your humour Secondly my reasons to my purpose are auaileable enough though you mishape them with a senselesse error of your own as if euerie of these six were the single and sole cause of this agonie There can no one particular cause be assigned of Christes feare sorrow and zeale in the Garden but since himselfe is a witnesse that his Soule was 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 on euery side pressed with sorrow my proofes which you cannot auoide inferre that amongst others this might be one cause of his sorrow And so much those Fathers professe as I haue formerly shewed and you cannot decline them but with impudent flurting at them that p Defenc. pag. 95. li. 15. this verily cannot stand with any reason But of our Reasons let the Reader Iudge Christ wept at the sight of Ierusalem when he remembred her desolation by the hands of the Romanes What griefe then was it to him in all reason to foresee the reiection of that people from the sauour of God by their rash and wicked desire to haue his bloud on them and their children at the time of his arraignment before Pilate If Moses and Paul so vehemently 〈◊〉 at the fall of their bretheren according to the flesh that for their sakes the one wished to be wiped out of the Booke of God the other most sacredly protested the great heauinesse and continuall anguish that he felt in hart for them how much more then did it grieue the Sauiour of the world who farre exceeded both the other in compassion and mercie to see himselfe that came to blesse them and saue them to be the ruine and stone of offence that should stumble them and their children striking them with perpetuall blindnesse and bruizing them with euerlasting perdition through their vnbeliefe To this what answere you q Defenc. pag. 95. li. 28. It prooueth that Christ surely had very great pittie and commiseration of them but nothing else in the world I professed to prooue no more Why then should not this be one of the causes that mooued Christ to sorrow in the Garden where he confesâ—…ed his Soule was on euery side heauie r Ibid. li. 30. Christ might haue farre greater pittie of them then Moses or Paul had and yet he was able to carrie his affection farre more patiently
him vnto so it might be for Gods glorie and their good that were his kinsmen after the flesh What is meant by separation from Christ and whether Paul wished an euerlasting deprination of all blisse or no the best Interpreters do not agree Nicolaus Hemmingius a learned professor of true religion commenting vpon Pauls Epistles sayth x Hemmingius in ca. 9. ep ad Rom. What shall we say of this affection in Paul Hoc 〈◊〉 teneamus principium quòd nihil 〈◊〉 absurdi nihil impij nihil contra salutem animae suae nihil contra dilectionem Christi spiritu enim Christi agebatur Paulus Hoc stabilito principio necesse est hanc separationem a Christo non intelligendam esse de internâ separatione ae Christo aeternâ sed de externâ tantum temporali quâ 〈◊〉 perire in carne vt saluentur alij in spiritu Let vs holde this for a maine principle that Paul wished no absurd no wicked thing nothing against the saluation of his owne soule nor against the loue of Christ for Paul was in this guided with the spirit of Christ. This foundation lying fast we must necessarily vnderstand this separaâ—…ion from Christ which Paul wished not of any internall or eternall separation from Christ but only of an externall and temporall whereby he wisheth to perish in the flesh that others might be saued in the spirit This is another of Ieroms Expositions in his questions to Algasia y Hieron ad Algasiam quaest 9. Wee shall finde the same affection in Moses and Paul towards the flocke committed vnto them A good shepheard layeth downe his life for his sheepe which is all one with this of Paul I wished to be separate from Christ and with that of Moses Wipe mee out of the booke which thou hast written And withall see how great the Apostles loue was to Christ that he desired to die for Christ and to perish alone so all sorts of men might beleeue in him Perire autem non in perpetuum sed imprasentiarum Perish Paul would not euer lastingly but for this present life He would therefore perish in the flesh that others might be saued in the spirit and lose his owne bloud to preserue their soules Haymo likewise z Haymo in 9. ca. ad Rom. Hoc loquebatur de occisione corporis sui cùm nullo modo optaret mentis affectu separaria Christo. This Paul spake of the killing of his bodie when by no meanes he wished the affection of his minde to be seuered from Christ. Photius and Oecumenius in their Greeke Scholies haue another interpretation which a In Comment linguâ—… 〈◊〉 fol. 700. Budeus a man of no small iudgement in the Greeke tongue doth follow b Photius apud Oecumenium in 9. cap. epist. ad Rom. 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 Paul doth not say he would be made a separate from Christ that is now to be diuided from Christ that were most detestable but he could wish to haue beene still a separate from Christ that is as yet to haue continued an alien and not to that present time to haue cleaned vnto Christ. In effect Paul sayth I would haue wished mine owne selfe not yet to haue come to Christ but to How the Graecians expound Pauls words this day to haue remained separate from him if this might haue holpen your entrance and faith in Christ. This in effect Benedictus Aretius a learned Expositor of our time doth embrace Paul c Aretius in 9. cap. epist. ad Romanos desireth himselfe for his kinsmen the Iewes to be anathema from Christ that is for a time to be a stranger from Christ that in the meane while his nation might haue place in Christ and himselfe at last be saued with them The words may likewise be taken for an imperfect speech as though he had sayd I could wish this if it were lawfull for me salua pietate by the rules of pietie I would doe it for Christes glory who could not want meanes to restore me againe from this anathema or curse Chrysostoms exposition best pleaseth Peter Martyr and Zanchius as if Paul had beene content for Christs glory and the Saluation of the Iewes not to haue beene seuered from the loue and fauour of Christ but if it were possible thereby to do them good from the blisse and happinesse that Christ would bestow on him Howbeit they both make it simply impossible and that euen to Pauls knowledge that this should or could be d Peter Martyr in 9. cap. Epist. ad Romanos Neque mirari debemus Paulum hoc optasse cum non posset fieri illum enim dubium non est ad praedestinatos pertinuisse voluntas enim nostra saepe rapitur ad ea quae sieri non possunt Neither ought we to maruaile saith Peter Martyr that Paul wished that which could not be for he no doubt was of the number of the Elect since our will is often caried to things impossible e 〈◊〉 de tribus 〈◊〉 li. 5. cap. 3. 〈◊〉 2. In the word Anathema separated from Christ I consider saith Zanchius two very diuerse and distinct things towitte separation from the loue and fauour of Christ and priuation from the fruite of Christs loue which fruite is blessednesse it selfe or a blessed and euerlasting life in heauen with Christ. That Paul wished to be seuered from Christ meaning from the loue and fauour of Christ and to become execrable vnto Christ for the safetie of his bretheren Dari nullo modo potest aut debet this in no wise may or ought to be graunted For this is repugnant to that which he said before in the ende of the eight Chapter yea to the Principall cause which led him to his desire The ground whereof was not so much his affection to his bretheren as his loue chiefly to Christ. And comparing Moses words and wish with Pauls he saith f Ibidem I doe not doubt but as Paul did no way desire to be seuered from Christ that is from his communion and fauour so Moses by no meanes did aske that God would rather strike him out of the number of his friends then destroy the people Neque enim hoc potuit salua pietate expetere aut petere for neither could he desire nor aske this with any pietie but as Paul wished him selfe alone rather if it were possible to be depriuâ—…d of eternall happinesse then all the Israelites to be reiected from grace and thereby the name of Christ and glory of God to be endangered by blasphemous minds and mouthes g Ibidem Neither is it any impediment which is opposed touching the immutabilitie of Gods election and his Iustice against which Moses seemeth to tend when he desireth that God would destroy him being an Innocent and ordained to saluation For Moses Prayer is to be vnderstoode with this Condition if it be possible and yet he knew it was not possible There is a fift Exposition of this
apprehension with inflamed and vehement affection of prayer to direct the course and strengthen the force of all his sufferings that receauing comfort and courage from aboue he might wade through the worke of our redemption with greater assurance and confidence in the eyes of all his enemies to whom he would shew neither feare nor sorrow but silent and constant patience r Defenc. pag. 98. li. 1. If you vrge that these Fathers are so resolute for these causes as their words pretend then you your selfe abuse them more than euer I did or meane to doe where you say it is curiositie to examine presumption to determine impossibilitie to conclude as these doe what was the true cause of Christes agonie A wise answere forsooth and woorthy the vigor of your wit to say their words are so resolute that I condemne them more than you when they with all inoderation temper their speech and by the generalitie or diuersitie of occasions that might engender feare to Christ in the Garden shew they meane nothing lesse than to conclude any direct or particular cause of that agonie Ambroses words are s Ambros. in Luc. lib. 10. de tristitia dolore Christi Nec illud distat a vero Neither is that dissonant from the trueth And againe s Ambros. in Luc. lib. 10. de tristitia dolore Christi Et fortasse ideo tristis est And perhaps he was therefore sorowfull And so Augustine t August in Psal. 87. Non incongruè nos dicere aestimo I thinke we speake not without some reason The rest admonish in generall that Christ sorowed not for himselfe but for vs. Doth this conclude any speciall and certaine cause of that agonie But when you can not otherwise decline them you thinke it enough to shift them off with such a iest as this is Indeed they touch your free holde somewhat neerely when they say Christ sorowed not for any sufferings of his owne this you impugne for life and if their assertion in this be true they turne your hell paines cleane out of Christes passion For if Christ suffered as you dreame the death of the damned he had good cause to feare and grieue at that which he felt but with one consent Hilarie Ambrose Ierome and Bede reiect that as false that Christ did thus feare and grieue for any sufferings of his owne Whether therefore you or I most abuse these Fathers let the Reader iudge And howsoeuer your helpers haue somewhat haltered your headlong humours not long since as I haue sormerly shewed you flung off these Fathers in this very case as u Trea. pa. 67. fond absurd and voide of likelihood reason and sense which whether it be an abuse to so graue and godly writers I leaue the Reader to censure as he seeth cause x Defenc pag. 98. li. 6. Fourthly you alleage his inward sorow and zealous griefe for the sinnes of the world to be the maine and chiefe cause of this agonie Surely euen to rehearse these your arguments is refutation of them enough Your peâ—…uish peruerting of my reasons and clapping a The fourth cause concurring to Christs agonie conclusion vnto them against my expresse purpose and premonition is indeed as soone refuted as rehearsed but referre them to that for which I bring them and then your bragges are more than boyish I plainly professed in my Sermons that since the Scriptures expressed no particular cause of Christes agonie in the Garden it was impossible certainly to conclude any direct or determinate cause thereof What follie then is it in you to suppose that I goe about to inferre that which precisely I forwarned was impossible to be concluded Of the causes which I produced I professed no more but that they were consonant to the rules of pietie and might concurre in Christes agonie which you do grant after your nice maner by confessing these wanted not and when you haue yeelded as much as I vrged then you runne backe to your sillie shift and say they were not the maine or chiefe causes of that agonie your hell paines are left out which must haue a place as you thinke in that perplexitie of Christs in the Garden But sir first prooue your hell paines were then and there inflicted on Christs soule and then you shall haue leaue to couple that to the causes of Christs agonie Till you so doe in vaine you denie the rest for want of this It sufficeth me to shew religious and zealous respects of pietie and charitie which might mooue Christ to those affections and other proofe of voluntarie actions and inward affections can none be brought And yet you may remember sir Defensor though you dissemble it that when you trample so readily but yet so rudely on my reasons you wrong the ancient fathers whence I collected them more then you doe mee Hilarie and Ambrose doe peremptorily teach that Christs sorow in the Garden was not for himselfe nor his owne sufferings but for our sinnes and woundes And though you refute me with breathing out more absurdities then sentences in this your defence yet the sober Reader will not suffer you so soone to deface their iudgements and opinions whom I follow But we shall heare some doubtie dispute to mainetaine this matter y Defenc. pag. 98. li. 9. All these are proper parts of his holinesse and righteousnesse as I haue said but no proper parts or causes of his bloody and most dreadfull agonie that is of his sacrifice satisfying for sin Onely his paines were which then he fâ—…lt and feared All these were religious respects of feare and sorow which wanted not in Christs agonie as you grant now whether they were painfull or no a man would thinke should be no great doubt but with one that hath lost both witte and sense Saint Iohn saith z 1. Iohn 4. Feare hath painfullnesse a August de verâ—…is Domini secundum Iohannem Sermone 42. Sunt duo tortores animae timor et dolor There are two tormentors of the soule feare and sorow saith Austen And who that hath but his fiue witts doth not feele that feare and sorow are afflictions and vexations of the soule Wherfore your excluding them from the sacrifice for sinne because they are no paines is a learned peece of worke which neuer a Morter-maker in England would stumble at besides you Let shame if not sense teach you that feare and sorow are very painfull afflictions of the soule and rather comprised then exempted in Christs sufferings by that text of Scripture which you pretend and therefore necessarie respects and pertinences to the sacrifice for sin b Psal. 51. The sacrifice of God is a troubled spirit saith Dauid Why then should not the affliction of Christs spirit with feare and sorow be properly a part of his sacrifice and suffering for sin They were proper parts you say of his holinesse And might they not also when they grew vehement grieuous be parts
euery man his owne conscience in which of these twaine he is like vnto Christ. For they must be conformed to his sufferings before they shall be partakers of his glorie If then none shall raigne with Christ but such as haue suffered with Christ which must be hell paines as you defend I leaue it to each mans secret cogitation that shall light on this question how many thousands of good and godly men must giue ouer all hope of saluation since with sighs and sorrowes vnspeakable stirred in them by the holy Ghost for their offending and displeasing the goodnesse of God they are and ought dayly to be acquainted but with the true paines of hell death of the damned in this liâ—…e few Christians haue any communion And if any through distrust of Gods mercies and assault of their owne sinnes be terrified with desperation or dubitation let them assure themselues in either of those they be most vnlike vnto Christ whose faith stood euer fast and fully resolued of Gods fauour both towards his person and function which was the purgation of our sinnes and the reconciliation of God with man r Defenc. pag. 98. li. 28. The fift cause you say might be the Cup of Gods wrath tempered and made readie for the 〈◊〉 of men â—…hich you interpret to be eternall malediction You are no good Thâ—… fift cause conâ—…urring to Christs agonie reporter of my words in auouching that I interpret the Cup of Gods wrath tempered for the sinnes of men to be eternall malediction My words are s Sermo pa. 21. li 22. In this Cup are all maner of plagues punishments for sinne as well spirituall as corpor all eternall as temporall And before I came to declare what Christ might behold and by prayer decline in the mixture of this Cup I expresly forewarned that t Sermo pa. 21. li. 27. diucrse men haue diuersly expounded those words of Christ let this Cup passe from me u li. 36. and in this varietie of iudgements I meant to refuse none that any way agreed with the rules of truth So that I here repeate the opinions of others and onely shew in what sort and sense they must be restrained and referred before they can be concorded with the truth of the Scriptures But let vs heare what you impugne and how x Defenc. pag. 98. li. 30. You say Christ knowing what our sinnes deserued might intentiuely pray to haue that Cup passe from him which was prepared for vs. For vs whom meane you the elect or the reprobate what malediction the whole and absolute paines thereof onely or the eternitie of the continuance thereof also Wrangling is your best refuge when you know not otherwise how to right your selfe Is this so hard a question with you what was the desert and wages of our sinnes by Gods iustice had we not beene redeemed and saued from the wrath to come by Christ Iesus Is it so strange Diuinitie to separate nature from grace and iustice from mercie in the elect that they may discerne what they were and should haue been in them selues without the fauour of God in Christ who freed vs when we were seruants to sinne quickned vs when we were dead in sinne and saued vs when we were iustly wrapped in the same condemnation with others for sinne Doe not all these words Redemption Remission Reconciliation and Saluation in Christ prooue that of our selues and in our selues we were prisoners subiected to sinne and condemned as enemies to God without Christ in whom we are freed pardoned reconciled and saued Your eares are very curious that can not abide to heare what was deserued by our sinnes and prepared for our sins had God dealt with vs in iustice not in mercie for his Sonnes sake It is healthfull and needfull for vs to remember acknowledge what our naturall desert and condition was without Gods heauenly commiseration on vs and election of vs in Christ his Sonne y Defenc. pag. 9â—… li. 35. If you meane the Elect Christ knew that he must not onely see and contemplate but feele and suffer all the whole paines of that punishment which our sinnes deserued and this was prepared for himselfe our ransome payer and not for vs. Christ was not onely to suffer that which in his person should be sufficient in the righteous iudgement of God to appease his anger and purge our sinnes but he was farder to see and behold from what he deliuered vs euen from the wrath to come How should the price and â—…orce of his death be knowen vnto him if he were ignorant what dreadfull and terrible vengeance was reserued and prepared for sinne if he did not redeeme vs Wherefore he was not onely to feele that which should free vs but exactly to view know the rest that was due to our sinnes if he did not auert it And where you proclaime with open mouth that Christ must feele and suffer all the whole paines which our sinnes deserued it is a pestilent and euident impietie For either you must defend that our sinnes deserued not the losse of Gods kingdome and the perpetuall paines of hell fire in bodie and soule or else you must confesse that Christ suffered the same You spake euen now of strange maruailes in Diuinitie These monsters be past maruailes which you prooue onely by your selfe and by your owne surly conceite this was prepared for him and not for vs Was hell fire prepared for Christ he was ordained to be our Sauiour by the sacrifice of himselfe on the Crosse that by his death full of shame and paine he might redeeme the transgressions that were in the former Testament but that hell fire or euerlasting death which is the desert of our sinnes was prepared for him is a Doctrine fit for no man but for him that hath made a shipwracke of his faith to land his fansies on shore Damnation you will say was not prepared for vs but rather Saluation meane you without Christ or in Christ in Christ I haue no doubt but we were before all worlds appointed to be heires of Saluation when in our selues we should deserue farre otherwise But here shewing the meanes of mans redemption I speake of man not yet redeemed and therefore lâ—…ing as yet in the desert and danger of damnation iâ—… Christ did not deliuer him In which sense the Apostle not onely saith z Ephes. 2. We were by nature the children of wrath as well as others but a Rom. 5. by the offence of one death came on all men vnto condemnation Which speech the auncient Fathers doe euery where follow b August Epistoâ—…a 89. Qui per generationem illi condâ—…mnation obligati sunt per regenerationem ab eadem condemnatione soluuntur They which by birth are obliged or fast tied to that condemnation are by regeneration deliuered from that condemnation And so c Idem Epistola 105. merito namque peccati vniuersa massa damnata est By the
desert of sinne the whole masse of mankind was condemned If the Christian faith permit vs to say that we were condemned before we were redeemed since we could not be redeemed but from condemnation how much more lawfull is it for me to say that euerlasting death was deserued by vs and prepared for vs without Christ since the reward of sinne was first prouided for the diuell and his angels before man fell through his inticements and was neuer since vnprepared d Defenc. pag. 9â—… li. 〈◊〉 The truth is he could not by any meanes pray against that or decline that onely vnlesse he were for the time in some astonishment and perturbation of his senses which by the infinitenesse of that paine he well might be yea he could not but be as is afore shewed to haue hapned in Moses and Paul There is as much truth in this as in the rest of your deuices Here are errors as thicke as hops shuffled in vpon your bare word the proofe whereof you bring after at leasure about latter Lammas 1. That Christ felt infinite painâ—…s of hell which you before named all the whole paines which our sinnes deserued 2. That by the infinitenesse of that paine he could not but be in some astonishment and perturbation of his senses which though here you mitigate with some yet afterward you straine it aboue the extreamest degree of astonishment that might be Your words are e Defenc. pag. 128. li 26. Therefore no maruaile though this astonishment in Christ were farre greater then is to be seene in any man that euer was or shall be Wherein you keepe the Sauiour of the world as long and as often as pleaseth yourselfe 3. That against these paines he could not by any meanes pray onely vnlesse he were thus astonished 4. That Paul in his Epistle to the Romanes expressing his affection for the Iewes was likewise astonished and amazed as not knowing what he said f Defenc. pag. 99 li. 8. This is the very point of our Defence affirme this and you affirme with vs all that we hold and professe When I am out of my wits I may chaunce to hold these conceits with you otherwise so long as God giueth me grace to be soberly minded and well aduised I will see other manner of warrant for all these weafes and straies then you yet shew before I affirme them or professe them g Defenc pag. 99. li. 9. Otherwise if you meane that Christ praied intentiuely to haue the whole and intire cup of eternall malediction and death passe from him which both the elect deserue and the reprobate sustaine that as it is pâ—…ssing strange doctrine so is it simply impossible For he could not intentiuely pray against that nor feare that which he perfitly knew concerned him not at all and by no meanes could euer possibly come nâ—…are him I premonished the Reader that I would there repeate the diuers iudgements of diuers men and so farre admitte them as they might accord with the Christian faith To this opinion of some men that Christ was in his agonie stroken with a feare of eternall death and so might pray against it I gaue two expositions how those words might be tolerated in Christian Religion without apparent impietie The one that h Sermo pag. 23. li. 21. Christ had no neede to pray for himselfe against that cuppe of eternall death but ONLIE FOR VS who then suffered with him in him The other that if we would conioine Christs person with ours feare must there be taken for a shunning and declining of that cup which he i Ibid. pag. 24. li. 10. religiously disliked For k Ibid. pag. 23. li. 29. touching himselfe albeit the innocencie of his cause the holinesse of his life the merite of his obedience the abundance of his spirite the loue of his father and vnity of his person did most sufficiently guard him from all danger and doubt of eternall death yet to shew the perfection of his humility he would not suffer his humane nature to require it on right but prostrate on the earth besought his father that cuppe might passe from him and was heard in that he shunned or auoided I repeate the selfe same words which then I vsed to lett the Reader see that I shift not hands nor change not mindes as there is no cause I should but that this Broker neglecting my manifest limitations to other mens opinions and euident speache as also suppressing my purpose would haue the world beleeue that I graunt Christ doubted and feared eternall death to come on his owne person Which in the maze that you put him in sir defensor might well be since you auouch hee knew not what he praied or els he sinned in praying against the resolute and knowen will of God but by my positions it is impossible that any distrustfull feare of hell or eternall death should fall on the soule of Christ for the reasons there shortly but sufficiently collected by me And this is your idle course throughout your Booke to catch at a word and neuer to regard what goeth before or after be it neuer so plaine and perspicuous to recall your misconstruing my speach Omitte then your wanton rouing or malitious swaruing from my meaning and saying and refute either of these limitations if you can And first least any man thinke I limite other mens words without iust cause I ment herein the words of the Catechisme which you would faine pull into your packe as also of some other writers whose sayings so long as they might be salued with any good construction I thought not fitte to repell as intolerable in Christs Church The Catechisme saieth l Nowels Catechisme Greeke and Latine pag. 281. Christum non communi modo morte in hominum conspectu mulctatum sed et aeternae mortis horrore perfusum fuisse horribiles formidines atque acerbissimos animi dolores pro nobis perpessum et perfunctum esse Peccatoribus enim quorum hic quasi personam Christ us sustinuit non praesentis modo sed futurae etiam aeternaeque mortis dolores atque cruciatus debentur Christ not onely died our common death in the sight of men but was also perfused The Translator of the Catechisme into Greeke allowed as well as the Latin saith 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 agonized with the horror of eternall death suffered and felt for vs horrible feares and most bitter sorowes of mind For to sinners whose person in some sort Christ here sustained were due the sorowes and torments not of this present death onely but also of future and eternall death Of the paines of the damned really inflicted in the garden on Christs soule by the immediate hand of God and of Christs extreame astonishment for the present Torments therof the writer of the Catechisme knew nothing these deuices of yours are later then the making of that Booke but he speaketh of Christes fearing the infinite wrath of God against
sorow necessarie in the sacrifice for sinne of his sanctitie with godly sorrow which was despised with our iniquitie the mitigating of his anger with humble and earnest praier which was prouoked with our contempts were they not three different effects euen in Christ himselfe and so might stirre vp three religious affections of feare sorrow and prayer Why then should they be confounded in Christ whose humane nature might yeeld all three to God as well in respect of pietie to God and of charitie to men as in regard of his office for the satisfaction of our sinnes for he might not approch the presence of God as a Priest with our person and cause who were sinnefull though he were innocent and holy to make intercession and sacrifice for our sinnes but he must giue God his due glorie haue compassion on our miserie and mediate for our safetie As therefore I see no cause to exclude these affections and actions from the satisfaction for sin so I see greater reason to include them in the sacrifice for sin except we make Christ a Priest onely by his SVFFERINGS leaue him neither any honor of OFFERING nor right of PRAYING for vs in the purgation of our sins which were a strange kind of Priesthood no way answerable to the Leuiticall in that wherin the apostle compareth them For in the Law the Priest was to present the sacrifice to God and to pray for the trespasser which if you thinke needlesse in the true sacrifice that should propitiate the sinnes of the world you must correct the Apostle that maketh the Law a figure of the Gospell though the person of the Priest and the price of the sacrifice farre excell all that was vnder the Law b Defenc. pag. 99. li. 20. Furthermore you knit in within this foure other seuer all causes of Christes agonie as you recken them pa. 27. First his taking of our infirmities in his flesh to cure them Secondly his breaking the knot betwixt bodily death and hell which none but hee was able to doe Thirdly Gods anger which might be executed on his bodie but was mitigated by him Fourthly the desire he had to continue the feeling and enioying of Gods presence with his bodie As there is no one thing in the Scriptures that receiueth and hath more diuers opinions of it than Christes agonie in the Garden so I proposed as many as had any coherence with trueth and left the Reader to make his choise which he liked best Howbeit I did not pag. 27. recken foure seuerall causes of Christes agonie as you mistake but of the c Serm. pag. 27. li. 23. feare which Christ had and shewed of his bodily death His agony had other parts and affections besides feare and astonishment as sorow zeale submissiue and intentiue prayer and a bloudie sweat the obiects and ends whereof might be as different as the things themselues For example Christes feare in the Garden might haue many respects and causes as well as his sorow He might feare the glory of God now sitting in iudgement to receiue recompense for the sinnes of his elect For as Christ himselfe who best knew it confirmeth it by saying d Iohn 12. Christes manhood might feare the glorie of Gods iudgement Now at hand is the iudgement of this world now shall the Prince of this world be cast on t so wee must not thinke so mightie and weightie matters as the iudgement of the world and the casting out of Satan the accuser of his brethren and the admitting the Redeemer to present himselfe here on earth for our cause to the face of God in iudgement were decreed and setled by God without some reuelation of his glorie and maiestie meet for those persons and purposes For this is a rule which may euery where be obserued in the Scriptures that when God is described as a Iudge he is sayd to sit in a Throne and all the host of heauen to stand before him to resemble the glory of his iudgement as we finde in Daniel 7. vers 9 10. Esa. 6. vers 1 2. 1. Kings 22. vers 19. Wherefore Dauid sayth e Psal. 9. v. 7. The Lord hath prepared his throne for iudgement This Michaiah and Esay the Prophets say they SAW which whether it were by sight as Steuen f Act. 7 v. 55. looked stedfastly into heauen and with his eyes saw the glory of God and Iesus standing at the right hand of God or in spirit as Ezechiel waking and g Ezech. 8. sitting in his house with the Elders of Iudah before him was by a diuine vision brought to Ierusalem to see all the abominations there committed I dare not determine Christ himselfe sayth I saw Satan fall downe from heauen like lightning Which way soeuer Gods glory in iudgement was reuealed vnto Christ and beheld of Christ in the Garden it was able for the time of his humilitie to impresse a religious feare and trembling into his humane nature since Christ came now by iudgement to haue the burden of our sinnes taken from vs and layed vpon him that he might make satisfaction for them Another thing that Christ might iustly and yet religiously feare in the Garden offering now to ransome man from the wrath of God was the POWER of Gods wrath Hâ—… might feare 〈◊〉 pâ—…wer of Goâ—…s wrath 〈◊〉 our sinne whiâ—…h hâ—… was to â—…eare which is fully infinite and so farre exceedeth the strength and reach of mans nature that our earthly infirmitie to which Christ submitted himselfe for our sakes can not comprehend the greatnesse thereof nor thinke on the power thereof without feare and trembling h Psal. 90. v. 11 Who knoweth saith Dauid to God the power of thy wrath for according to thy feare that is as thou art feared so is thine anger Contempt and carelessenesse kindle and increase the wrath of God against vs feare and submission asswage it And when I name feare I meane not a dreadfull distrust of Gods purpose towards vs which is desperation but a perswasion and confession of his power ouer vs whereby we feare to displease him and tremble before him withall submission when we haue displeased him This feare Christ teacheth his disciples when he saith I will shew you Luc. 12. whom you shall feare feare him which after he hath killed hath power to cast into hell yeâ—… I say feare him not meaning they should firmely beleeue God would euerlastingly condemne them but that thinking on his power preuailing here and in hell they should beware to prouoke him and with all humilitie prostrate themselues before him when they had offended him to preuent his anger Christ you will say needed not thus to feare since he was no sinner For himselfe he needed not because he was innocent and obedient in all thinges to the vttermost but since he was at this time now to beare the burthen of our sinnes in his body and to haue the chasticement of our peace laid
humour when the Scriptures and fathers precisely conclude the contrarie x Defenc. 〈◊〉 100. li. 27. Therefore I conclude he thus feared not his bodily death but it was the paines of the second death which he felt and so feared This conclusion may well be yours it rightly resembleth the Maker Christ feared somewhat and not his bodily dâ—…ath ergo he felt the second death which the Scripture sayth is the lake y Reâ—…el 21. that burneth with fire and brimstone So many gappes in one conclusion would no man make besides you For first how prooue you that feare was the cause of his bloudie sweat If it were naturall feare whiâ—…h quencheth the spirits cooleth the bloud could not procure a bloudie sweat If it were supernaturall and mysticall as Hilarie Austen Prosper Bede and Bernard obserue then can you conclude no cause thereof but must leaue it as a secret and wonderfull effect of Christes power and will knowen to God and vnknowen to man Secondly if we grant â—…eare might be the cause thereof the feare of Gods power infinitly able to punish the sinne of man on the person of Christ without the paines of the damned might iustly strike the Manhoode of Christ with any terrour that mans nature was capable of without the losse of grace and faith For feare doth not alwayes apprehend what danger is toward but onely that some danger aboue our reach or strength is imminent ouer vs. Thirdly if feare of what you will were the cause of this agonie it is no way consequent that that which Christ feared was really inflicted on him since feare is of future not of present euiâ—…l and the Apostle beareth witnesse in this case that Christ was heard or freed z Heb. 5. from that he feared Fourthly how many things Christ would or did obtaine of his Father for vs by his sufferings so many things might concurre as causes of this inflamed prayer whence 〈◊〉 by order of the Euangelists narration this bloudie sweate So that there being fourâ—… maine exceptions against your collection whereof you shall neuer auoid any one you soaring aloft and stooping to nothing but your owne dreames light iust on your hell paines not because the Scriptures make any such mention but because that best pleaseth your humour And this is the very closet of your cause and pride of your proofes touching hell paines suffered in the Soule of Christ Neword ne letter of Scripture to warrant it but as you wrested Pauls wish to foure notable vntruths so you sweep vp Christs sweate to make perfect your Pageant that from things obscure vnknowen and doubted with all men as touching the precise and particular cause thereof you may resolue what you list and tiâ—… your Conclusions with cart-ropes of vanitie and falsitie a Defenâ—… pag. 100. 〈◊〉 28. But you say pag. 26. you should put 25. the sorrow and feare of death which it pleased our Sauiour to feele in oâ—…r nature came not for want of strength but of purpose to quench and abolish those affections in vs. I say it came from both And I say you doe not onely rashly crosse Saint Austen in that Negatiue but you know not what you say For the question is not whether feare and sorrow be infirmities which is your wise conceite but whether Christ admitted them by his power and will or by constraint and necessitie which Saint Austen there calleth infirmitie and I named want of strength His words a man would thinke are so resolute that without better ground then you haue any a sober Diuine would not so proudlie confront them b August in Iohannem tract 60. Non est 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 dubitandum non â—…um 〈◊〉 infirmitate sed 〈◊〉 turbatum It is by no meanes to be doubted that Christ was troubled not for any weaknesse of minde but of his owne power What saith your wisedome to this Austen meaneth not onely by infirmitie but also by his owne will and power Coherent and different things may be thus coupled together because both may be true and diuerse respects may reconcile contraries but in one and the same sentence and sense to harle priuations and positions whereof the one excludeth the other as you doe is to make no construction but a contradiction in Saint Austens words As if a man should say this answere of yours is not onely foolish but also wise not onely vnlearned but also learned weâ—…e it not ridiculous And yet you knit Saint Austens words together in that sort where if the one be true the other is false For if Christ were troubled by infirmitie and necessitie then was he not by his power and will as Austen auoucheth he was Wherefore you hit Saint Austens meaning as rightly as if a man should post to London Bridge with his backe towards it or else you confute him your selfe as how because I say with Austen Christ admitteth these affections and infirmities of mans nature not for want of power to represâ—…e them but by volunâ—…arie obedience and humilitie that in him they might be meritorious Then how these affections preuailed on Christs Soule is the Question whether by necessitie Christ not being able to resist them or moderate them which is the weaknesse of mans nature or by his owne submission when he would as he would and to what ende he would c August in Iohannem tract 49. Thou art troubled saith Austen against thy will Christ was troubled because he would In illius potestate erat sic vel sic â—…ffici vel non affici It was in his power to be affected thus or thus or not to be affected Where there is soueraigne power there infirmitie is gouerned according to the direction of the will He must be ruler and commaunder of nature by his power that was not troubled with any affections or infirmities but according to the liking of his owne will So was it in Christ. d August ibidem tract 60. Non â—…rgo est aliquo cogente turbatus Affectum quippe humanum quando oportuisse iudicauit in seipso potestate commouit Christ was not troubled by the compulsion of any For when he thought it needfull he did stirre in himselfe by his owne power humane affections If to raise feare and sorrow within himselfe when he would were power aboue nature and no humane infirmitie as also to appoint how farre they should preuaile in him what was it then by the power of these affections in him to represse and temper all our infirmities and affections and to endue vs with heauenly grace and courage to resist and restraine the excesse of those affections in our weake natures was it power or infirmitie in Christ thus to worke either in himselfe or in vs It was power no doubt in Christ to limit the time degree and force of those affections which his will would admit and in all these things the lesse necessitie of nature vrged him the more acceptable was his obedience vnto God that would
nemo anxietatem euasit nemo egrediente anima sine amaritudine expirauit This griefe nâ—… man hath euer escaped nor any euer breathed out his soule without bitternesse And Martyrs no doubt doe or should priuately in their prayers to God see the sharpenesse of death in respect of their strength and confesse the iustnesse of this punishment layed on all men for sinne and so with all religious feare and most earnest prayer to God for his assistance and defence against the terrour of death approch their endes though the cause for which they die should comfort them and make them cheerefull in the eyes of all their aduersaries when they haue first giuen God his due and reposed themselues on his heauenly protection Euen so did Christ teach vs by his example who to his Father in the Garden confessed the naturall horror of death which he would feele and felt for our sakes and after to his persecutours shewed no such thing but readily met them willingly offered himselfe to them and patiently endured whatsoeuer paine they heaped on him c Cyprianus de Passione Domini Latens in humanitate omnipotentiate Discipulis pauidum coram per secutoribus terribilem exhibebat Omnipotencie couered in mans nature shoâ—…ed thee fearefull to thy Disciples and terrible to thy persecutours sayth Cyprian of Christ. When Christ was carried bound to the President hee was not suppliant to the Sergeants yea he despised he greatnesse of Herod and Pilate de impietate malitia suauitas pietasque Christi triumphat and the mildnesse and godlinesse of Christ triumphed ouer the malice and wickednesse of his persecuters d Defenc. pag. 102. li 26. You answere if death be not fearefull to the seruants of Christ they are the more bound to their Lord and Master who was the first that by death disarmed death and seuered death and hell What is this to our reason Enough and more than enough if your captious head would conceiue it right For Christ tooke from death all destroying power ouer the Elect and from them all amazed and confounding feare which others finde in death and so not only by his example taught them to resort to God with prayer for comfort against the terrour of death but by his agonie enabled them to goe securely and quietly to their deaths notwithstanding the horror thereof since he will helpe them in the midst of that miserie and receiue them with glorie when others thinke them swallowed vp with death e Defenc. pag. 103. li. 10. By breaking the knot betwixt death hell he could not be so wofully affected afflicted aboue measure as he was if he did not suffer by them somwhat extraordinarily Vnto Christ might feele somewhat extraordinary yet not the pains of hell this you haue nothing to answer Are the pains of hell the death of the damned come now to SOMEWHAT EXTRAORDINARIE Heere may the Reader see the verie depth of all your new doctrine It was SOMEWHAT that Christ SVFFERED or FEARED in the Garden ergo it was the second death and the pains of the damned All your idle and erroneous illations and amplifications of martyrs and malefactors end now in SOMEWHAT if you could tell what and because you knowe not what it was you will imagine what you list I doe not doubt but it was somewhat extraordinarie that mooued Christ to this feare sorow and intentiue Prayer after comfort receaued from heauen by an Angell although I dare not determine what it was which the Scriptures doe not expresse much lesse presume it to be the second death as you doe against the Scriptures or frame a new hell of the damned for Christes soule to pay our ransome thereby to crosse the whole course of the word of God teaching and assuring vs the bloud of Christ was the price of our Redemption I see many things extraordinarie or rather nothing wholy ordinarie in the son of God specially at the time of our redemption which he alone for the innocencie and excellency of his person and power could and did throughly performe Yea euen in his agonie though some thinges might be common to him with man yet none of those thinges could be sustained by any man as they were by him And therefore your somwhat betraieth your presumption when thence you inferre what you best like because the Scripture hath not acquainted you with euery secret affection or action that was required in mans saluation g Defenc. pag. 103. li 22. It was not therefore that only but some other death farre more dreadfull and intolerable which made Christ man being also God in such wise to tremble and quake I hope you doe not meane that Christes godhead trembled at your other death or was subiect to any humane feares or miseries nor that your other death was so dreadfull that his diuine power could not keepe him from trembling and quaking at it It was no small part of Christes obedience and humilitie to lay aside his strength when he suffered for our sinnes and not by power to resist repulse or ease the paines which his passion should bring but with exact sense to feele it and with woonderfull patience to indure it Neither was it no part of Christes purpose by his sorrow and feare in the Garden to giue vs to vnderstand that he would vse no power which he might easily haue done to diminish the vehemency or sense of the paines prepared for him least his so sauing himselfe from smart by his secret power should delude Gods Iustice impaire his loue to vs and put vs in despaire of following his example since we had no power to succour ourselues as we might imagine of him had he not by naturall and euident signes of true feare and sorow confirmed vnto vs that he felt his afflictions as much as we doe ours and will helpe our infirmitie and ease our miserie though he would not spare himselfe So that hence a good Christian would collect Christes submission to the weakest degree of mans infirmitie and his communion with vs in tasting the sharpest of our sorowes and not exaggerate his power to make him capable of the second death g Reuel 21. which is the lake burning with fire and brimstone as the Scriptures affirme and consequent not antecedent to the first death as you dreame in Christes case besides that the h Reuel 14. smoke of their torments which are cast into this lake ascendeth euermore and they haue no rest night nor day i Defenc. pag. 103. li. 25. Indeed Christ had farre greater cause as you say to feare euen his bodily death then any of his members haue For it was therefore because death approched vnto him clasped fast with hell so that he could not by the ordinance of God meddle with the one but he must feele the other My wordes enlarged and peruerted by you may seeme to make some musicke for you but of themselues they are true and no way touch
