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ID	Title	Author	Corrected Date of Publication (TCP Date of Publication)	STC	Words	Pages
A26860	An answer to Mr. Dodwell and Dr. Sherlocke, confuting an universal humane church-supremacy aristocratical and monarchical, as church-tyranny and popery : and defending Dr. Isaac Barrow's treatise against it by Richard Baxter ; preparatory to a fuller treatise against such an universal soveraignty as contrary to reason, Christianity, the Protestant profession, and the Church of England, though the corrupters usurp that title.	Baxter, Richard, 1615-1691.	1682 (1682)	Wing B1184; ESTC R16768	131,071	189

you I intended none but such as were guilty and with being so I charged none particularly But that not only the old Puritans and Separatists of Queen Elizabeths times c. but also very many of ours now are guilty of them is too notorious to suppose you ignorant of it I could heartily wish that the number of better principled and more peaceable dissenters were greater than I fear it is Nor do I see that what is there said can make it unuseful even to the persons truly concerned that value truth more than any however beloved party seeing it may either let them see the ill consequence of their Principles and their influence on that Athei●m and Prophaneness which I am confident themselves do most cordially detest which I conceive to be more likely to prevail with them than other arguments as being more suited to their pious disp●sitions or supposing that my fears were indeed groundless of the introduction of prophaneness by the contempt of Government or of contempt of Government by their disobedience to it yet might it at least warn them from confining on such dangerous consequ●nces or from coming to them unawares by an abuse of Principles generally true but obnoxious to particular inconveniences when unwarily managed I mean it may put them in mind of the greater momentousness of good Government and peace than many of their differences and consequently of the great engagements incumbent on them for their preservation and that they would therefore so take care to oppose the particular abusive Constitutions of Government as not to bring their Government into contempt nor to sugg●st unanswerable Apologies to factious persons for the future when they are unwilling to be obedient These are abuses which I believe your self would wish redressed in the Causers of our Church-divisions But if it could not be useful to them yet could it not be prejudicial to them nothing being urged either invidiously or imperiously and therefore no harm being done if I should prove utterly mistaken That you should marvel how Reviving Discipline could by me be expected from the constitution of our present Ecclesiastical Government does seem no less marvellous to me especially as to the exception you make against it for if it were impossible to maintain Discipline under a Government so far Monarchical as to appropriate the Decretory power of the Government of many to a single person though the execution be intrusted to many then it would follow that the secular Discipline under a secular Monarch of any extent were impossible also to be observed seeing it is as impossible for any such Prince to have a particular cognizance of every particular Cause much more of every particular person in his Dominions as for a Bishop in his Diocess As there it appears by experience I shall instance in a Scripture-example because I know that will be liable to least exception that David in an extent more vast and a people more numerous th●n that of the largest Diocesses 120. Miles in length and 60 Miles in bre●dth and rather better in David's days where were accounted 1300000 men sit for War besides Artificers and such others not coming under that account was yet able to give a go●d account of his Government without particular inspection into all Causes or Communication of his pow●r to numerous co-ordinate Presbyteries so I do not see why it may not as well hold for a possibility of Discipline under an Ecclesiastical Monarch of a much narrower extent for the reason produced by you seems to proceed from the nature of Government in general and therefore must proceed with the same force in seculars as Ecclesiasticals there being no ingredient peculiarly rela●ing to Religion much less to Christianity which might alter the case or argue a disparity for certainly Princes as well as Bishops are responsible for the miscarriage of their particular ●ubjects for they may be prevented by moral diligence and yet you will not thence conclude that every particular must come under his immediate personal care and cognizance nor is it proved that the Bishop is otherwise obliged to such a care upon pe●uliar respects Besides that it is plainly against experience even in Ecclesistasticals for as it has fallen out in some places where there were many Cities the Bishops were propor●ionally multiplied as in Affrica and Ireland so that it was not upon account of the impossibility of managing the charge of much greater multitudes than the Inhabitants of those small Cities appears in that even in the very same places the greatness of no City was thought sufficient for multiplying the Bishops though it was for the Inferior Clergy I need not tell you how great Rome was and how full of Christians even in Decius's time under Cornelius which required the united endeavours of above a Thousand Clergies as appears from the said Cornelius's Epistle to Fabius of Antioch in Euseb. yet was one Bishop thought sufficient for all nay the erecting another in the same See was thought to be formal Schism as appears from the controversies of those Ages betwixt Cornelius and Novatian and St. Cyprian and Felicissimus The same also might have been shewn in several other Cities exceeding numerous and abounding with Christians as Antioch and Alexandria and Carthage c. which even in those early Ages when Discipline was at the greatest Rigour were yet Governed by single Bishops Nay whole Nations were sometimes Governed only by one as the Got●s by Vlpilas and the Indians by Aedesius and the Arabians by Moses which is an Argument insisted on by some Presbyterians for shewing the probability of Ordinations by bare Presby●●rs Y●t are there no complaints of dissolution of Discipline in such places upon account of the greatness of their charge which to me seem sufficient convictions that the multitude of persons governed is not the reason of our present neglects in that particular When I said that Ignatius's Epistles were questioned by the Presbyterians I never said nor intended it concerning all for I knew of Vedelius's Apology for them much less did I lay it particularly to your charge so that if you had here forborn assuming to your self what was spoken of others many of whose Opinions I am confident you will not undertake to justifie there had been no occasion of this exception That other Presbyterians and those by far the greatest number have denied them cannot be questioned As for the Reasons for Nonconformity alledged by you and your Brethren of the Savoy Conference in 1660. if I might without offence presume to interpose my own thoughts they are as followeth 1. For the approving not only submitting to such things as you disliked and that by an Oath I am sure there are many Conformists themselves that understand no more to have been intended by the Church but only an Exterior submission not an Internal Approbation of the Particulars And particularly I have been in●ormed by a Letter from a very worthy credible person who pretends to have had

