Selected quad for the lemma: cause_n

Word A	Word B	Word C	Word D	Occurrence	Frequency Band	MI	MI Band	Prominent
cause_n	ability_n	able_a	concern_v	14	3	4.6989	4	false

Text snippets containing the quad

ID	Title	Author	Corrected Date of Publication (TCP Date of Publication)	STC	Words	Pages
A93884	The second part of the duply to M.S. alias Two brethren. Wherein are maintained the Kings, Parliaments, and all civil magistrates authority about the Church. Subordination of ecclesiasticall judicatories. Refuted the independency of particular congregations. Licentiousnesse of wicked conscience, and toleration of all sorts of most detestable schismes, heresies and religions; as, idolatry, paganisme, turcisme, Judaisme, Arrianisme, Brownisme, anabaptisme, &c. which M.S. maintain in their book. With a brief epitome and refutation of all the whole independent-government. Most humbly submitted to the Kings most excellent Majestie. To the most Honorable Houses of Parliament. The most Reverend and learned Divines of the Assembly. And all the Protestant churches in this island and abroad. By Adam Steuart. Octob. 3. 1644. Imprimatur Ja: Cranford.; Duply to M.S. alias Two brethren. Part 2.	Steuart, Adam.	1644 (1644)	Wing S5491; Thomason E20_7; ESTC R2880	197,557	205

be_v discuss_v in_o those_o judicatories_n 3._o they_o have_v more_o in_o our_o way_n for_o they_o have_v our_o confession_n of_o faith_n and_o our_o discipline_n write_v or_o in_o print_n and_o may_v study_v it_o every_o day_n at_o home_n which_o be_v not_o usual_a among_o the_o independent_o who_o be_v never_o resolve_v neither_o in_o their_o confession_n of_o faith_n nor_o in_o their_o government_n neither_o will_v they_o have_v any_o one_o common_a to_o all_o their_o church_n if_o private_a christian_n desire_v more_o than_o this_o they_o may_v go_v to_o the_o university_n 4._o this_o argument_n strike_v at_o the_o government_n of_o the_o state_n that_o of_o the_o old_a testament_n and_o at_o the_o proceed_n of_o the_o apostle_n act._n 15._o and_o 16._o m._n s._n his_o 6._o arg._n in_o substance_n be_v that_o the_o premise_n whereupon_o conclusion_n be_v ground_v can_v be_v so_o well_o know_v and_o examine_v in_o class_n and_o synod_n as_o in_o a_o independent_a congregation_n wherein_o the_o matter_n be_v pass_v ergo_fw-la it_o shall_v be_v judge_v there_o and_o not_o in_o class_n synod_n etc._n etc._n a._n s._n 1._o this_o argument_n as_o the_o rest_n conclude_v as_o well_o against_o the_o proceed_n in_o civil_a judicatories_n that_o of_o the_o church_n of_o the_o old_a testament_n that_o at_o antiochia_n and_o at_o hierusalens_n as_o against_o the_o presbyterian_a way_n 2._o among_o we_o the_o business_n be_v first_o examine_v before_o the_o parochial_a presbytery_n or_o session_n where_o all_o the_o premise_n may_v be_v as_o well_o try_v as_o in_o the_o independent_a congregation_n and_o in_o case_n of_o appeal_v they_o may_v be_v carry_v to_o the_o class_n or_o synod_n 3._o what_o if_o the_o difference_n be_v betwixt_o two_o divers_a church_n or_o two_o person_n of_o divers_a church_n and_o the_o premise_n be_v action_n or_o offence_n commit_v out_o of_o both_o the_o church_n then_o in_o such_o a_o case_n the_o business_n can_v be_v prove_v in_o any_o of_o the_o church_n what_o if_o the_o business_n need_v no_o proof_n but_o be_v some_o scandalous_a doctrinc_n m._n s._n add_v that_o for_o brevity_n sake_n he_o will_v not_o strengthen_v his_o argument_n as_o he_o may_v a._n s._n and_o in_o this_o we_o praise_v his_o prudence_n in_o publish_v unto_o the_o world_n such_o frivolous_a argument_n yea_o that_o have_v not_o so_o much_o as_o any_o apparent_a probability_n in_o they_o whether_o a_o independent_a government_n ought_v to_o be_v tolerate_v in_o this_o kingdom_n to_o the_o end_n we_o may_v proceed_v clear_o in_o this_o question_n it_o be_v to_o be_v note_v that_o by_o this_o kingdom_n i_o mean_v the_o kingdom_n of_o england_n wherein_o this_o government_n have_v never_o yet_o be_v receive_v 2._o it_o be_v to_o be_v note_v that_o a_o toleration_n be_v either_o positiuè_n whereby_o positive_o by_o law_n actual_a consent_n approbation_n or_o otherways_o we_o receive_v or_o give_v way_n to_o any_o thing_n or_o negatiuè_fw-la when_o neither_o by_o any_o posicive_a act_n law_n actual_a consent_n or_o approbation_n we_o give_v way_n to_o any_o thing_n but_o only_o actual_o we_o oppose_v it_o not_o make_v no_o law_n against_o it_o dissent_v not_o reprove_v it_o not_o etc._n etc._n again_o both_o the_o one_o and_o the_o other_o be_v either_o of_o