in a good sense â—ay becalled a Parish one ordinarie assembly as I have said The true Grammar sense and proper meaning of the worde Ecclesia in those times doth proove it What Divinitiâ— shall we expect from these Doctors whâ— will pervert Grammar Which ouâ— Doctor is not ignorant of but his error heerein is wilfull All sound †See my Declarat pag. 18 32. Autors of the Greek toung according to whom the Apostles do speak do shew that Ecclesia in the times then and alwayes before signifyed one ordinarie Congregation only and not many His fift error heere is that the New Testament noteth some Churches not defining whether an intire church or but a part And he citeth Act. 9.31 and 15. 3.4.41 and 18.22 Rom. 16.16.23.1 Cor. 4.17 and 6.4 and 11.16 and 14.33 with a great many other But all these are likewise by him grosly abused For in all these places the Scripture speaketh intirely properly not by a figure whereof there is no cause appearing in the text Only in Act. 15.4 the Church signifieth a part namely the People because the text expresly distinguisheth it heere froÌ„ their Guids who were a part also Thus in all the whole Writings of the Apostles there is not one word which sheweth a Diocesan Church to have ben then Wherefore in this point hee is quite overthrowen The D. perverteth his text on which his Sermon Defense resteth yea his very text Apoc. â— 20 which was the whole foundation of his Sermon and Defence is found to bee vtterly perverted and abused togeather with the other places So that all which be buildeth vpon it followeth in his writing after is nothing but cavillation And namely that against my selfe in his pag. 6. where hee saith I have first strongly conceited that there is no true Visible Church but a Parish then have haled the places of scripture where Ecclesia is mentioned to the confirmation of my conceit Let him not abuse people as hee doth by the Equivocation of the word Parish For I meane not that the Apostolike Churches were Parishes as we cal a Parish now in England that is limited within a certaine circuit of grounde Though a Church may be so limited yet it is not necessarie neither was it so then But then every Church was such a Parish as I noted a little “ Pag. 201. Declar. pag. 18.19 Reas. for ref pa. 5.29 before And so it is very true Then why saith hee that I have first conceited that there is no true Visible Church but a Parish He might have seene it conceited before me by those noble and sacred instrumentes †Before pag. 103.104 32. c. And after pag. 214.215 Zuinglius Luther the rest of our Attestators But malice drave him against me as it hath driven him against me in other slanders likewise Wherefore rather he might have said that in this not I If in this the Scripture be haled Zuinglius hath don it c. but they have haled the Scripture from whom I have learned it But I hope those worthies knew the meaning of the Greek Ecclesia better then our Doctor though hee be conceited enough of his owne learning and they maintained it prosperouslie against stronger adversaties then hee â—is or ever will bee But in deed hee ought to blush to charge mee in this case with haling the Sciptures Him selfe haler of Scripture when him selfe is thus found to hale them and pervert them most vnconscionably as before is shewed He is often vpon this “ Def. 2.104.65 that the Church of Cenchreae Rom. 16.1 was a Membrall Church to the Church of Corinth and subiect to it But I have †Declarat pag. 30. els-where shewed this his presumptioÌ„ in taking the Apostles words figuratively here also without cause As if the Apostle called but a part of a Church by the name of a Church there being no reason in the text why he should heere speak Synecdochically Nay to take the Apostle so is coÌ„trarie even to his owne rule I will presse him with his owne wordes I would know of him what reason hee hath to forsake the grammaticall sense “ Def. 1. pag. 33. And where the Holy Ghost speaketh properly how dares be to expound him figuratively Heere I could leave of this point concerning his proofes from the New Testament for Diocesan Churches But that hee †Chap. â— resumeth Rev. 1.20 which was his text and laboureth to make shew of some reason therein First hee saith “ Pag. 42.43.44 those 7. Churches contayned the Cities and Countryes adioyning This is his Minor Which is not only contrarie to the propertie of the word Ecclesia before noted but also coÌ„trary to the expresse text beside which saith this Ephesian Church was 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 in Ephesus Rev. 2.1 not without nor contayning that large Country Territorie adioying as he saith it did then The like the text saith of the Church in Smyrna and of the Church in Pergamus and so of all the rest Signifying expresly that every of these Churches was contayned at least when they met within their Cities His shifting heereabout pag. 105 is nothing And that of â—â—keniÌ„g 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 to it is as little For Act. 24.12 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 is in the City and did not extend it selfe to the CouÌ„try adioyning viz. to the Civill Province of each of them This reason therfore of his is very vntrue Yet he would fortifie it further “ Pag. 43.56 assuming againe that Our Saviour writing to all the Churches of Asia nuÌ„breth but seaven If hee wrote to all then it may seeme that these 7. were generall Churches contayning in and vnder them many other inferior Congregations For it is not like but in Asia properly so called which was the Roman Province and †Cicer. Orat pro L. Flacco contayned Phrygia Mysia Caria Lydia there were moe ordinarie Christian Congregations then only 7. at that time Nay it is plainly false our Saviour heere writ not to all the Churches of Asia The text beside mentioneth “ Act. 20.7 Troas †Colos 4.13 Colossâ— Hierapolis which were questionles within these â—â—undes Magnesia Trallis in all likeâ—â—hood were now also Mentioned in Ignatius Epist and were no â—embers now of any of those seaven 〈◊〉 the Revelation And it is more then â—â—kely that many other besides these â—â—â—ere named were also Indeed Christ â—â—ould that all within Asia yea out â—f Asia too should exemplarily take â—dmonition by this which he writeth â—etsonally directly to these seaven â—one which is all that he meaneth in â—hose wordes “ Rev. 2 1â— Let him that hath an eare â—eare what the Spirit saith to the Churches â—ut this is nothing to proove that all â—hese other Churches were MeÌ„bers subâ—ect to those seaven Yet two reasons â—â—ore “ Chap. 4. he hath One is
this †Pag. 65. The Apoâ—les appointed Ministers to whole Cities and Countryes adioyning to labor so far as they â—ere able the conversion of all True What â—hen Therefore they appointed them â—o stande Ministers still to whole Ciâ—ies and Countryes adioyning I deny â—his consequence It is a plaine fallacie â—b eo quod est secundum quâ—d Fallaciâ— ad simpliciter 〈◊〉 pray Sir when Logike fayleth you play not the Sophister The Apostles appointed Ministers to convert what they could in great Cities and Countries adioyning yea and in the whole “ Math. 13.33 world but not to stand Ministers Pastors to all them when they should be converted But only according tâ— the order and forme of a Church seâ— downe in the New Testament Which representeth to vs each Ordinarie Congregation as an entire Church Wherefore they might not remayne as Pastors to all when all were converted because so Ordinarie Pastors after the time of the New Testament should become substantially contrary to the ordinary Pastors constituted in the New Testament It i Ì„s blasphemie to avouch that the Apostles intended the Churches forme should be substantially coÌ„trary to that which is in the New Testament Which certainly was never the Apostles intent it is no lesse then blasphemie for any that will persist in saying the Apostles intended so You will aske how are Pastors so large and so generall contrary substantially to Pastors of but one ordinarie Congregation I answer they are substantially coÌ„trary in that these may and do admit the Christian peoples free consent in Church governement the other can not these caÌ„ personally administer to their whole flocke they possibly can not but by Substitutes and Curates as wee call them For there the proper Pastors them selves are of necessitie must be grand Pluralistes and NoÌ„residents Which plainly are substantiall differences in Pastors Besides that the one can execute a whole and intire Pastorall Office the other can not c. as “ Declarat Pag. 12.13.14 15 16. â— els-where I have more fully declared His 2. reason is this †Def. 2.69 In the Apostles times the Churches were not divided into Parishes â—or Presbyters assigned to their several Cures Therefore then a Church was not a Paâ—ish I answere Heere againe hee doth nothing but Equivocat Let him vnderstand a Parish in that sense as before have defined it Pa. 204.205 and so I affirme that by the very Apostles the Churches were divided into severall Parishes That is â—ach Church was it selfe a distinct Paâ—ish and severally divided from all oâ—her Also the Presbyters then were assigned to their severall cures viz. to these Parishes or Churches But if hee â—ake a Parish as it is a Congregation liâ—ited within a certaine circuit of â—round and as a Dioces is subdivided â—nto many of them as they are now so â—ve speake not of them Yet commonly â—r altogeather †Pag. 77. hee doth so speake of â—hem Wherefore heere every man may â—â—e his vanitie Hee doth fly the true â—uestion and shufleth in things that â—e never intended Then his grosse vnâ—ruth vnschollerlike assertion ought 〈◊〉 bee marked where he saith “ Pag 75. The â—ord Ecclesia is of a larger extent then to sigâ—â—fy only one assembly I appeale to all auâ—entike Greeke Authors Thucidides Deâ—osthenes Plato Aristotle Isocrates c. Out â—f whom plentifull allegations may be brought all of them shewing that this word Ecclesia did evermore signifie only one assembly and never a dispersed multitude holding many ordinary set meetings in far remote places as Diocesan and larger Churches do Now according to these and other Greekes living in the Apostles dayes doe the Apostles speake And this I have heeretofore often “ Reas. for ref pag 64. Declarat pag 31. 32. above pa. 110. propounded and affirmed as a principall ground and cause of our dissent from the Church state in England And the ground is certain it can not be with reason spoken against The D. heere †Pag. 14. 15. putteth in to the contrary the vse of the word Ecclesia in Eusebius who vseth it to signify sometimes a Diocesan and Provinciall Church Hee doth so sometimes I deny it not And so after him the Fathers do vse the word likewise as Epiphanius Theodoret Chrysostome and the Councilles and Historie writers c. All this we know well But what have wee to doe with these Authors so late and so partiall as these all were touching the exposition of the Greeke word Ecclesia The time that Eusebius wrote in When Eusebius wrote was about 340. yeares of Christ or little lesse All the rest wrote after him At which time or before viz. presently vnder Constantine the outward forme of the Church did so alter and change from that vnder the Apostles even in substantiall points of Church politie or in such points as did come neere to the substance of it that it appeared outwardly to be allmost not the same And as the state of the Church altered so the Fathers and Councills which were then much affecting that state did alter the old vse of â—he words pertaining to these matters As they practised so likewise they spake and wrote And so have most men followed after them Wherby at the last Antichrist was vndoubtedly advanced But our noble “ Our Attestators before mentioned specially pag. 104. after pag. 214. forefathers of late having discovered this mysterie of iniquitie have found out also the corruption depravation even of this word Ecclesia which hath ben extended larger and farther then Apostolically it was The which abuse of this very word doubtles was a pregnant reason and meanes among other to extend the Church and Governement thereof to that Vniversalitie which it came to and is still vehemently chalenged by the Catholiks Wherefore great cause have we ad originem reverti to go backe even vp to the first originall and beginning as Cyprian well adviseth vs. For so saith he cessat error humanus thus and not otherwise error which hath begun from men will cease Wherefore wee must refuse Eusebius Epiphanius Theodoret and all either in or after their times for iudges or interpreters of matters or words specially touching Church-governement The forme whereof inclined toward alteration yea somewhat before them as wee may perceave in “ Can 6. Nic. Concilâ— through Humane ambition and desyre of greatnes which is incident even to the godliest best men But vnder Constantin and after it degenerated much more Wherfore in “ See before pa. 125. 127. conscience to God and to his blessed word we must leave all men when they so palpably differ from the Scripture as in this cause they doe cleave only and vnseparably to the plaine and †Math 22.29 Ioh. 5.39.40 Isa 8.20 proper writing of Christs Testament Hee “ In his chap. 5. indeavoureth to make voide some of our reasons against Diocesan Churches vnder
litle after If you would be further taught that a generall Councill is neither the Vniversall Church nor representeth the Vniversall Church c we can send you to a merchant of the same stampe that your selves are of where you shall see as much as I say debated commended with no small braverie Pigh hierarch lib 6. cap 5. 4. I graunt this man in an other place is “ Perp. gov pag. 370. 371. 372. contrarie to this But that is no newes in him For I know nothing almost which is controverted but if hee affirme it in one place he denyeth it in another As touching the Scriptures which he produceth for his warrant they are the same which D. Downame also “ Def. 2.4 meÌ„tioneth are often alleadged by many men at random For God knoweth they come nothing neare to the purpose The textes are Math. 18.17 Act. 15.22 Both which indeed are to be taken properly and literally and not improperly and figuratively as they in an idle imagination do think Their imagination I say heerein is idle because they have no reason for them in the world requiring that this word Ecclesia heere should be figurative Which is ground “ D. Down Def. â— 33 enough for vs and assurance also that it ought heere to be vnderstood as proper Besides those two Doctors are both learned in the Greeke toung Let them shew that this word was ever vsed by any good Author living in the Apostles times or before for a Confistorie of Governors only or els they ought to acknowledge they speake idly and vntruly If no such place can be shewed as I am very sure there can not shal we thinke the Apostles spake and wrote Greeke in such a phrase as none in all the world ever spake either before or in their dayes What absurditie and vnconscionable presumptioÌ„ were it so to thinke I know they and others do alleage som Greek Fathers that do take the word Ecclesia sometime for the Governours only But those Fathers lived 300. yeres after the time of writing the New Testament and later Now the Aposties framed not their laÌ„guage to the maner of speaking so longe after their owne age Many and great alterations were come in by that time by reason whereof their speach began much to alter also And we following them must needes Equivocat Some pointes therein I noted “ Reaâ— for â—ef pag. 4â— 64. â—5 herefore but our adversaties will not remember nor consider that The effect of al that I say is this Eusâ—bius beodoret Epiphanius Chrysostome and such other of those times are not our Apostles nor maisters of our faith nor equall interpreters of the true Apostles chiefâ—y in the matter of Church governement There was to much iniquitie to much anomie entered then and increased still afterward till Antichrist him selfe stood vp which was anon after â—n such case therfore let vs retire our selves as we are commaunded to the plaine and vnpartiall and syncere evidence of Christs Law and Testimonie if any speake not according this word it is because there is no light in them Sure the vniversad sense and meaning of this Greeke word Ecclesia in all pure and vncorrupt times is to signifie the whole Assemblie even the people evermore togeather wâ—th their Guides vnles their state were such that they had no Guides as at some instant happily the case might be But alwayes it signifyed the people and those asseÌ„bling together in one place Which also is the proper signification of the Latin word Concio and nothing els Concio is the iust expositioÌ„ of Ecclesia It were madnes therefore to go from the native proper sense of the Apostles wordes without cause And if the Humane Politike reasons where with Doct. Bilson “ Perp. gov pa. 370. 372. 374. 