agonie With this childish Art you haue almost waded by them not denying as indeede you cannot that they were then before Christs eyes when he feared and sorrowed in the Garden but that either they were no new things to him or else parts of his righteousnesse and holinesse Both which Answeres are very idle For your hell paines if that were part of his Passion were no more newes to his foresight then the rest and all Christs sufferings euen of your hell paines if that conceite had any truth in it were parts of his obedience and patience as well as his suffering of feare and sorrow or of bodily death Wherefore these be but straines and starts to make your Reader beleeue you haue somewhat to say when indeed your oppositions are so sleight that they bewray how gladly you would and how hardly you can distresse any of these causes which I said might concurre in Christs Agonie They all were weightie and godly respects impressing no small degrees of feare sorrow care and zeale on the Soule of Christ and directly pertinent to the worke of our redemption now in hand And where you shift them of as parts of Christs habituall holinesse alwaies resting in him know you good Sir that I speake not in this case of the permanent gifts of grace alwaies inherent in Christs Soule but of the painfull impressions which those respects did therefore now presently and sensiblie make on the Soule of Christ more then at other times because they came now to execution which before were but in cogitation by religious and humble praier he was now to settle the whole course force effects of his sufferings c Defenc. pag. 105. li. 10. Call you this greater perfection in him than in other men to pray expressely against the knowne will of his Father yea against his owne That Christ praied against the knowen will of his Father is an irreligious and dangerous dreame of yours This Toy you trump in euery where as if it were some choise Answere and yet this emptie reason maketh as much against you as against me if there were any waight in it For if Christ did suffer the paines of the damned according to your deuice was it not his Fathers knowen will he should so doe yea and his owne also How then doe the paines of hell excuse him from praying against his Fathers knowen will he was so amazed therewith you will say that he knew not what he did Christ must then be wholy depriued of all vnderstanding if he neither remembred his Fathers will nor his owne nor our saluation for whose sake he was content to suffer And how then came he so suddainly in the very next syllable to remember himselfe and his Fathers will He was now freed you will say from that astonishment How fell he then thrice into it he had so many touches of hell paines which must needs confound all the powers and parts of his body Then all the time of his apprehension examination condemnation and crucifixion he felt no such thing since the Gospels beare witnesse that he wisely religiously constantly carefully and euery way admirably behaued himselfe in eche word and deede after to the instant of his death and remembred all things that were written of him Is not here a fine mockerie which is the fortresse of all your hidden mysteries that to prooue your hell paines you must bring Christ into three such fits and pangs of confusion and obliuion that he knew not what he said or did presently with the speaking of YET to restore him againe to his perfect sense and memorie and so to free him from all your new deuised Passions besides your selues no writer old nor new did euer find in Christs prayer that he knew not what he said and the condition added before his prayer d Luke 22. Father if thou wilt take away this Cup from me and the submission following with the same breath yet not my will but thine be done doe plainely prooue that Christ had exact remembrance and regard of his fathers will besides that the Apostle affirmeth of this prayer that Christ e Heb. 5. was heard in that he feared So that if this be all the Scripture you can produce for your hell paines I protest before God and his whole Church I will sooner beleeue that you were out of your wits in writing this then that Christ was forgetfull in praying that which he spake in the Garden f Defenc. pag. 105. li. 10. Againe could this thing in any reason be such an horrible griefe vnto him to haue his flesh lie dead for a day and a few howers would the thought of this make him sweat bloud for griefe and to neede an Angell from heauen to comfort him and to pray three times vehemently this cup might passe from him verily it is vnreasonable to thinkeso Who hath bewitched you thus openly and vsually to fasten on vntrueths I alleaged six causes that might 〈◊〉 in Christes agonie you haue piked out of my wordes foure more then euer I ment to be reasons of his bloudie sweate and are nine of these now puft away with a breath and nothing left by your swelling and insulting eloquence but the deadnesse of Christs body whiles the soule wanted this it is for a man to trust to his tongue when his teeth be gone and to bleate when he cannot bite If the cause were not Gods it might be thought a pastime thus to faine and face but in so serious questions to vse such idle and false imputations and friuolous refutations is a griefe to any good mans eares and a corrosiue to his conscience Of Christes agony and the causes that might occasion his feare his sorow and his zeale in the garden I haue said so much that I am wearie with repeating though you be neuer weary with resuming the selfe same childish and erroneous mistaking The reason of my speach is plaine and euident howsoeuer you take the course rather to misreport it then refute it For if the soules of Gods saincts doe by nature vnwillingly leaue their bodies to which they are vnited though by them they are often molested and burdened otherwise death were no punishment of sinne but a signe of Gods far our which is nothing so how farre iuster cause then was there Christ should naturally dislike death not only because it was a subuersion of nature created quickned by God and an effect of Gods displeasure against sinne imposed on all men but also for that it should during the time depriue him of life sense and action with great slaunder and infamie and cheefely should exclude for a season his bodie from that blessed communion and fruition of his diuine grace and glorie which formerly it felt though the personall vnion should not be disâ—…olued now the more Christ liked and loued that adherence to God which he liuing enioied the more grieuous was the want thereof which death tooke from him for
and bloudshed on the Crosse shewed in him no paines nor infirmitie but onely that voluntarily he made himselfe there the true Priest and performed the prefigured bloudie and deadlie sacrifice for the sinnes of the world As good reason altogether you haue to say so as to affirme it of his agonie No by your leaue for Christ did not actually offer two sacrifices the one ghostly suffering the paines of hell in the garden as you imagine the other bodily and bloudy yeelding himselfe to the death of the crosse m Heb. 〈◊〉 14 With one oblation he hath made perfect for euer them which are sanctified n vers 〈◊〉 and we are sanctified by the offering of the body of Iesus Christ once made This sacrifice was presented and submitted to Gods will in the garden but finished and consummated on the Crosse which could not be without paines and infirmitie belonging vnto death In the garden where no Scripture saith Christ died I admit not the second death nor the paines of the damned which are thereto consequent And where you say I refuse all paines and infirmitie in Christes agonie it is one of your wonted trueths which in another were an open lie I admit not the paines of the damned or of the second death til you shew where the scripture teacheth that Christ suffered two deaths the first on the Crosse and the second in the garden and that afore the first Otherwise painefull affections of feare and sorow which were humane infirmities though voluntarily and religiously receaued by Christ into his soule I euerie where acknowledge and with Cyprian make them entrances to his oblation for the sinnes of the world o 〈◊〉 de 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 vt fieret voluntas Patris sacrificium carnis a timore 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 suberant victime desolatoriâ—… carbones quos obedientiae liquefactus adeps extinxit 〈◊〉 tâ—…e will of the Father might be donne saith Cyprian and Christ begin the sacrifice of his flesh with feare and sorow consuming coales of feare and sorow in the gardeÌ„ were puâ—… vnder the sacrifice which the sweet fatnesse of his obedience mâ—…lting did quench So that Christ beganne the sacrifice of his body in the garden offering that to be disposed at his fathers will for the life of the world and his entring to it was with feare and sorow the painfulnesse whereof his obedience abolished and so without all feare went to the rest of his suffrings before and on the crosse where he perfected and ended his oblation despising all torments and punishments that the wicked could deuice for him * 〈◊〉 ibidem 〈◊〉 vt sanaret inâ—…irmos timuit vt faceret securos Christ sorowed to heale our weakenesse and feared to make vs secure I beheld 〈◊〉 workes o Lord saith he and admire thee fastened to the crosse betweene two condemned Theeues now to be neither fearefull nor sorrowfull but a conquerer of thy punishments p Defenc. pag. 105. li. 6. You meane voluntarie in such sense that Christmas not also vrged thereunto by any violence of paines and feare procuring it in him naturally I meane by voluntarie that Christ had power enough to resist and represse the vehemency and painefulnesse of these affections 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 his affections as â—…e saw cause in him selfe and therefore against or without his will they could not trouble him For 〈◊〉 did not preuaile or exceed in him as they do in vs against our wils but he must be willing to submit himselfe to each affection of feare sorow before they could take hold of him or be grieuous to him Our nature though he tooke in substance yet the corruption and distemper of our sinfull nature he did not take and therfore as before our fall the innocency and rectitude that was in man could guide and gouerne as well the rising as the inflaming of his affections so much more Christ who besides sincerity from sinne and libertie from corruption had the grace and power of Gods spirite aboue measure in his humane nature could so restraine and represse in himselfe all affections of feare and sorow that till he was willing and thought it fitte they neither did mooue nor molest his humane flesh or spirit And when he suffered mans nature in him to feele the same affections that are in vs they were holy and righteous in him declaring his obedience to his Fathers will and not disordered as we find in the corruption of our flesh And where you adde that Christ was vrged to his bloudie sweat by violence of paines or feare procuring it in him naturally you speake not only against the trueth but euen against your selfe For within one leafe after you grant q 〈◊〉 107. li. 16 it was aboue the course of nature led thereunto by Hilaries wordes that it was r Hâ—…lar de Trinitate li. 10. non secundum naturae consuetudinem not according to the accustomed course of nature And indeed how could it be naturall since feare cannot by nature cause a bloudy sweate and of all the men that you imagine did euer suffer the paines of hell you neuer read in the Scriptures or else where that any of them did sweate bloud Now if it were naturall to paine yea to your supposed paines of hell in this life to sweate bloud as many as you vrge suffered the same yea all the members of Christ to whom in these sufferings you make him like must needs at one â—…ime or other sweate bloud as well as Christ. Wherefore it is certaine that either you fitten and faine thâ—…se sufferings in other men or else Christ was not vrged NATVRALLY to this sweate by any â—…eares or paines of hell that oppressed him in the Garden s Defenc. pag. 10. li. 2. Of this Exposition with all the rest you pronounce that they are sound and well agreeing with Christian pietie Yet is it contrarie to your Resolution also yea it is contrarie to the Scripture expressing his feare and vehement sorrowes and discomfort to haue caused his Agonie Your words are of so small waight that a man would skant spare you Oyster-shels vpon your credit You know not the difference betwixt the occasion of Christs sorrow and sweate in the Garden and the exposition of his complaint on the crosse What I say of the one You more then negligently apply to the other As for my Resolution Pag. 290. prooue it contrarie to this position for exposition it is none since it concerneth the cause of Christs sweate and not the sense of his words and you shall after many failes and follies prooue somewhat Otherwise if these things in the Garden concerned Christs priesthood which is mine Assertion in this place I hope his Priesthood prooueth both his submission to God to whom he yeelded himselfe obedient and suppliant and his compassion on man for whose sake he refused not to make a bloudie and deadly offering of his owne bodie which is my Resolution in the Page
of these words professing to cite the text you say But still he was in his agonie And as for the words he prayed more earnestly which are The 〈◊〉 corrupteth S. â—…uke immediate before Christes sweating bloud you shutte them cleane out as not fitting your turne lest the Reader should thinke his vehement prayer after comfort receiued was the cause of this agonie for that the Euangelist placeth it next before in the text Your wordes then hee was in his agonie are no good translation and that which is added but still he was in his agonie is a violent corruption for genómenos there doeth not signifie his being or continuing that which he was before but his becomming that which he was not before For example z Gal. 4. v. 4. God sent his Sonne genómenon made of a woman and genómenon made vnder the law Doth the word genómenos heere signifie that Christ was man before he was conceiued of his mother or rather that he was made of his mother which before he was not and so made vnder the law doth not import that Christ was subiect to the law before he was man but that being altogether free from the law he would become subiect to the law which before he was not Likewise a Ioh. 1. v. 14. ho logos sarx egeneto the word was made flesh which before it was not This difference of the word 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 from 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 the Greeke Scholiast obserueth commenting vpon S. Pauls words I could wish to be separated from Christ for my brethren b Photius apud 〈◊〉 in 〈◊〉 9. Epist. aâ—… 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 Paul doth not say he could be content to become a curse which is NOVV PRESENTLY to be seuered from Christ but to be or haue beene a curse that is to haue yet continued seuered from Christ. So that 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 to be mâ—…de or to become is 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 from the present time and 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 to be is still to continue Wherefore genómâ—…nos enagonia is falling at that present vpon comfort receiued by the Angell into an agonie and not as you corruptly translate still he was in his agonie An agonie you will say you vse for all Christes affections and actions in the garden But so doth not S. Luke he referreth the word to Christes more ardent prayers and to his bloudie sweat If we speake abusiuely an agonie may be taken for feare as I haue formerly shewed or if defectiuely we name one part for the whole which How some vse the word Agonie some men vse to auoid length of speech and the number of particulars then Christs agonie may stand to note all his affections actions and supplications in the garden but if we speake properly as there is no cause nor proofe S. Luke should heere do otherwise then Christes agonie both by the proprietie of the Greeke word and by the circumstances of the text was that vehement contention of minde wherewith Christ prayed 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 more feruently than before being now strengthened or comforted by the Angels appearing and message and euen powred forth his spirit to God with so zealous affection that his sweat was like bloud This you would crosse by your corrupt translation in saying BVT STILL he was in his agonie though the words of the Euangelist doe not import that he continued still any former agonie but vpon the strength and comfort receiued by the Angell he fell into an agonie of most vehement desire to preuaile in the worke of our redemption and to remooue all impediments for which he vsed so strong cries and teares that his sweat was coloured like bloud All these things you venture to determine by your owne authoritie as if the Scriptures were vnder your command and little thinke that wise and godly Readers will censure your licentious intrusion on the Scriptures as it deserueth Neither can you cease for ought that I see for as you affirme that which our Sauiour assumed vpon the Angels message to haue possessed him before at his entrance into the garden so the words which he spake before any prayer in the garden and much more before the appearing of the Angel you make consequent to his bloudie sweat Your handsome and holie translation and exposition is c Defenc. pag. 107. li 3. but still hee was in his agonie and sweat like droppes of bloud trickling to the ground and presently sayth My soule is full of sorrowes to death Where you commit two notable falsifications euen of the Scripture it selfe The Dâ—…fender addeth to Saint Luke that which he neuer wrote and leaueth out that which he wrote For first these words My soule is full of sorrowes euen to death are not in S. Lukes Gospell whence you would seeme to cite them as presently sayd after Christes bloudie sweat Next you peruert both the other Euangelists in which these words are written for both Matthew and Marke which witnesse the speaking of those words precisely record that they were spoken to Christes three Disciples before he departed at first from them to pray in secret and before he began to expresse any desire that the cuppe might passe from him Reade the texts they keepe almost the same wordes When Christ had sayd to the rest of his Disciples d Mar. 14. v. 32 Sit you here till I haue prayed e 33. he tooke Peter and Iames and Iohn and he began to be afrayd and in great heauinesse f 34. and sayd vnto them My soule is very heauy vnto death tary here and watch g 35. So he went forward a little and fell downe on the ground and prayed that if it were possible that houre might passe from him You turne all vpside downward and tell vs out of S. Luke that still Christ was in his agonie and sweat like droppes of bloud and presently sayth My soule is full of sorrowes euen to death With such additions translations and corruptions against the circumstances described in the Scriptures some doubt may chance to creepe at a creuie into some mens consciences touching the cause of Christes agonie but your pains of the damned are not one iot the neerer for all your inuerting peruerting the Euangelists words to your will For what if Christ did sweat bloud at first which the Gospell referreth to the last doth that giue entrance to the second death and torments of the damned Are not the paines of this life able to make men sweat bloud but you must runne to hell for the lake that burneth there with fire and brimstone before mans body may colour his sweat with the shew of bloud Is it harder for Christ to resolue his bloud into sweat by zeale without paines or with bodilie paines whiles he was liuing than when he was dead to send out of his side first h Ioh. 13 v. 34. bloud and then water so distinctly and miraculously
the one after the other that S. Iohn confirmeth it with his owne i vers 35. sight lest so strange a thing should not be beleeued k Defenc. pag. 106. li. 35. Though it be against the common course of our nature for any paines or feare to sweate bloud yet the diuine power with and through paines and feares might wring out of his body that trickling bloudy sweate As it is plaine that it did by the wordes next before in the text an Angell came to giue him some comfort Your head was troubled about some waighty worke when one sentence wrang from you such contrarieties and falsities But the l Pag. 105. li. 38. Page before you tooke speciall exception against me if I did not thinke that Christ was vrged to his bloudy sweate for thereof you speake in that place by violence of paines or feare procuring it in him NATVRALLY here you say it is against the common course of our nature for any paines or feare to sweat bloud Could it be naturally procured in Christ and yet against the common course of our nature againe if it be against the common course of our nature for any paines or feare to sweate bloud by what reason or authority doe you conclude hell paines out of Christes bloudy sweate for if no paines or feare can by the course of our nature procure a bloudy sweate how know you that Christ did sweate bloud for paines or for feare for hell paines you will say he might Not by any course of our nature For then all his members which at one time or other feele the like which Christ felt should sweate bloud as Christ did But that I trust is sensiblely false The diuine power might wring it out of his body So it may raise Children to Abraham out of stones Doth that inferre that men are made of stones and might not the diuine power wring this sweate for that is your phrase out of Christes bodie as well without hell paines as with them is it hard for God to make a man sweat bloud without the paines of the damned It is plaine that it did by the words next before in the text Doth the text name hell paines or the feare of hell what will you not aduenture that thus presume to outface the Scriptures the text nameth many thinges before and you like your crafts-master will make your choise though the Scripture doe not expresse what was the cause thereof The words next before the text are an Angell came to giue him comfort Then comfort belike cast him into this bloudy sweate if the wordes next before declare the cause thereof which were very strange that a man by comfort should be cast into a bloudy sweate Why may not I rather say that the vision of an Angell put him rather into this sweate then the comfort which was brought him since Daniel was m Dan. 8. v. 27. stroken sicke and astonished with a vision as diuers others of Gods saints haue beene yet I thinke neither of these to be the cause of that sweate but as I say in my Sermons it might be voluntary either for signification as Austen Prosper Bede and Bernard do thinke or for sanctification and consecration of his person and sacrifice answeareable to the manner of the legall oblation prefiguring this as the trueth or for vehement contention of spirit in praier which indeed is the next thing mentioned before his sweate and shewed his desire and zeale to be more then humane for the Redeeming and reconciling of man to God by the shedding of his bloud n Defenc. pag. 106. li. 27. You conclude that Christes agony demonstrating Christs Priesthood must not rise from the terror of his owne death and yet a little before you openly confesse and graunt that his agony did rise from the feare of his death The effect of Christes Priest-hood performed in the garden must in no wise concerne himselfe For he was not a Priest to make intercession or to offer sacrifice for himselfe but for vs. And therefore his praiers then vttered in his agonie with strong cries and teares if they pertained to his Priesthood they were made for vs and not for himselfe and declared his voluntarie profering and presenting his body and bloud to Gods pleasure to be the sacrifice for mans Redemption and his feruent supplications to haue it accepted as the full Ransome for his elect that the accuser and supplanter of his Church might be remooued from Gods presence and wholy subiected vnder Christes feete Now if this desire and offer for vs must not only be voluntarie but inflamed with wonderfull vehemencie then would not Christ sweat bloud for any terror of his owne death but for his infinite feruency to preuaile and obtaine his petition for vs. You permix Christes feare and his feruent zeale together and call the whole action his agonie though it containe both feare conceaued at first when he approched Gods presence in iudgement for sinne and comfort receaued at last by message brought from Heauen and out of this confusion you collect what you list and say what you please to no purpose That Christ might haue a naturall feare of death I then said and yet see no cause to recall it but that I said Christ did sweate bloud for feare of his bodily death this is one of your painted faces with which you would outface the trueth Howbeit this persisting in your ignorant folly without remembring or regarding what is said on the other side argueth ridiculous negligence or malitious diligence of which because I haue already spoken I will say no more o Defenc. pag. 106. li. 33. Why should Hilarie deny that Christes bloudy sweat came of infirmity or Austen that Christes feare and perturbation was of infirmity Because they had learned iudgments and sober considerations in these matters which you want They beheld Christes power which no force of hell or Satan could impeach but where and when himselfe would permit They saw the innocencie and integrity of Christes humane nature which could not be tossed nor troubled with inward affections but when and how farre he was content to admit them They knew the infinite loue of God to his son for whose sake we were all beloued and adopted and that the father was so farre from tormenting the soule of his sonne with his immediate hand that p Iohn 17. he gaue him power ouer all flesh and q Iohn 13. gaue all things into his hands euen before his death and against the time of his agony in the garden Wherefore as the r Iohn 14. Prince of this world had nought in him and for that cause neither sinne nor corruption were found in him and s Iohn 10. no man tooke his soule from him but he laid it downe of himselfe so neither necessity nor infirmitie of our nature could oppresse or possesse him but he must first giue place to it by his will and guide it by
body be giuen for them and his bloud to be violently shed for remission of sinnes if this sweate did indeed purge all our sinnes but you speake in this as you doe in all other things without caring what you say so you bring somewhat to continue your cauilling This sweate the Apostle calleth m Heb. 5. teares and ioyneth them with Christs vehement prayers in the garden which he saith were heard Then Christs feruent desire to preuaile in the worke of our redemption against all the hinderances thereof might in all reason mooue him to pray with teares respecting our miserie and yet indignitie for whom he prayed and so be the cause of this bloudie sweate and your hell paines must giue place till you find some better proofe for them then your bare auouching that this sweate might rise from the very paines of the damned which is your single supposall with farre lesse warrant then any thing that Austen Prosper Bede or Bernard said And as for your binding all their significations and your imaginations in a bundell together when you first prooue that the Scriptures affirme any such thing as the second death or the paines of the damned to be suffered by Christ then we will talke what might rise from your hell paines in the meane time know you Sir wanderer that if the rest might be the causes of this bloudie and voluntarie sweate then you may put vp your pen and lay your vnquiet head to rest n Defenc. pag. 107. li 31. Hitherto we haue made it manifest that in truth you haue nothing in all these words against our Doctrine that paines and sorrowes were the true and proper cause of Christs dreadfull agonie nor to prooue that his meere bodily paines or death was the whole cause Now we are to shew the like in his most wofull complaint on the crosse where he saith My God my God why hast thou forsaken me And I haue made it more manifest that you haue lesse for your doctrine of the second death and the paines of the damned to be suffered in the Soule of Christ whiles he prayed in the Garden For what reasons be these Christ feared and sorowed in the Garden and he prayed so intentiuely that his sweate was like bloud ergo he suffered the second death and the paines of the damned except a man were disposed to run madde with reason He feared somewhat else besides a meere bodily death What then how many degrees and causes of feare and sorow haue I shewed that might conioyne in Christ now seeing in Gods presence and iudgement the waight of our redemption and the number of our sinnes together with the vengeance prouoked by them and the power of Gods anger displeased with them and yet no point nor part of the second death to be suffered by him if there might be any cause besides yours then yours can neuer be certainly concluded from the Scripture which is the thing I first affirmed to the Reader You aske me where I reade mine in the word of God and I aske you the like The Text saith Christ feared and sorrowed but the cause of Christs feare or sorrow is not there declared Then no cause being expresly mentioned neither mine nor your I leaâ—…e it to the censure of the Christian Reader which of vs two taketh the surest course I that 〈◊〉 no cause but concording with the maine grounds of the Scriptures and such as you confesse wanted not in Christ at that present and whereto the learned and Catholicke Fathers giue full consent and approbation or you that wade alone by your selfe in your owne conceits such as haue no foundation in the word of God and are repugnant to the Principles of Christian Religion confirmed by the Scriptures and confessed by the greatest pillars of Christs Church next after the Apostles And where you promise to shew the like in Christs complaint on the Crosse I easily beleeue you will performe the one as well as you did the other by your owne fansies without all regard of truth or proofe o Defenc. pag. 107. li. 37. You will aâ—…ke me here what kind of forsaking may this be Loose not your labour I will aske you no such thing What haue I to doe with your vntidie deuices wynoing words as men doe chaffe to and fro without any manner or offer of proofe The question I did and doe aske is not what you parle out of your owne platforme but how you can prooue by the word of God that forsaking in this complaint of Christs was either damnation or the second death which your Reader perceaueth now to be your purpose though you long dissembled it Your interlacing those words with qualified phrases serueth but to saue you from apparent heresie and blasphemie It maketh no manner of proofe that those words must so be vnderstoode or that the paines of the damned may thence by any colour be concluded p Ibid. li. 3â—… I plainly shewed you before if you had regarded it And I more plainly opposed those things against it which you neither did nor can answere and doe you thinke that neglecting what you list I must be forced laboriously to disprooue all your deuices before you shew what dependence they haue with the Sacred Scriptures or with the primatiue faith of Christes Church my grounds excluding your exposition and conclusion are to be seene in my Sermons pag. 32. 33. and are such as you shall neuer defeate The first is that dereliction and forsaking doe no where throughout the Scriptures import damnation or the second death which is your drift in this place but are alwaies applied to the iudgements of this life The second that in the wicked castawaies it argueth reprobation from grace and desperation of glory which if any man imagine of Christ it is rather furious blasphemie then erroneous follie Thirdly that in the godly the word vsed by Christ noteth either destitution of help or diminution of comfort in time of trouble but neither in Dauid who first spake them nor in Christ doe they with any shew conclude the true paines of the damned Fourthly that no construction must be made of this word that may decrease in Christ the fulnesse of truth and grace which neuer wanted in his Soule or draw him within the compasse of erroneous mistrusting or mistaking Gods fauour counsell towards him These grounds standing good which you shall neuer be able to remooue your warbling with those words to make them pliable to your will is but time and paines lost wind them which way you can by example of any Scripture you shall neuer wrest them to that height which you desire But because you are so far in loue with your owne fansies and my leasure now serueth me better then it did before let vs heare what kinde of forsaking you would faine fasten to Christes complaint on the Crosse. q Defenc. pag. 108. li. 1. Christ being now in the feeling of infinite paines inflicted
dereliction beseemeth the time place person and cause of Christ our ransome payer and purchaser of saluation with the price of his owne most direfull paines not any other farre fet or hardly applied and strangely deuised by the braines of men As iâ—… trueth all those other senses hereof are which you rather embrace Somewhat it was you mustered foure places of Scripture so wisely chosen and well becomming your cause before you would offer to determine the matter and now puft vp with pure pride and prickt on with singular disdaine you censure the whole Church of Christ and the chiefe lights and leaders thereof I still except the Apostles as peruerters of the Scriptures traducing their expositions as farre fet hardly applied and strangely deuised by the braines of men But if you so much despise their learning religion and iudgements who were Gods blessed instruments to maintaine his trueth against all heresies and his Church against all Schismaticks and thinke your braines to be more than the braines of a man take heed lest your Reader begin to suspect you haue the braines of some other kinde If Athanasius Hilarie Chrysostome Basil Cyrill Epiphanius Ierome Ambrose Augustine Origen Tertullian and Leo may not be thought in the verdict of any wise or sober man as likely to vnderstand the sense of Christes words on the crosse as your humorous and presumptuous shall I say braine which you so much abase in others or head without braine then I must confesse my fault who loue not to leane to mine owne wit in cases of faith but rather preferre the religious and laborious inquiries of others chiefly of learned and ancient Fathers where it concerneth matters of saluation and the grounds of Christian religion which they carefully receiued and faithfully deliuered to Gods people so many hundred yeeres before we were borne And what maâ—…uell you be so bolde with the braines of men as you terme it when you take vpon you to ouerrule the words of the Holy Ghost For where in the sacred Scriptures the bloud of Christ shed for vs is recorded to be the true price of our redemption you controlling as well the Apostles as the Fathers tell vs here that Christ o Pa. 108. li. 23. purchased our saluation with the price of his most direfull paines where by direfull paines you meane hell paines that your speech in this case may be as new as your faith Belike then in your conceit Peter Paul and Iohn though Christes Apostles were neuer well Catechised nor instructed in their faith since they affirme p 1. Pet. 1. we were redeemed by the precious bloud of Christ and q Ephes. 1. we haue redemption in Christ through his bloud and Christ r Reuel 5. by his bloud redeemed vs vnto God which lesson you like not and therefore you say our saluation was purchased with the price of Christes direfull paines that is of hell paines suffered in the soule of Christ which hath no bloud vnlesse you can as easily deuise new bloud for Christes soule as you haue done a new hell for Christs sufferings Till you so do giue me and other Christians leaue to thinke that the second death which you dreame of did neither beseeme the time place person nor cause of Christ our Redeemer and therefore his words on the crosse could haue no such reference as you haue riddled in this place s Defenc. pag. 108. li. 27. Your expositions are sixe in number the first is that when Christ on the crosse cried out My God my God why hast thou forsaken me by this word ME he should meane his Church for which you haue no reason in the world but the bare names of Austen Leo Athanasius The moe the senses may be of these words and euery of them agreeing with Christian pietie as I professed of them the lesse soundnesse is in your conclusion that would inferre vpon a strange and needlesse sense of these words your paines of the damned to be then suffered in the soule of Christ. And in denying your direfull exposition of Christes words I haue all the Fathers of Christes Church for 1400 yeeres of the same opinion with me And if your chiefe and capitall proofes were such newes to them what thinke you was the rest of your new faith They are sixe in number you say and they all can not stand together You are nimble in trifles and in substance no bodie Nor I nor any man liuing may take vpon vs to determine which shall be the meaning of Christes words when the words themselues admit and allow manie senses In this very case the persons and the parts forsaken the graces and degrees wherein and how farre that dereliction might extend receiue diuers opinions and though they be different they are not repugnant the one to the other And yet it is no newes in many places of holy Scripture by reason of the different or repugnant significations of the words circumstances of the sentence and degrees of extension and intension in many things to finde contrarie iudgements of men euen of the same words and things in holy writ Neither doe diuers expositions disgrace the word of God so long as they containe nothing repugnant to the text it selfe in that or any other place but shew rather the depth of Gods wisedome which incloseth many things in few words and often passeth the reach and search of mans wit But you that carpe at euery thing besides your owne conceits would faine make your Reader beleeue that siue fingers and one hand ten toes and two feet can not stand together For the matter it selfe as dereliction is confessed on all sides because it is mentioned in the words of Christ so it may be questioned of what persons to what part and in what things Christ conceined and intended that for saking of which he spake For as God is sayd in the Scriptures to be present with vs diuers wayes and to diuers effects namely when he lightneth strengtheneth and inwardly guideth vs with the grace of his spirit or outwardly blesseth our wayes and heareth and helpeth vs in time of trouble so when he withdraweth or with holdeth any of these things from vs whether it be his helpe his blessing or his grace he is sayd to depart and to forsake vs. Now if we take forsaking in Christes words for the losing or lacking of Gods What forsaking could not be found in Christ. fauour grace or spirit it was not possible that any such forsaking should at any time be found in Christ our head though the members of Christ do all well deserue to be depriued of all these things and were depriued of them till by Christ they were restored Since then this kinde of forsaking could neuer be verified of Christes person but only of his members and he suffered for vs t Ephes. 2. 16. to reconcile vs to God by his Crosse these words of Christ on the Crosse some learned Fathers haue expounded to
