they were bishoppees of priuate places yow haue against yow S. Hierome him selfe Who can not be otherwise taken theÌ„ to meane thus by calling Petre as you hard before the heade of the other Apostles the maister of Christes house the one shepherd vndre whome there might be one faith You shall speake against Chrisostome who speaking of S. Iames the B. of Hierusalem hathe Quôd si quis percontaretur quomodo Homil. â—â—lt in cap. Ioan. vlt. igitur Iacobus sedem Hierosolomis acceperit responderem hunc totius orbis magistrum praeposuisse That if any man woulde aske how then Iames came by the bishoprike of HierusaleÌ„ I woulde answere that the maister of all the worlde Peter made him bishop And a litle after in the same place Nam quum magna Christus Petro communicasset c. For when Christe had communicated greate thinges to Peter and committed to his charge the care of the whole worlde c. Last of all if you will nedes contentiously mainteine that Petre was no more aboue the Apostles as they were bishoppes Arnobius then as they were Apostles theÌ„ to omitte diuerse other that might be alleaged to this effect yow shall saie againste that auncient eloquent and learned father who liued in the In psalm 138. time of persecution before the reigne of Constantine the greate Arnobius the scholemaistre of that eloquent and learned Lactantius who by name calleth Peter EPISCOPVS EPISCOPORVM the B. of bishoppes Seing nowe that Peter is coÌ„fessed by the fathers to be the heade of the apostles the one pastour the maister of the whole world and bishop of bishops which caÌ„ not be in that respecte that the Apostles were all the generall legates of Christe thorough out the whole world what remaineth but to acknowledge that superioritie to haue place as Arnobius wordes importe ouer them as bishoppes And so is youre argument taken from the equalitye of the Apostles shewed to be insufficient to proue your fantasied equalitie of all bishoppes Hetherto you haue talked generally of this epistle of S. Hierome to Euagrius Nowe will you come to the place you saie alleaged by me oute of this epistle Quòd autem postea vnus electus est c. That one was afterwarde chosen to rule the reste that was done for a remedie against schismes c. To this place you adde an other sentence of S. Hierome where for example of that which he had saide he bringeth the churche of Alexandria VVhere from Marke the Euangelist vnto Heracla and Dionisius being bishoppes the priestes did euer place one chosen off their companye in the higher roume and named him bishoppe c. Vpon this place yow conclude as foloweth VVhereby it appeareth plainely that the wordes of Saint Hierrome Nowell â— â–ª a. one chosen afterwarde emongest them to rule the reste for a remedie of schismes doe apperteine to euery bishoppe as heade ruler of the cleargie off his ownâ— diocesse For saieth Saint Hierome suche an heade ruler was chosen at Alexandria in Aegypt c. The example of Alexandria maketh nothing against Dorman my vnderstanding of these wordes to be ment of the Apostles For why might not S. Marke the B. of Alexandria be made bishop there after this fourme of gouernement vsed emongest the Apostles that as emongest the Apostles one was aboue the reste so in Alexandria shoulde be one chiefe ruler aboue the rest of the cleargie there But in this pointe I will contende with no man For howe euer they be to be vnderstande of the Apostles or of euerye bishop as heade ruler off the cleargye in his owne diocesse once this is cleere that by them is proued that of one company there must for the better auoiding of schismes be one heade Againe on the other side you seme to be as indifferent and therefore you adde And withall what so euer was done afterwarde was not done Nowell fol. 43. a. 23 de iure diuino vpon the grounde of Goddes lawe but of an ecclesiasticall ordre and policie I praye you what if this were but an ecclesiasticall ordre Dorman M. Nowell Thinke you it nothing to breake the canons and constitutions of the vniuersall churche Because with men of youre vocation that is counted a small faulte I will proue to the reader euen by S. Hierome him selfe that this ordre to haue one generall heade ouer Christes churche is neither the inuention of ambitiouse popes as before sclaunderously you saide neither grounded only vpon anye ecclesiasticall ordre and policie as here vpon better aduise more modestly you reporte but vpon the infallible grounde of Christes owne expresse ordinaunce S. Hierome therefore writing against one of youre auncestors Iouinian the heretike who maintained that votaries and professed persones might laufully mary for the defence Aug. lib. 2. Retractat cap. 22. Haeresi 82. of this heresie of his for so hath S. Augustine termed it brought the example of Peter who was he saide a maried man By this occasion offred S. Hierome vttreth of S. Peter these wordes At dicis super Petrum fundatur ecclesia Lib. 1. coÌ„trâ— Iouin licet idipsum in alio loco super omnes Apostolos fiat cuncti claues regni coelorum accipiant ex aequo super eos ecclesiae fortitudo solidetur tamen propterea inter duodeeim vnus eligitur vt capite constituto schismatis tollatur occasiâ— â–ª Sed cur non Ioannet electus est virgo AEtati delatum erat quia Petrus senior erat ne adhuc adolescens ac pené puer progressae aetatis hominibus praeferretur magister bonus qui occasionem iurgij debuerat auferre discipulis c. causam praebere videtur inuidiae That is to saye But thou saiest the churche is builded vpon Petre allthough the same in an other place be done vppon all the Apostles and al of them receiue the keyes of heaueÌ„ and indiffereÌ„tly vpon theÌ„ is the strength of the church grounded yeat therfore is there one chosen emoÌ„gest the 12 THAT BY APPOINTING A HEADE OCCASION OF SCHISMES BE TAKEN AWAYE But why was not Iohn chosen being a virgin Age was preferred because Peter was elder Lest a strippling and yeat almost a childe should be preferred before auncient and elderly meÌ„ and the good maister which Christ appointed Peter to be heade shoulde take from his scholers occasion of strife c. might some to ministre cause of enuie Hetherto the wordes off S. Hierome Of the which maye be concluded Firste that this ordre to haue one heade in Christes churche is no ecclesiasticall ordre and policie but an ordre appointed by Christes owne mouthe to begin in his blessed Apostles in whome if this gouernement were necessary for the auoiding of schismes howe muche more necessary it is emongest vs I leaue to the learned and wise to iudge The secoÌ„de coÌ„clusion that I gather vpoÌ„ this place is that here S. Hierome teacheth vs that this common obiection of the heretikes
Italie or Rome it selfe for his wordes haue euidentlie that relation and that none thinke the auctoritie of one bishop to be lesse then the auctoritie an other but a few wicked and desperate men You were driuē to the wall M. Nowell when you were forced Dorman for a pore shift to say that Leo said as he did because he wolde haue bene lord and heade ouer the church S. Cipriā saith that euerie bishop hath his seuerall portion The same saieth Leo. Leo saieth that the charge of the vniuersall church must Lib. 1. ep 3 haue recourse to Peters chaire S. Ciprian saieth not the cōtrarie Yea so saieth S. Ciprian toe calling Rome matricem the mother church And whither should children I pray you haue recourse for succour but to their mother He saith not that the subiecte of one bishop may not appeale to an other Lyes that is one lie He saieth not that the cause determined by one bishop may be called before no other that is an other lie He maketh no comparison as you say he doth betwene the bishoppes of Afrike Italie and Rome behold the third lye He saieth not that none but a fewe wicked and desperate men thinke the auctoritie of one bishop to be lesse then the auctoritie of an other which if he shoulde youre selfe were like by that meanes to be of the nombre of such desperate and wicked men who before acknowledged chiefe prelates a worde that presupposeth other that be inferiour and fol. 32. 2. be cōtrarie to him selfe as I proued before by his writing to Steuen the pope wherby he required him to take ordre by his lettres for the remouing from his bishoprike Martianus the B. of Arles and by that that him selfe sent to Rome to Cornelius to trie the matter before him with those euill mē that complained vpon him there by his excepting againste the sentence giuen by the pope for the restitution of Basilides for no other cause but because it was obteined by false information All which exāples doe not only proue that he was not of the minde that no one bishop was aboue an other but this also that the B. of Rome was of greater auctoritie then the bishoppes of Fraunce Spaine or Afrike Hetherto of the disagrement betwene S. Ciprian and Leo which by this time all men I trust perceiue to be no suche as you vaunted it was yea to be none at all but suche consent rather as in diuerse wordes there can not be greater It foloweth that we examine how Hierome and Leo agree S Hierome yow saye hath that all churches worshipping one Nowell fo 51. a. 10 Borowed out of Caluin Inst. lib. 4 cap. 7. Sect. 3. Christe and obseruing one rule of truthe are equall with the churche of Rome that all bishoppes be the successours of the Apostles and of one priestehod and of the same merite and dignitie But Leo saieth contrarie that it was giuen to one to be aboue all the rest and that they who be in greater diocesses or cities haue more care and auctoritie and that the onelie see of Peter hath charge of the vniuersall churche and is heade thereof Yow belye S. Hierome He saieth not that all the churches Dorman A lye 38. in the worlde be equall If he did he shoulde saie contrarie to Irinaeus who saieth that the churche of Rome hath potentiorem principalitatem greater souereintie then other churches haue contrary to S. Cipriā who calleth Rome the Li. 1. cap. 3 Lib. 1. ep 3. mother churche the roote and principall churche and contrarie to S. Austen who calleth it the churche in the which the principalitie of the apostolicall see hath allwaies florished Epist 162. He saieth that Christes church is not diuided * Nec altera Romanae vrbis ecclesia altera totius orbis existimanda as thoghe Rome were one and the whole worlde an other As for that that he saieth that all bishoppes be the successours off the apostles those wordes make merueilously for the opinion of Leo against you For vpon that proposition of S. Hierome I reason thus All bishoppes be the successours of the Apostles but the Apostles were not all equal because as S Hierom saith Peter was their head Ergo by S. Hieromes minde all bishoppes who be their successours be not equall but haue the successour of Peter their heade Againe Peter was heade of the Apostles and made because there shoulde arise no schisme emongest them Ergo the B. off Rome who is Peters successour must be heade of his felowe bishoppes for the same cause These two propositions that there was emongest the Apostles one heade and that that was Peter be S. Hieromes owne in his first boke against Iouinian The wordes although I rehersed before yeat because they perteine not onelie to this matter but to shewe also how these thre Ciprian Hierome and Leo mete and knit as it were together in this sentence that Christ appointed ouer his church one generall heade I will recite once againe The wordes therfore of S. Hierō to Iouiniā be these At dicis super Petrum fundatur ecclesia licet idipsum in alio loco super omnes apostolos fiat cuncti claues regni coelorum accipiant ex aequo super eos ecclesiae fortitudo solidetur tamen propterea inter duodecim vnus eligitur vt capite constituto schismatis tollatur occasio That is to saie But thou saiest The churche is builded vpon Peter although the same in an other place be done vpon all the Apostles and all of them receiue the keyes of heauen and equallye is the strength of the churche grounded vpon them yeat for all that is there one chosen emongest the twelue that by making a heade emongest them occasion of schisme maye be taken awaye See yow not nowe by this place of S. Hierome M. Nowell howe the equalitie of power that S. Cyprian speaketh of the similitude of honour and equalitie of calling that Leo remembreth the building of the churche in one place vpon all the Apostles indifferentlie that S. Hierome mentioneth notwithstanding they all three conclude in one maner with this worde tamen notwithstanding that the churche was builded vpon one that there was one heade that there was one preferred before the reste This place of S. Hierome as it vtterly stoppeth their mouthes who reason that the Apostles were absolutely in all pointes equall so confirmeth it moste strongly the answere made before to the place of S. Ciprian that the Apostles were all of equall power and auctority that that was true at the first but Ioan. 20. that after oure Lorde last before his ascension gaue the Ioan. 21. chiefe auctoritie to one in respecte as one was chosen from the rest vpon whome the churche shoulde be builded S. Hierome saieth that al bishoppes are of one priesthode and of the same merite you plaie the falsefier and adde of youre owne and of the same dignitie The gentlewoman
run to morowe nexte with the bloude of heretikes as God of his tendre mercie forbid suche hardenes of harte in those that professe them selues to be Christians yeat ought not therefore the cause to be iudged anie whit the better seing that we see the cursed secte of Anabaptistes and haue heard of the wicked Donatistes and knowe beside that the diuell hathe aswell his false witnesses readie to suffer gladlie moste bitter deathe for their conceaued opinions as Christe hathe his true martirs to doe the like for the true catholike faithe Thus muche be saide to M. Nowelles impertinent discourse of copes vestimentes gilted crosses candelstickes c. and to his other idle talcke of the persecution forsothe and martirdome sauing youre reuerences of his deare brethern Nowe at the length he commeth to that whiche he shoulde chiefely haue answered in this place that is of thetrieng of all controuersies by the only scripture To proue that of controuersies rising about the true vnderstandinge of the scripture the scripture it selfe should be the iudge he vseth a similitude wherin he compareth vs to the phariseis and him selfe and his companions to the Apostles And vpon that comparison reasoneth in effecte as foloweth As in the controuersie betwene the Apostles and the Phariseis Nowell fol. 69. a. 1 the question being whether Christe were the true Messias the Apostles affirming the Phariseis denieng if the matter had bene referred to the interpretation and determination of the high prieste and his consistorie we mighte yeat haue loked withe the Iues for Messias to come and as it was no reason that in the controuersie betwene the saide highe priestes and the Apostles whether they had put Christe iustlie or vniustlie to death they shoulde be them selues the iudges who were not onelie accessaries but the principall partes to the murther so must we nowe with the Apostles make the scripture the iudge of oure controuersies and the pope by all reason must be excluded as he that is the sinke of all the abhominations wherewith he that hath but halfe an eye maie see how shamefully the lawe of God is as it was by the Phariseis corrupted Youre similitude M. Nowell halteth and is not able Dorman therefore to go so far as it should For the better declaration whereof it is to be knowen that as sone as Iohn the Baptist Matth. 11. began to preache the Synagoge which had no promise to continue for euer began to languishe and so was at the length weakened that after Christes deathe it came to nothing Christe hauing then established a newe church and made his Apostles the doctours and iudges thereof and Peter the gouernour of all Now see I praye you how this similitude of youres holdeth The Apostles being the true church of Christe referred not their controuersies to the Phariseis which perteined not to the church yea were enemies and persecutours thereof but referred the same to the scriptures and iudged by the scriptures them selues ergo the church of Christe that is nowe maye not be the iudge of controuersies but we must refer the same to the scriptures I denie that consequent M. Nowell You proue it because the Apostles did not referre their controuersies to the high priestes and Phariseis I graunte you for their priestehode and auctoritie was expired When you shal be hable to proue vs Phariseis and your selues the true churche then maie you by this similitude reason that as the Apostles referred not the iudgement of the meaning of the scriptures to the Phariseis which were not the church nor of the church so you will not being the church refer the matter to vs but iudge of the scripture your selues as the Apostles The Apostles being the true churche of Christe iudged of the scriptures did In the meane season as the Apostles alleaged for thē selues the scripture and saied it made for thē wherein they gaue iudgement of the scripture so foloweth it that Christes church which is now the same that was then iudgeth in al controuersies which is the right and true sense Neither can it serue you to saie to the contrarie as you doe sclaunderouslie that the worde of God hauing bene moste shamefully by vs corrupted as he that hath but halfe an eye maie well see it is no reason being parties that we shoulde be iudges therein Seing that thus might the Phariseis haue saide euen of the Apostles them selues and laied to their charges partialitie because they were Christes scholers and disciples and so parties to the cause whiche they mainteined and also for that you haue not as yeat proued nor euer shal be hable to proue that Christes church hath euer erred in the faith or the heade thereof at anie time deliuered to the church any tradition or erroniouse opinion whereby the worde of God hath bene corrupted Which assertion of youres being moste directly against the scriptures bearing witnes so manifestly Math. 14. 16. Ioan. 14. alibi of the continuance of the churche incorrupted so often auouched by you and being the only fundation of this plea of youres that we be the Phariseis and you Christes true Apostles me thinketh you should haue done well once in so often affirming it to haue proued by one sentence of scripture or some approued auctor and not facingly to saye that he that hathe but halfe an eye maie see that it is so or elles till you coulde haue proued it it had bene more for your honestie to haue absteined from suche vnmercifull and vnchristianlike demeanure as you vse towardes bothe the church of Christe and the head thereof Where you saye that I will haue the scripture reiected there you reporte vntrulie of me This I saie that scripture not thorough anie imperfection or insufficiencie that is in it but onelie by occasiō of stubborne wrangling and contentiouse natures who neuer will giue ouer the opinion that they haue once conceiued euerie one being at apoint to receiue no other interpretation thereof thē to them shal seme good is not hable to ende and determine al cōtrouersies moued vpō the lettre thereof and that therfore euen as in the lawes of the realme whiche were to decide all controuersies sufficient so that the lawe being broughte euerie man woulde furthewithe yealde to it because they will not there be iudges by the prince appointed to cut of all altercations and to preserue the realme in quiet who when the councellours bothe of the one parte and the other haue contentiouslie disputed the matter eache of them affirming that the lawe is on his side shall by opening the meaning thereof ende the strife So is it not to be thought but that God forseing the innumerable sectes of heretikes that shoulde trouble his churche of whome there shoulde be no one no not of them that directlie blush not to teache Suencfeldius that there ought to be no scripture at all that woulde not colourablie defende the same by scripture it is not I saie to be
