prayer what waye of ministring of the sacraments your Church had before Papistry as you call it did preuaile in the worlde IVstinus Martyr in his second Apollogie to the Emperour declareth plainely what order of seruice and ministration of sacramentes our Church had before Papistry preuayled On the daye called Sonday sayth he there is a meeting together of all them that dwell in the Citie or in the countrie and the monumentes of the Apostles or the writinges of the Prophetes are reade vntill it be thought sufficient when the reader hath made an ende he that is our ouerseer or cheefe minister maketh a sermon of admonition and exhortation to follow those good thinges that are reade After this we all stande vp together and make our prayers and as we haue saide before when our prayers are ended there is brought forth bread and wine water and the cheefe minister doth likewise with all his might yelde prayers and thankesgeuing and the people aunswereth Amen Then is made distribution to euery one and receyuing of those thinges for which thankes was geuen and to them that be absent it is sent by the deacons Such as are riche and willing doe geue almes what they will c. By this one authoritie it may be seene though other might be brought what order of seruice and ministration of sacraments our Church vsed before Papistry gat the vpper hande 2 Shew one booke of Communion or what els you list that was in English or lacked prayer for the departed or inuocation of Sainctes in heauen or that wanted oblation or sacrifice or that charged a number to receyue or els that the preest coulde not consecrate nor say Masse himselfe or shew any note in a Communion booke that the people shoulde take the sacrament for plaine breade or that they should geue no honor to it shew this booke or any leafe or line of this booke IT may trouble a wise man to aunswere all the questions that a foole can propounde you requier to see a booke of Communion in English or that lacked c. When it is confessed that the English nation receiued their religion first from Rome at such time as Religion there was verie corrupt what marueill is it if we can not shewe you such a Communion booke as you require but we can easily shew you out of the scripture the the Communion ought to be ministred in the vulgare tongue that prayer for the deade and to the deade ought not to be vsed that the sacrament ought not to be turned into a sacrifice that there ought to be a communiō of many receauers and not a priuate masse that the substance of the bread is not changed that the elementes of the sacrament are not to be honored these I say we can proue out of the worde of God the Catholike writers of the olde Church And though perchaunce it wil be harde to finde a communion booke in English yet haue I founde you a canon of the Laterane Councell that it ought to haue bene translated into English yet are there founde diuers monumentes of Antiquitie as Prayers Psalmes and Homilies c. in the olde English or Saxons tongue in which the reall presence transubstantiation and other poinctes of Popish doctrine are plainly confuted There may be shewed you also Bybles both the olde Testament and New in the English tongue of diuers translations in olde written hande Also great bookes of English homilies inueighing directly against the Pope and all Popish doctrine in olde English written hande with diuers other small treatises and pamphlets of like matters if these woulde do you any good you might haue the sight of them when you please 3 Or any Church or Congregation that euer had any Authenticall seruice but ours and I recant THe Church of the Brytannes before Augustine came in with Romish seruice had they not trow you Authenticall seruice which continued in the faith of Christ euen from the Apostles time The Grecians also Orientall churches haue they not vnto this day their Authenticall seruice which is not yours If you can not deny this you should recant The 13. article hath 2. demaundes 1 Furthermore I requier to know what shoulde be the cause that the Protestants them selues doe receiue all Byshops Priestes Deacons and other officers spirituall of all sortes of our Catholike church and doe admit them as men lawfully and sufficiently ordered both to preach minister sacraments and to exercise spirituall iurisdiction no lesse but rather more than if they were of their owne ordering where we of the Catholike church doe not acknowledge any man of their calling to be any whit more fitte for any spirituall function than other lay men ALthough all godly men wishe more seueritie of discipline to be vsed in receyuing them that come out of heresies to serue in the Church than is commonly practised in England yet you are highlie deceyued if you thinke we esteeme your offices of Bishops priests deacōs any better than the state of lay men but farre worse for we iudge them to be nothing els but Antichristianitie heresie and blasphemie And therefore we receiue none of them to minister in our church except they forsweare your religion And so their admission is not an allowing of your ordering but a new calling vnto the ministerie 2 Therefore vpon this presumption that they doe not onely admit our ministring of sacraments but also the lawfull ordering of the ministers for the same if they can shew me why our church hauing by their owne consent and approuing lawfull priestes and bishops should not be the true church I recant YOu presume to much as I saide before to thinke that we receiue your orderinge to be lawfull or your ministring of sacraments to be pure And if you gather that we admitte your ministration of sacraments because we doe not rebaptize them that were baptized by you we maye likewise gather that you admit our ministration of sacraments because you doe not rebaptize them that are baptized of vs nor marrie againe those that are married in our Church wheras you compt mariage to be a sacrament so that our accepting of your doings doth no more allow your church than your accepting of our doinges doth allow our Church And as touching the sacrament of Baptisme because you reteyne the Institution in baptizing in the name of the Father the Sonne and the holy Ghost and in asmuch as the sacraments take not their effect of the minister but of God we receiue it as of other heretikes which likewise reteine the Institution Wherefore there is no cause why you shoulde thinke we allow yours to be the true Church thereby So that there is good cause why you shoulde recant The 14. article hath 5. demandes 1 Also I demande what furniture or commodity in seruing God the Christianity of any age or any part of Christendome had euer by your Congregations THe seruice of God hath small neede of furniture in outwarde thinges for
Catholike Church then can you no more condemne vs then Christ and his Apostles that were not onely not called the true Church but also were called heretikes deceiuers by the people of the Iewes which were as rightly called God his people as they that giue you the name of Catholike Church are called the Christian world It is well you haue nothing better to proue your Church then the honorable name of Catholike nor any thing more to condēne our Church then that we are not called Catholike and yet we haue as many nations and more then you haue that by publike authoritie call vs Catholikes and you heretikes although you most shamefully sclaunder vs that we doe refuse the name being offered vnto vs Seeing you boast so much of the name Catholike you shall heare what some of the old writers iudged thereof Chrysostome in an homelie that he writeth of Adam and Eue in the later ende hath these words after he hath tolde them that he hath no neede to repeate such depe questions as those men haue handled which haue fought against heretikes Satis sufficere credimus quicquid secūdum praedictas regulas Apostolica scripta nos docuerunt vt prorsus opinemur Catholicum quod apparuerit praefixis sententijs esse contrarium that is we beleue that what so euer the Apostles haue taught vs according to the foresayd rules is sufficient in so much that in no wise we thinke that to be Catholike which shall appeare to be contrary to the sentences before determined By this you may see that Chrysostome thought it not sufficient to haue the name of Catholike for he iudged nothing to be Catholike in deede that was contrary to the rule groūded in the writings of the Apostles Wherfore how so euer you boast of the honorable name of Catholike except you can proue that your opinions agree with the Scripture they are not Catholike in deede by Chrysostomes iudgement S. Augustine also in his booke de Genese ad literam imperfecto cap. 1. speaking of the Catholike faith sayth This is an article thereof that we should beleue Constitutam ab eo matrem Ecclesiam quae Catholica dicitur ex eo quia vniuersaliter perfecta est in nullo claudicat per totum orbem diffusa est That he hath appoynted a mother Church which is called Catholike of this because it is vniuersally perfect halteth in nothing and is dispersed ouer all the worlde S. Augustine here is not content that the Church be onely called Catholike but sheweth when it is that which it is called and therefore the popish Church not being vniuersally perfect as most Papists will confesse that many thinges in their church haue neede of reformation halting in many thinges from the truth of God his worde neither yet being dispersed ouer all the world but conteyned in a corner of Europa is not by S. Augustines rule the Catholike Church Furthermore S. Augustine cōtra Epistolam Fundamēti cap. 4. against the Manichees plainely declareth how farre forth not onely the name of Catholike but also how farre vniuersally consent succession antiquitie are to be allowed Vt ergo hanc omittam sapientiam c. Therefore to omitte this wisedom which you do beleue to be in the Catholike Church there be many other things which may hold me most righteously in her bosome The cōsent of people and nations holdeth me the authoritie begun with miracles nourished with hope encreased with charitie confirmed by antiquitie doth hold me The succession of Priestes from the very seate of Peter the Apostle vnto whom our Lord after his resurrection committed his sheepe to be fedde euen vnto this present bishopricke doth hold me Last of all that very name of Catholike doth hold me which name not without a cause this Church alone hath so obteyned among so many heresies that wheras all heretiks would be called Catholikes yet when a stranger shall aske where men meete at the Catholike Church none of the heretikes dare shew him either their principall temple or house All this you will say maketh exceeding much for vs yea but heare that which followeth Apud vos autem vbi nihil horum est quod me inuitet ac teneat sola personat veritatis pollicitatio quae quidem si tam manifesta monstratur vt in dubium venire non possit proponenda est omnibus illis rebus quibus in Catholica teneor that is But among you where there is none of these thinges that may prouoke or holde me there soundeth the onely promise of truth which if it be shewed so manifest that it can not come in doubt is to be preferred before all those thinges by which I am holden in a Catholike Church By this you may plainly see that though consent antiquitie succession and the name of Catholike be good confirmation when they are ioyned with the truth yet when a truth is seuered from them it is more to be regarded then they all it is truth that maketh Catholike to be estemed and not Catholike that giueth authoritie to truth Wherefore seeing it were better to proue your Church to be Catholike then to boast that it is so called to disproue our Church so to be then to say it is not so called The best way for you is to recant The 21. article conteyneth but one demande 1 Moreouer I aske of the Protestants whether in that time in which they holde the true church to haue bene hidden or lost the people that learned this article of their Creede I beleue the Catholike church was bounde to goe from that church which they sawe and taught them both the article and all other thinges touching their faith and by which they were Christened and receyued all other sacraments and commodities of saluation whether they were bounde I say to beleue this vnknowen and close Congregation which they coulde neuer come vnto nor by which they euer receiued or coulde receiue any benefit and so forsake that church by whom and in whom they receiued both their faith and sacraments Shew me therefore that the Christian men of these dayes were charged to beleeue any other church than that which taught them the article of the church and baptized them and I recant THis demande is like a drunken mans dreame hauing neither heade nor foote whether they shoulde beleue the church was lost whether they shoulde beleue the church that was vnknowen to them c. But if your demande haue any sense in it This is my aunswere The church was neuer lost but hidden from the eyes of the worlde Therefore if the people that where taught that article To beleue the Catholike church and were baptized to your church vnderstood that this church was not the Catholike church which was so commonly called but that God had a secret Congregation which was in deed the true Catholike church they were bound to forsake your church and to beleue the secret Congregation for if a man had ben baptized
benedicta agni videlicet immaculati qui tollis peccatum mundi potare de fonte pietatis tuae qui per lanceam militis de latere emanauit crucifixi Christi domini nostri vt consolati exultent in laude gloria tua sancta This in English we besech the most holy father for the soules of all faithfull departed that this high and greate sacrament of piety may be vnto them helth and salfty for euer ioye release and perpetuall refreshing O my Lorde God geue them this daye greate and perfect comfort of thee which art the bread that came downe from heauen and geuest life to the worlde Let them take ioye of thy holy and blessed flesh that is to saye of the lambe that taketh awaye the sinnes of the worlde Geue them to drinke of the springe of thy piety which by the pricke of the souldiers speare did aboundantly ishue out of the side of our Sauiour Christ and Lorde crucified that they being so comforted may reioyse in thy laude and glory euerlastingly To be brieefe all the Christian worlde agreeing as Isiodorus saith vpon one waye for the celebration of diuine mysteries maketh intercession for the faithfull departed that by the blessed sacrifice they maye obteine pardon and remission of their sinnes 7 It is a world to see that you haue nothing in a manner but forged euidence to proue the antiquitie of prayer for the deade in publicke seruice of the Church Who is so ignoraunt in antiquitie but he that will needes be obstinate that knoweth not those preparatories to that masse to be none of S. Ambrose his doings Otherwise it were not harde to proue that by the name of sacrifice he meaneth thankes geuing for the sacrifice of Christ as the maner of that vnpropre speach was to terme the holy sacrament which is but the seale of our saluation and not the matter thereof it selfe To be briefe what so euer Isidorus sayth if all the worlde agreed that intercession and sacrifice should be offered for the deade seeing it disagreeth from the worde of God and the practise of the primitiue Church so long as it followed the rule of Gods worde it is no whit to be regarded 8 For I assure the good reader that all realmes which nowe by Gods grace are in true faith and their Christianitie continuing or else before haue bene and now by schisme doe forsake the same that all those nations as they receiued one faith so in substance they haue euer agreed vniformely in order of seruice which they receiued at their first conuersion from the way of gentilitie by the good prouision of such as wrought vnder God in their happy turne to the Christian faith and religion The same men that brought in the faith of Iesus with all brought in this way of worshipping Christ in the same faith take away then this order of worship and solemne supplication which they planted thou must needes ouerthrowe the faith which they taught also This I say was euer found in the celebration of the fearefull mysterie of Christes body and blood besides the oblation of that holy host for the quicke and dead both namely for certaine and generally for all departed in Christ a solemne prayer and supplicatiō VVhich no doubt Christ instituted at his last supper which the holy Ghost afterward secretly suggested to the Apostles which they againe faithfully deliuered to the nations conuerted by their preaching and to diuerse of their owne disciples by whom the same was deriued downe to our dayes taught in all nations and carefully practised of all people VVhereof we haue worthy witnesses for all countries almost For so the godly doctors Tertullian Cyprian Augustine both taught and worshipped in Africke the same doth Hierom and Damascene in Syria Origen and Athanasius in Egypte Denyse the auncient and Bernarde in Fraunce Chrysostome in Thrase Basill and his brethern in Cappadocia Ambrose and Gregory the greate in Italy Augustine our apostle and Bede in our countrie of England with the rest of all nations baptized whome I named before and might doe yet a number what shoulde I say a numbre all that euer were counted Catholikes since the beginning were of the same sense in that cause And to name the residue where these do not serue it were lost labour For whome they can not moue I can not tell what maye perswade him in any matter Or if he dare not bestow his credit on these mens doinges whome maye he salfely trust If the communion and faithfull fellowship of so many godly and gracious men so vniformely consenting both in the teaching and practising of this matter can not sattell and quiet a mans conscience who can appeace his disquieted vnsteadfast minde and cogitation If in the construing of Gods word and scriptures so many of such graue iudgement of so approued wisedome of so passing learning of such earnest studie in tryall of the trueth of so vertuous a life of so heauenly a gifte and grace in the expounding of Gods worde maye not be salfely followed in this our search whome shoulde we follow or to whome shoulde the simple addicte them selues in so greate a turmoyle of learned men one sorte craking so fast of scripture and the other sorte when the matter commes to triall alleaging so many with so auncient and graue testimony for the true meaning of the same to which I saye is it wisedome to geue consent and credit if not to such as faithfully both followe and recite the scripture with the agreement of the worlde for the true sense thereof S. Augustine writing against Parmenianus the Donatiste much woundereth in that cleere light of trueth and the Churches doctrine the heretikes coulde be blinde or not see the euidence of that which all the worlde but them selues sawe And in many places he reckeneth the most horrible punishment in the worlde to be the cecity and blindenesse which God striketh the stubborne mans hearte with all in forsaking the fellowship of the Churches children But he that considereth the processe of our cause maye a thousand times more maruaill and feare Gods heuy iudgement in the blinding of the disobedient mens heartes and senses for sinne If they them selues were of their consciences examined what els they would wishe for the triall of any doubt I am sure they coulde name no one point nor any meanes in the worlde which our cause woulde not suffer and admitte For by what waye so euer any trueth in Gods Church was seuerally in the auncient times auouched against the aduersary heretike I am sure we haue the same with the aduauntage And for this last point of prayers in the Masses of all nations it is so euident that no man can gaine saye it and so generally practised that the vsage of praying coulde in no matter euer so cleerely set out the certaintie of our belefe as in this 8 If you will take M. Allens assurance in so weighty a matter that vseth so commonly to
arme our selues against the like aduersaires of trueth with his minde in such other points of weight as in his dayes were not doubted of which yet might fall in question by the contentious wittes of many that can not quiet them selues in the holsome doctrine of Christes Church Amongest other things what this holy mans minde was concerning the vtility vsage of prayers and sacrifice for the deade and who were the institutors thereof thou shall now heare I will recite but a parte of his heauenly talke though the whole make wholy for our purpose Although sayth this holy doctour he that Christianly is hense in faith departed be hanged in the ayer and his body vnburied yet after thy prayers made to God sticke not to light lampe and taper at his sepulchre for these thinges be not onely acceptable to God but are rewarded For the oyle and waxe be to him as an holocaust or a sacrifice to be consumed by fire but that vnbloudy hoste is a propitiation and remission to the partie It may seeme by his wordes that when by occasion of punishment or otherwise any person was vnburied yet there was made some hearse or monumēt where his freinds lighted tapers as they doe at this daye and procured the holy Masse which Athanasius calleth the Vnbloudy hoste or sacrifice to be celebrated in his behalfe for so I take that when he sayth that a man being hong in the ayer may haue tapers and Masse at his sepulchre though some seeke an other meaninge which may well stande too and it skilleth not for our purpose for so much is plaine that in Athanasius his dayes the sacrifice was called and counted propitiatory euen for the deade But nowe a litle afterwarde in the same oration he instruteth vs for the first authors and institutors of this vsage in the vnbloudy sacrifice and in the burialls of Christian men All these holy thinges sayth he the Apostles of Christ those heauenly preachers and scholars of our Lorde the first orderers of our sacrifice charged to be obserued in the memories and anniuersaires of the departed c. he calleth the Apostles Curatores Sacrificiorum as you woulde saye men appointed to take ordre for all thinges perteyning to the solemne ministerie of the greate and high misterie As in the Psalme the spirituall gouernours are named Ordinatores testamenti Dei super sacrificia The prouisours of Gods testament touching the sacrifices The residue of his holy wordes thou may finde in Damascens oration of the departed where he recyteth both the Gregories of the Greeke church S. Denyse and S. Chrysostom too which writers doe rather serue my turne nowe then the Latines because they may put vs out of doubt for the vsage of the Greeke and other Churches which afterwarde by schisme fell together from the true worshippe of God into diuers errors That we may knowe those same countries vnder the gouernment of these excellent blessed men to haue obserued the same things which to their owne eternall miserie and decaye of their Church and countries they afterwarde contemned For their dissension and diuision both in this point others of no lesse importaunce hath procured Gods vengeaunce so much that nowe they haue almost no Church at all as we may haue right good cause to feare what will become of vs that followe their steppes in such pointes as in them haue duely deserued Gods greuous plaques 4 When you name Athanasius and thinke we shoulde be so sore afrayd of his name you haue good reason for you allege nothing else of him but his name I haue often tolde you Damascens report eyther for his corrupt iudgement or his cracked credit is nothing regarded of vs And euen the authoritie of Athanasius without the worde of God is the authoritie of god And as Augustine sayth of Cyprian we count not all his writing for canonicall Scriptures but we iudge them by the canonicall Scriptures The creede commonly called Athanasius creede although it be very godly and agreeable to the holy Scriptures yet by the iudgement of the best learned was complyed by some later writer then Athanasius As for the plague of the Greeke Church which M. Allen iudgeth to haue fallen vpon them for their departing from the Church of Rome he iudgeth both falsely and vnreasonably For what schisme was the Church of Africa first plaged by the Vandales that were Arians and afterward vtterly subuerted by the Saracens I doubt not but iustly for their sinnes but not for leauing the Romish Church 5 Amongest other for that Chrysostoms authority is exceding graue I will let you see his opinion for the institution of these beneficiall relieuinges of the departeds paine These be his wordes Let vs sieke out all meanes whereby we may best helpe our brethern departed let vs for their sakes bestowe the most present remedie that is to saye almes and oblation for thereby to them ensueth great commoditie gaine and profit for it was not rashly nor without greate cause prouided and to Gods Church by his disciples full of wisedome deliuered and decried that in the dreadfull misteries there shoulde be especiall prayers made by the priest for all those that sleepe in faith For it is a singular benefit to them These were Chrysostoms wordes whereby not onely the trueth of the cause and first authors of the practise be opened but that there is wounderfull benefite to the parties for whome prayers be so made in the holy sacrifice The which thing our forefathers well knewe when they were so earnest after their departure to haue a memory at the holy altar Now adayes heresie hath cankered euen the very deuotion of Catholikes who although they thinke it to be true that Gods Church teacheth herein yet the zele of procuring these meanes is nothing so great as the importaunce of the cause requireth But if they note well those carefull admonitions of all these blessed fathers they shall perceiue that euery time that Christes holy bloude is represented vnto God in the Masse for the departed they feele a present benefite and release of their paines they doe reioyse sayth holy Athanasius when the vnbloudy hoste is offered for them The old fathers to put a difference betwixt the sacrificing of Christes owne body vpon the crosse and the same vpon the altar in the Church doe lightly terme this way of offering the vnbloudy sacrifice and the thinge offered which is Christes owne blessed body they call likewise the host vnbloudy And Chrysostome neuer putting any doubt of the first authors of offering for the deade proueth that it is exceding beneficiall to the deceased because the Apostles full of Gods spirite and wisedome woulde else neuer with such care haue commaunded this holy action to be done for them A lasse a lasse fo◠our deare freindes departed that they must lacke this comforte But wo euerlasting to them that are the cause of so much miserie 5 Chrysostome can no more proue that
principle as certaine as the first That the spirite of God hath a meaning in the scriptures which is not to be sought out of the scriptures in the opinions of deceiuable men but onely in the scriptures where is nothing but the spirite of trueth These 2. commaundements serch the scriptures and trie the spirites teach how to attaine to certainety of trueth For the scriptures are not vnderstood but by the spirite and the spirites are not tryed but by the scriptures Therefore that the spirite maye declare his owne meaning one place of scripture must be expounded by an other All other ordinary meanes and healpes of wit learning knowledge of tongues diligeÌ„ce in hearing reading and praying are subordinate and seruing to this search and tryall And who so obserueth this serch and tryall most precisely shall come to the knowledge of the trueth most certainely And who so euer is negligent in this search and tryall though he haue otherwise neuer so many and excellent graces and giftes may easely be deceiued yea euen when he thinketh he followeth the authority of the scriptures I coulde alleage for confirmation of this truth the testimony of diuers of the auncient fathers which if they had alwayes followed that which some times they so highly commended they should not so lightly haue passed ouer some thinges and other thinges so slenderly haue mainteined But my thinkes the testimony of the Pope shoulde be a per se with all Papistes The Pope him selfe in his canon lawe for Cayphas some times doth prophecy hath allowed this to be the onely waye to expound the scriptures Affirming that no where else but euen out of the scriptures themselues the true sense of the scriptures is to be taken Ascribed to Clemens dist 37. cap. Relatum Lex Dei cum legitur non secundum propriam ingenij virtutem vel intelligentiam legatur vel doceatur Sunt enim multa verba in scripturis diuinis quae possunt trahi ad eum sensum quem sibi vnus quisque sparte praesumpserit sed non oportet non enim sensum extrinsecus alienuÌ„ extraneum debetis quaerere vt quoquo modo ipsum ex sâ—ripturarum authoritate confirmetis sed ex ipsis scripturis sensum capere veritatis oportet When the lawe of God is reade let it not be reade or tought after the force or vnderstanding of a mans owne witte For their be many wordes in the holy scriptures which maye be drawen to such sence as euery man of his owne heade shal presume to make but you may not doe so For you ought not to seeke forth without any forayne or strange sence that you may confirme it by any meanes by authority of the scriptures but you must take the sence of trueth out of the scriptures them selues And thus much for the true vnderstanding of the scriptures and now to your false superstition First I deny that any of the auncient fathers in Christ his time or scholers to his Apostles or within one or two hundreth yeares after Christ except one that had it of Montanus the heretike as he had more thinges beside in any one worde mainteined your cause for purgatory or prayers for the deade Secondly of them that mainteined prayers for the deade the most confessed they had it not out of the scriptures but of tradition of the Apostles and custome of the Church therefore they are not to be compared vnto vs in better vnderstaÌ„ding of the scriptures for that point which they denyed to be receiued of the scriptures Thirdly those of the auncient fathers that agreed with you in any parte of your assertion for none within foure hundreth yeares was wholy of your error notwithstanding many excellent giftes that they had yet mainteined other errors beside that and about that discented one from an other and sometime the same man from him selfe and that is worst of all from manifest trueth of the holy Scriptures Therefore neither is their erroneous interpretation in this matter to be receiued nor M. Allens wise iudgement of vs to be regarded An aunsvvere to such arguments as the heretikes doe frame of the holy scriptures not vvell vnderstanded against the practise of Gods Church in praying for the deade or the doctrine of Purgatory CAP. XVI 1 THerefore to stoppe their waye at euery turne and because they talke so fast of scripture full fayne woulde I heare what scriptures they haue that make either expressely agaynst purgatory and prayers for the deade or else by any one learned man in all the worlde was euer expounded for any such sense And loe now good reader what scriptures they alleage that can abâ—de nothing but scripture First out of Ecclesiastes The tree whether it fall to the south or the north it lyeth euer where it lighteth Then they alleage out of S. Matthews Gospell that there be two wayes one to bring to heauen and the other leading straight to hell And then out of the second to the Corinthians they bring in howe we must all stande before the iudgement seat of Christ there to receiue eche of vs according to our workes and life and that by other mens labour our state can not be ameÌ„ded Againe they allege this sentence of the Apocalypse Beati mortui c. blessed be the deade that dye in our Lorde for after that the spirite sayeth that they shall reste from trauells All which textes and the like of that sorte make no more against purgatory then they doe against hell or heauen excepte that as Anaxagoras the philosopher saide all thinges were in euery thinge so these diuines can finde euery texte of scripture to make for what purpose they liste and yet if the Catholikes alleage a numbre of scriptures and them with the minde and iudgement of the whole worlde that doubteth not but they proue that for which they be recited yet they set light by them and impudently with clamors beare men in hande that they haue no scriptures at all VVhich thinges as they smell of much arrogancie in all men so in these folke that so malâ—pertly controwle others where them selues haue no scripture at all it is vntolerable CAP. XVI 1 THis chapter is but pro forma tantum to make a shew of a confutation where neither the tenth parte of our arguments are rehearsed nor those that are named with any couller of reason and lest of all with authority of scriptures are confuted First he will allow vs but 4. textes of scripture because he will not take paines to wrest any more And those make nothing for vs except all thinges be in euery thinge as Anaxagoras said It should seeme M. Allen that you your selfe dreamed so with Anaxagoras else would you not finde purgatory in euery one of them which we saye is in none of them but rather excluded by them all But who can prescribe the deuill a measure in lying when he is disposed to lye we haue no scriptures at all the Catholikes
