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ID	Title	Author	Corrected Date of Publication (TCP Date of Publication)	STC	Words	Pages
A57277	A brief declaration of the Lords Supper with some other determinations and disputations concerning the same argument by the same author / written by Dr. Nicholas Ridley, Bishop of London during his imprisonment ; to which is annexed an extract of several passages to the same purpose out of a book intituled Diallacticon, written by Dr. John Poynet.	Ridley, Nicholas, 1500?-1555.; Ponet, John, 1516?-1556. Diallacticon viri boni et literati de veritate.	1688 (1688)	Wing R1452; ESTC R29319	67,710	91

except they would say that the verbe Is signifieth is made or is changed into And so then if the same verbe Is be of the same effect in Christs woords spoken upon the cup and rehearsed by Luke and Paule the cup or the wine in the Cup muste bee made or turned into the newe Testamente as was declared before There be some among the Transubstantiatours which walke so wil●lye and so warely between these two aforesaid opinions Gardener a neutrall or lack of both sides allowing them both and bolding plainelye nother of them bothe that me thinks they may be called Neutrals Ambodexters or rather suche as can shift on both sides They play on both partes For with the later they doo allow the doctrine of the last sillable which is that Transubstantiatione is doone by miracle in an instant at the sound of the last syllable um in this sentence Hoc est corpus meum And they doo allowe also Duns his fantasticall imagination of Individium vagum that demonstrateth as he teacheth in Christes woords one thing in substance then being after his minde the substance of the body of Christe A merhailous thinge how one man can agrée with both these two they being so contrary the one to the other For the one saithe the woorde this demonstrateth the substance of bread and the other saith no not so the bread is gone and it demonstrateth a substance whiche is Christes body Gard. to the 4. obiectiou Tushe saith this third man yée vnderstand nothing at all They agree well inough in the chéef poynte whiche is the ground God makers agree against the trueth Note of all that is both doth agrée and beare witnes that there is Transubstantiation They do agrée indéed in that conclusion I graunt But their processe and doctrine therof doo euen aswell agrée togeather as did the false witnes before Annas Caiphas against Christ or the two wicked Iudges against Susanna For againste Christe the false witnesses did agrée no doubt to speak all againste him And the wicked iudges were both agréeed to condemne poore Susanna but in examination of their witnesses they dissented so far that al was found false that they went about both that wherin they agréeed and also those thinges which they brought for their proofes Thus muche haue I spoken in searchinge out a solucione for The consent of the olde authors this principall question which was what is the materiall substance of the holye Sacramente in the Lords supper Now least I should seem to set by mine owne conceite more then is méet or lesse to regard the doctrine of the old ecclestasticall writers then is conuenient for a man of my poore learning and simple wit for to doo And because also I am indéed perswaded that the olde ecclesiastical writers understood the true meaning of Christ in this matter and have both so truly and so plainly set it foorth in certain places of their writinges that no man whiche will vouchsafe to reade them and without preiudice of a corrupt iudgement will indifferently weigh them cons●er their mindes none otherwise then they declare themselves to have mente I am perswaded I say that in reading of them thus no man can be ignorant in this matter but he that wil shut up his own eies and blindféeld himself When I speake of Ecclesiastical writers I mean of such as were before the wicked vsurpation of the see of Rome was growen so unmeasurably great that not only with tirannical power but also with corrupt doctrine it began to subuert Christes gospell and to turne the state that Christe and his Apostles set in the Church vpside down For the causes aforesaide I will rehearse certain of their sayings and yet because I take them but for witnesses and expounders of this doctrine and not as the authors of the same and also for that now I wil not be tedious I will rehearse but fewe that is thrée olde writers of the Gréeke Church and other three of the Latin Church which do seem unto me to be in this matter most plaine The Gréek Authors are Origen Chrisostome and Theodoret. The Latin are Tertulliane S. Augustine and Gelasius I know there call be nothinge spoken so plainly but the crafty wit furnished with eloquence can darken it and weest it quite from the true meaning to a contrary sence And I know also that eloquence craft and finenes of wit hath gone about to bleare mens eies and to stop their eares in the aforenamed writers that men shoulde nother heare nor see what those Authors bothe write and teache so plainely that excepte men shoulde be made both starke blinde and or ase they can