congregation Yea I adde A member of the visible Church whereas he was no better then a heathen before and the Churches of New England say with me Though Mr. H. say That never one of them said any such thing And sure this is one Church-covenant by which persons are made fixed members of a congregation Ergo they are by this covenant made members of the visible Church whereas they were as pagans before But there is another Church-covenant by which pastor and people are married and every member so married as they cannot act as Church-members without their own congregation and he cannot act as a pastor toward any but toward his own flock Hence a new Quaere Whether there be two different Church-covenants 3. It s without question that the family of Abraham was Gods covenanted people before circumcision was instituted Gen. 17. nor is there any ground for a formal Church-covenanting among themselves And it speaks against all Scripture to say there was a Church covenant in Egypt and in the Wilderness Exod. 19. 1 5. for they were not made Church-members for members they were before by these covenantings with God And this is Mr. H. his own consequence They are members before they chose their Pastors Ergo. So I retort Mr. H. If this covenant difference the visible Church from the invisible as the formal cause then there have been no visible Churches since the Apostles times till now Now the Churches saith Mr. H. in England Holland c. have the implicit covenant at their practice evidenceth Ans. Yet it must fâ—…ow since presbyterian Churches believe and practice juridical power without the bonds of a single Independent Church in divers associate Congregations 2. And do not contend for but are against really supposed Saints as only constituent members of the visible Church and in the causes internal and external And 3. are so contradictorious to Independency there have been no Church according to the rule of the word since the Apostles dayes 2. If an implicit covenant suffice we shall find popish Churches to have much of that Mr. H. Though many unwarrantable wayet convey this covenant yet it self may be warrantable Ans. If by ways Mr. R. mean as he doth wayes inseparable causes pillars means and undeniable consequences the covenant must be the more unhappy as the unlawful wayes of the Mass the lifting up of the bready God and Idolatrous Ceremonies inseparably conveying it render it unlucky Mr. H. It is a dream to say that when the Apostles came to plant Churches that private men not the Apostles converted them Where is the man of ours that will affirm that all All are converted by private Christians Ans. The reply auswers not a whit to the Charge of Mr. R. now when the Apostles are not 2. The Apostles by our Brethrens way are not Pastors so much as extraordinary nor publick men for extraordinariness destroys not the nature of Pastors and to our Brethren Pastor and flock are relatives but the heathen are no fed stock nor these who now teach the Gospel to the heathen Apostles nor Pastors 3. These who teach that now Apostles ceasing Pastors as Pastors convert none according to the revealed command of Christ but pre suppose all are converted before they be admitted members they convert not as Pastors Ergo they must convert them as no Pastors Ergo they convert them as private men except there be a middle preacher between a preaching officer and a private man but this every where is taught by our brethren now this middle uncalled man must be the ordinary converser of all 2. Mr. H. teacheth that the Church homogeneal in ordinary now when there are no Apostles is before Baptism and Ministry now this Church is all the visible sovieties of confederate converts on earth Let Mr. H. tell us who converted them not Pastors for they are a framed Church in esse and operari the Fathers and sole Creators of all Officers Mr. H. It is unwarrantable to say Pastors now convert not Indians and Heathens saith Mr R. It is warrantable enough saith M. H. Answ. Enough is a feast Converters of Heathen now are either Apostles Evangelists or Ordinary Officers and Pastors or of some middle new Officers this latter cannot without Scripture be said not the former for they want the gift of tongues and miracles nor are they ordinary Pastors For Pastor and flock saith Mr. H. Shepherd called and Church chusing Husband and Wife are Relatives But Indians are no chusing Church Mr. H. Men must be satisfied in conscience of the conversion one of another saith Mr. R. Ans. To reasonable charity they should saith Mr. H. and no doubt it was in Ananias Saphira Ans. But their long conversing together for this satisfaction Mr. H. bringeth down to two poor experienced Witnesses Magus and Iudas for every one must witness of another and that witnesses were called and judicially deponed that all the 3000. Act. 2. and all Iudea and all round about who were baptized Matth. 3. 3 4. Mark 1. 5. Luk. 4. 21. were real converts who can believe except you believe for so saith Mr. H. Mr. H. What is all this to overthrow the covenant Ans. Very much for it destroyes the Ministry for though some private Christians may convert some yet no man can shew me by our brethrens way that pastors now do convert any at all contrary to Mat. 28. 19 20 Rom. 10. 14 15. Eph. 4. 11 12 13. 1 Cor. 3. 5. 2 Cor. 5. 20. Act. 26. 16 17 18. or if they convert any they do it not as pastors M. H. They which have no Church-power can put forth no Church power but such as Churches to other Churches Ans. The proposition is weak they put forth an act of love of counsel of approbation of conjunction as well as power Mr. R. grants one single Congregation to have no power over another many Churches sent to Parliament to declare their judgement may approve of their determinations if holy if not may confute them yet they have no Church-power over the Parliament Ans. 1. My argument is mistaken many Churches suppose mine have not power by this way to receive in one Church nor Iames Cephas and Iohn power to receive authoritatively Paul as they do say Calvin Pelicanus Pareus Piscator Diodati Beza yea Ierom also before them Mr. H. If Mr. R. constâ—ue a token of consent consensionis to be a Symbole of authority it is beyond my understanding Ans. Mr. R. never understands private consent or private counsel such as one private man or woman may give to another private person of their own or of another congregation to be publick authority but I acknowledge a publick authoritative and Aopstolick consent to be in Iames Cephas Iohn and their meaning was Brother Paul our counsel as Brethren is and our consent you be a Preacher but we have no Apostolick authority from the Lord to own you as an Apostle
do one way and the Elders another way So 2 Cor. 2. 7. Ye ought rather to forgive him and comfort him Sure women children of age and servants to whom he writes were to forgive in their way for to them he determined to come 2 Cor. 1. 15. They were a part of his rejoycing v. 14. they were anointed established sealed by the Spirit v. 21 22. as well as the men and Elders And say the word of confirming their love were an authoritative word as it is Yet it is so as applied to the Elders not as applied to women As the same word of Worshipping relating to Iehovah is a religious adoring relating to David is civil reverence 1 Chr. â—9 21. The people bowed their heads worshipped the Lord and the King 1 Sam. 12. 18 All the people greatly feared the Lord and Samuel Though they were two really distinct actions And this cannot be denied by Mr. H. who gives to the Elders an official power of jurisdiction to the Brethren a judicial power of judgment Ergo they excommunicate not one and the same way 6. Yes and Paul writes to Timothy not as to a Christian simply but as to a Pastor representing the company of Elders as Christ speaks to Peter Mat. 16. as to a Pastor to take heed to Doctrine and reading 1 Tim. 4. 14 16. What Widows 1 Tim 5. 9. What Watchmen 1 Tim. 3. 1 2. 2 Tim. 2. 2. 1 Tim. 5. 17 22. What Deacons 1 Tim. 3. 10 11. there should be in the Church How he should rebuke preach Now this way the people should be warned how to preach how to rebuke not to lay on hands suddenly to save themselves and others by preaching if they have a joint power of ruling with officers It is true he writes to Timothy as to a Christian to flee the lusts of you hâ— but in order to the Ministry that he may be an example to the flock 2 Tim. 2. otherwise women children come to age servants are to flee lusts and to follow righteousness faith love peace c. yet they are to exercise no jurisdiction 7. Tell the Church cannot bear this as Mr. H. would say tell first the Church of Officers and people when the officers are too ordinarily grievous wolves seducers blind guides Idol-shepherds Act. 20. 29. Mat. 7. 15. 2 Pet. 2. 1 2. 1 Iohn 4. 1. Rev. 2. 14 20. T it 3. 10. Ier. 23. 9 15. Ier. 14. 14 15. Isa. 56. 10 11. Mich. 3. 5 6. Zach 11. 8 15 16. Then must the keys and power of binding and loosing be firstly in the people not in the officers who are separable adjuncts as our brethren say the garments of the Church not parts of the Church as garments are not parts of a man Lastly Mr. H. cannot build his new house but by raising the foundation stones of all our worthy Protestant Divines and Fathers who prove that the Pope should hear the general Council from Matth. 18. So Chrysost. hom 85. in Ioan. Orig. hom 7. in Ezek. August Ssrm. 49. de ver domini Cyprian Iewel Apolo c. 8. div 2. page 55. Tho. Mort. Appel Protest l. 4. c. 2. sect 8. page 451. 452. Aene. Sylv. in Gest. Conc. Basil. fol. 5. 51. Rom. Pont. non audist Eccles. Christum non audiet And Riv. Catho Ortho. To 1. Tract 1. q. 8. Papists that are sounder as Gerson Almain Occum Cusanus Contarenâ—â—s Caâ—etanus Ferus Toletus Menochius Maldonatus c. say the Pope is a Brother and ought to hear the Church Mr. H. The Angel of the Church of Ephesus stands for the whole Church saith Mr. R. Ans. See how strangely shall that sound To the Angel of the Church of Ephesus i. e. To the Church of the Church of Ephesus Ans. This is a poor consequence it is known there are often two Tropes in one word The word Angel being put for many Angels as Didoclavius and other learned Authors from Psal. 34 7. prove And then these many overseers are put for the Church and rebuked in the people and the people in them When an Embassador speaks to the Parliament he speaks to England and when he speaks to the Speaker he speaks to the Parliament Will it follow the Embassador speaks to England of England A headless conceit and such quirks make a cause to be suspected so when one offended tells the Church he but tells the brethren of the Church and this is the Church of the Church And if women sons servants be excluded as Mr. H. excludes them then he tells the Church of the Church Mr. Parker though not far from our Brethrens way hath said the very same for which Mr. H. refuteth Mr. R. And if Mr. Parker shews my mind in that when Mr. H. refutes therein M. Parker I yield but he contradicts Mr. Parker Mr. H. It is said Acts 18. 22. Paul saluted the Church at Jerusalem it cannot be thought in reason that the Elders only were saluted because the scope of Paul was to confirm the hearts of the Disciples and therefore had an eye to the weakest and those that wanted his sweet refreshing who heard of his arrival and assembled to give comfortable entertainment to him and to be comforted by him Ans. The Argument must then be thus if any Paul saluted and kissed for so is the original word as many as he confirmed and encouraged in the way of grace at Ierusalem But he confirmed in that way all and every one man woman servants rich poor Ergo he kissed them all and saluted them all Let Mr. H. see to the conclusion it is all his own 2. The Argument is not brought to prove that the word Church there noteth precisely only the Elders Nor does Mr. R. alledge it upon that account precisely but that the word Church may note some eminent professors and note a Church of all men women children yea the thousands who meet in sundry places by the grant of Mr. H. came not out to meet Paul and were saluted of him for to be saluted was but a matter of courtesie though Christian but to be comforted and confirmed in the faith is another thing Mr. H. The word Church in the Hebrew and Greek used by the Septuagint notes the Rulers of the Church not always the body and it is granted without any hurt to our cause Ans. Since the signification of words and of the word male- Church as Moses and the Prophets use them is frequently followed in the New Testament by the Evangelists and Apostles it is clear our Saviour Mat. 18. departed not from the received signification of the words in the Old Testament used by the Septuagint And so the word Tell the Church hath a better warrant to be expounded Tell the Rulers then tell all the faithful men women children and servants therefore the suspicion is so strong as Mr. H. said that there is no parallel Text for this signification of a male-Church excluding women and officers who
