Selected quad for the lemma: cause_n

Word A	Word B	Word C	Word D	Occurrence	Frequency Band	MI	MI Band	Prominent
cause_n	ability_n	able_a	think_v	32	3	3.7620	3	false

Text snippets containing the quad

ID	Title	Author	Corrected Date of Publication (TCP Date of Publication)	STC	Words	Pages
A93884	The second part of the duply to M.S. alias Two brethren. Wherein are maintained the Kings, Parliaments, and all civil magistrates authority about the Church. Subordination of ecclesiasticall judicatories. Refuted the independency of particular congregations. Licentiousnesse of wicked conscience, and toleration of all sorts of most detestable schismes, heresies and religions; as, idolatry, paganisme, turcisme, Judaisme, Arrianisme, Brownisme, anabaptisme, &c. which M.S. maintain in their book. With a brief epitome and refutation of all the whole independent-government. Most humbly submitted to the Kings most excellent Majestie. To the most Honorable Houses of Parliament. The most Reverend and learned Divines of the Assembly. And all the Protestant churches in this island and abroad. By Adam Steuart. Octob. 3. 1644. Imprimatur Ja: Cranford.; Duply to M.S. alias Two brethren. Part 2.	Steuart, Adam.	1644 (1644)	Wing S5491; Thomason E20_7; ESTC R2880	197,557	205

better_o their_o cause_n fave_v only_o that_o it_o be_v naught_o it_o be_v true_o a_o strange_a thing_n that_o man_n of_o so_o great_a ability_n shall_v be_v able_a to_o say_v no_o more_o for_o themselves_o 8._o and_o since_o you_o m.s._n and_o they_o be_v so_o able_a will_v you_o or_o they_o i_o pray_v condescend_v to_o some_o private_a meeting_n with_o some_o of_o the_o presbyterian_o that_o it_o may_v be_v see_v who_o have_v the_o best_a cause_n and_o whether_o or_o no_o all_o your_o deep_a learning_n and_o great_a skill_n in_o sophistication_n wherein_o you_o so_o excel_v can_v set_v any_o probable_a show_n or_o face_n of_o reason_n upon_o your_o opinion_n which_o you_o hold_v to_o be_v no_o less_o than_o god_n reveal_v word_n m._n s._n answer_v 3._o better_o a_o door_n open_v to_o all_o sort_n of_o erroneous_a opinion_n yea_o and_o to_o many_o other_o inconvenience_n great_a than_o this_o then_o that_o the_o guilt_n of_o any_o persecution_n or_o of_o any_o evil_a entreat_n of_o the_o saint_n and_o people_n of_o god_n shall_v cleave_v unto_o the_o people_n or_o state_n a._n s._n this_o m._n s._n suppose_v 1._o that_o the_o independent_o be_v the_o saint_n 2._o and_o that_o in_o case_n they_o be_v not_o tolerate_v in_o establish_v public_o their_o church_n government_n and_o other_o tenet_n in_o despite_n of_o church_n and_o parliament_n both_o in_o the_o church_n and_o state_n that_o it_o be_v no_o less_o than_o the_o guilt_n of_o persecution_n against_o the_o saint_n draw_v upon_o the_o state_n 3._o that_o it_o be_v better_a that_o all_o the_o heresy_n of_o the_o world_n and_o worse_o shall_v creep_v into_o the_o church_n then_o that_o they_o shall_v not_o be_v tolerate_v but_o chastise_v in_o case_n they_o trouble_v the_o peace_n of_o either_o church_n or_o state_n i_o answer_v that_o all_o that_o m._n s._n here_o say_v be_v damnable_a untruth_n and_o that_o it_o be_v better_a that_o all_o the_o independent_o of_o this_o world_n be_v in_o america_n and_o that_o ten_o thousand_o time_n worse_o shall_v befall_v they_o then_o that_o the_o good_a name_n of_o god_n shall_v be_v dishonour_v by_o filthy_a heresy_n and_o if_o the_o independent_o have_v any_o fear_n of_o god_n before_o their_o eye_n and_o love_v not_o themselves_o better_a a_o great_a deal_n then_o god_n glory_n they_o will_v rather_o desire_v with_o moses_n to_o be_v scrape_v out_o of_o the_o book_n of_o life_n or_o with_o paul_n to_o be_v separate_v from_o christ_n then_o that_o christ_n church_n shall_v so_o suffer_v or_o god_n bless_a name_n be_v so_o dishonour_v a._n s._n 2._o reason_n it_o be_v dangerous_a for_o the_o state_n it_o may_v breed_v faction_n and_o division_n betwixt_o all_o person_n of_o whatsoever_o relation_n betwixt_o the_o magistrate_n and_o the_o subject_a the_o husband_n and_o the_o wife_n the_o father_n and_o the_o son_n brethren_n and_o sister_n the_o master_n and_o the_o servant_n when_o the_o one_o be_v of_o one_o religion_n or_o ecclesiastical_a government_n and_o the_o other_o of_o another_o as_o you_o yea_o to_o your_o no_o very_a great_a advantage_n have_v experiment_a it_o several_a time_n the_o son_n may_v refuse_v to_o receive_v any_o communion_n with_o the_o father_n and_o the_o brother_n with_o the_o brother_n to_o the_o utter_a dissolution_n of_o all_o