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A18883 Those fyue questions, which Marke Tullye Cicero, disputed in his manor of Tusculanum: written afterwardes by him, in as manye bookes, to his frende, and familiar Brutus, in the Latine tounge. And nowe, oute of the same translated, & englished, by Iohn Dolman, studente and felowe of the Inner Temple. 1561; Tusculanae disputationes. English Cicero, Marcus Tullius.; Dolman, John, of the Inner Temple. 1561 (1561) STC 5317; ESTC S107988 158,994 448

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commendation of the people seeme to me more prayseworthy then the contrarye Not for that I woulde haue suche thinges done out of the face of the people for al honest deedes loue to be placed in the light But because there is no greater prayse that vertue requyreth then the good iudgement of a sounde and vndefiled conscience And let vs chiefelye thinke that this sufferaunce of griefe whiche we haue sayd often heretofore ought to be strengthened with the earnest desyre of the minde oughte to be equally and indifferentlye shewed and applyed in all cases For many whyche eyther for desyre of conqueste and dictorye or couetyse of glory haue stoutelye abyden manye cruell strokes yet neuerthelesse sometimes the selfe same men are not able to abyde the paynes of a dissease For the cause is for that that payne whiche they suffred afore they suffred not learned by the guyde and conductynge of reason or wysedome but onelye for desyre of glorye And for that cause many rude and barbarous people can stoutely weld theyr weapons and yet neuerthelesse can not behaue theym selues manlye in theyr disease But the Grecians being men not verye stoute but wyse inough as the wyttes of men are diuerse can not behaue them selues stoutly against theyr enemyes and yet neuerthelesse can beare disseases pacientlye and as it becometh men And the Cimbrians and Celtiberians are stoute in the field and playne women in their sickenes For nothing can haue any equalitye or measure in it whych dothe not proceede of reason And when you see them whom eyther earneste desyre or els a vayne opinion moueth to coueyte anye thynge in folowynge and attayninge the same not to be wearyed of gryefe then oughte you to thinke that gryefe is eyther no euell at all or els if there be anye hardenes in it or anye thinge contrary to nature and for that cause it may please you to call it euell yet neuerthelesse that it is so litle and so muche ouercome of vertue that it can not appeare at all Whiche I beseche you ponder wyth your selfe For this reason wyll serue you to manye more vses then to auoyde gryefe For if we must referre all oure doynges to the auoydinge of dishon●stye then we shall not onelye neede to despyse the pryckes of sorowe but y ● thunderboltes of flatterynge fortune also Speciallye inasmuch as at our laste ende there is that hauen and porte prepared for vs of the whyche we reasoned the daye before namelye death For lyke as yf God woulde saye to a sayler persecuted wyth Pyrates cast thy selfe ouer the shyp borde for there is a Dolphine which will beare the as he did Arion or els the horse whiche drawe Neptunus chaire vpon the seas shal be ready to receyue the carye the whether so euer thou list Woulde not then this mariner thinke you abandone feare So when the sharpenes of gryefe doth vexe vs if it be suche that we can not beare it you see where is our refuge Thus much I thought good to speake at this presente But I thinke you do still persist in your former opinion Hea. No trulye for by these two dayes reasoninges I hope that I am eased of those two thinges which I did chiefelye of all other feare Mar. To morowe we wyll measure our talke by the clock But I thinke that you can not be at leasure Hea. Yes trulye euen before diner this selfe same time Mar. So we wil do satisfy as I trust your earnest desyre Finis THE THYRD BOOKE contayning the third Question disputed by Marke Tully Cicero in his thyrd daies reasoning in his manour of Tusculanum treatinge howe a wise man ought to behaue him selfe in sorowe and griefe of mynde WHat might I thinke the cause to be deare frende Brutus that whereas we consiste both of soule and bodye there is an arte inuented for the preseruation and health of the bodye and it also so muche esteemed that the inuention thereof ▪ is fathered on the immortall goddes But the cure of the soule was neyther so much desyred afore it was founde nor greatly frequēted after it was knowē neyther scarse wel accepted nor alowed of some men but rather suspected and hated of the moste maye this be the cause for that the griefe and disease of the bodye we may iudge by our mind but the gryefe of oure minde we can not discerne by our body and so it hapneth that oure minde then iudgeth of it selfe when y e ▪ wherewyth it iudgeth is sicke For trulye if nature had made vs suche at the fyrste that we mighte playn●ly behold and perceyue her force and vnder her most sure guide and conduite passe the course of oure life then needed we not to requyre the helpe eyther of reasō or learning But she hath geuen vs onelye certayne small spar●les which with noughtye fashions ● erronious opinions we doe lyghtelye quenche in such wise that not so much as any glymse of the lyghte of nature can appeare For ther are sowen within vs the seedes of vertue whyche i● they might encrease and growe to ripenes would of theyr owne nature with out any other aide bring vs to the blessed immortall life but nowe as soone as we are borne brought foorth into this light we are forthwith continuallye trayned in al noughtinesse and peruerse opinions so that it maye well be sayd that euen with the milke of oure nurses we do sucke errour And when from theym we are committed to oure second parētes our maisters I meane we are then seasone● wyth so manye lyes that truth yeldeth to vanitie and the enstructiōs of nature to y ● strength of false opinions Hereunto also are poetes adioyned who for y ● they haue an outward shewe of learning wisedome are heard read learned and so are fullye fastened in our mindes But when to this same we ioyne the people also as a wise teacher and the commē voice of the multitude the confirmer of al vice then are we altogither infected with erronious opinions swar●● wholy frō the rule of nature So y ● those whych teache vs that nothing is more necessary more to be desired or coueted then honour empire the praise of the cōmon people seeme in teaching vs so cōtrary doctrines to y e enstructiōs of nature to haue enuied vs y e fruictō of those most excellente principles whyche she at the fyrst had engraffed in vs. Al men neuerthelesse do greedelye desyre the prayse of the commen sorte and suinge therein after true and vnfayned honesty which onely nature in al her workes doth propose as an ende are foulye deluded and mocked For they do not obtayne any perfect picture of vertue but y e shaded image of glorye For true glorye is a sounde and perfect thynge and no coloured shadowe And that is the incorrupted and vniuersall prayse of al good men proceeding of the right report of the excellencie of vertue Whyche trulye is in maner the eccho of vertue For