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A39574 Rusticus ad academicos in exercitationibus expostulatoriis, apologeticis quatuor The rustick's alarm to the rabbies, or, The country correcting the university and clergy, and ... contesting for the truth ... : in four apologeticall and expostulatory exercitations : wherein is contained, as well a general account to all enquirers, as a general answer to all opposers of the most truly catholike and most truly Christ-like Chistians [sic] called Quakers, and of the true divinity of their doctrine : by way of entire entercourse held in special with four of the clergies chieftanes, viz, John Owen ... Tho. Danson ... John Tombes ... Rich. Baxter ... by Samuel Fisher ... Fisher, Samuel, 1605-1665.; Owen, John, 1616-1683.; Danson, Thomas, d. 1694.; Tombes, John, 1603?-1676.; Baxter, Richard, 1615-1691. 1660 (1660) Wing F1056; Wing F1050_PARTIAL; Wing F1046_PARTIAL; ESTC R16970 1,147,274 931

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Rank Papists nor Rankers of our ●elves with them against the Truth in our maintaining of tho●e Doctrines I must therefore since the Lord hath laid it upon me if all the world would take me off it take leave here to enlarge so far as to enter the lists in one short single duel with T.D. alone about these matters desiring I. O. to have patience and stand by a while longer till I can have while to handle him and T.D. both at once in those points wherein they two joyne and issue out together making as it were but one head as to the doctrines wherein they oppose against the Qua and the rather because I find not I. O. in his book which elsewise is Brotherly enough with T.D. in bitternesse against the Truth and Qua. intermedling much there what ere he thinks in this so momentary a matter As for T. D. I have sundry things to reckon and reason with him in aboutit 1 I am to have a talking with thee T.D. in a few words for a certain abuse or injury done by thee in that passage of thine p. 14. wherein thou relatest that the 3d. Question debated on by us was stated in these Termes viz. whether OUR good works are the meritorious cause of our justification that I not onely held it in the affirmative but also disputed it in those termes of OUR good works in such wise as the Papists do so as to shew my selfe a rank Papist which injury in regard of the extent of it to the severall persons wronged is not more manifest then manifold yea verily seven-fold more then ordinary for as much as no lesse then seven persons are thereby most grossely abused and belyed that is to say not only my selfe whom onely thou intendedst should suffer by it but also thy selfe and five of thy chiefe friends too for want of thy forecast viz. 2 of them thou cal●t Gentlemen and three of thy Master Ministers whose witnesse thou appealest to who are all more moderate and gentle Men then thy selfe it seemes as to their Testimony in this matter for they all and thy selfe too who bring'st them to bear witnesse with thee of the truth in this case do with one accord together with thee testifie another thing which is the very truth and no more then the truth viz. see p. 58. Of thine own narrative that the termes of the 3 d. Question were whether good works be the meritorious cause of our justification which as 't is there said truly was expressely affirmed by us without that figmentitious particle OVR in the sence thou usest it in which is of thine own forging and foisting in and adding to that term good works the adding of which in the eye of any save such as are not either Arrand fooles or else as the Proverb is more Knaves then Fools which yet is in plain terms the plain case of all that wink against the truth and will not seem to see it when they do doth alter the State of the Question so as to make it utterly another for who but such as either cannot see or which is worse may see and will not can chuse but understand that whether OVR good works at least in that sottish and sordid sense wherein the Papists hold it do justifie Is one Question And whether Good works do justifie Is another In which 1 st sense of the Papist when they say OVR good works whose Good Works as they call them are no better than other mens own are whose own meerly are all stark naught I neither do nor ever did affirm our Iustification to come but in the latter viz. that Good works meaning only those of Christs own working in and for us by the same power and spirit by which he did good works in that person in which he liv'd and dyed at Ierusalem then whom I know no other that can without his power work any