promotion which was competible but to a few So the second inconvenience pressed parag 13.14.15 is avoided also parag 16. All the inconvenience you say that Master Geree presseth is that we are not subject to the Parliament But how far forth we are and are not we shall hear anon Parag. 17.18 You tell me I speak much of a first and ' second oath I answer if that be an error I was led into it by my first Opponent that distinguish'd between oath and oath and the oath to maintain the priviledges of the Clergie he saith expresly is taken after the oath to the whole Realm neither do I see any thing in your Analysis of the oath here or the delineation of the oath in the beginning of your Book that invalidates the expression of my Opponent in realitie though in some formalitie it doth For there I see that the King had particularly and distinctly engaged himself to the whole Realm before he came to the Bishops which are the onely part of the Clergie about whom our controversie is and what he last promises to them confirmed by his oath must not contradict what he hath promised to the other which promise must be understood to have a prioritie in order in the bond of the oath as well as in the bond of the promise Parag. 19. You speak of sending us to Magna Charta to know who the People and Commons of this Kingdom are c. whith only fills up so much paper being nothing to the question in hand But Parag. 20. You reckon up the Priviledges of the Church as you have gleaned them out of Magna Charta and Sir Edward Cook in number 8. The second is that no Ecclesiasticall person be amerced according to the value of his Ecclesiasticall benefice but according to his lay-tenement and according to the quality of his offence The latter clause is reason the former a priviledg without reason and prejudiciall to the Civill state and gives many Ecclesiastical persons leave to sin impunè The fourth That all Ecclesiasticall persons shall enjoy all their lawfull jurisdictions and other rights wholly without any diminution or substraction whatsoever I pray you if the Kings Coronation-oath engage so to the confirmation of this priviledg that the king cannot consent to allow it by Act of Parliament how can that act be justified that enables the Crown of England to appoint what persons else they will to execute all Ecclesiasticall jurisdiction in this kingdom If that statute were lawfully made notwithstanding this oath why then may not another statute be made against their standing sith by the former they may be made unusefull and yet the former you brag you have engaged your selves to maintain in your oath of supremacie Parag. 9. The fifth priviledg you name is that a Bishop is regularly the Kings immediate Officer to the Kings Court of justice in causes Ecclesiasticall Whence I gather that by our law a Bishop is a kings creature no Apostle for he was the immediate Officer of Christ though subject in doing or suffering to the Civill Magistrate though heathen You conclude that it is provided by act of Parliament that if any judgment be given contrary to any points in the great Charter it shall be holden for nought c. True unless it be upon some particular statute of a latter Parliament with the king enacting things to the contrarie Parag. 21. You say that I go forward as if it were certain that this to the Clergie was a severall oath from that to the people I answer I disputed upon my opponents proposals and learned opponents do not use to make their cause worse then it is nor indeed doth he for though the king swear but once yet he ptomiseth the things he sweareth severally and the promise of this to the Bishops in question is last and therefore in competition must give way to other engagements neither do the statutes for confirmation of Magna Charta binde the hands of succeeding Parliaments Whose hands as the leaaned Chancellor Bacon observes cannot be bound by their Predecessors if they see reason of alteration a supream and absolute power saith he cannot conclude it self Hist of H. 7. p. 145. CHAP. X. PARAG. 3. Shewing that the Clergie are equally under the Parliament as well as Laytie in answer to Doctor Boughen's 9. Chapter I Now come to answer your ninth Chapter which is an angrie one which makes me think that you were sorely puzled My Dilemma is They are subject to the Parliament or they are not He answers subject they are to the Parliament consisting of head and members not to the members alone without the head for we are subject to the members only for the heads sake Truly this grant is all that I desire or need for the Parliament I propose the Dilemma about is that which consists of head and members united to which if they be subject then may these joyntly determine of any of their priviledges in their own nature alterable as they do of those of the people Indeed the King and Parliament ought not to take away any priviledges that are for edification but such as prove impediments rather but of that they are to be Judges in the application of their power and that 's all needfull to be said to parag 1 2 3 4 5. And yet I leave it with confidence to the judicious Reader as also what I have said in the former Paragraph touching a former and latter oath But whereas you ask Parag. 