Selected quad for the lemma: cause_n

Word A	Word B	Word C	Word D	Occurrence	Frequency Band	MI	MI Band	Prominent
cause_n	according_a	judge_n	law_n	2,498	5	5.0932	4	true

Text snippets containing the quad

ID	Title	Author	Corrected Date of Publication (TCP Date of Publication)	STC	Words	Pages
A87639	Jurors judges of law and fact or, certain observations of certain differences in points of law between a certain reverend judg, called Andr. Horn, and an uncertain author of a certain paper, printed by one Francis Neale this year 1650. styled, A letter of due censure and redargution to Lievt. Col. John Lilburn, touching his tryall at Guild-Hall, London in Octob. 1649. subscribed H.P. Written by John Jones, gent. Not for any vindication of Mr. Lilburn against any injury which the said author doth him, who can best vindicate himself by due cours of law; if not rather leav it to God whose right is to revenge the wrongs of his servants. Nor of my self, but of what I have written much contrary to the tenents of this letter; and for the confirmation of the free people of England, that regard their libertie, propertie, and birthright, to beleev and stand to the truth that I have written, so far as they shall finde it ratified by the lawes of God and this land; and to beware of flatterers that endevor to seduce them under colour of good counsel, to betray their freedoms to perpetual slavery.	Jones, John, of Neyath, Brecon.	1650 (1650)	Wing J970; Thomason E1414_2; ESTC R209436	24,554	117

desire them to put out of their assembly al mercenarie professors of Law that poison their Counsell no less then their predecessors did the King making them to do the same things which they condemned in him to the more grief of the People that were promised Reformation and are paid in more and wors deformation of their Laws and Liberties then they were before witness amongst manie more abuses the Fen Project of Lincolnshire c. condemned in the late King yet supported by more Malignant Royalists then in respect of Justice he himself could be any who are Judges Parties and partners of the prey made by themselvs of other mens Rights of whose service and affections both Parliament and Army have had no less experience then of their defects and delinquencies And move his Excellencie to desire the House further to command the keepers of the great Seal to issue forthwith Commissions of Oyer and Terminer as by Law they ought to all parties grieved that shall demand them directed to such Commissioners as the grieved parties shall nominat to enquire hear and determine the extortions oppressions and misdemeanors of Sheriffs under Sheriffs Gaolers and other Officers subject to popular offence And lastly to desire the said House to pass an Act for the setling of the Law hereafter in that plainness shortness and cheapness as hath been often desired in divers Petitions of Londoners and others and by my last Letter to his Excellencie bearing date about the beginning of this Month according to the propositions of 12 heads of Law there inclosed which I understand in Scotland were delivered to his Excellencies hands So God himself shall bless you and your Actions and the people present and future and even your selvs and your Children have cause to rejoice in your work and be thankfull to God and your industrie for so great a favor So shall Your Faithfull servant John Jones From my Lodging at Mr. Mundays hous in Clarkenwel this 29. of July 1650. JURORS JUDGES OF Law and Fact SIR HAving casually met with and perused your printed paper styled A Letter of due Censure and Redargution to Lieutenant Collone John Lilburne touching his Triall at Guild-Hall London in October last 1649. I could not chuse but take hold of your first Lines wherein you say God's strict Injunction obliges us all to reprove sin wheresoever we finde it And thereupon I must tell you that whatsoever you finde in Mr. Lilburne I can finde in you no less then sin against God whose name you abominably abuse to reprove truth and call good evill and evill good against Mr. Lilburne whom you make but your Instrument to play upon while you wound others through his sides yea even those most whom you flatter most Against the true and Ordinarie Judges of the Land the Jurors whose verdict is the effectual Judgement whereby all men are judged by their Peers aswell for their Lives as Lands without which Judgements the Law of England cannot be Lawfullie executed And generally against all the Free People of this Common-wealth whom you endeavour to blinde and enslave by your sophistrie unto usurped Authorities perswading as much as in you lyeth all your Countrie-men to submit and give away their Lives their birthrights Liberties and Freedoms for the preservation whereof all their just Laws and Civill Wars and especially this last were made to the insatiable Tyrannie of their incroaching Impostors as shall appear following viz. Page 3d of your Letter or rather Libell in the second head of those things for which you say Mr. Lilburne is liable to reproof you tell him he laid hold of divers shifting Cavills and shufling exceptions in Law which were onely fit to wast time and procure trouble to the Court Sir if Law alloweth Exceptions called delatories and lawfull Traverses as well in Pleas for Land as for Life as you may finde it doth and ought in Mr. Hornes Book called the Mirror of Justice written by him in