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A10609 A remonstrance: or plaine detection of some of the faults and hideous sores of such sillie syllogismes and impertinent allegations, as out of sundrie factious pamphlets and rhapsodies, are cobled vp together in a booke, entituled, A demonstration of discipline wherein also, the true state of the controuersie of most of the points in variance, is (by the way) declared. Sutcliffe, Matthew, 1550?-1629, attributed name. 1590 (1590) STC 20881; ESTC S115774 171,783 224

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epistles when he heard but by hearesay contentions were risen amongst them he suppressed the contentions The 6. Demonstration If the ministers of the gospel bee as narrowly tied to their charges as the priests of the lawe then they may not be non resident Demonstration for they were alway readie in the temple to answere doubts 1. Sam. 19. But c. Ergo Eodem modo opponenti eodem modo respondendum est Remonstrance For him that hath but one manner play one manner of defense is good ynough This argument of Type and proportion is sure to be one An impudent man will neuer be answered I answere as before Gods law and nature dispense with non residence in diuerse cases although the one and the other be narrowly tyed to the ministerie vnder the gospell and the lawe To the Prosyllogisme For they were alwayes ready c. Here is a good Illatiue 1. Sam. 9. Ely the priest sat vpon a stoole by one of the posts of the temple of the Lord ergo what Ergo Ely was tied to residencie in the temple all exigencie of busines whatsoeuer layd apart as it were vnto a post Or as well thus Ely the priest in the temple sate vpon a stoole Ergo a man may say to one of you for making this wise argument Accipe stultum et sede take a stoole and be resident continually vpon it Why man they did not lie in the temple but had their seuerall habitations and they waited in course as appeareth in the story of Zacharie in S. Luke The 7. Demonstration If the minister must be an example Demonstration then he must be present but the first is true Ergo the second By these like arguments Remonstrance the ministers must be pinned vpon the peoples sleeue as for the place alleadged 1. tim 4.12 Timothie was an example 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 as well absent as present It is the image of the vertue not so much the corporall presence that serueth for imitation Hath not Christ left vs an example of himselfe because he is not corporally present The 8. Demonstration He whome the people must know by the voyce Demonstration and follow in and out must be continually resident But the first is true Ioh. 10.4 Ergo To the Maior Vpon this phrase of speach continuall residence Remonstrance I distinguish There is continuall in time and there is a residence to be continued for the discharge of the dutie of the cure A man may be a resiant and do no office seruice but bodily reside vpon the cure as many of those vnlettered reformitans velut incubus succubus lye vpon and vnder the cure as a burden and vnder a burden To the Minor As for the place of Iohn it is meant of Christ who is the high shepheard and Bishop of the church vnto whose perfection wee must drawe our selues neere The 9. Demonstration None can be ready to feede his flocke that is absent Demonstration Euery minister must be ready to feede his flocke Ergo. To the Maior This silly argument is answered before being all one with the 1. Remonstrance Demonstration of this 3. cap. His readinesse may be per se aut vicaria fide By himselfe or his sufficient deputie The Demonstrator is like to Anaxagoras Anaxagoras vocem suam ignorauit forgetteth his own word and voice In steade of vrging continuall residence here is nothing else but continuall Tautologie The 10. Demonstration He that must take heede to his flocke must be resident continually Demonstration Euery minister must to so Act. 20.28 ergo To the Maior The maior is true leauing out the word continually and with the former limitations Remonstrance The minor out of the acts 20. must bee vnderstood for attendance on the flocke with the due exceptions if his employment may be there with most conuenience of doing good be it ouer a whole prouince or in a particular church for else howe durst S. Paul haue at that time sent for them out of their cures and if it had bene but for an houre The 11. Demonstration If Sathan bee the cause of non residence then it is vtterly vnlawfull Demonstration But Sathan is the cause 1. Thes 2.17 18. Ergo. To the Maior Although Sathan c. yet it is not vtterly vnlawfull Remonstrance for albeit Sathan may bee cause of retchlesnesse and carelesnesse in some Sathan is not cause