the Subject and yet they go on hand in hand and long may they do so long may they go in that Agreement and Harmony which they should have done hitherto and I trust shall be to the last not rising one above another in any kind but kept in their own wonted Channels For if they rise above these heights the one or the other they tear the Banks and overflow the fair Meads equally on one side and other And therefore I do and did allow and ever shall for my part desire they may be kept at that Agreement and perfect Harmony one with another that they may each watch for and not any way watch over the other And therefore this being a Care of the Prerogative as long as it goes not against the Common Law of the Land it is the Law of the Land and binds as long as it transgresses not the Fundamental Law of the Land being made provisionally for preventing of a Temporary Mischief before an Act of Parliament can give a Remedy And this Condition must be implyed That it must be binding provided it be according to the Law of the Land I instance in that Exception that King Iames would take when a man saies he will do a thing as far as he may with Conscience and Honour because in Persons of Conscience and Honour those words are always implied That the Wisdom of our Ancestors hath prevented this Mischief That for a mis-word a Peer of England should lose his Priviledge being as great as any Subjects that live under a King that is not a free Prince of the Empire And the Preamble of a Statute in Queen Elizabeths time the very bent whereof is to take away the dawning of words without any further Act which Preamble was read to their Lordships And so I conclude the words were unwisely spoken because they may be brought to a hard sense but not Criminal for none of them swear any thing done in breach of the Law I except against my Lord Kilmallock's swearing Sir George Ratcliffe to be my Eccho as if he knew my thoughts and against Mr. Hoy as a party concerned in Interest though not in name in a Suit that is or will be brought against me before your Lordships come to the end of the Charge I confess Mr. Waldron's Testimony makes me stagger being the only person could make me believe I said the words I except against Sir Pierce Crosbies Testimony having been formerly Sentenced in Star-Chamber and I know what Sir Pierce Crosby swore there and that I never Communed with him so far as to have such a Discourse as is mentioned in all my life To the Suit in the Castle-Chamber against the Earl of Corke on pretence of breaking an Order of Council-Table I conceive it had relation to an Order made in King Iames his time 20. March 11 Iac. which I desire may be read being now produced as also the Information there exhibited that so I may justifie my Answer in that point of it That the Suit was not upon that Act alone but for other matters also but that was admitted by the Committee And so the reading of them was waved To that Point of Mr. Waldron's Testimony touching the offering of a Lease to the Person concerned rendring the half value I conceive this Circumstance qualifies the words it being according to Law To demonstrate which the Statue was read That no Lease shall be granted upon which less is reserved to the Lessor during 21 years then the moiety of the Lands value And so his Lordship concluded his Defence and the Manager made Reply in substance as followeth That this Article proves my Lord of Strafford's Intention to subvert the Laws That the long time spent in maintaining the Jurisdiction of the Council-Board is the least part of the Article That though these words singly be admitted not to be Treason yet several words and actions must prove the general Charge of his endeavouring to subvert the Laws To the several Provisoes in that Act of Parliament mentioned by my Lord of Strafford concerning words we observe That the words Charged are only matter of Evidence to his general Intention of subverting the Laws And whereas he says they are not charged in time the Commons bring this as done long ago and continuing to this day if he were not prevented so they take him Flagrante Crimine To the Practise of the Council-Table before his time his Witnesses have proved their proceedings in Cases of the Church and Plantations But in other Cases we deny it for it is contrary to Law That admitting the extent given by the Instructions to Church-Causes though the Proclamation hath no such exception Yet it comes not to the Case of my Lord of Cork who claimed the thing in question as a Lay-Impropriation derived to the Crown by the Statute of Dissolution That my Lord of Strafford makes this Government Arbitrary in threatening the Earl of Cork to lay him by the heels if he went to Law whereas the Order gave him liberty That the Original Order in my Lord of Corke's Cause was drawn with these words put out concerning Gwyn's giving Security and that justifies my Lord of Cork's Testimony That notwithstanding my Lord of Strafford's justification of his words That neither Law nor Lawyers should question his Orders This is to assume an Arbitrary Power for if his Orders be legal the Law must justifie them if not question them That the words Of making an Act of State equal to an Act of Parliament are proved by my Lord of Corke and those spoken are a confirmation of those before and expresly within the Article The latter point thereof recites that he spake the words at other times This altogether justifie my Lord of Corke's Testimony though a single Witness and prove that my Lord of Strafford hath made it a habit to speak such words That they have one Witness more and that is my Lord of Strafford himself who says He never spake any thing but truth and said That he would make an Act of State equal to an Act of Parliament We desire that for the taking off the Aspersion cast on Sir Pierce Crosby my Lord of Castlehaven may be examined touching the words alledged to be spoken in his presence The Earl of Castlehaven being sworn and examined touching the said words Answered That it is a business past long ago and but a Table-discourse and he took not much notice of the Circumstances But as he remembers there fell a difference between my Lord of Strafford and Sir Pierce Crosby within three or four months after my Lords coming over and that as well as he can remember my Lord of Strafford did say That an Act of State was equal to an Act of Parliament but he remembers not the occasion That the Justice of the Order in my Lord of Corke's Cause is not material or whether within the Jurisdiction of the Council-Table the Charge being That upon such
according to the Power of former Deputies yet not to meddle with Titles of Free-hold except in Cases of Equity but to refer Title of Free-hold to its proper Judicature and not to hear Causes where there is Priority in other Courts unless in case of Appeal for lack of Justice after due Obedience Power likewise the said Rules observed to call before him any person complained of and therein to make such Order and Decree as shall stand with Justice and to cause the same to be put in Execution Dated October 5. 9 Car. He then offered the first Decree in the Cause to be read that had formerly been read having relation to this bearing date May 23. 1636. And the same was read being Signed Wentworth Gerard Lowther c. Whence his Lordship observed That the Order was made for Relief of a poor man where my Lord of Mountnorris had by Violence and extream hard pressure possest himself of Lands worth 200 l. a year never paying out of his Purse above 30 l. the rest arising on a Letter procured for Sawing Mills and by interest at above 20 in the hundred wherein his Lordship had the Assistance of two Reverend and Learned Judges the Chancellor that now is and Sir Gerard Lowther That the Decree is in every part just and equitable and if he had not given relief he had been justly censured That the party is now in Town and means to complain and Sue for 600 l. more than he is yet allowed The Committee declared they insist not on the merit of the Cause as not being material And so my Lord of Strafford observed That he stands justified by the Kings Letter which makes things differ from what they did formerly and shew that the Power was there before and is now restored His Lordship further added that his Practice in exercising Jurisdiction was conformable to that Letter viz. That he medled not with Title of Land triable at Law nor with Causes which had priority of Suit in other Courts That he referred the business of the Provincial Courts to these Courts and many businesses to the Judges of Assize and none determined by him but upon full Hearing and Assistance of the Judges And whereas it is said my Lord Mountnorris was kept in Prison by reason of not Suing out the Pardon on his Sentence pronounced by the Council of War I will make it appear it was for Contempts in refusing to answer a Bill Exhibited against him on the Kings behalf in the Castle-Chamber Mr. Slingsby being asked touching that point Answered That he did constantly wait on my Lord to the Castle-Chamber and there heard the Information of the Kings Attorney against my Lord Mountnorris read and my Lord Mountnorris was called to Answer it several times and was committed to Prison for not Answering it but he cannot precisely speak to the time but he thinks he was left in Prison upon that till my Lords going into England Sir Adam Loftus asked touching the same point did first make his humble Suit that he might not be Examined in any Cause concerning my Lord Mountnorris for some reasons inducing him thereunto Which my Lord of Strafford said was because Sir Adam succeeded my Lord Mountnorris in the place of Vice-Treasurer and being required if that were all to speak notwithstanding He Answered That he conceives he was Committed for not answering the Information but the precise day of his Commitment and the time how long he cannot well remember Being asked whether he was not brought before the Deputy a day or two before he came away and refused to Answer and was thereupon Committed He Answered That it was true Being asked on the Managers motion whether he was not Committed on the old Sentence and remained in Prison on that He Answered That he doth not know If I had time to produce the Orders of the Castle-Chamber I could make it appear when my Lord Mountnorris was Committed and how long he continued so but he was Committed for that Contempt and remained Committed six Months I think before he would Answer which I would not speak if it were not true The Lord Dillon called and asked to the same purpose He Answered That the Judges of the Castle-Chamber are by Commission and that he is not of that Commission That the Deputy or Chief Governour calls by way of Assistance such as he pleases That he heard at Council-Board my Lord Mountnorris was Committed for a Contempt in not answering in the Star-Chamber but when it began or how long he knows not In Execution of this Jurisdiction I had no private advantage to my self nothing but trouble was gained by it no new thing was done but such as was formerly by all the Chief Governours there and such as I had special Warrant for from His Majesty I have observed the Rules that guide others in Chancery and other Courts of Equity and the Judges in their Circuits Therefore it can be no Subversion of the Laws for the same thing done by others hath been Legally done it differs only in respect of place being before my self and so cannot be Treason And though it might be Illegal here yet it is according to the Laws and Customs of Ireland by which I am to be judged for all things there done And the same is done by the Presidents of the North and of Wales who did familiarly receive Petitions from Poor people that cannot seek remedy by a Legal course and yet it is not Treason in England And it cannot sink into my understanding how the enlargement of a Jurisdiction should be strained to High Treason specially being warranted by ancient Practice and modern Authority being only according to the nature of a Court of Requests and not entrenching on the Jurisdiction of Law Courts And so I hope this will never rise up in Judgment against me as Treason either in it self or by way of Application The Manager began his Reply in substance as followeth Whereas my Lord of Strafford says This is not Treason this is the burden of his Song But this is one of the particulars that prove his design to subvert the fundamental Laws of both Kingdoms He will not acknowledge a cumulative Treason he must have a Treason over Shooes and Boots yet if he will look on it all together he shall see the horridness of it and it will prove as great a Treason as ever was presented to a House of Parliament The Manager opened the Article and said they dispute not whether if it had been done in Chancery or other Courts it had been well done but it is done by him without Rule of Law and hereupon he hath drawn to himself an Arbitrary Power Whereas my Lord of Strafford to take from himself the Act of Parliament 28 H. 6. enjoyning That Causes should be referred to the proper Courts urged the last words Saving the Kings Prerogative We do observe That when he is Charged with an Exorbitant proceeding
to the destruction of the Law he flies to the Kings Prerogative for shelter That to mention the Kings Prerogative in the face of the Peers of the Realm and in presence of all the Commons when he is charged with an Exorbitant proceeding to the Subversion of the Laws is but to cast a Scandal upon the Kings Prerogative and to make it have a worse relish whereas the Law supports the Kings Prerogative and the Subject supports it When his Answer is charged not to be according to Truth he casts a Gloss upon it from the easiness of his being mistaken whereas when he is able to justifie it he glories in it as that whereto he must stand or fall That the Letters Patents which my Lord of Strafford produces rise in Judgment against him for the King hath trusted him ad custodiendas leges Regni and therefore if he hath broken through them he hath broken his Trust. He says It is strange the exceeding of Jurisdiction should be laid to his charge as Treason He is charged with the Subverting of the Law and that 's more than the Exceeding of a Power He read the Instructions to warrant his Act and by these the Commons desire to be judged whether they do not in the Negative say there shall be no such Proceeding before the Deputy and yet he will imply there have been proceedings to the contrary which we cannot see He justifies his Proceedings by former Deputies and hath produced Henry Dillon who hath seen several Proceedings in Sir Henry Bagnalls time and others where Orders have been made by the Deputy alone but the Orders themselves are not brought whereas if they were looked on and consideration had what results out of them their Lordships would not have suffered them to be read without Attestation that they were true Copies But now whether they be entred or no or what other Proceedings there were the Witness doth not know and therefore they are no Evidence nor in truth ought to be offered And the Witness being asked what the Orders were he says one was a Reference and whether Witnesses were examined he says he doth not know He produces my Lord Dillon and we offer to be adjudged by him for he says He knew not any Deputy before my Lord of Strafford that hath intermeddled with matters of Land except in Plantation and Church Causes and this Order is charged to be made by him alone He pretends this is a Court and a Prerogative of the Sword We know not whether my Lord of Strafford intends to keep it by force but whereas he produceth a Commission for giving Oath to the Clerk of the Council this Commission needed not if it were a Court for the Court it self would give an Oath and whereas he mentions it to be in the nature of the Court of Requests we would gladly know whether there be not Authority in the Judge to give an Oath He produces several Orders in my Lord of Faulkland's time The first is expresly for Plantation Lands and there was no determination in Equity or otherwise The second Order he produced in my Lord Faulkland's time was a meer Green-cloth Case and nothing to this purpose The third Order produced was in a business recommended from England to my Lord of Faulkland and such Causes as are out of the Instructions excepted The Order in the Lord of Corke's time was but an Order of Reference to the Archbishop and a Reference is no Determination a private person may do as much So that we observe nothing hath been offered to prove that a Deputy alone hath determined matter of Possession and in this we rest with confidence That none ever did before himself and shall therefore desire the Examination of some Privy-Counsellors He produced a Letter from His Majesty to proceed in such Causes But if by Law it ought not to be then a Letter and Authority derived thereby is void and warrants not Proceeding in the Subject the Letter was as just as might be being obtained on his Information to whose Government and Trust His Majesty had committed the Kingdom and if he mis-inform he must Answer it And the Letter is written with caution giving Authority to proceed in matter of Equity as former Deputies had done and if it be not proved that his Predecessors had used such Proceedings where is his Authority He says he hath proceeded according to the direction of the Kings Letter that is he never determined Title of Land but in Equity and when such Causes have come to him he hath referred them to Law which we are forced to disprove that by offering it under his own hand that whereas a Nobleman of the Realm my Lord of Baltinglas had mortgaged to Sir Robert Parkhurst for 3000 l. Land of a 1000 l. year when Sir Robert had Title at Law and might as Mortgagor have entred after the day past Sir Robert prefers a Petition to my Lord of Strafford himself and he without the Council determines the Possession and takes it from the Mortgagee and afterwards he purchases the Lands himself and letts them for 680 and odd pounds a year For my Lord Mountnorris his Imprisonment the Manager said That when his distressed Lady the Mother of Twelve Children Petitioned His Majesty declaring the great Distress her Husband suffered by the Tyrannical Power exercised over them His Majesty like a Gracious Prince referred it to the consideration of the Deputy That on submission he should deliver him out of Prison But when the poor Lady presented it with Tears in her Eyes and cast her self at his Feet though there was a Reference from His Majesty yet he that would at another time shelter himself under the Kings Prerogative refuses to give so much Respect as to entertain it and when the eldest Son came refused to accept it Another of the Managers added That whereas there is a restriction in the Kings Letter That the Earl of Strafford should not meddle with any thing in other Courts they would shew that after two Decrees in a Court my Lord hath on a Petition Decreed quite contrary and it was no Beggars Cause but a Knights and 5000 l. value That to the Kings Letter they will give all Reverence But if my Lord of Strafford had found such a constant practice to be proved he needed no Letter to set up the Jurisdiction that was in him before That this Letter under the Signet can give no Countenance against an Act of Parliament which Orders That the Deputy shall not meddle with Causes but remit them to their proper Courts and no other Exposition can be given of the saving of the Kings Prerogative but only a reservation of His Liberty to Sue in any Courts And for him to seek by mis-information to procure a Letter from His Majesty for a Power not warrantable by Law he conceives it an Abuse of His Majesty and that makes his fault the greater and he instanced in the Marquess of Dublin who for procuring