line or letter of holy Scripture q Defenc pag. 109. li. 7. Againe your owne rule is which I like well that no figure is to be admitted in Scriptures where there is no ill nor hurtfull sense following litterally But I haâ—…e shewed a little before a plaine easie and Christian sense hereof taking it litterally The rule is most needfull to preserue the right sense of the Scripture For if euery man may elude with figures that which liketh not his humour we shall haue little truth left in the word of God But euen by that rule your sense of Christs complaint is quite ouerthrowen because your exposition plainly fastneth desperation for the time to the Soule of Christ. For all hope hath ioy and comfort in it r Rom. 12. Reioycing in hope saith the Apostle If then Christ neuer forsaken of hope and comfort Christ for that season of his Passion were all comfortlesse as you pretend and had no sense nor feeling of any comfort or ioy he had no hope for hope bringeth ioy and comfort And what is no hope but despaire that therefore the litterall sense of these words neither is nor can be true taking dereliction for the inward forsaking of Gods grace and spirit as well the Scriptures as the Fathers whom I haue produced doe with one voice confirme Saint Austen may serue to shew the reason that led him and the rest so to thinke s August in Psal. 43. Ille caput nostrum vocem de cruce non dixit suam sed nostram non enim vnquam dereliquit eum Deus sed propter nos dixit hoc Deus Deus meus vt quid me dereliquisti Christ our head vttered not his owne words but ours For God neuer at any time forsooke him But for vs he said My God my God why hast thou forsaken me t Defenc. pag. 109. li. 19. Finally this first sense is contrarie to your second and third following also to your fift and sixt senses If either of these be taken as the true meaning of this place it cannot possibly stand with the rest I did not professe to discusse the likeliest sense of those words It sufficed me to let you see the weaknesse of your cause in deriuing your hell paines from Christs complaint on the crosse by this that twelue auncient and learned Fathers did diuersly sift and examine those words and yet none of them euer lighted on your second death or on the forsaking which you labour to establish in the soule of Christ. Now if the words doe tolerably beare so many interpretations what assurance had you thence to conclude your hellish confusion which you imagine in the Sauiour of the world yea graunt the expositions were contrarie which indeed are somewhat different according as the word of dereliction is applied and intended that maketh the more against you and hindereth not me For still I vrge the words which you stand on do necessarily inferre no such sense as you would fasten to them The thing that I presse is this that there are many other senses of these words approoued and preferred by the consent of the best writers old and new and yours of all others as it hath no consent of Christs Church ne was euer heard of before our age so hath it no foundation in the Sacred Scriptures You would disgrace the Fathers as iuuentors of strange and new senses but you little remember all this while that of all others yours is the latest absurdest and least likely sense of that complaint And yet if you wrest it to the lowest step of dereliction that this life knoweth or the Scripture here 〈◊〉 it may amount to desperation but neuer to reall and actuall damnation u Defenc. pag. 109. li. 23. Your second sense what is it euen this that Christs humane Nature was left helplesse to the rage of the Iewes which is a kind of forsaking This seemeth to come neerest indeede to your liking but as I said thiâ—… is directly contrarie to your first sense and to the rest following They that giue diuerse senses of any places in Scripture doe not meane they The second sense of Christes complaint on the crosse shall be wholy like or the same for then they were not diuerse but according to the varietie of significations and circumstances offered by the words they varie their expositions So here if we take dereliction for losse of grace then that sense of the word could not agree to Christ but to the reprobate without Christ or to the rest before they be engraffed into Christ and consequently me in Christs words must signifie my Members that were one body with him If we take it for lacke of helpe in time of trouble then it might well agree vnto the person of Christ who was forsaken that is left in his affliction and not deliuered from it till he died that we might euer after be restored and reconciled to the fauour of God Which commeth neerest to my liking I neuer acquainted you the places which you quote prooue no such thing they onely shew that this exposition hath sufficient foundation in other places of Scripture where the word forsaking is vsed to the like intent Howbeit there is no cause that I or you should mislike this exposition and the trifles which you obiect against it will confirme as much x Defenc. pag. 109. li. 29. There is surely no reason nor shew of Reason that Christ should here so mournfully and so â—…ncomfortably complaine that God had forsaken him if it were onely but for such distresses as the godly also doe equally suffer at the hands of euill men Had you but perused the places by which you conclude my liking of this Exposition you should haue seene Reason and reason enough for Christ to be thus affected in his extreame miseries as well as his Church is in the like or lesse Had the Church of God no reason to say in the Prophet Esay y Esa. 49. The Lord hath forsaken me or did God want reason in his answere when he said z Esa. 54. ver 7. for a while I forsooke thee for a moment in mine anger I hid my face from thee If then God had Reason to say to his Church a Ibid. ver 6. the Lord hath called thee a woman forsaken and afflicted in spirit could Christ want reason in his intolerable paines on the Crosse to complaine that he was now a long time left in them without helpe or ease as for the equall sufferings of the godly at the hands of men on which you would take aduantage I haue shewed the difference before When paines in others grow sharpest then sense decaieth and'death approcheth in the paines whereof men cannot expresse how much nature misliketh and abhorreth the paine In Christ it was otherwise his bodie being in exquisite paines on euery side and in euery part from Christs patience was at the highest proof before he complained on the
Creed how we were saued and what is the price of our Redemption specially the Scriptures going so cleare with them and they teaching so closely and soundly the trueth there expressed d Defenc. pag. 110. li. 9. These very sentences of the fathers I can easily admit if they import no more then that those outward afflictions on the Crosse were SOME CAVSES AND THAT NO SMAL of his complaint alwaies remembring that some greater cause also did concurre and was conioined with them Then by your owne confession haue the fathers spoken trueth and there was small or no cause giuen you to make so light regard of them As for your other greater cause when you prooue by Scripture as you intend that Christs soule on the crosse suffered the second death and the paines of the damned you shall haue a speciall reseruation that your fansies may be conioined with Christs praiers otherwise your reasons be like your resolutions they haue neither proofe nor strength besides your owne priuate and presumptuous perswasions e Defenc. pag. 110. li. 14. Your third sense if I conceiue it aright is that his being left to bodily death caused him thus to mourne which is but as the last before And yet you seeme to meane not only that but also because his flesh now should want all feeling of his heauenly comfort for that while that it should remaine dead A maruailous exquisite and farre fet cause The sense is neither mine nor so farre fet as you would make it I tooke it out of Tertullian Hilarie and The third sense of Christs complaint on the crosse Epiphanius whose wordes I produced to that purpose and howsoeuer you gibe at it after your scornefull maner I suppose it will prooue sounder then your hellish death which you haue so learnedly deuised out of their words The difference betwixt this and the former sense is not great For there the fathers ment Christ was forsaken that is not deliuered from the rage of his persecutors whiles he liued and these doe adde that he was left vnto death presuming death to be the greatest and most grieuous of all outward afflictions which in this life befall the nature of man f Defenc. pag. 110. li. 19. Yet me thinks as this crosseth your other expositions here so it is flat contrarie to the Scripture also If the expositions were contrary each to other so long as they be sundrie mens and repeated onely by me to shew how many senses haue beene deliuered in the Church of Christ by learned and auncient Fathers touching that complaint or praier of Christ which you would faine abuse to hatch your hell-paines what els note you by their contratiety but the diuersity of mens iudgements vpon these words all which conioined in this against you that Christes complaint on the crosse may diuersly be conceaued according to the different acceptions of forsaking and yet your paines of the damned haue no place in that variety or contrariety of â—…enses But this third sense you say is flat contrarie to the Scripture That were worth the hearing indeed if your foolish conceits were not farre more likely to crosse both themselues the Scriptures then iustly to controle the iudgements of so learned fathers But what is this great ouersight that is so much repugnant to the Scripture the Scripture g Ibid. li. 21. giueth after a sort to Christes dead flesh this LIVELY AFFECTION my flesh shall rest in hope The soule of Christ which was replenished with life trueth and grace as being personally vnited vnto God and of whose fullnesse we all haue receaued you affirme died on the Crosse and none other death then the second death and Christs flesh lying dead in the graue you imagine not only to haue life but to be a liuing spirit For you giue vnto it the liuely affection of hope which nothing hath that is not a liuing and reasonable soule or more You doe it you will say but after a sort That sort is absurd inough of figuratiue speaches in the Scriptures to make positiue doctrines For if you defend that the dead flesh of Christ in the graue had indeed any liuely affection of hope in part or in whole it is a brutish heresie denying that Christ was truely dead and that his body was truely flesh since a liuely hope impoâ—…teth not only life but vnderstanding and faith If you graunt these speaches to be figuratiue then doe you betray your folly to thwart the fathers assertions with figuratiue florishes as if they were proper and to pronounce their sayings flat contrary to the Scriptures because you can pike out a word that in outward shew soundeth somewhat strangely Hope in these wordes of Dauid is either applied to the soule of Christ in respect of the resurrection of his body which he beleeued and hoped for as most assured or if we apply it to the body it noteth safety from corruption and promise made by God of speedie resurrection which was the thing wherewith Christs bodie might be inuested But we shall haue mainer proofe for this matter h Defenc. pag. 110. li. 24. Is it likely is it possible that he should so dolefully mourne that either he should bodily dy or that his body should want the sense of his diuine presence so little a while when as in HIS MINDHE SPEAKETH SO TRIVMPHANTLY of his CONSTANT and CONTINVALLIOY IN GOD yea not excluding euen his body though dead from participating in some sort therein as we read in the former place at large I i Act 2. 26 27. BEHEID the Lord alwaies The Defender 〈◊〉 contradicteth his owne doctrine before me for he is at my right hand that I should not bâ—… shaken Therefore did mine heart reioice and my tongue was glad and moreouer my flesh shall rest in hope Now can a man in this EXCEEDING GENERALL and CONSTANTIOY so vncomfortably mourne in that sense as you vrge My God my God why forsakest thou my flesh it cannot be I would not thinke it likely nor possible if I did not see it before mine eies that such a pert Proctour should so proudly despise all auncient writers and fathers that fauour not his faction and yet so palpably confound himselfe and his whole cause with ouermuch prating For Christian Reader I pray thee take no more but his owne confession or assertion in this place by which he thought to ouerbeare all that stood in his way and obserue both how desperatly he contradicteth himselfe and how sensibly he subuerteth his whole doctrine and his deuice of this new found hell But the lease before he told vs peremptorily that k Pa. 108. li. 8. Christes Godhead as it were withdrawing and hiding it selfe from him for that season of his passion gaue him NO SENSE NOR FEELING OF COMFORT OR IOY in spirit soule or body Now suddainly whiles he eagerly hunteth after his hell paines he not onely falleth ouer head and eares into the myre of contradictions
but he clearely confesseth before hand that all which himselfe will say touching the second death of Christes soule on the crosse is apparantly false doctrine and euidently repugnant to the sacred Scriptures Thou wilt maruaile much at this and so doe I but that Liars are often so earnest to serue their turnes and not the trueth that they forget their former tales whiles they inuent newer As here for example He that would before allow to Christ on the crosse NO SENSE NOR FEELING OF COMFORT OR IOY in spirit soule or body Now vrgeth to promote another purpose Christs EXCEEDING GENERALL AND CONSTANT IOY euen at the same time when he spake these wordes My God my God why hast thou forsaken me and not content with this he addeth that Christ euen then IN HIS MIND SPAKE TRIVMPHANTLY OF HIS CONSTANT and CONTINVALL IOY in GOD and prooueth it by the words of the holy Ghost where Dauid being a Prophet spake concerning Christ on the Crosse that he l Acts 2. beheld the Lord alwaies before him at his right hand that he should not be shaken And therefore did Christs hart reioyce and his tongue was glad Vnderstand you sit faith-maker the difference or repugnance betweene NO SENSE NOR FEELING OF COMFORTOR IOY in spirit soule or body A most shamefull contradiction and EXCEEDING GENERALL CONSTANT and TRIVMPHANT IOY in GOD in the mind of Christ can you read this and not thinke you reele as your reasons doe to and fro can you salue this sore without sweating or make vp this breach without blushing and I pray you since the ground of these wordes is true in that it is the holy Ghosts and you may not flie from your owne inference which you presse so violently against the fathers to beate downe their exposition how could Christs Soule on the crosse IN THIS EXCEEDING GENERALL CONTINVALL CONSTANT and TRIVMPHANT IOY OF MIND suffer also the paines of the damned and the second death wherein IS NO SENSE NOR FEELING OF ANY COMFORT OR IOY IN body soule or spirit Can you hang these gymmoes together that the one shall not crie shamefull and intolerable falsehood against the other the best excuse that I can make for your to saue you from ebriety or frensie is that these things were posted ouer to you from diuers that saw not each others fansies and so without due perusing or remembring where they crossed ech other you patched their papers together with more hast then good speed How beit surely I take it to be a iust iudgement of God when you are diuided from the trueth to diuide either your tongues from your harts or your harts from themselues that all men may learne to take heed how they dally with the Christian faith or delude the Scriptures I thanke God I hate you not so much but for your owne sake I could wish you had beene silenter or circumspecter And see how euill you lucke or at least your cause is For heere haue you spoken enough to confute all that you formerly haue said and afterward will say and yet you haue brought nothing to infringe that which I said For a naturall seare and mislike of death as also griefe and sharpnesse of paine in the body may well stand with a continuall and constant comfort in God yea where grace is present and preuaileth the m 2 Cor. 4. perishing of the outward man bringeth the renewing of the inward man and bitter affliction maketh vs seeke after God and call vpon him the more earnestly for his assistance in which case it is most true that Gods n 2. Cor. 12. power is perfected in our infirmity For when I am weake saith the Apostle in body then I am strong in spirit And if Paul could o 2. Cor. 12. delight in reproches persecutions and anguishes for Christes sake and yet feele the smart of them could not Christ retaine comfort in his afflictions though his flesh were pressed with extreame paine Many thinges more may be strongly alleaged against this opinion With such strength as you haue already shewed whereneither words nor matter shall hang together p Defenc. pag. 110 li. 37. As first that seeing he perfectly knew that as his flesh should now quietly rest so his soule should enioy perfect glory and comfort more then before it did That doth not quench the detestation Was there no comfort in all this which mans nature hath of death euen by Gods ordinance though it comfort and courage the soule in hope of future blisse to indure the paine and horrour of death S. Austen saith q August epistola 120. Nemo vnquam carnem suam odio habuit et praeterea non vult anima vel ad tempus abeius etiam insirmitate descedere quamuis 〈◊〉 se sine infirmitate in aeternum recepturamesse confidat Tantam habet vim carnis animae dulce consortium No man euer hated his owne flesh and therefore the soule is not willing to depart euen from the weakenesse of the body for a time though she beleeue that she shall receiue her flesh againe for euer without infirmity Of so great 〈◊〉 is the sweet 〈◊〉 betwixt the soule and the body And so againe r 〈◊〉 tract in 〈◊〉 123. This affection of mans weakenesse whereby no man is willing to die is so naturall that age could not take it from blessed Peter to whom it was said by Christ when 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 old thou shalt be led whither thou wouldest not And to comfort us our 〈◊〉 himselfe assumed and shewed this affection in himselfe when he said Father if it be possible let this cup passe from me So that these respects made Christ the more comfortable in death but by no meanes did vtterly quench the naturall dislike that Christes manhood had and lawfully might haue of death knowing it to be the punishment of sinne and dissolution of our creation though by Gods goodnesse it be now made a passâ—…ge in his to a better life Your next reason is of the same stamp The resurrection of the body maketh no man willing to die if he could with Gods liking decline death but obedience ouerruleth the naturall instinct that God hath impressed in vs to abhorre death And where you take it for a mighty'pillar in your building that Christ s Pa. 111. li. 6. would not so extreamly mourne and complaine only for this cause as my fansie importeth you build but on sand which will haue the greater fall For I shew you many more causes and senses of those words then this only all which you kindly skippe and pretend this only which I neuer professed calling it my fansie that I cited out of auncient and reuerend writers t Defenc. pag. 111. li. 8 Further he knew perfectly that this was the very appointment of God for the obtaining of his most desired purchase of our health for the more aduancing of Gods glorie and for the aduancing of his very manhood Finally it was
de Trinitate li. 10. Derelinqui se ad mortem questus est sed TVNC confessorem suum secum in Regno Paradisi recepit Christ complained that he was forsaken or left vnto death but EVEN THEN he receiued the Thiefe that consessed him into the kingdome of Paradise iointly with himselfe Ambroses words are u Ambros in Luc. li. 10. de commendatione spiritus in 〈◊〉 Patris Clamauit homo diuinitatis sepâ—…ratione moriturus The man Christ cried not then dead in soule when he cried as you would haue it but ready to die or that after should die when he yeelded his spirit into his fathers hands The very next sentence before sheweth that this departing was of the diuinity from the body to leaue that vnto death x Ibidem Euidens manifestatio contestantis Dei secessionem diuinitatis corporis A manifest speach of God witnessing the departure of his diuinity from his bodie So that by no meanes Ambrose euer imagined that Christes soule died but as he expresseth himselfe in the same Chapter y Ibidem Caro moritur vt resurgat spiritus Patri commendatur vt pax fuerit in Caelo The flesh dieth that it might rise againe the spirit is commended to God the father that peace might be established in the heauens Thus shortly haue you taken the paines to produce three Fathers for the death of Christes soule and haue as shamefully peruerted and inuerted euery one of them which is no newes with you and yet all that you can conclude out of them may amount to a pestilent heresie if you will that the vnion of Christes person was dissolued for the time of his death but it can neuer inferre any thing pertinent to your purpose z Defenc. pag. 113. li. 4. Here the Fathers do sâ—…ew indeed that Christ died but more than a meere bodily death euen the death of the soule also Heere the Fathers are exquisitly belied and falsified otherwise that Christes soule died they offer neither word nor syllable sounding that way And though you can not speake trueth in so false a cause yet you should learne to speâ—…ke coherently You grant they auouch here that Christ died the death of the bodie and more euen the death of the soule also whereas it is euident by the words of the holy ghost as also by your owne positions that Christ neither did nor could die these two deaths at one time For by the manifest witnesse of the Euangelist Christ a Luc. 22. 〈◊〉 his spirit into his Fathers 〈◊〉 and so died Then most certeinly the soule of Christ was accepted and receiued into the hands of God which I trow is life and not death when the bodie was left to death Wherefore if their words concerne his bodily death they by no meanes admix the death of the soule since they all affirme aâ—… the Scripture doth that Christ committed his soule to his Fathers hands and so died of which death they say he spake in those words Why hast thou left me that is to die as they expound it Now if you affixe any death to the soule of Christ I hope you will free him from it before he commended his soule into his Fathers hands And so the one must be ended before the other could enter and consequently if they spake of the latter their words haue no intent to implie the other But what dispute we of their meaning when their words are so manifest that you can not hale them to your hell-paines but by shamefull corrupting of their sentences and wilfull misconstruing the bodie for the soule b Defenc. pag. 113. li. 6. What is the separation of the deitie from his soule els but the death of his soule Which of these Fathers doth auouch the separation of Christes deitie from his soule Is it so small a mote in your eye that Christes deitie was separated from his humane soule that you may loosely and lightly surmise it by disordering and altering other mens words At this speech of Ambrose you could not so grosly haue stumbled had you but read the Master of the Sentences who long since in one whole distinction of his third booke examined those words and answered as the trueth is that separation in that place was taken for want of protection and withholding Christes power whiles the bodie died c Sententiarum li. 3. dist 21. Separauit se 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 subtraxu protectionem Separauit se foris vt non esset ad defensionem sed non 〈◊〉 defuit ad vnionem Si non ibi cohibuisset potentiam sedexercuisset non 〈◊〉 Christus The deitie seuered it selfe because it withdrew protection It separated it selfe outwardly not to defend but if failed not inwardly to continue the vnion If it had not refrained but exercised power Christ could not haue died Theodoret calleth this dereliction d In Psal. 21. The permission of the deitie that the humanitie might suffer And Isychius sayth e 〈◊〉 in 〈◊〉 li. 5. ca. 16. Diuinit as abijsse dicitur cohibens propriam virtutem ex humanitate vt daret spacium Passioni Christs deitie is sayd to depart by withholding his owne power from his humanitie that he might giue time to his Passion Otherwise it is a certaine truth which â—…ulgentius teacheth f Ad 〈◊〉 lib. 3. Licet in Christi morte carnem morieâ—…tem fuisset anima desertura diuinit as tamen Christi nec ab anima nec à carne posset separari suscepta Though in Christes death the soule were to forsake the bodie dying yet the deitie of Christ could not be seuered from the soule nor from the bodie once assumed g Defenc. pag. 113. li. 7. Howbeit note I pray that neither the Fathers nor I do meane any separating of the vnion of both natures in Christ nor the separating of any holinesse or habituall grace of God from his soule nor the separating of Gods loue from him but the separation of all comfortable feeling and assistance of the Godhead This separation is meant and may be called the death of the soule If you separate none of these what then is it that you separate from the soule of Christ to proue it dead All comfortable feeling and assistance of the Godhead He knew himselfe to be personally God and man he saw his soule full of all truth and grace he was assured the loue of God towards him could neither faile nor change he knew that his obedience and sacrifice were acceptable to his Father and should be the redemption of the world and he was most certaine that the third day he should rise againe into immortall and celestiall glory hauing men diuels and angels euen all things in heauen and earth subiect to his manhood Were all these no comforts or was there no assistance of the Godhead in these Nay take but your owne words a little before that Christ on the crosse euen when he complained of his forsaking was in h Pag.
much deceaued when he said vnto him that stood there in presence Thou art the sonne of the liuing God and Christ himselfe was more then deceaued when he answered s Matth 16. Blessed art thou for flesh and bloud hath not reuealed it vnto thee but my Father which is in heauen Then speaketh not Athanasius of Christs diuine nature but of his person which was t Athanasius contra 〈◊〉 serm 4. ALWAIES in his father that is before he spake those words and after And euen when he spake those words the father declared saith Athanasius by the miracles presently following that he was THEN ALSO in his sonne incarnate as euer before Doth not this directly conclude that Athanasius intended God was in the speaker of those words euen when he spake them and that at no time the father forsooke the person incarnate no not when he spake those words since God to shew that he had not forsaken him who then spake vnto him made heauen and earth to witnesse how much he esteemed the person that so complained u Defenc pag. 113. li. 35. Touching Christs humanity Athanasius denieth not but God might for sake it for so the Scripture saith The question is not for the word but for the sense You finding the word of forsaking to be vsed in the Scripture put what sense you list to it and thence would prooue the death of Christs soule with as strange positions as the maine error it selfe For you grant Christs manhood was not forsaken neither of Gods FAâ—…OVR nor GRACE nor of continuall and constant ioy in God much lesse of What contrarieties the Defender is driuen to the fulnesse of Gods spirit which rested on him and yet you say he died the death of the soule for want of comsort As if there were no comfort neither in the grace nor in the fauour of God nor in the ioies of his spirit nor in the hope of his promises all which were most assured to him to the highest degree that any creature was capable of Did you meane that he had no ease of his paines nor end of reproches whiles he liued as also no deliuerance from the hands of his persecutors nor protection from death all these might be borne with since the Scriptures giue manifest testimony that these things he suffered till he died but these things that are true will not serue your turne you vrge his soule died because he had no heauenly life such as he tasted in his transfiguration where x Matth. 17. his face did shine as the 〈◊〉 and the clothes were as white as the light which prooueth his soule to be no more dead in his passion then it was all his life long besids and that will no man in his right wits auouch of Christ or of his Saints here in earth y Defenc pag. 114. li. 1. 4. Your fift exposition is Leos conceit without warrant farre fetcht hardly applied Origen is also here as weake Pricke on in your pride despising all the world besids your selfe and skorning euery mans opinion that hitteth not right with your fansie though The fift sense of Christes complaint on the crosse few men speake or write so absurdly and falsly as you doe Leos exposition vtterly subuerteth your hellish assertion and that maketh you fling it away with such disdaine as you doe Otherwise it hath more vicinity with the circumstances of the text then yours by many degrees For there is nothing in Leos interpretation which accordeth not with the Christian faith and hath his foundation in the very words of the sacred Scriptures in both which your hellish and harrish application faileth He saith z Leo de Pass Dom. serm 16. Vox ista doctrina est non querela those words were an instruction not a lamentation And his reason is past your refuting Cum in Christo Dei hominis vna sit persona nec potuerit ab eo relinqui à quo non poterat separari pro nobis trepidis infirmis interrogat cur caro pati metuens ex audita non fuerit Since in Christ there was but one person of God and man he could not be for saken of him from whom he could not be seuered he ASKETH for our sakes that are fearefull and weake why flesh fearing to suffer was not heard Which of these things can you refell with all the witte in your head the coniunction and communion of both natures in one person of Christ you were not best meddle with lest you sowe damnable heresies as thicke as you haue done notable absurdities He saith further Cur for quare and non exandities for relictus Aske the Boyes in Pauls schoole what difference betwixt cur and quare both signifying WHY and being both interrogatiues as Leo rightly obserueth concurring with that of Saint Austen who said as we haue heard before a August epist. 120. Causam commonuit requirendam cum addidit vt quid dereliquistime Christ warned them to search for the cause when he added WHY HAST THOV FORSAKEN ME His exposition of the word forsaking he taketh out of the very Psalme whence Christ cited the rest For so Dauid ioined them together My God my God why hast thou forsaken me and art so farrc from sauiâ—…g or deliuering me I crie by day and thou hearest not So that not to heare and not to deliuer is the forâ—…aking which Dauid ment in that place and which in all likelihood our Sauiour intended as Saint Austen thinketh if he spake of his owne person b August Ibid. Quare me dereliquisti tanquam diceret relinquendo me hoc est non me exaudiendo longè factus es à salute mea praesenti scilicet salute huius vitae Why hast thou forsaken me as if he should haue said leauing me that is not hearing me thou art farre from sauing me to wit from the present safety of this life So saith Leo. c De Passione serm 16. In ipso tantae victoriae exaltatus triumpho causam rationem qua sit relictus id est non exauditus inquirit Christ exalted in the triumph of so great a victory inquireth the cause reason why he is forsaken that is not heard The reason therof he giueth soberly learnedly and truely howsoeuer your humour like it not d Idem de Pass Dom. serm 17. That the Lord should be deliuered to his passion it was as well his Fathers will as â—…is owne vt 〈◊〉 non solum Pater relinqueret sed etiam ipse se quadam ratione desereret That not only the father might leaue him but that after a sort he should forsake himselfe not by any fearefull shrincking but by a voluntary cession For the power of Christ crucisied conteined it selfe from those wicked ones and to performe his secret disposition he would not vse any manifest power He that came by his passion to destroy death and the author of death how should he saue sinners if he would
haue resisted his pursuers And touching that kind of forsaking which you dreame of he saith e Ibidem Iudâ—…orum hoc fuerit vt Iesum crederent a Deo relictum in quem tanto scelere saeuire potuissent qui sacrilega illusione dicebant alios saluos fecit seipsum non potest saluum facere Let vs leaue this to the Iewes to thinke Christ forsaken of God on whom they could execute their rage with such wickednesse who sacriligiously deriding him saied he saued others he cannot saue himselfe He was then forsaken of his father when he was deliuered into the hands of the wicked that is he was not defended from them yea he would forsake himselfe that is he would vse no manifest power against them but willingly yeelded himselfe into their hands to suffer what they would This is the forsaking saith Leo which the Scripture alloweth That other sort of forsaking that God indeed had left him would not help him in his good time that is rather the perfidiousnesse of the Iewes which obiected so much vnto him then the faith of Christians Origen you say is here as weake and why because you say the word you take vpon you like a Iudge to set downe your vnwise censure on euery mans words you take not the paines to refute them by any colour or shew of reason Origen saith that f Origâ—…n 〈◊〉 Matth. 〈◊〉 35. Christ was forsaken of his Father when he tooke vnto him the forme of a seruant and came to the death of the crosse which amongest men seemed most shamefull Then maiest thou plainly vnderstand what he ment when he sayd why hast thou forsaken me comparing that glory which he had with his Father to this shame which he despised enduring the Crosse. Tell vs not what you will mislike but what you can refute in this saying And since you require the reasons of all other mens speaches and thinke your selfe priuiledged to speake without all reason what say you which was the greater abasing or forsaking for God to lay aside the power and glory of his maiesty and to take vnto him the shape of a seruant and therein to die the shamefull death of the crosse or for man to want comfort in his affliction which was the greater emptying or humbling himselfe in Christ If Origen in this point be weake the Apostle is as weake who nameth this as the greatest g Phil. 2. EXINANITION that Christ endured saying he being in the forme of God that is equall with God emptied himselfe and tooke on him the forme of a seruant and humbled himselfe and became obedient to the death euen the death of the Crosse. Origen goeth right with the Apostles words and saith this was the greatest dereliction or humiliation that Christ suffered and before you can with any reason controle this speach you must correct the Apostles text and in steed of the death of the Crosse put in the death of the damned which is a mystery the apostle neuer heard nor spake of Origen therefore concludeth h Origen vâ—… supra Vnde non estimes more humano Saluatorem ista 〈◊〉 propter 〈◊〉 quae comprehenderat eum in cruce Wherefore thinke not our Sauiour spake this after the mâ—…ner of men for the calamity which apprehended him on the crosse For so if 〈◊〉 take it thou shalt not seeke for things worthy his diuine voice i Defenc. pag. 114. li. 6. Also these senses be contrary to all the rest here obserued If they were what is that to the goodnesse of your cause Is it such newes that diuers men should make 〈◊〉 senses of some places in holy Scriptures If there be so abundant and different meanings of these wordes then your conclusion of hell-paines out of that complaint is more than crackt What warrant haue you but your owne will to make any such construction of Christes words And the word forsaking hauing so many degrees respects and diuersities as wee see by these learned Fathers you must proclaime your selfe more than a Patriarke euen a Pope that must haue and will haue the sense of holy Scripture shut vp in the closet of your owne brest before your inference of hell-paines suffered in the soule of Christ will be consequent to these words k Defenc pag. 114. li. 7. Your sixth and last sense is likewise contrary to the rest and as improbable in it selfe or more than the former That Christ should here cite the beginning of that Psalme onely to shew the Iewes that their wrongs towards him were prophesied of before This alreadie I The sixt sense of Christs complaint on the crosse fully answered which you refute not What should I refute a brainsicke Presumer of his owne ignorant conceit and a proud despiser of all other mens words and reasons This you say you haue alreadie fullie answered in your Treatise If you had sayd foolely I might the sooner haue beleeued you for what is there in that answere but extreame pride and follie All your answere is l Trea. pa. 66. li 31. Which sense is most absurd What patch can not presently giue this answere to any thing But more fully you say m Ibid pag. 67. li. 7. This is too fond to be spoken Such liquor doth rellish well your lippes All mens sayings are fond to a foole saue his owne which are most foolish of all I brought you the iudgements of Ierom and Chrysostom and all the answere you vouchsafed vnto them is that which I now repeat which whether it sauour of any sobrietie I relinquish to the Reader But you adde a reason thereof in your Treatise Such as would make a man sicke to heare an idle companion prate so boldly and loosely Your reason forsooth is for so you will haue it called n Ibid. pag. 66. li. 32. As if when they had mocked and reuiled him at noone or before he would then three whole houres after tell them of such an answere in the Prophet As if you stood by and kept the Register when they left mocking and deriding Christ on the crosse That he was crucified about mid-noone and spake these words about the ninth houre which was three of the clocke after noone the Scripture doth witnesse but how long they continued their scorning and scoffing at him no Scripture doth limit Saint Matthew nameth the high o Matth. 27. vers 41. Priests with the Scribes Elders and Pharises the p 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 that were crucified with him and such as q 〈◊〉 passed by reuiled him wagging their â—…eads and r 〈◊〉 saying Thou that destroyest the Temple and buildest it in three dayes saue thy selfe If thou be the Sonne of God come downe from the crosse S. Luke addeth That s Luc. 22. v. 35. the people which stood and beheld mocked him as well as the Rulers and the souldiers also mocked him and came and offered him vineger How long this continued from all sorts standing and passing by
When they are diuers the Reader may make his choise what he best liketh but there is no cause nor reason to reiect all that can not be reconciled Neither did I tell you they might all stand together but I sayd they stood well with the rules of Christian pietie And since they had in them no contradiction to the text nor to the faith I saw no ground to depriue the Reader of them much lesse to reiect or disdaine the authours of them as you do And yet truly it were no such hard matter as you imagine to make the substance of them stand together For why might not Christ on the crosse as the head and Sauiour of his bodie in his owne name make his complaint or inquire the cause why both he and his were so long and in this wise forsaken as namely the head to be left to the paine shame and death of the crosse and his members to the poison of sinne and rage of Satan and therefore pray that his members might be freed and restored to Gods fauour and himselfe be eased of his anguish with deposing his spirit into his Fathers hands and honoured with the signes of his Fathers loue and liking towards him when he should depart this life that all his enemies might know there was a great and good cause euen the glory of God and mans saluation why he was thus martyred and mocked on the crosse Here are the effects of those sixe or seuen causes layd together what so great repugnancie finde you betwixtthem that because they are manie therefore your hell-paines should be the likelier to be the true meaning of these words a Defenc. pag. 114. li. 27. A very badde opinion of the holy Scriptures you seeme to haue if you thinke they may be handled by Interpretations and Expositions thus that a man may take them in sixe or seuen diuers senses and all sustisiable I honour them more in not reiecting the manifolde expositions of considerate and godly Interpreters than you do in fastening them to the leauen of your sower humour and affixing such senses to them as shall contradict the maine grounds of faith and religion deliuered in them And who but you did euer hinder Expositors olde or new to labour in them and scant to reach to the depth of them since as you seeme to be affected no man may offer diuersly to interpret them for feare of hauing a badde opinion of them But such is your stiffe and proud presumption all things that like not you are vaine and friuolous and your fansies be they neuer so vnreasonable or irreligious must be weighty and holy b Defenc. pag. 114. li. 34. Now it resteth that I gather some reasons from the expresse Scripture to shew you that indeed very paines and the vehemencte of sorrowes namely which he now susteined by way of yeelding satisfaction and sacrifice for sinne were the principall and only proper cause of his most dreadfull agonies and complaint Which trucly though it need no reason for proofe of it the matter being so cleere in it selfe yet your vnreasonablenesse is such that it draweth somewhat from me about it Your Art of carping hath fayed but ill-fauouredly with you you will now proceed to your trade of prouing and that by expresse Scripture wherein you shew your selfe to be right your selfe that is take all your owne fansies for expresse Scripture and though your conceits be such that are more worthy to be derided than answered yet the matter you say is so cleere in it selfe that it needeth no reason for proofe of it The expresse Scriptures on which you so much stand are the name of the Agonie the Houre and the Cuppe with this one sentence My soule is on euery side heauy vnto death About these you brabble going neither backeward nor forward but heaping vp a few generall phrases of mightie sorowes and excessiue paines you iterate the very same that you often sayd before and adde not so much as a piece of a reason that should stumble a man of any vnderstanding And touching your hell paines or the second death you lay that on soaking till your proouing be ouerpast and then we shall heare of it at Lands end when you are lightned of your burden c Defenc. pag. 115. li 3. First no Christian doubteth I suppose much lesse denieth that Christs most wofull agonies and complaining belonged properly and directly to his Passion and sacrifice and that they expressed a part thereof yea as I thinke not the least part but his whole sacrifice consisted in afflictions The prince of our saluation was consecrated through afflictions Therefore afflictions sorrowes and paines were the cause of his agonies and complaint not his religious The Defenders maner of reasoning is as illogical as his matter is false feare not his piette or pitie Somewhat it was this gecre was Drawen from you it commeth not so vnwillingly but it commeth as vntowardly from you First to the forme and then to the matter of your argument Your conclusion is a strange kind of creature it hath to much and yet it hath too little For before you can exclude religious feare pittie and pietie from the cause of Christs agonie or complaint you must adde onely to your inference and say Afflictions sorrowes and paines were the onely cause of Christs agonies and complaint Otherwise with one part you exclude another as if a man would say that your head is not part of your bodie because your heele is which would put all your reasons in daunger to be drawen out of your heele and not out of your head And yet as defectiue as your conclusion is one way it is as excessiue another way For these words were the cause are stollen into this conclusion of which there was no mention in your premisses and so your precedent propositions are of one countrey and your conclusion of another they haue not so much as entercourse eche with other where by the rules of reason and Art there should be nothing in your conclusion which is not exactly specified in your premisses Your maior beginneth with belonged to your minor proceedeth to consisted in and your conclusion huddleth was the cause of which are rather like forkes to skatrer then rakes to gather the parts of your syllogisme together If to hale in your conclusion you will amend your assumption as you must and say that afflictions were the onely cause of Christs sacrifice we shall more wonder at this monster then at the former For besides the falsenesse of it in that it is vtterly repugnant to all truth since the causes of Christs sacrifice were sinne in vs needing it Loue in Christ proferring it and Iustice in God requiring it how come the parts of any thing to be the causes thereof Afflictions suffered were parts of Christs sacrifice and not the causes And therefore you must pray the Printer to stampe you a new conclusion before any part of this argument will haue