particular_a man_n or_o of_o church_n and_o again_o that_o of_o particular_a man_n either_o simple_o to_o enjoy_v their_o conscience_n in_o not_o oblige_v they_o to_o be_v actor_n in_o any_o thing_n against_o the_o light_n thereof_o or_o to_o give_v they_o leave_v free_o to_o discourse_v upon_o all_o occasion_n with_o other_o concern_v their_o tenet_n yea_o though_o it_o be_v to_o seduce_v they_o 3._o it_o it_o be_v again_o to_o be_v note_v that_o by_o independent_a government_n i_o mean_v that_o whereby_o every_o particular_a congregation_n be_v so_o govern_v that_o every_o member_n thereof_o have_v a_o hand_n in_o it_o and_o all_o the_o part_n of_o it_o and_o so_o as_o not_o to_o acknowledge_v any_o ecclesiastical_a power_n in_o this_o world_n above_o it_o the_o state_n of_o the_o question_n than_o be_v whether_o such_o independent_o shall_v have_v any_o positive_a or_o negative_a but_o principal_o a_o positive_a toleration_n not_o only_o for_o their_o person_n but_o also_o for_o their_o church_n in_o this_o kingdon_n wherein_o they_o be_v not_o yet_o admit_v m._n s._n with_o the_o rest_n of_o his_o sect_n the_o brownist_n anabaptist_n antinomian_o familist_n arminian_o servetist_n socinian_o and_o other_o sect_n in_o this_o kingdom_n maintain_v the_o affirmative_a but_o the_o orthodox_n stand_v for_o the_o negative_a the_o reason_n for_o the_o orthodox_n part_n may_v be_v these_o that_o follow_v 1._o such_o a_o toleration_n can_v but_o open_v a_o door_n to_o all_o sort_n of_o erroneous_a opinion_n m._n s._n deni_v this_o assumption_n for_o say_v he_o by_o the_o same_o reason_n he_o that_o receive_v one_o discreet_a servant_n into_o his_o house_n must_v receive_v all_o prince_n rupert_n troop_n to_o rack_v and_o manger_n with_o he_o a._n s._n but_o m._n s._n understand_v not_o or_o take_v upon_o he_o that_o he_o understand_v not_o my_o argument_n for_o my_o meaning_n be_v not_o as_o he_o misconstrueth_n it_o that_o by_o the_o same_o reason_n all_o other_o sect_n must_v be_v admit_v which_o be_v my_o four_o reason●●_n a_o pari_fw-la but_o that_o independency_n be_v once_o receive_v into_o the_o state_n it_o will_v per_fw-la se_fw-la and_o naturâ_fw-la suâ_fw-la of_o itself_o open_v a_o door_n to_o all_o sort_n of_o erroneous_a opinion_n which_o be_v a_o argument_n not_o a_o pari_fw-la as_o the_o other_o but_o a_o causâ_fw-la ad_fw-la effectum_fw-la for_o if_o the_o independent_a church_n acknowledge_v no_o superior_a ecclesiastical_a power_n and_o that_o the_o civil_a magistrate_n in_o good_a conscience_n can_v punish_v they_o then_o in_o case_n any_o or_o many_o of_o they_o fall_v into_o heresy_n it_o will_v open_v a_o door_n to_o heresy_n 2._o m._n s._n answer_v that_o a_o toleration_n of_o independency_n will_v be_v a_o effectual_a mean_n of_o chase_v away_o of_o erroneous_a opinion_n a._n s._n this_o be_v but_o a_o strong_a imagination_n of_o m._n s._n which_o may_v as_o easy_o be_v deny_v by_o we_o upon_o our_o reason_n here_o above_o allege_v as_o it_o be_v bold_o assert_v by_o he_o without_o any_o reason_n at_o all_o as_o for_o that_o which_o he_o cit_v out_o of_o my_o book_n that_o i_o acknowledge_v they_o for_o man_n of_o ability_n sufficient_a enough_o to_o dispute_v their_o opinion_n a._n s._n i_o have_v answer_v this_o sundry_a time_n 1._o it_o be_v but_o a_o judgement_n of_o one_o man_n 2._o but_o a_o judgement_n of_o charity_n which_o howbeit_o it_o be_v practical_o true_a yet_o oftentimes_o it_o prove_v speculative_o false_a 3._o it_o be_v not_o a_o certain_a but_o a_o probable_a judgement_n whereof_o he_o do_v not_o well_o to_o brag_v so_o much_o 4._o howbeit_o they_o may_v not_o want_v ability_n to_o dispute_v probable_o yet_o may_v they_o want_v ability_n to_o demonstrate_v their_o opinion_n theological_o yea_o neither_o all_o they_o nor_o ten_o thousand_o such_o as_o m.s._n with_o they_o shall_v ever_o be_v able_a to_o bring_v any_o strong_a argument_n for_o any_o one_o of_o their_o tenet_n that_o they_o hold_v against_o we_o 5._o if_o they_o have_v so_o great_a ability_n to_o dispute_v their_o opinion_n the_o devil_n have_v yet_o great_a can_v able_a lawyer_n dispute_v very_o well_o a_o very_a ill_a cause_n know_v you_o not_o what_o be_v say_v of_o a_o very_a able_a man_n vbi_fw-la benè_fw-la nemo_fw-la meliùs_fw-la ubi_fw-la malè_fw-la nemo_fw-la pejùs_fw-la true_o you_o dispute_v with_o such_o heat_n and_o ardency_n for_o the_o independent_a learning_n and_o godliness_n that_o it_o seem_v almost_o the_o only_a quarrel_n you_o have_v against_o we_o whether_o you_o be_v the_o learn_a