vnlearned you vse termes like youre selfe against this chaire of S. Petre minding as I take it to persuade that I shoulde drawe S. Hieromes wordes to suche a meaning as that he shoulde meane that Christes churche were builded vpon a materiall chaire You maye be ashamed M. Nowel where you lacke iust matter to blotte paper and waste incke with suche cauilling triffles as euerie man that hath common sense wil as sone as they haue passed once youre mouthe be hable to discouer and reproue Dothe not S. Hierome in this place make twise expresse mention of Petres chaire Why triumphe you not ouer him as you crowe against me with youre foolishe and vnsauory Rhetorike and saie that he was well occupied to write from Siria to Rome for councell from a rotten chaire that he was a wise man to ioyne him selfe in communion theretoe Who seeth not that yow woulde haue taken the matter as whotly with S. Hierome as you doe with me hauing as good cause alltogether sauing that yow feared the burning of youre lippes I saie therefore M. Nowell that VVhat S. Hierome ment by Peters chayre S. Hierome to answere you in this pointe if you were so verie a dolt that you vnderstode it not before by building the churche vpon Petres chaire meaneth euen as he did in those two places before where you can not denie but that he maketh expresse mention of that chaire Sainte Hierome meaneth there no materiall chaire and therefore no rotten chaire as you like a rotten membre and deuided from the churche blasphemously saie He meaneth as Matt◠23 Christe doeth in the ghospell speaking of Moises chaire as the fathers Cipriā Epiphanius Austen Ambrose Optatus and the rest doe as often as they vse this worde that is to saie by the chayre the power and bishoplike auctoritie which Petre hauing giuē to him cōmitted to his successours For euē as a riuer though it runne manie thousandes of miles leeseth not yeat but reteineth neuerthelesse the name of the founteine and heade spring from whence it came so fareth it in the succession of bishoppes that how many so euer there be that succede yeat they are all saide to possesse the chaire of him that ruled firste yea allthough euerie of them had made for him selfe a newe chaire For the matter consisteth not as I saide before in materiall chaires no more then doth the opening or shutting of heauen gates depende vpon materiall keyes And as well might you like a Lucianist or a Porphirian haue scoffed at Christe for saing that the scribes and Phariseis sate vpon Moises chaire which if they had had emōgest them if euer Moises sate in anie should at that time haue bene as rotten as is S. Petres nowe there being betwene Moises and S. Petre not manie fewer yeares then are nowe betwene S. Petre and oure time or for making keyes for heauen as yow doe against me But to let this passe and to exaggerate no furder that for the which at the handes of suche as be of the learneder and wiser sorte you are like to susteine punishment enough by incurring the note of this infamie to be no learned reasoner but a railing wrangler I will nowe as compendiously as maie be iustifie the inserting of this Parenthesis Peters chaire First these wordes vpon this rocke I knowe the churche to be builded ought to be referred rather as youre selfe before confessed and in this case if in anie you ought to be beleued for you haue bene a scholemaister and practised better in the gramer rules then in the scriptures and fathers writinges to the wordes that go nearest before but the wordes Peters chaire are placed nearest before Therefore by youre owne confession the building of the churche ought to be referred thither Againe S. Hierome in this place it is to be presumed alluded in these wordes I knowe the churche to be buylded on that rocke to the wordes of the ghospell Tues petrus super hanc petram aedificabo ecclesiam meam Thow Matt. 16. arte Petre and vpon this rocke wil I builde my church But in that place Christe appointed an other fundation of the church beside him selfe to wit Peter It foloweth therefore that S. Hierome in this place ment not of Christ but of Peters chaire that is Peters auctoritie or Peter him selfe Thirdly it is more then probable that sainte Hierome mēt not in this place of building the churche vpon Christe only but vpon Petre also nexte after Christe because to him that with iudgement wil reade the epistle considre duly the circunstances especially the beginning it shal appeare that his whole talcke is so framed that whereas of purpose and directly he maketh mention of consulting Peters chaire off ioyning him selfe to Peters chaire and in that whole discourse of his setteth furthe the praises of the churche off Rome he speaketh of Christe but incidently and as it were by the waie of a parenthesis and that toe to auaunce the dignitye of the See of Rome as before the which he woulde preferre he saide none but Christe The whiche being so what sounde iudgement will not rather refer these wordes aboute whiche the controuersie is to that whiche is principally and directly handled rather then to that which is mentioned but incidently and indirectly Last of all it is to be iudged that S. Hierome agreeth here with his owne writinges in other places Nowe is this euident that euen the thirde epistle before thys he saieth in plaine wordes that the churche was builded vppon Petre. His wordes are Apostolus Petrus super quem Dominus fundauit ecclesiam Tom. 2. epist ad Marcellā Petre the Apostle vpon whom our lorde founded his churche Thus you see good Readers I trust howe falselye and withoute all cause M. Nowell hathe quarelled with me for this parenthesis added only to make more plaine the wordes of Saint Hierome It foloweth that I showe to you howe he prosecuteth his purposed malice by the auctorities of Erasmus and S. Augustine in the 108. 109. and 110. leaues Erasmus saieth M. Nowell cleane contrarye to all papistes Nowell fol. 108. a. 18. saieth in his notes vpon these wordes Super illam petram c. Non super Romam vt arbitror c. That is to saie Vpon that rocke not vpon Rome I trowe c. From Erasmus thus farre we dissent not that we knowe Dorman as well as he that the church was not built vpō Rome For if Rome were sacked as God forbid to morowe nexte the church should continue neuerthelesse although the bishop went from thence and shoulde sit at the meanest towne in all Italye or elles where As for that that he woulde haue the churche to be builded by S. Hieromes meaning vppon Peters faithe that first he affirmeth not confidently but saieth he troweth so next it maye be saide that in this place Erasmus telleth his owne opinion in the other place off this epistle vpon these wordes Extra hanc domum without this
by and by to be confounded as one in truthe and nature the names whereof be confounded Otherwise because the Apostles are in the gospell called disciples an Apostle and a disciple are all one which is well knowen not to be so Likewise though the termes of prieste and bishop were common yeat the thinges were neuer one in so muche that S. Austen making mention of the heresie of Aerius saieth Dicebat etiam praesbiterum ab episcopo nulla differentia secerni debere He saide Ad quod vult Deum haeres 57. also that a prieste ought to be distinguished from a bishop by no difference But what meane you here M. Nowell to talcke so much of the equalitie of bishoppes and priestes being a matter in this place nothing to oure purpose Or if it were seing it might be saide that euen as the olde canons as I declared before in that equalitie which is in priestehode vsed yeat In the 6. chapitre fol. 33. b. the worde Archipraesbiter chiefe prieste and ordeined suche a dignitie in the churche so there is nothing that letteth why in the equalitie of bishoppes and priestes while no one is more bishop or prieste then an other there maie How one bishop is equall to an other not be degrees notwithstanding of superioritie allthough not in the sacrament of ordres which is common to them all yeat in the execution of that power that is conferred thereby But perhappes you be of the opinion youre selfe that there ought to be no difference betwene a bishop and a prieste and therefore are the gladder to snatche occasion by all meanes direct or indirect to vtter youre minde therin Nowe foloweth vpon this grounde laied that bishoppes and priestes be by the first institution and the lawe of God one youre conclusion whereby you will make it appeare that you haue not without cause made mention of this equalitie of bishoppes and priestes So that all bishoppes which be the successours of the Apostles Nowell b. 24. be also praesbiteri that is to saie elders or priestes Whereof it foloweth also that there is an equalitie emongest all bishoppes by goddes lawe as the equall successours of the Apostles And that this is S. Hieromes minde in that place all learned men who haue reade the saide epistle doe well knowe This was not the minde of S. Hierome but is an idle Dorman phantasy of youre owne The learned knowe and to their iudgement I appeale that his minde was here to compare together the state of a prieste and a bishop in the sacrament of holie ordres common aswell to the one as to the other that so he might refell the better the errour of those who helde that deacons ought to be equall to priestes as appeareth by these wordes of his in the beginning of the epistle In this epistle ad Euagri◠Nam quum Apostolus c. For whereas the Apostle teacheth manifestly that priestes and bishoppes be one what eyleth the seruaūt * He meaneth deacons of widowes and tables arrogātly to extoll him selfe aboue them at whose praiers the bodie and bloud of Christe is made Doth not this example put in the consecrating of the bodie and bloude off Christe the whiche the poorest prieste that is hathe as good auctoritie to doe giuen hym in the sacrament of holie ordres as the pope him selfe declare that S. Hieromes minde was no otherwise to make priestes equall to bishoppes but in the only ordre of priestehode common to bothe Yea but yow will saie that the Apostles were equall in all respectes for if you saie not so you can not conclude absolutely as yow doe that all bishoppes their successours be so equall If yow saie so that is but your bare Lib. 1. contra Iouinianum saing only not by the auctoritie of S. Hierome confirmed but most plainly by the same impugned Who in one place saieth that emongest the twelue there was a heade chosen Peter by name and in an other place that Christ made Peter In cap. Marci 14. Note the cause of appointing one heade the maister of his house THAT VNDER ONE SHEPHERD THERE MAY BE ONE FAITH Which is directly against the equalitie that you build vpō But let it be graunted vnto you that the apostles were equal yeat shall not your cōclusion folow for all that For it is to be considered that in the Apostles there is a double respect which is to be weighed nowe of vs. Either we considre them as they were all Apostles or as they were bishoppes As they were Apostles they How the Apostles were all equall were all equall they had all like power to preache and teache thorough out the whole worlde As they were bishoppes and rulers of particuler churches they were all subiect to Petre the chiefe bishop of all As they were Apostles that is to saye generall legates to plante Christes faithe thorough out all the world to founde churchs to preach the word of God finally to gouerne vniuersally in all places where their should come they trāsmitted this right none of thē to their successours but only Peter who was the generall shepherd of all Which is the cause that some of the fathers namely S. Austē saie that the power giuen to Peter was giuē to him In psalm 208. in the persone of the church because it was not giuē to him alone but to all his successours to cōtinue for euer As the Apostles were bishops of particuler places their auctoritie ended not with them but wēt further to the whole church to cōtinue for euer Now to applye this to our purpose howe doe the bishoppes that now are succede the Apostles They succede them as bishoppes not as Apostles For if they succeded them so who seeth not that as the Apostles made lawes absolued excommunicated and ruled thorough out all How bisshoppes be the successours of the Apostles the worlde where so euer they came so might the bishoppes that nowe succede thē doe the like The which thing seing we finde by no recordes sith the apostles time that euer it was practised in the church and if it should it were the nexte waie to disquiet al the worlde and to fill the churche full of schismes and heresies reason it selfe dothe conuince that the ordre taken emongest the Apostles was but by speciall priuileage not appointed to continue for euer or to derogate anie thing from the generall ordre begonne in Peter and appointed to be perpetuall as long as the church shoulde endure To conclude therfore I graunte to you M. Nowell that the Apostles were equall as they were all the generall legates of Christe but not as they had their speciall bishoprikes and charges limited vnto them In which latter sense because the bishoppes that are nowe succede the Apostles in which pointe they were not equall it foloweth against you that all bishoppes be not equall Iff yow will saye that the Apostles were also equall euen in that that
this is a frowarde heretike might denie S. Paules epistles to the Corinthiās especiallie the Latter in the which the case so requiring he glorieth so farre that him selfe confesseth that he hath played the foole 2. Corinth cap. 11. 1◠compelled thereto by them Ywisse S. Paule was as much subiect to persecution and deathe as anie of the popes that you haue named He had as litle lust or leisour to occupie his heade or pen about the setting furthe of him selfe to boaste of his apostleship to tel of his reuelations as anie of them But necessitie compelling bothe him and them to stande vpon their auctoritie it was expedient that they shoulde earnestlie set furthe the same The epistles that you speake of here to haue bene forged were gathered together aboue nine hundred yeares past by one Isidorus archebisshop of Hispalis in Spaine so that when you come to proue this matter those popes of these latter nine hundred yeares you see how they be discharged Now M. Nowell if you thinke that you haue walcked long inough out of the waye we will returne thither from whence we departed to the. 53. Leafe of youre booke The which because as the reader maye see it conteineth nothing but very matter of bragges not worthy to be answered I steppe ouer Ofschismes and sectes wherewith M. Nowell burdeneth the Catholikes The 17. Chapitre HERE M. Nowell by occasion of a fewe lines but such Nowell fol. 54. a. belike as touched him to the quicke and made him to wynse discourseth in manie leaues in defence of schismes and sectes This note of mine whereby I admonished the reader for better credite to be giuen hereafter to the auncient fathers Cypriā and Hierom who telling vs that the not obeing of one chiefe heade in one seuerall diocesse is the cause of schismes and heresies saye withall allthough not in expresse wordes asmuche by force of greater reason vnlesse there be one suche heade acknowledged and obeied in the vniforme gouernement of the whole churche to haue an eye to the present schismes whiche haue burst in vpon vs in oure countrie in stede of one commō receiued truthe in the daies of oure fathers this note I saie so graueled M. Nowell rubbing him on the verie heade of that festred boile of his poisoned heresie that he coulde finde no grounde to stande vpon but nedes must he fling out and laie about him as a man halfe wood and beside himselfe sparing none not the blessed Apostles them selues He beginneth this pastime after his accustomed maner with this Lewde lye It is well knowen that there is as muche consent in true doctrine Nowell A facing lye 44. in the churche of Englande at this time as euer was in anie realme at anie time What a face thinke you hath this man or hath he anie Dorman face or forheade at all I will not trouble him with forein realmes shewing him what consent in true doctrine there is presently in manie Catholike countries nor I will not appeale to all the former ages that haue passed I will only put him in remembraunce of the consent in true doctrine in oure owne countrie fifty yeares ago Can you saye M. Nowel for with you I loue gladliest to talcke that there was then anie dissention in doctrine at all Can yow recken vs vp anie diuersitie of opinions touching beliefe in all the realme of England at that time Will you saie they had no true doctrine at all and therfore no consent in true doctrine If you saie so then name vs a time when there was euer true doctrine in Englande that suche a time being knowen it maie be proued vnto you that there were no suche sectes and schismes then as rage emongest you nowe Note vnto vs the yeare and religion vsed at any tyme since oure realme was firste christened when yow write nexte that we maye aske you whether at that tyme Caūtorbury Rochester Glocestre were of one opiniō cōcerning the presence of Christes most blessed body bloude in the sacramēt and Londō Winchester and Dirham of a cleane contrary as they are nowe that occupye these roomes Who hathe not hearde of a sermon latelye preached before the Queenes maiestye in the defence of the reall presence and the preacher called of his brethern for his labour an asse in a Rochet the Sermon it selfe by a mightye Samson shortly after as it semed confuted Is this a consent in true doctrine M. Nowell Haue you not hearde off these Sermones Or if you hearde them did you nodde there while and beare so litle awaye that you haue cleane forgotten the whole matter telling vs nowe scarse oute of youre sleepe that you haue as muche consent in true doctrine as euer was in anye realme at anye tyme How many of youre brethern be of Verons minde touching predestination Let M. Moulins the vsurper of the Archedeaconry of London youre neighbour tell you M. Nowell why he did excommunicate M. Thomas Walbot a ministre in London Let the saide Walbot instructe you who they are that in his learned supplication to M. Doctour Parker he calleth Florinitians Tell vs M. Nowell whereof it procedeth that three of the moste graue modeste and learned emongest yow men to saye the truthe in all respectes heresye set a parte worthy to beare the office off M. D. Parker M. Cheyny M. Gest true bishoppes in Christes churche are of their subiectes so contemptuouslye set at naught whereof I saye it procedeth that one is called Matthewe meale mouthe a Lince wolsy bishoppe c. that the other hathe Moyer the ministre of Wootton vnder headge borne out against him the thirde termed an Asse but of this that there be schismes and sectes emongest you Are you ignoraunt M. Nowell what cōmunion M. Whittingham celebrated at Duresme not onely against the mynde of his bishoppe but the ordre appointed also by the communion booke Neuer hearde you what a singuler and straunge maner off baptisme he deuised and ministred at Duresme Is al this in your eye consent in true doctrine when you agree not emongest youre selues neither in the substance of the chiefest Sacramentes neither in the maner of their ministration Are we ignoraunt thinke you of the Anabaptistes Arrians Eluidians and whole swarmes of these and other heretikes that lye smoothering in corners looking for the ioyfull tyme of their deliueraunce in to the world and broade light as you and youre felowes did 30. yeares ago Are we ignoraunt thereoff because when some of them sturring before their tyme are brought before youre bishoppes they are with good wordes of greate policie dismissed with exhortation to them to lyue lyke quiet subiectes c. Lest suche hastie and vntimely teeming might be not onely the vtter ruine and ouerthrowe of all those heresyes that hauing nowe continued almost twentie yeares begin to growe to mannes state but of so muche faire issue allso as that cursed moother is lyke to bring furthe hereafter Iudge you vs to
preache Foxes testimonie of Saint Frauncis he thought to imitate the same in him selfe and his disciples and left of shoes 〈◊〉 but one coate and that of Vile clothe in stede of a latchet to 〈◊〉 and of a girdle he toke aboute him an hempen corde and ◠appareled his disciples teaching them to fullfill for so he speaketh the perfection of the ghospell to apprehende pouertye and to walke in the waye of holye simplicie He left in writing to his disciples and folowers his rule which he called Regulam euangelicam i. the rule of the ghospel as though the gospel of Christ were not a sufficiēt rule to all Christian men but it must take his perfectiō of frātike Fraūcis Hetherto this frātike fox Now whether these be iust causes to storme and toke on as he dothe against this blessed saincte for either these be the causes or he giueth none at al let the wise and godly reader iudge Whereas he calleth him frantike for calling his rule the rule of the ghospel what woulde he haue sayed of him if he had termed it a rule of mannes inuention which nowe rageth so for calling it the rule of the ghospell But he quarelleth with him because by this rule giuen by him to his disciples it shoulde seme that the ghospell off Christe were not a sufficient rule c. O fonde man By that meanes might he also call S. Paule frantike for writing Folowe Philipp 3. me brethern and marke them whiche walke so as we haue giuen yow the example As thoughe the example of Christe were not sufficient but it must take his perfection in saint Paule For euen as S. Paule willed the Philippenses none otherwise to folowe him then as he folowed Christe so did saint Frauncis giue no other rule then Christe had giuen before as the title of his rule it selfe dothe declare And as S. Paule willed them to folowe him because he folowed Christ so deliuered S. Frauncis to those that would folow him that rule of Christe to be embrased in suche sorte as he had giuen them the example before This fox runneth on his course and spareth not with his taile to caste his vrine in mennes eyes For he addeth This Frauncis as he was superstitiouse Fox counteth it superstition to cast awaye worldly Goddes in casting all thinges from him euen also the girdle girding a coarde aboute him so in outewarde chastising of him selfe so streight he was to him selfe leauing the ordinarye remedye appointed by God that in winter season he couered his bodye with yse and snowe He called pouertie his ladie he kept nothing ouer night Merueile not nowe good reader if M. Nowell call religiouse men popishe schismes and sectes if he charge them with forsaking the religion and name of Christe when thow hearest the abandoning and casting awaye of worldly gooddes the embrasing of pouertie the free committing of a mannes selfe to Goddes prouidence without carcke or care what shall become of him on the morowe according to Christes owne counsell the chastising off Matth. 19. 6. the bodye to make it seruiseable to the spirite vsed by saint Paule when I saye thow hearest all this expressely called superstition ceasse to merueile anye longer Of this blessed 1. Cor. 9. saincte S. Frauncis I coulde saie muche listed I to make impertinent discourses Although of his vertue and holynesse there can be no greater testimonie then that his ennemies them selues can finde nothing to obiect against him but that which Chirste and his Apostles taught and practised and euerye good man shoulde wishe to be in him selfe For which cause Henricus Pantaleon an heretike as M. Fox is but yeat of a more calmer spirite speaking of him in hys Chronographie vseth these wordes S. Franciscus Asisius Pag. 95. Hispanus sanctitate eruditione illustris in Italia claret S. Frauncis a spaniarde of the towne of Asisium famouse for his holynesse and learning florisheth in Italie Wel yow see good readers what Nowelles oure vnhappye age that can abide nothing that well is hathe brought furthe Yow see what foxes Sathan the maister of the game hathe vnkenelled in oure countrie of England to destroye oure Lordes vineyarde Yow are not ignorāt what flesheflies and canon crowes haue builded their neastes euen in the churche off God Oure Lorde graunte vs as we see them and knowe them so to flee them and auoide them But now to returne to M. Nowell some man maie happely aske me what answere I make to the scripture noted here in the margēt forbidding expressely that we call not men oure fathers on Fol. 54. b. 31. Matth. 23. earthe which these ordres of religiouse men doe To this I answere with Euthimius Theophilact and S. Hierom vpō this place that we are not by these wordes forbidden to Euthimius Theophilactus Hieron in ca. Matth. 23. call them that begot vs either to the worlde by the fleshe or to God by the spirite fathers The wordes of Euthimius are these Hoc dixit non prohibens vocari patres eos qui iuxta carnem genuerunt c. This Christ spake not forbidding them to be called fathers who haue begotten other either carnally or spiritually but that we might knowe who is chiefely and as the verie first cause to be called oure father For that father of oures is god only that is in heauen they that begette vs after the fleshe or after the spirite be worckers together with God and ministres rather of oure natiuitie He saieth therfore call none youre father in earthe as youre chiefe father and first cause of youre being for that father is but one which is in heauen With Euthimius agreeth Theophilact saing of this place Nō vt neminē patrem vocent sed ne ignorent quem principaliter patrem vocare oporteat Not that we shoulde call no man father but that we shoulde not be ignorant whome we ought specially to call fathers S. Hierome moueth this verie obiection vpon this place Howe then the monckes of Aegipt and Palestina were called fathers how S. Paule contrary to this precepte 2. Cor. 5. forbidding aswell the name of maister as of father called him selfe the maister of the gentiles To the whiche he answereth agreing with Euthimius and Theophilact that there is one principall maister one speciall father that all other be fathers and maisters but not properly Thus called S. Paul the Corinth His children and him selfe 1. Cor. 4. their father Thus called the monckes in S. Austens time their heades fathers Thus call those of S. Benedicte Lib. de morib eccl cathol cap. 31. his ordre S. Benedict their father because Christ wrought by him as an instrumēt this spirituall birthe in them Thus doe the Cistertians Carmelites Chartusians Franciscans with the rest Emongest whome I can not but note how warely and wisely yow passed ouer the Augustines left yow shoulde either haue bene driuen to make S. Austen the auctor of a popishe and schismaticall
