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ID	Title	Author	Corrected Date of Publication (TCP Date of Publication)	STC	Words	Pages
A25216	A reply to the Reverend Dean of St. Pauls's reflections on the Rector of Sutton, &c. wherein the principles and practices of the non-conformists are not only vindicated by Scripture, but by Dr. Stillingsfleet's Rational account, as well as his Irenicum : as also by the writings of the Lord Faulkland, Mr. Hales, Mr. Chillingworth, &c. / by the same hand ; to which is added, St. Paul's work promoted, or, Proper materials drawn from The true and only way of concord, and, Pleas for peace and other late writings of Mr. Richard Baxter ...	Alsop, Vincent, 1629 or 30-1703.; Barret, John, 1631-1713.	1681 (1681)	Wing A2919; ESTC R6809	123,967	128

Church wherein they were baptized Or would you have such Re-baptized Or can you prove that unless Men renounce their Baptism they must needs own Diocesan Churches and the Parish-Minister howsoever unqualified whom the Bishop sets over them You that could find out a Mean betwixt Tyranny over Mens Consciences and endless Separation to wit a prudent and due Submission in lawful things as pag. 208. me-thinks it is a little strange you could think of no Mean betwixt tying People to their Parish Minister though notoriously unfit for the Ministry and suffering them to run after Quakers or Papists p. 330. I suppose you approve of that Saying of the Bishops you cite pag. 320. If he that was chosen were worthy they would consecrate him but not otherwise So you would not have Bishops obliged or forced to consecrate the unworthy neither surely should they ordain such or grant Institution and Induction to such Yet I see not but you would have People obliged to accept of them if instituted and inducted though it be never so apparent and easie to prove they are unworthy It would seem it is enough with you that we have the same Religion publickly professed pag. 308. Though some in place are never so great a scandal to Religion great Enemies to it whose Ministry tends to do more harm than good p. 123. 11. Are you Impartial or rather are you not uncharitable in your Censure of all those whom you condemn as Separatists and guilty of Schism As you say to the Romanist Rational Account pag. 613. ● 3. You expresly grant a possibility of Salvation in case of invincible Ignorance and dare you deny it where there is a preparation of Mind to find out and embrace the most certain way to Heaven where all Endeavours are used to that end and where there is a consciencious Obedience to the Will of God so far as it is discovered So say I to you But here do not in Effect charge them with not using the best means for a right Information otherwise you say their Non-communion in the Particulars scrupled may be excused p. 73. f. Therefore say I their Non-communion with you who yet acknowledg you to be true Churches cannot be the most inexcusable unless you suppose them to be the most deficient in using the means for right Information Do you not charge them with wilful Error or Mistake p. 373. There must be wilfulness in the Error or Mistake which doth not excuse For I say expresly if the Error be wholly involuntary it does excuse So you suppose pag. 140. That the terms of Communion are only fancied to be sinful through prejudice or wilful Ignorance or Error of Conscience Where we must understand you would have wilful joyned to each of these otherwise it would excuse And you add pag. 141. It is to be supposed that where there is no plain Prohibition Men may with ordinary Care and Judgment satisfy themselves of the Lawfulness of things required Therefore you suppose that all who are not so satisfied 〈◊〉 Men that want both ordinary Care and Judgment who suffer themselves to be so easily deluded p. 142. f. Here I meet with a Letter of some old suffering Non-conformists being an Answer tò what a Reverend Conformable Divine had written to them Some Passages therein I shall transcribe supposing it was never printed that they may be new to you though written many Years since The second Course you direct us to of seeking Information but with all Humility and Prayer in the use of means but with all Indifferency lest halting with God as Balaam did we find his success we readily accept it according to the measure of the Truth and Integrity of our Hearts only we have cause to be humbled and fear our own Hearts for we speak of our selves we judge not others lest any of us yield without such serious search after the Truth as you advise and that for fear of losing what Balaam gained For ought we see there is small hopes of gaining Balaam 's ways by standing for the Purity of Gods Ordinances and therefore less Fear of halting as Balaam did in seeking and following after that way which exposeth us to the loss of all the chiefest Comforts of this Life and which if it be not the way of Truth we are of all true-hearted English-men the most miserable And further on they say Or suppose which God forbid that we were so void of Christianity and Humanity together as to undo our selves inward and outward Man without all Reason or Conscience yet will you pass the same Iudgment upon all those three hundred Ministers which in our memories have been deprived for that very Cause for which we suffer Were not some of them such as the Christian World never yielded more eminent Lights of Sincerity and true Holiness since the Apostles times And did Misprision or long Vse make such a fell adoe in their Hearts also as to blind their Consciences in this Cause Was all their Patience in this Cause for Conscience sake not a Fruit of God's Spirit in them but a Bastard of their own Spirit And Sir you may be informed how some of them suffered for Preaching and keeping Conventicles as they were called as well as for In-conformity Afterwards towards the Conclusion they have these words Consider whether