I told the Lieutenant that I did hold the Council-Chamber could not hold Plea of this and thereupon cited 28 H. 6. the Book of Orders the Proclamation Then I moved his Lordship that in regard Gwyn was a poor man and not answerable and might get the Rents being near 100 marks a year he might give security for the Rents if I should recover them by course of Law That my Lord of Strafford thought it just it should be so entred in the Order And being asked how that came to be left out He Answered That Sir Paul Davis the Clerk of the Council told him my Lord of Strafford found fault with it and struck it out with his own hand Being asked what words he heard from my Lord of Strafford concerning the said Order at Council-Board in King Iames his time He Answered That there was a Parsonage in the County of Kerry in his Presentment and it fell void the Dean and some others commended one Atkinson to be his Vicar That on their Commendation not knowing him himself he presented him without any consideration That Atkinson afterwards fell into decay and was Imprisoned and the Prison being very loathsome the Bishop wrote unto him this Deponent and sent him a Lease under the Hand and Seal of him the said Bishop and the Incumbent with a Label for his the Deponents hand and desired him to seal it for 40 s. a year to another that Atkinson might pay his Debts and stock himself with Cattle That he the Deponent refused it though brought 50 miles from his House fearing it might be prejudicial to the next Clerk That the Bishop sent Atkinson's Wife back over the Mountains with his Letter and the Lease and he the Earl of Corke did sign it then For seeing the misery of the poor Woman and her Children he thought it a work of Charity and it continued so till my Lord of Strafford came to the Government That then he had a Bill preferred against him in the Star-Chamber for breaking an Act of State That none should make a Lease for longer than the Incumbents life and desired that the Bill should be read in all the Proceedings of it That thereupon he told the Earl of Strafford it was a work of Charity and he never heard of such an Act of State being not published and made in King Iames his time and in the Lord Grandisons Government who are both dead And therefore he conceived there was no cause to charge or prosecute him for it being but an Act of State That my Lord of Strafford Answered I tell you my Lord as Great as you are I will make you and all the Subjects of Ireland know That any Act of State made or to be made shall be as binding to you and the Subjects of Ireland during my Government as an Act of Parliament Being asked on my Lord of Straffords motion whether the Order made in the Case of Gwyn was not made by the major part of the Votes of the Board He Answered That he did say that it was Voted at the Council-Table but he knows not whether it were done by the major part and afterwards with a lower voice His Lordship added that he thinks it was never Voted Iohn Waldron Sworn was examined touching the words my Lord of Strafford was charged to say touching an Act of State being equal to an Act of Parliament and the occasion He Answered It was his chance to be at Council-Table when a Cause depending between the Merchants of Galloway and some others that prosecuted the business in behalf of the Church about a Lease made by the Dean of Derry which was debated at the Council-Board And there was one Mr. Martin of Council for the Merchants and he pressing hard for his Clients It pleased my Lord to think he had over-shot himself or was too forward and asked what he had to say that he prest that Cause so hard That Mr. Martin Answered him He had an Act of Parliament or Statute or to that purpose That my Lord of Strafford Replied again Sir I will make you know That an Act of this Board shall be as good as any Act or Statute or words to that effect Iohn Kay after some Exceptions taken by the Earl of Strafford against him as no fit Witness in respect of his prosecuting a Suit against his Lordship for the Lady Hibbotts which was Over-ruled by their Lordships was sworn and being asked touching the said words to be spoken by the Earl of Strafford and the occasion and the time He Answered That he was present at Council-Table by chance when there was a Cause wherein Mr. Martin pleading for his Clients My Lord-Deputy then asked him What made him so earnest for it He said He had an Act of Parliament or Statute to justifie his Cause Hereupon my Lord-Deputy Answered He should know that as long as Himself sate in that Place An Act of State should be as strong as an Act of Parliament or words to that effect Being asked of the time He Answered He doth not remember the time but it was three years and upwards It was before Iuly 1637. but the Day and Year he remembers not but it was in the Case where Mr. Martin was Council My Lord Corke being asked about the time he said It was in 1635. about February Mr. Waldron being asked Whether it was in a Church-Cause Answered My Lord-Deputy made an Offer That if they would take a Lease for 21 years at full value they should have it But if they would stand on the Trial of the Lease they must take the adventure And Mr. Hoy being asked Whether it was a Church-Cause He Answered He conceived the Church was Interested in it Lord Kill mallock asked Whether he heard my Lord Strafford say An Act of Council should be as Valid as an Act of Parliament when on what occasion and to what scope He Answered That he was at Council-Table some four or five years ago and there did hear my Lord of Strafford say to one of the Council he cannot say it was Mr. Martin He would have him know as long as himself was Governor An Act of State should be as binding as an Act of Parliament on what occasion he cannot say He further said That in the 10th Year of the King in the Parliament held in Ireland he heard Sir George Ratcliffe my Lord of Strafford's Eccho in that House say On occasion of a Bill that was cast out in that House making it Felony for any to have Powder without Licence It is all one he would have an Act of State for it which should be as binding as an Act of Parliament Sir Pierce Crosby was asked Whether he heard my Lord of Strafford at another time say An Act of Council should be as valid as an Act of Parliament when on what occasion to what intent He Answered That he doth very well remember the words the time not precisely but he was sure it was soon
after my Lords coming into Ireland and before the Parliament and was the cause of the first Exception against him the said Sir Pierce Crosby for he reasoned it with his Lordship being at his own Table at Dinner there being then present and sitting next to him a Member of this Honourable House my Lord Castlehaven There were likewise my Lord Osmond and several others of the Council of Ireland The words were these That if he lived He would make an Act of State to be of equal Power with an Act of Parliament That he the Deponent thought his Lordship spoke it merrily and answered him in the same kind saying My Lord when you go about to do this I will believe some body will rise as an English Gentleman did in England and desire a Clause of Exception that it may not reach to himself his Kindred and Friends That my Lord of Strafford looked on him very earnestly and said He would take him whosoever he was and lay him by the heels That this was in Parliament time And he the Deponent would fain have qualified it but Parliament or not Parliament says my Lord Ireland is a Conquer'd Nation and the Conqueror should give the Law That he the said Sir Pierce Crosby Replyed My Lord then I beseech you give me leave I am one of those that must uphold an Act of State by all lawful ways having the Honour to be a Member of the Government though unworthy What will be alledged on the other part they will say an Act of Parliament attaints and restores Blood and doth many things an Act of State cannot reach to for it is confined within the limits of the Government That my Lord having not to Reply to this rose in some choller and told him the Deponent of something else he conceived he the Deponent had done amiss at Council-Board on a Statute that was in debate And so the Manager concluded the Article with thus much more The Article in the conclusion of it charges him with scorning the Government and Laws And it was desired their Lorships would take notice of what is proved out of these words and the concurrent proof Yesterday The Earl of Strafford begins his Defence saying First I must stand upon the truth of my Answer which must be good till it be denied so far as goes to matter of Misdemeanor I have not had time to examine Witnesses having not liberty till Friday last which I urge by way of excuse if my Answers give not full satisfaction Here is an Order of the House of Commons there whereby your Lordships may perceive how unlikely I am to have any thing from Ireland that may work to my Justification which was read and bears Date 25. February 1640. Authorising those undernamed to go aboard any Ships and seize search and break up all Trunks Chests and Cabins aboard To seize on all Silver and Gold except small Sums and all Debts Evidences and Writings as they shall think fit of him the said Earl of Strafford This his Lordship conceived to be a great Violation of the Peerage of the Kingdom For making good of his Answer his Lordship Alledged That the Council-Board of Ireland is a Court of Record which differs much from the Council-Board of England and that they proceed there by Bill Answer Examination Publication and all the formal courses of legal Proceedings That my care to preserve the Authority of the Deputy and Council is not a Subversion of the Laws Only it directs it and puts the execution of the Law another way That for Reasons of State it must be preserved being the place of Resort for Protection and Defence of the English Planters and Protestant Clergy I shall produce and acknowledge the Instructions made 22 Iac. and I shall read part that bounds the Council-Board particulary mentioned in the Reply to the Third Charge I desire a Book may be read a Book in the hands of Mr. Denham containing certain Answers given by the Lord Chichester to certain Complaints made against that State and written with Mr. Baron Denham's own hand which on debate was Resolved not to be read being written only for a private Remembrance I shall refer to my Lord Ranulagh's Deposition the other day to satisfie your Lordships touching the Proceedings at Council Table To prove the Council-Board to be a Court of Record Robert Lord Dillom being asked Whether before my Lord Strafford's time he had not known always during his memory the Deputy and Council in all causes of Plantation and the Church proceed by Petition Answer Examination of Witnesses Publication and Hearing as in other Courts of Equity and upon Oath He Answered That he remembers in my Lord Chichester's time of Government it was the practise of the Board so to do That he remembers it in my Lord Grandison's time that he had the Honour to be called to the Council-Board under my Lord Faulkland's Government and knew it then And it was in the Justices time that preceded my Lord Strafford's Government To have Petitions Examinations of Witnesses Publication a day of hearing granted and all ordinary Proceedings Being asked Whether at that Board they have not been punished who have disobeyed Proclamations and Acts of State before my Lord Strafford's time and how long He Answered That out of his Observation at Council-Table Acts of State were made because of the scarcity of Parliaments that they might be a Supplement to Acts of Parliament that he hath known before and when he sate at the Board on contempts of these Acts of State or Proclamations which he said he had heard the Judges say to be a kind of Law of the Land for the present the Parties were Attached brought to the Board and upon full Examination of the Cause and Proof of the Contempt sometimes Imprisoned sometimes Fined according to the Delinquency and Degree of the Offence supposed to be committed Being asked of Fines in Cases between Party and Party He Answered That he doth not remember any Fine imposed in a special Cause betwixt Party and Party Sir Adam Loftus being asked to the same purpose He Answered It hath ever been since his remembrance the constant Practise there in Causes of the Church and Plantation to proceed on Petition Answer c. and Fines imposed on Breakers of Publick Acts of State and Proclamations But he remembers not any Fines for Contempts in case of particular and private Interest We shall admit it to have Cognizance of matters of Plantation and Church and such as are recommended from the King to the Council here But not to be a Court of Record From these Proofs I infer That the Council-Board there hath another Constitution then here where it is only a Court of State I shall produce the Order made in my Lord of Corke's Case which I observe to be in the Case of the Church and so within the Cognizance of Deputy and Council The Order was read being signed by Sir Paul Davis
Ely sworn was examined what was the proceedings of the Marshalls Court when he was Judge-Marshall and how long he had been so He Answered He was 40 years since Judge there and for the manner of proceeding There was never any Deputy or Governor of that Kingdom but they had a Commission of Martial-Law to be exercised in the time of their Government but the exercise of that Law was two-fold one was Summary the other was Plenary That which was Summary and short was committed to the Provost-Marshall that sought after the Rebels and Kernes that kept the Woods These when they were apprehended the Provost-Marshall hanged them on the next Tree and this was in poor Cases where the estate of the party that prosecutes is not worth 40 s. In the second which is the Plenary proceeding there are three Considerations to be had of the time the place and the person the time must necessarily be in time of War the place in the Field and the persons must be such as are subject to the Rule of Martial-Law And the proceeding was thus The parties complained the other appearing an Information was drawn in writing Witnesses produced and reduced in writing a Sentence given absolutely or condemnatory and the Party punished or acquitted and the Warrant directed to the Provost-Marshall to put the Judgment in Execution But when the Army was dissolved and every one returned to their own home Souldiers Captains and Commanders this Power ceased and was no farther executed for it had been an extraordinary damage to His Majesty that by the Martial-Law every one should be tried for he loses nothing but his life not his Lands or his Goods and therefore the proceeding without was so slow and seldom that he had not remembred any man of quality worth 100 l. or 200 l. in thirty years to have been executed by Martial-Law Here the Manager did offer the Instructions given in my Lord Faulkland's time which Mr. Fitz-Gerard testified to be by him examined with the Original in the Signet-Office as to the 33. and 34th Articles Part of the Instructions were read viz. 33. Such as are to be brought to Trial at Law are not to be executed by the Marshal except in time of War and Rebellion One of the Managers observed That my Lord of Strafford would have Power of Martial-Law over my Lord Mountnorris but would not execute him which shews he desires not blood so much as Power of blood that the Law of all the Peers might be under his Girdle and he besought their Lordships to consider it Whereas he said The blood of their Lordships Ancestors was spent in the Irish Wars this way their own blood may be spent in the Peace of Ireland and Peace of England c. My Lord of Strafford taking notice of some words charging him that my Lord Mountnorris lost his Offices in that Sentence In way of Answer said That they were lost in a Sentence in the Castle-Chamber for Misdemeanors fully proved and by himself confessed and therefore His Majesty disposed of them To which one of the Managers Replyed That there was no sentence in the Castle-Chamber against him And so after some Discourses and Resolution touching the Method of the Proceedings about the next Articles the House was Adjourned The First day Monday March 29. 