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cause_n action_n author_n sin_n 1,559 5 5.5430 4 false
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ID Title Author Corrected Date of Publication (TCP Date of Publication) STC Words Pages
A49123 Mr. Hales's treatise of schism examined and censured by Thomas Long ... ; to which are added, Mr. Baxter's arguments for conformity, wherein the most material passages of the treatise of schism are answered. Long, Thomas, 1621-1707.; Baxter, Richard, 1615-1691. Mr. Baxter's arguments for conformity against separation. 1678 (1678) Wing L2974; ESTC R10056 119,450 354

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that_o church_n as_o no_o church_n yet_o must_v we_o not_o commit_v that_o sin_n but_o patient_o suffer_v they_o to_o exclude_v we_o from_o their_o communion_n of_o the_o doctrine_n of_o the_o church_n of_o england_n as_o for_o the_o doctrine_n of_o the_o church_n of_o england_n 6._o the_o bishop_n and_o their_o follower_n from_o the_o first_o reformation_n begin_v by_o king_n edward_n the_o six_o be_v sound_a in_o doctrine_n adhere_v to_o the_o augustane_n method_n express_v now_o in_o the_o article_n and_o homily_n they_o differ_v not_o in_o any_o considerable_a point_n from_o those_o who_o they_o call_v puritan_n but_o it_o be_v in_o the_o form_n of_o government_n liturgy_n and_o ceremony_n that_o the_o difference_n lay_v the_o independent_o as_o well_o as_o the_o presbyterian_o offer_v to_o subscribe_v the_o thirty-nine_o article_n as_o distinct_a from_o prelacy_n and_o ceremony_n 64._o and_o when_o i_o be_v in_o the_o country_n i_o know_v not_o of_o one_o minister_n to_o ten_o that_o be_v now_o silence_v that_o be_v not_o in_o the_o main_a of_o the_o same_o principle_n with_o myself_o mr._n baxter_n reason_n for_o obedience_n in_o lawful_a thing_n page_n 483._o of_o his_o five_o disputation_n §_o 1._o lest_o man_n that_o be_v apt_a to_o run_v from_o one_o extreme_a into_o another_o shall_v make_v a_o ill_a use_n of_o that_o which_o i_o have_v before_o write_v i_o shall_v here_o annex_v some_o reason_n to_o persuade_v man_n to_o just_a obedience_n and_o preserve_v they_o from_o any_o sinful_a nonconformity_n to_o the_o command_n of_o their_o governor_n and_o the_o evil_a effect_n that_o be_v like_a to_o follow_v thereupon_o §_o 2._o but_o first_o i_o will_v lay_v together_o some_o proposition_n for_o decision_n of_o the_o controversy_n how_o far_o we_o be_v bind_v to_o obey_v man_n precept_n about_o religion_n especial_o in_o case_n we_o doubt_v of_o the_o lawfulness_n of_o obey_v they_o and_o so_o can_v obey_v they_o in_o faith_n §_o 3._o brief_o 1._o we_o must_v obey_v both_o magistrate_n and_o pastor_n in_o all_o thing_n lawful_a which_o belong_v to_o their_o office_n to_o command_v 2._o it_o belong_v not_o to_o their_o office_n to_o make_v god_n a_o new_a worship_n but_o to_o command_v the_o mode_n and_o circumstance_n of_o worship_n belong_v to_o their_o office_n for_o guide_v they_o wherein_o god_n have_v give_v they_o general_a rule_n 3._o we_o must_v not_o take_v the_o lawful_a command_n of_o our_o governor_n to_o be_v unlawful_a 4._o if_o we_o do_v through_o weakness_n or_o perverseness_n take_v lawful_a thing_n to_o be_v unlawful_a that_o will_v not_o excuse_v we_o in_o our_o disobedience_n our_o error_n be_v our_o sin_n and_o one_o sin_n will_v not_o excuse_v another_o sin_n even_o as_o on_o the_o other_o side_n if_o we_o judge_v thing_n unlawful_a to_o be_v lawful_a that_o will_v not_o excuse_v we_o for_o our_o disobedience_n to_o god_n in_o obey_v man_n 5._o as_o i_o have_v before_o show_v many_o thing_n that_o be_v miscommand_v