Selected quad for the lemma: cause_n

Word A	Word B	Word C	Word D	Occurrence	Frequency Band	MI	MI Band	Prominent
cause_n	ability_n	able_a	day_n	16	3	3.4342	3	false

Text snippets containing the quad

ID	Title	Author	Corrected Date of Publication (TCP Date of Publication)	STC	Words	Pages
A93884	The second part of the duply to M.S. alias Two brethren. Wherein are maintained the Kings, Parliaments, and all civil magistrates authority about the Church. Subordination of ecclesiasticall judicatories. Refuted the independency of particular congregations. Licentiousnesse of wicked conscience, and toleration of all sorts of most detestable schismes, heresies and religions; as, idolatry, paganisme, turcisme, Judaisme, Arrianisme, Brownisme, anabaptisme, &c. which M.S. maintain in their book. With a brief epitome and refutation of all the whole independent-government. Most humbly submitted to the Kings most excellent Majestie. To the most Honorable Houses of Parliament. The most Reverend and learned Divines of the Assembly. And all the Protestant churches in this island and abroad. By Adam Steuart. Octob. 3. 1644. Imprimatur Ja: Cranford.; Duply to M.S. alias Two brethren. Part 2.	Steuart, Adam.	1644 (1644)	Wing S5491; Thomason E20_7; ESTC R2880	197,557	205

be_v discuss_v in_o those_o judicatories_n 3._o they_o have_v more_o in_o our_o way_n for_o they_o have_v our_o confession_n of_o faith_n and_o our_o discipline_n write_v or_o in_o print_n and_o may_v study_v it_o every_o day_n at_o home_n which_o be_v not_o usual_a among_o the_o independent_o who_o be_v never_o resolve_v neither_o in_o their_o confession_n of_o faith_n nor_o in_o their_o government_n neither_o will_v they_o have_v any_o one_o common_a to_o all_o their_o church_n if_o private_a christian_n desire_v more_o than_o this_o they_o may_v go_v to_o the_o university_n 4._o this_o argument_n strike_v at_o the_o government_n of_o the_o state_n that_o of_o the_o old_a testament_n and_o at_o the_o proceed_n of_o the_o apostle_n act._n 15._o and_o 16._o m._n s._n his_o 6._o arg._n in_o substance_n be_v that_o the_o premise_n whereupon_o conclusion_n be_v ground_v can_v be_v so_o well_o know_v and_o examine_v in_o class_n and_o synod_n as_o in_o a_o independent_a congregation_n wherein_o the_o matter_n be_v pass_v ergo_fw-la it_o shall_v be_v judge_v there_o and_o not_o in_o class_n synod_n etc._n etc._n a._n s._n 1._o this_o argument_n as_o the_o rest_n conclude_v as_o well_o against_o the_o proceed_n in_o civil_a judicatories_n that_o of_o the_o church_n of_o the_o old_a testament_n that_o at_o antiochia_n and_o at_o hierusalens_n as_o against_o the_o presbyterian_a way_n 2._o among_o we_o the_o business_n be_v first_o examine_v before_o the_o parochial_a presbytery_n or_o session_n where_o all_o the_o premise_n may_v be_v as_o well_o try_v as_o in_o the_o independent_a congregation_n and_o in_o case_n of_o appeal_v they_o may_v be_v carry_v to_o the_o class_n or_o synod_n 3._o what_o if_o the_o difference_n be_v betwixt_o two_o divers_a church_n or_o two_o person_n of_o divers_a church_n and_o the_o premise_n be_v action_n or_o offence_n commit_v out_o of_o both_o the_o church_n then_o in_o such_o a_o case_n the_o business_n can_v be_v prove_v in_o any_o of_o the_o church_n what_o if_o the_o business_n need_v no_o proof_n but_o be_v some_o scandalous_a doctrinc_n m._n s._n add_v that_o for_o brevity_n sake_n he_o will_v not_o strengthen_v his_o argument_n as_o he_o may_v a._n