sprong vp euen with youre first maister and his scholers as youre selues can not denie and departe from Christes knowen churche or elles Christe had no churche at all as those disciples off Christe that you speake off did With whom youre resemblaunce is so muche the greater because that as these first heretikes departed from the church Christe and his Apostles because they would not beleue in Christes doctrine of the blessed sacrament so haue you parted a greate nombre of yow from vs for the same cause and mainteine the same heresie as S. Augustine In psalm 54. calleth it Nowe as it were no good reason to proue vs schismatikes because yow are parted from vs being onoe as yow can not denye of vs so can no man iustly charge Christe and his Apostles with that crime because his disciples parted from him And as I answere to this so doe I to youre other obiections of the schismatikes in S. Paules time of those other also of the Nicolaites the Simonians Cerinthians c. who all parting from the knowen churche of Christe ought not to preiudicate the same For their departure was alwaies so sensible that the true christian might saye with S. Iohn They haue departed from emongest Ioan. 1. cap. 2. vs but they were none of vs. The Apostles and their companye remained alwaies a visible and knowen churche So that these examples can nothing helpe to couer your schismaticall sores whereas in Christe and the Apostles them selues there was neuer anye breache of vnitie whiche yow shoulde haue proued lykewyse therby to excuse your first Christ and his Apostles Whereas an other plea of youres is that emongest the high priestes and Phariseis there was no dissention but greate vnity and concorde emongest them against Christes Apostles to that I saye that although they agreed in this all to persecute the Apostles yeat emongest them selues they were Ioseph lib. Antiq. Iudaie 13. cap. 8. diuided into sectes and schismes some being called Phariseis other some Sadduces and yeat a thirde secte called Esseni so that they resemble more liuely yow protestantes then vs catholikes agreing as the Phariseis did against the truthe and diuided also with them into sectes emongest youreselues If you departed from vs as Christ and the Apostles you saie did from the high priestes and their churche then should you be at vnitie and concorde emoÌ„gest your selues as the Apostles were then must you shewe out of the scripture the fall of the churche of Christe the corruption of Esaiae 6â— the same and the restitution in the latter daies to come all Esaiae 66. Hierem. 6. Ezech. 44 Habacuc 2. Act. 7. 13. 28. foreprophecied in the lawe as the Apostles proued oute of the scripture the fall of the Sinagoge the corruption of the high priestes the comming of Messias the placing of the newe lawe that shoulde continue When yowe can proue this and defeate Christes promise made of his churche to be visible and vniuersall ouer all the worlde and to his churche to continue for euer then call vs phariseis hardely Matth. 16. and spare not calle youre selues Christe and his apostles we giue yow leaue For furder excuse of your schismes and diuisions yow fo 56. b. 1. tell vs of the troubles that rose in Iurie and shortly after ouer all the world vpoÌ„ the preaching of Christes gospell c. If diuisions and troubles were then it is not to be merueiled at oure sauiour him selfe saing of him selfe non veni pacem Matth. 10. mittere sed gladium I come not to sende peace but a sworde But oure age is not nowe M. Nowell the primitiue churche oure faithe is not nowe to be begonne of newe It hathe bene with consent of all the worlde established these 12. hundred yeares And therefore youre comparison is lewde and vntrue Yow saie furder And as iustly might yow charge the Apostles and their doctrine Nowell with those schismes sectes and troubles as yow do charge vs with those that haue risen in oure dayes Euer yow harpe vpon that string that yow woulde be Dorman like the apostles which when yow can proue that Christ promised to builde an other churche beside that whereof he made Peter the heade and that frier Martine Luther shoulde be the seconde Messias and Zuinglius or Carolstadius the heade therof then we will easely graunte to you But note againe I praie yow M. Nowell the difference of the schismes arising in the Apostles time and of youre schismes arising in our time The Apostles were not at diuision emongest them selues yow are The Apostles were before those schismes yowe haue risen together with the schismes Those schismes departed out from the Apostles your schismes are within youre selues Againe see the agrement of those schismes with youres and confer the case of the state of the churche nowe with that of the primitiue churche then Those schismes and sectes departed out off the primitiue churche euen so haue yow departed nowe oute of the same churche being of longre continuance They being departed multiplied into mo schismes and parted into farder diuision yow being departed multiply daily from schisme to schisme and newe sectes haue risen sence youre departure from Martin Luther They troubled and disquieted the primitiue church of the Apostles yow trouble and disquiet the catholike churche that nowe is If you demaunde the prouffe of this which I saie answer the booke which I am suer yow will neuer be hable to answere lately set furthe in oure tongue moste truly called The forteresse of the faithe c. And shewe vs as you will stande to it hereafter when the faith and light of goddes holy word which yow saie hathe nowe of late sprong againe was extinguished where and by whome Where it is well knowen to the worlde that oure learned men Nowell haue by their writinges more oppugned and repressed the saide sectes then all the papistes haue done This is that whiche I saide before that yow in dede Dorman wright diligently one against an other which is a moste euident assurance of youre dissention in doctrine And if these youre writinges were in the vulgare tongues to be reade of all men there woulde be no better argument in the worlde to disgrace youre doctrine for euer Whereas yow compare your diligence in writing with that of the catholikes if the late writinges of learned catholikes of all countries especially of Germanie it selfe were in dede compared to youres it shoulde appeare howe false and vntrue this is In dede we must nedes confesse a truthe that whilest we all remained Nowell vnder this quiet obedience of youre Romishe heade in one doctrine of his traditions there was a coloured kinde of quiâ—tnesse c. Foelix necessitas quae cogit ad meliora Happye is the Dorman necessitie whiche forceth to the better Here M. Nowell correcting him selfe for that before he charged vs so heynously withe schismes and sectes wyll somewhat
also because how true they are I had rather make the worlde iudge then my selfe I esteme not and therefore I passe ouer in silence Whereas yow liken me to Iudas for that yow saie I haue forsaken my maister Christe in hope of worldly gaine all though partly the condition and state of my life that I nowe leade will answere for me in that respecte yeat thus muche I maie saie beside that when I left youre pestilent and perniciouse opiniōs being of age betwene fiftene and sixtene it is not likely that I cast anie great eye after worldly gaine If I had I would belike hauing left my house and the hope of so good a felowship in so famouse a colleage as the new colleage in Oxford is knowen to be for my cōscience sake in king Edwardes daies haue ben afterward when the time serued better a greater prowler for liuinges thē I was the greatest and only liuing that I had or desired to haue being a felowshippe in Allsollen colleage Or if fortune had not fauoured me then if worldlie gaine had bene so muche in mine eye I woulde in this time haue putt my selfe forwarde when I sawe some of mine owne fellowes as meane as I called to be Chauncelours to bishoppes other some to be Archedeacons manie to greate and riche benefices and not contrariewise haue abandoned all and sought strange countries thinking there to finde worldlye gaine As for D. Harding allthough he be able to saie muche more for him selfe yet this maie I saie because it is manifest that in refusing to ioyne with yowe in youre heresies he lost as good promotions as yow haue anie and was a man coulde he haue framed his conscience to your procedinges like to haue had as good parte of worldly gaine as yow or a better man then yowe either But of this lewde lye I can saie no more but A lye 70. transeat cum coeteris Nowe to the seconde point in whiche yow procede thus Swenckfield saieth M. Dorman doth saie we must haue no Nowell fo 84. a. 6 scripture c. The Huguenotes and heretikes saie we muste haue no pope of Rome to be heade of Christes vniuersall churche Lo Sir yow see a greate likenes betwene them c. No greate likenesse indede M. Nowell as yowe haue Dorman handled the matter But if yowe had trulie and whollie rehersed my wordes and added the cause whiche the Swenckfeldian bringeth for his opinion because God can M. Nowell cutteth away the chiefe parte off my wordes teache vs without withe the reason that yowe alleage why we ought to haue no heade of the churche because God is the heade him selfe and can rule it without any other then yff yow had cried Lo Sir you see a greate likenesse betwene them other men had bene like to haue soothed that in good earnest whiche nowe yowe vtter so pleasantly in sporte As yowe cutt of here the two reasons in whiche bothe the Swenckfeldians and yow agree they to banishe awaie the scripture and yow to ouerthrowe the heade of the churche so to make the conference the more vnlike yowe chaunge my wordes by casting in of the name of the pope of Rome whome I name not here but intreate onelie in generall wordes of one heade that ought to be in christes churche The nexte pointe wherein I compare yowe withe the A. 10. Swenckfeldians is that as they reiecte the scriptures sainge they are but dead lettres so doe yowe the pope beinge the heade of the churche saing that he is but a sinfull man as other are and therefore as vnmete being but a sinfull man to gouerne the whole churche as is the scripture whiche they call deade lettres and to be accounted emongest other creatures to signifie to vs the will and pleasure of oure Lorde God Thus haue I shewed the similitude why doe yowe skornefully mocke at it and shewe not rather the dissimilitude Finally I compare yowe withe the Swenckfeldians because A. 16. as they barre God of suche externall meanes as it hathe pleased him teache to vs by that is the scripture so doe you of suche externall gouernour as it pleaseth him to gouerne his churche by that is one generall heade to gouerne the whole Thus I reasoned and thus yow doe Against the whiche yowe haue nothing to saie but to singe youre olde song often saide but neuer proued that it belongeth to B. 8. onelie Christe to gouerue his churche and that it is impossible for one only man to doe it and so conclude with a fit of railing against the pope and there an ende Whereas M. Dorman procedeth saing that we tell Christe that Nowell fo 85. a. 7. he is of age and able to doe it him selfe and that therfore there is no remedie but he must nedes come downe and giue answere to all oure wise demaundes in his owne person I trust that all men do knowe that M. Dorman did knowe that he lied lewdely when he did write this I lied not M. Nowell For allthough yow saye not so Dorman muche in wordes youre dedes speake as much all together seing that yow alowe vs not one suche heade as maie by his auctoritie ende and determine all controuersies rising in the church without the which either the churche must from time to time be miserably shaken with schismes whiche I thinke you meane not either Christe come downe and giue answere in his owne person whiche is the thing that yow be offendid with me for saing of you vpon good and iust cause as you see Hauing nowe as yow thinke well purged youre parte yow will matche vs withe Swenckfield and therfore you saye And M. Dorman and all the aduersaries to the truth maie be ashamed Nowell a. 30. b. 3. to charge vs as not alowing Christe meanes to worcke his spirituall grace by but vexing him by calling for his corporal presence whereas they them selues as those that thinke he can doe nothing excepte he be corporall present woulde turmoyle him euery houre and minute also from place to place and would imprison him allso in narowe and streight roumes passing little ease in the tower of London manifolde If you alowe him suche meanes as yow speake of why Dorman make you so muche adoe about this that he can rule his churche alone that he nedeth no other cet It is vntruly and blasphemously saide of you that we woulde turmoile Christe euery houre and minute which you meane of his presence in the blessed sacrament from place to place that that pretiouse body of his being reserued for the benefite of Christian men is imprisoned We abhorre suche grosse and locall mutation as muche as yow We saye withe Chrisostome O miraculum O dei benignitatem qui cum patre sursum sedet in illo ipso temporis articulo omnium manibus pertractatur Lib. 3. de Sacerdotio O miracle o the benignitie of God which when he sitteth aboue
haue loked so farre in the 34. and 35. leafe of my firste booke Nowe to the place of Chore Dathan and Abiron of the whiche you saye Nowell B. 5. thus Concerning the reason made by Chore Dathan and Abiron that the people ought not to obeye their gouernours because they be all holye * These wordes and the lorde is emōgest them left oute by M. Nowell Dorman and that therefore the magistrates ought not to lifte them selues aboue the Lordes people it is not oure reason cet No in dede M. Nowell as you haue alleaged it it is not youre reason But if you had trulye reported it it woulde haue gone as nere to your reason as twelue pense to a shilling But you doe here as you did before with the reasons of Swenckfielde that is leaue oute the chiefe reason wherein the comparison is made and then crie oute vpon me for making suche wise comparisons Who seeth not that I compare you hereto these schismatikes refusing to obeye Moises and Aaron not because they saide they were all holy but because they added in ipsis est Dominus and the Lorde is present with the multitude as you refuse that one heade of Christes churche because Christ is present with his churche As for the wordes that you note here in the margent of youre boke multitudo sanctorum and populus domini papae as though you coulde thereby make some shewe that this place might be applyed to Chanon Chore Deane Dathan and his felowes it deserueth to be rather laughed at then answered seing that bothe it is a manifeste lye wherewith you sclaundre the cleargye who neuer called them selues the holy people of the greate Lorde of Rome as you here feine and also it is well knowen that what so euer libertyes and immunities the cleargye had the same were giuen as the faithe encreased by Emperours and kinges them selues and therefore they were moste far from the maner of reasoning vsed by these schismatikes Nowe whereas M. Dorman alleageth the Apologie as thus reasoning Nowell B. 25. that the churche hathe no neede of anie other ruler because Christ is with it truth it is if M. Dormā doe meane one only heade of the vniuersall church For Christe nedeth no suche generall gouernour seing he is bothe present him selfe continually by his spirite as he promised and also for that he hathe in euery peculier countrie and churche his Moises and Aaron that is to saye his feuerall deputies in his steede euerye where here in earth for that no one mortall man can possibly suffice to the gouernaunce of the whole worlde or churche c. If he nede gouernours of euery peculier churche where Dorman he is no lesse present then with the whole why nedeth he not aswell one chiefe heade to gouerne the whole who shall emongest so manie heades diuided into partes euerye one thinking his opinion to be best strike the stroke and preserue vnitie If yowe saie God maie so preserue euerie bishop that he fall not into heresie you put god to worke daily mo miracles then he doth to preserue the chiefe bisshop of all whiche yet you stagger to graunte as a thinge impossible The wordes folowing in youre Apologie that no one mortall man can suffice to the gouernement of the whole fo 96. a. 3. worlde or church I of my accustomed sinceritie omitted yow saye And what haue you gotten by it nowe you haue alleaged it youre selfe Verilie this that you will make all men vnderstande that god is able with you to doe no more then you list to giue him leaue but of this I haue entreated before sufficiently You saye that you are far from rebelling Nowell against youre naturall soueraigne and other gods ministers appointed to gouerne you c. But how farre M. Nowell I Dorman praie you Who made the boke of succession at home Who sounded the two traiterouse blastes against the mōstrouse regiment of women their Quene being a woman From whence were they blowen but from the lake of Gehenna Who grudgeth against the princes ordinaunce in matters indifferent and of small importance no greater then of a square cap Who made warre against their prince in Scotland Who set all Fraunce in an vprore against their king Who but that vnhappy vermine the protestants That which foloweth fol. 96. b. and 97. a. b. is answered before That the waye to ouerthrow Fol. 68. vsque ad fol. 106. heresies is not by the only scripture The 27. chapiter THIS matter hath bene sufficiently handled before in the 21. chapitre And allthough in me it be a greate faulte and highly laide to my charge to alleage thrise one place of scripture yet muste yowe good readers beare withe M. Nowell if he alleage his absurde and wicked assertions more then six times thrise and maie not in any wise twite him with the prouerbe Crambe his that to muche of one thing is naught yea allthough he neuer proue anie of them once But maie yowe not be ashamed M. Nowell so vniustly to M. Nowell repre hending other men for vnreuerent speaking of the scripture speaketh of all other most vnreuerētly him selfe charge Pighius and Hosius with vnreuerent speaking of the scripture when youre selfe in this place applie your prophane prouer be to signifie that to muche of scripture maie be nought that anie place thereof maie so often be alleaged that it shoulde become vnsauory By what auctoritie claime yow I praie yowe tell vs suche libertie that yowe maie speake of the scriptures that whiche is vnlaufull and plaine blasphemie and other maie not vse so muche as similitudes or comparisons betwene the scriptures and other prophane thinges Why is it laufull for yow so oftentimes to repeate these heathenishe wordes that it is impossible for one man assisted by gods grace for otherwise we affirme it not to gouerne the whole churche of Christe that we be like to the Phariseis and high priestes of the Iues you to Christe and his apostles that there ought no more to be one chiefe heade to gouerne the churche then one emperour to gouerne the whole worlde that the pope can not be iudge in his owne cause as though goddes cause were his owne priuate cause with suche like absurdities a nombre mo and maie not be laufull for me to alleage thrise the holie scripture of God to proue three seuerall pointes Firste that it coulde not be likely that God prouiding for his chosen The place of Deuter. alleaged by me thrise to three seuerall purposes people the Iues a chiefe and heade gouernour to ende and determine all their controuersies woulde not for his churche whiche he loueth more tendrely where he knewe shoulde be greater nede doe the like nexte to answere thereby youre foolishe reason Christe is heade of his churche and present allwaies withe it therefore there nedeth no other By which reason I saide that God shoulde haue prouided for the Iues no chiefe