must_v be_v obey_v 6._o as_o a_o erroneous_a judgement_n will_v not_o excuse_v we_o from_o obedience_n to_o our_o governor_n so_o much_o less_o will_v a_o doubtfulness_n excuse_v we_o 7._o as_o such_o a_o doubt_v err_a judgement_n can_v obey_v in_o plenary_a faith_n so_o much_o less_o can_v he_o disobey_v in_o faith_n for_o it_o be_v a_o know_a command_n of_o god_n that_o we_o obey_v they_o that_o have_v the_o rule_n over_o we_o but_o they_o have_v no_o word_n of_o god_n against_o the_o act_n of_o obedience_n now_o in_o question_n it_o be_v their_o own_o err_a judgement_n that_o entangle_v they_o in_o a_o necessity_n of_o sin_v till_o it_o be_v change_v 7._o in_o doubtful_a case_n it_o be_v our_o duty_n to_o use_v god_n mean_n for_o our_o information_n and_o one_o mean_n be_v to_o consult_v with_o our_o teacher_n and_o hear_v their_o word_n with_o teachableness_n and_o meekness_n 8._o if_o upon_o advise_v with_o they_o we_o remain_v in_o doubt_n about_o the_o lawfulness_n of_o some_o circumstance_n of_o order_n if_o it_o be_v such_o as_o may_v be_v dispense_v with_o they_o shall_v dispense_v with_o we_o if_o it_o may_v not_o be_v dispense_v with_o without_o a_o great_a injury_n to_o the_o church_n or_o cause_n of_o god_n than_o our_o dispensation_n will_v countervail_v then_o be_v it_o our_o duty_n to_o obey_v our_o teacher_n notwithstanding_o such_o doubt_n for_o it_o be_v their_o office_n to_o teach_v we_o it_o must_v be_v our_o duty_n to_o believe_v they_o with_o a_o humane_a faith_n in_o case_n where_o we_o have_v no_o evidence_n to_o the_o contrary_a ☞_o and_o the_o duty_n of_o obey_v they_o be_v certain_a and_o the_o sinfulness_n of_o the_o thing_n command_v be_v uncertain_a &_o unknown_a and_o only_o suspect_v we_o must_v go_v on_o the_o sure_a side_n 9_o yet_o must_v we_o in_o great_a and_o doubtful_a case_n not_o take_v up_o with_o the_o suspect_a judgement_n of_o a_o single_a pastor_n but_o apply_v ourselves_o to_o the_o unanimous_a pastor_n of_o other_o church_n 10._o ☞_o christian_n shall_v not_o be_v overbusy_a in_o pry_v into_o the_o work_n of_o their_o governor_n nor_o too_o forward_o to_o suspect_v their_o determination_n but_o when_o they_o know_v that_o it_o be_v their_o ruler_n work_v to_o guide_v they_o by_o determine_v of_o due_a circumstance_n of_o worship_n they_o shall_v without_o causeless_a scruple_n ready_o obey_v till_o they_o see_v just_a reason_n to_o stop_v they_o in_o their_o obedience_n they_o must_v not_o go_v out_o of_o their_o own_o place_n to_o search_v into_o the_o action_n of_o another_o man_n office_n to_o trouble_v themselves_o without_o any_o cause_n §_o 4._o and_o now_o i_o entreat_v all_o humble_a christian_n ready_o to_o obey_v both_o magistrate_n and_o pastor_n in_o all_o lawful_a thing_n and_o to_o consider_v to_o that_o end_n of_o these_o reason_n follow_v reas_n 1._o if_o you_o will_v not_o obey_v in_o lawful_a thing_n you_o deny_v authority_n or_o overthrow_v government_n itself_o which_o be_v a_o great_a ordinance_n of_o god_n establish_v in_o the_o five_o commandment_n with_o promise_n and_o as_o that_o commandment_n respect_v society_n and_o common_a good_a be_v great_a than_o the_o follow_a command_n as_o they_o respect_v the_o private_a good_a of_o our_o neighbour_n or_o be_v but_o particular_a mean_n to_o that_o public_a good_a who_o foundation_n be_v lay_v in_o the_o five_o commandment_n so_o according_o the_o sin_n against_o this_o five_o commandment_n must_v be_v great_a than_o that_o against_o the_o rest_n §_o 5._o reas_n 2._o in_o disobey_v the_o lawful_a command_n of_o our_o superior_n we_o disobey_v christ_n who_o rule_v by_o they_o as_o his_o