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ID	Title	Author	Corrected Date of Publication (TCP Date of Publication)	STC	Words	Pages
A04528	The Catholique iudge: or A moderator of the Catholique moderator Where in forme or manner of a plea or suite at law, the differences betweene those of the Reformed Church, and them of the Romish Church are decided; and without partialitie is shewed which is the true religion and catholique Church, for the instruction of either partie. Together with eight strong arguments or reasons, why the Popes cannot be competent iudges in these controversies. Written in the Dutch and French tongue, by Iohn of the Crosse, a Catholique gentleman. Translated out of French into English, by the right worshipfull and learned Knight Sir A.A.	John of the Crosse, a Catholique gentleman.; A. A., Sir.	1623 (1623)	STC 14651; ESTC S107831	50,836	96

the Popes seate crying Come wretched creature to the Iudgement of God So that the next day the Pope was found dead vpon his bed all his body being blacke and blew as if he had beene beaten and brused with blowes of a cudgell Nicholas the third died suddenly being stroken with an Apoplexie Leo the tenth died laughing and drinking roundly Clement the eight hauing conspired with Francis king of France against the Emperour Charles the fift was afterwards imprisoned by the Captaines of the Emperour and derided after a strange fashion and after they had pilled or sacked the Citie of Rome he was restored to his pontificall authoritie but finally was stifled or smothered with certaine Cardinals by the smoke of certaine Torches and waxen lights Hitherto haue we vnderstood the courses reasons wherfore the Reformed Christians will not accept the Popes for there Iudges in matter of religion For they say in the first place that it is repugnant to all lawes and rights both deuine and humane that in this cause or sute Popes should be both accusers and Iudges And that which is more according to the common Iudgment and opinion of the Canonists the Pope alone cannot pronounce sentence vpon an heresie but must therein be Iudged also by others Adding farther herevnto so many wicked acts of the Popes whereof albeit they were not conuicted and condemned but onely accused yet so it is that they not only cannot be Iudges in religion but are also incapable of accusing the meanest person before they haue sufficiently purged and excused themselues of all the before mentioned enormities Finally for so much as this is agreeable to all naturall right and reason that is to say that in all affaires and consultations of importance euery thing be resolued vpon and concluded according to the opinion and sentence of the greater and principall part especially when the greater part is esteemed or considered not onely according to the number of persons but cheifly according to the nature worthines and importance of the whole affaire or matter and goodnesse of the cause And Considering that all the Realmes and nations heretofore mentioned which accuse the Popes doe largly extend and amount to the two principal parts of Christendome consequently there remayning for the Romane Catholikes but one of the principall parts of Christendome The Reformed conclude that they may with all right reason reiect the Popes as incompetent and vnlawfull Iudges wherefore say the Reformed Let the Popes of Rome first and foremost purge themselues of all the aforesaid abhominable acts and hainous villanies whereof they are accused or else if they cannot doe it let them forbeare to intrude themselues in quality or title of Iudges touching the differences of Religion Otherwise the Reformed say that they shal haue iust occasion to make that answere to Popes which was heretofore addressed or returned to Pope Iohn Bishop by the Greeke Churches the which Churches the Pope had written vnto then that he alone was the head of all the Churches and the onely and proper Vicar of Iesus Christ they answered him breefly in these termes The letter of 7. Churches to the Pope We firmely beleeue thy great authoritie ouer them that are subiect vnto thee wee cannot endure thy great pride and ambition wee cannot iustifie thy great couetousnes The diuel be with thee for God is with vs. The Reformed come now to declare wherefore and how farre forth they will not acknowledge the Councells nor admit them for their Iudge For they refuse them as they say Why the Coūcels are refused to be iudges in religion for diuers and sundrie weightie reasons And first of all they affirme that there are diuers Councels which haue grosly erred not onely in discipline and outward order but also in that which concerneth the honour of our Saviour Iesus Christ The 1. reason of refusall whence it hath come to passe that oftentimes Provinciall Synodes haue beene corrected and controuled by Generall Councels and Generall Councels by