s._n and_o in_o this_o we_o praise_v his_o prudence_n in_o publish_v unto_o the_o world_n such_o frivolous_a argument_n yea_o that_o have_v not_o so_o much_o as_o any_o apparent_a probability_n in_o they_o whether_o a_o independent_a government_n ought_v to_o be_v tolerate_v in_o this_o kingdom_n to_o the_o end_n we_o may_v proceed_v clear_o in_o this_o question_n it_o be_v to_o be_v note_v that_o by_o this_o kingdom_n i_o mean_v the_o kingdom_n of_o england_n wherein_o this_o government_n have_v never_o yet_o be_v receive_v 2._o it_o be_v to_o be_v note_v that_o a_o toleration_n be_v either_o positiuè_n whereby_o positive_o by_o law_n actual_a consent_n approbation_n or_o otherways_o we_o receive_v or_o give_v way_n to_o any_o thing_n or_o negatiuè_fw-la when_o neither_o by_o any_o posicive_a act_n law_n actual_a consent_n or_o approbation_n we_o give_v way_n to_o any_o thing_n but_o only_o actual_o we_o oppose_v it_o not_o make_v no_o law_n against_o it_o dissent_v not_o reprove_v it_o not_o etc._n etc._n again_o both_o the_o one_o and_o the_o other_o be_v either_o of_o particular_a man_n or_o of_o church_n and_o again_o that_o of_o particular_a man_n either_o simple_o to_o enjoy_v their_o conscience_n in_o not_o oblige_v they_o to_o be_v actor_n in_o any_o thing_n against_o the_o light_n thereof_o or_o to_o give_v they_o leave_v free_o to_o discourse_v upon_o all_o occasion_n with_o other_o concern_v their_o tenet_n yea_o though_o it_o be_v to_o seduce_v they_o 3._o it_o it_o be_v again_o to_o be_v note_v that_o by_o independent_a government_n i_o mean_v that_o whereby_o every_o particular_a congregation_n be_v so_o govern_v that_o every_o member_n thereof_o have_v a_o hand_n in_o it_o and_o all_o the_o part_n of_o it_o and_o so_o as_o not_o to_o acknowledge_v any_o ecclesiastical_a power_n in_o this_o world_n above_o it_o the_o state_n of_o the_o question_n than_o be_v whether_o such_o independent_o shall_v have_v any_o positive_a or_o negative_a but_o principal_o a_o positive_a toleration_n not_o only_o for_o their_o person_n but_o also_o for_o their_o church_n in_o this_o kingdon_n wherein_o they_o be_v not_o yet_o admit_v m._n s._n with_o the_o rest_n of_o his_o sect_n the_o brownist_n anabaptist_n antinomian_o familist_n arminian_o servetist_n socinian_o and_o other_o sect_n in_o this_o kingdom_n maintain_v the_o affirmative_a but_o the_o orthodox_n stand_v for_o the_o negative_a the_o reason_n for_o the_o orthodox_n part_n may_v be_v these_o that_o follow_v 1._o such_o a_o toleration_n can_v but_o open_v a_o door_n to_o all_o sort_n of_o erroneous_a opinion_n m._n s._n deni_v this_o assumption_n for_o say_v he_o by_o the_o same_o reason_n he_o that_o receive_v one_o discreet_a servant_n into_o his_o house_n must_v receive_v all_o prince_n rupert_n troop_n to_o rack_v and_o manger_n with_o he_o a._n s._n but_o m._n s._n understand_v not_o or_o take_v upon_o he_o that_o he_o understand_v not_o my_o argument_n for_o my_o meaning_n be_v not_o as_o he_o misconstrueth_n it_o that_o by_o the_o same_o reason_n all_o other_o sect_n must_v be_v admit_v which_o be_v my_o four_o reason●●_n a_o pari_fw-la but_o that_o independency_n be_v once_o receive_v into_o the_o state_n it_o will_v per_fw-la se_fw-la and_o naturâ_fw-la suâ_fw-la of_o itself_o open_v a_o door_n to_o all_o sort_n of_o erroneous_a opinion_n which_o be_v a_o argument_n not_o a_o pari_fw-la as_o the_o other_o but_o a_o causâ_fw-la ad_fw-la effectum_fw-la for_o