and_o godly_a man_n in_o this_o kingdom_n or_o not_o you_o and_o they_o seem_v to_o maintain_v the_o affirmative_a at_o least_o concern_v the_o last_o part_n of_o this_o thesis_n if_o not_o both_o and_o scarce_o see_v we_o any_o book_n of_o independency_n set_v forth_o wherein_o we_o see_v not_o great_a complaìnt_n that_o their_o ability_n be_v not_o high_a enough_o prize_v and_o what_o they_o say_v of_o their_o pretend_a piety_n all_o the_o world_n know_v whereas_o your_o pretend_a adversary_n speak_v never_o a_o word_n but_o of_o the_o cause_n unless_o they_o be_v provoke_v by_o the_o vain_a and_o exorbitant_a praise_n that_o you_o ever_o and_o anon_o undeserved_o bestow_v upon_o yourselves_o 6._o but_o how_o able_a soever_o you_o or_o they_o be_v yet_o for_o they_o it_o be_v clear_a the_o assembly_n have_v divers_a time_n put_v they_o to_o a_o nonplus_n 7._o and_o if_o they_o be_v so_o able_a what_o other_o reason_n can_v there_o be_v that_o they_o plead_v no_o

better_o their_o cause_n fave_v only_o that_o it_o be_v naught_o it_o be_v true_o a_o strange_a thing_n that_o man_n of_o so_o great_a ability_n shall_v be_v able_a to_o say_v no_o more_o for_o themselves_o 8._o and_o since_o you_o m.s._n and_o they_o be_v so_o able_a will_v you_o or_o they_o i_o pray_v condescend_v to_o some_o private_a meeting_n with_o some_o of_o the_o presbyterian_o that_o it_o may_v be_v see_v who_o have_v the_o best_a cause_n and_o whether_o or_o no_o all_o your_o deep_a learning_n and_o great_a skill_n in_o sophistication_n wherein_o you_o so_o excel_v can_v set_v any_o probable_a show_n or_o face_n of_o reason_n upon_o your_o opinion_n which_o you_o hold_v to_o be_v no_o less_o than_o god_n reveal_v word_n m._n s._n answer_v 3._o better_o a_o door_n open_v to_o all_o sort_n of_o erroneous_a opinion_n yea_o and_o to_o many_o other_o inconvenience_n great_a than_o this_o then_o that_o the_o guilt_n of_o any_o persecution_n or_o of_o any_o evil_a entreat_n of_o the_o saint_n and_o people_n of_o god_n shall_v cleave_v unto_o the_o people_n or_o state_n a._n s._n this_o m._n s._n suppose_v 1._o that_o the_o independent_o be_v the_o saint_n 2._o and_o that_o in_o case_n they_o be_v not_o tolerate_v in_o establish_v public_o their_o church_n government_n and_o other_o tenet_n in_o despite_n of_o church_n and_o parliament_n both_o in_o the_o church_n and_o state_n that_o it_o be_v no_o less_o than_o the_o guilt_n of_o persecution_n against_o the_o saint_n draw_v upon_o the_o state_n 3._o that_o it_o be_v better_a that_o all_o the_o heresy_n of_o the_o world_n and_o worse_o shall_v creep_v into_o the_o church_n then_o that_o they_o shall_v not_o be_v tolerate_v but_o chastise_v in_o case_n they_o trouble_v the_o peace_n of_o either_o church_n or_o state_n i_o answer_v that_o all_o that_o m._n s._n here_o say_v be_v damnable_a untruth_n and_o that_o it_o be_v better_a that_o all_o the_o independent_o of_o this_o world_n be_v in_o america_n and_o that_o ten_o thousand_o time_n worse_o shall_v befall_v they_o then_o that_o the_o good_a name_n of_o god_n shall_v be_v dishonour_v by_o filthy_a heresy_n and_o if_o the_o independent_o have_v any_o fear_n of_o god_n before_o their_o eye_n and_o love_v not_o themselves_o better_a a_o great_a deal_n then_o god_n glory_n they_o will_v rather_o desire_v with_o moses_n to_o be_v scrape_v out_o of_o the_o book_n of_o life_n or_o with_o paul_n to_o be_v separate_v from_o christ_n then_o that_o christ_n church_n shall_v so_o suffer_v or_o god_n bless_a name_n be_v so_o dishonour_v a._n s._n 2._o reason_n it_o be_v dangerous_a for_o the_o state_n it_o may_v breed_v faction_n and_o division_n betwixt_o all_o person_n of_o whatsoever_o relation_n betwixt_o the_o magistrate_n and_o the_o subject_a the_o husband_n and_o the_o wife_n the_o father_n and_o the_o son_n brethren_n and_o sister_n the_o master_n and_o the_o servant_n when_o the_o one_o be_v of_o one_o religion_n or_o ecclesiastical_a government_n and_o the_o other_o of_o another_o as_o you_o yea_o to_o your_o no_o very_a great_a advantage_n have_v experiment_a it_o several_a time_n the_o son_n may_v refuse_v to_o receive_v any_o communion_n with_o the_o father_n and_o the_o brother_n with_o the_o brother_n to_o the_o utter_a dissolution_n of_o all_o natural_a civil_a and_o domestical_a bond_n of_o society_n and_o the_o reason_n of_o this_o may_v be_v because_o the_o one_o may_v excommunicate_v the_o other_o as_o daily_a experience_n testify_v m._n s._n the_o shadow_n of_o the_o mountain_n seem_v man_n unto_o you_o judg._n 9.36_o a._n