376. flourisheth were warrant for vs without Christs worde to erect such a spirituall governement as is in absolut Synods over Christendome besides that then Mens Traditions and politike inâ—entions may be receaved as spiritual instruments in the worke of the salvation of our soules which impietie I thought all good Christians had long since abhorred moreover a plaine direct way is opened for a Vniversall Papacie and for a Vniversall consistorie of Cardinalls to be placed over all Christes people I say the Humane reasons alleadged do inforce this as well yea much better then that each Christian Nation should be ordinarily left to them selves and not bee ruled Spiritually by some one generall ordinarie Superior by whom all in al Countries may be reduced to vnitie This might easily bee adorned with moe flowers of Rhetoâ—â—ke then hee there doth or can set vpon his matter Againe over besides this there is an other plaine Logical coÌ„sequence which will induce a Pope if any Representative Church bee acknowledged to be of Divine institution in the New Testament For if any Representative Church bee in the New Testament of Divine institution then such a Provinciall Representative Church is Nay then a Vniversal representative Church is of Divine institution in the New Testament ArepreseÌ„tâ—tâ—ve Church By a representative Church I meane the Guides one or moe having power to exercise Spiritual governemÌ„et without any consent of the people Which also is a Church figuratively viz. by a Syneedoche And this all men agree vnto Againe if a Vniversall representative Church be of Divine institution in the new Testament then a Vniversall church represented or such a proper Church whereof the figurative is a figure and a representation is of Divine institution also in the New Testament This sequence is of “ Relativa fuut simul Arâ—stoâ— infallible truth Some have thought the figurative Vniversall Church viz. the Vniversall Synod may represent not one Vniversall proper Church but a nomber of particular independent Churches But this is vntrue impossible as any shall see that wel considereth it As for our present adversaries they do acknowledge maintaine the effect of this Sequence at least they say it in plaine termes D. Bilson teacheth that Christ hath “ Perp. gov pa. 372. 377 one Church in generall which is a whole having all particular Churches partes to be ruled by the whole and that this one whole or generall Church is the body of Christ. Doct. Downame expreslie saith †Def. 3.4 the whole Church is but one body Thus in plaine termes they acknowledge and teach as I said One proper Church Vniversall vnder outward governement What meaning they have heerein God knoweth Now from hence I reason further If one Vniversall proper Church subiect to out ward governement bee of Divine institution in the New Testament then a Vniversall ordinarie Pastor is of Divine institution in the New Testament This consequence though in truth it be vndenyable and inevitable yet they in wordes deny it with vehemence without sense reason D. Downame saith Defenc. 1.17 and 3.4.6 He is Antichrist that assumeth to him selfe the governement
of the Vniversal Church which yet he acknowledgeth is to be governed out wardly M. Gabr. Powell like a wise maÌ„ maketh it an heresie in the Pope to holde as he doth †Gabr. Powel de Antichristo pag. 254. In Eccesia oportere esse Visibile caput That in the Visible Church there ought to be a visible head What do I heare A visible Body instituted by Christ without a Visible Head A Church and no Pastor A multitude to be governed and no Governor These are strange assertioÌ„s who soever how many soever do affirme theÌ„ For I graunt there are not a few others also which vse so to speake But in deed there is no colour of truth nor reason in these sayings Some will say D. “ Perp. gov pag. 372. Bilson D. †Def. 3.4 Downame both do shew that this one Body and Church Vniversall is to be governed by a Vniversall Synod Do they so Very well Then who shall call this Synod The calling of Provinciall Synods “ Perp. gov pa. 377 39â— they make a good reason for a Metropolitane or Archbishop Certainly the calling of a Vniversall Synod doth far better and more necessarily require a Pope A Vniversal Synod ablosute Nay â—t requireth a Pope certainly Besides it is a question whether a Vniversall Synod hath ever ben or can possibly â—e rightly and duly had At the most it is plaine that such Synodes are exceeding rare and seldom and hardly effected Math. 18.15.16.17 But the causes of the Churches governement are frequent continuall and every day What shall we thinke Hath Christ left his Body deare Spouse without helpe without governement in such dayly and continuall necessities Or can an ordinarie body be governed without an ordinarie Head To vse D. Bilsons words “ Perp. gov pag. 376. this were an heathenish if not a hellish confusion Wherefore these consequences all do follow certainly and necessarilie A Vniversall Church must have a Vniversall ordinarie Pastor And so much touching the Proposition of this reason My Assumption is this But no Vniversall Ordinarie Pastor is of Divine institution in the New Testament And this they all affirme with me constantly Therefore the Conclusion is true viz No Vniversall proper Church and consequently also no Vniversall nor any other representative Church is of Divine institution in the New Testament Hitherto I have shewed our reasons and witnesses against Synods exercising absolut power spirituall over ChristiaÌ„ people which are also churches representative To which busines I have ben forced by Do. Downames importunat flannders both generally against vs and against my selfe in particular Who heerein first compareth vs to the “ Def. 1 4â— Pope from whom he knoweth we are far enough of Where as indeed his absolut Synods do agree with the Pope too well and do make to much for him as †Pag. 110.111 112.113.114 before we saw Then he vpbraideth vs that wee will not be ruled by Synodes I answer Wee submit our selves to be ruled spiritually by Christes true visible Church instituted in his word And what would he have more Thirdly hee goeth about to deny that we subject our selves to the Kings Supremacie Whether hee doth this with more malice or foolishnes I know not For he can not be ignorant that though we affirme that the Church governement is independent and immediatly derived from Christ yet we affirme also it standeth with good reason that the Civil Magistrate is even therein Supreme Governor Civilly And though nothing may be imposed on the Christian people of a Congregation against their wills by any Spirituall authoritie for so only we intend yet we affirme withall that the Civill Magistrat may impose on them Spirituall matters by Civill power yea whether they like or dislike if hee see it good This we al gladly acknowledge Wherein we referre our selves to that which we have “ Petit. for toleration Offer c. publikly written protested in this behalfe Fourthly he falsly chargeth me by name that I in my booke of Reasons for reformation do not acknowledge in Synods any lawfull authoritie †Def. 3.4 to determine He might “ Perp. gov pa. 382.383 thus charge Doctor Bilson But I in that booke and place which hee wrangleth with do expresly say †Reas. for reform p. 31 Synods determinations are most expedient and wholesome alwayes In which respect I “ See before pag. 89. allow also the Apostles practise in Act. 15. as being both a Synod and an authentike rule and patterne for Synods Where the Apostles with others when an occasion cause was given them did not only meet togeather consult but also they did define determine and decree certain pointes yea they delivered the same to divers Churches to be kept who had no Deputies for them present in that Apostolike assembly Howbeit these Apostles delivered abroad these their Decrees only so and in such wise as informing and teaching all men thereby what they ought to do that is in maner of doctrine To the Church of Antioch whom it most concerned only this they say If ye observe these things “ Act. 15.29 ye shall do well They say not The Minister that imbraceth not these ordinaÌ„ces is deprived of his ministerie the person receyving them not is excommunicat ipso facto or he is Anathema accursed As some Synods do pronounce I grant Synods may discusse and determine of errors and may pronounce them wicked and accursed errors But actually excommunicat mens persons the Apostles never did without the concurrence and consent of that Congregation where they were members Wherefore more then this no Synod at anie time may do by the rule of the Gospell If any do impose any of their acts on a CoÌ„gregation whether they like or dislike vpon pavne of some spirituall censure yea if it be on anie one person without the same Congregations consent of which hee is certainly as I said it is more then the Apostles ever did in the Church-governement and therefore we can not out conclude that it is now vnlawful for vs so to do Also it is that point which all the forenoted sentences of those late Writers most excellent lights of the Gospell do condemne Wherefore we willingly take that Apostolike practise in Act. 15. both as being a Synod also a good patterne of Synods for ever Neither do wee in deed mislike any Christian Synods but greatly approve of them though some out of malice do obiect to vs the contrary Alwayes the Apostles practise we take for our rule And so much touching the second coÌ„sequent in this Chapter Thirdly it being admitted as Christs ordinance that the Church governement ought to bee alwayes with the peoples free coÌ„sent it followeth that Lord Bishops in severall are vnlawfull contrarie to Christ Now a Lord Bishop Who is a Spirituall Lord. and a Spirituall Lord we alwayes vnderstand him to be who exerciseth sole authoritie
cut off and excommunicate from the Church of Rome hee could not after that have any power as derived from them to make Ministers nor to do any other Bishoplie act Secondly wee all knowe the Church of Rome to be the very Antichrist chieflie in respect of their Clergie and Spirituall governement and most chieflie of all in respect of the Pope from whom all the rest as from the Head doe take their power and authoritie Now shall we say that very Antichrist can have power from Christ to make Ministers Or that we can have a lawfull Ministerie derived from those who had their power only from him It can not bee “ 2. Cor. 6.14 15. What communion hath light with darknes What concord hath Christ with Belial And so what hath Christ to do with Antichrist Nothing at all Thus then our consciences can have no assurance wee can not have confidence in such estate of the Ministerie But certainly Christs true Ministers among vs in Englande have a better Original thē this Wherefore this answere of our State Protestants must needes be false Yet in this answer who seeth not how the Papistes do reioyce triumph and insult Who seeth not how by this they are incouraged strengthened and multiplyed among vs exceedingly Truly it would pity a mans heart to beholde how this one point putteth life into thousandes to stande vp against Christes Gospell the libertie of their Country also For when they heare our selves openly to ascribe to the Church of Rome and to their meanes such a gift of grace even that which is our glory even the holy instrument of our faith to salvatiō for so is our Ministerie they will say if the branch be holy the root is more if the rivers be sweet the head-spring is delicious And so how can it bee chosen but the Papistes thus will bee graced and get great advātage among vs Many heere have another refuge but that also helpeth nothing Say they as Popish Baptisme is so far acknowledged by vs The last refuge of our Adversaries taken away as that with it only wee are held to bee sufficiently Baptised not to need Baptizing againe when we com from them to the Church of England So likewise wee may acknowledge the Popish Ordination to the Ministerie thus far and yet nevertheles cōdemne their Church and separate from them I answere the case is nothing like betweene Baptisme the signe of our initiation in Christ and the Calling to the Ministerie In the word there is expresse warrant for not repeating the signe of our initiation in Christ which of old was Circumcision and Baptisme now is the same though ministred by a false Ministerie and Church As wee may see in the “ 2. Chron. 30.11.18 35.17.18 Ez◠6.21 not Recircumcising of such Iewes as had receaved that signe in the Apostasie of Israell and turned frō thesame to the truth But there is no warrant at all in Gods word for any to retaine the outward Calling to the Ministerie or to stand in that power and authoritie which is derived from such a Church There is no such thing can be shewed in all Gods booke Therefore we may not conclude the like in this matter of Ordination to the Ministerie which may bee done for not repeating of Baptisme For by Gods worde Ordination may be repeated yea certainly after a Ministerie receaved in Christes true Church much more after it hath ben receaved in a false Church So that these two ordinances of Christ are nothing like in this point Wherefore out of question Ordination to the Ministerie as it is derived from Antichrist must be wholy reuounced of every faithfull man and may bee as is said renewed and repeated in Christes true Church as occasion serveth At Rome there is in it both an impiety and a nullitie In their administring of Baptisme there is not a nullitie altogeather as in that correspondent example of Israell in Apostasie before alleadged it well appeareth And this is sufficient for this though other answeres may be given also Wherefore this remayneth that when wee grant the descent of our Ministerie in Englande to come lineally from the Church and Pope of Rome which we must grant will wee nill we if wedeny it to arise essentially from the Christian peoples consent in each Congregation all the world seeth that we give the Pope a maine advantage against vs and we put into his hande a strong engine to draw vs back againe vnto him Which also he effecteth dayly vppon many among vs as woefull experience sheweth in our Land yea even vpon some of my very friends and neare acquaintance Beside this there is another point of the Churches governement The causing of Vnitie namely their Iurisdiction in cōpounding Schismes in making peace and vnitie and consent among Christian people which beeing ascribed as proper to Diocesan and Provinciall Bishops as they in England do say it is and as “ Def. 3.36 c. D. Downame with great vehemencie defendeth certainly true reason will cary it further it can not possibly stay there This wil serve a Popes turne a great deale better and to such a one it belongeth in deed as a very true and forcible ground for his Vniversall Governement over all Christians in the world if there were any Divine and Evangelicall truth in it at all But there is no truth in it Because this is no Divine and Evangelical way for Vnitie in religion viz. to constitute one Visible Head with absolute power of Spirituall governement whether Diocesan or Provinciall or Vniversall Or to take from the Christian people their free consent There is not in the Gospell any such Meanes to Vnitie It is a Humane policie a carnall device it is no institution of Christ Iesus Gods writt◠word is the cause of Vnitie Who in his word and by his word with the helpe of the Ministerie therein ordained provideth sufficiently for true peace and holy Vnitie among all his people For he saith “ Mat. 28.29 Ye erre not knowing the Scriptures And †Ioh. 5.39 Search the Scriptures for they are they which testifie of me And “ chap. 14.6 Rom. 16 17. I am the way the truth and the life Likewise the Apostle testifyeth that those are the makers of Schismes and divisions who teach and holde any thing besides the doctrine learned from the Apostles So that indeed the meanes appointed of GOD to make Vnitie in the Church is Gods word and not one Superiour over-ruling Minister over many distinct ordinarie Cōgregations which the word knoweth not But in truth such a one is the very proper cause of dissention and schisme For he not willing to submit to Gods word by his power draweth many with him yet he cannot lightly prevayle with all Wherevpon followeth dissention and schisme And then he with his cōpany being the stronger in the world may cry out loudest against those fewer that dissent from him that they are