whome the papistes counte no parte of their church but schismatikes conuerted the Moscouites first of all vnto the profession of the name of Christ which yet continue in their religion being neither the true faith nor yet popish religion As for the popish church as it is certeine that it hath peruerted and corrupted all partes of the Latine or Westerne Church with Idolatry and false religion so it shal be harde for the papistes to proue that it hath conuerted any Nation from Gentility to the popish religion except some partes of Germanie and them by force of armes rather than by preaching and reaching as appeareth by the conuersion of Liuonia Anno Domini 1200. of Prussia Anno Domini 1254. and of Lithuania Anno Domini 1386. wherefore I conclude that seeing I haue shewed that our Church holding the true doctrine of the Apostles is that which conuerted all nations to true religion and that the popish church hath not conuerted any people to true religion nor all people to the profession of the name of Christ this chalenger whosoeuer he be do the recant The second article conteyneth 4. demandes 1 I aske of him what Church it was which hath induced the Christian people through the whole worlde to geue most humble credit in all points to the holy bookes of the Byble I Aunswere it was the Church of Christ and not the Popish church which hath commended the bookes of holy Scripture to be beleued of all true Christians where soeuer they be although it be the office of the holy Ghost to open the hartes of men and to forme them that they may beleue the scripture to be true like as it is the office of the scripture or worde of God to trie and examine whether it be the spirite of God that perswadeth vs to beleue any thing so the spirite beareth witnesse to the worde and the worde to the spirite As for the popish church it coulde not induce the Christian people to geue credit to the scripture in all pointes because she is contrarie to the scripture in many pointes and euen in the cheefest pointes of Christian Religion namely in pointes concerning the glorie of God and the saluation of mankinde geuing the glory of God to dead men and dumbe Images and denying the mercy of God pourchased by the onely sacrifice of Christes death to be the onely cause of mans saluation Finally seeing it is manifest by the aunswere to the first article that the popish church did not conuerte all nations to the profession of the Christian faith it is euident thereby that the popish church did not induce all them that are called Christians to geue credit to the bookes of the holy Bible as this chalenger woulde haue it to be thought 2 VVhat Church hath had the discerning seuering of them from other writinges of all sortes THe Church of Christ hath not an absolute authority to allow or refuse bookes of the scripture but a iudgment to discerne true writinge from counterfaicts the word of God of infallible verity from the writing of men which might erre this iudgement she hath not of her selfe but of the holy Ghost as for the popish Church it can not be said to haue this iudgemēt of discerning the scripture of God from other writings not only because she is so blind that she can not discerne betwene the Canonical bookes of the scripture from the Apocrypha writings as appereth by receauing the bookes of the Machabees Ecclesiasticus c. to be of equall authoritie with the bookes of the Law Psalmes c. but also because she is so presumptuous as to compel men to beleue that Customes and traditions writinges of doctors decrees of Popes and Councells are equall with the authoritie of God his worde yea are of force to alter and change the lawe of God and the institution of Christ set forth vnto vs in the scripture And although she boast that she receaueth all the bookes of scripture yet this proueth no more that she is the Church of Christ than was the churches of the Arrians Donatistes Nouatians Euthychans other heretikes which receiued the Bible as well as the Popish church 3 VVhat Church hath had the custodie of them and most safely hath preserued them for the necessary vse of God his people and from the corruption of aduersaries as well of Iewes as heretikes of all sortes THe prouidence of God hath alwayes preserued the Scripture both from the violence of tyrants from the falshoode of heretikes and hath neuer suffred the true Church to be destitute of the necessarie vse thereof But the popish church hath not kept the scripture for the necessary vse of the people which hath so kept it in an vnknowen tongue that the people coulde haue no vse much lesse the necessary vse thereof wherefore if this be a note of the Catholike Church to kepe the worde of God for the necessarie vse of God his people it is plaine that the popish church is not the Catholike Church which hath kept the scripture so that God his people coulde haue no vse thereof And if the only custodie of the scripture from corruption of heretikes be a sure note of the Church why is not the Greeke Church the Catholike Church which vnto this day hath kept the scripture as safely as the popish church why are not other Estern Churches of Asia which neuer acknowledged the Pope or popish religion true Churches which likewise haue preserued the scripture as we haue seen of late that the newe Testament is printed in the Syrian tongue at themperours charges for the encrease of Christian faith among them And finally why are not the Iewes the Catholike Church which haue kept the old Testament in Hebrue more faithfully than euer the Papistes And because they boast of safe preseruing of the scriptures all men that are learned in the tongues can testifie in how corrupt a Latin translation they haue kept the scriptures both of the olde and of the new Testament 4 And let the Protestant declare to me that their Congregation hath had from time to time or euer had right herein or any other Church sauing the Catholike Church and I recant OVr Congregation which is the body of Christ hath euer had both right and possession of the inestimable treasure of the word of Christ her heade as appeareth by this that our Church and Congregation beleueth nothing but that she learneth in it acknowledgeth that all thinges profitable to saluation are sufficiently conteined in it and finally in all thinges submitteth her selfe to the iudgemēt of it But the popish church which beleueth many thinges contrarie to the scripture teacheth many thinges beside the scripture necessary to saluation and refuseth to haue her faith doctrine and ceremonies to be iudged by the scripture neither hath neither euer had any right to the scripture though she haue neuer so many bookes of them in possession Wherefore these thinges considered this chalenger
doth recant The third article conteyneth 5. demandes 1 Shew me why our common knowen Church did not as well corrupt the text of the Testament as the true religion conteyned in the same THere may be diuers good reasons shewed why your Church commonly knowen to be the church of Antichrist did not as well corrupt the text of the Testament as the true religion conteined therein First because she coulde not the copies thereof being so many by the prouidence of God dispersed throughout the worlde Secondly because she thought it not so needefull hauing other meanes to worke her deuilish deuise For although she coulde not corrupt the scripture yet it made the lesse matter because she founde meanes to diminish and controll the authority therof by aduancing decrees of men Popes and Councells to be equall or of greater authoritie than the scripture Thirdly because she woulde be lesse in feare to be reproued by the scripture she prouided that the knowledge thereof shoulde be hidden from the vnlearned people by a strange tongue and from the learned by the tedious mazes of questions deuised by her Canonistes and Sententiaries Fourthly because she submitted all interpretation of the scripture to her owne iudgement and therefore woulde not be controlled by the iudgement thereof but woulde alwayes expound it as it liked her best As appeareth by Ockam and Duns who though they confesse that transubstantiation seemeth to them contrary to the scripture and reason yet they beleued it because of the authoritie of the church and for none other cause These are the reasons why the Romish church did not as well corrupt the text of the Testamēt as the true Religion And yet how corrupt that Latine translation is which they woulde needes thrust vpō vs is sufficiently knowen to all learned men euen in such texts as are the most coulerable places for the defence of Popish doctrine I will geue one example for all They alleage the text 1. Cor. 10. Qui stat videat ne cadat He that standeth let him take heede he fall not against the certainetie of faith whereas the Greeke hath not he that standeth but he that thinketh he standeth let him take heede he fall not Thus the popish church cannot altogether excuse her selfe from corrupting of the text of the Testament whether it was of fraude or of ignorance or of negligence the Lorde knoweth 2 Shew me why she kept not so safely and faithfully the true sense of God his word as she preserued the word it selfe BEcause it was against her owne estimation and profit which are the chiefe endes for which popish Prelates mainteyne popish religion Take away the Popes prerogatiue which is contrary to the sense of God his word downe goe Cardinalls Legates Prothonotaries downe goeth all the Court of Rome take away workes of supererogation which are contrary to the Scripture downe goe Abbeys Priories and Chantries Take away the sacrifice of the Masse Purgatory which are contrary to the word of God downe goeth the estimation and gaynes of all the popish clergie And this is the cause why the popish church kept not so safely and faithfully the true sense of God his word as she preserued the word it selfe although she preserued not the word it self in such safetie as becommed the Church of Christ. 3 Shew me why we should beleue the Papistes as you terme them for the word it self and rather you Protestants thā them for the meaning of the word WE doe not chalenge credit to our selues in any poynt so presumptuously as the Papistes that men must beleue it because we affirme it But because we proue it to be true by the worde of god And therefore for the meaning of the word you should beleue vs rather than them because our groundes proues are better then theirs or else we require not to be beleued better than they 4 Shew me why you beleued our Church telling you this to be God his booke will not credit her auouching this to be the true and vndoubted sense of the same booke IF we had no better ground to perswade vs of the authoritie of God his booke than the testimony of your Church you may be sure we would not beleue it But because we haue most stedfast assurance of God his spirite for the authority of that booke with the testimony of the true Church in all ages If you say it is God his booke we beleue you not because you say so but because we know it to be true But if you bring out a false sense we beleue you not because we know it to be false are able to proue by the word of God that it is contrary to the meaning of the holy Ghost To be plaine with you we geue as much credit to your Church as to the deuill When the deuill sayth it is written He shall giue his angells charge ouer thee and with their handes they shall hold thee vp that thou dash not thy foote against a stone We beleue that this is the worde of god But when he auoucheth this to be the meaning of it that we may cast downe our selues from a Church steeple without daunger we doe not beleue him because we know this sense is contrary to an other Scripture which sayth Thou shalt not tempt the Lord thy God. So when you say these wordes are the Scripture of God This is my body We beleue it because we knowe it to be true But when you say this is the meaning of these wordes This bread is turned into my naturall bodye we beleue you not because it is contrary to all places of Scripture which proue the trueth of Christ his humanitie or naturall body Thus I shewe you why we beleue you if you say the Scripture is God his word namely because we know it to be true why we beleue you not saying this is the meaning of it that is because we knowe by the word of God that it is false 5 Last of all Shew me why you beleued the olde known church affirming this to be the word of God and will not beleue her affirming Luther to be an heretike shew me good reason or Scripture for these thinges and I recant IF you meane by the olde Church the primitiue Church whose testimony of the word of God we allow beleue I deny that the primitiue Church did affirme Luther to be an heretike or the doctrine that he taught which we hold to be heresie but I am able to proue that the primitiue Church from which you haue receiued the Scripture affirmeth your doctrine to be heresie your Church the Church of Antichrist But if by the old knowne Church you meane the Church of old knowne to be the Church of Antichrist which is the popish church we beleue the deuill if he speake the trueth and we beleue not an Angell comming from heauen if he bring any other Gospel than S. Paule deliuered to the Galathians Therefore when your
heretikes namely the Grecians church all other churches of Asia and Aphrica which vnto this day will not acknowledge her doctrine to be Catholike nor her authoritie to be lawefull Wherefore seeing the Popish church neither hath confuted those that are heretikes in deed nor subdued those whom she counteth to be heretikes if you be a good as your worde you recant The fiueth article conteyneth 3. demandes 1 Againe what Church is that which hath exercised by Christes appointement Discipline vpon offendors in all degrees ONely the Church of Christ by Christes appointement hath exercised true discipline vpon offendors Although by meanes of persecution she could not alwayes practise the same as she would 2 And for that purpose hath continually executed lawes and Canons Ecclesiasticall with Excommunication Degradation suspension and such like THe Church of Christ only hath had lawful authority to exercise discipline but as it is said before she hath not continually practised the same because she could not being hindered by persecution and dispersion Concerning excommunication she hath practised it according to the word of God and against such offendors as the scripture iudgeth worthy of that seuere punishment As for degradation and suspension it may be doubted what you meane by them If you vnderstand by degradation that such persons as the Church hath tried vnmeet either for doctrine or manners to execute the office of preaching and ministring the sacraments she hath displaced and reiected from that charge she hath also practised drgradation And if you meane by suspension that when the accusation of a mans doctrine or life was vncerteine that she hath willed him to cease from executing his office vntill his cause were tried either good or euill she hath also vsed suspension but if by degradation and suspension you meane those foolish and wicked ceremonies which the popish church now vseth and so termeth I deny that euer the true Church of Christ had to do with such degradations and suspensions 3 Proue me this geere to procede from Protestants or from any other Church than the Catholike and I recant IT is proued before that true discipline belongeth to the true Church wherof we are a part which Church is sufficiently proued to be the spouse of Christ because she is ruled in all thinges by his onely voice And therefore all congregations of heretikes which departe from the true worde of God though they take vpon them to exercise discipline by excommunication or otherwise it is not to be regarded and lest of all the Popish church where remaineth nothing of discipline and excommunication but the very names for what call you popish discipline is not that it which they vse in Lent whisking men on the heades and women on the handes with white roddes which they them selues call discipline Or is it the seuere punishment that they vse against offendors by excommunication suspension interdighting c. First it is manifest they haue no excommunication by Christes appointment for neither it is executed by the persons appointed by Gods worde nor against such offendors only as God his word appointeth for wheras our Sauiour Christ appointeth the order of that discipline to the Congregation of such as are wise godly and carefull of mens health which first shal labor by fatherly admonition and wholesome exhortation to bring the offendors to repentance whome if they refuse to heare they are to be reputed for hethens and publicanes the Pope contrariwise referreth the same to profane and vnreligious officers which are more desirous to gaine the fees of absolution than by bringing the party to repentance to saue him from excommunication Moreouer whereas by Gods worde excommunication is the last and most greuous punishment that the Church can enioyne against any of whom there is any hope of saluation and therefore ought not to be practised but for haynous offences the Popish church maketh it serue for euery trifling matter yea for pettie debts and all then commeth in interdightings suspensions of places as churches and townes yea whole realmes for one mans faulte what likelinesse hath this vnto the discipline of Christes church set forth in the scriptures and practised by the fathers with what face can you Papistes affirme they haue discipline in their Church whē all penaunces for most horrible offences may be bought out for money and an open market thereof set vp at Rome with the prices rated what men must pay for euery thing that they buye as absolution for him that hath killed his father or mother brother sister or wife Turones 4. Ducat 1. Ca. line 5.8 For an heretike before he haue abiured 36. Turones and 9. ducates For a witche 6. Turones 2. ducates For a priest that is a Sodomite or hath lyen with brute beastes 36. Turones 9. ducates For a nonne that hath bene a common whore both within and without her Abby with dispensation that she may be able to receiue any dignitie in her order yea to be Abbesse 36. Turones 9. ducates And so for all other offences with dispensations inhibitions rehabilities licences relaxations commutations confirmation perinde Valeres Marcamas and the deuill and all for money wherefore except you be to impudent to acknowledge this to be Christian discipline be as good as your promise and recant The sixth article conteyneth 3. demandes 1 Againe from what Church did all the solemne ceremonies and obseruations all festiuall dayes all fastes all distinctions and varieties of seruice by diuersities of seasons and times of the yeare proceede FIrst you must vnderstande that we detest and abhorre all your beggarly ceremonies which you counte holy and solemne obseruations for we know that God is not to be worshipped with such thinges but that the true worshippers must worship him in spirit veritie Iohn 4. And seeing we know God or rather are knowen of him we will not regarde the weake and beggarly elementes because they are destitute of God his worde which onely i◠able to geue them strength and estimation as for your festiuities in the honour of creatures we doe likewise abhorre them ▪ we honour the Sainctes as S. Augustine sayeth for imitation but we do not worship them for Religion De vera Religione cap. 55. Where he also saith Quare honoramus eos charitate non seruitute We honor them with loue and not with seruice And as he doth often affirme that it is Idolatry to builde churches in the honour of Sainctes so is it as great Idolatry to institute festiuall dayes in the fauour of the same Sainctes As for the festiuall dayes that were vsed in the primitiue Church although they might haue bene omitted without any hurt of Christian Religion yet were they not kept in the honour of creatures as they are of the Papistes but only for the memorie of the Martyrs and other Saincts that their good life might be followed Your fastes are also abhominable for they are nothing else but abstinence from meates created of God to be receiued with
but he was of our Church and Religion And I reade that king Edward the third both in his Parliament holden Anno Domini 1371. and at other times with diuers other noble men defended his cause in so much that so long as he liued all the popish byshops coulde do him no harme yet did he openly inueigh against the Pope calling him Antichrist and all popish doctrine without any couller or dissimulatioÌ„ both in the vniuersitie of Oxeford where he was reader and also in his sermons abroade as appeareth by his bookes and English homilies which yet are coÌ„mon to be seene with vnlesse he had bene supported and maintained by the kinge and other potentates coulde neuer haue continued so long as he did Further haue you not hearde of Zisca and Procopius two mighty Capitaines which defended the Bohemians from the tyrannie both of the Emperour the Pope and almost all the Princes of Germanie For what cause did Paule the second Anno Domini 1466. condemne George a noble and a worthy Prince king of Bohemia for an heretike and depriued him of his kingdome was it not for defending the Protestantes in his dominion Thus you see that some Princes and Potentates haue not onely offered but haue in deed taken in hand to defend our church which you thought vnable to be shewed wherfore I chalenge your promise you must recante The 11. article is so confuse that it is harde to bring it into any certeine numbre of demandes 1 Againe I requier of the Protestants to declare by good histories or by reasonable likelihoode when the true church as they compt theirs decayed I Answer euen in the Apostles time there arose many heresies which did not a litle trouble the Church but immediatly after the Apostles time while the fathers of the church were earnestly occupied in resisting of horrible heresies by the craft of Satan some errors and abuses crept into the true Church of Christ which at the first because they were small and men occupied in greater matters were either not espied or not regarded as may be knowen by the writinges of Iustinus Martyr and Irenaeus two of the most auncient writers sence the Apostles time Iustinus was in this error that he thought that the Angells lusted after women and therefore were turned into Deuills It seemeth also that the Church in his time was in some error about second mariages and diuorcements Irenaeus affirmeth that our Sauiour Christ liued here 50. yeares which he sayeth was receyued of them that heard it euen of the Apostles mouthes Also both he and Papias which was before him and was the disciple of S. Iohn are charged by S. Ieronym in Catalogo Script Eccl. to haue held this error that Christ should raigne a thousand yeares after the Resurrection here in the flesh whereby it is manifest seeing these auncient fathers and pillers of the Church were thus stayned with errors that the Church in their time could not be free from the same And so it is euident that the true Church decayed immediatly after the Apostles times 2 VVhat yeare the Religion of the Papistes came in and preuayled ALthough many abuses and corruptions were entred into the church of Christ immediatly after the Apostles time which the deuill planted as a preparatiue for his eldest sonne Antichrist Yet we may well say that the religion of the Papistâ—s came in and preuailed that yeare in which the Pope first obteyned his Antichristian exaltation which was in the yeare of our Lord 607. when Boniface the third for a great summe of mony obteyned of Phocas the trayterous murtherer and adulterous Emperour that the Bishop of Rome should be called and counted the head of all the Church Since that time that deuilish heresie hath alwayes increased in error vntill the yeare of our Lord 1414. in which the Councell of Constance decreed to robbe the people of the Sacrament of Christ his blood From this time it hath againe decaied being mightely subdued by the bright beames of the Gospell shining in the world and at the length shall be vtterly destroyed 3 VVhether all their true Church was so soundly sleeping that none could preach against it as it first entred WHen the coÌ„ming of Antichrist was in all power of lying signes and wonders in so much that if it were possible the very elect should be deceiued and a general departing from the faith was foreshewed and the Church to be driuen into the wildernes what maruell were it if none of our Church could preach against it as it first entred yet because you speake of the first entring of popish religion which dependeth chiefly vpon the Popes authoritie you shall heare that when it first began to aduaunce it selfe there wanted not some either to preach or write against it When Victor bishop of Rome about the yeare of our Lord 200. passed the bondes of his authoritie in excommunicating of all the Churches of Asia many bishops withstoode him and especially Irenaeus bishop of Lyons and Policrates of Ephesus as witnesseth Eusebius libro 5. cap. 25. Eccle. S. Cyprian also reproueth Cornelius bishop of Rome for that he was moued by threatning of heretikes to receiue their letters did not send them backe into Africa to their own bishop lib. 1. Ep. 3. Also when Stephanus bishop of Rome was bold to communicate with Basilides and Martialis two Spaniards that were iustly excommunicated and deposed by the bishops of their owne prouince sought to restore them Cyprian and his felow bishops of Aphrica being required to giue their aduise gaue counsell that in no wise they shoulde be receiued not a litle blaming Stephanus that beinge far of and ignorant of their cause he would take vpon him to defend such wicked men lib. 1. Ep. 4. Likewise when the same Stephanus threatned excommunication to Helenus and Firmilianus and almost all the Churches of Asia because they thought that such as were baptized by heretikes shoulde be baptized againe he was misliked by Dionysius of Alexandria and diuers other godly bishops as appeareth by his Epistle wrytten to Xystus Euseb. lib. 7. cap. 5. Cyprian also reproueth him very sharply for the same opinion accusing him of presumption and contumacy Epi. ad Pompeium and in his epistle to Quintinus he sayth plainly that Peter himselfe was not so arrogant nor so presumptuous that he would say he held the primacy that other men should obey him as his inferiors When Anastasius Innocentius Zozimus Caelestinus bishops of Rome all on a row chalenged prerogatiue ouer the bishops in Aphrica by forginge a false Canon of the Nicene Councel they were withstoode by all the bishops of Aphrica who decreed that none vnder paine of excommunicatioÌ„ should appeale to any bishop beyond the sea Concil Aphrican cap. 92. and that the bishop of the chiefe see should not be called prince of priestes or highest priest but onely bishop of the chiefe see Conc. Aph. cap. 6. When Celestinus byshop of Rome dealt hardly with the
of the Arrians and being brought vp by them had learned that article to beleue the Catholike church which the Arrians would expound to be them selues if afterward by God his helpe this man vnderstood that the church of the Arrians was not the catholike church as he was taught it was but that Athanasius and a few other that were banished and persecuted were the true Catholike church he was bounde to leaue the Arrians commonly called the church and to ioyne him selfe with the secret banished hidde and persecuted church of Christ. But as for your Popish church in that time of blindenesse and error taught not the people that article nor any other but kept them backe from the knowledge as well of that article as of all other thinges that were necessary to their saluation for you taught them nothing els but to pronounce and that full il fauoredly like popingeys certeine latine wordes which they vnderstoode no more than stockes or stones So that the people had no instruction of you no not of the name of God in many places but that they receiued by vncertaine talke of their parentes as it were from hande to hande for how many thousand parishes are there in Englande that within these 60. yeares woulde declare that they neuer hearde sermon in their life As for that they hearde of their seruice they learned as much of it as of the ringing of their belles which was a sounde without vnderstanding Therefore you may be ashamed to speake of teaching the people their belefe and all thinges necessary for saluation when you haue counted it heresie to learne their creede in English or to reade the scripture in English in which is conteined all thing necessary to be knowen for euerlasting saluation Finally because you requier me to shew you that the Christian people of those dayes were bounde to beleue any other church than that which taught them the article of the church and baptised them I trow I will so shew it you that for both your eares you dare not deny it how saye you The Christian people of the Greeke church which were taught by the Greeke church that article of the church and by the same Greeke church were baptised whether ought they to beleue any other church but the Greeke church If you say no then you acknowledge the Greeke church to be the true church which denieth the Popes authoritie if you saye yea Then you are welcome home you recant The 22. article although it be very confuse yet it conteyneth in effect 3. demandes 1 I aske also whether any man for the space of that 1000. yeres of blindenes could be saued out of that secrete and small Church which they say was the true Church if they aunswer me there might be some saued with our Sacraments and in the Communion or fellowship of the Papistes out of the Protestants Church then there was a way to heauen out of Gods Church if they say that none could be saued by our Sacraments out of their close Church then all men yong and old perished for those yeares without any hope of mercy because they could not vnite them selues and be incorporate to that company and Congregation whereof they neuer neither hearde nor coulde by any meanes surmise Therefore let any man aliue proue vnto me that either any man could out of the true Church be saued NO man aliue that knoweth what the true Church meaneth will say that any man can be saued out of the true Church for he that is not a member of the body of Christ caÌ„ by no meanes receiue any benefit of Christ to his saluation Therefore how long so euer the true Church were hidden whether it were a thousand yeres as you beare men in hand that we should say or two thousand yeares it is not materiall this is certeyne that out of this Church none could be saued and though you count it smal as in deede in respect of the world it is but a small flocke and fewe are elected and fewe finde the streit gate of life Luke 12. Matth. 7. 20. yet is the number of it greater then mans eye commonly can discerne As when Elias thought that he only had bene left alone of the true Church God answered that he had yet reserued 7000. that neuer bowed their knee to Baal 1. Reg. 19. And as Esay declareth when the people shoulde be almost all destroyed yet a remnant should be saued which though it seemed to be small yet it should ouerflow and fill all the world with righteousnes Esa. 10. and though it shal be like a gathering of grapes when vintage is ended or the shaking of an oliue tree when men thinke they haue left noâ—hing vppon it yet there be two or three in the toppe amonge the boughes foure or fiue vnder the leaues in the highest braÌ„ches Esay 17. 24. 2 Or that any other company could be knowne for the true and onely Church but our common Catholike societie THe true Catholike Church was neuer so secrete or hidden but it might be knowne of all those that had eyes to see it whose hartes were lightened with the spirite of God and were enstructed by the worde of God that they might vnderstande the trueth and knowe the spouse of Christ from the common strompet of Antichrist 3 Or that all men were damned for a thousand yeares togither because they coulde not finde nor surmise of any other Church then that which practiseth all holy functions which Christ left for our saluation in the world and I recant WE take not vpon vs to medle with God his iudgments whom he condemneth for what causes further then the word of God teacheth vs namely that as many as haue not beleued in the onely sonne of God are condemned for their vnbeliefe other secret causes we remit to his secrete counsell and knowledge And wheras you say that the popish church practiseth all holy functions that Christ left for the saluation of his Church it is most false for first you doe not preach remission of sinnes in the bloode of Christ onely for either you preach not all or else you preach remission of sinnes in any thing rather then the onely merites of Christ as in mens owne merites workes of supererogation pardons masses beggarly ceremonies as holy water auriculer confession c. Secondly you minister not the Sacraments purely according to Christ his institution but either corrupt and defile them with mans traditioÌ„s as you do Baptisme or else cleane chauÌ„ge the vse of them as in the Lordes Supper which you make a Sacrifice an idoll a Priestes breakfast and defraude the people of the one halfe of the sacrament as though you were wiser then he that instituted it in both kindes Thirdly discipline you haue conuerted into tyranny and couetousnes reteyning nothing but the name of it alone Wherefore seeing you exercise no holy function after Christ his institution but cleane contrary to the same and doe
