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A15093 The way to the true church wherein the principall motiues perswading according to Romanisme and questions touching the nature and authoritie of the church and scriptures, are familiarly disputed, and driuen to their issues, where, this day they sticke betweene the Papists and vs: contriued into an answer to a popish discourse concerning the rule of faith and the marks of the church. And published to admonish such as decline to papistrie of the weake and vncertaine grounds, whereupon they haue ventured their soules. Directed to all that seeke for resolution: and especially to his louing countrimen of Lancashire. By Iohn White minister of Gods word at Eccles. For the finding out of the matter and questions handled, there are three tables: two in the beginning, and one in the end of the booke. White, John, 1570-1615. 1608 (1608) STC 25394; ESTC S101725 487,534 518

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Is it our doctrine of predestination Why you shall see presently the learned of their owne side teach it as we do Is it because we deny free will why they belie their owne knowledge they know we deny it but onely in part Is it because we teach God is the author of sinne why i Suar. Opusc l. 2. c. 2. their owne Iesuites confesse The Protestants know well that God intendeth not that which is formall in sinne himselfe nor inclineth the will of man that he should intend it Or is it finally because we hold some fatall necessitie constraining the will of man that he cannot do otherwise then he doth that so all care and consultation should be to no purpose Why we teach the contrary These and such like being malicious and base imputations deuised by men in their fury and desperate aduentures against vs to seduce the ignorant and to make our cause odious which euen their owne people would embrace if they knew it 44 For first touching Predestination we hold according to k Rom. 9. Eph. 1 4.5 1. Thes 5.9 2. Tim 2.20 1. Pet. 2 8. the Scripture that God from all eternitie before the world was made hath not onely foreseene all things that could be or should be vpon his appointment or permission but also by an vnchangeable decree hath fore-ordained all things and persons to certaine determinate ends for his owne glory and that neither the Saints were elected in Christ to infallible and perseuering grace and eternal glory for their foreseene righteousnes nor the reprobate refused or not elected to the same for their foreseene wickednesse but both the one and the other were predestinated to those their seuerall estates according to the coūsell of Gods own will which was not moued therunto by any thing that he foresaw in the parties but most freely decreed it according to his owne pleasure and absolute dominion that he hath ouer the creature And this decree of Gods will is the first and highest mouer of all other wils and things in the creature wherupon l Pr●ma radix contingentiae rerum est voluntas diuina efficacissima ad faciendum res non solum quantum ad substantiā sed etiam quantum ad omnem modum ipsarum quantū ad fieri quantum ad esse See Tho. 1. part q. 19. ibi Caiet Capreol 1. d. 38 con 2. the smallest and most contingent or casuall things also that fall out depend as vpon their vniuersall cause whose influence into the second causes directeth produceth inclineth and ordinateth them to their effects not by inforcing thē as the will of man for example by any naturall necessitie or constraint but by inclining them to worke according to their condition m Deus ita voluit vt effectus egrederentur à causis secundis secundum modum ipsarum D Bann part 1. p. 333. f. so as the said effects shall proceed out of them according to their owne manner as a contingent effect shall go forth of a contingent cause and a free effect issue out of a voluntary and free cause This is the summe of that we hold touching predestination and the influence thereof into the actions of men 45 Whereby it is plaine that whatsoeuer we hold against freewill yet do we not lay the bondage thereof on Gods predestination but vpon Adams fall which is the proper roote and foundation whence that impotencie that is in our will ariseth For the decree and prouidence of God began not after Adams fall but before and yet we thinke Adams will was perfectly free which sheweth our opinion to be that freewill though we want it may well stand with Gods predestination because Adam in his innocency had it yet was ruled by Gods predestination And therfore our aduersaries bely vs when they say our opinion touching predestination maketh vs deny freewill for we thinke indeed our will is moued effectually by Gods will in all our actions which being the most effectuall and vniuersall cause of all things qualifieth our will and inclineth it to the action yet doth it not follow hereupon that therefore we thinke our owne will hath no freedome but onely that the freedome thereof dependeth vpon a former freedome which is the freedome of Gods will And if we hold further as some