1641. THE Sixth Article The Charge That the said Earl of Strafford without any Legal Procéedings and upon a Paper-Petition of Richard Rolstone did cause the said Lord Mountnorris to be disseized and put out of possession of his Freehold and Inheritance of his Mannor of Tymore in the County of Armagh in the Kingdom of Ireland the said Lord Mountnorris having béen 18 years before in quiet Possession thereof MR. Glyn opened the Sixth Article setting forth the Execution of an Arbitrary Power by the Earl of Strafford contrary to Law in point of the Estates of His Majesties Subjects by disseizing and putting the Lord Mountnorris a Peer out of Possession of Lands of 200 l. a year which he had possessed 18 years before on a Paper-Petition without any Rules of Justice during the said Lord Mountnorris his Imprisonment contrary to an Act of Parliament read the other day to King Iames his Instructions to the directions of His Majesties Proclamation and the Rules of proceeding in the Kingdom of Ireland The Decree made in the Cause betwixt Rolstone and my Lord Mountnorris was first offered the Manager observing that it was nothing to the matter whether the Decree were just or unjust and that it never depended in the Chancery as is set forth in his Answer Thomas Little the Lord of Strafford's Secretary being sworn attested that the Copy produced was under his own hand And here my Lord of Strafford informed their Lordships that upon his Defence he would ask Mr. Little some questions desiring their Lordships to remember that he is upon his Oath The Decree was read Dated 28. Iuly 1637. whereby for the Reasons therein set forth and with the assistance of the Lord Chief Justice of the Common Pleas It was among other things Ordered That Henry Rolston should be put into quiet Possession of certain Lands therein mentioned Lord Mountnorris being Examined Whether he was put out of possession by Vertue of that Order and how long he had Possession of the Lands He Answered He was in quiet and peaceable Possession from May 20. till he was put out by my Lord of Strafford's Warrant August 29. 1637. as was written to him from an Agent that was there from the delivery of the Warrant to the Sheriff That he was all the while the business was in prosecution till his coming into England a little before his putting out of possession in prison under restraint for not suing out his Pardon upon the Sentence of the Council of War Mr. Anslow sworn and interrogated to the same purpose Answered That to my Lord Mountnorris's possession of the Lands he can say only by seeing the Accounts passed by former Receivers and the Patent my Lord Mountnorris had of the Land but for his being put out of the possession by the Order he found when he was left in Ireland about a year and half ago he was put out of possession by an Order of my Lord of Strafford and that he being there could have no Rents paid Henry Rolsion's Son being in possession the Father being dead Being asked Whether a Petition was not preferred for liberty to proceed at Law He Answered It was in his own behalf for the Land was estated on him by his Father And that he the Deponent being to pass his Land on the Commission of Grace Rolston Petitioned for it himself and therefore he the Deponent Petitioned it might be hindred to pass and that he might have his Right tried legally but he could get no Answer the Commissioners saying They sate not there to question any Lords Estate The Manager observed this to be the assuming
Witness in Courts of Justice And to answer that fully and clearly it shall appear that this very thing is assigned by Secretary Little to be the reason why he should not go over that he might not complain of his suit and a Witness did depose to that effect Iohn Meaugh bein sworn and Interrogated to the Cause of denying the said Licence He Answers That he went to Dublin with Mac-Carty the Son with the Petition and that Secretary Little took the Petition in his hand and said Are not you Mac-Carty's Son Yes said he And you intend to go and complain against the Order my Lord conceived against your Father No indeed sayes he I do not Sayes the Secretary I will take your Petition and deliver it to my Lord and I believe my Lord will not grant your Request and they left the Petition and went out A little after a kinsman of his the Deputies Master Sir Valentine Brown said to him the Son I have heard my Lord hath granted your Request in your Petition so they came to the place to receive the Petition and this is the Petition shewed their Lordships when his the Deputies Master saw the Petition he would not take it Take notice Gentlemen saith Mr. Little what Charge he hath and if he doth any thing to the contrary let it be on his peril so they took the Petition and went away Against Parries Testimony First my Lord says he is a single Witness but if that be not admitted there is no need of his Testimony for Secretary Cook 's Warrant proves what was the reason and their Lordships may know whence that came His Sentence is thus far in question here whether he was sentenced for coming over or otherwise It is true and that is the iniquity of it the sentence doth express it to be for another Cause It is not usual in Sentences to say what it is not for but what it is for but it is for his not petitioning the Council-Table and setting forth after in his Petition that his offence was his coming overwithout Licence and saying Mr. Ralton pretended Secretary Cooks ' directions whereas he must so speak truth as not to be charged with a pretence And it were most just to sentence him for coming without Licence then for his being not called nor any way able to answer the Defence That others are joyned with him in the Sentence it doth not excuse his Lordship They shew the more dependencie upon him and by this means no complaints of Injustice or Oppression can be brought to any but himself and that brings them under his wing However the fault is in them as well as in him The Remonstrance he says is only a Charge but it is the Declaration and Voice of all the People of sufficient credit to represent their grievances what they conceive to be their true Liberty and how they have used it ever since the time of H. 2. Which is that they should have redress for grievances which is no other than the Common-Law That the Subject should have free Access to the Sovereign His last is That there is nothing of Treason in this And to this the same Answer is given as to all the rest which are not individual Treasons The Multiplication of Acts all containing something in them of an Arbitrary power conclude as effects from the cause from whence this proceeds And this thing is not so petty as my Lord makes it to deny the Access of the Subject to their Sovereign and tho it be allowed by His Majesties Letter and Instructions yet these being obtained by himself make it worse he taking so Sovereign a Power that Non sentit parem nec superiorem Mr. Palmer instanced in that great Case of the Marquis of Dublin that had the Dominion of Ireland granted him he had Merum maximum Imperium under the Broad Seal and his Patent passed in Parliament yet it was one of the Articles charged on him for it tended to the Severance of the Allegiance of the People from their King In the next Article their Lordships shall hear his demeanor to those of the Scotch Nation Mr. Maynard desired to add a word to what had been said First My Lord says that the particulars are not in the Charge but that is a mistake for this Case of Parry is particularly charged and divers others it is true the rest are general but this is particular so the Charge is good in that And whereas my Lord had endeavoured to justifie this by Law Mr. Maynard observed That they do not lay the point upon that how far the Subject may be restrained in that particular but here is the sting of my Lord of Strafford's proceedings he takes this be it lawful or unlawful to prevent the Complaints which might be brought to His Majesty against his Injustice for he hath done all that tothis people now an ill intent may make that ill which in it self otherwise will not be ill and he besought their Lordships to take this into consideration what a miserable condition the Subjects of Ireland are in when there are never so great grievances laid on them yet they cannot complain and no complaint can be received unless he that oppresses them gives them leave so to do and when their oppressions riâ— so high when shall he give them leave My Lord of 〈◊〉 says Thousands have come yea many he is sure that have not been punished nor questioned Whence Mr. Maynard observed That it is ill lâ—k that the oppressed are always punished others may go without punishment but it falls out unhappily That they that have Complaints against him are the men that are restrained and it may not be thought that they will bear a Complaint sometimes that they may seek a better opportunity when they shall see such examples that is one Fined for exhibiting a Petition and saying that is untrue when against another an Information that hath laid dead halfe a year shall be quickened upon that occasion and they must be punished more that are more oppressed as in the Case of my Lord of Esmond And whereas my Lord of Strafford says he never punished any where there was Complaint before Mr. Maynard besought their Lordships to observe that it is point blank contrary to the Evidence and Oath before their Lordships for in that particular Case of Mac-Carty there were two Dismissions It is true the Merits of the Causes are not proper to be offered but there is cause to take Confidence that where it is called a fraud on Mac-Carty's part when it is examined it will be a very heavy oppression And whereas it hath been said by way of Justification mitigation at least that there hath been no Fees taken for Licences but such as were given voluntarily except in case of Officers of the State or the Army proof was offered that Mr. Little that takes on him to swear for himself or his fellows tho he did not know
give Notice of it to this House Sir George Ratcliff being already sent for by Order of this House upon an Information of High Treason Resolved upon the Question That the Earl of Craford's Troop and those other Officers in the Army that go under the Name of Reformadoes are unnecessary Charge and fit to be spared and that my Lord General be moved by Message from this House thereunto Resolved That those Companies or other Officers that shall be thus Casheer'd by the Lord General shall be paid to the Eighth of December next Tuesday December 1. 1640. A Message from the Lords by Baron Trevor and Iudge Bartley The Lords have sent Us to this House to desire a present Conference in the Painted Chamber with the same Committee that was concerning the matter of the free Conference Yesterday Answer returned by the same Messengers This House has taken into Consideration the Message of the Lords and they return this Answer That they will give a meeting presently as is desired Mr. Pym Reports from the Conference this day That the Lords Committee with whom we had a free Conference Yesterday took the Matter into Consideration and their Resolution is That such Members of the House of Commons as they shall make choice of shall be present from time to time at the preparatory Examinations concerning the Earl of Strafford The Lord Keeper expected we should say something We told them We had no Warrant for a Conference was desired concerning the matter of free Conference and that a free Conference was not desired the Question they would have been satisfied in was Whether we did intend to have the Examinations taken publick in the House or by a private Committee I answered We had no Commission for a free Conference The same Committee that were appointed to draw up the Charge against the Earl of Strafford are to be present at the Preparatory Examinations of Witnesses before the Lords to present such Questions unto the Lords as they shall think fit thereupon and after a full Examination to present the whole state of the business to this House A Message to be sent to the Lords to acquaint them that the House is ready by some Members of this House to present divers Witnesses to be examined and such questions as they shall desire that those Witnesses so propounded by them may be all examined one after another with speed and secresie Thursday morning is peremptorily appointed for Sir George Ratcliff to appear here and if he come not then a Message is to be sent to the Lords to desire them to move His Majesty for a Proclamation to be ordered against him to bring him in Power is given to the Committee that is to be present at the preparatory Examination of Witnesses before the Lords to summon such Witnesses to be examined to morrow as they shall think fit Mr. Maynard's Report from the Conference Yesterday The Lords said They had taken the Message into Consideration sent by Mr. Pym some things were Resolved others not and for that purpose desired a free Conference whereas we did desire to examine some Members of this House they were ready to examine them when we should require They answered That the Peers of their House that shall be desired and all the Assistants of that House when they shall be thereunto required shall be examined upon Oath and next for the time and secresie They said they should be speedily examined and Examinations secretly kept Thursday December 3. 1640. A Message brought from the Lords by my Lord Chief Justice Littleton and Judge Bartley That according to a desire of this House by a late Message they have deputed certain of their Members to take the Examination of Witnesses in the Case of the Earl of Strafford which they will be ready to perform in the presence of such Members of this House as shall be deputed to that purpose Ordered That the Earl of Kildares Petition presented to the Grand Committee for Irish Affairs be referred to the Sub-Committee for those Affairs Friday December 4. 1640. Ordered That those Members of this House that be appointed to be present at the preparatory Examinations before the Lords be required to declare that by their Duty they owe to this House they are obliged to keep all those Examinations secret Those Eight appointed for that Service did make all of them Protestations to that purpose Ordered That those Eight or any Four of them may be present at the preparatory Examinations before the Lords Mr. Selden Mr. Dutton Mr. Crew Sir Peter Hayman Sir Harbottle Grimston Sir Henry Anderson Sir Nevil Poole Sir Thomas Barrington Saturday The Petition of Richard Heaton and Lyonell Farrington were read and Farrington called in did avow his Petition the Petitions are referred to the Committee appointed to draw up the Charge against the Earl of Strafford to make use of it if they shall see Cause December 26th 1640. Ordered That the Committee appointed to draw up the Charge against the Earl of Strafford shall have Power to examine Witnesses concerning Sir George Ratcliff and to prepare a Charge against him and to present it to this House Tuesday December 29th 1640. The Articles against Sir George Ratcliff Read Resolved upon the Question That this House shall Accuse Sir George Ratcliff Knight of High Treason in the Name of all the Commons of England That these Articles thus Read shall be the Ground of this Accusation That a Message shall be sent forthwith to the Lords to Accuse Sir George Ratcliff Knight of High Treason in the Name of this House and of all the Commons of England and that very speedily they will bring Articles against him Resolved upon the Question That the Articles prepared by the Committee against Sir George Ratcliff and Read here shall be engrossed against to morrow to be sent to the Lords as a Charge against him A Message sent from the Lords by the Master of the Rolls and Judge Reeves The Lords have Commanded Us to say to You That whereas there came a Message from this House to Accuse Sir George Ratcliff of High Treason They would know Whether they should presently take care to make safe his Person Answer returned by the same Messengers That this House has taken their Lordships Message into Consideration and will forthwith return them Answer by Messengers of their own Mr. Pym went up to the Lords to acquaint them that this day the House of Commons gave no Instructions to their former Messengers concerning the Committing of Sir George Ratcliff because his Person is already in safe Custody in the Gate-house and they intended to have acquainted their Lordships with it when they had produced the Articles against him which would have been very shortly but since they are prevented by their Lordships they refer what to do in it to their Lordships Mr. Pym brings Answer from the Lords of his Message That concerning