natural_a civil_a and_o domestical_a bond_n of_o society_n and_o the_o reason_n of_o this_o may_v be_v because_o the_o one_o may_v excommunicate_v the_o other_o as_o daily_a experience_n testify_v m._n s._n the_o shadow_n of_o the_o mountain_n seem_v man_n unto_o you_o judg._n 9.36_o a._n s._n so_o say_v zebul_n the_o servant_n of_o abimelech_n the_o son_n of_o the_o concubine_n who_o by_o a_o conspiracy_n with_o the_o schichemite_n be_v make_v king_n and_o afterward_o murder_v his_o brethren_n and_o yet_o they_o be_v man_n viz._n wicked_a abimelech_n with_o his_o army_n and_o no_o shadow_n of_o mountain_n m._n s._n will_v have_v we_o live_v in_o security_n and_o will_v rather_o tolerate_v socinianism_n arminianism_n yea_o judaism_n and_o mahumetanism_n then_o that_o his_o own_o sect_n shall_v not_o be_v tolerate_v of_o so_o large_a a_o conscience_n be_v he_o a.s._n it_o may_v breed_v faction_n etc._n etc._n m.s._n but_o a._n s._n his_o may_n may_v possible_o not_o come_v in_o a_o age_n no_o nor_o in_o many_o generation_n and_o will_v he_o have_v so_o many_o thousand_o of_o the_o dear_a people_n of_o god_n as_o do_v apologise_v to_o eat_v their_o bread_n in_o darkness_n and_o he_o say_v heretofore_o that_o may_v come_v but_o once_o a_o year_n a.s._n it_o be_v subtle_o argue_v m.s._n of_o you_o with_o your_o may_n but_o it_o be_v too_o much_o that_o such_o a_o may_v come_v once_o a_o year_n or_o once_o in_o a_o age_n and_o better_a be_v it_o ten_o thousand_o of_o you_o shall_v perish_v than_o god_n be_v so_o offend_v for_o it_o be_v a_o maxim_n in_o divinity_n quodvis_fw-la malum_fw-la paenae_fw-la etiam_fw-la maximum_fw-la eligendum_fw-la potius_fw-la quàm_fw-la minimum_fw-la malum_fw-la culpae_fw-la nam_fw-la quaevis_fw-la culpa_fw-la pejor_fw-la quavis_fw-la poenâ_fw-la 2._o but_o i_o pray_v you_o learn_v of_o i_o that_o as_o impossibile_fw-it morale_fw-mi in_o moral_a matter_n such_o as_o this_o whereof_o we_o dispute_v be_v not_o that_o which_o never_o but_o which_o rare_o or_o hardly_o fall_v out_o so_o be_v possibile_fw-la morale_fw-la idem_fw-la quod_fw-la facilè_fw-la which_o easy_o and_o oftentimes_o fall_v out_o and_o not_o that_o fall_v out_o but_o once_o in_o a_o age_n and_o that_o it_o fall_v out_o so_o very_o oft_o we_o may_v prove_v it_o by_o the_o division_n in_o france_n the_o netherlands_o germany_n poland_n transilvania_n etc._n etc._n what_o i_o pray_v transport_v the_o crown_n of_o swede_n from_o the_o nephew_n to_o the_o uncle_n what_o move_v a_o king_n of_o spain_n to_o consent_v to_o his_o own_o son_n death_n what_o be_v the_o cause_n of_o so_o great_a a_o war_n betwixt_o the_o turk_n and_o the_o persian_a and_o final_o what_o be_v the_o cause_n of_o this_o our_o present_a war_n but_o the_o favour_v of_o popery_n the_o negotiation_n with_o rome_n our_o agent_n there_o father_n con_n and_o the_o pope_n nuncio_n here_o 2._o you_o be_v not_o so_o many_o thousand_o as_o you_o brag_v of_o save_v in_o london_n and_o a_o few_o mile_n about_o it_o your_o sect_n i_o think_v may_v easy_o be_v count_v by_o hundred_o and_o as_o for_o the_o remote_a part_n of_o the_o kingdom_n they_o be_v unknown_a creature_n to_o they_o 3._o if_o they_o be_v so_o dear_a to_o god_n they_o can_v never_o qua_fw-la tale_n suffer_v for_o so_o wicked_a a_o cause_n as_o for_o all_o licentiousness_n in_o religion_n 4._o they_o need_v not_o to_o suffer_v if_o they_o will_v not_o be_v turbulent_a but_o quiet_a and_o submit_v unto_o the_o law_n of_o the_o kingdom_n and_o such_o a_o ecclesiastical_a government_n as_o in_o god_n mercy_n shall_v be_v establish_v in_o the_o church_n what_o a_o sauciness_n be_v this_o that_o they_o will_v be_v content_a with_o nothing_o unless_o in_o despite_n of_o church_n and_o state_n they_o may_v do_v what_o they_o will_v 5._o as_o for_o his_o rhetorication_n in_o tell_v i_o that_o i_o be_o breed_v of_o rock_n and_o suck_v the_o milk_n of_o tiger_n all_o that_o shall_v not_o hinder_v i_o to_o maintain_v that_o the_o independent_o must_v be_v subject_a to_o order_n and_o authority_n both_o civil_a and_o ecclesiastical_a as_o other_o man_n be_v or_o else_o suffer_v for_o their_o turbulent_a humour_n m._n s._n i_o will_v know_v of_o he_o whether_o he_o deem_v himself_o to_o be_v of_o another_o religion_n than_o the_o apologist_n if_o so_o candorem_fw-la tuum_fw-la a.s._n in_o that_o malignant_a expression_n etc._n etc._n a.s._n as_o for_o my_o religion_n you_o may_v know_v it_o m.s._n it_o be_v that_o which_o be_v declare_v in_o the_o confession_n of_o the_o church_n of_o scotland_n england_n