the cause would driue me vnto I did learne of auncient Irenaeus that such doctrine â—nd mysteries may be safely had and without all feare of errour taught by holy Priestes and Bishops Qui cum episcopatus successione charisma veritatis certum sâ—cundum placitum patâ—is accepeâ—unt VVho haue receaued with thâ—ir ordinary succession in their pastorall seat the gracious gift of vnderstanding the truth And these are they sayth he in the same place which may without all daunger to them selues and their hearers expound vnto vs the holy Scriptures Other men doubtles which this miserable age of ours seeth not that measureth all thinges by a fond flourish of learning whereof â—et there was neuer lesse store can not nor must not be so bold though their giftes were many moe study muâ—h longer then mine And to confesse the truth in deede I was somwhat loth such was my foolish feare then to fall in hand with that matter which being well and to the bottom ripped I perceaued of all other causes in the world most to touch the very sore of heresie and therefore might to me procure the hatred of such whose loue otherwise I could be content either to keepe or winne Besides that I saw the contention of the contrary part seking to make some answere to such thinges as might in this cause most greeue their mindes or marre their matter shoulde driue me from that course of study which otherwise in quietnesse I would most gladly keepe to serue truth and defende my cause which once of freedom and good will taken in hand must afterward of duety and necessitie be vpholden Notwithstanding all these thinges good reader which might most iustly hold me back yet now my friendes request the case and condition of this present time and my duety towards my mother the Church may of good reason and must of necessitie chaunge my former intent remoue my priuate study to the benefite of the common cause Therfore being at length by iust occasion wholy minded to serue as well as I could that way I thought good these late months to make a more full declaration of that thing which at my sayde friendes request I had so briefly touched before That as then when he first had it of me it onely serued him for his owne contentation the pleasuring of his singular and secret friendes and the helpe of some simple whome he knew deceyued by ouer light looking on so graue matters so nowe good Christian reader I trust it may helpe in common not onely such as haue been caried a way by the guile of heresie but other that are much subiect to the daungerous flattery of this present time with whome pleasure euer ioyned to the protestantes doctrine often more preuaileth then the preachers persuasion Be bolde to charge any of our aduersaries make he neuer so great accompt of him selfe with the force of trueth heere expresly proued both by argument and authoritie if it holde him not he shall I am sure brast out with impudencie and not lose him selfe by reason iust dealing or honestie And if it be proued to touch with safetie the poison it selfe let no man doubt to vse it for a preseruatiue in this common infection of our time and countrie For it were no reason any man shoulde practise with the poore people priuyly in such thinges as he were not hable to mainteine before their pilloures and preachers openly And for that hatered which I may procure to my selfe by mine owne trauell it shall not much moue me for I shall either be partaker thereof as a common praise in these euill dayes to most good men or els if I be not worthy so much I will learne to beare it as some parte of punishment satisfaction for my sinnes I may not bye frendship with flatterie nor mannes loue with forsaking Gods trueth Of such thinges then I will not make much reckening but my principall care is that in writing or wading in so deepe matters I keepe the streight line of the Churches truth which in the exceding rashnesse of these darke dayes a man may quickely lose And therefore to make sure I humbly submit my selfe to the iudgement of such our maisters in faith and religion as by Gods calling are made the lawefull Pastors of our soules Of whome I had rather learne my selfe then teach other if either they had occasion and opportunitie to speake or I might of reason and duetie in these miserable times holde my peace Farewell gentle Reader and if I pleasure thee by my paines let me for Christes sake be partaker of thy prayers At Antwerp the Second of May. 1565. 3 WHether this occasion of your writing were true or only pretendid it is all one to our purpose But where you commende your freinde for that he learned to beleeue first and sought to vnderstand afterwarde which you take to be the natural order of a Christian schoole if you had shewed where you learned that methode his coÌ„mendation should haue been the greater and your iudgement the weightier For we learne by Saint Paule a contrary order namely first to heare the worde of God preached and expounded and then to beleeue it Rom. 10. For God by the riches of his grace hath abounded towardes vs in all wisedome and vnderstanding and hath opened vnto vs the mysterie of his will according to his good pleasure so that after we hearde the worde of trueth the Gospell of our saluation we haue thereby beleeued and so are sealed with the holy Spirite of promise laboring and praying that those which haue receaued the first grace of knowledge and vnderstanding may daily more and more increase in the same that they may be full filled with knowledge of Gods will in all wisedom spirituall vnderstanding Col. 1. And as for that blinde faith which must be thrust vppon mens consciences to be accepted before they see what grounde it hath we leaue it as meete for sect masters and heretikes and in no wise to be admitted by the Disciples of Christ who calleth all men to heare him and vnderstand him Matt. 15. Mar. 7. But faith say you in most matters must direct reason But I say reason in all matters must be subiect to faith For the naturall man with all his reason neither doth nor can perceaue the things of the spirite of God for the eye hath not seene nor the eare hath hearde neither haue entred into the heart of man the thinges that God hath prepared for them that loue him but God hath reueiled them to vs by his spirite 1. Corinth 2. And this is the thing that deceiueth you Maister Allen which more like a maister of prophane artes then a good student of holy Diuinitie can put no difference betwene carnall reason and spirituall vnderstanding For that knowledge and vnderstanding of Gods holy mysteries conteined in his word whereuppon our faith is grounded we haue not by light of naturall reason but by reuelation and
without any further satisfaction he is to be receiued againe as appereth most manifestly in the receiuing of that Corinthian which was excommunicated of whose vnfeined repentaunce when the Apostle had intelligence he writeth againe to the Corinthians of him saying It is sufficient for that same man that he was rebuked of many but now you ought to forgeue him and comforte him that he should not be swallowed vp with ouer much heuines 2. Cor. 2. And as for the practise of the olde and puerer Church by enioyning of workes of repentaunce was that they might not be deceiued by conterfect repentaunce in stead of true and earnest reformation not to satisfie the wrath of God against sinners which is not satisfied but by the bloude of Christ but to satisfie and assure the Church as much as man might iudge of the vnfeined and hartie repentaunce of the offendour For how so euer the olde writers vse the worde of satisfaction somethinge vnproprely yet their cleare affirmation of the onely satisfaction of Christes death declareth what they vnderstoode when they vsed that terme in an other sense But this is not to be omitted that M. Allen confesseth the Papistes to haue left the olde vsage of the Church which was first to set satisfactiō and then to absolue and now of late to haue taken vp a contrary custome that is first to absolue then to enioyne penaunce This practise therefore lacketh antiquitie one of the chiefe pillers of Popery But this he sayeth is for great causes but what causes he doth not expresse it is sufficient that the Church can not erre though they doe that which is contrary to the vsage of the auncient Church without grounde of Scripture and against the commaundement of Christ. How harde Cyprian was to absolue them that were excommunicate before they had shewed great fruites of repentaunce and how carefull that the Church should not be deceiued by them that vpō counterfected penaūce required absolution appereth by many of his epistles in his Sermon De lapsis But because we shall haue a more proper place to speake of satisfaction in the next Chapter we will now follow M. Allen in this matter of excōmunicatiō 2 This punishment was euer by cutting of from the Christian societie and often ioyned with torment of body or sicknesse And sometimes with death As in the excommunication of Ananias and Zaphiras VVhich Christes vicar S. Peter to the great terrour euen of the faithfull grauely pronounced on them for retaining backe certaine Church goods which by promesse they had before dedicated vnto God the Apostles distributiō This kinde of punishment of sinnes was euer counted so terrible that we finde it called of the olde fathers damnation as one that most resembles the paines of the worlde to come of all other And if man coulde see with corporall eyes the miserie of the party so condemned in Gods church his hearte woulde brast and it woulde moue terrour of further damnation euen to the stubborne contemners of the Churches authoritie The which censure of Gods priestes though it was sometimes to the euerlasting woe of such offenders as neglected the benefite of that present paine yet commonly it was but chastisement and louing correction of our deare mother for their deliuerie from greater griefe in the life to come 2 He sayth that excōmunication was oftentimes ioyned with torment of bodie and sickenesse and sometimes with death Of torment and sickenesse he bringeth no proofe but of death in Ananias and Saphira But where findeth he that they were excommunicated I finde that they were punished with death for their hypocrisie and dissimulation but there is no worde nor halfe worde of their excommunication and whereas you saye it was for reteining backe of certaine Church goods S. Peter sayth it was for lying and tempting the holy Ghost And those Church goods were not for vaine ostentation of golden copes chalices or such like superstitious vanities but for the necessarie reliefe of the poore Againe I know in what sense you call S. Peter Christes vicar well if the Pope be in the same office Peter was why doth he not likewise punish those whome he taketh to be Church robbers if he lacke the power as I am sure he lacketh not the will then hath he not the authoritie Peter had And if Peter did this as Christes vicar then is not he Christes vicar that can not doe as Peter did 3 And for this cause as the example of all ages past may sufficiently proue were certeine times and ordinary termes of penaunce apointed for iust satisfaction for euery offense and by the holy Canons so limited that no sinne wittingly might be reserued to Gods heauy reuenge in the ende of our short dayes It were to long to reporte the rules and prescription of penaunce out of Nice Councell or Ancyre or out of S. Cyprian for their punishmēt that fell to Idolatry in the time of Decius and Diocletianus or out of Ambrose the notable excommunication of Theodosius the Emperour By all which and the like in the histories of the Ecclesiasticall affaires he that can not see what paine is due vnto sinne euen after the remission thereof I holde him both ignorant and malicious blinde 3 That certeine times and ordinary termes were appointed in which they that grieuousely offended shoulde shew their repentaunce the same was not for satisfaction for their sinnes but for certaine demonstration of their repētaunce which thing appereth euen by the same canons of the Councels which you alledge For when godly discipline beganne to decaie whereof Cyprian complaineth often in his epistles men that notoriously offended would sometime by thretning and terrors sometime by refusing the censure of that church by whome they were condemned sometime by flattering the constant Martyrs and so deceiuing them that they would become suters for them at whose request the Church many times was intreated would seeke to thrust them selues againe into the communion of the faithfull before they had shewed sufficient tokens of sorrow for so greuous faltes of which enormyties Cyprian much complaineth as one that was much trobled with thē as Lib. 1. Epist. 3. Lib. 3. Epist. 15. For remedy of which enormities and for auoiding of all subtill practises to restore discipline to the auncient seuerity decrees were made by the aunciēt Councels in which certaine times of triall were appointed for offenders to approue their repentaunce with regarde of the heynousnesse of their crymes but yet with such moderation that they might be receiued before the time appointed if they shewed sufficient fruites of repentaunce as appereth most plainely in the 11. Canon of the Nicone Councell where it is said Ab omnibus vero illud praecipuè obseruetur vt animus corum fructus poenitentiae attendatur c. Let this be chiefely considered of all that are excommunicated that there minde and fruictes of repentaunce be considered for they that with all feare continuall teares
altogither to discent though he doe not plainly allow it And that he writeth vpon the first of Ezechiel to which place M. Allen sendeth vs he speaketh of the prouidence of God which so gouerneth the afflictions of his Sainctes that that which seemed to be a punishment is conuerted into a medicine As children imagine that spirites and goblines be in euery darke corner So M. Allen neuer readeth fire and torment but by and by he dreameth of purgatory Origen is alleged for our cause vpon vvhose errour in a matter somevvhat appertayning to our purpose S Augustins iudgement is more largely sought and therevvith it is declared by testimony of diuers holy authors vvhat sinnes be chiefly purged in that temporall fire CAP. VIII 1 THese three noble learned men might right well satisfie our search for the sense of the textes both of the Prophet and Apostle and perswade any reasonable man in the whole cause yet for that there be â—ome that meane not to relent in their lewde opinions for light proffers I will store them with testimonies Origenes one of great antiquity in many places of his works vnderstandeth both the sayd textes of Malachie and S. Paule in the like sorte by whom we may well take a great taste of the time and Church where he liued what men of wisedom vertue then iudged of thinges which now of fooles be contemned and of heretikes condemned also But namely vpon the Prophet Ieremy in these wordes Si post fundamentum Iesu Christi non solum in tuo corde aurum argentum lapidem preciosum superae dificaueris verum ligna foenum stipulam quid tibi vis fieri cum anima seiuncta fuerit a corpore vtrum ne ingredi vis in sancta cum lignis tuis foeno stipula vt polluas regnum Dei an propter lignum foenum stipulam foris residere vis pro auro argento lapide precioso nil mercedis accipere sed neque hoc aequum est Quid ergo sequitur nisi vt primum propter lignum ignis tibi detur qui consumat foenum lignum stipulam c. If vpon the foundation which is Christ Iesus thou do not onely builde golde siluer and preciouse stone but also woodde hay and strawe what doest thou looke for after thy death wilt thou entre into the holy places with thy woodde hay and stooble and defile the kingdome of God or els for thy wood hay and straw thou wilt abide forthe and so liese the rewarde of thy golde siluer and preciouse stone But that were no reason then there is no waye but one first to receiue fire for to consume and burne out thy woodde hay and stooble and then afterwarde to receiue for thy better workes the rewarde of saluation so sayth Origen VVhose iudgement if any man mistrust in this point because he erred in other let him learne to miscredit only his or other mens singular opinioÌ„s priuate phaÌ„tasies wherein they disagreed from the residue of the common body of Christ his Church not contemne in any man the confirmation of the vniuersall sense which he findeth in the vniforme doctrine of all other Christian Catholikes In deede it was so euident that this Purgatory fire of which the Apostle speaketh shoulde be in the other life that this learned man afterwarde leauing the meaning which the holy Church had opened for the proofe of certeine transitory punishment in the next worlde for meaner offenders would of his owne head go forwarde which is the bane of many a goodly wit and mainteine that all greuous crimes and most wicked maners might be purged by this fire after death and the parties in time saued so that they had faith for their foundation whereby as S. Augustine noteth of him he made onely faith to saue the wicked without repentaunce or good workes CAP. VIII 1 WHether M. Allen knew that his former witnesses did not agree or that he would geue a tast of his bountifull dealing in pressing vs with more testimonies then needed he will nowe produce Origen whom though he confesse to be infamouse for heresy yet eueÌ„ of his error he wil not doubt but to grounde his purgatory Origen will haue men passe through a fire but to make it plaine that he meaneth not the fier of Popish purgatory we shal perceiue by other places of his writings that he speaketh of such a fire as all men be they neuer so iust shall passe through affirming that all meÌ„ haue neede of purifications after his life ye Peter Paule and such like in Num. Hom. 25. in Psal. 36. Hom. 3. But all men passe not through the Popes purgatory I passe ouer here the grosse allegory that he maketh of the bloude of Deuils by which a man shal be washed and purified in the kingdome of God that being so purified and made cleane he may enter into the city of god Num. Hom. 25. But how soeuer he doteth about passage through fier and purifications after this life yet he affirmeth in an other place that the day of Christian mens death is the deposition of paine whereby it appereth that either he was not constant with him selfe or els that Origens purgatory was a painlesse purgatory His wordes are in Iob Lib. 3. Nam priores diem natiuitatis celebrabant vnam vitam diligentes aliam post hanc non sperantes Nunc vero nos non natiuitatis diem celebramus cum sit dolorum atque tentationum introitus sed mortis diem celebramus vtpote omnium dolorum depositionem atque omnium tentationum effugationem The former men did celebrate the daye of natiuity as they that loued but one life and hoped for none after this But now we doe not celebrate the daye of Natiuitie seeing it is the entrance of sorrowes and temptations but we celebrate the daye of death as that which is a deposition of all griefes and an auoyding of all temptations 2 Against which perniciouse error the said doctor often writeth and proueth that this place of S. Paule can not make for the deliuery of the wicked or greuous offenders in any case And being somewhat vrged by the aduersaries arguments or els because he woulde take all holde from them which they seemed to haue by that scripture he seeketh them out an other meaning not contrary at all to the trueth of Purgatory but yet farther of their purpose Declaring that this fire might as he saith there signify some griefe of this worlde for the abating of some inordinate affectioÌ„s that be found in many euen towards things otherwise lawfull Though he was very loth to auouch this as the vndouted meaning of that scripture being pleaced with any other whereby they shoulde not be forced to deny the eternall damnation of impenitent sinners as in deede he neuer gaue this meaning but where the Origenistes did vrge him and in such places onely where he aunswereth to Origens arguments for
in other places where he was free from contention with the saide sects he euer in expresse termes grounded the doctrine of Purgatory vpō the Apostles wordes Yea euen in the same answere to the aduersary he was so mindefull of Gods iustice in the world to come and ferd lest he might geue any occasion of the contrary error to deny purgatory that in the same talke with the Origenistes he confesseth there might well be some griefe in the next life also which might likewise purge and deliuer a man from the loue of transitory thinges wherwith the best sorte of men be in this our misery often very sore loden Although in dede he doubted whether any such affection and loue of thinges deare vnto vs in this worlde as of wife kinred acquaintance or such like might remaine in man after his departure hense so there in time to be lessened and in fine vtterly remoued or worne away by some griefe and sorow which in the next life might by the lacke of the said things vexe and molest his minde As we see it commonly fall in this present life where mā by diuerse profitable troubles of this world learneth to set light by thinges which in ordre he might well loue being for all that more merite to forsake them And of this point S. Augustine hath these wordes in one place Tale aliquid fieri etiam post hanc vitam incredibile non est vtrum ita sit quaeri potest some such thing may well be after this life and thereof question may be made By which wordes the heretikes of our time either of ignorance or of malice which be euer yoked together in such men haue borne the simple in hande that this holy doctour doubted of Purgatory A litle holde will serue such wringers because he doubted of it they beleue as they thinke by good authority that with out doubt there is none at all If S. Augustine had but saide belike there is no such meane place in the life following mary sir then they might haue picked more matter of their infidelity yet of that speach determining no certeinty there had bene no great cause why they shoulde haue forsaken the iudgement of Gods Church But now he so doubteth that he findeth more cause to thinke there shoulde be one then that any man might gather vpon his words that there shoulde be none at all No nor he neuer went so farre good reader as to make any doubt of Purgatory paines for punishment of sinnes committed in the worlde For in all the same bookes where he hath the like saing and almost in the very same places he holdeth as a matter of faith and to be beleued of all Christian men that the prayers of the lieuing do release some of their paines in the next life And he constantly as all other Catholikes euer did confesseth that the sinnes or vncleane workes of the liuing not duely by penaunce wiped away in this worlde must be mended after our death although it be very doubtefull in deede whether there be any worldely affections left in mans mind vntaken vp by death and resolution of the body and the soule the care and remembraunce whereof might be afterward by sorrow both purged and punished And this to be his meaning and that he termeth here purgatory the griefe which a man hath in losing that which he loued in this mortall life his owne wordes testifie in euery of those workes in which he keepeth this combate with Origenistes In one place thus Quod sine illicienti amore non habuit sine dolore vrente non perdet ex earum rerum amissione tantum necesse est vt vrat dolor quantum haeserat amor That which by ticklinge loue was kept can not be lost with out burning griefe And looke how fast the loue of such thinges did cleane to mans minde so farre must sorow burne So in the like talke with the saide Origenistes in his booke de fide operibus he followeth the same signification of Purgatory Haec igitur sayth he quoniam affectu dilecta carnali non sine dolore amittuntur qui sic ea habent in eorum amissione passi detrimētum per ignem quendam doloris perueniunt ad salutem these thinges being by carnall affection loued be not lightly lost without griefe and therfore those that thus be affectionate feele losse in parting from them and so come to saluation through the fire of sorow such a sadnesse the yonge man that demaunded of our maister the waye to heauen conceiued straight when motion was onely made of distribution of his goods VVho being otherwise in the state of saluation and to be borne withall because he was a iust man and lacked not the foundation of his faith yet the very losse or leauing of his goods was vnto him if he continued in that affection a wonderfull great torment as S. Augustine here calleth it a kinde of purgatory the which perfect men that esteme all the trashe of this worlde as durte and donge to winne Christ feele not at all whome the doctour supposeth therefore to take no domage in the losse of thinges which they so litle loued Now in euery place where this expositiō is founde as I thinke it is neuer in all his workes lightly but in conference with the Origenistes he alwayes addeth that the like fire of sorow may also correct the affections euen of the departed but yet whether it be so or no he counteth it a question of probable disputation rather then any matter of faith as it is in deede very doubtfull whether any such vnordinate affectiō may remaine vntaken vp after mans departure which by griefe and sorow in the other worlde may be in time wholy consumed And further he neuer doubted For in that famous worke of the Citie of God with in two Chapters of that doubt made of this kind of purgation which we now haue declared he vttereth his faith with Gods Church of that greate torment and iust punishment of sinnefull life not sufficiently purged by penaunce in our time which he calleth the Amending fire and thus he sayth there Tales etiam constat ante iudicij diem per poenas temporales quas eorum spiritus patiuntur purgatos receptis corporibus aeterni ignis supplicijs non tradendos c. It is certaine sayth he Constat which is no worde of doubtefullnesse that such men being purged by the temporall paines which their soules do suffer before the day of iudgement shall not after they haue receiued their bodies againe be committed to the torment of the euerlasting fire This he vttereth in the same place where he doubteth of the other kinde of purgation as he confesseth him selfe to be uncertaine of the whole exposition refusing none at all that were agreable to faith and woulde not helpe the falsehood which he thē refuted In his Enchir where he disputeth against the same error
purged of the smaller spottes which sticke by him In the same sense doth Theodoretus both expounde the wordes of the Apostle and vtter his iudgement of Purgatory also and almost the rest of all the Latine or Greeke writers which my purposed breuitie with plentifull proofe otherwise forceth me to leaue to the studious reader 3 Next ensueth the authoritie of Ieronym or Bede or perhaps neither of them both but yet of some olde writer which holdeth that from light sinnes men may be absolued after their death by paynes prayers almes or masses This was a writer for M. Allens tooth but neither of antiquitie nor credit sufficient to cary away this cause The iudgement of Oecumenius and Theodoretus though they were writers about that time when corruption of doctrine had greatly preuailed yet are they not cleare for popish purgatory which the greeke Church although they pray for the dead yet would neuer agree to acknowledge 4 One place more I will onely adde out of Remigius because he learnedly may knit vp the place by ioyning both the Prophet and Apostles wordes together vpon which we haue stand so longe Thus that good author writeth Ipse enim quasi ignis conflans peccators exurens Ignis enim in conspectu eius ardebit in circuitu eius tempestas valida Hoc igne consumūtur lignum foenum stipula Nec solum erit quasi ignis sed etiam quasi herba fullonum qua vestes nimium sordibus infectae lauantur Porro his qui grauiter peccauerunt erit ignis conflans exurens illis vero qui leuia peccata commiserunt erit herba fullonum Hinc per Isaiam dicitur si abluerit dominus c. Qui enim habent sordes leuium peccatorum spiritu iudicij purgantur qui vero sanguinem habent hoc est grauioribus peccatis infecti sunt spiritu ardoris exurentur purgabuntur Et sedebit conflans emundans argentum colabit eos quasi aurum argentum hoc est intellectum colloquium vt quicquid mixtum est stanno vel plumbo camino domini exuratur quod purum aurum est argentum remaneat Et purgabit filios Leui In filijs Leui omnem sacerdotalem ordinē intelligimus a quibus iudicium incipiet quia scriptum est tempus est vt iudicium incipiat a domo dei alibi à sanctuario meo incipite Si autem sacerdos flammis purgandus est colandus quid de caeteris dicendum est quos nullum commendat priuilegium sanctitatis These golden wordes haue this sense He shall come as the goldesmithes fire burning sinners For in his sight a flame shall rise and a mighty tempest rounde about him by which fire our woodde hay and stooble shall be wasted and worne away VVith that he shall be like the clensers herbe whereby garments very much stained be purged To all those that haue greuously offended he wil be a burning and melting fire but to the light sinners he shall be as the washers herbe VVhich difference the prophet Esay noteth thus If our Lorde wipe away the filthe of the daughters of Syon and bloude from the middest of Israel in the spirite of iudgement and fire For such as haue onely the spottes of veniall sinnes they may be amended by the spirite of iudgement but men of bloude to witte the more greuous offenders must be tried by fire And he shall sit casting and purifying siluer and shall purge men as golde and siluer be purified that is to say our thoughtes understanding and wordes from impurity and vncleannesse as from pewter and leade by Gods fornace shall exactly be purged and nothing shall be left but as pure as golde and fine siluer And he shal purge the sonnes of Leui that is the ordre of priesthood where this heuy iudgement shall first begin For so it is writtē Time is now that iudgemēt begin at the house of God and againe Begin at my sanctuary If the priest must be purged and fined what shall we deme of other whome priuilege of holy ordre doth not commende or helpe thus farre goeth the author in conference of diuerse scriptures VVho with the rest of al the holy fathers that compassed their senses within the vnity of Christes Church hath founde by euident testimony of sundry scriptures the paines of purgatory which the busy heades of our time by vaine bragging of scriptures in singular arrogancy of their owne wittes can neuer finde 4 Last of all here is vaunt made of the testimony of Remigius as though he were a new author and perhaps M. Allen in his notes founde him so but it is nothing else but the saying of Ieronym almost word for word vppon 3. Malach 3. which before we haue shewed sufficiently to be mēt of the iudgement that Christ should exercise by his doctrine at his first comming and nothing at all pertayning to purgatory And therefore these golden words as you cal them M. Allen haue a leaden exposition when they be drawne from the preaching of the Gospell to the mayntenance of purgatory A further declaration of this pointe for the better vnderstanding of the doctours vvordes VVherein it is opened hovv purgatory is ordeined for mortal sinnes hovv for smaller offences vvho are like to feele that griefe vvho not at all CAP. IX 1 ANd I thinke they now haue small aduantage by the exception of Origens testimony by occasion whereof such light is founde for our cause that we now by goodly authority haue both founde the placies alleaged plainely to proue purgatory and also what sinnes it namely purgeth and what men after their death may be amended thereby That not onely the bare trueth but some necessary circumstances to the studious of the trueth haue bene here by iust occasion opened and all errour wholy remoued Except this point may somewhat stay the reader that heareth in some places the paines of Purgatory to be both a punishment for greuous sinnes and a purgation of lighter trespasses with all and yet that it now may appeare the contrary by the minde of some learned authors who expressely make that paine as a remedy onely for veniall sinnes and not to apperteine at all to the capitall and deadely crimes that man often times doth commit Therefore to be as plaine as may be necessary for the vnlearned or any other that is godly curious in things much tending to the quiet rest of mans conscience it is to be noted that this ordinary iustice of God in the life following for the purgation of the elect can not discharge any man of mortall sinne which was not pardoned before in the Church militant vppon earth And therefore what crime so euer deserueth damnation and was not in mans life remitted it can not by purgatory paines be released in the next because it deserueth death euerlasting and staieth the offender from the kingdome of heauen for euer no peine temporall in this