organick body but it hath power to edâ—fie it selfe as totum essentiale Ans. Christian edifying one of another in divers congregations 1 Thes. 5. 12. Col. 3. 16. Heb. 3. 13. by women and children of age we deny not but a Church edifying without Pastors or a perfecting of the body without officers Eph. 4. 11 12. 1 Cor. 12. 12 13 28. 1 Cor. 14. 4 12. we find not 2 Your male-Church edifying without Pastors must also edifie as an organical body In it women and children be silent and some unofficed brother teach pray and preside in the creating of officers and do the like when the Officers turn grievous Wolves and are to be cast out for then some unofficed brother must be Mouth and Organ to the rest and that is the very charge that Peter sustained in pastoral preaching at the creating of an officer and the Apostle Matthias Act. 1. 15. Mr. H. Let Mr. R. tell how God set teachers in the Church if teachers be before the Church Ans. Let Mr. H. tell how God giveth breath to them that walk on the Earth Isa. 42. 5. Was there breath before there was a living man walking on the earth or was there a living man walking on the earth before there was breathing Teachers are before Converts as Fathers are before Children Iohn Baptist and the Apostles were before such as they converted to the faith and baptized Noah before the Vineyard which he dressed God planted Apostles and Teachers even in the organical politick Church before it was a politick organical Church for by setting Organs in the body he made it an organical body but it is a senseless inference Ergo these Organs who are both Organs and Fathers and causes procreant of the Church had no being before the politick Church had being for natural organs in a physical body are only organs but not causes of the natural body but politick organs may be both and in this case are both Mr. H. To these are the Keys promised who are Stewards of the mysteries of God 1 Cor. 4. 1. servants of his house 2 Cor. 4. 5. Ans. The Servants are Pastors and Teachers in these places then the ruling Elder shall bear no Key Ans. Yet the conclusion is strong against the unofficed bearers Mr. Cotton the New England Discipline and Paul are herein as much crossed as I am for to them the ruling Elders are Stewards applying in censures in the external Court of Christ the Word as the Teachers apply it concionally Mr. Cotton makes the ruling Elders to be included with the Teachers of Ephesus Act. 20. And by the Argument Mr. H. may deny office-power of overseeing the house to all but to such as labour in the Word and Doctrine Mr. H. The places Isa. 9. 6. Revel 3. 7. speak of Monarchical power in Christ onely and prove not the point of delegated power Ans. Nor did I bring them for any other end but to prove that the Keys whoever bear them Head or Servants do signifie a power of office steward Oeconomus Commander of the Castle and so are never given to unofficed brethren for which cause I brought Fathers Doctors Divines Protestants Learned Papists saying the same And Mr. H. passes them all without an answer So the Learned Pagâ—in Mercerus Shimlâ—rus Buxtorf Ark of Noah Mr. Leigh and all Dictionaries expound the word 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 when given to House Prison Gaol Kingdom and Stephanus 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 and Mr. H. dictates against the authority of all the Learned Interpreters and Linguists and tells us besâ—de an office power it noteth Matth. 16. a judicial power of the spouse and wife to admit unto or reject out in the family as cause requires But 1. one word of Scripture he gives not 2. Nor saith Christ Matth. 16. any such thing as he gives the Keyes to the Church upon the Rock as the formal subject though it may be gathered he gives them for that Church as the object and final cause Mr. H. To these Mat. 16. doth Christ give the Keyes to whom be giveth warrant and official authority for actual exercising of opening and shutting but this he giveth to Peter as representing Teachâ—rs and Elders to thee will I give c. whatsoever thou shalt bind on earth c. So Mr. R. Ans. All may be granted and the official authority may be formally in the officers and originally and virtually in the Church 2. The proposition is fallâ— to wit to them the power of the Keyes is given firstly to whom warrant and official authoritie is given for the exercise of the same Keyes for the power of the Keyes is larger then office-power Ans. 1. My Argument is yet wronged to the same person to whom he promiseth the power or keyes or the power in its essence actu primo to the same person he promiseth shall exercise the specifick acts of the power and the second acts that must be the first formal subject to which God proâ—iseth a â—…sonable soul and the second and specifick acts of discoâ—rsing and that must be essentially a man Now unofficed brethren are not Embassadors but they are onely these to whom the Embassadors and officers are sent 2. By Mr. H. the â—eyes must in their official power begiven to Peter as representing the Guides â—nd also the power of the Keyes in the power of ruling must be given to Peter as to the first subject representing believers If the Text speak this it is a new conceit that never an Interpreter dreamed of and it must be made out that Peter iâ— spoken of in the Text in that â—â—ofold relation but that Peters binding and loosing on earth are acts of office or at least include â—cts of office and acts both of concional and also juridical remitting and retaining of sin and who despiseth Peter and the officers in either despiseth Christ and him that sent him is clear and that remitting and retaining sins is a binding and loosing cannot be denied and that remitting and retaining of sin flows from Christ calling the Disciples to an office is as clear Iohn 20. 21. As my Father Apostled me so send I you receive the Holy Ghost whose sins ye pardon they are pardoned c. And that this is a clear commission to Peter and all officers in him to exercise an official power of binding and loosing is apparent by this Text if by any in the New Testament But Mr. H. against this clear Text saith here Pastors have good warrant for their office power because the Church hath received power to admit chuse and refuse officers c. But because Mr. R said they have clear commission for the Keys both in power v. 19. 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 and in the acts and exercises 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 and what thou shalt bind on earth shall be bound in heaven But though the place be clear and all Interpreters teach it yet will not Mr H. grant
for while as he watches over one he must neglect fourscore of hundreds and above 2. What liberty and power a man hath in one particular congregation as a member he hath the same in all because he is a member every where Then he hath power in choosing the Officers and in maintaining them and these Officers must be sought in casting him out Ans. What liberty and power a man hath jure habitu actu primo by the right as a visible professor in one congregation as a member that same moral right of Saintship taken in a right sense he carries about to all congregations on earth whithersoever he comes as is clear by Letters of Recommendation which I said and its never answered onely declare but give no new right to Church priviledges which our Brethren give to members by which they have right to the seals in other congregations But it follows not what liberty and power a man as a fixed nearer and proper member hath in his own congregation that same liberty and power he hath actu secundo and that he may actually exercise in all congregations for to the actual exercise of it is required the actual knowledge of him and his right and qualification that they with him and he with them may act in a Church-way in other congregations and forreign Churches And also he cannot act with that power in all congregations as in his own not because he hath not the power in habit and actu primo but both he cannot orderly exercise it and without scandal of usurpation until he first evidence he hath such power and also because he cannot physically be in many places at once as a Citizen of London hath power and liberty to do the duties of a Subject of England such as to save the life of a Subject and to apprehend a publick Robber that waftes the countrey in all cities and places in England but its impossible that he can be physically present in all places of England where his help may be useful for the performing of these duties 2. Nor will it follow that he should give hire to any but to his own personal feeders from whom he receiveth the benefit of feeding Gal. 6. 6. 1 Cor. 9. 1 Tim. 5. 17 18. 3. It is also an untoward consequence Therefore be cannot be cast out of one congregation unless the Officers of all others did cast him out for that is physically impossible God will have the Catholick integral Church to purge it self in its parts and it s no more necessary nor convenient that the whole integral Church should or possibly can pass an actual sentence for the casting out of every person than all England can convene in Parliament for the passing sentence upon every English Subject guilty of Felony Murther Sodomy Blasphemy Drunkenness Swearing c. and all guilty of these faults are both Members of either Cities Counties or Shires and also Subjects of the Kingdome of England and the Argument is as strong in the one as in the other even suppose Great-Britain were but one Kingdome Nor 4. Will it follow that a guilty person can require the convening of the whole integral Catholick Church to judge his cause for he can have no moral right but such as all in case of scandal have why he should more decline the Churches judging than their feeding by the Word Now since such a convening of all Officers to judge every scandal is physically unpossible it is not to be thought that Christ hath given a moral liberty to all delinquents without exception to appeal to all the Officers on earth for the infinite wisedome of God gives not moral power to physical impossibilities that are physically destructive to edification Mr. H. If he that is the member of one Congregation be a member of all I cannot see but of necessity it must follow that one particular Congregation must be another Ephesus must be Smyrna and Smyrna must be Thyatira for where there be the same individual members there be the same whole integral body and the ground is undeniable from received Rules Integrum est totum cui partes sunt essentiales Therefore the same members carry the same essence to the whole I assume there be the same individual members of all the particular Congregations For if one particular professor be a member of every particular Congregation then all particular professors must be so and so all of them members of one particular Congregation and so of every one Hence there being the same members of every particular Congregation every particular Congregation is the same and thence it will follow that Ephesus is Smyrna and Smyrna to be Thyatira Hence when Smyrna is destroyed yet Smyrna remains Ans. It s a pity to black paper with such Wind-mills Where there be the same individual members there must be the same individual whole or totum integrale All the individual members of a mans body either similar parts flesh and blood and bones or the Organs eyes ears feet hand and all the rest taken together as united are the whole organical body of man and so all the Congregations on earth taken together are and make up the whole integral Catholick visible Church existing in all the Kingdomes and States of the earth But what follows therefore the hand is the foot where there be the same proper and nearer fixed members the thumb and the little finger of the hand and also the same common and remoter members the same thumb little finger of the whole organical body there is the same individual integral whole so as the one member is affirmed of another the thumb is the little finger and the little finger is the thumb for all the organs are members proper the eyes ears nose of the head the fingers of the hand the toes of the feet and all the rest arms legs belly shoulders and all these same members are common and remote members of the whole body Just as Peter is a fixed and near member of this Congregation and also a common and remoter member of the whole integral Catholick Church And as all the Citizens of London are fixed and near members of London and proper parts thereof and yet common and remote members and Subjects of England Hence by Mr. H. his own Argument Where there be the same individual members thereof necessity must be the same whole integral So I assume saith he But there be the same individual members of all the particular Congregations I assume also Iohn Richard Thomas Citizens of London of York are all in their very individual natures individual Subjects of England Ergo London must be York and York must be London and Iohn Citizen of London must be Richard Citizen of Yoâ—k And contrary Again I assume the same individual thumb and individual little finger and toes and individual eyes and ears are all members of the hand or congregation of fingers of the feet and society of toes