officer_n even_o as_o the_o disobey_v a_o justice_n of_o peace_n or_o judge_n be_v a_o disobey_v of_o the_o sovereign_a power_n yea_o in_o some_o case_n when_o their_o sentence_n be_v unjust_a some_o of_o the_o ancient_a doctor_n think_v that_o the_o five_o commandment_n be_v the_o last_o of_o the_o first_o table_n of_o the_o decalogue_n and_o that_o the_o honour_v of_o governor_n be_v part_n of_o our_o honour_n to_o god_n they_o be_v mention_v there_o as_o his_o officer_n with_o who_o he_o himself_o be_v honour_v or_o dishonour_v obey_v or_o disobey_v for_o it_o be_v god_n authority_n that_o the_o magistrate_n parent_n and_o pastor_n be_v endue_v with_o and_o empower_v by_o to_o rule_v those_o that_o be_v put_v under_o they_o §_o 6._o reas_n 3._o what_o confusion_n will_v be_v bring_v into_o the_o church_n if_o pastor_n be_v not_o obey_v in_o thing_n lawful_a for_o instance_n if_o the_o pastor_n appoint_v the_o congregation_n to_o assemble_v at_o one_o hour_n and_o the_o people_n will_v scruple_n the_o time_n and_o say_v it_o be_v unlawful_a and_o so_o will_v choose_v some_o of_o they_o one_o time_n and_o some_o another_o what_o disorder_n will_v here_o be_v and_o worse_o if_o the_o pastor_n appoint_v a_o place_n of_o worship_n and_o any_o of_o the_o people_n scruple_n obey_v they_o and_o will_v come_v to_o another_o place_n what_o confusion_n will_v here_o be_v people_z be_v many_o and_o the_o pastor_n be_v few_o and_o therefore_o there_o may_v be_v some_o unity_n if_o the_o people_n be_v rule_v by_o the_o pastor_n but_o there_o can_v be_v none_o if_o the_o pastor_n must_v be_v rule_v by_o the_o people_n for_o the_o people_n will_v not_o agree_v among_o themselves_o and_o therefore_o if_o we_o obey_v one_o part_n of_o they_o we_o must_v disobey_v and_o displease_v the_o rest_n and_o their_o ignorance_n make_v they_o unfit_a to_o rule_v §_o 7._o reas_n 4._o moreover_o disobedience_n in_o matter_n of_o circumstance_n will_v exclude_v and_o overthrow_v the_o substance_n of_o the_o worship_n itself_o god_n command_v we_o to_o pray_v if_o one_o part_n of_o the_o church_n will_v not_o join_v with_o a_o stint_a form_n of_o
mr._n hildersham_n mr._n r._n rogers_n and_o such_o old_a nonconformist_n be_v in_o so_o good_a esteem_n among_o good_a people_n where_o they_o will_v read_v they_o urge_v the_o people_n not_o only_o against_o separation_n but_o to_o come_v to_o the_o very_a beginning_n of_o the_o public_a worship_n and_o prefer_v it_o before_o their_o private_a duty_n when_o i_o think_v what_o holy_a learned_a man_n the_o old_a conformist_n be_v 57_o my_o heart_n rise_v against_o the_o thought_n of_o separate_n from_o they_o if_o i_o have_v come_v to_o their_o church_n when_o they_o use_v the_o common_a prayer_n and_o administer_v the_o sacrament_n can_v i_o have_v depart_v and_o say_v it_o be_v not_o lawful_a for_o any_o christian_a here_o to_o communicate_v with_o you_o what!_o to_o such_o man_n as_o mr._n bolton_n whateley_n fenner_n dent_n crook_n dike_n stock_n smith_n dr._n preston_n sibbs_n stoughton_n taylor_n and_o abundance_n other_o such_o yea_o such_o as_o bishop_n jewel_n grindal_n hall_n potter_n davenant_n carleton_n etc._n etc._n dr._n field_n smith_n jo._n white_a willet_n etc._n etc._n yea_o and_o the_o martyr_n too_o as_o cranmer_n ridley_n hooper_n himself_o farrar_n bradford_n fillpot_n sanders_n etc._n etc._n can_v i_o separate_v from_o all_o these_o on_o the_o reason_n now_o in_o question_n yea_o calvin_n himself_o and_o the_o church_n of_o his_o way_n be_v all_o separate_v from_o by_o the_o separatist_n of_o their_o time_n and_o though_o ministerial_a conformity_n be_v now_o much_o