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A19060 A refutation of M. Ioseph Hall his apologeticall discourse, for the marriage of ecclesiasticall persons directed vnto M. Iohn VVhiting. In which is demonstrated the marriages of bishops, priests &c. to want all warrant of Scriptures or antiquity: and the freedome for such marriages, so often in the sayd discourse vrged, mentioned, and challenged to be a meere fiction. Written at the request of an English Protestant, by C.E. a Catholike priest. Coffin, Edward, 1571-1626. 1619 (1619) STC 5475; ESTC S108444 239,667 398

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say should haue continency but he who would haue it For no man would take it but he who would haue it but if yow aske me of whome it is giuen that it may be receaued and had of our wil marke the Scripture yea because you know it remember what you haue read When I knew sayth Wisedome that no man could be continent vnles God gaue it and this was a part of wisedome to know whose gift it was for these are great gifts wisedome and continency wisedome I say by which we are framed in the knowledge of God and continency by which we are withdrawne from the world God commandeth vs that we be wise that we be continent without which benefits we cannot be iust and perfect And a little after Qui dedit coniugatis fidelibus vt contineant ab adulterijs c. He who hath giuen grace to marryed folkes that they abstaine from aduowtryes or fornications he hath also giuen grace to holy virgins and widdows to conteyne themselus from all knowledge of men in which vertue integrity of life ●y continuall chastity and continency are now properly named So S. Austine Let M. Hall mark well this argumēt Out of whose words I frame against M. Hall this Syllogisme It is as well in the power of single men to be alwayes continēt as it is in the power of the marryed to keep coniugall chastity but the chastity of wedlocke is in the power of the marryed Ergo the other is in the power of the continent and then further out of the same Father Gods concurrence with vs by his grace which in euery good action is necessary ouerthroweth not our free will but doth perfect it and consequently as well the election as obseruance of single life dost rest alwayes in our power and will and is not impossible and necessary but free and voluntary 12. And if in the state of matrimony grace be giuen to both partyes to remayne faythfull to ech other and that to the end of their liues Virgins as more vnited vnto God then marryed folke so haue more strength to perseuere in their vocation notwithstanding that continall cohabitation breed so many causes of distast and the feruentest affections in many do wax cold and much decrease with tyme shall such want his help who for his loue despise all earthly louers and haue made choice of himself the author louer of all pure desires Shal he better loue such who are deuided as the Apostle sayth from his seruice by marriage then those who to serue him the better haue withdrawne themselues from all wordly encombrances that might deuide them and bestowed themselues wholy vpon his seruice or shall the grace of God graunted to virgins be of lesse force to keep them faythfull to their louer then that which is giuen to them who for carnall loue are combyned togeather These men who are thus perswaded would neuer August l. de virgin cap. 54. Ambr. l. ● de virginib initio preach vnto virgins as S. Augustin did when he sayd Si nuptias contempsistis filiorum hominum ex quibus gigneretis filios hominum toto corde amate speciosum forma prae filijs hominum vacat vobis liberum est cor à coniug alibus vinculis inspicite pulchritudinem amatoris vestri c. If you haue despised the marriages of the sonnes of men by whome you might beget the sonnes of men with all your hart loue him who is fayrer then the sonnes of men You haue leasure inough your hart is free from matrimony bands looke vpon the beauty of your louer So. Augustine And againe Si magnum amorem Lib. citat cap. 55. coniugibus deberetis c. If you should owe great loue to your husbands how much ought you to loue him for whose sake you haue refused husbands Let him be wholy fixed in your hart who for you was fixed on the Crosse let him possesse al in your soule whatsoeuer you would not haue bestowed in other marriage is it not lawfull for you to loue him a little for whom you haue not loued that which was els lawfull for you to loue And not to go further to shew the thing possible to shew it to be in our power to stand or fall to breake off or perseuere to begin and continue vnto the end he sayth Vos autem sequimini cum tenendo perseuer anter quod vouistis ardenter facite Cap. 58. cùm potestis ne virginitatis bonum à vobis pereat cùm sacere nihil potestis vt redeat You virgins see you follow Christ perseuerantly keeping what you haue vowed labour earnestly whiles you are able least yee leese your virginity sithence you are able to do nothing that if it be lost is able to recouer it So he And doth he who so teacheth so exhorteth thinke of M. Halls impossibility Doth he thinke that such virgins serue a Maister whome they must and cannot obey whome they must for their vow and cannot for their frailty His words are too cleare to be corrupted by so base a commentary 13. And no lesse plaine no lesse absolute for this purpose is S. Ambrose whose diuin books of this subiect I wish M. Hall to read for in them he shall find the excellency of this vertue not more eloquently then truely described there he shall see the arguments of Protestants answered there the keping of vows vrged veiling of Nuns mentioned this impossibility refuted for to such as did cast these suspitious doubts he sayth Facessat hic sacris virginibus metus quibus tanta praesidia Ambr. l. de Virgin propefi●ē The diuers helps which virgins haue for their perseuerance tribuit primùm Ecclesia c. Let this feare of falling be far from holy virgins to whome first the Church affoardeth so many helpes which carefull for the successe of her tender issue with full brests as a wall doth defend the same vntill the siege of the enemy be remoued then secondly of our Sauiour with stronger force and last of Angels Neque enim mirum si pro vobis Angeli militant quae Angelorum moribus militatis meretur corum praesidium castitas quorum vitam meretur castitas etiam Angelos facit It is no meruaile if for you Virgins the Angells do warre who in your behauiour do follow the purity of Angells virginall chastity deserues their help whose life it deserues for chastity also maketh Angels And in another place hauing perswaded them to ascend aboue the world saying Iustice is aboue the world charity is aboue the world chastity is aboue the world and the like he proposeth this difficulty which M. Hall proposeth saying Sed arduum Ambr. l. 3. de virgin paulò antefinem putas humana virtute supra mundum ascendere bene asseris c. But if you thinke it a hard matter for humane force to ascend aboue the world you say well For the Apostles deserued to be aboue the world not as fellows but as