you rightly take such things for indifferent when they do not suffer you to carry an indifferent Mind towards you poor Brethren which in them only and in no weightier Matters do differ from you And let me beg of you to consider it and once more to consider your own words Rational Account p. 614. But we have not so learned Christ we dare not deal so inhumanly with them in this World much less judg so uncharitable as to another of those who profess to fear God and work Righteousness though they be not of the same Opinion or Communion with us Remember this unless you will retract it The last point of Partiality I shall take notice of toucheth me in particular Preface p. 61 62. You say of that worthy Person whosoever he was who wrote the Letter out of the Country He seems to write like a well-disposed Gentleman He discourses gravely and piously without Bitterness and Rancor or any sharper Reflections c. Though he also reflects on your Irenicum yet there is no harm done You have the same from him as it were by whole-sale almost two Pages together Letter p. 15 16. which I return in small Parcels yet do you not pay Him off with such sharp Inve●ives as I have from you Preface p. 72. So now I come to consider what you say to me Preface p. 71. The whole Design of that Book doth not seem very agreeable to the Christian-temper which the Author pretends to Whether is it your meaning that it is not wholly agreeable or not at all agreeable Whether not agreeable in all things or agreeable in nothing But is it not for Moderation in such

or lay the Sin at their Door But I observe you would have Care taken Preface p. 86. that there be No Pretence left for idle loose and profane Persons never going to any Church at all whence I conclude that you cannot but allow it that such as are not satisfied to joyn with you yet ought to joyn in God's Worship elsewhere and that in your serious Thoughts you judg it better for Persons to joyn with Congregations that hold Communion in your way of Worship unlawful for of such you are speaking in that place than to be of no Christian Society than not to attend at all on God's Worship Here if you would not be offended I shall tell you what a plain Christian a Neighbour of mine said of you I can remember I have seen him at the Sacrament with some of you abov● 20 Years ago and would he now have poor hungry Souls deprived of such Ordinancees and Means of Grace that cannot be satisfied to partake of them in his Way If any were a Cause of depriving so many thousands of their bodily Food as he would have deprived of Food for their Souls what would the World say of such Whereby he seemed to think your Sin as great as Murder and in some respects aggravated beyond it As he may likewise think the Sin of those that care not unnecessarily to offend others or would cause them to offend to be a kind of Murder in the Apostles Account Rom. 14. 15. Now walkest thou not charitably Destroy not him with thy meat for whom Christ died Such was the honest Man's Zeal he would have written to you to put it to your Conscience as he said but I thought this Intimation from him sufficient 3. I find you so kind or just you help such to Ministers those that cannot conform Irenic p. 42 you say It belongs to the Magistrate To see that Ministers preach the true Doctrine though he cannot lawfully forbid the true Doctrine to be taught and that they duly administer the Sacraments though he cannot command them to administer them otherwise than Christ hath delivered them down to us And that Christ did not deliver the Sign of the Cross down to us with Baptism I suppose the highest Conformists will grant This gives some Hopes such may lawfully preach still whom others cannot lawfully forbid Preaching And you tell us from another Vnreasonableness of Separation pag. 7. that Cranmer held himself for a Arch-Bishop still and was by Q. Marry forcibly restrained from it Latimer though he renounced his Bishoprick yet he kept his Ministry and never repented him of it And Ibid. p. 132. you say The Question is not whether all publick Worship be sinful when forbidden which you never said or thought as you tell us in the same Page I abhor and detest such Principles as to set up Man's Laws above God's This is good And you seem to allow that such publick Worship as hath no Evil in it antecedent to the Prohibition may not be forbidden Very good still All the Question here is Whether there be not Schism in it For I hope you shall never find Idolatry or Sedition in that Worship I would plead for Now as for the Charge of Schism do but allow Ministers equal Favour with others and you have said enough to clear them Iren. p. 113 116 119 120. Charge not them with Schism upon account of their distinct Meetings who are driven into them by your over-rigorours Impositions You know well how great a matter this imposing unlawful Conditions is with Chillingworth to warrant Separation How oft he is upon it in Chap. 5. where p. 267. ● 40. he hath the confidence to tell his Adversary You mistake in thinking that Protestants hold themseves obliged not to communicate with you only or principally by reason of your Errors and Corruptions For the true Reason according to my third Observation is not so much because you maintain Errors and Corruptions as because you impose them c. like your pleading for Non-conformists Irenic p. 118. So Ball of Separation pag. 159. The Lord needeth not Mans lie neither doth he allow us to do Evil that Good may come thereof And therefore I must not subscribe to an Error against Conscience though never so innocent nor profess Approbation of that which in Conscience I cannot allow though never so small c. But thus are many Ministers driven from you who neither dare lay down their Ministry nor take the charge of Parochial Congregations on them upon such hard that is sinful Terms For to borrow an Expression of Dr. Potter's Though in