s._n so_o say_v zebul_n the_o servant_n of_o abimelech_n the_o son_n of_o the_o concubine_n who_o by_o a_o conspiracy_n with_o the_o schichemite_n be_v make_v king_n and_o afterward_o murder_v his_o brethren_n and_o yet_o they_o be_v man_n viz._n wicked_a abimelech_n with_o his_o army_n and_o no_o shadow_n of_o mountain_n m._n s._n will_v have_v we_o live_v in_o security_n and_o will_v rather_o tolerate_v socinianism_n arminianism_n yea_o judaism_n and_o mahumetanism_n then_o that_o his_o own_o sect_n shall_v not_o be_v tolerate_v of_o so_o large_a a_o conscience_n be_v he_o a.s._n it_o may_v breed_v faction_n etc._n etc._n m.s._n but_o a._n s._n his_o may_n may_v possible_o not_o come_v in_o a_o age_n no_o nor_o in_o many_o generation_n and_o will_v he_o have_v so_o many_o thousand_o of_o the_o dear_a people_n of_o god_n as_o do_v apologise_v to_o eat_v their_o bread_n in_o darkness_n and_o he_o say_v heretofore_o that_o may_v come_v but_o once_o a_o year_n a.s._n it_o be_v subtle_o argue_v m.s._n of_o you_o with_o your_o may_n but_o it_o be_v too_o much_o that_o such_o a_o may_v come_v once_o a_o year_n or_o once_o in_o a_o age_n and_o better_a be_v it_o ten_o thousand_o of_o you_o shall_v perish_v than_o god_n be_v so_o offend_v for_o it_o be_v a_o maxim_n in_o divinity_n quodvis_fw-la malum_fw-la paenae_fw-la etiam_fw-la maximum_fw-la eligendum_fw-la potius_fw-la quàm_fw-la minimum_fw-la malum_fw-la culpae_fw-la nam_fw-la quaevis_fw-la culpa_fw-la pejor_fw-la quavis_fw-la poenâ_fw-la 2._o but_o i_o pray_v you_o learn_v of_o i_o that_o as_o impossibile_fw-it morale_fw-mi in_o moral_a matter_n such_o as_o this_o whereof_o we_o dispute_v be_v not_o that_o which_o never_o but_o which_o rare_o or_o hardly_o fall_v out_o so_o be_v possibile_fw-la morale_fw-la idem_fw-la quod_fw-la facilè_fw-la which_o easy_o and_o oftentimes_o fall_v out_o and_o not_o that_o fall_v out_o but_o once_o in_o a_o age_n and_o that_o it_o fall_v out_o so_o very_o oft_o we_o may_v prove_v it_o by_o the_o division_n in_o france_n the_o netherlands_o germany_n poland_n transilvania_n etc._n etc._n what_o i_o pray_v transport_v the_o crown_n of_o swede_n from_o the_o nephew_n to_o the_o uncle_n what_o move_v a_o king_n of_o spain_n to_o consent_v to_o his_o own_o son_n death_n what_o be_v the_o cause_n of_o so_o great_a a_o war_n betwixt_o the_o turk_n and_o the_o persian_a and_o final_o what_o be_v the_o cause_n of_o this_o our_o present_a war_n but_o the_o favour_v of_o popery_n the_o negotiation_n with_o rome_n our_o agent_n there_o father_n con_n and_o the_o pope_n nuncio_n here_o 2._o you_o be_v not_o so_o many_o thousand_o as_o you_o brag_v of_o save_v in_o london_n and_o a_o few_o mile_n about_o it_o your_o sect_n i_o think_v may_v easy_o be_v count_v by_o hundred_o and_o as_o for_o the_o remote_a part_n of_o the_o kingdom_n they_o be_v unknown_a creature_n to_o they_o 3._o if_o they_o be_v so_o dear_a to_o god_n they_o can_v never_o qua_fw-la tale_n suffer_v for_o so_o wicked_a a_o cause_n as_o for_o all_o licentiousness_n in_o religion_n 4._o they_o need_v not_o to_o suffer_v if_o they_o will_v not_o be_v turbulent_a but_o quiet_a and_o submit_v unto_o the_o law_n of_o the_o kingdom_n and_o such_o a_o ecclesiastical_a government_n as_o in_o god_n mercy_n shall_v be_v establish_v in_o the_o church_n what_o a_o sauciness_n be_v this_o that_o they_o will_v be_v content_a with_o nothing_o unless_o in_o despite_n of_o church_n and_o state_n they_o may_v do_v what_o they_o will_v 5._o as_o for_o his_o rhetorication_n in_o tell_v i_o that_o i_o be_o breed_v of_o rock_n and_o suck_v the_o milk_n of_o tiger_n all_o that_o shall_v not_o hinder_v i_o to_o maintain_v that_o the_o independent_o must_v be_v subject_a to_o order_n and_o authority_n both_o civil_a and_o ecclesiastical_a as_o other_o man_n be_v or_o else_o suffer_v for_o their_o turbulent_a humour_n m._n s._n i_o will_v know_v of_o he_o whether_o he_o deem_v himself_o to_o be_v of_o another_o religion_n than_o the_o apologist_n if_o so_o candorem_fw-la tuum_fw-la a.s._n in_o that_o malignant_a expression_n etc._n etc._n a.s._n as_o for_o my_o religion_n you_o may_v know_v it_o m.s._n it_o be_v that_o which_o be_v declare_v in_o the_o confession_n of_o the_o church_n of_o scotland_n england_n the_o netherlands_o france_n etc._n etc._n but_o as_o for_o you_o sed_fw-la vos_fw-la qui_fw-la tandem_fw-la quibus_fw-la aut_fw-la venistis_fw-la ab_fw-la eris_fw-la quouè_fw-la tenetis_fw-la iter_fw-la that_o i_o know_v not_o and_o consequent_o whether_o i_o be_v of_o your_o religion_n or_o not_o you_o will_v have_v no_o confession_n of_o faith_n or_o discipline_n but_o what_o you_o may_v change_v fidem_fw-la diariam_fw-la aut_fw-la ad_fw-la summum_fw-la menstruam_fw-la such_o as_o you_o may_v change_v with_o every_o moon_n but_o to_o come_v more_o near_o to_o the_o point_n i_o pray_v you_o set_v forth_o a_o confession_n of_o faith_n in_o the_o name_n of_o all_o the_o independent_a church_n and_o subscribe_v all_o of_o you_o that_o you_o will_v stand_v to_o it_o and_o then_o i_o will_v answer_v your_o question_n if_o you_o will_v not_o here_o i_o will_v give_v you_o the_o best_a satisfaction_n i_o can_v and_o it_o be_v this_o viz._n

