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A00759 A defence of the liturgie of the Church of England, or, Booke of common prayer In a dialogue betweene Nouatus and Irenæus. By Ambrose Fisher, sometimes of Trinitie Colledge in Cambridge. Fisher, Ambrose, d. 1617.; Grant, John, fl. 1630. 1630 (1630) STC 10885; ESTC S122214 157,602 344

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Infants are prasented in Baptisme So they were in Circumcision Presentation of the Childe to l Luke 2. 22. God And therefore the thing it selfe is also disanulled I. That was not the only end thereof For in case the Childe died yet the Mother was to be purified And therefore that place in Luke doth admit a double reading either the purification of her m 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 or of n 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 them that is of the Mother and the Childe There was an other end more peculiar to the Mother N. That is sacrificing as appeares o Leuit. 12. 6. by I. But what dutie by that sacrifice was intimated N. Two principall duties were insinuated First the acknowledgement of her sinne For which cause besides the great Purification which was performed in her owne separation seuen dayes if it were a Male and in the Circumcision of the Childe vpon the eight day but in case it were a female in separation for fourteene dayes she had also the lesse purification which endured thirtie three dayes if it were a sonne and sixtie six if a daughter whereby was signified First that the the sinne of Euah was p A double Sinne a double purification and repentance double to that of Adam For he sinned alone shee deceiued him also Secondly that shee deriued sinne from her selfe to her children For this cause also shee offered a sinne offering Secondly as for the whole burnt Offering it was Eucharisticall namely a thankesgiuing for her safe deliuerance I. It is manifest then though sacrifice bee abolisht yet confession of sinnes and thankesgiuings for benefits doe remaine N. That these things remaine we denie not But why should they be publique By the same reason euery man that hath escaped shipwracke warre or fire should present his publike thankes in the Church I. If it were so were the pot broken or the waterspilt Did not the Prophet so in the q Ps 116. 13 14 Psalme In publike benefits wee solemnize publike thankesgiuings Now the benefit of deliuerance from the paines of child-birth is in a manner publique Forasmuch as these dolours were inflicted vpon the whole r Gen. 3. 16. female sexe N. The Iudaisme of your purification appeares First in that you bring in the vaile which is a ragge of Superstition I. What thinke you of Rebeccaes vaile which she put on in the presence of ſ Gen. 14. 65. Isaac N. It was a modell of her modestie but what is that to the vaile in the Church I. Not only that modestie but euen that vaile is required by Saint Paul in the t 1 Cor. 11. 10. Congregation N. It is imposed vpon all women not vpon them alone which come to be Churched I. Can you indure Saint Paul making it a perpetuall ordinance and yet not tolerate it in vs which doe not so much command it to bee vsed as shew what is decent Certainly if it be at all times comely then especially at that time when women being guiltie of their owne infirmities should shew the greatest symbols of shamefastnesse in Publique Assemblies From which for a time by necessitie of corrupted nature they haue beene separated N. The second argument of your Iudaisme is the offering imposed vpon Women I. Doe you dislike the thing or the name N. Wee doe not so much insist vpon the thing as being pretended to bee a dutie or due to the Minister but the tearme Offering is Iewish I. Tithes were Offerings u Numb 18. 24. to God But Tithes were duties due to the x Numb 18. 31. Priests as being the recompence for their seruice Therefore the duties of the Priest are indeed and may be called Offerings N. In this reason I obserue two things First that you make things due to the Minister to bee Wages or Stipends whereas some of your fellowes thinke Stipends as bad as Almes I. Stipends from the wauering multitude without Charter or Patent differ not in nature from Almes But Honourable Stipends set downe by the Lawes of God and the Prince we disallow not For as the stipend of a Souldier is giuen by the Prince though it be deducted from the tribute imposed vpon the People So the tithes of the Priests are God's Stipends though first consecrated to God by the people his tributaries N. If a man hire workmen to make a bridge for the benefit