the issue the Errors be not damnable to them which believe as they profess yet for us to profess c. what we believe not were without question damnable Now may I come in with my Conclusion It is this Conclusion 1. It becomes unavoidable necessary for such Ministers and Christians as cannot in Conscience submit to your Terms and conform to your way of Worship neither may lawfully lay aside their Ministry nor live without God's Worship and Ordinances to be for other Assemblies than yours where the one may exercise their Ministry and the other with such Ministers may partake of God's Ordinances and joyn in his Worship which you call setting up of new Churches After the drawing up of this looking into Corbet of Church-Unity and Schism I find something to this purpose pag. 31 32. Though indeed I took my Hints from you here Now because I would not leave this Proposition so naked as yours stands I shall here offer something 1. On the behalf of Ministers 2. On the behalf of private Christians 1. On the behalf of such Ministers 1. You cannot deny but the Ministers who are forced to stand off from you were at least very many of them duly qualified for and had a sufficient valid call to the Office of the Ministry that they were God's Ministers Christ's Ministers before their Ejection You cannot deny but the mediate Call is from God and Christ even as well as the immediate Call was Those two Texts Act. 20. 28. 1 Cor. 12. 28. to name no more fully prove it 2. Though it is not questioned by us but the Clergy is under the Iurisdiction of the Prince Ministers as well as others under the Civil Magistrate and that they may where there is just Cause by him be deprived of their publick Liberty and may be imprisoned banished put to death yet without just Cause as Male-administration or matter of Scandal rendring them unfit to use your own Words no Power on Earth whether Civil or Ecclesiastical may turn those out of the Ministry whom God hath called to it Rulers Bishops may neither put in nor put out of this Office as they list Men may neither admit into nor put from the Ministry meerly at their their own Pleasure but only according to Christ's Will and Appointment For his Officers and Servants they are And Christ hath by his Apostles whose Authority

one is bound to submit to the Determination of such what ever his private Judgment be 1. As to things in the Iudgment of the Primitive and Reformed Churches left undetermin'd by the Law of God 2. And in matters of meer Order and Decency 3. And wholly as to the Form of Government This I think you cannot deny to be the true Analysis of your third Conclusion How pertinent this your Resolution is to the case of Dissenters and how material to give them Satisfaction will appear by examining the several Parts But first it is worth nothing that you speak only of the Determination of the lawful Governours of the Church Implying that Men are not bound to submit to the Determination of such as may be proved Vsurpers such as are not lawful Governours of the Church Then so far you and they may be agreed that if the Pope should set up a Patriarch c. in England Men were not bound to submit to their Determination till such could be proved lawful Governours of the Church And then whether you have fully answered your Gentleman p. 305. and others and proved that Christ hath invested with Power to make such Decrees and Determinations as lawful Governours of the Church those who neverwere chosen or approved by the People is another Question But then where lawful Governours of the Church determine you tell us 1. Every one is bound to submit to their Determination As to things in the Iudgment of the Primitive and Reformed Churches left undetermin'd by the Law of God Here 1. You should have told us whether by the Primitive Churches you meant the primo-primitive Churches or only such Ancient Churches as those of the fourth or fifth Age. One would guess that these latter are your Primitive Churches Now in my Thoughts King Iames was quite beyond the Cardinal and got the upper Ground In Defence of the Right of Kings p. 398. where the Cardinal arguing that a Doctrine believed and practised in the Church in the continual Current of the last Eleven Hundred Years was not to be condemned His Majesty replied In these VVords he maketh a secret Confession that in the first five hundred Years the same Doctrine was neither apprehended by Faith nor approved by Practice VVherein to my understanding the Lord Cardinal voluntarily giveth over the Suit for the Church in the time of the Apostles their Disciples was no more ignorant what Authority the Church is to challenge than at any time since in any succeeding Age in which as Pride hath still flowed to the heighth of a full Sea so Purity of Religion and Manners hath kept for the most part at a low Water-mark You should have told us also what Reformed Churches you meant whether all or only some of them And if but some whether those that only took the Scripture as their Rule in reforming or those that took in the Example and Practice of some of those Ancient Churches together with it 2. What are those things that in the Iudgment of the Primitive and Reformed Churches are left undetermin'd by the Law of God besides matters of meer Order and Decency and what relates to Form of Government 3. Can this be a safe and sure Rule When you grant the Church may err and general Councils may err may they not then judg some things left undetermin'd by the Word that are not s● left Chillingworth grants there may be just and nec●ssary Cause to depart from some Opinions and Practices of the Cath●lick Church p. 298. And you say partly the same in your Rational Account pag. 331 332. Those Errors in practice in the Judgment of the Church may be such things as are left undetermined by the Word when yet others are not bound to submit to them You tell us Rational Account p. 627. The