namely the said Earl of Strafford the 12th day of December Anno Domini 1635. in the time of full Peace did in the said Realm of Ireland give and procure to be given against the Lord Mountnorris then and yet a Péer of the said Realm of Ireland and then Uice-Treasurer and Receiver-General of the Realm of Ireland and Treasurer at War and one of the Principal Secretaries of State and kéeper of the Privy-Signet of the said Kingdom a Sentence of Death by a Council of War called together by the said Earl of Strafford without any Warrant or Authority of Law or Offence deserving any such punishment And he the said Earl did also at Dublin within the said Realm of Ireland in the Month of March in the Fourtéenth Year of His Majesties Reign without any Legal or due Procéedings or Trial give and cause to be given a Sentence of Death against one other of His Majesties Subjects whose name is yet unknown and caused him to be put to Death in execution of the same Sentence VI. That the said Earl of Strafford without any Legal Procéedings and upon a Paper-Petition of Richard Rolston did cause the said Lord Mountnorris to be disseised and put out of Possession of his Freehold and Inheritance of his Mannor of Tymore in the County of Armagh in the Kingdom of Ireland the said Lord Mountnorris having been 18 years before in quiet possession thereof VII That the said Earl of Strafford in the Term of holy Trinity in the Thirteenth Year of His now Majesties Reign did cause a Case commonly called The Case of Tenures upon defective Titles to be made and drawn up without any Iury or Tryal or other Legal Process and without the consent of Parties and did then procure the Iudges of the said Realm of Ireland to deliver their Opinions and Resolutions to that case and by colour of such Opinion did without any Legal procéeding cause Thomas Lord Dillon a Péer of the said Realm of Ireland to be put out of the possession of divers Lands and Tenements being his Fréehold in the Country of Mayo and Roscomen in the said Kingdom and divers other of His Majesties Subjects to be put out of Possession and disseised of their Fréehold by colour of the same Resolution without Legal proceedings whereby many hundreds of His Majesties Subjects were undone and their Families utterly ruinated VIII That the said Earl of Strafford upon a Petition of Sir John Gifford Knight the first day of February in the said Thirteenth Year of His Majesties Reign without any Legal Process made a Decrée or Order against Adam Uiscount Loftus of Ely a Peer of the said Realm of Ireland and Lord Chancellor of Ireland and did cause the said Uiscount to be imprisoned and kept close Prisoner on pretence of Disobedience to the said Decree or Order And the said Earl without any Authority and contrary to his Commission required and commanded the said Lord Uiscount to yield up unto him the Great Seal of the Realm of Ireland which was then in his Custody by His Majesties Command and imprisoned the said Chancellor for not obeying such his Command And without any Legal Proceeding did in the same Thirtéenth Year imprison George Earl of Kildare a Péer of Ireland against Law thereby to enforce him to submit his Title to the Mannor and Lordship of Castleleigh in the Quéens Country being of great yearly value to the said Earl of Strafford's Will and Pleasure and kept him a year Prisoner for the said cause two months whereof he kept him close Prisoner and refused to enlarge him notwithstanding His Majesties Letters for his Enlargement to the said Earl of Strafford directed And upon a Petition exhibited in October Anno Domini 1635. by Thomas Hibbots against Dame Mary Hibbots Widow to him the said Earl of Strafford the said Earl of Strafford recommended the said Petition to the Council-Table of Ireland where the most part of the Council gave their Uote and Opinion for the said Lady but the said Earl finding fault herewith caused an Order to be entred against the said Lady and threatned her that if she refused to submit thereunto he would imprison her and fine her Five hundred pounds that if she continued obstinate he would continue her Imprisonment and double her Fine every month by means whereof she was enforced to relinquish her Estate in the Lands questioned in the said Petition which shortly after were conveyed to Sir Robert Meredith to the use of the said Earl of Strafford And the said Earl in like manner did imprison divers others of His Majesties Subjects upon pretence of Disobedience to his Orders Decrées and other illegal Command by him made for pretended Debts Titles of Lands and other Causes in an Arbitrary and extrajudicial course upon Paper-Petitions to him preferred and no Cause legally depending IX That the said Earl of Strafford the Sixteenth day of February in the Twelfth Year of His Majesties Reign assuming to himself a Power above and against Law took upon him by a general Warrant under his hand to give Power to the Lord Bishop of Down and Connor his Chancellor or Chancellors and their several Officers thereto to be appointed to attach and arrest the Bodies of all such of the meaner and poorer sort who after Citation should either refuse to appear before them or appearing should omit or deny to perform or undergo all lawful Decrees Sentences and Orders issued imposed or given out against them and them to commit and keep in the next Gaol until they should either perform such Sentences or put in sufficient Bail to shew some reason before the Council-Table of such their contempt and neglect and the said Earl the day and year last mentioned signed and issued a Warrant to that effect and made the like Warrants to several other Bishops and their Chancellors in the said Realm of Ireland to the same effect X. That the said Earl of Strafford being Lord Lieutenant or Deputy of Ireland procured the Customs of the Merchandize Exported out and Imported into that Realm to be farmed to his own Use. And in the Ninth Year of His now Majesties Reign he having then Interest in the said Customs to advance his own Gain and Lucre did cause and procure the native Commodities of Ireland to be rated in the Book of Rates for the Customs according to which the Customs were usually gathered at far greater Ualues and Prices than in truth they were worth that is to say every Hyde at Twenty shillings which in truth was worth but Five shillings every Stone of Wooll at Thirteen shillings four pence though the same were really worth but Five shillings at the utmost Niue shillings by which means the Custom which before was but a twentieth part of the true value of the Commodity was enhanced sometimes a Fifth part and sometimes to a fourth and sometimes to a third part of the true value to the great Oppression of the Subjects and decay of
heard out and we shall not interrupt my Lrod of Strafford in asking what questions he pleases in his just defence Let the Witness proceed To your Lordships Order and in all things I shall pay Obedience I desire nothing in the World but a clear understanding of the Truth in this business and so I am sure every man doth that hears me and without Offence and with all Reverence I humbly offer That the Witnesses may stand apart from the Committee for the Commons the Committe asking the Witnesses many questions which I conceive by your Lordships Rule should be asked by your Lordships only For which I crave pardon if I have offended in moving of it I standing for my Life and which is dearer my Honour and my Children Their Lordships Rule hath been kept and things shall be carried clearly on all hands We desire the Witness may proceed to speak concerning his own Imprisonment and the Lord Steward Interrogating him accordingly he kept to the same Point F. Thorpe proceeds saying That he could give no other ground for it though another occasion was taken yet he conceived the true ground because he was too busie in medling with Prohibitions That the Pursevant attending the Council at York came to his house and carried him before the Lord President and Council where he attended a day and then had liberty to speak with my Lord That his Lordship was pleased to tell him there was an Accusation against him but they that laid it were not come to Town therefore he must attend and that they were his betters and therefore he had reason to attend He desired to know what it was but could not have that favour but some eight days after being in the mean time in the Pursevants Custody he was brought to the Council-Table again and his Lordship sitting at the upper end commanded him to kneel he coming as a Delinquent which he did accordingly bringing with him a spirit of submission knowing very well his ruine depended on his opposition and on his rising his Lordship was offended he stayed no longer kneeling Afterwards a Letter was read from some Gentlemen in the Country wherein they had written That I had spoken at the Sessions a little more than became me to the Court in defence of a Client on a Traverse to an Indictment And what they had written I confessed was very true for it was thus upon the Traverse of an Indictment the question being Whether the bare Indictment were Evidence to the Petit Jury I did say it was no Evidence and I desired to Appeal to the Judges My Lord President was pleased to say He would teach me to know there were other men for me to complain to viz. The President and the Council I told his Lordship I was ready to complain to any where I might have Right And I Appeal to the Kings learned Council Whether it was not Law what I spoke I was then put out and direction sent I must find Sureties and make publick submission at the Sessions for saying these words I did find Sureties and when I went to Sir W. Ellis to enter the Recognizance He told me I am sorry but I cannot help you for my Lord of Strafford over-ruled us and you are to be bound to the good Behaviour and make submission at the Sessions And he said further That what he was enjoyned he did perform And all this I conceive originally grew for that I did oppose the Jurisdiction of the Court at York and not for the Causes pretended And this binding to my good Behaviour was eight or ten years ago And being further asked Whether he knew of any other that had been oppressed with this Exorbitant Power or no F. Thorpe answered He had heard of many but he was not present at their Commitment nor saw their Orders and can say nothing of his knowledge only he knew Sir Thomas Gore was under Custody George Hawes was produced next and interrogated What he knew of Sir Conyers Darcies Fining I confess I was there and gave consent to his Fining but it was not by vertue of the said Commission for it was before my time The Manager did now sum up the Evidence and my Lord of Strafford's Answer was expected I desire a little time to retire And after some debating thereof betwixt his Lordship and the Committee It was Resolved his Lordship should have some little space to rest and peruse his Notes at the Bar which the Manager alledged to be unusual in any Court of Justice in a proceeding of this Nature My Lords there is a great deal of difference betwixt the Case of a man that answers for a bloody hainous and known Treason by the Statutes of the Realm before the Lord Steward and his Peers in an ordinary way of proceeding and him that answers a mixt Charge partly Misdemeanors and partly as apprehended Treason There is nothing in this that can be Treason and when 1000 misdemeanors will not make one Felony shall 28 Misdemeanors heighten it to a Treason And in that Point in due time I shall desire my Council may express themselves Whether any thing in this Charge admit it all to be true be Treason that if they be but Misdemeanors I should be admitted Council and examine Witnesses by Commission I had no leave to summon a Witness before Friday last and the greatest part of my Proofs and Charge comes out of Ireland and to be debarred from these under pretence of Treason I conceive to be in this Case a little severe But I shall proceed to my Defence And first As for the Instructions which I am charged withall being 21. March 8 Car. they were not procured by me I knew nothing of them The Commission and Instructions to the President and Council of York are of course renewed on the death of one of the Council of the Fee in Ordinary and the putting in of a Counsellor at large is only by Letter Sir Arthur Ingram who was Secretary going out and Sir Iohn Melton succeeding these Instructions of 21 March 8 Car. were renew'd That in the Case of such Renewing the Kings Councell of the Fee do by the Secretary offer the Kings learned Council such things as they conceive conducing to the clearing and bettering of the Kings Service in those parts And it finally comes to the Lord Keeper or Lord Chancellor and they agree it I protest that I gave no direction in these nor do I conceive any thing offered proves me to be the man that procured them As to the Execution of it from the date of that Commission to this hour I did never one Act nor stayed a minute as President of the Council of York The Commission being granted 21 March Oct. Car. and I went towards Ireland in Iuly following which I can prove by my Servants if they might be sworn And before I be convinced of a Misdemeanor I conceive
they must be sworn But that now I answer only to Treason If I were neither privy to the taking out of the Commission nor any way employed in the executing of it I Appeal unto your Lordships and the Gentlemen of the House of Commons Whether I can be charged as Criminal as to this Commssion or any thing that proceeds from it As for the Sentence against Sir Conyers Darcy it was Just and he complained not of it Of which I have a Copy and desire it may be read That from the first Institution of the Court of President and Council at York That Court had both a Star-Chamber and Chancery Power as will appear by all the Instructions before that time That if there be an Errour in a Judge so that he give a Sentence otherwise than a man of better understanding conceives reason for there is no cause it should be heightned to a Treason to take from him his Life and Honour and all he hath meerly because he was not so wise a man as he might have been nor so understanding as another And if this be prest on Judges I think few Judges will serve And for my part I had rather go to my Cottage as the Witness saith then serve on these Terms The Charge lays it to be done in May 8 Car. and divers years following and the Instructions came not in time till the 21st Mar. 8 Car. which I conceive to be a mistaking of the year That as to the Sentence of Sir Iohn Bourcher which is charged upon me but not insisted upon by the Gentleman I was no way acquainted with the beginning proceeding or ending of the Cause being all that while in Ireland so Your Lordships may observe with what uncertainty men may speak that do inform in such Cases That of the Commission the 13th of the King with which I am likewise charged as the Procurer of it I had no more knowledge than of that which was most forreign being at that time in Ireland and the Commission renewed of one of the Council in Fee I shall now descend to Proofs That the Commission 8 Car. was renewed upon Sir Iohn Meltons coming to be Secretary instead of Sir Arthur Ingram The Committee admitted it To the Testimonies given by the Witnesses I observe That Iohn Gore the first Witness speaks nothing to the renewing of the Commission but to his Fathers Commitment and that was in November but what year Non liquet But this is not within my Charge therefore I shall not Answer to that Though if it were in Charge I doubt not but in that and every thing else I shall give an account of an honest and just man not to say of a discreet and a wise man That for the Testimony of Iohn Musgrave it contains nothing within my Charge and I can say nothing to it but by way of Divination And he is but a single Witness And therefore I conceive shall hardly be able to convince any man of High Treason hardly of a Trespass That what Iohn Musgrave speaks of is grounded on a question of the Jurisdiction of Courts and one rule of our Law is Boni judicis est amplicare Iurisdictionem And why the enlarging of a Jurisdiction should be heightned to a Treason I Appeal to Your Lordships Nobleness Justice and Honour to consider for I think there are none in place of Judicature but they will desire to enlarge their Jurisdiction as far as in Reason and Justice they may And it is a chast Ambition if rightly placed to have as much Power as may be That there may be Power to do the more good in the place where a man lives For F. Thorpe's Testimony I observe That I have nothing to say to him of Exception but that he speaks nothing to the purpose nor to any thing in the Charge I being Charged with the Execution of the Commission 8 and 13 of the King and all he speaks of is precedent in time And what he says is by hear-say from Mr. Justice Hutton and Sir William Ellis I do not remember my Lord Gorings speaking to me about Mr. Thorpe it being 12 13 or 14 years ago I have put in my Answer and if that be not Impeached by Testimony of Witnesses as it is not I conceive it ought to be allowed I desire to produce Witnesses wherein I have Liberty but not to examine on Oath And first To the time of my going towards Ireland His Lordships Secretary being interrogated He Answered That his Lordship went from London 8 Iuly 1633. towards Ireland the 9th year of the King Mr. Railton To the time of his Lordships going towards Ireland said That 8 Iuly 1633. My Lord began his Journey into Ireland being the Ninth year of the King The Committee for the Commons admitted that he went over in Iuly 1633. To the time of my Lord of Straffords coming from York Mr. Thomas Little says His Lordship came from York in Ianuary was eight years and returned not to York till 1636. To his Lordships doing any act as President of York since the said New Commission of Octavo Caroli Mr. Thomas Little says That since the date of that Commission his Lordship never sate as President of the North in any Cause whatsoever His Lordship offered to prove his being in Ireland when Sir Iohn Bourcher was censured by the Vice-President and Council But the Commons not pressing his Lordship in that matter he said If it be granted I have done To the Earl of Straffords being in Ireland when the Commission 8 Car. was renewed Mr. Thomas Little Answered being questioned My Lord was in Ireland at that time he went over in 1636. having come over in November before and was not in England again till 1639. And so My Lords I conclude my Defence That I am charged only with procuring and executing the Commission And this Answer I humbly offer and submit Iohn Gore speaks particularly of the occasion of enlarging the Commission upon the Arresting of his Father That my Lord of Strafford fell on his Knees desiring from His Majesty an enlarging of his Power else that he might go home So going out of England in Iuly after the Commission answers to the Procurement that was before That which his Lordship hath answered to F. Thorpe That the things by him complained of were in the time before the Commission may be used as an Argument That he was privy to the Instructions We produce I. Musgrave only to shew my Lords Violence about Prohibitions before this Commission was procured He growing so high a little before That he would lay them by the Heels that brought the Kings Writ The Council were awed that they durst not demand Justice So that the procuring of it suited most with his Design That his Witnesses had little contradicted what the Witnesses for the Commons had said That whereas it is said the Charge is not Treason if the Fact shall appear to their