and conditional not absolute and therefore is to be pronounced by the mouth of the Church the Pastor thus Be it unto thee according to thy Faith and Repentance and except the man really repent his sin is not loosed in heaven So then the Churches loosing from the scandal is conditional upon a seen condition of outward repentance morally sincere to the Churches apprehension but they simply and absolutely make him a Citizen of the Church and admit him to Ordinances according to the command of Christ both in private and publick Church offences If thy brother who offended repent forgive him but his loosing from the sin or guilt in heaven is ever conditional and never absolutely to be pronounced by the Pastor the mouth of the Church who cannot certainly know the condition Hence 1. the scandal is loosed in earth and heaven the Church impartially following the rule of Christ sometime when the sin remains and is bound in heaven 2. The Church may say the man is absolutely freed from the scandal so as the Church sins not in receiving him in if they follow the rule but he sins and the scandal is bound in coming in if he repent not and also as to the guilt he is freed from the sin only conditionally for the condition of removal of the scandal is seen and visible but the condition of the loosing from sin is invisible 3. Sometime the man is both loosed from the scandal and from the sin and every way loosed in heaven and earth when he both really and visibly repents 4. The Church should go as near in readmitting a fallen sinner and loosing him on earth as they can discern the Lords loosing in heaven the Corinthians seem to exceed in this 2 Cor. 2. 7. So that contrariwise ye ought rather to forgive him 5. There is more of real Saintship required to receive in again one who hath been once a member and hath fallen and was cast out then to admit a member newly come from Paganisme 1. The larger the means of salvation have been the greater guiltiness as the scandal of a Christian is greater then the sin and scandal of a Sodomite Mat. 10. 15. Mat. 11. 22. Mat. 12 41 42. And therefore the repentance of the one must be more signal and larger then the repentance of the other 2. There is not such a measure of marriage-love required of a Virgin before she be married as after she hath been married and born children to the husband nor can any say there is so much knowledge required in a new Intrant that knows not the first elements of Philosophy as in one who hath studied seven years Hence 6. it is utterly false that as visible Saintship and real Repentance as far as can be is required of one excommunicate before he can be received in again so real visible Saintship as far as can be seen must be required in members before they be first admitted But I desire our Brethren if they judge the first receiving into the Church a loosing from sin and scandal as re-admission is they will teach it me Mr. H. If Baptism be the Seal saith Mr. R. of our entry in the Church then is not this covenant the formal cause of Church-membership Ans. If Baptism seal our membership then it is after membership and so not the formal cause of it Ans. There is in my argument no word that baptism is the formal cause of our membership Baptism is a seal of our solemn installing in the Church it 's a seal quoadnos as state and feising in houses or lands is Mr. H. Though children do not covenant personally yet they are included virtually in their parents Deut. 29. Ans. If Mr. H. mean Children not born as the place Deut. 29. doth evince what is that to the purpose we have no question with any whether unborn children have right to membership or to baptism non entis nulla sunt accidentia if he mean born infants are but virtual or potential covenanters as the seed is a tree in potentia and no tree actu so must Infants be no actual covenanters but in potentia only Anabaptists shall thank Mr. H. for this for then they are not actually holy Rom. 11. 16. nor actually to be baptized nor is God actually the God of Infants but some act is required of them to lay hold on the covenant 2. The Kingdom of Heaven then is not due to them nay not a halfe salvation but in potentia But our Saviour pronounced them actually blessed and said of such is the kingdom of God Mat. 18. 14 Mat. 19. 14. Mark 10. 14 15. Yea as Christ cannot bless unborn Infants not can he say of such is the kingdom of God if they be covenanters onely in potentia and be such only Mr. H. This covenant is either the covenant of grace or different from it Ans. The new covenant is either considered according to the benefit of saving grace given in it and so this is not the covenant Or 2. according to the means of grace offered and so the Church-covenant is contained within the covenant of grace and so the consequence is null A man may be in the covenant of grace who is not a Church-member and a man may be a Church-member who is not within the covenant of grace as Magus Ans. It is a doubt to me if Mr. H. understand his own distinction of Gods decreeing and commanding will for with Arminians he saith these are contrary wills 2. My argument is this The Church covenant is tither one and the same or a branch of the covenant of grace as it offers grace externally to all to Peter and Magus or then it is a different covenant That it is different Mr. H. denies for then it should not be warranted in the Gospel if it be a part of the Gospel-covenant how can they debar men of approved godliness and visibly within the covenant of grace from ordinances for such are implicitly in this covenant 3. Some are saith M. H. in the covenant of Grace that are not Church-members and contrary true but not if they be externally and professedly as Israel was for so to be Gods visible people in covenant is to be Gods visible Church Acts 2. 39. Gen. 17. 7. Rev. 11. 15. Isa. 19. 25. now we dispute whether the Church-covenant be not a branch of the covenant of the Gospel externally proposed Mr. H. yeelds it is only he saith the Church-covenant is not the covenant of grace according to the benefits of saving grace given in it true nor is the covenant of grace externally preached according to which Magus and Iudas and all such Church-members are in the covenant of grace the covenant of grace according to the benefit of saving grace given it to wiâ— a new heart and remission c. Then this cannot hinder but when one vowes to duties in baptism he also vowes he shall acquit himself in all duties of warning
an organical body the adjuncts thereof for the members and organs of an organical body are the integral parts and so in a physical consideration the essential parts of the whole integral are not adjuncts by any Logick I know and if you take away the integral parts wholly you destroy the integral whole but if you remove the adjuncts or accidents you destroy not the subject 2. What Logick is this to make the Fathers Apostles and Pastors who beget and the Ministers by whom we believe and visibly believe Rom. 10. 14 15. Eph. 4. 11 12. 1 Cor. 3. 5. the separable adjuncts of begotten children This is strange Logick Whiteness begot Snow And this is as strange that this Church of believers is the cause and the officers the effect that is the adjunct is the cause and the children the Church of believers or the subject is the effect and the effect begets the cause and is before the cause and the fruit hath being before the tree and the children before the father for if we speak of a constant Rule as now we must do when Apostles are removed if the Church of believers be a visible Church having the Keyes and using them even to admit officers and to excommunicate them they 1. Dispense censures and govern who have no call to carry on censures and government by preaching the Word or exhorting and praying for there are no officers as yet c. If these be visible believers who are their fathers who begat them for there are no officers yet to beget them 3. Who begot them by the preaching of the Word and if they were heathens and are now converted who either did convert them or baptize them for there are no officers as yet Did every one baptize another or did unbaptized members baptize their own Ministers who are yet unbaptized and this argument must be strongly retorted The officers cannot be the effect of this Church for they are the onely causes of the very materials of this Church for officers must convert gather a flock to God and baptize them if it be true that faith comes in the Lords ordinary and instituted way by hearing of sent Pastors Rom. 10. 14. Mr. H. The Church saith Mr. R. is the candlestick not simply without candles and lamps the Church Ministerial is the candlesticks and the Ministers the shining torches and candles It s cross to all mens apprehensions saith Mr. H. that the candlestick should be no longer a candlestick than the candle is in it They are bought and sold for candlesticks Is not a subject a subject though the adjunct be not there What kinde of Logick is this Ans. It s indeed unknown Logick that officers the fathers should be adjuncts and the Church of believers begotten by them as is said the children should be the subject 2. Mr. H. will have a figurative speech against all Logick and Grammar to be a proper speech and the candlestick Rev. 1. 20. to be like the candlesticks of brass or other metal or wood which are bought or sold. So when it s said Christ walketh in the midst of the golden candlesticks the sense must be Christ walkesh in the midst of Churohes destitute of Angels and Officers Whereas he hath promised his presence to the officers Matth. 28. 20. especially Lâ—â— I am with you and by this Christ must promise his presence to blinde candlesticks and to Churches wanting officers and Angels Then the meaning of this Rev. 2. 5. I will remove the candlestick must be O Ephesus I will remove believers and that homogeneal body of Saints as destitute of Angels Never man dreamed of any such sense as this since the world was But the true sense is I will remove a shining Ministery and the Ordinances and the eight of the pâ—…ed Gospel and the Word of the Kingdom as Zech. 9. 8. Three shepherds also I cut off in one moneth Then said I I will not feed you Amos 8. 12. They shall seek the word of the Lord and shall not finde it Mat. 21. 43. The kingdom of God shall be taken from you Acts 13. 46 47. Let Mr. H. shew how the Church without the Minister is called the golden candlestick And where the Church of believers without the stars and torches is called The light of the world Godly and found Interpreters Pareus Pignetus Marlorat Piscater Diâ—â—ati English Divines The Church are candlesticks because they bear saith Pareus the torch of heavenly Doctrine So Pignetus Marlorat Piscator Mr. H. A Corporation of Aldermen before they choose a Major is a free Corporation Ergo the Church of believers is a visible Church before it have officers A man cannot be a husband before he have a wife yet he may be a man wooing woman before he can make her his wise Ans. 1. The comparison is most unlike For 1. A Corporation of Aldermen is a Corporation of free Citizens and Magistrates such as Aldermen are though they yet want a Magistrate supreme or a Major The Church void of all officers 〈◊〉 not a body capable of governing in a formal way 2. Say they want Aldermen they had by nature an intrinsacal power to choose to themselves private men to be their Rulers whereas before they were no Rulers But the making and laying on of hands upon men to make them Elders agrees not to believers because visible believers by the Law of Nature but by a positive Law of God is given to a certain number of Presbyters or Elders 1 Tim 4. 14. as is above proved 3. Say that fourty Pagans not baptized were made by the travels of some private Christian man or woman visible Saints fourty unbaptized could not make unbaptized Pagâ—… their Rulers and Pastors as they could make some of their members their Civil Magistrates 4. That Corporation doeâ— he get and create their Rulers and their Rulers who are posteriour to them did not beget them and make them free Citizenâ— But officers â—â—cording to the fixed Rule of the Gospel now when Apostles cease to be are the onely fathers who baget visible professor Mr. H. If the Church â—â—net a Church without officers then as often as the officers die the Church diâ—… also 2. When the Church for gross heresias rejecteth the officers the Church must destroy her self while she laboureth her own preservation Doth a Corporation when they put out a wicked Magistrate out of his place therefore destroy their own Liberties and nullifie their Corporation Such Arguments may seem â—nâ—ugh to cast a cause and yet Mr. R. by them can turn all aside Ans. It s unfit that a man should so reflect upon his Brethren when there is so little strength 1. The Pastors being the husband and the Church the wife sure if the wife destroy the husband to save her self she destroys her own wife ship while she labours the preservation of her self as a woman and if the Church destroy all the heretical officers is there any