not but of necessitie if they will reade and way them indifferently both he are and see what they doo meane when eloquence crafte and finenesse of wit have 〈◊〉 all that they can Now let us he are the olde writers of the Greeke Church Origene which lived about 1250. yéeres agoe a man for the excellency of his learninge so highlye esteemed in Christes Church Origen that he was counted and iudged the singular teacher in his time of Eccle Hist Li. 6. Ca. 3. Christs religion the confounder of heresies the schoolmaister of many godly matters and an opener of highe misteries in scripture He writing upon the iv chapter of Saint Mathewes gospell saieth bus But if any thing enter into the mouth it goeth away in to the belly and is auoided into the draught Yea and that meat whiche is sanctified by the woord of God and praier concerning the matter thereof it goeth away into the belly and is auoided into the draughte But for the praier which is added vnto it for the proportion of the faith it is made profitable makinge the minde able to perceive and see that which is profitable For it is not the immateriall substance of breade but the woord which is spoken vpon it that is profitable to the man that eateth it not vnwoorthely And his I mean of the Typical and Simbolical that is Sacramentall bodye Thus far goe the woords of Origene where it is plaine firste that Origene speaking heer of the sacrament of the Lords supper as the laste woordes doo plainely signifie dooth meane and teache that the material substance therof is receiued digested and auoided as the material substance of other bread and meats is which coulde not be if there were no materiall substance of bread at all as the fantasticall opinion of Transubstantiation dooth put It is a world too see the answere of the Papistes to this place of Origen in the disputations which were in this The Papists obiection against Origene matter in the Parliamente house and in both the vniuersities of Cambridge and Oxforde they that defended Transubstantiation said that this parte of Origen was but set forth of late by Erasmus and therefore is to be suspected But how vaine this their answere is it appeareth plainly For so maye all

significations when as héer what soeuer thou saiest was in the cup nother that nor the cup it self taking euerye woorde in his proper signification was the new testament but in vnderstanding that which was in the cup by the cup that is a figuratiue speache yea and also thou canst not verifie or truly say of that whether thou saiest it was wine or Christs bloud to be the new testament without a figure also Thus in one sentence spoken of Christe in the institution of the Sacrament of his bloud the figure must help vs twise So vntrue it is that some doo write that Christe vseth no figure in the doctrine of faith nor in the institution of his sacraments But some say if we shall thus admit figures in doctrine then shall all the articles of our faith by figures and allegories shortly be transformed and vnlosed I say it is like fault and euen the same to denye the figure where the place so reguirethe to be understanded as bainly to Aug. de doc Christiana li. 3. ca. 16. make it a figuratiue speach which is to be vnderstanded in his proper signification The rules wherby the speech is knowen when it is figuratiue wherby it is none S. Augustine in his booke De doctrina Christiana giueth diuers learned lessons very necessary to be knowen of the students in Gods woorde Of the which oue I wil rehearse which is this If saith he the scripture dooth seeme to commaund a thing which is wicked or vngodly or to forbid a thing that charitie doth require then know saith he that the speach is figuratiue And for example he bringethe the saying of Christe in the vj. chapter of S. Iohn Except ye eate of the fleshe of the sonne of man and drinke his blood Gardiner in his answers to the 161. 226. obiection Note ye can not haue life in you It seemeth to commaund a wicked or anvngodly thing wherfore it is a figuratiue speech commaunding to haue Communion and felowship with Christs passion and deuoutly and holsomly to lay vp in memory that his flesh was crucified and wounded for vs. And héer I can not but maruail at some men surely of much excellent finenesse of wit and of great eloquence that are not ashamed to write and saye that this aforesaide saying of Christe is after S. Augustine a figuratiue speache indéede howbeit not vnto the learned but to the vnlearned Héere let any man that but indifferently vnderstandeth the Latin tongue reade the place in S. Austine and if ye perceiue not cléerly S. Augustins woords and mine to be contrarye let me abide therof the rebuke This lesson of S. Augustine I haue therfore the rather set foorthe because it teacheth vs to vnderstand that place in Iohn figuratiuely Euen so surely the same lesson with the example of S. Augustins expositions therof teacheth vs nor onlye by the same to vnderstand Christes woordes in the Institution of the Sacrament both of his body and of his blood figuratiuely but also the very trewe meaning and vnderstandinge of the same For if to commaunde