AN ARGVMENT DELIVERED BY PATRICKE DARCY ESQVIRE By the expresse order of the House of Commons in the Parliament of IRELAND 9. Iunii 1641. Printed at Waterford by Thomas Bourke Printer to the Confederate Catholicks of Ireland 1643. 5. Iunii 1641. By the Commons House of IRELAND in Parliament assembled FOrasmuch as M. PATRICKE DARCY by a former order of this House was appointed Prolocutor at the Conference with the Lords touching the Questions propounded to the Iudges and their pretended answers to the same It is hereby ordered and the said M. DARCY is required to declare and set forth at the said Conference the manifold grievances and other causes and grounds that moved this House to present the said Questions to the Lords House to be propounded as aforesaid and to give particular reasons for every of the said Questions Copia vera Extract per Phil. Fern Cleric Parl. Com. AN ARGVMENT DELIVERED BY PATRICKE DARCY ESQVIRE By the expresse orders of the Commons-House of the Parliament of Ireland at a conference with a Comittee of the Lords House in the dyning roome of the Castle of Dublin 9. Die Iunij 1641. upon certaine Questions propounded to the Iudges of Ireland in full Parliament and upon the answers of the said Iudges to the said Questions And in the conclusion a declaration of the Commons House upon the said Questions THE QVESTIONS Questions VVherein the House of Commons humbly desired that the House of the Lords would be pleased to require the Iudges to deliuer their resolutions IN asmuch as the Subjects of this kingdome are free loyall and dutifull Subjects to his most Excellent Majesty their naturall Liege Lord King And to be governed only by the Common Lawes of England Statutes of force in this kingdome in the same manner forme as his Majesties Subjects of the Kingdome of England are and ought to be governed by the said Common Lawes and Statutes of force in that kingdome which of right the Subjects of this kingdome doe challenge and make their protestation to be their birth-right and best inheritance yet in asmuch as the unlawfull actions and proceedings of some of his Majesties Subjects Ministers of Iustice of late yeares introduced and practised in this kingdome did tend to the infringing and violation of the lawes liberties and freedome of the said Subjects of this kingdome contrary to his Majesties Royall and pious intentions Therfore the Knights Citizens and Burgesses in Parliament assembled not for any doubt or ambiguity which may be conceived or thought of for or concerning the premisses nor of the ensueing questions but for manifestation and declaration of a cleere truth and of the said Lawes and Statutes already planted and for many ages past setled in this kingdome The said Knights Citizens and Burgesses doe therefore pray the House of the Lords may bee pleased to command the Iudges of this kingdom forthwith to declare in writing their resolutions of and unto the ensuing Questions and subscribe to the same 1. Whether the Subjects of this kingdome be a free people and to be governed only by the Common Lawes of England and Statutes of force in this kingdome 2. Whether the Iudges of this Land doe take the oath of Iudges and if so whether under pretext of any Act of State Proclamation Writ Letter or Direction under the great or privie Seale or privie Signet or Letter or other Commandment from the Lord Lieutenant Lord Deputy Iustice Iustices or other Chiefe Governor or Governors of this kingdome they may hinder stay or delay the suite of any Subject or his Iudgment or execution thereupon if so in what Case and whether if they doe hinder stay or delay such Suite Iudgement or Execution thereupon what punishment doe they incurre for their deviation and transgression therein 3. Whether the Kings Majesties privie Councell either with the Chiefe Governor or Governors of this kingdome or without him or them be a place of Iudicature by the Common Lawes and wherein Causes betweene partie and partie for debts trespasses accompts possession or title of land or any of them may be heard and determined and of what Civill Causes they have Iurisdiction and by what law and of what force is their order or decree in such Cases or any of them 4. The like of the chiefe Governors alone 5. Whether grants of Monopolies be warranted by the Law and of what and in what cases and how and where and by whom are the pretended transgressors against such grants punishable and whether by fine mutillation of members imprisonment losse and forfeiture of goods or otherwise and which of them 6. In what Cases the Lord Lieutenant Lord Deputy or other Chiefe Governor or Governors of this kingdome and Councell may punish by fine imprisonment mutillation of members pillorie or otherwise and whether they may sentence any to such the same or the like punishment for infringing the Comands of or concerning any Proclamations or Monopolies and what punishment doe they incurre that vote for the same 7. Of what force is an Act of State or proclamation in this kingdome to bind the libertie goods possession or inheritance of the Natives thereof whether they or any of them can alter the Cōmon Law or the infringers of them loose their goods chattells or leases or forfeite the same by infringing any such Act of State Proclamation or both and what punishment doe the sworne Iudges of the Law that are Privy Councellors incurre that vote for such Acts and execution thereof 8. Are the Subjects of this kingdome subject to the Marshall law and whether any man in time of peace no enemy being in the field with Banners displaied can be sentenced to death if so by whom and in what Cases if not what punishment doe they incurre that in time of peace execute Marshall law 9. Whether voluntary oathes taken freely before Arbitrators for affirmance or disaffirmance of any thing or the true performance of any thing be punishable in the Castle Chamber or in any other Court and why and wherefore 10. Why and by what law or by what rule of policie is it that none is admitted to reducement of fines and other penaltie in the Castle Chamber or Councell-Table untill he confesse the offence for which he is censured when as Revera he might be innocent thereof though suborned prooffes or circumstance might induce a censure 11. Whether the Iudges of the Kings Bench or any other Iudges of Gaole delivery or of any other Court and by what law doe or can deny the copies of Indictments of Felony or Treason to the parties accused contrary to the lawes 12. What power hath the Barons of the Court of Exchequer to raise the respite of homage arbitrarily to what rate they please to what value they may raise it by what law they may distinguish betweene the respite of homage upon the diversitie of the true value of the fees when as Escuadge is the same for great and small fees