6. with what face I can say that the Kings oath to the Clergie is inconsistent with his oath to the people parag 6. I wonder with what face you can aver it when as I directly say it must not and therefore take off an interpretation of it that would make it inconsistent whereas you say the nation is weary of the Presbyterian government in three years it s but a piece of none-sence sith this three years except a little liveless shew in the City of London and some few places more the truth is and our miserie is that we have been under no Ecclesiasticall government at all Parag. 7. You mention my words if the oath had such a sence when the Clergie were a distinct Corporation on which you spend your judgment if you know what sence is Truly Sir you are the worst at picking out sence that ever I knew of a D. D. My meaning is plain if the oath had a sence to exempt them from power of Parliament it must be when they were a distinct Corporation under another Supremacie which now you disclaim Parag. 8. You mistake in saying I am zealous in distinguishing you and your Priviledges I answer to the distinction brought by my opponent that it is not such but that the Priviledges of Clergie and People I mean such as are alterable are equally under Parliamentarie power for alteration on just grounds And the kings oath to you is as obligatorie as to the people in the right
two Supremacies for so it was before Henry 8. and so it s exprest in my Case and where I pray you is such a distinction exprest to be continued since Henry the 8th You cannot shew it nor doth any thing that you bring Parag 8. or 9. conclude it distinct they were but not so distinct but still they and their priviledges were under the power of the same Supremacie as your self confess Parag. 10 11. where your insinuation against me of seting up two Supremacies is but a flash for I shall shew in the last Chapter that the Supremacie I give to the Parliament is not absolute but 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 and two such are not inconsistent neither doth such respective Supremacie make the Parliament lawless or subject to no power and for your closing question Where then are the two Supremacies that you erect I answer I affirm it was so but now it is abolisht and so I charge not you with it but infer that being equally under one Supremacie that one Supremacie hath equal power over the priviledges of both which was the thing to be proved Neither do I deny what you affirm parag 12 13. That there are two distinct jurisdictions in our Land under the same head Neither do I denie de facto but a Bishop by the standing laws is regularly the Kings immediate Officer to the Kings Court of Justice in causes Ecclesiastical But the querie is whether this be so unalterable that the King and Parliament may not put it to a companie of Presbyters Which you have not yet disproved Whether covetousnes and ambition be more amongst Prelates then Presbyters whom you accuse God must judge But whether they be not like to rest more among those that would ingross all then among those that would have jurisdiction and maintenance divided men may easily judge For what you say parag 14. of Timothy and Titus I formerly proved them to be Evangelists and what they had extraordinarie to be ceas'd what they have ordinary to rest in Pastors who are Presbyter-Bishops the highest ordinarie Officers For that saying of Cyprian Ecclesia super Episcopos constituitur I would have you reconcile it with that 1 Cor. 3.11 Other foundation can no man lay then that which is layd Jesus Christ We acknowledg de facto in Cyprians time that the acts of the Church were ruled by the Bishops but that as Jeroms tells you was by humane custome not Divine disposition nor was it without Presbyters as you would have it who therefore are as far from the government of his times as we what you quote after may be but the heat of a Bishop to whom we oppose Saint Ierem on Titus 1. and Phil. 1. What you cite out of Ignatius is spoken as upon search I finde onely of that Bishop as he then stood Orthodox in opposition to some cursed weeds or Hereticks of the devils planting but when the Bishop was an Heretick as you know in many places it often fell out would they have been blessed or cursed that held with the Bishop think you For what you add touching the privileges of Clergy For the most part you falsly calumniate me that I seek to ruine them you know I call the alieanation of their means Sacriledg neither do I envie any of their just priviledges but this is that which I have in hand whereas there be two sorts of priviledges some Divine some humane I question onely whether those humane priviledges