otherwise heere as indeed it is Beside I remeÌ„ber not above “ 1 Cor. 12.28 which is not ofteâ— one such place as he signifyeth and yet there it is in the plural nomber 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 powers not in the singular Betweene which place and ours in hand there is apparantly very great difference Againe he saith To deliver vnto Sathan is more then to Excommunicate It is not Yea him selfe held so likewise †Against the Semina part 3. pag. 58. heeretofore He which is excommunicat and as a Heathen is out of Christes Kingdom And being out of Christes Kingdome he is in the power of Satan Therefore it is all one Neither is it true that many are secluded from the company of the godly for a time that are not yeelded to Satan or that many were delivered to Sathan by the Church assembled togeather as this was don heere without Excommunication Or that Ananias and Elymas were delivered to Satan Which him selfe “ Against the Seminar part 3. pag. 53 54. once contradicted He toucheth heere many thinges beside to no purpose viz. This Sinner was delivered to Satan that it might bring him to repentance Why and that is the proper end of Excommunication Againe the end of this action was the destruction of the flesh which in Excommunication hath no sense except it bee Metaphoricall It is not so This destruction of the flesh viz. the lustes of the flesh hath great sense in Excommunication And it seemeth rather a Metonymicall phrase then a Metaphoricall as he nameth it He addeth Excommunication indangereth the Spirit and toucheth not the flesh Nay it is intended to save the Spirit that is the Regenerat man by repentance So the Spirit is †1. Cor. 5.5 heere vnderstoode Also Excommunication toucheth the flesh for it serveth to huÌ„ble and mortifie the lustes of the flesh or the vnregenerat man Hee saith this is dome not by Excommunication but by repentance Strangely spoken I say it is done by both For these are Subordinat not opposit As well hee might say the lustes of the flesh are not destroyed by Gods worde but by repentance The truth of both is alike Here also the one of it selfe is no consequent to the other For many are preached vnto that never repent aswellas Excommunicated that never repent And yet who knoweth not that God hath ordained that repentance should follow froÌ„ both as it doth indeed in many Who would not wonder to see such dallying in such a man in a cause so serious The like is also where hee saith Excommunication is before and after in other wordes expressed Yea and this is not against our sense of Delivering to Sathan but much for it Seeing all the CircuÌ„stances coherence of the text heere both before and after speake only of Excommunication and the phrase it selfe to deliver to Satan is so fit and agreeable to expresse the same even according to Christes description of it “ Mat. 18.17 Let him be to thee as a Heathen that is without the Church Christs Kingdome vnder the power and rule of Satan in like state and coÌ„dition as the very infidelles and vnbeleevers are This therefore is much for vs. But saith he †Pag. 100. This is no such new founde or vaine exposition Chrysostome Ierome Ambrose Theodoret Occumenius Theophilact c. embrace it Wonderfull This opinion and these very testimonies hee cited “ Against the Semin part 3. pag 54.56 heeretofore as beeing the Papistes Then he * Pag â—5 resisted refuted the samâ— at large by †Ambr. in 1 Cor. 5. Ambrose “ August in queâ—t vet nov Test 49. Austin and †Ierom ad Hiliod ad Râ—par Ierome insinuating that this “ Ierom. in 1. Cor. 5. Ierome which now he grouÌ„deth on which then the Papistes alleaged was a couÌ„terfait or suspected at least Is this fidelitie is this vpright dealing For advaÌ„tage to ioyne with the Antichristian Enemies yea against him selfe to allow of the self same witnes which him selfe then branded with infamie opposing Chrysostome to Chrysostome Ierome to Ierome Ambrose there to Ambrose heere and which passeth interpreting the same wordes of Theodoret contrarie heere to that hee did “ Pag. 59. there What mutabilitie is this But to the point I answer This his sense out of Chrysostome c. heere can not be true viz. that this delivering to Satan was to be tormented corporally by Satan For then the whole Church of Corinth had this miraculous power given theÌ„ at Pauls appointement They were then the visible instrumentall doers of this Apostolike Miracle in Pauls behalfe Also then the Apostles had power and did vse to strike men whom they never saw nor spake with beeing far from them in other countries All which how absurd they are who seeth not Againe this Sinners “ 2. Cor. 2. restoring was without Miracle his casting out therefore was so likewise Neither can it be thought that “ 1. Tim. 8.20 Paul corporally tormented †Pag. 103. Hymenaus and Alexander He only excommunicated them and yet not he alone but with the Churches concurrence and consent whereof they were For so was his practise in other actions of Church-governement as we see In “ Pag. 226. another place hee readeth 2. Thess 3.14 not as it should be He readeth If any obey not our saying note him by a letter It should be †Bez. in Thes 3 1â— If any obey not our saying in the Epistle note him That is Excommunicat him withdraw your selves from him as it is in vers 6. This he requireth the whole Church of the Thessalonians to do not to signifie such a one to Paul that he might do it The word is not 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 signify to me but 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 set a marke on him viz. of ExcoÌ„munication For it can beare no other sense Now touching Calling to the Ministerie “ Chap. 7. pag. 66. he laboureth to take from vs quite First Act. 1. about Mathias election to be an Apostle It is true as he saith An Apostle might not be chosen by meÌ„ Yet heere Gods will was that men should and they did go about this Election and proceeded in it and managed the same so far as possibly men might That is men performed many waightie and remarkable partes therein not that there was any simple necessitie for men to concurre heerein but only it pleased God it should be so for an example to posteritie to follow to practise all that was ordinarie in the same D. Bilson excepteth it is not expressed that the Church intermedled in the choice of Mathias Which is not true For first all this action was performed “ Act. 1.15 vers 23. in the middest of the Church Secondly †vers 24. they appointed two and * vers 26. they prayed and they cast lotts and hee was accounted by common consent as it
An Attestation of many Learned Godly and famous Divines Lightes of Religion and pillars of the Gospell iustifying this doctrine viz. That the Church-governement ought to bee alwayes with the peoples free consent Also this That a true Church vnder the Gospell contayneth no more ordinary Congregations but one In the discourse whereof specially Doctor Downames also D. Bilsons chiefe matters in their writings against the same are answered Calvin Instit 4.3.2 Hee laboureth the destruction and ruine of the Church whosoever either seeketh to abolish this order and this kinde of government whereof we treate or maketh light of it as not so necessary ANNO DOM. 1613. To my Christian and beloved friends in London and elswhere in England Grace and peace be multiplied in IESVS CHRIST our Lord. THe great and long afflictions which it hath pleased God to call me vnto onlie for testifying his heavenly truth against the grievous corruptions of the Church in our Land are well knowen vnto you all my most deare and loving friends In the middest of which my troubles what comfort J have receaved from you though I publish not yet both a most thankefull remembrance thereof remaineth in my heart and with God a most precious recompence is laid vp for you at the last day I confesse I might â—og since have ben discouraged through many things which I finde both within and without me Besides I have not escaped the bytings of false brethren Also I am not ignorant that divers yea of those that least should doe not only distast but also speake evill of my innocencie without all cause In very deed they can not tell why But God the righteous Iudge seeth it who yet stil sustayneth and strengthenth my infirmitie by whose grace J am that I am Wherefore in his Name J do still beare witnesse to the truth denyed by many men do now take in hand to intreat heere concerning the Christian peoples power right of †Also coÌ„sequeÌ„tly that a true Church vnder the Gospell coÌ„taineth no mo ordinary Congregations theÌ„ one is not Diocesan properly free consent in their outward spirituall governement given theÌ„ by Christ Jesus in the Gospell And therefore to his gracious assistance heerein I also do trust In the which affaire I thinke it very behoofull for the better manifestation of my lawful and iust indeavour and no lesse needfull for Gods glory to speake to this matter propounded in this Treatise not my selfe alone but to shew openly vnto all who have but a sparke of love to the truth such an Attestation of faithfull and worthy Witnesses with mee in this matter being the maine foundation of our greatest controversie touchinge Church governement that I hope hereafter none will set against this my seeking both of mine owne and your soules good nor cavill at it but such as are too worldly and too earthly minded In my Discourse vpon this cause as touching obiections D Down Defenc Anno. 1611. chiefly I gather out of Doctor Downame such as seeme to any purpose J answer them Him beere J specially deale with because of a friend he is not long since turned from vs and become our adversarie yea the latest I thinkc which openly sheweth him selfe against vs and so is like to be now most in mens eyes also hee hath heaped togeather the most thinges that the best of such Defenders have heeretofore written Besides all this the maner of his writings is with such an “ Defence 1. pag. 16 17. 2. pag 122. insolent conceit of him selfe with such * Defence 2. pag 55. 15. contempt indignation and despite against vs as commonly is not seene in any but those that slide backe from the truth which they had once tacted of And withall though in his Defence he deale with another yet in many passages hee very sharply provoketh me in particular besides other wrongs that he hath done me well knowen For these causes both I write this that I do and I chieflie nominate him for our adversarie as in this treatise so also †In the Declaration elswhere My Christian and loving friends for whose sake most of all I labour and have laboured to make our said question which is long intricat trouble some to be short and plaine and to make the matter it selfe also appeare so waightie as indeed it is Now your partes are wisely and religionsly to ponder in your heartes and to make vse of this same As the Apostle spake to Timothie so do I vnto you Consider Brethren what I say and the Lord give you vnderstanding in all things Amen Iuly 18. Anno 1612. Yours ever in the Lord HENRY IACOB The contents of this Booke divided into Nine Chapters CHAP. I. The great importance of the matter heere handled viz. That the people ought to have their free consent in their owne Churche governement And the causes of publishing this Attestation to it Pag. 9. CHAP. II. The Methode and order of this Treatise Pag. 20. CHAP. III. The Testimonies of many particular late Writers of blessed memorie making for vs in this matter Pag. 21. CHAP. IIII. The publike consent of many late yet excellent Churches heerein with vs. Pag. 48. CHAP. V. The Testimonies practise of the best Antiquitie after the New Testament heerin likewise with vs. Pag. 52 CHAP. VI. Our very Adversaries sometimes do acknowledge with vs the truth of this doctrine in plaine termes and sometimes to the same full effect specially when they deale against the Papistes Pag. 70. CHAP. VII Consequences of exceeding great importance following vpon the peoples free consent in their Church-governement inconveniences intollerable following from the contrary Pag. 84. CHAP. VIII An answer to divers chiefe Obiections of the Adversaries of this cause noting also briefly their immodest not Christian like reproches against this Evangelicall doctrine Pag. 199. CHAP. IX A short Advertisement to the vpright hearted and Christian Reader touching this Writing and Cause Pag. 316. An Attestation of many Learned Godly and Famous Divines Lightes of Religion pillars of the Gospell instifying this doctrine viz. That the Church government ought to be alwayes with the peoples free consent c. CHAP. I. The great importance of the matter heere handled viz. That the people ought to have their free consent in their owne Church-governement And the causes of publishing this Attestation to it WHEREAS many thinges at divers and sundrie times heeretofore have ben writteÌ„ which prove a plaine necessitie by Gods Word to reforme the Church Church-governement now in England verily among them all there is almost no other point so evident so direct and ful to this purpose that is Chap. 1. none in a maner so absolutly importeth the saide necessitie of reformation as this doth which is vtterly wanting among vs namâ—ly That the Church-governement ought tâ—â—â—e exercised alwayes with the peoples free consent One or two maâ—â—â— grounds of our whole controversie It
they who lately published that book of D. Bils in Latin so to do vnles they meant to shew abroad further his most impertineÌ„t ambiguous vncertain writing yet fraught with bitternes enough against vs. In a word we desire that all men should know that our question is not whether Bishops and their governement be Apostolicall about the proving whereof the greatest part of these twoo Doctors bookes are spent Further though we denie Diocesan Provinciall Bishops of any sort to bee Apostolical yet we do not “ See Reas for Reform Pag. 7. 38 simply deny but that some kinde of them also may bee lawfull were it not that certaine waightie circumstances in these our dayes do stande against them Yea there are Circumstances now verie evident and pregnant against the best sort of Diocesan Bishops which were not in 200. or 300. yeares after Christ So that no reason can be made because they were lawfull in the second or third age therefore they are lawfull now The case being thus it is to be noted that the DD. do not propound the true question betwene vs. For if the peoples free coÌ„sent in their owne Church-governement were not as it is Christs ordinaÌ„ce in the New Testament certainly no CircuÌ„stance nor any thing els could make Diocesan or Provinciall Bishops at all reproveable For which cause the true question indeed betwene the Prelacie and vs or the principal maine question is Whether the people ought to have alwaies their free coÌ„sent in their owne Church government But this specially “ See his Defen 1 38.47 4.80.99 D. Downame putteth away from him with high disdaine coÌ„tempt rayling hatefull accusations and exclamations So that with this hee will not vouchsafe to medle Wherein truely we may see him to be I can not say learned but a cunning bolde and exquisite Sophister And this may be in generall a sufficient Answer even to his whole Defence Although for some other respectes I hope some body will one day examine his particular passages more exactly in a place for the purpose But to our point in hand We cleerâ—y see by this that it is the peoples coÌ„â—ent in the affaires of their owne spiâ—ituall that is Church governement which maketh the matter putteth the difference in deed betweene the Ecclesiasticall Reformation which in all dutifulnes wee seeke and that Church-governement which the L. Bishops in Engl. do exercise I say this concerning the peoples right heerein is it which toncheth the life of our coÌ„troversie Where vnderstand Note that I meane only such people as are not ignorant in religion nor scandalous in their life For only of such Christes Visible Church ought to consist Well to proceed theÌ„ with our point Questionles hence it is that generally the Adversaries of the forenamed Reformation do so strangly reiect yea so hatefully resist and strive against this same Christian doctrine heere propouÌ„ded coÌ„cerning the churches only true governement with the peoples free coÌ„sent as they do Wherein they expresse shew litle ChristiaÌ„ patieÌ„ce for they prosecute those that hold teach the same though out of meere conscience with all bitter reproches base skoffings iniurious slanders and vnmercifull dealings And all this it is plaine not for any manner of evill that they finde in this doctrine or for any incoÌ„venience therin For in truth there is none at all as partly I have shewed “ Reas. for reform pag. 28 heretofore it will further be manifested heereafter But they so hate this doctrine only because of the inevitable consequence of the said reformation which it bringeth with it Which crosseth overturneth wholy their divers enormous worldly carnall desires as any man that looketh into the case may easily see Howsoever it be yet the truth and the agreeablenes heereof with the holy Gospell of Iesus Christ with the assuring of our soules in the way to eternall life as it hath appeared to the world ever since the discovery of Antichrist more cleerely then it did for many yeres before so doubtles it will more and more appeare yet still be made further manifest to al men even where the Gospell is receaved as it is in many places yet not so sincerely as it ought to be See chapt 7. pag. 156. c. For my part because I well perceave that the Antichristian idolatrie and tyrannie of the Church of Rome caÌ„not by Divinitie be souÌ„dly resisted as experience in time will shew neyther was it resisted by our Forefathers at the beginning but by maintayning this Evangelicall point of doctrine among others therefore I have coÌ„descended the more willingly after diligent inquirie thereinto to approve the said point of doctrine viz. that the Church governement ought to be exercised alwayes with the peoples free consent Which also even for “ For that the Papa cie els will come in See Chap. 7. this same cause I can not but beleeve to be the holy ordinance of Iesus Christ for his Church vnder the Gospel and to have ben delivered vnto vs by the Apostles in their perpetuall practise of Church-governement But specially seeing for the same we have the most sure evidence of Gods word in the New Testament which I †Argnm. 3. 9. of the Divine beginning of Chrsts Visible church Declarat pag. 20 â—1 Reas. for Reform pag. 45. 46 47. 48. have heeretofore gathered and observed at large Secondly seeing we have for it a plentifull and cleere Attestation of many Learned Godly and famous Divines both New and Old confirming our faith and strengthening our consciences therein Which Attestation I have thought it needfull at this time and in this place to gather and produce for many causes First my desire is that it may ly open to the sight of all men what a great holy agreement of good men heerein we have which being added to the forenoted fundameÌ„tal certaintie thereof in Gods word giveth so full a satisfaction to every good Christian that who can desire more Secondly all ChristiaÌ„ Civill Magistrates may heereby take good content and be satisfyed touching the innocencie of this way in the Church governement which we holde For when they shall see with what a cloud of such witnesses we are coÌ„passed in defence of this matter they can not imagine any inconvenience by it to their governement notwithstanding all the clamours and invectives of partiall Adversaries against it Lastly heereby also our adversaries virulent tongues and pens if it be possible may bee ashamed to abuse vs as they do with al kinde of vnworthy reproches and slanders when they shall see whom they hate and persecute revile togeather with vs. Wherefore for the publishing of this matter there appeareth every way very great and necessarie reason CHAP. II. The Method and order of this Treatise NOw heerein I purpose to proceed thus First I will shew who among the New Writers are our Maisters Teachers in this point of doctrine