a.s._n answ_n the_o parliament_n have_v power_n and_o a_o call_n to_o judge_n politicè_fw-la about_o the_o church_n and_o church_n matter_n what_o decision_n and_o constitution_n of_o the_o church_n assembly_n they_o will_v approve_v or_o disapprove_v what_o religion_n doctrine_n and_o discipline_n they_o will_v admit_v or_o tolerate_v in_o the_o state_n but_o they_o have_v no_o call_n or_o directive_n authoritative_a power_n in_o the_o church_n to_o judge_v this_o or_o that_o to_o be_v the_o true_a doctrine_n or_o discipline_n this_o belong_v to_o church-officer_n yet_o they_o have_v a_o private_a judgement_n of_o discretion_n about_o such_o matter_n as_o other_o christian_n and_o a_o public_a political_a authoritative_a judgement_n and_o a_o coactive_a political_a power_n to_o compel_v the_o subject_n to_o admit_v in_o the_o state_n such_o or_o such_o a_o true_a doctrine_n or_o discipline_n of_o the_o church_n howbeit_o not_o to_o believe_v it_o or_o to_o love_n or_o approve_v it_o in_o their_o judgement_n or_o will_n m._n s._n ob._n 14._o ask_v whether_o it_o be_v reasonable_a that_o the_o apologist_n matter_n yet_o remain_v undecided_a and_o unjudge_v between_o they_o and_o their_o brethren_n shall_v suffer_v as_o man_n convict_v only_o because_o their_o adversary_n and_o accuser_n the_o brethren_n you_o know_v of_o be_v more_o in_o number_n than_o they_o and_o will_v needs_o continue_v adversary_n to_o they_o a.s._n answ_n 1._o though_o you_o vaunt_v evermore_o of_o your_o suffering_n we_o have_v never_o see_v they_o 2._o these_o who_o you_o unjust_o call_v your_o adversary_n have_v suffer_v much_o more_o than_o you_o and_o yet_o publish_v it_o not_o unto_o the_o world_n 3._o it_o be_v absolute_o false_a that_o you_o suffer_v 4._o and_o yet_o much_o false_a that_o you_o suffer_v as_o man_n convict_v 5._o and_o yet_o false_a that_o you_o suffer_v because_o your_o adversary_n be_v more_o in_o number_n and_o 6._o false_a of_o all_o that_o only_o you_o suffer_v for_o that_o 7._o man_n that_o suffer_v be_v not_o honour_v as_o you_o be_v neither_o receive_v they_o so_o great_a favour_n present_n and_o benefice_n as_o you_o do_v 8._o it_o be_v a_o great_a sufferance_n to_o the_o church_n of_o god_n to_o be_v calumniate_v and_o upbraid_v by_o so_o contemptible_a a_o number_n of_o minister_n and_o to_o see_v so_o many_o libel_n print_v against_o she_o by_o those_o of_o your_o sect._n 9_o it_o be_v false_a that_o you_o be_v not_o condemn_v for_o the_o church_n of_o england_n and_o all_o other_o protestant_a church_n in_o approve_v the_o presbyterian_a government_n as_o we_o say_v heretofore_o can_v not_o but_o disprove_v and_o condemn_v you_o all_o who_o condemn_v it_o 10._o neither_o do_v all_o this_o prove_v a_o directive_n ecclesiastical_a power_n belong_v to_o the_o civil_a magistrate_n 11._o you_o have_v no_o adversary_n here_o but_o your_o false_a opinion_n 12._o neither_o be_v your_o brethren_n adversary_n to_o you_o but_o to_o your_o erronion_n opinion_n which_o be_v a_o thousand_o time_n more_o your_o adversary_n than_o they_o 13._o and_o both_o you_o and_o any_o of_o we_o must_v legal_o suffer_v according_a to_o our_o demerit_n when_o we_o be_v sufficient_o convict_v and_o condemn_v by_o plurality_n of_o vote_n in_o foro_fw-la externo_fw-la as_o you_o be_v already_o in_o very_a many_o thing_n for_o this_o be_v the_o way_n of_o all_o civil_a and_o ecclesiastical_a judicatories_n neither_o can_v independent_o change_v it_o 15._o ibid._n m.s._n reason_v thus_o if_o our_o saviour_n testimony_n concern_v himself_o in_o his_o own_o cause_n be_v not_o valid_a how_o much_o less_o the_o testimony_n of_o any_o other_o yea_o of_o a_o thousand_o in_o any_o matter_n that_o concern_v themselves_o and_o consequent_o that_o of_o our_o brethren_n in_o the_o synod_n but_o the_o first_o be_v true_a joh._n 5.31_o if_o i_o bear_v witness_n of_o myself_o my_o