French in Edward the First his time as you may observe in the Margent of the 6th page thereof and excellently translated into English lately by William Heughes Esquire a discreet and learned Lawyer living in Grayes Inn of which kinde of Exceptions some be Pleas for Actions and Appeales the Presidents whereof are briefly and diversly according to the diversity of their causes natures and uses demonstrated unto you in the said Book from p. 129. to p. 143. and thence to 146. are Exceptions or Pleas to Indictments the summary reason of all which is not as you call it to waste time and to procure trouble to Courts but to bestow time as it can be no better bestowed especially in Cases of life then to search out the truth of every Cause that mens lives be not rashly lost which cannot be recovered if condemned and executed how be it wrongfully or carelesly so that to be carefull circumspect and well advised in a Court is not to trouble it for it is its duty to be exercised as it is significantlie derived à Curando that is a Court of Care or Cure Indifferentlie either or rather both as it is Ordained Care to be troubled to hear and determine the Cares and troubles of all men within its verge for Controversies of Law that vex trouble an whole hundred of Friends and neighbours to see but two of them undoe themselves in suits at Law or kill one another with Care to examin them truly and to Judge them justly And likewise to cure the Malladie of the Consciences or at least the intemperance of the Litigious spirits of Plaintiffs and Defendants by ending their differences as may be most available for their Peace and the Common-wealth And as it is the duty of a Court to be troubled to end troubles so saith Mr. Horne p. 58. not to accuse any for matters of Crime and Life though a known offender learning of Christ in the Case of Magdalen Nor to countenance Bloody Accusers but to mollifie their Rigour as Christ did in the same Case for Judges that represent God and should imitate his mercy as well as his Justice ought not to desire the death of a sinner but rather that he may return from his wickedness and live and Conveniens homini est hominem servare voluptas Et meliùs nullà quaeritur Arte favor Nothing more Convenient for Man or acceptable to God then to save Penitents whom he came not to destroy but to call to Repentance Nor is it the part of a Judge as in p. 66. of my said Author to condemn one for the same or the like offence as the Judge knoweth himself guilty of And therefore Exceptions are lawfull to the Power of a Judge as in p. 133. to his person as in p. 135. and to his condition as in p. 59. And those that are granted to be lawfull to be propounded against his Power p. 133. are the same in substance which you say Mr. Lilburne made use of yet call them

What error can be in the substance of a true saying but in the form there may and that the Iudges and the Clerks assume to be their office to make in Latin and such is the form and Latin they usually make thereof that every word or second are commonly erroneous and that of purpose for themselvs to make work for themselvs by spinning the Cause in suites and vain pleadings somtimes to seven years time that might have been begun and ended in a day and by beggering both parties to inrich themselvs by damnable Fees and extortions all that while Can the verdict which is the true saying of 12. Men upon the whole matter of Law and Fact be alter'd by a contrarie Iudgment as you expressly say you can but that must be fals and an untrue saying for what can be contrary to a true saying but a fals And which of them ought to be altered you say the verdict Whereupon let all men judg whether you are not a plain liar therein but suppose since you goe by suppositions that the saying of the Iurors is not true and therefore no verdict such as Iudges receive or rather arrest and cause to be given them for verdicts by Iurors impanniled by Sheriffs by Iudges directions for that purpose Can the Confirmation of a Commissary Iudg by his Iudgment make that good It s a Maxim in Law that what is naught in the foundation can never be made good by Confirmation but I confess many an honest man is hanged by such supposed verdicts and devilish Iudgments Can such Lies be called verdicts or such Iudgments be called true more then you can be called a just reprover or a due Censurer that reprove truth and justifie lying Can the Devill be a worse Censurer or Reprover What Iudgment mean you stands good in Mr. Lilburnes Case who had no Iudgment at all passed upon him but that verdict that saved him and the assent of the Councell of State and Parliament that confirmed it And what verdict or Iudgment do you finde fault with in all your Book over but that Surely you were in a frenzie when you wove this stuff not so good as Linsey Woolsey but if you would know what should be done in case a Jury should give in an untrue saying in stead of a verdict that being made to appear to a Commissary Judg by the Partie greived or his Councell learned to be undeniably true such a seeming verdict in c●se of life or land of Free-hold is traversable as also any verdict made defective informed by Lawyers as aforesaid and thereby sounding defective in matter and so counted erroneous by them that made it for that purpose to linger the matter for their own gain as you may read in Mr. Horns Mirror as aforesaid and in the Statutes