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A20661 A proufe of certeyne articles in religion, denied by M. Iuell sett furth in defence of the Catholyke beleef therein, by Thomas Dorman, Bachiler of Diuinitie. VVhereunto is added in the end, a conclusion, conteinyng .xij. causes, vvhereby the author acknovvlegeth hym self to haue byn stayd in hys olde Catholyke fayth that he vvas baptized in, vvysshyng the same to be made common to many for the lyke stay in these perilouse tymes. Dorman, Thomas, d. 1577? 1564 (1564) STC 7062; ESTC S110087 184,006 300

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But if he wer not a priest what was he then Could he be greater The psalme vttreth that he was a priest Moyses and Aaron emongest his priestes They wer therefore both our Lordes priestes Here I beseche yow good readers behold the false and vneuen dealing of an heretike the author of the harborough of whom a little before I made mention He minding to elude this manifest exposition of S. Austen answereth in this manner that S. Austen was ignorant in the Hebrue tongue whereby being easely deceauid and wrapped in thiese two places of scripture wherein there seemed contradiction he leaueth them at a iarre as he found them the one to saie he was a priest thother to saie that he was none Which manner of interpretation and reconciling of scriptures how it is to be liked he leaueth he saieth to the learned reader to iudge For answer to this mere cauillation of this vaine iangler before I procede any farder because he shall not abuse S. Austens ignorance in the Hebrue tongue to the deceauing of yow good readers yow shall vnderstand that S. Hierō was not ignorant therin and yeat doeth he so expounde the place The .70 interpretours chosen and picked as it wer out of the best learned and cūning est in that tongue by all likelihood that could be found Sanctes Pagninus and Sebastianus Munster yea that most learned Rabbine Abrahamus Esdras ● Iewe born wer not ignorant but pearlesse Paragōs therein and yeat doe all thiese expound the Hebrue word to signifie priestes as Sainct Austen doeth And where he saieth that S. Austē being thus wrapped in thiese two contrarie textes was driuen to leaue them as he found thē the one to saie he was a priest thother that he was none in th'one he hath belied● the holie scriptures in thother he hath sclaundred that holie and learned bishop For where or what scripture saieth that Moyses was no priest as he saieth that one texte saide he was an other that he was none Let him show somme such scripture or elles hath he lied apon the scripture He may show I confesse where the scripture as there apon S. Austen made his obiection speaking of him calleth him not by the name of a priest which in many other places it doeth also of Aaron Is this therefore a good reason to saie The scripture in that place made no mention that he was a priest therefore it saied that he was none Yea truelie euen as good as is this The scripture maketh no mention that th'apostles wer euer baptized therefore it saieth that theie neuer wer baptized Or doe thiese textes make anie iarre the one affirming the other denieng to saie Aaron the priest in one place and Moyses and Aaron his priestes in an other But as this is a lewd lye so to goe about to note S. Austē to the world of such ignorance in the scriptures as though he had not byn able to vndoe this simple knot a knot if it be but was forced to leaue the two places at a iarre vnreconciled I can call it no better but euen by the name of wilfull malice As appeareth by that that guilefully in alleaging after their māner without cotatiō the easelier thereby to deceaue the reader this place of S. Austen he left out thiese later wordes Ergo erant illi domini sacerdotes therefore they wer Moyses and Aaron our lordes priestes Now here note I beseche yow diligently that ar of the learned sorte thiese wordes of S. Austen which import in them thus much It maie seeme saieth he to some man that Moyses because the scripture nameth there onelie Aaron by the name of a priest and not him wer no priest but of them that so gather I would know if he wer no priest what he was then whether they can make him King Emperour or any thing that should be greater And although the scripture in that place doe not call him by the name of his office yet neither doeth it therefore deny him to be a priest nor we ar destitute of other places to proue the same by as namelie this psalme wherein expresselie he is so called Wherefore seing neither that place or any other doe saie that he was not a priest and there is plaine scripture that doeth call him