matter to be enquired here is what Liberty of Prescription is allowed by vertue of the Law of Christ for since he hath made Laws to govern his Church by it is most sensl●ss pleading Prescription till you have particularly examined how far such Prescription is allowed by him So then it is not enough to say in the Judgment of the Primitive and Reformed Churches such things are left undetermined by God's Law and the Church hath Power to determine them But Men are to examine whether such Liberty be allowed by Christ. And as you go on p. 628. It may be you will tell me that in this Case Prescription interprets Law and that the Churches Possession argues it was the Will of Christ. But still the Proof lies upon your side since you run your self into new Briars for you must prove that there is no way to interpret this Law but by the Practice here I must say by the Iudgment of the Church and which is the 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 of all that the Church cannot come into the Possession of any thing but what was originally given her by the Legislator He that undertakes to prove it impossible that the Church should claim by an undue Title must prove it impossible that the Church should ever be deceived 4. Is this a plain or rather is it not an Impossible Rule If every one be bound to submit to the Determination of those things that in the Iudgment of the Primitive and Reformed Churches are left undetermined by the Word then every one should be bound to know the Judgment of the Primitive and Reformed Churches as to those things We should think it well if Men would be perswaded to search the Scriptures and to submit to what God hath revealed and made known there to be their Duty but according to what you have here laid down this should not be sufficient but every one is also bound to search the Monuments of Antiquity to turn over the Antient Fathers and Councils and so likewise to get a View of the whole Body of latter Confessions that may inform him of the Judgment of the Primitive and Reformed Churches And is not this to bind heavy Burthens upon Men's Shoulders and to make more Sins than are found to be so in God's Law Or will you say that Men are bound to an Implicite Faith here that what you assert to have been the Judgment of the Primitive and Reformed Churches they must believe without more adoe Or if you will not say they are bound to such an Implicite Faith in your Word will you allow them to suspend the Act of Submission to the Determination of Church-Governours till such time as they can be satisfied that such Determination is agreeable to the Iudgment of the Primitive and Reformed Churches Will you give them time till they can find Re-ordination in the like Case reading of Apocrypha in the room of God's Word c. to have been approved and practised in the Primitive and Reformed Churches 5. Is this a golden rather is it not a leaden Rule May it not be turned contrary ways Was the Primitive Church for kneeling in the Act of receiving Were

made parts of Divine Worship you will excuse those that cannot submit to them unl●ss they could be proved of Divine Institution If they are things not 〈◊〉 by the Word according to what you have p. 116. they should not be 〈◊〉 they are not bound to use them No Church-Governours upon Faith hav● su●h a Power to bind men to things not 〈◊〉 by the Word If their 〈◊〉 enjoin what Christ's Laws forbid as the making of any n●w part of Worship they are ipso facto null and void King Iam●s 〈…〉 Right of Kings p. 428. It is moreover granted If a King s●all command any thing dir●ctly contrary to God's Word and tending to the 〈◊〉 of the Church that Cleries in this Case ought not only to dispence with Subjects for th●ir Obedience but also expresly to forbid their Obedience For it is alwayes better to obey God than Man And I hope you would not set up the Power of any Church-Governour above the King 's here and ab●ve Christ●● And what Episcopius saith in defence of Severed Meetings sometimes against the will of the Magistrate Vol. 1. Par. 2. p. 56. col 2. may be appli●d h●re to Non-submission in such case as is spoken of to the Determination of Church-Governous Deirectatio autem illa Obedien●iae 〈◊〉 est in Obedientia nedum resi●tentia sed tantum Supremi Iuris 〈◊〉 qu●d Magistratus sibi 〈◊〉 adrogat out userpat debita Recognitio It should not be called Non-submission to our Governours but rather a due Recogni●●●on of the Soveraign Right and Authority of our highest Lord. For haste I have here thrown things on heaps A few words now to the third part of your last Conclusion 3. You say Wholly as to the Form of Government every one is bound to submit to such Determination Here I offer to your Consideration what follows 1. Whether they that could submit to Episcopacy as to their Practice that is live peaceably under it and obey Governours in Licitis Honestis so far as God's Law allows should be urged further to submit their Iudgment to the Divine or Apostolical Right of Episcopacy when determined by Governours whatever their private Iudgment may be Could Bishop Cranmer have declared his Assent to such Determination whose Judgment was That the Bishops and Priests were not two things but both one Office in the beginning of Christ's Religion as you cite his MS. Irenic p. 392. could such a Man as Dr. Holland and I need not tell you what he was who called Dr Laud a Schismatick for asserting the Divine Right of Episcopacy saying It was to make a Division betwixt the English and other Reformed Churches Or could Lud. Capellus have submitted to such Determination That it is evident to every one diligently reading holy Scripture c. who in effect says the contrary Thes. Salmur p. 8. § 33. Neque verò praescripto ullo divino desinitum esse putamus c. And if the like was determined of Arch-Bishops as of Bishops I am in some doubt from what I meet with in your Rational Account whether you