of 41. Edward 3. fol. 5. and 6. of Henry 7. and 19. Henry the eight Howbeit for bloodshed in Leets there is no traverse because the fact is a manifest wrong and if laid upon a wrong person he may have his Attaint against the Jury and recover treble damages by the verdict of 24 better Jurors which remedie every party wronged by any Jury hath besides his Traverse And in case of life which may be lost by the malice or ignorance of som Juries purposly returned by som Sheriffs for their own ends if executed according to their saying and is never recoverable by Law The Commissary Iudg upon true information and proof thereof and not otherwise ought to stay Iudgment or execution or both untill he can likewise inform the Keepers of Englands Liberties of the truth of the Cause and repriev the Prisoner untill their pardon or Tollerance be obtained for him as was wont in the Kings time in like cases so that afterwards the Prisoner may have his Attaint as he ought against such a Iury whose Iudgment is terrible enough for example to others and sufficiently satisfactory to the Party viz. to repair his wrong and pay him treble damages To forfeit their lands and goods to the Lord of the Fee to have their houses demolished their woods rooted their bodies imprisoned during their lives And Iurors ought to try Attaints without Fee Ex officio as you may read in the Mirror p. 64. And so let so much serve in this place to inform you that the Iurisdiction of Iurors is to be Iudges and Verdictors of all controversies given them in charge upon their Oaths as well for matter of Law as Fact and as antient as and more permanent then Commissary Iudges for when Commissary Iudges had abused their places so that they were beaten out of them and Civill Wars therefore grew between Kings and people before Magna Charta and since untill the said second agreement made between Ed. 1. and them whereby Coroners and Sheriffs were reordained for they had been ordained before as appeareth by Magna Charta and long before that to defend the Country when they were dismissed of their guards c. for till then guards continued for the breach of Magna Charta begun by Hugh de Burgo's means and then Captains and Leiutenants became Sheriffs Coroners c. and Centinels Bailiffs c. But alwayes the Free men judged their neighbours constantly And therefore Mr. Lilburn neither did nor could give his Iurors any new Iurisdiction nor promote them to any preferment more then of right they had as you most falsly and maliciously however ignorantly accuse him and abuse both him and them to introduce the rest of your untruths which follow for next you say that thereby you perceiv his Levelling Philosophy is that Iudges because they understand Law are to be degraded and made servants to the Iurors but the jurors because they understand no Law are to be mounted aloft where they are to administer Law to the whole Kingdom the Iudges because they are commonly gentlemen by birth and have had honorable education are to be exposed to scorn but the Jurors because they be commonly mechanick bred up illiteratly to handy Crafts are to be placed at the Helm and consequently Learning and gentle extractions because they have been in esteem in all Nations from the beginning of the world til now must be debased but ignorance and sordid births must ascend the Chair and be lifted up to the eminentest Offices and places of power Coblers must now practise Physick in stead of Doctors Tradesmen must get into Pulpits instead of Divines and Plow-men must ride to Sessions instead of Iustices of Peace Sir I shall not meddle with Mr. Lilburns Philosophy but shall conceiv it more reasonable and therefore more tollerable then your sophistrie seeing it appeareth by your own setting forth his endeavour was not to degrade Judges because they understood Law but to inform them better because he conceived they understood not Law in his Case till they would be pleased to be better instructed by his learned Councell which as he aledged divers presidents for might have been as Lawfully allowed

themselvs grieved by partialities or delaies of their Countrey Commissaries unto that Court kept in their own Hall of their then dwelling Mansion as it continued untill White-Hall came into the hands of King Henry 8. by Cardinall Woolsey his delinquencie which pleasing him better he madehis Court and gave not onely Westminster-Hall but also all the Pallace of Westminster that his Ancestors from Rufus to him contented themselvs to dwell in to be the Consistories of all his Courts when he found it chargable to remove them though he and his successors gained least by them But now no King being no Court that depended upon his Person or his deputies or Commissaries in respect of their prerogative Judicature reputed transcendent remedies for som transcendent Injuries committed and suffered amongst the people can be necessarie because triennial or more frequent Parliaments and speciall Commissions of Oyer and Terminer to be granted them when and as their Causes require may better supply them and with more speed and Justice and less charge and expence finish their Causes at or near their homes then all or any the Courts at Westminster ever did or could But if the Keepers of Englands Libertie be pleased to have any one or more Courts or Judges to be superintendents above all others besides Parliaments and speciall Oyers and