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ID	Title	Author	Corrected Date of Publication (TCP Date of Publication)	STC	Words	Pages
A14399	Concerning the excommunication of the Venetians a discourse against Cæsar Baronius Cardinall of the Church of Rome In which the true nature and vse of excommunication is briefly and cleerly demonstrated, both by testimonies of Holy Scripture, and from the old records of Christs Church. Written in Latine by Nicolas Vignier, and translated into English after the copie printed at Samur 1606. Whereunto is added the Bull of Pope Paulus the Fift, against the Duke, Senate and Commonwealth of Venice: with the protestation of the sayd Duke and Senate. As also an apologie of Frier Paul of the order of Serui in Venice.; De Venetorum excommunicatione, adversus Caesarem Baronium. English	Vignier, Nicolas.; Sarpi, Paolo, 1552-1623. Apologia per le oppositioni fatte dall'illustrissimo & reverendissimo signor cardinale Bellarminio alli trattati, et risolutioni di Gio. Gersone. English.; Baronio, Cesare, 1538-1607. Duo vota. English.; Catholic Church. Pope (1605-1621 : Paul V); Venice (Republic : to 1797). Doge (1606-1612 : Donato)	1607 (1607)	STC 24719; ESTC S120778	41,133	78

with the vaine rumbling of the Papall cursings haue termed now at last Galli alluding to the French in the ambiguitie of words who heertofore sided with the Popes against Venice The Armes of France Saint Antonies fire Lib. 22. cap. 19. Mushromes much eaten in Italy and haue a poisonous qualitie in them saith Atheneus But he meaneth the pride and vanitie the word being fungus In fasciculo rerum expetendarum that your fire is no better than a painted flame and the thunder-cracks of your terrible Salmoneus no more to be feared then childrens rattles For so long as the Cocks set not vp their combes not affright with their crowing the howling of these night birds are but toies Or what cause is there why the Lions of Venice should be afraid of your fire who carrie about them Lilies an excellent remedie as Physitians write against the disease called Ignis sacer and not so alone but as Pliny writeth against the stinging of serpents and poison of mushromes Indeed I confesse the lightning of Gods seruants is not rashly to bee vilepended and yet there is no cause to stand in feare therof alwaies especially when as Vdalrichus Huttenus a knight of Germany writeth it proceedeth from Humane passion I tremble at the indignation of Christ I feare not the displeasure of the Pope and this is not Christs cause but the Popes quarrell These nets are not cast to catch soules but to draw in gold and siluer for seeing that the late Censure of Clement the Eight against the state of Ferrara thriued so well as to enlarge Peters patrimonie with an accesse of not a sew townes these Scarlet Fathers haue made them selues a promise that this against Venice shall speed as well But I wish them take heed lest Ill counsell fall heauiest on the giuers Iohan de Mandeuilla lib. 1 Venetians by their long continued trade with the Grecians may happely haue learned to answere Paul 5. to the same purpose as the Greekes sometimes did Iohn the two and twentieth Wee beleeue thy authoritie is within thy owne dominions supreme we can not indure thy pride which is extreamen we are not able to satiate thy Auarice The Diuell be with thee because God is with vs. Now therefore to returne from whence we haue digressed by the premises Baronius you may perceiue the vanitie and follie of that your exhortation which you annex vnto your Pope B Go on then a Gods name holy Father as you haue begun suppose not that no man can iustly tax your too much hastinesse c. For it had been your part first to haue proued the thing right and honest wherto you would lead him which failing to do you shall haue no thankes for your idle attempt in seeking to match Paul your Pope in equall termes with Paul the Apostle of the Gentiles much lesse to preferre him before and incite him as you do to proceed There is no delay can excuse much lesse commend that which originally was vniust nay rather the longer debated demurred the greater the fault in execution But this palpable flatterie makes me remember a worthie saying of Roderigo Bishop of Zamora In spec●ritae hum lib. 2. c. 3. The Pope though he hath all things a yet euermore stands in need of one thing viz. a faithfull Counsellor to tell him the trueth For from the highest vnto the lowest euerie one is giuen to sooth him vp they tell him smooth tales but all to deceiue him Cunningly they aduise him for their owne aduantage Fraudulently they supplicate to attaine their own wishes and for that flatterie is associate with guile as euery man can tell they combine among themselues like craftie companions as they bee not to crosse or thwart the one the other And as the scope of an Orator is to perswade the end of Physicke is to recure so the intent of a flatterer is to colour and deceiue The fowlers call is a pleasing note but the end is to deceiue the bird And as Ierome said once Poisons are giuen mixt with hony These are the men that make God and the Pope fellowes ascribing some Deitie vnto him But and if I mistake not the trueth the Popes should indeed heerein shew