separable from the offices appointed by Christ in his word such as the Monarchie of one above all other may not upon advisement for the good of the Republique admit of alteration as well as Laypriviledges Therefore you slander me grosly in objecting that I would take away all honour from the Ministery that the Scriptures by prophesie or precept have given to them But you on the contrarie egregiously abuse the Scripture in applying what the Scripture saith by way of honour or priviledg of the Ministerie that is of Apostles Prophets Evanglists and Presbyter-Bishops which onely are the Scriptures Bishops to a few Diocesans Creatures whom the holy page never knew And so you-sleight the generalitie of Pastors to exalt a few Lord-Bishops Constantines affection was pious to the Ministers of Christ But the Bishops he honoured so were men of another condition then those you plead for they lorded it not in the Church without the joynt help of their Presbyters in government And further if there were not some error of the times in some of the honours which he gave how came they so quickly to fall together by the ears for Primacie And to give occasion to that observation That when their Chalices were wooden the Bishops were golden but the Bishops became woodden when their Chalices became golden Sure the general abuse gives occasion to suspect some error in expression of those affections But I hope I have said enough to let the intelligent Reader see how far that assertion that I maintain to prooure peace and safetie to Church and Kingdom ready to perish by an unnatural war is from detracting from any just or useful respect commanded from the people to the Ministers if faithful though the meanest Pastours which I know and people will finde God will reward as done to himself But one thing is not unworthy notice in parag 8. Where you say Paul willeth the Philippians to receive Epaphroditus their Apostle or Bishop and also chargeth them to hold such in reputation Consider I pray you had not the Philippians then other such as Epaphroditus else why doth he give them charge of others of like quality And may you not thence see that Epaphroditus was no singular Bishop but such an one as might have other Presbyters his fellows in like honours Case of Conscience Resolved VVHo knows not that one of the priviledges of the Clergie was for the Bishops to sit and vote in the House of Peers yet that is abolisht as incongruous to their calling And then why may not the removall of their Ecclesiasticall jurisdiction be consented to as well if it prove inconvenient and prejudicial to the Church The abolition of the one is no more against the oath then of the other CHAP. VI. Answering Doctor Boughens explanations for the removall of Bishops out of the House of Lords in his 12. chapter I Proceed now to examine your 12. Chapter spent most upon the Theam whether it be incongruous to the calling of Bishops to sit and vote in Parliament And here you are very passionate but I must first tell you your passionate follie falls more foul on King and Parliament then me for I do but render the reason given by them in effect in the very statute * Anno 17. Car. R. An act for disabling all persons in holy Orders to exercise any temporall jurisdiction or authority The words are these whereas Bishops and other persons in holy orders ought not to be intangled with secular jurisdiction the office of the
the suffering of the Clergie all Families suffer you substitute Clergie for Bishops Other of the Clergie may be in better condition by the removall of Lording Bishops but in your proof that one of the Tribe of Judah of the most remarkable Family turn'd Priest That is so gross an oversight that it is most unbeseeming a D. D. for its expresly said that young man was a Levite by birth And the argument of Micah plainly proves him so or else he had been in no better case with him then with one of his own sons whom he had consecrated if that would have made a Priest See Judg. 17. v. 5.13 The Levite indeed turned Priest which was his wickedness for a Levite was not to do the Priests office There is indeed an ambiguous expression touching this Levite v. 7. A young man of Bethlehem Judah of the family of Judah But if you had consulted Interpreters you would have found them generally agreeing that he was a Levite though differing in their opinions how he was of the family of Judah Some saying by his Mother some referring it to the City to distinguish it from another Bethlehem in Zabulon c. You add parag 8. What if Magna Charta do obliege all to stand up for the due observation of these priviledges then we must acknowledg that we are bound to obey his Majesty commanding c. Still you alter the question for the question is Whether it can be supposed equal that the King should stand bound to engage the lives of many for the priviledges of a few Lord Bishops I hope you think it not the meaning of Magna Charta that every one should engage their lives for every paltrie priviledg of another But it s well you can now confess that Magna Charta is a great and justly magnified Charter If you and your Prelates had been of this minde formerly and not been so deep in breaking and countenancing the breach of it in others by illegal imprisonments impositions fines both of Laytie and Clergie England might have scap'd this cannensem calamitatem this mine-threatning calamitie under which it is readie to expire to which the breaches of Magna Charta gave the first occasion and the fairest colour Parag. 