that for feare or worldly respectes denied their faith and offered to idols who afterward the storme of tyrannie somewhat being caulmed confessed their faulte and did penaunce for the same by S. Cyprian other good byshops prescriptioÌ„ that then ruled the Church of those dayes By whom after due satisfaction made they were admitted to the communion of the Christian company receite of the holy Sacraments againe But all pastours not of like mercy of seuerity in the case some were suspended from the vse of the Sacraments longer and othersome by more clemency with speede pardoned againe Now S. Cyprian though he were very seuere in such a cause as in all his workes it doth well appeare yet he was blamed by Antonianus others that he dealte ouer mekely with such as denied their faith in so speedy admission of them to the peace of Gods church as they then termed that reconciliation alleaging that if such wordely wind wauerers might be admitted so soone after the open deniall of their faith then there woulde none stedfastly stande to death by confession of their belefe and their maisters name any more the refusers being in as good case as they if pardon might so soone be procured But S. Cyprians aunswere is this that their admission can not withdrawe any mans zele from martyrdom or confession of Christes name seeing their reconciliation doth not set them on so cleare bord as martyrs be VVho being tried by their bloud shal straight receiue the crowne of glory VVhen the others standing but vpon pardon of their sinnes and not discharged of due paines for the same must into prison notwithstanding till they haue paide their vttermost duety and by longe amending by fire at the last come to that reward which the martyrs atteined by sufferance at the first And thus I thinke this holy Martyr meaneth His wordes surely be singular and being well vnderstande they conteine as much matter for our purpose as can be possibly in so litle roume besides the exposition of the texte wherein we yet do stande But I will adde more that all may be saâ—fe on euery side 3 The place of Cyprian hath more couller but yet not so cleere for purgatory as M. Allen would seem to make it For first it is plaine by the wordes both going before and following after that he speaketh of adulterers that are pardoned in the Church of whome some bishoppes that were Cyprian his predecessours had so harde a iudgement that they did vtterly seclude them from reconciliation and allowed them no place of repentaunce but Cyprian was not of that vnreasonable seueritie for his Church did receiue them although they compted them not equall with martyrs or continent persons For it is one thing to be admitted by pardon as adulterers are but yet with some note of ignominie an other to come to glory as martyrs and continent persones doe It is one thing by denying of reconciliation to adulterers in this life to driue them to that prison from whence they shall not come till they haue payed the vttermost farthing an other thing to compt them vnreconciled like them that immediatly receiue the reward of there faith and vertue It is one thing for a man after he hath bene longe time vexed with sorowe for his sinnes to be reformed as one that hath bene long purged in the fire an other thing by suffering persecution to haue purged all his sinnes Finally it is one thing to hange vpon the sentence of God in the daye of iudgement as they seeme to do which being penitent for their heynous sinnes yet are not absolued from them by the Church An other thing to be assured of their crowne which haue striued lawfully And this I take to be the simple meaning of Cyprians words agreeing with the circumstaunce of the place But if they were otherwise ment by him surely they can not but with carte ropes be drawene to the Popes purgatory For those that stande by pardon he excludeth from glory and those that are reformed by sorrow and purged by fire he suspendeth vntill the last daye and then maketh them vncertaine of the sentence also which can not stande with the Papistes opinion of purgatory no more then that which he writeth in his treatise against Demetrianus towarde the ende Quando isthinc excessum suerit nullus iam locus poenitentiae est nullus satisfactionis effectus Hic vita aut amittitur aut tenetur c. When men are gone hence there is no place of repentaunce no effect of satisfaction while we are here life is either lost or helde And exhorting Demetrianus him selfe to repentaunce which had bene a wicked man and a persecutor of the Christians he sayth to him Tu sub ipso licet exitu vitae temporalis occasu pro dilictis roges Deum qui vnus verus est confessionem fidem agnitionis eius implores venia confitenti datur credenti indulgentia salutaris de diuina pietate conceditur ad immortalitatem sub ipsa morte transitur If thou although it but a litle before the ende and decay of this temporall life shall pray to God for thy sinnes which is the onely true God If thou desire confession and faith of his knowledge pardon is giuen to him that confesseth and holsome forgeuenes of the goodnes of God is graunted to him that beleueth and euen from the howre of death he passeth into immortalitie By this appeareth what Cyprian his iudgement was of purgatory and the effect of satisfaction after this life 4 Eusebius Emissenus an author of great antiquity and much credit in the Church of God helpeth our cause by this notable discourse following Hi vero qui temporalibus poenis digna gesserunt ad quos sermo dei dirigitur quod non exient inde donec reddant nouissimum quadraÌ„tem per fluuium igneum de quo propheticus sermo commemorat fluuius rapidus currebat ante cum per vada feruentibus globis horrenda transibunt Quanta fuerit peccati materia tanta erit pertranseundi mora quantum accreuerit culpa tantum sibi ex homine vindicabit flaÌ„mae rationabilis disciplina quaÌ„tum stulta iniquitas gessit tantum sapiens poena deseuiet Et quia sermo diuinus quodammodo aeneae ollae animam comparans Pone ollam super prunas vacuam donec incalescat aes eius illic periuria irae malitiae cupiditates quae puritatem nobilis naturae infecerant exudabunt illic stannum vel plumbum diuersarum passionum quae aurum diuinae imaginis adulterauerant consumentur Quae omnia hic ab anima separati per eleemosynas lachrymas compendij transactione poteraÌ„t Ecce sic exigere habet ab homine rationem qui seipsum pro homine dedit confixus clauis legem mortis fixit Thus it is in our tongue As for all such vnto whome for their offenses our Lordes word is especially directed that they shall not come
penaunce whereby the woundes of mans frailty are profitably cured be found 5 Aske your owne conscience M. Allen whether you haue not miserably wrested the Scriptures your selfe And lette all reasonable men aunswere whether such textes of Scriptures as you haue wrested out of the true sense I haue not wrested out of your handes And that not by shamefull denial of the Doctors but euen by the testimony exposition of the doctors them selues with force of matter rather then flow of wordes with plaine meaning rather then with deceitfull dealing And whereas you boast your selfe to be a reporter of antiquity you haue shewed your selfe to be a fauorer of forgery and a corrupter of antiquity As for the gracious giftes and conceit of comfort that you bragge of in your counterfeit Church of hypocrites and sclaunderous Synagoges of Satan how so euer you paynt it out with glorious termes we geue most humble harty thaÌ„ks to the infinite goodnes of God which hath geuen his holy spirite into our hearts with perfect assurance of his fauour euerlasting and hath so furnished his seruaunts with such giftes as he hath thought sufficient for the setting forth of his praise in his Church vpon earth that we neede not desire any other giftes or comfort out of his family but onely the continuance and increase of the same which we haue already in his owne house vntill we shall be translated from this mortall and corruptible state to the eternall and incorruptible glory which is laid vp in heauen for all them that wait for the appearing of the glorious God our Lord and Sauiour Iesus Christ to whom be all honour and dominion both now and euermore Amen THE ENDE OF THE FIRST BOOKE THE SECOND BOOKE INTREATING OF THE PRAIERS and other ordinary reliefe that the Church of Christ procureth for the soules departed THE PREFACE OF THIS BOOKE wherein the matter of the treatise and the ordre of the Authors preceading be briefely opened 1 WE haue now taried very longe in the consideration of Gods iustice mighty scourge not onely for the euerlasting outcastes but also for the exacte triall of the chosen childrens wayes The beholding whereof must needes ingender some sorow and sadnesse of minde and with all as it commonly happeth in our frailety a certaine bitter tediousnesse both in the writer and the reader though for my parte I will say with S. Paule that it greeueth me neuer a whit that I haue in my talke geuen you occasion of sadnesse being assured that this present greefe may worke perfect penaunce to vndoubted saluation But the wearinesse of that rough part which might both by the weight of the matter and also by my rude handeling quickely arise to the studious reader I shall in this booke wholy wipe away not by art or pleasant fall of words which in plaine dealing is not much requisite but by the singular comfort of our cause In the continuall course whereof we shall ioy more and more at the beholding of Gods passing mercy in remission of sinnes and mitigatioâ—â—f the paines which iustice enioyned For now we must talke how the fiery sword of Gods ire may be turned from his people VVhich as one of the fathers truely saide beareth a great shewe of vengeaunce and iudgement because it is named a firy sworde but yet knowen withall to be a tourning sworde that is gladius versatilis it shall geue great cause of comfort againe O sapientes sayth deuoute Dasmacene ad vos loquor scrutamini erudimini quia plurimus est timor Dei domini omnium sed multò amplior bonitas formidabiles quidem minae incomparabilis autem clementia horrenda quidem supplicia ineffabile autem miserationum suarum pelagus Thus he speaketh of Purgatory and mercy O you of the wise sorte to you do I speake searche and learne that the feare of God the Lorde of all thinges is maruaillous much but his goodnesse farre ouerreacheth it His threatning exceding feâ—refull but his clemency vncomparable the prepared punishmeÌ„ts doubtlesse horrible but the bottomlesse â—ea of his mercies is vnspeakable so saide he Therefore if our sinnes forgeuen were neuer so greuous or our vicious life so farre wasted in idle welth that space of fructefull penaunce and opportunity of well working by the nightes approching and our Lordes sodden calling be taken away in which longe differring of our amendement heuy and sore execution must needes for iustice sake be done yet let vs not mistrust but God measureth his iudgement with clemency and hath ordeined meanes to procure mercy and mitigate that sentence euen in the middest of that firy doungion that the vessels of grace and the redemed flocke may worthely sing both mercy iudgement to our gracious God who in his angre forgetteth not to haue compassion neither withdraweth his pity in the middest of his ire For this imprisonment endureth no longer then our debtes be paide this fire wasteth no further then it findeth matter to consume this disâ—riet wise flame as some of the fathers before termed it chastiseth no longer then it hath cause to correct Yea often before this fire by course of iustice can cease God quencheth it with his sonnes bloude recompenseth the residew by our maisters merittes and accepteth the carefull crie of our mother the Church for hâ—r children in paine The memorie of Christes death liuely and effectually setforth in the soueraigne misteries vppon the Altare in earth entereth vp to the presence of his seate and procureth pardon in heauen aboue the merites of all sainctes the prayer of the faithfull the workes of the charitable both earnestly aske and vndoubtedly finde mercye and grace at his hande For of such the Prophet Dauid asketh Nunquid in aeternum proijciet Deus aut continebit in ira sua misericordias suas VVill God caste them awaye for euer or will he shutte vp his mercy when he is angrie No he will not so sayth S. Ambrose Deus quos proijcit non in aeternum proijcit God casteth of many whom he doth not euerlastingly for sake Then let vs seeke the wayes of this so mercyfull a Lorde that we may take singular comforte therein our selues against the day of our accompt and indeuour mercyfully to helpe our deare brethern so afflicted lest if we vse not compassion towardes them we iustly receiue at Gods hande for the rewarde of our vnmercyfulnesse iudgement and iustice with out mercy THE SECOND BOOKE TO THE PREFACE 1 YOu haue taryed longer in consideratioÌ„ of Gods iustice then is agreable to the matter of his mercy which is the death of his only sonne our Lord and Sauiour Christ. And now you will mollyfie the hardnesse of that handling with the sory comforte of your vnchristian cause Wherin you haue more regarde to the heating of your owne harthe then to the cooling of the selye soules to kindle a good fire in your owne kitchen then to quench the
may be remitted that is to say either made lesse or els wholy released before the due execution of Gods sentence be extremely done For it is not ment that the freedom which man may haue after full aunswere and payment of his sinnes in that place of punishment temporall shoulde be properly termed a remission or pardon For that is aunswerable to Gods iustice and although there were no prayers or other wayes of helpe yet the patient by toleration in time might vnder the protection of Christes merites make full satisfaction and so be discharged who being a vessell of mercy can not be damned But when we say that sinnes may be forgeuen in the next worlde Gods Church which is the mother of all beleuers teacheth vs that some parte as well of the rigour and extremity of the paine as of the time and continuance thereof though God him selfe hath appointed that punishment may yet be mercyfull released 3 S. Augustine is much beholding to you that you giue men to witte that when he was wrangled withall by any misbeleuer he had occasion to wrest the Scripture otherwise then the words imported so you iudge of him because he would not for your pleasure expound the fire of tryall 1. Cor. 3. For your fire of purgatory But concerning this testimony of Augustine it maketh not so much against vs but it maketh as litle for you For if you haue translated his words according to his meaning as you haue not according to his wordes he vnderstandeth by this place remission of the paynes and not of the sinnes which helpeth you nothing to that which you haue taken in hand to proue that sinnes are forgiuen after this life And so he seemeth to say in the 13. chapter of the same booke Non autem omnes veniunt in sempiternas poenas quae post illud iudiciuÌ„ his sunt futurae qui post mortem sustinent temporales nam quibusdam quod in isto non remittitur remitti in futuro saeculo id est ne futuri saeculi aeterno supplicio puniantur iam ante dixi All they come not into euerlasting paynes which after that iudgement shall be to them that after death suffer temporall paynes for I haue sayd already that vnto some that which is not remitted in this world is remitted in the world to come that is that they should not be punished in the world to come In these wordes he speaketh of release of paynes but not of forgiuenes of sinnes But in the place by you alleged if the words be truly translated according to the discourse of that chapter he affirmeth that after the resurrection those paynes which the spirites of the dead doe suffer there shal be some vpon whom mercy shall be bestowed so that they shall not be cast into eternall fire c. So that Augustine in this place speaketh not of such sinnes as are remitted in purgatory but of such persons as are forgiuen in the last iudgement when purgatory is ended Wherefore though Augustine erred in this place yet he erred from your cause And whereas you affirme in the margent that sometime Gods iustice is aunswered fully by the payne of the party you are contrary to the rest of your family for they hold that the generall prayers and sacrifices of your mother Church doe help them Yea the maister of the sentence holdeth that a poore man hauing equall merites with a rich man though there be no special prayers masses fasting or almes done for him is holpen as well by the common almes and prayers as the rich man for whom speciall prayers and large almes are done lib. 4. dist 45. For otherwise the opinion of merites could not stand And vnlesse M. Allen thinke that all such masses and prayers in which the dead are generally commended be vnprofitable his proposition can not stand by his owne learning That the faithfull soules in Purgatory being novv past the state of dâ—seruing and not in case to helpe them selues may yet receiue benefit by the vvorkes of the lyuing to vvhome they be perfectly knitte as fellovv membres of one body CAP. II. 1 BVt now what meanes may be founde to ease our brethern departed of their paine or what wayes can be acceptable in the sight of God to procure mercy and grace where the sufferers them selues being out of the state of deseruing and place of well working can not helpe them selues nor by any motion of minde atteine more mercy â–ª then their life past did deserue VVhere shall we then finde ease for them surely no where els but in the vnity and knotte of that holy fellowship in which the benefite of the heade perteyneth to all the membres euery good worke of any one membre woÌ„derfully redouÌ„deth to all the rest This society is called in our Crede communio Sanctorum the communion of Sainctes that is to say a blessed brotherhood vnder Christ the heade by loue and religion so wroght and wrapped together that what any one membre of this fast body hath the other lacketh it not what one wanteth the other supplieth when one smarteth all feeleth in a maner the like sorow when one ioyeth the other reioyseth withall This happy society is not impared by any distance of place by diuersity of Gods giftes by inequality of estates nor by chaunge of life so farre as the vnity of Gods spirit reacheth so farre this fellowship exteÌ„deth this city is as large as the benefit of Christes death taketh place Yea within all the compasse of his kingdome this fellowship is founde The soules and sainctes in heauen the faithfull people in earth the chosen children that suffer chastisement in purgatory are by the perfect bonde of this vnity as one abundeth ready to serue the other as one lacketh to craue of the other The soules happely promoted to the ioye of Christes blessed kingdome in this vnitie and knotte of loue perpetually praye for the doubtfull state of their owne fellowes beneth the carefull condition of the membres belowe continually crieth for helpe at their handes in heauen aboue Nowe the membres of Christes Church here yet trauelling in earth they pray together they faste together they desire together they deserue together Christ our heade in whose bloude this city and society standâ—th will haue no worke nor way of saluation that is nâ—t common to the whole body in generall and peculierly proffitable to supply the neede of euery parte thereof He which instituted the blessed sacraments will haue them in this vnity to worke in common as farre as the ende of eche of their institutions requireth and out of it to haue no force at all he that maketh all our workes acceptable though they be done of one will haue them perteine to all the holy sacrifice of the Church by the will of the author and the likenesse of the exemplar as in deede being in an other maner the very selfe same is made so common that it ioyneth the Sainctes
confesse before the Lorde that it is nothing in comparison of his mercy towards vs nor our duety towards him But yet blessed be his holy name that it is sufficient to iustifie our profession against the Papistes if not to stoppe their malicious mouthes yet to condemne their cancred conscience of obstinate lying against the manifest light of truth And whereas M. Allen will haue vs told that the blood of Christ maketh mens workes meritorious we will not let to tell him that the church of Christ abhorreth that blasphemy whereby Christes blood is made not the only nor the principall but an accessary and helping cause of remission of sinnes eternall saluation and will not doubt to tell him all such hypocrites as he is that neither see feele tast nor know the mystery of Christes redemption or any thing that ishueth vnto vs thereof which mingle merites of men by what colour or conueiance of wordes what so euer with the infinite and onely cause of our saluation the meere mercy of god And whereas he biddeth vs come into his Church we say to all them that are curable among them as the spirite of God hath taught vs come out of her my people come out of her lest ye be partakers of her plages and torments But nowe at the last he returneth to his matter of mercy affirming that after mens departure the representation of almes by such as receiued it shall moue God exceedingly to mercy O vaine imagination for which he hath neither Scripture nor doctor for neither the example of Peter and the saying of Cyprian helpeth him one iote because there is not the like comparison betwene man and God nor betwene deliuerance from hel which is certayne purgatory which is the controuersie 2 If thou yet chaunce to be negligent in the working of thine owne saluation when thou art in strength and helth when ouer much carefulnesse of worldly welth hindereth the remembraunce of thy duety towardes God for all that helpe thy selfe at the least in thy latter ende for though it had bene much better before yet it is not euill nowe I speake not for priestes aduauntage God is my iudge I am not of that roome my selfe and will not condemne my soule for other But I speake for pity of the deceiued people for compassion of the soules that lacke the reliefe of so soueraigne a remedy for mine owne helpe and those that I so dearly loue against the day of our accompt I speake it because I beleue it and I beleue it because I finde it practised of those men and in those dayes when true christianitie was yet feruent in Christes bloude when the faith was vndefiled and when workes and faith ranne together in the rase of mans life ioyntly without contention Then floorished this doctrine and thou shalt haue further tast of their vsage for mine owne discharge we can not occupy our penne better S. Chrysostome thus instructed his flocke in this case Si adhuc in hac vita constitutus omnia quibus animae tuae prodesse poteras bene dispensare neglexisti vel ad calcem vitae tuae tuis mandasti vt tua tibi ipsi submittendo erogent bonisque operibus te adiuuent eleemosinis dico oblationibus etiam hac ratione saluatorem conciliaueris scribe in tabulis cum filijs cognatisque tuis haeredem nomina dominum Nulli autem viuentium propterea occasionem damus ne faciat eleemosinas differendo vsque ad mortem If thou in thine owne time was ouer negligent in disposing thy goods for the proffit of thy soule and yet at the very ende doest at the last charge thy frendes or executors that they will employ thy proper goods for the reliefe of thy selfe and so helpe thee with good workes that is to saye with almes and oblation euen that way there is great hope thou maiest procure Gods fauour write in thy will that our Lorde may be named a fellowe heire with thy children and kinnesfolkes Neuerthelesse let no man take occasion hereby to be slacke in his life time or to differe his almes charitie till deathes approching This was the preaching of that doctours dayes this proceeded out of his golden mouth and this sounded out of euery pulpit And surely if you knew his life and qualities you woulde not take him to be the priestes proctor of whose dignity as he wrote much so where he founde any vicious he punished sore But he was a true proctor of our soules Chrysostome was no crauer perdye nor Christ neither though they warne vs to make frâ—ndes by Mammon for our owne saluation They aske not much they thrust out no inheretours it was but a mite that wanne the poore widowe that prayse a cuppe of cold water where more abilitie wanteth shall winne heauen at th end This then is the benefite of almes giuen in the time of mans life or otherwise by his appointment of his owne goodes after his departure both which procure mercie as well by the deede it selfe as by the prayers of those to whome that charity apperteined 2 This matter standeth vpon chaunce medly for if thou chaunce sayth he to be negligent c. and more rightly then he termeth the buriall of Geneua it may be called a matter of mumchaunce for he beginneth with a chaunce but he hath neuer a title of scripture nor any sufficient authority of a doctor to proue that almes bequeathed in a mans testament helpeth him out of purgatory And yet as though he had some greate speake to make he protesteth that he speaketh not for priestes aduantage because he is not of that roome him selfe c. but hereby you maye see what he counteth almes cheefely that which is geuen vnto priestes or else what needeth he to make any such protestation But he speaketh it because he beleueth it he would fayne counter fect his speach like the Apostle but an ape will be an ape although he be clothed in purple For the grounde of his belefe is not as the Apostles was the worde of God Rom. 10. but the practise of men which though they were neuer so good yet they were such as might deceiue and be deceiued But to the matter the florish of this doctrine was so great in those times which he commeÌ„deth to be so happy that he can not finde one man that speaketh of it but he is fayne to cite out of Damascene that which Chrysostome shoulde saye Which wordes proue no more but that almes is better geuen at the last then not at all of deliuerance from purgatory neuer a worde There is one word oblationibus which perhaps M. Allen would draw to masses for he translateth it oblation in the singular number which in the Latine is the plurall numbre His fetch is easy to finde the Masse though it be sayed neuer so often yet is it called of them but one oblation But I inferre vppon his owne conscience Chrysostomes
should pray yet she should not be heard euen of men remayning in this life your second reason as I conceiue it is that so long as men are in â—his world they may repent then sinne is not to death Therfore S. Iohn meaneth that they that dyed without bond of deadly sinne are to be prayed for your antecedent as before is false for the Apostle to the Hebrewes the sixt chapter sheweth that there be some which sinne so horribly in this life that it is vnpossible for them to be renewed by repentaunce So that your exposition being both voyd of authoritie and contrary to the manifest word of God of none that is wise or godly can be receiued Beside this the whole context of S. Iohns wordes doe plainly declare that he speaketh of prayers for the brethern that are liuing and not for them that are dead But I am to blame to spende so many wordes in a matter so manifest If the holy Ghost had euer allowed prayer for the dead he would once at the lest haue vttered the same plainly in holy canonicall Scriptures But Tertullian as wise a man as M. Allen affirmeth as we heard before that prayer for the deade hath no foundation in the Scriptures 2 To this place also S. Augustine disputing in his booke de ciuitate dei that praiers profiteth not all men departed alludeth or rather leaneth vnto it as a sure grouÌ„d against the Origenistes that woulde haue Gods mercy by mans prayers obteined for the wicked soules deceased after this sort Si qui autem vsque ad mortem habebunt cor impoenitens nec ex inimicis conuertuntur in filios numquid iam pro eis id est pro talium defunctorum spiritibus orat ecclesia cur ita nisi quia iam in parte diaboli computantur qui dum essent in corpore non sunt translati in Christum If there be any that till death continue in stubborne impenitency of hearte and of enemies to Gods Church will not be made children doeth the Church make intercession for such that is to say for the soules of them being departed in that state and why prayeth she not for them but because they be nowe reckoned for the deuills lot being deade that woulde not moue to Christes part when they were in their bodies And this is the cause that for such as in desperatioÌ„ destroy them selues by any kind of wilfull or violent death or in the stubborne maintenance of heresie offer them selues to be extirpate as well out of the society of mans life as out of the coÌ„munioÌ„ of the Christian company our holy mother the Church who by her practise is the best construer of Gods worde neuer vseth any meanes for their quiet rest VVheron there is a holy decree of Councell in this sense qui sibi ipsis quolibet modo culpabili inferunt mortem nulla pro illis fiat commemoratio neque cum psalmis sepeliantur All those that by any vnlawfull way procure their owne death let no commemoration be had of them nor be brought home with psalmes The which hath ben both diligently obserued euer amongest Christians and for terrour of the wicked often by holy Canons renewed VVherof there is no other cause but this that such persons being at the ende cut of the common bodie can receiue no vtility of that where vnto they are not nor now can not be ioyned And as in that case where Gods Church hath plaine presumption of any persons euerlasting perishing either by continuance in infidelitie out of her happy family or by heresie and separation of him selfe till the last ende leaping out of her holy lappe where he once was before or being and continuing with some open euidence thereof an vnprofitable membre and a deade branche as I saye in any plaine proofe of these thinges the Church neuer practiseth for his rest because she neither hath hope of getting any grace nor meanes to conuey any benefite vnto such as be not in the limmes of life so if our saide carefull mother doe bestow of her customable kindnesse all her godly meanes vpon those whome she knoweth not otherwise but in finall piety and penitence to haue passed this life and yet in deede before God to whome onely all secrets of mans hearte be perfectly open dyed as abiectes and outcastes in sinne and impenitencie she can not for all that any whit helpe their estate so miserable nor appeace Gods wrath towarde them being now out of the time of deseruing out of the Churchies lappe effectually and finally separated from the chosen people and out of the compaesse of grace and mercie Much lesse any priuate mans prayer can be any thing at all beneficiall to his freinde or other that dyed not in Gods fauour whose payne can neither be finished nor by any of these ordinary meanes one moment released or lessened Yet euery good faithfull person must imitate the diligence of Gods Church herein that ceaseth not both to offâ—â— and pray for all sortes with in her limites that be hense in any likelyhood of repentaunce departed who hadde rather they shoulde abounde to the needelesse then at any time lacke for the reliefe of such that might wante them 2 All this discourse is needelesse to proue that prayers profit not the infidels or the impenitent against them that beleue that the soules of the faithfull the repentant are where Christ is as he prayeth Ioan. 17. Father I will that those whome thou hast gyuen me where I am they also maye be with me that they may see my glory And euen so he sayeth to the theefe no perfect iuste man but a sinner repentant This daye thou shalt be with me in Paradise Luke 23. And S. Paule desireth to be dissolued and to be with Christ Philip. 1. This is the fayth of the Church of Christ and these be the groundes of our fayth voide of all doubtfulnesse obscurity sophistry and variable sentence of deceiuable men builded vpoÌ„ the certaine foundation of the eternall word of God The authoritie of Augustine proueth that the Church prayed not in his time for the spirits of infidells But the Councell Bracharense as afterwarde I shall more plainely shewe doth insinuate that no prayers were made at all for the soules of the departed in their Church at their burialls but onely a remembrance of them in prayers with thankesgeuing and singing of Psalmes For purgatory shoulde seeme had not yet trauelled into spaine But touching this assertion of M. Allen that those which dye out of the fauour of God as infidells and such like are not to be prayed for whose payne can neither be finished nor one moment released or lessened by any of these meanes what saye you then to Gregory the first byshop of Rome which with his vehement prayer as your owne Damascene and many others doe witnesse deliuered the soule of Traianus the heathen Emperour from Hell whereof there riseth a great controuersie among your doltish