of the Countrie shall wee not say that he giueth a great Almes I. No doubt hee doth to the Countrey but not to the labourers vnlesse they take their hire and worke not And yet euen then are they not almesmen but theeues and are compellable both to make restitution and to suffer punishment In like manner he that erecteth a Church and giueth maintenance to a Priest doth indeed a singular almes to the people but none to the Priest vnlesse hee bee vnfaithfull and yet euen then he is not an almesman but a robber and stands answerable to his Superiours vnder God N. If all the people then giue tithes doe they giue almes to themselues I. They giue their homage to God and to the Minister they performe an action of Iustice not of liberalitie If any almes be it is to themselues For example If the maker of the Bridge of which we spake doe thereby reape to his owne person some maine benefit as the preseruation of his life and the like may not hee bee said in a sort to haue giuen himselfe an almes N. The second thing remarkeable in your reason is that you seem to maintain Iewish Tithes I. Tithes we defend but not as Iewish For whereas among the Iewes there were fiue kinds of Tithes First Prediall or great Tithes due to the Priests and a Leuit. ●7 30. Numb 18. 24. Leuits Secondly Personall called the offerings of the b Deut. 12 6. hands due to the same likewise Thirdly the Tithe of Tithes due to the High c Numb 18. 26. Priest Fourthly the Anniuersarie d Deut. 14. 22. Tithes which were spent in the Voyage to and from the Tabernacle in which the Leuite had also a part Fiftly the e Deut. 14. 28. Three yeares Tithes whereof part likewise came to the Leuite we hold that prediall and personall tithes are due to Ministers The tithe of tithes partly to the Prince partly to the Bishops The yearely and three yeare tithes partly to the reparations of Churches Schooles and Colledges yea and if need were for their erection partly for the maintenance of the Ministers themselues where their ordinary tithes are not found competent and of the poore N. To let passe your fancies proue in generall tithes to be due to the Ministers of the Gospell and not to the Priests of Aaron's order only I. Tithes were due to f Gen. 14. 20. Heb. 7. 4. Melchisedech who was no Priest according to the order of Aaron and therefore not due to the Leuiticall Priests only N. Abraham indeed paid tithes yet not
it 1. Sam. 6. 9. not found in Scriptures taken vp by the Godly And no maruell seeing by this word the Prouidence of God is denied and our ignorances of second Causes proclaimed I. This tearme is taken vp by Christ himselfe Compare 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 Luke 10. 31. with the verse of Empedocles cited by Aristotle Phis Lib. 2. cap. 4. where hee saith that by chance there came a Priest Now for the denying of God's prouidence it is vntrue Chance being either meere or mixt Meere Chance derogateth from the all-seeing prouidence of God so doth not mixt chance For although all things bee most certainly appointed and foreseene by God yet he ordaineth some second causes to bee vnfallible some to be mutable and contingent This is most manifest in the will of man which though it bee not free from the necessitie of infallibilitie whereby the secret operation of God doth bow it to what side of the ballance he will yet is it most free from the necessitie of Coaction So that our actions howsoeuer conditionally they bee necessary namely in regard of God's Decree yet absolutely in their owne nature they proceed from a cause contingent and changeable N. By this you perceiue that by GODS Decree there can bee no Chance I. There are two degrees of Gods Decree First generall whereby hee decreeth things in their owne absolute nature to be contingent and free Secondly more speciall whereby he determineth the indifferencie and contingencie of things enclining them according to his owne good pleasure In regard of the former Chance may and must be allowed not only in respect of the second causes as the common opinion runneth but euen in regard of Gods Determination the first cause of the being of all things N. Besides words we blame Doctrine intimated in your Collects The first whereof is the Doctrine of Merit insinuated in these words vpon Ashwednesday or the First Day in Lent that we worthily lamenting our sinnes and knowledging our wretchednesse may obtaine of thee the God of all mercie perfect remission and forgiuenesse Here the cause of the pardon of sinnes is made to bee our lamentation for them and acknowledgement of them I. It is not the cause but the concurrent concomitant or rather antecedent thereof and that not for the purchasing of it but of the assurance of the same to our consciences For although the forgiuenesse of our sinnes be in nature before repentance whereof the things named in the Collect are effects and signes Neuerthelesse in regard of apprehension thereof which some call Certioration it doth oft times follow the same Tell me when Christ said Many sinnes are forgiuen her because she loued Luke 7. 