for him selfe When this question off the blessed sacrament shall be the principall matter betwene yow and me yow shall haue a cause why these wordes I am the true vine proue not so well a transsubstantiation as the other This is my body doe In the meane season where as yowe aske what a rule yowe shoulde haue had if Christe B. 1. had saide likewise This is my true and verie bodie as he saide I am a true or verie vine trulie M. Nowell no highlier should the matter haue bene taken then it is For to vs Christian men it is inough that Christe hathe once saide it is his bodie We woulde beleue an honest man vpon his worde if he shoulde tell his name and saie that he were suche a one and neuer put him to saie that he were trulie suche a one I see no cause but yowe might if it pleased yowe haue as good an opinion of Christ Who notwithstanding to stop the mouthes of suche Capernaites as yow are hathe added also the worde truly saing For my fleshe is truly or verilie meate and my bloude is verily drinke The whiche wordes Ioan. 6. Hilarius expounding saieth that there is no place left to doubte Lib. 8. de Trinit of the truthe of the fleshe and bloude of Christe seing that bothe by oure Lordes owne wordes and oure faith it is trulie fleshe and trulie bloude I saide that if because the Apostle or Christe him selfe vseth a figure in one place we must thinke that in all other he neuer spake otherwise by that abhominable doctrine there were no let if a man woulde be so wicked to holde that Christe were not the true and naturall sonne of God but by adoption onelye and bring for the maintenaunce of that wicked heresie that texte dedit eis potestatem filios dei Ioan. 1. fieri He gaue them power to be made the sonnes of God An obiection left vnanswered by M. Nowell To this yow answere nothing at all I trust it be not yow knowe the rule since yowe were prolocutor in the conuocation because qui tacet consentire videtur he that holdeth his peace semeth to consent Charitie woulde rather interprete your silence to procede of lacke of iust matter to answere and so doe I allthough yowe deale not allwaies so frindely with me What so euer I haue saide here of the controuersie of the B. 9. sacrament out of place leauing my purposed matter vnproued is yow saie verye fonde What so euer I haue saide here of the sacrament hath bene vttred vpon the occasion of Luther and Caluins disagrement who because they can not be reconciled by the scriptures that blocke laied by you in the waie that the scripture onely is the sufficient iudge to ende all controuersies rising vpon the doubtefull meaning of the lettre is remoued and so my purposed matter proued that there must be an other iudge then the scripture What haue you nowe wonne to shewe you that I am not ashamed of mine owne phrase As before I proued that the Arrians Lutherās and Caluinistes coulde by no meanes by onelie scripture be ouerthrowen so nowe I proued the same by the Anabaptistes alleaging in like maner suche places of scripture as they bring for their defence And as you answered before nothing to the obiections of the Arrians Lutherans and Caluinistes so doe you here passe ouer in silence the answere to the Anabaptistes and purge your selfe and youre companions that yow be no Arrians no Anabaptistes withe fo 103. a. 8 M. Nowell leaueth vnāswered that to whiche he should answere and answereth that that nedeth no answere Nowell the which Heresies you were neuer charged by me You take holde also of those wordes of mine where I saie that the catholikes doe represse and ouerthrowe the brutishe opinions of the Anabaptistes To the which being but wordes incidently cast in I marueile how anie man reading youre boke can forbeare laughing to heare you slipping from the principall point make this solemne answere to that which neded none at all VVe answere that it is moste certeine and well knowen to the worlde that oure men haue saide and written more against them then euer did the papists VVherefore we be therein as in all other thinges in deede the Catholikes and not they What so euer you haue written M. Nowel against them Dorman you are notable by the scripture alone to ouerthrow them whiche is the thing that being denied you ought to haue proued But by the waye note I praie the that art the learned reader a clerckly conclusion of M. Nowelles whereby he A clerckly cōclusiō made by M. Nowell proueth his companions to be the Catholikes and not vs because they haue saide and written more against the Anabaptistes then we haue done Is not this trowe you a notable argument to proue that no man is a catholike but he that hath spoken and written against heretikes nor he neither if an other haue saide and written more then he You saie that the mention that I made of the Swenckfeldians b. 8. Arrians and Anabaptistes was alltogether impertinent to my purpose I haue proued the contrarie before nowe let the learned reader iudge thereof You charge me with declaiming against the scriptures and worde of God That is a lye You call it a seely similitude and cruell likelihode A lye 79. Nowell b. 12. that I make betwene the Iuishe high prieste and the pope I maruell not that you so call it for it cutteth the throate of all youre heresies You vse often and gladly I perceiue this worde Iuishe high prieste as though you woulde therby insinuat to the simple and vnlearned that my example were naught as taken from the Iewes the very name of whome to those that haue more zeale then knowledge yow knowe to be odiouse and therfore against that meaning I warne the vnlearned that the Iewes that were then whereof this Iuishe prieste was heade were goddes church and chosen people You cal the pope and papistes heretikes and their doctrine heresies You acknowledge him not to be the supreme heade or gouernour ouer all the churche As long as you be not able to proue it it maketh no matter youre tongue is not autentike Nowe where M. Dorman woulde proue the conference of Nowell fol. 104. a. 1. scriptures a vaine or euill thing because the Arrians and Anabaptistes vsed it and vs to be heretikes as they be because we vse the same groundes to witte conferring of scriptures together he might as well reiect all alleaging of scripture because the Diuell vsed it and conclude that we be of the diuell because we vse the same groūdes that he doth that is to say the alleaging of the scriptures Yea and he maye by the same reason ▪ finde faulte withe Christe oure Sauiour and his holy apostles who doe so muche vse the same alleaging of scriptures I go not about to proue the conference of scriptures a
all thinges for this / that they that call her grace supreme gouernour in all thinges and causes aswell ecclesiasticall as temporall / The protestantes doinges sclaunderouse to the Quene and the realme are noted / not at home only but abroade also in strange countries / moste lewdely to abuse the same / while euen in a matter of no greater importance then is the wearing of a square cappe / they refuse the ordre of the supreme gouernour in all thinges and causes as in wordes they call her ecclesiasticall and temporall while for the signe of our redemption the crosse whiche her maiestie kepeth moste reuetently in her chappell / she is in her owne realme by a booke printed and set saithe by a meane and base subiect / inalapertly comptrolled â–ª What maye foraigne princes thinke of suche a contâ—â—mely / if as her graces affection towardes the crosse is vnknowen to none / so the onlye knowledge of the title of suche an infamouse libell rather then a booke / be brought to the eares of anie of them But what maie they saye / if vnderstanding the tongue / Calshil in â—pist ad Martialem pag. 7. they shoulde read â–ª within foure leaues of the beginning As for hir priuate doinges neither are they to be drawen as a president for all nor any ought to crepe in to the princes bosome of euery facte to iudge an affection What could they gather herof but that the princes honour were vilanously touched / as though in religion which is but one and therfore not subiecte to change / she did vse one religion her selfe / and deliuer an other to her subiectes as though which is worse she kepte for hir owne priuate vse the bad / and gaue to the rest the better yea which is yeat worst of all as though she shoulde pretende one thing outewardly / and be of an other affection inwardly / which coulde not be perceiued but by creeping into hir bosome But if he that setteth forwarde so vnhappely saile the rest of his course withe no better fortune / he shoulde in all wise iudgement haue done more wisely / if he had continued stil in the quiet hauen at the ancre wherat once he laye / then he hathe done by committing him selfe to the mercye of the windes waues of these troubelouse seas of controuersies / wherein no skilfuller pilote then he sheweth him selfe to be / maye easely make a foolishe shipwreke / and be cast awaye These be the sclaunderouse persons good Readers / whom M. Nowell if he haue that regarde to the honour of our souereigne ladye the Quene / his dutie to oure countrye lawes thereof / that he pretendeth will shortly haue in the chase / and let me and suche as I am alone / who protest neuer to desire to liue houre longre / then we shall be contented to liue like true subiectes vnder the humble obedience of oure gratiouse souereigne The prince goddes image in earthe / whome we acknowledge to be the image of God in earthe / in all ciuile and politike gouernement But nowe here I praie yowe beholde / how M. Nowell that maketh these greate bragges / of repelling withe earnestnesse suche reproches as I haue attempted he saieth to blemishe my prince lawes and countrie withall quitteth hym selfe of his promise Doth he not euen then when he commeth to that article where these surmised reproches shoulde be / flee backe and giue ouer in the plaine fielde Is not this repelling withe earnestnesse a plaine mockery to be laughed at / when about the matter that made him he saieth to wright so carefully and diligently / of 124. leaues / he bestoweth not fully three when he endeth there / without entring in to the article / where he shoulde rather haue begonne The thirde reason that hathe moued M. Nowell to wright the more largely against me / he expresseth in these wordes because the simple vnlearned readers haue often best liking in bookes more boldely then learnedly written and are moste in daunger to credite most lewde and sclaunderouse lyes I therfore haue in answering more at large applied my selfe to such as be of meane vnderstanding to whome the guilefull dealinges of the papistes can not with breuitie be made manifest These be M. Nowelles causes for his excuse why in so many wordes he hath vttred so little matter But the truthe is / when after longe streining of curtosy emongest the brethren which of them shoulde answere my booke / they all agreed / first in this / that something muste nedes be saide therto / and finally that M. Nowell of all other shoulde take the matter in hande / as he that for his rare gift of railing were best able to feede the humour of suche simple and vnlearned / as here him selfe saieth / haue often best lyking in bookes more boldly then learnedly written then he deepely considering / that the greatest vauntage that he coulde finde against me / muste be by making men beleue / that the places of S. Cyprian S. Hierome and suche like / brought for the confirmation of that first proposition of myne / That there must be one head in earth to gouerne christes churche were alleaged directly for the B. of Romes supremacy / to the whiche being conteined withein the compasse of 15. leaues of my booke / if he shoulde but answere after like proportion / his answere were The true cause of M. Nowel les so large writing like to be counted but a twopeny booke / and he for no better then a three-halfepeny doctour his high wisdome in respecte of these considerations founde it best / to dilate so that little stuffe that he had to vtter / that he might seme to haue made a iust volume / and to haue answered therein the whole For this respecte / because to haue intituled his booke A Reproufe written by Alexander Nowell of a piece of a booke c. VVhy he termed his boke a Reproufe had bene to greate a blemishe to his worship / and call it a confutation or an answere to my whole booke by any meanes he coulde not / he deuised to terme it a Reproufe of my booke / a worde as he thought suche / as in reprouing only 15. leaues he might seme to be able to iustifie / and which shoulde sounde in the eares of the vnlearned not accustomed to looke so narowly in to the nature of wordes asmuche as a confutation of the whole For this cause / to pacifie the learneder sorte whome he sawe he shoulde not be able by suche a tricke of ligier de main so easily to deceiue / and who woulde he knewe well not staye at the title / but take a diligent viewe of the contentes of the whole / he ransacking all the corners of his iugglers boxe / brought furthe at the lengthe a tricke of deceptio visus whereby he woulde make them beleue as you haue heard that M. Doctour Hardinges booke
of heresies and schismes when men shoulde departe from the obedience of the pope the chiefe bishop of all other and therefore neither without cause or guilefully to deceiue the simple as yow vncharitably surmise Which youre selfe also perceiued verie well and therefore by the figure called extenuatio you terme this reason of mine a simple collection after this maner Now if he thinke yeat that he might make suche a simple collection Nowell fol. 5. a. 31. of S. Cyprian and S. Basile his wordes as this that as the beginning of heresies in their time was the contempte of the inferiours towardes their owne bishoppes for so Saint Cyprian teacheth so in likewise is the contempte of the Pope as the highest of all bishoppes the beginning of heresies nowe First I denie the argument for that it foloweth not though it be euill for the inferiour to disobey his owne bishop to whose obedience in all godlines he is bounden therefore it is euill for a straungier not to obey a straunge forraine vsurper to whome he oweth no dutie of obedience Againe I saie though it be the beginning of heresie to disobey Cyprian Rogatian yea or Cornelius being godly or catholike bishoppes yeat is it not likewise the beginning of heresies to disobeye any the late Popes of Rome who were not only no godly bishoppes as were Cyprian Rogatian and Cornelius but bothe moste wicked and in deede no bishoppes att all but false vsurpers of wordly tirannie Whome for the subiectes of an other Christian and laufull soueraigne to obeye and not to disobey is the beginning of heresies treasons and other mischiefes This is my simple collection you saie I acknowledge it Dâ—â—man for mine as simple as it is and to youre double answere thereto replye as foloweth First to the first that it is moste false that you laye for a grounded truthe that the bishop of Rome is a forraine vsurper as when I so gathered in my introduction I minded to proue in the handling of the first principall article of the popes auctoritie and so sence haue done Whereof seing youre selfe are not ignorant you haue delt not simply but doubly labouring to deceiue the simple by defacing as you thougth my preface as vnskilfully written for that I haue there only sayde and not proued that the pope is the chiefe heade of Christes churche in earthe whereas that I referred as by good ordre of writing the learned knowe I ought to the first article of the popes supremacie To the reasons and proufes in which place brought as in all youre answere you neuer come neare but cauill and wrangle against my Introduction whiche showeth the cause of schismes to be disobedience against pastours and bishops so if they be applied to this place as they must then shall it appeare how falsely you saye that the wordes of S. Cyprian were alleaged without all cause But because the whole force of this first answere of youres to proue my argument naught standeth in this that the bishop of Rome being a forriner no suche reason can be made from S. Cyprian and S. Basile his wordes I will here ouer and aboue that which I haue allreadie saide in the handling of this article in his propre place presently proue The pope taken for no foriner by S. Cyprian and S. Basile by S. Cyprian and S. Basile bothe that he was taken by them for no foriner neither in Africa Fraunce Spaine neither yeat in the Easte churche of the whiche S. Basile was For Africa first was the B. of Rome thinke yow taken Afrike there by S. Cyprian to be a forraine vsurpar whose churche he called ecclesiae catholicae radicem matricem the roote Lib. 4. epist 8. and mother churche of the catholike churche If the churche of Rome be the roote and mother to all other churches then if the mother be aboue the children if the mother and roote be no foriners to the children and branches of the tree it will folowe verie wel first that the churche of Rome as it is no foriner to the churches of Africa and to the other churches through out the worlde but aboue them all that so the bishop of the same is aboue the B. of Carthage and all other bishoppes and no foriner or vsurper And as carnall children how farre so euer they lyue from their naturall parentes cease not therfore to be their children nor their saide parentes become therby forriners euen so the bishop of Rome who gouerneth that churche that is mother to all other ceasseth not to be a father to his children dwell they neuer so farre of Was the B. of Rome reputed a straunger to the bishoppes of Africa Lib. 4. epist 8. who vsed to sende their legates to him to pacifie matters and to bring knowledge of the truthe Whose communion to holde S. Cyprian calleth in this epistle the firme holding and allowing of the vnitie and charitie of the catholike churche When all the African bishoppes assembled together in councel directed their lettres to the bishop Apud August epi â–ª 90. of Rome praying him to confirme their doings by the auctoritie of the Apostolicall See pro tuenda salute multorum quorundam peruersitate corrigenda for the preseruation of the healthe of manie and the amendement of the frowardenes of diuerse toke they him thinke yow for a forriner If S. Cyprian had had of the See of Rome that opinioÌ„ that you would gladlie persuade men he had woulde he thinke we haue saide of those schismatikes that sailed oute off Africa to Rome to complaine vpon him to Cornelius Post ista adhuc insuper c. Beside all this they haue bene so Lib. 1. Epist 3. bolde hauing appointed to them by the heretikes a false bishop to saile euen to Peters chaire and the principal churche from whence priestly vnitie sprang and to carie from schismatikes and prophane men lettres not considering that the Romaines are they whose faithe by the Apostles mouthe is praised and to whome false faithe can haue no accesse Woulde he haue saide Romam cum mendaciorum suorum merce nauigarunt quasi veritas post eos nauigare non posset quae mendaces linguas rei certae probatione conuinceret They are sailed to Rome with their marchandise of lies as though truthe coulde not saile after them able to conuince their lieng tongues by suer and vndoubted proufe Naye he shoulde and woulde you maie be suer had he bene of youre minde haue saide Let them go on goddes name what care I for the bishop of Rome Shall I be so foolishe to folowe them to debate the matter before him who is a plaine forriner to vs and hathe nothing to doe therein For thus woulde yow I dare saie at this daye answere if one shoulde go to Rome and complayne of you But nowe considering that saint Cyprian saied not thus but contrariewise made his account to stande with them and trie the matter before the bishop of