diuines some affirming that he was deliuered out of Hell in deede some that he remaineth still in Hell but not in the tormâ—nts of Hell in which opinion is Mathew monke of Westminster in his Flores historiarum Anno gratiae 605. How shall we beleue the booke of Conformities of S. Frances who is there reported to haue deliuered not one but many soules out of Hell. If these be fables and lies M. Allen they be forged in your owne shop wheras purgatory all such other rotten postes and pillers of your Church were receiued If these be true that be set forth with so great authoritie then were not you well aduised to publishe such principles as be proued false by your owne patrons proctors 3 Therefore let no man withdrawe his almes charity or prayers from any of the houshoulde of faith vpon any light presumption yea or strong coniecture of any mans finall continuance in sinne or wickednesse vpon whome in the last spirite of breath as God maye haue mercy so mans prayers then shall be both needefull and exceding beneficiall vnto him Onely with conscience thou may and must cease with Gods Church to practise the wayes of mercy vppon such as be not baptised or otherwise after their baptisme haue by leauing this holy communion of the faithfull iudged them selues vnworthy and made their case vnapte by continuance therein to receiue any benefite either of the Church which of their owne accorde they haue forsaken or of any membre thereof wherevnto by faith and loue they are not ioyned And so all heretikes shall be voide of this mercy and grace after their death which did in their life so earnestly abhorre the same Vpon all other where any hope may be had if thou pray or procure the meanes of mercy it shall at least be to thy selfe a singular helpe and gayne though the partie for whome thou doest it either neede it not being already receiued into blesse or els in perpetuall damnation of Hell be helples for euer Si preces pro mortuis facimus sayth S. Chrysostome si elecmosinas damus etsi ille indignus sit nobis Deus placatior erit If we pray for the deade and bestowe almes for their sakes if he be founde vnworthy yet God will the rather be mercyfull to our selues And sure it is that who so euer be founde so gracious as with much compassion of the deceaseds misery to procure with study and care Gods mercyfull pardon towardes them that such a one especially shall finde grace and fauour at the time of neede and be meruailous apt to receiue benefit by others procurement againe For as it is certaine that no man can receiue benefite after his departure by any worke or will of the liuing sauing such as in their life deserued the same so must it needes be that where these remedies be needefull and profitable that yet more or lesse they shall worke vpon the party for his reliefe according to the more or lesse deuotion and deseruing in this life Therefore this trueth of mutuall participation of the deade with the liue geueth no man occasion of idle rest or carelesse affection in his owne time and cause when he may be assured to lacke the reliefe of others to whome in his liefe by well working he woulde not ioyne before But I had rather ye hearde S. Augustine vttering expressely this meaning of mine in his owne wordes It can not be denied sayth he but that the soules of the deceased be relieued when the sacrifice of our redemer is offered for them or almes bestowed in their behalfe in the Church But in deede these are profitable to none but to such as in their life deserued that those things after their departure might doe them good For there is a state of life that is neither so perfect but it may well haue neede of these helpes after death not yet so very euill but such thinges may well succour them after their departure Mary there is a kinde of conuersation so vertuous that it requireth no such ayed and an other kinde so wicked that those which passed their former life therein can haue after their passage no reliefe by such meanes for by our merites in this life we do obteine that after our deaths we may either atteine to remedy or els be voide of all helpes For it is a very vaine hope that any man should presume to winne that at Gods hand after he be passed out of this worlde which when he was in the worlde he neuer sought nor deserued And a litle after thus he maketh all plaine VVhen the sacrifice of the altar or els any kinde of almes be offered for all men departed being baptised for the very good they are thankes giuing for the indifferent that be not very euill they are a mercyfull deliueraunce For the wicked and very euill all though they be no succour for them which be departed and deade yet they are confortable for those that be aliue And to such as receiue benefite thereby either commeth full forgiuenesse or els their iudgement and damnation is made thereby somewhat more tolerable The which sentence almost in like wordes for that it merueillously opened this matter this author repeteth in the fourth question ad DulcitiuÌ„ and els very often VVhereby the faithfull man may learne both how much and whome these remedies do relieue And then that the Church in his dayes offered sacrifice for all those that were baptised and in the faith thereof departed both for that it was vncertaine who had neede thereof and also because euen then when the parties were not nor coulde not be partakers thereof that Gods glory notwithstanding was excedingly set forth and man comforted thereby Therefore Gods Church in a true sense may be saide to offer sacrifice euen for the holy and blessed martyrs who no doubt by sheeding of their bloude for Christes name and defense of vnitie be fully purged in this their death and so perfectly released of all sinne paine that might otherwise haue deserued punishment and some expectation of Gods mercy in the life to come For so S. Cyprian and other of his Church offered sacrifice for Celerne Laurence and Ignatius as he testifieth him selfe Sacrificia pro eis semper vt meministis offerimus quoties martyrum passiones dies anniuersaria coÌ„memoratione celebramus For them we offer sacrifice as often as we celebrate the yearly memories of martyrs For which kinde of perfect men sacrifice is thankes geuing vnto God for their glory and giftes of grace and a kinde of intercession to them in our necessities For which cause S. Augustine affirmeth Quòd pro martyribus non oramus fed ipsi oranâ— pro nobis VVe pray not for martyrs but they pray for vs Nowe the sacrifice often celebrated for the wicked also that be not knowen to the Church so to be is not beneficiall to them neither because their naughty life and death makes them
aultar And therefore seeing Victor contrary to the forme giuen by the Priestes in councell was so bold to make Geminus Faustinus an elder his executor there is no cause that oblation should be made among you for his falling a sleepe or that any prayer in his name should be frequented in the Church c. By these wordes it appeareth first that Cyprian in these termes sacrifice Priest aultar alludeth to the sacrifices of thankesgiuing in the lawe because he vseth also that name of Leuites by which he calleth Gods ministers For as for the sacrifice propitiatory was offered in the law only by the high Priest once in the yeare So that he meaneth no other oblation or sacrifice for the dead but the sacrifice of thankesgiuing which was for their godly departure And therefore he calleth it not a sacrifice for their sinnes but for their falling a sleepe And by prayer he meaneth nor prayer for deliuery of the deade out of purgatory but as Origen sayth for the faithfull liuing to haue the like godly departure as he had that was fallen a sleepe And therfore he sayth not that such a one is not worthy to be praied for but he is not worthy to be named in the prayer which was made for them that remayned to ende their dayes happily as such a one or such a one whose names were recited in those memories had already fulfilled their course For otherwise what so euer M. Allen iangleth of the seueritie of the churches discipline if they had thought the soules of the departed to be in so great torments and that prayer and sacrifices had bene such a necessary helpe for them it had bene â—o much crueltie for one offence that not so great either to condemne a man to so horrible punishment or to deny him vtterly all maner of helpe and comfort The discipline of the Church when it is most seuere is to bring to repentaunce them that are in life not to rage against them that are deade which can not repent Nor to reiect any man vtterly but him that is certainly knowne to be vtterly forsaken of god But this Geminius Victor of whom Cyprian thus writeth was a good Christian in somuch that Cyprian him selfe calleth him his brother Geminius Victor frater noster de saeculo excedens Our brother Geminius Victor departing out of this world c. Wherfore if the punishment had extended to the torment of his soule or the hinderance of reliefe vnto his soule being in tormentes the Churche would not haue bene so rigorous against a faithful brother for mayntenance of their owne decree which was not expresly forbidden by the word of god Wherefore it may appeare that this punishment was only a note of ignominy to Victor him selfe for his transgression at his departure especially an example for the rest of the brethren as Cyprian sayth that they cal not away the ministers of God from his seruice to worldly affayres lest they be likewise noted of infamy when they are deade 5 And here nowe our aduersaries must be called vpon and asked howe they can away with this geare whether this light of trueth be not ouer vehement for their bleared eyes owle light or moneshine I trow or mirke midnight were more fit for their darke workes and doctrine our waye is ouer much trodden for theeues All this course of our cause so agreeth with it selfe so standeth with reason so vpholden by scripture so ordered in all pointes that Momus him selfe coulde practise no art nor picke no quarelles here For such we must praye for those we must not praye in this case the sacrifice of Gods Church relieueth the departed in that case it is comfortable onely to the liuinge some men neede helpe after their death others helpe we neede and not they ours for open infidelles and heretikes prayers are not vsed for all secret offendres because their case is not knowen to the Church of charity towardes her children she openly prayeth some she punisheth some she pardoneth for all she merueillous tenderly careth This doctrine of trueth is purposely ordered by our elders euery point is touched and tried to our handes VVhat time of the day was it in Gods Church saye trueth and shame the deuill when holy Cyprian wrote these thinges when the Councell of Aphricke decreed these thinges when Victor was punished by lacke of sacrifice and prayers at his departure doeth your time of ignoraunce which you haue limited for your walke reach vp so high in Gods house but I will spare you to anone your aunswere is not ready 5 And here now our aduersary must occupy his goose quill like the gooses trumpet to awake vs to aunswere him as though we were a sleepe or he so well appoynted to fight against vs we must be asked howe we can away with this geare Surely as the sunne is not obscured with the dust that a cocke casteth vp wheÌ„ he scrapeth on the dunghill no more is the sonne of righteousnes our onely ful redemption or the light of his holy word darkned by all the myste of mennes deuises which Allen or his complices can rayse out of the whole heape of superstition and errour to deface the glory of his truth The Lord is our light and saluation therefore we will not be a feard of purgatory The word of the Lorde is a light vnto our steppes and a lanterne vnto our feete therefore we will not walke in the darkenes of mens traditions Our workes and doctrine shall one daye be tryed before God and therfore we make no accompt how we be iudged by mans daye and lest of all by such a mans dome as hath his tongue more ready to rayle and sclaunder then his hearte instructed to discerne and iudge your way is your owne way and not the way of the Lorde and because you take an other way vnto saluation then the onely right way Iesus Christ therefore by his owne sentence you are all theeues and murderers But because you gather your forces together to shew the strength of your cause I will also generally shew your feeblenesse to the ouerthrow of your purpose The course of your cause you say so agreeth with it selfe What els To proue that there is purgatory you vrge the satisfying of Gods iustice so extremely that beside the suffering of Christ and forgeuenes of sinnes yet there must needes be a suffering of the party that offended But when you will shew by what meanes this suffering maye be either mitigated or cleane taken away you cleane take away the extremitie of Gods iustice which before you so earnestly maintained O worthy agreemeÌ„t of your cause with it selfe Beside the agreement with it selfe it so standeth with reason Suerly howe reasonable so euer it seemeth to you that the merites of men shoulde winne that which the merites of Christ coulde not winne that the suffering of men shoulde satisfie for that which the suffering of Christ coulde not satisfie with the
in that honorable action prayeth and Christ him selfe is both the sacrifice and the priest both the asker and the geuer of pardon when the maiesty of God the blessed trinitie is passingly pleaced by the merites of Christes death so liuely set out in these honorable but vnspeakable misteries what maye we not here procure for the soule of the Churchies childe what shall be denied to so humble askers in the presence of Gods owne sonne and begging mercy for his deathes sake And so doth S. Chrysostome assure the faithfull in these golden wordes Non frustra ab apostolis sancitum est vt in celebratione venerandorum mysteriorum memoria fiat eorum qui hinc discesserunt nouerunt quippe illis multum hinc emolumeÌ„ti fieri multum vtilitatis stante siquidem vniuerso populo manus in coelos extendente coetu item sacerdotali verendoque proposito sacrificio quomodo deum non placaremus pro istis orantes It was not for nought that the Apostles decreed and ordeined that in the celebration of the honorable mysteries there shoulde be an especiall memoriall of the departed for they right wâ—ll knewe greate commodity and benefite to arise there vpon For the whole multitude holding vp their handes towardes heauen together with the company and quiere of priests and the dreadfull sacrifice set forth before all men how is it possible but we shoulde appeace Gods wrath praying for them looke ye what this mans iudgement was and see from whense he had it euen of the holy Apostles â–ª I warraunt you and no worse nor later founders But of that pointe for the full deriuing of our Christian vsage from the first fathers of our faith more conuenient place shall be geuen herafter Nowe I will serue the cause and the readers desire first with certaine peculiar examples of most learned and godly fathers worthy of all credit in the godly prouision for certeine of their dearest friendes by sacrifice and prayer both made by them selues procured by others That we may haue here not onely whome to beleeue teaching the trueth but whome to followe practising the same with deuotion which they preached with constancie before 5 Not altogether out of hope yet to find some foolish merchantes that will paye dearly for vnprofitable wares you comforte your selfe after your complainte exhorting men to procure the holy sacrifice for their freindes and fellowes why M. Allen if there be either such necessity or such profit of that sacrifice wherefore doe not your priests with out procurement offer it vp to the vttermost aduauntage that maye be had by it But you must haue procurers yea you must haue good paye maisters or els the olde prouerbe must be true No peny no pater noster As touching the place of Chrysostome I haue shewed already by his owne interpretation that although he allow prayers for the dead vsed in time of the celebration which he calleth sacrifice yet he alloweth no sacrifice in deede but onely a thankes geuing in remembraunce of the sacrifice of Christ. But where he sayeth it was decreed by the Apostles that in the celebration of the holy misteries a remembraunce should be made of them that are departed he must pardon vs of crediting because he can not shewe it out of the actes and writinges of the Apostles And we will be bolde to charge him with his owne saying Hom. De Adam Heua Satis sufficere credimus quicquid secundum predictas regulas Apostolica scripta nos docuerunt vt prorsus non opinemur Catholicum quod apparuerit prefixis sententijs contrarium we thinke it sufficeth enough what so euer the writinges of the Apostles haue taught vs according to the fore sayed rules in so much that we compt it not at all Catholike what so euer shall appeare contrary to the rules appointed And againe In Genes Hom. 58. Vides in quantam absurditatem incidunt qui diuinae scripturae canonem sequi nolunt sed suis cogitationibus permittunt omnia Thou seest into how greate absurdity they fall which will not follow the canon of holy Scripture but permitt all thinges to their owne cogitations but if we be further vrged we will alledge that which he sayth In Euan. Ioan. Hom. 58. Qui sacra non vtitur Scriptura sed ascendit aliunde id est non concessa via fur est He that vseth not the holy Scripture but clymeth an other way that is by a way not allowed is a theefe We may be as bold with Chrysostome as he sayd he would be with Paule him selfe in 2. ad Tim. ho. 2. Plus aliquid dica ne Paulo quidem obedire oportet si quid dixerit proprium si quid humanum sed Apostolo Christum in se loquentem circumferenti I will say somewhat more we must not be ruled by Paule him selfe if he speake any thing that is his owne and any thing that is humane but we must obey the Apostle wheÌ„ he carieth Christ speaking in him Wherfore seeing it is certayne by testimony of Iustinus Martyr that there was no mention of the deade in the celebration of the Lords supper for more then an hundreth yeares after Christ we must not beleue Chrysostome without Scripture affirming that it was ordeyned so by the Apostles That the practise of any pointe in religion maketh the most open shevve of the fathers faith And that all holy men haue in plaine vvordes and most godly prayers vttered their beliefe in our matter CAP. IX 1 ANd I take the open practise of any point to be a more pithy protestation of a mans faith then by wordes can be made Therefore if a man were doubtfull either of the trueth of any article or of the meaning of some doctors wordes looke the same mans practise and it shall put him out of doubt thereof straight wayes as for an example seeme some wordes of S. Augustine to make for the sacramentaries heresie that Christ is in the honorable sacrament but by figure or Theodoretus or any other auncient fathers declaration are their wordes doubtfull to the reader leaue the wordes then if thou sincerely seeke for trueth with out contention seeke out if thou can some practise of those same men and that Church where they liued for the same point But what waye of worke in this matter consisting in doctrine may assure vs of their belefe of whose wordes we doubted before Mary sir this looke how they behaued them selues in the receiuing of it in the ministering of it in the carefull keping of it whether they did adore it with godly honour whether they solemnely shewed it to the people to be worshipped whether they praide by solemne and formall wordes vnto it whether they taught their children to call it God and Christ yea so farre that Augustine affirmeth that the children in his dayes till they were after instructed thought that God appeared in the shape of breade as all these yongers seeing the honour reuerence of their elders
and them selues nurtered to holde vp their handes and knocke their breastes must yet needes meruail how these outward formes came to so holy an vse further whether the Christian people were not sclaundered for worshipping and doing sacrifice to Ceres and Bacchus when the wicked infidells sawe their behauiour towardes the holy Hoste whether it was not vsed in working of miracles in driuing away deuills in daungerous times of tempests of trauelling of sickenesse and in other necessities VVell these be plaine practises no heretike can denie but they haue bene so vsed of the whole Church of God with many such other like in that holy action which can not in any case stande with bare breade or any other way of presence but onely the proper true and bodily presence of Christes owne person A doctors wordes may be misconstrued may be picked out of place may be writhen and wastred by false teachers but a mans example can not lightly be misconstrued And therefore heretikes whose purpose is alwayes by sutteltie to deceiue the simple will neuer make discours by the practise of the Church or exercise and example of the auncient learned men through out the Church of Christ hauing enough for their meaning to racke a place or two out of the fathers whole workes that may seeme to the ignoraunt to set forth their errour So if thou woulde knowe whether that place that our aduersaries impudently doe alleage out of Gregory the great against the soueraignty of the see of Rome was in deede written for their seditious purpose beholde the practise of the same father and thou shal s finde him selfe exercise iurisdiction at the very same time when he wrote it in all prouincies Christianed through out the worlde both by excommunication of byshoppes that gouerned not well by often citation of persons in extreme prouincies by many appeales made vnto him by continuall legacies to other nations sent either to conuert them to the faith or to gouerne in their doubtfull affaires and by all other exercise of spirituall iurisdiction Is it not now a very false suggestion to the poore people that this blessed man in so plaine vtteraunce of his meaning by workes and not by wordes shoulde yet be brought as a witnesse to condemne him selfe though the wordes being well vnderstande make for no suche meaning in deede as by others it hath bene sufficiently declared The like impudencie it is to alleage S. Bernarde against the Masse or the presence of Christ in the blessed Sacrament Good man I dare say for him he sayde Masse euery daye if he were well at ease For other busines did not commonly let them in those dayes from that worke of all other most necessarie So the reciting out of S. Ambrose for the improuing of inuocation of holy Sainctes is no more but an abuse of the simples ignorance knowing well that he and all other of that time did practise prayers both often to all holy martyrs and sometimes peculiarly to such whome for patronage they did especially chuese of deuotion amongest the rest I speake not this that any might hereby iudge the doctors wordes to stande against their owne deedes but that euery man maye perceiue that where the workes and practise of all men be so plaine their words in some one place founde darke can not by any meanes be preiudiciall to that trueth which in all other placies they plainely set forth by wordes and by the euident testimonie of their owne practise to the worlde proteste the same Therefore I woulde exhorte all men in Christes name for their owne saluations sake to take heede how they giue credit to these libelles conteining certaine wrasted places out of the doctours workes against any trueth which by the further discourse of vsage and practise they are not hable before the learned to iustifie And therefore that all mistrust of vntrue dealing maye be farre from vs I will as I saide let them haue the feeling and handling of our cause throughly They shall behold in examples of most noble personagies both for their name vertu and learning the peculiar practises in praying and Masse saying for the deade both in the auncient Greeke and Latine Churchies CAP. IX 1 NOwe shall we haue the practise and examples of the olde fathers concerning sacrifice and prayer for the dead And here M. Allen before he commeth to the matter maketh much a do to shew how much more certayne the practise is then the wordes of any doctor because the wordes may be mistrusted or wrested the practise can not be altered As though he could shew vs any practise but that which is vttered in their wordes in which if there be any obscuritie or improprietie there shall be as great cōtrouersie of their workes as of their doctrine as they vsed the name of sacrifice in their teaching so they vse it in declaring what they did practise according to their teaching And therefore it is not worth a straw that M. Allen thinketh we may knowe their meaning rather by their practise then by their wordes except he could either in picture or in vision describe vnto vs euery thing that they did But let vs consider the examples of those thinges which he bringeth in to proue that practise is more certeyne then wordes First he can not deny but the wordes of Augustine and Theodoretus stand with vs that the sacramēt of Christes supper is a figure of his body and bloode and not the same naturally But the practise must expound the words not to stand with vs For they did so carefully keepe it adore it shew it to be worshipped prayed to it yea they taught children to call it God and Lorde which they would not haue done if they had not beleued it to be the very body of christ For this is cited 1. Theodoret. Dial. 2. in the margent His wordes be not set downe because they be directly against transubstantiation and nothing fauouring the grosse imagined presence of Christes body in the sacrament for he calleth the sacrament signa mystica the mysticall signes and the diuine mysteries which represent the body of Christ that is a true body and not fantasticall or absorpt of the diuinitie as the Eutichians dreamed wherefore it is playne that the adoration he speaketh of is nothing else but the reuerent estimation of the sacrament to be that which by Christ it is ordeyned to be and not any knocking or kneeling as M. Allen would haue vs beleue Augustine also vppon the 98. Psalme is cited belike to proue the adoration who in deede alloweth the adoration of the body of Christ whereof that is a sacrament but neither can you proue out of that place that he would haue the sacrament honored nor that the sacrament is the very body of Christ but euen in the same place speaking of the sacrament he sayth in the person of Christ non hoc corpus quod videtis manducaturi estis bibituri illum sanguinem quem fusuri sunt
gaue in commaundement that a memory should be had in the prayers of the Church for him as the custome was that all byshoppes after their death shoulde haue Here is now open practise of that which by wordes we proued before here is an euident testimonie of the vsage of the Greeke Church for the buriall of bishoppes and generall custome of keping their memoriall in the publike prayers and seruice of the Church It were not needefull to recite out of Eusebius the forme of Constantinus his funeralls kept in the same Church with solemnity of sacrifice singinge lightes and prayers Nor the buriall of the Emperour Constantius who as Nazianzenus writeth was brought forth with common prayses of all men with singing lightes and lampes all the night longe very honorably with which thinges saith he we Christian men thinke it a blessed thing to honour the memories of our freindes departed And if the aduersaries woulde here contentiously reason that these solemne rites of Christian burialls be nothing profitable or if the simple aske why they be profitable S. Chrysostome may instruct such as list learne and correct the other that list reprehende in these wordes Tell me saith he what all these festiuall lights in the buriall of the deceased meane what all this singing of Hymnes and Psalmes signifieth to what ende be so many priestes and musicians called together to which in fine he thus aunswereth do we not all these thinges to geue thankes to God and euerlasting glory that he hath deliuered the departed from the troubles of this mortall life do we not this to our comforte and honour of the departed And in the buriall of the Noble matrone Paula how the priestes did sing how the bishops of Hierusalem and of all Palestine and Syria for the most part caried torches how the religious both men and women did the rites of the dirigies how her almes folkes shewed their cotes to procure mercy euen as they did at Dorcas departure in the Actes of the Apostles how they cōtinued their singing and saying seuen dayes together at the Church in Bethleem where she was buried S. Hierom him selfe a true record thereof beareth witnesse in the like wordes as I haue recited and many moe which the feare of weereing the reader causeth me full sore against my will to omitte They so set forth not onely the substance of the thinge which standeth in prayer and sacrifice but also do proue against the enemies of good ordre that the smallest ceremonies that our Churchies of late haue vsed were not lately taken vp by our couetousnesse and superstition but with more aboundance and numbre and continuance and solemnytie practised in the flour of Christes Church in diuers principall partes of the worlde as at Hierusalem and Constantinople by the praysing and approuing of the grauest fathers of our faith 2 Why M. Allen what a mockery is this do you make bragge in the title of your chapter that you will shewe the practise of all holy men in words and prayers for the dead and nowe beginne your examples no higher then at Chrysostomes translation which was well neare 400. yeares after Christ The people with great plenty of lightes brought Chrysostomes body to Constantinople VVell this ceremony in carying torches at burialls being taken of the Gentiles they vsed to honour the memory of them that were deade as the ceremonies of the Heralds are vsed for the same ende What more The Emperour prayed for his fathers and mothers soules and as M. Allen thinketh but the story sayth not so he prayed to S. Chrysostome for them What else Atticus caused masse to be sayd for him that maketh vp all But where is any mention of masse or sacrifice of the masse M. Allen Are you such a cunning interpreter to expound celebrare sacra solemnia to say masse In deed such interpretations will help you well to finde that which else you might seeke long enough in the olde writers and goe without for all your labour It is all one with M. Allen to celebrate holy solemne seruice to say masse But you will say memory was made of him in the prayers so might there be and yet his soule not praied for ▪ but how agree you with your selfe M. Allen your opinion is that Theodosius praied to him as to a sainct in heauen howe then did Atticus cause him to be prayed for as one lying in purgatory I wisse you forget your selfe to much to vtter things so contrary so neare togither And as for the funeralls of Constantinus and Constantius what so euer you say haue no mention of Masse nor sacrifice of Masse In the buriall of Constantinus there is mention of prayer for his soule according to the error of the time and in the funeralls of Constantius there were lights but there is also shewed the vse of them as I haue touched already togither with the necessitie of some of them because they were lighted in the night The saying of Chrysostome with the example of the buriall of Paula shew nothing either of Masse sacrifice or prayer for the deade And whereas you bable of the rites of your popish dirige Ieronym saith al was singing of Psalmes and giuing thankes for her godly life happy departing Hebraeo Graeco Latino Syroque sermone Psalmi in ordine personabant Psalmes were song in Hebrewe Greeke Latine and Syrian language by course as there were diuers nations that came to honour the solemnitie of her funeralls Finally if your doctrine of purgatory were true yet Ieronym describeth her to be so perfect a woman as no prayers needed to be sayd for her her life was so full of good workes and her ende so full of faith And therfore M. Allen here is nothing for the sacrifice of the Masse whereof you made your promise to shew the practise in the chiefe partes of the worlde naming Ierusalem for one when Paula was buried at Betheleem and not at Ierusalem 3 And now S. Augustine being of Aphricke so farre from the other in distance of place yet ronneth ioyntly with them in religion He purposely writing of the solemne rites of Christian funeralls in that golden treatise De cura pro mortuis agenda thus after longe consideration of the whole cause determineth that the pompe of buriall with all such solemnyties as there vnto be in Gods Church ioyned is very seemely for that body which was the vessell of a Christian soule and an instrument or companion in well working whervnto it shall be also vnited in the resurrection for to receiue together the inheritance of the euerlasting kingdome But the lacke of these where they be not arrogantly contemned or can not be had is nothing hurtefull to the good nor the hauing any thing profitable to the wicked as the examples of Lazarus and the Riche man may well proue Therefore it is the sacrifice and prayers which properly do helpe or relieue the departed Curatio funeris sayth he