Diuines do that Gods will determineth ours and his decree floweth into all the effects of our will so that we do nothing but as he directeth our will and purpose yet this excludeth not our owne freedome neither maketh God the author of sinne nor implieth any ineuitable necessity in our doing The reason is because God moueth not our will violently nor inforceth it but leaueth our inward motiue within our selues that stirreth it vp which is the act of our vnderstanding whereby we iudge the thing good or euill that we will or nill For in the proceeding of our will first the minde apprehendeth some obiect and offereth it to the will then vpon the full and perfect iudgement of the vnderstanding the liberty of the will concurring or going therewithall the will followeth or refuseth it as the vnderstanding iudgeth it good or bad And so this act or iudgement of our vnderstanding is the roote from whence the free choice of our will ariseth in such manner as whatsoeuer it be that goeth before the act of our will or setteth in with it to incline it as Gods will doth as long as it destroyeth not or inforceth this practicall iudgement of reason the liberty of our will is not taken away And herein standeth the true * Concordia liberi arb cum diuina praedest concord betweene Gods predestination and mans will that the free and immutable counsell of Gods will goeth indeed in order before the operatiō of our will or at least together with it and determineth and circumscribeth it but forsomuch as it neither inforceth our will nor taketh away our iudgement but permitteth it freely to leade and perswade the will it expelleth not our liberty but rather cherisheth and vpholdeth it For wheresoeuer these two concurre freedome from violence and necessitie and the full consent of reason there is the whole and true reason of libertie 46 Neither could I euer perceiue that our aduersaries durst directly gainsay this For it is a conclusiō in their schools that n Gabr. 2 d. 28. notab 2. Anton. Sum. Moral part 1. tit 5. c. 1. §. 8. no second cause can worke without the agency of the first and the first cause floweth into the effect of the second cause more then the second cause it self doth and thereupon God being the first cause of all things the effects of second causes whether they be naturall or whether they proceed from freewill are more subiected to God then to their second causes Yea o Almain Moral tract 1. c. 1. they write that the first cause is not onely the cause of the effect produced by the second cause but also the cause
why the second cause produceth such an effect Shall we from these speeches conclude against them as the Iesuite doth against vs that man therefore hath no freewill and that he cannot do otherwise then he doth and that God is the author of sin And yet no Papist aliue can shew any doctrine or writing of ours that more vehemently insinuateth such conclusions then these speeches do for they ascribe vnto Gods will an absolute soueraignty ouer ours to moue determine and restraine it and the actions thereof which is all that we say and the verie point the Iesuite cauilleth at 47 But it is obiected that if our will be no freer then thus how can it be possible we should do otherwise then we do for God moueth and inclineth it yea determineth and limiteth it I answer that if the saying our will is limited by God giue any occasion of danger our enemies that accuse vs are as guiltie thereof as we For these are their words besides that I haue set downe immediatly before p Occham 1. d. 38. quem sic refert Alm. c. 1. that when our will produceth any act it is not in the power thereof at that instant not to produce it q Almain Moral c. 1. tract 2. That the will can do nothing but God will haue it so to do r Vall. de lib. arb quē refert Chemnit loc tom 1. p. 440. That there is no power at all in our will but Gods will worketh and effecteth all things ſ Dom Ban. 1. part q. 19. art 10. That God determineth our will by his immutable counsell c. t A●im 2 d. 26. q. 1. That all men need the speciall helpe of Gods grace to do any thing that good is This determination of our will by the gouernment of Gods will goeth as far against free-will as any thing that we say and therfore if our doctrine leade men to be carelesse and desperate how will they excuse their owne The meaning therefore is not that God by his prouidence infuseth any constraint into the mind of man to inforce it or any error to seduce it or imposeth any necessitie to binde it but onely that he inclineth and ordereth it to worke freely that which he hath foreseene and determined for his own glorie and besides his preseruing the facultie thereof moueth and applieth it to the obiect and worke that it willeth or nilleth Which maner of inclining I thinke no Papist will deny For Thomas u Contra. Gent l. 3. c. 89. saith Man cannot vse the power of his will but so farre forth as he worketh in the power of God x Ib. c. 91. And all our choise and will is immediatly disposed of God And y Bell de lib. arb l. 3. c. 18. the Iesuites confesse that