to eate the fleshe of the sonne of man and to drinke his bloode séemeth to commaund an inconuenience and an vngodlines is euen so indéed if it be vnderstanded as the woords doo stande in their proper signification and therfore must be vnderstanded figuratiuelye and spiritually as S. Augustine dooth godly and learnedly interprete them then surely Christe commaunding in his last Supper to eat his body and drinke his bloode séemed to commaund in sound of woordes as grate and euen the same inconuenience and vngodlynesse as did his woordes in the vj. of S. Iohn and therfore must euen by the same reason be likewise vnderstanded and expounded figuratiuely and spiritually as S. Augustine did the other Wherunto that exposition of S. Augustine may seeme to be the more meete for that Christe in his supper to the commaundement of eating and drinkinge of his body and blood addeth Doe this in remembrance of me Which woords surelye were the keye that opened and reuealed the spirituall and godlye exposition vnto Saint Augustine But I haue taried longer in settinge foorth the forme of The Lords Cup as the Preests say Christes woords vpon the Lordes cup written by Paule and Luke then I did intend to doe And yet in speaking of the forme of Christs woords spoken vpon his cup commeth now to my remembrance the forme of woords vsed in the Latin Masse vpon the Lords cup. Wherof I do not a little meruaile what should be the cause seeing the Latin Masse agréeeth with the Euangelists and Paule in the forme of woords said vpon the bread why in the woordes saide vpon the Lordes cup it differeth from them all yea and addeth to the woordes of Christe spoken vpon the cup these woords Misterium fidei that is the misterie of faithe whiche are not red to be attributed vnto the Sacrament of Christes blood nother in the Euangelists nor in Paule nor so far as I know in any other place of holye Scripture yea and if it may haue some good expositione yet why it should not be as wel added vnto the woordes of Christ vpon his Bread as vpon his Cup surelye I doo not sée the misterie And because I sée in the vse of the Latin Masse the Sacramente of the blood abused when it is denyed vnto the laye people cleane contrarye vnto Gods moste certain woorde for why I doo beséech thée should the Sacrament of Christs blood he denied vnto the lay Christian more then to the Preeste Did not Christe shed his blood aswel for the lay godlye man as for the godlye Preeste If thou wilt saye yes that he did so But the Sacrament of the blood is not to be receiued without the offeringe vp and sacrificinge therof vnto God the Father bothe for the quicke and for the dead and no man may make oblation of Christs blood vnto God but a Preest and therfore the Preest alone and that but in his Masse only may receiue the Sacrament of the blood And call you this Maisters Mysterium fidei Alas alas I feare me this is before God Misterium iniquitatis the misterye of iniquitie such as S. Paule speaketh of in his Epistle to the Thessalonians The Lord be mercifull vnto vs and 2 Thes 2. Praier Psal 67. blesse vs lighten his countenance vpon vs and be mercifull vnto vs. That we may know thy waye vpon earthe and amonge all people thy saluation This kinde of oblation standeth vpon Transubstantiation his The Masse sacrifice iniurious to Christs passion 〈◊〉 germaine and they doo grow both vpon one ground The Lord weede it out of his Vin●arde shortlye if it be his blessed wil and pleasure that bitter root To speake of this oblatione howe muche is it iniurious vnto Christes passion How it can not but with highe blasphemy and hainous arrogancy and intollerable pride be claimed of any man other then of Christe himselfe how muche and

of the deuine nature and yet neuerthelesse the substance or nature of the bread and wine dooth not departe nor goe away Note these woords I beséeche you and consider whether any thing can be more plainely spoken then these woordes be against the errour of Transubstantiatione which is the ground and bitter root wherupon springe all the horrible errours before rehearsed Wherfore seing that the falshood dooth appeare so manifestlye and by so many waies so plainly so cléerly and so fullye that no man needeth to be deceiued but he that will not sée or will not vnderstande let vs al that doo loue the trueth embrace it and forsake the falshood For he that loueth the trueth is of God and the lack of the loue therof is the cause why God suffereth men to fall into errours and to perish therin yea and as S. Paule saieth why he sendeth vnto them illusions that they beleue lyes vnto their own condemnation because saithe he they loued not the trueth This trueth no doubte is Gods woord For Christe him self saith vnto his father Thy woord is trueth The loue and Ioh. 17. light wherof almighty God our heauenly father giue vs and lighten it in our harts by his holy spirit through Iesus Christe out Lorde Amen Vincit Veritas Mr. FOX 2 d Volume of Acts and Monuments Edit London 1684. Lib. 9. pag. 106. The Disputation held at Cambridge before the Kings Commissioners June 20. 