47. much Did he make her loue the cause of the remission of her sinnes N. No but rather the contrary For he maketh her to loue much because her manifold sins were pardoned So that her loue was an effectuall signe not an efficient cause of the condonation of her iniquities I. The like may bee said of those thinges which are mentioned in the Collect. N. Nay but you make forgiuenesse of sinnes to be obtained by these things I. Did not Elias obtaine the restraint of raine 1. Kings 17. 1. Iames 5. 17. by Prayer N. Not by the merit of his owne Prayer but for that his Prayer issued from faith which apprehended CHRIST vpon whose merit all the efficacie of Prayer doth depend I. So our Lamentation c. proceedeth from Repentance Repentance issueth from Faith Faith layeth hold vpon Christ of whose onely merit all the force of our lamentation and Confession of sinnes dependeth And what is all this to Popish Merit If your iealousie did not prouoke you to coine vnthought of errours in our Liturgie N. The second is the Doctrine of Despaire which you manifest in two Collects First in that vpon the twelfth Sunday after Trinitie in these words giuing to vs that that our prayer dare not presume to aske Secondly in the fift Collect after the Offertorie Those things which for our vnworthinesse we dare not and for our blindnesse we cannot aske vouchsafe to giue vs In both which wee espie a double fault First a contradiction for you pretend that you dare not aske and yet doe aske I. What thinke you of that contradiction I beleeue Lord helpe my vnbeliefe Marke 9. 24. N. It is only in appearance For he might in a confused generalitie beleeue that the Messias was able to performe this Miracle and yet in distinct specialtie did not beleeue that this Iesus was the Messias Or else he might doubt because he had no particular promise howsoeuer he beleeued Gods Vniuersall Power and Goodnesse Or lastly he might distrust in regard of his owne vnworthinesse and yet conceiue no scruple of Christ's potent mercie I. So may we aske that of God through Christ which wee dare not craue when wee consider our owne vnworthinesse looking downe like the Swan or Peacocke to our foule feet N. The second fault offensiue is that you Pro. 28. 1. Ephes ● 12. Heb. 4. 16. renounce that boldnesse and confidence which Salomon Saint Paul and the Authour to the Hebrewes doe commend I. Why was not Saint Paul the Authour to the Hebrewes N. We shall reason of that in Matrimonie returne therefore to your argument I. The same Salomon then that ascribeth the boldnesse of Lions to righteous men doth elsewhere pronounce him blessed that feareth Prou. 28. 14. alwayes And the same Apostle which exhorteth vs to confidence doth charge vs to finish our saluation with feare and trembling for wee Phil. 2. 12. may bee bold in regard of God's endlesse mercie and yet feare in a double respect First with the feare of reuerence which causeth the Angels to couer their faces with their wings Secondly with a feare of Gods displeasure Jsa 6. 2. vpon the deepe consideration of our owne indignitie in regard of our manifold transgressions partly secret partly breaking out vpon the least occasion By the first wee doe weigh our owne infirmitie as wee are creatures by the latter our vilitie as we are Sinners and haue the flesh mingled with the spirit Besides this caution which is plainly expressed in the latter Collect in these words which wee for our vnworthinesse dare not whereby wee intimate that yet we dare through the Dignitie of Christ There is yet an other clause in the former Collect namely in these words which our Prayer dare not presume whereby all scruple is remoued For you that talke so much of the spirit of Prayer will you reckon Presumption among the vertues thereof N. No but we reckon it among your vices that make confidence presumption For to craue what God in Christ hath promised is no presumption but confidence and to doubt thereof is Diffidence not Humilitie I. To doubt in reguard of Christ is diffidence but to make a demurre in reguard of our owne imbecilitie is true lowlinesse N. From the Peoples