the whole Church This ought to go before that iudgement And Non absque consensu Ecclesiae quispiam excommunicari potest lus hoc ad Ecclesiam pertinet neque ab illâ eripi potest Witthout the consent of the Church not any one can bee excommunicated This right belongeth to the Church neither ought it to bee taken away from it And the consent of the people is still to be observed in Excommunication both that tyrannie may be avoyded that it may be done with greatâ—er fruit and gravitie The same worthy man greatly coÌ„mendeth the pietie of a Bishop at Troie in France who about the yeare 1561. left his Popish state and did betake him to a flocke of Christians there Epict. â—â— and taught them the word of God purely But quia ei gravis scrupulus â—iectus est de suâ vocatione quod in ed Ecclesis ac populi Elestionem seu Censirmationem uâ— is habuerit ideò c. Beâ—ause he had a great scruple in his conscience about his Calâ—aâ—g seeing hee had not therein the Elâ—ction or Confirmation of the Church and people Therefore hee sent for the Elders of the reformed Church and desired theÌ„ that they would consider godly and wisely whether they would chose confirme and haâ—e hâ—n for their Bishop Which if they thought good to do hee would doe his indeavour that as hee began so hee would go on as hee was able by teaching and exhorting to edifiâ—â— and increase the Church committed to him But if they thought him not fit for so great an Offâ—â—â— they should speake it freely and openly hee was â—eadie to give place c. And hee desired that they would speedily deâ—berate with the Church about the matter Which when it was done hee was acknowledged â—aâ— reâ—eaved of all with one consent as a true Bishop Wherefore his authoritie and pâ—â—iâ— doth much profit the Church of Chriâ—t God bee praised who governeth and gâ—ideth the kingdome of his Sonne in this manner O where shall wee see such Bishops in these dayes 8. Musculus Musculus also speaketh and reasoneth cleerely with vs heerein Hee saith †Com. plac Of Min. Elect. There is no doubt but the Apostles keâ—t that maner of ordayning viz. after the church had chosen And After fasting and praying which was wont to be done in the Congregation of the faithful They ordayned Elders which were first chosen of the faithfull And this forme of Electing and ordayning Elders and Bishops the Apostle commended vnto his fellow workman Titus and Timothie saying “ Tiâ— 1 5. For this cause I left thee in Crete c. For who would beleeve that he ordained that Titus should do otherwise then both hee and the rest of the Apostles were accustomed to do Therefore both by example and ordinace of the Apostle in the primitive church Elders Pastors Bishops and Deacons were in the Ecclesiasticall Meetings chosen of the people by lifting vp of handes Also hee saith The Forme of Election vsed in the Apostles times is conformable to the libertie and priviledge of the Church whereof Cyprian made mention and that forme of choise whereby men began to be thrust vpon the people of Christ beeing not chosen of it doth agree to a Church which is not free but subiect to bondage And this forme of electioÌ„ by the peoples choise he calleth the Old the Fittest the Divine the Apostolicall and lawfull election the other to come from the corrupt state of the Church and Religion 9. Bullinger Bullinger assirmeth thus “ Decaâ— 5.4 The Lord from the beginning gave authoritio to the Church to chose and ordayne fit Ministers And Those which thinke that the Bishop Archbishop have power to make Ministers vse these places of the Scripture * Tit. 1. Therefore I left thee at Crete that thou mightest appoint Elcers Towne by Towne And againe “ 1. Tim. 5. Take heed that thou lay not thy handes rashly on anie But we answer that the Apostles did not vse any tyranny in the Churches nor themselves alone to have don these thinges which pertayned either to Election or Ordination other men in the Church shut out For the Apostles and Elders did create Bishops and Elders in the Church but communicating their counsaill with the Churches yea and with the consent and approving of the people Yea of Ministers that governe anic Church without or against their consent thus he saith “ In 1. Coâ— 5.4 Vâ—bem prodere diâ—untur Legati qui diversum ab eo quod ab vrbe prescriptum est agunt Those embassadors are said to betray the Citie who do any thing divers from that which is prescribed them by the Citie 10. Gualter Gualter likewise is as plaine as can be Saith hee of the calling of Ministers †Hoâ—â—il in Act 13.1 Divinitùs vocatos esse censebimus quâ—scunque Dei spiritus donis necessarijs instruxerit legitiâ—â—s Ecclesiae suffragijs elegerit Aliquas enim in hac causa partes Ecclesiae mandatas esse hiâ— locus perspicuè tradit Ecclesiae calculum spiritus requirit We wil esteeme them to have a calling from God whomsoever Gods spirit hath â—â—abled with necessarie giftes and hath chosen by the Churches lawful giviâ—g of voyces For this place plainly sheweâ—h that in this cause there are some partes committed to the Church The Spirit requireth the Churches iudgâ—ment Afterward he saith “ In Act. 14. â—â— Foedá tyranâ—ide Ecclesiarum slatus opprimitur The state of the Churches is oppressed by filthy tyrannie where at this day the Churches have not this libertie to give their free consent at least For heere he respecteth that right and iust order according to the rule of the Gospell which before he had described †In Act. 1. â—â— Ministrorum verbi Ecclesiae Electiones atque ordinationes non occultè intra privatos parietes à paucis hominiâ—us sed publicè ab Ecclesia in totius Ecclesiae conspectu fieri debent Neque noâ— movet quod Paulus alibi vni Tito vel Timâ—theo ius potestatem Episcopoâ— eligendi tribuere videtur Non enim illos privata authâ—ritate quiâ—quam agere voluit sed pro antistâ—tum â—fficio iubet curare vt Ministri digni idones legittimè crdinentur Nec verisimile est illis plus concessum fu isse quà m Apostolis ipsis qui inconsulta Ecclesia nihil in hac causa vnquam statuerunt Nam paulo post Diaconos coram Ecclesia publicè eligunt Paulus oum Barnabá collectis viritim suffiagijs Presbyâ—eres per Ecclesias singulas ordinavisse leguntur Act. 6. 3.4 The Elections and ordinations of the Ministers of the word and of the Church ought not to bee made secretly within privat walls by a few men but publikly by the Church and in the face of the whole Church Neither doth it moove vs that Paul inan other place seemeth to give right power of chofing Bishops to Titus aloâ—e
or to Timothie For he would not that they should do any thing by their privat authorâ—tie but he commaundeth them to take care that worthy and fit Ministers bee ordayned aâ—cording to the office of Guides and Overseers Nâ—ither is it likely that more was graunted to them then to the Apostles themselves who determined nothing in this cause at any time without the churches cousaill or witbout taking the churches advise For a little after they both chose Deacons publikly in the preseÌ„ce of the church and Paul with Barnabas are read to have ordayned Presbyters throughout every Church gathering the voyces of every maÌ„ Act 6 3.4 Arguitur exemple hoc corruptissimus idemque perniciosissimus Ministros eligends mos quem tam seculis aliquot hâc in causa imperâ—um obtinuisse constat Quofit vt non raro vâ—us aliquis in pluribus Ecclesijs privata authoritate Ministros Eligat Ordinet Quaete potissimum ab Abbatibus Episcopis Prapositis peccaiur Nec meitùs rem administrant nonnulli inter eos qui Evangelij nomine gloriantur Ecclesiarum reformatores baberi volunt Dum enim isis malè vsurpata possessione Monachos Episcopos vt par est eijeiunt Ecclesijstamen libertatem illorum tyrannide ereptam non restituunt Sed pro suâ— arbitrio administrant quae olim ab Episcopis Monachis administrari solebant Quod malum nisi brevi reprimatur Simoniâ—m exitialem omnis Ecclesiasticae Disciplina confusionem nobis pariet Atque omne boâ— Romanis Pontificibus debetur c. Maximè Calisto secundo ex quo tempore Ecclesia libertas ceu lethali morbo contabescens tandem in vniversum evanuit Quam quicunque restitutam volunt sive illi verbi Ministri sint sive Magistratus huc incumbendum sibi esse sciant vt vetus Ministrorum eligendorum consuetudo in ducatur By this example is reproved that most corrupt also most pernicious manner of chosing Ministers which it is manifest hath gotteÌ„ DominioÌ„ Lordly rule in this affaire now these certaine ages Whereby it is that not seldome one both choseth and ordayneth Ministers in many Churches by his privat authoritie Wherein chieflic the Abbots As in England c. Bishops and Rulers offende Neither do divers others among those that glorie in the name of the Gospell and would be counted Reformers of Churches order this matter better For while they put foorth the Monkes Bishops as it is meete they should out of their possession wickedly vsurped yet the libertie which they tooke away from their tyrannie they restore not to the Churches but administer those thinges at their owne will which in time past were wont to bee administred by the Bishops and Monkes Which evill vnles it bee shortly repressed it will bring foorth among vs both Simonie and also a deadly confusion of all Church Dâ—â—ciplice And all this wee have from the Bishops of Rome c. Chieflie from Calistus the second FroÌ„ which time the Churches libertie as it were languishing with a deadly sicknes at last vanished away wholy Which whosoever do desire that it may be restored whether they be Ministers or Magistrates let them know they must labour for this that the old custome of chosing Ministers bee brought in againe 11. Vrsimus Vnto these we will adde Vrsinus who teacheth thus Math. 18.17 If he refuse to heare the Church “ Catech. pa. 799.800 Printed at Oxfor An. 1589 let him be vnto thee as a Heathen a Publican In these wordes Christ expresly commaundeth all whosoever beeing after this sort admonished by the Church will not repent to bee by the common consent of the Church excommunicated vntill they repent And whosoever are excommunicated they againe professing and shewing in their actions amendment are altogeather in lake sort receaved into the Church as they were exiled from it namely by the iudgement of the Elders by the consent of the Church and the authoritie of Christ and the Scripture And that deâ—untiation whereby one is excommunicated is not in the power of the Minister of the Church but in the power of the Church and is done in the name of the Church because this Commandment was given by Christ vnto the church For he saith expresly Tel the Church 12. Danaus In 1 Tim. 5.22 Heere also Danaus is worthie to bee remembred He saith Approbatio eligendi Ministri ad plebem totum populum Ecclesia sanè pertinet The approbation of the Minister to bee chosen pertayneth truly to the whole people of the Church Againe Plebem non esse ab ordinationibâ— vocandorum preficiendorum muneribu Ecclesiasticis excludâ—ndam demonstant examplâ— veteris Ecclesiae c. That the people â—ught not to bee excluded from the ordinations of Ministers the examâ—les of the old Church do demonstrat in which without doubt the Election by voyces of the whole Church was vsed as it is easie to be shewed in Act 6. 14. Therefore they do perfidiously deprive the Church of her right Perfidie who thrust a Pastor on a people without their knowledge and consent For they do the Church the greatest iniurie when they spoile her of her iudgement and voyce giving Sacrilege or Church robbing Who therefore are truly to bee called Sacrilegious or Church-robbers Neither indeed is he a lawful Pastor which is over a flocke being ignorant of his comming or against their will or not consenting Which presently after he sticketh not to applie to the callings of the Ministers in England saying Ex his omnibus apparet quam nulla sit vel non legitima corum verbi Ministrorum Vocatio c. By all this it appeareth how that calling of Ministers is none or not lawfull which is made by the authoritie letters commaundement and iudgement of the King alone or Queene or the Patrone or Bishop or Archbishop c. veluti in mediâ Angliâ as it is vsed in England Id quod dolendum est which I speake with greefe Moreover concerning Excommunication he saith “ In vers 1. Hac iurisdictio est totuâ— quidem Ecclesia ratione potestatis Prepositotum autem ratione exercitij adminisirationis This iurisdiction is the whole Churâ—hes in respect of the power thereof but it beâ—ongeth to the Guides of the Church in respect â—f administring it namely populo assentiente with the peoples consent as hee addeth a â—ittle after And againe Executioni puâ—lica censura intervenire debet notitia conâ—ensus Ecclesia The knowledge and consent of the Church ought to be in the execution of the publike censure 13. Tilenus Neither shall Tilenus testimonie bee vnremembred who aunswering the Coâ—nt Lavl that required him to shew what calling Calvin had saith “ Respons ad Com Lavallium quest 3 The people of Geneva professing the Gospel did first call Farel to be their Pastor then he they called Calvin to be likewise Applying Ciprians sentence thervnto who avoucheth “ Epist