provinciall Secondly The 2. reason of refusall the principall and best Councels haue not alwayes treated of all the points and articles of Chrstian Faith but onely of certaine differences which were then most questioned Moreover it appeareth by Histories that even in the best golden ages the pride and ambition or the curiosity or impudence and indiscretion or else the dissolutenesse or evill carriage of certaine Bishops and Pastors hath beene such as it seemes that oft-times in the Councels and Synodes the Spirit of God did not governe but rather the vncleane spirit who then prevailed got the vpper hand In briefe we reade that in these last ages such Councels haue beene held as haue brought in and confirmed false doctrine and vnprofitable frivolous and hurtfull ceremonies and that not by arguments or reasons or by the authority of the Word of God but rather by strong force by way of Armes And to the end no man may think all this to be devised as a false and malicious accusation the Reformed affirme that they can plainely proue it by a briefe rehearsall and register of the Councels for who shall diligently search into ancient and moderne Histories shall finde this to bee true that even as following the ancient tradition of the house of Elias all the time of the continuance of this world is divided into thrise three thousand yeeres In like manner all the time from the first comming of Iesus Christ vntill his last comming at the day of iudgement may bee fitly distributed into three periods or parts in which also all Realmes and Principalities haue felt some alteration and change We finde also that in those three periodes Three periods or partitions of Time of the new Testament or partitions of time true Christian religion and the vniversall Church hath increased and decreased like the moone For vntill about 500. yeeres after the birth of Christ although that during the sayd time certaine differences or controversies did arise touching the person of the Sonne of God and other very important points of religion against Ebion Cerinthus and diverse other Heretiques yet the truth hath alwayes obtained the vpper hand And during those first fiue hundred yeeres the Church of Christ flourished being as it were in full moone For in this first period were held the Apostolicall Councels and afterwards all the foure Oecumenicall Councels that is to say vniuersall of the Primitiue Church And indeed the first of all those Oecumenicall and Generall was assembled or called at Nice by the Emperour Constantine the Great Con. Nice which confuted and condemned the wicked Heretique Arrius The second was assembled or held at Constantinople by the Emperour Theodosius Con. Const which disprooued and convinced the Macedonian Heretiques The third was assembled in Ephesus Con. Ephes by the Emperour Theodosius the second sonne of Arcadius which condemned the Heretique Nestorius The fourth was called and held in Chalcedon by

attribute and giue this honour and reuerence firmely to beleeue that none of their authors haue tripped or erred in their writings But concerning other writers and authors we reade them in such manner that although they haue beene verie holy and Godly and of much knowledge yet so it is that wee hold not what they haue written for true only because they taught this or that but because they haue beene able to perswade and to make vs vnderstand it so to be either by those Canonicall writings or by some other reasons which in substance agree with the truth and word of God So that wee owe this onely to the Canonicall Bookes as Saint Austine saith elswhere that is to submit our selues to them without any contradiction Lib. de na gra cap. 6. Con. Faust lib. cap. 5. ad Oros cap. 11. ad Pan. ad Fortu. lib. 2. Con. Moreouer it may be lawfull to refuse any other writtings and to varie from them in opinion but all persons must yeeld consent to the Canonicall writings be he Laicke be he Priest be he King be he Emperour let him giue heede and attention to the holy Scripture for in the whole world nothing can be found so holy and so necessarie as the holy Scripture Crescon gram cap. 32. Ad Vnam Don Epst 4.8 What I pray you can be found or met with all more cleare and euident then all those excellent testimonies and sentences of Saint Austine And in truth say the Reformed if we could once come to this point that God himselfe might be acknowledged to be Iudge of all differences in Religion and that by his voice which clearely soundeth and vttereth it selfe in the writings of the Prophets and Apostles we would not refuse likewise to accept and allow the Councells Fathers and Miracles and such like for deposed witnesses in this cause or action Prouided alwaies that first of all distinction be discreetly and considerately made between the true Church which is the assembly of Iesus Christ and the Sinagogue and assembly of Sathan