whether men will or no yet can they not peruert the order of Gods prouidence set downe from all eternitie to do at any time that which God absolutely will not or not to do what he absolutely willeth Which words you see restraine all our libertie to Gods pleasure and exclude not the precedencie of his will to determine ours Yet are not our actions made necessary thereby so that we cannot do otherwise then we do because Gods will is the first mouing cause willing no effect in the creature of absolute necessitie but according to the condition of the second causes and no effect is called necessarie of the first and remote causes but onely of the second and nearer as z Tho. cont Gent. l. 1. c. 86. l. 3 c. 72. Capreol 1. d. 40. art 3. concl 3. the Schoolemen teach in this question 48 By this that I haue said you may perceiue that though our aduersaries take vpon them to be great patrones of free-will yet when the matter cometh to scanning they are forced to subiect it again to Gods prouidence as much as any Protestant doth and their so doing is lyable to the same difficulties that the Iesuite obiecteth against vs. For a De gr lib. arb l. 4 c. 11. the Iesuites say Man is not holden to haue freewill in choosing and consulting because he can do it of his owne strength but because the cooperation of God being allowed he can do it And b Greg Arimin 2. d 26. q. 1. 2. the best learned Schoolemen they haue thinke Our will vnable to any good till God send his speciall grace thereunto Shall I now conclude they debarre all care in consultations and make men desperate because the wil is vnable when grace is wanting and we can do nothing of our selues till God inable vs If I should my conclusion were the very same against them that theirs is against vs that is to say wrongly inferred c Vide Dom. Bannes 22. qu. 10. art 1. pag. ●90 lit c. For though I cannot by mine owne strength rise vp from sinne nor do any good till Gods grace preuent my will yet an earnest care whereby I deliberate is that meanes which the spirit vseth to preuent me and therefore if I will be saued or reclaimed from sinne or confirmed in grace I must admit deliberation as the first motion that God casteth into my minde for the effecting hereof and not stay till I finde some violent and sensible compunctions inforcing me but accept euen that small motion of care and consultation the which to cast away is to reiect Gods offer inuiting vs to our vprising Next though we haue no power to conuert our selues yet all men haue power to vse the outward meanes and libertie to heare the voice of Gods word and spirit inuiting them to consider of their estate which is sufficient to make them vnexcusable if they resist it God worketh some things in vs without vs some things in vs and with vs some things in vs and by vs. In vs without vs good motions which by his spirit he casteth into vs as we lie plunged in sin whereby he awaketh vs and biddeth vs thinke of our vprising In vs and with vs a good will to receiue those motions and not to resist the spirit In vs and by vs all such good workes as the motion of his spirit teacheth vs to do And thus in the greatest bondage of our will we make roome for care and consultation euen in spirituall things otherwise then the most of our aduersaries do in c Whereof reade in the next Digress●● 62. their doctrine of the merit of congruitie whereof d Bav de vi●● imp l. 2. c. vlt. one of themselues saith truly They go not the right way to worke who aspiring to walke after the spirit place the hope of a better reformed life in the commadement of the law and freedome of their owne will 49 Or if the Iesuite according to the common error among the vulgar of his side imagine we make men desperate and carelesse in their actions because we teach no man is elected or reprobated because of his
workes good or euill that God foresaw he should do he is deceiued likewise and the former difficulties return vpon him For the most iudicious and learned in the Church of Rome are of the same minde Touching election there are e Magist 1. d. 41 ibi Occham A●im Camerac Capreol Dur. Mayro alij Bell. de gr lib. arb l. 2. c. 10. Valent. tom 1. p. 364. Tolet. in Rom. 9. few but grant it is of the free mercie of God without any respect to our merits f Tract de Praedest l. 1 p. 38. And Catharinus saith the contrarie is Pelagianisme and deserueth to be hissed at Touching reprobation the opinion is more currant that it should passe vpon the foresight of sinne which God beheld in the wicked But this in reprobation negatiue especially is also crossed by the g Altisio l. 1. c. 9 qu. 1. 2. Arim. Dur. Camerac Capreol vbi supra Tho. contra Gentil l. 3. c. 161. 