one I maie boldelie conclude Erant ergo illi sacerdotes domini Therefore they wer bothe our lordes priestes This is no dout the true sense of S. Austēs wordes wherebie yow maie see how greate the difficulties wer in which he was wrapped and how he woūd him selfe out But then saieth this stout champion there wer two high priestes at once which could not be by the lawe and also Moyses must nedes be inferior to Aaron because Aaron and not he is there called the high prieste This obiection hath in dede a showe of somewhat although in their manner of gouernemēt to haue manie heades wer no greate absurditie at all But to this obiection answereth most fully S. Austen him self in an other place after this sorte Cùm ergo videatur c. Seing therefore that the highe priestehood seemeth to haue begonne in Aaron what thincke we that Moyses was If he wer not a priest how did he thē all those thinges which he did If he wer howe say we that the high priestehood began in his brother Aaron Although the Psalme also where it is saide Moyses an● Aaron emongest his priestes doeth remoue all cause of ●oubte affirming that Moyses was also a priest Wer they therefore Moyses and Aaron bothe chief priestes or rather Moyses the chief and Aaron vnder him yea Aaron also the chiefest in respect of the bishoppes apparell and Moyses the chief in re●pect of a more excellent ministery For ●t the beginning wa● it said to Moyses of Aaron He shall be thy director in those thinge● that ar to be handled with the people and thow his in such busines as is to be done with god Hetherto S. Austen by whome we learne that it is no absurditie that two should be chief in two seuerall respectes the one in ouerseing and prescribing what shalbe doē th'other in practising and putting in execution the thinges prescribed the one absolutely without relation the other in a respect by a comparison As in the newe lawe a figure whereof diuerse well learned mē haue expounded this priestehood of Moyses and Aaron to be Christ we see is of his churche onely simply and absolutely the head Peter and after him his successors no otherwise but in comparison of other inferiour membres Moyses as he was with god more familier thē anie other as he receiued immediatly without the help of anie other instrument to conuey it by vnto him from the mouthe of almightie god his holie will and pleasure he was there is no doute thereof the high and chiefest priest Aaron also as he was by almightie god chosen to publish to the people those thinges which Moyses had giuen him in charge as he offred the
apon D. Coles wor des in the margēt of your boke that no B. of Rome before S. Gregories time would euer be called vniuersall bi●shop finallie then would yowe not so ignorantlie haue confounded together these termes vniuersall bishop and heade of the churche as though theie had in that place signified all one thing The which that theie doe not no mā doeth more plainelie expresse then S. Gregorie him selfe who writeth of S. Peter after this māner The charge saith he and supremacie of all the whole churche was committed to him and yeat was he not called vniuersall apostle Lo M. I●ell if you had taken the paines to haue scanned the place of S. Gregorie alleaged by yow by this and such other would yow euer haue brought in to the lighte this deade mouse this false argument and vntrue consequent There was neuer anie B. of Rome called or that would be called by the name of vniuersall bishop therefore ▪ theie be not or ought not to be heades of the churche Seing that S. Peter as saithe S. Gregorie had the charge of the whole churche although he wer neuer called by the name of vniuersall apostle If S. Peter might be heade of the churche and without anie absurditie haue the charge thereof as S. Gregorie thought although he wer not called vniuersall apostle whie should yow thicke it now anie more impossible for the pope to be called head of the churche although he be not called vniuersall bishoppe And so haue yowe by the waie an answer to your wise demaunde also that is if no B. of Rome would euer take apon him to be called th'vniuersall bishoppe or heade of the whole churche for the space of six hundred yeares after Christe where then was the heade of the vniuersall churche all that while or howe it coulde then continue without a heade more thē nowe For we saie vnto yow that that is moste false and vntrue which yowe lay for a grounded truthe that is that no B. of Rome woulde euer be called by the name of heade of the churche within the first six hundred yeares after Christe as hath bene sufficientlie proued before and that also as we haue declared yowe