Terminers Then they are to be desired to be also pleased to allow and pay them sufficient Wages at their own cost and not the peoples as Kings did when their Commissarie Judges were to have of never so many Parties in one Cause but 12d to be divided amongst them and that after the end of the suit and not before And a Pleader though a Sergeant at Law was sworn to plead as well as he could for his Master now called his Clyent and counted his servant and to abuse the Court with no fals or more delatorie then necessarie Pleas And was to have for every such Plea pleading but six pencel and for his sallarie or Wages for his attendance in every Cause first to last beginning to end as the Court should think fit considering the greatness of the Cause and merit of the Pleader c. as you may read in the Mirror p. 64. Now to return to your Mechanicks commonly as you say brought up illiterat surely it cannot be unknown to you that there are most commonly as many if not more Masters of Art in London that use Trades and handicrafts as practise Law at Westminster and compleater Retoritians Logitians Musitians Arithmetitians Geometricians Astronomers and Phisitians all which are the severall liberall sciences and the very Encyclopedie and summarie of all good and necessarie Arts and learning How then do you make it your consequence that if all Commissarie Judges be not adored as you would have them all learning and gentle extraction must be debased but ignorant and fordid birth must ascend to the Chair as if there were no learning but in Pedlers French and Law-Latin the very disguises of the Law which hath no such need of them as a foul face of a Mask or an hangman of a Vizard but contrariwise much necessarie to be rid of those Curtains which hide both the beautifull Shape and material substance of it from us that it may appear even to our understandings more gloriously more learnedly in plain English then in that Canting more obnoxious then that of beggars which would but cheat us of necessaries to sustain their lives whilst Law-Canters cheat both us and them of all our livelihoods and liberties to surfet themselvs with superfluities by making us all starvlings pined with that extream of wants the want of Justice for put the case that those hotch-potch French and Quelquechose Latin were banished and the Law rendred in English as Scriptures are which were hidden from us by Prelats as our Law by Lawyers would not all learning and argumentations in Law be as necessarie for the continual preservation of mens lives and estates and therefore continued in English as Sermons in Pulptis and disputes in Schools and Universities requisit for the salvation of our souls are Naywould not School-Masters to read and teach the Law in common Schools beas ne cessarie in London as Students in the Inns of Court or Chancerie or as such have been as you may read in the Lord Cooks Preamble upon Magna Charta and did read upon Magna Charta when it was read twice yearly in Churches and 4 times yearly untill full Counties untill the same King that assented to the making and was sworne to the observing of Magna Charta in the 9 year of his Raign by the advice of his Chief Justice Hugh d'Burgo whose advice and his followers ever led Kings to ruine and Subjects to hazards by his special Writ in the 19 year of his Raign prohibited the said publick reading and teaching as you may read in the same place Did not the Eunuch understand the Language he read yet wanted Philip to interpret the meaning And did not God send Philip to that end So no doubt although the Law be Englished the most part of English people will be Eunuchs in their understanding of it so fully as they ought untill and but whilst there be Philips to expound it for it is too great a Studie for men otherwise imployed to be expert in to resolv Causes which you call Intricate As you would make it for Coblers to dilucidate texts which many call hard Scriptures And who can doubt it to be Gods speciall gift and vocation in Law to som to be just and learned Lawyers as to others to be sincere and Orthodox Divines while the world shall consist of bodies necessarie to be regulated as of souls to be disciplined And then for your gentle extractions may not they be as they were ever wont since Marriages were ordained in Heaven may not a Judg bestow his daughter upon a Citizen and a Citizen his upon a Judg or an Earl as we have seen usuall but by your allegation that there is a general disesteem of gentrie more now then from the beginning of the World which Mr. Lilburn can be no cause of It is manifest you charge the present Government as faultie for suffering such a disesteem to be among the people wherein you do but traduce and wrong the State that neither desire nor countenance any such thing but when gentrie for the most part grows degenerat and nobilitie debaseth it self Corruptio unius est generatio alterius when Lords turn Boors and simplicians let Clowns turn Lords and Politicians And let him that will carp at the Vicissitude of things which divine providence hath ordained blame neither State in generall nor persons in particular but conceiv rather that Ablatâ Causâ tollitur effectus when vertue faileth the honor followeth when God took his holy Spirit from Saul both Spirit and Majestie were transferred to David in a larger measure and therupon be you further answered by an Hea then Tempora mutantur