2. You make an objection touching Abbots and Priors provided for by the same Charter yet since taken away by act of Parliament which you confess But first you you would have us observe how they prospered that did it Secondly that Master Beza and my self call it sacriledg We do so and that we judge the cause why they prosper'd not that did it because they did it with that sinful circumstance of devouring holy things which shewed also their want of sinceritie in it Thirdly you say that they are for it stiled enemies of our Sovereign But they did not hear it they were born long after the Statute of 25. Edward 3. Fourthly you cite the Counsel of Chalcedon that no consecrated Monastery may be turned to a secular dwelling I answer Counsels may erre and so may that of Chalcedon if the profit of the house had been imployed for pious uses I see no ground of complaint or censure Fiftly you say you hope I will make a difference between our Saviours institution and mans invention Truely I do and have proved Diocesan-Bishops to be no institution of Christ but man in the foregoing Discourse And lastly I joyn With the wishes of those pious men and move as you know not a devouring but a diversion of Chathedrals maintenance Besides what is requisite to maintain needful preaching there to procure and encourage able Parochial Pastors who are the undoubted Ordinance of Jesus Christ all the Land over Parag. 10. You do but beat the same bush again in citing again Magna Charta I confess the kings engagement to maintain the Priviledges of the Clergie so far as he is bound by right nor is any act of the king or the Houses without the king valid against it but king and Parliament joyning they may over-rule some parts of it and upon just ground warrantably as appears in all experience as in paring Episcopall Canonical priviledges niminishing their jurisdiction by the high Commission annext to and set over Bishops c. Parag. 11. You enquire Whether it be equall to engage the lives of some to destroy the honours of others This is impertinent to my Case and though I count not your Bishops plantations of Gods right hand yet sith they had footing by law it hath been my grief that force hath been used to pluck them up for me they should have stayed for his day who hath said every plant that my heavenly Father hath not planted shall be plucked up but when I have made complaint of this it hath been replyed to me by many that this was not the cause of the engagement in war though I believe the most considerable part of the people had an eye on this but this is on the by Parag. 12 13. You take into consideration my Case of a Captain engaged by oath to maintain the Priviledges of Townes-men and keep a town to his power whether he may not notwithstanding his oath make his composition if he cannot defend it without the Townes-men and they will not fight without violation of his oath I think none will affirm it You do not only deny it but take the Name of God in vain to make a jeer at it doth that become a Divine But let 's hear your reason because there 's no town in England can have such a priviledg as not to bear arms against the Kings enemies Suppose it be so I am no Lawyer yet you know it s not unusuall in cases to suppose things that are not so they be not impossible as this is not for the king may grant such an immunitie if he please that none shall be compell'd to bear arms and therefore it was but a shift that error in the Case may be easily mended and it will pinch the Doctor as hard as ever it did for suppose that so many of the souldiers in the town are slain or taken prisoners that the Governour can defend it no longer then I hope Mr. Doctor will yield that he may make his composition so was it with the king at the publishing my small Treatise and now notwithstanding my former fails as he saith Parag. 14. for want of skill in law the difficulty is returned on the Doctor get out how he can I make an Objection that though the king cannot in such a state uphold them yet it is in his power not to consent to their fall this I say is the only exception The Doctor saith its a just one though not the only one yet he shews no other but then he is angry for the phrase peremptoriness in denying assent to the fall of Bishops used to the King as uncivil I am no Courtier I confess and may fail in phrase yet peremptoriness in a candid sense is no more then