the_o netherlands_o france_n etc._n etc._n but_o as_o for_o you_o sed_fw-la vos_fw-la qui_fw-la tandem_fw-la quibus_fw-la aut_fw-la venistis_fw-la ab_fw-la eris_fw-la quouè_fw-la tenetis_fw-la iter_fw-la that_o i_o know_v not_o and_o consequent_o whether_o i_o be_v of_o your_o religion_n or_o not_o you_o will_v have_v no_o confession_n of_o faith_n or_o discipline_n but_o what_o you_o may_v change_v fidem_fw-la diariam_fw-la aut_fw-la ad_fw-la summum_fw-la menstruam_fw-la such_o as_o you_o may_v change_v with_o every_o moon_n but_o to_o come_v more_o near_o to_o the_o point_n i_o pray_v you_o set_v forth_o a_o confession_n of_o faith_n in_o the_o name_n of_o all_o the_o independent_a church_n and_o subscribe_v all_o of_o you_o that_o you_o will_v stand_v to_o it_o and_o then_o i_o will_v answer_v your_o question_n if_o you_o will_v not_o here_o i_o will_v give_v you_o the_o best_a satisfaction_n i_o can_v and_o it_o be_v this_o viz._n

be_v discuss_v in_o those_o judicatories_n 3._o they_o have_v more_o in_o our_o way_n for_o they_o have_v our_o confession_n of_o faith_n and_o our_o discipline_n write_v or_o in_o print_n and_o may_v study_v it_o every_o day_n at_o home_n which_o be_v not_o usual_a among_o the_o independent_o who_o be_v never_o resolve_v neither_o in_o their_o confession_n of_o faith_n nor_o in_o their_o government_n neither_o will_v they_o have_v any_o one_o common_a to_o all_o their_o church_n if_o private_a christian_n desire_v more_o than_o this_o they_o may_v go_v to_o the_o university_n 4._o this_o argument_n strike_v at_o the_o government_n of_o the_o state_n that_o of_o the_o old_a testament_n and_o at_o the_o proceed_n of_o the_o apostle_n act._n 15._o and_o 16._o m._n s._n his_o 6._o arg._n in_o substance_n be_v that_o the_o premise_n whereupon_o conclusion_n be_v ground_v can_v be_v so_o well_o know_v and_o examine_v in_o class_n and_o synod_n as_o in_o a_o independent_a congregation_n wherein_o the_o matter_n be_v pass_v ergo_fw-la it_o shall_v be_v judge_v there_o and_o not_o in_o class_n synod_n etc._n etc._n a._n s._n 1._o this_o argument_n as_o the_o rest_n conclude_v as_o well_o against_o the_o proceed_n in_o civil_a judicatories_n that_o of_o the_o church_n of_o the_o old_a testament_n that_o at_o antiochia_n and_o at_o hierusalens_n as_o against_o the_o presbyterian_a way_n 2._o among_o we_o the_o business_n be_v first_o examine_v before_o the_o parochial_a presbytery_n or_o session_n where_o all_o the_o premise_n may_v be_v as_o well_o try_v as_o in_o the_o independent_a congregation_n and_o in_o case_n of_o appeal_v they_o may_v be_v carry_v to_o the_o class_n or_o synod_n 3._o what_o if_o the_o difference_n be_v betwixt_o two_o divers_a church_n or_o two_o person_n of_o divers_a church_n and_o the_o premise_n be_v action_n or_o offence_n commit_v out_o of_o both_o the_o church_n then_o in_o such_o a_o case_n the_o business_n can_v be_v prove_v in_o any_o of_o the_o church_n what_o if_o the_o business_n need_v no_o proof_n but_o be_v some_o scandalous_a doctrinc_n m._n s._n add_v that_o for_o brevity_n sake_n he_o will_v not_o strengthen_v his_o argument_n as_o he_o may_v a._n s._n and_o in_o this_o we_o praise_v his_o prudence_n in_o publish_v unto_o the_o world_n such_o frivolous_a argument_n yea_o that_o have_v not_o so_o much_o as_o any_o apparent_a probability_n in_o they_o whether_o a_o independent_a government_n ought_v to_o be_v tolerate_v in_o this_o kingdom_n to_o the_o end_n we_o may_v proceed_v clear_o in_o this_o question_n it_o be_v to_o be_v note_v that_o by_o this_o kingdom_n i_o mean_v the_o kingdom_n of_o england_n wherein_o this_o government_n have_v never_o yet_o be_v receive_v 2._o it_o be_v to_o be_v note_v that_o a_o toleration_n be_v either_o positiuè_n whereby_o positive_o by_o law_n actual_a consent_n approbation_n or_o otherways_o we_o receive_v or_o give_v way_n to_o any_o thing_n or_o negatiuè_fw-la when_o neither_o by_o any_o posicive_a act_n law_n actual_a consent_n or_o approbation_n we_o give_v way_n to_o any_o thing_n but_o only_o actual_o we_o oppose_v it_o not_o make_v no_o law_n against_o it_o dissent_v not_o reprove_v it_o not_o etc._n etc._n again_o both_o the_o one_o and_o the_o other_o be_v either_o of_o particular_a man_n or_o of_o church_n and_o again_o that_o of_o particular_a man_n either_o simple_o to_o enjoy_v their_o conscience_n in_o not_o oblige_v they_o to_o be_v actor_n in_o any_o thing_n against_o the_o light_n thereof_o or_o to_o give_v they_o leave_v free_o to_o discourse_v upon_o all_o occasion_n with_o other_o