alter_v 13._o as_o to_o engagement_n many_o of_o the_o assembly_n of_o divine_n that_o be_v yet_o live_v do_v conform_v again_o nor_o will_v i_o shun_v communion_n with_o the_o reverend_a member_n of_o that_o assembly_n twiss_n gataker_n whitaker_n and_o the_o rest_n if_o again_o they_o use_v the_o liturgy_n among_o we_o and_o if_o the_o old_a conformist_n such_o as_o bolton_n etc._n etc._n be_v alive_a and_o use_v now_o the_o same_o liturgy_n and_o ceremony_n as_o they_o do_v then_o which_o be_v worse_o than_o now_o i_o can_v not_o think_v their_o communion_n in_o prayer_n and_o sacrament_n unlawful_a nor_o censure_v that_o man_n as_o injurious_a to_o the_o church_n who_o shall_v write_v to_o persuade_v other_o not_o to_o separate_v from_o they_o read_v over_o some_o of_o the_o old_a nonconformist_n book_n against_o separation_n 89._o as_o mr._n jacob_n the_o independent_a against_o johnson_n and_o mr._n bradshaw_n and_o mr._n gataker_n defence_n against_o cann_n mr._n gifford_n darrell_n paget_n etc._n etc._n and_o full_a of_o all_o at_o the_o begin_n of_o our_o trouble_n mr._n john_n ball_n in_o three_o book_n in_o these_o you_o will_v find_v the_o same_o objection_n answer_v or_o more_o and_o great_a and_o i_o profess_v my_o judgement_n that_o our_o ordinary_a boaster_n that_o think_v they_o know_v more_o in_o this_o controversy_n than_o the_o old_a nonconformist_n do_v as_o far_o as_o i_o be_o able_a to_o discern_v be_v as_o far_o below_o they_o almost_o as_o they_o be_v below_o either_o chamier_n sadeel_v whitaker_n or_o such_o other_o in_o deal_v with_o a_o papist_n objection_n answer_v but_o what_o if_o there_o be_v gross_a and_o scandalous_a sinner_n be_v member_n of_o the_o church_n 747._o answ_n if_o you_o be_v want_v in_o your_o duty_n to_o reform_v it_o it_o be_v your_o sin_n but_o if_o bare_a presence_n make_v their_o sin_n to_o be_v we_o it_o will_v also_o make_v all_o the_o sin_n of_o the_o assembly_n we_o but_o what_o if_o they_o be_v sin_n commit_v in_o the_o open_a assembly_n even_o by_o the_o minister_n himself_o in_o his_o pray_n preach_v and_o other_o administration_n answ_n 1._o a_o minister_n personal_a fault_n may_v damn_v himself_o and_o must_v be_v matter_n of_o lamentation_n to_o the_o church_n who_o ought_v to_o do_v their_o best_a to_o reform_v they_o or_o get_v better_o by_o any_o lawful_a mean_n but_o in_o case_n they_o can_v his_o sin_n be_v none_o of_o they_o nor_o do_v it_o make_v his_o administration_n null_n or_o ineffectual_a nor_o will_v it_o allow_v you_o to_o separate_v from_o the_o worship_n which_o he_o administer_v you_o may_v not_o separate_v from_o he_o unless_o you_o can_v prove_v he_o or_o his_o ministry_n utter_o intolerable_a by_o such_o fault_n as_o these_o 1._o a_o utter_a insufficiency_n in_o knowledge_n or_o utterance_n for_o the_o necessary_a part_n of_o the_o ministerial_a work_n as_o if_o he_o be_v not_o able_a to_o teach_v the_o necessary_a point_n of_o christian_a religion_n nor_o to_o administer_v the_o sacrament_n and_o other_o part_n of_o public_a worship_n 2._o if_o he_o set_v himself_o to_o oppose_v the_o end_n of_o his_o ministry_n and_o preach_v down_o godliness_n or_o any_o part_n of_o it_o that_o be_v necessary_a to_o salvation_n or_o be_v a_o preacher_n of_o heresy_n preach_v up_o any_o damn_v error_n or_o preach_v down_o any_o necessary_a save_v truth_n 3._o if_o he_o so_o deprave_v the_o public_a worship_n as_o to_o destroy_v the_o substance_n of_o it_o as_o in_o put_v up_o blasphemy_n for_o prayer_n or_o praise_n or_o commit_v idolatry_n or_o set_v up_o new_a sacrament_n or_o impose_v any_o actual_a sin_n on_o the_o people_n but_o there_o