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A36769 An argument delivered by Patrick Darcy, esquire by the expresse order of the House of Commons in the Parliament of Ireland, 9 iunii, 1641. Darcy, Patrick, 1598-1668. 1643 (1643) Wing D246; ESTC R17661 61,284 146

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Common-wealth And they say that the matter manner restrictions limitations reservations and other clauses contayned in such grants or licences and the Commissions or Proclamations thereupon and undue execution thereof and severall circumstances may make the same lawfull or unlawfull whereof they are not able to give any certayne resolution before some particular commes in judgement before them neyther are they otherwise able to answer the generall in the particulars of the said question of what in what cases how where and by whom or which of them wherein whosoever desireth further satisfaction he may please to have recourse unto the knowne cases of Monoplies Printed authorities and written Reports and unto the statute of 21. Ia. in England concerning Monopolies and the severall exceptions and limitations therein 6. To the sixt they say they can no otherwise answer then they have already in their answer to the third question for the reasons therein setforth 7. To the seventh they say that a Proclamation or act of State cannot alter the common-law and yet Proclamations are acts of his Majesties prerogative and are and alwayes have beene of great use and that the contemners of such of them as are not against the law are and by the constant practise of the Star-chamber in England have beene punished according the nature of the contempt and course of the said Court and although acts of State are not of force to bind the goods possessions or inheritance of the subject yet they have beene of great use for the setling of the estates of very many subjects in this kingdome as may appeare in the Report of the case of Irish gavelkind in Print And further to that question they cannot answer for the reasons in their answer unto the third question set forth 8. To the eight they say that they know no ordinary rule of law by which the subjects of this kingdome are made subject to Marshall-law in time of peace and that they find the use thereof in time of peace in England complayned off in the petition of right exhibited to his Majestie in the third yeare of his raigne And that they conceive the granting of authority and Commission for execution thereof is derived out of his Majesties Regall and prerogative power for suppressing of suddaine and great insolencies and insurrections among armies or multitudes of armed men lawfully or unlawfully convented together the right use wherof in all times hath beene found most necessary in this kingdome And further to that question they cannot answer for that as they conceive it doth concerne his Majesties Regall power and that the answering of the other part of the question doth properly belong to another profession whereof they have no Cognizance 9. To the ninth they say that as the taking of any Oath before any but such Iudges or persons as have power to give or demaund an Oath for decision of controversies is by most Divin● in most cases counted to be a rash Oath and so an offence against God within the third Commandement so the prescribing and demaunding of a set Oath by any that cannot derive power so to doe from the Crowne where the fountaine of Iustice under God doth reside is an offence against the law of the Land and as for voluntary and extra judiciall Oathes although freely taken before arbitrators or others they say as this kingdome is composed in many particulars as the nature consequence of the cause or the quality of the person who taketh or before whom the same is taken may concerne the Common-wealth or the members therof such taking of such Oathes or proceeding or grounding on such Oath in deciding of controversies according to the severall circumstances that may occurre therein or the prejudice it may introduce to the Common-wealth may be punishable by the Common-law or if it grow unto an height or generall inconvenience to the common-wealth or members thereof in the Castle-chamber For though such an Oath be voluntary yet in most cases it is received by him that doth intend to ground his Iudgment thereon and after the Oath is taken the arbitrator or he that intends to yeeld faith to the party that tooke the Oath doth examine him upon one or more questions upon the said Oath unto the answer whereof hee doth give faith and assent trusting on the said Oath And whereas Oathes by Gods institution were chiefly allowed to bee taken before lawfull Magistrates for ending of controversies yet common experience doth teach in this kingdome that oftentimes orders and acts grounded on such voluntary Oathes beget strife and suits and commonly such orders when they come to bee measured by rules of law or equitie in the Kings Courts become voyde after much expence of time and charge that we say nothing of that that thereby many causes proper to the Kings Courts are drawn ad aliud examen and thereby the Kings justice and Courts often defrauded and declined 10. To the tenth they say that they are not Iudges of rules of policie but of law and that they know no certayne rule of law concerning reducement of fines The same being matters of his Majesties own meere Grace after a man is censured for any offence And that they know no law that none shall be admitted to reducement of his fines or other penalties in the Courts in the question specified untill he confesse the fact for which he was censured But forasmuch as the admittance to a reducement after conviction for an offence is matter of Grace and not Iustice It hath beene the constant course of these Courts both here and in England for cleering of his Majesties justice where the partie will not goe about to cleere himselfe by reversall of the censure or decree not to admit him to that grace untill he hath confessed the justnesse of the sentence pronounced by the Court against him And that the rather for that commonly the ability and disabilitie of the partie doth not appeare in judgement before them but the nature and circumstances of the offence according to which they give sentence against him or them in terrorem after which when the partie shall make the weaknesse of his estate appeare or that the Court is otherwise ascerteyned that they doe of course proportion the censure or penaltie having regard to his estate 11. To the eleventh they say That neither the Iudges of the Kings Bench as they informe us that are of that Court or Iustices of Gaole delivery or of any other Court doe or can by any law they know deny the copies of Indictments of Felony or Treason to the partie only accused as by the said question is demanded 12. To the twelfth they say that where lands are holden of the King by the Knights service in Capite the tenant by the strict course of Law ought in person to doe his homage to the King and untill he hath done his homage the ancient course of the Exchequer hath beene yet is to issue
