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A57627
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Truth vindicated being an answer to the high flown fancies of John Perrot (known by the name of a Quaker) in a paper with this inscription to all Baptists every where ... / by Randall Roper.
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Roper, Randall.
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1661
(1661)
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Wing R1929; ESTC R25526
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21,849
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25
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Baptists every where or to any other that are under the watry Element and are not come to Christ the substance This inscription is full of ambiguity and doubtfulness if he means by watry Element water Baptisme and by coming to Christ the Substance the coming to Christ the Substance the coming of Christ by his Spirit and if he means that none of the Baptists that do own Baptisme to be a Principal of the Doctrine of Christ are come to Christ or Christ come to them I answer that it is a Lye for many with my self can experience his coming by his Spirit into our hearts and yet we dare not let go the Ordinances of Christ and this we have the sure Word of the Lord to all sincere hearted Souls that have respect to all the Commandements of God and of Christ whosoever abideth in the Doctrine of Christ hath both the Father and the Son that is Fellowship by the Spirit and that this is a Doctrine of Christ see Math. 28.19 20. Go yee teach all Nations Baptising them in the Name of the Father Son and Holy Ghost Teaching them to observe all things that I command you and Loe I am with you alway unto the end of the World I shall have occasion anon to treat more largly upon this Text therefore I shall not now but you may see plainly and manifestly that it was to be practised in all Ages in all Nations and therefore this I say and testifie in the Lord Jesus that they that do keep close to the Ordinances of Gods House and do adorn it by any Holy Conversation they are come to Christ and Christ is come to them by his Spirit which is all the coming that is promised on this side the Grave in an unchanged condition as to their Bodies If thou wouldest perswade the World that a person cannot own water Baptisme have the Spirit of God thou art found a false Witness I shall shew anon though persons had the Spirit of God yet was to pass under and obey that Ordinance of Water Bpatisme he begins God dwelleth in deeps bottomeless beneeth your Element of Water whence he is utterly departed for it was too shallow for him and his incomprehensible Majesty liveth and raigneth farr above your cloudy Heavens which comprehended not but darkned his Brightness In which words instead of Proof there confident assortions and insteed of sound Arguments to prove what he saith he maketh use of Retorical sentences to deceive the Heart of the simple therefore I beseech you that fear the Lord to consider how he beats the Aire or else tells a manifest Lye If he means God dwelleth not by his special Presence in the Element of Water simply as water which I may safely take so because he calleth it your Element of Water then it is beating the Aire for who ever assorted any such thing I never heard the Baptist assert any such thing neither is he able to prove they Preach any such thing but if he meanes that God is not present with his People in the Administration of Water Baptisme then it is a Lye for the Promises of the Lord are sure he is God that cannot Lye and his counsel must stand who hath promised in the Administration of that very Ordidinance he will be with them to the end of the World Loe I am with you to the end of the World Math. 28.20 I shall not enlarge because of several Books which are yet extant wherein this truth hath been commended to the Consciences of men I would fain know of the Author of that Paper whether any men hath cloudy Heavens which may be appropriated to them for sayeth he your cloudy Heavens Oh thou private subtile and close deceivers when thou writeth again this I say to thee not to sturr up that Spirit of Errour in thee God knows my entent but if by any means it might awaken thee to return to the Lord from whence thou art deeply revolted write plainly that there may not be double meanings in thy words for know this that truth needs not doubtful words to hinder the bright â—rrayes to shine unto men but if he means by Heavens any coverings that are not of Gods alowance such as are forbidden Isa 30.1 We say so too and if so doth he not beat the Aire when the person that he writeth to own no such thing as he speaks of and he further saith He hath given them for a day of fire and your old Earth for a Consnmption in their flames If he meaneth by our old Earth the Earthy mindedness of Professors of the Truth then it may be read that God will cast his Ordinances into the fire that the sins of the People may be consumed though God may and doth cast his People into the fice yet he doth not use to cast his Ordinance into the fire but I find that though some Professors grew weary of the Ordinance of God by Earthly mindedness as in Mal. 3.14 Saying It is ni vain to serve the Lord and what Profit is it that we have kept his Ordinances and that we have walked mournfully before the Lord what doth the Lord do not destroy his Ordinances and Statutes but on the contrary commandeth the Observations of them Mal. 4.4 Remember ye the Law of Moses with the Statutes and Judgments that the Lord doth not take that way that this notionest Dreams of take this reason That wherein there is no Dross that is not to be cast into the fire but there is no Dross in the Ordinances of the Lord therefore not to be cast into the fire every Ordinance of the Lord is pure therefore doubtless it ariseth from impure hearts to say they must be cast into the fire consider this and hide the word of God in your hearts that you sin not against him He further saith you eat Bread and drink Wine as the Israelites did Manna and Water and yet in unbeliefe dyed in the Wilderness you rest in shaddows like the unbeleeving Jews though you know that in them you are but in the Touching Tasting Handling of the things that Perrish with the using I do answer that the visible Forms of Bread and Wine do remain and are not Transubstantiate yet this let we tell you by the word of the Lord that we do by faith in that Ordinance pertake of the Body and Blood of Christ Take saith Christ This is my Body drink you all of it this is my Blood of the new Testament Math. 26.26 27. And though we practise the Ordinances as they were delivered yet we live upon Christ in them and though I can not say every one discerns the Lords Body that eats the Bread and Drink the Wine for that was not found in the Church of Corinths which is manifest by what the Apostle saith 1 Corinth 11.29 For he that eats and drinks unworthly eats and drinks Damnation to himself not discerning the Lords Body for this cause some are sick c. From