if_o the_o independent_a church_n acknowledge_v no_o superior_a ecclesiastical_a power_n and_o that_o the_o civil_a magistrate_n in_o good_a conscience_n can_v punish_v they_o then_o in_o case_n any_o or_o many_o of_o they_o fall_v into_o heresy_n it_o will_v open_v a_o door_n to_o heresy_n 2._o m._n s._n answer_v that_o a_o toleration_n of_o independency_n will_v be_v a_o effectual_a mean_n of_o chase_v away_o of_o erroneous_a opinion_n a._n s._n this_o be_v but_o a_o strong_a imagination_n of_o m._n s._n which_o may_v as_o easy_o be_v deny_v by_o we_o upon_o our_o reason_n here_o above_o allege_v as_o it_o be_v bold_o assert_v by_o he_o without_o any_o reason_n at_o all_o as_o for_o that_o which_o he_o cit_v out_o of_o my_o book_n that_o i_o acknowledge_v they_o for_o man_n of_o ability_n sufficient_a enough_o to_o dispute_v their_o opinion_n a._n s._n i_o have_v answer_v this_o sundry_a time_n 1._o it_o be_v but_o a_o judgement_n of_o one_o man_n 2._o but_o a_o judgement_n of_o charity_n which_o howbeit_o it_o be_v practical_o true_a yet_o oftentimes_o it_o prove_v speculative_o false_a 3._o it_o be_v not_o a_o certain_a but_o a_o probable_a judgement_n whereof_o he_o do_v not_o well_o to_o brag_v so_o much_o 4._o howbeit_o they_o may_v not_o want_v ability_n to_o dispute_v probable_o yet_o may_v they_o want_v ability_n to_o demonstrate_v their_o opinion_n theological_o yea_o neither_o all_o they_o nor_o ten_o thousand_o such_o as_o m.s._n with_o they_o shall_v ever_o be_v able_a to_o bring_v any_o strong_a argument_n for_o any_o one_o of_o their_o tenet_n that_o they_o hold_v against_o we_o 5._o if_o they_o have_v so_o great_a ability_n to_o dispute_v their_o opinion_n the_o devil_n have_v yet_o great_a can_v able_a lawyer_n dispute_v very_o well_o a_o very_a ill_a cause_n know_v you_o not_o what_o be_v say_v of_o a_o very_a able_a man_n vbi_fw-la benè_fw-la nemo_fw-la meliùs_fw-la ubi_fw-la malè_fw-la nemo_fw-la pejùs_fw-la true_o you_o dispute_v with_o such_o heat_n and_o ardency_n for_o the_o independent_a learning_n and_o godliness_n that_o it_o seem_v almost_o the_o only_a quarrel_n you_o have_v against_o we_o whether_o you_o be_v the_o learn_a and_o godly_a man_n in_o this_o kingdom_n or_o not_o you_o and_o they_o seem_v to_o maintain_v the_o affirmative_a at_o least_o concern_v the_o last_o part_n of_o this_o thesis_n if_o not_o both_o and_o scarce_o see_v we_o any_o book_n of_o independency_n set_v forth_o wherein_o we_o see_v not_o great_a complaìnt_n that_o their_o ability_n be_v not_o high_a enough_o prize_v and_o what_o they_o say_v of_o their_o pretend_a piety_n all_o the_o world_n know_v whereas_o your_o pretend_a adversary_n speak_v never_o a_o word_n but_o of_o the_o cause_n unless_o they_o be_v provoke_v by_o the_o vain_a and_o exorbitant_a praise_n that_o you_o ever_o and_o anon_o undeserved_o bestow_v upon_o yourselves_o 6._o but_o how_o able_a soever_o you_o or_o they_o be_v yet_o for_o they_o it_o be_v clear_a the_o assembly_n have_v divers_a time_n put_v they_o to_o a_o nonplus_n 7._o and_o if_o they_o be_v so_o able_a what_o other_o reason_n can_v there_o be_v that_o they_o plead_v no_o