nombre of priestes there ought to be one chiefe ruler chosen as though only Petre had bene a bishop and the other apostles pore priestes and no more Where is nowe the equalitie that you are wont to obiect to vs of the Apostles with Petre Who maketh the Apostles more inferiour to Peter you or we We saie the Apostles all of them were bishoppes in one place or other you make youre count that they were only inferiour priestes Now being all of them bishoppes and Peter by youre confession their heade Who seeth not that the ordre planted by Christe in his church is that there be one bishop for the pacifieng of schismes ouer the rest Againe if 12. persones so well instructed by the spirite of God as the Apostles were had a heade appointed ouer them for remedie against schismes what reason leadeth yow to thinke that emongest so manye â—ades as be in the vniuersall churche gouernours of particuler churches not so priuileaged with grace there maye not be the like yea greater cause to feare schismes and so consequently that there ought not to be the same remedie that is to saye one heade So that if you counte youre selfe hurt when it is proued that there ought to be one chiefe heade of Christes churche you are by graunting of this prerogatiue to S. Peter aboue the rest of the Apostles verie daungerously hurte Yea but you were prouided for all suche after clappes before I doubte not Other wise so circumspect a man as you are woulde neuer haue yealded so farre And therfore you adde And if M. Dorman vpon this graunte woulde inferre suche a Nowell supremacie of one ouer the rest of the Apostles as the pope claimeth ouer the churche S. Paule reprouing Peter more sharpely Galat. 2. to his face then is laufull nowe for any bishop to deale with the pope dothe proue that Peter had no suche supremacy One thing I must here tell you by the waie M. Nowell Dorman that in debating this matter of the auctoritie of S. Peter aboue the rest of the Apostles except you forsake S. Hierome you must forgo this example of S. Paule his reprouing of S. Peter which S. Hierome holdeth against S. Austen how truly I dispute not in this place to haue bene but a made matter betwene them that Paule shoulde reprehende and Peter suffer him selfe to be reprehendid for vsing the legall ceremonies as appeareth in the epistles written to and fro betwene them And therfore if you will be tried by S. Hierome he shoulde rather holde with this supremacie as the man who if he erred in striuing with S. Austen about this reprehending of Peter erred onely because he thought it a thing vnsemely and vnlikely that S. Paule woulde so reprehende the prince of the Apostles Which was he saieth the cause why Origen and other to stoppe the mouthe of Porphirius the heretike who laied to S. Paules charge that he was ouerbolde to reprehende Peter the chiefe of the Apostles expounded this place as he did But leauing S. Hierome and graunting that Peter was truly and in deede reprehended by S. Paule let vs examine whether suche a supremacie as is here spoken of maie not by the iudgement of the learned fathers of Christes churche stande wel inough for all this reprouing of S. Peter vsed by S. Paule I will emongest other alleage to this purpose two only S. Cyprian and S. Austen Epist ad Quintum The wordes S. Cyprian are these Naâ— nec Petrus quem primum dominus elegit super quem aedificauit ecclesiam suam c. For neither Pure whome oure lorde chose to be the chiefe and vpon whome he builded his church when he contended after with Paule about circuÌ„cision reuenged him selfe or chalenged anie thing insolently or arrogaÌ„tly in saing that he had the primacy and that he ought rather to be obeied of those that were nouices and came after Thus farre S. Cyprian With whome agreeth S. Austen as he that alleageth this verie place to proue that S. Cyprian to whose auctoritie the Donatistes leaned Lib. 2. de baptis contra Donatist ea for the baptising againe of suche as were Christened by heretikes woulde easely suffer him selfe for his humilitie being but one bishop or the doinges of his owne prouince either to be corrected by the statutes of the whole churche seing that he praised S. Peter in whome was the primacie of the Apostles for the same vertue of humilitie in suffering him selfe to be reproued of S. Paule Thus it appeareth that S. Paules resisting of S. Peter was no derogatioÌ„ to S. Peters auctoritie as the which by the confessioÌ„ of both these learned fathers remained saufe and whole notwithstanding the reprehension of S. Paule and withall that you and your fellowes M. Nowell who vse so often to the derogation of S. Peters auctoritie to cite this place of the epistle Galat. 2. to the Galathians doe shamefully abuse the same with no small iniurie to the blessed apostles bothe But yeat you fare that I haue saide nothing all this while to this that Peters supremacie was no suche as is the popes whome no man may blame what so euer he doe Yes sir the pope maie be blamed Neither doe the texte nor the glose by you here alleaged saye the contrarie And so haue diuerse good men freelie reprehended diuerse popes S. Bernard a moÌ„ke reprehended Eugenius the third more sharpely iwisse as youre selues can full well tel and therfore make much of him in that respect then euer did S. Paule reproue S. Petre. Paulus 4. was admonished by lettres writteÌ„ by one in Rome of the vnhonest behauiour of his nephues the two Caraffas He toke the aduertisemeÌ„t in good parte and banished them the courte immediatly What should I remembre the lettres written by Petrus a So to a frier also to Pius the pope that nowe is wherin he admonished him freely to take ordre that bishoppes and other inferiour pastours might be compelled Dat. Tridenti 17. Aprilis Anno Do. 1563. Nowell fol. 44. b. 24. to kepe resideÌ„ce with their charges and threatened to him vtter daÌ„nation in the iudgemeÌ„t of God vnlesse he did It foloweth not you saye that one being chosen to beruler emongest twelue that therefore one maie be also chosen to be ruler ouer all the cleargie of the worlde No more do the it that because there was one chosen of euerye one churche or diocesse to rule the reste that therefore there shoulde be one chosen to rule all bishoppes of all diocesses namely at Rome and the saide ruler to be called pope or heade of the vniuersall churche The first answere touching that one heade emongest Dorman Institut li. 4. cap. 6. Sect. 8. fol. 53. a. b the Apostles you learned of youre Maister Caluin against whome I haue proued that the consequent holdeth verye well in my first booke The argument I haue showed oftentimes howe it holdeth and last of all in the
leane vnto so notable a lie The first exception against this testimonie of Leo is this Nowell b. 13. No man maie be witnesse in his owne cause nor iudge Therefore Leo his testimonie brought furthe for the preeminence of his own See is not to be admitted c. This exception of youres yow proue by reason by scripture by lawe First to answere youre reason if reason theire maie be in Dorman anie so vncharitable a iudgement I saie it is false that the holiest and best men be lightly partiall in their owne matters He is neither holie nor good much lesse to be accounted amongest the holiest and best that for the bettring off his owne cause will swarue from the truthe Youre testimonie alleaged out of the ghospell is not to the purpose Ioan. 5. For that place proueth not that allwaies the testimonie that a man giueth of himselfe is false but that when a man hath to doe with aduersaries that will not otherwise beleue him as the Phariseis woulde not Christ then he must vse the testimonie of other theÌ„ him selfe Which as Leo in such case you maie be suer did so wheÌ„ the matter was so farre froÌ„ being by anie aduersarie gainesaide that he made his commission B. 25. to the bishop of Thessalonica to be in his steade thorough out Grecia and other countries adioning as he did here what nede had he there to bring anie proufes where there was at all no doubte If yow will saie that I defending the auctoritie of the pope bring Leo against yow which are the aduersaries and that therefore nowe becawse you are against Christes vicair as the Phariseis were against Christe him selfe for so doe yow confesse that you M. Nowell confesseth him selfe to reason against Leo as the phariseis dyd against Christ reason as they did although perhappes yow woulde haue bene angrie with an other that should haue saide so much so I must bring other witnesse then him except I will take the foile To that I answere that you come nowe to late with that exception if it had no other faulte For to answere you who dispute so depely oute of the lawe like one that is not alltogether ignorant therein conclusum est in causa M. Nowell sententia transijt in rem iudicataÌ„ I nede not to expounde these termes vnto you who haue the marow of the glose euen at youre fingres endes For other men who haue not atteined to such knowledge I saie that seing in Leo his time when he appointed in this epistle the bishop of Thessalonica in his steade thorough out Grecia and other countries adioining in an other place the B. of Orleance or some other thorough out Fraunce Hormisdas bishop of Hispalis to be his vicair in Spaine the churches that theÌ„ were and in to whose power the churches of this time succede excepted nothing against these doinges of his in his owne cause as you surmise but suffered theÌ„ to passe till our time the space of 1100. yeares and odde I answere I saye for replie to youre exception that had this testimonie bene being vrged by the rigour of the lawe insufficient that yeat forasmoche as the churche from that time hetherto accepted it for sufficient you come now to late to propose matter against it To make the matter by example more plaine if my auncestor a hundred yeares past in a contention betwene him and some other aboute a piece of landes woulde vpon trust of the vpright conscience of some neare kinsman of his aduersaries admit him to be a witnesse or iudge in the matter whome he might laufullie repell might I if sentence were giuen against my auncestor by the meanes of this iudge or witnesse come after the 100. yeares and excepte against the witnesse or iudge Leo speaketh not nowe M. Nowell he gaue this testimonie that the giueth 1100. yeares agoe The whole churche iustified his persone then to be bothe holie and blessed It is to late and to muche shame also for yow to starte vp now and saye the contrary Thus muche might be saied if it were true that Leo had bene witnesse or iudge in his own cause But the truthe is it is not his cause it is the cause of Christes church and of the whole ordre of priesthod For he pronouÌ„ceth for that seate vnde vnitas sacerdotalis exorta est froÌ„ whence priestly vnitie Cipr. li. 4. Epis 9. â—libi came Neither is Leo in this place more to be reiected for mainteining the supremacie of Peters seate wherein he theÌ„ sate then are the testimonies of S. CipriaÌ„ mainteining the iurisdiction of his owne bishoprike against stubborne rebelles Shall S. Hieromes auctoritie against deacons who woulde be equall with priestes be of no auctoritie because him selfe was a prieste This is not the meaning M. Nowell of the glose as greate a gloser as you be The glose meaneth that in priuate matters that concerne the pope as he is likewise How the glose brought by M. Nowell is to be vnderstande a priuate maÌ„ he shal not him selfe be iudge but in those thinges which concerne the whole bodie of the church and beloÌ„g to the ordre therof and haue no other iudge in earth it taketh not away the power of being witnesse or iudge Pighius you saye alleaged beside the decree of the pope the councell Nowell fol. 46. a. 1 of Vienna lest anie man might estemethe auctoritie the lesse as proceding from the pope in his owne case And by this yow saye it maye seeme that he thinketh the popes onelie testimonie in his owne cause not to be sufficient Pighius was neuer of that minde that you would haue him seme to be When he spake these wordes he touched Dorman the humour and noted the fashion of heretikes and therfore ex abundanti he cast in the mention of the councell of Vienna which I coulde doe also if that woulde helpe the matter and for Vienna giue yow Calcedon for 300. bringe yow 630. bishoppes that called Leo the kepar of Christes vineyard vniuersal bishop with other termes to that effect I forbare to alleage I confesse so muche in one place off a 28. my boke the notable testimonies of Clemens Anacletus Euaristus Alexander Xistus Telesphorus Pius Victor Fabianus and suche other onely because the gainesaiers might happelie haue excepted against them that because they were bishoppes of Rome they were not in that cause which was there owne indifferent witnesses How saye you M. Nowell what gather you hereof That you might laufullye take exception to them as not indifferent If you gather so you wrangle with me My wordes that went before in whiche to iustifie their persones and to shewe how vnlaufullie you shoulde doe it I called them martirs and in the whole course of their liues verie apostles doe witnesse with me the contrarie Yeat saide I that you might doe it de facto not de iure as you maie kill a man in dede but
disposuit Hoc erant vtique caeteri apostoli quod fuit Petrus pari consortio praediti honoris potestatis SED EXORDIVM AB VNITATE PROFICISCITVR VT ECCLESIA VNA MONSTRETVR That is to saye And although oure Lorde gaue like power to all his apostles after his resurrection and saide As my father sent me so sende I you Take you the holie ghost whose synnes you forgiue they are forgiuen whose sinnes you reteine they are reteined yeat to set furthe vnitie he disposed by his auctoritie the same vnitie to beginne of one That were trulie the other apostles also that Peter was indued with like felowship of honour and power but the beginning commeth from vnitie that the churche maie be declared to be one These be the wordes of S. Ciprian faithfullie alleaged and trulie englished I will now repeate the matter euen from the beginning and doe you good Readers to vnderstande the cause why S. Cypriā mentioneth here at all S. Peter and why he entreth in to this comparison betwene him and the other apostles and then after make you priuey to the misteries of M. Nowelles sleight in alleaging this place which he perhappes thinketh that no man knoweth but him selfe and woulde I dare saie be lothe that anie mo shoulde For the first it is to be vnderstande that not manie lines before this place that I haue nowe in hande S. Cyprian complaining of the fraude and subtilite of oure enemie the diuel saith that now that idolles be euerie where destroied he hath bethought him of a newe waie to deceiue mankinde and that is by heresies and schismes to carie them oute of the churche And this commeth to passe saieth he while men come not to the beginning of truthe the heade is not sought out neither the doctrine off oure heauenly maister kepte which thinges if a man woulde considre and examine there woulde nede no long discourse nor greate argumentes The truthe hath made the way to proue the faithe easy Oure Lorde saieth to Peter and vpon this rocke will I builde Math. 18. my churche c. And after his resurrection he saieth to him feede my shepe And although after his resurrection he gaue all his apostles like power and so furthe as I rehersed before After all this he addeth Hanc ecclesiae vnitatem qui non tenet tenere se fidem credit This vnitie of the churche he that holdeth not thinketh he that he holdeth the faith Thus farre S. Cipriā The occasion you see that moued him to mention Peter Note and to compare him with the other apostles was because to auoide schismes we must he said seke out vnitie by the scripture where we shoulde finde that our lord woulde haue his churche to begin of one of him to whome he saide thow art Petre and vpon this rocke will I builde my churche Well then must this be reteined as a truthe in the meane season if we will be within the vnitie of the churche we must kepe vs in that churche which beginning and springing out of one roote or flowing out of one heade founteine for these be also in this place S. Cyprians similitudes is one Now let vs applye the place as it is alleaged by you M. Nowell and see whether you haue vsed S. Cyprian wel or no. You alleage the place to proue such an equalitie emongest th' apostles as that there should be no difference emongest thē and so ouerthrowe all S. Cyprians drift whereby he woulde proue the churche to be one because it taketh beginninge of one For if they be all equall and no difference betwene them then either the churche hathe no one beginning or 12. beginninges If no one beginning howe can the vnitie procede of that which is not if 12 how can the churche be therefore one because as S. Cyprian saieth the vnitie thereof beginneth of one or what beginning call yow that of vnitie that commeth from suche an equall multiplicitie If therefore it be builded vpon one alone as by S. Cyprian it appeareth that it must then is that one aboue the rest Nowe to haue the churche builded vpon one is thus muche to saye that as in a materiall building there is one foundation whereupon all the rest thereof stone tymbre Iron and what so euer elles leaneth so there is in the churche one to whome after Christe the great rocke and firste grounde all the rest that be membres thereof muste as it were leane he him selfe bearing the burdē of the whole building Is not this to be the chiefe stone in Gods building If you shoulde here perhappes wrangle and saye that although it appeare by this place that Christe disposed the beginning of vnitie to procede from one and from Peter toe that yeat here is no mention that the churche shoulde be builded vpon him notwistanding that Christe speaking off Peter saide he woulde builde it vpon that rocke then I remit you for the proufe that S. Cipriāmeaneth so here to those places of his lib. 1. epist 3. epist 8. 12. lib. 4. epist 9. lib. de habit Virgin lib. de bono pati epist ad I ubaianum And last of all to the epistle ad Quintum where he hath in expresse wordes against this equalitie that you dreame of Petrus quem Dominus primum elegit super quē aedificauit ecclesiā suam Peter whome oure Lord chose to be the chiefe and vpon whom he builded his churche This because yow sawe M. Nowell M. Nowell shamefully misuseth S. Cypriā that the verie wordes of S. Cyprian in this place did purport and that alleaged wholly they were to vnequall to serue your fantasied equalitie you first hewed of this knot Et quamuis and although Then you shaued cleane awaye tamen vt vnitatem manifestaret yeat that he might make vnitie manifest vnto this place Hoc erant vtique And yeat that sentence escaped not youre fingers for the last parte thereof Sed exordium but the beginning procedeth from vnitie you pared cleane awaye First the worde Quamuis althoughe is of suche a nature that where so euer it be put it is a messenger that signifieth some diuersitie like to followe as when S. Cyprian saide here although the Apostles were equall that which foloweth yeat he disposed the beginning off vnitie to begin of one argueth in that point some inequalitye Againe the wordes that folowe tamen vt vnitatem manifestaret yeat that he might make vnitie knowen and vt ecclesia vna monstretur that the churche may be shewed to be one These you passed ouer because in them lyeth the very cause why oure Sauioure hath appointed one to be aboue the rest for vnities sake because otherwise it coulde not haue bene chosen but so manie rulers so manie faithes and then where had vnitie bene Beside this the worde ab vno incipientem beginning of one lefte also quite oute ouerthroweth that false proposition of youres that to vnite the churche and make it one in earthe