he is a stranger for by this way he is an alien and deprived of their sanctuary joy and glory of that congâ—egregation both in Church-hearing believing and joy of the seals 7. By this way Christ must promise his Ministerial presence and his Spirit not always as Mat. 28. 20. Eph. 4. 11 12. Ioh. 20. 21. Acts 1. 8. and in every congregation where they open the mouth but onely in one fixed congregation With what faith can they preach elsewhere or people hear the pastors elsewhere CHAP. VIII Arguments against a Presbyterial Church taken from the Name and Nature of the Church Matth. 18. are discussed MR. H. A Church in the Gospel is never used for the Elders onely Ans. It is never used in the N. T. for men onely who govern secluding women and children as Mr. H. takes it nor for the people secluding the Elders as a governing Society but of the signification hereafter But it cannot be a binding and authoritative loosing Church Mr. H. There cannot be a definition given that will agree to a Congregational and Presbyterial Church Ans. Ergo There is no Presbyterial Church it follows not 2. As we take a Congregational Church for the Eldership ruling it is false One and the same nature of a Ruling Church agreeth to the Congregational Presbyterial Provincial Eldership and so they differ per magis minus as is said Mr. H. If the Congregations be species specialissimae of a true Church then there can be no lower species resulting or arising from them as this doth Ans. No Logick can say the Church of Boston so existing hath other species of the Church of Boston under it The hand of Socrates cannot be called species specialissima nor is the hand to speak Logically a species it is a part and an uncomplete part of the body If Mr. H. mean as it seems he doth that we make Presbyterian Provincial Churches lower species and kindes of Congregational Churches the pious man refutes Presbyterian Government which he understands not For species specialissima praedicatur de inferioribus according to Aristotle his Ramus and all Logick And O what Monsters feed we if this be true properly a Presbyterial Church is a Congregational Church or a Congregation is a Presbyterial Church for the congregation is an integral part of the Presbyterian Church the Presbyterian likewise an integral part of the Provincial but neither of them is species to other except we say Euphrates is the Element of Water the Element of water is Euphrates M. H. If every congregation hath all the integral parts of a Church then it is an intire and complete Church Ans. Therefore it is an intire politick Church in its association with other Churches it follows not But what then London is an intire city having all the integral parts of a Society Major Sheriffs Aldermen Rulers and ruled Ergo London is no part of England nor ruled by the Parliament of England VVhat Logick is this But if the meaning be that the congregation associated in the midst of ten congregations is so a city different in species and in nature from all other congregations and so married to its own Pastors as the husband and wife are so that to exercise Church-acts official acts without themselves is adultery and unlawful and so as this Church is no integral part of the body Catholick it s against Scripture and sound reason and a begging of the question Mr. H. Every integrum is made up of his members therefore in nature they are before therefore Churches before Classis therefore what each have they receive from them therefore they have no office but from them therefore both ordination and jurisdiction come from them Ans. I desider at a Syllogism Every whole Incorporation is made up of its members that are before the whole and hath power offices ordination and jurisdiction from these members It is denied by us and nakedly asserted by Mr. H. For 1. The Churches are before the Apostles Ergo the Apostles had their immediate calling and power of jurisdiction from the Churches It is against Scripture as women and children are by nature before officers ergo officers have their ordination and jurisdiction from women and children 3 Churches are before counselling and advising yea as Mr. Cotton saith well before pastorally and authoritatively determining Synods Ergo Synods have all their synodical power to counsel and pastorally teach from the Churches they came from it follows not not will our brethren yeild the consequence Mr. H. If a Congregation grow too big and therefore be forced to swarm out or in ease they transplant themselves from one place to another so that part be forced to go before others to make preparation for those that follow we then send an Officâ—r with the smaller party and the greater number remain with the rest and yet are all but one Church in our account and under one Presbytery of chosen Elders of the Congregation Ans. 1. Why do not our Brethren shew a practice of this in the Church of Ierusalem consisting of so many Act. 2. 4. 6. thousands if more then five thousands all in one congregation Was there not need that four or six congregations should swarm out of six thousands and six Officers be sent with them in which case suppose they go fourty miles to a new Colony and five congregations meet in five sundry places for Word and Sacraments here must be five Churches â—s our brethren take the word Church 1 Cor. 11. 18. Act. 11. 16 21. 22. 4. 31. Mat. 18. 17. 16. 18. Sure though they had no Officers they are a homogeneous true visible Church as Mr. H teacheth page 1. c. 5. page 5. and so here or six Churches if we contend not about names under one Presbyterial government which is the yeelding of the cause and yet at forty miles distance and yet by no will or appointment can they meet in one place O but they are all one Church in our account one congregation in Christs account Shew us Scripture for this acception of the word Church in Old or New Testament that they are one single congregation otherwise Mr. H. his account is no account If they be one Church because they have one and the same power jurisdiction officers they had before So we say and the same power and jurisdiction in nature and essence we grant but so all the congregations on earth have one and the same power and jurisdiction covenant seals saith Christ hope of glory so we agree Why dispute we if the meaning be that all these six swarmes for a thousand will be a number too great for one congregation if not sufficient are but one individual congregation though now separated by forty miles and meeting in six sundry places 1. Give us Scripture for that Church 2. Give us any Greek Author sacred or prophane that so speakes for we stand not to Mr. H. his account
Church for these that have been and now are glorified and shall be and are not yet born and that now are but none of the two former are capable subjects of the Keyes 2. The proposition is not mine nor the argument the Keys are given say I to the guides of the Catholick visible Church as to the formal subjectum first and proper and are exercised by them by the consent of the people men or women nor should any new act of Doctrine be passed or weightier points of discipline in Assemblies until the people hear of them the keyes are given to and for the whole Catholick Church of beleevers as the object and end for the gathering them in to the unity of faith Eph. 4. 11 12. and as this visible Church falleth under the intention and decree of God to be saved they are one and the same persons with the invisible Church as the body of Christ Eph. 4. 12. is taken for both the invisible body It is 2. taken more largely as the Catholick visible body comprehends all that hear and profess subjection to the Gospel elect and reprobate and the Lord gives a ministry seals and visible membership to all and every one of this body to Esan to Iacob to Iudas the traitor as to Peter a beleever not to bring all and every one of them to the unity of faith and to the acknowledgement of the Son of God but for other unlike ends finibus disparibus to save some to make others inexcusable Mr. H. If all ministerial power saith Mr. R. be given to a congregation as our brethren say under the name of a flock of redeemed ones as the body of Christ Acts 20. 28. Colos. 1. 18. Then it belongs to the Catholick Church for these titles agree first to the Catholick visible Church Colossians 1. 18. Ephesians 1. 25 26. 1 Tim. 3. 15. Eph. 2. 19 20. and so they come to our hand Ans. The Catholick Church admits of a threefold apprehension 1. As it implies a covenanting congregation of beleevers 2. As it represents the whole ut totum representative an Oecumenick Council 3. Ut totum integrale as it is the whole Catholick Church spread all the world over if Mr. R. mean the first we agree but the guides cannot be the first subject for the Catholick Church and the guides are different The second part Mr. R. grants that the ministerial power of the Keyes is given to a congregation under the name of the flock c. Hence his cause must needs suffer shipwrack that the Keys are given to the ministry of the Catholick Church Ans. That the first member of your threefold apprehension hath any warrant in Scripture or sound Dâ—vines is a meer apprehension I desire the Reader to consider the Catholick Church Aâ— 1. It implyes a covenanting congregation of beleevers give a warrant from Scripture sound Reason or Divines for that The Catholick Church is the whole body militant on earth excluding none but a congregation of covenanting beleevers excludes all Churches on earth except fourty or fifty persons 2. The Catholick body organical of man includes all the body and organs of it head eyes mouth tongue feet c. Now what sense is here the Catholick organical body of man admits of a threefold apprehension 1. It implyes the congregation of five fingers combined in the hand and the hand is predicated of this or that hand and so is the Catholick body of the whole Catholick organick body of man Or to come to a politick body the Catholick body of England admits of a threefold apprehension 1. It implies the congregation of all the City of York covenanted together and the City of York is the Catholick body of England which is predicated and affirmed of this or that City of York No man speaks so but onely Mr. Hooker that I know Since the world was no man can say a single congregation take it either in the common nature of a congregation of a 1000. or for this or that congregation that a congregation is the Catholick Church no more then the hand is the Catholick organical body of man 2. Mr. R. grants saith he that the ministerial power of the Keyes is given to a Congregation under the name of a flock c. Answ. Reade my words if I deny not that and speak onely according to the grant and confession of our Brethren 2. Onely hypothetically if all power Ministerial be given to a congregation by our Brethrens confession under the name of a flock of Redeemed ones c. then it belongs firstly to the Catholick Church i. e. to the congregation I never dreamed that a congregation was the Catholick Church and I should be crazed in judgement if so I had spoken And how the Keys are given or belong to the Catholick integral body as the object and final cause to the Guides of the Catholick Church as the first formal subject I often declare and what shipwrack or breaking of board is here let the Reader judge I difference between the Ministers and the Catholick Church by this means but that Mr. H. hath said not one word to my Arment If power priviledges spiritual be given to the congregation as the redeemed flock and body of Christ then must power and priviledges be given first and principally to such a company to which these styles of The Redeemed of Christ The Body of Christ agree first but to be the redeemed of Christ to be the body of Christ to be his redeemed ones agree first not to the Church of Ephesus nor to any particular Church National Provincial Presbyterial or Congregational but to the whole Catholick Body Ioh. 3. 16. 10. 11. 11. 52. 1 Ioh. 2. 2. and when Christ is called the Head of the Body Eph. 1. 22. Coloss. 1. 18. I shall judge him scarce worthy the name of a Divine I cannot expound the places of a single congregation 〈◊〉 Eph. 1. â—2 Col. 1. 18. the holy Ghost speaks of that Body which is the fulness of him who filleth all in all Eph. 1. and of the Body of which Christ iâ— Head as the first begotten of the dead and of the whole body reconciled by the blood of the cross if it be said the congregation in its common nature is the first subject of the Keys for it contains all the Catholick Church Ans. It contains no women aged children servants nor sojourners nor dismembred visible Saints and therefore the congregation Independent in any sense is a narrow and impertinent subject of the Key and this is shipwrack really to the cause of Mr. H. as for that that the Church Cant. 6. is a congregation in general and that the Church is one there genere in kinde it s against the Text. 1. The congregation is not one but hath threescore Queens fourscore Concubines Virgins without number who are integral parts of that one Catholick Church ver 8. but essential parts of a congregation