betweene the auncient fathers and Orthodoxe doctors worthy of creedit and Heretikes betweene the lawfull Councels and Synods and Tirannicall Councels Sinods betweene the true writings of Orthodoxe men and bastard bookes or suborned writings betweene true miracles and and counterfeit ones betweene rightfull succession of true Doctrine and the disguised succession of persons betweene true consent and holy Vnion and peruerse and obstinate complotting and agreement in opinion Briefly betweene the true Traditions of the Apostles and the false glosses or expositions of men Herevnto replie they of the Romish Church and demand how all this can be effected by the written word of God seeing that in like manner all Heretikes defend arme or strengthen themselues with this written word of God The Reformed answere How the Scripture may be iudge albeit all Heritekes abuse it that Heretikes cannot more conueniently and fitly be confuted and conuinced which abuse this holy Scripture then by the same written word of God the which only and alone can suppresse and determine all controuersies in religion Ad Cresum lib. 2. cap. 31. for as Saint Austine verie well saith we must by no meanes Iudge or controule the bookes of the Prophets and Apostles but we ought rather according to those bookes to Iudge of all other bookes of Religious professors or of Infidels Euen so we see that our Sauiour Iesus Christ confuted and confounded by the holy Scripture Mat. 12. 4. the Scribes Pharises and Sadduces yea Sathan himselfe all which abused the Scriptures So likewise Saint Stephen conuinced the Iewes and Philip conuerted the Eunuch of Queene Candace by the holy Scriptures Act. 6.7 In like manner did the Apostles confirme the doctrine of the Gospell by the writings of the Prophets And the Iewes of Beraea compared the Preaching and doctrine of the Apostle S. Paul with the doctrine of the Prophets by this meanes trying whether it agreed with the writings of the Prophets In summe after the same manner the Councell of Nice condemned the Heretike Arrius that of Constantinople the Heretike Macedonius that of Ephesus Nestorius that of Chalcedon Eutiches that is to say by the onely word of God Even as Saint Augustine also convinced the Heretique Pelagius Aug. de con sen Epist 163. lib 3. Con ca. 6. Sozom. l. 1. c. 3. and Tertullian the Heretique Drapeas Briefly all the other faithfull Doctors haue so resisted that is by the holy Scripture all Heretiques These are the very words of Saint Austen lib 2 cap 32. contr Cresc Wherefore as Saint Augustine very well saith Let no man in disputations presumptuously obiect or oppose against vs the writings of the ancient Fathers or Councels for we hold them not in themselues Canonicall but doe examine them by the Canonicall writings and whatsoever agreeth with the authority and excellency of the holy Scripture wee accept of with commendation but that which accordeth not therewith wee reiect it with their leaue and consent That the Scripture is neither hard nor obscure If they of the Romane Church reply that the holy Scripture is obscure and hard to be vnderstood Saint Augustine answereth them that wee more certainely wade or passe through the holy Scripture then through Traditions For when we will diligently search into it being darkened with some obscure words nothing wil ensue that can breed any difficulty or if there doe arise any difference or doubtfulnesse it must be at length cleared and decided by sundry more plaine testimonies of the same Scripture And indeed as the same ancient Father saith the holy Ghost hath so tempered and composed the Scripture that whatsoever seemeth obscure in one passage is more cleerly expounded in some other Wherefore the Reformed conclude for all the reasons afore-saide that this is the only meanes powerfull to satisfie and appease those two pretending or contending parties that is to say if endeavour be vsed to suppresse and decide by the pure Word of God the controversies aboue mentioned adiudging that alone to bee the true religion and Catholike Church which agreeth fully and wholy with the Word of God rightly expounded and vnderstood according to the same Word of God and the Analogie of the Articles of the Christian Faith The exception of the Church of Rome They of the Romane Church pondering these reasons of the Reformed Christians doe protest that albeit indeed they well perceiue the religion of the Reformed not much to decline from the written Word of God and if it wholly accord with the the same that yet they would not hold and pronounce the same Reformed religion to be good because say they the sayd Reformed religion was first set on foot and published by Heretikes and Doctors that were not sent by God nor had a lawfull calling and who were innovators and new devisors in religion The answer of the Reformed The Reformed Christians doe earnestly entreat