themselues like God if they would command such Varlets to the halter but out of all doubt true seruers of God if such coosining deceiuers were well punished for their paines So far that Bishop But that which I maruell at most of all is that Baronius a man who knoweth all things the skilfullest antiquarie in the Church stories that liueth the man who when first hee gaue his mind to write Genesed out of Terence set it downe as his principall intent and purpose that the lies he committed to the presse might finde acceptance with the vulgar sort that hee should set down so barsh a comparison of Paul the fift with Gregorie the Seuenth and Alexander the third wherof the first was the vilest Varlet that euer sate in that sea and the latter to bee detested for his intolerable pride B I for my part so you say do professe ingenuously that I reioice in my Spirit I will say with the Apostle I do ouerabound in ioy And let mee also speake in the Apostles wordes Act. 23. God shall smite thee thou painted wall that darest belch foorth of thy vnsanctified throat the wordes of so great an Apostle who as truly canst say with a pure conscience which hee once spake I vse great boldnesse of speech toward you 2. Cor. 7.4 I glorie greatly in you I am filled with comfort and am exceedingly ioyous in all our tribulation as thou canst those former words of the same Apostle I haue wronged no man I haue corrupted no man I haue defrauded no man when the words thou speakest these verie wordes are only to wrong to defraud to corrupt B But let vs heare the iust cause of this so supera bounding ioy * When I behold in my decrepit age Gregorie or Alexander in Peters chaire Heare ô you Kings hearken ô Princes giue eare ô Potentates of the Christian world by the testimonie of Caesar Baronius a Reuerend old man a sincere Cardinall an eie witnesse a man of credit Gregorie sitteth in Peters chaire not you must know Saint Gregory the first whose Christian speech this is I speake it with confidence Greg. in epist lib. 4 epist 30. whosoeuer he be that names himselfe or would be named vniuersall Bishop in that his pride hee sheweth himselfe the forerunner of Antichrist that aduaunceth himselfe beyond all equalls who calleth the Title of Vniuersall Bishop wherein the now Popes do so much glory a Swelling a new name a word of rashnesse See the 2. and 24. episties of the 4. and 6. booke Proud Pompaticall Peruerse Superstitious Prophane Impious a Name of Error of Singularity Vanitte Hypocrisie Blasphemie That Gregorie I say the first of his name who wrote with such reuerence of Arian Princes

Concerning the Excommunication of the Venetians A DISCOVRSE Against CAESAR BARONIVS Cardinall of the Church of ROME In which the true nature and vse of Excommunication is briefly and cleerly demonstrated both by Testimonies of Holy Scripture and from the old Records of Christs Church Written in Latine by NICOLAS VIGNIER and translated into English after the Copie printed at Samur 1606. Whereunto is added the Bull of Pope PAVLVS the Fift against the Duke Senate and Commonwealth of VENICE With the protestation of the sayd Duke and Senate As also an Apologie of Frier PAVL of the Order of Serus in VENICE LONDON Printed by M. B. for C. B. and are to be sold in Pauls Church-yard at the signe of the White-swan 1607. CAESAR BARONIVS his aduice vnto Pope PAVL the Fift to excommunicate the Venetians PEters office Holy Father is twofold To Feed and to Kill for the Lord said vnto him a Ioh. 21.15 Feede my sheepe and he heard a voice from heauen b Act. 10.13 Kill and Eat To Feede the sheepe is with care to watch ouer the faithfull and obedient Christians resembling Sheep and Lambes in all humility and religious piety When he hath to do not with Sheepe and Lambes but Lions and like beasts of fierce natures refractary stubborne and disobedient then Peter hath charge to Kill that is to resist fight against and root out such and that such killing should euer be in Charity he is willed to Eat that which he had slaine in effect through that Loue which he beares to them in Christ to lay them vp within him euen in his owne bowels that In Christ we may be c Galat. 3.28 one which is the Apostles owne saying d Philip. 1.8 I long after you in the bowels of Christ And so this killing is not Cruelty but Piety and syncere Charity When so by killing he saueth that which by being suffered so to liue had otherwise perished for euer And therefore as Pope Nicolas the first sheweth Excommunication is not a poison to kill but rather a e Potion Receit to recure And we see that a Father thinks well of those bands wherewith the Physitian hath bound his franticke sonne because he hopeth it will doe him good Go on then on Gods name most holy Father in your course begun and suppose not that any man can iustly tax your too great hastines in these proceedings That which S. Paul hath written to his brethren f 2. Cor. 10 6. the Corinthians that the Church is ready to reuenge all disobedience is a Command that the Church should bee forward to do it Your Holinesse happily hath beene too backward as yet not proceeding farther then to write For my owne part I professe I am glad and reioice in my spirit nay I will say with the Apostle I do g 2. Cor. 7.4 