could submit to such Determination For there pag. 298. You speak of it as a known and received Truth in the Ancient Church That the Catholick Church was a Whole consisting of Homogeneal Parts without any such Subordination or Dependance Here I would be satisfied how you would expound Homogeneal Parts and so you seem to expound them p. 300. Since the Care and Government of the Church by these Words of Cyprian Episcopatus unus appears to be equally committed to all the Bishops of the Catholick Church But then should not all that have the Care and Government of the Church committed to them be supposed to be Bishops and no one Bishop above another otherwise how is the Care and Government of the Church equally committed to them how is there Episcopatus unus And how doth the Church consist of Homogeneal Parts And thus will it not follow that no Constitution higher than that of such Bishops as have the Care and Government of the Church committed to them which you here suppose to be with a Parity should be made the Center of Ecelesiastical Communion And yet more fully p. 302. When S. Cyprian saith Episcopatus unus est cujus à singulis in solidum Pars tenetur de Vnit. Eccles. p. 208. That every Part belonging to each Bishop was held in solidum he therein imports that full Right and Power which every Bishop hath over his Charge and in this Speech he compares the Government of the Church to an Estate held by several Free-holders in which every one hath a full Right to that Share which belongs to him Whereas according to your Principles the Government of the Church is like a Man●or or Lordship in which the several Inhabitants hold at the best but by Copy from the Lord. Now it would be considered whether in these Words you have not given Metropolitan Churches a shake if not Diocesan Churches too 2. Whether you could submit and declare your Assent if lawfull Governours should determine that Bishops were no Superiour Order of Divine or Apostolical Institution and should require your Assent Would you then disown and discard such whom you here maintain to be the Apostles Successours For what you say Vnreasonableness of Separation Preface p. 89. we may not think you would ever be afraid or ashamed to own them For there you tell us The Friends of the Church of England will not be either afraid or ashamed to own her Cause They must not think that we will give up the Cause of the Church for it that is for Union or the Churches Peace so as to condemn its Constitution c. Then you cannot say that wholly as to the Form of Government every one is bound for the Churches Peace to submit to the Determination of Governours whatever his private Judgment be Here I have put a Case wherein you could not submit 3. What if the whole Work of Government belonging to the Pastor's Office was quite taken out of their hand that they were made meer Curats of the Bishop and such Copy-holders as must hold nothing but at the Will of their Lord Would you have them bound to acquiesce in the publick Decision without doing any thing towards a Reformation Should they betrary the Churches Interest for the Churches Peace May they not endeavour any Alteration not so much as by complaining to Governours of such Exorbitances of Power and by humble Petition for Redress 4. Is every one bound to submit wholly as to the Form of Government to Governours Determination Then what if our Civil Governours and the Ecclesiastical should differ in their Iudgments and Determinations I make no question but you have one time or other met with that of Sir Francis Knolles to my Lord Treasurer Sir William Cecil Moreover whereas your Lordship said unto me that the Bishops have forsaken their claim of Superiority over their Inferiour Brethren lately to be by God's

Ordinance and that now they do only claim Superiority from her Majesties Supream Government If this be true then it is requisite and necessary that my Lord of Canterbury do recant and retract his Saying in his Book of the great Volumn against Cartwright where he saith in plain Words by the Name of Dr. Whitgift that the Superiority of Bishops is of God's own Institution which Saying doth impugn her Majesties Supream Government directly and therefore it is to be retracted plainly and truly And I find something like this in that small Tract called English Puritanism c. 6. § 6. They ●old that all Arch-Bishops Bish●ps Deans Officials c. have their Offices and Functions only by Will and Pleasure of the King and Civil States of this Realm and they hold that whosoever holdeth that the King may not without Sin remove these Offices out of the Church or 〈◊〉 these Offices are Jure divino and not only or meerly Jure humano That all such deny a principal Part of the King's Supremacy which indeed you must hold as to Bishops if you can prove them an Apostolical Institution Though I know the time when you was of another mind Rector of Sutton p. 41. Will not all these things make it seem very improbable that it should be an Apostolical Institution And pag. 40. you believed that upon the strictest Enquiry it would be ●ound true that Ierome Austin Ambrose Sedulius Primasius Theodoret Theophylact were all for the Identity of both Name and Order of Bishops and ●re●byters in the Primitive Church Now suppose the Civil Governours should determine the Government by Bishops as superiour to the rest of the Clergy to be only jure humano that they had Power to alter if they pleased and should require Assent to this their Determination and the Ecclesiasticks on the other hand should be of your mind resolving not to give up the Cause of the Church or disown its Constitution and should determine it to be Iure Divino vel Apostolico and to be owned of Men as such In such a Case whether must the former for the Churches Peace think themselves bound to submit to the Determinations of the latter Or to which of their Determinations must others submit