Good I confesse I both then did affirm and own and as I then did in the power of Christ so I ever shall both affirm evince and maintain And whether it was in this latter sense only or in the former Popish s●nse in which thou T.D. art impudent enough to assert I held it he that will in no wise beleive me if I speak in my own case nor any that side with me in the truth but had rather give credit to T.D. let him beleive T.D. with all my heart provided he do but take his Testiomy to be tru●st where its strongest for then he cannot but beleive me to be belyed for that T.D. who in p. 58. Sayes the Question was stated in these Termes Good Works which was the same T.D. undoutedly that sayes the other doth flatly gainsay and clearly contradict that T.D. And prove him a lyar that saves p. 14. It was stated in these Termes OVR good works and if any doubt which of these two selfe-overturning Testimonies of T.D. may most securely be taken for truth seeing they are 2. contrary Testimonies of one and the same man viz. that in p. 14. wherein he wrongs me or that of his own in p. 58. which I appeale to for right and am willing to be tryed by as touching his false charge of me as saying OUR good works justifie I say unlesse the Reader mean to wrong more then himselfe or me either by his misbeleife namely not only such of my friends as witness truth with me but also ● of T. D's own most eminent and credible witnesses so as to Judge them also to be all Lyars he must beleive what T.D. sayes p. 58. Namely that I affirm'd Good works justifie and beleive that to be a lye which T.D. sayes p. 14. Namely that I affirm'd OUR good works justifie for T.D. alone on his own head only sayes this last but T.D. together with his 5. Witnesses assert the other Thus then stands this case between me and thy selfe T.D. thou arraignest me openly at the Bar before the world p. 14. as a ra●k Papist as saying in these Termes that OUR good works are the meritorious cause of our justification to which Inditement I pleading not guilty of saying OVR good works but good works are the cause c. How wilt thou be tryed quoth the impartiall Iudge the honest hearted Reader that would ●ain find out the truth in the Court of his own conscience whether thou be guilty of affirming and disputing the said position expressely in those Termes or not guilty I reply by God and the Country What evidence bringst thou in quoth the righteous Reader to T.D. against S.F. whom thou so accusest What were the Termes in which he and the Qua. expressely affirm'd it The Termes of the Question were these quoth T.D. p. 58. whether Good Workes he the meritoricus cause of our justification which was expressely affirmed by them Thus am I cleared in the sight of God and all men from T. D's Accusation by the true evidence of T.D. himselfe my accuser for we have
not Accusatum but Accusantem Reum confitentem not the falsely accused but the falsely accusing Malefactors own confession to his own confutation and confusion that the position was asserted not in the same Termes in which at first he related it to be asserted in so that what need any further witnesse for ye your selves of all sorts that read T. D's book may read the truth in his own Testimony but if any finding T.D. so fickle as to say and unsay judg him not fit to be heeded in what he sayes whether against me or against himselfe and will needs heare what others say in the matter whether I affirm'd OUR good works or Good works only Meritorious I need not trouble the world with the summoning in of more witnesses since fas est vel ab hoste doceri such as T.D. hath appealed to himselfe shall stand for me for as T.D. sayes p. 58. to the proving of T.D. to be a lyar in what he sayes p. 14. that 't was Good Works so H. Oxenden I. Boys N. Barry T. Seyliard C. Nicols agree in their witnesse with him and for ought I find as he sayes p. 58. So they say all and he that will not beleive them doth what in him lyes make them to be lyars like him as well as T.D. in gain-saing p. 14. that truth which himselfe and they with him do all assert p. 58. does not only make himselfe a lyar but also what in him lyes abuse not only me and himselfe but all them also so as to make them seem lyars also together with him Now then T. D. Let me expostulate with thee a little on thine own and thy freinds behalf couldst thou not b●ly me in some better way then that p. 14. whereby thou givest the lye if men were such fooles as to beleive thy single self before thy selfe and 5. witnesses both to thy selfe and them all in that truth ye all 6. testify together p. 58 if thou wouldst