processe of distringas out of the second remembrance Office to distrayne the tenants ad faciendum homagium or pro homagio suo respectuaÌ„do upon which processe the Shiriffes returneth issues And if the Tenant doe not therupon appeare and compound with the King to give a fine for respite of homage then the issues are forfeyted to the King for his contempt but if he appeare then the Court of Exchequer doth agree with him to respite his homage for a small fine wherein they regulate themselves under the rate expressed and set downe in England by vertue of a privie Scale in the 15. yeare of Queene Elizabeth whereby the rates are particularly set downe according to the yearely value of the Lands which rates are confirmed by act of Parliament in 1. Iacob Regis cap. 26. in England before which time there was not any such certayntie but the same rested in the discretion of the Court by the rule of Common-law and so it doth at this day in Ireland howbeit we conceive that the Court of Exchequer here doe well to regulate their discretions by those rates in England and rather to be under then to exceede the same which the Barons there doe as they doe informe us that are Iudges of the other Courts 13. To the 13. they say that they know no rule of Law or statute by which it should be ceÌ„surable in the subjects of this kingdome to repayre into England to appeale unto his Majesty for redresse of injuries or for other their lawfull occasions unles they be prohibited by his Majesties writ or proclamation or other his Command But they find that by the statute of 5. Rich. 2. the passage of the subject out of the Realme is prohibited without speciall licence excepting Noblemen others in the said statute specially excepted some inference to that purpose may be made upon the statute of 25. Hen 6 cap. 2. in this kingdome 14. To the 14. they say that some Deanries dignities not Deanes or dignitaries as the question propounds it are properly de mero jure donative by the King some Elective some Collative according to the first foundation usuage of such Churches they humbly desire that they may not be required to give any further answer to this question for that it may concerne many mens estates which may come judcially in question before them 15. To the 15. they say that they conceive that where priviledges are claymed by any body politicke or other the Kings Counsell may exhibite à quo-warranto to cause the parties clayming such priviledges to shew by what warrant they clayme the same that the Court cannot hinder the issuing of processe at the instance of the Kings Atturney or hinder the Kings Atturney to exhibite such informations But when the case shall upon the proceedings be brought to judgment then not before the Court is to take notice and give judgâ—ment upon the merite circuÌ„stances of the cause as upon due consideration shal be conceived to be according to law in which case the Iudges or the Kings Atturney as they conceive ought not to be punished by any ordinary rule of law or statute that they know But for the particular case of Quo-warranto for that it hath beene a great question in this present Parliament so concernes the highest Court of justice in this kingdome also concernes two other of his Majesties Courts of justice therin his Majesties prerogative in those Courts they say that they cannot safely deliver any opinion therein before it comes judicially before them and that they heare it argued and debated by learned Counsell on both sides 16. To the sixteenth they say that although the Iurors be sole Iudges of the matter of fact yet the Iudges of the Court are Iudges of the validitie of the evidence and of the matters of law arising out of the same wherein the Iury ought to be guided by them And if the Iury in any criminall cause betweene the King and party give their verdict contrary to cleere and apparent evidence delivered in Court they have beene constantly and still ought to be censured in the Star-chamber in England and Castle-chamber here for this misdemeanor in perverting the right course of justice in such fines and other punishment as the merites circumstances of the cause doth deserve according to the course of the said Courts for that their consciences ought to be directed by the evidence and not to bee misguided by their wills or affections And if the Iury know any matter of fact which may eyther better or blemish their evidence they may take advantage thereof but they ought to discover the same to the Iudges And they say that this proceeding in the Court of Castle-chamber is out of the same grounds that writs of attaint are against a Iury that gives a false verdict in a Court of Record at the Common-law betwixt partie and partie which false verdict being found by a Iury of twenty foure notwithstanding that the first Iurie were Iudges of the fact yet that infamous judgement was pronounced against the first Iury which is next or rather worse then judgment to death and did lay a perpetuall brand of perjury upon them for which reason it was anciently called the villanous judgement and they say that the law to direct the punishment for such offences is the course of the said Court which is a law as to that purpose the statute of 3. Henr. 7. cap. 1. and other statutes in force in this kingdome 17. To the seventeenth they say they can answer no otherwise then they have in their answer to the next precedent question 18. To the eighteenth they say that in a Legall construction the statute of Magna Charta in which the words Salvo contenemento are mentioned is only to be understood of amerciaments not of fines yet where great fines are imposed in terrorem upon the reducement of them regard is to be had to the abilitie of the persons 19. To the nineteenth they say that if one doth steale a sheepe or commit any other felony and after flyeth the course of justice or lyeth in woods or mountaynes upon his keeping yet doth he not thereby become a Traytor neyther doth a Proclamation make him so the chiefe use whereof in such a Case is to invite the partie so standing out to submit himselfe to justice or to forewarne others of the danger they may runne into by keeping him company or giving him mayntenance and reliefe whereby he may the rather submit to Iustice 20. To the twentieth they say that the testimony of Rebels or Traytors under protection of Theeves or other infamous persons is not to bee used or pressed as convincing evidence upon the tryall of any man for his life and so is his Majesties printed instructions as to persons condemned or under protectioÌ„ yet the testimony of such persons not condemned being fortified with other concurring
proofe or apparant circumstances may be pressed upon any tryall and for discovering of their fellowes abetors or relievers as the circumstances may offer themselves in their examinations especially if before they confesse themselves guiltie of the offence in imitation of the approver at the Common-law whereof no certaine rule may be given And it neede not be made a question here whether the Iurors or Iudges ought to be Iudges of the matter of fact it being positively layd downe in the sixteenth question that they are And though their false verdict doth convince or not convince the prisoner yet they may be questioned and punished for a false verdict as in their answer to the sixteenth is already declared 21. To the twentie one they say that that question is now judicially depending and hath beene already solemnely argued in his Majesties Court of VVardes in which Court their assistance for declaration of the law therein is already required And therefore they humbly desire they may not be compelled to give any opinion touching that point untill it be resolved there 22. To the twentie two they say that they doe conceive that there is no matter of Law contayned in the said question yet for the further satisfaction of your Lordships they say that upon view of an Act of state bearing Date at his Majesties Castle of Dublin the twenty fourth of December 1636. grounded upon his Majesties Letters of the fift of Iuly then last past it appeared unto them that foure shillings in the pound as of his Majesties free gift and reward out of the