Church catholick D. Whitaker saith the catholick Church contains not only the Church of our time but the Patriarchs Prophets Apostles and all the Saints which have been are or shall be to the end and is this Church which is made up of the Churches of these times visible These Monks must be exceeding sharp sighted saith Anton. Sadeel who see this Church and see the Apostles and Martyrs in Heaven 3. Nor hath Mr. H. cause to cast this signification of visible that it is taken for conspicuous and glorious Nor is it worthy the refuting that he â—aith that Bellarmin distinguisheth visible and conspicuously glorious for he must split a hair of the head as to its latitude who can distinguish Bellarmins fifteen notes many of his own side reduce them to a fewer number 2. Conspicuity of glory is but visibility in such and such ways as amplitude and multitude all the world over visibility in glory of preaching of working miracles and victory over their enemies and external prosperity which are things most visible and not done in a corner 3. Their own men speak not but as Mr. Hudson doth the Jesuits of Rhemes An. 3. on Matth. 5. explain this conspicuity The light of the World and City on a Mountain and Candle upon a Candlestick signifieth the Clergy and whole Church which must needs be visible to the World See how D. Fulk and Mr. Cartwright answers them Malderus a Bish. Antwer profess Lov. in 22. de virtu Theol. de Obj. fidei disp 1. Aâ— 10. q. 3. The Catholicks yield that the Church is not ever aequè conspicuam alike conspicuous Res. ad 3. Habet tamen suas proprietates visibiles It hath its visible properties true miracles works of holiness antiquity visible succession perseverance on the rock and this is all one as to be conspicuous and visibly glorious Gregor de Valentia Tom. 3. in 22. disp 1. q. 1. de Obj. fidei punct 7. 6. propriet p. 142 143. The Church is not adeo conspicua that it may be seen with the eyes but yet it may evidenter omni seculo conspici be evidently in every age seen known and pointed out by the finger as a City on a mountain Matth. 5. as the Sun in the Heaven Psal. 19. And disp 1. q. 1 punct 4. pag. 78 79. he proves the glory of miracles and other the like make the Church of Rome and not of Sectaries as he names us to be visibly known to all the world And Tannerus Tom. 3. de fide spe q. 1. dis 3. dub 3. n. 85. Insignibus quibusdam notis inter omnes alios coetus eminet its conspicuous and glorious above all other societies by these properties that it is One 2. Holy 3. Catholick in Doctrine Time Places And Causabon in Epistola ad Cardinalem Baronium Olim Ecclesia Catholica similis civitati supra montem positae nullo pacto dubia erat sed nota omnibus perspicua certa longè latèque per orbem diffusa sub Imperatoribus florens quorum dominatio ab ortu ad Occasum à Septentrione ad Meridiem porrigebatuâ— at distractionem imperii postea secuta est distractio Ecclesiae Catholicae ex illo tempore Ecclesia Catholica non desiit esse quidem sed minus illustris esse coepit So Iunius disp Theolo 43. Th 11. It may be there is no particular Church publicè nota publickly known on earth but that all have losed their external splendor And what this differs from conspicuity and glory let Mr. H. or any man shew and what glory and conspicuity is in the Christian Churches and what Sea-ebbings and flowings that glory hath read though all be not to be believed which some say Philip Nicolai l. 1. de Regno Christ. c. Bellarmin de notis Eccles. l. 4. c. 7. Io. Gerard. to 5. de Eccles c. 11. sect 5. n. 184 185 186. Euseb. l. 5. Hist. c. 24. Cyprian de unit Eccles. Tertullian contra Iudaeos c. 3. Vega. in opus de fid oper praesertim c. 3. Acosta Iesuit de procuratione Iudorum salutis 4. It s not to be passed that our Divines condemn a visible catholick Church only under one Pastor the Bishop of Rome the ministerial head and catholick Pastor of Pastors over all the catholick Church on earth and taking upon him to be Pastor of Pastors yea and the Church of Rome is perpetually visible and saith Valentia the Pope is the only head of this catholick visible Church The Hereticks saith Suarez deny in the catholick Church subjected to the Pope as the visible head proprietates ullas visibiles any visible properties by which it may be known from the Churches of Satan And therefore the Church must be invisible and therefore they deny omnem externam hierarchiam Ecclesiae caput visibile regulam fidei animatam visibilem all the external sacred order of Prelates the visible head the living and vâ—sible rule of faith That visibility of a head catholicâ— and visible body under that head we profess that we deny Now that the Pope should be the only Pastor of a Church which by no possibility he can see and that he is the only feeder of such a flock to him invisible Suppose he had the eyes of Arguâ— ten thousand times is that visibility of a Church catholick of a Church Diocesian which we deny and detest but we deny not but teach that the Church is visible in a right sense And 1. we teach that the catholick Church militant on earth is visible in its parts though it be not in its whole bulk and body all at once visible as Amesius who also is in some points for this new way of Independency So the whole body of the Heaven in both the Hemispheres is visible when enlightned with the Sun yet is not the whole Heaven all at once visible to any man living So the whole element of Water is visible not all at once and yet is so visible in its parts in the parts of the Sea Rivers Floods as it were non-sense to say such a part of the Heaven and of the Sea as in day light is obvious to our eyes were simply invisible in that sense that we say the mystical body of the catholick Church of sound Believers is invisible and believed but not seen 2. Therefore the Church catholick is 1. considered as comprehending all the families in Heaven and Earth Eph. 3. 15. Heb. 12. 22 23. Col 1. 20. this is the most large catholick Church consisting of elect Men and Angels 2. The catholick Church is that company of redeemed men for whom Christ died and it contains all that have been are or shall be that are clarified and presented without spot or wrinkle sanctified by the washing of water by the word Eph. 5. 25. Husbands love your Wives as Christ also loved the Church 27. that he might present it to himself a glorious Church c. and to this is the
essentials to Officers 2. The method and order of Ordination and Election 3. The place 1 Tim. 4. 14. touching the laying on of hands of the Presbytery is opened 4. The necessity of laying on of hands 5. Designation to a certain flock is not essential to a Pastor MR. H. Ordination according to the minde of Mr. R. and his method as preceding the Election of the people doth not give the essentials to the outward call of a Minister Ans. Ordo causandi non tollit ipsam câ—â—salitatem If Plate say the soul was created before the body this will not prove but body and soul are essential causes of man So because Ordination administred Mr. R. his way and method gives not the essentials to a Minister this by no Logick can cashier Ordination from an essential cause thereof Mr. H. Luke saith Acts 6. first they chose Steven ver 5. then the Apostles laid on hands ver 6. if not any but those who are elected by the people should be ordained and all such who were so chosen could not be refused then to ordain before choice is neither to make application of the Rule or a communicating of the Right in an orderly manner But the first is plain the Apostles would not take that soveraignty in ordaining Elders therefore they would not allow their Scholars to arrogate to call so Acts 14. 23. When they had created them Elders in every Church the Geneva When they had ordained Elders by election of the people and prayed and fasted they commended them to God c. then the officers had a full call and a full night to the execution of their office before laying on of hands which is not necessary and must not the setting in order things amiss be done by Titus i. e. the Officers and the Church also Tit. 1. 5. Ans. 1. Luke saith not they were elect called officers with a full call and full right before the Apostles laid on hands for Mr. R. saith they were chosen that is nominated as godly men before the Apostles laid on hands as David and Saul were both chosen set apart by God before unction and choice of the people but they were not formally chosen Kings having full royalty while as yet the people knew them not from other men but the seven men were not formally and completely chosen as officers before ordination and so had neither right nor official full right to be their Deacons while the Apostles ordained them for this Rite say Beza Bullinger Calvin Gualther Diodati English Divines used in Sacrifices was used in creating of officers 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 ver 3. to choose is a far lower word as Cyprian saith it noteth Plâ—bis approbationem Leo con sensum plebis Calvin the approbation of the people What then is the Apostles and officers part Authority official there must be laying on of hands saith Mr. H. was not of necessity required yea but its safer to believe the holy Ghost it was done then it was no unnecessary complement the cup was given to the people by the Apostles 1 Cor. 11. True say Papists as Mr. H. it was not of necessity required 2. Though there be a wide difference in the matter if none should be ordained but those onely that are first chosen as formally and completely as their fixed 〈◊〉 then election goes before ordination Mr. R. denies the connexion and desires Mr. H. to prove it yea the contrary followâ— Ergo the people cannot appropriate the man to be their fixed officer nor consent he be theirs only and this to me is only formal election until he first be ordained an officer The sick man cannot choose A. B. to be his Physician until he first be a Physician nor can a Scholar choose C. D. to be his Teacher of Philosophy until C. D. he first a Philosopher 3. The Assumption is false But all such who are so chosen could not be refused then must the Elders be necessitated to lay hands on Nicolaus though they know him to be the head of that unclean Sect of which Epiphâ—nius Irâ—…s Dâ—rothâ—â—s Tâ—rtullian judge him to be leader Why the people have chosen him then the Elders must lay on hands suddenly on an heretical Teacher a Wolf Why they cannot refuse him saith Mr. H. for The people hath chosen him What tyranny of conscience is here 4. This calling of the Deacons and consequently of all other officers if we suppose that the office was instituted as now it was by Mr. H. his way might well have been without either presence or acting of either Apostles or officers for saith Mr. H. there was no necessity of laying on of hands by the onely multitude and I require one Scripture for the calling of one officer without the concurrent acting of Apostles and officers by the sole people and can shew warrants for the presence and acting of Apostles and officers in the calling of officers especially those Acts 1. 15 23. 6. 6. 14. 23. Tit. 1. 5 6 7 c. 1 Tim. 4. 14. 5. 22. 2 Tim. 2. 2. 1 Tim. 2. 1 2 3 10. Revel 2. 2. ver 20. Acts 20. 28 29 30. 13. 1 2 3 4. 5. Be it as the Geneva reading saith as it is not yet as Mr. Seaman well observes and Calvin saith it also with Beza the officers had their official votes and are said 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 as Stephanus Mr. Leigh Theodor. Balsamo Zonaras and Bellarmine grants it and it proves that the onely people created not officers Ergo by neither this place nor by any other Scripture could they give them full right to their office See Amesius and Calvin Hence if the officers by these places have suffrages and votes in ordaining of officers as why should the holy Ghost bid prophets separate Paul and Barnabas for such a ministry and command Timothy to lay hands suddenly on no man 1 Tim. 5. 22. but on faithful men that are able to teach others 2 Tim. 2. 2. Tit. 1. 5 7 8. if officers have no official work in creating officers but only to choose them which any brother or woman may do then it is not needless that officers concur to create officers and if it be not required of necessity that they concur it must be idle work both here and in the cited places that they concur but because they did concur I have as good reason that the peoples concurring in choosing was needless though they did choose as Mr. H. hath cause to say the officers concurrence is needless in ordaining though in truth the Word of God require both as necessary Lastly For the setting in order things since these must be things of jurisdiction also we say juridical acts by no Scripture are ascribed to the whole Church except by the Church be understood the Church of Rulers the rest only consenting which is our mind Mr. H. Arg. 2. That place 1 Tim. 4. 14. favours not Mr. R. for