houre and this cup might passe from him That which this houre and this cup doe signifie the same is the proper and principall cause of this agonie but what can be ment by this houre vnlesse the paines of his suffering set and appointed by God for him to be are at his determined time from Gods iustice for sinne What is this cup but the bitter taste of the same paines aforsaid this I hope was not his holinesse and sanctification which so troubled and molested him nor his piety nor his pity If you permit our Sauiour to be the interpreter of his owne wordes as he was the speaker then neither this hower nor this cup import any thing suffered in the garden After his agony past and praiers ended in the garden Christ said to his Disciples b Sleepe henceforth and take your rest behold THE HOWER draweth neere and the Sonne of man is giuen into the hands of sinners And so to the Iewes that came to approhend him c 〈◊〉 this is your very hower and the power of darknesse And when Peter would with force haue defended him he said d 〈◊〉 Put vp thy sword into thy sheath shall I not drinke of the cup which my Father hath giuen mee So that this â—…ower and this cup were to come when his agony was ended and were they not why may not this howre and this cup conteine in them as well his painfull affections oâ—… sorow and feare as his other sufferings Was not the Cuppe mixed that he dranke and the houre long enough to comprise all that he suffered But what maketh either of those for your hell paines Was there no Cuppe for him to drinke nor time for him to suffer except your hellish torments were interposed His sufferings then are confessed though no feare nor sorow might besiege him but such as was ioyned with obedience and patience and in the midst of his afflictions he neither neglected submission to God nor compassion to men You with the one would exclude the other and I see no words nor cause but both might be ioyned in one houre and one Cup whatsoeuer you pretend to the contrary e Defenc. pag. 110. li. 23. Nay finally he himselfe expresseth the true cause euen his excessiue paines his ouerabounding sorowes and anguish saying My soule is full of paines or full of sorowes euen vnto death Heere he nameth the cause You are a man of much intelligence that out of Christs words would conclude his sorow to be the cause of it selfe For where by Christs agonie if it be largely taken you must meane his feare and his sorow confessed in that speach My soule is heauy or sorowfull vnto death You make no more adoe but auouch that Christ here nameth sorow to be the cause of his agony that is of his sorow For if by his agony you meane his bloudy sweat from these words to that part of his action in the garden you shall neuer make any consequent The Euangelist expressely saith There appeared an Angel from heauen comforting him and then falling into an agonie he praied more earnestly and in that vehement praier his sweat was like drops of bloud He was comforted before this last praier and therein rather with the intention of spirits for zeale then with the remission of them for feare he did sweat as the Scripture noteth Now whereof receaued he comfort but of his sorow and what is comfort but a depulsion or mitigation of sorow what sense then can it haue to say that after Christs sorow was eased and comforted from heauen his sorow decreasing his agony of sorow so much encreased that he sweat bloud for very sorow how hang these contraries together which you would hale out of Christs owne words In the former part of his action in the garden wherein he praied the cup might passe from him he said his soule was heauy or sorowfull vnto death We enquire the cause of this sorow You answere that Christs owne words expresse and name sorow to be the cause therof What is this but to collude with Christs words in making his sorow to be the cause of his sorow which in a more generall and confused word you call his agonie but with vs the cause of his sorow is in question to that you neither can nor doe say any thing out of Christes words out of your owne conceit you presume that Christs f Pa. 116. li. 31. excessiue paines then felt and the intire want of feeling of Gods comfort and nothing els was the proper and principall cause of that sorow But these be your additions and expositions they be no part of Christs words nor meaning And by what authority to aduantage your error doe you not only contrâ—…le the translation vsed by all the Latin Fathers Tertullian Cyprian Hilarius â—…erom Ambrose Austen Fulgentius Bede and others but euen corrupt the words of our Sauiour rendered by the Euangelists Matthew and Marke Tristis est enima mea vsque ad mortem My soule is heauie sadde or sorowfull vnto death say all the Latine Fathers saue Tertullian who sayth g Tertullian de carne Christi Anxia est anima mea vsque ad mortem My soule is 〈◊〉 vnto death The Euangelists words are 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 My soule is heauie or on euery side heauy and sorowfull vnto death You translate it h Pa. 116. li. 25. My soule is full of paines meaning by paines present inherent and absolute paines such as your hell-paines are where the words import no such thing for neither tristitia in Latine nor 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 in Greeke either in prophane or diuine Writers note any such actuall and absolute impression of paine as you would haue but an affection troubling the minde and rising vpon opinion of euill past or instant Of sorow Saint Austen sayth right well i Auâ—…ust in Psal 42. Dolor animae tristitia dicitur molestia quae fit in corpore Dolor dici potest tristitia non potest The griefe of the soule is called heauinesse or sorow the griefe of the bodie is called paine not sorrow 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 in Greeke with prophane Writers is 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 which Cicero translateth k Tuscul. quaest libro 4. Opinio recens mali praesentis A fresh opinion of present or instaâ—…t euill The Scriptures in like sort vse the same word opposing it to the affection of ioy and expressing by it not any actuall or absolute paine but griefe and sadnesse of minde which wee call sorow l Ioh. â—…6 v. 20. The world shall reioyce and you shall be sorrowfull 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 but your SOROVV shall be turned to ioy So Paul m 2. Cor. 2. I would not come againe to you 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 in heauinesse for if I made you sorâ—… who is he that should make me glâ—…d but the same that was made SORY by me And this very thing I wrote vnto you lest
when I came I should haue SOROVV of them of whom I should haue ioy When the rest of the seruants saw what the euill seruant that was pardoned of his master the great debt of 10000 talents did to his fellow that ought him an hundred pence n Matth 18. vers â—…1 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 they were very sory And when Christ sayd to his Disciples One of you shall betray me o Matth. 26. vers 22. 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 they were exceeding sorowfull and bâ—…ganne euery onâ—… to say Master is it I As also when â—…e tolde them of his departure and their troubles he added p â—…ohn 16. Because I haue spoken these things vnto you 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 sorow hath filled your hearts And generally thorowout the New Testament 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 doeth no where signifiâ—… actuall and absolute paâ—…ne but griefe and sorow of minde And therefore your wresting of our Sauiours words with a false translation in saying My soule is full of paines intending thereby the paines of the damned inflicted by Gods immediaâ—…e hand is a false and lewd corruption q Defenc pag. 116. li. 34. Here we will remember againe what is taught by authoritie in England The rather for that you take on as a man impatient because I doe affirme that our doctrine not yours hath the publiâ—…e authoritie for it You call it an egregiouâ—… lie an insolent and impudent speach well becomming â—…n alchouse c. and yet in the very next page in plaine termes you graunt the same to be taught in our hâ—…milie of Christs Passion The way to mend a lie is not to double it and â—…riple it but to see your error that you may acknowledge the trueth Iâ—… I had then cauâ—…e to dislike the egregious lie which I iustly challenged I haue now more whâ—…n to saue your â—…elfe from some impudencie you â—…hew more then stupidity You would needes in your treatise amongst other vntrueths auouch that your doctrine 〈◊〉 the r Treatis pa. 89 li. 13. publike authorised doctrine of England deliuered in the booke of homilies I told you then which yet is true that this as well as others was an insolent and impudent speach You aske s Defenc. 〈◊〉 â—…7 〈◊〉 30. who is that egregious lier now t Defenc. 〈◊〉 â—…7 〈◊〉 35. you hope you are cleare from it Euen he that was before and you are cleare from it as Iudas was from betraying Christ by â—…aying is it I master to cleare your selfe you now say your exposition of those words My God my God why host thou forsaken me is found in the booke of Homilies and that I my selfe in plaine wordes confesse so much Then are you the verier lyer to say this is your doctrine which I impugned or that our maine question was about the exposition of those words Christs complaint on the crosse I sayd did not prooâ—…e your hell-paines nor the second death to be suffered in Christs soule which way soeuer you expounded it so you followed any example of Scripture vsing that word To reprobation or desperation if your conscience did thereto stretch you might applie this word by some examples of Scriptures but not to reall and actuall damnation no not in the most wicked castawayes that â—…uer were The sundry senses which I gaue out oâ—… the Fathers shew the wâ—…aknesse of your illation from those words they directly touch not the maine point of doctrine questioned betwixt vs and amongst theâ—…e senses this was one which the booke of Homilies seemeth to follow The direct cause of Christs feare sorrow and bloodie sweate since the Scripture concealed it I sayd could not be certainly concluded thence what is that to Christes complaint on the crosse whose words though they may be extended to expresse his paines yâ—…t your doctrine is no whit the truer for all that nor the more confirmed by the lawes of this Realme So that the lie by your leaue doth lye where it did only you haue furnished the former lie with two or three fresher and as your vse is you correct matters amisse by making them worse then they were u Defenc. pag. 117. li. 6. Here I am sure you thinke not that our Homilie maketh Christes pietie or pitie nor yet his meere bodily paine to force him thus farre Nor in these words next following there O that mankind sâ—…ould put the euerlasting sonne of God in such paines for the grieuousnesse of our sinnes Are you sure what I thinke well fare your wisedome yet that when you should prooue your doctrine to be receaued and authorized by the publike lawes of this Realme you are sure I am of your mind This is not onely a childish fainting but foolish dallying to cleere your selfe from a notorious lie by assuring your selâ—…e what I thinke If you will needes know what I thinke first it is euident to him that readeth these homiliâ—…s that the whole summâ—… and meane of our redemption being theâ—…e purposely deliuered neither of these homilies speaketh one word of your hell-paines nor of the second death to be suffered in the soule of Christ. Againe it is as euident that the suffering of a shamefull and painfull death in Christs body is there taught to be the only sacrifice for our sinnes The wordes are x 1. Sermon of the Passion pa. 5. There is none other thing that can be named vnder heauen to saue our soules but this only worke of Christs pretious offering of his body on the Altar of the Crosse. What paines Christ suffered on the Crosse whether the paines of the damned or of his body bruised and broken on the Crosse the booke it selfe doth plainly witnesse c Christ being the sonne of God and y 2. Serâ—…on of the Passion pa. 9. perfect God himsâ—…lfe who neuer committed sinne was compelled to come downe from heauen and to giue his BODY TO BE BRVISED AND BROKEN ON THE CROSSE for our sinnes Was not this a manifest token of Gods great wrath and displeasure towards sin that he could be pacisied by none other meanes but ONLIE BY THE SWEET AND PRETIOVS BLOVD of his deare sonne If you teach this that the bruising and breaking of Christs body on the Crosse and the shedding of his pretious bloud was the ONLIE MEANE to pacifie Gods wrath against sinne then I did you wrong to call your speach impudent but if this be the new doctrine which I defend and you impugne then doe you deserue not only the termes which I gaue but worse so openly and obstinately to resist deface and belie publicke authority z Defenc. pag. 117. li. 12. Adde herâ—…unto the full and large declaration hereof in the authorised Catechisme Christ suffâ—…red not only a common death in the sight of men but also was throughly touched with the horror of eternall death c. When he did take vpon him and beare both the guiltines and iust paine of mankind damned and lost he was afflicted with
so grieuous feare trouble and sorow of mind or soule that he cried out My God my God why hast thou forsaken me I make good difference betwixt the Booke of Homilies confirmed as well by the publicke authority of Prince and Parliament Anno Reginae 13. ca 12 as by the generall subscription of the vpper and neather house in the conuocation Anno 1571 to a In the 35. article of Homilies containe godlie wholesome and necessarie doctrine and the Catechisme then licenced to be taught in Schooles to yong scholers but without any such autoritie as the former is Shew the like approbation and you shall freely call it the publike autorized doctrine of England till you doe so giue me leaue to tell you that the one is indeede by publicke authority receaued and ratified euen as the articles are the other was by priuate discretion permitted and tolerated to be taught in Grammar schooles but publicke authority of the whole Realme you may chalenge none vnto it And therefore I take my selfe in matters of faith not bound vnto it farder then it accordeth with the manifest trueth deliuered in the â—…acred Scriptures Againe your selfe doâ—… more impugne the Catechisme then I doe For if your owne wordes be true that Christ when he vttered those b Defenc. pag. 110. li. 28. 34. words spake in his mind of his constant and continuall ioy in God and was in exceeding generall and constant ioy What place leaue you for any of those wordes which you cite out of the Catechisme to haue any trueth in them since they speake of exceeding and horrible feares and sorrows which I thinke are contrarie to your triumphant generall and constant ioy And although I thinke it no reason that a thing priuatly permitted should abrogate the full and maine consent of the learned and auntient Fathers as you would haue it to doe and therefore make it free when the Carechisme swatueth from their sense and interpretation to be of another mind yet I condemne nothing in it as wicked but wish that soâ—…e few places had been more cleerly and more particularlâ—…e deliuered and expressed to auoid such cauillers as you and some others are But you with open mouth reiâ—…ct euen those places which now you produce as passing strange doctrine and simply impossible For where the Catechisme here in these words which you alleage saith Christ was Aeternae mortis horrore perfusus perfused or wholy touched with an horror which is a trembling feare of eternall death you not only reason against it that c Defenc. pag. 9â—… li. 13. Christ could not feare that which he perfectly knew concerned him not at all and by no meanes could euer possibly come neere him but you make it d li. 12. passing strange doctrine and simply impossible that Christ should feare or pray against the whole and intire cup of eternall death And yet the Catechisme saith he trembled and was ouercast with the horror of it You misâ—…ike that the Catechisme saith except you may peruert it to your pleasure and in steed of fearing eternall death you say Christ suffered the second death which is die death of the damned and so refusing the Catechisme for saying so much you say more and thinke the Catechisme is of your mind But sir tell vs how Christ could be stroken with the HORROR OF ETERNALL DEATH for those aâ—…e the wordes of the Catechisme and not how he suffered your new made hell which the Catechisme neuer speaketh of I haue deliuered two senses to salue the Catechisme which you impugne The first that Christ in respect of his members to whom that death was due might in loue and pietie towards them inwardly tremble at the punishment deserued by them since mercie maketh vs truely feele the very smart of other mens harmes and dangers and where we hartily loue no lesse then if they were imminent ouer our owne heads The second that Christ fearing the power of Gods wrath against sinne which is infinite may in a sort be sayd to tremble at the effects thereof by reason he trembled at the cause thereof And in this sense the consideration and apprehension of Gods infinite power and displeasure against sinne might brâ—…ede those horrible feares and sorrowes which the Catcchisme talketh of Otherwise I must be plaine the Catechisme sayth more then can be prooued by any Scripture or any learned and auncient Father and more then you your selfe allow or like saue that you would out of his vehement speaches make some aduantage to your cause though in substance you wholy dissent from the maker thereof For he speaketh of feare and sorrow you of re 〈◊〉 al solute suffering he of eternall death due to sin you of a new found hell from the immediate hand of God which is no part of the Catcchisers meaning since he plainely nameth future and euerlasting death due to sinners and not a present and temporall hell which is not the full wages of sinne nor of the damned The like I say for the notes added by the Printer or correctour to the great Bible whose text is authorized to be read in the Church but not the notes to be of equall credit or authoritie with the text And if you may turne of the whole aâ—…ay of auncient and Catholike Fathers because they diflent from your conceits how much lesse am I bound to correctours or Printers adding often times to other mens workes and labours what pleaseth themselues Though the note be not such but that it may receiue the former construction and be tolerated welâ—… enough Wherefore I meane euen the same giddy spirit which before I did buzzing in the eares of the people his owne fancies against the Scriptures against the Fathers and against the doctrine of this Realme confirmed by publike authoritie of Prince and Parliament The recollecting of your former reason so lately and largely answered I omit as tedious trifling and since you say no more then is before refuted what should I trouble my selfe and the Reader with repeating the same things so often iterated e Defenc pag. 118. li. 10. You haue yet heere and there some exceptions against this our doctrine which are not to be cleane neglected First you say I extend Christs agonie to farre because I will haue is proceede from the intolerable sorrowes and horrors of Gods siery wrath equall to â—…ell I shew not there the cause of Christs agonie and feare I shewed it of purpose in the beginning Why did you not refuse that You extend it so farre according to my wordes yea your maine purpose is to make that the cause of Christs agonie in the garden and on the crosse onely you would vse some cunning in the carriage of it first to make sorrowes and feares the cause thereof and at the next step to aske what sorrowes and feares could those be but the intolerable sorowes and horrors of Gods fierie wrath equall to hell And to this end you quote both the
Catechisme and the notes in the great Bible here to shew the cause of Christs agonie to be these horrible sorrowes and torments as the Catechisme sayth of future and euerlasting death Why then are you so nice when you fully intend it in shew to denie it why did you not refuse that in the beginning The causes that might concurre in Christs agonie I shewed in my sermons out of the auncient Fathers agreeing with the Scriptures why should I repeate it againe in my conclusion you bringing nothing against it but a few voluntarie and emptie words which I know no man so vnwise as to regard without better proofe f pa 118. li. 32 There is no other sorrow in the world to be found which can be imagined to be the cause possibly You erre as well in aggrauating Christs agonie aboue that the text auoucheth as in assigning a false cause thereof out of your owne fansie Feare and sorrow the Scripture affirmeth in Christ if we so interprete the words as you doe but such feare and such sorow as cannot be found in the world except the feares sorowes of the second death this is your bold assertion no way mentioned nor purposed in the Scriptures nor grounded on any sound reason or experience For where the paines of some kinds of bodily deaths be often greater then mans nature can endure and therefore violently part the soule from the body what did hinder the paines of Christs body on the crosse to be such that they pressed his patience to the highest degree since he would not strengthen his flesh to sustaine the paines of hell as you pretend but layd downe all power that he might feele the smart and anguish of his bodily torments as tenderly as any man could Now what paines in others ouerwhelme the senses and hasten death as passing the strength of mans nature why might not euen the same bodily paines in Christ so presse his humane weakenesse that he felt himselfe able with patience to support no more and so prayed on the crosse for an end thereof and foresaw so much in the Garden which made him earnest if it were possible to decline it What can be sayd against this sharpenesse and bitternesse of bodily paine since in all Martyrs and malefactours their deaths declare that paine in the end doth so preuaile that the rage thereof is vtterly intolerable to mans nature and therefore sundereth the soule from the body with extreme violence as exceeding all humanâ—… patience and strength g Defenc. pag. 118. li. 34. My other words also which here you cruelly condemne shall stand well enough that Christ as touching the vehemencie of paine was as sharpely touched as the reprobates themselues yea if it may be more extraordinarily though you labour with might and maine to make them amount to heresie and open blasphemie My words were more moderate then your dangerous comparisons deserued h Conclus pa. 290. li 35. I prayed you in so waightie matters as might amount to heresie and open blasphemie not to play with generall termes such as you neither vnderstood your selfe nor any man else could conceiue your meaning You would needs tell vs that Christ in soule was as sharpely touched and with as great vehemencie of paine euen as the reprobates themselues and more if it might be I asked you not where you found this written in the word of God which is the rule of our faith an vnwritten creâ—…de must needs haue vnwritten conclusions nor how you prooued it for your owne will is your best warrant for your new faith but what you ment thereby The terrors of the reprobates in this life which we might collect by the Scriptures were i Ibid. pa. 291. remorse of sinne reiection from Gods fauour desperation of mercie here and of all ioy and blisle in the world to come and a dreadfull expectation of horrible confusion and euerlasting fire k Ibidem I thought you durst not I hoped you would not offer so much as the mention of the least of these to be found in the sonne of God What wrong did I here vnto you were it not with too much sparing you and how plainly did I prouoke you to expresse your selfe but that your cunning is such that then you did and yet you doe forbeare to vnfold your generall and ambiguous speaches You persist still in your old song and say that touching the vehemencie of paine this is true As though remorse reiection desperation and expectation of euerlasting confusion and fire were NO PAINES to the soules of the reprobates Why play you with the name of paine to and fro after this sort Why role you sometimes to feares sometime to sorrowes sometime to paines as the causes of Christs agonie and those sometime apprehended by the mind of Christ sometime really inflicted by Gods immediate hand what Christ did or might apprehend you neuer declare you thinke it enough to tell vs his l Defenc. pag. 52. li. 35. vnderstanding chiefly conceiued the furie of that hand which principally strooke those blowes vpon his humane nature and thus with Metaphors you delude vs when you should distinctly deliuer what Christ conceiued of those afflictions which he suffered from the counsell and power of God determining them for mans redemption Yea besides apprehension and conception of mind you bring in your hell paines at your pleasure as an inherent and absolute torment really inflicted on the soule of Christ by Gods immediate hand as it is on all the damned after this life for the vengeance of their sinnes and when you are asked the proofe of these things you affourd vs figures and phrases to stuffe out your wallet m Defenc. pag. 119. li. 1. Why doe you not bend your odious outcries and accusations against the authoritie before truely cited which maintaineth the same so fully and amply as I deliuer it The Catechisme hath some generall words that Christ conflicted with all the powers of hell not as suffering them but as resisting them and that he endured horrible feares and griefes of mind to satisfie the iudgement of God and to pacifie his wrath These words if you will stretch to what please you they may seeme to haue some seedes of your error though not the buds and branches thereof but as they be generall so if we reuoke them to the grounds of the sacred Scriptures which was no doubt the writers and the allowers meaning then may we extend them no farder then we haue warrant in the word of God to iustifie them The feares and horrors which you would conuert to the reall suffering of the temporall hell the Catechisme referreth to the feare and horror of euerlasting death which you confesse Christ n Defenc pag. 99. most perfectly knew concerned him not at all and by no meanes could euer possibly come neere him How then doe you concurre with the authoritie which you cite saue that you peruert some generall words there
comprehend them or want patience in them and not see an end of them For if he did suffer them he did beare them and comprehend them except you make him impatient in his paines and the paines euerlasting in him a Defenc. 122. li. 10. The next is as vaine where you thinke it not tolerable that I say Christ in plaine wordes prayed contrary to his Fathers knowen will I pray haue patience I say no harme nor I meane Chrisâ—…s prayer was not contrary to Gods knowen will no ill A plaine patterne of vanitie if a man would seeke for he shall neede goe no farder then these eight pages spent in excusing your bold and sawcie assertion that is b Trea. pa. 59. li. 4. It is manifest in plaine words Christ prayed contrary to Gods knowen will And the consequents which you hang to it are worse then the words themselues that c Ibid. pa. 58. li. 11. he plainely corrected his will by Gods will and in correcting it was contrarie yea he knew it to be so and d Ibid. pa. 59. li. 6. vnlesse it were in astonishment e Ibid. pa. 59. li. 8. he could not haue wanted sinne For none of all these positions haue any trueth in them or proofe for them besides your wilfull mistaking and wresting the Scripture The woâ—…ds of our Sauiour as I haue shewed before haue foure expositions with the auncient Fathers euery one confirming that there was no contradiction indeede betweene the will of God the prayer of Christ. The first that Christ praied vpon a condition if man might possibly be otherwise saued and the Iewes not perish by his passion which Origen Ierom Bede do follow They put a speciall Emphasis in the words THIS CVP which should be the vtter desolation and reiection of the Iewes The next limiteth the word PASSE to POSSIBLE as if Christ had said let this cup passe from me as much as is possible by which he desireth a moderation of the punishment prouoked by our sinnes and yet referrâ—…th it to his Fathers will This Euthymius embraceth A third is that Christ confessed a naturall dislike of death and paine in the weaknesse of his flesh though his spirit did readily submit it selfe to the diuine will of his Father and of himselfe euen touching the death of the crosse This sense Chysostome Damascene and others doe bring The fourth that Christ here assumed and declared the weaknesse of his members who being no more then men should feare death but he by suffering that affection to rise in himselfe and repressing it did by his grace cure it in his when and as he seeth time and cause This Hilarie Cyrill and Austen doe like So that Christes wordes being euery way free from plaine and manifest contradicting Gods knowen will as you would make them to aduance your hell paines by them who but you would ship out such wine-shaken stuffe that Christ f Treat pa. 53. li. 32. was astonished forgetfull and all confounded in his whole humanitie both in all the powers of his soule and senses of his body that he knew not what he said or did or els he could not haue wanted sinne g Defenc. paâ—… 122. li 19. Neuer skoffe at it nor reproch it nor wrest it We ought not to be ashamed to acknowledge the weakenesse of humane nature in Christ which Christ was not ashamed of for our sakes to vndergoâ—… It is you that are ashamed of humane weaknesse in the flesh of Christ and therefore you deuise the torments of diuels in the soule of Christ and the paines of the damned because you thinke it a shame for him to haue his flesh afrayd of paine and death Right your selfe therefore by your owne rule and then you may well be ashamed of these monsters deuised by you whiles you shun to acknowledge mans weakenesse voluntarily receiued in the flesh of Christ as well to prooue the trueth of his owne manhood as the comfort and cure the infirmitie of our nature But why doe you not first prooue it and after presume it this pretending it to be plaine before any such thing doth appeare is no more but dreaming of a noble conquest when you haue receiued a shamefull foyle h Defenc. pag. 122. li. 22. Did not Christ in plaine words pray that if it were possible this houre might passe from him and before saue me â—…rom this houre doth he not then pray in plaine wordes contrary to Gods knowâ—… ill Who but a man confounded in all the powers of his sense and vndâ—…rstanding hauing so many expositions brought him out of learned and auncient Christ prayed with condition and reseruation of Gods will Fathers would in a rage reiâ—…ct them all without any regard and leaning onely to the wilfulnâ—…sse of hâ—…s owne imagination conclude with such confidence his owne vntoward conceits to be the true meaning of the sacred Scriptures If Fathers be but sathers with you doe you not heere three Euangelists Matthew Marke and Luke euidently exquisitely witnesse that Christ prayed with reseruation and submission to the will of God how then prayed he contrary to the knowen will of God i Treatis pa. 85. li. 12. In correcting it it was contrarie yea and he knew it to be so It is a signe you swell with no small liking of your selfe that little care to crosse all writers old and new without any cause but onely â—…or the good opinion you haue of your selfe M. Beza from whom you would seeme to borrow some points of your hell paines though you leaue him when you list as not worthy to teach you any thing directly and truâ—…ly refureth your error k Beza iu annot Obsâ—…ruandum est hac particula non corrigi superiorem peâ—…ionem ita enim fuisset in Christo vitium sed explicari qua conditione id peteret We must marke by this speach yet not as I will the former prayer is not CORRECTED for so it hâ—… bene a fault in Christ but it is declared with what condition Christ desired it So that your correcting Christs prayer by the plaine confession of M. Beza chargeth Christ with corruption of sinne yea and Christes knowing it so to be as you affirme that is to be contrarie to Gods will noteth a manifest and aduised contradiction in Christ to the will of God his Father which whether it be sinne or no let any that is but halfe a diuine iâ—…dge S. Iohn you say reporteth Christ to haue sayd absolutely l Iohn 12. Father saue me from this houre First Hilariâ—…s rule is of necessitie to be retained in expounding the Scriptures m Hilarius de trinitate li. 10. Prestant sibi mâ—…tuam Euangelia plenitudinem dum alia ex alijs quia omnia vnius spiritus predicatio sunt intelliguntur The Gospels make vp eche others fulnesse whiles oâ—…e is vnderstood by another all being the preaching of one spirit Since then it is expressed in three Euangelists
if it were possible that houre might passe from him Then he came and found them sleeping and said to Peter Couldest not thou watch one houre Watch ye and pray that ye enter not into temptation What signes or words are here of astonishment continuing astonishment stoppeth speech and motion as well as sense y Rhetoricorum ad Herâ—…nnium li. 4. Omnes stupidi timore obmutuerunt They all amazed with feare were mute sayth the heathen Oratour And so the Poet z Plautus in Epidiâ—…o Quid stas stupida quid taces Thou amazed thing why flandest thou still why art thou tongue-tied Yea Galen himselfe giueth euident testimonie that men amazed with feare neither speake nor doe any thing but stand still with their eyes open a Galenus in Aphorismos Hippocratis li. 7. apho 14. 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 Amazednesse is when men neither speake nor do any thing but abide silent with their eyes open like to men astonished with feare So that if Christ were astonished with feare or amazed he could neither haue done nor sayd any of those things which the Gospell reporteth he did and sayd and therefore vnlesse you can alter the rules of nature as you doe of Scripture Christ was in no such astonishment as you dreame of neither did his memory faile him in speaking those words for then how could he not haue rememâ—…red that they were spoken amisse and needed correction as you conceiue them Your selfe acknowledge that he might be It helpeth not you I sayd if we should so interpret the word which S. Marke vseth that Christ began to be afrayd or somewhat astonished for if b In verbo 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 be 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 to admire some sudden or strange sight as Phanorinus auoucheth then might our Sauiour approching Gods presence now sitting in iudgement to redeeme the world easily finde cause both of admiration and feare and yet be free and farre from suffering your hell paines And where you say my words are vtterly vntrue that c Defenc. pag. 123. li. 13. many things might astonish our Sauior for the time besides such paines they are truer than any thing you haue yet spoken or will speake of his astonishment For whether we respect the sight of his eyes or the apprehension of his minde he might either way beholde many things woorthie of that feare or astonishment which the Scripture describeth in him d Zanâ—…hius de Incar Christi li. 2. quaest 11. Thesi 2 de scientia Christi pa. 302. If with the eyes of his bodie cleered with diuine light Christ being in earth sayth Zanchius could see the things in heauen and being in heauen doth see what he will in earth as he saw and heard Steuen saying Lord Iesu receiue my spirit he saw and spake to Paul persuing him in his Church how much more can and could the soule of Christ see particular things in the word which is his Godhead So that either the eyes of Christ or the minde of Christ might beholde or consider the glory of Gods iudgement whereof he spake when he sayd e Iohn 12. Now euen at hand is the iudgement of this world or the greatnesse of mans sinne or power of Gods wrath or the vengeance deserued from which he was to ransome man and for which he was to satisfie God all these things might in more likelihood in some sort astonish the humane soule of Christ than the paines of the damned presently then inflicted on him with Gods immediate hand as you imagine but are no way able to proue saue by your owne conceit And therefore your second obseruation that these infinite incomprehensible and incomparable paines which you meane astonished is but the froth of your fansie for you shall neuer be able to iustifie any such thing by the text or historie of the Euangelists f Defenc pâ—…g 123. li. 20. Thirdly adde heereunto that which you rightly grant that it is true a mighty feare may so affect a man for the time that it shall hinder the senses from recouering themselues and stoppe the faculties from informing one another Likewise afterward astonishment draweth the mind so wholy to thinke on some speciall thing aboue our reach that during the time we turne not our selues to any other cogitation You take this to be true that I said and so do I but this vtterly subuerted your former position which now you recant that g Treat pa. 53. li. 32. Christ could not but be astonished forgetfull and all confounded in his whole humanity botâ—… in all the powers of his soule and senses of his body If Christ according to your desperate doctrine were all consounded in his whole humanity were not his vnderstanding and memory confouÌ„ded aswel as other parts of his humane nature If he were all confounded in all powers of his soule and senses of his body as your wicked error imagineth are not vnderstanding and memory powers of the soule and did not I charge you iustly and truely with casting Christ into an infernall confusion for the time since in hell it selfe they can be no more but all confounded in their whole manhoods both in all the powers of their soules and senses of their body Tell what confusion in hell is or can be more then all in all and I will yeeld I did you wrong If you cannot then bethinke your selfe how lewdly and loosely you aduentured all to confound Christ in all the powers of his soule and senses of his body in which case whether you leaue sense memory or vnderstanding vnconfounded in Chist I leaue to the censure of the discreet Reader h Defenc. pag. 124. li. 1. I say as you say he now on the suddaine might turne neither sense nor memory to any other obiect and so not thinke on any thing els but onlie on this terrible and mighty sorow and feare Your helpers haue aduised you to recall that forgetfulnesse and all confusion in all the powers of Christs soule senses of his body which before you sounded out with such waine loades of wordes as was maruailous and now you be come to say as I say that there was no confusion in the powers of Christs soule nor in the senses of his body but an intentiâ—…e cogitation on some fearefull or sorowfull thing which for the time so detained the powers of the soule as on a matter most importing and nearest touching the state of himselfe either in soule or in body that he did conuert them to no other obiect If you say thus with me then must you say farder with me that as soone as Christ beganne to vse speach or conuert his cogitation to praier this astonishment was eased and howsoeuer feare was not altogether dispelled yet he could no longer be said to be amazed or to seeke what to doe For praier to God without the mind intending and attending it is sinne which might not be in Christ and
anouch his prayers were made in faith sufficiently prepared directed aright and assured to receiue yet onely sor this cause seeing he did not remember at that instant when he prayed Gods will so plainly reuealed vnto him and so often foretold by himselfe And yet the wordes themselues which Christ vsed in his prayer are directly referred to Gods will and whatsoeuer Christ feared or felt according to your conceit he was right sure was inflicted on him by Gods immediate hand and consequently by Gods will whose hand doth not worke without his will and yet seeing and feeling it to be Gods hand and so Gods will you make him not remember that it was Gods will What else is this but to make forgâ—…tfulnesse to be faith and error to be assurance and confusion to be sufficient preparation of the mind vnto prayer which are more then monsters in Christian religion and from which our Lord and master must be as free as from sinne q Defenc. pag. 126. li. 26. All in vaine then doe you charge me that I stretch the Scriptures beyond their wordes and trueth when in my discourse I shew that Christ in the Garden was astonished and grieuously perplexed the text hauing onely he began to be astonished and grieuously perplexed You tooke vpon you in your Treatise without all proofe against the plaine wordes and plainer circumstances of the text to pronounce that Christ in the Garden r Treat pa. 55. fell amazed and sorgetfull of himselfe and s Ibid. pa. 53. could not be but astonished ouerwhelmed and all confounded in his whole humanitie both in all the powers of his soule and senses of his bodie and vnlesse this had beene in him he had sinned in deede The ground of all this geere you made the words of S. Marke 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 he began to be afraid and in great heauinesse I obserued out of Ierom that it is one thing to begin to be heauie or sorrowfull as the text saith another thing to haue the Passion of heauinesse or sorrow to ouerwhelme the mind as you would haue it In this you say I charge you all in vaine and why so because the Scripture doeth sometime vse the word to beginne where the continuance followeth Had Ierom made no farder reason then that Christ began to be afraid and so auouched that nothing beginning might proceede or continue the places of Scripture heere heaped by you might haue made some shew but Ierom giueth a good reason of his words that the passion of feare and sorrow might not be excessiue and dominant in the mind of Christ because it is the sinfull corruption of our nature to be so ouerswayed with immoderate and suddaine affections in which he could not communicate with vs. This reason you skip and bend your selfe to proue the Scripture vseth the wordes he began where the action had continuance As though any man doubted thereof but as well good as bad actions must haue their beginnings before they can haue any proceeding or continuing but doth that word prooue that euery thing once begun is brought to an end or that euery affection rising in mans nature groweth to the highest degree if the word stand indifferent to signifie the beginning of euery action or affection either interrupted before the end or proceeding and continuing to the end and height thereof then make those words nothing for your extreme confusion of feare sorow growing to the greatest height that might be as you imagine And that the word naturally signifieth a beginning in the Scriptures without any necessitie that the action or affection should continue though some might proceede and increase where the Scripture testifieth so much there can be no question In the fourteenth of Luke Christ shewing by a familiar example of a builder how ridiculous and odious it is to begin a good thing and not to performe it repeateth the common mocke that followeth such vaine enterprises This man 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 began to build but could not make an end So sayth the Apostle to the Galathians t Galat. 3. Are you so vnwise that 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 beginning in the spirit you will end in the flâ—…sh S. Matthew describeth how Peter walking on the water towards Christ and beholding a mightie winde was stroken with feare u Matth. 14. 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 and beginning to sincke cried Lord saue me And Iesus straightway stretched out his hand and stayed him So in many other places x Philip. 1. I am persuaded of this that 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 he which hath begun a good worke in you will performe it to the day of Christ. When the tenne Disciples heard Iames and Iohn desire that one of them might sit at Christes right hand and the other at his left in glorie y Marc. 10. 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 they began to disdaine â—…ames and Iohn but Christ presently called his Disciples vnto him and by his speech repressed ambition on the one side and indignation on the other So Peter when those that stood by him in the high Priests hall charged him by his tongue to be one of Christs followers z Matth. 26. 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 he began to curse and sweare he knew not the man And immediatly the cocke crew and Peter remembring the words of Iesus went out and wept bitterly repenting his fault An hundred examples might be brought where the word is in the like sort vsed to signifie the beginning of any thing as well without continuance as with when the Scripture expresseth so much but these are so cleere that they admit no contradiction And therefore Ieroms obseruation is verie true and grounded on better reason than your refutation a Defenc. pag. 127. li. 2. As Christ was indeed astonished so he did at first but begin to be thus then afterward grew to the full That he began to be afrayd the Euangelist sayth that he afterward grew to the full no Euangelist writeth any such thing except you take vpon you to be the fift Euangelist boldly and falsely to auouch that which the other foure doe not mention And as you enlarge the circumstances of the Euangelists so doe you restraine the significations of their words as pleaseth you for 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 by all Interpreters and euen by such as were the first deuisers of Christes forgetfulnesse is rendered expauescere to be afrayd and not to be astonished Caluine doth thus â—…xpresse the words oâ—… S. Marke Caepit expauescere moerore affâ—…ci b Caluin harmonia in Marci ca. 14. Christ began to be afrayed and affected with griese As in S. Matthew he translateth the word 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 affici moestitudine to be touched with heauinesse and timor moestitia feare and heauinesse are all the words that by any warrant of sacred Scriptures Caluin could finde Beza in his Latine translation keepeth the same word Caepit expauescere Christ