have to that purâ—ise handled in my 3. and 9. Argumentes of the Divine beginning and institution of Christes Visible and Ministeriall Church do well shew and testifie to vs so much CHAP. VI. Our very Adversaries do acknowledge with vs the truth of this doctrine sometimes in plaine termes Chap. 6. and sometimes to the same full effect specially when they deale against the Papistes THE force and evidence of this truth viz. touching the peoples right for their free consent in Church governement is such that also our very Adversaries sometimes in plaine termes sometimes to the same full effect do acknowledge it Among many I will content my selfe with two for the present viz. D. Bilson and D. Downame The first of these in his Answer to the Apologie of the Seminarie Pristes and Iesuits writeth thus “ D. Bila against the Seminar part 2 353.356 We have the words and warrant of the H. Ghost for that which we say c. viz. That the people can and ought to disceme and trie the doctrine and spirits of the Teachers c so to chose and refuse theÌ„ as they by the word should see good Thus saith hee And what can be spoken by any of our selves more plainly and more fully to our purpose If the people can and ought to chose their Teachers and to refuse whom they finde worthy to be refused then why are they not allowed so to do in England If the wordes and warrant of the holy Ghost be for it then who may impeach it Who may resist it What are they that revile and persecute this way Hee addeth heere in this place that the people “ Pag. 355. have skill and leave to discerne both viz. to discerne the Teachers their doctrine Where also hee discourseth much vpon this right of the people as being Christes ordinaÌ„ce and presseth it against the Papistes Yea in another booke where he pleadeth to the contrarie purpose against vs yet hee writeth thus Perpet gov pag 300. * The Apostles left Elections indifferently to the people and Clergie of Ierusalem The people had as much right to chose their Pastor as the Clergie that had more skill to iudge “ Pag 339. Well may the peoples interest stand vpon the grounds of Reason Nature and be derived from the rules of Christian equitie * Pag. 359. The late Bishops of Rome have not ceased cursing and fighting till excluding both Prince and people they reduced the Election wholy to the Clergie But hee telleth them that by their leave applying heerevnto the wordes of Christ Mat. 19. 8. it was not so from the beginning Againe hee saith †Pag. 330. I a knowledge each Church and people stand frâ—e by Gods law to admit maintaine and obey no man as their Pastor without their liking Where in deed he addeth to the contrarie vnles by law custome or consent they restraine themselves But this he him selfe els-where answereth roundly “ Pag. 221. What authoritie had others after the Apostles deathes to chaÌ„ge the Apostolike governement And that it was not so from the beginning which before he answered is a full confutation also of this exception As also where he calleth Mens ordinances in Church governement †Pag. 19. Corruptions of times inventions of Men and a transgressing of the Commandement of God for the traditions of men And where he calleth such ordinances “ Pag. 111. intrusion and presumption As for that he saith elswhere in this booke †Pag 82. the Multitude hee meaneth the Christian people neither could not can iudge of the giftes and abilities of Pastors no more then blind men of colours This sheweth plainly his variable minde contradiction to him selfe As for the matter it is spoken meerely out of an humour and partialitie against vs and that his Lordship in spirituall things over Christes people might be stablished But before against the maine adversaries of the Gospell the Papistes he taught the truth as the Scripture there alleaged doth shew but heere in this last place he turneth about ioyneth with them rather then he would seeme to consent with vs. Nevertheles his former most cleere and syncere testimonie on our behalfe can not be blotted out Againe in the same booke speaking of Bishops in plaine termes thus hee saith “ pag. 340. They have no power to impose a Pastor on any Church against their willes nor to force them to yeeld him obedience or maintenance against their liking If this were ingenuously acknowledged and professed practised likewise religiously we should desire no more for the substance of the matter as it hath ben often saide Our agreement togeather touchinge Church-governement would soone appeare But he when he listeth will tell vs that Timothie and Tâ—â—s whom hee esteemeth Bishops had power to make Presbyters to Churches and the Apostles also “ pag. 88. without the people or their consent Wherefore what to reckon of his sayings and speaches we know not Only his foresaid agreement with vs in wordes is manifest Next to him wee will consider of Doctor Downame He in a certain place though it seemeth full sore against his will yet through the force of the truth being compelled acknowledgeth and yeeldeth vnto vs that †D Down Def. 4.99 the power of ordination and iurisdiction by right is seated in the whole Church or Congregation in case of necessitie wherein both the succession of their owne Clergie fayling and the helpe of others wanting the right is devolved to the whole body of the Church In which words I desire all men to observe how this Doctor graunteth vs the cause in full effect and agreeth wholy to our purpose For that which heere hee saith and which necessarilie followeth from these wordes is all that weâ— desire Wherefore I pray the Christian Reader to marke well these seaven Consequentes which follow froÌ„ these wordes of D. Downame and cannot be denyed by any honest and true-hearted Christian First in that he holdeth that the power of ordination and iurisdiction by right is seated in the particular Congregation in case of necessitie it is certain therfore that he must hold that this right and power is seated in the whole particular Congregation by Christ and by the ordinance of God For no person or persons can at any time nor in any respect have such power by Mans ordinance It can not bee either Naturally or Civilly given or receaved Wherefore in whom soever that power is seated at what time soever doubtles it is in them Supernaturally God by his speciall grace giveth it and Christ by his holy ordinance seateth it in them Yea though it bee in any case of necessitie whatsoever For thus it is written “ Iob 3. â—7 A man can receave nothing except it be given him from heaven That is No dignitie no authoritie no power in the Church can be but from God And it is spoken absolutly touching all
is before noted Whence it is that Doct. Downame heere saith truly the succession of their owne Clergie fayling and the helpe of others wanting the right is devolved to the whole body of the Church If the Doctor will reply say that this power and right is not essentially in the whole Congregation alwayes nor at all times but sometimes only that is in the case of necessitie aforesaid I answer then the D. folly and want of true reason will be manifest to all men For what soever is essentiall to any thing at sometime is essentiall to the same alwayes and evermore That which is essentiall once is essentiall still So that if the Congregations power right to consent in making of Ministers in Censures be essentiall at sometime as he acknowledgeth it is then certainly it is essentiall therein at all times and evermore The truth heereof can never be denyed And hence it is that Luther saieth If Titus would not Luth. de Ministr Eccles instit propâ— finem the Congregation might ordaine Ministers to them selves And of Excommunication Zuinglius saith “ Artic. 31. Non quod solus Episcopus hac facere debeat quisque hoc â—â—â—est si Episcopus fuerit negligens Any man may do this if the Bishop be negligent Hee meaneth any Man appointed by the Church may do it In which respect also that senteÌ„ce of Epiphanius that †Epiph. haereâ—â— 75. Biâ—â—ops can beget Fathers to the Church but Presbyters can not is to be refused as vntrue and erroneous For before wee have seene that only the CoÌ„gregation doth beget Fathers that is maketh Ministers essentially the Bishop doth it but instrumentally and Ministerially And so a Presbyter may do it as well as he whom they name a Bishop yea any other also may do it as Luther and Zuinglius before affirme when the Church imployeth them to that vsâ— Our two Doctors before cited even aâ— the Papistes also do hold strongly with those wordes of “ â—aereâ— 75. Epephanius to the great preiudice of the Gospel But their bare opinions names are nothing to our cleere and certain reason for the contrarie before set downe Neither are the bare opinions and naked names of any other men whosoever any better worth Seventhly 〈◊〉 last of all hence it foloweth so that it can not bee denyed that seeing thâ— whole CoÌ„gregation doth always give the Calling of ordinary Ministers essentially therfore the whole Congregation ought alwayes of necessitie tâ— give their free consent to their Minister at least so farre foorth that nonâ— bee imposed on them whether they will or no. The like also is to bee saiâ— of their power in iurisdiction And these pointes wee must imagine that they are acknowledged and held by D. Downame or surely that hee ought to acknowledge them all seeing by force of true reason they al do follow from those his wordes which he affirmeth holdeth as before I have declared Now this is all that wee professe touching the pleoples right tâ— Church government For we deniâ— not but in the ordinarie peaceable and right state of the Church when al things are caried well the chief diâ—ection sway of the whole government belongeth to the Bishop or Paâ—tor the people beeing on their part â—o hearken to their Teacher to folâ—ow their Guide obediently dutieâ—ully D. Down Deâ—â— 1.41 Their power to iudge and to provide otherwise for themselves being wheÌ„ they see their Guides to faile Which seeing it is his minde also set downe in his owne words before reâ—earsed I have truly affirmed that â—ouching our present cause even this Doctor agreeth with vs sometime in â—ull effect by good consequence of â—eason from his expresse wordes Though at other times he do as some report Cicero said to Salust “ Orat. 〈◊〉 Cicer. 〈◊〉 Salust Aliud stans â—â—â—â—d sedens de repub sentis Of the common â—ealth thou thinkest one thing standing another sitting Of Christes Visible Church and the governement thereof verily our Doctor doth likewise CHAPTER VII Chap. 7. Consequences of greatest importance following vpon the peoples free coÌ„sent in their Church governement inconveniences in Religion not sufferable following from the contrary AFter the forerehearsed Witnesses for this Doctrine we wil now shewe certain cleere and necessarie Consequences which follow from the same also some true and great Inconveniences to faith and godly life and to Civill authoritie such as are not to be tolerated which yet cannot be avoyded where men professing to be Christians imbrace not this point Of all fortes I wil heere observe eight great and waightie Consequentes heerevpon First this being receaved as the Ordinance of Christ and the practise of the Apostles 1. CoÌ„sequent that the Church governement ought to be alwayes with the peoples free consent it followeth that every Church is only “ As is also shewed in the Declaration pag. 12. 13. 14. 35. one ordinarie Congregation and not any proper Diocesan or Provinciall Church or larger Vnderstanding alwayes the peoples free consent to be orderly conveniently taken and practised so as Christ intendeth that †1. Cor. 14.40 every thing should bee done in his Church For where the peoples free consent is orderly and conveniently practised alwayes in the Church governement there the Body of the Church can not be so large as a Diocese much lesse as a Province or Nation and least of all so large as a Vniversall Church Seeing all this people can not possibly by any meanes give their free consent in the ordinarie Church-governement neither can any person take it of all them iustly orderly and conveniently This to say the truth is not possible For in such a state when onely some maine partes of the Church governement are exercised it will bee alwayes with much defect and also with great disturbance and tumult oftentimes I say where it is extended so largely so wide with concurrence of such multitudes of people This is true first in very reason and withall often experience hath shewed it in former times vnder most Christian carefull Princes after the Nicen Councill as at Alexandria at Antioch at Rome at Constantinople and in infinite places mo a great part whereof the “ Euseâ— Socrat. Zozomeâ— Theodoret. Evagrius Stories doe record In which Church actions though done with to inconvenient libertie of the people yet the greatest part of the people whoÌ„ the effect of those businesses reached vnto were absent and so wanted their right those which were present were full of confusion and tumult neither could it be otherwise But God is the God of equitie of order and of peace Wherefore this disorder can nor be fit for Gods Church And so neither can a Diocesan circuit Râ—as for reform p. 26.27 or larger in which this disorder wil arise necessarilie if all that people togeather have their free consent in their Church-governement Which the whole
conceave assurance to our soules of Gods gracious favor and everlasting goodnes if wee stande in that way which plainly is Christes Gal. 6.16 As many as walke according to this rule peace shal be vpon them mercy and vpon the Israel of God But contrariwise our adversaries allowing of two wayes in the Churches spirituall governement and administratiō the one Apostolike the other Humane both good as they say both changeable by men but neither of them any certain Ordinance or Cōmandement of Christ Againe when they make many “ Those which follow the doctrine of our Attestators before alleged thousand several Churches in the world to vse no other Calling of their Ministers but such as is of Mens institutiō and from naturall reason do they in this give assurance to mens consciences Nay it can not be At the least men standing in such state will often doubt and make question whether the spirituall blessings and graces of God in Christ bee promised or may bee instrumentally wrought in them by such a Ministerie no otherwise authorised and called then so For as it is most certain that God saveth no man Ordinarily but by Outward meanes that these Outward meanes are ordinarilie Christes Visible Church the Ordayning of Ministers and the administring of Gods Word Sacramentes and Censures therein so it is most vncertain and much to bee doubted whether God will acknowledge anie of these Outward meanes and instrumentes to be his or will give his ordinarie blessing vnto them working saith repētance sanctificatiō hereafter his heavēly glorie in vs by thē vnles the saide Outward meanes and instrumentes be simply of that forme and nature and bee exercised by the power and authoritie of such persons only as he himself hath specially ordayned and sanctifyed in his word to that purpose This doubt I say at least As also to stand vnder a Nōresidēt may breed this doubt will and must needes arise from the opinion of our adversaries And it can not but weaken the faith of many if in the end it do not wholy subvert it Which indeed may come to passe from this originall divers and sundry wayes But our vniforme cōstitution of the Church and administration thereof cutteth of all occasion of such doubting and leaveth our consciences safely resting on Christ alone And so much for this Seaventhly where this is held viz. that the peoples free consent ought to be alwayes in the Church governement there necessarily the Visible Catholike Church of Rome is ruined quite overthrowen and destroyed Yea this assertion of ours being made good her spirituall tyrannie vsurpation is easily demonstrated And there is no man who seeth not this But contrariwise many see not and many will not see till they feele that which yet is as certain and as sure a Consequence in true reason viz. that where the peoples consent in the Church governement is condemned and hated Advantage to the Pope by a Diocesan Church there the Church of Rome will get advātage and in time advancement againe notwithstanding that Civill Magistrates for a season doe what they can to resist the same I know many will at the first thinke this a Paradox yet verily it wil prove true For the Church of Rome not only in reason but by cleere rules of Divinitie and Religion must needes get ground of vs if we willingly give away this invincible Bullwarke and Fortresse against thē I meane Christes Visible Churches true and proper Nature and that both intensive Christes Visible Churches Nature Intensive which is the power of Spirituall governement receaved from Christ her Author and Founder wherein the Peoples free consent is comprehended as before I have often rehearsed Extensive and also the Extensive quantitie and Outward Body of the said Church which in the Gospell never reacheth to many Ordinarie Congregations nor to any Set circuit of ground at all as a Diocesan Church doth but to one ordinarie Congregation only as I haue “ Declarat pag. 18. elswhere plainly declared This is the true and proper Nature of Christes Visible Church in the New Testamēt And I would all men did cōsider this viz. that the effectuall defence of our faith against Poperie is must be the alleadging and pressing against them this Nature and proper Constitution of Christes saide Visible Church Without which we shall labor against them al in vaine and which our forefathers Zuinglius Luther and the rest wisely holding and maintayning as †Chapt. 3. 4. and pag. 102. 103. 104. above we have seene have easily mightily from thence by the sword of the Spirit whiche is the word of God put them to flight and quelled them And so may we do still but no otherwise In which regard it greeveth me often times when I see many of our Defenders of the truth against the Papistes being otherwise learned and godly yet dealing in this matter very vncircumspectly and I may say praeposterously Who make no great reckoning to stande with the Papistes vpon the proper Nature of Christes Visible Church A great cause why cur controversies com not to an and. or if they medle with it they do not strictly holde to that Nature forme thereof which is left vs in the N. Testament being plainly another and distinct from that of the Iewes vnder the Law This verily our men against that Adversarie do consider too little and they prosecute it lesse They treat more of Christes Invisible or Militant then of the Ministeriall Church So leaving the question in deed and labouring in things which touch not the point Whereby it cometh to passe that they resist thē not with that fruit as they might For wee must know that ordinarily the Church Ministeriall is the Meanes and instrument of true faith If the Meanes and procuring cause which is most sensible to vs be not first well cleered and mens consciences therein satisfyed and the same demonstrated plainly to bee of Divine institution the doctrine of faith besides will bee but vncertain If any say Our Forefathers overcame the Papistes by the word of God cutting downe their other foule errors Obiection viz. Purgatorie Free-will Auricular confession Reall presence Images Praying to Saints Iustification by workes c. They overcame them not by affirming that the people ought to have alwayes their free cōsent in Church governement And so may wee also overcome them still I answere Men are much deceaved that do thus thinke Answ Our Forefathers as I said by this verie assertion that the people ought to have their said free consent did vtterly overthrow the Papistes and without this they could not possibly have so done For vnles this assertion had ben true neither could the first Protestant Pastors bee truly authorised and called neither could any of the Protestants at first lawfully have forsaken the Roman Church whereof they all stood members And then I pray how could they have overcome them Nay it had