For none but such as the Vicar of Bray could submit to both Thus I have gone over your three Conclusions which you seem to make great account of What great Service they are like to do you let the Impartial Reader judg Instead of my third Conclusion I would offer to Consideration Chap. 26 of Corbet's Kingdom of God among Men. of Submission to Things imposed by lawful Authority p. 171 c. Particularly pag. 173. Though the Ruler be Iudg of what Rules he is to prescribe yet the Conscience of every Subject is to judg with a Iudgment of Discretion whether those Rules be agreeable to the Word of God or not and so whether his Conformity thereto be lawful or unlawful Otherwise he must act upon blind Obedience c. with what follows in that Page And pag. 174. It is much easier for Rulers to relax the strictness of many Injunctions about matters of supposed Convenience than for Subjects to be inlarged from the strictness of their Iudgment And blessed are they that consider Conscience and load it not with needless Burdens but seek to relieve it in its Distresses You go on with me Preface p. 74 But he urges another Passage in the same Place viz. That if others cast them wholly out of Communion their Separation is necessary That is no more than hath been always said by our Divines in respect to the Church of Rome But will not this equally hold against our Church if it excommunicates those who cannot conform Now may not it be said here as Rational Account p. 336. beginning They did not voluntarily forsake the Communion of your Church and therefore are no Schismaticks but your Carriage and Practices were 〈…〉 them to joyn together in a distinct Communion from you And may not your own Words ibid. p. 356 be returned Scil. That by your own Confession the present Division and Separation lies at your door if it be not made evident that there were most just and sufficient Reasons for your casting them out of your Communion And supposing any Church though pretending to be never so Catholick doth restrain her Communion within such narrow and unjust Bounds that she declares such excommunicate who do not approve all such Errors in Doctrine and Corruptions in practice which the Communion of such a Church may be liable to the cause of that Division which follows falls upon that Church which exacts those Conditions c. Here it is to be noted that your own Words Irenic p. 123 124. objected against you Rector of Sutton pag. 30. are as follow This Scil. entring into a distinct Society for Worship I do not assert to be therefore lawful because some things are required which Men's Consciences are unsatisfied in unless others proceed to eject and cast them wholly out of Communion on that account in which Case their Separation is necessary Whence I inferred that if Ministers be wrongfully ejected and wholly cast out of their publick Ministry for such things as their Consciences are not satisfied in for not conforming in unlawful or suspected Practices it becomes necessary for them to have distinct Assemblies in this case at least if there be need of their Ministry Yet I cannot find that you have one word in Answer to this That one would think either you knew not well what to say to the Case of the ejected Non-conformists or that they were so very despicable in your Eye you thought them not worth taking notice of at all Now to your Answers 1. Our church doth not cast any wholly out of Communion for meer Scrupulous Non-conformity in some particular Rites Yet whatever you say here I doubt a Man though he hath his Child lawfully baptized is not secured from the Sentence of Excommunication if he bring it not to the Church to be crossed And though a Man would joyn in the Communion yet if he be not satisfied to receive the Sacrament kneeling by the Rules of the Church he is to be debarred from the Sacrament and then liable to Excommunication for not receiving And being once excommunicated I would know what parts of publick Worship the Church allows him to communicate in Thus there seems to be little more than a Colour and Pretence in this first Answer if the Rules of the Church be followed But you further say Preface p. 74 75. 2. The Case is vastly different as to the necessity of our Separation upon being wholly cast out of Communion by the Church of Rome and the necessity of others separating from us supposing a general Excommunication ipso facto against those who publickly defame the Orders of the Church In the Church of Rome we are cast out with an Anathema Now 1. If there be a necessity of our Separation

I cannot see what can hinder a mutual good Agreement Pag. 410. And seeing the good of the ●tare and Church depends absolutely upon the Union of the People in the Point of Religion one cannot there press an universal Union too much But it ought to be procured by good means An Vnion in Religion may be without Vniformity in Ceremonies You will not own it that you place Religion in these that they are any parts of Religion But the pressing of such unnecessary doubtful things upon Men about which many are and ever will be dissatisfied seems no good nor probable means to procure an Vniversal Vnion That Prudence and Charity which this Professor afterwards commends as necessary in this Work would in my simple Judgment direct to other Means and Methods Notes upon the Second Letter from Monsieur de L' Angle ADD P. 420. I have not met with such Writings said to be lately published to make Men believe that Communion with the Church of England is unlawful and that the Ministers cannot permit it to private Persons without sinning Or if I have seen any such they are quite out of my Mind As to the former of these do but allow them to distinguish as you do in your Rational Account and they will say They have communion with the Church of England so far as it is a Church and very many of them have ordinary Communion in the self-same Worship so far as it