that translated a. 24. S. Hierom falsefied by adding the word dignitie whiche is not in him the Apologie hath preeminence whiche maketh me to thinke that you borowed this patche of her as liking better to be a folower of her falsehoode then of his simplicitie that translating Caluins institutions translated the place truly Nowe for further answere to this place of S. Hierome it is to be vnderstande that he speaketh here of the custome which was in Rome that at the testimonie off deacons priestes were promoted to ordres The whiche when he saieth he speaketh not of the B. of Rome him selfe and his auctoritie but of the vse and custome of that one citie Nowe is this a thing moste certeine that neither dothe the pope requier nor euer did that all churches shoulde folowe the priuate customes of his churche And therefore saieth S. Hierome that the custome of the citie of Rome is not the custome of the worlde Yea in suche a case if the custome came to be tried the pope him selfe woulde saie Si auctoritas quaeritur orbis est maior vrbe If you seke to mainteine this custome by auctoritie the worlde is greater then is a citie Againe where as you woulde persuade men that all bishoppes be equall because S. Hierome saieth that they be of equall merite and priesthode So were the Apostles toe yeat was one aboue the reste for all that as Hierome him selfe confesseth calling Peter the heade appointed by Christe You haue hearde good readers and I trust in parte vnderstode what shamefull shiftes M. Nowell hathe made howe busilie the man hathe bestirred him selfe with false additions wrong translations hacking hewing and dismembring of sentences howe he hath spared no vilanouse wordes or impudent lies to deface this vertuouse and learned father Leo. To shewe him selfe no changling he concludeth with a conclusion lyke to his premisses that he thinketh that fier and water are not of a more contrarie nature then are S. Nowell a. 31. b. 13. Cyprian and S. Hierome contrarie to this epistle alleaged as Leo the popes epistle beside S. Augustine and 200. and mo bishoppes agreing with them against this Leo. He repeteth againe his exceptions that Leo in his owne cause is to be suspected that it is to be doubted whether it be Leo his epistle in dede or an others vnder his name that the wordes of his testimonie be eather manifestly falsefied or at the least in diuerse copies not onelye diuerse but cleane contrarie And here his tendre harte coulde not suffer him anie longer to refreine him selfe but needes he fol. 52. a. 2. must burst oute and lament as it were the case off the pope and poperie that is brought nowe to suche miserie as that being forsaken of all men almoste learned and graue it coulde finde no other patrones but suche as I am Allthoughe for that he confesseth that all suche as are godly and loue the truthe haue cause to thanke almightie God Howe contrarie Leo is to S. Cyprian and S. Hierome Dorman let the learned iudge how S. Augustine and the other bisshoppes make for you the next chapitre because it dependeth vpon the historie of Zozimus shall make euident To the being witnes in his owne cawse to the doubte of the worcke whether it be Leo his or no hathe bene answered before Allthough to certifie yow further in the last point albeit reason woulde yow shoulde haue showed some better cause of youre doubte then yow haue lest by that meanes euerie auctoritie brought against yow maie be called in to controuersie if it please yow to doubte therof I doe note to yow here in the margent other places out of the same Sermon 1. 2. 3. In die Aniuers assumpt suae ad Pontificat Leo his worckes no epistles but certeine sermons of his where yow shall finde that Peter into whose place he saieth that he vnworthily succeded had the same right ouer the vniuersall churche that here in this epistle he chalengeth For the wordes that they be not falsified in this epistle I alleaged before a copie printed at Coleine which readeth as I doe But then you saie that the wordes be cleane contrarie and so that it is impossible that bothe shoulde be true Nowell B. 22. I am content M. Nowell to yow that yow take the Dorman place of Leo how yow will and reade either as some copies haue without non or as other haue with non and when yow haue done all shall come to one sense For allthough non being but a little sillable be notwithstanding of greate importaunce generallie yeat here by reason of the worde ordo which is ambiguouse and signifieth either a corporation and bodie as we vse to saie the honorable knightes off the ordre or proportiō in aray as when the herauld telleth euerie Lord what ordre he shall kepe in their solēne processions or other assemblies where this word is taken in an other significatiō and also of the word dignitas which being in like manner ambiguouse signifieth either the dignitie of the state of bishoppes or superioritie in that state it maketh no diuersitie at all When we reade thus Quibus etsi dignitas non sit communisest tamen ordo generalis To whome all though there be not one dignitie common yeat is there one ordre generall we vnderstande by this worde order the whole order of bishoppes emongest whome allthough there be diuersitie of dignities yeat because bishoppes archebishoppes primates patriarches popes be all bishoppes we saie that that order of being bishop is common to them all Likewise in this reading we take dignitas for superioritie in that ordre As contrariewise in the other reading Quibus etsi dignitas sit communis non est tamen ordo generalis we vnderstand that dignitas dothe signifie that whiche ordo did before and ordo signifieth that which dignitas did that is superioritie and preeminence in that vocation We were not blinde you see M. Nowell and I trust will beare vs witnes I thinke we sawe more then yow woulde we shoulde haue done As for my parte by whose taking this cawse in hande yow iudge that the matter shoulde be brought to greate extremitie I confesse God is my witnes that had I knowen that he had minded to haue written therein who dyd that I thinke I shoulde neuer haue taken pen in hande to haue written nor when I had done and ended my laboure and knewe howe muche how learnedlye had bene sayde for the defence thereof should euer haue suffered the same to goe in to the knowleadge off men had I not folowed the iudgement off my betters therein To which good meaning of myne at the firste and readie obedience to my superiours at the last seing that it hath pleased almightie God to giue suche successe as that M. Nowell hauing vttred all his eloquence and spent all his other store in awnswering of 143. leaues to onelye 15. hathe not yeat answered trulye
The wordes I alleaged before it shall here suffise to note the places There was neuer yeat suche a gouernour as coulde so rule his charge were it of anye compasse that there were not manye thinges amisse therein The churche off Rome hathe bene so gouerned that it was neuer hetherto steined with heresies whiche seing none of the other apostolicall seates can saye bothe must yow be inforced to acknowledge Gods mightye prouidence in preseruing the same and to graunte withall that if that ordre to haue one generall heade ouer the whole churche were nowe to begin and the heade to be chosen that there were none to be preferred before the bishop of that See Because yow make mention of S. Paule who thinketh him vnmete to haue 1. Timoth. 3. the charge of one churche that can not gouerne well his owne house you put me in remembraunce that S. Ambrose expounding the same place calleth Damasus the pope the ruler of the whole churche And so there is one witnesse more by youre good occasion giuen to proue that this maner of heade was not vnknowen in the primitiue churche and that therefore you falselye slaundered the late popes and so haue encreased the nombre of youre lyes Two lies 40. with two mo If no man maye haue vnder his gouernaunce greater compasse then that he can tell if he be required the names off the cities townes villages hamlettes c. that he is king or Lorde ouer and in what parte of his realme they stande yow will with youre wise diuinitie bring the worlde to a good passe shortlye It is not necessarie that the Frenche kinge the Kinge of Spaine the Quene oure maistres or anye other Prince doe knowe the names of all the partes that they be chiefe gouernours of It suffiseth that their inferiour officiers doe and that if there arise anie suche controuersie as they be not able to ordre and determine they maye then aduertise the chiefe gouernour off all who maye by his greater power redresse the same Euen so is it in the Pope M. Nowell who hathe the ouersight of the whole churche not to gouerne all the membres thereof hym selfe by him selfe but by the helpe of his brethren who are called into parte of that charge with him That Zozimus the bishoppe of Rome corrupted not the canons off the Nicene councell The 16. Chapitre BECAVSE yow shall not suppose M. Nowell that I answere here to youre by talke of Zozimus as forced by necessitie but onelye as I tolde you before for this that allthough it be not pertinent to the matter it is yeat a foule fol. 46. b. 3. sclaunder to that blessed bishop and brought commonlye by youre maisters to bring into hatred the See of Rome I will this tell you before hande that yow are lyke to haue as litle honestye by the proposing of this exception in forme of lawe against my witnes as you had worshippe when being prolocutour in the conuocation house yow woulde as it is reported haue first passed by the house that they shoulde all be taken for heretikes that woulde not agree to a lawe that shoulde be afterwarde made And when yow thought to conclude being earnest to haue youre wise deuise take place vpon the silence that then was in the house euerye man being astonied at so foolishe a demaunde by this maxime in the lawe Qui tacet consentire videtur he that holdeth his peace semeth to consent where a wise man and a greate lawier telling you that in making of lawes the consent must be expresse and not presumed you sate downe in youre place as wise as before you stode vp If here therefore happening vpon the rule Qui semel est malus semper praesumitur malus He that is once euill is euer presumed naught yow thought that if you were able to proue Zozimus a falsefier yow shoulde discredite also Leo because he was a pope as well as the other you were surelie greatelye deceaued For this rule is personall M. Nowell and not locall Otherwise because it is in anye courte in Englande a good exception against his testimonie that seruing sometimes in youre churche of Powles and being nowe one of youre chiefe preachers stale away the chalice a man might take the same exception to anye other honest man of the same church But this being I suppose well inough knowē how childish and vnsauorie a kinde of proufe howe farre from the purpose this that you bring of Zozimus is let vs examine howe true it is that he falsefied the canons of the councell of Nice How proue yow this to be true M. Nowell I praye yow I proue it saie yow not by two onelie but by 217. witnesses Nowell fo 46. b. 23 the whole councell of Afrike emongest whome was S. Austen Orosius Prosper with manie other bishoppes notable in learning and vertue Well I am content to winke at yow M. Nowell as cruell Dorman M. Nowell reiecting Leo as witnes in his owne cause alleageth the Africanes in their own cause Nowell fo 47. a. 1. as yow were with me for bringing the testimonie of Leo in his owne cawse and I will be ignorant that this was the Africanes cause or that they were Africane bishoppes that gaue this sentence that you speake of But what be the wordes I praie yow that they vse against Zozimus Doe they call him expresselye a corrupter and a falsifier They all as in their epistle to Celestine one of the successours of this Zozimus appeareth testifie that there was no suche matter for the B. of Romes superioritie as was by pope Zozimus alleaged neither in their vsuall copies of the Nicene councell neither in the authenticall examples which were sent them by Cirill patriarke of Alexandria and by Atticus patriarke of Constantinople which authenticalles agreing with their owne copies and all other copies euerie where had no suche thing as Zozimus alleaged but had the cleane contrarie for that the 6. and 7. decree off the saide Nicene councell make the patriarkes of Alexandria Antiochia and Hierusalem equall with the B. of Rome If this be all M. Nowell then are yow a corrupter and Dorman a falsifier of the sainges of 217. bishoppes The mo they be 217. bishoppes sclaundred by M. Nowell in nombre the greater in vertue and learning the more is youre faulte to be detested of all men They saide that they had receiued from Cyrillus and from Atticus certeine copies of the Nicene councell in the which they coulde finde no suche thing as the pope claimed What thereof M. Nowell was then the copie that Zozimus had at Rome falsified Or if it were falsified must it nedes be by and by falsified by Zozimus Might he not alleage it as he founde it left by his predecessours Seing these learned fathers neuer vsed suche wordes but on the contrarie parte called him in their lettres to Bonifacius after his deathe beatae memoriae Venerabilis memoriae of blessed remembraunce of
Religion was considered Dorman two wayes either as it perteineth to faithe or to maners In the first sense there was neuer man nor woman yeat that woulde otherwise haue answered you not if yow had met ten thousande one after an other but that they were all Christians That they did customably otherwise answere it was in this latter sense as taking those that asked them the question to meane of their rule and profession of life not of their faithe whereof they had cause to thinke that the demaunders of suche questions being Christians were not ignorant Of this there can be no better proufe then that if in Englande when religiouse men were there of Fūladres Spaine Italy or any place where they now be a knowen Iue or infidell shoulde aske any religiouse man or woman of what religion they were they woulde to suche a one answere furthwith that they were Christiās not Franciscanes Dominicanes etc. because they would iudge the question to concerne religion as it perteineth to faith not otherwise And so what haue you gotten by this These so diuerse sectes of false religion abandoned now out of Nowell fo 56. a. 1. England and the one true religion of oure Sauiour Iesus Christe only there remaining I merueile with what face you can charge vs with schismes and sectes which is youre owne speciall sore These so diuerse ordres of religiouse men being all of Dorman one religion by beliefe and therfore no schismes nor sectes of false religion these by youre meanes being wickedly abandoned out of Englande whereas they remaine yeat in all catholike countries to the inestimable comforte of good people and so manie false religions schismes and hesies brought in by you in to their place as well with vs as elles where where you haue displaced them I merueile with what face you can charge men and wemen of one faithe and beliefe with schismes which is a breache of the cōmon faithe I merueile with what harte you coulde charge the blessed Apostles the Nicene councell the learned fathers with norishing of schismes and sectes emōgest them for squaring only about priuate matters I merueille with what stomake you coulde alleage schoolemen and Logiciners to proue schismes ▪ and sectes emongest the Catholikes I merueile with what vnbridled boldenes you coulde call the diuersitie of apparell girdles hose yea shoes diuersitie of meates c. the verie propertie of schismes and sectes Last of all ▪ I merueile with what face you can charge vs with schismes and sectes which is youre owne special sore And where you warne the renders vpon experience of the multitude Nowell of schismes lately risen sithen the forsaking of that one popishe heade to credite the auncient fathers as witnessing with you against vs you might as iustly warne them to credite the auncient Phariseis rather then Christe and his Apostles bothe for that the In psal 54 first heresy as S. Augustine saieth sprang emongest the disciples off Christe c. and also for that in the Apostles time some vsed such schismaticall sainges as these we holde of Paule some other we holde of Cephas c. whereas there was no such dissention emongest the highe priestes and phariseis but greate vnitie and concorde amongest them against Christes Apostles Nowe M. Nowell hauing done what he can to charge Dorman vs with schismes and knowing withall howe simple the stuffe is that he hathe brought hath founde at the length that it is best to renewe his former plea that is that it is no such greate matter though they agree not emongest them selues especially seing that as before he tolde vs that the Apostles were at dissension emongest them selues so here he will proue the like of the disciples and againe to deface oure vnitie and quiete agrement he hathe founde it to be right good councell to saye that that is no such great matter as the which is cōmon to vs with the Phariseis against them Christes Apostles and disciples forsothe Nowe is not here as I tolde you before a goodly religion Protestāts deface vnitie that maketh the Apostles and disciples of Christe schismatikes that when it can not haue vnitie to mainteine it laboureth all that it can to deface it But nowe let vs heare howe he proueth that their side ought not to be charged with schismes and sectes because I might as iustly he saieth warne men to credite the auncient phariseis rather then Christe and his Apostles Why then were there sectes and schismes betwene Christe and his Apostles as there are betwene Luther and his folowers or agreed the Phariseis in vnitye of one truth not onely against Christ and his but emongest them selues also as we Catholikes doe and euer haue done against Luther whome in this argument M. Nowell yow resemble to Christe and his Apostles For sectes and schismes to be betwene Christe and his Apostles that yow dare not plainely affirme but whereas that being the pretence whereby yow woulde defende youre schismes that yow shoulde haue proued yow leauing it altogether vnproued thinke youre selfe sufficiently discharged because the disciples of Christe fell into heresie Not doubting but emongest the simpler sorte heresie being proued within lesse then two lynes after the mentiō of the Apostles in the disciples they not obseruing the difference betwene Apostles and disciples woulde easely be deceiued and beleue that yow had sufficiently proued the Apostles heretikes For answere to this that yow bring here of the disciples I saye in fewe wordes that these disciples were not of the Apostles but of suche folowers and hearers of Christe as forsooke him before his passion when he preached of the blessed Sacrament as it appeareth in the ghospell The Apostles remained still with Christe their heade Ioan. 6. and forsooke him not Betwene Christe and them was moste perfecte vnitie and agreement Howe can yow then I praye you charge Christ and his Apostles with schismes because of the disciples departing frō Christ Let vs graūte your imaginatiō if you cā not otherwise vnderstād reason that Luther were Christ and Carolstadius Melanchthon with some other his Apostles If this your new Christe and his Apostles agreeing all in one faithe some other disciples comming to them shoulde reuolt and departe from them againe were this nowe a iust cause to call Luther and his companye agreeing all in one schismatikes I thinke yow will not saye so at the least there is no reason why suche departure shoulde preiudicate or hurte them that remaine quiete still as they did before If yow will not nor can not saye thus of Luther why saye yow so off Christe and his Apostles Why saye yow that we maye as iustlye call them schismatikes as we doe yow whereas youre false Christe and his owne Apostles neuer agreed together and oure true Christe with his his neuer disagreed And this is the cause why we call yow heretikes and schismatikes because yow nourishe and encreasse those heresies and schismes that
serueth well for youre purpose to giue vs the slippe and to wynde youre selfe from the matter To my demaunde what heretike was euer vanquished by the scriptures you saye I answere the Arrians Anabaptistes and all heretikes without Nowell fol. 101. a. 5 exception were vanquished and ouerthrowen by the scriptures and that if they were not vanquished by the scriptures they were not vanquished at all By youre answere it shoulde seme M. Nowell that either Dorman you vnderstande not my demaunde or you will not vnderstande it For when I speake of vanquishing of heretikes I meane of ouerthrowing and so coÌ„futing their heresies as that they maye with the worlde be brought vttrely oute of conceite and the memorye of them cleane abolisshed and extinguished as we see Arius heresie once more vniuersall then youres God be praised to be I meane not you maye be sure that the heretikes them selues shoulde confesse them selues to be ouercomen Againe when I aske how they were vanquished by the scriptures I vnderstande by the scriptures alone by the scriptures withoute a iudge who in this doubtefull contention where the Arrian bringeth scripture as well as the catholike as apparent as the catholike more plentifully then the catholike where no other place of scripture can by the catholike be brought to make the matter plaine by waye of conference but the aduersarie will be readie to alleage as euident for him maye giue sentence whether parte hathe better right who alleageth and conferreth the scriptures moste sincerely Thus did the councell of Nice ouerthrowe the heresie of Arrius although not so that he him selfe coulde be brought to acknowledge so muche yeat in suche wise that in processe of time the worlde giuing credite to so learned and generall a councell fell from his heresie and nowe there is not one fauourer thereof in the whole worlde that dare shewe his face Thus shoulde youre heresies and all other be ouerthrowen if we woulde either in suche thinges as the churche hath already determined folowe that sense of the scriptures that it hathe deliuered to vs either elles in thinges ambiguouse and not defined aske and folowe the iudgement therof For that you here cauil that the pope nor popish Nowell b. â— church can be coÌ„uenient and coÌ„petent iudges in controuersies no we risen for that they are bothe parties and parties accused therein no more then the Iuishe high prieste with his churche of Scribes and Phariseis were conuenient and competent iudges in the controuersies betwene them and Christes Apostles The absurditie of this comparison bothe I haue there where Dorman Cap. 12. fol. 164. before in like maner you made it sufficiently declared and the Arrians also might haue pleaded this plea againste the councell of Nice In the whiche the fathers assembled were as muche affected against Arrius heresie as the late councell of Trent or anye that can be holden is againste youres Yeat do not the histories mention that euer they were so impudent Touching the conference of Scriptures together I did so late Nowell b. 15. before at large intreate thereof that I nede not nowe to repeate the same againe As largely M. Nowell as you intreated thereof you saide Dorman neuer a worde howe this controuersie betwene the Arrians and the catholikes bothe alleaging scripture for their M. Nowell answereth not the force of my reason defence might be by onely scripture determined To pretende therfore that it is no nede to repeate that which you neuer touched it is a pretye figure to excuse silence in that wherein you are able to saye nothing Iff you feared you shoulde haue dwelled to longe in that matter you might haue eased that by cutting of manye impertinent discourses that bothe go before and folowe after in this booke off youres namely the nexte sentence that foloweth wherein you labour to proue youre selues to be no Arrians withe the whiche heresye neither I nor anye other doe charge yowe To procede whereas I aske howe it happeneth that the Caluinistes and the Lutherans agree not by conferring one place of scripture with an other to that you saye Nowell fol. 102. a. 23. This is M. Dormans vsage when he can saye nothing off the present case to entremingle foraigne matters thereby to auerte the readers minde from his principall cause remaining vnproued still The principall cause is that there muste be one visible Dorman heade in Christes church to appease controuersies and determine doubtes the heretike saieth it nedeth not the scripture by diligent conference beinge able to satisfie all men therein To this I replied how happeneth it then that the Caluinistes and Lutheranes agree not c Nowe lett all men iudge how truly yowe reprehende me for entremingling foraigne matters But let vs here youre answer to the question But how so euer Caluin and Luther agree in the exposition of Nowell these fewe wordes Hoc est corpus meum This is my bodie they agree bothe in this that the papistes expounde them falsely Who euer hearde a more absurde or folishe answere Or Dorman what answere rather is this to my question to tell vs that the Lutheranes and Caluinistes agree together against vs So did as the scriptures beare witnesse the phariseis and Sad duces so did Herode and Pilate agree against the pretiouse Lucae 23. bodie of Christ at the Crosse as yow doe against it at the altar S. Austen saieth of heretikes Dissentiunt inter se contra Lib. siue Homil. de ouibus vnitatem omnes consentiunt Emongest them selues they are at variaunce against vnitie they all agree My selfe also in the nexte sentence folowing confesse as muche that allthough heretikes in some point dissent yeat they all ioyne and agree in one cancred hatred against the churche What letteth by this meanes why yow shoulde not easelie reconcile together all that huge rable of heretikes mentioned in the table of late set furthe by M. Stapleton who hauing one common father with yowe allthough in manie pointes dissenting agree yeat all with yow against vs But what is this I saie to the purpose Answere if you be hable if scripture can alone ende all controuersies howe happeneth it that the Lutheranes and Caluinistes ende not theire strife thereby whiche continueth notwithstanding their agreing against vs It foloweth For to vse the places by M. Dorman noted out of Hosius he Nowell A. 26. nor all papistes with him shall neuer be hable to showe cause why these wordes Ego sum viâ—is vera I am the true vine do not proue aswell a transsubstantiation as Hoc est corpus meum This is my bodie What this For shoulde perteine to the answering off Dorman my question I see not this I see well it confirmeth strongly my saing that by scripture alone all controuersies can not be iudged For as Caluin bringeth for his opinion this place so I trust yow are not ignorant that Luther had also his places to alleage