had the fortune to have all the Examinations whereupon they proceeded and looked over them all and now I protest and call God to witness not any way as making to me I found the said Lord to have proceeded as Honourably Justly and Nobly to his understanding as any man could do and yet was decryed as much as any man could be And so I beseech Your Lordships to consider me the Kings Servant and that in the Administration of the Commands and Justice intrusted with me I had occasion to give offence to many and that it hath been the ill fortune of those that have been Governours there when they have left the Government not to be so well reported as otherwise they might be Besides There is nothing in this Charge can possibly amount to Treason admit all to be as it is laid though perhaps to a Misdemeanour That if it be no Treason it will fall to be but Misdemeanour and then I conceive it stands with the Justice and Practice of this Court to allow Councel and Witnesses which I am debarred from by the involving me under the general Charge of Treason and having no further time to prepare then since Friday last That though before I durst not say Your Lordships were bound by Rules of any Judicature but stood to Your own Honour and Nobleness and were a Rule to Your selves and herein I take Your Lordships to witness yet since the Gentlemen at the Barr have prest the rules of other Courts I desire leave to offer That in all ordinary Courts of Judicature that ever I heard of where the Criminal party doth Answer and that Answer is not replyed to nor he admitted to make his proof the Answer of the party is taken and confest from which universal Rule of Justice no man can shew him a transgression And therefore since I cannot be admitted my proofs it being impossible to fetch Witnesses out of Ireland since Friday last my Answer I conceive ought to be admitted and the Charge taken as I confest it not as it is on proof Saving to my self that I said I would go on to give the best Answer I could on a suddain professing That if I had had time I am confident through the mercy and goodness of God and the Innocency of my own heart I should be able to clear my self of Treason the greatest Crime between man and man towards His Majesty and towards his People my heart being innocent of it and never having suggestion or thought but for the Greatness and Honour of His Majesty and the Prosperity and blessed Estate of His People all the days of my life and ever desiring the best things and never satisfied I had done enough but did always desire to do better but also of all other foul Crimes of Injustice or Oppression Errours I may have many perhaps my Tongue hath been too free my Heart perhaps hath lain too near my Tongue but God forbid every word should rise up in Judgment against me If every word that 's spoken amiss should be observ'd who is able to endure it for words spoken ten twelve eight or nine years ago to be brought in Judgment of me is a very heavy Case and I beseech your Lordships to turn the Case inward and to tell me if it be not a hard Case to be put upon such an Examination I shall observe further that words ought to be charged within a certain time by the Proviso in the Stat. in E. 6. time they must be brought in question within 30 days as I take it which Proviso stands good in Law but I go now into a Learning that God knows I have little skill of to this I desire my Councel may in due time be heard to open and Plead In the mean time I desire to say that if popular actions must be concluded within a year or two at the most sure words should be questioned within a less time I shall proceed to maintain the truth of my Answer That Ireland is not governed by the same Laws that England is and for that I shall read a few words in my Lord Cooks Learning which God knows I understand not it is in Calvins Case where the words are So as now the Laws of England became the proper Laws of Ireland And therefore because they have Parliaments holden there whereat they have made divers particular Laws as it appears in the 20 H. 6. 8. and 20. and in Ed. Dyer 360. And for that they retain to this day divers of the ancient Customs the Book of 20 H. 6. holds That Ireland is governed by Laws and Customs separate and divers from the Laws of England Therefore in all things belonging to my Charge that came out of Ireland I hope Your Lordships will take along with you the consideration of the Customs and Practices of that Kingdom and not judge me according to that which hath been the Custom and Practice of the Kingdom of England In the second place I come to the words of Ireland being a conquered Nation The words laid in the Charge being that I should say That Ireland was a conquered Nation and the King might do with them what he pleased And first I should do extreamly ill to the Honour of the English Nation and to the memory of divers of Your Lordships Noble Ancestors if I should not both say and think that Ireland is a conquered Nation when here 's mention made in the Laws and in the Acts of State of English Rebels and Irish Enemies certainly there is something in that for till the Kings of England gave them the advantage and benefit of the Laws of England it is well known they were held Irish Enemies and so termed and stiled in all the Records one shall meet withall in these times And that it was a conquered Nation I have very good Authority in the Statute made 11 Eliz. at the Attainder of that famous Rebel Shan Oneale In one part of which it is said That all the Clergy of the Realm assembled in Armagh at the time of the Conquest c. See the Statute Is it then so much for me to say what 's in the Act and is it not for the Honour of the English Nation to say it and it must be said to the Worlds end for 't is a truth And therefore there is no cause it should be taken so hainously or heard with so much displeasure and if I displease for telling the truth I cannot help it He reads another part of it viz. And therefore it is to be understood that King Hen. 2. the first Conqueror of this Realm c. And so it hath been acknowledged in all stories and times and many an English man hath spent his blood in it whose Posterity will be ashamed to view it other than as a conquered Kingdom Nay I believe many Noble Persons are yet living that have bled for it and will take it ill if it be termed less than a Conquest in them
same If there be any Statute that gives my Lord of Strafford as Governour alone power to take Cognizance of meerly private Causes it is something to the purpose to say there is a particular Statute but till that be shewed he hath in this erected an Arbitrary Power And so he concluded the Reply and the Third Article THE Fourth Article The Charge THat Richard Earl of Corke having sued out Process in course of Law for recovery of his Possessions from which he was put by colour of an Order made by the said Earl of Strafford and the Council-Table of the said Realm of Ireland upon a Paper Petition without Legal procéeding did the 20th day of February in the 11th year of His now Majesties Reign threaten the said Earl being then a Péer of the said Realm to Imprison him unless he would surcease his Suit and said That he would have neither Law nor Lawyers dispute or question his Orders And the 20th day of March in the said 11th year the said Earl of Strafford speaking of an Order of the said Council-Table of that Realm made in the time of King James which concerned a Lease which the said Earl of Corke claimed in certain Rectories or Tythes which the said Earl of Corke alledged to be of no force said that he would make the said Earl and all Ireland know that so long as he had the Government there any Act of State there made or to be made should be as binding to the Subjects of that Kingdom as an Act of Parliament and did question the said Earl of Corke in the Eastle Chamber there upon pretence of breach of the said Order of Council-Table and did sundry other times and upon sundry other occasions by his Words and Spéeches Arrogate to himself a Power above the Fundamental Laws and Established Government of that Kingdom and scorned the said Laws and Established Government ONE of the Managers opened the 4th Article and said The former Articles shew my Lord of Straffords Words this his Actions This Article concerns my Lord of Corke's being disseized of an Impropriate Rectory upon a Paper Petition to my Lord of Strafford and referred to the Council-Table the Earl of Strafford saying upon the questioning of the Proceedings thereupon That neither Law nor Lawyers should question or dispute his Orders an Order of Council-Board in King Iames his time enjoyning That no Parson Patron or Ordinary should make a Lease for longer time than the life of the Incumbent was made use of as a ground to dispossess the Earl of Corke In the first place We desire to open the Proceedings at Council-Table before my Lord of Straffords time viz. That in no case concerning Land no Decree hath been there made to bind up the party for remedy at Law The Lord Ranulagh being interrogated whether by the course of Proceedings at Council-Table the Deputy and Council have determined Title of Land and Possession and interrupted the parties to proceed at Law He Answered That he hath observed the course of the Board for 22 years and the course was That if Title of Land between party and party were in debate It was commonly dismissed from the Board with a leading order to be tried by course of Common Law Being asked whether a Deputy alone hath determined private Interest He Answered That he cannot positively say whether it were done privately but to the best of his remembrance he knows not that ever any Deputy determined any matter of private Interest but brought it to the Board though by reference or private proceeding it might have proceeded before it came to the Board My Lord of Strafford desired he might be asked whether he ever knew that any matter of Inheritance was ever by himself and the Council determined whilst he was Governour there that was barely Title of Land and nothing else He Answered And desired to explain himself concerning the former That Causes of the Church and matters of Plantations were resolved in former Deputies times to be dispatched at the Board And for the latter question he never knew matter of Title determined at the Board but in Causes of the Church and Plantations My Lord of Strafford desired he might be asked whether as President of Connaught he did not familiarly on Paper Petitions rule all things in the same nature as the Deputy on Petitions to him The Fifth day Friday March 26. 1641. AFter consideration of this matter by their Lordships it was resolved in the Upper-house That my Lord Ranulagh ought not to be examined on that point it tending to an Accusation of himself The Earl of Corke being Sworn and questioned touching my Lord of Straffords words to him upon his excepting against the Orders made upon the Petition touching the said Rectory His Lordship Answered That he had been in Possession as Tenant of the Crown thirty five years of a Rectory and certain Tythes in the County of Tiperany for which he paid a yearly Rent and having enjoyed it so long my Lord presented to it Arthur Gwyn that had been his Coach-mans Groom That when he heard of it he went to my Lord privately and told his Lordship that he was His Majesties Farmer of those Tythes and paid a Rent and desired he might not be sued for them in the Council-Chamber but if a Suit must be ommenced that it might be in the proper Court the Exchequer That my Lord told him he should Answer it there That he did so and my Lord ordered it against him That a Commission went down and Examinations were taken And after my Lord had ordered it against him an Order of course was set down that Gwyn should have them till I recovered them by course of Law That thereupon I brought an Action against him and his Tenants who were Arrested and came to Dublin and then went to my Lord and Dr. Bramhill Bishop of Derry That thereupon I was sent for before my Lord Lieutenant that then was and my Lord Lieutenant told me Sir You have taken out Writs against Gwyn to whom I Ordered the Tythes of the Rectory I confest I had and desired to know why he aked me so adding that I am sure your Lordship will not take away my Possession by a Paper Bill without Trial. That my Lord of Strafford answered call in your Writs or if you will not I will clap you in the Castle For I tell you I will not have my Orders disputed by Law nor Lawyers Gwyn was a poor man and if he should get the Rents of the Impropriation into his hands I could not get them again And therefore I desired security That if by course of Law I should recover it I might have it again That my Lord of Strafford thereupon said It was very fit and just but the Order being brought unto me I said there was no such thing in the Order Being desired by the Earl of Strafford to repeat the last over again I say that
and acknowledged by my Lord of Corke to be Sir Paul Davis's hand Upon reading whereof my Lord of Strafford observed That it appears to be a Church-Cause That the Order was just and that the Clause for the Plaintiffs giving of Security to answer the mean Profits which my Lord of Corke said was struck out of the Order and for my Lord of Corke's liberty to bring his Action at Law only he was limited to prosecute it within a year Mr. Leake was produced by my Lord of Strafford and being asked what Authority he hath known the Council-Board in Ireland to exercise both before my Lord of Strafford's coming thither and since in Causes of the Church and Plantation and concerning Contempts to Proclamations and Acts of State and what Countryman he is He Answered That his name is Leake of Leake in the County of Nottingham where he said his Family hath continued 400 years That it is 14 years since he went into Ireland and before this Lords-Deputies time and before that time he did not observe any restraint from Injunctions on the Council-Board till the Instructions published and they did stay them That they proceeded by Injunction Process Bill Answer Examination and other Courses as in the Chancery of England And since the same course hath been held And my Lord of Strafford hath had in the Castle-Chamber divers Causes of Law argued before him concerning the Church wherein one Chadwick and divers others were convented thirty times when he the Examinant was there and heard them twenty he is sure but he thinks thirty But my Lord of Strafford did forbear to give Sentence till he heard these Causes argued That 14 years he hath been very well versed in that Kingdom that he hath known Injunctions have gone out from thence to stay Proceedings in Causes where they have Power of Jurisdiction that he hath known my Lord Chancellor Loftus that was to grant an Injunction without Bill and before any Complaint depended before him and that he himself had the Injunction granted Being asked about the time of his going into Ireland He said he went betwixt 1627. and 1628. Whence observe that the Witness hath made an Observation of the Instructions five years before he came into Ireland Being asked some other questions touching the occasion of his going into Ireland and how he came to take notice of the Proceedings there He Answered He hath been there at several times to pursue some Tenants of his that fled into Ireland and by reason of the Suits and Petitions he prosecuted in his own Right he had occasion to enquire after Proceedings there having been there for the most part of 14 years To the Statute of 28 H. 6. which the Commons have pressed as a Rule for the reâ—ing of Causes to their proper Courts and to annihilate all these Proceedings before the Deputy and Council and before the Deputy alone in his particular Jurisdiction in the nature of a Court of Requests in England I reserve my self to have my Council give satisfaction therein Only desire your Lordships to observe the last Clause saving the King's Prerogative These Proceedings are not against Magna Charta they being according to the Laws and Customs of the Land though it be not the Custom of England And if he hath been an Innovator it hath been to conform Ireland by all ways he could in Religion and Laws to the better and more excellent Pattern of England To the Objection made against Mr. Gwyn he is altogether unknown to me only was recommended to me and here is a Certificate that Gwyn is Master of Arts but that was not read nor insisted on To the matter of words Charged upon him He Answered That words without Fact can be no matter of Treason though of a higher nature then these That words are to be charged within a limited time 1 E. 6. Ca. 12. whereby it is provided That none shall be Impeached concerning Treason for words only if the party being within the Realm be not accused within thirty days If out of the Realm within six months c. Which Proviso his Lordship read and reserved to his Council farther to apply it For the words spoken to my Lord of Corke That neither Law nor Lawyers should dispute my Orders I conceive I might justifie the speaking of them if the Orders and Acts of State be justly warrantable and honourably made Yet it is improbable I should speak the words when the Order refers it self to Law If they were spoken they are at the highest indiscreet and foolish and it is a heavy thing to punish me for not being wiser than God Almighty hath made me For the last words That I would make the said Earl and all Ireland know That so long as I had Government there An Act of State made or to be made should be as binding as an Act of Parliament I observe my Lord of Corke's quick memory that could swear them roundly without missing a letter or sillable as they are laid in the Charge That these words are only in the Charge and so only to be answered to And for Answer I say That in case of an Act done they may be brought collaterally as an inducement to prove the intention But the Act must be proved before they can touch me as of Treason My Lord of Corke is a single Witness and by a Proviso 1 E. 6 Ca. 12. no person after the first of February then following is to be Arraigned c. of Treason c. for any words to be spoken after the said first of February unless the Offendor be accused by two sufficient Witnesses or should without violence confess them To the words spoken of by the other Witnesses being the same in effect I am not to answer being extrajudicially proved and spoken in other places and times than I am Charged withall Yet I think they might be fairly interpreted For if an Act of State be not made against an Act of Parliament or a Fundamental Law of the Land but consistent with it and made by way of provision for remedying some present Mischief in the Common-wealth till the Parliament may provide Redress for it They are as binding during the time they are in force as an Act of Parliament though I confess the Comparison is not good because they be made according to Law and Justice according to the Fundamental Laws of the Land wherein the Prerogative of the Crown hath a part as well as the Property of the Subject For if the Propriety of the Subject as it is and God forbid but it should continue be the second undoubtedly the Prerogative of the Crown is the first Table of that Fundamental Law and hath something more imprinted upon it For if it hath a divinity imprinted upon it it is God's Annointed It is he that gives the Powers And Kings are as Gods on Earth higher Prerogatives than can be said or found to be spoken of the Propriety or Liberty of