better_o their_o cause_n fave_v only_o that_o it_o be_v naught_o it_o be_v true_o a_o strange_a thing_n that_o man_n of_o so_o great_a ability_n shall_v be_v able_a to_o say_v no_o more_o for_o themselves_o 8._o and_o since_o you_o m.s._n and_o they_o be_v so_o able_a will_v you_o or_o they_o i_o pray_v condescend_v to_o some_o private_a meeting_n with_o some_o of_o the_o presbyterian_o that_o it_o may_v be_v see_v who_o have_v the_o best_a cause_n and_o whether_o or_o no_o all_o your_o deep_a learning_n and_o great_a skill_n in_o sophistication_n wherein_o you_o so_o excel_v can_v set_v any_o probable_a show_n or_o face_n of_o reason_n upon_o your_o opinion_n which_o you_o hold_v to_o be_v no_o less_o than_o god_n reveal_v word_n m._n s._n answer_v 3._o better_o a_o door_n open_v to_o all_o sort_n of_o erroneous_a opinion_n yea_o and_o to_o many_o other_o inconvenience_n great_a than_o this_o then_o that_o the_o guilt_n of_o any_o persecution_n or_o of_o any_o evil_a entreat_n of_o the_o saint_n and_o people_n of_o god_n shall_v cleave_v unto_o the_o people_n or_o state_n a._n s._n this_o m._n s._n suppose_v 1._o that_o the_o independent_o be_v the_o saint_n 2._o and_o that_o in_o case_n they_o be_v not_o tolerate_v in_o establish_v public_o their_o church_n government_n and_o other_o tenet_n in_o despite_n of_o church_n and_o parliament_n both_o in_o the_o church_n and_o state_n that_o it_o be_v no_o less_o than_o the_o guilt_n of_o persecution_n against_o the_o saint_n draw_v upon_o the_o state_n 3._o that_o it_o be_v better_a that_o all_o the_o heresy_n of_o the_o world_n and_o worse_o shall_v creep_v into_o the_o church_n then_o that_o they_o shall_v not_o be_v tolerate_v but_o chastise_v in_o case_n they_o trouble_v the_o peace_n of_o either_o church_n or_o state_n i_o answer_v that_o all_o that_o m._n s._n here_o say_v be_v damnable_a untruth_n and_o that_o it_o be_v better_a that_o all_o the_o independent_o of_o this_o world_n be_v in_o america_n and_o that_o ten_o thousand_o time_n worse_o shall_v befall_v they_o then_o that_o the_o good_a name_n of_o god_n shall_v be_v dishonour_v by_o filthy_a heresy_n and_o if_o the_o independent_o have_v any_o fear_n of_o god_n before_o their_o eye_n and_o love_v not_o themselves_o better_a a_o great_a deal_n then_o god_n glory_n they_o will_v rather_o desire_v with_o moses_n to_o be_v scrape_v out_o of_o the_o book_n of_o life_n or_o with_o paul_n to_o be_v separate_v from_o christ_n then_o that_o christ_n church_n shall_v so_o suffer_v or_o god_n bless_a name_n be_v so_o dishonour_v a._n s._n 2._o reason_n it_o be_v dangerous_a for_o the_o state_n it_o may_v breed_v faction_n and_o division_n betwixt_o all_o person_n of_o whatsoever_o relation_n betwixt_o the_o magistrate_n and_o the_o subject_a the_o husband_n and_o the_o wife_n the_o father_n and_o the_o son_n brethren_n and_o sister_n the_o master_n and_o the_o servant_n when_o the_o one_o be_v of_o one_o religion_n or_o ecclesiastical_a government_n and_o the_o other_o of_o another_o as_o you_o yea_o to_o your_o no_o very_a great_a advantage_n have_v experiment_a it_o several_a time_n the_o son_n may_v refuse_v to_o receive_v any_o communion_n with_o the_o father_n and_o the_o brother_n with_o the_o brother_n to_o the_o utter_a dissolution_n of_o all_o natural_a civil_a and_o domestical_a bond_n of_o society_n and_o the_o reason_n of_o this_o may_v be_v because_o the_o one_o may_v excommunicate_v the_o other_o as_o daily_a experience_n testify_v m._n s._n the_o shadow_n of_o the_o mountain_n seem_v man_n unto_o you_o judg._n 9.36_o a._n s._n so_o say_v zebul_n the_o servant_n of_o abimelech_n the_o son_n of_o the_o concubine_n who_o by_o a_o conspiracy_n with_o the_o schichemite_n be_v make_v king_n and_o afterward_o murder_v his_o