concern_v their_o tenet_n yea_o though_o it_o be_v to_o seduce_v they_o 3._o it_o it_o be_v again_o to_o be_v note_v that_o by_o independent_a government_n i_o mean_v that_o whereby_o every_o particular_a congregation_n be_v so_o govern_v that_o every_o member_n thereof_o have_v a_o hand_n in_o it_o and_o all_o the_o part_n of_o it_o and_o so_o as_o not_o to_o acknowledge_v any_o ecclesiastical_a power_n in_o this_o world_n above_o it_o the_o state_n of_o the_o question_n than_o be_v whether_o such_o independent_o shall_v have_v any_o positive_a or_o negative_a but_o principal_o a_o positive_a toleration_n not_o only_o for_o their_o person_n but_o also_o for_o their_o church_n in_o this_o kingdon_n wherein_o they_o be_v not_o yet_o admit_v m._n s._n with_o the_o rest_n of_o his_o sect_n the_o brownist_n anabaptist_n antinomian_o familist_n arminian_o servetist_n socinian_o and_o other_o sect_n in_o this_o kingdom_n maintain_v the_o affirmative_a but_o the_o orthodox_n stand_v for_o the_o negative_a the_o reason_n for_o the_o orthodox_n part_n may_v be_v these_o that_o follow_v 1._o such_o a_o toleration_n can_v but_o open_v a_o door_n to_o all_o sort_n of_o erroneous_a opinion_n m._n s._n deni_v this_o assumption_n for_o say_v he_o by_o the_o same_o reason_n he_o that_o receive_v one_o discreet_a servant_n into_o his_o house_n must_v receive_v all_o prince_n rupert_n troop_n to_o rack_v and_o manger_n with_o he_o a._n s._n but_o m._n s._n understand_v not_o or_o take_v upon_o he_o that_o he_o understand_v not_o my_o argument_n for_o my_o meaning_n be_v not_o as_o he_o misconstrueth_n it_o that_o by_o the_o same_o reason_n all_o other_o sect_n must_v be_v admit_v which_o be_v my_o four_o reason●●_n a_o pari_fw-la but_o that_o independency_n be_v once_o receive_v into_o the_o state_n it_o will_v per_fw-la se_fw-la and_o naturâ_fw-la suâ_fw-la of_o itself_o open_v a_o door_n to_o all_o sort_n of_o erroneous_a opinion_n which_o be_v a_o argument_n not_o a_o pari_fw-la as_o the_o other_o but_o a_o causâ_fw-la ad_fw-la effectum_fw-la for_o if_o the_o independent_a church_n acknowledge_v no_o superior_a ecclesiastical_a power_n and_o that_o the_o civil_a magistrate_n in_o good_a conscience_n can_v punish_v they_o then_o in_o case_n any_o or_o many_o of_o they_o fall_v into_o heresy_n it_o will_v open_v a_o door_n to_o heresy_n 2._o m._n s._n answer_v that_o a_o toleration_n of_o independency_n will_v be_v a_o effectual_a mean_n of_o chase_v away_o of_o erroneous_a opinion_n a._n s._n this_o be_v but_o a_o strong_a imagination_n of_o m._n s._n which_o may_v as_o easy_o be_v deny_v by_o we_o upon_o our_o reason_n here_o above_o allege_v as_o it_o be_v bold_o assert_v by_o he_o without_o any_o reason_n at_o all_o as_o for_o that_o which_o he_o cit_v out_o of_o my_o book_n that_o i_o acknowledge_v they_o for_o man_n of_o ability_n sufficient_a enough_o to_o dispute_v their_o opinion_n a._n s._n i_o have_v answer_v this_o sundry_a time_n 1._o it_o be_v but_o a_o judgement_n of_o one_o man_n 2._o but_o a_o judgement_n of_o charity_n which_o howbeit_o it_o be_v practical_o true_a yet_o oftentimes_o it_o prove_v speculative_o false_a 3._o it_o be_v not_o a_o certain_a but_o a_o probable_a judgement_n whereof_o he_o do_v not_o well_o to_o brag_v so_o much_o 4._o howbeit_o they_o may_v not_o want_v ability_n to_o dispute_v probable_o yet_o may_v they_o want_v ability_n to_o demonstrate_v their_o opinion_n theological_o yea_o neither_o all_o they_o nor_o ten_o thousand_o such_o as_o m.s._n with_o they_o shall_v ever_o be_v able_a to_o bring_v any_o strong_a argument_n for_o any_o one_o of_o their_o tenet_n that_o they_o hold_v against_o we_o 5._o if_o they_o have_v so_o great_a ability_n to_o dispute_v their_o opinion_n the_o devil_n have_v yet_o great_a can_v able_a lawyer_n dispute_v very_o well_o a_o very_a ill_a cause_n know_v you_o not_o what_o be_v say_v of_o a_o very_a able_a man_n vbi_fw-la benè_fw-la nemo_fw-la meliùs_fw-la ubi_fw-la malè_fw-la nemo_fw-la pejùs_fw-la true_o you_o dispute_v with_o such_o heat_n and_o ardency_n for_o the_o independent_a learning_n and_o godliness_n that_o it_o seem_v almost_o the_o only_a quarrel_n you_o have_v against_o we_o whether_o you_o be_v the_o learn_a and_o godly_a man_n in_o this_o kingdom_n or_o not_o you_o and_o they_o seem_v to_o maintain_v the_o affirmative_a at_o least_o concern_v the_o last_o part_n of_o this_o thesis_n if_o not_o both_o and_o scarce_o see_v we_o any_o book_n of_o independency_n set_v forth_o wherein_o we_o see_v not_o great_a complaìnt_n that_o their_o ability_n be_v not_o high_a enough_o prize_v and_o what_o they_o say_v of_o their_o pretend_a piety_n all_o the_o world_n know_v whereas_o your_o pretend_a adversary_n speak_v never_o a_o word_n but_o of_o the_o cause_n unless_o they_o be_v provoke_v by_o the_o vain_a and_o exorbitant_a praise_n that_o you_o ever_o and_o anon_o undeserved_o bestow_v upon_o yourselves_o 6._o but_o how_o able_a soever_o you_o or_o they_o be_v yet_o for_o they_o it_o be_v clear_a the_o assembly_n have_v divers_a time_n put_v they_o to_o a_o nonplus_n 7._o and_o if_o they_o be_v so_o able_a what_o other_o reason_n can_v there_o be_v that_o they_o plead_v no_o