first payment of the increase of rent reserved to his Majestie was allowed to the Iudges that were Commissioners and attended that service And we humbly conceive that the receiving of that foure shillings in the pound of his Majesties bountie stands well with the integrity of a Iudge and those Iudges did informe them that they did not avoyde any Letters-Patents upon the Commission of Defective Titles but received such to compound as submitted for the strengthning of their defective Patents and Titles and such as would stand upon the validity of their grants were left to the tryall at law And that the Compositions made after the said grants of the foure shillings in the pound were made according to rules and rates agreed upon by all the Commissioners before his Majesties said Letters or the said Act of State and not otherwise George Shurley Hu. Cressy VVilliam Hilton Edw. Bolton Iames Barry Sa. Mayars Iam. Donellan Copia vera Extract per Phil Percivall Mr DARCIES REPLY TO THE ANSWER OF THE IVDGES MY LORDS His Majesties most humble and faithfull subjects the Knights Citizens and Burgesses in Parliament assembled representing the whole Commons of this Realme calling to mind the late invasion made upon the Lawes and just rights have heretofore presented unto the Lords House certaine questions of great weight and moment to the end their Lordships might thereunto require the answer of the Iudges in writing which being long sithence accordingly commaunded by their Lordships the Iudges have of late delivered in a writing to the Lords House by them styled an Answer unto the said Questions which being sent to the Commons house to be taken into consideration and the same all the partes thereof being weighed in the ballance of the grave judgement and knowledge of the said house of Commons the said answer was upon question voted to be minus pondus habens and not to merit the name of an answer This my Lords being the occasion of this conference the house of Commons appointed me a feeble Organ to utter part of their sense of the style and manner of this writing and to declare part of those reasons which satisfied their judgements that the said writing was short and insufficient o utinam that were all My Lords the Iudges had divers Moneths time to answer plaine questions plaine I speake of those who would be plaine the house of Commons a few dayes onely to consider of that intricate writing My powers are weake and the infirmities of my body are visible both in part occasioned by an high hand I should therefore faint under the weight of this burden but that the taske is not great I doe represent to your Lordships by way of rehearseall onely some partes of those reasons and authorities which were gathered and ripened to my hands by the house of Commons My Lords in matters of importance the course hath beene ancient and not yet deserted to begin with Prologues or Exordiums the worke is not mine I will onely In nomine sanctissimae Trinitatis make my entrance upon the matter of this Conference which is a generall concernment a great concernment of the whole kingdome And to that purpose I will declare the causes and reasons which moved or rather inforced the house of Commons for to disgest and propound the said Questions and to make it appeare that none of them is Idea Platonica none of them circumventing and all depending now or of late To mantayne the preamble to Questions viz. That this Nation ought to bee governed by the Common-lawes of England that the great Charter and many other beneficiall statutes of England are here of force by reasoning or argumentation were to alter a foundation layd 460. yeares past and to shake a stately building thereon erected by the providence and industrie of all the ensuing times and ages This is so unanswerable a truth and a principle so cleere that it proveth all it needeth not to be proved or reasoned Reasons why the Questions were propounded The reason for the first was the late introduction of an arbitrary government in many cases by some Ministers of estate contrary to the lawes and statutes aforesaid a government contrary to the just freedome property of his Majesties people in their lives estates and liberties whereas the subjects governed by the lawes of England are and ought to be free subjects the late disuse therefore of those lawes in execution and the measure of justice being squared by the Lesbian line of uncertaintie as contrary to the lawes aforesaid as any oppositum is in objecto produced the first question and I hope not improperly The reason for the second in part ariseth out of the Oath of a Iudge 18. Edw. 3. to be found among the Printed statutes Polton fol. 144. and out of the statutes of 20. Edw. 3. cap. 1. 2. 3. Polton fol. 145. This Oath is comprehensive and extends to the Iudges the Barons of the Exchequer and Iustices of Gaole-delivery and their associats This great and sacred Oath contaynes severall branches First well lawfully to serve the King his people in the Office of a Iustice Secondly not to Counsell or consent unto any thing tending to the Kings damage or disinherison Thirdly to warne the King of his damage when hee knowes it Fourthly to doe equall Iustice to rich and poore c. without respect of persons Fiftly
to receive no reward Sixtly to take no Fee of any other then the King Seventhly to commit such as breake the peace in the face of Iustice Eightly not to mantayne any suite Ninthly not to deny Iustice notwithstanding the Kings Letters or Commandements and in that Case to certifie the King of the truth Tenthly by reasonable wages to procure the profits of the Crowne Eleventhly if he be found in default in any the matters aforesaid to bee in the Kings mercie body Lands and goods The second reason principally moveth from the following particulars In the Kings Bench the Major-part of the Iudges denyed his Majesties writ of prohibition to the late Court called the high Commission in a cause meerely temporall The foure Courts of Iustice durst not proceede in any cause depending before the chiefe Governor or at the Counsell-board upon paper petitions or rather voyde petitions these paper-petitions being the oblique lines aforesaid grave Iudges of the law were commonly assistants and more commonly referrees in the proceedings upon these paper-petitions in what causes in all causes proper for the Cognizance of the Common-law and determinable by writs of right and petitions of right and so to the most inferior action the like of the Courts of equitie whether this be lawfully to serve the King and his people or whether the King was at losse by the non-prosecuting of the causes aforesaid in their proper orbes by originall writs which might afford the King a lawfull revenue and likewise by the losse of fines and amerciaments naturall to actions at the Common-law or whether the losse aforesaid was made knowne to his Majestie or who consented to the Kings damage therein or whether this be a denyall of justice to deferre it upon paper Orders or Commaunds be conformable to that Oath I will pretermit yet your Lordships may even in this mist discerne a cleere ground for the second question The motive which in part stirred the third and fourth questions was the infinity of Civill causes of all natures without exception of persons without limitation of time proceeded in ordered decreed and determined upon paper-petitions at Counsell-board by the chiefe Governor alone The Commons of this kingdome observing the Iudges of the law who were