and predestinate to glory which if our brethren say of all the members of all these visible Churches suppose Magus and Iudas had been among them it is easie for any to prove the contrary 2. but if so be that these titles prove they were all internally converted and that our visible Church must be such or else they are falsly constituted then how shall Demas Magus find roome in the visible Church as true members since they were not such if it be said that the argument which proveth that they weremore may well prove the lesse and that they had all the visible Saintship that Magus Iudas had we shall grant that but then you must stand by this argument Such as were the members of the Churches of Corinth Rome Ephesus Thessalonica c. by these places cited by the discipline-book of new England chap. 3. sect 3. pag. 56. 57. 1 Cor. 12. 27. Ephs. 2. 22. 1 Cor. 3. 16 17. 2 Cor. 11. 2. 1 Cor. 1. 2. Galat. 1. 2. Math. 16. 16. to 19. such ought the members of our Church visible to be or then they are constituted of false matter But the members of these Churches by these places were really and internally converted and justified Ergo our Churches visible must also consist of these that are really and internally converted and justified or then they are constituted of false matter but the conclusion is false and absurd for so Christ and the Apostles erred even proceeding in a Church way in admitting Iudas Magus to be members for sure they were not internally and really converted and justified and yet M H. maketh them true members and his visible Saints it was wisdome therefore to M. H. to bury these arguments and to contradict his own book of discipline which page 57 saith that Christ taxeth the pastors by whose connivencei the man wanting the wedling garment came in friend how camest thou hither M. H. saith nay they were not taxed that man conveyed it so cunningly that onely the master of the feast pe â—â—ived it others did not discover it page 29. but all dependeth on the making good the assumption that these places prove that they were inwardly and really converted which I make good by these reasons 1. the Holy Ghost expresly saith they were the habitation of God through the spirit temples of the holy Ghost espoused to Christ as a chast virgin ergo they were really such to say that Paul speaketh according to the judgement of charity only and in a Church way is to beg the question there is not a word of any such judgement of charity in the Scripture and our brethren have no law to adde to the Scripture to help their own cause 2. If you adhere to this argument you must say with M. H. that Christ hoped and was bound to conceive by the fruits of Iudas his life that Iudas was a Saint and might have some seeds of some spirituall work of God in his soul and yet Christ saith have not I chosen you twelve and one of you hath a devill and this he knew from the beginning Iohn 13. 11 18. because Iesus not as God but in a Church-way dealt with Iudas and such I remit it to any man if Christ failed against charity except he believed Iudas to be a convert before he betrayed his hypocrisie what warrant in the Scripture for this 3. What ground that the Apostles in charity believed and said that Demas Magus were converts temples of the holy Ghost chosen to life as the Ephesians 1. 3. and Thessalonians 2 Thâ—s 2. 13. or then they had sinned in admitting them to the visible Church and baptizing them 4. Whereas he sayeth the Church judgeth not of things hid whether the Churches of New England do not judge and heavily censure though they will not give it that name all the baptized in their Church whom they exclude from Church-membership and the Lords supper all their life as if they were Pagans because they have not so much charity as to believe them to be visible converts judge reader But say they this will not prove that they were internally and really converted because Paul saith so of them to which I say then upon the same account must we expone these places Ephes. 2. 4. God rich in mercy hath loved us and when we Paul and converted Jewes and Gentiles were dead in sinnes hath quickened us together in Christ in the judgement of charity and in a Church way onely 6. and hath raised us up together and hath made us fit together in heavenly places in a Church-way verse 10 we are his workmanship created unto good works and we who verse 12. were sometimes without Christ strangers to the Common-wealth of Israel 13. are now made neare in the blood of Christ and verse 18. we who were strangers have accesse by Christ through one spirit unto the Father onely in a Church-way by politick guidance of our head Christ and the like must be said of all the reall internall work of the spirit upon the hearts of all the Saints at Ephesus Colosse Corinth Thessalonica c. so they were by this reason light in the Lord quickened had Christ dwelling in them by faith were sealed translated from death to life c. in a Church way and from none of these places can we conclude that they were really and internally converted for all these places and reall works of grace must agree to Iudas Magus and to all such visible Saints because all Churches visible rightly constitute must be made up by this argument of such visible Saints else they are false in the matter and not according to the pattern of Apostolick Churches 3. The assumption is made out also thus as the Apostle calleth them the body of Christ the habitation of God temples of the holy ghost so also he blesseth God and rendreth thanks to him that had chosen to life the Ephesians blessed them with all spirituall blessings in Christ bestowed on them adoption redemption forgiyenesse of sinnes the inheritance of glory Ephes. 2. 13 4. c. ordained the Thessalonians not to wrath but to obtain salvation by our Lord Iesus Christ 1 Thess. 5. 9. 4. had chosen them to salvation through Sanctification of the spirit and belief of the truth 2 Thess. 2. 13. and upon this buildeth their comfort and faith I Thes. 54. 9 10. 11. so Coloss. 1. 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14. now what joy comfort faith thanksgiving can have place if these places be not understood of such reall internall graces as election conversion c. as Iudas and Magus neither have nor can have otherwayes all the hypocrites as Magus and Iudas have a like lively consolation with all the chosen of God and Paul must blesse God because he had chosen called justified c. such as Magus and Iudas 4. I wonder the way of the Churches should cite 1 Cor. 3. 16. for visible Saintship which dependeth on
c. that are detestable to God not dear to God as every where the Scripture teacheth Mr. H. p. 40. The visible Church is called The Body of Christ 1 Cor. 12. 27. 28. Ans. The visible Church in the sense of Mr. H. as including Magus Iudas as such is not Christs body 2. Nothing is proved except it be made out that all and every one in Corinth were lively Members under the Head Christ in the judgement of charity otherwise it is a sinful addition to the Text. Mr. H. A Church may be visibly in Covenant which hath not an infallible assistance may erre in fundamentals fall away and not endure as the dayes of heaven and so are his first and fifth arguments answered Ans. It is I consess soon done if well Ans. It is true if men entertain such things as they call truths when they are but lies of Arminians it will be easie to wipe away all with a dry Negoconclusionem My first argument to prove that the invisible and not the visible single Congregation is the principal prime and onely proper subject of all the priviledges of special note given in the Mediator Christ is Par. 1. pag. 244 245. because that is such a subject of all these priviledges to which onely and principally the Promises belong that they are a seed enduring as the dayes of heaven Psa. 89. and can no more cease to be in Gods Covenant favour than the Ordinances of heaven can cease to be Jer. 31. 35 36. then the Mountains can depart Isa. 54. 10 c. But the visible Church of a Congregation is not such c. Judge Reader of the answer The fifth Argument Because the invisible Church of the Elect is such as cannot erre in fundamentals cannot fall from the Rock and not the visible Church of the Congregation whereof seven may be a Church and six of them such materials as Magus nor can such a Congregation bear as the first onely and prime subject these styles say I pag. 250. that are proper onely to the Elect Redeemed and really sanctified Church the styles of Christs Sister Love Dove Spouse Mystical Body of Christ. Mr. H. answers by yielding the Assumption A Church may be visibly in Covenant may erre in fundamentals may fall away And this is Mr. R. first and fifth Arguments Hence if perseverance and never falling away be a special priviledge given in the Mediator Christ and it agree not to the Congregational the onely visible Church and if it agree not to all visible Congregations then is not the visible Church the onely principal subject of such priviledges since the world was no Logick can say that a property can be denied of its first and onely subject That is a man and yet is not apt to laugh 2. To be visibly in Covenant is not a priviledge of special note that is a saving priviledge such as Perseverance to have the anointing and a new heart Of which saving priviledges I spake all along pag. 244 245 246 247 248 249 250 251 c. for to be visibly in Covenant agrees to Magus and to all rotten Members but these saving priviledges of perseverance agree not to Mr. H. his visible Church which may and doth fall away saith Mr. H. Judge then if these two Arguments be wiped away with a wet finger as saith Mr. Hooker Mr. H. p. 40 41. A Church may be visibly redâ—emed by the blood of God be called the Body of Christ the Sons and Daughters of God and yet not be really and inwardly such which is his second Argument The third is answered already Ans. This is with a hop and a skip to take away Arguments 1. Mr. H. should have done so much as repeaâ—ed the Argument But to be really redeemed to be the Body of Christ to be really to be I say in veritate rei the Sons and Daughters of God and not to be called so onely a generation of Vipers call themselves Matth. 3. the holy seed are priviledges of special note in the Mediator Christ as I spake pag. 244. and these priviledges agree not to the visible and nominal Church of which Magus is a Citizen as to the principal prime and onely subject as Mr. H. yieldeth and so yieldeth the Argument 2. A Church may be both visibly the Redeemed of God and called and be really the Body of Christ and invisibly be also the Redeemed of God by a figure as touching the sound and real visible Saints among them but that destroys Mr. H. his cause who will have all and every one in the judgement of charity redeemed even so many as are fed with Word and Censures 3. Mr. H. should have applied his answer to the Arguments but he saw it would not frame I have done it Let the second thoughts of some help here For Mr. H. must apply his answers to the cited places so Ier. 31. 33. I will put my law in their inward parts according to the judgement of charity and Ier. 32. I will put my fear in their hearts according to the judgement of charity And when the Lord saith I was a husband to Israel that is in the judgement of charity Isa. 53. He was stricken for the transgression of my people that is visible Saints and for Magus for my confederate people in the judgement of charity Ah! â—ee not men dare to adde their after-birth inventions to the truth of God Therefore Mr. H. addeth pag. 40 They who hold that a visible Church is redeemed externally cannot say by any good inference that Christ died for all such in Gods intention or that all such are chosen to glory or that God intendeth to save all such Ars. This is said not proved If Christ die for the whole world in the judgement of charity he must intend and decree in the same judgement of charity to save them by his death else he is conceived to die for them upon no intention at all I judge Christs dying for us essentially includes his intention to save to deliver from the present evil world Gal. 1. 4. If therefore this charitable judgement of Mr. H believed Christ died for all the Members of the Church of Ephesus suppose Magus to be a baptized Member he must in the same judgement believe that God intended to save Magus yea and Mr. H. must believe in charity by his death he intends to save all and every one in the visible Church all the earth over and so did choose to glorifie all the visible Saints and consequently all nations Isa. 2. 1 2. all Aegypt all Assyria Isa. 19. 25. all the Gentiles Isa. 60. 1 2 3 c. all the Kingdoms of the world Rev. 11. 15. for they are all the visible Kingdoms and Churches of Christ and charity shall forbid to believe that there be one reprobate in the visible Churches and shall necessitate Mr. H. to believe that God intends salvation and so chose to salvation every man and woman of them But