which words it is plaine that some did not discerne the Lords Body but did take it as common eating and drinking and that the Lord was angry for so practising that Ordinance but the faithful Souls that come rightly qualified discerne the Lords Body and eat the Lords Body and drink his Blood and therefore for to say that shall perish to wit the Body of Christ and the Blood of Christ is Blasphemie it is my Souls desire that as the Lord hath made me sensible would make me more and more sensible of the Wretched Blind and Lame condition of such Souls that speak evil of the Body and Blood of the Lord Oh that my words might be acceptable that I might perswade some poor Souls from perverting the right way of the Lord that the Body of Christ doth not perish see Psal 16.10 Neither thy Holy one to see Corruption which all agree is ment of Christ and that the Blood of Christ doth not perish 〈◊〉 1. Pet. 1.18 Where the Apostles doth oppose the Blood of Christ to corruptable things as things that perish with the using Oh that private Indignity Emulation and Hatred they have to the Blood of Christ which I have cause to say not only from what is here said but from an other Testimony from one Rob. Gresinham who I am sure they do own said he doth thou think that the Blood of Christ that thou mightest have taken up in thy hand can wash away Sin there is one besides my self to testifie this if out of the abundance of the hearts the Mouth speaketh then surely there is very Low and Contemptable thoughts of the Blood of Christ in the heart of that Person that dares speak such Contemptable words surely the Fountaine from whence such streams do Flow is not a pure Fountaine and is much contrary to what the Apostle Peter beleeveth he calleth it pretious Blood consider this you that forget that Fountain that you was washed and cleansed by if you was ever washed Who hath washed us in his Blood Revel 1.5 I would fain know of thee oh thou high Flown talker whether the Apostle Paul Gal. 2.21 22. When he exhorteth from whence I suppose you borrow your Expression Notto Touch Taste Handle which all are to perish with the using whether he meaneth the Ordinances belonging to Moses house as the Ordinances belonging to Christs house or those that God did command by Moses surely I beleeve have ground so to do that they are those that was commanded by Moses for saith the Apostle they were such that were against us such as Christ nailed to the Cross and if so then is it not wresting the Scripture to apply it to the Ordinances of Christ in the Gospel and whereas you say we rest in shaddows it is possible it may be true in some that profess the Truth they may hold it in unrighteousness as the Apostle saith some did in his time but this I can say that those that the Lord hath intrusted with the work of the Ministry do Perswade Exhort and Entreat poor Souls that have laid a good Foundation That they goon to Perfection according to that Heb. 6.1 2. And this there Exhortation in the fear of God hath not come in Word only but in Power and Strength upon our Souls so that many can say with the Apostle Paul Phil. 3. From the 10. To the 15. Not as though I had already attained either were already perfect but I follow after c. And further I press towards the Mark of the high Calling in Christ Jesus and therefore I would perswade all that own that Paper that if they know any that are in such Condition to be perswading them not to rest in it for it is dangerous to hold the Truth in Unrighteousness likewise not to lay it as a general Aspertion upon all that walk in the way of the Lord and are as much for purity of Life as purity of Ordinances and do desire to keep the Forme and Power together and not to disjoyne that which God hath joyned lest they be found Sinners I would have no Soul to think because I am upon this Subject that I am not for purity of Life as well as Obedience to the Ordinances of Gods House I am as free to bear a Testimony against an evil Conversation as corrupt Principles yet not to let them pass but to contend earnestly for the Faith once delivered to the Saints he further saith We are in the true Water and Blood which washeth the Soul and Baptiseth Dippeth and Plungeth the Conscience and cleanseth it from all Sin which leads into the Heavens where God dwelleth and we eat and drink the true and real Body and Blood of the Lamb hereby we know it because it nourisheth us and giveth us Blessed growth in the Life and Inocency of the Lamb which was with God before shaddows were and henceforth we in it have passed and left them all as Images of Gold and Silver to be cast to the Moles and to the Batts for ever It hath made me affraid to speak sometime against such a People that should declare such things as being washed from Sin as being lead and having Blessed growth in the Life and Innocency of the Lamb and such like expressions but upon consideration I am confident both to speak and to Write although I desire to own any thing of the Lord in any profession whatsoever becauss I find the Apostle Paul prophesing there should be a people Declaring things that are not so concerning their own State and Condition 1 Tim. 4.2 Speak Lyes in Hypocrisie having their consciences seared with an hot Iron Speaking Lyes in Hypocrisie That is declaring they have Communion with God and are washed from Sin and have Growth in the Innocency of the Lamb such like when it is not so that Persons may have a high Estemation of them when it is not so neither is those things found in them and I will prove he speaks Lyes in Hypocrisie although I do remember that Water is put for the Spirit as John 7.38 39. He that beleeveth on me out of his Belly shall flow Rivers of living Water but this he speaks of the Spirit But when John speaks in that place that he alludeth unto 1 Epistle of John 5.8 There are three that bare Record on earth the Spirit the Water and the Blood That it cannot be the Spirit not that I beleeve he hath the Spirit no for this I â—estifie that he that hath the Spirit of God saith not that he hath cast the Ordinances of God to the Moles and to the Batts for evermore my reason is this because the Spirit is one of the other two and therefore it is undoubtedly Truth that it is not the Spirit therefore it must be Water that is used in Baptisme and if so is not his words a manifest Lye when they disown make void and declare as useless that Ordinance of Baptisme nay say themselves here passed