will_v overthrow_v all_o other_o government_n and_o add_v faxit_fw-la deus_fw-la a._n s._n 1._o my_o word_n contain_v no_o pprophecy_n but_o a_o consequence_n 2._o i_o say_v not_o that_o the_o independent_a government_n which_o be_v no_o government_n but_o aequivocè_fw-la as_o canis_fw-la coelestibus_fw-la be_v canis_fw-la but_o that_o the_o toleration_n of_o independent_a government_n will_v overthrow_v all_o government_n 3._o in_o the_o 2._o §_o of_o that_o page_n 110._o he_o acknowledge_v his_o mistake_n because_o of_o my_o follow_a word_n and_o so_o this_o order_n by_o necessary_a consequence_n will_v breed_v all_o sort_n of_o disorder_n to_o this_o m.s._n answer_v 1._o that_o it_o will_v not_o breed_v the_o disorder_n of_o oppress_v conscientious_a man_n for_o conscience_n sake_n a._n s._n 1._o all_o sort_n of_o disorder_n must_v not_o be_v take_v pro_fw-la singulis_fw-la generum_fw-la sed_fw-la pro_fw-la generibus_fw-la singulorum_fw-la 2._o the_o syncategorema_n all_o there_o signify_v only_o a_o great_a number_n of_o disorder_n 3._o no_o more_o do_v the_o presbyterian_a order_n oppress_v conscientious_a man_n or_o do_v any_o thing_n that_o you_o tell_v there_o 4._o howbeit_o it_o breed_v not_o those_o disorder_n which_o you_o mention_v there_o yet_o it_o breed_v sundry_a other_o disorder_n which_o we_o have_v already_o demonstrate_v 5._o it_o oppress_v conscientious_a man_n 1._o in_o hinder_v they_o to_o get_v their_o conscience_n full_o satisfy_v in_o a_o high_a indicatory_a 2._o by_o a_o absolute_a authority_n of_o seven_o or_o eight_o idle_a yea_o peradventure_o debauch_a knave_n who_o howbeit_o their_o opinion_n be_v never_o so_o heretical_a and_o their_o practice_n never_o so_o tyrannical_a will_v not_o submit_v but_o oppress_v man_n better_o than_o themselves_o compel_v they_o to_o be_v go_v from_o their_o congregation_n and_o so_o undo_v they_o 3._o in_o make_v they_o to_o attend_v peradventure_o a_o year_n or_o two_o before_o they_o will_v meet_v with_o other_o church_n to_o have_v their_o unjust_a judgement_n judge_v and_o reverse_v of_o which_o practice_n see_v sundry_a very_o strange_a story_n in_o master_n edward_n book_n who_o know_v they_o intus_fw-la &_o in_fw-la cute_fw-la which_o one_o of_o their_o sect_n write_v in_o their_o favour_n not_o many_o day_n ago_o do_v ingenuous_o confess_v they_o make_v not_o indeed_o man_n to_o walk_v sundry_a mile_n for_o what_o they_o may_v have_v at_o home_n but_o they_o sundry_a time_n oppress_v they_o at_o home_n and_o undo_v they_o for_o what_o they_o may_v have_v get_v within_o a_o few_o mile_n for_o the_o hundred_o part_n of_o the_o loss_n that_o they_o suffer_v at_o home_n whereof_o see_v master_n edward_n his_o antapologia_fw-la 2._o m._n s._n deni_v that_o they_o may_v run_v from_o church_n to_o church_n but_o i_o prove_v it_o for_o if_o other_o church_n be_v independent_a of_o all_o authoritative_a power_n they_o may_v admit_v they_o and_o howbeit_o they_o can_v not_o run_v from_o church_n to_o church_n yet_o can_v they_o set_v up_o a_o church_n themselves_o compound_v of_o seven_o or_o eight_o debauch_a fellow_n like_v unto_o themselves_o as_o they_o do_v here_o in_o london_n m._n s._n scorn_v to_o answer_v the_o rest_n of_o my_o reason_n amount_v to_o the_o number_n of_o seven_o under_o pretext_n that_o i_o say_v that_o i_o omit_v they_o but_o however_o i_o omit_v they_o the_o judicious_a reader_n will_v do_v well_o to_o take_v notice_n of_o they_o m._n s._n in_o all_o this_o chapter_n bring_v but_o one_o only_a text_n of_o scripture_n for_o his_o opinion_n and_o that_o not_o by_o way_n of_o argument_n but_o of_o answer_n to_o one_o of_o my_o argument_n but_o in_o the_o begin_n of_o it_o he_o have_v some_o ten_o frivolous_a argument_n ground_v on_o the_o corrupt_a reason_n of_o his_o own_o brain_n which_o i_o will_v here_o set_v down_o in_o order_n and_o answer_v they_o hope_v through_o god_n