therefore they be no parties thereto Whereas yowe promise so largely on the diuelles behalfe yow maie be bolde for as muche as he is hable to doe he is at youre commaundement To youre conclusion that the worde of God is the true B. 13. iudge in all controuersies and doubtes of religion I saie as I saide before that when the church hathe giuen sentence of the meaning and right vnderstanding of the scripture that then in that sense and no otherwise the scripture is the true iudge in all controuersies otherwise I saie that the worde of God lieng yeat in the lettre as it were in the huske is an vncerteine iudge to determine controuersies what so euer Luther Caluin or their adherentes the rest of that blacke garde do saye to the contrarie or be M. Nowell neuer so angry therewith Whereas I declared before what starting holes the Arrians Fol. 105. a ▪ 23. rians Anabaptistes Lutherans Caluinistes and other heretikes haue founde out for the mainteinaunce of their religion and that vpon the same groundes and principles anye desperate heretike that is maie mainteine anye heresie yow take occasion of that worde desperate heretike to reherce once againe a place of S. Cyprian where he calleth by the same name yowe saie all suche as thinke one bishop inferiour to an other as I and all other papistes Cap. 11. sub finem doe but the contrarie to that I haue showed before And surely to thinke thus if it be to be a desperate heretike M. Nowell contrarie to him selfe or a desperate heretike and papist by his owne confessiō or a papist either I praie yowe what be yowe M. Nowell that in youre boke fol. 32. a confesse that in euerie prouince there be certeine chiefe prelates Doeth not the worde chiefe import that there be other inferiour prelates Which worde if yow will nowe reuoke againe if youre bishop will not I trust youre pretensed Archebishop will call yow to a count for it That whiche foloweth fol. 105. b. and. 106. a. because it conteineth but vaine wordes and hathe bene in diuerse other places handled I will here passe ouer Of the place of S. Hierome taken out of his epistle to Damasus and that it hathe bene alleaged to the purpose without wresting or falsifieng The 28. chapiter PROSEcuting this controuersie whether the scripture as we haue it written were hable alone without other meanes to determine all controuersies the whiche the heretike seeth being proued that it can not it will nedes folowe that there must be some other iudge to supplie that office I saide that S. Hierome notwithstanding his greate and excellent knowledge in the tongues woulde not take vpon him to leane in the discussing of doubtes to that rule of theirs to laie and confer together one texte with an other but referred him selfe to the see of Rome c. whose example I exhorted also other to folowe To this M. Nowell answereth as foloweth S. Hierome saieth no where that he would enot compare the Nowell fol. 106. a. 23. scripture together for the discussing of doubtes as M. Dorman woulde beare vs in hande and S Austen saieth he woulde doe it and exhorteth other to doe the same Where doe I beare yowe in hande that S. Hierome Dorman saide that he woulde not not compare the scriptures together A lye 81 ▪ for the discussing of doubtes Why noted you not here the leafe and side I denie not but that it is a necessarie and verie proffitable waie of reading the scriptures to conferre the places together And so doubte I not but that S. Hierome aswell as S. Augustine vsed to doe The whiche maketh verye muche for the Catholique opinion that all questions can not be discussed by thys conference off scripture For iff they coulde what neded S. Hierome so well learned as he was in this controuersie betwene the Catholikes and the Arrians to write so far out of the wildrenes of Syria to Damasus the pope a man allthough singulerly well learned yeat not comparable with him for learning to be resolued at his mouthe what parte to take whereas he had with him the scriptures of God by the whiche by youre saing if he had diligently conferred them together he might haue bene fully instructed in al pointes What ment he elles that he vsed not nowe his accustomed maner of conference but that he sawe that this was a question that coulde not so be tried and therefore he woulde consulte Damasus who being he persuaded him selfe the successour of Peter shoulde be able sufficiently by the grace giuen to that office to resolue him in that which by all his owne labour and diligence he were not at all or not so soone and certeinly hable to finde out S. Hieromes wordes to Damasus Bishop of Rome make nothing Nowell against vs nor with M. Dorman For what merueile is it if that S. Hierome borne in a coast of Italy christened at Rome brought vp at Rome and made prieste at Rome woulde in the faithe of the blessed Trinitie rather ioyne him selfe in communion with Damasus bishop of Rome a learned and godly mā then with Vitalis and Meletius whome M. Dorman calleth Miletus and Paulinus who were Antiochiā bishoppes and therfore strangiers to him and also not cleere from the Arrian heresie That you reporte of S. Hierome that he was borne in a Dorman The place of S. Hieto me to Damasus Tom. 2. epist ad Damasum examined Lib. de ecclesiastie scriptorib coast of Italie it is vntrue For he was as he writeth him selfe borne in a towne called Stridon in the borders of Dalmatia and Pannonia whereas Italie it is well knowen neuer reached so farre or if it had neuer did the peculier prouince of the bishop of Rome extende thither for whiche respect Damasus might be accounted his bisshop But supposing this to be as true as the rest that he was Christened at Rome c. Yeat the causes whiche S. Hierome addeth why he ioyned him selfe to him rather then to anie other maie euidently make faithe that neither because he was borne in a coaste of Italie neither because he was christened brought vp or made prieste in Rome but because he was the successour of Peter he ioyned him selfe to hym in communion rather then to anie other For that ment he by these wordes Beatitudinituae id est cathedrae Petri communione consocior To youre holinesse that is to saye to Peters chaire am I ioyned in communion Tell vs if you can what there neded here anie mention of Peters chaire to be made but that he woulde declare therby the only respect of his communicating with him to be because he was the successour of Peter An other cause which yeat might trulier be called a cause or reason of the first cause why he ioyned him selfe to him that sate in Peters chaire your selfe woulde seme to haue founde out in these wordes folowing But will M. Dorman saye S. Hierome
fundamenta confirmet That is to saie Yow haue hearde often times that Petre him selfe is called by oure Lorde a rocke as where he saieth Thow arte Peter and vpō this rocke will I builde my churche If therefore Petre be the rocke vpon the whiche the churche is builded he did well firste to heale the feete that as in the churche he conteineth the fundation of faithe so he shoulde in this man strengthen the fundations of his membres I might here alleage diuerse other places of S. Austen to this sense * As in Psalm 30. alijs multis locis but these two here vouched and that other whiche he mentioneth him selfe in his Retractations to be in his writinges against Donatus maie be sufficient to teache that if he thought not fullie of this pointe as we doe as by these three places for one brought by yow it should seme he did he was yeat indifferent and not against vs. But what if S. Austen had bene moste earnestlie against vs Yeat could you not so presse vs with his auctoritie M. Nowell by being greater then Erasmus equall with S. Hierome aboue all papistes in credite and auctoritie that he should be aboue Clement Tertullian Ciprian Basile Hilarius Ambrose Hierome Cirill Leo who all with one voice agree in this interpretation that the church was founded vpon Petre. a Epist 1. ad Iacob fratr domini Clement saieth of him that by the merite of true faithe he was determined to be the fundation of the churche b Lib. de praescrip haeret Tertullian afketh whether any thing coulde be hidden from Petre called the rocke of the churche to be builded Sainte Cyprian libro 1. epist 12. libro 4. epist 9. Lib. de habit virgin Lib. de bono pat epist ad Iubaian and epist ad Quintum in all these places affirmeth that the churche was builded vpon Petre. d Lib. 2. aduers Eunoni S. Basile because that Petre excelled in faithe to ke therfore he saieth the building of the church vpon him e In cap. Math. 16. Hilarie the B. of Poictiers in Fraunce calleth Petre Felix ecclesiae fundamentum the happy fundation of the church f Sermon 47. S. Ambrose hath that Petre was called of Christe ecclesiarum petra the rocke of churches S. Hierome emongest manie other places expounding the verie wordes of Christe Thow art Petre c. Math. 16. giueth this sense Aedificabo ecclesiam meam super te I will builde my church vpon the. g Lib. 2. in Ioannem cap. 12. Serm. 3. in Anniuersario assumptionis suae ad ponificatum Ciril saieth that Christe in the giuing to Petre his newe name signified therby that in him as in a rocke and moste strong stone he woulde builde his churche Leo to make an ende bringeth in Christe speaking of Petre after this sorte Ego tibi dico hoc est sicut pater meus tibi manifestauit diuinitatem meam ita ego tibi notam facio excellentiam tuam Quia tu es Petrus id est quum ego sim inuiolabilis petra ego lapis angularis qui facio vtraque vnum tamen tu quoque petra es quia mea virtute solidaris vt quae mihi potestate sunt propria tibi sint mecum participatione communia super hanc petram aedificabo ecclesiam meam c. that is to saye I tell the as my father hathe made manifest to the his diuinitie so doe I declare to the thy excellencie that thow arte Petre that is Note how Christe is the rocke and how Petre. to saie whereas I am the inuiolable rocke and corner stone which make bothe one the fundation beside the whiche no man can laye anie other yeat arte thow also a rocke because by my strength thow arte made sounde and massiff that those thinges which are propre to my selfe by power maye be common betwene vs by participation and vpon this rocke will I builde my churche You haue hearde M. Nowell for one place brought by you out of S. Austen to confirme youre purpose three other euen taken from the same man to the contrarie Yow In his bookes of Retractations haue hearde that in that verie booke where withe better iudgement he ouerloketh and correcteth all his former doinges he maketh it a matter indifferent to thinke either the one waye or the other Last of all you haue hearde the iudgemēt of nyne of the moste learned fathers in Christes churche agreing all in one sentence against you Go youre waies nowe and boaste of S. Austen being against all these fathers and him selfe to if he shoulde be of the minde that you would haue him to be I trust you shall neuer be hable to bring the wise or learned in to such a fooles paradise as to make them leauing the whole consent of so manie learned doctours to folowe youre interpretation grounded vpon one not muche liking the same him selfe You gather of this place of S. Austen an argument against fol. 110. ◠17. religiouse men You moued it before and there the reader shall finde it answered Yeat this to saye of the Augustiniās of whome warily you forbare to make anie mention before the reason that you make here why they shoulde not be of S. Augustines institution is false and vntrue For neither the Dominicanes bearing the name of S. Dominike nor the Franciscanes of sainte Frauncis neither yeat these Augustinians of sainte Augustine doe beare these names in suche sorte as the Corinthians did claime to holde of suche as baptised them How they did it appeareth by these wordes of sainte Austen here in this place by you alleaged Apostolus autē Paulus vbi cognouit se eligi Christum contemni diuisus est inquit Christus The Apostle Paule when he perceiued that he was chosen and Christe contemned why saieth he is Christe diuided In this wise M. Nowell because the Augustinians neither builde vpon sainte Austen nor are called after his name there is no cause yeat shewed why they maie not be well inough of his institution as that they are Richardus Cenomanus in his learned censure vpon sainte Austens rule hathe againste Erasmus moste euidently proued As for youre other witnesses that you can ioyne to Erasmus that popes haue bene heretikes if that could be proued A. 24. by a hundred witnesses yeat till you be hable to proue that they had erred in defining anye matter iudicially and deliuering the same to the whole churche of Christe yowe haue proued nothing against this See that there is not the rocke With like fraude did M. Dorman leaue also that whiche nexte Nowell b. 17. foloweth in S. Hierome of the house without the whiche he that eateth the paschall lambe is a prophane or vnholy man and the arke of Noe withoute the whiche all that be perishe by the floude For though in that place it might seeme to make for M. Dormans purpose concerning the supremacy of the B.
of Rome as Erasmus hathe noted yet he knowing or some man warning him that the house withoute the whiche the paschall lambe maye not be eaten the arke c. by all doctours is interprete to be the one vniuersall church of Christe and by none to be the churche of Rome therefore like a wise man or elles a false fox he let that folowing alone also as he cut of Christe the heade going and ioyned nexte before and so he hathe tolde you a tale bothe withoute heade and tayle thereby to proue the pope who is Antichrist to be the heade of Christes churche Is not this M. Nowell more then intollerable impudencie Dorman to charge me with fraude for the leauing out of that sentence then which there is none either in the workes of S. Hierome him selfe or anie of the other learned doctours that more maketh for the dignitye of the see of Rome for the omitting whereof in my boke I deserued rather to be noted at the catholikes handes of ouermuche simplicitye then at youres of fraude and sutteltye But howe truly here let the place itselfe iudge Omitting Erasmus whose iudgement nowe you condemne which yeat in me might haue bene counted some pointe of leuitie if I had euer praised him as you did before to be no vnskillfull or negligent viewer of the olde fathers writinges I will come to the place it selfe whiche I doubte not but by construing for I truste although you care not muche for the rules of the churche you owe yeat for olde acquaintaunce youre reuerence to the rules of Grammer to make bothe you and other men to vnderstād also how much this place maketh for me and howe little cause I had to suppresse it and howe muche yet lesse you had to make anye mention of it Saint Hieromes wordes therefore concerning this matter are these Ego nullum primum nisi Christum sequens beatit udini tuae id est cathedrae Petri communione consocior Super illam petram aedificatam ecclesiam scio Quicunque extra hanc domum agnum comederit prophanus est Nowe let vs construe M. Nowell Ego I sequens folowing nullum primum none first nisi Christum but Christ cōsocior am ioyned communione in communion beatitudini tuae to thy holynesse id est that is to saie cathedrae Petri to the chaire of Petre. Super illā petrā vpō that rocke what rocke M. Nowel but the same chaire of Peter to the whiche he professed him selfe to be ioyned in communion going nexte before these wordes scio I knowe ecclesiam the churche aedificatam to be builded Quicunque who so euer comederit shall eate agnum the lambe extra hanc domú out of this house prophanus est is prophane Now these wordes being truly by me thus construed euerye man learned and vnlearned maye see that S. Hierome by the house whiche he here mentioneth ment Christes vniuersall churche but builded Super illam petram vpon that rocke whiche rocke in the wordes nexte before he called Petres chaire to saie Petres auctoritie If you can construe them otherwise and make them to haue any other relation then this and proue it by the rulers of Gramer you maye vaunt that you haue showed vs a scholemasters tricke that neuer was harde of yeat But I am halfe in dispare that you shall euer be able seing that youre frinde Erasmus as good a Grammarian as you and as euill in a maner affected to the See of Rome as appeareth in diuerse places by his notes and censures coulde finde no suche shifte and therefore was faine as you muste at the length to confesse the truthe that S. Hierome was of the minde that all churches shoulde be subiecte to the churche of Rome or at the least no strangers from it Nowe whereas you saye that this house that S. Hierome mentioneth is of none interprete to be the churche of Rome what were that to oure purpose if it were so seing it is interprete of the vniuersall churche whiche is of all the auncient fathers acknowledged to be builded vpon Peters chaire as S. Hierome saieth here and as hathe bene declared before S. Cyprian who calleth the churche of Rome for that cause catholicae fidei Lib. 4. epist 8. radicem matricem the rocke and mother churche of the catholike churche Yeat lacke there not also fathers that in a sense that is as in the churche of Rome all other churches are conteined call it also by the name of the catholike churche As in effect S. Ambrose did when he called Damasus the pope ruler of the whole church which he coulde by no meanes be but as he was bishop of Rome Thus In commēt in cap. 3. 1. Tim. muche maie serue for my purgation that I haue not delt fraudulently in leauing out this parte of S. Hieromes sentence Nowe let vs procede Yow make much adoe about Vitalis and Meletius and saie that I saie vntrulie that S. Hierome saieth he knoweth not Nowell fo 111. a. 1. them because they were aduersaries to the seate of Rome the cause being because they were aduersaries to the true doctrine of the moste blessed Trinitie whiche Damasus did defende I reporte me to the learned whether I had cause to saie Dorman so or no not because of these wordes who so euer gathereth not with the scattreth alone which might perhappes be trulie spoken to anie other catholike bishop but because of the circumstances that go before ioyned to these as the consulting of Petres chaire the ioyning of him selfe thereto in communion To the whiche because they did not ioyne them selues as he did he refused them If yow had spoken no more vntrulie then I yowe woulde not to colour the matter the better haue imagined that emongest other causes why S. Hierome kepte not these schismatikes companie one was because they were foriners and not his owne bishoppes an other for that they were of a strange language Ah M. Nowell did yow nodde here that yowe coulde not see that S. Hierome affirmeth that the folowed the Aegiptian confessors the bishop of Romes felowe bishoppes Were not they as muche foriners to him as were Vitalis and Meletius was not their language as strange Yeat yow vpon this desire the reader to note that S. Hierome woulde B. 25. not knowe Vitalis and Meletius because they were foriners not his owne bishoppes c. And so make a comparison betwene youre refusall of the pope and S. Hieromes refusall of these schismatikes laing for a grounde without anye proufe that the pope is a foriner and hathe nothing to doe withe yow Of the place of S. Austen taken out of the 110. question of his questions vpon the olde and newe testament The 29. chapiter HERE M. Nowell vpon the censure of Erasmus of this worcke of S. Austens maketh this shorte but sharpe conclusion against me So that it were to muche impudency for Nowell fo 112. a. 30. Dorman anie man but only M.