163. lect 2. in Rom. 9 chiefest Schoolmen that euer writ and h Bell. vbi supra c 16. Valent. tom 1. p. 404. Tolet. vbi supra the Iesuites themselues shrinke from it Ariminensis saith No man is reprobated because of the euill vse of his freewill or finall resistance of grace which God foresaw in him i Part. 1. q 23. art 5. Dominus Bannes confuteth them that hold otherwise and saith that considering the reprobate absolutely there can no cause or reason of their reprobation be giuen on their own behalfe But all the effects of reprobation are ordinated to this one end to shew the iustice of God and his mercie towards the elect Our aduersaries therefore communicating with vs in our doctrine touching the cause of reprobation are as guiltie of making men carelesse thereby as we 50 But I wonder most what should driue this Iesuite to say we make God the authour of sinne I know he might heare and reade the imputation laid vpon vs by k Posseuin bib select l. 8. c. 11. Bellar. de amis grat l. 2. c. 3. the Iesuites but it is very strange any man of vnderstanding should not discerne the foolery For I chalenge any man that listeth to trie it let him shew if he can that the Church of England holdeth any more touching this matter then the Papists themselues haue expresly written Occham saith l 2. q. 5. lit k. God is immediatly the first cause of all things produced by the second causes But of things euill he is the mediate cause in that he produceth and preserueth the creature that is the mediate cause of euill And m 3. q. 12. lit yy againe if we speake of the sinnes of commission not onely the will of the creature is the efficient cause of euery such act but euen God himselfe who immediatly causeth euery act And if you reply that then God should sinne by causing an act of such deformitie as the will of the creature sinnes when it causeth such an act I answer that God is debter to no man and therefore he is bound neither to cause that act nor the contrary nor yet not to cause it but the will of the creature by Gods law is bound not to cause the act and so consequently sinnes by doing it To the very same effect writeth n 2. d. 34. q. 1. art 3. Gregorius Ariminensis o Pag. 126. ad 7. addeth further that some Doctors of his time affirmed that albeit the sinfull act were of God yet the sinne was not which saying saith he may haue a good sence not by conceiuing the deformitie to be any thing distinct from the act which is not caused of God but vnderstanding that although the sinfull act be of God yet as it is sinfull it is not of God who doth nothing against that which right reason iudgeth should be done Cardinall Cameracensis p 1. q. 13. art 1. pag. 193. saith Many solemne Doctors confesse that God is the cause of sinne and that he can cause and will sinne Medina q Bartol Med. in 1 2 q 93. art 6. pag. 496. saith A sinner when he sinneth doth against the will and law of God in one sence and in another not He doth indeed against his signified will and against his precepts and prohibitions which by a figuratiue speech are called his will but against the will of his good pleasure he doth not nor against the eff●ctuall ordination of God In the same manner r Mayr 2 d. 43. q 1. Duran 2. d. 37. q. 1 1. d. 46. q 2. Altisio● l. 2. p. 79. Feli● in decal pag. 69 T●o in 9. Rom. write others and such as are busiest in accusing Luther and Caluin touching this point yet by strength of argument and euidence of the Scriptures are driuen to say ſ Bann 1. part q. 49. art 2. That no sinne falleth out beside the will and intention of God t Bell. de amiss grat l 2. c. 13. but that by a figure he commandeth it and exciteth men vnto it as a huntsman setteth the dog vpon a hare by letting go the slip that held the dogge God therefore not onely permitteth the wicked to do many euils neither doth he onely forsake the godly that they may be constrained to suffer the things done against them by the wicked but he also ouerseeth their euill wils and ruleth and gouerneth them and boweth and bendeth them by working inuisibly in them And not onely inclineth euill wils to one euill rather then another by permitting them to be caried into one euill and not permitting them to be caried into another but also positiuely he bendeth them by inclining them to one euill and turning them from another occasionally and morally c. Let our aduersaries looke well into these speeches and they shall finde we say in effect no more and if they will expound ours as gently as they do their owne there will appeare no difference 51 For we hold first in generall that u Ps 5.4 Habb 1.13 ●●h 3 5. Zach 8.17 eccl 7 31. lac 1.13 God is not the author of sinne but the diuell and mans owne corrupt will the contrary whereof we defy as blasphemy Next more particularly we beleeue that God willeth nothing that is formally sin as he willeth that which is good but hateth it ra●her whence it followeth that he inspireth it into no man neither doth he create any corruption in our will which was not there before but forbiddeth it absolutely x Esa 30.21 Rom. 2.15 within vs by the light of his Spirit y Deut. 27.26 without vs by the commandement and the first entrance of sinne into the world and the continuance of it in the world was by the voluntary action of mans will corrupting it selfe God infusing no euill into it That which he doth about and concerning sinne are three actions First as the vniuersall cause of all things z Act. 17.28 he sustaineth