Christ this agonie and from his feare he was deliuered To say as you do that it was eternall death and euâ—…rlasting malediction which Christ here thus wofully and distressefully feared is the strangest speech in Diutnity that euer I heard You cunningly dissemble as your maner is that Pag. 22. which you quote I professed to refuse no mans opinion that s Seâ—…m pag. 22. li. 2. agreed any way with the rules of trueth and thereupon layed downe three things which Christ might 〈◊〉 in the Cup of Gods wrath and by his prayer accordingly decline them to wit 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 corporall 〈◊〉 aboue his strength and the separation of his soule from hiâ—… bodâ—…e by deâ—…th The feare of eternall death which is vrged by some of good learning and euen by the Catechisme on which you would seeme to stand so much if we admiâ—…ted in Christ himselfe I sayd must be taken for a Religious dislike and shunning of hell t Sermo pag. 23. li. 4. not for any distrust of his owne saluation or doubt of Gods displeasure against himselfe which we could not imagine in Christ without euident want of grace and losse of faith and these we might not attribute to Christs person no not for an instant Where then I alleage so many reasons Pa. 23. u li. 32. guarding Christs person most sufficiently froâ—… all danger and doâ—…bt of eternall death thence you collect that I auouch Christ thus â—…ofully and distressefully feared euerlasting damnation which is a strange and 〈◊〉 falsehood though familiar with you as if without such grosse stuffe you could not 〈◊〉 out your pamphlet The Catechisme we heard before saying that Christ was Aeternae mortis horrore persusus wholly touched with the horror of 〈◊〉 death M. Caluin sayth as much x Caluin in li. 2. ca. 16. sect 10. Vnde eum oportuit cum Infâ—…rorum copiâ—…s 〈◊〉 mortis horrore quâ—…si consertis manibus luctari Wherefore Christ was to wrestle hâ—…nd in 〈◊〉 with all the power of hâ—…ll and with the horrour of ETERNALL death Others might be brought in like sort but these suffice to discharge me that I did not imagine these things of mine owne head but found them in men of good learning and iudgement which yet I did not receiue except we did expound their words to import in Christ a religious feare declining euerlasting death in himâ—…elfe or affectionately sorowing when he consideâ—…ed what was due to vs for ouâ—… sinnes Wherefore if you make so strangâ—… of these words stirre against your authorized Catechisme and Master Caluin who first vsed them y Defenc. pâ—…g 130. li. 20. You cannot helpe your selfe in making Christes â—…eare of this death to be onely a religious feare and a feare for others these imaginations I haue remoued before Then you perceiue well enough in what sense I admit their words but to aduantage your selfe you dispence with a slaunderous lie Your remoouing is like the roling of paper to make pipes withall you play still on one string and that so much out of tune that euery man is wearie with hearing it besides your selfe z li. 29. These affections you say were not likelie in him at all much lesse to be the causes of such effects As though Christ had none other causes of sorow but onely this And what vnlikelihood that these should be in Christ at this season sauing that your fansie leadeth you to what you list These are not feare properly they ought rather to be called a religious care and pittâ—…e which differ greatly from the nature of feare properly taken Did I professe that Christ feared euerlasting death properly did I not rather excuse or qualifie the vehemencie of their wordes who put in Christ an horror of eternall death you reason now against the Catechisme which you make shew to maintaine and not against me For other feare of euerlasting death in Christ then improper I acknowledge none You thinke the nature of enlabeia will not admit any proper feare Then doe you conuince your selfe to be a notable deluder and abuser of the trueth For you are not ignorant what I say but you peruert it of purpose to miscarie your Reader and countenance your cause a li. 38. What say you did Christ doubt eternall damnation and therefore feared it you lacke a woodden dagger to become your part better haue I any such wordes or sense I shew the generall signification of â—…labeia to be b Conclus pa. 305. li. 25. a carefull and diligent regard to beware or decline that which we mislike or doubt and that as well in priuate and publike affaires as in Religion and you applie this as if I had sayd Christ feared and doubted eternall damnation Whereas I neither mention eternall damnation in all that section nor so much as name Christ within fourtie lines of those wordes which shew how largely enlabeia is taken You speake so darkly that I know not how to take you You double so continually that I cannot tell what to make of you I haue in the same page 305. whence you tooke these wordes distinctly shewed what parts of Gods wrath Christ might be said to feare or suffer and in what sense and yet you complaine of darknesse when you shun the light and watch for a word applied to another purpose pretending you must needes stumble at that straw And therefore neuer come in with any after close what my meaning may be if my wordes be not plaine reprooue them if they be refute them except you receiue them This you say commeth neerest to the signification of the Greeke word I graunt it doth touching eulabeia but in Maâ—…ke the word doth import properly feare and that in extremitie It is happie yet that when you cannot chuse you will graunt that which is fully prooued to your face In your vnlearned Treatise you would needs make as vnlearned an obseruation that c Treatis pag. 74. li. 22. this very word not onely in other Authors but in the Scripture is vsed for a perplexed feare And when your ignorance is conuinced for enlabâ—…ia is not onely lesse then 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 which is feare in the Greeke tongue but contrarie to it because it is the d De placitis Philoso li. 7. in zenone declining of euill with reason and circumspection as Diogenes Laertius writeth you graunt that which you cannot gainesay With as much skill you auouch that ekthambeiâ—…thai doth import properly feare and that in extremitie whereas properly it noteth admiration at any strange or suddaine sight Whether feare be ioyned with it or no which sometime is according to the cause and circumstance of the place e Defenc. pag. 131. li. 8. My reason that Eulabeia heere signifieth feare properly yea a perplexed feare and not onely a religious deuotion as you say is grounded not so much on the nature of the word as on the circumstances of the place and the other wordes of the text Christ did as
lachrymas modo oculis sed sanguinis guttas è corpore exprimit seria deuota oratio vt in trepidatione Christi est cernere Serious deuote praier doth not onely draw teares from the eyes but a bloudie sweate from the bodie as we see in Christes Agonie And surely the writer of the Epistle to the Hebrewes must either not collect this from the Scripture but report it besides the Scripture which is somewhat dangerous os else by the sweate of Christes face trickling downe to the ground he collected that in that in entiue and vehement prayer teares ran downe as fast as sweate and ioyntly with sweate and other sound gathering it from the Scriptures there is none And this collection if you graunt that the Apostle from the vehemencie of Christs prayer obserued the cause of the one to be the cause of the other since it was not possible the face should runne with sweate through the feruencie of prayer and not the eyes with teares then graunt you that it may soundly be gathered from the Scriptures that zeale of prayer and not heate of paine was the cause of Christs bloudy sweate z Defenc. pag. 132. li. 34. The Apostle in all reason may be vnderstoode to haue respect to all the woefull times and cries of our Sauiour as on the crosse and in the 12. of Iohn There is no reason to extend the Apostles wordes to Christs praier in the 12. of Iohn for there the Scripture doth not mention either strong cries or teares which are the Apostles words On the crosse he vsed a loud voice but teares he shed none neither was the sense of his prayer there to be freed from death but rather to hasten his death to which he had now wholy submitted himself according to his Fathers will And therefore your stretching the Apostles wordes to all those times to make Christs agonie if you could tell how to continue on the crosse wanteth all reason His paine most increased on the crosse and his sorow rising thence could not decrease but neither his astonishment nor that which the Scripture calleth his agonie accompanied with his bloodie sweate continued on the crosse You thinke it vnreasonable to say that Christ on the crosse had persistance in ioy and beheld God alwayes fauourable and faithfull vnto him a Defenc. pag. 132. li. 38. without intermission or obscuration though his flesh in which sinne was condemned and his body where he bare our sinnes were subiected to most shamefull and cruell torments fâ—…om the hands of the wicked what vncoherence is there in those wordes or what disagreement from the Scriptures I saw the Lord alwayes before me said Dauid concerning Christ. For he is at my right hand that I should not be moued If this beholding of God were b Sermon pâ—… 116 li. 25. alwayes then was there no intermission if before his face then was there no obscuration These are my words which why you should dislike or how you can refute I doe not see You can touch nothing which you one way or other turne not out of his right course Firmenesse of faith and assurance of hope I giue vnto Christ on the Crosâ—…e and either of those bring with them inward ioy of mind how much soeuer our outward state be troubled or our flesh afflicted Neither are these such contraries as cannot stand together since they are both in diuers parts and for diuers respects S. Peter saith c 1. Peter 1. we reioyce in the faith of saluation though for a season wee are in heauinesse through manifold temptations S. Iames saith my d Iames 1. brethren count it an exceeding ioy when ye fall into diuers tentations S. Paul saith e Rom. 5. we reioyce vnder the hope of the glory of God neither so onely but also we reioyce in tribulation knowing that tribulation bringeth foorth pâ—…tience experience and hope which maketh not ashamed Then as it is no absurditie that the spirit should be readie and the flesh weake nor that the inward man should be renewed when the outward man perâ—…sheth no more is it any repugnancie that Christ should haue ioy in the holy Ghost and in hope when he found and felt exceeding affliction in his flesh and as the Apostle teacheth f Hebr. 12. for the ioy set before him endured the crosse and despised the shame thereof If then there be ioy in hope how could Christ want ioy if he wanted not hope and hope if you take from him you leaue him in despaire which is the losse of hope which whether you will adde to the rest of your vnsound faith I leaue it to your choice Notwithstanding your selfe in this very booke allow to Christ on the crosse and in his agonie by reason of the very same wordes which I cite page 116. not onely g Defenc. pag. 110. li. 28. 34. constant and continuall ioy in God but exceeding and generall ioy with which whether your hell and perpetuall extreme agonie as well on the Crosse as in the Garden may stand I referre it to the sober and wise Reader h Defenc. pag. 133. li. 3. 1. How vaine is this consequent how false are these sayings and contrarie to the Scripture in the circumstances that his astonishment must continue eighteene houres from his entering into the garden to the ending of his life the next day at three of the clocke afternoone Indeed it is most absurd and openly repugnant to the Scriptures and to all the circumstances thereof to defend that Christs agonie which you say was the cause of his astonishment or his astonishment which was the effect thereof continued on the Crosse and yet such is your error that you make Christs spirituall paines on the crosse to be greater then in the Garden and his astonishment to be lesse because you doe not find that on the crosse where his paine was present and most sharpe he prayed ought against the knowen will of God as you auouch he did in the Garden Your supposing and presuming without all warrant of holie Scripture that God with his immediate hand inflicted the paines of the damned on the soule of Christ i Defenc. pag. 133. li. 9. 10. sometimes more sometimes lesse and sometimes more suddainly then at other times and sometimes staying it and this variablenesse of Gods hand to be the true cause of Christs astonishment is a saucie senselesse and shifting imagination aggrauating easing and iterating Gods hand at your pleasure and yet such is the folly and fâ—…lshood of your doctrine that without this desperate deuice euery child would crie shame on you For where on the Crosse by your owne confession Christes meere spirituall paines most increased euen there his astonishment was none at all and though you teach it not possible for Christ not to sinke and k Treat pag. 54. li. 28. not to be confounded vnder the burden yet when he l Ibid. pag. 63. li. 15. came to
death for which we must not pray But whosoeuer is borne of God sinneth not that sinne and so neither Christ who was the true Sonne of God nor any of his chosen who are the children of God by adoption can sinne that sinne nor die that death because he that is begotten of God liueth by God who is eternall life to all that know him and cleaue vnto him without separation If then the sinnes of the Elect be not vnto death but such as we in pietie may and in charitie must pray for consequently the death of the soule here meant by Saint Iohn is such as is not incident to any of the sonnes of God and so not the temporall hell which you communicate to Christ and his members Heere are your eight places of Scriptures proouing as you pretend the second death of the soule which you ascribe to Christ in euery one of which saue the first and second there can be no question but euerlasting damnation is intended and in those two the guiltinesse of eternall death which is due to sinne may be comprised in the name of death which the Apostle iustifieth when he sayth t Rom. 5. v. 12. The offence of one came on all men vnto condemnation which is in effect that he sayd before Death went ouer all men forasmuch as all men haue sinned But that any of these intend your temporall hell brought into this life not by snares and feares working on the soules of men but by substance and essence and not eternall death in hell fire with the Diuell and his Angels you nor all your adherents shall euer be able by any ground of holy Scripture to make it appeare And therefore your presuming it vpon the bare shew of places concluding no such thing is a pestilent intrusion vpon the word of God whiles you sticke not to couple your conceits which are false and erroneous with his vndoubted and vndefiled trueth x Defenc. pag. 135. li. 31. First ordinarily and commonly it belongeth only to the damned wherewithall are the ordinarie accidents and concomitants desperation induration vtter darknesse c. with perpetuitie of punishment and that locally in HELL Generally and truely the Scriptures neuer vse the name of the second death but for the lake burning with euerlasting fire into which the Diuell and all the Reprobate shall be cast and whatsoeuer you otherwise pretend is your owne absurd deuice without the Scriptures and against the Scriptures to keepe your doctrine from open derision and detestation And since your selfe acknowledge that this is the ordinarie and vsuall doctrine of the Scriptures it shal be needfull for your Reader to hold you to that till you fully proue your extraordinarie deuice by the same Scriptures by which the other is euidenly confirmed and so much openly confessed by you y Defenc. pag. 135. li. 36. In this sense the Fathers generally do take it where they denie that Christ suffered the death of the soule and so do we If your cause haue so little holde in the Scriptures it hath lesse in the Fathers who in the necessarie worke of our redemption thought it sacriledge to say any thing that was not apparently proued by the Scriptures And as you light not on a true word when you come to deliuer vs the mysteries of your new hell so this is patently false that the Fathers generally take the death of the soule for eternall damnation only when they denie that Christ died the death of the soule They speake as the Scriptures leade them and confessing two deaths of the soule as the Scriptures doe which are sinne excluding all grace and the wages of sinne euen euerlasting damnation they generally denie that Christ died any death of the soule and haue for confirmation of their doctrine therein the whole course of the sacred Scriptures concurring with them x Defenc. pag. 135. li. 37. Secondly the death of the soule or the second death may be extraordinarily and singularly considered namely to imply no more but simply the very nature and essence of it You broach two apparent and euident vntrueths which you make the whole foundation of your presumptuous errour First that either Christ or his Elect in this life did or do suffer the very nature and essence of the second death Next that the Scriptures do singularly and extraordinarily reserue that kinde of second death for Christ and his members Shew either of these by the word of God before you make them grounds of your doctrine or els any meane Reader may soone conceiue you meane to teach no trueth confirmed in the Scriptures but a bolde and false deuice of your owne which you would extraordinarily intrude vpon the word of God a Defenc. pag. 136. li. 5. This is a death to the soule as before we haue shewed according to this sense the Scriptures and Fathers before noted may rightly be vnderstood not to denie it in Christ. When you glaunced before at the death of Christes soule you prayed vs to haue patience When the Defender shouâ—…d proue the death of Christs soule he sayeth bee hâ—…th proued it already till you came to the place where we should receiue a reasonable satisfaction and now you are come to the place where you should make iust and full proofe thereof you send vs backe againe and say you haue shewed it before What meaneth this doubling and deceiuing of your Reader but that you would seeme to haue many proofs when indeed you haue none and therefore you post vs to and fro to seeke for that we shall neuer finde In the 113. Page of this Defence you went about by your miserable misconstruing of certaine wordes vsed by some of the Fathers to enforce a shew of a death on the soule of Christ but against the haire as there I haue proued and therefore stand not on your former vnfortunate aduentures but either heere make proofe by the Scriptures that Christ died the death of the soule or leaue prating and publishing it so confidently as you and your adherents do for the chiefe part of mans redemption The Scriptures and Fathers you say before noted may rightly be vnderstood not to denie it in Christ. Is this all you haue to say for the death of Christes soule that the Scriptures and Fathers may be vnderstood not to denie it The Scriptures must affirme it before you can make it any point of Christian religion or part of our reconciliation to God b Rom. 10. Faith is by hearing and hearing by the word of God and not by not denying If that be your course to put any thing to the Creed which you list to say the Scriptures doe not denie you may quickly haue a large Creed containing all things which the Scriptures abused with your figures and wrested to your fansies shall not in expresse words as you thinke denie c Defenc. pag. 136. li. 9. Moreouer let it be obserued that if we had no proofes at all
bend against all rules of learning Logicke Grammar and Diuinitie For I pray you in Grammar what is 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 and 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 here vsed by the Apostle Are the parts heere noted that were crucified and raised to life or the cause from which first death was suffered and after life was recouered by our Sauiour A man would thinke that 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 were by or through weaknesse euen as 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 is by or through the power of God Christ then was crucified not by the immediate hand of God but by the Iewes who could not crucifie his soule as they did his bodie If you know not who crucified Christ reade the Gospell afresh or hearken to S. Peter who sayd to the Iewes g Act. 2. Iesus of Nazaret haue ye taken by the hands of the wicked and crucified and slaine and proclaimed openly to the Rulers of the people and Elders of Israel h Act. 4. Be it knowen to you all and to all the people of Israel that by the name of Iesus Christ of Nazaret whom ye haue crucified whom God raised againe from the dead by him this Creeple standeth whole before you The Iewes then i 1. Cor. 2. crucified the Lord of glorie who could not kill the soule but onely the bodie Therefore they crucified onely his bodie and other crucifiers of Christ the Scripture nameth none How come you then against all learning and trueth to collect that Christs soule was crucified k Defenc. pag. 139. li. 25. His infirmitie the text heere nameth metonimically vnderstanding in Christ that in which his infirmities were When the plaine text will not serue your turne you fasten what you list with figures to it and then by as good Logicke you change a part into the whole and conclude like a Doter in Diuinitie for you skorne all degrees as you doe all rules of Schoole that Christs soule was nailed to the crosse for that is crucifying and died as well as his body These be woonderous leapes in my small vnderstanding and such as few men but you could light on so readily In stâ—…d of the Apostles speech that Christ was crucified 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 through infirmitie or by reason of infirmitie voluntarily imbraced whiles he submitted himselfe to his Fathers will to clap in this conclusion that Christ was crucified and died as well in soule as in body Had you liued in former ages what heresies could not you haue deduced from the text it selfe if not by Grammaticall or Logicall inference yet by metonymicall and metaphoricall excurrence Sampsons riddle was out of the strong came sweetnesse and we may say out of the weake commeth bitternesse l Defenc. pag. 139. li. 37. Other reasons also I noted seruing well heereunto but I omit to rehearse them againe For it seemeth your selfe agreeth with vs in them holding expresly that the spirit heere in Peter is the Deitie of Christ according to Austins iudgement Now this being granted and acknowledged how can it be likely but that the other opposite part of the flesh must needes import his whole and entire Manhood m Pag. 140. li. 11. Now this being so then it followeth by the text that Christ in his Passion was done to death both in soule and body Your other reasons tended after your maner to shew that spirit in Peters words did not signifie the soule of Christ to which I said nothing because I therein agreed with you Where then you conclude ouer-hastily that therefore it signifieth the Deitie of the second person in Trinitie the text enforceth no such thing as that the second person in Trinitie did in the daies of Noe preach by his owne Godhead and not by his spirit n Gene. 6. The Lorde said my spirit shall not alway strine with man his daies shall be 120. yeeres Which whether we take to be the wordes of the Father or the Sonne by the spirit there is ment the holy Ghost which proceedeth from the Father and the Sonne and is called the spirit of them both and did by the tongue of Noe the Preacher of righteousnesse witnesse the iudgement of God to come by the floud vpon the wicked and disobedient world By this power of his which is his spirit God quickned the humane flesh of Christ when it was crucified and dead in the graue and by the same spirit shall he restore and quicken all the bodies of the faithfull after they be turned to dust And although I haue no doubt but the workes of the Trinitie towards all creatures are vndeuided and the power of the Father is the power of the Sonne yet when the Scriptures doe testifie that Christes humane flesh was quickned by the spirit we must vnderstand the holy Ghost God the Father raising his Sonne and the Sonne raising himselfe by the spirit of sanctification which is the power of the Father and of the Sonne So speaketh the Apostle to the Romanes o Rom. 1. Christ made of the seede of Dauid as touching the flesh and declared to be the Sonne of God with power through the spirit of sanctification by the resurrection from the dead Where his flesh made of the seede of Dauid prooueth him to be a true man and the mightie declaration of him to be the Sonne of God sheweth his Diuine nature and glorie which most appeared by the woonderfull works and gifts of the spirit of sanctification powred out on all his after he was once riâ—…en from the dead Least you thinke this my deuice to defeate your obseruation heare what the learned and auncient Fathers say thereof Chrysostome vpon those wordes of Paule Christ was declared to be the Sonne of God with power through the spirit of sanctification p Chrysoâ—…t in epistolam ad Romanos ho-â—…l 1. The fourth argument of Christs Diuinitie is drawen saith he from the spirit which he gaue to those that beleeued in him and by which he sanctified them all Wherefore Paule saith through the spirit of sanctification For onely God was able to giue those kindes of giftes Ierom. Through the spirit of sanctification Paul q Hieron in ca. 1. epistola ad Romanos noteth heere the holie Ghost the Creator Ambrose Paul r Ambros inca primum 〈◊〉 ad Romanos calling Christ the Sonne of God sheweth God to be his father and adding the spirit of sanctification noteth the mistery of the Trinity Augustine that Paul saith s August in expositio inchoata epistolae ad Rom. Through the spirit of sanctification he meaneth because they receaued the gift of the spirit after Christs resurrection Theodoret the Apostle heere teacheth t Theodoretus in ca. 1. epist. ad Rom. that he who was called the Sonne of Dauid according to the flesh was declared to be the sonne of God by the power which was shewed from the holy Ghost after our Lord Iesus was risen from the dead Oecumenius u Oecumenius in
according to Austins meaning who herein ioineth with the Scriptures Christ then lyâ—…ing in soule with perfect obedience and patience and assuredly knowing God to be his God his Father complaineth that he was left or forsaken that is either not deliuered from his troubles afflictions but left in sinners hands to do their pleasure with him or deuested of his power and left through weaknesse vnto death which should for a season seuer his soule from his bodie or lastly lest in this shame of the crosse anguish of body without any open or sensible shew or signe of Gods fauour towards him or care for him All these kindes of forsaking the learned and ancient Fathers acknowledge in Christ on the crosse and other forsaking of the soule they admit none howsoeuer you falsly pretend their full agreement Come now to your conclusion if you could euince that Christes soule was vtterly forsaken of God and depriued of life which you can neuer and to offer it will conuince you of hainous and wilfull heresie and blasphemie yet can you conclude no more but the death of the soule in this life which is either ignorance or contempt of God Hell paines you cannot inferre nor the torments of the damned which are the second death and so your great flourish out of Austen for the death of Christes soule is but a â—…aw And the Reader may see with what vnderstanding and conscience you read and alleage the Fathers that where you acknowledge e Defenc. pag. 142. li. 12. they doe denie this phrase generally that Christ died in soule yet you boldly and lewdly affirme the next line before they f li. 11. grant the thing in effect as if they denied that in wordes which indeed they knew to be a part of the Christian faith and were like you who shift and lie for life to support your owne Deuices But in all these shewes of yours the aduised Reader shall finde nothing but a carelesse and senselesse resolution to saie anie thing rather then to admit a trueth or to relent from the least of your conceits whereof he may haue a full proofe in your words next following g Defenc pag. 142. li. 16. Let this be the answer touching all your Fathers and Councels which you bring abundantly heere and there about this point of the soules death A short answer indeede if it had either trueth or sense in it It is right a colts tricke when he will not or can not endure the loade to cast the whole packe off at once That they generally deny the death of Christes soule you grant and with a brazen face and barren head you adde they meane otherwise they deny not the thing but onely the phrase What is this but to suppâ—… vp the trueth with a sadde countenance and to belch foorth your shame with open mouth had you examined their places your shifts sleights and vntrueths would haue loaden a carrect you haue better now prouided for your selfe with belying them all at once you haue incurred but one inconuenience But like is your Defence to your cause it entred first with aduantage of phrases and so it will end with a wind-mill of wordes Well that the Christian Reader may perceaue how auncient and vniuersally consented and confirmed by the church of Christ this truth hath beene which I teach that Christ died no death for our redemption but the death of the body onely to those Fathers which you say are abundantly brought by me already I will adde others that though there be no care nor conscience in you yet all men in whom there is any sense may see your deuice of the death of Christes soule and of hell paines and the most vehement torments of the damned suffered by him to be not onely a falsitie repugnant to the Scriptures but a noueltie against the maine consent and confession of all antiquitie If their testimonies be long and many thou wilt bâ—…are with me Christian Reader I hope the expence of a little paper to me or paine to thee is not so deare as the cause it selfe both for thy direction and for my discharge First then thou shalt heare that Christ died in bodie alone which is my assertion and withall that Christ died not in soule which is their conceit contradicted by all the Fathers and in the end we will shortly view whether these Fathers crosse their new found redemption in words oâ—… matter The places I thinke good to repeate in Latine or Grecke as much as shall need which otherwise I refraine of purpose to decrease the volume least it should be too great that the Reader should ncither distrust my translating nor make long search for the wordes themselues in ech Writer if happily he desire to see them Tertullian prouing the resurrection of our bodies by Christs example saith h Tertull. de Resurrect carmis ca. 48. Sine dubio si mortuum sisepultum audis secundum scripturas NON ALIAS QVAM IN CARNF aequâ—… resuscitatum in carne conced â—…ipsum enim quod â—…idit in mortem quod iacuit iâ—…sepulchro hoc resurrexit non tam Christus in carne quà m caro Christi Without Christ died no death of the soule by the iudgement of all the Fathers question if thou heare that CHRIST DIED that he was buried according to the Scriptures NONE OTHERWISE THEN in the flesh thou wilt grant that he was likewise raised in the flesh For that very thing which fell by death which lay in the graue that surely rose not so much Christ in the flesh as the flesh of Christ. And in the same place Dominus i Ibidem quanquam animam circumferret trepidantem vsque ad mortem sed non cadentem PER MORTEM The Lord though he caried about a soule fearing vnto death YET NOT FALLING BY DEATH Origen k Origen li. 5. in ca. 5. epist. ad Romanos By sinne saith Paul came death that death no doubt whereof the Prophet saith the soule that sinneth the same shall die whereof a man may iustly call this bodily death a shadow For whither soeuer that pierceth of force this followeth as a shadow doth the bodie If a man obiect that our Sauiour did no sinne neither was there in him the death of the soule by reason of any sinne and yet he sustained a corporall death we will answere him that where Christ owed this death to none nor was obnoxious to it yet for â—…ur saluation of his owne accord and by no necessitie he vndertooke this so aboue called shadow of death l Ibidem This common death then he did vndergoe but that death of sinne which raigned ouer all others he did not admit Athanasius m Athanas. contra Arianos oratione 3. 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 What els was that which was crucified but the bodie of Christ And againe Christs n Ibidem resurrection could not be without death 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 And how could
prepared which were requisite to offer the sacrifice for our sinnes behold the Priest with his sacrifice Christ with his body the body I say of him that was God who through voluntary obedience to his Father and most ardent loue to vs offered himselfe to God for a most sweet smell And where did he offer himselfe on the altar of the Crosse he suffered and died and that on the crosse k Ibidem Patitur in anima summam tristitiam timorem ignominiam in corpore summos dolores in singulis membris atrocissima flagella l Ibidem In ligno moritur vt mors per lignum ingressa in mundum per lignum tolleretur è mundo He suffered in soule most exceeding heauinesse feare and shame In his bodie most bitter paines in euerie member most grieuous scourges On the tree he died that as death came into the world by a tree so it might be taken out of the world by a tree m Idem in ca. 1. ad Ephes. v. 7. To that point how we are redeemed the Apostle saith by his bloud that is by 〈◊〉 sacrifice which consisted of the offering of his body deliuered to death and his bloud shed 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 fuit proprius modus this was the proper manner or onely way how we must be redeemed from the captiuitie of sinne and death This n Ibidem sacrifice which is often signified by the name of Christeâ—… bloud alone is that price of which the Prophets before and after the Apostles say we were redeemed by it For o Ibidem we are redeemed and haue remission of sinnes in Christ by his onely bloud p Idem de tribus 〈◊〉 1. cap. 5. test 9. This is euen he who by the onely sacrifice of his bodie should effectually clense the sinnes of the world And so againe The Apostle q Idem in ca. 1. ep ad Coloss. vers 22. expresseth the materiall cause of our reconciliation or the thing wherewith the Father reconciled vs to himselfe to 〈◊〉 by the oblation of the true and humane body of Christ deliuered to death for our sinnes This he meaneth when he saith in the body of his flesh through death For this body which was truely flesh and an humane body not simply but as it died is the matter of our reconciliation by that was reconciliation made He r Ibidem ioineth the body with bloud because both are the price of our reconciliation and by both were our sinnes clensed The Apostle then s Ibidem signifieth reconciliation was by the oblation of the body of Christ as by the true sacrifice sor sinne Zanchius speaketh not precisely you will say against the death of Christes soule In plainely and fully deliuering the matter and meane of our redemption to be the ONELY SACRIFICE of the body and bloud of Christ offered on the crosse to death he excludeth all other ransomes for our sins so maketh the death of Christs soule not onely to be superfluous to mans saluation but no meane of our redemption For in his iudgement t Zanchius de tribus Elohim part 1. li. 5. ca. 1 〈◊〉 10. Christ is the propitiatorie sacrifice for sinne not simply but as he died for vs with the shedding of his bloud and u Ibidem this ONELY SACRIFICE the shedding of Christes bloud vnto death God chose from euerlasting for the expiation of our sinnes and promised the same from the creation of the world and shadowed it with resemblances And touching the death of the soule if you teach as Zanchius doth you will presently finde it is open blasphemie to ascribe to Christ any death of the soule x Zanchâ—… tractat theologicâ—… de peccato originali ca. 4. thes 3 A triple death saith he God threatned to Adam for disobedience a spirituall death which was the separation of grace of the holy Ghost and of originall righteousnesse from the soule and body of Adam of which death in the Scriptures there is often mention made This death Adam died as soone as he did eate The second was a corporall death whereby the soule is seuered from the bodie To this Adam was presently vpon his eating made subiect though he did not straightwayes actually die The third is euerlasting death which is knowen to all of this death Adam was forthwith made guiltie This triple death was the punishment of his disobedience And vpon like occasion comparing the death of the soule and of the bodie he saith y Ibidem in ca. 2. epist. ad ephes vers 5. There is a triple death spirituall of the spirit or soule corporall knowen to all men and the third is that eternall death pertaining to bodie and soule wherewith all the wicked shall be punished in hell These all God threatned to Adam when he said what hower soeuer thou shalt eate c. thou shalt die the death For he straightway died in spirit or soule he incurred also the death of the bodie because he became mortall and was made guiltie of eternall death z Ibid. We haue rightly said death to bee the priuation of life and so of all the actions of life consisting in the separation of bodie and soule The like we must say of the spirituall life and death The spirituall life is a certaine spirituall and diuine force whereby we are mooued to spirituall and diuine actions by the presence of the holy Ghost dwelling in vs. The holy Ghost regenerating vs in this spirituall life is as it were the soule thereof And holy and spirituall thoughts holy desires holy actions both inward and outward are the operations of this spirituall life What then is the death of the spirit euen the priuation of the spirituall life and consequently of all spirituall and good actions in a man destitute of the presence of the holy Ghost which should quicken him comming from sinne and for sinne a Ibidem What strength hath a man dead in bodie to the actions of this life so neither can he that is dead in spirit or soule do any workes of the spirituall life Heere is a full and true description of the death of the spirit or soule of man which if you and your friends dare attribute to Christ then doth Zanchius fauour the death of Christs soule but if euery peece hereof applied to Christ be euident heresie and infidelitie then did Zanchius no way defend the death of Christes soule to be any part of our redemption and as for the second death he acknowledgeth none but that which is eternall and inflicted in hell on all the wicked Much more might be brought to like effect shewing the true and onely meane and matter of our redemption and reconciliation to be the only body and bloud of Christ yeelded vnto death for the ransome of our sinnes but I should make a new volume if I should stand thereon It may suffice in the iudgement of any reasonable man to refute the slaunderous
soules of the dead are receaued to corruption or destruction so called for that they are neuer satisfied but alwaies expect more euer since man was adiudged to death for sin and though in the great conceit of your owne skill you tell me that my not considering or not caring for the vse and manner of the Hebrew tongue causeth my mistaking as in these places so likewise in all or most of the rest and causeth mine error in this maine question Yet I hope I shall let the Reader see in the end that proud ignorance leadeth you so rashly to resolue as you doe both of the words and places in question and likewise of my positions Mercerâ—… a man of no meane skill in the hebrew tongue as appeareth by his paines therein taken in his additions to Pagnines Lexicon perused and published by Ceallere and Betrame two learned hebricians of our age obserueth that hoc nomine generaliter locasubterranea tendendo centrum versus appellantur the places vnder the earth euen to the middle or center thereof are generally called by this name Sheol as by another name of the same signification it is elswhere called Erets tachtith the lower or lowest earth Ezechiel 31 and often with an adiect sheôl tachtijah for explanations sake Proprie insernum dixeris ita vt locum significes Hinc cum verbo descendendi passiâ—… iungitur Properly you may call it hell or the place below for which cause it is euery where ioined with a Verb of descending Forstere in his hebrew Dictionary repeating what others thought of the sense of the word Sheol as that some tooke it for the pit others for the graue some for death it selfe some for the state of the dead plurimi vero inferum id est locum damnatorum and the most tooke it for hell euen the very place of the damned addeth in the end I am of this opinion that I thinke it importeth in the Scripture most often the place where the dead are vnder the earth so called for that it cannot be satisfied as Lactantius in certaine verses of his seemeth to render that Etymologie of the word Inferus insatiabiliter caâ—…a guttura pandit Hell opcneth wide his vnsatiable throat Et aliter verti commodè non potest quà m nomine infernus and cannot be otherwise conueniently translated then by the name of Infernus hell or the places below Deuter. 32 A fire is kindled in my wrath and hath burned to the nethermost hell So doth Ezechiel vse another word of the same signification ca. 31. Thou shalt be cast downe erets tachtith to the lower earth Pagnine vnknowen to no man that is learned for his labours in the hebrew tongue saith Sheôl sepulchrum infernus Gehenna Sheol signifieth the graue hell Gehenna Munstere Sheolidem quod sepulchrum fonea infernus Sheol is as much as the graue the pit and hell Auenarius Sheol sepulchrum item infernus id est locus inferior sub terra St de impijs dicitur significat perditionem Sheol is the graue also hell that is the lower place vnder the earth When it is spoken of the wicked it signifieth perdition Lauater Sheol non tantum significat locum damnatoruÌ„ sed etiam foueâ—…m vel sepulchrum Sheol doth not only signisie the place of the damned but also the pit or graue And before them all Lyra well learned in the Hebrew tongue if not a Iew borne sayd Accipitur infernus in Scriptura dupliciter infernus which is the Latin translation of Sheôl is taken two waâ—…es in the Scripture one for the pit where the Carcasses of the dead are put the other for the place whither the soules of the damned descend The trueth of their iudgements that Sheol signifieth the places vnder the earth where the bodies and soules of the dead are receaued will appeare by the very confession of the Rabbins themselues as well as by the direction of the Scriptures Touching the situation of Sheol Rabbi Abraham saith Sheol mâ—…kom aamakhephec bashamaijm shehu marom Sheol is a deepe place opposed to heauen which is on hie And againe Sheol is the lowest place of the whole earth opposite to heauen Rabbi Leui. Sheol hi mattah bemuchalat vehi markez Sheol is absolutely below is the center of the earth And that with them it importeth hell I meane Gehenna the place appointed to torment the soules of the wicked there can be no question Rabbi Iehosuas the sonne of Leui deliuering the names of hel that are occurrent in the Scripture saith there be seuen names of Gehenna and these they are Sheol Abadon destruction Bor Shachath the pit of perdition Bor Sheon the lake of ruine or roaring Tith haiauen the bottom of the myre Zal-maueth the shadow of death Erets tachtith the lower earth In the exposition of the 11 Psalme there are repeated as places of abode for the wicked in Gehenna Sheol Abadon Erets tachtith Dauid Kimchi commenting on these wordes of the 9. Psalme sinners shall be turned to Sheol saith Vuederash lishola hu gehinnam and in derash Sheol is Gehenna Elias the Leuite in his Caldaie Lexicon sayth Veiesh Sheol Methurgemim gehinnam Sheol with the Translators or Interpreters is Gehenna The Caldaie paraphrase expressing those wordes of Dauid The shape or beautie of the wicked shall consume in Sheol but God will redeeme my soule from the hand of Sheol thus rendereth them Their bodies shall wax olde in Gehenna but the Lord will redeeme my soule from gehenna Rabbi Salomon likewise expoundeth Sheol in that place by Gehinnam So in the sixth Psalme it is sayd Whosoeuer is not circumcised iored Gehinnam goeth to Gehenna as Esay threateneth Sheôl hath enlarged it selfe Rabbi Moses Hadarsan vpon the first of Genesis Gehenna is sayd to be deepe as it is in the ninth of the Prouerbs In the deepe of sheôl are the ghests of an harlot The Hebrew glosse vpon those wordes of God vttered by Moses A fire is kindled in my wrath and shall burne to the nethermost Sheol sayth In my wrath that is in the midst of Gehenna as it afterward followeth and shall burne to the lowest sheôl Rabbi Ioden expounding the wordes of Dauid Thou hast deliuered my soule from the nethermost Sheol sayth The way of Adulterers leadeth to the deepe of hell and therefore he sayth Thou hast deliuered my soule from the nethermost sheôl With whom Rabbi Selomo concordeth The way of Adulterers is to be in the deepe of hell and thence hast thou delinered me sayd Dauid when Nathan sayd vnto me The Lord also hath taken away thy sinne And lest we should doubt what they meane by Gehinnam Elias the Leuite sayth Kareü Rabbothenu mekom ônesh hareshaim achar motham gehinnam Our Rabbins call the place of punishment for the wicked after their deaths Gehenna Neither want these Iewes that auouch Sheol