witness_n be_v not_o true_a i._n e._n it_o be_v not_o in_o a_o formal_a and_o legal_a interpretation_n true_a but_o you_o may_v reasonable_o wave_v it_o a.s._n ans_fw-fr 1._o either_o christ_n here_o speak_v of_o his_o own_o testimony_n speak_v of_o himself_o according_a to_o his_o divine_a to_o his_o humane_a or_o according_a to_o both_o his_o nature_n item_n 2._o either_o he_o speak_v of_o its_o validity_n in_o itself_o or_o in_o respect_n of_o the_o jew_n to_o who_o he_o do_v speak_v and_o who_o shall_v have_v admit_v of_o it_o item_n 3._o either_o of_o his_o public_a and_o judicial_a or_o of_o his_o private_a testimony_n 1._o if_o in_o the_o first_o proposition_n we_o take_v our_o saviour_n according_a to_o his_o divine_a nature_n or_o according_a to_o both_o viz._n as_o mediator_n the_o assumption_n be_v false_a for_o there_o christ_n speak_v not_o of_o himself_o according_a to_o his_o divine_a nature_n or_o to_o both_o or_o as_o mediator_n for_o under_o that_o notion_n he_o be_v judge_n of_o quick_a and_o dead_a and_o christ_n say_v joh._n 8.14_o that_o if_o he_o testify_v of_o himself_o his_o testimony_n be_v true_a 2._o or_o if_o he_o speak_v of_o himself_o under_o this_o notion_n than_o he_o speak_v not_o of_o his_o testimony_n as_o it_o be_v in_o itself_o but_o as_o it_o be_v in_o respect_n of_o they_o who_o receive_v it_o not_o viz_o the_o jew_n and_o unbeliever_n who_o receive_v it_o not_o as_o the_o testimony_n of_o god_n or_o of_o the_o mediator_n however_o it_o be_v such_o for_o they_o know_v he_o not_o joh._n 8.15.19_o but_o they_o judge_v according_a to_o the_o flesh_n neither_o know_v they_o he_o nor_o his_o father_n and_o if_o they_o have_v know_v the_o king_n of_o glory_n they_o have_v never_o crucify_v he_o and_o then_o the_o proposition_n be_v false_a for_o it_o follow_v not_o that_o if_o christ_n testimony_n who_o be_v god_n be_v not_o acknowledge_v as_o valid_a by_o those_o who_o know_v it_o not_o ergo_fw-la the_o testimony_n of_o a_o presbytery_n or_o synod_n shall_v not_o be_v acknowledge_v by_o such_o as_o be_v subject_a thereunto_o and_o know_v it_o for_o by_o the_o same_o reason_n two_o or_o three_o idle_a fellow_n shall_v not_o believe_v the_o testimony_n of_o your_o presbytery_n or_o assembly_n 3._o i_o retort_v then_o the_o argument_n if_o christ_n testimony_n be_v not_o legal_o valid_a in_o his_o own_o cause_n ergo_fw-la you_o in_o your_o presbytery_n and_o assembly_n be_v not_o legal_o true_a or_o valid_a in_o your_o own_o cause_n when_o you_o judge_v in_o matter_n of_o faith_n and_o and_o discipline_n but_o the_o first_o be_v true_a ergo_fw-la the_o second_o also_o 4._o if_o christ_n be_v here_o take_v according_a to_o his_o humane_a nature_n then_o either_o he_o be_v take_v according_a to_o his_o humane_a nature_n as_o it_o be_v in_o itself_o without_o sin_n or_o as_o it_o be_v in_o the_o pharise_n estimation_n if_o in_o the_o first_o way_n the_o assumption_n be_v false_a for_o there_o the_o pharise_n take_v christ_n for_o a_o sinful_a man_n and_o who_o can_v deny_v but_o that_o the_o testimony_n of_o a_o man_n in_o the_o state_n of_o integrity_n be_v valid_a 5._o if_o it_o be_v take_v in_o the_o second_o way_n i_o deny_v the_o first_o proposition_n for_o the_o testimony_n of_o judge_n in_o judge_v according_a to_o law_n in_o thing_n that_o concern_v not_o so_o much_o their_o person_n as_o the_o society_n that_o they_o represent_v in_o judgement_n as_o the_o assembly_n and_o all_o ecclesiastical_a judge_n do_v be_v to_o be_v prefer_v before_o the_o testimony_n of_o any_o particular_a man_n 6._o and_o if_o this_o maxim_n of_o the_o independent_o hold_v the_o judgement_n of_o no_o civil_a magistrate_n yea_o not_o of_o the_o parliament_n itself_o sh●ll_v hold_v if_o any_o of_o they_o or_o any_o delinquent_n take_v the_o parliament_n to_o party_n in_o any_o business_n the_o parliament_n will_v do_v well_o to_o take_v notice_n of_o such_o independent_a maxim_n 7._o but_o this_o be_v the_o arminian_o way_n at_o the_o synod_n of_o dort_n to_o the_o end_n they_o may_v decline_v the_o judgement_n of_o the_o synod_n and_o he_o be_v a_o arminian_n who_o propound_v this_o argument_n who_o of_o late_o be_v become_v a_o independent_a i_o ●eare_z they_o mean_v to_o unite_v the_o two_o sect_n in_o one_o 8._o christ_n be_v not_o here_o speak_v of_o himself_o how_o far_o forth_o his_o testimony_n and_o judgement_n may_v hold_v in_o a_o judicial_a way_n whereof_o we_o speak_v here_o but_o in_o a_o private_a way_n for_o this_o action_n be_v not_o judicial_a but_o a_o particular_a discourse_n 9_o neither_o be_v the_o business_n now_o in_o hand_n at_o the_o synod_n of_o particular_a but_o of_o public_a concernment_n viz._n the_o church_n wherein_o the_o church_n that_o be_v judge_n can_v be_v take_v to_o party_n however_o you_o call_v she_o a_o crowd_n wherein_o many_o particular_a person_n be_v concern_v m._n s._n ob._n 16._o p._n 37._o

