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A01335 Tvvo treatises written against the papistes the one being an answere of the Christian Protestant to the proud challenge of a popish Catholicke: the other a confutation of the popish churches doctrine touching purgatory & prayers for the dead: by William Fulke Doctor in diuinitie. Fulke, William, 1538-1589.; Allen, William, 1532-1594. Defense and declaration of the Catholike Churches doctrine, touching purgatory, and prayers for the soules departed.; Albin de Valsergues, Jean d', d. 1566. Notable discourse. 1577 (1577) STC 11458; ESTC S102742 447,814 588

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person A childe then of this houshold continuing in fauour though he can not euerlastingly perish with the impenitent sinners yet he must being not by some especial prerogatiue pardoned beare the rodde of his fathers discipline And gladly say with the prophet In flagella paratus sum I am ready for the roddes And whatsoeuer these wantons that are runne out of this house for their owne ease or other mennes flattery shal forge let vs continue in perpetuall cogitation of our sinnes forgeuen and by all meanes possible recompence our negligences past Let vs not think but God hath somewhat to say to vs euen for our offences pardoned being thus warned by ●is owne mouth Sed habeo aduersum te pauca quòd charitatem tuam primam reliquisti Memor esto itaque vnde excideris age poenitētiam prima opera fac But somewhat I haue against thee because thou art fallen from thy first loue Remembre therefore from whence thou fell do penaunce and beginne thy former workes againe And the consideration of this diuersitie betwixt remission had by baptisme and after relapse by the sacrament of penaunce moued Damascen to call this second remedie Baptismum vere laboriosum quod per poenitentiam lachrymas perficitur A kinde of Baptisme full of trauell by penaunce and teares to be wroght In which God so pardoneth sinnes that both the offence it selfe and the euerlasting paine due for the same being wholy by Christes death merites wyped away there may yet remaine the debt of temporal punishmēt on our parte to be discharged as well for some satisfactiō of Gods iustice against the eternal ordre wherof we vnworthely offended as for to aunswere the Church of her right as S. Austine saith in which only al sinnes be forgeuē Mary when occasion of satisfying for our offensies in this life is neglected or lacke of time by reason of longe continuance and late repentaunce suffereth not due recompense in our life which is the time of mercie then certes the hand of God shall be much more heuie and the punishment more greuous And this is with out doubt to be looked for that the debt due for sinne must either here by paine or pardon be discharged or els to our greater grief after our departure required CAP. I. 1 ALthough the argument of this chapter be but one yet I thought it good to diuide the answere into two partes The former part containeth his proposition the latter his confirmation And first concerning the sufficiency of Christes redemption there is nothing can be spoken so magnifically but that the worthines thereof passeth and excedeth it I will therefore agree with you in that you say of the comfort sufficiency and aboundant p●●ce of the death of Christ and I would you would alwayes agre with your selfe in the constant confession of the same truth I receaue also that which you affirme that the benefit of his death extendeth also to the members of his mystical body But in that which you make to be the onely meane whereby the same is conueyed and applyed vnto vs I can not but dissent from your iudgement For the meane on Gods behalfe by which we are made partakers of the fruites of Christes passion and so grafted into his body is his holy spirite of promise which is the earnest and assuraunce of our inheritaunce who worketh in vs fayth as the onely meane by which the righteousnes of Christ is applyed vnto vs Eph. 1. And as for the Sacraments which you seeme to make the onely condittes of Gods mercy we are taught in the holy Scriptures that they are the seales of Gods promises geuen for the confirmation of our fayth as was circumcision to Abraham when he was iustified before through faith Rom. 4. You will vs in the margent to marke the grounde of your cause which is in deede a good admonition For seeing the grounde of your cause leaneth vpon your onely affirmation and is contrary to thautority of Gods word iniurious to the spirite of God and neglecting the fayth of Christ what so euer you buyld thereuppon must needes be like the foundation But howe shoulde your free will be maintayned if Gods spirite had any place that distributeth to euery one according to the good pleasure of his owne will. 1. Cor. 12. And how should the Sacrament geue grace of the worke wrought if fayth were requisite in them that receiue them Of like authority it is which you say that like effect is not geuen to all the Sacramentes Surely all the Sacramentes of Christes institution haue lyke effect in Gods elect But let vs heare your difference By baptisme all sinne committed before and the punishment thereof is clearely forgeuen by the Sacrament of penaunce though the sinne be forgiuen yet there remayneth a temporal punishment When the Pope geueth a general pardon à poena culpa doth he not it by the sacrament of penaunce if he do it by that sacrament then are temporall paines also remitted therby Thus one falshod ouerthroweth an other But Christ you say the author of this sacrament meant not to communicate such efficacie ●o this as to Baptisme Here are two assertions first of the author then of the force of this Sacrament but neither of both able to be proued by the word of god Neuerthelesse here is brought in that which is thought to be the piller not onely of purgatory but also of all other popish satisfactions namely the chastisement and correction that God ministreth to his children whose sinnes he hath pardoned which is not a satisfaction for the sinnes past but a warning for the time to come and is neuer accompted in scripture for an answering of Gods iustice but a token of his mercy being not the punishment of a iudge but the chastisement of the father to the amendement of his childe that suffereth and for an admonition of other that they likewise offend not Heb 12. And after this manner are also those places to be vnderstood where God is sayd to punish the offences of his children But whereas M. Allen allegeth the saying of Christ vnto the Angell of the Church of Ephesus Apoc. 2. But I haue somewhat against thee c. to proue that God hath somewhat to say for our offences pardoned I maruell whether he were sleeping or waking when he wrote it for there the pastor and Church is charged for their offence which is not to be pardoned except they repent if they repent to be clearly remitted But 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 or age poenitentiam with M. Allen is doe penaunce doing of penaunce with him soundeth to make satisfaction He professeth in one place his ignoraunce in the Greeke tongue but if he would but acknowledge what poenitere in Latine signifieth to be sory he neede not to haue occupied him selfe in alleging that place But proceding a litle further he maketh two causes why the debt of temporall punishment remaineth to be