Counsellors of estate to have agreed and signed unto such Orders the Iudges of the foure Courts and Iustices of Assize in all the partes of the kingdome to bee referrees upon such proceedings wherby these new devises were become so notorious that as all men heavily groaned under them so no man could bee ignorant of them By the colour of Proclamations more more frequent and of the Orders and Acts of state at Counsell-board which were in a manner infinite and other proceedings mentioned in these questions these effects were produced First imprisonment close imprisonment of such numbers that a great defeate in a battle could hardly fill more gaoles and prisons then by these meanes were surcharged in Ireland Secondly by seizures made by crewes of Catchpoles and Caterpillers his Majesties Leige people lost their goods as if lost in a battaile nay worse without hope of ransome Thirdly possessions were altered and that so often and so many that more possessions were lost by these courses in a few yeares then in all the Courts of Iustice in Ireland in an age or two The fourth effect was this after liberty was taken away propertie altered and possession lost by the wayes aforesaid that was not sufficient the subject must be pillored papered stigmatized and the image of God so defaced with indignities that his life became a continuing death the worse of punishments in these feates were advising and concurring some grave and learned Iudges of the Land who were Counsellors of estate as by their signatures may appeare The house of Commons finding as yet no warrant of president nor countenance of example in the law of England to beare up the courses aforesaid have drawne the said Questions from the effects aforesaid My Lords the liberty estate in lands or goods the person of the subject nay his honor and spirit being invaded altered and debased in manner aforesaid there remayned yet one thing his Life See how this is brought into play nothing must escape were not the Gates of Ianus shut up was not the Kings peace universall in his three kingdomes when a Peere of this Realme a Counsellor of the Kings a great Officer of state was sentenced to be shot to death in a Court Marshall what the cause was what defence was permitted what time given and what losse sustayned I submit to your Lordships as therein most neerely concerned were not others actually executed by Marshall law at such time as the Kings Iustice in his Courts of law was not to be avoyded by any person whatsoever This was in part the ground of the eight question This question is plaine a late introduced practise here contrary to former use and no appearing president to warrant such prosecution for a voluntary Oath and the great benefit and quiet accrewed to his Majesties people by arbiterments conceived by consent of parties hath in part occasioned this question Heretofore this Confession was not required for the Iustnesse of the Iudgements was then able enough to beare them up and if the judgement in some Case had beene otherwise what force can the confession of a delinquent add to a Iudiciall act this is part of the reason for this question A complaint exhibited in the house of Commons touching the denyall of the Copy of a Record which the complaynant undertooke to Iustifie in part raised this question In King Iames his time by an order conceived in the Court of Exchequer upon great debate and warranted by ancient presidents the respite of homage was reduced to a certaintie viz. two shillings sixe pence sterling For a Mannor yearly and so for Townes and other portions of Land this course was alwayes held untill now of late the respite is arbitrarily raysed as appeares by the second remembrances certificate viz. I finde that anciently before the beginning of King Iames his raigne every Mannor payed three shillings foure pence Irish per annum every Towne-land twentie pence Irish per à nnum as a fine for respite of homage but cannot finde any order or warrant for it untill the fifth yeare of the said Kings raigne and there in Easter Terme 1607. I finde an order entred directing what homage every man should pay a Copy whereof you have already from mee the preamble of which orders sheweth that that matter had beene long depending in the Court undecided which induceth me to beleeve that there was no former president or order in it About three yeares after the freeholders of the Countie of Antrim as it should seeme finding this rate to be too heavy for them they petitioned to the Lord Chichester then Lord Deputy for reliefe therein I finde his Lordships opinion to the
Court thus Recorded I know much of the petitioners Lands is waste and no part of it improved by any manner of husbandrie other then in grazing of Cattle and in sowing of little Oates And the proprietors of the Land to be for the most part very poore and needie and the two Children of Neale mac Hugh to be yet under age Wherefore I thinke it fit that the Court of Exchequer should consider thereof and rate the respite of homage accordingly for a time untill the Countie be better inhabited and these men made to understand that it is not an imposition but a lawfull duty and payment due to his Majestie This is my advise and opinion for the present xxx die April 1610. Arthur Chichester Vpon this the said Freeholders were admitted to pay but foure pence Irish every Twogh of Land it consisting of sixteene Towne-lands and according to this rate they still payed untill the yeare 1630. and then the Court taking notice of the unequalitie of it made this order 5. Febr. 1630. After this I finde that all his Majesties Tenants did conforme themselves to the said order of 1607. untill Easter Terme 1637. in which Terme this ensuing order was made which is the last that I can finde Recorded in my Office Henry VVarren I finde by the payments made in the late Queen Elizabeths time that the rates of homage payed was according to the said order of 1607. Henr. VVarren Divers were actually imprisoned and long kept in close restraint for none other cause then in dutifull manner be seeming termes to have made knowne their particular complaints to his sacred Majesty imprisonment of this kind was frequent therefore it is not improper to demaund by what law it was done Many have lost great estates and possessions by Orders of the Counsel-bord although the Deanes elected or actuall Deanes confirmed their estates if no donation from the Crown were found upon Record to the confirming Deane and this after that by verdict at the Common-law the Deanrie was found to be Elective this Question therefore is not improper After such time as this Parliament was agreed upon at Counsell-board to bee summoned some persons having prepared bloudy and destroying Bils to be past as lawes and intending to defeate by act of Parliament very many of his Majesties faithfull subjects of this kingdome of their estates and liberties and having obtayned some undue elections by threates or intreaties mistrusting that all should run cleere before them have caused twenty foure Corporations to bee seized upon the returne of the first summons in severall Quowarrantees procured by Sir Richard Osbalston late Atturney generall to shew cause why they sent Burgesses to the Parliament the said Corporations having formerly sent Burgesses to the Parliament even to the last Parliament by meanes whereof the said Corporations sent no Burgesses in the beginning of this Parliament from this act being done in a legall Court against the high Court of