is God's Worship And what is redundant it is not necessary that they should have Communion in It is one thing to say Communion with the Church of England is simply unlawful unlawful in it self and so unto all Men and another to say that Communion in the Liturgies or Ceremonies is unlawful to them who cannot yet be satisfied that they are lawful But we are further supposed to believe that Communion with the Church of England is intolerable in what follows that the Ministers cannot permit it to private Persons without sinning Here let every one so far as they are called to it speak for themselves For my part I have never made it any of my Work God and Men are Witnesses to warn others to take heed how they had Communion with the Church of England I have never told any living Soul that I should sin if I did not forbid their joyning with Parochial Congregations Rather it should be my Prayer I am sure it is my Hearts desire that sober Conformists and Non-conformists might once come to joyn each with other notwithstanding their lesser Differences But it seems it is not permitted to you to have Communion with such at Dr. O. and Mr. B. tho you may have Communion with others from whom you differ in greater Matters both as to your Judgments and Practices too while they do but conform then is there not some strange secret Virtue or Inchantment in this Chain of Conformity It can congregate the heterogeneous while it separates those who are more homogeneous But that this is not the Doctrine of the Non-conformists that they cannot permit private Persons to have Communion with you without sinning I am very apt to conclude because M. Le Moyne went to several of their private Assemblies while he was at London and could never hear any such thing from any of them Otherwise sure he that could remember the citing of Pliny and Vitruvius a hundred times in one Sermon and tell us of it five years after tho I doubt his being so ●●sy in casting up such Accounts might be the cause he wa● not at all edified by the Sermon would not have failed to take notice of such a thing as that being more pertinent and material And for the same Reason with others I cannot believe what follows h●●e p. 423. That The Bugb●ar Words of Tyranny Oppression Limbs of Antichrist are continually beaten into the Peoples Ears If so M. Le Moyne had been as likely as any Person to have catched at them and then had we heard of them again But further some of us have the very same to say that this Learned Person says P. 420 421. That In frequenting your Assemblies and preaching too in ●ongregations that are under the Jurisdiction of the Church of England when we could enjoy the Priviledg which indeed ●●th been very rarely we have thus also shewn that we do not believe her 〈◊〉 to be unlawful Add P. 422. Schism is the most formid●ble ●vil tha● can befal the Church and for the avoiding of this 〈◊〉 ●Charity obliges all good Men to bear with then Breth●● 〈…〉 much less ●olerable than those of which the dispute is 〈…〉 the Eyes of those that have the most aversion fro● 〈◊〉 I thought it would appear that these ●minent learned Men did not rightly and fully understand our case So the former speaks as if we did excommunicate the Church of England without Mercy Wh●● alas we are rather under her Excommunication And this learne● Person speaks as if we had not so much Christian Charity as to bear with our Brethren in the use of a few Ceremonies but that is not the thing in Question Many of us at least could and do bear with you● Conformity and joyn with you notwithstanding But will it not follow from his own Words That Christian Charity obliges you to bear with ou● Non-conformity yet you will not bear with us I hope you would be counted good Men. Now he says Christian Charity obliges all good Men to bear with their Prethren in some things much less tolerable than those of which the dis●●●● is The Apostle gives Timothy a very solemn Charge then are not Bishops concerned in it if Timothy was a Bishop 1 Tim. 5. 21. I charge thee before God and the Lord Iesus Christ and the Elect Angels that thou observe these things without preferring one before another doing nothing by Partiality And one of these things he was to observe we find v. 17. Let the Elders that rule well be counted worthy of double Honour especially they who labour in the Word and Doctrine Yet how many that have been ●alled to the work of the Ministry how many of your Brethren that would gladly labour in the work they have been called unto and you have been doing them what dishonour you can loading them with the charge of Schism and unreasonable Separation while you can bear with things much less tolerabl● in others Is this your Christian Charity Or doing nothing by Partiality Are there no Non-conformists that use to hear you when they have Opportunity I am apt to think there are And thus they bear with you as to matters in dispute farther than you are seen to bear with them But this must be noted It is one thing for us to bear with your Conformity and another thing by Word and Deed to declare our approbation of Conformity or to conform meerly because you do so and require us to do so tho we suspect it to be sinful As the Lord Faulkland I