to this positive question the answer is too generall viz the Parliament is concerned therein and so are two other Courts of Iustice and likewise the Kings prerogative is interested therein wherefore they cannot answer till the matter come in debate and be argued before them The consideration of the Court of Parliament will much conduce to the clearing of this question Co. preface to the fourth Reporte the exposition of Lawes ordinarily belongeth to the Iudges but in maximis difficillimisque causis ad supremum Parliament ' Iudicium Cooke preface to the ninth Report describes that supreame Court in this manner si vetustatem spectes est antiquissima si dignitatem est honoratissima si jurisdictionem est capacissima of this enough the learning is too manifest that it is the Supreame Court nay the primitive of all other Courts to that Court belongs the making altering or regulating of lawes and the correction of all Courts and ministers Looke upon the members of it first the King is the head who is never so great nor so strong as in Parliament where he sits insconced with the hearts of his people the second are all the Lords Spirituall Temporall the third the knights Citizens Burgesses these three doe represent the whole Common-wealth Looke upon the causes for which they are called Circa ardua urgentia negotia Regni looke upon the priviledges of it if any member or members servant thereof bee questioned or any thing ordered against him in any other Court sitting the Parliament or within forty dayes before or after all the proceedings are voyde by the lawes and statutes of this Realme The not clearing of this question is against the Kings prerogative which is never in greater splendor or Majestie then in Parliament and against the whole Common-wealth therein concerned as aforesaid the King hath foure Councels the first is commune concilium which is this Councell secondly Magnum Concilium which is the Councell of his Lords thirdly the privie Councell for matters of estate fourthly the Iudges of his law Co. institut 110. a. Then by what law or use can the inferiour of these foure Councels question the first Supreame and mother Councell I know not the state of the question considered which is of Burroughs who anciently and recently sent to the Parliament by the same law that one member may bee questioned forty eight members may bee questioned as was done in our case in one day six such dayes may take away the whole house of Commons and consequently Parliaments especially as this case was for upon the returne of the first summons foure and twenty Corporations were seized the learning therefore is new that it should rest in the discretion of the Sheriffes who might make unfaithfull returnes and of three Barons in the Exchequer who have no infallibilitie to overthrow Parliaments the best Constitutions in the world Search hath beene made in the two bookes of Entries in old Natura brevium and in all the yeare bookes that are printed there is not one president that in any time ever so badde such à Quo-warranto was brought in Co. entries 527. a à Quo-warranto was brought against Christopher Helden and others to shew cause why they claymed such a Borrough c. which is nothing to our purpose the quo-warrantoes in the question and those which were in the Exchequer did admit them Borroughs and yet required them to shew cause why they sent Burgesses to the Parliament this is oppositum in objecto to admit them Burgesses and to question their power to send Burgesses which were formerly both anciently and recently so admitted in Parliament Master Littleton the first booke we reade cleares this question sectione 164. There are ancient Townes called Borroughs the most ancient Townes of England all Cities were Borroughs in the beginning and from them come Burgesses to the Parliament so that in effect if an ancient Borrough ergo they sent Burgesses to the Parliament all these ancient Townes in England did remayne of Record in the Exchequer 40. ass plac 27. In Ireland they doe remayne of Record in the Parliament Rolles the tryall of them is by the Record it selfe and not otherwise If a Towne send Burgesses once or twice it is Title enough to send ever after 11. Henr. 4. 2. So if a Peere called once by writ and once sitting as a Peere Co. institut fol. 9. b. hee is a Baron ever after In the foure ordinary Courts they have priviledge for the meanest of their members or servants why not the Parliament It was the custome of the ancient grave Iudges to consult with parliaments in causes of difficultie weight a parliament was then to be at hand they did not stay to advise with them in a point which concerned the parliament so neerely and which was of the greatest weight of any cause that ever was agitated in the kingdome In our books all the entries it is true and cleare that Quo-warrantoes are brought and ought to bee brought against such as clayme priviledges Franchises Royalties or the like flowers of the Crowne but to question Burgesses in this nature is to question the Kings prerogative in an high degree priviledges take from the King parliaments adde and give unto him greatnesse and profit in parliaments he sits essentially in other Courts not altogether so but by representation what greater disservice could bee done the King then to overthrow parliaments how shall Subsidies bee granted or the kingdome defended how shall ardua Regni be considered Oh the Barons of the Exchequer I wot will salve all these doubts I may not forget My Lords how the law of the land the whole Common-wealth is herein concerned and upon that I will offer a Case or two If a statute be made wherein the private interest of a subject or the generall interest of the Common-wealth be enacted the King by his Letters-patents cannot dispence with this statute Co. 8. 29. a. Princes case though they be with à non obstaute nor make any grant Non obstante of the Common-law therefore I conclude this question First that it is against the Kings prerogative to issue such à Quo-warranto as is here stated Secondly it is against the Common-wealth as destructive of parliaments and consequently of government Thirdly this is no priviledge but a service done to the King whole Common-wealth which cannot receive so much as a debate but in parliament Fourthly all the proceedings in the Excheqver touching this parliament were Coram non judice as was already voted in both houses as for the punishment we come not to urge your Lordships to punish other then with reference to that which I said before viz. the Oath These two questions have so neere a relation the one to the other meeting in the Center of the Castle-chamber that I will speake to them at once or as to one question My Lords if that golden