Parliament sprung this question which My Lords is of consequence if Parliaments be so as without question they are The faith which the Common-law giveth to verdicts the Iurors being Iudges of the fact the late usage of that great Court growing to the punishment of Iurors and others in greater numbers by heavier fines and more shamefull punishments without respect to estate age sex or qualitie then was or can be observed in all precedent times and the just sense thereof moved the house of Commons to propound these questions My Lords a poore fellow stole or was accused to have stolne a Sheepe feare or guilt or both brought him to the mountaynes another relieved him the reliever was executed as a Traytor and after the principall submits to tryall and judgment and was acquited this example My Lords I hope may warrant the question The testimony of such infamous persons have brought men of qualitie to their tryall for their lives and being acquited the Iurors being of very good ranke were heavily censured in the Castle-chamber aswell by fines surmounting their abilities as by most reprochfull punishments upon these acts the question is grounded There being no warrant in the Printed law or otherwise for ought yet appearing for to make this a Tenure in Capite the constant course of the Court of wards taking it to be no Tenure in capite since the erection of that Court untill Trinitie terme 1639. it was then and not before certified a tenure in capite by the then Atturney of that Court who said that the Iudges concurred with him in that opinion by which meanes Counsell did not then argue and the next terme after were denyed to be heard ne aliquid contra responsum prudentum this being done in the Court of wards the question did spring from thence The two and twentieth question was not yet agitated in the house of Commons nor brought thither therefore My Lords that may be deferred to a further conference By this which I have opened being the smaller part of those weighty reasons delivered unto mee by the house of Commons yet the best I can for the present remember I hope your Lordships are satisfied that those questions were not intrapping fayned or circumventing or phantazies as formerly I touched In the next place I will labour to give your Lordships a more cleere satisfaction that those questions grounded upon sufficient and apparant reasons and causes doe deserve cleare and satisfactorie answers and to remove all doubts The questions I will no more call Questions I will humbly style them Causes of weight and Consequence wherein the Lords and Commons of this Realme on the behalfe of themselves and their posteritie in after times are Plaintifes and only delinquents of an high nature are defendants in this high Court of Parliament It is not unworthy your Lordships consideration to whom the questions were put I answer unto the Iudges of the Land who are and sure I am ought to be first etate graves secondly eruditione praestantes thirdly usu rerum prudentes fourthly publica authoritate constituti The persons unto whom being thus qualified the place where is most considerable it is the high Court of Parliament the Iudges are called thither Circa ardua urgentia negotia regni of the whole kingdome what to doe Quod personaliter intersint cum Rege ac cum caeteris de consilio suo super dictis negotijs tractaturi consiliumque impensuri Therefore they are not called thither to bee ciphers in augurisme or tell clockes no those great causes are mentioned in their writ and upon that great Oath they are to give faithfull counsell and make direct answers to your Lordships in all things wherein ardua urgentia regni are concerned and whether that concernment doe comprehend the matters aforesaid I doe humbly offer to your Lordships great consideration most of the matters included in those questions are solemnely voted in both houses
Let us therefore examine the course alleadged here in both those points and if it be found to faile in eyther of them it is to be rejected As to the first I cannot find or read any president of it untill of late and the usage of it for a few yeares cannot make it to be cursus Curiae which ought to bee a custome used time beyond the memory of man As to the second it is confessed by the Iudges that they know no law to warrant this course let us see then whether it be against law or standeth with the law and I conceive it is against law for divers reasons First by the Common-law if a judgement be given against a man after a verdict of twelve men which is the chiefe and cleare proofe which the law looketh upon or upon a demurrer after solemne argument he shall in the one case have an attainte against the Iury in the other a writ of error to reverse the judgement but in this case by the confession of the justnesse of the sentence all the meanes to reverse the sentence is taken away and therefore contrary to law and reason Whereas by the Common-law fines ought to bee moderate secundum quantitatem delicti in reformationem non in destructionem of late times the fines have beene so high in destruction of the party in the Castle-chamber as his whole family and himselfe if hee did pay the fine should bee driven to begge and without performance of the sentence hee could not be admitted to reverse the sentence in respect of all which howbeit in his conscience he is not guiltie yet to gaine his libertie and save part of his estate hee is necessitated to acknowledge the justnesse of the sentence so that the confession is extorted from him and consequently is against law Third reason if the fine were secundum quantitatem delicti as it ought to be without danger of destruction the reducement of the fine had not been so necessarie and therefore no just ground for this confession Lastly the confession of the party after sentence doth rather blemish the sentence then any way cleare it for the confession comming after the sentence which ought to be just in it selfe can adde nothing to it but draw suspition upon it and in that respect a confession is strayned the racke used by the course of the Civill law in criminall causes to cleare the conscience of the Iudge to proceede to sentence is intollerable in our Common-law And therefore this course being an innovation against law without any reasonable ground the said Iudges ought in their said answer to declare so much to the end a course might bee taken for abolishing the same This answer I will not now draw into question I could wish the rest were answered no worse What power have the Barons of the Court of Exchequer to rayse the respite of homage arbitrarily c. Vnto this they answer that untill the Kings Tenant by knights service in capite hath done his homage the ancient course of the Exchequer hath beene and still is to issue processe to distrayne the tenants ad faciendum homagium or ad faciendum finem pro homagio suo respectuando upon which processe the Sheriffe returnes issues and if the tenant doe not appeare and compound with the King to give a fine for respite of homage then the issues are forfeyted to the King But if the Kings tenant will appeare the Court of the Exchequer doth agree with him to respite his homage for a small fine They say further that it resteth in the discretion of the Court by the rule of the Common-law to lay downe a fine for respite of homage according to the yearely value of the said lands which I conceive to be very unreasonable and inconvenient that it should lye in the power of any to assesse a fine for respite