of an Arbitrary Power of Jurisdiction in a case of Land without any former President wherein if he be justifiable he may as well riding on the High-way determine any mans Estate and added That if my Lord of Strafford insist on this they shall prove it not only in this but in twenty more of this condition on the Reply My Lord of Strafford desiring they might bring their Proofs at once The Manager Answered That they should prove an Act of the same Nature but of a higher strain concerning a Peer of the Realm for he chased such Lions But my Lord of Strafford desiring they might be kept to that within the Charge His Lordship began his Defence in substance as followeth I confess I am Charged with Treason by the Honourable House of Commons and that is my greatest grief for if it were not an Arrow sent out of that Quiver it would not be so heavy as it is but as it comes from them it pierces my heart through not with Guilt yet with Grief that in my Grey hairs I should be mis-understood by the Companions of my Youth with whom I have formerly spent so much time If the Decree be just as it is most just I hope it will go very far in the Case That whereas it is said it was against a Peer Justice excepts not persons and I know no Priviledge Peers have in point of possession of Land above common persons The Act of Parliament read the other day against which it is supposed to be made I conceive it to be the Statute in H. 6. time and desire your Lordships to remember that by the last words the King's Prerogative is saved I have done nothing contrary to the Instructions in King Iames his time nor the Proclamation nor any thing but according to the Power of former Deputies I acknowledge my Answer is mistaken in saying the Cause depended formerly in the Chancery which was not out of cunning but a meer failing of memory I desire my Commission may be read whereby it will appear I had Power to do that for which I am now questioned The Commission was read whereby he had Authority to proceed Secundum consuetudines terrae c. From whence he observed That having so great a Power the receiving of a Petition and giving Relief to a poor body should not be so great a fault being at the most but the exceeding of a Jurisdiction but by no Construction can be made Treason That yet this is no exceeding of a Jurisdiction but was a Power always in the Deputies before his time and warranted To prove it he produced the printed Instructions whereby the Deputy and Council-Table are forbid to meddle with common businesses within Cognizance of ordinary Courts nor alter possession of Land nor make private Orders or Hearings nor make Injunctions for staying Suits in any Civil Cause Which shews that that course was in practise before the Instructions took it away viz. to alter Possessions to grant Injunctions c. To prove by Witnesses that this Power was always exercised by the Deputy in the nature of a Court of Requests in England He offered my Lord Primate of Armagh his Deposition being taken by reason of his sickness by vertue of an Order of their Lordships but for that the Commons had liberty by that Order to cross-examine and yet had no notice thereof or of the Depositions so taken the using of these Depositions was waved after much debate till the next day in the mean time the Commons may cross-examine Henry Dillon asked Whether Petitions have been usually preferred to the Deputies and in how many Governors time he hath known it to be so That these Paper-Petitions have been preferred He Answered His Father had a Lease during his own life and his Wives and the longer liver of them and fifteen years after to his Executors and Administrators which he the said Henry Dillon being come to full age enquired into and looking upon his Fathers Evidences he found a business there depending between Sir Patrick Plaintiff and his Father Defendant before my Lord Chichester in the time of his Government and he found several Orders under my Lord Chichesters Hand in that Cause that he being Executor to Maurice Fitzgerard and having occasion to peruse his Writings to see what Debts were due to him he found among them several Orders of my Lord Grandison's time one Petition of Fitzgerard as well for Debts as for Land That in the time of my Lord Faulkland he observed and hath seen several Orders made by his Lordship and one made on behalf of his Sister Mary Dillon for a Portion paid by his Father and he recovered the portion and received the Money That in the time of my Lord of Corke and Lord of Elyes being Governors there was a Petition preferred against him by my Lord of Longford for a Horse taken by him the said Henry Dillon as Sheriff of the County of Longford pretending it to be a stray and belonging to His Majesty and triable as he conceived in the Exchequer and that he did appear but my Lord of Longford died before Examination Being asked Whether the Causes were before the Deputy alone or the Deputy and Council He Answered That in the time of my Lord Chichester he knows not whether they were before the Deputy alone but he found only my Lord Chichester's Hand to the Orders In my Lord Grandison's time he saw his Hand only but where the Causes depended he knows not But that in my Lord Faulkland's time was only by my Lord-Deputy That of my Lord Corkes and Lord of Elyes he remembers not whether it was before their Lordships and the Council but the way he was called to Answer was by Pursevant before he had notice of the Suit Being asked Whether Examinations were taken He Answered That in the Case of his Sister he conceives there were Examinations taken upon Oath And that in the Cause before my Lord of Corke and Lord of Ely the Attachment was under the Hands of the two Lords Justices alone Being asked on the Managers motion Whether he hath any of those Orders to shew He Answered He knows not whether those in my Lord Chichester's time were delivered to my Lord Dun on composing the Difference or in his Custody Robert Lord Dillon was asked What he heard my Lord Grandison say in maintenance of this Judicature by my Lord-Deputy alone He Answered That he heard my Lord Grandison himself say nothing of it but he heard by others that he pretended to it as a Judicature belōnging to the Sword Being asked what he hath known of the practice of this Court before the Lord Deputy alone before how many Deputies and upon what occasions He Answered That he hath seen divers Orders of Deputies or Petitions singly signed by themselves and no other hand but the Deputies Being asked in how many Deputies times He Answered That he hath seen of my Lord Faulklands
and Lord Grandisons and to his best remembrance but he will not peremptorily say it of my Lord Chichesters Being asked of the Earl of Bathes motion whether he hath known them to proceed upon Petition for matters of Land He Answered He never knew any Being asked on Mr. Maynards motion whether they were Orders of Reference or by consent He Answered He remembers one more particularly and it was an Order of my Lord of Faulklands of reference to my Lord Angier that was Master of the Rolls and was for a Debt Being asked on my Lord of Straffords motion whether Sir Paul Davis Clerk of the Council do not ordinarily examine on Oath and thereupon Causes come to publication He Answered The Clerk of the Council hath a Commission for taking Oath and wheresoever the Deputy requires he is to take Oath but whether de facto he took Oath on those former Orders he remembers not And whether he takes Oath in things determined by the Deputy alone he knows nothing of it But it is the common course of proceedings when there is an Order for an Attachment an Oath is taken of course that the party is in contempt Being asked on Mr. Whitlocks motion how anciently Commission hath been granted to the Clerk of the Council to take an Oath He Answered He doth not know but knoweth that since he had the Honour to sit at the Board they have had them and that is 12 or 13 years Being asked whether he hath known in matters of Equity or Title of Land any determination by any other Deputy alone And whether my Lord of Strafford hath not done it in many Cases He answered to the first That he doth not remember any particular Case of it To the second That he never knew my Lord of Strafford with his Remembrance meddle with matters of Law but for matters of Equity to his Remembrance he hath And this my Lord of Strafford confessed this being in the Court of Requests is to the Chancery To prove that the Clerks of the Council have power to examine on Oath an Order was read to the Lord Chancellor from the Lord Faulkland for drawing up a Commission to enable Sir William Usher for taking Affidavits and ministring Oaths in all Causes wherein the Lord Deputy or the Board c. His Lordship came to shew that the Instructions were so much mistaken that they were never observed by the Deputy Judges of Assize Presidents of Provincial c. nor could the poor Irish be debarred from remedy on Petitions without occasioning an universal out-cry being not acquainted with Legal forms and beggarly and the man that came against my Lord Mountnorris was in forma Pauperis To prove this my Lord of Straffords Book of Entries was mentioned and an Order of my Lord Faulklands made in Iune 1629. which is after the Instructions being in 1622. and being affirmed by my Lord Wilmott to be under my Lord Faulklands hand it was read Containing a Petition which set forth the Petitioners disturbance in his Possession of certain Lands by Sir Iames Fitzgerard contrary to a former Order and assaulting and beating the Petitioner and his Tenants c. And my Lord of Faulklands Warrant thereupon for Sir Iames his appearance to Answer the Contempt and for the Sheriffs keeping the Petitioner in possession He produced another Order of my Lord of Faulklands August 20. 1626. being for Attaching divers persons that had not paid Provisions for the Deputies Houshold He produced another Order made on Walter Dennotts Petition October 1624. for direction to certain Debtors to pay some moneys due Being a Warrant to examine the truth of the Plaintiffs demands and a Command to the Debtors to pay what 's due or give better Security else to appear to shew cause to the contrary the same being grounded upon Letters out of England in the Petitioners behalf He produced an Order of my Lord of Corke and Lord of Ely affirmed by the Lord Corke to be under his hand on Petition of Henry Iawant The Order being a Reference to the Lord Primate and to take Order for the Petitioners Relief as by a former Order of Reference was directed And whereas it may be objected that these were in Church Causes or Plantation Causes His Lordship observed That these Orders were made by the Deputy and Justices alone without the Council though by the Instructions the Deputy ought not to meddle with such Causes without the Council He then offered to shew that this Practice of hearing business on Paper Petitions is used by the Presidents in their Provincial Courts and by the Judges in their Circuits by Commissions from the Deputy whence his Lordship observed That if the Deputies have Power to Authorize they have likewise Power to Execute and he offered to this purpose my Lord Ranulagh's Answer at Council-Board under Mr. Mewtis his hand Here the Manager observed That my Lord of Strafford is charged with Exorbitant using of the Law and cannot be justified with others breaking of the Law besides it is neither in the Charge nor in his Answer My Lord of Strafford answered That he offered this only to shew that he is no Innovator of the Law further than others before him and to shew that the Instructions were mistaken in that point and could not be observed nor can they without much detriment to the Commonwealth yea that they have broken them and that he only hath observed them And so this matter was laid aside as not fully pertinent to the Charge His Lordship in the next place observed That as the Case stands with the Government and People of Ireland there is a necessity that this Power that hath been thus at all times in the Deputies should still remain there for relief of the poorer sort of People who are not able to undergo the long Circuit of Legal Proceedings nor are acquainted with them and must be drawn to it by Degrees and that the Plaintiff in this Cause was a Suitor in forma pauperis That it is a great assistance to the Merchants where they may recover their Debts suddenly and not lose their occasions and their benefit by increase of Trade That some Reports being raised as if he had neglected the poorer sort of People and not given Redress as former Deputies have done he advertised it over to His Majesty and fully informed Him of the Proceedings and Instructions and desired His Majesties Pleasure which was declared by a Letter under His Majesties Signet received October 6. the Ninth year of the King and to himself directed which was read Wherein recital is made of the Instructions 1622. and particularly in the point of Judicature by the Deputies That it is necessary to uphold such Power especially for relief of the poorer sort there as formerly had been used And Power is thereby to him given notwithstanding any former Directions Proclamation or Restraint to hear and determine such Causes as shall be brought before him
Asked on M r Whitlocks Motion who were those that took it so chearfully And whether the Bishops were not more chearful then others He Answered That indeed he observed no Reluctancy My Lord of Strafford here added That he speaks it truly to the honor of that Nation be it spoken the Oath was taken with much chearfulness and not any man made scruple in the whole business to his understanding save only Sir Iames Mountgomery but took it with all the readiness in the World This is as true as he lives and he thinks he speaks it for their honor and were he one of the Temporal men in that kind he should be very unwilling to be asked whether the Bishops had been more ready to give Allegiance to His Majesty than himself and he thinks he that asked the question doth them a great deal of prejudice in it Finding them thus prepared he was glad of it and they being willing to prefer such a Petition he went to them and served them with all willingness as he had reason The Petition was cheerfully brought to him to be looked over and to have his opinion how he liked it It was brought him by my Lord Mountgomery Sir Iames Mountgomery's Brother and some others whom he remembers not But these words he remembers particularly in it An offering of their Lives and Fortunes for vindicating the Authority of Regal Power which he said was too general and though they intended it well might be turned too strictly on them and therefore he desired it might be qualified with these words In equal manner and measure with other His Majesties Subjects and the words were put in by him as he is sure my Lord Mountgomery would justifie The Petition was read and the Act of State wherein it is recited being in substance as followeth By the Lord-Deputy and Council WENTWORTH Where we have lately made an Act of Council in these words WHereas divers Lords Spiritual and Temporal Knights and others inhabiting in this Kingdom have lately exhibited a Petition to us in these words following To the Right Honourable the Lord Deputy and Council c. The Humble Petition of c. The Petition recites The horror apprehended by the Petitioners His Majesties Subjects of the Scotish Nation inhabiting in Ireland for the Covenant sworn by some of their Countreymen in Scotland without His Majesties Authority and Consent Their dislike therof and their consideration that the causes of that action may be understood to reflect on the Petitioners though innocent They crave leave to vindicate themselves from so great a Contagion and desire his Lordship to prescribe a way by Oath or otherwise to free themselves from these proceedings to declare their acknowledgement of the Kings Regal Power and their dislike of that Covenant and of all other Covenants entred into c. without His Majesties Regal Authority which they are desirous to manifest by offering their lives and fortunes to vindicate the honor c. of their Sovereign which they are ready to do in equal manner and measure with other His Majesties Subjects c. and divers names were to the said Petition subscribed In consideration of which Petition we cannot but commend the wisdom of the Petitioners which we will not fail humbly to represent