Ouer-abound in ioy seeing I see now in my h The man is about 68. years old Gregory 7. Hilachrand Alexander 3. Vide Plat. decrepit age to sit on Peters seat Gregory or Alexander the first two liuely roots from whence the dead Church-liberty began to reuiue both called from Siena the place from whence i Being named before his Papacy Camillo Borghese of Siena your Holinesse is extract to the Chaire of Peter Of which two the one gat the better of the Emperour k Henry the 4. Henry a most wilfull and peruerse man and the other by his incredible strange constancy vtterly vanquished l Frederick Barboros s a. Frederick Your Holinesse hath the like cause now in hand In your hands to borow the m Esay 3.6 Prophets words these ruines lie to reedifie the Liberty of the Church fallen downe deiected and laid low on the Earth Aduance with victory that attends you For God is with vs n Matth. 16.18 The gates of hell they be Christs wordes shall not preuaile against you You are placed in the Church Peters successor and haue the promise made to him Let corne be giuen them out of the rocke and as it is in the Prophecy of Ieremy I haue made thee a o Ier. 1.28 piller of iron and a wall of brasse Remember you are placed as p Esay 8 a rocke in the Church on which all that stumble shall be dashed in pieces But you shall continue without hurt ioined close and vnited vnto Christ who shall fight for you ouercome THE ANSWER OF NICOLAS VIGNIER vnto Caesar Baronius Nicolaus de Clamengis libro de ruina reparatione ecclae IT is an ancient speech vsed by one who was not vnacquainted with the dealings of Rome That were a Painter desirous to draw the picture of Pride his best course were to represent a Cardinall If a modest man and inwardly familiar with some Popes themselues had iust cause thus to write two hundred yeeres since how much more iustly doth it sute these times in which they want neither high-swelling wordes nor detestable impieties to effect and bring about their wicked designes Very lately there flew abroad into the world a certaine writing from Cardinall Baronius concerning the excommunicating the State of Venice directed vnto Pope Paul the fift In which the truth is so cleerly euidenced that though a man would deny the Sunne to shine at noone yet could hee not at all deny it So liuely and in such a plain sort doth the man paint out himselfe his Colleagues that in them you would sweare you saw Pride herselfe What leaueth he vndone or vnattempted to set vp his Iuppiter Capitoline an Idoll to be adorned in the place of Christ And what I pray you be his meanes Surely the same and no other whereby that Angell of darknesse deceiueth the simple counterfeiting himselfe an Angell of light For so crafty is that blood-sucker Sathan that he neuer appeareth in his natiue shape but putteth on the person of another So he assaied and deceiued Saul 1. Sam. 28.14 in apparition of graue and holy Samuel So seduced he Abab by the mouth of his Prophets 1. Reg. 22.22 So he drowned many of the Iewes in the Sea taking vpon him to lead them in the likenesse of Moses So in like sort at this day he exciteth and eggeth forward Paul the fift chiefe Bishop on earth Vicar of Christ Successor of Peter Prince of Prelates King of Kings Lord of Lords Father of Fathers head of the Church the essentiall forme of Iustice the Spouse of Christ the Christ of God as they instile him to commit murthers wage warres become an Incendiarie be the subuertor and ruiner of the state of Venice the most noble and auncient Common-wealth of the world and that in the person of a reuerend old man clad in scarlet robes a Cardinall of marke famous for learning pretending nothing but alone the word of God Peters office as you say Holy Father is twofold to Feed and to Kill Diuinitie not drempt of by our Predecessors Peters office is to Feed

Excommunication one of the parts of Church discipline the other being brotherly Correction is of two kindes The Lesser and the Greater The Lesse is that whereby such as grieuously offend against any point of faith or maners or good established order are excommunicate not so that absolutely they cease to bee the members of Christ but be only for a time restrained from communion of the Sacraments so long as vntill either their Repentance or Faith or Dutie bee iudged sufficient and publick scandall be taken away And such the * Ancients called Restrained Abstenti Cyprian in epistolis Excommunication the Greater is an holy action of Priesthood by which agreably to the rule of Christ a brother become obstinate in his sins is cut off from the fellowship of the faithfull cast out of the Church deliuered to Sathan that vpon correction he may repent and vpon true repentance be againe receiued which was vnder the law a casting forth out from the Synagogue So by authoritie and warrant of Christ to excommunicate is a power belonging vnto all Math. 18. and none but the True Church to be executed by the whole Presbyterie lawfully elected to bee denounced in the open face of the assembly with their either tacit or expresse consent This is proued by the words of Christ If he will not heare the Church that is the Presbytery and conuention of Elders let him be to thee as an Ethnicke a Publicane The Apostle