of non residence in all This maior seemeth to import this Whatsoeuer Sathan is the cause of is vtterly vnlawfull To giue an instance Sathan was the cause of Christs setting vpon a pinnacle of the temple ergo Christ standing vpon a pinnacle of the temple is vtterly vnlawfull by this plausible maior Sathan is the cause of persecution and chaines yet to suffer persecution and chaines is not vnrighteous and vnlawfull To the Minor Sathan out of that 1. thes 1.17.18 v. is the cause of non residencie Demonstrator maketh S. Paul write false diuinitie saith the demonstrator These ioly gentlemen make S. Paul write good diuinitie Sathan hindered me that is caused me to do an vngodly and vnlawfull thing viz. to be a non resident nay rather vnderstand S. Paul thus Sathan raised persecution against me or sometimes Sathan causeth persecution persecution feare feare feeblenesse of faith and timorousnesse of conscience that same in weake brethren causeth loue of the present world consequently a finall vtter discontinuance which you may rather say to be the cause of dissolute non residence which God forbid you should rightly deeme to haue bene in S. Paul The 12. Demonstration That which abridgeth the loue of God to his people Demonstration and comfort to his minister that is vnlawfull but non residence c. Ergo. This the next demostrations are far fetcht worth nothing Remonstrance To the Minor Answere is non residence or absence for a time in some regard for the greater good of other congregations doth rather procure the fauour of God and consolation of the whole estate of Christes church And therefore a false minor The 13. Demonstration That which hindereth loue betweene the minister and the people Demonstration that is vnlawfull But non residence c. Ergo What an easie way of demonstration hath the demonstrator attayned vnto Remonstrance To the Maior The maior is not precisely true for to reprooue the people of their faultes and to rebuke them sharply maketh lesse loue betweene some people and the minister which neuerthelesse is a thing most lawfull Non residencie amongst some of your sectaries would be a cause of more loue and charitie amongst gods people some amongst you being firebrands of sedition and therefore better is your roome then company To the Minor All absence with deputation of an able minister effecteth neither so nor so The 14. Demonstration To be absent from those who haue neede of vs Demonstration
Episcopo suo nec Ecclesiasticam disciplinam cum fide quiete iuxta praecepta Domini continerent vt relictis Domini sacerdotibus contra Euangelicam disciplinam noua traditio sacrilegae institutionis exurgat Note whether these wordes of Cyprian concerne not our times Nowe it is cleare whence T. C. his faction ariseth howe it tooke rooting howe it is hardened He and his crue haue withdrawne certaine who of good zeale professe the name of Christ from the loue and obedience of their Superior or Pastor or Bishop and haue dangerously drawne them into contempt of Ecclesiasticall discipline to breake from the faith and allegeance of the Lordes precepts that by forsaking of the Lorde his Priestes contrarie to the Euangelicall discipline they might begin a newe platforme of sacrilegious institution of their own discipline Obserue last of all that Ecclesiasticall discipline Euangelicall discipline which S. Cyprian soundeth farre otherwise then the newe Tetrarchie of Doctors Pastors Elders and Deacons discipline for it is taken for the doctrine of Christ and his Apostles Yet here of by the way we gather that such as breake foorth from the Bishops gouernment and censures as our schismatikes doe with greatest contempt that may be doe offend against the commandements and the doctrine or discipline of the Gospell and therefore a superioritie of Bishops is a diuine institution by Cyprians iudgement who liued not very long after the Apostles times I might answere Allegare non est probare Allegation is no demonstration least of all of humane authoritie And all this may be granted and nothing gained to the cause Dominus Demonstrator doeth passe away in cloudes of generalitie and concludeth not the question So that in steede of 18. demonstrations there are 18. monsters some without head some without taile some without middle others without arme all without harme not able to affright the veriest foole that is with so much as a false feare of loosing the impregnable fort of the trueth of our cause * ⁎ * CAPVT SECVNDVM IN the second chapter followe certaine Maximes of their own or certaine Oracles of one T. C. tanquam ex tripode which if you will not take vpon T.C. his credite you may take it vpon the credite of 20. letters or take vnto you the whole Alphabet to