mercy_n that_o the_o very_a weakness_n of_o the_o independent_o reason_n howbeit_o we_o bring_v no_o reason_n at_o all_o against_o they_o will_v evident_o show_v how_o sleight_v their_o opinion_n and_o how_o fond_a their_o conceit_n be_v m._n s._n suppose_v the_o opinion_n maintain_v in_o the_o latter_a part_n of_o the_o second_o chapter_n be_v wave_v and_o such_o a_o coercive_a power_n in_o matter_n of_o religion_n as_o a._n s._n contend_v for_o allow_v in_o the_o magistrate_n hand_n yet_o that_o any_o man_n shall_v plead_v for_o the_o draw_v of_o his_o sword_n against_o those_o man_n etc._n etc._n and_o a_o little_a after_o that_o any_o i_o say_v on_o this_o side_n of_o malignancy_n shall_v consult_v the_o sorrow_n trouble_n disgrace_n suppression_n ruin_n of_o man_n so_o holy_a so_o harmless_a of_o such_o eminent_a desert_n in_o the_o cause_n of_o religion_n state_n kingdom_n i_o think_v shall_v exceed_v the_o line_n of_o humanity_n and_o be_v think_v some_o inspiration_n or_o suggestion_n from_o the_o great_a enemy_n of_o mankind_n a._n s._n 1._o this_o discourse_n seem_v to_o imply_v two_o argument_n first_o man_n very_o holy_a very_o harmless_a of_o very_o eminent_a desert_n in_o the_o cause_n of_o religion_n state_n kingdom_n shall_v not_o receive_v sorrow_n trouble_n disgrace_n suppression_n or_o ruin_n but_o we_o the_o independent_o be_v such_o ergo._n m._n s._n his_o second_o argument_n they_o who_o plead_v for_o the_o draw_v of_o the_o sword_n consult_v sorrow_n etc._n etc._n against_o so_o holy_a man_n etc._n etc._n have_v some_o inspiration_n from_o the_o devil_n or_o great_a enemy_n of_o mankind_n but_o a._n s._n plead_v for_o the_o draw_v of_o the_o sword_n etc._n etc._n ergo._n to_o the_o first_o argument_n i_o answer_v 1._o in_o general_n that_o i_o be_o sorry_a that_o this_o m._n s._n will_v hazard_v the_o independent_o honour_v in_o so_o weak_a a_o argument_n for_o if_o i_o deny_v the_o minor_a they_o will_v present_o cry_v out_o that_o i_o offend_v their_o pretend_a power_n of_o piety_n their_o harmlessenesse_n etc._n etc._n and_o therefore_o not_o to_o offend_v they_o i_o will_v not_o say_v that_o they_o be_v not_o such_o only_o i_o say_v that_o whosoever_o plead_v for_o a_o toleration_n of_o all_o damnable_a and_o most_o detestable_a heretic_n such_o as_o deny_v the_o trinity_n the_o incarnation_n of_o the_o son_n of_o god_n his_o mediatorship_n who_o call_v he_o a_o knave_n and_o a_o impostor_n who_o die_v for_o we_o all_o as_o this_o m._n s._n do_v here_o in_o his_o book_n can_v neither_o be_v holy_a nor_o harmless_a 2._o i_o deny_v the_o major_n if_o it_o be_v take_v absolute_o without_o any_o distinction_n for_o if_o the_o righteous_a turn_n from_o his_o righteousness_n and_o do_v the_o thing_n that_o be_v wicked_a he_o shall_v die_v therein_o ezek._n 33.28_o so_o they_o be_v not_o to_o suffer_v for_o their_o harmlessenesse_n and_o eminent_a gift_n but_o for_o something_o worse_o 3._o i_o must_v say_v that_o the_o minor_a smell_v somewhat_o the_o pharisee_fw-mi who_o seem_v just_a in_o his_o own_o eye_n and_o to_o say_v nothing_o else_o we_o can_v produce_v you_o a_o great_a number_n of_o independent_o and_o independent_a minister_n no_o better_o than_o other_o mortal_a man_n to_o the_o second_o argument_n i_o answer_v to_o the_o major_a 1._o they_o have_v some_o inspiration_n etc._n etc._n if_o they_o consult_v sorrow_n against_o they_o for_o their_o holiness_n it_o be_v true_a but_o the_o minor_n be_v false_a for_o i_o never_o plead_v any_o sorrow_n against_o they_o for_o their_o holiness_n neither_o be_o i_o mind_v to_o plead_v any_o sorrow_n or_o the_o draw_n of_o the_o sword_n against_o they_o but_o only_o against_o such_o who_o be_v turbulent_a and_o trouble_v the_o church_n and_o state_n who_o erect_v church_n in_o despite_n of_o the_o parliament_n or_o overthrow_v the_o king_n the_o parliament_n and_o all_o civil_a magistrate_n authority_n about_o the_o church_n and_o religion_n i_o will_v not_o answer_v unto_o this_o independent_o injury_n when_o he_o call_v all_o those_o malignant_n who_o plead_v for_o the_o civil_a magistrate_n power_n as_o i_o do_v and_o man_n inspire_v by_o the_o devil_n only_o this_o i_o say_v that_o if_o such_o man_n who_o curb_v so_o the_o king_n the_o parliament_n and_o all_o civil_a magistrate_n authority_n in_o such_o a_o manner_n shall_v be_v protect_v and_o maintain_v by_o they_o as_o they_o pretend_v they_o shall_v be_v and_o vaunt_v they_o will_v be_v which_o yet_o i_o hope_v shall_v never_o be_v that_o turdus_fw-la sibi_fw-la malum_fw-la cacat_fw-la and_o that_o they_o be_v worthy_a to_o drink_v such_o as_o they_o brew_v m._n s._n the_o independent_o have_v such_o a_o considerable_a strength_n if_o not_o of_o evidence_n yet_o of_o reason_n for_o what_o they_o practise_v and_o profess_v a._n s._n ergo_fw-la i_o know_v not_o what_o i_o think_v he_o will_v infer_v they_o shall_v not_o suffer_v sorrow_n but_o be_v tolerate_v a._n s._n 1._o