brethren_n and_o yet_o they_o be_v man_n viz._n wicked_a abimelech_n with_o his_o army_n and_o no_o shadow_n of_o mountain_n m._n s._n will_v have_v we_o live_v in_o security_n and_o will_v rather_o tolerate_v socinianism_n arminianism_n yea_o judaism_n and_o mahumetanism_n then_o that_o his_o own_o sect_n shall_v not_o be_v tolerate_v of_o so_o large_a a_o conscience_n be_v he_o a.s._n it_o may_v breed_v faction_n etc._n etc._n m.s._n but_o a._n s._n his_o may_n may_v possible_o not_o come_v in_o a_o age_n no_o nor_o in_o many_o generation_n and_o will_v he_o have_v so_o many_o thousand_o of_o the_o dear_a people_n of_o god_n as_o do_v apologise_v to_o eat_v their_o bread_n in_o darkness_n and_o he_o say_v heretofore_o that_o may_v come_v but_o once_o a_o year_n a.s._n it_o be_v subtle_o argue_v m.s._n of_o you_o with_o your_o may_n but_o it_o be_v too_o much_o that_o such_o a_o may_v come_v once_o a_o year_n or_o once_o in_o a_o age_n and_o better_a be_v it_o ten_o thousand_o of_o you_o shall_v perish_v than_o god_n be_v so_o offend_v for_o it_o be_v a_o maxim_n in_o divinity_n quodvis_fw-la malum_fw-la paenae_fw-la etiam_fw-la maximum_fw-la eligendum_fw-la potius_fw-la quàm_fw-la minimum_fw-la malum_fw-la culpae_fw-la nam_fw-la quaevis_fw-la culpa_fw-la pejor_fw-la quavis_fw-la poenâ_fw-la 2._o but_o i_o pray_v you_o learn_v of_o i_o that_o as_o impossibile_fw-it morale_fw-mi in_o moral_a matter_n such_o as_o this_o whereof_o we_o dispute_v be_v not_o that_o which_o never_o but_o which_o rare_o or_o hardly_o fall_v out_o so_o be_v possibile_fw-la morale_fw-la idem_fw-la quod_fw-la facilè_fw-la which_o easy_o and_o oftentimes_o fall_v out_o and_o not_o that_o fall_v out_o but_o once_o in_o a_o age_n and_o that_o it_o fall_v out_o so_o very_o oft_o we_o may_v prove_v it_o by_o the_o division_n in_o france_n the_o netherlands_o germany_n poland_n transilvania_n etc._n etc._n what_o i_o pray_v transport_v the_o crown_n of_o swede_n from_o the_o nephew_n to_o the_o uncle_n what_o move_v a_o king_n of_o spain_n to_o consent_v to_o his_o own_o son_n death_n what_o be_v the_o cause_n of_o so_o great_a a_o war_n betwixt_o the_o turk_n and_o the_o persian_a and_o final_o what_o be_v the_o cause_n of_o this_o our_o present_a war_n but_o the_o favour_v of_o popery_n the_o negotiation_n with_o rome_n our_o agent_n there_o father_n con_n and_o the_o pope_n nuncio_n here_o 2._o you_o be_v not_o so_o many_o thousand_o as_o you_o brag_v of_o save_v in_o london_n and_o a_o few_o mile_n about_o it_o your_o sect_n i_o think_v may_v easy_o be_v count_v by_o hundred_o and_o as_o for_o the_o remote_a part_n of_o the_o kingdom_n they_o be_v unknown_a creature_n to_o they_o 3._o if_o they_o be_v so_o dear_a to_o god_n they_o can_v never_o qua_fw-la tale_n suffer_v for_o so_o wicked_a a_o cause_n as_o for_o all_o licentiousness_n in_o religion_n 4._o they_o need_v not_o to_o suffer_v if_o they_o will_v not_o be_v turbulent_a but_o quiet_a and_o submit_v unto_o the_o law_n of_o the_o kingdom_n and_o such_o a_o ecclesiastical_a government_n as_o in_o god_n mercy_n shall_v be_v establish_v in_o the_o church_n what_o a_o sauciness_n be_v this_o that_o they_o will_v be_v content_a with_o nothing_o unless_o in_o despite_n of_o church_n and_o state_n they_o may_v do_v what_o they_o will_v 5._o as_o for_o his_o rhetorication_n in_o tell_v i_o that_o i_o be_o breed_v of_o rock_n and_o suck_v the_o milk_n of_o tiger_n all_o that_o shall_v not_o hinder_v i_o