never ben possible For it had ben to smal purpose if they had oppugned those their other errors only withal had iustifyed the forme of the Roman Church and the calling of their Ministerie which our Forefathers must have done if our said Assertion had not ben true And so they must have taryed still ordinarie members vnder the governement of the same Church Againe to small purpose had they oppugned those other errors if they had left to obloquie their owne Ministerie Which likewise they must have done if our said Assertion were not true For as in warfare good weapons and much strength without iustifyable authoritie A Similitude will in short time bring ruine and confusion to them that vse the same Even so it is in this cause yea much more heere it is true Though wee seeme to cut down Popish errors with the sword of Gods word yet if wee do not cleere our Ministerie and iustifye our Calling give good satisfaction to mens Consciences for the lawfulnes of our handling the Word and Sacraments and Spirituall governement wee shall quickly labour in vaine And that appeareth certainly to much at this day in England the greater is our woe Not only in respect of Popery but in other respects also Well will our adversaries say The Protestantes Ministerie is iustifyed sufficiently against the Papistes albeit the people have no consent in their Ministers Calling Oh would God our learned men in Englande would shew this substantially Then would I for my part quickly conforme as before also I protested But otherwise let them bee assured the Church of Rome do what they can will get ground of them in England And this maketh mee to lay this to heart as I do Every day we are chalenged by the “ D. KellisoÌ„ Treatise of faith A. D. Iohn Fraser c. Papistes to proove the lawfulnes of our Ministerie in England and of our Calling to it What say our learned men heerevnto A direct and a full and a stedfast answer must be made to this Mens consciences will not be satisfyed with dilatorie and shifting answeres Nor if wee leave Scruples Difficulties in that we speake To iustify the Calling of our Ministerie in England and to prove the lawfulnes thereof The true iustification of the Protestants Ministerie wee must plainly shew that the persons who give this Calling with vs have good authoritie in deed to give the same This is the very point Let our learned men make this cleere and then the Papistes are stopped then all men are satisfyed For it is a plaine case and graunted of all that every true Ministerie in the Church must be receaved from some persons who have good and iust authoritie to give it And this is essentiall to every true Ministerie Some there are in Englande who affirme the Ministers authoritie is only an Inward Calling and gifts of the minde And so hath no absolut necessitie to be Outwardly receaved from any other Which in deed is not fit for any wise man or honest Christian to holde It is the worst answer of a thousand and in a word meerely Anabaptisticall Some others there are who say that this authoritie of the Ministerie and of exercising Excommunication also is derived originally from the Magistrate even from the King and Parliament with vs. And so they expound that ordinance of our Saviour “ Mat. 18.17 Tell the Church to be Tell the civil Magistrate Verily they may also as well expound these wordes †Mat. 86.18 Vpon this Rocke I will build my Church to signifie Vpon the Civill Magistrate vpon the Prince Christ buildeth his church For thus they make Christes Visible Church vnder the Gospell only a Civill Societie and a Humane politie Which profane opinion is so vnworthy of all true Christian people that it deserveth to bee exploded no lesse then the other These answers against the Papistes wee may thinke will do but litle good For as it is absolutly necessary that a true Minister of the Gospell have his calling given him outwardly from some persons and that these persons have good and iust authoritie to give it So likewise it is absolutly necessarie that every true Minister of the Gospell have his calling given him by those who are by Christ him selfe or his holy Spirit in the Apostles authorised to give it For thus only can an Ordinarie Ministers Calling be of God which is “ Ioh. 3.27 Heb. 5.4 Mat. 21.25 1. Cor 12.5 Rom. 10.15 necessarie and not of men And this is that which we call Essentiall in every Ordinarie Ecclesiasticall Minister Who are the persons that have power from Christ to make Ministers Againe as I said this will soundly answere the Papistes and nothing els But now all the matter will be who are the persons which have power authoritie from Christ to give a Calling to a Minister of the Gospell Heere as touching my selfe when I deale with Papistes as often I have don I affirme as D. Tilenus in this case answered the L. Lavall in France which “ Pag. 43. before I remembred viz. that the people consenting togeather in the truth of the Gospell have froÌ„ Christ power and authoritie first to forsake all Sacrilegious Priestes and their ministerie and then to give a true and lawfull calling of Ministerie to some whom them selves do like Wherein Tilenus shewed Cyprians iudgement also agreeing with his Cyprian there affirming likewise that this power of the people is from Divine authoritie as “ Pag. 56. 57. before also is shewed And other very plaine proofes heereof Act. 1.23.26 and 6.3.5.6 and 14.23 I have †Reas. for reform pag. 45. 46. 47. c. Divine beginning of Christs Visib Church Argum. 9. A DefinitioÌ„ generall twice set downe at large out of the New Testament Beside all which there is very pregnant reason also for the same For Christian people whether few or many ioyned togeather in a constant societie of one ordinarie Congregation to serve God according to his word are a true Visible Church of Christ Every true Visible Church of Christ is his Kingdome vpon earth his deare Spouse his owne Body c. Now it ought not to bee doubted but Christ hath given power to his Kingdome to his Spouse to his Body to governe it selfe to preserve it selfe to provide for it selfe when it wanteth all things ordayned for it in the best maner it can This may not bee doubted Therefore such a Societie vnder the Gospell wanting Ministers must have power to ordaine Ministers for her selfe Likewise the Apostle saieth All thinges are theirs and they Christes and Christ Gods Then 1. Cor. 3 2â—.23 wheÌ„ they want Ministers they cannot want power to provide them to them selves Seeing God hath made them theirs Further the Apostle requireth the christiaÌ„ people to try the Spirits of their Teachers whether they be of God or no. 1. Ioh. 4.1 And Christ saith His sheepe heare his voice a
Schismatickes and peace-breakers but look vnto the word of God theÌ„ them selves will be found to bee the makers of the Schisme in departing from the said word of God by their Traditions The true cause of Vnitie We see then by this that the true iust cause of Vnitie in the churches of Christ is to cleave vnseparably to Christes Testament Which meÌ„ not willing to follow alwayes but seeking to walke rather in the wayes and customes and inventions of men thereby they give occasion indeed of much strife The true cause of dissension in Religion discord dissention This is the true cause of our differences in religion It is as fenseleâ— which D. Downame maintaineth that Diocesan and Provinciall Bishops having no Superior Ecclesiasticall can be causes of Vnitie Def. 2.114 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 For none of these can do any thing but each in his owne circuit Now what is that to Christian Vnitie when nevertheles there may be for all theÌ„ so many opinions as there be independent Provinciall Bishops Only a Vniversall Church and Bishop if we list to follow Mens policies and not Christes Testament may in deed cause a kinde of Vnitie But againe such Vnitie without Veritie is vnto Christian people plaine tyrannie And we professe that absolute Vnitie vnder a Visible Head is not so good as the TyraÌ„nie of such a one is mischievous Christ rather would his faithfull servantes should be prooved and exercised by Schismatikes then their consciences oppressed by tyrants Some perhaps will say that thus we seeme to desire dissentions seeing we refuse reasonable likelie meanes of Vnitie I answer First The Pope hath better colour so to obiect then Provincialls as before is said Second our meanes of Vnitie which we imbrace are far more likely to effect the same then their way For they have a Provinciall L. Bishop without the word but we have Christs written word his churches helpe also These meanes among vs will settle more vnitie and peace in truth a hundred times especially within the body of our Churches then our adversaries have or can have by their L. Bishops The Magistrats favor a speciall cause of Vnitie If our Magistrates would shew vs their favor and aide which our adversaries enioy this that I say would quickly vniversally be evident But for want of the Magistrates said favor I grant mo differences do appeare amonge vs then would otherwise In which case yet no ChristiaÌ„ ought to be offended but to consider both that vnder the Apostles it hath been so and that Allmightie God she weth heereby that it is “ See D. Downam Def. 3.67.68 better so to bee then vnder Humane tyrannie though pretending Vnitie Doct. Downame setteth vp his rest vpon a †Def. 3.4.6 Vniversall Synod for Vnitie This is his chiefest buck lar But alas how vaine is it For first a Vniversall Synode indeed is impossible to be had especially by vs in these dayes For when and where had any Christians the least benefit by a Vniversall Synod since the Pope hath ben detected What a meanes then of Vnitie is that which our Adversaries pretend Namely which is not possible to be had or howsoever most rare difficult Secondly such a Synod at the D. stands for viz. Setting downe Decreta tanquam Dictatoria 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 Ecclesijs Decrees as it were vncontroulable and not vnder the examination of the Churches is by the learned “ Pag. 101. c. 105. 106 c. before plainly condemned to whom I will adde M. Chemnicius †Exam. Concil Trid. part 1. pag. 3. condemning the Council of Trent for this very cause in these very wordes denying also that any of the Primitive Councills were such And yet a Vniversall Councill if it may bee had and other Councills so far as they may be had we allow and imbrace and do acknowledge great benefit by them namely so that their Decrees may bee examined and tryed by Gods worde of them to whom Gods word appertaineth This vse I say of a Generall Synod wee allow as well as he which in deed is the only true vse of Synods Certainly Provinciall and Diocesan Synods wee allow more then he doth For hee so admitteth these Synods that yet the Head Bishop in any of theÌ„ is to “ Def. 4.82.83 2.114 over rule all And what vse of them is there then The L. Bishop may have as good Counsel and advise with lesse trouble and charge But these are not that Meanes of Vnitie which hee pretendeth It is as I said the Synod Vniversall and that of supreme and absolute power spirituall over all Christians and that from Christes expresse ordinance Which verily also taketh away Soveraigne power froÌ„ all within England Note this ill Consequent to reforme our selves in religion what need so ever there be Which I leave to the wise to consider of Yea this his opinion doth in the end necessarily induce a Pope as I have said Hitherto of perverting the true intensive Nature of Christes Visible Church viz. where the people of the ordinary Congregations are barred their free consent in the Church governemeÌ„t Where we have seene what great and lamentable evills follow therevpon even to the making of a plaine path way for the Popes reentrance among vs. What extent or limit is there of a Church in the New Testam Now wee shall see that the same mischiefe cometh likewise by extending the Churches outward Body larger and further then it ought to bee The iust extent of the outward Body or the true boundes and limites of Christes Visib Church alwayes vnder the Gospell is one ordinarie Congregation only See also before pag. 10. 157. The reason is because so we finde it to bee in the whole New Testament of Christ All the which I have proved and declared plainly els where viz. before pag. 87. and Declarat pag. 10. 19. 20. c. It is to prophane and vnchristian advisedly to affirme that in the New Testament Christ or his Apostles have limited and defined no Church Oâ— that men may change those boundeâ— which Christ or his Apostles have seâ— The Papistes them selves are not 〈◊〉 grosse as †Pag. 150. before I have noted they would desire no greater hand vpon vs then that we should so answer them Some certain limites therefore and bounds of a Church questionles Chrisâ— hath set But our adversaries and namely “ Def. â— c. D. Downame refuseth the ordinary Congregation They avouch and maintayne a diocesan and Provinciall Church to be of Divine institution in the New Testament What maintaine they A Diocesan Church Nay in deed Christes Visible Church â—hen must be not only Diocesan A Diocesan Church requireth a Vniversall Church nor only Provincial no nor only Patriarâ—hall but eveÌ„ Vniversall I say where Christes Visible Church is not beleeved to bee by Christ limited only to one ordinary
propositions which they offer to maintayne are such as if they were not true wee can not iustly separat froÌ„ the Church of Rome nor stand out against it Those some Proposittions which they meane are namely the fourth eight set down in that Offer Which affirme that a Church is but one Ordinary CoÌ„gregation and that the people ought to have their free consent in the spirituall governement thereof Vnto which may be added the 5.6.7 and 10. as being all of one nature by cleere and certain consequence The soundnes and firme truth of all the which hath ben sufficiently prooved and declared heeretofore and might by such a right ChristiaÌ„ tryal as there they desire bee brought to further light Wherefore D. Downames absurd reproches against that treatise calling it most senselesly “ Def 1.382 4.81 an Vnchristian and vnmodest Offer and the Positions therein Schismatical novelties do declare with what gall of bitternes his heart over-floweth against the truth against his brethren as “ Def. 2.48 hee dissemblingly calleth vs and also against those noble Pillars of the Gospell before alleaged our Attestators who are heerein his vtter adversaries whatsoever he pretendeth to the coÌ„trary He as a cocke on his owne dunghill may crowâ— what he list But if the Offer had ben or might bee accepted in such equall order as is there tendered he would be made to eate his wordes I doubt not and all the infamie of Schisme Noveltie would fall vpon his owne head Without which acceptanc elet the Doct. know that his tedious and Sophisticall writing all other such like will be held by wise men to bee vaine boasting and no better coÌ„quest then of such Champions as draw their weapons strike fight and take on at adversaries whose handes they will bee sure them selves have firste tyed fast Yea whom they will bee sure to have in their power to imprison and persecute if any presume to move against them Neither will they indure to bee shewed the imminent danger from the common enimy till all come about their heads And so much touching the important CoÌ„sequences of our present Assertion CHAP. 8. An answer to divers chiefe Obiections of the adversaries of this cause noting also brieflie their immodest not Christianlike reproches against this Evangelicall doctrine FIRST we will consider heere D. Downames second booke of his Defence D. Downames Defence 2. Booke answereâ—â— affirming and maintaining that there were proper DiocesaÌ„ Churches vnder the Apostles Which being true the people then certainly had not a free consent in Church-governement A cleare reason whereof I shewed before pag. 85. And I willingly acknowledge it still Yea and likewise that neither now they ought to have