is into hell Euthymius After death they shall descend to hell Lyra. Into the lower parts that is to Gehenna which is in the lower parts of the earth So Pellican They that seeke me to death shall fall on destruction and be rather thrust downe to hell Pomerane These things shew that all the endeuours of such as be enemies to godlinesse shal be frustrate and they shall descend to hell to euerlasting death Westhmerus followeth Pomerane word for word Bucer Dauid denounceth destruction to his enemies seeking his soâ—…le to death as that they should be cast downe to hell which he meaneth by the lower parts of the earth The verse ensuing fortelleth the reiection of their carcaâ—…es to be meat for Foxes Felinus insisteth on the very same words Mollerus They shall goe to the lowest parts of the earth that is they shall vtterly perish and descend to hell and their carcasses be cast abroad in the fields to be torne and deâ—…oured of wild Beasts Hauing now found by the circumstances of the Scriptures themselues as also by the iudgement of so many Iewish Rabbins Christian writers old and new expositors that your heaping vp of Hebrew phrases is but the vaine broching of your owne fansies and consequently that there is no cause for you to controle the full consent of so many learned Fathers as haue applied the Apostles wordes to Christs descent to the lower parts of the earth that is to hell which the Scriptures place vnder the earth Let vs see which of these two senses yours or mine best fitteth the apostles purpose Of yours I may safely say it hath no coherence with the wordes nor intent of the Apostle For these two verses the ninth and the tenth interposed wiâ—…h a parenthesis apparantly pertaine to the verifying of Dauids wordes cited immediately before in the eight verse that Christ ascending on high lead captiuitie captiue Before Christes ascending by way of relation the Apostle putteth Christes descending and because descending and ascending must haue contrary extreames from which and to which the motion is made therefore to the highest heauens aboue which Christ ascended Paul opposeth the lowest parts of the earth to which Christ first descended The end of his descending is comprised in Dauids wordes to leade Captiuitie Captiue which must be from the place of their chiefest strength euen as the end of his ascending after hee had led captiuitie Captiue was to giue gifts to men Now these two are the greatest blessings that Christ in this life bestoweth on his Church and in order follow one the other as Dauid first and after him the Apostle setteth them For we were first to be deliuered from our enemies and from the hands of all that hate vs I meane the enemies of our soules as Zacharie filled with the holy Ghost did prophesie we should before we could serue him without feare in holinesse and righteousnesse as wee ought to doe â—…ll the dayes of our life Deliuerance from the power of our enemies we had none but by Christs conquering them and leading them Captiue And full conquest ouer them Christ had none but by rising from the dead and treading vnder his feet all their power and strength not onely against himselfe but against all his And no place fitter to dissolue and breake all their force and might then in the chiefe castle of their kingdome which is hell seated in the lower parts of the earth So that this exposition of the learned and auncient Fathers which I before abundantly deliuered in their owne wordâ—…s is so farre from any iust challenge that it orderly and plainely lightneth and iustifieth the wordes of Dauid which the Apostle there taketh vpon him to illustrate Now in your exposition there is no such thing For first the graue is not in the lower parts of the earth nor opposite to the height of heauen whither Christ ascended according to the Apostles wordes Next Christ descending to his graue was rather lead captiue of death then shewed any conquest ouer death Thirdly before Christ many rose from the graue as well aunciently raised by Elias and Elizeus as then newly by Christ himselfe But this conquest which Dauid heere celebrateth was not ouer the graue onely but ouer hell Satan sinne death and all the power and feare of the enemie which Christ led Captiue leauing none vnconquered and made an open shew of them triumphing ouer them in his owne person as the same Apostle elsewhere deliuereth Therefore this place must stand for good till you or your friends bring better helpes to vnioynt it then your and their idle phrasiologie gainsaying the whole Church of Christ for your priuate nouelties and vanities Where you expound the text and say he descended to the lowest and ascended to the highest that he might fill all places with the presence of his manhood you speake both inconueniently and farre from the Apostles meaning You adde to it with his presence very deceitfully in a differing letter like the text and together with the text What censure this deserueth the godly doe know What censure deserue you that cannot speake three lines without an open iniurie or manifest folly You first confesse I expound the text and then you charge me with adding to the text as if any man could possibly expound any place of Scripture and adde nothing to the wordes Then were plaine reading of the text the best expounding of it and so should all exposition be superfluous and iniurious as most of your expositions are And who besides you so deepely doteth as to charge an expositour with saying somewhat besides the text but I adde it in a different letter like the text and together with the text I cannot expound any place of Scripture but I must insert the wordes of the text which I expound and ioyne them together with mine owne The text I cite not three lines before exactly as it lieth in the apostles writings and set by the side the quotation of the place Ephes. 4. with a direction to the wordes alleaged by me out of the apostle I then reason from the true meaning of the apostles wordes who saith that Christ first descended to the lower parts of the earth and ascending on high lead captiuitie captiue Whence did Christ lead captiuitie captiue but from the lower parts of the earth If that were the purpose of his descending the lower parts of the earth were the place whence he lead captiuitie euen all his our enemies captiue And so I made the conclusion of mine owne and not a fresh allegation as you absurdly mistake of the Apostles words Christ then descended into the lower parts of the earth and thence lead captiuitie captiue that he might fill all places with his presence Where if your eies were not more then dimme you might soone see I quoted no text as I did before but declared by mine owne wordes inserted what I gathered out of the
hath destroied death and purchased life for vs. And therefore after Chriâ—…s resurrection and ascension to aske who shall ascend to heauen to procure vs life or who shall descend into the deepe to destroy death for vs is to frustrate through infidelity that which Christ hath done for vs. If we confâ—…sse with our mouths and beleeue with our hâ—…arts that God hath raised vp Iesus from the dead to be Lord ouer all that is to giue life and saue from death whom he will we shal be saued this is the Apostles purpose As for merit-mongers of whom you say the Apostle speaketh these words it is an idle and drowsie conceit of yours These words doe no waies fitte presumers on their merits for they thinke they shall ascend to heauen by their workes they aske not who shall ascend and in the bottom of the sea what merits can you deuise or to what creatures there should Pharises seeke how to fulfill the law what bables be these to be wreathed into the Apostles words or who but you would place all the creatures of God either in heauen or in the bottom of the sea If you cannot write as a diuine speake yet as a man of common sense or vnderstanding And all these senses you say the Apostle may insinuate in this word I thinke as soone all as one but that the deepe in one and the same sentence should signifie the graue the bottom of the sea and the whole state of the dead is a flower of your field it groweth in no wise mans garden I may not omit to shew how you deale here againe with the Text. You alleage it â—…e descended into the deepe But he is cunningly added neither are these words meant of him Your eyes be not paires that perceiue not the difference betwixt a quotation and a conclusion gathered out of the Apostles words In the 220 page with which you cauill the letter b pointing to Rom. 10. in the margine is set after he and next before descended to the deepe So that any sober man might soone see I alleaged not this word he as out of the text but inferred it as the true meaning of the Apostle And whether I haue better reason to say these words are meant of Christ as all Interpreters new and olde doe than you haue to say they are meant of a Pharâ—…aicall Merit-monger that seeketh to learne of fishes in the deepe of the sea how to fulfill the Law let the Reader iudge now he hath heard vs both The like praâ—…se you vâ—… againe in the Psalme There is no word to exprâ—…sse beneath which you put into the text of your owne head Were there no word importing so much yet so long as the word added is expresly ratified by many places of Scripture as appeareth Esay 14. vers 9. and Prouerbs 15. vers 24. in plaine words that Sheol is beneath and the addition is in another letter different from the rest before and after your Mastership might haue taken it for an explication inserted and not for any part of the text cited But you neuer suppose that the Printer may sometimes mistake or mis-set my directions and that maketh you so fast to fome at mouth with my falsifying the word of God of purpose and for aduantage where you rather lie of purpose or for aduantage since I doe not offer there to build any thing on that word nor so much as mention it in my collection there which if I would haue done Scriptures enough besides this would warrant my assertion And what if you whet your teeth against the trueth and the word there of it selfe will beare this addition without any corruption is not your time well spent to play the Bedlom in this sort and in the end to betray your owne ignorance and malice The Septuagint translate the word 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 if I descend or go downe to Sheôl whom the Greeke Fathers follow The West Church kept the same word as is euident by all the Latine Fathers The Chaldaie paraphrase sayth Veêmuc lishjol If I depresse or humble my selfe downe to Sheol where the word is mac to be depressed downe or humbled low Ierom sayth If I lie downe in Sheól New Writers well skilled in the Hebrew tongue as Pellican Pomerane and others continue the word of descending and many that change it retaine the same sense as Vatablus Heâ—…raismus prosietiam descendam ad Ima it is an Hebrew phrase importing thus much If I doe descend to the parts beneath Westhmerus expoundeth it Si descendam in infima loca terrae If I descend to the lowest places of the earth Mollerus Si ettam descendam ad Ima If I should descend to the places beneath Dauid Kimchi obserueth that this word is not only to spread but withall it hath in it the force of lematta below beneath Augustâ—…us â—…stinianus translated the Arabick with the word of descending If all these haue falsified the word of God in so translating and expounding this place then haue I mistaken in following their iudgements but that I falsified of purpose or for an aduantage that is the meale of your mouth not vnlike the rest of your griest Howbeit it is eâ—…ident the Hebrew word hath in it as Kimchi noteth the signification of sub infra and in that respect importeth a bed where a man lieth downe in a lower position than he had before For which cause I might lawfully render the word as I did If I lie downe or lodge beneath in sheól Since Sheol by the Scriptures is a place whither a man must descend though indeed to preuent all challenge I was content to expresse the force of the word in another letter Our second and most principall reason is this If there be not one place of Scripture to proue that Christs soule was in hell then you ought to denie that opinion but you haue not indeed any one place that proueth it therefore it ought to be denied You shew your Logâ—… where little need is keepe it if you be wiâ—…e till it may stand you in more steed Euery Child knoweth or at least hath heard that faith must depend on the word of God Wherefore if it be no where written we meane not to beleeue it But if when the words be plaine you will wrest them with figures and phrases to another purpose then giue vs leaue if your proofes be not sound and good to tell you that our faith relieth on the singlenesse and plainnesse of the word of God so receaued and beleeued since Christ had a Church on earth And though you can make shewes with diuers acceptions and figuratiue senses of words yet that is no reason to reuerse the trueth written For giue me the like liberty without regard of faith and trueth and I can shift of any word whatsoeuer in the Scriptures yea the chiefest and mainest grounds of Religion I can elude with different
the perfection of their celestiall glory Otherwise against you and all that out of this place surmise that iust mens soules shall not be deliuered out of Sheol till the resurrection the sense and words of Dauid in this are pregnant enough For Dauid putting a difference in thâ—…se two verses betwixt himselfe and the wicked and that with an aduersatiue coniunction since the soules of the wicked are in Sheol presently vpon their deaths if Dauids must be there also what distinction doe his wordes make betweene himselfe and those others of whom he spake before Againe he saith God will deliuer his soule from Sheol ki cúm or quia when he shall receiue me or because he will receiue me Take which you will it is plaine by the Scriptures and by these very words of Dauid that so soonâ—… as God receiueth the soule of man it is deliuered from Sheol But hee receiueth the soules of his Saints instantly vpon their deaths they are therefore presently deliuered out of Sheol and stay not there by any force of Dauids wordes vntill the resurrection Lord Iesus sayd Steuen euen as he was stoned receiue my spirit The begger died saith the Gospell and was caried by the Angels into Abrahams bosome This day shalt thou be with mee in Paradise said Christ to the theefe He that beleeueth in him that sent me saith Christ 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 is already passed from death to life If the faithfull passe so soone to life they bee as soone deliuered from Sheol by Dauids owne confession against which I will heare neither you nor any man liuing Againe that Psalme sheweth it also where it is thus written My soule is filled with sorrowes and my liâ—…e draweth neere to Sheol by his life he meaneth his soule the proper cause and fountaine of life in him which also in â—…e first part of the sentence hee nameth By these rouing and licentious glozes builded on the sands of your owne saying you thinke you may prooue what you will and all shall be expresse Scripture if you say the word Life you will haue to be soule drawing neere to be abiding in The graue to be the generall condition of soules deceased and to warrant all this your selfe is the soothsayer By his life he meaneth his soule which also in the first part of the sentence hee nameth as the manner of phrase in the Psalme is in the second part to speake of the same things that are in the former Many verses in the Psalmes doe illustrate the selfe same generall with diuers parts adiuncts and consequents but that the words be of all one force or signification in euery such verse this is an other of your new found methodes which is nothing else but a meere confusion of all things For will you see with your manner of phrase as you finâ—…ly furbish it what consequents hang on these kind of collections This life of which Dauid speaketh continueth not in Sheol because it is vtterly exstinguished by Sheol ergo the soule likewise is mortall and wholy perisheth in Sheol for so doth the life mentioned by Dauid which you say is all one with the soule Againe if both these parts import one sense then the iust in Sheol are filled with sorrowes for so are the former wordes of Dauid And if that be true how much hath the spirit of God deceiued vs who bad S. Iohn write blessed are the dead which hereafter die in the Lord euen so saith the spirit for they rest from their labours But that was the spirit of trueth and therefore the spirit of error in you sucketh these absurdities out of the Psalmes by your misconstruction of them Indeede I denie not but life may signifie heere the whole person of man and so may nephesh the soule also very well and then Sheol and Hades signifie not peculiarly and distinctly the graue which is only for the car casse but the condition of the whole man after he hath no being in this world And per aduenture so it is vnderstood heere in thâ—…se places in which sense Sheol and Hades are farre from signifying hell yea or heauen either yea or onely and meerely the graue but it signisieth destruction out of this world and not being heere any more as aforetime to the whole person that is both to the bodie and to the soule The idle deuices of this wild-gooseracer who would spend either time or paines to tracke when he reeleth to and fro like a man pot-shotten with it may be and per aduenture it is so and closeth vp all in the end with a dangerous destruction which he maketh to be iust nothing Boyes meanely Catechised can soone conceiue that death or the graue bringeth with it an end of all earthly things from which the wicked are loth to depart as hauing no farder nor better hope after this life and therefore to them death is a destruction indeed that is a ceasing of all their pleasures and an encreasing of all their paines To the godly who put not their hearts to the things of this world but desire to bee dissolued and to bee with Christ and in comparison of his presence account all earthly things to be base and burdenous death is a gaine and no destruction because they renounced the loue of all these worldly thinges before hand and sought for the permanent citie whose founder is God Wherefore to them this bodie is a burden this life is a warefare and this world is a desert full of snares and pits Wherein they wander as pilgrimes and strangers If then to lay aside these troubles and trifles and to be freed from all labours and dangers and to come home to the countrcy and citie which God hath prouided for the faithfull be in any wise mans sense a destruction then haue you some reason to call the generall condition of death as well to the iust as to the wicked a destruction but if that thought and speech be void of all religion and reason then doe you houer in the midst betweene heauen and hell and huddle saluation and damnation in one generall condition or state as you call it and when you sce what inconuenience will follow thereof you make it nothing but a meere priuation or an end of things past And this you would applie as well to the person of Christ whose soule you say was in no Sheol but this as to al his members whose soules shall not be freed from this destruction and Sheol till the day of resurrection Did you speake of the nature of death in it selfe or as it taketh hold on the wicked I would allow the word destruction which if it be well vnderstood is more then a mâ—…re priuation but when you presume to peruert the Scriptures with peraduentures and to sow to them what sense you list as may best fit your monstrous fancies lâ—…t no man be offended if I often thinke it fit to reiect your
to fast then to marrie Now for these very points that none are in Paradise but only martvrs and that the soules euen of the Patriarks and Prophets and all other godlie Christians are apud inferos in places vnder the earth and so shal be till the fulnesse of the resurrection Tertullian vrgeth in his booke De anima and in this chapter the authority of his paraclet which was the founder of Montanus new prophesies Agnosce differentiam Ethnici fidelis in morte si pro Deo occumbas vt pâ—…racletus moâ—…et non in mollibus febribus in lectulis sed in an Acknowledge the difference of an Ethnicke and a beleeuer euen in their deaths if thou die for Gods cause as the Paraclet warneth not in casie agues and soft beddes but in Martyrdomes And that these were the very words of Montanus new prophesie may easily be perceaued by Tertullian himselfe who writing against all flight in persecution which booke was specially written against the Church by Ieroms owne confession citeth them as the words of the spirit to witte in the new prophesies of Montanus Spiritum si consulas c omnes pene ad martyriuns exhortatur non ad fugam vt illius commemâ—…ur publicaris inquit â—…onum libi est Qui enim non publicatur in hominibus publicatur in Domino Sic aâ—…bi Nolite in lectulis febribus mâ—…llibus optare exire sed in Martyrijs If thou take counsell of the spirit he exhorteth all very neere to Martyrdome not to flight as to remember you of that speach Art thou made a publike example saith he it is good for thee He that is not made a publike â—…xample amgoÌ„st men shal be made one with God And so in another place desire not to depart this life in beds easie agues but in Martyrdomes These words Tertullian alleageth as euidently written by the spirit which since they be no where found in any part of the new or old Testament disagree both in words matter from the stile truth of the sacred Scriptures they sauour of another spirit must of force be referred to the prophesies of Montanus who in this very point was condemned by the church of Christ against which as Ierom auoucheth Tertuilian wrote this book in fauor of Montanus heresie And so much also that learned obseruer Rhenanus affirmeth vpon this place Verba sunt Prophetiae Paracleti Montanici These are the words of the prophesie of Montanus spirit Your friends therefore who lent you their paines were not well aduised in excusing Tertullian in this matter from Montanisme since not onely the error of Montanus is heere defended but the verie words of his new reuelation are heere alleadged Also in that obiection of certaine Heretickes whom he confuteth not the true Christians as you misconceaue They argued thus as you doe In hoc Christus inferos adijt ne nos adiremus Christ therefore went to hell to the end we should neuer come there He answereth them that it is false that Christ went to inferos in that sense that is to hell For then what difference is there between the wicked heathen and the godly Christians if one and the same prison after death were for them both taking it for a thing generally graunted in the Church that it were a WICKED AND HERETICALL THING to thinke he went where the damned were that is into hell Ignorance maketh you not onely blind and bold but presumptuous and sawcie to acquite from heresie and condemne for heresie whom pleaseth you And therefore I must not thinke it strange to be chalenged by you for a wicked and hereticall opinion since you grosly belie the whole Church of Christ and dippe them in the same vate of wicked and heretical things with me You wilfully wrest and misconstrue Tertullians words smoothing him in a manifest error against the whole Church of Christ and roling them vp with wicked heresie that were the greatest lights of Christian religion next after the Apostles Tertullians resolutions in this very Chapter are plaine enough to him that is not more then blind Habes de Paradiso anobie libellum quo constituimus omnem animam apud inferos sequestrari in diem Domini Thou hast a book of ours written touching Paradise wherein we determine all soules to be kept sequestred apud inferos in infernall places till the day of the Lord. And in the sentence next before that which you cite he sayth with like confidence Habes regionem inferûm subterraneam credere illos cubito pellere qui satis superbè non putent animas fideliuÌ„ inferis dignas serui super DominuÌ„ Discipuli super MagistruÌ„ aspernati si forte in Abrahae sinu expectandae resurrectionis solatium carpere Thou hast to beleeue that the region of inferi is vnder the earth and to push them from their opinions who proudly enough will not thinke the soules of the faithfull to be fitte for infernall or Iower places seruants aboue their Lord and Scholers aboue their Masters in that they skorne perhaps to haue the comfort of expecting the resurrection in Abrahams bosome Heere Tertullian positiuely declareth that he taketh inferi for a place or Region vnder the earth and that such as thought not the soules of the faithfull fitte for that place till the resurrection did proudly presume to be aboue their Lord and Master and skorne Abrahams bosome where the rest of the Patriarks Prophets are kept as he dreameth and so shal be till the day of iudgement Now whose opinion I pray you was this that the soules of the faithfull after Christs resurrection went to Paradise and not to places vnder the earth was it not the maine confession of Christs Church Tertullian then purposely refuting that opinion what els doth he but traduce the generall persuasion of the faithfull in fauour of his new prophesie which reserued Paradise onely for Martyrs and in that respect abandoned all the soules of the godly dying in their beds to places vnder the earth there to be kept till Christes comming But examine the words which he reiecteth and see if they sauour of heresie or Christianity For thereby we shall best iudge whether they were Hereticks or Christians whom he there impugned His words are Sed in hoc inquiunt Christus inseros 〈◊〉 ne nos adiremus But to this â—…rd say they Christ went to inferi the places bâ—…low that we should not come thither If these wordes imply heresie then was Saint Austen a manifest hereticke for he affirmed as much in effect as this commeth vnto Ideo Christus peruenit vsâ—… ad infernum ne nos maneremus in inferno Therefore Christ came euen vnto hell that we should not remaine in hell Men that come thither abide there If therefore Christ freed vs by his descent thither from remaining there he freed vs from comming thither And Ambrose was likewise an
verie rules of Grammar expressed in euery Lexicon require necessarily that 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 euerie where vsed by Greek writers in verse and in prose after 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 and 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 as 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 and 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 and such like should be supplied with 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 or some such word importing a place or house before it can be excused from false Greek how then are you so ignorant or impudent choose which you will as to say that hades is the world of soules without limitation of place or state haue you forgotten what Eustathius saith of the very word it selfe 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 Hades is a darke place vnder the earth And Phauorinus 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 Hades is a Region without light Or what Lucian reporteth of all the people who were Grecians that persuaded by Homer Hesiode the rest of the Poets tooke Hades to be 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 a place vnder the earth deepe great and dark If the word then of it selfe import a place vnder the earth and that deepe and darke what trueth is there in your words or what force in your allegations which prooue nothing against any thing that I said nor for your new made world of soules without limitation of place or state The common Epithet of hades is hades pandocheus hades receauing all both good and bad And what then was hades therefore either not vnder the earth or not a place of darkenesse because all men good and bad after death by the Pagans opinion went to hades if hades withall your prophane writers saue once in a speciall conceit of Socrates were below in the earth and a dwelling in darknesse then doth the word it selfe beare in it a limitation of place below vnder the earth not aboue in heauen and a state in darkenesse not in light Against this speaketh not one of your authors whom heere you huddle most idlely not regarding what I admit or reiect That which I say they confesse with one consent as I haue elsewhere shewed if those testimonies were not sufficient you might haue ten times as many But to make short worke Clemens Alexandrinus shall let you see how peeuishly you impugne my assertion He alleageth out of Diphilus an auncient comicall Poet as followeth 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 In hades we resolue there are two waies on for the iust the other for the wicked Howbeit the earth doth couer them both Your selfe is a witnesse against your selfe that to this place Hades come not the wicked onely but the noblest and best also Now where this place was in their opinion to which all come after death if you doubt Homer telleth you it was 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 In the house of hades vnder the dennes or darkenesse of the earth Theognis saith in like words 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 They goe to the house of hades vnder the dennes or closets of the earth Mimnermus saith 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 He goeth to hades vnder the earth Euripides 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 Vnder the earth to hades there being Sophocles 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 They come to the closets of the God below Aristophanes 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 I will goe with speed to hades below So that your great Masters of the Greeke tongue if euer you saw them or read thē exactly resolue against you that your hades pandocheus whither all goe both good and bad is vnder the earth and so can no way be proportioned to heauen or paradise which are farre aboue the starres of heauen and are habitations of light and blisse where your hades of the blessed in the opinion of Pagans and Christians was a place of darkenesse though mixed with ease and comfort as they supposed And touching the Latin Inferi of which you seeme to make such account by pretence of Ciceroes words but without all cause I replie with the words of Lactantius whom the Christians called their Cicero Nihil terra inferius humilius nisi mors inferi Nothing is lower and baser then the earth but death and inferi And because Hen Iac is become of late so deuoute a Patrone of Ciceroes that he may not suffer his Paganish errors to be reprooued and is angrie that any man taketh his beedleship from him let him read but the next chapter of Lactantius against Cicero by name and he shall see what honour is to be yeelded to heathen Idolaters against the trueth Homer describeth Tartarus to be so much beneath hades as heauen is from the earth What if Hades or hell be exceeding deepe is that a proofe that the top thereof is no part of Hades because the bottome is farre beneath it Are not the parts of heauen infinitely one aboue another and yet all are heauen In my fathers house saith our Sauiour are many mansions and yet they all are but one house Though then the Poet faine that Hades hath in it deepe pits yet all is contained in the generall name of Hades specially since both Pagans and Christians confesse that men are punished in Hades and not vnder Hades Iustine the Martyr alleageth out of Philemon 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 There is iudgement in Hades Theodoretus saith of Plato 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 Many times hee affirmeth places of punishment in Hades Cydonius saith generally 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 that there is vengeance in Hades for offences heere committed not onely the consent of all wise men but the equitie of Gods iustice approoueth this opinion The Gospell calleth Hades a place of torments Your selfe all this while haue maintained Hades to be a place as well of rest as of punishment that is of both at least And would you now with a Poeticall fiction or comparison strike out all that you and others haue said and appoint punishments not in but vnder Hades Poets haue their speciall fansies of Tartarus and therein agree not one with another Hesiode saith 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 The dungeon of Tartarus is so farre vnder the earth as heauen is aboue the earth Virgil saith Tartarus ipse bis patet in praeceps tantum Tartarus is twice as deepe as heauen is high And though Homer were blind yet he neuer intended to make Tartarus no part but the lowest parte of Hades And therefore he placed it deepe vnder the higher hades where dead bodies are which Hesiode called the earth For Hades is common as well to the bodies buried as to the soules receiued vnder the earth And therfore your citing Sophocles and Aeschylus vsing Hades for the graue where our bodies rest is an answere to that which you bring out of Homer and an heaping vp of matter no way pertinent to your purpose For thinke you that the graue hath no limitation of place why then are you so copious in things not doubted wholy
the Gentiles neuer vsed that word which the heathen at that time did not vnderstand but where occasion so required they retained the word hades and applied it to the place of torment and to the ruler thereof which things were not strange to the Gentiles Since then the Euangelist and Apostles neuer ment to confirme or continue the erroneous fansies of the Pagans and yet vsed their words it is euident they vnderstood so much by these wordes as was not repugnant to the Christian faith Now hades with the Pagans was a place vnder the earth where the wicked after this life were punished This was agreeable to the trueth and for that cause the Apostles retained that sense and force of the word That the soules of the iust were also kept vnder the earth in rest and ease this was the error of the heathen though both Iewes and Christians lighted afterwardes on that fansie This the Apostles doe not ratifie in vsing the word hades for that it was not consonant to the grounds of true religion from which they neuer ment to depart by vsing any wordes accustomed among the heathen And as the Gentiles before they beleeued vsed hades for the chiefe ruler of those Infernall places so doth Saint Iohn not refuse to attribute that name to the diuell in his Reuelation And so without your conceits or discourses we haue shortly and plainely the cause and course why and how the Canonicall writers concurred with the Grecians in vsing the word hades and yet corrected their error Howbeit I thinke the Apostles had chiefe respect to the Septuagint who translating the Hebrew into Greeke then rife in many learned mens handes and expressing there the sense of Sheôl vsed Hades for the death of the bodie in the graue and for the death of the soule in hell after whose example the sacred writers of the new Testament speaking of the wicked or ioyning death with hades note what hades is besides the death of the bodie which they intend by Thanatos And therefore though Hades in the old Testament import the places of death for bodie and soule I meane the graue and hell yet throughout the new Testament that word being alwayes opposed to heauen applied to the wicked or connexed with other wordes that signifie the death of the bodie it must of force be taken for the power and place that killeth the soules of all men approching it except onely Christs to whom all powers and principalities in heauen and earth and hell were and are submitted and subiected Hitherto wee haue tried the nature and vse of Hades and haue found it to bee not properly hell as you auouch no not when it is applied to soules of men deceased And therefore also that it cannot be so vnderstood in Acts 2.27 where it is applied to Christs soule after he was dead which yet is the onely place you haue to pretend Hitherto you haue prated what pleased you and proued nothing and notwithstanding your vaine euasions meere priuations inuincible conditions and plaine visible contradictions Hades is found by the full consent of Christian and heathen writers to bee a place vnder the earth and in darkenesse where the soules of the dead adiudged to that place were and are detained vnder the Dominion of the Diuell though the Pagans in their wandering from their trueth imagined him to be a God and dreampt of earthly pleasures there to comfort their deiected spirits against the terror of death And since Christs soule was not left in hades after death as appeareth Acts 2.31 what haue you or any man liuing to say why Christs descent to Hades that is as the Gospell expoundeth this word to the place of torment of which it was impossible for him to be held or to bee therewith touched should not bee iustly grounded on this place wee may simply take hades for the inuisible state or place of the deceased If for the place then for heauen where you say Christes soule was after death And would Christ so greatly reioice that his soule should not be left in heauen Otherwise we may take it simply for deaths force and power supplying also the same wordes eis ton topon or tên chôran hadou in that place where the power and strength of death preuaileth and holdeth the deceased soules from their bodies You haue so many senses that you haue neuer a good First you tooke hades for a state or place and then you supplied it as indeed you must with topon or choran a place or region And so your sense went round like a wheele Thou wilt not leaue my soule in the place of place or state which is not seene that is not in heauen Now you renew your strength to take better hold and saie Thou wilt not leaue my soule to the place of deaths power Where we must note that heauen for there was Christes soule as you grant is by you appointed to be the place of deaths power and so you haue brought vs the strength and power of death and darknesse preuailing in heauen and euen on Christes soule This is the world of the dead implying nothing else but an estate opposite to our visible state in this world Are the places or states of heauen and hell nothing but an opposition to our visible estate in this world There are bodies both in heauen and in hell by the consent of the best Diuines new and old How then is their state opposite to our visible state Moses and Elias were seene talking with Christ in the mount What place will you appoint for them since they were visible And if the world of the dead be nothing else but an estate opposite to our visible estate then Christ after his resurrection relapsed often to hades to the world of the dead for he was inuisible to all men as long as he staied on earth but when and where he was pleased to shew himselfe And if that be true which you your selfe doe say that l in very deed hades hath properly but a priuatiue sense and not any thing positiue in it then your additions of place and region be repugnant to the nature of hades except you can bring vs a place and region of meere priuations in which is nothing positiue and consequently your varieties and expositions of hades be meere illusions and haue nothing in them but lies and mockeries For hades is a place below in the earth and darke by condition as wherein nothing is seene as both Christians and Pagans affirme Hades therefore is no mecre priuation If the soule of Christ then after death were in hades it was not at the same time in heauen for heauen is opposite throughout the Scriptures to hades and your owne common and inuisible place of both is a priuate and palpable errour of your owne Last of all we may take Hades heere by a prosopopaea conceauing it to be as it were some person of vnresistable power taking away