of homage such as to him shall be thought meete in discretion for if so hee may raise the fine to such a summe as may exceed the very value of the lands Neyther hath the same beene the ancient course for it appeares by severall ancient Records and by an Order of the Court of Exchequer made Termino pascae 1607. that there should be payed for respiting of homage for every Towneship xx d. Irish and for every Mannor xxxx d. Irish and that such as hold severall houses acres or parcels of land which are not Mannors nor Towneship shall pay for everie hundred and twentie Acres of Land Meadow and pasture or of any of them xx d. Irish and no more and according to that rate and proportion if a greater or lesser number of Acres and for every house without ground iiij d. Irish and of Cottages or Farme houses which bee upon the Lands no fine to bee payed for them solely alone And I conceive where a man holdeth severall parcels of land of the King by severall homages that in such case he is to pay but for one respite of homage onely and no more for that a man is to doe homage but once and consequently to pay for one respite of homage onely The late course in the Exchequer here hath been contrary whereas in their answer they goe in the Exchequer according to the statute of primo Iacobi cap. 26. in England under their favour they goe cleare contrary for that statute was made in confirmation and pursuance of former Orders in the Exchequer Whereas the Barons here goe directly contrary to the ancient course and Order of the Exchequer in this kingdome more of this in my reason or ground for this question So I conclude their answer to this is short My Lords the question contaynes two points First whether the subject of this kingdome is censurable for to repayre into England to appeale to his Majesty for redresse of injuries or for his lawfull occasions Secondly why what condition of persons and by what law The first part of the Iudges their answer is positive and full viz. They know no law or statute for such censure nor I neyther and could wish they had stayed there In the second part of their answer they come with an if viz. unlesse they be prohibited by his Majesties writ proclamation or command and make mention of the statute of 5. Rich. 2. cap. 2. in England and 25. Henr. 6. cap. 2. in Ireland I will onely speake to the second part of this answer My Lords the house of Commons in the discussion of this point tooke two things into consideration First what the Common-law was in such cases Secondly what alteration was made of the Common-law by the statute of 5. Rich. 2. cap. 2. in England and 25. Henr. 6. cap. 2. in Ireland as to the subjects of Ireland As for the first the Register hath a writ framed in the point viz. the writ De securitate in venienda quod se non divertat ad partes extras
sine licentia Domini Regis Fitz. Natur. br fol. 85 the words of this writ cleares the Common-law in the point it begins with a datum est nobis intelligi c. The King being informed that such person or persons in particular doe intend to goe whether ad partes exteras viz. foraigne Countries to what purpose to prosecute matters to the prejudice of the King his Crowne the King in such a case by his writ warrant or Command under the great Seale privie Seale privy Signet or by proclamation may command any subject not to depart the kingdome without the Kings licence this writ is worthy to be observed for the causes aforesaid therein expressed the writ extendeth only to particular person or persons not to all the subjects of the kingdome no man can affirme that England is pars extera as to us Ireland is annexed to the Crowne of England and governed by the lawes of England our question set forth the cause viz. to appeale to the King for Iustice or to goe to England for other lawfull causes whereas the said writ intends practises with foraigne Princes to the prejudice of the King and his Crowne At the Common-law if a subject in contempt of this Command went ad partes exteras his Lands and goods ought to be seized 2. 3. Philip Mary Dy. 128. b. and yet if the subject went to the parts beyond the Seas before any such speciall inhibition this was not punishable before the statute of 5. Rich. 2. cap. 2. as appeares 12. 13. Elizab. Dy. 296. a. So that before the inhibition the law was indifferent now the question is at Common-law whether the subject of Ireland having no Office can be hindered to appeale or goe to the King for Iustice The King is the fountaine of Iustice and as his power is great to command so the Scepter of his Iustice is as great nay the Scepter hath the priority if any be for at his Coronation his Scepter is on his right side his Sword on his left side to his Iustice he is sworne therefore if any writ Commandement or proclamation bee obtayned from him or published contrary to his Iustice it is not the act of the King but the act of him that misinformed him then will I adde the other words of the question viz. or other his lawfull occasions as I said before in the case of a writ of error in the Kings Bench of England or in the Parliament of England which are remedies given by the law therefore the Common-law doth not hinder any man to prosecute those remedies which are given to everie subject by the same A scire facias may be brought by the King in England to repeale a patent under the great Seale of Ireland of lands in Ireland 20. Henr. 6. fol. a. An exchange of lands in England for lands in Ireland is a good exchange in law 8. ass placit. 27. 10. Edw. 3. fol. 42. tempor Edw. 1. Fitz voucher 239. What law therefore can prohibit any subject for to attend this scire facias in England or to make use of his freehold got by exchange The law being thus then it was considered what alteration was wrought by one branch of the statute of 5 Rich. 2. cap. 2. by which the passage is stopped out of the kingdome Lords notable Marchants and the Kings souldiers excepted I conceive this statute doth not include Ireland I never heard any Irishman questioned upon this statute for going into England nor any Englishman for comming into Ireland untill the late proclamation by the statute 34. Edw. 3. c. 18. in England all persons which have their heritage or possessions in Ireland may come with their beasts corne c. to and fro paying the Kings dues The statute of 5. Rich. 2. did never intend by implication to avoyde the said expresse statute of Edw. 3. betweene the Kings two kingdomes being governed by one law in effect the same people the words of the statute of 5. Rich. 2. are observable the principall scope of it is against the exportation of Bullion in the later part there is a clause for licences to be had in particular Portes by which I conceive that the Customers of those Portes may grant a let passe in such Cases It is therefore to be considered whether that branch of the said statute of 5. Rich. 2. was received in Ireland I thinke it is cleare it was not for by the statute 10. Henr. 7. cap. 22. in Ireland all the generall statutes of England were received in Ireland with this qualification viz. such as were for the Common and publicke weale c. And surely it cannot be for the weale of this kingdome that the subjects here be stayed from obtayning of Iustice or following other lawfull causes in England The statute of 25. Henr. 6. cap. 2. in Ireland excuseth absentes by the Kings command and imposeth no other penaltie so that upon the whole matter this question is not answered For so much as they doe answer of this question the answer is good for there is no doubt to be made but Deaneries are some donative some elective and some may be presentative according to the respective foundations I will only speake of a Deane de facto if a Deane bee made a Bishop and hath a dispensation Decanatus dignitatem in commenda in the retinere the confirmation of such a Deane is good in law This was the case of Evans and Acough in the Kings Bench in England Ter. 3. Caroli where Doctor Thornbow Deane of Yorke was made Bishop of Limmericke with a dispensation to hold in the retinere after his patent and before consecration it was adjudged his confirmation was good and yet if a Deane be made a Bishop in any part of the world this is a Cession Co. 5. 