to_o maintain_v that_o the_o independent_o must_v be_v subject_a to_o order_n and_o authority_n both_o civil_a and_o ecclesiastical_a as_o other_o man_n be_v or_o else_o suffer_v for_o their_o turbulent_a humour_n m._n s._n i_o will_v know_v of_o he_o whether_o he_o deem_v himself_o to_o be_v of_o another_o religion_n than_o the_o apologist_n if_o so_o candorem_fw-la tuum_fw-la a.s._n in_o that_o malignant_a expression_n etc._n etc._n a.s._n as_o for_o my_o religion_n you_o may_v know_v it_o m.s._n it_o be_v that_o which_o be_v declare_v in_o the_o confession_n of_o the_o church_n of_o scotland_n england_n the_o netherlands_o france_n etc._n etc._n but_o as_o for_o you_o sed_fw-la vos_fw-la qui_fw-la tandem_fw-la quibus_fw-la aut_fw-la venistis_fw-la ab_fw-la eris_fw-la quouè_fw-la tenetis_fw-la iter_fw-la that_o i_o know_v not_o and_o consequent_o whether_o i_o be_v of_o your_o religion_n or_o not_o you_o will_v have_v no_o confession_n of_o faith_n or_o discipline_n but_o what_o you_o may_v change_v fidem_fw-la diariam_fw-la aut_fw-la ad_fw-la summum_fw-la menstruam_fw-la such_o as_o you_o may_v change_v with_o every_o moon_n but_o to_o come_v more_o near_o to_o the_o point_n i_o pray_v you_o set_v forth_o a_o confession_n of_o faith_n in_o the_o name_n of_o all_o the_o independent_a church_n and_o subscribe_v all_o of_o you_o that_o you_o will_v stand_v to_o it_o and_o then_o i_o will_v answer_v your_o question_n if_o you_o will_v not_o here_o i_o will_v give_v you_o the_o best_a satisfaction_n i_o can_v and_o it_o be_v this_o viz._n

of_o the_o presbyterian_a remedy_n against_o such_o mischief_n or_o of_o the_o mischief_n itself_o for_o we_o must_v never_o in_o any_o case_n accept_v of_o malum_fw-la culpae_fw-la such_o as_o be_v the_o acceptation_n of_o apostasy_n or_o heresy_n in_o a_o whole_a church_n 4._o neither_o be_v there_o any_o nor_o have_v you_o yet_o show_v any_o inconveniency_n in_o the_o presbyterial_a way_n but_o we_o have_v show_v many_o as_o real_a in_o the_o independent_a way_n as_o those_o be_v imaginary_a that_o you_o attribute_v to_o the_o presbyterian_a way_n 5._o all_o the_o inconveniency_n that_o this_o man_n pretend_v to_o be_v in_o the_o presbyterian_a way_n be_v dependency_n of_o particular_a congregation_n upon_o superior_a assembly_n viz._n class_n synod_n etc._n etc._n or_o subordination_n among_o ecclesiastical_a judicatories_n for_o this_o sect_n must_v be_v altogether_o independent_a and_o every_o one_o in_o their_o church_n supreme_a ecclesiastical_a judge_n and_o their_o church_n supreme_a ecclesiastical_a judicatories_n be_v they_o never_o so_o heretical_a or_o profane_a but_o this_o inconveniency_n may_v be_v press_v home_o again_o 1._o for_o there_o be_v subordination_n among_o their_o particular_a congregation_n and_o their_o synod_n only_o they_o hate_v the_o authority_n of_o synod_n 2._o there_o be_v a_o subordination_n of_o authority_n in_o the_o old_a testament_n 3._o so_o be_v there_o in_o civil_a government_n and_o whatsoever_o inconveniency_n they_o press_v against_o we_o it_o will_v hold_v in_o all_o the_o rest_n as_o we_o shall_v see_v hereafter_o god_n will_v 4._o if_o such_o a_o dependency_n or_o subordination_n be_v any_o inconveniency_n than_o god_n be_v the_o cause_n of_o it_o as_o we_o have_v heretofore_o full_o demonstrate_v it_o m._n s._n delinquency_n of_o whole_a church_n be_v not_o a_o every_o day_n case_n no_o more_o in_o the_o way_n of_o congregationall_a then_o