conditio sepulturae pompa exequiarum magis sunt viuorum solatia quà m subsidia mortuorum Non tamen ideo contemnēda abijcienda sunt corpora defunctorum maxime que iustorum fidelium quibus tanquam organis vasis ad omnia bona opera sanctus vsus est spiritus Curious prouision for the buriall and the pompe of the solemne obittes be rather done for the solace of the lieue then for helpe of the deade neuerthelesse the bodies of the departed namely of faithfull folkes may not be contemned or cast forth the which the holy Ghost vsed as vessells and instruments of well working By all which thinges it may well be noted that some thinges haue bene vsually practised in funeralls for thankes geuing to almighty God as Hymnes and Psalmes other some for decent comelinesse and solace of the liuinge as the place of the buriall the lights the ringing and such like although euen these things proceeding of loue and deuotion be after a sorte meritorious to the doers and a helpe to them for whome they be procured and good motions and memories of mans duety For which causies those and the like haue bene vniformelie vsed through out the whole Catholike Church from the beginning But the principall thinges perteining to the iustes of the departed be prayers and sacrifice and other such like whereby they are assuredly much proffited by release of their paines So saith S. Augustine in these wordes Non existimemus ad mortuos pro quibus curam gerimus peruenire nisi quod pro eis siue altaris siue eleemosinarum sacrificijs solemniter celebramus Let vs neuer thinke that any other thinge properly apperteineth to the reliefe of the departed sauing the solemne sacrifice of the altar almes and prayer And therefore as the saide holy doctour confesseth the worthinesse of the place where man is buried of it selfe profiteth not at all but in respect of the holy prayers which be there rather made then els where and the patronage of holy martyrs and sainctes to whome he nothing doubteth but intercession may profitably be made for the deceased for which cause as it may appeare by Paulinus men were very desirous euer in the primitiue Church to be buried by some blessed martyrs body And so must we thinke also of buriall by the reuerent holy sacrament that it wonderfully helpeth man not for the placeis sake although the deuotion of the desirer is therin commēdable but because the liuing may there effectually commende the departed to God in the time of the holy sacrifice may be put in remembraunce to call vpon Christes blessed person there present for the soule of that man which with care and study laide his body in the hope of resurrection by the soueraigne holy body that is already risen againe And this was the cause that our forefathers from Christes time till our dayes haue had respecte and desire as occasion serued to be buried there where by ordre prayers and sacrifice were daily had and where the patronage of holy sainctes might best be procured It is a high point of wisdome surely good reader onely to see what godly wisdome our fathers vsed in shew of their zele faith and Christianity As it is an vntollerable arrogancy and a singular signe of infidelity to laugh at and blaspheme those thinges whereof not the prowdest heretike that liueth hath any intelligence at all Obcoecauit enim eos malitia eorum For their owne malice hath blinded them 3 But let vs now followe you into Africa First you allege Augustine in his booke de cura pro mortuis agenda wherin he is so full of doubtes that he knoweth not him selfe what to determine but that he will hold the common opinion receiued in his time But this pasteth M. Allen that you will content your selfe with Augustines authoritie that the pompe of buriall c. profiteth not the deade but that you will haue lightes ringing c. proceding of loue and deuotion to help them for whom they are procured If you may goe beyond Augustine why may not we come short of him But in the 18. chapter he nameth the sacrifice of the aultar to be profitable to the deade This soundeth somewhat like the matter but if it be well marked it maketh nothing for the propitiatory sacrifice of the Masse for euen in the same place he calleth it the sacrifice of almes which is but a sacrifice of thankes giuing And that by this sacrifice he meaneth not the body of Christ nor a propitiatory sacrifice is manifest in his booke de fide ad Petrum diaconum cap. 19. where he sayth that Christ offered him selfe for vs that sacrifice whereby God was reconciled and that the Church offered to Christ the sacrifice of breade and wine in faith and charitie which is a thankes geuing and memoriall of his death The body of Christ is not offered to him selfe but thankes giuing is offered to him for the offering of his body for vs His wordes are Firmissimè tene nullatenus dubites ipsum vnigenitum c. Hold most stedfastly and nothing doubt then that the only begotten sonne of God being made flesh offered him selfe for vs a sacrifice oblation for a sweete fauour vnto God to whom with the father and the holy Ghost by the Patriarches Prophets and Priestes in time of the olde Testament beastes were sacrificed and to whom now that is in the time of the new Testament togither with the father and the holy Ghost with whom his diuinitie is all one the holy Catholike Church throughout all the worlde ceaseth not to offer the sacrifice of breade and wine in faith and charitie For in these carnall sacrifices there was a figuring of the flesh of Christ which he him selfe being without sinne should offer for our sinnes But in this sacrifice there is thankes giuing commemoration of the flesh of Christ which he offered for vs and of his bloode which the same God shed for vs Nowe for the other poynt of inuocation of Sainctes M. Allen affirmeth that S. Augustine neuer doubteth but intercession may be made vnto them for the deade who so euer will take paynes to reade the treatise de cura pro mortuis agenda shall find nothing else but doubtes and questions of that matter as cap. 5. Cum ergo mater fidelis filij defuncti corpus desyderauit in Basilicam martyris poni si quidem credidit eius animam meritis martyris adiuuari hoc quod ita credidit supplicatio quaedam fuit haec profuit si quid profuit Therfore when the faithfull mother desired the body of her faithful sonne departed to be layd in the Church of the Martyr if she beleued that his soule might be helped by the metites of the martyr this that she so beleued was a certeyne supplication and this profited if any thing profited Here Augustine doubteth whether supplications to the Martyr profite any thing or no. Moreuer he can not
mainteined perhaps by occasion of such vnproper speach as then was vsed of the sacrifice of the Masse and propitiation both of the quicke and the deade But that I may consider these places particularly whereof you make so great accompt First where you will vs to take our aduantage of your translation I say you haue falsyfied Augustines wordes and meaning in the latter ende of the first sentence to make fooles beleue that the priuate Masse was sayd in Augustines dayes as it is among you First you call memoriam sui fieri ad altare which is that remembraunce of her shoulde be made at the altar that a memory might be kepte for her as though she woulde haue her sonne to be a chauntry priest to sing for her c. Item you translate vnde sciret dispensari victimam sanctam where she knew the holy hoste was bestowed as though she had ment nothing but that the hoste was layed vpon the altar where as you should haue sayed from whence she knoweth the holy sacrifice was dispensed or ministred by which wordes it is manifest that the communion was daily receiued not of the priest alone but of all them that were present You are as bolde as one of your wisedome may be with such a man to will M. Grindall to looke in his grammer for Augustins figures but if I may be so bolde with so profound a clearke as you are I woulde desire you to looke in the etymologies of your grammer whether sui be for her and vnde where And if you can not proue these significations by that parte of grammer which is called Etymologie that you would defende them by that part of cunning where in you are better learned called Pseudologia but to the matter of this testimony we haue in this first remembraunce of her in the nexte we haue the sacrifice of our price offered for her In deede this soundeth more like the matter you would haue if S. Augustine had not before in plaine wordes expounded his meaning which is nothing else but that the communion was celebrated in ministration of which there was speciall remembraunce of her in the prayers as there was of all deade in the sayth a generall memory And if you aske me what figure S. Augustine vsed though I coulde referre it to diuerse figures yet it may best be excused by Acyrologia which is an vnproper kind of speaking to call that the sacrifice of our price which was but a thankes giuing for the sacrifice of our price which Christ onely offered once for all vpon the aultar of the crosse As Augustine him selfe when he speaketh properly will confesse The other two places proue nothing but prayer for the deade vsed by Augustine But that you may see all this was but superstition or will worship in him he him selfe in a maner confesseth as much in the same place where he prayeth most earnestly lib. Con. 9. cap. 13. Et credo quod iam feceris quod rogo sed voluntaria oris mei approba Domine And I beleeue that thou hast done already that which I pray for but Lord approue this voluntary offering of my mouth His meaning is to allude to the free will offerings of the lawe but in deede he declareth that he prayed not according to the rule appoynted by God but according to the corrupt motion of his owne minde As for the place of Possidonius proueth plainly that it was the sacrifice of thankes giuing that was offered for the commendation of the godly and quiet deposition or putting of of his body which he before describeth In steed of which M. Allen translateth for commendation of his rest as though he had bene out of rest sayth that not withstanding his holy life and godly departure yet euen that day the citie was taken had oblation for his rest But if the men of those dayes had bene of M. Allens opinion concerning purgatory they would not both haue compted Augustine for a perfect man and yet after his death to doubt of his rest Finally where he boasteth that none were saued in those dayes but in this fayth he followeth his owne vayne of lying and not any proofe of auncient writing For although they were in that tyme infected with some errours and that not so great as he chargeth them withall yet was the fayth of their saluation in the onely foundation Iesus Christ and not in merittes or Masses pardons or pilgrimage but in the onely mercy of god Tota spes mea sayth Augustine non nisi magna valdè misericordia tua Da quod iubes iube quod vis lib. con 10. cap. 29. Al my hope is nothing else but thy exceeding great mercy Giue that thou commaundest commaund what thou wilt That vve and all nations receyued this vsage of praying and sacrifycing for the departed at our first coÌ„uersioÌ„ to Christes faith And that this article vvas not onâ—ly conâ—irmed by miracle amongest the rest but seuerally by signes and vvounders approued by it selfe And that the Church is grovvne to such beauty by the fructes of this faith CAP. X. 1 MAny moe examples of these matters might be brought out of S. Gregory diuers out of Damascene enowe out of what writer so euer you like best such choise we haue in so good a cause whereof euery mans workes are full But I will passe ouer the rest that I may onely reporte one history out of our owne Church in the pure spring whereof the Apostolike faith aboundaÌ„tly ishued downe from the principall pastors of Gods Church with great spreade of religion which sith that time hath bewtified our country in all Gods giftes with the best And amongest many euident testimonies of this trueth with the practise therof both to be founde in Gildas and in holy Beda there is a straunge and a very rare example not onely for the plaine declaration of the vsage of our Church in the first foundation of our faith but for an open shew by miracle in this liefe how God releaseth of his mercye by the holy oblation at the altar the paines of the departed in the worlde to come It shall be comfortable to the Catholikes to consider this parte of our belefe to be confirmed by the miraculous working of God as all other lightly be in placies where the faith is first taught And that our whole faith which our nation receiued of S. Augustine the monke was so confirmed by the power of God not onely our owne histories do declare but S. Gregory him selfe affirmeth it writing his letters to Augustine in this sense that he should not arrogate any such wounderous workes to his owne power or vertue which then God wrought by him not for his owne holinesse but for the planting of Christes faith in the nation where those signes were shewde Beda therefore writeth this notable history of a miracle done not many yeares after our people was conuerted in the beginning of his owne dayes that in a
testifieth that the Gospell was preached in this lande in the reigne of Tyberius the Emperour proue vnto vs that Paule or Simon or Thaddeus or Ioseph or who so euer first preached the Gospell in this Ilande tought prayers or sacrifices for the deade Proue it I saye and the daye is yours for euer if you proue it not as neither you nor the deuill for you is able to doe it the worlde may see your swelling bragges to be nothing but blowen bladders or bubles in which there is nothing but ayre as your wordes are nothing but winde yet are you not ashamed to name Gildas who as about the first conuersiō of the Britaynes to the faith he hath no worde of any such matters so where he complayneth of there ruyne and decaye he accuseth the priests of his time for sieldome sacrificing but of sacrificing for the deade he speaketh not although the error of praying for the deade were receiued in other places and whether this countrye were free from it I am not able to saye nor you to proue that it was infected with it And therefore hauing nothing to shew for six hundreth yeare◠almost in which this lande was neuer voyde of Christians you come in at last with the peruersion of the Saxons by Augustine that prowde cruell and vnlearned monke of whose pryde and cruelty our stories doe testifie at large his ignorance and vnskilfulnesse is bewrayed by him selfe in his writinges to Pope Gregory I force litle what miracles he wrought to cōfirme his errors neither doe I waye worth a flye that longe tale you tell out of Beda of him that had his cheines fallen o◠in Masse time That credulous and superstitious age had many such fayned miracles 500 such tales are toulde in vitas patrum serm discipuli legenda aurea the festiuall c. But make you no more accompt of Beda his graue authority then of those fayned fables suerly I make this accompt of Beda that if he had reported the matter of his owne knowledge I woulde haue credited the facte done and yet tending to the maintenaunce of false doctrine I would neuer the sooner haue bene moued from the trueth of Gods worde But when he reported it onely of heare saye and that not of the parties them selues that might haue bene witnesses but of them that hearde this one man tell it by him selfe it caryeth small credit with it I beleue that such a tale was tolde to Beda but what if they added some what to it that tolde him and what if he that tolde them lyed if Beda had not bene ouer light of credit him selfe he shoulde not haue put it in writing before he had perfect intelligence not only of the party him selfe but also of that Londiner and gentleman and those that kept him in prison But how so euer the matter weare true or false it is no proofe nor preiudice against the trueth of God vttered in the holy scriptures Let Augustine speake for vs in his booke ae vnitate ecclesiae against the Donatistes which boasted of miracles as the Papistes doe but Augustine will not allow them for sufficient proues with out the authoritie of the scriptures non dicat verum est quia ego hoc dico aut quia hoc dixit ille collega meus aut illi collegae mei aut illi episcopi vel clerici vel laici nostri aut ideo verum est quia illa illa ▪ mirabilia fecit Donatus vel Potius vel quilibet alius aut quia homines ad memorias mortuorum nostrorum orant exaudiuntur aut quia illa illa ibi contingunt aut quia ille frater noster aut illa soror nostra tale visum vigilans vidit vel tale visum dormiens somniauit c. Sed vtrum ipsi ecclesiam teneant non nisi diuinarum scripturarum canonicis libris oftendant c Let him not saye it is therefore true because I say it or such a one my companion sayed it or those my companions or those our byshoppes or clerkes or laye men or it is therefore true because Donatus or Pontius or any other did these or those miracles or because men praye at our dead mens memories and are harde or because these or these thinges doe happen there or because this our brother or that our sister sawe such a vision waking or dreamed such a vision sleeping c. but whether they holde the Church or no let them shewe none otherwise but by the canonicall bookes of the holy Scriptures This place M. Allen if it might take place with you might serue to cut of all controuersies not onely of purgatory but of the Church it selfe and what so euer is in question betwene vs But you are wise enough you will neuer venture your cause vppon that triall 2 VVe must here stay a litle and ponder in our mindes how our forefathers and people of our owne lande were taught in this article when they were first deliuered out of Sathans bondage and conuerted to the fellowship of Christes Church and let vs nothing doubt but that which our owne Apostles both by worde and worke by miracle and by martyrdome first proued vnto vs is the very true and unfallible faith of our Christianitie For if that were not true which at our first conuersion was preached vnto vs then we receiued not the faith but falsehoode at their handes then the histories doe make a lowde lye in testifying we were turned to the Christian faith both at that time and by such men then it were no conuersion from heathen Idolatrie to the worship of Christ but it were a chaunge from one superstition to an other and this latter so much worse then the other because vnder the name of Christ there were practise perpetuall of execrable sacrilege in instituting of a sacrifice to the defasing of our redemption in adoring bare breade as the hoste of our saluation in offering it vp to God for the sinnes both of the quicke and deade in practise of vnprofitable prayers for the soules deceased with the like false worship of God in all pointes Then their preaching was highly to Gods dishonour pernicious to the people and damnable to them selues Then haue all that euer ranne the rase of that faith and doctrine till this daye which they taught perished with them then are they founde false witnesses whome we haue accompted as our vndoubted true and lawfull pastors then God hath purposely deceiued vs with fayned miracles full many with numbers of vaine visions then all our labour is lost till this day The holynesse of so many good princies and priestes is praised in vaine the bloude of Martyrs shed in vaine the exercise of all sacraments in vaine and because all deuotion consisted in our fathers dayes in the earnest zele of so false a religion as they thinke this to be then the more deuotion the farther from Christ the lesse religion more neere to saluation then happy was he
lye in euery tryfling matter you are worthy to be deceiued And that you may see I doe him no wrong see I pray you how shamefully he lyeth in this matter whereof he maketh such impudent assurance He sayth the same men which brought in the fayth brought in the same order of seruice and planted the same supplication wherein they haue vniformly continued c take away the same order and ouerthrow the fayth which they taught But who doth not know that Chrysostom Basill Ambrose Gregory which he nameth to be the first auctors of those orders of seruice formes of supplication which before he commended were not the first that brought in the fayth into Cappadocia Thracia or Italy But the Apostles them selues and that those Churches continued more then 300. yeares with other formes of publike prayers and celebration of the sacraments before these men were borne And where he sayth there was euer found in the celebration of the sacrament beside oblation of the host for the quicke and the deade both particularly and generally a solemne prayer for all departed in Christ You must take it as the rest of his assertions which be euer more generall then their probations But to reproue his vanitie the order of prayers and administration of the holy misteries described by Iustinus Martyr in his second Apologie and of Tertullian also in his Apologetico doe sufficiently declare what was the vsage of the Christians in those purer times And although there be not set forth vnto them what forme of wordes they vsed in their liturgie yet is it expressed for whom and what they prayed Oramus etiam sayth Tertullian pro Imperatoribus pro ministris eorum potestatibus saeculi pro rerum quiete pro mora finis We pray also for the Emperours for their ministers and the powers of this world for the quiet state of thinges for stay of the end Likewise he sheweth to whom they made their prayers and what was the chiefest sacrifice that they did offer Haec ab alio orare non possum quam à quo sciam me coÌ„secuturum quoniam ipse est qui solus praestat ego sum cui impetrare debetur famulus eius qui eum solum obseruo qui ei offero opimam maiorem hostiam quam ipse maÌ„dauit orationem de carne pudica de anima innocente de spiritu sancto profatam These thinges I can not require of any other but of him of whom I know I shall obteyne For it is he alone which graunteth and I am he which should obteyne being his seruaunt which worship him onely which offer vnto him that principall and great sacrifice which he him selfe commaunded namely prayer proceding out of a chast body out of a harmeles soule and from the holy spirite This he speaketh comparing the prayers and sacrifice of the Christians with the prayers and sacrifices of the Gentiles But that I may returne to M. Allen which referreth the institution of prayer and sacrifice for the deade to Christ at his last supper to the secrete suggestion of the holy Ghost to the faithfull deliuery of the Apostles and the constant continuance of all nations Of whom will he be a feard to lye when he fathereth such a blasphemy vpon the Apostles vpon the holy Ghost and vpon Christ him selfe But let vs consider your Sorites Christ you say no doubt did institute it where is the warraunt of this vndouted institution you aunswere secrete suggestion of the holy Ghost howe come we to the knowledge of this secrete suggestion By tradition of the Apostles who is witnesse that this is the tradition of the Apostles Tertullian Cyprian Augustine Ieronym and a great many more But if it be lawfull for me once to pose the Papistes as you do often the Protestants I would learne why the Lord would not haue this doubtlesse institution and as you take it the most necessary vse of the sacrament plainly or at least wise obscurely set foâ—th by Matthew Marke Luke or Paule which all haue set forth the story of the action of Christ the institution of the sacrament and the ende or vse of the same If it were not meete at all to be put in writing why was it disclosed by Tertullian Cyprian Augustine c. If it were meete to be put in writing why were not those chosen Scribes Matthew Marke Luke Paule worthy of all credit rather appoynted for it then Tertullian Cyprian Augustine and such as you name But against this counterfect institution secrete suggestion and fayned tradition S. Paule cryeâ—h with open mouth to the Corinthians 1. Cor. 11. That which I deliuered vnto vnto you I receiued of the Lorde that the Lord Iesus the same night c. In which wordes he declareth without couler or couerture what was the true institution of Christ of what witnesse he receiued it with what fidelitie he deliuered it what the sacrament is and what is the right vse of it to condemne all maner of abuses what so euer may rise either to corrupt this onely true substance and onely right order of ministration or to peruert this onely right vse and proper ende thereof I knowe the Papistes will flie to those wordes of the Apostle the rest I will set in order when I come but that is so manifest to be spoken of matters of externall comlines and not of doctrine of the sacrament as prayers and sacrifices that no man which vnderstandeth what 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 doth signifie can doubt or make any questioÌ„ of it Now touching the credit and worthynesse of these whom he so highly extolleth as I woulde not goe about to diminish it if they were to be compared with vs so when they are opposed against the manifest worde of God and the credit of the holy Apostles the instruments of the holy Ghost there is no cause that we shoulde be caried awaye with them But the controuersie is not as M. Allen sayth of the authoritie of the scriptures in this matter but of the true meaning of them which it is more like that they being such men then we so farre inferior to them should knowe I aunswere they them selues for the most parte confesse that prayer and oblation for the deade is not taken at all out of the scriptures as Tertullian Augustine and other the rest that woulde seeke confirmation in the scriptures as Chrysostome and such like doe so manifestly wrest them to their purpose that the Papistes them selues are ashamed to vse those textes of scripture for their proofes And as for such places as the later Papistes woulde violently draw vnto their error they haue fewe or none of the olde approued writers which though they allow their error yet that so interpret them as the place 1. Cor. 3. and Matth. 5. And what a shamelesse creature is M. Allen to say the controuersie is about the true meaning of the scripture when he him selfe in the next leafe before affirmeth that prayer and
successions did euer chuse out for the warrant of their faith from amongest the reste the Roman Seate And now when there is no apostolike Church left in the whole worlde but it that they will seeke to Churchies whereof there is neither certainty nor succession when by plaine open dealing we may reduce and must needes referre our faith to that which was euer of all other most farre from falshoodde 3 Euery man in the primitiue Church compted the springe of his faith more pure if he coulde deriue it out of the holy Scriptures and shew the continuance thereof in any of the Apostolicke Churches whereof Rome was but one And condemned all heresies of nouelty or later string which coulde not bring the first author of their heresies eyther from any of the Apostles or apostolicke men which cōtinued in the doctrine of the Apostles as Tertullian doth in that booke De praescriptionibus aduersus haereses The like doth Irenaeus And that these men specially named the Church of Rome it was because the Church of Rome at that time as it was founded by the Apostles so it continued in the doctrine of the Apostles And these heretikes for the most parte had bene sometimes of the Church of Rome as Valentinus Marcion Nouatus But none of these fathers as M. Allen woulde haue it appeare was such a sclaue to the Church of Rome that what so euer pleased the Byshoppes of that Sea they were ready to accept For then woulde not Irenaeus so sharpely haue reproued Victor as Eusebius declareth of him Lib. 5. cap. 25. Cyprian woulde not haue taken vp Cornelius and Stephanus as appeareth by his epistles Hieronym woulde not haue bene so bolde to call Rome the purple whore of Babylon Praefat. ad Paulinū in lib. Didym Nor to compare the bishoppe of Eugubium with the bishop of Rome Euagrio nor to make the Church of England equall with the Church of Rome Nec iam altera Romanae vrbis ecclesia altera totius orbis existimanda est Et Gallia Britania Africa Bersis Oriens Indiae omnes barbarae nationes vnum Christum adorant vnam obseruant regulam veritatis Si authoritas quaeritur orbis maior est vrbe Neither must we thinke that there is one Church of the citye of Rome an other of all the worlde beside Both France and Britayne and Africa and Persia and the Easte and India and all barbarous nations worship one Christ keepe one rule of trueth If authoritie be sought the world is greater then one citye c. Loe Syr here is a Church and christianity and a rule of trueth with out the byshoppe of Rome with out the Church of Rome yea and contrary to the church of Rome For to them that alleged the custome of the church of Rome he sayth Quid mihi profers vnius vrbis cōsuetudinem what bring you me the custome of one citye and Augustine him selfe that knwe so well to fetch an heretike ouer the coles I trowe fetched Zosimus Bonifacius and Coelestinus byshoppes of Rome meetly well ouer the coles when he and his fellowes the byshoppes of Africa tooke them with plaine forgerie and falsification of the canons of the councell of Nice Consilio Milebitano Africano As for that which M. Allen compteth so strange is for lacke of skill and right iudgement For the same cause that moued those auncient fathers to appeale to the iudgment of the church of Rome moueth vs now to condemne the church of Rome of heresie wherefore did they reuerence the church of Rome Aske Tertullian he aunswereth because it had by succession reteined euen vntill his dayes that faith which it did first receiue of the Apostles Therefore it was a true Church therefore it was an apostolicke Church which because it doth not nowe neither hath done of many yeares and hath nothing to boast of but the empty names of many good bishops but thrise as many more of cursed Antichristes therefore it is nowe a false church and a company of heretikes departed from the auncient Romaines true and apostolicke faith 4 Bring my faith once to S. Gregory and the very streame shall driue me to S. Peter and Paule maugre all their beardes In which ordre of Byshops finde me one that set forth by decree any practise of contrary doctrine to that which his next predecessor did before him mainteine I will go seeke with the stray a newe mother Church to founde my faith vpon If all be in this succession salfe and sounde what a folly were it to forsake our owne mother and spring of our belefe to seeke other which haue often erred when they stoode and nowe be almost wholy decaide But yet it is wisedome for false teachers with all force to flie from so greate light as maye arise to the trueth by the recognising of that sounde succession and going the iuste contrary way from the olde doctors faith it is not to be thought straunge that they directly seeke to ouerthrowe that bulwarcke which they euer leaned vnto in the stormes of schisme and heresie The shrewes do knowe full well the might of trueth in that Seate and succession to haue beaten downe all their forefathers the heretikes of all agies They feare their fall whose steppes they follow They vtter much malice torment them selfe in euery sermon in vaine that Church feeleth no sore but in sorow of compassion towardes her forsakers she hath bidden greater stormes then this first by tyraunts then by heretikes last and most by the euill life of her owne Bishoppes In all which she yet standeth and euer riseth to honour as she is most impugned Their owne preaching hath singularly opened the might of God in the defense of that Seate of vnity VVhen they first beganne to touche and taunt the Pope in euery sermon in euery playe in booke and balate men that before liuing in faithfull simplicitie much medled not with his matters nor often hearde of his name beganne straight upon their busy ralinge to conceiue by reasonable discretion that there lay some greate grounde of matter and weight of trueth vpon that point which they coulde not digest in so many yeares bauling and barking at his name they saw the Pope euer in their way neuer out of their mouth and they doubted not but that singular hatred grew vpon some great importance and so admonished luckely by the aduersaries they sought the bottom of that perfecte and deepe hatered and found that it was the olde sore of the Arians and disease of the Donatistes and common to all heretikes they perceiued by S. Cyprian that the first attempte of such men was to driue awaye the pastor that they might with out resistance deuour and destroie the flocke And which was the pricke of all their endeuours to take from vs the acknowledging of the great and singular benefite of our conuersion to the faith that in stopping the heade of that condeth and plentifull well of our faith