person doth also constitute him a man which is most false 2. The Texts in the assumption are widely mistaken Heb. 12. 22 23. But you are come to Mount Ziou that is to a single Independent Congregation nay read more v. 23. To the general Assembly and Church of the first-born which are written in heaven that is to a company of visible saints of which seven may be a Church saith the way of the Churches of N. E. and these sometimes say they and M. H. hypocrites such as Iudas and Magus If so then these must be called the City of the living God the heavenly Ierusalem the general Assembly of the first-born whose names are written in heaven It may grieve the godly that the word of God should be so perverted Oecumenius and Thtophylact and Galvin Piscator Marlorâ—â— English Divines Diedati Pareâ—s as also Cajetanus Esthius cal them the universal church of the elect The place 1 Tim. 3. 15. is not to be limited to the Church of Ephesus Pareus loquitur de columna ministeriali of a ministerial Church that preacheth the Gospel and so it s nothing to this purpose Calvin Beza Crâ—â—iger he means the Church indefinitely whithersoever Timothy should come let it be a particular Congregation it is made up of preaching Pastors who bear up the truth by the preached Gospel as the pillars say Piscator and Pareus bear up the house The place Eph. 4. 13 16. is meant not of a visible Congregation whose members are Magus and Iudas for Christ leading captivity captive and ascending gave not Apostles and Teachers finaliter for the saving and perfecting of the visible body as visible in Mr. H. his way which must be said if any thing be proved against us but of the body which is visible but not as visible but as he saved the Church inlived by Christ saith Beza He speaketh saith Calvin of the end of the Ministry Until we all meet in the unity of faith not that all men shall believe in Christ but he speaketh by a Synâ—cdoche saith he of the prâ—destinate only for they only come to the unity of faith who are chosen to glory Zanchius and grave and learned D. Bodius of Trochrigge in his learned Commentary as also Piscator Bullinger Sarcerius Marloratus Rollocus Diodati English Divines with the Text expound the place of the true mystical body For 1. Christ ascended for that body and sent Apostles not for Magus and such of Mr. Hookers visible saints 2. He intends the perfecting and edifying of that body verse 12. and Apostles and Pastors are theirs and for their salvation 1 Cor. 4. 21. 2 Cor. 4. 15. 3. Christ is the saving head only of that body and the visible Church is never called his body in Scripture because visible but by a figure because of the lively members among them drawing life from the head Christ Eph. 1. 22 23. Eph. 4. 16. Eph. 5. 23. Col. 1. 18. 4. He speaks of that body which shall come with all the saints to the unity of faith 5. Which grows up into a perfect man c. which is a living body from which I excommunicate Magus and Iudas And for the place 1 Cor. 1. 12 13. It 's not a single Congregation visible shew in all the Scripture where a single Congregation yea and every single Congregation never so few for were it but of seven or ten or twenty it is an instituted politick Church though wanting Pastors to our brethren is called Christs the body of Christ as this Church So Calvin Beza Martyr Nâ—â— parvae consolatio hac it is no small comfort that the Church is called Christs because it is his body for as Cyrillus saith Christ assumed the nature common to all 2. All the members of the body being many are one body so also is Christ yea thâ—se many are men of divers cases divers nations saith Pâ—rous yea Jews and Gentileâ— verse 13. And therefore this is the Catholike visible body 3. It is the body that have been all made to drink into one spirit in the Lords Supper but this must be the many members of divers Congregations 1 Cor. 10. 16. as our brethren confess 4. It is the body that lives by the spirit of Christ 〈◊〉 12. For when Christians are said to make one body it is not understood of a politick body only but saith Martyr of the spiritual and secret body of Christ which aims at life eternal and hath all thâ—se common God Christ the Holy Ghost the word of God Grace the Sacraments to wit Baptisme the Lords Supper called by a Synecdoche a drinking of the Wine in the Supper into one spirit which excludeth not the eating of the bread vâ— 13. and so sometimes he speaks of his body in regard of its parts to wit of single congregations where the sacraments are administrate and where there are Prophets Watchmen Pastors Ruling Elders as eyes and ears yet not fixed and married by a Church-Oath to one only single congregation and all along as of the Catholike visible body And it is true which Mr. R grants that a Church in an Island is a little City but so as it is a member of the Catholike visible body that hath no charters and priviledges spiritual different from these of the whole Mr. H. Arg. 2. They who have mutual power each over other to command and constrain in cases whereas they were free before must by mutual engagement be made partakers of that power But such are the Church of believers Ergo. The second part of the Assumption is clear by Matth. 18. where a legal order is set by which brethren only of the same Church ought to exercise power one over another not over infidels nor yet with other Christians for I rebuke a Christian of another Church I cannot call the Church he departs the place and refuses to come but I may in a legal way convince and bind Archippus for he is a brother and Mr. R. saith if the classis will not censure him the congregation may reject him Learned Whitaker saith That each of the congregation or counsel hath power over the Apostle Peter as a brother to censure him so saith Mr. R. Ans. The conclusion denied is not proved but this Ergo They must by mutual engagement be made partakers of this power The question is whether this Church-Covenant be the formal cause of membership visible to and in this onely Congregation and no other visible Church on earth 2. The proposition is false for before that engagement so monopolized and restricted to that one onely Congregation which were Will-worship these brethren being born of believing Parents and also solemnly by their covenant in baptism were engaged visible members of all the visible Church on earth and of this of Boston these round about where by providence they dwell they visibly professing the Gospel I deny not but it is lawful for a sojourning godly professor to promise to watch
Such places shall prove Tiâ—… thy and Titus to be Prelats I answer 1. Mr. H. and our Brethrens way shall be straited with this groundless Argument as well as we 2. We say these Epistles in point of governing as trying of Pastors 1 Tim. 3. 1 2 3. of Deacons ver 10. of Elders 1 Tim. 1. 17. ordaining or laying on of hands ver 22. receiving of accusation by witnesses 19 20. the ordaining of Elders thus and thus qualified Tit. 1. 5 6 7 8. 2 Tim. 2. 2. preaching the Gospel in season and out of season 2 Tim 4. 1 2. with gentleness 1 Tim. 5. 15. ruling in the house of God 1 Tim. 3. 16. charging of men to preach sound doctrine 1 Tim. 1. 3. dividing the word aright 2 Tim. 2. 14 15. These Epistles I say are written to Timothy and to Titus not as little Monarchs with preeminence above other Elders but to them as representing all faithful Officers in the Colledge of that Presbytery 1 Tim. 4. 14. who are to keep that command unviolable to the second appearing of Christ 1 Tim 6. 13. and they are not written to Elders as having dominion over the faith of the people 2. If these Epistles were written to Timothy and Titus not as representing Officers but as the Church representing the people yet wanting Officers and so in a Church-capacity then it should be Pauls minde that the people in that case destitute of Elders should preach the word in season and out of season as Timothy 2 Tim. 4. 1 2. and that the people in that capacity should as the approved workmen of God divide the word of truth rightly 2 Tim. 2. 15. as well as they ordain Elders and make and unmake Officers by the places 1 Tim. 5. 22 2 Tim. 2. 2. Tit. 1. 5. yea and the Apostle should not have ordained Titus to appoint Elders in every city for he should have appointed the Cities and Churches of onely believers to ordain their own Elders Yea 3. the Church void of Elders by our Brethrens way are the onely society and visible Church on earth who make and unmake call and excommunicate Officers and Officers have no hand in it but accidentally for Elders are made and if heretical rejected saith Mr. H. by the people having no Elders at all Ergo these Epistles must be written to the believers of Ephesus and Crete that yet want Officers that they may be instructed how to behave themâ—elves in the house of God how to lay on hands how to receive accusations and how to prove and try officers Yea Paul should not have written Rules to Timothy and Titus the publick Officers who by their office ought to have no hand in calling or rejecting of Officers by this way Lastly saith Mr. H. All these are granted by Mr. R. Whereas in many pages I dispute against this new visible Church and grant no such thing but suppose all the Officers should turn heretical in this in that case the people in tutelâ inculpata salutis when they turn Wolves may withdraw But I say not they can authoritatively excommunicate and make and unmake Officers and the Officers when the people turn Familists may withdraw and remove the Tabernacle Mr. H. God hath set officers in the Church 1 Cor. 12. 28. Therefore the Church is before officers The setting of the candle in the candlestick presupposeth the candlestick the Church is the candlestick Revel 1. 20. the officers are the candles Mr. R. answered It was not good Logick Ans. I yet maintain this to be naughty Logick and a naughty Grammatication and if this be the best Argument for this new conceit it cannot stand God saith Moses Gen. 2. 7. formed man of the dust and God breathed in his that is in the nostrils of the man the breath of life Ergo He is a living man before the soul be breathed in him It s naughty Logick like this Mr. H. God made man of earth i. e. the body of man of the earth and he breathed into the nostrils of that body so made by that mean the breath of life to affirm the body was made before the soul was infused and that the body which is the subject to receive the soul must be in nature before the soul is very good Logick Ans. The Logick is yet naughty for Moses saith God breathed in man a living soul therefore Adam is a living man before his soul be infused By this Logick Mr. H. will but change my consequence parallel and large as good as his And have it thus God breathed in mans body as the matter a living soul as the form Ergo the body is in nature before the soul. I shall not deny that consequence but 1. The antecedent is not the Grammatical phrase and the figurative speech of Moses as my antecedent is God breathed a living soul in the nostrils of man Ergo he was man before God breathed in him a living soul. So I desire Mr. H. to answer the like quirk of Grammar Zech. 12. 1. God createth the spirit in the midst of man Ergo he was a man before God created a spirit in the midst of him So Isa. 42. 5. God gives breath and spirit to the people and to those that walk on the earth By this Argument Therefore the people are a living people moving and walking upon the earth before God gave them breath and spirit What more absurd So Mr. H. God hath set officers in the Church Therefore the Church is before the officers So God hath set the members pastor and people eye ear hands and feet c. every one of them in the body as pleaseth him 1 Cor. 12. 18. this is as much as God hath placed single believers also for believers are not members visible without Gods setting not yet clothed with adjuncts as they call them of officers in the Church ver 18. or in the body visible Therefore by the consequence and grammatication every way alike The body or Church visible of combined believers shall be before the body or Church visible of combined believers But the Conclusion is absurd What then hath Mr. H. gained by this Argument Of necessity then when the Apostle saith God hath placed in the Church Apostles Prophets The word Church must be the visible Catholick organick Church which is made organick by such organs as Apostles Prophets so seated Like this God hath created a soul in man and yet he is a man by the soul that is created in him and is not a man before it be created in him Mr. H. Beside there 's advantage to the cause that not onely the subject in which these officers are is totum essentiale but by vertue of her choise which is causal of the officers they are there saith Mr. H. and therefore in reason must be before them Ans. It s a great disadvantage and an untruth to call the Elders and Rulers of a politick ruling visible Church which is