sin_n and_o the_o more_o inexcusable_a be_v we_o 15._o and_o if_o the_o parliament_n shall_v follow_v your_o counsel_n good_a m._n s._n it_o shall_v be_v to_o be_v fear_v they_o shall_v be_v ill_o obey_v and_o that_o many_o good_a man_n will_v rather_o take_v the_o bishop_n and_o cavalier_n by_o the_o hand_n and_o in_o case_n of_o necessity_n tolerate_v they_o both_o and_o let_v themselves_o be_v plunder_v then_o consent_v to_o such_o a_o abominable_a perjury_n and_o i_o be_o assure_v the_o one_o be_v much_o more_o tolerable_a than_o the_o other_o be_v and_o then_o what_o shall_v become_v of_o the_o parliament_n and_o we_o all_o 16._o but_o tell_v i_o i_o pray_v thou_o m._n s._n be_v it_o not_o a_o maxim_n of_o state_n lay_v down_o as_o indubitable_a by_o those_o who_o have_v write_v in_o favour_n of_o these_o defensive_a war_n of_o both_o the_o kingdom_n that_o the_o king_n in_o temporal_a and_o civil_a matter_n have_v not_o a_o absolute_a but_o a_o limit_v power_n and_o that_o because_o that_o sovereign_a power_n be_v original_o in_o the_o people_n but_o subjectiuè_fw-la or_o quoad_fw-la usum_fw-la &_o exercitium_fw-la in_o the_o king_n if_o that_o hold_v in_o the_o king_n wherefore_o not_o also_o in_o the_o parliament_n but_o how_o much_o more_o in_o matter_n of_o religion_n that_o depend_v not_o either_o of_o king_n or_o parliament_n but_o of_o god_n will_v all_o power_n here_o be_v original_o in_o christ_n and_o quoad_fw-la exercitium_fw-la ministeriale_n in_o his_o officer_n but_o from_o christ_n what_o power_n have_v either_o king_n or_o parliament_n to_o intrude_v and_o force_v upon_o the_o kingdom_n new_a religion_n or_o a_o toleration_n of_o all_o sect_n 17._o the_o parliament_n assume_v no_o such_o power_n to_o itself_o wherefore_o then_o will_v independent_o be_v suitor_n to_o they_o for_o any_o such_o thing_n which_o they_o declare_v themselves_o they_o have_v not_o power_n to_o grant_v away_o with_o thou_o m._n s._n and_o all_o thy_o independent_a sect_n and_o all_o your_o unhappy_a maxim_n of_o state_n so_o pernicious_a to_o all_o state_n of_o the_o world_n after_o all_o this_o this_o m._n s._n tell_v we_o that_o they_o will_v with_o isaac_n patient_o suffer_v themselves_o to_o be_v bind_v and_o offer_v in_o sacrifice_n if_o need_v be_v a._n s._n it_o be_v easy_a to_o offer_v yourselves_o to_o be_v sacrifice_v when_o there_o be_v no_o priest_n and_o when_o no_o man_n offer_v you_o any_o violence_n but_o only_o pray_v you_o to_o live_v among_o we_o as_o brethren_n and_o not_o to_o trouble_v the_o church_n state_n or_o kingdom_n if_o you_o be_v mind_v to_o become_v such_o a_o free-will-offering_a in_o good_a earnest_n you_o will_v do_v well_o all_o of_o you_o in_o the_o first_o place_n to_o quit_v the_o good_a fat_a benefice_n you_o have_v in_o the_o church_n but_o so_o long_o as_o you_o keep_v they_o we_o can_v believe_v that_o you_o speak_v sincere_o always_o it_o be_v a_o pretty_a compliment_n and_o a_o paint_a sacrifice_n not_o with_o red_a but_o in_o white_a and_o black_a and_o to_o close_o up_o his_o reason_n he_o conclude_v thus_o better_a a_o thousand_o time_n be_v it_o that_o such_o distemper_n as_o these_o though_o find_v in_o million_o of_o man_n shall_v suffer_v be_v it_o never_o so_o deep_a then_o that_o the_o least_o hair_n of_o the_o head_n of_o one_o of_o those_o man_n shall_v fall_v to_o the_o ground_n i_o e._n better_o that_o million_o of_o we_o who_o desire_v the_o suppression_n of_o all_o sect_n shall_v suffer_v then_o that_o any_o of_o they_o shall_v loose_v but_o one_o yea_o the_o least_o hair_n of_o their_o head_n a._n s._n to_o this_o i_o can_v say_v nothing_o but_o if_o we_o in_o your_o opinion_n be_v so_o distemper_v for_o the_o desire_n we_o have_v to_o see_v sect_n suppress_v whereby_o god_n be_v offend_v the_o lord_n be_v judge_v betwixt_o we_o how_o precious_a in_o your_o eye_n one_o little_a hair_n of_o your_o head_n be_v which_o you_o prefer_v before_o the_o suffering_n of_o so_o many_o million_o the_o reader_n will_v do_v well_o to_o take_v it_o into_o his_o consideration_n and_o according_o to_o judge_v of_o you_o what_o a_o high_a rate_n you_o set_v by_o yourselves_o and_o what_o a_o undervalue_n you_o put_v