may doe well to leaue this outfacing Scriptures and Fathers it may seeme a shift for a time but it will end with your shame By the whole text it is euident Peter had no reason nor purpose to speake to the Iewes of Christes soule being in hell If you may be iudge Peter shall say nothing but what hitteth your hand right It is more then plain by the whole purport of Peters speech that he ment to prooue Christ to be raised vp as Lord of all his enemies and Sauiour of all that obey him To rise simply from death was not sufficient to shew the eternitie and soueraigntie of Christs kingdome but he must be raised as the only Lord that should sit on Dauids throne and haue all things in heauen earth and hell subiected vnto him From our enemies if hee could not deliuer vs he could be no Sauiour of ours he must therefore tread them all vnder his feete when he rose from death before we could hope to be freed from them by his force And to this end Peter expresly maketh mention that God scattered the sorrowes of death and hell before him when he raised him vp that all the faithfull might be assured as Christ conquered and destroied the diuell in his owne person when he rose from the graue so he could and would doe the like for all his members by freeing them from the power of Hades and conforming them to his death and resurrection This God had promised to his people by his Prophet saying I will redeeme them from the hand of hell I will deliuer them from death O death I will be thy death O hell I will be thy destruction Repentance is hid from mine eies This Dauid foretold the Messias should performe in that his soule should not be forsaken that is left destitute of power or honour no not in hell Of this deliuerance from their enemies and from the handes of all that hated them spake the Prophets that were from the beginning of the worlde This was the oath that God sware to Abraham that they being deliuered out of the handes of their enimies should serue him without feare of sinne death or hell This the Iewes beleeued and expected in the Messias and therefore neither were they I meane the elect among them so ignorant vnbeleeuing and stubborne as you pretend three thousand being conuerted with this one Sermon neither was this so strange and vncouth a thing as you imagine being so often promised and prophesied vnto them Neither did Peter intend onely Christes resurrection as you suppose his chiefe scope being to shew them the strength and height of Christs heauenly kingdome And where you flourish that this was not subiect to sense and without all example of the like in the whole law and namely no figure foreshewing any such thing these be obiections meeter for perfidious Iewes then for those that would seeme to be beleeuers How many points of faith are not subiect to sense Christes sitting at the right hande of God in glorie will you not beleeue because it is not subiect to sense and without an example of the like and no figure foreshadowing any such matter Of Christes ascending to heauen and his returne to iudge the quicke and the dead haue you any examples or figures in the whole law and yet it is no such hard matter to proportion our deliuerance from hell and Satan to the bondage of Israell in Egypt and the ouerwhelming of Pharoh and all his host in the bottom of the redde sea The like might be said of Sampsons death who being weake and bound slew all his enemies of Dauid and Goliah of Daniell in the Lyons denne without harme of Ionas lying in the Whales bellie and such like which though in all things they match not Christs conquest ouer Satan and the destruction of him and his kingdome as no figures can do yet are they resemblances of that which you so much dissemble Howbeit as I said of Christes birth buriall descending to Hades rising ascending sitting in heauen and comming to iudge the law did not yeeld any expresse and visible figures as it did of his death and sacrifice We haue seene that Hades hath no such meaning in the Acts which yet is the only place whereon you build This were sufficient to end this argument but yet it shall be good to trie whether any where hades properly signifieth hell Verily it doth so signifie no where at all in the Scriptures Yet I graunt it is and ought to be translated hell in two places Matth. 16. v. 18. Luk. 16. v. 23. not that the word it selfe doth necessarily signifie hell but because the circumstances heere doe require that meaning as the fittest and best for these particular purposes We haue seene you beate your braines about Hades to make it any thing rather then tha tindeed it is both by the generall opinion of all Pagan Poets and by the constant assertion of all the Greeke Fathers We haue also seene you turne winde your selfe you know not whither sometimes to haue it the place for soules departed this world sometimes the state of such soules sometimes the power of death and sometimes the priuation of this life and so to crosse and controle your owne conceits that you could not tell where to set foote without falling Now as he that is blinde maketh no difference betwixt day and night no more doth your wilfull yet witlesse imagination perceaue any distance betwixt trueth and falshood And hauing held your owne so well that no shifting or shuffling can make you ashamed you will now proceed to a farder triall of other texts of Scriptures to see whether you can outface them with your fansies and figures as you haue done them that be already ouerpast I make no doubt but if you may sit sole Iudge in your owne cause you will quickly pronounce for your selfe but if you must prooue as well as pronounce you will make as many errors in your proceedings as there be holes in a sieue Howbeit you grant that in two places of the new Testament Hades is and ought to be translated hell not for that the word of it self doth so necessarily signifie but because the circumstances require that meaning Which is as much as if you said there are two places in the new Testament where hades is must be taken for hel neither can you with all your sleights shifts auoid the same the circumstances of the text so euidently demonstrate the Euangelists tooke hades for hell This by your leaue is some preiudice to your cause and a bridle to your boldnesse that the holy Ghost doth twice in the Gospels by your owne confession vse hades for hell and why he doth not vse it in that sense in other places there is no impediment but your proud will and waste wordes Saint Luke is so cleere as no exception can be taken to it that Hades is the
recenseri insernum siue gehennam mortem peccatum legem In the meane while thou must see our enemies heere numbred in order hell or gehenna death sinne and the law Christ hath gotten the victory ouer all these and the fruit of that victory redoundeth to vs. Bullinger The Apostle declareth that the victory ouer sinne death and hell is gotten by the might and merits not of the saints but of Christ to whom the saints must yeeld all glory praise and thanks And this explanation hath very excellent degrees First â—… hell to wit the excrlasting punishment whereby the dead are condemned to the second death the second is sinne which is the force of death and hell For by sinne came death The third is the law the strength of sinne The law being then taken away the force of sinne decaieth sinne being abolished the power of death ceaseth death being disarmed hell is ouerthrowen Hyperius If death shall then haue no more rule it followeth that neither hell shall preuaile against the godly For this must be vnderstood of them since the wicked shall not be deliuered from the power of hell In these words ô death where is thy sting ô hell where is thy victory either God as conquerer or the saints as giuing the praise of the conquest to God in a sort reproch death and hell with the losse of their power and strength And very aptly is death put first and then hell For men die before they be cast into hell in which the wicked tast the second or eternall death Moe might be brought but with wise men there can be no question that the Saints at the last day being then fully freed from all their enemies may giue thanks to God for the victory purchased by Christ against them all hell and Satan not excepted Also we are to note that the Apostle heere plainely alludeth to that of Hoseah O Sheol o kingdome of death I wil be thy destruction not ô hell The Prophet speaketh this to comfort Israel in their captiuity against their continuall destruction and raizings out of this world You will soone brest other men that will beard the Apostle in this matter so boldly as you doe Indeed you and some others thinke it a glory to take part with the Iewes contradicting all that the Euangelists Apostles alleage out of the law and the Prophets touching Christ and his kingdome and you vouchsafe to yeeld to the holy Ghost speaking in them no more skill or vnderstanding of the old Testament but to allude to it and as it were to play with it when the true literall sense of most places as you thinke is farre from that which they intend But this Iudaizing whiles you would seeme more then others to smatch of a little Hebrew I for my part detest and professe to the world I take that euery where to be the true and direct meaning of Moses and the Prophets which Christ and his Apostles collect from their words And therefore Ierom saith of this very place as I say of all others That which the Apostle referreth to the resurrection of the Lord nos aliter interpretari nec possumui nec audemus we neither can nor dare interprete otherwise Yea so well learned you are in the circumstances of the Prophets speach that you pronounce The Prophet speaketh this to comfort Israel in their captiuity shewing that now the Lord would stay his iudgment that way and death should now destroy them no more Whereas Israel was then in no captiuity as appeareth by the 16 verse of the same chapter Samaria shal be desolute And God had no meaning to tell the people he would now stay his hand and they should be destroied no more because in the two next verses he threatneth They should be spoiled dried and desolate they should fall by the sword their infants should be dashed in pieces and their women with child should be ripâ—… Wherefore except you will haue the holy Ghost to speake contradictions as your manner is you must acknowledge that amidst the fearefull troubles destructions and desolations then and afore denounced by the Prophet against the whole kingdome of Israel God doth comfort his elect amongst them that whatsoeuer became of their bodies in this affliction approching he had his time when he would vtterly destroy the power of all their enemies not onely freeing them by death from tyrants and persecutors but sauing them from death and hell by his annointed Messias who should be a death to death and a destruction to hell And as this was the greatest comfort and onely hope that Gods children in their miseries could expect or desire so the Apostle keepeth right the Prophets meaning and sheweth the time when all this shal be performed that is when all teares shal be wiped from the eies of Gods elect and all their enemies sinne death and hell troden vnder their feete In this comfort and promise as hell was the chiefest enemy so of all others that must be conteined within the limits of Gods assurance and their deliuerance In vaine are all other promises of grace whiles that enemy standeth vnuanquished And therefore as we most needed so God most promised and Christ most performed the destruction of hell aboue and afore the death of the body which you so much talke of and from which you giue to the reprobate a resurrection as well as to the godly which is but a cold comfort to him that duely considereth it Next we come to the Reuelation First I haue the keyes of Hades that is of destruction or of the kingdome of death and of death Or we may take them as two words for oâ—… and the same thing That is both of them for death What shew of reason haue you to bring in here Christs power ouer the damned soules in hell because there is mention else where of the key of hell therefore the key of Hades here is the same What colour of reason is there in this Euen so much as you can not resist For if it be certaine which the Scripture confirmeth that Christ hath the keyes of both that is as well of hell as of death and gate them both by submitting himselfe to death And Hades in the new Testament is taken for hell as hitherto we haue seene and euen with Saint Iohn the writer of this Reuelation it is a different thing from death what can Hades be here but hell That Christ by his obedience vnto death had all power in heauen and earth and hell giuen him the Apostle is very plaine Christ became obedient to the death euen the death of the Crosse. Wherefore or for which cause God highly exalted him and gaue him a Name aboue euery name that at the name of Iesus euery knee of those in heauen on earth and vnder the earth should bow and euery tongue confesse that Iesus is the Lord. As he himselfe also witnessed when he said
Hades as is mentioned in the thirteenth verse If you like not this shew vs a reason why the earth is here ouerskipt in which are the most of the dead bodies both of good bad vnlesse it were because no doubt was of the earth in refunding her dead and we will make you a playner explication of these parts which now seeme somewhat doubtfull Howbeit death and Hades cannot stand for one and the selfe same thing as you would haue them since the holy Ghost applieth the plurall number to them and maketh them places not phrases to containe the dead in them by saying death and Hades gaue vp the dead which were in them Words haue no dead in them but places haue which because S. Iohn maketh to bee plurall death and Hades cannot here be taken for one thing Neither were those writers whom you reiect so inconsiderate as not easily to wipe away the force of your faint reasons Bede vpon these words the Sea death and hell gaue vp their dead saith Iohn signifieth the bodies shal be gathered from the earth and their soules from their seuerall places The good vnder the name of death which suffered onelie the dissolution of their bodies and no farder punishment the euill he designeth by the name of hell Andreas Caesariensis taketh the Sea for the earth as Bede doth either because they thought the earth should then be plaine like the sea as Sibylla prophesied Equâ—…ntur campis montes hills and vales shall then be all euen or because heauen and earth were before said to be fled away from his face that sate on the throne and their place no more to be found or for that at the mutation of the world the earth shall melt and burne all ouer like a sea of fire and of the rest he saith Death is the separation of the soule from the body Hades is a place to vs vnseene that is darke and vnknowen which receaueth the dead soules departing hence And those soules are dead which cary with them dead works For the soules of the iust as the wise man saith are in the hands of God and no torment shall touch them Dead soules I read with the interpreter and not our soules as the Printer in Greeke hath mistaken the word 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 for 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 not onely because the interpreter had first the copie before him and tooke more care to render it right then the Printer but also for that the Author in the very next words declareth what he ment by dead soules before of which there is no mention precedent if that word be not kept where the translator putteth it Saint Austen taketh the sea for this world and shewing how those that liue on earth may be called dead euen by warrant of holy Scripture and this life be counted no better then a death addeth Nec frustra fortasse non satis fuit vt diceret mors aut infernus sed vtrumque dictum est Neither happily without cause was it not enough to say death or hell but both are named death for the good who might suffer onely death and not also hell and hell for the wicked which are punished in hell And of the next words death and hell were cast into the lake of fire he saith His nominibus significans Diabolum quoniam mortis est author infernarum poenarum vniuersamque simul Daemonum societatem By these names Saint Iohn signifieth the diuell because he is the Author or first occasioner of death and hell-paines withall the whole multitude of diuels Primasius as he was S. Austens scholar so doth he writing vpon the reuelation retaine S. Austens sense and sentences as they are alleaged next before Aretas writing on the same words S. Iohn saith he meaneth those that haue done things worthy of this punishment 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 making vp the people of the second death Death and hades gaue vp their dead By death saith Haymo we may simply vnderstand the death of the flesh by hell the places of darkensse Death and hades that is all the members of the Diuell with their head were cast into the lake of fire that is into the deepe damnation of hell And rightly are all the reprobate figured by hell either because abiding there they make but one house with hell in which they abide or els for that imitating the worâ—…s of the Diuell they are neuer satisfied with euill as hell neuer saith it sufficeth The new writers doe not dissent if it were worth the time to repeat manie of them Bullinger Death and hell were cast into the lake of fire Hades hell heere doth signifie not the place of punishment but those that are or were in hell whose soules were hitherto deteined in hell or such as are appointed for hell Death also signifieth those that are dead in sinne and which from a spirituall and temporall death directly passe to eternall death Aretas and Primasius are of the same opinion with vs. Chytreus Death shall restore all the bodies slaine by him and hell shall refund the soules of the wicked to be ioined to their bodies Hades in Greeke is deriued from 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 that is not to see or a place lacking light which in the 22 of Matthew is called vtter darkenesse where the wicked depriued of the sight light comfort and life of God not onely suffer perpetuall night or darknesse but great and vnspeakeable paines and torments of soule and body The Latines call it infernus because the place of the damned is thought to be somewhere in the earth beneath vs as it is said in the 16 of Numbers they descended aliue to hell and the earth couered them Thus haue we for your pleasure runne ouer all the places of the new Testament where hades is vsed and for ought we see or you say find the plaine and perpetuall vse of hades to signifie hell and not any such priuations destructions conditions and dominions of bodily death as you dreame of And as for the circumstances of the places they all concurre exactly and directly with this signification of hades which I obserue notwithstanding your Cabbinet of conceits that hades shall designe you know not what where nor when The reasons of my obseruations are manifest For where throughout the old Testament with the Septuagint hades doth alwaies import the pit for dead bodies or soules that is the graue common to good and bad or hell peculiar to the soules of the reprobate with the consequents of either and the writers of the new purposely distinguish 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 death from hades and mention death expressely that is by name or by description in euery of those places where hades is found in the new Testament saue in Christs threatning of Capernaum in which it is opposed to heauen as fardest distant from it and most repugnant to
it It is a plaine true rule in mine opinion that the Euangelists and Apostles euery where by Hades intended hell and none of your wandring or stragling fansies Besides the Greeke Fathers with one consent vse Hades after the direction of the Canonicall writers for a place of darknesse vnder the earth prouided to receaue and detaine the Soules of men And in this sense neither the Scriptures nor the Fathers departed much from the auncient and true vse of the word amongst heathen and prophane Authors sauing that the Pagans made it common to the Soules of iust and vniust which the Scriptures neuer doe and the Fathers vtterly refuse after Christs Resurrection whatsoeuer they doe before Since then Hades by the manifest exposition of Saint Luke in his Gospell is the place of torment where the wicked after death are punished and the same Euangelist expresseth Dauids meaning to be this that Christs Soule after death was not left or forsaken in Hades what cause or reason hath any man to denie that Christ dying descended to hell there to spoyle powers and principalities and thence to leade Captiuitie Captiue that as he ascended to the highest heauens there to sit superiour to all the Elect Angels so he first descended to the bottomlesse deepe there to subiect the Reprobate Angels vnto his humane nature and to dissolue the power and sorrowes of hell of which it was impossible he should be held Here we must consider a maine obiection of yours euen those words of our common Creed he descended into hell originally it is he descended into Hades and in truth this is all you haue to alleadge for your opinion but I answere two waies first admitting then denying the Authoritie of these words in our common Creede You haue seene by this time what I haue to alleadge for that which I defend may besafely conceiued of the Creed The words themselues he descended to Hades haue euident warrant in the holy Scriptures and Peter exactly concludeth out of Dauids words that Christs Soule was not left in Hades What Hades is with S. Luke the writer of the Acts we likewise haue seene It is euen the place where the wicked are tormented after death Put these together and tell me what they want of Christes descending into hell before he rose from the dead The words in English he descended into hell are confirmed by the publike authoritie of this Realme as well in the Booke of common praier as in the Articles of Religion agreed on by the Conuocation and ratified by Act of Parliament So that all your euasions elusions of the priuation condition and dominion of death to be ment thereby are vtterly reiected and condemned by generall and full consent of Prince Pastours people within this Realme and Christs descent to hell after death hath beene constantly and continually professed and beleeued in the Church of England euer since the Gospell was here established What you haue said against it I leaue to the Readers wise and indifferent iudgement who wil easily tell you you must bring better sluffe then either phrases or fansies before the common Creede may be thus reiected and despised You enioyne vs three Rules to be exactly and precisely kept in the expounding of these words Namely 1. distinction of Matter 2. consequence of order 3. proprietie of words Might not those godly men thinke you misse in some such circumstances although the Scripture cannot The first compilers of the Creede meaning shortly orderly and plainly to deliuer the summe of the Christian faith as touching the three persons in Trinitie and the chiefest blessings which God bestoweth on his Church in this life and the next by Iesus Christ our Lord might not with any discretion in so briefe and compendious assume of Christian Religon proposed to the simple and vulgar sort of all ages and sexes vse either any needlesse repetition disordered confusion or obscure inuolution of things requisite to our Saluation To these Rules agree all that haue expounded the Creede in the Church of Christ to this very day saue your selfe and such as haue opened you the gap to these innouations And these Rules allowed do cleane cast your exposition out of doores For where it is most plainly said that Christ died and was buried which words no plow-man woman nor child of reasonable yeeres can mistake you after Christs buriall come in with a darke and figuratiue phrase of descending to Hades which in effect you confesse is no more but what was said before in knowen and open speech that Christ died And this obscure and strange circumlocution of death you will haue to be an Article of your faith as if euery Christian creature were bound vpon danger of his saluation to vnderstand what Sheol or Hades doth signifie in the Greeke and Hebrew Tongues which is a position meete for such a Diuine as you are Your exposition therefore is repugnant to all three Rules For it is a superfluous vnorderly enigmaticall iteration of that which was before expressed in due place with as plaine and easie wordes as any might be spoken by the tongue of man Now with what Arguments you or any man liuing Hu. Bro. not excepted can prooue that Hebrew or Greeke phrases are Articles of Religion and must be conceaued and beleeued of all men before they can be saued as yet I doe not vnderstand And this is the miserie of your cause that not onely you haue no word in Latine English nor in any tongue else answerable to your Sheol or Hades but when you come to lay open your owne phrases the exposition is more ridiculous then the Translation For by Christs descending to Hades which you call the power dominion and kingdome of death you meane no more but that Christs Soule seuered from his Body went to heauen to the rest of the blessed Soules there And here I report me to him that will vouchsafe to read your 196. 197. pages whether you haue any thing there but store of phrases extending intending enlarging amplifying the name power and dominion of death which when all is done and said amounteth to this much that Christes soule seuered by death from his body submitted it selfe to the base and low condition of the dead by taking the paines to goe to heauen to the rest of the Saints there This is all in effect that your Periphrasis and Emphasis moriendi doe containe and the great fall or whole casting downe of Christes person which you so Rhetorically set out with termes of the broadest and longest size hath nothing in it but only this that his soule after death which dissolued his person ascended to the societie of the blessed soules in heauen The rest is your emphaticall and paraphrasticall vanitie swelling with wordes and shrinking in sense which needeth none other refutation but sober obseruation that when two sides are spent nothing is said but you are where you began For would you not varie so many phrases
as you doe tending all to expresse one thing but seeke a little to shew vs what matter is contained in them you should soone see what labour you haue lost in this Carrecke of words which you haue newly brought vs home Your meere and simple death which you say is nothing els but the going asunder of the soule from the body hath of necessitie thus much in it It is the separation of the soule from the body which is the cause of life in the body It is the dissolution of the person which consisteth of body and soule It is the priuation of life which endeth with the departing of the soule It is the continuing of death since possibly there is no regresse from the priuation to the habite without the mightie hand of God working aboue nature For the soule departing neuer returneth till God commaund by whose word heauen and earth were made What now after death becommeth of both parts of man is no hard matter to conceaue Salomon saith Dust meaning flesh first made of dust returneth to earth as it was and the spirit to God that gaue it by him to be disposed and adiudged to ioy or paine as pleaseth him The body then goeth to corruption the soule receaueth iudgement where it shall remaine in hell or heauen till the bodie be restored againe which shall be at the last day Descending to hades after death cannot be verified of the whole person of man but in respect of the parts Referred to the body it is as much as buried and laide in the place where it shall putrifie and returne to dust Applied to the soule it must signifie the place to which the soule is caried which I say must be vnder earth since heauen is neuer called by that name nor expressed by that word either in the Scriptures or in any other sacred or prophane writers The power and dominion of death which you so much speake of is nothing else but Gods ordinance that from death there is no returne to life till hee appoint If then there be no dominion nor kingdome of death preuailing or ruling in heauen where the soules of the Saints are without their bodies then Christ in ascending to heauen descended not to Hades Againe with what trueth can you auouch Christes soule came vnder the full power and dominion of death since death had no power ouer the bodie or soule of Christ longer or farder then he himselfe would permit and his soule free from all bands and paines of death destroied the dominion and kingdome of death to which it was alwaies superiour and neuer subiect but onely that he might shew himselfe with greater power to be conquerer of death rather in rising from the dead then in declining the force of death as if he were not able after death and in death to dissolue the dominion and power of death Wherefore your exaggerating the power and dominion of death OVER THE SOVLE of Christ and that IN HEAVEN whither you graunt Christes soule went after death is not onely a vaine and idle flourish but a poisoned and pestilent doctrine if you take not heed to it since no power of death but Christes will to shew himselfe Lord of life and death either seuered his soule from his bodie or bestowed his soule in any place after death or detained him in the condition of death but he was free to die when he would and rise from death when he would which euerteth all power and dominion of death ouer him how much soeuer in wastefull wordes you auouch the contrarie Touching the proprietie of wordes that you say is as true as the rest For Hades hath no such natiue and proper sense as you talke of but exactly and directly when it is referred to a place and not to a person signifieth a place of darknesse where nothing can be seene as with one consent Heathen and Christian writers acknowledge And the word descending after death which you must applie to the soule ascending to heauen you childishly change into the fall of the person from lise to death or inconstantly varie you know not how to Christes submission when he died or his abasement by lying held and subdued so long time in death Where againe you incurre the same sands that you did before in affirming Christ was held and subdued of death for the time which is plainly false doctrine since he would abide that time in death least any should thinke him not truely dead but was neuer vnder the power and dominion of death And as for lying held in death that phrase is strangely referred to the soule of Christ which ascended to the third heauen with more honour and ioy then it receaued in this life heere on earth What Ruffine saith is not much to be regarded if we beleeue S. Ierom neither was Ruffines faith sound nor his authoritie any thing in the Church and yet were he woorth the respecting he maketh more against you then for you For first these wordes are not vsed as an exposition of Christs descent to Hades but Ruffine saith Diuina natura in mortem per carnem descendit non vt lege mortalium detinerâ—…tur a Morte sed vt per se resurrecturus ianuas mortis aperiret The diuine nature of Christ descended to death by his flesh not to be held of death after the law of mortall men but that rising of himselfe hee might open the gates of death Where he saith the diuine nature descended to death he speaketh not of the soule but of the godhead of Christ which words by your leaue require a sober interpretation and yet in respect of the diuine glory the phrase of descending vnto death signifieth Christes submission to die not his descent after death And withall he refelleth two of your fansies first that Christ was was not held of death which you say he was Secondly that he followed not heerein the lâ—…w of mans nature which you say he did And that Christes soule descended to hell by Ruffines opinion his wordes are plaine enough in many places He applieth that to Christ which Dauid saith Thou hast brought my soule out of hell and alleaging the place of Peter In his spirit Christ preached to them which were in prison heerein saith â—…e it is declared quid operâ—…â—…gerit in Inferno What Christ did in hell So that the lesse hold you take of Ruffine the better for you and your cause he will doe more harme then good If any thinke this to be somewhat figuratiue yet is it verely so familiar and easie to all people as that other word in the Creede is he sitteth at the right hand of God yea it is farre easier When you can diue deepe into your owne fansies you thinke them as familiar to all others as to your selfe If this were so easie and readie with the simpler sort as you make it me thinkes it should not so much trouble
your skilles to bring Articles of the Creede to be phrases as if the Apostles and their followers which were the first planters of Churches had ment to teach the simple people not principles of faith but certaine Greeke or Hebrew phrases He that will suffer you to turne his faith into a phrase let him take heed that insteed of heauen he light not on hel which is one of your chiefe phrases But you neuer said that Hades signified heauen You may saue this from a lie if you be not he that wrote this part of your booke as by the crossing and changing of your owne assertions it is euident to euery wise man you did not but otherwise if the quoting of other mens authoritie to prooue Hades to be heauen may conuince you to be of that mind with them whom you cite for that purpose you haue most plainely auouched hades to import and containe heauen Whose words are these I pray you in your Treatise This most singular place sheweth that Hades with them is not properly for hell but for the world of the dead and SOMETIMES AS NAMELY HEERE EVEN FOR HEAVEN So in the next page Againe he saith of heauen that it is an vnseene estate EVEN HADES AS IT IS COMMONLY CALLED Wherefore it is plaine by Plato Hades sometime may bee vnderstood for heauen yea and with the Grecians it was a common phrase And Stephan â—…iteth Plutarch concerning the godly departing being in hades that is in heauen he meant I thinke and not in hell Infinite places might be brought to like purpose but these may suffice which whether they you by them auouch hades to be taken for heauen or no I leaue to the iudgement of the Reader as also whether this be not impudent facing and worthy of other wordes at which you take so much offence Yea this very Article Christ dâ—…scended to Hades you expound by pretence of Bullingers wordes he did goe to Abrahams â—…osome that is into heauen That you auouch Philip. 2. for it is more strange where we haue not one word of his locall being in hell And that the Coloss. 2. should prooue it passeth all the rest Where though we graunt you your reading yet the expresse text referreth that triumph to Christes crosse which you openly deny You doe well to make an Apologie for your impudency and facing the next sentence before but if you reclaime those tâ—…ades of yours you renounce the most part of your obiections and probations in this your defence For doe I cite either of these places in the Pages which you quote to prooue Christes descent after death to the place of hell When you in your proud and scorneâ—…ull humour mocked at Christes actuall conquest and tâ—…iumph ouer hell in generall and called it a woorthie priuiledge surely and very honâ—…rable 〈◊〉 to â—…iumph and insult vpon the â—…ice miserable wofull wretches in their preâ—…t vnâ—…eakable damnation adding All the world knoweth it is the most in glorious and vilest debasing to represse this disdainfull and proud conceit of yours I told you The Apostle made it a part of Christes high exaltation that euerie knec as well of things vnder earth as of things in heanen should bow vnto him and did you thinke it a matter to be mocked and derided and of the place to the Colossians I said What lâ—…iteth then since these wordes were not verified on the crosse but they did take place in his resurrection and therein as by the effects it was most euident and apparant to the eies of all men he did spoile powers and Principalities and made a shew of them openly and triumphed ouer them in his owne person When I speake of things euident and apparent to all mens eies I speake not of things done in hell where no man liuing was present but prooued against you as well by your own wordes as by the Apostles that this triumph was not perfourmed and executed on the crosse though there deserued and purchased For you your selfe debase Christs triumph on the crosse with woorse wordes then I doe you say it was a miserable triumph yea a piteous triumph it was indeede where himselfe remained in such woefull torment where appeared no shew of conquest I say not so but that on the crosse Christ humbled himselfe euen vnto death and thereby merited to be exalted aboue all names and sorts of creatures which God after death most gloriously perfourmed vnto him when euerie knee of those in heauen on earth and vnder earth bowed vnto him and confessed him to be their Lord. This was all I said in those places which you traduce and yet if I had said more and applied them to the actuall triumph of Christes soule after death I wanted not better authoritie so to haue done then you haue any for so many cart-loades of concâ—…its as you haue brought vs. But of both these places I haue spoken before what may suâ—…ce and he that will see more thereof may read what Zanchius hath learnedly and soberly written of those places Ephes. 4. vers 9. and Coloss. 2. vers 15. Where he likewise affirmeth Patres serè sic explicant ex nostris non pauci neque vulgares The Fathers for the most part doe so expound it and of our writers not a few nor the meanest That of the Councels how Christ rose againe hauing spoiled hell I easily yeeld seeing that prooueth not his locall being there Then first you yeeld that Hades with all these generall Councels signifieth hell Next you yeeld that hell was spoyled by Christ before he rose for he rose hauing spoyled hell Thirdly you yeeld that this was done by Christes manhood since his Godhead can be said in no wise to rise from the dead and consequently by his soule since he spoiled hell before he rose when yet his bodie was dead in the graue There remaineth no more but this question whether the soule of Christdid this absent from the place or present in the place which was spoiled And since the scriptures auouch that Christs soule was in Hades which was spoiled as these three generall Councels assirme it is without question that Christes soule present in hell spoiled hell before his resurrection and so returned to his bodie which is the very point you all this while denied and with so much lost labour impugned And least this cause should depend on your slipper turnes and returnes we must vnderstand that not only the generall Councell of Ephesus confirmed and allowed these wordes in the Synodall Epistle of Cyrill to Nestorius but the Councell of Chalcedon and the second Councell of Constantinople ratified the same So that what sense Cyrill had in these wordes the same did the Councell of Ephesus follow Cyrill himselfe there sitting and declaring his owne meaning Yea the Treatises of Cyrill expounding these wordes are inserted into the Acts of the Councell of
renounceth apparantly this sense of the Creed that Christ descended to the hell of the damned Now that is nothing so they thought not good in this Article of the Creed to expresse more then was aunciently set downe for the people to beleeue but they doe not reiect as false whatsoeuer they omit of the later words of King Edwards Synod For so they should reiect this also for false that Christs body lay in the graue till his resurrection which I trust no Christian man doubteth Three things I said there were which the later Synod might conceaue to be conteined in the former that could not be iustified by the Scriptures and in that respect they might leaue out those later words not cutting of putting out or casting away as you ruffle in your termes euery thing there mentioned for so they should cast away aswell the buriall of Christs body as the presence of his soule in hell but refraining to confirme those later words both because there was somewhat amisse in them and they would not impose more on the people to beleeue then was at first comprised in their Creed as also for that they would not establish this to be the right and vndoubted sense of Peters words that Christ in soule preached to the spirits in hell You â—…arge these words of King Edwards Synod with two points which are not in them First that it saith how the spirits of the iust were in hell and that Christ descending thither staied there till his resurrection In me you would make this a great matter so to misreport the words of a Synod which indeed saith nothing hereof Were there no more but this in the words of that Synod that the preaching of Christ to the spirits in hell is set down there as the sole cause of his descent thither or that this sense of S. Peters words is imposed on all men by their authority to be beleeued either of these was reason sufficient to omit those later words of King Edwards Synod But if we rightly looke into the manner and purpose of their speach we shall easily see that I wrong them not For by those words they ment to shew the places where Christs soule and body did abide after they were seuered vntill the resurrection His body say they euen vntill the resurrection lay in the graue his soule being breathed out was vntill the same time with the spirits in prison or hell and preached to them as the place of Peter doth witnesse To say that the soule of Christ dismissed from his body was not at all in the place where the spirits of the iust were had been repugnant to Peters words in the next Chapter if we grant as they did by these words of Peter that Christ preached to the dead For there it is said The Gospell that is the glad tidings of Redemption performed was preached to the dead Which could not be to the wicked since the Gospell was not preached vnto theÌ„ but the iustnesse of their condemnation rather published vnto them Since then as they tooke S. Peters words Christ preached to both the iust and vniust and by their Article declaring where Christ abode after death no more is expressed but that Christ was with the spirits in prison and hell and preached vnto them How can it in any reasonable mans iudgement be auoided but that their words implie the iust were in prison and in hell where Christ preached Neither was this so strange a thing in those daies since many hundred yeeres before it was receaued in most mens mouths and minds that the iust deceased before Christs death were in the same place called hell with the wicked though not in the same paines and many of the Fathers directly affirme no lesse Seing then themselues in their words make no difference betwixt the iust and vniust and generally auouch that Christs soule was with the spirits in hell and preached to them by warrant of Peters words who saith The Gospell was preached to the dead What reason had I to wrest their words to any other sense then that which I saw currant in many fathers before them whose steps by the generall purport of their words they seemed to follow And how iustly might the later Synod refuse those words of theirs which were either so dangerons or so doubtfull that they might not safely be retained It is well that you renounce that of Peter by Austens direction as making not at all for any locall being of Christ in hell But yet herein your selfe openly refuseth the mind of all your Predecessors yea of our later Synode if they beleeued as you vrge they did For if they liked Christs locall being in hel they misliked not the applying of that in Peter thereunto as by Master Nowels Catechisme may appeare It is true that I refrained to bring those places of Peter because Saint Austen though he strongly hold Christs descent to hell to be a part of the Christian faith yet he perceaued and confessed these places might haue an other sense and nothing touch Christs descent to hell Your illation that if the Synode liked Christs locall being in hell they misliked not the applying of that in Peter thereunto is like the rest of your collections As if Saint Austen did not like the one and yet mislike the other Notwithstanding there is difference betwixt liking a quotation as some way pertinent to the cause and proposing the same as a part of Christian Religion for all men of necessitie to imbrace The Synode might doe the one and yet not the other and so iustly leaue out that clause of the former Synode though Peters words in their opinions might haue some such intent Neither doe I preiudice any man to like or alleadge that place of Peter for this purpose since I bind no man to my priuate exposition of the Scriptures but rather stand on those places which haue the full consent of all antiquitie to pertaine directly to this matter Yet this is no barre but many auncient Fathers did vse that place of Peter to prooue Christs descent to hell as Athanasius Cyrill Hilarie and Ambrose did though Austen did not and the Synode in her Maiesties time that is now with God might like thereof to shew that Christ amongst other things did also confirme by his presence and preaching in hell the condemnation of the wicked there though I did not cite those places because Saint Austen had otherwise expounded them For take the word Spirite for the Soule of Christ as the same word is taken in the next verse following for the Soules of men where it is said In which he went and preached to the Spirits in prison and expound the word 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 kept â—…liue or continuing in life as the Syriacke translator doth in saying Christ died in body and liued in spirit in which sense the Scripture saith A man may quicken his soule that is keepe