of_o presbyterial_a government_n a._n s._n 1._o it_o may_v be_v as_o ordinary_a a_o case_n in_o the_o church_n as_o that_o of_o inferior_a judicatories_n in_o the_o state_n 2._o and_o it_o fall_v out_o among_o the_o arminian_o and_o we_o 3._o so_o do_v it_o among_o your_o church_n in_o holland_n 4._o so_o do_v it_o betwixt_o you_o and_o we_o since_o you_o be_v become_v sectary_n 5._o so_o do_v it_o among_o all_o church_n that_o become_v heretical_a or_o schismatical_a and_o the_o orthodox_n church_n and_o the_o apostle_n tell_v we_o that_o there_o must_v be_v heresy_n 1_o cor._n 11.19_o so_o it_o be_v not_o so_o extraordinary_a a_o case_n as_o you_o m._n s._n make_v it_o and_o therefore_o there_o must_v be_v a_o ecclesiastical_a ordinance_n for_o it_o as_o well_o in_o the_o church_n as_o in_o the_o state_n 1._o unless_o you_o say_v that_o god_n be_v more_o provident_a for_o the_o state_n then_o for_o the_o church_n or_o more_o negligent_a in_o his_o care_n of_o the_o church_n then_o of_o the_o state_n 2._o there_o be_v a_o remedy_n for_o such_o case_n in_o the_o old_a testament_n as_o i_o show_v you_o in_o my_o annotation_n wherefore_o not_o also_o in_o the_o new_a testament_n 3._o howbeit_o it_o be_v not_o a_o every_o day_n case_n yet_o the_o independent_o have_v a_o remedy_n for_o it_o viz._n the_o sentence_n of_o non-communion_n whereof_o i_o may_v say_v as_o much_o as_o he_o say_v of_o excommunication_n for_o the_o independent_a church_n can_v not_o pronounce_v such_o a_o sentence_n unless_o they_o have_v or_o pretend_v to_o have_v a_o authoritative_a power_n to_o do_v it_o for_o it_o belong_v to_o the_o power_n of_o the_o key_n 4._o it_o be_v or_o may_v be_v more_o ordinary_a among_o the_o independent_a church_n then_o among_o we_o 1._o because_o of_o their_o independency_n and_o want_v of_o superior_a ecclesiastical_a power_n to_o keep_v they_o in_o order_n 2._o because_o they_o tie_v the_o member_n of_o their_o church_n never_o to_o quit_v they_o without_o the_o church_n consent_n whereof_o they_o be_v member_n which_o may_v breed_v quarrel_n betwixt_o two_o church_n if_o a_o member_n of_o the_o one_o without_o her_o consent_n join_v himself_o to_o the_o other_o 3._o and_o this_o may_v be_v confirm_v by_o the_o example_n of_o those_o most_o bitter_a quarrel_n betwixt_o two_o of_o your_o church_n and_o their_o pastor_n in_o holland_n as_o it_o be_v relate_v by_o master_n edward_n in_o his_o antapologia_fw-la but_o according_a to_o ordinary_a providence_n no_o such_o thing_n can_v fall_v out_o among_o our_o church_n and_o if_o it_o shall_v fall_v out_o we_o have_v a_o present_a remedy_n viz._n a_o class_n which_o may_v be_v gather_v within_o the_o space_n of_o four_o or_o five_o day_n if_o that_o do_v not_o the_o business_n we_o may_v gather_v a_o synod_n or_o a_o superior_a power_n which_o can_v moral_o be_v contemn_v among_o we_o by_o any_o inferior_a power_n as_o the_o equal_a power_n of_o independent_a church_n may_v by_o their_o equal_a if_o it_o fall_v out_o extraordinary_o among_o we_o we_o have_v a_o ordinary_a remedy_n for_o such_o a_o extraordinary_a case_n and_o howbeit_o it_o be_v extraordinary_a and_o very_o rare_a yet_o shall_v there_o be_v a_o remedy_n provide_v for_o it_o so_o soon_o as_o once_o it_o fall_v out_o for_o it_o be_v a_o case_n that_o bring_v a_o very_a great_a mischief_n with_o it_o viz._n the_o revoult_n of_o a_o church_n or_o many_o church_n that_o be_v a_o inconvenience_n yea_o a_o