upon_o all_o the_o world_n beside_o i_o be_o assure_v that_o servatâ_fw-la proportione_fw-la one_o of_o your_o life_n be_v better_a than_o the_o king_n and_o all_o the_o parliament_n put_v together_o for_o there_o be_v none_o of_o they_o but_o rather_o than_o that_o one_o man_n shall_v die_v they_o will_v part_v with_o the_o hair_n of_o their_o head_n and_o beard_n both_o a_o advertisement_n to_o the_o reader_n m_o s._n in_o the_o second_o chapter_n of_o his_o book_n section_n 28._o have_v some_o argument_n against_o the_o power_n of_o the_o civil_a magistrate_n to_o punish_v idolater_n heretic_n and_o schismatic_n which_o seem_v also_o to_o make_v for_o a_o toleration_n for_o these_o two_o question_n have_v a_o great_a affinity_n together_o wherefore_o i_o think_v it_o fit_a to_o put_v off_o my_o answer_n unto_o they_o to_o the_o last_o place_n the_o first_o be_v god_n have_v anoint_v his_o word_n and_o the_o ministry_n thereof_o for_o the_o cast_n down_o imagination_n and_o every_o high_a thing_n that_o exalt_v itself_o against_o the_o knowledge_n of_o god_n and_o for_o the_o bring_n into_o captivity_n every_o high_a thought_n unto_o the_o obedience_n of_o christ_n 2_o cor._n 10.5_o and_o he_o give_v some_o to_o be_v apostle_n etc._n etc._n ephes_n 4.11_o 12._o etc._n etc._n ergo_fw-la the_o civil_a magistrate_n have_v no_o power_n to_o punish_v heretic_n schismatic_n etc._n etc._n but_o must_v tolerate_v they_o a._n s._n 1._o i_o deny_v the_o consequence_n for_o the_o minister_n of_o the_o church_n be_v anoint_v to_o beat_v they_o down_o by_o spiritual_a mean_n viz._n the_o word_n etc._n etc._n whereof_o alone_o those_o text_n speak_v but_o the_o civil_a magistrate_n be_v anoint_v or_o call_v to_o beat_v they_o down_o by_o other_o mean_n viz._n by_o civil_a power_n and_o civil_a law_n which_o he_o be_v bind_v to_o make_v thereabouts_o and_o to_o see_v observe_v 2._o if_o this_o argument_n hold_v the_o civil_a magistrate_n can_v beat_v down_o by_o his_o civil_a authority_n sin_v commit_v against_o the_o second_o table_n as_o adultery_n murder_n etc._n etc._n because_o that_o the_o minister_n of_o god_n in_o the_o church_n beat_v they_o down_o spiritual_o by_o the_o word_n and_o this_o text_n be_v as_o well_o to_o be_v understand_v of_o sin_n against_o the_o one_o as_o the_o other_o table_n 3._o howsoever_o the_o power_n of_o the_o ministry_n or_o ecclesiastical_a power_n be_v able_a and_o sufficient_a to_o beat_v down_o all_o sin_n spiritual_o yet_o be_v it_o not_o sufficient_a or_o able_a to_o beat_v it_o down_o political_o 4._o neither_o say_v these_o text_n that_o god_n have_v anoint_v or_o ordain_v the_o word_n and_o ministry_n alone_o and_o no_o other_o mean_n or_o minister_n as_o the_o law_n of_o the_o kingdom_n and_o the_o civil_a magistrate_n in_o a_o political_a way_n for_o such_o a_o effect_n 5._o it_o be_v true_a as_o m._n s._n say_v that_o god_n give_v not_o some_o in_o the_o church_n to_o be_v king_n prince_n judges_z and_o justice_n of_o peace_n pursuivant_n jailer_n etc._n etc._n for_o christ_n and_o his_o apostle_n erect_v not_o any_o civil_a government_n in_o the_o state_n but_o suppose_v it_o already_o constitute_v in_o the_o old_a testament_n and_o that_o the_o civil_a magistrate_n therein_o be_v endow_v with_o civil_a authority_n to_o punish_v such_o as_o trouble_v the_o peace_n of_o the_o church_n 6._o howbeit_o that_o in_o this_o text_n there_o be_v no_o mention_n make_v of_o the_o civil_a magistrate_n power_n to_o punish_v such_o person_n yet_o be_v it_o declare_v in_o other_o text_n as_o rom._n 13.1_o there_o be_v no_o power_n but_o of_o god_n ergo_fw-la it_o be_v for_o god_n since_o god_n be_v both_o the_o first_o efficient_a and_o the_o last_o or_o ultimate_v final_a cause_n of_o all_o thing_n if_o he_o be_v for_o god_n ergo_fw-la he_o be_v to_o revenge_v his_o cause_n since_o he_o be_v his_o minister_n ver._n 4._o and_o when_o he_o make_v a_o political_a ordinance_n concern_v god_n service_n whosoever_o resist_v his_o power_n resist_v the_o ordinance_n of_o god_n and_o they_o that_o resist_v shall_v receive_v to_o themselvet_n condemnation_n both_o eternal_a and_o temporal_a verse_n 2._o if_o thou_o do_v that_o which_o be_v evil_a be_v afraid_a for_o he_o bear_v not_o the_o sword_n in_o vain_a for_o he_o be_v the_o minister_n of_o god_n as_o well_o in_o the_o state_n as_o the_o preacher_n in_o the_o church_n a_o revenger_n to_o execute_v wrath_n upon_o he_o that_o do_v evil_a here_o there_o be_v no_o distinction_n or_o restriction_n in_o the_o law_n ergo_fw-la it_o be_v