priuatiâ—…e condition of death they wâ—…l â—…ile at your presumptuous folly If it be a matter of faith it â—… no phrase if we must beleeue as they teach that Christ after his death and buâ—…all deâ—…cended to hell you must shew vs some other hell to which Christ descended after death or els I conclude that the Lawes of this Land bind all men to beleeue and professe that Christ descended to that hell which the Scriptures acknowledge and not â—…hich your roling concâ—…its and totterâ—…ng tonguâ—… would establish against the warrant and word of God whose only will should be the line whose only trueth should be the guide whose only praise should be the end of all our professions and actions THE TABLE SERVING for their vse that are desirous with more ease to finde out the speciall contents of this booke as they are handled in their seuerall places A A Brahams bosom pag. 552 the place therof vnknowen 656 Aâ—…yssus in the Newe Testamenâ—… is hell 6â—…9 Aâ—…sed iâ—…nocents and penitâ—…nts â—…re not though hanged on a tree 238 Châ—…t was noâ—… Aâ—…sed how great soeuer his paines weâ—… 164. 165 S. Auâ—…s iâ—…dgement how Châ—…ist was accursed 241 Men câ—…n not be truly blâ—…ssed and accursâ—…d 253 Thâ—…t is â—…ccâ—…ed whâ—…ch God hateth 257 A sacâ—…ifice for sinne is not acâ—…ursed but accepted of God 258 Adam sinned aswell by bodie as by soule 183. 184 Was punished for his sinne after Christ was promised 147 What God threatened to Adam if he sinned 177. 178 Aeternall death fâ—…r whom Christ might feare 484 Against aeâ—…rnall death as due to him Christ could not pâ—…ay 378. 379 Aeternally God doth not punish one for anothers â—…ault 336 Affections are pâ—…infull to the soule 4â—…9 make sensible alterations in the heart 193. 194 Good affections of loue and zeale are not painfull 26 Euill affections are punishments of sinne 31 Inward affections make outward impressions in the heart 193 The heart is the seat of mans affections and actions  Christ couâ—…d represse and encrease his affections as he saw cause 400 The Aâ—…xe cleaueth to the Verbe and not to the Noune 216 Afflâ—…ctions of the godly are moderated punishmeÌ„ts 9. 10. 11. 17. manifest Gods displeasure against sinne 14â—… Agony what it is 339 Tâ—…e paines of hell were not the cause of Christs agony 58. 59 The causes that might be of Christs agony in the â—…ardeÌ„ 9â—… they crossâ—… not one another 97 I diâ—… not resolue what was the cause of Christs agony  The precise cause of Christs agony is not reuealed in the Scriptures 338. 346. though the general occasions may be coniectured 346 The parts of Christs agony 339 An agony proueth rather zeale then feare 339 Feare and sorrow the Scriptures witnesse in Christs agony 342 Submission to God and compassion on men the generall causes of Christs agony 347 The first cause coÌ„curring to Christs agony 347 The second 354 The third 370 The fourth 371 The fiâ—…th 375 The sixt 399 The Fathers determâ—…ne not the exact cause of Chrâ—…sts agony 371 How some vse the word agony 403 The different affâ—…ctions in Christs agony had different causes 558 Amazâ—…d neither Moses nor Paul were in their praâ—…ers 368 Christ was not amazed in his praier 369. 479 Christs praier prooueth hee was not then amazed 469 Christs â—…raier was no amaze 467 The Defender yeeldâ—…th perfect knowledge to Christ in his amazednes 481 Angry God was with our sinnes but not with Christs person 463 God is truely angry with his childrens sinnes 14 Angels sinned in their whole nature as men doe 197 Angels and good men receaued the bowing of the body 662 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 signifieth For as well as From. 501 The Apostle 1. Cor. 15. speaketh onely of the resurrection to glory 640. What his wordes Hâ—…b 5. inferre 498. 499. 500 Beleeuers may not iudge of the apostles words 89 More Apostles then twelue 651 The diuers reading and translating of the apostles words 1. Cor. 15. 55. 639 Astonishment what it is 441 What astonishment with feare is 468 Christ did not pray in astonishment 441 Why Christ might be somewhat astonished 468 Athanasius lewdly falsified by the Defender 275 taketh Hades for hell 569. 600. 601 What Athanasius speaketh of Adam the Defender referreth to Christ. 275 Augustine not ignorant of the Greeke tongue 608 his iudgement how Christ was accursed 241 keepeth the sense of Peters word Act. 2. 626 is grossely mistaken by the Defender 627  Christ tooke our naturall but not sinfull affections 330 Christ might beholde the power of Gods wrath and yet not feare the vengeance due to the wicked 348 Christ prayed for vs and against Satan 352 Christ knew the burden of our sinnes must lie on his shoulders 353 Christ and his members must drinke of one and the same cup. 353 Christ wept for the desolation of Ierusalem and sorowed for the reiection of the Iewes 354 Christ wept and sorrowed when he would 355 Christ grieued at the wilfulnesse of the Iewes 357 Christ sorowed that his death should be the ruine of the Iewes ibid. Christ chose the time and place to shew his vehement affections 358 Christ could not be content to be separated from God for vs. 367 Christ suffered the likenesse of our punishment not of our sinne 273 Christ was not ordained to be damned for vs. 364 Christ feared not death but his Fathers power 370 Christ might pray to haue the deepnes of his sorrowes comforted paines asswaged 374. 375 Christ might pray against the sting of death which he was to feele before he died 381 Christ could not pray against eternall death as due to him but vnto vs. 378. 379 Christ was most earnestly to aske what God had faithfully promised to graunt 384 Christ felt all our affections not of necessitie but according to his owne power and will 386 Christ shewed in the garden how mans soule strugleth with the panges of death 388 Christ was weake to comfort the weak but stronger then the strongest on the crosse 388. 390 Christ saw the whole danger from which hee should redeeme vs. 392. 393 Christ teacheth all his to feare Gods power as himselfe did in the garden 393. 394 Christ presented and dedicated his body in the garden which he sufâ—…ered on the crosse to be done to death 399 Christ died not in the garden 400 Christ could represse and increase his affections as he saw cause 400 Christ found no ioy in his paines but comfort in his hope 411 Christ emptied himselfe of glory not of grace 412 Christ citing the 1. vers of the 21. Psalme noteth the whole to appertaine to his passion 434 Christ was mortified in flesh but not in soule 507 Christ might passe from hell to heauen 550 Christ needed no long time to deâ—…cend to hel 551 Christ presented himselfe in euery place 564 Christ was to rise full conquerer of hell and death 668 How Christs death was like the godlies 7 How Christ laid downe his soule for
ordained to be damned for vs. 364 Dauid neuer felt the true paines of hell 453 Dauids feare vnlike to Christs 442 What Death Christ died 19 A threefold death the wages of sinne 13â—… Corporall death in all men is the punishment of sinne 149. 150. 151. 176 Death in Christ was the satisfaction for sinne 176 Euerlasting death the wages of sinne which Christ could not suffer 226 The death of the body is euill in it selfe though God to his make it a passage to life 244. 245 The consequenâ—…s after death doe not proue death to be good 246 The nature of death not changed in the godly 252 God so hâ—…teth death that he will destroy it as an enemie 254 Naturall death came not by the sentence of Mosâ—… Law 261 Thâ—…e is no death of the Soule without sinne 366 All feele the sting of death which Christ expressed before he died 389 The death and life of the soule here on earth mistaken by the Defender 430 What the second death is in the Scriptures 492 Eight pâ—…es of Scripture abused for the death of Christs Soule 493 By one lande of death Christ freed vs from all kinds of death 504 To be vtterly forsaken of God is the death of the Soule 517. 518 The extreamest degree of pains where grace doth not faile is no death of the Soule 524 What things the death of the body doth import 649 The Defender grosly peruerteth my words 44. 45 The Defender contâ—…adicteth himselfe 56. 57 The Defender contemneth the Fathers and their iudgements 82 The Defender deuiseth shifts to decline Scriptures and Fathers against him 94 The Defender would make the maner of Christes dying onely vnusuall 95 The Dâ—…fender doth grossely mistake the reiection of the Iewes to be the meaning of Christes complaint on the crosse 98 The Dâ—…fender not able to support his errors doth quarrell with the question 99 The Defender eludeth the Scriptures with his termes of single and meere 125. 126. 127 The Defender clouteth one conclusion out of diuers places 146 The Defender maketh the sufferings of Christs flesh needlesse to our redemption 168. 169 The Defender peruerteth the doctrine of the Homilies 224. 225 The Defender maketh Christ sinfull accursed and defiled 265 The Defender would not faile to cite Fathers if he had them 273 The Defender compareth Christ in want of comfort with the damned 291 The Defender vainly presumeth all places of his vnanswered to be granted 319 The Defender hath deuised torments for Christs soule 323 The Defender controleth the words of the holy Ghost by his new phrases 413 The Defender in steed of proouing falleth to granting his owne positions 5â—…3 The Defender misciteth S. Iohns words and on that error groundeth all his reasons 644 The Defender giuing a reason of nâ—…thing asketh a reason of all things 415 The Defender claimeth like reuerence to his words as to the Scripture 325 The Defender saith the Scriptures are ordinarilie true that is sometimes false 367 The Defender doth euery where mistake and misapply what is said 384 The Defender forgeth a pace new parts of the Christian faith 393 The Defender taketh the parts of Christs agonie for the causes thereof 401 The Defender is somewhat pleasureable 528 The Defender corrupteth S. Luke 402. 403 The Defender ascribeth a liuely affection to Christs dead flesh 422 The Defender vttereth a flat contradiction to his owne doctrine 422. 423 The Defender confesseth the Fathers prooue my meaning 425 The Defender is driuen to contrarieties 431 The Defender taketh from Christ inward sense and memory in his sufferings 440 The Defender yeeldeth perfect knowledge to Christ in his amazednesse 481 The Defender foolishly prooueth the death of Christs soule 495. 496 The Defender abuseth the Scriptures 534. 535 The Defender cannot discerne a conclusion from a quotation 568 The Defendours foure restraints of hell paines 4 The Defendours disdaine of the fathers 98 The Defendours vaine shifts 114. 115 The Defendours skill in framing arguments 327 The Defendours absurd deuises 490 The Defendours manner of reasoning as illogicall as his matter is false 336 Dereliction in the Scriptures neuer implieth the paines of the damned 415 Deepe what it signifieth 566 To what Deepe Christ descended after death 565 567 The true sense of Paul and Moses words Rom. 10. concerning the Deepe 568 The whoâ—…e church taught that Christ after death descended to hell 544. 545 New Writers teach Christs descent to hell 546. 547 Christ needed no long time to descend to hell 551 Of Christs descending and ascending 553 Christ aescended and ascended to be Lord ouer all 563 To what deepe Christ descended after death 565 567 Descending is to places below 569 How long this clause of Christs descent to hell hath been in the Creed 653. 654 What Ruffinus meaneth by Christs descent to hell 655 Descending to hades was not the buriall of Christs body 556. 557. 558 The causes of Christs descent to hell 666 Desâ—…ending to hell was a part of Christs exaltation 671 The descent of Christ to hell confessed by the Catechisme 677 The Lawes of this land doe binde all to beleeue Christs descent to hell 678 Desperation in hell is no sinne 71 Desperation is the sorest torment in this life 238 A small Difference of wordes may quite alter the sense 199 Difference of Christs offering and suffering 276 Difference of outward and inward temptatioÌ„s 314 Difference betwixt Gods threats iudgements 472 How the Diuell may discerne and incense our affections 192 The Diuell tormented not Christes soule on the Crosse. 295 Christ suffered as deepe paines but not as deepe Doubts as we may 321 E. ELect Who is enemie to Gods Elect. 233 The Elect are neuer truely accursed 252 The Elect cannot perish 364 Erasmus fouly mistaken by the defendor 653 Foure notable Errors grounded by the defendor vpon the facts of Moses and Paul 363 The first 363 The second 365 The third 367 The fourth 368 What impressions Euill maketh in the soule of man 341 Euill past present or to come worketh sorrow paine and feare in the soule of man 341 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 what it importeth 485 Is contrarie to feare 501 Esay doth not touch the death of Christes soule 526. 527 Esay 14. Shcol for hell 559. 560 Eusebius report of Thaddeus allowed by the best historiographers 660 F FAthers their iudgements may be called Authorities 83 The Fathers may be left in some priuate opinions 84 I leaue not the Fathers in the grounds of faith 85 The Fathers doc not teach that Christ suffered all which we should haue suffered 138. 139 The Fathers disclaime all necessitie in the death of Christ. 285 The Fathers determine not the exact cause of Christs Agonie 371 Wherein we should follow the Fathers 415 Some Fathers expound me in Christs wordes for my members 416 No Father auoucheth the death of Christs Soule 142. 143 Diuerse Fathers euidently corrupted for the death of Christs Soule 428. 429 By the iudgement of the Fathers Christ died
Garden and be farre from doubting his owne saluation and our redemption So that Christes words doe no way touch your new deuice of hell paines except by contradicting it For where Christ sayd n Luke 12. v. 4. I speake to you my friends o vers 5. I will forwarne you whom you shall feare 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 feare him that hath power AFTER HE HATH KILLED to cast into hell you contrarie to Christes words auouch that God first cast Christes soule into hell in the Garden and after killed his bodie on the crosse where Gods course is as Christ obserueth after he hath killed to cast into hell or Gehenna where the paines of the damned are And so where Christ maketh the second death of the damned to come after the death of the bodie you make in Christ and all his members the second death to go before the first which is a grosse ouersight as well against order as against trueth saue that your conceits haue neither order weight nor measure p Defenc. pag. 104. li. 11. Here you haue a notable saying in the margent which must not be forgotten we must preferre Christs sufferings before all Martyrs not for his paines but for his Patience Not for his paines but for his Patience A rare distinction If you could make vs beleeue that the greatest patience is tried and discerned where the smallest paines are then you said somewhat The margin will prooue you fit to play with a feather and willing to embrace a bable before a better thing Doe my words there import or intend that Christs paines were lesse then the paines of Martyrs Hauing said before as much as I thought good touching the comparison of Christs paines with other mens I obserued here that Christs patience in suffering farre passed theirs whatsoeuer we resolued of his paines My words were q Sermo pa. 7. li. 10. Longer torments others haue endured but neuer greater for the time nor with like patience This as your manner is you ouerskip and where I refuse a needlesse contention what kinds of paines are sharpest here on earth but auouch Christs patience far exceeded the tolerance of Martyrs whatsoeuer Christs patience was greater than any mans whatsoeuer his paines were his paines did you neither remember what I before auouched nor what these words inferre but make your selfe merie with your owne folly We must preferre I said Christs sufferings before all Martyrs not for his paines the exact degree whereof I know not but for his patience Doth this hinder but that Christs paines were equall to any Martyrs sufferings though I tooke not vpon me to make them sharper then all the paines that euer were felt on earth My words before were plaine enough greater torments for the time others neuer endured And if such a Wyer-drawer as you are would goe to cafling which is the sharpest kind of paine it pertained not much to the purpose there could be no question but Christs patience in his extreame paines did farre excell all mens Indeede you little regard his patience for you put him in a maze all confounded and all astonished where neither obedience nor patience could haue any place and as for paines you will none other but the paines of the damned which passe the patience of men and Angels Wherefore that I would make men beleeue the greatest patience is tried in the smallest paines is a buzzardly deuice of your owne and howsoeuer I would not contend whether Christs paines were the sharpest that euer were suffered on earth yet I before resolued his paines to be as great as any mans euer were in this mortall body and his patience to be farre greater and painfuller to him The reasons whereof I gaue before in my Sermons though your course be to leape ouer what you list and to meddle with no more then you may entertaine with a wrest or a iest The eminence of Christs patience aboue all Martyrs I shewed to consist in these two points in exacter sense and perfecter obedience at the time of his sufferings then any man euer had or could haue For in others the more violent the tortures the sooner they ouerwhelme the sense and hasten death but in Christ whatsoeuer you dreame to the contrarie there was no confusion nor corruption of sense rather when his paines were sharpest and himselfe weakest then was his sense as tender if not tenderer then at any time before Againe in others euen in Martyrs when paine doth passe their strength the Soule struggleth and striueth to repell or auoyde the paine which when she cannot conquere nor resist she departeth the body In Christ it was otherwise when the sharpnesse of paine most fiercely assaulted him then did his obedience and patience rise to the highest degree So that nothing in him refused or declined the bitternesse of his paines nor so much as repined or shrunke at it but to the vttermost he put himselfe with all submission and patience aduisedly obediently and quietly to beare and endure the greatest rage and excesse of his intolerable torments which no mans strength or nature can performe And this I trust toucheth the triall and proofe of Christs patience and not the inward habite as you call it not so much as vnderstanding that my words concerne the vse and not the gift of Christs patience And if I would enterpret my words as you did Saint Austens a little before when they contained contraries not consequents as mine doe and so say Christs sufferings must be preferred before all Martyrs not for paines only but for patience also since there could be no vse of patience in Christ without paines then by your owne interpretation which in things consequent is very requisite you haue flowen faire and seased on a Butterflie r Defenc. pag. 104. li. 28. By this also we may see how vaine your next coniecture is that he feared in his Agony corporall castigation aboue his strength For why may not Martyrs and others feare as much crùeltie and extraordinarie torments at the hands of men as Christ had cause to doe You haue an habite of vnderstanding nothing besides that which no man vnderstandeth besides your selfe When I tell you that another thing s Sermo pag. 24. li. 18. which Christ might iustly feare and earnestly pray against though his soule were neuer so safe from the paines of the damned was the power of Gods wrath to be executed on his bodie t li. 22. for God was armed with infinit vengeance to afflict and punish the bodie about that the humane flesh of Christ was able to endure You answer why may not martyrs feare as much at mens â—…andes Wisely forsooth and as much to the purpose as chalke to make cheese Why should not Martyrs feare the power of men against their bodies as much as Christ feared the power of God against his body If you see not the cause aske one of the children that dwelleth at next house to you if
they haue learned to know God from men and they will readily tell you though my wordes were full enough but that your head was so emptie as not to see what I said God I said was armed with infinite vengeance to afflict the body aboue that the humane flesh of Christ was able to endure Are men so armed as God is euen in this life I troe not and therefore are not so to be feared u Defenc. pag 104 li. 32. Why should the feare of any whatsoeuer meere bodily paines ouercome Christes patience Euen therefore because it was humane and weake in respect of God and farre vnable to beare that which God could impose Are not martyrs as far vnable Yes farre lesse able whether it be the hand of God or of man which they must feele Why then are not they as much afraid Of Gods power they are when and wheresoeuer shewed vnto them or duely considered by them As Moses when God x Exo. 19. v. 16. lightned and thundred on mount Sinai before the deliuering of the Law y Heb. 12. v. 21 Why Christ feared more than martyrs do feared and trembled by the Apostles report as well as the rest of the people And as for the rage of men Martyrs first know that Gods wrath towards them is appeased by Christ Iesus and therefore they shall feele no more but the hands of men Secondly that as the crueltie of humane tortures increaseth so God either assisteth his seruants by diminishing the bitternesse of their paines or suffereth their strength or sense to be ouerwhelmed by the furie of their torments in which case the soule though impatient of such paine doth not sinne because the violence is greater then mans strength can endure and thereby driueth the soule from the bodie With Christ it was otherwise For where he was to beare our sinnes in his bodie and had power sufficient in himlefe to decline or frustrate all that men could doe vnto him when he would he was to see that Gods hand might ioyne with the Iewes rage for the punishments of our sinnes in his flesh and that the sharper the anguish which he should feele the exacter the sense thereof which he must haue and yet must still continue the perfection of his obedience and patience since no violence of torments were they neuer so intolerable might ouerwhelme his sense or force his soule from his body but he must expect the time appointed by his Father when he should in full sense and memorie breath out his soule at an instant as I haue formerly shewed He might therefore feare as well the violence as the continuance of his paines farre more then Martyrs neede if he did not deprecate the power of Gods wrath deserued by our sinnes to be eased euen in his body where he bare our sinnes For God was and is able to aggrauate bodily paines farre aboue the strength of mans nature in vs or in Christ without meanes or by meanes whatsoeuer So that Christ desiring this cup which he now beheld for THIS doth demonstrate somewhat conceaued in the cup which he declined should passe from him might haue this meaning that the cuppe should passe from him and not oppresse his patience because his flesh was but weake to beare that heaâ—…ie burden in his body which our sinnes prouoked and was heard as the Apostle noteth of this praier in the garden and eased of that he seared Christ knew all thinges you will say that should befall him Then he also knew what his praier would auert of that punishment which our sinnes deserued and since it is euident that greater torments both of soule and body were due to vs foâ—… our sin as we find by the damned who are in the same desert with vs though not partakers of the same mercie with vs why should not Christ by his praier which he knew God would heare decline what he disliked in the cup of Gods wrath mixed for the sinnes of men and yet submit and commit himselfe after praier made wholy to the will of God his father z Defenc. pag. 105. li. 1. If you meane that he felt greater paines concurring in and with the bodily punishment inflicted by the wrathfull hand of God armed with infinite vengeance then you say well and we acknowledge it If I will mistake fearing for suffering and bodily for ghostly pains and the crosse for hell and make Gods immediate hand a pretence for all these deuices as you doe then I say well as you suppose but if I make the power of God able to afflict for sinne the Bodie or Soule of man aboue all humane strength without the paines of the damned and Christ iustly to feare the power of Gods wrath if he did not by earnest and humble prayer pacifie Gods indignation for as much as exceeded the weaknesse and patience of his manhood then my coniectures are vaine though they neuer so well agree with the rules of religion and pietie But in this you doe as all Sectaries are wont to acknowledge no sinceritie but in their owne secrets a August contra 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 li. 11 cap. 2. Tues ergo regula veritatis quicquid contra te facit non est verum Are you then the rule of truth and whatsoeuer is against you is that not true b Defenc. pag. 105. li. 4. Your other cause is for that by death his Body should want awhile the feeling of Gods presence But did not Christ perfectly know that this was Gods decree and certaine appointment yea his owne most free will and purpose He that once hath vndertaken to wrench the Scriptures from their right sense will neuer sticke to wrangle with all the world as long as braine or breath will giue him leaue Often enough if that would serue you haue beene told that I produced not those foure points on which you last insisted as causes of Christs agonie but as respects of his fearing disliking and shunning bodily death against which you say nothing but that he could not he would not so feare it as to sweate bloud for it Which sillinesse if not sottishnesse still to impugne that which I doe not affirme and to post ouer the rest as pertinent to Christs perfection and holinesse and so no part of his sufferings is the best ground of your defence but take any of these foure points which you so much mislike and referre them rightly to the end for which I brought them or any of the former fiue causes concurring to Christs agonie and speake directly and truely to any one of them and you shall be excused for all the rest But being not able to refute one of them in sound and vpright reasoning All your shift is to misapply the respects of Christs declining death as if I made them causes of his agonie and to single the causes which I auouch might all meete in Christs feare and sorrow in the Garden as sole and singular efficients of his whole
all his Disciples to feare him euen God y Luc. 12. who after he hath killed hath power to cast into hell Shall we thence inferre by your diuinitie that God will cast all the faithfull into hell because he hath power so to doe which they must feare z Philip. 2 Finish your saluation with feare and trembling saith the Apostle Shall we therefore neuer be saued because we must alwayes tremble and feare vnder the mightie hand of God Vnder the same hand of God migh Christ feare and tremble not doubting of his saluation nor distrusting his Fathers loue but knowing that the hand of God was Almightie and able to impose farre greater paine on his bodie then his humane flesh was able to beare It is therefore due to Gods power from all the faithfull and was likewise from Christes manhoode for men to be afrayd of the strength of Gods hand when he ariseth to punish sinne though when and how he will doe it we may not or cannot determine And if we should graunt that Christs flesh euen thus feared the power of Gods hand that was able to keepe him from death and to inflict what paine pleased him you are no whit the nearer to your new found hell or to your second death of Christs soule which you labour to deriue from these words of the Apostle to the Hebrewes But to let the reader see how rashly rudely you conclude what you list out of the Apostles words without any sure ground The word which all this while you haue taken to import a coufused and perplexed feare in Christ hath no such signification in the Greeke tongue and in this place of the Apostle by the iudgement of the ancient and best learned interpreters of all ages that are not infected with this new fansie is taken for reuerence or a religious feare of God Of which signification there can be no question with any man that is meanely learned And albeit some fauouring your fansie haue sough farre and neere for examples where 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 might signifie a painefull and amazing feare yet find they none neither in prophane nor sacred writers but only a carefull feare to decline euill or a religious feare honoring God to be the true force of that word How prophane men vse the word with that I haue elsewhere sayd this may suffice Diogenes Laertius deliuering the decrees and opinions of the best philosophers saith of them they affirme a 〈◊〉 de 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 i. 7. 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 that 〈◊〉 carefulnesse is contrary to feare as being an honest and reasonable declination of euill 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 and that a wise man is neâ—…er amazed with feare but wary to decline euill Saint Ierom confesseth as much among Christians b 〈◊〉 li 3 〈◊〉 5. â—…pist â—…d 〈◊〉 He that feareth hath paiâ—…e and is not perfect According to which signification of feare seruants haue the spirit of bondage in feare There is another kind of feare named by the Philosophers 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 and with vs it may be called 〈◊〉 though this doe not fully match the force of the word The Prophet Dauid knew tâ—…e 〈◊〉 of the perfect when he said nothing wanteth to them that feare the Lord. Of Simeon that tooke Christ in his armes when he was brought to the Temple by his mother Saint Luke saith he was a iust man 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 and one that religiously feared God So of those 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 2. that buried Steuen the Martyr he saith d 〈◊〉 8. 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 certaine mâ—…n Fâ—…ARING GOD caried Steuen to bee buried And in the twelfth of this Epistle the same Apostle vseth the very word which he applied before to Christ for the common duetie of all the godly e Hebr. 12. Let vs haue grace by which we may serue and please God with reuerence 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 and a religious feare Which is M. f 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 in 12. ca. epistolâ—… ad Hebreos Bezaes owne interpretation of that place howsoeuer he swarue from it in the formâ—…r words of the same Epistle Neither doth the Syriack translation any thing helpe him since the word dechalta which in the fift Chapter is affirmed of Christ in the 12. Chapter of the same Epistle and indiuers other places of the new Testament is by the same translator referred to al Christians as expressing a generall duty belonging to God And therfore there is no need why any man should translate the one otherwise then he doth the other specially the whole Greeke and Latin Church concurring in one and the same signification and exposition of the word which is a better precedent to follow then any one mans translation And where some others would take aduantage of the Greeke preposition 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 as 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 signifiâ—…th for as well as from signifying alwayes from and not for it is an euident ouersight in them abusing their skill to maintaine their will more then trueth enforceth For 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 in the new Testament and with the Septuagint noteth vsually as well for as from In the 14. of Saint Matthewes Gospell when the disciples saw Christ walking on the waters at the fourth watch of the night and approching the ship wherein they were they cryed g Matth. 14. vers 26. 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 for feare The souldiers likewise that kept the Sepulchre when they saw the Angell that rolled away the stone and sate on it they were h Matth. 28. vers 〈◊〉 astonished 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 for feare and became as dead men Zacheus by reason of his low stature could not see Iesus i Luc. 19. v. 3. 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 for the multitude or presse that was about him The Apostles that cast theiâ—… net into the sea at Christs commandement could not draw it 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 for the number k Ioh 21. v. 6. of fishes that were in the net Paul reporting the maner of his conuersion how he was stroken to the ground with a great light that suddenly shined on him from heauen sayth When I could not see l Acts 22. ver 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 because of the glory of that light I was led by the hand to Damascus The Sâ—…ptuagint in many places vse the same proposition in the same sense Israels eyes were dimme m Gen. 48. v. 14 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 for age My bones sayth Iob are drie n Iob. 30. v. 30 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 for heat You shall crie o Esa. 65. v. 14. 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 for griefe of heart and houle 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 for affliction of spirit sayth Esay of the Iewes reiected Where the Septuagint doe make 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 equiualent to 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 with an accusatiâ—…e which noteth the cause of any thing Infinite are the examples that might be brought out
of sacred and prophane writers for farder proofe hereof but these are enough to shew that Chrysostom Photius Oecumenius Theophylactus and other Graecians commenting on those words of the Apostle did not forget the propriety of their owne tongue when they expounded this text as declaring that Christ was heard for the reuerend respect of God to his sonne or for the religious submission of the sonne to his Father and the Latin Fathers Ierom Ambrose Primasius Sedulius Bede Haymo and others following the same translation did not erre of ignorance but duely considered the nature and force of the Apostles words Where then you haue made vs a stout conclusion that Christ thus fearing could feare nothing but the death of the soule or the second death you cannot iustly prooue by any words heere vsed that Christ had any feare much lesse such a feare as you imagine though I may safely grant a feare and such a feare as the Scriptures describe or expresse of Christ and you nothing the neerer to your presumptuous conceit Now if we giue eare to the auncient Fathers discussing this place your deuice hath neither strength nor stay in these words p Ambros. in 5. ca. epistolae ad Hebreos Beatus Paulus hic dicit preces cum et supplicationes fundere non timore mortis sed nostrae causa salutis Vnde in alio loco dicit sanguinem Christi melius clamasse pro nobis quam sanguinem Abel Blessed Paul heere saith as Ambrose writeth that Christ offered praiers and supplications not for any feare of his owne death but for the cause of our saluation Wherevpon in another place Paul saith the bloud of Christ cried better things for vs then the bloud of Abel And againe q Ibidem Totum quicquid egit Christus in carne preces sunt supplicationes propeccatis humani generiâ—… All whatsoeuer Christ did in the flesh were praiers and supplications for the sinnes of mankind So saith Primasius r 〈◊〉 in 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 ad Heâ—…reos All that Christ did in the flesh were praiers and supplications for the sinnes of mankind and the sacred shedding of his bloud was a strong crie in which he was heard of God his Father for his reuerence That is for his voluntary obedience and most perfect charity s Ibidem Christ heere is sayd to haue powred forth prayers and supplications not for feare of death but rather in the 〈◊〉 our saluation And we must note that reuerence as Cassiodorus sayth is taken sometimes for loue and sometimes for feare but here it is put for the exceeding loue wherewith the Sonne of God embraced vs and for the perfect obedience whereby he was subiect to his Father euen vnto death So Sedulius t 〈◊〉 in 5. ca. 〈◊〉 ad Hebreos Christ prayed with teares not soed for feare of death but for our saluation and was heard of God the Father when the Angel did comfort him For his reuerence either his with his fathers or his fathers towards him Haymo treadeth in the same steps with Primasius u 〈◊〉 in 5. ca. 〈◊〉 ad Hebrâ—…os The Apostle speaketh this of Christ meaning plainly to expresse what our hie Priest â—…id in his Priesthood What is in the daies of his flâ—…sh as long as he dwâ—…lt in this mortall body he offered vp praiers and supplications with strong cries and teares to God his father All that Christ did in the flesh were 〈◊〉 and supplications for the sinnes of mankind and the sacred shedding of his bloud was a strong crie 〈◊〉 herein he was heard of God his Father for his reuerence that is for his voluntary 〈◊〉 and most perfect charity God heard him in raising him vp the third day as the Psalmist saith thou wilt not suffer thine holy one to see corruption If then the Apostles purpose were to note as these Fathers affirme that Christ all the time of his conuersing heere with men shewed himselfe our hie Priest with strong cries and teares for vs to God that was able to saue him and his members from death or to raise him againe from death as conquerer thereof and was heard for his religious obedience and loue to God and man what shew hath the death of Christes soule in these words or what sequence from them Neither is there any part of this exposition that wanteth good warrant from the Scriptures and likewise allowance from the fathers For bâ—…sides that Christ said to Paul as yet a persecutor x Acts 9. Saul Saul why persecutest thou me not in person but in members the Apostle setteth these things downe for assuâ—…ed points of doctrine that y Rom. 6. our old man was crucified with Christ and we z 〈◊〉 2. buried with him and raised vp and quickened together with him and a 〈◊〉 2. made sit together in heauenly places in Christ Iesus b 〈◊〉 de 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 ad 〈◊〉 li. 2. We were in him as in a second first fruits or new restoring of our nature praying with a strong crie and not without teares desiring the impery of death to be abolished and the life which was at first giuen to our nature to be restored But here of I haue spoken so much before that I may spare my paines in this place Only if we follow the 〈◊〉 which the Syriak interpreter proposeth agreeable to the greeke and latin Fathers that Christ c Testamentum 〈◊〉 ca. 5. ad Hebreos when he was compassed with flesh offered praiers and petitions with a vehement crie and teares to him that was able to raise him or quicken him from death and was heard We need none other subuersion of all your syllogismes For then the thing which Christ so earnestly desired with strong cries and teares was the resurrection of himselfe and of all his members after the death of the body into a perpetuall and celestiall life d Defenc. pag. 137. li. 22. When in the garden Christ praied against that cup which he feared that it might passe from him there he yeeldeth and submitteth himselfe presently to the vndergoing of it But it were I know not what to saie that Christ did euer yeeld and submit himselfe to vndergoe eternall death or to tast the cup of gods eternall malediction Therefore it was not this that he feared and heere praid against You are somwhat idle headed to make such a stur for that which I am farder from then you are At the sharpenesse of Christs bodily death which he would not frustrate nor mitigate and in the paines whereof he was to yeeld more perfect obedience and patience then all mankind besides was able to doe the weaknesse of his humane flesh might naturally somewhat stagger and the power of Gods hand against sinne which might be laied on his â—…oule or body he might vehemently but righteously feare and with strong cries and teares deprecate the force thereof and in neither of these is there any vicinity with the second death or with
of the Christian faith would any man in his right wits haue asked as Austen doth Who dare auouch it He discusseth the place of S. Peter and when he commeth to those words Christ was quickened in the spirit or by the spirit he resolueth this cannot be spoken of Christs humane soule because that which was afterwards quickened was first mortified and therefore we could not say that Christs humane spirit or soule was restored to life except we first yeelded that it was before subiected to death Now that Christs soule was euer dead who durst auouch it The reason why Christs soule could neuer die he rendreth thus for that the Scriptures acknowledge no death of the soule in any but sin and damnation to neither of which the soule of Christ could be subiect x August epist. 99. Certè anima Christi nullo mortificata peccato vel damnatione punita est quibus duabus causis mors animae intelligi potest Surely the soule of Christ was neither dead with any sin nor punished with damnation which are the two waies how the death of the soule may be possibly vnderstood This collection of S. Austins out of the Scriptures touching the death of the soule is most sound and cannot be shaken with all your shewes and shifts talke of ordinarie and extraordinarie as long as you will That standing good which yet we see immooueable for all your battery it followeth ineuitably that Christ ne did ne could die the death of the soule ne may any man defend it without apparent falsity and impiety What proofes you haue profered against S. Austins conclusion let the Reader iudge I must confesse my selfe very blind if he see any for I see none and therefore not only S. Austins words but his reasons out of holy Scripture stand firme and hold you fast to the grinding stone being no way as yet counteruailed or controled but with your vaine speaches and most vnlearned euasions y Defenc pag. 142. li. 2. Nay according to Austins owne definition of the soules dying it will easily appeare that Christes soule may be said to haue suffered some kind of death Mors est spiritus deseri a Deo The death of the soule saith he is Gods for saking of it but the Scripture saith God did forsake him for a season yea the Fathers also agree fully therevnto Therefore by Anstins definition largely and rightly taken Christ may be said in some sense to haue died in soule From your shifts you returne againe to your proofes and neither barrell is better herring The maior you thinke is Austins the minor is Christs owne words and what trow you should hinder the cōclusion This reason hath but three of your wonted flowers I must not say faults the maior is larger then Austen euer ment and the minor no way matcheth it except you quite alter the words of Christ and the conclusion commeth nothing neere to your purpose Examine them in order Not euery forsaking of the soule is death for the godly often in the Scriptures complaine as I haue shewed that they are forsaken of God when yet their soules liue but as life is repugnant to death and God is the life of the soule so till God haue vtterly forsaken the soule she is not dead Whiles she retaineth any fellowship of grace with God who is her life she is not dead because she partaketh with life As then death is the vtter priuation of life so God must vtterly forsake the soule before she can be pronounced to be dead and that kind of forsaking is indeed the death of the soule in this life So that your maior if euer you will come neere S. Austins meaning must be the death of the soule is Gods vtter for saking of the same And that thus you must conster S. Austins words appeareth euery where by his z In Psal. 70. in Iohan. tract 47. de verbis Apost Serm. 30. comparison with the death of the bodie which is not dead till the soule be vtterly departed from it For as the body which hath in it any power or presence of the soule is not dead but liuing so the soule that hath any communion with God who is her life can not be truely sayd to be dead but as yet to haue life Were you no Diuine but a plaine Sophister reason teacheth you so to vnderstand S. Austins words for where life and death be priuatiues as well in the soule as in the bodie the one hath no place till the other be vtterly quenched He is not blinde that hath any sight nor deafe that hath any hearing the priuation vtterly excludeth the habite neither is the soule dead that hath any force or effect of life in her and consequently not euerie forsaking but onely an vtter forsaking of God is the death of the soule heere in this life Your minor then should be that Christes Soule was vtterly forsaken of God which are not the words of Christ on the crosse nor any way consonant to them yea the verie entrance to that speech when Christ saide My God my God doth prooue the quite contrarie a Matth. 22. God is not the God of the dead but of the liuiug Then directly by the plaine wordes of Scripture when Christ said My God my God his soule confessing God to be his God was liuing and consequently the wordes following why hast thou forsaken me doe net prooue the death of the soule vnlesse you make the Sonne of God so vnwise as not to vnderstand what he said or so amazed that he marked not his owne speech which with you perchance is no absurditie but with me it is a wicked and vnchristian impietie Christes wordes therefore import that he found a kinde of forsaking but not that his soule was forsaken of the trueth grace or spirit of God these be blasphemies to auouch and no points of pietic nor that he was vtterly or altogither forsaken which onely is the death of the soule And against this wresting of Christes wordes from their right sense how many testimonies of scriptures and Fathers haue I sormerly brought all which you trippe ouer with a light foote and make as though you felt them not You haue beene told b Galat 3. the iust shall liue by saith So that if Christ wanted not faith he could not choose but liue in soule Againe c 1. Iohn 4. God is 〈◊〉 and he that dwelleth in loue dwelieth in God Christ then must either haue life or want loue for the loue of God is the life of the soule Farder the Spirit of God is the d Rom. 8. spirit of life that quickneth the soule yea then 〈◊〉 thereof is life and peace Then must you take from Christ the spirit of God with all the gifts and graces thereof before you can depriue the soule of Christ from life What an hellish heape of blasphemies are here before you can affirm that Christs soule was dead according to the Scriptures