to His Majesty and for that we know many of this Kingdom have expressed good affection to His Majesty and His Service and dislike those disorders We hold it fit c. to free them the better from the Crimes and Scandals which their Countrey-men have gone into as also to free them from all prejudice and to approve to the King and to the whole world their Allegiance to him and his Regal Power and the dislike of that unlawful Oath and Covenant We do therefore ordain That all and every person of the Scotch Nation that inhabit or have Estates or any Houses Lands Tenements or Hereditaments within Ireland shall take the Oath herein expressed on the Holy Evangelists on pain of His Majesties High-displeasure The tenor of which Oath follows c. To several seect persons c. Authorizing them to call before them and administer the Oath to every person of the Scotch Nation c. At such time and place c. And such Instructions as shall be in that behalf given by the Deputy and Council c. And to certifie the names of all that take the Oath and if any refuse to certifie their Names Quality and Residences to the Lord Deputy c. And there is a Command that all of the Scotch Nation do appear before the said Commissioners at times by them to be appointed and to take the said Oath before them and that all persons may have due notice we think fit this be published Dated May 1639. To prove a design of seizing the Castle of Knock-Fergus my Lord of Strafford desired Mr. Slingsby might be examined and being Interrogated He Answered That about the time when it was supposed the King was in the Field of Berwick there was an Advertisement from Knock-Fergus that one Trueman had writ a Letter for betraying of the Castle there the party that sent the discovery was to be employed in the Letter and he enformed there were the hands of Twenty that should have subscribed it the Letter was conceived to be voluntarily from Trueman and not sollicited out of Scotland Trueman was sent to Dublin and examined and sent back to be tryed in the Countrey and there he received his Tryal and was Hanged Drawn and Quartered Being asked of what Nation he was He says he doth not know of what Nation but he supposes he was an Englishman For his further justification he saith at the same time there was the like Oath and Proceeding here in England The Copy of which Oath now read being affirmed by Mr. Ralton to be a true Copy 5 Iune 1639. A Copy of an Oath tendered to some of the Scotish Nation resident here in England as it is entred in the Scotish Book being in substance IN Doe faithfully swear profess and promise that I will faithfully obey my Sovereign Lord King CHARLES c. and defend and maintain His Royal Authority and that I will not bear Arms nor do any rebellious Act against him nor profess against any His Royal Commands c. And that I will not enter into any Covenant or Bond c. Of mutual Defence or Assistance against any person c. or into any Covenant Bond of mutual defence or assistance whatsoever without His Majesties Sovereign and Regal Authority And I do renounce and abjure all Covenants contrary to what is here sworn professed and promised And he submits it to their Lordships Wisdom and Justice what offence this had been for a Deputy of Ireland in a time thus conditioned for securing the publique peace of that Kingdom where he serves the Crown upon such apprehensions as these fairly without any constraint or violence offered to endeavour by such a manner of
with relation to action For these be Counsels and if a Man shall Counsel the death of the King Will any Man doubt whether this be Treason surely no man will doubt it that knowes the Laws of England The Treason is not in his words but in his wicked Counsels For under favor if it be true that he spake them they may be called wicked and that it is true they have offered proof and so he left it to their Lordships Mr. Glyn desired to add a word it concerning the Kingdom and Peers Their Lordships observe how my Lord of Strafford stands questioned for subverting of the Laws and for designing to introduce an Arbitrary Government the other day his design appeared in the exercising of a Tyrannical Power over the Persons Estates and Liberties of the Kings Subjects and though a design was in practice and something put in execution yet there was something left whereby that Treason might be raised to a higher strain For that proofs were produced the other day the exercise of this Tyrannical power in his person which was the stopping of the Streams of Justice but the Fountain of Justice was still uncorrupted and hope left and God be thanked we have hope still But this dayes work is to prove That he ascended the Throne and by his ill Counsels the Venome he had hatcht in his own heart he endeavored to infuse into the Kings Person to make Him of the same opinion with himself and that is to endeavor to corrupt the Fountain But God be thanked he hath met with a Gracious King upon whom he cannot prevaile The words laid to his Charge are very many That he should tell the King he was Absolved from all Rules of Government and that he had an Army in Ireland which he might employ to reduce this Kingdom The latter part of the words he hath endeavoured to answer and the former part proved by positive Witnesses which he hath not given answer to For the latter that concerns the Irish Army Mr. Glynn said He shall not need to put their Lordships in mind of any thing said but whereas my Lord sayes They are proved by one Witness only if your Lordships revise their Notes they shall find them prov'd by many Witnesses When he was not accused by the Commons he tells Sir William Pennyman at York he did intend to bring the Army into England but there was Vox populi and that 's a horrid Witness My Lord Cottington one of the Honourable persons present when the words were spoken testifies to their Lordships That he remembers my Lord of Strafford told the King That after things were setled he was bound to repair the property of the Subject and this under favour proves something for if some Counsel and advice were not given that there should be an invasion on the property what should engage him to tell the King he should restore it Here my Lord Cottington explained himself saying That his meaning was he hath often heard my Lord say The King and People would never be happy till there was a good agreement Mr. Glynn proeceded that if their Lordships please to look on my Lord of Straffords Interrogatory they shall find it asked his Lordship Whether he did not tell the King that he should make restitution of the Subjects propertie when the danger was over and why should his Conscience aske such a question unless there were Counsel given to invade the propriety of the Subject Your Lordships remember the words of Sir George Wentworth which Mr. Glynn said he will not repeat and when my Lord was fixed by the words of his Brother he said That tho he be my Brother I do not use to communicate my Counsels to him and that I am on my oath to conceal yet this great Counsel he did impart to Mr. Slingsby for his own purpose and to Sir William Pennyman And so having spoken to the latter part of the words the reducing of the Subjects of England by the Irish Army to shew that it stands not only on a single proof but if the whole be recollected together there be many things concurring to the positive proof thereof Mr. Glynn put their Lordships in mind of the other words to which two great Witnesses concurr and no Answer at all is given viz. That the Parliament denyed Supply and the King is loose and absolved from all rules of Government put the other words out of doors as they are not if the King be loose from all rules of Government is he not loose to doe what he will And Mr. Glynn added That he must needs give Answer to something that fell from my Lord concerning other words that they were words of Discourse and what he speaks at his Bed or his Table or in private Discourse he thinks they should not be brought against him But Mr. Glynn besought their Lordships to remember that if my Lord speaks the words as a Privy Counsellor speaking to the King concerning the Subjects property compare these words with the other Extermination and then see what the Case is The last thing in his Defence is as high as the Charge it self He is charged That being a Privy Counsellor and entrusted by the King and a man of such Eminence he should indeavour to infuse into the Kings Sacred Person such dangerous Counsels tending to the destruction of the Law and Government and consequently of King and Subject And in the close my Lord of Strafford put their Lordships in mind what a dangerous thing it is for one of the Kings Counsel to be charged for Words spoken at Council-Table to speak this in such a Presence before the Peers and Commons of the Realm that a Privy Counsellor who ought to be clear and candid is not to be questioned though he infuse dangerous Counsels That it is justification of his own Act and so great that he knows not how my Lord could say greater and so he said he hath no more to say their Lordships had heard the Proofs and Defence and comparing them together he doubts not but their Lordships are satisfied that the Commons had just cause to do what they have done My L of Strafford desired to answer one thing the Gentleman that spake last said touching his revealing the Kings Counsels to Mr. Slingsby and others he would be loth to be charged with breaking his Duty to God and the King but where he hath Power and Liberty for as concerning the imployment of that Army the King left it wholly to him to acquaint whom he thought fit for the bettering of the service But the thing that makes him rise is to represent to their Lordships that he hath been there constantly in a great deal of weakness and infirmity since 7 or 8 of the clock and now it is 5. That his Speech and Voice are spent and it is not possible for him to come here to morrow and therefore he most humbly besought their Lordships to
there is nothing at all of it that I am to Answer it being wholly done by the Order of Chancery and I having no more to do with it then any man that hears it the Matter that stayes with me in this Article is the alleadged Warrant to Mr. Savill Sergeant at Armes and the Execution of it for that I shall humbly beseech your Lordships I may mind you with all humility that that Warrant is not shewed and I do think that my Lords the Judges do in the Tryals before them observe that Deeds are to prove themselves in ordinary Tryals betwixt Men and Men Now how much more in a Tryal for life and which is more than that though my Misfortune will have me to own it in the Tryal of a Peer The Witnesses my Lords say They have seen such a Warrant But no Witnesse sayes he knowes it and will Swear it to be my Hand and Seal or that I set my Hand or Seal to it for it may be Counterfeited for any thing they know For Mr. Savill upon Oath I thought under Favour he ought not to be admitted against me for he Swears directly to justifie himself for if there be no such Warrant he is answerable for the Fact not I. But my Lords admit there were such a Warrant I humbly conceive I gave your Lordships a very clear and full Answer to it I shewed you and proved it as I conceive that the Sessing of Soldiers hath been a Coercive means used in Ireland alwayes to enforce obedience to the Kings Authority I proved it to have been used to fetch in the Kings Rents of all kinds Contributions Compositions and Exchequer Rents I proved it to have been used to bring in Offenders and Rebels and as my Lord Ranalagh deposes for any Unjustifiable Act. Sir Arthur Terringham for a small Debt which appears not to be the Kings Debt My Lords nothing at all is proved against it but Negatively the Witnesses say they did not know such a thing they had not heard the like and I think none of your Lordships had before this Cause and yet that thing might be too And my Lords I beseech your Lordships How should it be not Treason to Assess Soldiers for the Kings Debts and yet the Assessing of Soldiers on the Contempt of the Kings Authority should be Treason for certainly the Kings Authority is of far more Dignity and more respect is to be had to it then the getting of a few poor Debts and why it should be Treason in one Case and not in another methinks it is very strange My Lords in the next place I conceive that not in any Construction this can be said to be a Levying of War against the King and His People being but the Imployment of two or three Soldiers to procure obedience to His Majesties Government because as I conceive likewise I had Commission to make War as I saw Cause for punishing the Rebels and securing the Publick Peace and therefore How can I be charged with that I have power to do The worst that can be made of it is an absurd execution of a Power but to make it Treason when I had Commission and Liberty so to do methinks that is very hard And it was no absurd execution of a Power under favour neither when I had the Precedent of all the former Deputies and Lieutenants in the Case My Lords it was never Complained of all the while I was there for ought appears to your Lordships so that it seems there was no great Innovation nor Inconvenience for if there were I should have heard of it But the Statute 11 E. 1. ca. 7. sets a penalty upon any Subject that shall Assess without the Deputies Authority Now I do most humbly beseech your Lordships that you would be pleased to remember that and let me know how it should be but Penal in a Common person to do it and yet Treason in a Deputy My Lords I shall likewise humbly mind your Lordships for the Statute or rather two Statutes as I take it whereby I conceive this Statute that made a Treason in Ireland was repealed But howsoever the practice in all time hath gone quite contrary to that Statute and the best Interpretation of Law is the Practice of Law and therefore the Practice having been otherwise it is an Argument very strong and prevalent that the Deputy as Chief Governor was never intended to be Concluded within that Act nor never to be brought in by General Words onely And that this should be a Levying of War against the King within the Statute of 25 E. 3. in England surely I conceive it cannot be for the Burning of Towns the Taking of Forts Killing and Slaying that I conceive to be a Levying of War but this is a strange Levying of War with two or three Soldiers to rest in Peace and Quietness eating on Contemners onely and not Killing and Slaying and all to procure Obedience to the King not in Disobedience to His Command If to lie upon them and eate be High-Treason in this Case What shall become of a great Company of good Fellowes that at this time eate at the Charge of the Country No my Lords This in the Case of a private Man had been but a Forcible Entry or a Ryot at the most if a man had done the same thing Mr. Savil did of his own Authority without the Deputy it had been but a Force and Ryot and How shall this be in my Case High Treason The next Charge in that Case is concerning a Warrant to one Piggot another Sergeant at Armes and the great and crying Miscarriages and Misimployments of such a War if there had been any it was when I as your Lordships may please to remember was out of Ireland and that was the Case of Bern a very Foule Misdemeanor as it proved But my Lords I being out of the Kingdom and no such Warrant shown I conceive I am absolutely dismissed as unto that and have nothing to Answer for it there was nothing done while I was in the Kingdom there is no Warrant of mine shown therefore I conceive I stand clear of that likewise But admit there were such a Warrant the Answer goes to that as to the test and certainly I hope will fully acquit me of this Fifteenth Article as Treason And so I must in humility submit to your Lordships wiser and better Judgments The next Statute Treason is an Intendment or Design or what you will have it for bringing over the Irish Army into this Kingdom to reduce it or to do I know not what nor I think no body else for there is no such thing But my Lords for proofe in this Case you have two offered there and no more under favour at all the first proof is the Fears and Doubts of my Lord Ranalaugh that tells you he Fears such a thing and Doubts such a thing My Lords if Fears and Doubts may be sufficient to Condemn me for Treason