benefit I have considered your Books you are confident of my erring and wronging the Church and I am as confident of yours that you are a Misleader of an extraordinary size that would set up an Vniversal humane Supreme Government which Protestants have taken for Popery and Treason against Christ and who falsly unchurch the Reformed Churches and deny them all Covenant-right to Salvation while you tol● me your self that It is not for the Christian Interest to hold th●● the Roman Bishops Ordination as you require it hath had an intercision Is it a crime to speak truth of you or a slander to say That the Doctrine of an Humane Absolute Vniversal Soveraignty is the most Fundamental part of Popery And is it no Sin or Slander for you to condemn so many Millions falsly even the purest and holiest of the Churches on Earth if not the whole by self-contradiction is it a damning sin not to feed cloath and visit in Prison one of Christ's little ones And is it a meritorious virtue in Mr. Dodwell to unchurch or unchristen or degrade if not condemn to Hell all the Reformed Churches nominally but not really excepting England Yea and to go about with a persecuting Spirit and Diligence to provoke Magistrates to lay them in Jayls with Rogues because they dare not give over Preaching the Gospel to which they were devoted in their Ordition Reproach●ng those Magistrates as Contemners of Religion who will not punish us as Deceivers as if it were not you that is the Deceiver Should I presume to judge that so many and such men through Christendom as you condemn were all so ignorant and so bad as not to know the common Verities necessary to the essence of the Ministry and to Salvation and that 't is I that can teach it them by such media as Mr Dodwell useth while he knoweth that Voetius hath answered a far abler Defender of his Cause I should sure be reputed a man so extremely proud as that no complemental humble deportment would excuse As for the Question Whether you are a Papist what obligation lieth on me to decide it Why should you expect that I should say you are none Do you not better know your self And is not your own word fitter to tell your minde I do but tell what your Doctrine is And I will speak so much plainer than I did as to say That 1. to hold a humane Universal Church-Supremacy Aristocratical or Monarchical 2. And that this Power is so absolute that there is no Appeal from it to Scripture or Gods Judgment 3. And that this Power doth make universal Laws for all the Church by General Councils 4. And that the Pope hath the Primacy or Presidentship in those Councils ordinarily 5. And that he is the Principium Vnitatis 6. And that it belongs to the President antecedently to call Councils and to him alone so that they are but unlawful Routs or rebellious if they assemble without his Call And that they are Schismaticks who dissent and disobey this Supremacy 8. And that the Reformed Churches for want of your Episcopal Ordination uninterrupted from the Apostles times are no true Churches have no true Ministry or Sacraments or Covenant-right to Salvation but by pretending them do sin against the Holy Ghost 9 But that the Church of Rome by vertue of an uninterrupted Episcopal Succession is a true Church hath a true Ministry and Sacraments and Covenant right to Salvation 10. And that the French-Church which we call Papists are safer than the Protestants there 11. And imply that the said French Clergy and the Councils of Constance and Basil were no Papists 12. And that the said Protestants being Schismaticks and sinning against the Holy Ghost the Magistrates that will not be Contemners of Religion are bound to punish them As if in England and France your bellows were needful to blow the fire These things asserted among you by Bishop Bramhall Heylin Mr. Thorndike and you and such others the Protestants have been hitherto used to call Popery But I will not dispute with you a mere question of the fitness of the name If you had rather call it Church Tyranny Cruelty or Diabolism And is all this a Virtue in you And is it a sin in me to defend Christ's flock and the true Unity of his Church and to detect such Deceivers and bear my testimony for Truth Love and Concord against such Dividers and Destroyers It 's a hard case then that such as ● are in that the more unfeignedly we desire to know God's Will and the more diligently and impartially we study it and the more it costeth us the greater sinners we are And no sins have been so loudly charged on me as Praying and Preaching the Gospel and laborious vindicating God's Truth and Servants It doth not follow if you hate them or would have them ruined that every man sinneth that doth not as you do And whereas you would get some countenance to your Writings by the name of Dr. Stillingfleet as having perused them c. Either he is or is not of your mind If not this doth but adde to your deceit If he be your Cause will do more against the Conscience and Reputation of Dr. Stillingfleet than far greater Parts and Reputation than his can do for your Cause And Sir what should I get should I give a Voluminous Answer to all your books When I have confuted you as far as I have done I have but lost my labour The Church-men that I hear from despise it and say What is Mr. Dodwell to us He is an unordained man he knoweth why and his book was rejected by the Bishop of London His opinions are odd and the Church of England is not of his mind Yea Mr. Cheny would perswade us that you are a singular contemned fellow But it 's a useful way to set such an one as you to do mens business and to boast as Dr Sherlocke and Mr. Morrice do of your performance and yet to disown you when their cause requireth it But it is an abuse of us that dissent from you to connive only at your published Books and then to boast of them as unanswerable And when we have lost our precious time in shewing their deceit and schismatical Love-destroying tendency then to say to us You have done nothing VVhat is this to us Mr. Dodwell is an odd disowned man and none of the English Clergy If God and Conscience would give me leave I could presently be a good man and a pardoned sinner with you It is but honouring you and saying as you say I could so be extoll'd by almost any Sect Papist Quaker c. But it must be but by one for all the rest would nevertheless revile accuse me and condemn me as you do the Protestant Churches And the Quakers like you say we sin against the Holy Ghost The old Sabbatarian Dr. before-named in his first Letter accused me as aforesaid and when I profest my self