mischief_n a_o thousand_o time_n worse_o howbeit_o it_o shall_v fall_v out_o but_o once_o in_o a_o age_n than_o all_o the_o dropping_n of_o master_n goodwin_n or_o all_o the_o inconvenience_n that_o can_v be_v allege_v against_o a_o constant_a remedy_n be_v they_o as_o real_a as_o they_o be_v fictitious_a and_o imaginary_a three_o m._n s._n answer_v my_o first_o argument_n they_o that_o implead_v the_o congregationall_a way_n for_o be_v defective_a suppose_v that_o god_n have_v put_v a_o sufficiency_n of_o power_n into_o the_o hand_n of_o man_n to_o remedy_v all_o possible_a defect_n error_n and_o miscarriage_n of_o man_n whatsoever_o but_o that_o be_v untrue_a ergo._n a._n s._n i_o answer_v they_o suppose_v not_o that_o god_n have_v put_v into_o their_o hand_n a_o sufficiency_n of_o power_n to_o remedy_v all_o defect_n and_o miscarriage_n whatsoever_o or_o all_o possible_a absolute_o but_o ex_fw-la suppositione_n finis_fw-la obtinendi_fw-la i._n e._n that_o may_v conduce_v to_o obtain_v the_o end_n that_o god_n have_v command_v we_o to_o intend_v and_o to_o tend_v unto_o for_o since_o his_o will_n be_v that_o spiritual_a disease_n be_v cure_v it_o must_v consequent_o be_v to_o give_v the_o remedy_n necessary_a or_o sufficient_a to_o obtain_v such_o a_o end_n or_o cure_v 2._o i_o suppose_v not_o that_o god_n have_v give_v we_o all_o mean_n sufficient_a physicè_fw-la but_o moraliter_fw-la i._n e._n that_o be_v moral_o sufficient_a and_o whereby_o moral_o we_o may_v be_v convict_v of_o sin_n if_o we_o use_v they_o not_o as_o cure_v of_o our_o ill_n if_o we_o use_v they_o 3._o i_o suppose_v that_o they_o must_v be_v sufficient_a according_a to_o god_n ordinary_a providence_n whereby_o he_o govern_v ordinary_o his_o church_n and_o not_o absolute_o 4._o as_o sufficient_a as_o in_o the_o civil_a state_n or_o as_o in_o the_o old_a testament_n at_o least_o since_o the_o government_n in_o the_o new_a testament_n be_v as_o perfect_v as_o in_o the_o old_a and_o not_o simple_o or_o absolute_o and_o so_o the_o assumption_n be_v false_a m._n s._n prove_v that_o this_o inconveniency_n press_v as_o well_o the_o presbyterian_o as_o the_o independent_o if_o your_o supreme_a session_n of_o presbytery_n shall_v miscarry_v say_v he_o and_o give_v we_o hay_n stubble_n and_o wood_n instead_o of_o silver_n and_o gold_n what_o remedy_n a._n s._n this_o be_v a_o very_a extraordinary_a case_n yea_o the_o most_o extraordinary_a that_o can_v be_v imagine_v viz._n that_o all_o the_o church_n both_o in_o superior_a and_o inferior_a judicatories_n shall_v so_o miscarry_v and_o yet_o if_o a_o man_n have_v use_v all_o possible_a mean_n and_o this_o miscarry_v also_o which_o be_v more_o than_o any_o ordinary_a case_n we_o may_v say_v 1._o that_o we_o have_v have_v all_o mean_n that_o be_v moral_o possible_a and_o that_o no_o more_o can_v moral_o be_v desire_v 2._o we_o have_v have_v all_o the_o mean_n and_o if_o we_o serve_v ourselves_o of_o they_o all_o till_o we_o come_v to_o this_o extraordinary_a case_n we_o be_v excusable_a 3._o we_o have_v have_v all_o the_o mean_n possible_a according_a to_o god_n ordinary_a providence_n 4._o all_o mean_n that_o they_o have_v in_o the_o old_a testament_n or_o that_o they_o have_v in_o the_o state_n 5._o i_o answer_v that_o this_o supposition_n may_v as_o well_o be_v propound_v against_o god_n providence_n in_o the_o government_n of_o the_o state_n and_o of_o the_o church_n of_o the_o old_a testament_n as_o against_o that_o