abuse your selfe in the framing of your saide questiō in taking for all one the heade of the churche and the vniuersall bishoppe And thus haue yow one cause whie this place of S. Gregorie maketh nothing ageinst the supremacie of the B. of Rome And other cause is for that that Iohn the B. of Constantinople by this name or title of vniuersall bishoppe vnderstoode him selfe onelie to be a bishoppe and none elles Which meaning neither in the first six hundred yeares nor at anie time sence anie B. of Rome that I could yeat heare of euer had And that this is the true meaning of S. Gregorie and not forced by me the verie wordes of the same man written to Iohn archebishop of Constantinople doe well witnesse with me Qui enim indignum te esse fatebaris vt episcopus dici debuisses ad hoc quandoque perductus● es ▪ vt despectis fratribus episcopus appetas solus vocari that is to saie for thow Iohn B. of Constantinople which once grauntedst thy selfe to be vnworthie the name of a bishoppe art nowe at the length comme to that passe that thowe labourest to be called a bishop alone And a little after Thow goest about saieth he to take awaie that honour from all other which by singularitie thow desirest vnlaufullie to vsurpe to thy selfe Thus maie yowe see M. Iuell howe this place being by th'author him selfe expounded fardereth yow nothing at all and also by suche auctorities and reasons as haue for our par●e bene before alleaged vnderstand howe vnaduisedlie it was saide of yowe that the catholikes as sure as god is god if theie would haue vouchesaufed to folowe either the scriptures either the aunciēt Doctours and coūcels would neuer haue restored again the supremacie of the B. of Rome after it was once abolished Doe yow not hereby giue occasiō to mē to thinke that your lacke of faithe and mistrust in goddes omnipotency in other thinges groweth euen thereof that yow thincke god is not god For towching the supremacie hauing in the scriptures nothing in the councels as little in the fathers writinges onelie thiese fewe wordes that might se me to impugne the same and yet doe not howe will yow be able to discharge so manie auctorities of the fathers such consent of councels such conformitie of examples and force of reasons as haue bene and maie be brought ageinst yow howe will you satisfie your owne conscience which telleth yowe that so manie ceremonies so manie ordonances so manie decrees of bishoppes of Rome as Thomas Beacon otherwise called Theodore Basile or by what name so euer he be elles termed hath heaped together deliuered by them to the worlde some of them as emongest a nombre that which of all other yowe make lest account of holie water within little more then a hundred yeares after Christe and the most parte in the pure state of the primitiue churche would neuer haue bene by such common and generall confent without contradiction of anie receiued by the whole worlde vsed and frequented in all the churches scattred and dispersed thorough out the same onlesse the authors thereof had had vniuersall auctoritie to establishe that which hath bene vniuersallie receiued Thus hauing hetherto touching the supremacie saide so much as maie presently serue for your chalenge leauing the rest for a whole booke either by me when god shall sende better laisure or some other better able when he shall thincke best to be thereof made I shall nowe passe to the nexte article in question THAT THE PEOPLE VVAS TAVGHT VVITHIN THE FIRST SIX HVNDRED YEARES AFTER CHRISTE TO BELEVE that in the Sacrament of the altar for so dothe S. Austen terme it is conteined Christes bodie reallie substantiallie corporalie and carnallie TErtullian an auncient writer of Christes churche reporteth of heresie that the nature thereof is either when it is pressed with the auctoritie of scripture to denie it platlie to be scripture or if she receiue it with additions and detractions to the framing of her purpose to peruert it or finally with false gloses and vntrue expositions in such sorte to water it that it maie seme to haue a far other sense then had euer the holie ghost the author thereof This lesson and manner of olde heretikes was neuer I trowe more diligently put in execution or earnestlie practised thē in this our most miserable and wretched time nor in anie controuersie more perspicuouse and easie euen at the eye to be perceiued then in this of the moste blessed sacrament of Christes owne bodie and bloude For when our aduersaries demaunde of vs scripture for the confirmation of our parte and we bring them the wordes not of Peter not of Paule not of anie of thother apostles but of Christe him selfe that