102. a. VVindsors case Davis Rep. 42. 43. c. The Deane of Fernes his case 18. Elizab. Dy. 346. the confirmation of a meere Laicus being Deane is good though he be after deprived 10. Eliz. Dy. 273. 12. 13. Elizab. Dy. 293. although the Deane be after deprived by sentence declaratorie yet his precedent confirmations are good So I conceive that a Deane who hath stallum in Choro vocem in Capitulo during all the time of his life and never questioned and usually confirmed all Leases without interruption is good And to question all such acts 40. 50. 100. yeares after is without president especially in Ireland untill of late yeares and in this kingdome few or no foundations of Bishopricks or Deaneries can bee found upon any Record therefore I conceive the Iudges ought to answer this part of the question My Lords I know you cannot forget the grounds I layd before for this question nor the time nor the occasion of the issuing of Quo warrantoes nor what was done thereupon in the Court of Exchequer Now remayneth to consider of the answer
with other proofes is not materiall for other proofe will doe the deede without this bad concurrence and so will a violent presumption as if two goe safe into a Roome one of them is found stabbed to death the other may suffer this presumption is inevitable the law of God the lawes and statutes of the Realme protect and preserve the life of man it were therefore hard to take away by circumstance such a reall and noble essence This concurrence marrs the evidence it helps it not If one gives false testimonie once by the ancient law his testimonie shall never be received againe Leges Canuti Regis Lamb Saxons lawss fol. 113. p. 34. much lesse where they are notorious ill doers this and the reason and ground of this question already opened will I hope give your Lordships satisfaction For this question I will state it without any tenure reserved by expresse words as the question is put whether the reservation of rent or Annuall summe will rayse this to bee a tenure in capite I conceive it will not for sundrie reasons First from the beginning there have beene Fayres and Markets and no president booke-case or Record to warrant the new opinion in this Case before Trinitie terme 1639. in the Court of wards Secondly the practise of that Court was alwayes before to the contrary in the same and the like Cases Thirdly it is a thing as the question is of new creation and never in esse before for this see the Bookes of 3. Henr. 7. 4. 12. Henr. 7. 19. 15. E. 4. 14. 46. E. 3. 12. 21. Henr. 6. 11. Stamford prerogative 8. Therefore there is no necessitie of a tenure thereof upon the Conquest it was necessarie that all lands should be held by some tenure for the defence of the kingdome 1. The statute of Quia emptores terrarum c. praerogativa Regis speake of Feoffator Feoffatores c. therefore a tenure I meane this tacite or implyed tenure was originally onely intended of Land 2. The King may reserve a tenure in all things not mainerable by expresse reservation or Covenant 44. Edw. 3. 45. Fitz. natur brevium 263. c. but that is not our Case 3. Heere it is left to construction of Law which is aequissimus Iudex and lookes upon the nature of things and therefore in Cases that include Land or where land may come in liew therof a tenure may be by implication as a mesnalty a reversion expectant upon an intayle the like 10. Edw. 44. a. 42. Edw 3. 7. Fitz. Grants 102. and divers other bookes 4. No tenure can be implyed by reason of a rent if the rent be not distreynable by some possibility of its owne nature upon the thing granted as appeares by 5. Henr. 7. 36. 33. Henr. 6. 35. 40. Ed. 3. 44. 1. Henr. 4. 1. 2. 3. Fitz-cessabit 17. 5. The distresse upon other land is the Kings meere prerogative like the case of Buts Co. 6. 25. a distresse may be for rent in other land by Covenant 6. This is no rent because it issueth not out of land 7. If the Patentee here had no land there can be no distresse in this case 8. This is a meere priviledge it issueth out of no lands and participates nothing of the nature of land all the cases of tenures in our bookes are eyther of land or things arising out of land or some way or other of the nature of land or that may result into land or that land by some possibilitie may result into it Therefore I humbly conceive that new opinion is not warranted by law or president These My Lords are in part the things which satisfied the house of Commons in all the matters aforesaid they are now left to the judgement and Iustice of your Lordships QVESTIONS PROPOVNDED IN PARLIAMENT AND Declarations of the Law thereupon in Parliament WHither the Subjects of this kingdome bee a free people and to be governed onely by the Common-lawes of England and statutes of force in this kingdome The subjects of this his Majesties kingdome of Ireland are a free people and to be governed onely according to the Common-law of England and Statutes made established by Parliament in this kingdome of Ireland and according to the lawfull customes used in the same VVhither the Iudges of this land doe take the Oath of Iudges and if so whether under pretext of any Act of State Proclamation writ letter or direction under the great or privie Seale or privie Signet or Letter or other Commandment from the Lord Lieutnant Lord Deputy Iustice or other chiefe Governor or Governors of this kingdome they may hinder stay or delay the suite of any subject or his Iudgement or execution thereupon if so in what cases and whether if they doe hinder stay or delay such suite judgement or execution thereupon what punishment doe they incurre for their deviation and transgression therein That Iudges in Ireland ought to take the Oath of the Iustices or Iudges declared and established in severall Parliaments of force in this kingdome and the said Iudges or any of them by colour or under pretext of any act of state or proclamation or under colour or pretext of any writ Letter or direction under the great Seale privie Seale or privie Signet from the Kings most Excellent Majestie or by colour or pretext of any Letter or Commandement from the chiefe Governor or Governors of this kingdome ought not to hinder or delay the suite of any subject or his judgement or execution thereupon and if any letters writs or commaunds come from his Majestie or any other or for any other cause to the Iustices or to other deputed to doe the law and right according to the usage of the Realme in disturbance of the law or of the execution of the same or of right to the parties the Iustices and other aforesaid ought to proceed and hold their Courts and processes where the pleas and matters bee depending before them as if no such letters writs or commaundments were come to them and in case any Iudge or Iudges Iustice or Iustices bee found in default therein he or they so found in default ought to incurre and undergoe due punishment according the law and the former declarations and provisions in Parliament in the case made and of force in this kingdome or as shall be ordered adjudged or declared in Parliament And the Barons of the Exchequer Iustices of assize and Goale-delivery if they be found in default as aforesaid it is hereby declared that they ought to undergoe the punishment aforesaid VVhether the Kings Majesties privie Councell eyther with the chiefe Governor or Governors of the kingdome or without him or them be a place of Iudicature by the Common-lawes and wherein causes betweene party and party for debts trespasses accompts possession or title of Lands or any of them and which of them may bee heard and determined and