in no wise spare me who can expect no sparing but rather a shooting out of your poysoned arrowes against me even lying words who also can and do forgive thy forgery so far as it reaches only to the ill reputation of my selfe yet thou mightest have been contented to have spared thy friends thy Gentlemen and Ministers who as thou saift of them in thy Epistle to the Reader are Witnesses of the Termes of the Questions agreed to by the Qua. to free thee from the suspition of a partiall Relato● so as not to have laid them lyable to suspition of lying by thy lying p. 14. against thy own and their true Testimony p. 58. or if not them yet at least have spared thy selfe so far as not to have stained thy self and thine own reputation and not have subjected thy selfe in the hearts of all to not only a shrew'd suspition but welny a certain censure of forgery so much as thou hast done in handling thy ill matters no better and making thy invented evill-intending Tale hang no more handsomly together then it does for which how far soever I forgive thee and thou in favour to thy selfe mayst possibly give pardon to thy own selfe supposed Saintship as freely as thou dost to David and all Saints in theirs in thy own foulest faults and abominations yet every Reader that loves the truth which thou hast wronged will remember and not so readily forget how eminently the Lord hath left T.D. in his envious undertakings to manifest the Qua. folly to all men instead thereof most palpably to manifest his own neither when the Lord●ises up to visit and to reckon and to enter into judgment with him for it will the seeming Saint without confession and forsaking so easily as he supposes find from him the forgiveness of his falshood Henceforth therefore T.D. take heed of lying at all to thy own hurt or if for want of love to it thou must needs bely the Truth and its Children for which wo and no lesse then the Lake must be thy Portion yet for thy credits sake a while have a care another time of lying so directly against thy self but remember that Opo●te● mendacem esse memorem it behoves a lyar to have his wits better about him then thou had'st in this busines least by going about to wrong another a great deal he do not only in foro Dei but hominum also before men wrong himself not a little as thou hast done who at this time was●t not thy Crafts-Master so much as thy Craft was thine to catch thee in the Snare which thou laid'st and to pull thee into the pit and draw thee down into the ditch which thyself digg'dst for another for though thou travailedst with iniquity and conceivedst mischief and broughtest forth false-hood against thy fained-foe but unfained friend S.F. yet is it in such a foolish unsubtle manner that the mischief of the Serpent who was scarce like his cunning-self in the mannaging of this matter returns and so it ever must till it be bruised let him lye never so wisely upon his own head and his violent dealing and viola●ion of the truth comes unawares upon his own pate So Honi Soir qui mal perse evil still to him that evil thinks and howbeit fallere fallentim v●x est fraus as they speak for a man to deceive himself in that very thing wherein he hoped to deceive another is one of the most honest and harmlesse peices of deceit that I know and the least of all to befound fault with yet so it hath happened to T.D. in this one peice of his Arche●y against me and the Truth that he hath as he saith he intended to do p. 50. beat the Devil at his own weapon and outshot him in his bow yea and overshot himself so exceedingly al●o as that Not aiming right when he bent his Bow To shoot at a Pigeon he kild a Crow That then I affirmed good works to deserve Iustification I own and still affirm the same but I deny that that I there affirmed and here I affirm that I then did and still do deny the Papist best works which are not good what ere they call them to deserve Iustification or OUR own best works either who know no good works that we have but what Christ who works no evil works by his power worketh in and by us which as they are done by him in us are not ours but distinctively from ours 2 Tim. 1.7 Tit. 3.5 called his and as they are done by us throw his power in us are called our works Isa. 26.12 for as he doth them in us Mat. 10.20 2 Cor. 13.3 1 Cor. 14.25 and worketh in us both to will and do them they are truly his and as we work them in and by that power he gives may yet not in such sense as what we do of our selves be called our own Phil. 2.12.13 yea if we speak of what good works Christ did in that person only in which he appeared at Ierusalem