be_v other_o ministerial_a fault_n 606._o which_o warrant_v not_o our_o separation_n as_o 1._o some_o tolerable_a error_n of_o judgement_n or_o envy_n and_o pettish_a opposition_n to_o other_o phil._n 1._o 15._o 2._o it_o be_v not_o unlawful_a to_o join_v with_o a_o minister_n that_o have_v many_o defect_n in_o his_o ministration_n or_o manner_n of_o worship_n as_o if_o he_o preach_v with_o some_o ignorance_n disorder_n unfit_a expression_n or_o gesture_n and_o the_o like_a in_o prayer_n and_o sacrament_n 3._o it_o be_v not_o unlawful_a to_o join_v with_o a_o minister_n that_o have_v some_o material_a error_n or_o untruth_n in_o preach_v or_o pray_v so_o be_v it_o we_o be_v not_o call_v to_o approve_v it_o and_o so_o it_o be_v not_o pernicious_a and_o destructive_a to_o the_o end_n of_o his_o ministry_n if_o we_o run_v away_o from_o all_o that_o vent_v any_o untruth_n or_o mistake_n in_o public_a or_o private_a worship_n we_o shall_v scarce_o know_v what_o church_n or_o person_n we_o may_v hold_v communion_n with_o for_o 1._o a_o small_a sin_n may_v no_o more_o be_v do_v or_o own_v than_o a_o great_a 2._o and_o then_o another_o man_n weakness_n may_v disoblige_v i_o and_o discharge_v i_o from_o my_o duty_n of_o subscription_n with_o assent_n and_o consent_n particular_o concern_v infant_n baptize_v q._n 152._o be_v it_o lawful_a to_o subscribe_v or_o profess_v full_a assent_n and_o consent_n to_o any_o religious_a book_n 902._o beside_o the_o bible_n see_v all_o be_v fallible_a 3._o answ_n it_o be_v lawful_a to_o profess_v or_o subscribe_v our_o assent_n and_o consent_n to_o any_o humane_a writing_n which_o we_o judge_v to_o be_v true_a and_o good_a according_a to_o the_o measure_n of_o its_o truth_n and_o goodness_n as_o if_o church-confession_n that_o be_v sound_a be_v offer_v we_o for_o our_o consent_n we_o may_v say_v or_o subscribe_v i_o hold_v all_o the_o doctrine_n in_o this_o book_n to_o be_v true_a and_o good_a q._n 35._o be_v it_o certain_a by_o the_o word_n of_o god_n 807._o that_o all_o infant_n baptize_v and_o die_v before_o actual_a sin_n be_v undoubted_o save_v answ_n i_o think_v that_o all_o the_o child_n of_o true_a christian_n do_v by_o baptism_n receive_v a_o public_a investiture_n 810._o by_o god_n appointment_n into_o a_o state_n of_o remission_n adoption_n and_o right_a to_o salvation_n at_o present_a send_v though_o i_o dare_v not_o say_v i_o be_o undoubted_o certain_a of_o it_o but_o i_o say_v as_o the_o synod_n of_o dort_n art_n 1._o that_o believe_v parent_n have_v no_o cause_n to_o doubt_v of_o the_o salvation_n of_o their_o child_n that_o die_v in_o infancy_n before_o they_o commit_v actual_a sin_n that_o be_v not_o to_o trouble_v themselves_o with_o fear_n about_o it_o for_o if_o such_o infant_n be_v admit_v to_o outward_a privilege_n only_o ibid._n then_o which_o be_v my_o 2d_o reason_n we_o have_v no_o promise_n or_o certainty_n or_o ground_n of_o faith_n for_o the_o pardon_n and_o salvation_n of_o any_o individual_a infant_n in_o the_o world_n and_o if_o there_o be_v no_o promise_n there_o be_v no_o faith_n of_o it_o nor_o no_o baptism_n to_o seal_v it_o and_o so_o we_o make_v antipaedobaptism_n unavoidable_a whereas_o some_o misinterpret_v the_o word_n of_o the_o old_a rubric_n of_o confirmation_n in_o the_o english_a liturgy_n 812._o as_o if_o it_o speak_v of_o all_o that_o be_v baptize_v whether_o they_o have_v right_a or_o not_o the_o word_n themselves_o may_v serve_v to_o rectify_v that_o mistake_n and_o that_o no_o man_n shall_v think_v any_o detriment_n shall_v come_v to_o child_n by_o defer_v of_o their_o confirmation_n he_o shall_v know_v for_o truth_n that_o it_o be_v