be_v take_v for_o a_o political_a power_n that_o be_v extrinsecall_v to_o the_o church_n whereby_o he_o punish_v heretic_n and_o schismatic_n by_o civil_a punishment_n the_o minor_a be_v false_a as_o i_o have_v already_o show_v by_o my_o argument_n and_o what_o he_o say_v of_o my_o tenderness_n etc._n etc._n it_o be_v but_o language_n instead_o of_o reason_n 2._o if_o the_o extrinsecall_a power_n be_v take_v for_o a_o remote_a power_n or_o in_o actu_fw-la signato_fw-la the_o minor_a be_v false_a neither_o prove_v he_o it_o but_o we_o have_v prove_v the_o contrary_a for_o both_o pagan_n and_o christian_n have_v it_o if_o it_o be_v take_v for_o a_o near_a immediate_a power_n or_o in_o actu_fw-la exercito_fw-la the_o minor_a be_v true_a of_o the_o unchristian_a but_o false_a of_o the_o christian_a magistrate_n as_o i_o have_v tell_v you_o again_o and_o again_o and_o prove_v it_o 3._o but_o be_v not_o this_o power_n grant_v to_o the_o civil_a magistrate_n by_o the_o christian_n of_o new_a england_n 4._o and_o be_v it_o not_o grant_v he_o in_o the_o old_a testament_n m._n s._n 8._o argument_n the_o exercise_n of_o a_o coactive_a power_n of_o the_o civil_a magistrate_n against_o heretic_n schismatic_n etc._n etc._n in_o matter_n of_o religion_n tend_v direct_o to_o prevent_v hinder_v or_o suppress_v the_o growth_n of_o the_o knowledge_n of_o god_n and_o jesus_n christ_n in_o the_o church_n and_o state_n and_o the_o reformation_n of_o doctrine_n and_o discipline_n ergo_fw-la it_o be_v not_o of_o divine_a institution_n a._n s._n i_o answer_v 1._o i_o deny_v the_o antecedent_n or_o i_o distinguish_v it_o if_o it_o do_v all_o that_o per_fw-la accidens_fw-la i_o deny_v the_o consequence_n if_o per_fw-la se_fw-la the_o antecedent_n be_v false_a but_o m._n s._n prove_v his_o assumption_n in_o substance_n thus_o when_o the_o civil_a magistrate_n hold_v any_o thing_n in_o religion_n it_o be_v a_o great_a temptation_n and_o discouragement_n upon_o the_o subject_a to_o search_v out_o the_o truth_n in_o scripture_n for_o if_o he_o find_v it_o against_o the_o tenet_n of_o the_o civil_a magistrate_n one_o of_o two_o thing_n must_v follow_v either_o out_o of_o fear_n of_o punishment_n he_o withhold_v the_o truth_n in_o unrighteousness_n and_o so_o have_v god_n and_o his_o own_o conscience_n for_o his_o enemy_n or_o else_o he_o profess_v it_o and_o so_o have_v his_o bone_n break_v for_o it_o so_o these_o two_o danger_n may_v tempt_v he_o not_o to_o read_v the_o scripture_n a._n s._n 1._o this_o prove_v not_o that_o thing_n which_o be_v deny_v 2._o i_o deny_v that_o the_o power_n of_o the_o civil_a magistrate_n since_o it_o be_v only_o to_o good_a rom._n 13._o can_n per_fw-la se_fw-la cause_n any_o such_o temptation_n 3._o howbeit_o a_o man_n discover_v any_o truth_n in_o scripture_n against_o the_o tenet_n of_o the_o christian_a magistrate_n that_o he_o need_v to_o fear_v any_o such_o thing_n for_o the_o true_a christian_a magistrate_n will_v not_o be_v so_o barbarous_a against_o the_o truth_n howbeit_o he_o think_v it_o to_o be_v a_o error_n for_o he_o may_v be_v curious_a to_o learn_v it_o and_o if_o he_o that_o have_v find_v it_o be_v prudent_a and_o not_o turbulent_a he_o need_v not_o to_o suffer_v for_o it_o m._n s._n 9_o argument_n the_o exercise_n of_o a_o coactive_a power_n in_o matter_n of_o religion_n which_o a._n s._n and_o many_o other_o pin_n upon_o the_o civil_a magistrate_n tend_v to_o the_o gratification_n of_o satan_n and_o of_o carnal_a and_o profane_a man_n ergo_fw-la it_o be_v not_o of_o god_n a._n s._n i_o deny_v the_o antecedent_n for_o than_o it_o shall_v be_v a_o gratification_n of_o satan_n to_o punish_v heretic_n and_o schismatic_n and_o so_o to_o destroy_v his_o kingdom_n which_o be_v main_o up_o hold_v by_o they_o but_o m._n s._n prove_v it_o 1._o for_o many_o of_o those_o that_o be_v like_a to_o suffer_v by_o it_o be_v man_n of_o good_a conscience_n and_o true_o fear_v god_n as_o the_o apologist_n and_o man_n of_o their_o judgement_n a._n s._n 1._o we_o see_v no_o appearance_n that_o those_o your_o man_n of_o good_a conscience_n be_v like_a to_o suffer_v howsoever_o they_o have_v very_o high_o offend_v