That vnder the Apostles the Churches were properly Diocesan the D. affirmeth in the title of this second book of his Defense and doth his best to maintaine it in the whole processe thereof afterward Where indeed I coÌ„mend him above al others that ever wrote in this cause against vs D Downames commendatiors namely for that hee doth more fitly and rightly set downe the point of the controversy which hath so long troubled Christian people in England Chap. 8. then any other before him hath don Which “ Whether proper Diocesan Churches were vnder the Apostles point only if it were Christianly and plainly decided would bring great contentment and a ioyful Vnitie I am perswaded to many thousandes But the proofes of his assertion heere do all faile him Nay they are strangely abused and perverted by him specially his Scriptures And heerein he is little to bee commended Let vs examine therefore his Scriptures and then the rest Yet by the way wee will Define a proper Diocesan Church The Definition of a Diocesan Church before wee begin with him A Diocesan Church is a Societiâ— of professed Christians whose spirituall governement is practised without the peoples sieâ— consent and whose Pastor hath a pluralitie of ordinarâ—e Congregations in his charge Such a Church we deny to have ben vnder the Apostles and I pray the Reader to have recourse to those seaven Reasons of mine which I have “ Declarat pag. 20.21 c. elswhere set downe to proove this my denyall and to disprove his assertion Now what doeth the Doctor bring to proove his opinion Expect not good Reader that I should follow him in his vaine flourishes and needles amplificatioÌ„s repetitions invectives other passages more fit for ostentation to satisfy his inteÌ„perate humor then for profit My desire is so as I may with perspicuitie in the cause to vse brevitie and if not to deâ—iver multa paucis yet to take heed not to deliver pauca multis as hee doth Wherefore I will pick out that which 〈◊〉 see materiall in him the rest I will â—et passe In his first Chapter pag. 4. he â—etteth downe a most confused distriâ—ution of the divers senses of the Greeke word Ecclesia D. Down Defen 2.4 in the New Testament which we vsually translate 〈◊〉 Church Wherein hee committeth 5. errors pertinent to our question First from this in Mat. 18.17 Act. 15.22 hee â—ould make a Synod or Consistone which have answered before pa. 108. c. Seâ—ondly a Nationall Church of the Iewes Act. 7.38 Which likewise I have anâ—wered in Reas. for Reform pag. 5. in the margin Thirdly Christian Nationall Churches in the nober plurall as he speaâ—eth namely in Rom. 16.4 1. Cor. 16.1 â—9 2. Cor. 8.1 Gal. 1.2.22 Which places â—e abuseth perverteth most rudely and desperatly The wordes do exâ—resly signifie nothing but a nomâ—er of Ordinarie Congregations Such wee meane by Parishes â—ath of them assembling in one â—lace or at most contayning “ See my Declarat pa 10. and 18.19 28.29.31.32 no mo ordinary assemblies then one and he without yea contrary to the expresse â—etter fancieth to him selfe a Nationall Church from no ground nor shew of ground in these places Fourthly he bringeth Act. 5.11 and 8.1 and 11.12 and 12.1.5 and 13.1 and 14.23 20.17.28 1. Cor. 1.2 2. Cor. 8.23 2. Thes 1.1 1. Tim. 5.16 Iam. 5.14 Apoc. 1.4.11.20 and 2.1 c. to prove a Church of a Citie and Country adioyning Where his error is like to the former What should I say to this man Not one of all these signifyeth a Church of a City and Country adioyning if he meane it to be extended or intended to mo ordinarie Congregations then only one Which is his meaning It is true the Churches of these Cities heere specifyed viz. of Ierusalem Antioch Ephesus Corinth Thessalonica c. might have meÌ„bers then which dwelt scatteringly and some a good way of from the place of their ordinarie maine meeting and such also as did assemble often in divers vncertain companies as in times of trouble there is reason it often commeth to passe but yet in those primitive times they all in each Church then made no mo but “ Which
their trust in the living God “ Chap. 2.13 They digge to themselves pits that can hold no water It is true the Vniversall and perpetuall practise of Christs Church is to bee held alwayes good and holy This I grant but it is because such practise evermore hath the Apostles plaine writing for it and with it Which the Churches said practise can not bee destitute of But yet suppose our adversaries had som kind of general consent of men for theÌ„ as they pretend seeing they can not indeed produce the Scripture more then the Papists do who also preteÌ„d the like Vniversal consent for their turne or suppose that they do but pretend all this Vniversalitie perpetuitie beeing far from it indeed then why I praâ— should not we answer them as D. Bilson somtime answered the said Papists Saying “ Answ to the Seminar part 4. pa. 360 If you want the foundation of faith and religion he meaneth the Scripture in vaine you do seeke to make a shew of Catholicisme with such patches and pamplets c. When you muster the Fathers to disprove the Scriptures and to establish an vnwritten faith vnder the credit of traditions you corrupt the Writers and abuse the Readers †Pag. 362. Nowe cite not only 9. but 9. skore Fathers if you will for Traditions the more you stir the worse you spcede “ Pag. 300. Truth hee meaneth the Scripture is authoritie sufficient against all the world * Pag. 301. One man with truth is warrant against all the world yea every private man for his owne person may embrace Gods Lawes whosoever say nay And as Tertullian hath against this no man may prescribe nor space of time nor patronage of persons nor privilege of places “ Pag. 299. Though the whole world pronounce againe the word yet God will bee true and all men lyars †Pag. 384. God speaketh not now but in the Scriptures How excellently are these things written if he himselfe and his associats would followe the same or would suffer vs to follow it The effect wherof is that not only wee are bound evermore to holde fast Gods word and never to admit the carnal reasoÌ„ of Humane consent in Divine matters such as our questioÌ„ of the forme of Christs Church is but also it notifyeth D. Bilsons open coÌ„tradictioÌ„ to himselfe who presseth hardly against vs that which hee denyeth to the Papists Is God an accepter of persons Is it ill for Papists to plead Vniversall consent and yet must we content our selves with it rest thereon Shall he say to vs “ Perp. gov pag. 223.235 Is not the whole Church a lawfull and sufficient witnes in that case And that it is enough †Pag. 228. if any christian persons deserve to be credited And yet shall he say to Papists “ Lib. 4 38â— It is alike Haereticall to believe without Scripture aâ— to believe against Scripture Yea even to ourselves when hee list hee can say †Perp. gov pag. 286. Make vs good proofes out of Scripturs or leave tying Gods ordinances to your appetites Wherfore we must crave leave in our cause also to answer him and all of his minde with his owne words afore rehearsed And likewise with D. Rainold that “ Cons 257. No Humane proofe is sure in Divinitie †Pag. 19â— Truth is not to be tryed by consent of Fathers “ Pag. 45â— For my selfe I assure you that neither dead nor quicke Fathers nor children shall perswade me any thing in matter of religion which they cannot prove by Moses the Prophetes or which hee meaneth by the Apostles writings Now thus the Churches Vniversall perpetuall consent beeing no good proofe in Divinitie the whole Churches consent at some time only is a proofe much worse and by no meanes to be admitted Though Augustin in a certain place it seemeth held it good yet it is his error as where hee saith “ August epist 118. Si quid tota hodiè per orbem frequentat Ecclesia hoc quin ita faciendum sit disputare insolentissimae insaniae est If the whole Church through out the world at this day observe any thing it is insolent madnes to reason against it Certainly there have ben and may be †As sometime Polygamie was Catholike errors which yet questionles may be yea ought to bee reproved by all them that vnderstaÌ„d them Well but have our adversaries a Vniversall coÌ„sent of the whole Church at any time Alas they are far from it Neither D. Bilson nor D. Downame nor they al have alleaged neither can they alleage halfe a quarter of the whole Church at any time What then Then they are to lavish of their wordes in saving they have the Vniversall consent of the whole Church They indeed come short of it by many hundred thousandes A poore fewe God knowes they cite in comparison of all It may be they name some of the chiefe most famous in their dayes Yet it followeth not that all who lived then were of their minde D. Bilson against the Seminar lib. 1. part 2. pag. 402. Neither is it necessary that all differences should bee recorded in writing nor that all Records should be preserved come to our handes So that they are far from proving a Vniversall consent at any time much lesse at all times of the Church But what speake I of Vniversalitie and perpetuitie Let our adversaries not equivocat Let them deale plainly Let them vse no deceit in wordes nor force to mens consciences And then I assure thee good reader nothing but noveltie and iniquitie is in their Defence and assertion against vs. I have shewed before that in our controversie which wee have at this day “ Above pa. 98.97 â—â— we speak against only a proper Diocesan Church and the Bishop thereof where the peoples free coÌ„sent is wholy denyed them as it is in England and our adversaries defende namely this Diocesan Church and Bishop Of this particularly and precisely is all their †Def. 2.114 Epist to the King pag. 1 great and glorious commendation and praise which they publish Nowe to the point Is this kind of Diocesan Church and this kind of Bishop Apostolicall Have they Vniversall perpetuall approbation for this Nothing lesse I appeale heerin to our right worthy Attestators before alleaged yea to all indifferent and vnpartiall witnesses yea to the partial also in times of “ Pag. 64. 65. 66. antiquitie who do stand with vs. By all true evidence it wil be as cleare as the light at noone day that this foresaid proper Diocesan Church and Bishop were not in the world till after 200. yeares of Christ which is the time limited by vs Indeed not till after 300. Nay it was after 400 and longer also As I have shewed “ Pag. 66. 67. 88. before So that both D. Bilsons and D. Downames Defences which they have made for
the present Church-state in England even in the substantiall points of governement therein are cleane frustrat Neither is the same Apostolicall neither hath it Vniversall nor perpetuall nor indeed any old approbation among Christians as they colourably pretend But it is proved to bee novell A proper Diocesan church is novell and meerely of the wit and will of men and that after the time of Antichrists rising The contrary obiectons of our adversaries I will heere observe D. Doves 3. falsifications of Euseb as neere as I can First that which D. Downame borrowed of D. Dove viz. that Marke constituted a Diocesan Church in Alexandria But this I have shewed “ Pag. 90 91. before to bee a meere forgerie of these two D. D. grounded vpon a false translation of their author Eusebius And heere I can not but remember a second and a third like falsifying of Eusebius by D. Dove in his Defence The former of these is pag. 13. where he saith Eusebius wordes be these †Euseb lib 3.4 Timothie was the first Bishop of the whole Precinct of Ephesus in as ample maner as Titus of all the Churches of Crete Eusebius saith not that Timothie was but hee saith it is reported that Timothie was the first Bishop of Ephesus as Titus of the Churches of Crete Againe Eusebius saith not of the whole precinct of Ephesus nor in as ample maner There are no such words in Eusebius This is no translating but perverting an Author Thirly that which Eusebius hath indeed viz. Timothie was said to have ben Bishop of the Parish in Ephesus this he rendreth not but perverteth For in Ephesus is not without the City much lesse the whole precinct of Ephesus containing the large Country adioyning Yea that the Church in Ephesus was but a Parish then Ignatius sheweth writing to the whole Church of Ephesus saying to them “ Iâ—nat aâ— Ephes. When you come oft togeather into the same place c. Therfore the whole then did come togeather in one place And it is not only false but absurd to say that the like may be spoken now of the †Can they all come togeather in one place Diocesan Church of London Thus therefore Eusebius is perverted twise by D. Dove His 3. falsifying of him is where Eusebius saith of Iohn the Apostle in a certain City “ Euseb lib. 3.23 Graec. 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 having refreshed the Brethâ—en and looked on the Bishop that was set over al the said brethren of that place hee committed a yong man to him But the D. setteth it down thus Iohn the Apostle coÌ„mitted the charge of a yong man to a Bishop †Pag. 15. 18. qui super cunstâ—s Episcopos erat constitutuâ— which was set over all the rest of the Bishops thereabout As if then there had ben an Archbishop or a Bishop over Bishops So saith this Doctor as out of Eusebius But he abuseth his author Eusebius hath not such a word And yet D. Downame also “ Def. 4.112 alleageth the same place though he cunningly forbeareth to mention the words Doct. Downame further presseth Eusebius in that hee saith 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 it is reported that Titus was Bishop of the Churches of Crete As also Perpet govern pag. 233. He translateth it is recorded in Histories But he can not make that good in this place For the word signifyeth any relation or narration or report of a matter And Eusebius vseth alwayes to name his author at ful to set downe the words when hee groundeth vpon any written historie So hee citeth very often Egesippus Clemens Dionysius Tertullian c. Wherefore questionâ—es heere he meaneth some other report or tradition and speach of meÌ„ I know not whom And in setting downe such matters he is nothing curious many times as “ Pag. 91. 92. before I have signifyed Not seldom he reporteth fabulous things yea wheÌ„ he nameth his author Eusebius of no absolut credit as is wel knowen And yet he is all the warrant and ground which any writer hath either young or old for Tius his being Bishop of Crete Theodoret Epiphanius Chrysostomus Ierome c. Dorotheus Synops is not worth the naming have al their inducement so to thinke from hence All these also them selves were great Prelates or lovers of Prelates and therefore wee may holde them partiall in setting downe and receaving such reportes What wisedom then is in Do. Downame to say it is an vncharitable and vnlearned part yea intolerable impudencie to deny credit to such authorities It is rather intolerable impietie and plaine idolatrie to set vp these and such like for rules of our faith and warrants to our conscience as the D. laboureth to do in this cause Howbeit further Eusebius saith not that Titus was said to be Bishop of Crete but only so as Timothie was Bishop of Ephesus Where he seemeth to meane that both of theÌ„ were then thought to bee not proper Bishops but in the generall sense and vnderstanding of the word Bishop And so he seemeth to meane also that Marke was said to be Bish of AlexaÌ„dria whom yet he nameth an Apostle and Evangelist Iames an Apostle in deed Bishop of Ierusalem I say in a generall sense but not Bishops properly And so truly the other Fathers after Eusebius do seeme to meane and we accord thus with them Otherwise we must needes deny credit to them heerein viz. if Eusebius c. say these were proper Bishops For it is not possible that they could bee so seeing they were both Superior and also Divinely distinguished from proper Bishops as anon we shall see further where further occasion will be given vs to answer D. Downame about Timothie Titus Bishoprikes Againe “ Def. 2.23 and 116. D. Downame citeth out of Councill Carthage 3. and Ephes 1. 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 from the beginning and even from the Apostles as †Perpet gov pag. 324. Doct. Bilson before him avoucheth But both of theÌ„ wrest the Councilles For they say not so only they say that Dioceses should remaine such as they were from the beginning that is ever since Dioceses were appointed Not from the beginning simply but from the beginning of Dioceses which though it were loÌ„g before these Councills yet as I iudge it was not before “ About the yeare 260. See before pag. 92.93 Dionysius Bishop of Rome And touching the Apostles the Ephesin Council speaketh of the Apostles Canons Beeing strangely deceaved in attributing them to the Apostles as any one may perceave if hee see the Can. 4.5.8.17 18.27.47.49.65 68 84.25 Wherefore they are falslie fathered on the Apostles beeing but base and bastardly stuffe in respect of them And yet they intende no “ See before pag. 88. 97. 98. proper Diocesan Church viz. like ours in England Neither were these Canons before Constantines age So that our D. D. do argue from hence very vnworthily But D.