is certainly Superior to that of the greatest Bishops and Councils that ever were described the Office and how Persons are to be qualified for it And when such have been called to the Office while they give no just Cause for Suspension and Degradation Christ looks on them as his Ministers still and accordingly his Will is that Men own them as such And they that despise them may therein ● in a Degree be guilty of despising Christ. Chemnitius Loc. com par 3. p. 136. col 1. speaks fully to the purpose thus As God alone properly claims to himself the Right of Calling even when the Call is mediate so also properly it belongs to God ●o remove one from the Ministry Therefore so long as God suffers in the Ministry his Servant teaching rightly and living blamelesly Ecclesia non habet Potestatem alienum Servum amovendi The Church hath no Power Authority of putting away another's Servant But when be no further edifies either by his Doctrine or Life but destroys the Church then God himself removes him 3. If what you have said formerly remark'd in Rector of Sutton p. 29. hold true and you have not hitherto disproved the same then you must yield the present Non-conformist Ministers have not been suspended and cast out for any just Cause And may I not also add If Clement say true as you cite him here Vnreasonableness of Separation p. 314 315. Those therefore who were appointed by them or other eminent Men the whole Church being therewith wel-pleased discharging their Office with Humility Quietness Readiness and Unblameableness and being Men of a long time of good Report we think such Men cannot justly be cast out of their Office Though in the heat of Disputation your Opinion seems to be changed of Persons as well as Things yet I hope in cool Blood you would not deny but such a Character agrees to many Non-conformists that you should think they cannot justly be cast out of Office And I doubt not but you are well acqainted with that old Canon That no Bishop or Priest should be taken into another's Place if the former were blameless 4. If still they are in Office as Ministers of Christ are they not obliged to serve him in that Office as they have a Call and Opportunity See again Rector of Sutton pag. 29 34 75. They must not neglect the Gift that is in them Sad was the Doom of the vnprofitable Servant that buried his Talent The Teacher must wait on Teaching I suppose all Christ's Ministers are concerned in that solemn Charge 2. Tim. 4. 1 2. And they are to take heed to the Ministry which they have received even though Men forbid them You abhor and detest such Principles as to set Man's Laws above God's Laws And though they be threatned with Persecution for it when they are persecuted in one City they may flee to another Mat. 10. 23. Yet must they not run away from their Work but be carrying that on in other Places where they come according to their Ability and Opportunity Prudence directed them Ioh. 20. 19. to meet privately there at Evening keeping the Door shut for fear of the Jews yet meet they would If Ministers be driven from their former Flocks yet are they Men in Office and preach as such not only as gifted Men in what other place soever God by his Providence calls them to bestow their Pains They are Teachers by Office to more than their proper Charges even to as many as they have a Providential Call hic nunc to preach unto So it appears Men cannot lawfully silence Christ's Ministers without just Cause or if they do that such Decree and Sentence does not oblige Conscience I have it from Mr. B. Church History p. 446 447. The Dominican Inquisitor that reasoned the matter with the Bohemians would have silenced excommunicated Priests bound to cease preaching but had the wit to add if silenced for a reasonable Cause and to confess Sententia injuste lata à suo judice si Errorem inducat vel Peccatum mortale afferet nec timenda est nec tenenda The old Bohemian Reformers held as Ibid. p. 446. Every Priest and Deacon is bound to preach God's Word freely or he sinneth mortally and after Ordination he should not cease no not when excommunicated because he must obey God rather than Man I see in Carranza fol. 437. It was one of the Articles for which the Council of Constance sentenced I. Wickliffe's Bones to be digg'd up and burnt Art 13. They that leave off to preach or hear God's Word for Men's Excommunication are excommunicate And you that have greater store of Authors and choice Books then such as I must ever hope to have the Advantage of● you I say I doubt not have what others add they are excommunicate and in the day of Iudgment shall be judged Traitors to Christ. And these were among the Articles for which I. Husse was condemned Carranza ●ol 440. Art 17 18. A Priest of Christ living according to his Law and having the Knowledg of the Scripture and a working to edify the People ought to preach notwithstanding any pretended Excommunication And every one that comes to the Office of a Pri●st hath a Command to preach and ought to obey that Command notwithstanding Excommunication And these you know were before our oldest Non-conformists 5. But now Sir that I may come home to you If Ministers were bound to cease preaching to lay aside their Ministry when silenced unjustly then at what a miserable Loss might the Church be left And if you could scarce satisfy your selves to see her at such a loss we may very well hope Christ would not have her left at such a Loss His care of his Church no doubt is greater than yours would be Because you seem not to take any notice of what I said Rect. of Sutton p. 28. give me leave here to mind you of it again What a woful Case the Church was in if she might be deprived of all or the greatest and soundest part of her Ministers at Man's pleasure And further pag. 43. I put a Case shewing that if what you would have be admitted it might fare a great deal the worse with the Church under Orthodox Bishops and Governours than if they were grand Hereticks But to come to the Point I aim at You know when almost two thousand Ministers were cut off from their publick Ministerial Work as it were in one day by a Law of Conformity Now let us suppose the Minds of Rulers to change which is not naturally impossible and put the case that your Conformity should be made as great a Crime as Non-conformity hath been and yet the true Religion acknowledged and the true Doctrine of Faith owned as you say here pag. 148. ● 6. Though I find Mr. Phil. Nye who is a very considerable Person with you Preface p. 27. In his Beams of Light pag. 192. saying Let the same Impositions and Penalties be