make demonstrations thereby The 1. Proposition No calling is lawfull but which is directly warranted out of the worde to him that executeth it Demonstration The 2. Proposition The name and office of an Archbishop is contrarie to the worde of God The 3. Proposition No man may be ordeined to an office vntill a place be voide as he is fit for Euery one of these propositions hath a speciall aime to the vsuall intended markes of a cauilling Sophister Remonstrance The 1. is 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 or meere trifling Aristot de reprehens Soph. as Aristotle saith 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 Like as a Cuckow to sing alwaies one song as in the former Chapter the Demonstrator trifleth vp and downe The 2. is 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 a false or starke staring lie 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 to make a demonstration of a lie The 3. is 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 a meere Paradoxe which neuer any but of this newe fantasie said before The saying is A three twisted corde will not easily breake asunder but this thrise twisted cable knappeth asunder If the Demonstrator will onely propound we may lawfully returne these propositions home againe 1. No calling is lawfull but directly warranted to him that executeth it All lay Presbyteri or vnpreaching eldership with the authoritie they attribute vnto it is vnwarranted directly by Gods worde to them that doe execute it Ergo No such calling is lawfull 2. No name of Superioritie for order and 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 in the Church is contrary to the worde The name and office of Archbyshop Archdeacon Deanes are such names and offices of Superioritie Ergo No names and offices of Archbyshop Archdeacon c. are contrary to the worde 3. Paul Barnabas Epaphroditus Andronicus Iunius and others were not forth with limited to a certaine place But Paul Barnabas Philip c. were ordeined Ministers Ergo Certaine were ordeined Ministers not limitted to a place The 1. Demonstration which is a reason of this 1. redoubted Proposition If Iohn were constrained to prooue his ministerie out of the worde when the Priestes accused him Demonstration Then there is no lawfull calling but warranted in the worde but he prooued his calling Ergo no calling lawfull but which is warranted in the worde To the Antecedent This fallacie is 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 of the consequent Remonstrance The sequele of the Antecedent is to be denyed which is in plainer termes this vz. There is no calling in the newe but is first warranted by some prophecie of the olde Testament To the Assumption But he prooued his ministerie Whether he prooued or did not prooue whether he were accused or not accused the ministerie of Iohn was a lawful ministerie their impeachment there of was not to hinder the execution of his ministerie The warrant rather is the immediate commission from heauen and the prophecie that went of him to exercise his ministerie Howe followeth the Argument à facto adius Or from their constraint to the warrantize of his calling If any proofe should be drawen for or against it can bee other in consequence then this One extraordinarie Minister did vpon occasion of those that cauilled at him prooue his extraordinarie calling out of the worde of God Then euery ordinarie Minister may against wranglers prooue his ordinarie ministerie out of the worde to be the ordinance of God Euen so doe we Or this Iohannes confessus est non negauit Iohn 1.20 Iohn did confesse and denyed not confessed who he was and denied not who hee was Euen so in humilitie we ought to doe and semblably doe Vnlesse it please you to argue after this sort out of the text These things were done in Bethany or Bethabara beyond Iordan or Iohn proued his ministerie in Bethany or Bethabara beyonde Iordan Ergo your ministerie must be proued in Bethany beyond Iordan O then your reason hath a further fetch beyond or on the other side of Iericho or Iordan Or else better after this sort Iohn exercised his ministerie and proued it too without warrantie of an outwarde calling of any that sate in Moses chaire for the people helde him for a Prophet Ergo you haue an exercise of your ministerie without an outwarde calling and may runne before you are sent and the people holde your prophecie and baptisme to be true But this will sauour strongly of Anabaptisme I trowe The 2. Demonstration The callings vnder the Gospel must haue as good warrant as the callings vnder the Law Demonstration But all callings vnder the Lawe except miraculous had direct warrant Ergo. Ridetur chorda qui semper oberrat eadem Remonstrance A