Elect of God have Ioh. 10. 27 28. except women aged children servants be excluded out of the number of the sheep of Christ this is a turning of the Gospel upside down to Popishly confine all the Priviledges of Saints the anointing the spiritual disceâ—ning what key will open the heart to some few male-believers 1. Aged 2. Incorporate so and so But I retort it thus To whom Christ hath given the onely qualifications spiritual of Rulers endued with power of judging those hath he called according to the rule of the Gospel to be such Rulers and they must dig their Lords talents in the earth if they improve them not for that end But the Lord hath given to all Beleevers as Beleevers of the same or of another flock whether in Churches this way or not to women as to males in some measure the anointing grace to know Christs voice Ergo. 2. Let it be observed that the tongue of the learned Esay 50. of which Mr. R. spoke to absolve and open heaven to a man swallowed up with griefe and a gift of a son of thunder to shut the gates of heaven against the obstinate and such as are to be delivered to Sathan are not required in the exercise of the keys of the Kingdome but onely such gifts as are in women is this a good frame of Church discipline Mr. H. God gives to men no calling to a place but he gives rules how they are to order and direct themselves in it But the Word hath no Canons how the people should order the Keyes Answ. Matth. 18. 15. If thy brother c. The Lord points his finger to the Fescuâ— and says Build up one another in the most holy faith 1 Thess. 5. 11 12 13. 2 Thess. 3. 14. Heb 13. 17. Rom. 16. 17. Observe those that cause dissentions among you c. Ans. My Argument is mistaken If there be Rules in the Word how Officers should acquit themselves 1 Tim. 3. 1 2 c. how Judges Kings c. so ought there to be Rules how unofficed brethren the onely Judges for Church-officers do but order and regulate judging as our Brethren say should behave themselves But this is not by our Brethrens way 2. The Reader may observe all along that Mr. H. and his way lays the Ax to the root of the Ministery for he ascribeth the Church acts of office of opening and shutting heaven of the learned Tongue of Excommunicating c. to unofficed men or then he denies that there is any necessity of such in judging and ascribes such acts and qualifications as are in women to their judging Church the very way of Anabaptists and rigid Separatists 3. Mat. 18. 15. shall make every Church-member brother or sister who are to gain by admonishing one another a Church-Judge to exercise the Keyes one over another I thought the power had been given not uni sed unitati to brethren in the Judicature not to stones scattered The edifying one of another and comforting one another and withdrawing from dividers are acts of love required of men women and of Christians of all ranks and by no word tied to those of the same single congregation but to all the Catholick Church should not women withdraw from dividers and therefore these places 1 Thess. 5. 11. 2 Thess. 3. Rom. 16. are abused 4. Ambrose Theophylact Oecumenius Paraphrastes Beza Calvin Marlorat nor any Interpreter dreamed the place Heb. 13. 17. was meant of unofficed brethren who watch and must give an account for souls yea Mr. H. expounds it of officers and yet he cites Heb. 13. 17. Obey them that are over you in the Lord i. e. Brethren of the male-Church obey brethren Mr. H The prwer of the Keys is larger then the power of office and therefore the Lord requires not so much abilities in the brethren as in the Officers Ans. The difference is said not proved 2. If God require the highest abilities in officers to the laying on of hands 1 Tim. 5. 22. to the highest censurer 1 Tim. 19. 20 21. compared with 1 Tim. 3. 1 2 c. 1 Tim. 3. 6. 7 c. then he must require these same far more in brethren the first and proper subject of all power or then the Lord calls them to highest actings and promises to them no gift to or for these highest actings such as delivering to Satan cutting off of members Mr. H. The Keys are given to Peter as representing Church guides Matth. 16. not excluding the consent of the people Ans. We so give the power radically and fiâ—stly to the Church of Believers as by them we communicate office power to the Elders though they be not the first subject Ans. Such a shifting of office-power from the Church of believers which yet is but the third part of the redeemed single Church to Elders if Christ teach Matth. 16. or elsewhere we rest Mr. H. If the Keys be given to the Church the house of wisdom Prov. 9. 1. of God 1 Tim. 3. 15. Heb. 3. 4. builded by Pastors Teachers Ephes. 4. 11 then not the Church of Believers without Pastors Mr. H. the assumption fails for a Church without Pastors is wisdoms house as we proved and is Act. 14. 23. Ans. Mr. H. answers nothing to the places Pro. 9. wisdom hath maids and a table the house in which Timothy was to walk was built by officers Act. 20. 28. 1 Tim. 3. 1 2 3. 1 Tim. 5 17 Give us a pattern of your homogeneal Church for clear it is the Church Act. 14. 23. was the Church of believers no politick ministerial Church until Paul and Barnabas with the free election of the people made them a politick Church so until Titus ordained Elders the Churches of Creet bear the name of 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 Cities and though these Cities were Churches yet could they exercise no politick actions nor frame Organs official to themselves until the first founder made them politick ministerial Churches Otherwise as Paul and Barnabas exhorted them to continue in the faith so they should have commanded them to use that radical power to create officers and not have encroached upon their power of the Keys Mr. H. Paul charging the Elders to feed the Flock or the Church Acts 20. implyeth there is a Church distinct from feeders Ans. No doubt there is a flock of redeemed and fed ones of men women children 1 Pet. 4. 2. Iam. 2. 2. Act. 15. 35. that were of late Catechised Gal. 6. 56. different from watchmen but Paul bids the feeders censure the grievous Wolves v. 29 30. but he bids not the fed Church do it far less implyes he that the third part of the redeemed was the male-Church and did or could exercise discipline over both officers and women servants and children Let us see that implyed Mr. H. If they want Officers saith Mr. R. they want the power of edifying Ans. They want the power of edifying as an
Pagans O Scriptureless cruelty to make God to break the covenant first the parents continuing in covenant-obedience and suffering for Christ Mr. H. Men of approved piety in covenant with God visibly are to be admitted to the seals saith Mr. R. but saith Mr. H. gracious men be pertinacious Ans. Pertinacy in a scandal marrs approved piety but because they approve not your way are they therefore pertinacious Mr. H. To be a member of the visible Church in general and have no particular existence of membership in any particular congregation is a fansie as to say there is a part of manhood not existing in John Thomas or any Individuals Ans. Mr. H. fansies there is a promise of continuing on the Rock made to the congregation in general and yet this or that congregation falls off the Rock 2. Mr. R. his Church-general is no abstract generick nature but an individual integral Catholick body existing in all the earth and one is baptized a member to all congregations jure and exists and dwells in one only as a man may have right to all City-priviledges and yet may reside and actually enjoy only the City priviledge of London Mr. H. imagines that our Catholick integral Church is genus and the Congregation species and if so the Church of Boston should be the whole integral Catholick Church and the little finger the whole body of Iohn CHAP. IX A new device of Mr. H. his two sentences the official and dogmatical sentence of officers yet not concional nor juridical and another juridical of the male-Church is examined MR. H. It is the office of Rulers dogmatically to discover the mind of God and the mind of Christ in convincing by witnesses the offenders and preparing the cause And the brethren have no more power to oppose the sentence of the Censure thus prepared and propounded by the Elders then they have to oppose their Doctrine for the Elders may preach it as the word of God by vertue of their office Ans. 1. Scripture tells us nothing of two sentences 2. Two Judicatures which lead witnesses 3. Two sorts of binding Judges This then is will-worship 2. No Scripture tells us of leading of witnesses to convince Delinquents concionally by way of preaching Old or New Testament not Mr. H. must here speak Rev. 2. 2 14 20. Acts 15. Matth. 18. 1. 1 Cor. 5 1 2. 1 Tim. 5. 22. and elsewhere we read of but one juridical censure by the whole Court and of one sentence If he hâ—aâ— not the Church c. they are not Apostles but lyers Rev. 2. 2. Iezabel should not be suffered to teach Who can dream that these wâ—… first concluded dogmatically or ought to have been so câ—…ded by the officers in one Court and then were concluded juridically by the male Church 3. These words Tâ—â—l the Church whether must they be then tâ—…ll the Officers that they may dogmatically determine or tell the male-Church that they may juridically determine and yet one of these bear the name of the Church by our Brethrens way Or 3. Tell the Church of Redeemed ones which is their only Church The first is our Church of Rulers which they cannot endure the other two cannot subsist 4. Who gave ruling Elders a joynt power to preach juridical sentences which must binde the unofficed brethren as the preached Word of God for they have no calling to labour in the word and doctrine 1 Tim. 5. 17 and how can they preach except they be sent Rom. 10. 14 15 5. How can rude and unlettered men who labour not in the word and doctrine by vertue of their office dogmatically resolve deep points of Heresie more than unofficed brethren and predetermine their conscience should the ruling Elders lips that way preserve knowledge and should they as the Messengers of the Lord of Hosts with the pastors carry the Word of God so binding others What they do in Synods is a far other thing for there they act juridically rather than dogmatically and joyntly with Pastors and Doctors 6. This sentence must lay bands upon the consciences of the male Church so that there is nothing left to them but to obey and can obeying and submitting to the Word leave any room to judging in an authoritative way sure by this they must either hear and believe after a popular judging or then reject and so must women and children of age and what place then is left to juridical sentencing by the Elders or Brethren yea so the Churches freedom of judging is none at all when the Church may no more oppose that dogmatick sentence than they may oppose the Word of God in the mouth of their officers and what greater power can be given to any then what is given to this Independent Eldership 7. When there is a contradiction between the two sentences which of the Judicatures must be supreme If the dogmatick be supreme they may dogmatickly determine that the fraternity ought to be excommunicated for opposing the Word of God in their sentence and who can excommunicate an Independent Church And again when the Elders themselves turn Wolves who then can give out an official and dogmatick sentence against them that must be wanting and hath not the like of this brought forth among Brownists reciprocal excommunications CHAP. X. Of Synods and their Power MR. H. Synods are necessary for union in the Churches In the multitude of Counsellors there is safety Acts 15. Prov. 16. Ans. Union in truth and peace among Churches say these Churches must make one visible Body then ruptures rentings scandals must say there is in this body visible a necessity of Government and Jurisdiction must be incident to that visible body which they deny for this union must be a professed union to speak and think the same thing Phil. 2 2. c. 4. and this is visible union and so they must meet not in their members that is unpossible and here is a visible Church meeting for Civil it is not debating advising about matters of government of the House of God So strong is truth Mr. H. There are associations of divers sorts Classis Synods Provincial National Oecumenick Ans. 1. A general Councel is before mocked as a nothing and the Brethren bring arguments against the being and nature of Synods Commissioners Representees The contrary is here asserted Mr. H. The acts must t is saith Mr. R. 〈◊〉 Ecclesiastick Decrees Ans. Ambignity darkness to binde as a part of Scripture is 1. That which is contained and clearly deduced from Scripture Or 2. that this act of decreeing issuing from the immediate revelation and assistance of the Spirit maketh that which is decreed to be Scripture in the former sense acts tie as good advice and counsel onely in the latter they tie not as Scripture Ans. No man I do not say its done consultò more darkens I brought three members to clear the matter Mr. H. leaves out the third and darkens all for acts of Synods