of what Civill causes they have jurisdiction and by what law and of what force is their order or decree in such cause or any of them That the Councell-table of this Realme eyther with the chiefe Governor or Governors is no Iudicatorie wherein any action reall personall popular or mixt or any suite in the nature of the said actions or any of them can or ought to bee commenced heard or determined and all proceedings at the Councell-table in any suite in the nature of any of the said actions are voyde especially causes particularly provided for by expresse acts of Parliament of force in this kingdome onely exempted The like of the chiefe Governor above The proceedings before the chiefe Governor or Governors alone in any action reall personall popular or mixt or in any suite in the nature of any of the said actions are Coram non Iudice and voyde VVhether grants of Monopolies be warranted by the law and of what and in what cases and how and where and by whome are the pretended transgressors against such grants punishable and whether by fine mutillation of members imprisonment losse and forfeyture of goods or otherwise and which of them All grants of Monopolies are contrary to the lawes of this Realme and therefore voyde and no subject of the said Realme ought to bee fined imprisoned or otherwise punished for exercising or using their lawfull liberty of a subject contrary to such grants In what cases the Lord Lieutenant Lord Deputie or other chiefe governor or governors of this kingdome and Councell may punish by fine imprisonment mutillation of members pillory or otherwise and whether they may sentence any to such the same or the like punishment for infringing the commaunds of or concerning any proclamation of and concerning Monopolies and what punishment doe they incurre that vote for the same The Lord Lieutenant Lord Deputy or other chiefe governor or governors and Councell of this Realme or any of them ought not to imprison any of his Majesties subjects but onely in Cases where the Common-lawes or statutes of the Realme doe enable and warrant them so to doe they ought not to fine or to censure any subjects in mutillation of members standing on the pillory or other shamefull punishment in any case at the Councell-table and no subject ought to be imprisoned fined or otherwise punished for infringing any commaunds or proclamation for the support or countenance of Monopolies And if in any case any person or persons shall bee committed by the commaund or warrant of the chiefe governor or governors and privie Councell of this Realme or any of them that in every such case every such person or persons so committed restrayned of his or their libertie or suffering imprisonment upon demaund or motion made by his or their Councell or other imployed by him or them for that purpose unto the Iudges of the Court of Kings-bench or Common-pleas in open Court shall without delay upon any pretence whatsoever for the ordinarie fees usually payed for the same have forthwith granted unto them or him a writ or writts of Habeas Corpus to be directed generally to all and every Sheriffe Gaoler-minister officer or other person in whose custody the party or parties so committed or restrayned shall be shall at the returne of the said writ or writs and according to the commaund thereof upon due and convenient notice thereof given unto him at the charge of the party or parties who requireth or procureth such writ or writs and upon securitie by his or their owne Bond or Bonds given to pay the charge of carrying backe the prisoner or prisoners if hee or they shall bee remanded by the Court to which he or they shal be brought as in like causes hath beene used such charges of bringing up and carrying backe the prisoner or prisoners to be alwayes ordered by the Court if any difference shall arise there about to bring or cause to be brought the body or bodies of the said partie or parties so committed or restrayned unto before the Iudges Iustices of the said Court from whence the same writ or writs shall issue in open Court shall then likewise certifie the true cause of such his or their detayner or imprisonment and thereupon the Court after such returne made and delivered in open Court shall proceed to examine and determine whether the cause of such commitment appearing upon the said returne be just and legall or not and shall thereupon doe what to justice shall appertayne eyther by delivering bayling or remanding the prisoner or prisoners Of what force is an act of state or proclamation in this kingdome to bind the libertie goods possessions or inheritance of the Natives thereof whether they or any of them can alter the Common law or the infringers of them loose their goods chattels or leases or forfeyte the same by infringing any such act of state proclamation or both and what punishment doe the sworne Iudges of the law that are privy Councellors incurre that vote for such acts and execution thereof An act of state or proclamation in this kingdom cannot bind the libertie inheritance possession or goods of the subjects of the said kingdome nor alter the Common-law and the infringers of any such act of state or proclamation ought not to forfeyte lands leases goods or chatels for the infringing of any such act of state or proclamation And the Iudges of the law who doe vote for such acts of state or proclamation are punishable as breakers and violaters of their Oathes of Iudges Are the subjects of this kingdome subject to the marshall law whether any man in time of peace no enemie being in the field with banner displaid can be sentenced to death if so by whom and in what causes if not what punishment doe they incurre that in time of peace execute marshall law No subject of this kingdome ought to bee sentenced to death or executed by Marshall-law in time of peace and if any subject be so sentenced or executed by marshall-law in time of peace the authors actors of any such sentence or execution are punishable by the law of the land for their so doing as doers of their owne wrong and contrarie to the said law of the land VVhether voluntary Oathes taken freely before arbitrators for affirmance or disaffirmance of any thing or for the true performance of any thing be punishable in the Castle-chamber or any other Court why or wherfore No man ought to bee punished in the Castle-chamber or in any other Court for taking a voluntary Oath before arbitrators for affirmance or disaffirmance of any thing or the true performance of any thing in civill causes nor are the arbitrators before whom such voluntary oathes shall be taken punishable VVhy and by what law or by what rule of policie is it that none is admitted to reducement of fines