is yet more cleare in this point 1. Cor. 5. When you are gathered together and my spirit in the name of our Lord Iesus Christ let such a one be deliuered vnto Sathan In which place he speaketh vnto the whole Church as again he doth 2. Cor. 2. It is sufficient that this man hath beene censured by many And therfore he intreateth that with one consent they receiue againe him who had beene excommunicate And this is the doctrine and * consent of all fathers What This if he meane by the Presbyterie as he calleth it The Church practise doctrine of the fathers is to the contrary as in Cyprians epistles any man may read Wherof the reason is very euident that matters of greatest consequence in the church are not to be proceeded in without consent and approbation of the * Either tacite or expresse as before whole Church as the practise is in ciuill states and affaires For that wherein euerie one is interessed it was the saying of Pope Leo must haue the generall consent of all And what of more consequence wherein can the whole bodie be more interessed than in the cutting of one member from the bodie The conclusion therefore is No man ought to bee excommunicate without the generall assent of the whole Church in which he liueth And that Austen was of this minde it is euident by this that he thinketh that man should not be excommunicated who hath many abetters and bearers out in his offence with whom many do partake and are associate in sinne reioycing in their follies insulting on the godly despising the sword of Excommunication lest it proue the originall of a Schisme and of this mind saith he the Apostle was His wordes are To this purpose the Apostle speaketh If any one be named August Contra epistolam Parmen lib. 3. In that he saith If any one it seemeth his meaning was that such a man might safely be put vnder censure and for his good who is a sinner among such as be none that is as be not infected with the taint of like enormity And where he saith be named hee letteth vs therby vnderstand it is not inough that a man be so vnlesse withall he be named to be so that is notoriously knowen and diffamed that all men may prooue and giue their consent to the sentence of excommunication throwen foorth against him For thus the bond of peace may bee kept correction bee done vpon him he be striken not to kill him be seared but to cure him To this end hee saith of that man whom by such receit hee would haue to bee cured The Rebuke of many is sufficient for him Because such rebuke cannot be auaileable but where one is rebuked who hath not a multitude his fellowes in sinne but if the infection be gone ouer many the godly can do nothing but sorrow and grieue Now for the persons liable to this censure All and Only they who being in the list of brethren continue in sin with contumacy Only brethren because that Of forreiners God doth iudge and not the Church as the Apostle speaketh 1. Cor. 5. and such as neuer had any cōmiunion cannot be cut off from communion with the Church which they neuer had Again adde the stubbornly wilfull not others for them or with them Because euery man must beare his owne burthen And Austen doth in this point deseruedly blame Auxilius a yong man Aug. Epist 75. If by his own iudgement allegation out of Austen for peril of schism excommunication must not bee inflicted on a multitude if for nothing else yet in that regard the censuring of greate ones gods on earth should not so easilie haue passed his lippes Azarias did not excommunicate Vsziah but told him his duty as the minister of God Neither did they compell him to hasten out but God did it and had they done it this was no excommunication 2. Paral. 26. Theodoret. lib. 5. Hist Eccles ca. 18. S. Ambrose is the only example that can with probability be alleadged But there is very much difference betweene his maner of proceeding and the Popes in his consistory and the Ministers with their elders Read the story in Theodoret. Hist Eccles ca. 17. ex interpr Christophorsani and somewhat elderly Bishop as he speaketh because that for the sole offence of Classianus he did excommunicate his whole family And it is against All that No man of whatsoeuer state or condition Ecclesiasticall or Ciuill Superior or Inferior may thinke himselfe exempted from that censure The truth hereof is certaine by practise in Scripture as for instance Azarias the high Priest cast foorth king Ozias out of the Temple by practise in the prime age of the Christian Church when as Ambrose excommunicated Theodosius an act allowed of by all Churches and so well liked by Theodosius himselfe that he professed to haue met with but one Bishop in deed Ambrose at Millane The causes which procure it are sins of Commission done without amendment against either First or Second Table That appeareth by Christ his words Mat. 18. where he mentioneth Ethnicks Transgressors of the First and then Publicanes delinquents against the Second table To which there in the 12. of Exodus where there is charge giuen that no Vncircumcised person and in that an offendor against the first Table be admitted to the Passeouer and secondly 1 Cor. 5.8 no Iew who had Leuen in his house which leauen the Apostle doth interpret of mal tiousnesse and vncleane life