of the Crosse acknowledged beare this sense that by reason it is the banner of our saluation instrument wherby we were deliuered from the sal we had in our first parents that therefore mente sermone sensu adorationem ci tribuentes c. in mynd speach and affection adoring the same c. and for this cause al crosses be forbidden to be made on the ground or pauement least by the passengers feet walking thereon victoriae tropheam iniuria assiciatur the trophey of our victory be abused Is this obserued in England do you ministers teach the people for reuerence of our Sauiours passion to make the Crosse in no place but where it may be worshipped and not on the ground least it be troden vnder foot or els do you pull them downe from the Churches where they were worshipped and tread them vnder your feet you shall not need to answere for your facts do speake shew you to be as perfect Iconoclasts as euer liued and enemyes of these Crosses whereof these Bishops were so great friends and further where you hold the worship of the Crosse Idolatry how can that Coūcell be sacred with you which so plainly commandeth it I see the loue you beare your wife M. Hall is a potent passion and far transports you seeing it forceth you to call that Synod sacred which defendeth Idolatry 60. And as in this Canon they reuerence Can. 30 the Crosse so with no lesse respect do they speak of all other holy images in the 82. calling them The vse of holy images approued venerabilium imaginum picturas the pictures of venerable images and forbidding the painting of Christ according to the shaddowes of the old law they giue order how he is to be described which care neuer troubles your thoughts who as much reuerence the picture of the Diuel as of Iesus Christ for you deny all reuerence to either and although in shops or chambers you permit them both to be painted yet within your Churches Christ his picture is as much excluded as the image of Beelzebub and sometymes it happens that in walls and windowes we see our Sauiours and his Saints pictures defaced razed and broken in peeces whiles the picture of the other stands entire and vntouched which practise in those tymes were vnknowne when images were worshipped by Christians and image breakers condemned for heretikes which hapned in the very next generall Councell held after this Trullan cōuenticle as al the world doth know 61. Of the vse of holy chrisme what better testimony can be required then the 95. Canon Can. 9● 101. and of the reall presence in the 101. where in the Communion the faythfull are sayd to receaue immaculatum corpus the immaculate body Holy chrisme and reall presence and before in the 28. where a Priest entangled with vnlawfull marriage is forbidden ne Christi corpus alijs distribuat that he distribute not the body of Christ to others by communicating them and the power of remitting and retayning sins in the last where the Priest is sayd to haue receaued power of binding and loosing and is willed to consider the quality of the sinne and sinner that thereby he may be the better able to help him all which points in our English Synagogue are paradoxes and either repugnant to the Word or wanting sufficient warrant of truth but in this Councell they were not doubted of but are all and ech of them acknowledged and approued as Catholike and sincere 62. Besides these Canons which by vs are acknowledged impugned by our Ministers there is one Canon which we do both condemne Can. 76. Forbidding of meates which haue bloud in them to wit the 76. where al meate that hath bloud in it is forbidden according to the old decree in the first Councell that euer was called in the Apostles tymes wherin it was defined that Christians should absteyne à suffocato sanguine from strangled things and bloud which being but a temporall law made to exercise the obedience of the Gentils and support the weaknes of the Iewes for a time vntill they were fully vnited and the law of Moyses had yielded to the Ghospell of Christ and all legall ceremonyes ceased these men as if we were still vnder that yoke forbid the eating of bloud which yet the Protestants do eate and feed also their seruants with blacke puddings though in Suffolke some are found to be more scrupulous as is reported in the Book of the prophane schisme of the Brownists 63. I may seeme to want compassion thus to crush one so far vnder as that he can neither go stand nor creep and indeed I could be contented with these Canons alleadged which shew the sanctity of this Trullan Synod so much magnifyed and extolled as you haue heard to shew some pitty to this poore man but that ere I end I must perforce cope closer with him and that in the very matter controuerted which combat requirs the better attention for that M. Hall aduentures far and offers if he be cast to be esteemed as faythles and I offer no lesse if I ouerbeare him not therein to vndergoe the same in●●my so as now we both must stand to our tackling or els loose all our credit M. Hall as a M. Hall 〈…〉 at his word champion casting vp his Gantlet with more courage then wit maketh this challenge If any Protestant Church sayth he in Christendome can make a more peremptory more full and absolute more cautelous de●rce for the marriage of Ecclesiasticall persons let me be condemned as faithles So he a bold proffer and I take him at his word will proue him faithles by this very Councell yea this very Canon which he doth cyte or els I giue him leaue to bestow that infamous tytle on my selfe 64. And to the end there be no mistaking in the tearmes I vnderstand by a full and absolute What is to be proued against M. Hall to proue him faithles decree such a decree as comprizeth whatsoeuer belongeth to all the things in controuersy in that matter wherein it is made for if it should touch one only part and not another it were neither full nor absolute but rather defectiue and limited so as when M. Hall sayth that this decree of Vrullum is full and absolute for the marriage of Ecclesiasticall persons and that no Protestant Church in Christendome can make one more full it must necessarily follow that it absolutly and fully concludeth all this matter of the marriage of Clergy men in most ample manner and that if it be defectiue in any one point it is not so full and absolute but that a fuller more absolute may be made by Protestants if they should meet togeather to make one as in King Edwards dayes they did this he must vnderstand or els he vnderstandeth not himselfe and this if I disproue I proue him faythles I meane if I shew this Canon not to