one and therein resteth the strength and force of my exāple I make no comparison betwene all kingdomes of the worlde whiche be manie and all churches which are but one as you doe here deceauing your selfe and other toe For if I shoulde so haue done then had not the comparison bene good Nowe if it were as true that God had ordeined all the kingdomes of the worlde to make one kingdome and not manie as he hath all the churches to be one and not manie then if you denied to all these kingdomes ioyned in one a visible king to be aboue all the rest and to gouerne the whole because god is the Monarche and ruler of all as you doe to the vniuersall churche for the same cause I woulde saie that you offendid as muche therein not alowing to all these kingdomes being but one one heade and chiefe gouernour as you shoulde doe if you woulde graunte to particuler kingdomes no particuler king the reason being as greate why the whole shoulde haue one ruler ouer it as why anie particuler membre shoulde But nowe I can not so saye because God hath appointed no suche ordre in the worlde as he hath in his kingdome the churche and therfore the questions be not like From this you runne as one that feared to tarie to long to gesse what we woulde saie if the time serued vs and here on Gods name you tel vs a long tale of the popes rule ouer all the worlde in temporalities and of king Iohn as muche to the purpose as if you had tolde vs of Robin hood and therfore I passe it ouer with youre other reasons that folowe fo 118. b. made to boulster vp the rotten reason of youre Apologie because they haue bene so often answered by showing the difference betwene the two states of the worlde and the churche The answere to the conclusion The 32. chapiter NOWE foloweth M. Nowelles conclusion wherein drawing nere to the ende and knowing howe weakely the matter hathe bene handled by him in the whole processe of his booke before he thinketh by a certeine lusty brauery of wordes to make amendes and so to beare awaye the garlande But nowe let vs here howe he bestirreth him Thus I trust good Readers you see the insufficiencie or more Nowell fo 119. a. 7. truly the lewdnesse of M. Dormans prouffes of the necessitie of one only heade ouer Christes whole church here in earthe you see where he saieth he hathe sufficiētly proued it to be Christes pleasure that there shoulde be suche an one heade that he hathe not nor coulde not for if he coulde he woulde alleage out of the newe testament where Christes will and pleasure is written and declared moste largely and manifestly as muche as one worde foūding to that purpose so farre of is it that it is as he saieth sufficiētly proued Thus I trust you see good Readers howe M. Nowell Dorman hauing begonne with a lye in the verie title of his booke calling it a Reproufe of my boke which reproueth but only 15. leaues hathe continued and nowe endeth the same in such wise as the middle and ende maye appeare in all mennes iudgement to answere to the beginning Yow see where he saieth that I haue not sufficiently proued it to be Christes pleasure that there shoulde be one heade in his steede in the whole churche because I alleaged no testimonie oute of the newe testament that in restreining my prouffes to the only newe testament and calling the testimonies brought out of the olde lawe as he dothe hereafter olde shadowes while he reproueth my prouffes for this cause he semeth not to be farre from the heresie of the Manichees who condemned the olde testament It was not M. Nowell because I coulde not that I alleaged no proufe out of the newe testament But the cause if you will nedes knowe it was for this that I thought it best to vse suche testimonies as consisting in facte and hauing bene alreadye put in execution you shoulde be lesse able to cauill against especially making my counte that the appointing of one chiefe prieste in the olde lawe being for the benefite of Goddes people you woulde easely admitte that Christe woulde be as beneficiall to his churche in the newe lawe Otherwise I coulde haue brought to you oute of the ghospell of S. Matthewe the wordes of oure Sauiour Matth. 16. to S. Petre where he vsing these wordes And I tell the that thow arte Petre and vpon this rocke I will builde my churche and againe what so euer thow shalt binde vpon earthe shall be bounde in heauen c. made Peter as Chrisostom witnesseth Shepeherd of the churche heade of the churche ruler ouer the whole Homi. 55. lu Matth. worlde I coulde haue alleaged lhe place of S. Iohn where Christe committing to Peter the charge of all his flocke Ioan. vlt. excepting none made by that meanes one ruler of the whole Homil. in cap. Ioan. vlt. and committed curam orbis terrarum the charge of the vniuersall worlde to Peter as saieth the same Chrisostome These places coulde I haue alleaged and other also had it not bene to auoide wrangling and for that that I persuaded my selfe that this example takē from the gouernement of Goddes people the Iues shoulde be to all indifferent mē sufficient enough to confirme my purpose as til M. Nowell confute it it is Yow see that schismes and controuersies by S. Cyprians iudgement Nowell and S. Augustins with 217. bishoppes moe assembled in the African councell with him and by good reason and experience allso maye be beste quieted in the countries where they arise You see that neither S. Cyprian neither S. Augustine Dorman neither the 217. bishoppes emongest whome M. Nowell before nombred Orosius being no bishoppe but a prieste onely and Prosper a bishop of Rhegium in Italie and therefore not like to be at anye councell in Africa neither yeat reason or experience whiche teache the contrarye doe saye Supra cap. 11. that schismes and controuersies maye be best quieted and decided in the countries where they arise That which they saye is ment of criminall causes not of schismes about doctrine as those wordes of S. Cyprian conteining the reason why he woulde haue suche causes hearde in the countries where they happen being these but ought there to make answere to their causes where they maye haue accusers and witnesses of their crimes doe well declare And thus you see that this is a manifold lye Yow see that it becommeth man vnhable well to gouerne a Nowell verie little thinge to humble him selfe and to yealde vp the honour and glory of gouerning the whole worlde and churche to God c. You see by the example of Peter refusing of humilitie Dorman the seruice that Christ offred to him in wasshing his feete Ioan 13. that true humilitye is to doe that whiche Christe biddeth to be done Yow see withall M. Nowells honestie
that to deceiue the simple vseth here these wordes Yealde vp the honour and glorie of gouerning the whole world and church to god as though any man so claimed the gouernement of the churche as that he woulde displace Christe thereof Also you see that in this treatie hetherto as M. Dorman hathe Nowell not one worde out of the newe testament so hath he alleaged but only two textes out of the olde testament one oute of Deuteron cap. 17. c. an other of Numeri 16. which bothe make directly against him c. You see and knowe I doubte not that one texte of holye Dorman scripture is as good as a hundred You see that M. Nowell goeth guilefully aboute to abuse the simple by this terme nation as thoughe because the Iues whiche were but one nation had their chiefe prieste and high bishoppe therefore there shoulde folowe thereof naught elles but that euerye nation countrye diocesse or churche shoulde haue also their chiefe bishoppe withoute anye one heade ouer the whole whereas the Iues althoughe they were but one nation were yeat the chosen people and churche of God and emongest diuerse heades of seuerall tribues there was ouer all those heades one chiefe heade You haue seene that of S. Cyprians applieng of this texte to inferiour magistrates can be gathered no necessary argument that it maie not be otherwise applyed that is to the higher You haue seene as many as haue readen my first booke fol. 33. 34. 35. that Moises was a prieste that yeat there foloweth no absurditie of being two high priestes at once because as S. Augustine Lu quaest super Leuitic lib. 3. cap. 23. saieth they were bothe high priestes in diuerse respectes the one in commaunding to be done the other in executing thinges commaunded And withall you see that we are here by M. Nowell vntruly burdened of disobedience to oure Souereigne as not acknowledging suche auctoritye in the same ouer spirituall matters as was in Moises and Aaron VVherefore you maye well vnderstande that were it either Nowell proffitable or necessary c to haue such an one heade God woulde haue certified vs of a thing so proffitable and necessarie more plainely and exprossely then by two olde shadowes of the Iuishe churche which doe teache vs also the contrary God hath certified vs by building his church vpon one Dorman by making one generall pastour ouer all the rest that his Matth 16. Ioan. vlt. pleasure was to appointe this maner of gouernement in his churche But what meane yow to finde faulte with the testimonies of the olde testament calling them shadowes and to demaunde other of the newe hauing brought for youre opinion not so muche as one piece of a sentence out of either the olde testament or the newe Yow see howe blindely he going aboute to proue that there Nowell fo 120. a. 1 ought to be one onelye heade ouer all the church bringeth in for proufe thereof the regiment of seuerall countries kingdomes cities c. by seuerall princes seuerall magistrates and heades whiche maketh moste directly with vs that seuerall churches should in likewise haue their seuerall heades Yow see that oure question being whether the catholike Dorman churche of Christe whiche is but one ought to be ruled by one heade or manie M. Nowell here like the blinde bayard that he speakethe of saieth that my example proueth for them that it ought to be ruled by manye because many kingdomes haue many kinges wherein yow see that diuiding the church which is but one he goeth against the faithe of the churche Yow see that he dissembleth my reason which is that as a kingdom because it is one is best ruled by one heade so the church which is but one is best ruled by one heade Yow see that to this reason hetherto he neuer answered Yow see how often S. Cyprian is by him alleaged for the pope Nowell of Rome his supremacy in those places where he speaketh of Rogatian and of him selfe being bothe bishoppes c. Yow see howe the places of S. Cyprian and S. Hierom Dormna expressely mainteining the superioritie of one aboue the rest in euerye diocesse with the cause added for the auoiding of schismes brought by me to proue by more forcible reason the necessitie of one heade ouer the whole M. Nowell wresteth to the directe prouing of the B. of Rome his supremacy wherof in that place as it was not my purpose to intreate so if I had I had done preposterously and confounded my appointed ordre of writing Yow see howe the place of S. Basile brought to declare the maner off heretikes in contemning the auctoritie of their bishoppes he laieth to my charge vntruly to haue bene brought as spoken of the pope of Rome Yow see that the comparison made betwene Nouatus and oure protestantes of England holdeth in this that either of them laboureth to withdrawe the subiectes from their laufull obedience Yow haue heard good Readers the sory melodie of M. Nowelles harpe whereupon twanging on a false string he made a shamefull lye in saing that Vrsitius and Valens offred vp their recantation as well to Athanasius as to Iulius the pope Yow see that he hath oftentimes beelied S. Cyprian and S. Hierome feining them to make all bishoppes equall in auctoritie and no one to be aboue the other Yowe see his owne inconstancie and disagrement withe him selfe one while affirming all bishoppes to be equall and none to be aboue the other an other while denieng and making chiefe prelates in euerie prouince yow see him reiecting pope Leo as witnesse in his owne cause and bringing in the African to esbeare witnesse to them selues Yow see to deface pope Leo howe shamefully he sclaundreth Zosimus of whome the whole Africane councell wrote so reuerently Yow see howe he burdeneth without all maner of proufe Celestinus of whome Prosper writeth so honorably with other his successours to haue forged a greate many of the epistles nowe abrode in the names of Clement Anacletus c. yowe see howe he spareth no iniuriouse wordes to Leo calling him theefe noting him of ambition whome the councell of Calcedon called thrise blessed and God honoured withe miracles Yow see that he chalengeth vntrulie the copies of Leo to be contrarye one to an other Yow see that he is a plaine makebate and to mende his cause by setting the doctours at variance betwene them selues how he heweth mangleth and cutteth awaie from the auctors that he alleageth wordes yea sentences to serue his purpose You see in defence of schismes howe he laboureth to finde vnquietnesse emongest the Apostles and disciples of Christe you see that to deface vnitie as he taketh it from the Apostles so he attributeth it to the Phariseis and enemies of Christe You see for lacke of weightier matter he chargeth vs with the disputable opinions of scholemen and logiciners with diuersitie of apparell of diete and meates which maners as
Dorman vaine or euill thing neither because the Arrians and Anabaptistes vsed it neither for any other cause you haue therfore beelied me once more I acknowledge it to be bothe A lye 80. proffitable and necessarie only I saie that to ende all controuersies it is an insufficient meanes Because reiecting the determination of the churche you take vpon you as the Arrians did and the Anabaptistes doe to mainteine youre heresies by this pretensed conference of scripture not regarding that suche iudgement belongeth to the churche therefore I call yow and iustly terme you heretikes And as I doe reiect this conference that you talcke of because you vse it to that ende that these heretikes did so doe I refuse all suche scripture toe as is falsely wrested as was that whiche the diuell alleaged In whiche sense because Christe and his Apostles neuer alleaged anie I can not finde faulte with them I can not you saye deuise a waye that shoulde satisfye Nowell a. 20. all heretikes withoute all contradiction or exception on their parte I can deuise no waie in dede M. Nowell to satisfie al heretikes Dorman it passeth my power I cōfesse But God hathe deuised a waye to ouerthrowe all heresies if suche as you are woulde The way to ouerthrowe heresies be no let to his working And that is the thinge that ought to suffice vs. Will you knowe what waye it is Forsothe if this principle and grounde the which I labour to proue that Christes churche here in earthe being but one and visible hathe also one chiefe visible heade to rule and gouerne the same were thoroughly as it ought to be persuaded to all men then the heretike which nowe by coloured argumentes triumpheth ouer not onely the meaner sorte but also oftentimes many of the wiser and better learned the thinge called into question being either suche as is the question of baptising of infantes as whereof we haue no expresse scripture but onelye a tradition continued in the churche from the Apostles time and deliuered from hande to hande to vs either elles so perplexe and doubteful as the aduersarie will for his heresie bring not onely as many but mo textes also that shall seme to make for his purpose then shall the catholike as did the Arrian then shoulde I saye the heretike in al mens iudgemēt although neuer in his owne easely be discomfited and ouerthrowen For then let the Anabaptiste crie as muche as he woulde that the baptisme of infantes hathe no grounde of scripture the meanest man in a parishe woulde be able to tell him Sir the churche whiche I am bidden to giue eare to by the scripture vseth it and hathe done from the beginning this suffiseth me Againe let the Arrian bringe and heape together all the scripture that he hathe let him vse all his shiftes distinctions and gloses when he hathe all done the true catholike seketh after the interpretation of the churche that interpretation to witte that the membres agreing with the heade obserue and haue obserued vniuersally thoroughe out the whole worlde Thus if the more parte of men woulde doe as they ought neither woulde heretikes haue any list to publishe heresies their starting holes being by this wholesome remedie taken awaye neither shoulde they being brought furthe into the light be hable anie while to continue And this call I the ouerthrowing of heretikes and heresies For to persuade an indurat heretike by anye meanes I confesse it to be a thing impossible seing that not euerye man that is a true Christian can by conference of the scripture be by and by persuaded in all doubtes as you here vntruly saye he maye When partes be taken in opinions emongest learned men eache parte forcing the scriptures by conference and otherwise to make for that sense which he hathe conceiued is no man a true Christian but he that cā be satisfied in this case by the scripture Hath it not bene sene that the mainteiners of suche contrary opinions beinge for vertue and learning estemed of the worlde haue made also right good Christians to doubte And what case had Christe lefte vs in if in this perplexitie there were not a churche to directe vs if that churche had not a heade to speake to vs which being in S. Augustine and Prospers tyme Prosper lib. contra Collator cap. 10. Zozimus the Pope as you hearde before shewe vs nowe if you can why Pius the pope shoulde not be the lyke And thus you see M. Nowell I truste that you haue to muche abused bothe the Readers and me in labouring firste to persuade that I mislike the Scriptures whiche I doe in no sense or the conference thereof whiche I doe not simply but in this respecte that you contende that that waye alone is sufficient to ende all controuersies nexte in this that you altre my reason whiche is that because by this pretensed conference of youres heresies can neuer be ouerthrowen while by the subtilitye of heretikes alleaging scripture conferring scripture and that so probably that euen the best learned maye be shaken in their faithe and so heresie mainteined you make the same reason to be because there can no waye possibly be founde able to satisfie all frowarde heretikes Vppon this supposall of youres that I reiect this conference of scripture as no sufficient meane to ende all controuersies because it can not satisfie al men you aske this question And thinketh he that Popes of Rome men of suche lyfe suche Nowell b. 6. Holde the man a bowle for he will vomite partialitie suche ignorance such vntruthe such falsehode such bribery Simoniakes poisonners murtherers shal satisfie all men in all iudgementes of all causes and controuersies yea in their owne verye causes wherein they be parties and that without all exception The diuell they shall and that I may saye truly Non loqueris sed latras you speake not here M. Nowell Dorman but you barcke you reason not but you raile If all these faultes that you here heape together were in one pope at one time yeat shoulde they not be all any let why the same might not and shoulde not giue true iudgement and satisfie all good men To this I haue answered before where Cap. 3. fol. 8. b. 10 fol. 39. b. yow gaue me like occasion thither I remit the reader Yeat this I woulde faine knowe of yowe by the waie and desire yow when yow wright nexte to resolue me therein whether if these popes had the contraries to these vices that is so manie vertues yowe thinke they might giue true iudgement and satisfie all men If yow saie they could not what neded then this odiouse rehersall of so manie grieuouse faultes seing by no meanes they coulde If yowe saie that being good men they might then shewe scripture or bring reason to proue that this auctoritie is lost by euill manners In controuersies rising vpon the scripture the popes cause is not handled but gods and