wantonnesse in all their ordre of life for they are so dronken and drowned in heresie that they haue no sense of common reason VVhat a do had the magistrates to make these wylde men go in priestelike apparell to kepe their Rotchettes to obserue some steppe of antiquitie in their maners How they were driuen to tempre their lustes in prouision for some ordrely choise of their wiues that seeing them haue no respecte on what women they light that by Iustices of peace yet they might be bestowed if not well yet with their lesse dishonestie vpon persons not openly infamous Such fellowes are more fit to be gouerned then to beare rule ouer other in whome without constraint you shall neither finde comelynesse in maners ordre in life nor constancy in religion God of his mercye geue them some light to see their owne misery and spirite of humilitie to subiect them selues in time to Gods Church that is so carefull ouer them though to their owne great harme they so deadly hate her They can showe no cause in the world why they neede in any one pointe of all those which at this daye be in controuersie betwxit them and their owne mother rather to credit their owne phantasies then her graue authoritye which onely without farther questioning with obedieÌ„t children maketh more then all argument or eloquence of man in the earth 7 If the ciuill Magistrates haue thought good in some outward ceremony or vsage to beare with the infirmitie of the weaker sort of your side in hope to winne them it is a small matter for you that are the obstinate of that secte to triumphe vpon when all your blasphemous doctrine is abolished and nothing left but a fewe ragges of your robes to looke vpon And as for the iniunction for Priestes mariage was either to stoppe your slaunderous mouthes when godly ministers wiues should haue testimoy of their honestie by men of such credit or else to bridle the lust of your owne tounebulls the popish Priestes which when licence of whordom is denied them and liberty to marry permitted them would make no better choyse perhaps of their wiues then they did before of their women We can shew no cause in the world you say why we neede in any one poynt of controuersie depart from your Church yes M. Allen this one cause shal serue for all because your church is departed from the truth of Gods word and dare not abide the tryall thereof but will sitte like a proud dame in a chayre controll the Scriptures the ordinance of Christ and the commaundements of God him selfe But how so euer you boast of her fast sitting she shall downe she shall downe euen to the bottome of hell 8 And for such as maye for their simplicitie be soone deceiued by following other mens errors with whome the names of doctors or the onely bare bragge of scriptures are as good as the allegation of places Let them aske of their teachers howe they can shifte them selfe when they see the practise of Gods Church generally so plaine for all Catholike assertions as for the article of praying for the deade amongest many other the like is nowe before proued Call vpon them and aske them in earnest because it lyeth vpon thy saluation whether thou must giue any credit to the perpetuall agreement and consent of all auncient doctors If they saye yea desire them to aunswere first to all these places so euidently confirming our purpose that they can not abide any cloude or couer of mans sutteltye for their shifting to any forged sense If they can not yet let them alleage some place of any auncient writer them selues which do expressely denye purgatory or prayers for the deade as we for the confirming therof haue done in plaine termes with out crafte or colour many If they be not able to do so much yet go further with them aske them whether they haue any expresse wordes in scripture that denie prayers to be profitable for the deade not by a fonde gesse of their owne heades corrupt consciences or preiudicate mindes expounded to that purpose but I say by expresse words or at least which is liberty enough expounded for that meaning by any one man of all the antiquitie If they can alleage thee but one worde of scripture construed of any one I say in all ages to confirme their vnderstanding to be currant and not framed for their phantasie to serue the necessity of their cause be bolde to followe them I woulde not put them to the paines to make discourse throughout all ages churches times and doctors as we haue done but onely let them to kepe their credit and scholars and to saue their honesties bring but one or two of all that euer wrote in the compasse of Gods Church and thou maiest with lesse daunger and better reason follow their doctrine But there is no one such place I assure the good reader neither in scripture doctor nor councell nor countrie nor age sith the worlde beganne I will go so farre in this point where there was euer steppe of any true worship of God there was prayer founde for the dead also They can not shew me any forme of ministration in the Christian world that was approued which hath it not expressely if it be knowen that it was in deede the seruice of any auncient Church not corrupted by them selues The same I dare be bolde to auouch for the lawe of nature and Moyses because it is proued already All their bragging of the example of the primitiue Church the masses of other countries of the doctors of the scriptures of the councells is but an vntollerable delusion and abuse of the simplicity of such as be not skillfull in the authors whome they name For when the matter comes to an ishue when they be harde holden either in this or in any other matter theÌ„ the doctors whom they chalenged before the simple for their partakers were but men then they might erre then they haue learned onely to credit the holy Scriptures then there is nothing but Gods worde and booke with them which els full faine would haue the doctors consent out of whom it were but a meane place which they would not alleage for their purpose if it might be founde Then if deniall of all the doctors iudgements serue not their turne In accusationem ipsarum scâ—ipturarum conuertuntur they will not sticke boldely to condemne the holy Scriptures with all 8 Now the youngers must pose their maisters as M. Allen a passing good Logician doth teach them yea and that is more he will teach vs what to aunswere also but sauing his wisedome he must geue vs leaue to aunswere for our selues First if we be asked howe we can shifte our selues against the generall practise of Gods Church for all popish assertions and namely this of praying for the deade we aunswere that we deny the practise to be generall because we finde it not in the holy
prayer for the dead came from the Apostles then Tertullian could proue that oblation for the deade came from them To detest fasting on Sunday and to pray kneeling with diuerse like superstitions Tertullian referreth to the Apostles as well as prayer for the deade deny one and doubt of all the rest And whereas M. Allen vpon contemplation of Chrysostome wordes falleth into a hidden agony cryeth alasse alasse if he would consider what the same man writeth vpon the Epistle to the Philip. Hom. 3. he would not make so great mone the losse is not so great Procuremus eis aliquid auxilij modici quideÌ„ attamen iuuemus eos Let vs procure them some helpe in deede but small helpe yet let vs helpe them Loe M. Allen your owne doctor confesseth it is but smal help that can be procured by prayers almes or remembraunce of them at the celebration of the holy misteries You will say that soone after he sayth the Apostles that instituted such memory knewe that much commodity came to the deade Then see how soone he forgetteth him selfe when he followeth not the rule of holy Scripture Againe howe like you M. Allen that he alloweth not prayers nor the said memory to helpe them that were Catechumeni which were learning their catechisme and dyed before they were baptised S. Ambrose you say cap. 9. of this booke did pray and offer for Gratianus which was but Catechumenus and dyed before he was baptised Againe how agreeth this with your catholike doctrine which you boast is so well ordered to your handes that Chrysostome denyeth them prayers and alloweth them almes for their helpe Catechumenos verò neque isto solatio dignamur sed omni huiusmodi destituti sunt auxilio vno quodam dempto quo nam illo pauperibus illorum nomine dare licet vnde illis non nihil refrigerij accedet As for them that be Catechumeni we count them not worthy of so much as this comfort but they be destitute of all such aide except one What one is that we may giue some thinge for their sake to the poore whereof some refreshing shall come vnto them 6 But heare I pray you what notable wordes S. Damascen hath for the vtilitie and institution of these thinges The holy Apostles and disciples sayth he of our Sauiour Christ haue decried that in the dread soueraigne vndefiled and liuely Sacraments â—o he calleth the Masse there shoulde be kept a memoriall of those that haue taken their sleepe in faith the which ordinaunce vntill this day without gainsaying or controwling the Apostolike and Catholicke Church of God from one cost of the wide world to an other hath obserued and shall religiously keepe till the world haue an ende For doubtlesse these thinges that the Christian religion which is without error free from falshood hath so many ages and worldes continued vnuiolably not without vrgent cause those thinges I say are not vaine but profitable to man acceptable to God and very necessarye for our saluation Thus farre spake the doctor setting forth not onely his owne minde but the faith of a numbre of the peeres of Gods Church wherein to proue this doctrine to be catholike he fitly followeth the same way which Vincentius Lyrinensis gaue vs once for a rule to trye trueth by Prouing that it hath antiquitie as a thinge that came and hath continued euen from the beginning of the Christian religion declaring that it hath the consent of all nations because it is and hath bene practised through out all the costes and corners of the wyde worlde and last that it hath the approbation of the wisest and holyestmen that euer were in the Church of christ And more then all this that it shall so continue till the ende though it be for a time in some peculiar nations omitted because it is receiued into a parte of that worship of God which in the Church can not perishe 6 As for Damascene I know not wherefore his authoritie serueth but to fill vppe the number for neither is his credit nor his antiquitie comparable with the former we refuse not the rule of Vincentius Lyrinensis concerning antiquity so you can proue that it hath God to be the author the Prophets and Apostles As for witnesse vnder this antiquitie that which had an erroneous beginning shall haue a shamefull ending 7 And this prescription of trueth our aduersaires can not auoyde but with such vnseemely dealing as I trust they them selues now be ashamed of as all other reasonable men are For now let them come with brasen facies and blasphemous tounges and say that prayers for the deade be vnprofitable that the rites of the buriall be superstitious that to say the Masse and sacrifice to be propitiatory for the soules departed is iniurious to Christes death that the doctors praised the errours of the ignorant people of their dayes that they all erred and were deceiued that the Church of Christ hath bene ledde in darke ignorance till these our dayes let them bestowe these vaine presumptious wordes where they maye take place for nowe all wise men doe perceiue that all these haue their holy institution by Christ and his Apostles practised vniuersally in the primitiue Church embrased of all godly people and approued to be wholy consonant to Gods worde by the pillors of Christes Church who so consonantly agree together in this point as well for the practise and proofe as for the beginning therof that to dissent from them and trust in these reedes of our dayes were meere madnesse that are pufte to and fro with euery blast of doctrine that care not what they say so that they say not as other their forefathers sayed that had rather then they woulde geue ouer a singular opinion of their owne imagination refuse and denie the authoritie of so many notable wise auncient godly and well learned fathers whome we haue named Although we haue left out many of no worse iudgement plainely auouching these thinges to come into Christes Church and worship by the ordinaunce of his holy Apostles All which thinges if our aduersaries haue reade then they are in a most miserable and heuy taking that doe withstand an open knowen trueth and as I feare against their owne consciences too Or if they haue not reade these plaine assertions of all learned men sith Christes time then they are most impudent that so vainely bragge in a matter whereof they are not skillfull But I trust God will open their eyes and breake their prowde hartes to the obedience of his holy Church 7 Nay M. Allen your prescription is not yet proued that this geare came from Christ and the Apostles The oldest witnesse that you haue alledged fathered manifest fables vpon the institution of Christ the Apostles as you your selfe can not deny if you haue any conscience at all and therefore not sufficient to be credited for that you allege him Wherefore you may bestow where you list these swelling bragges
of Christes institution the Apostles tradition the vniuersall practise of the primitiue Church And what so euer great wordes beside you haue streyned your lunges to pronounce you haue sayd nothing for oblation or prayer for the deade to be the institution of Christ and all this geere but I may say the same for the drinking of milke and hony after baptisme for not fasting on Sonday ▪ or prayer on knees c by like vniuersalitie antiquitie consent authoritie 8 If the authors be past hope yet their followers shall take goodly occasion to forsake such wicked maisters and be ashamed of all their vndecent dealyng if they note and consider with me that the first preachers of this peruerse opinion were such that none of all their scholars durst euer for shame for the proofe of their assertion name their owne doctors And truely a man might well maruel why heretikes hauing some that did plainely professe their opinions had yet rather picke out some darke sentence of any one of our holy fathers whome they knowe to be directly against them then out of those same doctors of their owne which in expresse wordes make for them You shall not lightly heare an heretike that denieth praying to sainctes or holdeth with open breache of holy vowes alleage Iouinianus or Vigilantius Nor a Sacramentarie seeke for the authoritye of Berengarius or Wicleffe though they be of some antiquitie and without colour plainely doe mainteine the doctrine that so well lyketh them But they will trauell to writh with plaine iniurie to the author some sentence out of Augustine or Ambrose or some other that by their whole life and practise open them selues to the worlde to beleue the contrary and all this by some shewe of wordes for the bearing of their false assertions Marke it well I saye in heretikes that they can not for shame of them selues euer name any of the plaine auouchers of their owne opinions The cause is that the only vpholding of their opinions made them infamous to the whole posterity And if any honour grewe vnto them amongest the simple because they lacked not the wayes to procure the peoples consent with admiration of their eloquence or other plausible and populare qualities in their dayes yet trueth following time their same raised vpon so light causes easely decayd and the grounde of perpetuall infamie sattled in wise mens heartes by the wickednesse of their attemptes remained for a testimony to all posteritie of their shame and ignominie And this I speake not onely of the authors of our common sectes for they neuer atteined to any shade of famous report in their dayes because they coulde deceiue none but simple wemen but I meane by Arius him selfe and Pelagius with the like who in their owne time being of great esteeme amongest many whome they deceiued yet after their death more more they grew to shame and infamie so farre that who so euer were of their opinions afterward durste not yet for shame vse their name or authority for proofe of their owne doctrine See you not in our dayes howe freshe the name of Luther Caluin Bucer with that rable was amongest the rude people whome they had wonne either with speach or pleasure of licentious doctrine and loe nowe it decayeth in a maner or their bones be coulde The peoples sensies raueshed with the present pleasure of such as they hearde last like them so longe as they heare them afterwarde their memory remaineth onely to malediction Vidi impium superexaltatum eleuatum sicut Cedros Libani transiui ecce non est quaesiui non est inuentus locus eius I haue seene the wicked exalted and set vp as the Cedre trees of Libanus I passed by and loe out of hande he is no body I sought him and his abiding can not be founde VVho so euer shall seeke for our glorious preachers with in this C. yeare he shall finde them in such estimation then as their forefathers be nowe that is to say to be vnworthy the naming of their owne adherents if any of that secte liue and last so longe For let them neuer looke to come to the infamous fame of Arrius the best of all these secte maisters not worthy to be scholar to a hundreth of his followers Thus loe is the case of heretikes liked of fooles when they be alieue contemned of all men when they are deade 8 M. Allen marueileth and giueth a speciall note that we name not Iouinian Vigilantius Berengarius or VVickleffe to be the authors of our doctrine but rather hang vppon some sentence of Augustine or Ambrose and thinketh we are ashamed of the other In deede if we depended vpon any mens authoritie or that any man or men were the authors of our faith as it fareth with the popish faith we should be iniurious vnto them if we did not acknowledge our foūders as they doe some of theirs But seeing God him selfe is the father of that doctrine which we haue receiued by his holy word we neither boast vpon Augustine nor Ambrose when they dissent therefro neither are ashamed of Vigilantius nor Beringarius when they agree therewith We refuse not the truth that Tertullian Origin haue taught because they taught heresies also neither do we receiue the errors of Cypriā Augustin because they taught many points of true faith Onely the canonicall Scriptures are the rule by which we iudge of all men and their writings of all doctrine and the teachers therof It is a ridiculous thing that M. Allen like a cold Prophet taketh vpon him to tell what shall be thought of our preachers names within these hundred yeares But what so euer he prateth the memory of the righteous shall remayne for euer neither shall they be afrayde of any euill reporte their names are written in the booke of life which are ordeyned vnto eternall glory howso euer they be accounted of by the wicked of this worlde And yet there is no cause why we should not thinke that the names and writings of Luther Caluine and Bucer shal remayne in good account with Gods Church euen vntil they them selues shall come with Christ to iudge the worlde when in the meane time Eccius Pighius Cocleus and such other shall not be remembred but as obstinate withstanders of the truth and enemies of the Gospell 9 Now in the doctors of Gods Church it is cleane contrarie and no lesse worthy to be noted for our purpose for their honour and estimation rising vpon the sure vnfallible grounde of Gods trueth by yeares and time gathereth such force that not onely their memorie is in perpetuall benediction before God but their workes follow them in the mindes of their posteritie to their owne eternall praise and benefite of all their followers And which is much more to be woundered at they haue so passed enuy and malice of man that euen those which deadly hate them dare not but praise them And such as mislike their doctrine
whose workes the aduersaries woulde be glad of one likely sentence And whose life and doctrine are so glorious in Gods Church that their owne aduersaries raling at vs aliue yet dare not but with great feare once blemish their names departed Though sometimes it brastithe out in some one of them to their owne miscredit So beutifull is the light of trueth And on the other side howe miserable is their carefull case that followe and defende that doctrine the authors whereof they dare neither acknowledge nor name whome all good men with open mouth boldely doe reprehend and their owne scholars dare not defende Such a glorious maiesty this doctrine of theires beareth that pricketh vp with pryde those that be alyue and blotteth out of honest memorie her doctors that be deade 10 Nay M. Allen though those doctors build some hay or stuble vpon the onely foundation Christ their case is ten thousand times better then yours which build nothing but dirt and donge tempered with hay and stuble vpon no foundation at all except it be the sande and seeke by all meanes to digge vp the onely true foundation of our fayth Iesus Christ making him nothing better then a common person except his bare name and woe may be to such Catholikes as can finde nothing but hay and stuble where such store of precious matter is and the most precious corner stone the foundation of all excellency And happy be those which not regarding the streames of waters that runne through the vaynes of earth but seeking to the onely fountayne of heauenly truth conteyned in the holy scriptures haue certeyne comfort of saluation while they are aliue and sure possession of felicitie with Christ as soone as they are dead yea which dye not at all because they beleue in Christ which is life nor enter into iudgement but passe from death of this body which is temporall vnto life of body and soule which is eternall The first Author of that secte vvhich denieth prayers for the departed is noted his good condicions and cause of his error be opened vvhat kinde of men haue bene most bent in all ages to that secte And that this heresy is euer ioyned as a fit companion to other horrible sectes CAP. XIIII 1 BVt yet because they haue diffamed our practise in praying and offering for the deade by referring it to a later origine then the Apostolike authority and tradition seeing we haue fathered our vsage vpon such as the aduersaries dare not blame we will helpe them to seeke out the fathers of their faithles perswasion lest by the feare and bashfullnesse of their owne scholars they be vnkindly forgotten Mary to finde out these obscure loyterers it will be somewhat painefull because as theeues doe they kepe by wayes and lightly treade not in honest mens pathes For the finding out of recordes for the testimony of our trueth we kepte the day light the high waye of Gods Church All the knowen notable personages in the holy Citye of God offered them selues both to witnesse and proue with vs VVe droue this trueth from our dayes through the middest of that holy communitie which S. Augustine calleth the Citye of God and our aduersaries will not saye otherwise but they were the liuely membres of that happy and heauenly fellowship VVe brought the practise of it to the holy Apostles by plaine accompte we went with the trueth of our cause to the lawe of Moyses from thense by like light to the lawe of nature But nowe for the other sorte we must leaue the cytie of God and the fellowship of these noble personages of doctors Apostles Prophets and Patriarches and seeke on the lifte hande in the other citye which is of Augustine named the citye or common welth as a man might call it of the deuill in which body all practise of mischiefe and origin of error ishuing from that vnhappy heade to the corrupt and deadly limmes thereof is to be founde VVe shall heare of the aduersary perswasion then in the company of Anabaptistes of Arrians of Saduceis of Epicures where so euer the weedes of the common enemies corrupte seede groweth there shall we find amongest breares and brembles this choking weede with all For as the true preachers the Apostles of Christ Iesu did sowe in the beginning of the Christian church which was the springe of the worde of lyfe and trueth amongest other heauenly seedes of true doctrine that profitable practise for the reliefe of such as were hense departed in the sleepe of peace with the decent ordre which euer fithens the Catholicke Church hath obediently followed euen so Inimicus homo superseminauit zizania the common enemy came afterwarde and ouersewe darnell and cockle either for the vtter choking or else for the especiall let of that good seede which the Maister of this fielde by his houshold seruauntes had plentifully sowen before This common aduersarie as our maister him selfe expoundeth it is the Deuill who as he in all other thinges beneficiall to mankinde is a great staye so Christian mens commoditie in this point he notably hindereth by his wicked suggestions and deuilish deuise whereby he prouoketh many vnder the shewe of Gods word or bare name therof for that is the lambes cote which this wyely wolfe boroweth to maske in to be vnkind vnnaturall and with out all godly affection towards their departed frendes The which contrary corrupt seede of false doctrine we right well know came of the sayd aduersary because it was long after ouersowen learning further of Tertullian Id verum esse quodcunque primum id adulterinum quod posterius That to be true that was first taught and that to be false and forged which came latter CAP. XIIII 1 WHen the Apostolike writing can not be shewed it is but the poynt of an heretike to boast of Apostolike tradition So did the Valentinians although their heresie were newe when they were confuted by the Scriptures shrowed them selues vnder the name of traditions as we haue shewed before out of Irenaeus lib. 3. ca. 2. And therfore it is but vayne bragging that you promise to seeke out any other fathers of our perswasion then the Apostles of Christ by whose holy writings we neuer refuse to be iudged what if any heretike haue affirmed some thing that is true is truth worse in an heretikes mouth The deuills them selues confessed christ Their confession was true their testimony was refused So if any heretike haue confessed the truth we may receiue the truth and yet reiect his testimony For truth hath testimony of God his word and whether it be affirmed or denyed by the deuill it is all one The high way that you prate of is a bye way for the Scripture is the onely high way to the truth with the guidance of Gods spirite And yet that way which you haue taken hath so many hills and holes woods and thickets that you haue rather flyen ouer it in a dreame and imagination
not nowe that they renounce all that helpe of Councells Doctors which with vauntes they clamed before whiles they impudently make a diuision or contrarietie betwixt them and the holy scripture And we take it at their hand as an open acknowledging of their lacke there where they pretended greatest store The which thinge if they likewise would confesse openly in pulpit and in plaine words as they meane nothing lesse when they shew the people that they were but men that they might erre that they followed the custome of the common people in their time that they are not to be receiued but where they agree with scripture that them selues must try whether they be consonant to the word of God or no if they would I say without such cloked wordes bouldly pronounce as Luther their maister did that they cared not for a hundreth Augustines or Hieroms that they esteemed not the consent of all nations that they would be tryed by the iudgement of no coūcell that they would purposely runne contrary to the Councells decree in all causes that they would take that for thonely truth which is conteined in the holy Scriptures and that for Scripture which them selues thought good and last of all that for the true meaning which agreed best to the vpholding of error and heresie then would the people leaue these lewde masters on the plaine field which now they keepe with them one while by the praises of the doctors and antiquitie and somewhiles by thabasing of them againe and deceitfull referring all to the onely Scriptures to which they say credit may safely be giuen where the doctors without daunger can not be further followed then as they be not found to disagree with Gods word So that the cause seemeth now to be driuen to this ishue in the eyes of thignorant whether men should rather beleue the Scipture or the doctors the word of God that can not be false or the fathers that were but men and therfore might erre deceiue and be deceiued 3 But that you loue to spende many wordes about a thinge of naught you might haue spoken as much in three wordes as you haue done in three leaues But that I maye breefely cut of your lauesh lippe labor whereas you vse in deede as greate impudencie as you charge vs withall in wordes first you would make our chalenge contrary to it self as though one while we boast of the doctors and then being driuen from them we flie to the Scriptures They that dayly heare our preaching with any diligence peruse our writing can beare vs witnes that you doe falsely shamefully belie vs For we stand for authoritie onely to the iudgement of the holy Scriptures and whatsoeuer we say of fathers councells or the most auncient primitiue Church it is either for testimony of our truth or for conuiction of your lying For it is you M. Allen the Papists that boast of all antiquitie all fathers all doctors all councells all Churches to be all togither on your side among whom as we will not deny but you haue some Patrones of some of your errors so will we affirme that you haue more enemies in the greatest of your heresies And therefore this ishue is rightly ioyned and without any Ieofayle vpon this point that the Scripture is to be credited rather then the doctors the word of God rather then the writings of men 4 But this is not the state of our controuersie nor of any question betwixt the Catholikes and them And that they knowe full well though they craftely cloke it with chaunge of wordes for we acknowledge most gladly that if any Doctor Prophet Apostle or Angell if it were possible preach vnto vs any thing against the word and truth of Gods Scripture that he is accursed of God and to be reiected of men But here is the stand and the point of all our doubtes in generall note it well Maister Protestaunt whether the auncient fathers some of them being in Christes time diuers of them scholars to his Apostles many within one hundreth or two of yeares afterward most of them more thē a thousand yeares since I speake of such as we haue named in our cause all wonderfully learned as well in the knowledge of the secretes of Gods mysteries as the tongues all mercifully endued with great giftes and graces all exceeding studious in the Scriptures all hauing the same testament and written worde of God that we now haue all vsing meruelous diligence in the conference of diuers places for the true meaning and vnderstanding of the same all hauing feruent zeale in teaching the Christian people all at times appoynted resorting togither from diuers partes of the world to some one general search in which by humble conference togither and prayer they doubted not to obteyne the spirite of truth as it was by our Maister promised the question is now then I say whether those holy men thus holpen by nature diligence time and grace be not more like to vnderstand the Scripture then these men which either lacke all these helpes or most of them Secondly it followeth thereupon whether we should rather giue credit to them affirming purgatory and prayers for the deade to be not onely consonant but plainely proued by the Scriptures or else to our new aduersaries auouching these thinges to be against the Scripture VVhereby you see we must not nowe reason whether we ought to beleue the doctors or the Scriptures better but whether for the true sense we must not beleue the olde fathers better then these newe fooles 4 In wordes you graunt our ishue because you knowe that all the cuntry of christians would otherwise go against you but in deede you deny it For the ishue which you would ioyne vpon is both captious and doubtfull Captious because it disioyneth those thinges which are not to be separated namely the Scripture and the true meaning thereof Doubtfull because it standeth vpon a likelyhoode and not vpon a certeinty For thus you ioyne whether the olde doctors be more like to vnderstand the Scriptures then the Protestants I haue aunswered before we wil make no comparison with them Neither will we challenge the likelyhood to vs neither will we leaue it to them for whether so euer we doe we shall be neuer the more certeine of the truth But this will we set downe as a most certeine principle that no man can vnderstand the Scriptures but by the same spirite by which they were written What then shall we arrogate the spirite as proper to vs and deny it to them God forbid They had their measure of Gods spirite we humbly thanke his maiestie so haue we How then is the spirite of God contrary to it selfe because they and we agree not in all thinges God forbid Cyprian and Cornelius were both endued with Gods spirite and both Martyres yet they agreed not both in one interpretation nor iudgement of the scripture what then there remaineth but this second