1549. wherein Bishop Ridley moderated GLin Well yet once again to you thus The very true Body P. 106. of Christ is to be honoured but the same very true Body is in the Sacrament Ergo the Body of Christ in the Sacrament is to be honoured Rochest Wellbeloved Friends and Brethren in our Saviour Christ you must understand that this Disputation with other that shall be after this are appointed to search for the plain truth of the Holy Scriptures in these matters of Religion which of a long Season have been hidden from us by the false Glosses of the Church of Rome and now in our days must be revealed to us Englishmen through the great Mercy of God principally and secondarily through the most gentle Clemency of our natural Sovereign Lord the Kings Majesty whom the living Lord long preserve to reign over us in Health Wealth and Godliness to the maintenance of Gods holy Word and to the extirpation of all blind Glosses of Men that go about to subvert the Truth Because therefore that I am one that doth love the Truth and have professed the same amongst you therefore I say because of conferring my mind with yours I will here gladly declare what I think in this point now in Controversy Not because this worshipful Doctor hath any need of my help in dissolving of Arguments proposed against him for as me seemeth he hath answered hitherto very well and Clerkly according to the Truth of Gods Word But now to the purpose I do grant unto you Mr. Opponent that the old Ancient Fathers do record and witness a certain Honour and Adoration to be due unto Christs Body but they speak not of it in the Sacrament but of it in Heaven at the right hand of the Father as holy Chrysostome saith Honour thou it and then eat it but that Honour may not be given to the outward sign but to the Body of Christ it self in Heaven For that Body is there only in a sign virtually by Grace in the exhibition of it in Spirit Effect and Faith to the worthy receiver of it For we receive virtually only Christs Body in the Sacrament Glin. How then if it please your good Lordship doth Baptism differ from this Sacrament For in that we receive Christ also by Grace and virtually Rochest Christ is present after another sort in Baptism than in this Sacrament for in that he purgeth and washeth the Infant from all kind of Sin but here he doth feed spiritually the receiver in Faith with all the merits of his blessed Death and Passion and yet he is in Heaven still really and substantially As for Example The Kings Majesty our Lord and Master is but in one place wheresoever that this Royal Person is abiding for the time and yet his mighty Power and Authority is every where in his Realms and Dominions So Christs real Person is only in Heaven substantially placed but his might is in all things created effectually For Christs Flesh may be understood for the Power or inward Might of his Flesh Glin. If it please your Fatherhood St. Ambrose and St. Augustine do say That before the Consecration it is but very Bread and after the Consecration it is called the very Body of Christ Madew Indeed it is the very Body of Christ Sacramentally after the Consecration whereas before it is nothing but common Bread and yet after that it is the Lords Bread and thus must St. Ambrose and St. Augustine be understood Glin. The Bread after Consecration doth feed the Soul Ergo The substance of common Bread doth not remain The Argument is good for St. Ambrose De Sacramentis saith thus After the Consecration there is not the thing that Nature did form but that which the blessing doth consecrate And if the Benediction of the Prophet Elias did turn the nature of Water how much more then doth the Benediction of Christ here both God and Man Madew That Book of St. Ambrose is suspected to be none of his Works Rochest So all the Fathers say Glin. I do marvel at that for St. Augustin in his Book of Retractations maketh plain that that was his own very Work. Rochest He speaketh indeed of such a Book so intituled to St. Ambrose but yet we do lack the same Book indeed Glin. Well let it then pass to other mens Judgments What then say you to holy St. Cyprian 1200 years past Who saith That the Bread which our Lord gave to his Disciples was not changed in form or quality but in very nature and by the Almighty word was made Flesh Madew I do answer thus That this word Flesh may be taken two ways either for the substance it self or else for a natural property of a fleshly thing So that Cyprian there did mean of a natural Property and not of fleshly Substance And contrariwise in the Rod of Aaron where both the Substance and also the Property was changed Glin. Holy St. Ambrose saith The Body there made by the mighty Power of Gods word is the Body of the Virgin Mary Rochest That is to say That by the Word of God the thing hath a Being that it had not before and we do consecrate the Body that we may receive the Grace and Power of the Body of Christ in Heaven by this Sacramental Body Glin. By your Patience my Lord if it be a Body of the Virgin as St. Ambrose saith which we do consecrate as Ministers by Gods holy Word then must it needs be more than a Sacramental or Spiritual Body yea a very Body of