dregs of valour sullenness and stubborness which may make them prone to mutinies and discontents But those noble and gallant affections which put men to brave designs and attempts for the preservation or enlargement of a Kingdom they are hardly capable of Shall it be Treason to embase the Kings Coin though but a piece of Twelve-pence or Six-pence and must it not needs be the effect of a greater Treason to embase the Spirits of his Subjects and to set a stamp and character of servitude upon them whereby they shall be disabled to do any thing for the service of the King and Commonwealth The fifth Consideration is this that the exercise of this Arbitrary Government in times of suddain danger by the invasion of an enemy will disable His Majesty to preserve himselfe and His Subjects from that danger This is the only pretence by which the Earl of Strafford and such other mischievous Counsellors would induce His Majesty to make use of it and if it be unfit for such an occasion I know nothing that can be alledged in maintainance of it When War threatens a Kingdom by the coming of a Forreign Enemy it is no time then to discontent the people to make them weary of the present Government and more inclinable to a change The supplies which are to come in this way will be unready uncertain there can be no assurance of them no dependance upon them either for time or proportion And if some Money be gotten in such a way the distractions divisions distempers which this course is apt to produce will be more prejudicial to the publique safety than the Supply can be advantagious to it and of this we have had sufficient experience the last Summer The Sixth That this crime of subverting the Laws and introducing an Arbitrary and Tyrannical Government is contrary to the Pact and Covenant betwixt the King and his People that which was spoken of before was the legal union of Allegiance and Protection this is a personal union by mutual agreement and stipulation confirmed by Oath on both sides The King and his People are obliged to one another in the nearest relations he is a Father and a Child is called in Law pars patris He is the Husband of the Common-wealth they have the same interests they ara inseparable in their condition be it good or evil he is the Head they are the Body there is such an incorporation as cannot be dissolved without the destruction of both When Justice Thorp in Edward the III. time was by the Parliament condemned to death for Bribery the reason of that Judgement is given because he had broke the Kings Oath not that he had broke his own Oath but he had broken the Kings Oath that solemn and great Obligation which is the security of the whole Kingdom If for a Judge to take a small sum in a private Cause was adjudged capital how much greater was this offence whereby the Earl of Strafford hath broken the Kings Oath in the whole course of his Government in Ireland to the prejudice of so many of His Majesties Subjects in their Lives Liberties and Estates and to the danger of all the rest The Doctrine of the Papists Fides non est servanda cum Haereticis is an abominable Doctrine yet that other Tenet more peculiar to the Jesuits is more pernicious whereby Subjects are discharged from their Oath of Allegiance to their Prince whensoever the Pope pleaseth This may be added to make the third no less mischievous and destructive to humane Society than either of the rest That the King is not bound by that Oath which he hath taken to observe the Laws of the Kingdom but may when he sees cause lay Taxes and Burthens upon them without their consent contrary to the Laws and Liberties of the Kingdom This hath been Preached and published by divers And this is that which hath been practised in Ireland by the Earl of Strafford in his Government there and endeavoured to be brought into England by his Counsel here The Seventh is this It is an offence that is contrary to the end of Government The end of Government was to prevent oppressions to limit and restrain the excessive power and violence of great men to open the passages of Justice with indifferency towards all This Arbitrary Power is apt to induce and encourage all kind of insolencies Another end of the Government is to preserve men in their Estates to secure them in their Lives and Liberties but if this design had taken effect and could have been setled in England as it was practised in Ireland no man would have had more certainty in his own then Power would have allowed him but these two have been spoken of before there are two behind more important which have not yet been touched It is the end of Government that Virtue should be cherish'd Vice supprest but where this Arbitrary and unlimited Power is set up a way is open not only for the security but for the advancement and encouragement of evil such men as are apt for the execution and maintenance of this Power are only capable of preferment and others who will not be instruments of any unjust commmands who make a conscience to do nothing against the Laws of the Kingdom and Liberties of the Subject are not only not passable for employment but subject to much jealousie and danger It is the end of Government that all Accidents and Events all Counsels and Designs should be improved to the publique good But this Arbitrary Power is apt to dispose all to the maintainance of it self The wisdome of the Council Table The authority of the Courts of Justice The industry of all the Officers of the Crown have been most carefully exercised in this the Learning of our Divines the Jurisdiction of our Bishops have been moulded and disposed to the same effect which though it were begun before the Earl of Straffords imployment yet it hath been exeedingly furthered and advanced by him Under this colour and pretence of maintaining the King's Power and Prerogative many dangerous practises against the peace and safety of the Kingdom have been undertaken and promoted The increase of Popery and the favours and encouragement of Papists have been and still are a great grievance and danger to the Kingdom The innovation in matters of Religion the Usurpations of the Clergy the manifold burthens and taxations upon the people have been a great cause of our present distempers and disorders and yet those who have been chief furtherers and actors of such mischiefs have had their Credit and Authority from this that they were forward to maintain this power The Earl of Strafford had the first rise of his Greatness from this and in his Apology and Defence as your Lordships have heard this hath had a main part The Royal Power and Majesty of Kings is most Glorious in the Prosperity and happiness of the People the perfection of all things consists in the end
should be reduced by force he gave advice precipitately without hearing the reasons and not concurrent to the Council for an offensive War and putting all together I refer it your Lordships judgement who is the Incendiary for how can it be proved more clearly unless it should appear under his Hand and Seal proved by two or three witnesses Now My Lords how comes this to be his design here the Mystery comes to be unfolded Having thus incensed to the War and ingaged the King to the uttermost and having a Parliament now dissolved without supply he sets up an Idol of his own creation as a means to draw on his design and that was necessity necessity is it that must enforce the King what to do to levy Money to use his Prerogative to raise supplies upon His Subjects without their consent against their Will necessity must be his Argument and this War must be the occasion of that necessity and without that he cannot suggest to the Kings ear or advise this necessity till this be brought to pass And now he hath brought it to pass he began in the One and twentieth Two and twentieth and Three and twentieth Article to perswade the King that necessity hath surprized him by the Parliaments deserting of him that the Parliament had forsaken the King in denying supply and having tryed the affections of His people he was loose and absolved from all rules of Government and had an Army in Ireland which he might employ to reduce this Kingdom That he spake these words to the King part is proved by two concurrent Witnesses that is that having tryed the affections of his people he was now loose and absolved from all rules of Government which words are proved by two witnesses of eminent quality that is my Lord of Northumberland and Sir Henry Vane and truly howsoever my Lord in his speech pretends that the most material words are proved but by one witness it seeming that he held it not a material charge that he counselled the King that he was absolved from all Rules of Government for my part if your Lordships be satisfied those words were proved I could willingly satisfy my own conscience in it and make no great matter to quit the rest for I know not how he could express it in higher terms than that the King was absolved from all rules of Government for then he might do what he would It is true the latter words touching the Irish Army are expresly proved but by one witness Mr. Secretary Vane but are fortified again with such circumstances as make up more than one yea more than two other witnesses if your Lordships will have the patience to have it represented as it is proved For howsoever it be slighted by him if your Lordships will call to mind the words of Sir George Ratcliffe his bosom friend to whom he had contributed without question his advice in all causes the said Sir George Ratcliffe expressed it before and told some of his friends supposing that he never should be called in question and that the power of my Lord of Strafford had been enough to protect any thing he had done and out of the abundance of the heart his mouth spake the King must now want no money if he did no body would pity him now he had his sword in his hand Sir Robert King proves it so My Lord Ranalagh discovered the smoak of the fire that he had just cause to suspect and on good grounds I am sure and if the Commons of England had not just cause to suspect him as I believe he is convinced they had good cause what is the reason this suspition should be entertained at that time my Lord of Strafford being not then questioned for it and yet my Lord Ranalagh should say Shall we turn our Swords upon our own bowels Shall we bring this Army to turn the points of our blades upon that Nation from whence we were all derived and that was before any conference with Mr. Secretary Vane Sir William Penniman himself his own witness and friend says at York before my Lord of Strafford was questioned that there was a common fame of bringing the Army into England and there is something in that surely and after all this to produce one witness that expresly proves the very words spoken in terminis as they be charged if your Lordships put the whole together see whether there be not more than one witness And under favour my Lord Cottington if you call to mind his testimony I must justify he did declare That he heard my Lord of Strafford tell the King That some reparation was to be made to the Subjects property which must inferre he had advised an Invasion upon the property else by no good coherence should a reparation be made And that he testifies this I must affirm and most here will affirm it and I think your Lordships well remember it and that is an addition to it for if your Lordships cast your eye upon the Interrogatory administred to my Lord Admiral and my Lord Cottington that very question is asked so that his own conscience told him he had advised somthing to invade upon the people when he advised to a restitution after things should be setled and so I refer it to your Lordships consideration whether here be not more than one witness by far It is true he makes objections to lessen this testimony First That this Army was to be landed at Ayre in Scotland and not here and this was declared to Sir Thomas Lucas Mr. Slingsby Sir William Penniman and others Secondly That others that were present when the words are supposed to be spoken did not hear any such words For the first Perhaps the Army might be originally intended for Scotland and yet this is no contradiction but he might intend it afterwards for England surely this is no Logick that because it was intended for one place it could never be intended for another place so his allegation may be true and the charge stand true likewise Beside that it was intended originally for Scotland what proof makes he He told several persons of the design but I will be tryed by himself he told some it was for Scotland he told others it was for England and why you should believe his telling on one side more than on the other side I know not though he pretends a reason of his several allegations that the world should not know his design but if you will not believe him one way why should he be believed the other way and if not the other way why the first way For the Second Several persons were present when the words were spoken touching the Irish Army and they were examined and remember not the words but one man may hear though twenty do not hear and this is no contradiction at all for those persons whom he examined the Lord Treasurer Marquis Hamilton my Lord Cottington did not hear the words that are proved
to Sir William Pennyman in pursuance of which he made his Warrant That it was the assent of the Lords of the great Council that this Money should be levied and taking all together whether it fixes it not upon him to be the Author and Instrument it rests in your judgements in point of fact and so I suppose the Seven and twentieth Article rests on him and so I shall conclude the Evidence produced on the behalf of the Commons And now give me leave to put your Lordships in mind of some Evidences offered by my Lord Strafford himself in his Answer and in the passages of his Defence for his clearing and justification but tending directly to his condemnation I will enter upon some passages he mentioned to day and often before When he is charged with invading the Estates of the Peers of the kingdom of Ireland and determining them upon Paper Petitions in an Arbitrary way your Lordships have heard him speak it before and repeat it this day That he did it out of compassion for the more expeditious proceeding on behalfe of the poor against these mighty But then my Lords I beseech you compare some other part of his proceedings Your Lordships remember the business of the Flax which concerns the poor wholly and universally and if compassion had been the rule and direction of his actions towards the poor surely this would have been a just cause to have commiserated them in this case but he exercised his power over them and over them wholly and over them universally and therefore it shews it is not his compassion to the poor nor respect to the rich or mighty that will any way restrain or obstruct his ways to his own Will And thefore you may see what truth there is in his answer by comparing one part of the charge with another when the business of the Flax brought that calamity upon the Kings Subjects that thousands of them perished for lack of Bread and dyed in Ditches Secondly Your Lordships have often heard him use a Rhetorical insinuatian wondring that he should be charged with words and they strained so high as to be made Treason to question his Life and Posterity though the words might be spoken unadvisedly or in discourse or by chance Your Lordships remember the Fifth Article touching his proceedings against my Lord Mountnorris where words were spoken in an ordinary discourse at dinner and slight ones God knows of no consequence at all such as another man would scarce have harkened after and yet my Lord extends them to the taking away of my Lord Mountnorris his life gets a sentence of death against him and that against Law with a high hand in such a manner as I think your Lordships have not heard the like and therefore I beseech you compare one part of his Answer with another and see how ready he is to make use of any thing that may excuse himself and yet when he comes to act his power you see his exercise of it You have heard how he magnifies his Zeal for advancing the Kings Benefit and Revenue and his care of his Service and would shelter and protect himself under it to justify an exorbitant action but if your Lordships call to mind the business of the Customs for Tobacco which in truth were the Kings right and due and a great profit was thereby advanced and he trusted to advance it The King must loose of his former Rents in the case of Custom and received a small Rent in the case of Tobacco my Lord himself in the mean time imbursing such vast sums of Money where is then the discharge of his Trust where is his care to advance the Kings Rents to increase his Revenue Compare that part of his Answer with this and see what credit is to be given to his affirmation My Lords throughout the passages of his discourse he insinuates and never more than this day with the Peers of the Realm magnifying them almost to Idolatry and yet my Lords when he was in his Kingdom in Ireland and had power over them what respect shewed he then to the Peers of the Kingdom when he judged some to death trampled upon others in misery committed them to prison and seized on their Estates where then was the Peerage he now magnifies And to shew it was an insinuation for his own advantage you may remember when there was an unlawful Act to be committed that is the levying of Money in the North What regard had he then to the Peers of the Kingdom when he comes to justify and boulster up High Treason it self under the name and authority of the Great Council where most of the Peers of the Realm then were and so by this time I know what credit your Lordships give to his words spoken when he lies under your Mercy and Power but what do I speak of the Peers of the Kingdom and his using of them My Lords he spared not his Sovereign His Majesty in His whole Defence for being charged with offences of a high nature he justifies those offences under the pretence and under the authority of His Majesty our Gracious King and Sovereign even Murther it self in the Case of Denwit and my Lord Mountnorris Treason it self in the Fifteenth Article by a Command in Ireland and in the Seven and twentieth by a pretended authority from His Majesty in the face of His People he justifies my Lord Mountnorris his sentence by a Letter from His Majesty Denwits Sentence by a Commission from His Majesty and he read three or four clauses to that purpose My Lords my Lord of Strafford doth very well know and if he doth not know it I have a Witness to produce against him which I will not examine but refer it to his own Conscience that is The Petition of Right that the Kings Servants are to serve him according to Law and no otherwise he very well knew if an unlawful act be committed especially to a degree of Treason and Murder the Kings Authority and Warrant produced is no justification at all So then my Lords to mention the Kings name to justify an unlawful act in that way can do him no good and his own understanding knows it may do the King harm if we had not so Gracious a King that no such thing can do harm unto But my Lords to produce the Kings Warrant to justify his actions under his Patent and Command what is it else but so far as in him lies in the face of his people to raise a cloud and exhale a vapour To interpose betwixt the King and his Subjects whereby the splendor of his Glory and Justice cannot be discovered to his people My Lords what is it else when the people make complaint against the Ministers that should execute justice of their oppression and slavery and bondage For the Minister when he is questioned to justify this under the Kings Authority what is it I say but as much as in that Minister lies