the deade you followe your customable course of lying and sclaundering And yet we maye saye it is a greate preiudice against your purgatory and prayer which you make so necessary and about which no small parte of your religion is occupyed that it is not so much as once named in the scriptures But we saye and truely saye that neither the name nor the thinge it selfe is taught or can be proued by the scriptures so of all other heresies All trueth maye be proued by scripture either in plaine wordes or by necessary conclusion which is all one And therefore the Arians or Anabaptistes haue no more helpe of this argument then you Papistes As for the perpetuall virginitie of the mother of Christ as we can thinke it is true so because the scripture hath not reueled it neither perteineth it vnto vs we make no question of it what scriptures you haue alleaged and howe falsely you slaunder vs for denying the canonicall scripture is set forth at large allready 3 But yet one of these ouerthrowers frameth as he supposeth his negatiue argument to the more sure shake of our faith herein after this sorte In the olde lawe all sacrificies and expiations both appointed and reckoned euen for the smallest offensies that man coulde commit yet there was neuer no sacrifice for the purgation of the dead◠How Lorde like Maister Grindall made his Argument here VVhere he shoulde plainely haue inferred the contrarie after this sorte There was no sinne so small vnpardoned but there was some sacrifice of release or expiation thereof in the olde lawe ergo if any man were bounde with sinne were it neuer so small whether he were aliue or deade there was some appointed purgation therefore For there is no consequence nor any apparance of right deductiō to inferre vpon the naming or rehearsall of all sinnes the peculiar mentioning or plaine rehersall of such persons as maye be burdened with those sinnes There were sacrificies then in the olde lawe for wemen as well as men for the Princies no lesse then for the poore for the priest for the people for the deade as well as for the liue And where there was no difference nor respect of persons in that point there was no peculiar mention to be made for the distinction of states The peculiar rehersall therefore was onely made for the diuersity of offensies and not alwayes for the difference of persons And nowe the departed in faith being but distincted by state of life and not by bonde of sinne from those that be aliue must needes in the case of like sinne for the vnitie which he is in haue the like remedie as the lieue hath for the same sinne And therefore to helpe your ignorance some thing thus you must learne that there was no peculiar sacrifice for the deade as though they were not of the common body with the liuing but they had the same sacrifice done for them that the liuing in this worlde in the like case of sinne or punishment for offensies had Doe you not see Gods Church Maister Grindall sacrifice for the deade but not for them by a peculiar meanes of offeringe but the very selfe same oblation she euer vseth for her Children departed that she practiseth for her faithfull flocke a liue And in all other practises there is a perfect communitie of all benefites betwixt the deceased and their brethern remayning yet in this worlde And therefore when you seeke for sacrifice in the olde lawe looke not for any distincte waye of handeling their offensies which is not common with the lyuing But consider what there was practised for the release of the smaller trespassies and that was vsed for both the liue and dead without distinction Marke what sacrifice was for the abating of any paine due for great offensies and the same shall be well vnderstande to be with out difference practised for the liue and deade together That therby we may by good reason conclude seeing sacrifice was then offered for purgation of euery light offense that it was done for all states of persons that were either in this life or after their death to be perfectely clensed from the same Although the facte of Iudas Machabeus be a plaine proofe that there was a common knowen ordre of sacrifice for else howe coulde he haue conceyued any such sacrifice neuer hearde of before howe coulde he limite the value of procurement therof by a certaine summe for euery soule deceased howe coulde he gather in pretence of a thinge neuer vsed before the peoples almes with out their murmure or motion therein VVhy woulde he haue sent mony to Hierusalem to procure that which had no example in the lawe or vse in the Church was he so ignorant that he knew not their ordre herein or so vnwise to haue sent his mony for nothing S. Augustine aunswering an heretike that by the authoritie of the facte of Iudas woulde haue proued that by sacrifice men might be saued though they died vnbaptized or in deadly sinne sayth vnto him that he is not hable to proue that Iudas or any other in the lawe offered for his freinde or any man else being vncircumcised no more then the Church nowe practiseth for any man not baptised VVhereby he plainely confesseth that the lawe had a sacrifice for the deade which being vrged by that heretike he might haue denied with good helpe of his cause and aunswere to the aduersary but that the contrary case was so cleare not onely by that booke which he tooke for Canonicall scripture as before is proued but also by the full consent of all the Church of God which both by plaine practise and most graue ordinaunce had from Christes time set forth and approued the vndoubted trueth thereof 3 To passe ouer your saucines and scurrilitie being as agreeable to your profession and leuitie as vnmeete for his grauitie and dignitie whom you name the argument is of more force then you haue wit to vnderstand But to beate it smaller that it may enter into your head or at least wise that they which haue any brayne in their heades may conceiue the strength of it I will vse your owne figure and mode All lawfull sacrifices were prescribed by the lawe sacrifice for the deade was not prescribed by the law therfore it was no lawfull sacrifice you aunswere that the rehersal of sinnes proueth not the peculiar persons that may be burdened with those sinnes And with this foolish distinction you thinke you haue broken out of prison But you that so like a proud foole take vpon you to help his ignorance bewray your owne intollerable arrogancie and more then beastly blindnes For if you had redde the law whereof you make your selfe such a Rabbine Leuit. 4. 5.12 15. you should haue seene the peculiar mentioning and playne rehersing of all such persons for whome sacrifice was to be offered both men and women the Princes and the priuate persons the Priest
and the whole congregation yea and speciall regard of the oblations of the poore And in the perticular rehearsing of diuerse kind of persons and the forme of the sacrifice named according to euery perticular state it is so farre of that the deade shall be reckned that such thinges are enioyned euery of these perticular persons to doe as it is playne that none but the liuing could offer or haue sacrifice offered for thē What law was appoynted touching lamenting for the deade you may reade Leuit. 21. how the Priest was forbidden to lament for any but speciall persons also Nu. 19. diuerse ordinances concerning the deade yet neuer any sacrifice or prayer for the deade When Nadab and Abihu were slayne their father and brethren were forbidden to mourne for them the people were permitted By all which it appeareth not only that no sacrifice for the deade was offered but that they were so separated from the liuing that the Priestes might haue nothing to do with any of them but in speciall cases And as for your common shift of the common body of the liuing and the deade helpeth you nothing for although all the faithfull make one body in Christ yet there is one state of them that worke an other of them that are iudged according to their works to put no diuersitie betwene them is not to make a communion but a confusion But of all other it is a clerkely cōclusion that you send M. Grindall to looke vpon the example of your masse whith is a sacrifice both for the quicke the deade and thereof will proue that the olde lawe had but one sacrifice for the liue and the deade In deede there you were to good for him if the practise of the popish church be a good president for Moyses to follow in his law we will reason no longer But the fact of Iudas Machabaeus putteth all out of doubt Surely then the fact of euery man that transgressed the lawe shall be sufficient to proue what the lawe was and not the booke of the lawe For else how coulde he haue conceiued any sacrifice which he neuer hearde of How did Dauid conceiue the cariage of the arke in a newe cart which he neuer heard of except it were of the Philistians that sent home the arke in a cart And euen so it is like that Iudas Machabaeus if he deuised not that sacrifice of his owne head yet tooke it by imitation of the Gentiles whose studies and practises your owne author confesseth were more frequented in those dayes among the Iewes then the preaching or keeping of the law Finally to all the other howe 's and whyes I aunswere with one word he had no warrant of his fact in the law of god Neither doth S. Augustine sufficiently answere the heretike that would proue by that fact that men dying in deadly sinne might be saued by sacrifice For though they were not vncircumcised for whom Iudas sent an offering yet they dyed in deadly sinne and such sinne as for which they were iustly slayne as your owne author confesseth for the idolatrous iewells that they had euery one in their bosomes Concerning the authoritie of that booke and how it was taken by Augustine I haue aunswered enough before 4 But here will I nowe make an ende desiring thee gentle reader with such indifferency to weighe the doing and dealing of both parties as the importaunce of the cause the loue of truth the necessary care of thine owne saluation and thy duety towardes God and his Church requireth There is none of all those pointes which the vnfaithfull contention of our miserable age hath made doubtefull in which thou mayest better beholde howe vpright the wayes of trueth and vertue be and howe pernicious double and deceitfull the dealing of heresie is The one is vpholden by the euidēt testimony of holy scripture the other mainteineth her traine by bolde deniall of scriptures the one seeketh with humility the meaning at their mouthes whome God hath vndoubtedly blessed with the gifte of vnderstanding and interpretation the other by singular pride foundeth her vnfaithfulnesse vpon the phantasies of light and lewde persons that are pufte too and fro with euery blaste of doctrine The one resteth vpon the practise of all nations the vsage of all ages and the holy workes both of God and man the other holdeth wholy by contempte of our elders flatery of the present dayes and vnhappy waste of all workes of vertue religion and deuotion the one followeth the gouernours and appointed pastours of our soules whose names be blessed in heauen and earth the other ioyneth to such as for other horrible heresies wicked life are condemned both a liue and deade of the vertuous and can not for shame be named of their owne scholars The one hath the warraunt of Gods whole Church the other standeth on curse and excommunication by the grauest authority that euer was vnder God in earth To be shorte trueth is the Churches dearlinge heresie must haue her maintenaunce abrode This one holy Catholike and Apostolike Church is it wherevnto we owe all duety and obedience both by Gods commaundement and by the bonde of our first faith and profession There is no force of argument no probability of reason no subtelty of witte no deepe compasse of wordely wisedome no eloquence of man nor Angell nor any other motion that can be wrought in the world that shoulde make a man doubte of any article approued by her authority And if thou yet feare to geue ouer thy whole sense and thine owne selfe to so carefull a mother in whome thou wast begotten in thy better birth compare our Church with theirs compare her authority and theirs her maiesty and theirs 4 In Gods name let the readers waye indifferently the doinges and dealinges on both partes the cause the trueth their saluation the Church and the glory of God aboue all thinges And as they see this pointe handeled so let them iudge of the reste The trueth is vpholden by euident testimony of scripture the error by custome practise and iudgement of men The trueth seeketh vnderstanding of the scriptures of the spirite of God in the scriptures error at the mouthes of mortall men The trueth resteth vpon the onely authority of God error vpon the maintenaunce of carnall deuises The trueth is founded vpon the doctrine of the Prophets and Apostles the other vpon Gentiles and heretikes Trueth is embraced of the pure and primitiue Church of Christ error is continued from a corrupt state of the Church of Christ vnto a plaine departing awaye into the church of Antichrist To be short trueth is tryed by the worde of God heresie by the inuention of men The holy Catholicke and Apostolicke Church is that which humbly obeyeth the word of God and the Synagoge of Satan is that which arrogantly challengeth authoritie aboue the worde The true Church shall neuer decaye but alwaye reigne with Christ the false Synagoge shall daily more and more decaye
penaunce there remaineth some due of temporall punishement for the satisfying of Gods iustice and some recompense of the oftensies past 31. chapter 2 The double and doubtfull shiftes of our aduersaries pressed by this conclusion are remoued and it is proued against one sorte that these foresaide skourgies vvere in deede punishments for sinnes remitted And against the other secte that this transitory paine hath often endured in the next life 43. chapter 3 That the practise of Christes Church in the courte of binding and loosing mans sinnes doth liuely set forth the ordre of Gods iustice in the next life and proue Purgatory 65. chapter 4 That the many folde vvorkes fructes of penaunce vvhich all godly meÌ„ haue charged theÌ„ selues vvith all for their ovvn sinnes remitted vvere in respect of Purgatory paines for the auoyding of Gods iudgemeÌ„t teÌ„poral as vvell as eternal in the next life 74. chapter 5 A briefe ioyning in reason and argument vppon the proued groundes vvith the aduersaries for the declaration and proofe of Purgatory 89. chapter 6 That Purgatory paines doth not only serue Gods iustice for the punishement of sinne but also cleanse qualify the soule of man defiled for the more seemely entrauÌ„ce into the holy placies vvith confereÌ„ce of certaine textes of scripturs for that purpose 92. chapter 7 That there is a particular iudgemeÌ„t and priuate accompt to be made at euery mans departure of his seuerall actes and deedes vvith certaine of the fathers mindes touching the textes of scriptures alleaged before 103. chapter 8 Origen is alleaged for our cause vpon vvhose error in a matter somvvhat apperteining to our purpose S. Augustins iudgement is more largely sought and there vvith it is declared by testimony of diuers holy authors vvhat sinnes be chiefly purged in that temporall fire 114. chapter 9 A further declaration of this point for the better vnderstanding of the doctors vvordes VVherein it is opened hovv Purgatory is ordeined for mortall sinnes and hovv for smaller offenses vvho are like to feele that greefe and vvho not at all 125. chapter 10 A place alleaged for Purgatory out of S. Matthevv vvith certeine of the auncient fathers iudgements vpon the same 132. chapter 11 An aunsvvere to certaine obiections of the aduersaries moued vpon the diuersity of meaninges vvhich they see geuen in the fathers vvritinges of the scriptures before alleaged for Purgatory and that this doctrine of the Church standeth not against the sufficiency of Christes Passion 148. chapter 12 An euident and most certaine demonstration of the trueth of Purgatory and the greeuousnesse thereof vttered by the prayers and vvordes of the holy doctors and by some extraordinary vvorkes of God beside 156. chapter 13 Of the nature and condicion of Purgatory fire the difference of their state that be in it from the damned in hell vvith the conclusion of this Booke 169. THE ARGVMENTES OF THE Chapters of the seconde booke THe preface of this booke vvherein the matter of the treatise the order of the authors proceding be briefly opened 180 chapter 1 That there be certeyne sinnes vvhich may be forgiuen in the next life and that the deserued punishment for the same may be eased or vtterly released before the extreme sentence be to the vtmost executed pag. 187. chapter 2 That the faythfull soules in purgatory being novve past the state of deseruing and not in case to helpe them selues may yet receiue benefite by the vvorkes of the liuing to vvhom they be perfectly knitte as felloâ— members of one body 197. chapter 3 VVhat the Church of God hath euer principally practised for the soules departed by the vvarrant of holy Scripture vvith the defence of the Machabees holy hystory against the heretikes of our tyme. 205. chapter 4 That the funeralls of the Patriarches both in the lavv of nature and Moyses and Christ had practise in them for the reliefe of the soules departed 220. chapter 5 Man may be relieued after his departure eyther by the almes vvhich he gaue in his life tyme or by that vvhich is prouided by his testament to be giuen after his death or else by that almes vvhich other men doe bestovv for his soules sake of their ovvne goods 238. chapter 6 Of certeyne offerings or publike almes presented to God for the deceased in the time of the holy sacrifice at mens burialls other customable dayes of their memories and of the sundry mindes kept in the primitiue Church for the departed 266. chapter 7 That the benefite of praier almes apperteyneth not to such as dye in mortal sin though in the doubtfull case of mans being the Church vseth to pray for all departed in Christes faith 271. chapter 8 VVhat that holy sacrifice is vvhich vvas euer counted so beneficiall to the liue and deade The punishment of our sinnes by the heâ—uy losse thereof The great hatred vvhich the deuill and all his side hath euer borne tovvardes Christes eternall priesthood and the sacrifice of the Church And that by the sayd sacrifice of the Masse the soules departed are especially relieued 288. chapter 9 That the practise of any poynt in religion maketh the most opeÌ„ shevv of the fathers faith And that all holy men haue in plain vvordes and most godly prayers vttered their beliefe in our matter 304. chapter 10 That vve all nations receiued this vsage of praying sacrificing for the departed at our first conuersion to Christes faith And that this article vvas not onely confirmed by miracle amongest the rest but seuerally by signes and vvonders approued by it selfe And that the Church is grovvne to such bevvty by the frute of this faith 328. chapter 11 That in euery order or vsage of celebration of the blessed Sacrament and Sacrifice throughout the Christian vvorlde since Christes time there hath ben a solemne supplicatioÌ„ for the soules departed 347. chapter 12 The heretikes of our tyme and cuntry be yet further vrged vvith the practise of prayers for the deceased their contrary coÌ„munion is compared vvith the olde vsage of celebration â—hey are ashamed of the first originall of their Christian faith they are vveary of their ovvne seruice they are kept in order by the vvisdome of the ciuill Magistrates and are forced to refuse all the doctors 364. chapter 13 That the praying for the deade vvas appoynted to be had in the holy sacrifice by the Apostles commaundement and prescription And that our doctors by the maiestie of their name beare dovvne our light aduersaries 386. chapter 14 The first author of that sect vvhich denyeth prayers for the departed is noted his good conditions and cause of his error be opened vvhat kind of men haue bene most bent in all ages to that sect And that this heresie is euer ioyned as a fitte compagnion to other horrible sectes 407. chapter 15 Their falshood is condemned and the Catholike truth approued by the authority of holy Councells Their pride in contemning the Catholikes humility in obedient receiuing the same And a sleight vvhereby the heretikes deceiue the people is detected 424. chapter 16 An aunsvvere to such arguments as the heretikes doe frame of the holy scriptures not vvell vnderstanded against the practise of Gods Church in praying for the deade or the doctrine of Purgatory 436. chapter 17 An aunsvvere to their negatiue argument vvith the Conclusion of the booke 448. FINIS
person A childe then of this houshold continuing in fauour though he can not euerlastingly perish with the impenitent sinners yet he must being not by some especial prerogatiue pardoned beare the rodde of his fathers discipline And gladly say with the prophet In flagella paratus sum I am ready for the roddes And whatsoeuer these wantons that are runne out of this house for their owne ease or other mennes flattery shal forge let vs continue in perpetuall cogitation of our sinnes forgeuen and by all meanes possible recompence our negligences past Let vs not think but God hath somewhat to say to vs euen for our offences pardoned being thus warned by â—is owne mouth Sed habeo aduersum te pauca quòd charitatem tuam primam reliquisti Memor esto itaque vnde excideris age poeniteÌ„tiam prima opera fac But somewhat I haue against thee because thou art fallen from thy first loue Remembre therefore from whence thou fell do penaunce and beginne thy former workes againe And the consideration of this diuersitie betwixt remission had by baptisme and after relapse by the sacrament of penaunce moued Damascen to call this second remedie Baptismum vere laboriosum quod per poenitentiam lachrymas perficitur A kinde of Baptisme full of trauell by penaunce and teares to be wroght In which God so pardoneth sinnes that both the offence it selfe and the euerlasting paine due for the same being wholy by Christes death merites wyped away there may yet remaine the debt of temporal punishmeÌ„t on our parte to be discharged as well for some satisfactioÌ„ of Gods iustice against the eternal ordre wherof we vnworthely offended as for to aunswere the Church of her right as S. Austine saith in which only al sinnes be forgeueÌ„ Mary when occasion of satisfying for our offensies in this life is neglected or lacke of time by reason of longe continuance and late repentaunce suffereth not due recompense in our life which is the time of mercie then certes the hand of God shall be much more heuie and the punishment more greuous And this is with out doubt to be looked for that the debt due for sinne must either here by paine or pardon be discharged or els to our greater grief after our departure required CAP. I. 1 ALthough the argument of this chapter be but one yet I thought it good to diuide the answere into two partes The former part containeth his proposition the latter his confirmation And first concerning the sufficiency of Christes redemption there is nothing can be spoken so magnifically but that the worthines thereof passeth and excedeth it I will therefore agree with you in that you say of the comfort sufficiency and aboundant pâ—â—ce of the death of Christ and I would you would alwayes agre with your selfe in the constant confession of the same truth I receaue also that which you affirme that the benefit of his death extendeth also to the members of his mystical body But in that which you make to be the onely meane whereby the same is conueyed and applyed vnto vs I can not but dissent from your iudgement For the meane on Gods behalfe by which we are made partakers of the fruites of Christes passion and so grafted into his body is his holy spirite of promise which is the earnest and assuraunce of our inheritaunce who worketh in vs fayth as the onely meane by which the righteousnes of Christ is applyed vnto vs Eph. 1. And as for the Sacraments which you seeme to make the onely condittes of Gods mercy we are taught in the holy Scriptures that they are the seales of Gods promises geuen for the confirmation of our fayth as was circumcision to Abraham when he was iustified before through faith Rom. 4. You will vs in the margent to marke the grounde of your cause which is in deede a good admonition For seeing the grounde of your cause leaneth vpon your onely affirmation and is contrary to thautority of Gods word iniurious to the spirite of God and neglecting the fayth of Christ what so euer you buyld thereuppon must needes be like the foundation But howe shoulde your free will be maintayned if Gods spirite had any place that distributeth to euery one according to the good pleasure of his owne will. 1. Cor. 12. And how should the Sacrament geue grace of the worke wrought if fayth were requisite in them that receiue them Of like authority it is which you say that like effect is not geuen to all the Sacramentes Surely all the Sacramentes of Christes institution haue lyke effect in Gods elect But let vs heare your difference By baptisme all sinne committed before and the punishment thereof is clearely forgeuen by the Sacrament of penaunce though the sinne be forgiuen yet there remayneth a temporal punishment When the Pope geueth a general pardon à poena culpa doth he not it by the sacrament of penaunce if he do it by that sacrament then are temporall paines also remitted therby Thus one falshod ouerthroweth an other But Christ you say the author of this sacrament meant not to communicate such efficacie â—o this as to Baptisme Here are two assertions first of the author then of the force of this Sacrament but neither of both able to be proued by the word of god Neuerthelesse here is brought in that which is thought to be the piller not onely of purgatory but also of all other popish satisfactions namely the chastisement and correction that God ministreth to his children whose sinnes he hath pardoned which is not a satisfaction for the sinnes past but a warning for the time to come and is neuer accompted in scripture for an answering of Gods iustice but a token of his mercy being not the punishment of a iudge but the chastisement of the father to the amendement of his childe that suffereth and for an admonition of other that they likewise offend not Heb 12. And after this manner are also those places to be vnderstood where God is sayd to punish the offences of his children But whereas M. Allen allegeth the saying of Christ vnto the Angell of the Church of Ephesus Apoc. 2. But I haue somewhat against thee c. to proue that God hath somewhat to say for our offences pardoned I maruell whether he were sleeping or waking when he wrote it for there the pastor and Church is charged for their offence which is not to be pardoned except they repent if they repent to be clearly remitted But 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 or age poenitentiam with M. Allen is doe penaunce doing of penaunce with him soundeth to make satisfaction He professeth in one place his ignoraunce in the Greeke tongue but if he would but acknowledge what poenitere in Latine signifieth to be sory he neede not to haue occupied him selfe in alleging that place But proceding a litle further he maketh two causes why the debt of temporall punishment remaineth to be
discharged by vs One for some satisfaction of Gods iustice as though the satisfaction of Christ were imperfect An other to answere the Church of her right as S. Augustine sayth In deede the olde discipline of the Church required that open offenders should not onely repent priuatly before God but also shew open signes of harty repentaunce for satisfying the Church by whom they were to be receaued as before their repentaunce they were cast out And in this sense satisfaction is often vsed by the auncient fathers and not to fulfill the righteousnes of God either by doing or suffering of any thing Seeing therefore that Godâ— iustice is throughly satisfied by Christes suffering there remayneth no satisfaction to be supplyed by men For the afflictions of the faithfull are tâ—e matter of their patience and conformitie with Christ their head the punishments that are inflicted vpon them are the corrections of mercy not the satisfactions of iustice There remaineth therefore no temporall punishment for satisfying of Gods iustice in our life and much lesse after our death 2 And this to be the graue doctrine and constant faith of the fathers I must first declare both for that it shall firmly establish our whole matter and clearely open the case of controuersie betwixt vs and the forsaken company VVho would so gladly liue at ease in their onely faith that they list nether satisfie for their sinnes nor procure Gods mercy by well working In this case then let vs seeke the ordre of Gods iustice by the diligent consideration of some notable persâ—nages of whome we may haue by the plaine Scripture euident testimonie both of the remission of their sinnes and their penaunce and punishment after they were reconciled againe Our first father Adam in whome we may beholde almost the whole course of Gods iudgement and through whome both sinne and all punishment due for sinne entred into the world I thinke he had the first benefite by Christes death for the remission of his disobedience or at the least because I woulde not auouch an vncertain thing this I am sure that by Christ he was raised vp to Gods fauour againe Of whome we finde it thus written in the booke of wisdome Haec illum qui primus formatus est pater orbis terrarum cum solus esset creatus custodiuit eduxit illum a delicto suo This saith he meaning by Christ vnder the name of wisedom safely preserued him that was first formed of God the father of the world when he was created all alone and raysed him out of his sinne again The which disobedience with what other sinne so euer was thereunto in him ioyned though it was thus clearly pardoned yet the punishment thereof both he felt long after in his owne person and it lieth vpon his posterity till this day For which sinne he him selfe began to doe penaunce as Irenaeus saith euen in paradise and then God practised iudgement vpon him as Augustine noteth first by his disinheritaunce then by painfull trauell inioyned by the vnaptnesse of the earth to serue his turne by rebellion of the inferiour creatures by the troublesom motions of his owne affections briefly in all pointes by a lothsom life and a dreadfull death Yea and that his punishment ceased not in this world by his death but many hundreth yeares after remained as further condemnation of his disobedience I shall more conueniently anone declare Now seeking further to haue cleare and open euidence in this case we can not wish more proofe then may be had by the straung working and dispensation of God in the manifold affaires of that sanctified people and chosen nation of the Israelites In which peoples perpetuall protection a man might finde a perfect platte of mercy and iudgement So often they fall so sodenly they rise so grieuously they offend such mercy they finde that it is maruelous to consider Of this elect family therefore thus God speaketh Si autem dereliquerint filij eius legem meam in iudicijs meis non ambulauerint visitabo in virga iniquitates eorum in verberibus peccata eorum misericordiam autem meam non dispergam ab eo neque nocebo in veritate mea If his children reiect my lawe and walke not in my iudgements with rodde will I visit their wickednes and in stripes their sinnes yet will I not take my mercy from him or them as it is also redde nor harme him in my truth This people at their first passage out of Egypt committing horrible idolatry was pardoned thereof at the instance of Moises yet so saith our Lord God vnto him Ego autem in die vltionis visitabo hoc peccatum eorum But yet in the day of reuengement I will visit this their offence also The same people offending greuously again by murmure and mistrust of Gods carefull prouidence towards them at their Gouernours humble sute were expresly forgiuen in these wordes Dimisi iuxta verbum tuum I haue pardoned them according to thy word But after their assured warraunt for the full remission of the fault the eternall paine due to that greeuous sinne behold yet their punishment temporall for the same Attamen omnes homines qui viderunt maiestatem c. For all that saith our Lord euery one that hath seene my maiesty and the wonders which I wrought in Egypt in the wildernes yet hath notwithstanding tempted me tenne times shall not beholde the land for which I bound my selfe by oth to their forefathers But passing the peoples sinne Moises and Aron them selfe in many pointes minister aboundant profe of this matter VVho both dying in perfect fauour of God yet for their mistrust were discharged of guiding Gods people or entring them selfe into the land so hartely desired and so long loked for before Of these two the Prophet sayth thus Custodiebant testimonia eius praeceptum quod dedit illis Deus tu propitius fuisti eis vlciscens in omnes adinuentiones eorum They obserued his testimonies and the charge that he gaue vnto them Lord God thou wast mercifull vnto them and sharply reuenged their owne inuentions The like ordinaunce of Gods iustice in punishment of such as he highly fauoured may appeare in Samson in Hely all other notorious personages in the whole Scripture But the heartely beloued of God King Dauids example so beareth downe our aduersaries that I can not wel omit it though I now long to be nearer my matter This Prophet had an expresse pardon with a plaine prouiso that he should notwithstanding beare the heauy hand of God for the punishment of his former sinne Once for taking pride in the multitude and numbring of his people God though he pardoned him yet by the prophet God gaue him leaue to chuse of thre named scourges which he would to whom he answered Coarctor nimis sed melius est incidere in manus Domini multae enim sunt misericordiae