are not perpetuall Evangelistes are not perpetuall also Bishops yea Presbyters are not perpetuall in Churches vnder the Gospell But a Congregation is perpetuall absolutly “ Math. 16. â—â— the gates of destruction shall never overcome it Wherefore this power is essentially in the Congregation And so the consequence is false “ Pag. 77. These directions are perpetuall therfore peculiar to Bishops I say this sequele can not bee true Wherewith is conioyned an other false reason viz. They were not common either to other Christians or other Ministers therfore peculiar to Bishops Nay they were common They may bee and are exercised by divers formes of administrations as before I shewed not all waies by Bishops And yet I grant thy are to bee exercised most commonly vsually and ordinarily by Bishops I meane true Bishops His owne distinction heere is good There is †Pa. 102. 147 potestas and forma vel modus potestatis The power the accidentall forme and maner of the power It is true the power is perpetuall the accidentall forme or maner thereof is variable In which respect the consequence also of his newe “ Pa. 77. Proposition which †Pag. 78. once againe he taketh for granted once againe I deny The proofe of his Assumption we grant yet with a distinction In the Epistles to Tim. and Tit. the office of Bishops is described generally but not as peculiar to Bishops materially not formally And only so that power was to continue in the Church till the end Also this viz. materially that power was not a higher power then Episcopall But formally it was And so his consequence is false For an Evangelists power was higher yea the Churches power by whom simply sometime both the making of Ministers and Censures are performed is “ 1. Cor. 3.22 higher then the Bishops power Againe hee saith this power of Bishops is so much of the Apostolical power as was to coÌ„tinue to the end But then hee should not make the Bishops power more then the Apostolicall as †See before pag. 240. 248 hee doth Which thus also appeareth viz. the Apostles excluded not the peoples consent but his Bishops doe Howe then saith hee it is Apostolicall Besides in all this hee Equivocateth for this power of Bishops is the Apostles as I said generally not properly materially not formally Hee would finde “ Pag. 79. a difference in his Refuter but it is easily reconciled viz. vnderstanding him of divers kindes of Bishops thus Some kinde of Bishops are in Christs Testament some absolutly have noe place there The former have power from Christ the later have none After hee maketh great outcries of †Pag. 80. 81. Schismatical novelties dreames dotages fantasticall fanaticall spirits and phrensie Right as the Papists cry out Haeretiks Haeretiks TheÌ„selves being the greatest Haeretiks of all But the ChritstiaÌ„ reader may know that this is the Doctors fury malice against our Attestators before cited and against others also who follow them Yea against “ See before pag. 73. 74. c. himselfe it is some of his frindes His slaÌ„der that we maintain such popular government as Morellius strived for is sufficieÌ„tly answered †Pag. 24. before Some of the Separation I grant are to offensive this way which I am heartily sory for They take the wordes in Math. 18.17 Tell the Church more popularly theÌ„ ther is need or then reason or good order would Howbeit in this yet they hold the substaÌ„ce of the true Church-goverm They erre but in the CircumstaÌ„ce of order though it be to “ Bera Anâ—â— cat in Math. 18.17 foule That is they will examine al scandalls c. whatsoever in the presence vnder the iudgment of the whole multitude perpetually necessarily I say perpetually necessarily Wherein I wonder they see not the many very ill Consequents which wil must insue many times As touching vs what we hold heerin I have shewed †Pag. 22. 24. 82. 83. before And our Docts doe most iniuriously “ Def. 4.81 Perp. gov pag. 355. wrong Beza the Geneva discipline if that be Geneva discipline which Viret Calvin Beza taught theÌ„ in saying they differ materially froÌ„ vs. Our D. asketh Is there any shew in Scripture or in reasoÌ„ that the sheep should rule their sheapheard or the flocke their Pastor The very voice of a Iesuit not of a Minister of the Gospel Bellarm. argueth iust so “ Bellarm. de Clersc 1. 7. against the old ProcestaÌ„ts As to the point let him know that reasonable sheep vnder the Gosp have more to do in their spiritual governmeÌ„t theÌ„ brute beastes have to doe in their governement sensuall Lastly heere hee can easily skoffe and revile the modest Christian offer of disputatioÌ„ those that favour it some of vs hee will helpe to persecute but vndertake that Offer honestly plainly he never will Hee saith †Pag. 82. wee vnderstand the speech of “ 1. Tim. 5.22 Laying on of hands as directed not to Timothie but to the people to Titus †Tit. 3.10 Avoid an haeretik or excommunicat him that is thou people Which is falfe we vnderstand it not so He doth therfore heerin slaÌ„der vs. We know these words are directed to Timothie Titus yet to them not as Lords over the people nor as Sole rulers but as Guides and directors of them As Fathers to informe them not as Maisters to overrule them and force them To them therefore by name as the principall Agents in all ordinary government the Epistles and these precepts were written And so the Apostle heere held it not needfull to mention the people though neither doth he exclude them Seeing their consent in such affaires is “ See before pag. 76. Also toward the end of this chap. elswhere in Scripture sufficiently proved And the Apostles practise in this behalfe they knew well enough Which knowen practise of the Apostles it heere behoved Timothie Titus to have regard vnto togeather with these precepts written to them For they stand togeather well enough He saith the Churches at first were governed by the Apostles c. I answere they were But not without the peoples concurrence and consent as presently before is observed But D. Downame avouched †Def. 4 8â— Our Bishops at this day have not greater authoâ—â—tie in menaging Church causes then Timothie and Titus had Which is notoriously vntrue These following the Apostles tooke the peoples consent with them our Bishops do not They only taught them perswaded them vsed spirituall power ours if they can not perswade the people or their Pastors will cast them in prison punishing their bodyes their purses He saith Timothie Titus might vse the presense or consent of the people or the counsell and advise of the Presbyters in 〈◊〉 of greatest moment as Princâ—s doe in Common-wealths I thought it was a stately
the sense of the word Ecclesia pa. 109. 209. 210. 211. 308. French Liturgie with vs. pag. 50. Genevian Discipline with vs. pag. 49. Giftes no calling of a Minister pag. 162. Gualter with vs. pag. 37. 38. 39. 40. H. The world Hateth our profession and why pa. 17. 18. Helvetian confession with vs. pag. 49. I. Iames no proper Bishop pag. 238. 239. The Iewish Church governement differed substantially from the Christian pag. 158. 317. The forme of the Iewish church governement is ceased pag. 184. 185. 279. Iunius with vs. pag. 43. 44. 45. Iulianus of Alexandria the first Diocesan Bishop and yet but a Titular Diocesan pag. 92. K. Christes Kingdom commissive pag. 145. L. Lord and Lordship vnlawfull for the Ministerie pag. 118. A Spirituall Lord who pag. 118. Christ only ought to be a Spiritual Lord. p. 121. Luther with vs. pag. 31. 32. c. And Lutherans pag. 51. 52. M. P. Martyr with vs. pag. 34. 35. 150. 193. The civill Magistrat advanced by our profession pag. 18. 20. 115. 137. 313. 315. Every Metropolitan not a Diocesan pa. 254. Metropolitans in place not in office pag. 231. c. 235. 213. Outward Meanes necessarie to salvation and namely Christes pag. 150. 152. 154. 155. 194 195. 269. They who make Ministers must have Divine authoritie to do it pa. 163. 74. 75. 194. 147. Musculus for vs. pag. 36. N. We desiâ—e things Necessary pag. 18. 19. 193. The grievous hurt by Nonresidents pag. 129 To mislike Pluralists and Nonresidents are curious positions with our adversaries p. 132. P. The Palatine Catechisme with vs. pag. 51. Who cause Papistes to increase in England pa. 183. 186. Papistes more sound in the generall opinion of the Church then some protestantes p. 150. 180 A Parish in our reasoning what it is pag. 201. 202. 209. A Church no more but a Parish pag. 30. 103. 104. 108. 214. See Ecclesia Partiall who are pagt 301. In Church government the Peoples consent is Apostolicall pag. 68. 69. Evident Scriptures for the Peoples consent in church censures pag. 279. 140. 281. 282. Likewise in making of Ministers pag. 70. 164 165. 291. c. Power in the People administration in their Guides pag. 33. 42. 298. 278. 82. 83. What maner of People pag. 17. Great good cometh to Religion by granting the Peoples consent in church governemeÌ„t p. 130 The Papacie not to be overthroweÌ„ but by holding the Peoples free coÌ„sent p. 18. 156. 157. c. Our maine question is about the Peoples free consent in church governement pag. 10. 16. The Peoples necessary freedom power right in church gov what and how much ordinarily pag. 18. 22. 48. 61. 73. 82. 83. 278. Piscator for vs. pag. 46. Oâ—â— Profession giveth good satisfaction chiefly to the Magistrat p. 19. 20. 191. 313. 315 In reasoning we must alwayes speak Properly pag. 240. Some Protestants opinion holding changeablenes in the Churches forme and governement not without impietie pag. 133. 141. R. Rebaptizing refuted pag. 172. Reordayning lawfull and fit pag. 173. To receave our Ministerie derivatively and successively from the church of Rome a miserable answer pag. 170. 173. S. Who are Schismatiks pag. 138. 176. The Separation how they erre pag. 249. 280. Sole governement pag. 252. Succession a popish reason pag. 238. The Archb. with vs spiritually Sapreme pa. 119. â—ynods some lawfull Apostolike necessariâ— 116. 117. 179. Some not Apostolike nor lewfull p. 31. 48. 100. c. 111. c. 117. 178. A Synod absolut induceth a Pope p. 105. 110. 111. c. 179. T. Tertullian proveth not a Diocesan church or Bishop pag. 233. Tilenus for vs. pag. 43. 164. 166. Timothie and Titus no proper Bishops pag. 241. 264. Toleration of vs not vnmeet e. pag. 137. 193. 194. 195. 318. V. Viret for vs. pa. 28. 29. No Vnitie by Diocesan or Provinciall Churches and Bishops pag. 174. 176. 188. Gods written word the true cause of Vnitie pa. 175. 176. After Gods word the Magistrates helpe is the chief cause of Vnitie pag. 177. 315. The hurtfull error of some Protest antes granting one Vniversall Visible Church vnder the Gospell pag. 112. 181. 182. 189. 190. A Vniversall Church Visible induceth a Pope pag. 112. c. 181 c. 187. 189. To deny the peoples consent in Church governement to be a Divine ordinance bringeth in a Vniversall Church Visible pag. 157. 180. 189. and by a likely consequence will set the Pope above the King pag. 191. 192. Vniversalitie a popish reason pag. 221. 222. 223. Some Vniversall errors pag. 233. W. D. Whitaker for vs. pag. 47. 106. 107. Z. Zuinglius for vs. pag. 29. 30. 214. 215. 216.
is true another ground thereof there is likewise that of no lesse importance in this matter which is That Christes true Visible and Ministeriall Church vnder the Gospell consisteth not of many ordinarie Congregations but only of one Which I have at large prooved to be a truth and have made it manifest in my Declaration pag. 10.11.12 c. and in Reas. for Reform pag. 19.20 65.66 And againe †Chapt. 8. heere after I do shew it further Yet the former point in some respect may bee thought rather the chief because this secoÌ„d is a depeÌ„dant on the former followeth by a necessarie consequence from it as partly is shewed in the said Declarat pag. 13.14 and more fully in the VII Chapt. of this present Treatise insuing Againe that requiring the peoples free consent noteth Christes Visible Churches nature and essence intensivè The Churches nature intensivè as the Scholes do speake that is it sheweth thâ— ground of the power and life thereof The other sheweth the essence of it extensivè Extensivè that is the largenes of the Body of the Church iust extent or the due limites and bounds thereof outwardly Wherefore that requiring the peoples free consent is manifestly a most proper and speciall Argument in our cause and such as toucheth the quicke in the matter of the said reformation most neerely D. Downame erreth greatly in his late Defence making his first booke thereof full long tedious only to disprove Lay Elders as he calleth them Thinking without all reason that if hee speed well therein he hath gotten the victorie Wherevpon hee most fondly inferreth thus “ Defenc. 1. pag. 62. Who seeth not that the disproofe of their Presbyteries is a direct proofe for our Bishops And in another place * Defenc. 2.2 Who seeth not that vpon the overthrow of the Presbyteries the governement by Bishops is necessarily inferred Who seeth not Verily neither hee nor any man living seeth it Hee was tolde sufficiently by his Refuter †Ibid. pa. 10. of this his vaine and frivolous inference But hee seemeth so in love with his owne folly that he caÌ„ indure no maÌ„ to shew him his errour Nay such a minde hee beareth that in his Defence he goeth about with pretended Logike to make this his idle conceit seeme reason and therevpon hee saith his adversarie must “ Defen 1.6 confesse him selfe ignorant in Logike if hee will deny this his inference And so ‡ Pag. 62. this passage concerning Lay Elders he hopeth will be acknowledged not to bee impertinent Never a whit truly The question of Elders wholy impertinent For this passage still is not only impertinâ—nt and idle but even a false defence of those whom he peadeth for if he will yet holde his opinion still He hath not Logike at commaund neither can hee by his Sophistrie amonge men of anie vnderstandinge make that to seeme which is not Where hee saieth it is “ Pag. 61. presupposed on both sides it is his folly to say so And in saying his Refuter witnesseth it hee grosly abuseth him He doth the contrarie in the same place which hee alleadgeth out of him For the Doctor leaveth out his Refuters wordes presently following those which hee alleageth Which later words are flat against him So iustly and truly our Doctor dealeth in his writings Like to this is his great boast which hee maketh heere in his booke and often afterwards also viz. that he hath found out twoo sortes of Disciplinarians as his wisedometermeth them one “ Defenc. 1.60 and 2.147 elder and more learned the chiefe of whom he saith are Calvin and Beza Another new shallow and ignorant sort of whom he maketh †Defenc. 2.2 82.130 Maister Cartwright chiefe adioyning others of vs since vnto him But what difference â—ndeth hee in these Disciplinarians â—orsooth the elder he saith holde â—resbyteries in Cities to governe â—hole Dioceses and Provinces and â—erein he avoucheth “ Defenc. 2.2 they ioyne with â—e Bishops in England against the new sort of â—isciplinarians The new sort * Defen 1.60 boldly and â—â—noranâ—ly hold Parishionall Presbyteâ—ies Naythis Doctor slandereth either â—gnorantly or maliciously For wee whoÌ„ he maketh of the new shallow â—nd ignorant sort we I say Wee agree with Calvin Beza in substance differ not â—ne haire from Calvin and Beza touâ—hing the substance of this matter We as they they as we do acknowâ—edge both the one and the other that â—s both the Parishionall and the Dioâ—esan Presbyteries yea the Provinciâ—ll and larger too if occasion serve â—t is false which he imputeth to Calvin â—nd Beza that they maintayne the Church-governement by Diocesan Provinciall Presbyteries absolutly without any relation to the peoples â—onsent in the ordinarie Congregations Also that heerein they ioyne with the Bishops in Englande or that they materially differ from vs. All which God willing we shal shew to be vntrue and that most cleerely in the 3. Chapt. also in the 7. 8. here following Wherefore these be all slanderous forgeries of the Doctors devising of purpose to make our innocencie odious by all the shifts be can to cast some “ Defen 1.53 colour of iust cause or shew of reason for his leaving of our acquaintance Wherefore D. Downame left his first profession to whom heeretofore he ioyned him self namely while there was som expectation of his Maiesties favour towards vs. And this is fully enough for answer to the substance of his whole first booke Seeing to trouble our selves much with impertinent stuffe would be in vs also great folly Yea to speake the truth the prosecuting of all the rest of his Defence besides is such likewise that is cleane from the maine purpose toucheth not the chiefe question betweene vs. Indeed he propouÌ„deth one part of the question wel in the title of the second booke of his Defence but his prosecuting of it both there and every where els even to the end is as if we denyed Bishops and their governement in the Churches of Christ We deny not Church government by Bishops Which is nothing els but lyes malicious forgerie against vs by equivocating falshood slander to make vs seeme as if wee were against both the expresse letter of the New Testament EquivocatoÌ„ and also of the most ancient Ecclesiasticall Writers where we know any maÌ„ may see Bishops their government to be coÌ„mended as from God and as the ordinance of the Apostles Which is the very practise likewise of Doct. Bilson against vs in his booke Of the perpetuall governement of Christs Church Whose trace our Doctor followeth step by step But as I said both their great and large volumes about this matter are nothing els but two heapes of equivocations or sentences wholy impertinent such as we admit with them or some conclusions wherein they plainly contradict theÌ„selves elswhere Little cause therefore had