against_o the_o civil_a magistrate_n authority_n and_o some_o of_o you_o as_o one_o m._n s._n in_o the_o first_o edition_n of_o his_o book_n write_v that_o the_o name_n of_o stevart_n have_v be_v fune_a to_o england_n in_o king_n james_n and_o king_n charles_n 2._o if_o they_o suffer_v i_o will_v warrant_v you_o it_o will_v never_o be_v for_o their_o good_a conscience_n but_o for_o some_o worse_a thing_n again_o m._n s._n for_o fear_n that_o we_o shall_v deny_v they_o to_o be_v man_n of_o good_a conscience_n prove_v it_o by_o two_o reason_n 1._o because_o a._n s._n confess_v it_o but_o this_o have_v be_v sundry_a time_n answer_v 2._o because_o it_o be_v not_o ordinary_a that_o man_n of_o loose_a or_o no_o conscience_n shall_v delight_v to_o swim_v against_o the_o stream_n of_o greatness_n or_o plurality_n in_o matter_n of_o religion_n a._n s._n but_o the_o devil_n have_v his_o own_o martyr_n as_o god_n have_v he_o and_o one_o vaninus_n a_o atheist_n in_o france_n choose_v rather_o to_o die_v then_o to_o renounce_v his_o atheism_n and_o so_o be_v drown_v for_o his_o thus_o swim_v against_o the_o stream_n of_o greatness_n and_o plurality_n m._n s._n prove_v the_o second_o part_n of_o the_o assumption_n viz._n that_o such_o a_o civil_a power_n in_o the_o civil_a magistrate_n about_o matter_n of_o religion_n be_v a_o gratification_n of_o ignorant_a and_o carnal_a man_n because_o they_o desire_v always_o sect_n and_o opinion_n in_o religion_n to_o be_v suppress_v save_v only_o that_o which_o shall_v be_v authorize_v and_o practise_v in_o the_o state_n for_o so_o they_o shall_v not_o be_v much_o trouble_v to_o seek_v it_o they_o know_v not_o where_o or_o among_o who_o a._n s._n 1._o and_o if_o the_o true_a religion_n be_v to_o be_v establish_v in_o the_o state_n wherefore_o be_v they_o not_o to_o be_v gratify_v therein_o what_o great_a crime_n be_v it_o in_o they_o then_o in_o good_a man_n to_o desire_v the_o true_a religion_n to_o be_v establish_v in_o the_o state_n and_o all_o sect_n and_o heresy_n to_o be_v suppress_v 2._o be_v they_o ignorant_a and_o carnal_a who_o desire_v one_o only_o and_o that_o the_o true_a religion_n to_o be_v establish_v and_o they_o only_o learn_v and_o spiritual_a that_o desire_v many_o sect_n and_o heresy_n whereby_o the_o good_a name_n of_o god_n be_v blaspheme_v to_o subsist_v 3._o if_o that_o be_v ill_a i_o be_o afraid_a the_o next_o word_n will_v be_v that_o you_o will_v say_v god_n do_v not_o well_o in_o establish_v the_o true_a religion_n among_o his_o people_n and_o in_o suppress_v of_o sect_n 4._o and_o no_o better_o do_v your_o independent_o in_o new_a england_n in_o suppress_v of_o all_o sect_n save_v their_o own_o if_o this_o be_v a_o crime_n i_o pray_v god_n we_o be_v all_o criminal_a and_o that_o god_n have_v no_o great_a crime_n to_o charge_v we_o with_o 5._o but_o desire_v you_o m._n s._n to_o have_v many_o sect_n and_o heresy_n in_o the_o kingdom_n to_o show_v your_o great_a learning_n in_o refute_v of_o they_o as_o the_o soldier_n will_v have_v the_o war_n to_o continue_v to_o show_v their_o valour_n and_o therein_o to_o find_v their_o preferment_n i_o pray_v you_o not_o to_o be_v offend_v with_o we_o if_o we_o desire_v to_o be_v gratify_v with_o the_o most_o ignorant_a in_o suppress_v they_o and_o in_o establish_v the_o true_a religion_n so_o the_o parliament_n and_o synod_n be_v ignorant_a for_o this_o be_v their_o desire_n m._n s._n 10._o argument_n that_o power_n which_o in_o the_o use_n of_o it_o direct_o tend_v to_o defile_v the_o conscience_n of_o man_n be_v a_o power_n from_o beneath_o and_o not_o from_o above_o but_o such_o be_v the_o coercive_a power_n in_o matter_n of_o religion_n wherewith_o a._n s._n will_v fain_o befriend_v himself_o with_o the_o civil_a magistrate_n ergo._n the_o major_n i_o grant_v it_o the_o assumption_n if_o it_o have_v any_o sense_n be_v this_o in_o substance_n when_o a_o man_n be_v deep_o threaten_v in_o case_n he_o shall_v not_o comply_v with_o the_o state_n in_o their_o religion_n against_o his_o conscience_n 1._o either_o god_n leave_v such_o a_o man_n conscience_n to_o itself_o and_o it_o be_v harden_v 2._o or_o by_o reflect_v upon_o what_o it_o have_v do_v it_o bring_v itself_o into_o grievous_a agony_n of_o which_o it_o never_o recover_v afterward_o a._n s._n this_o be_v a_o very_a strange_a case_n of_o conscience_n viz._n that_o m._n s._n his_o and_o such_o like_a independent_a conscience_n be_v so_o tender_a and_o delicate_a that_o they_o be_v sore_o wound_v if_o they_o may_v not_o have_v a_o liberty_n to_o become_v