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ID	Title	Author	Corrected Date of Publication (TCP Date of Publication)	STC	Words	Pages
A12940	A counterblast to M. Hornes vayne blaste against M. Fekenham Wherein is set forthe: a ful reply to M. Hornes Answer, and to euery part therof made, against the declaration of my L. Abbat of Westminster, M. Fekenham, touching, the Othe of the Supremacy. By perusing vvhereof shall appeare, besides the holy Scriptures, as it vvere a chronicle of the continual practise of Christes Churche in al ages and countries, fro[m] the time of Constantin the Great, vntil our daies: prouing the popes and bishops supremacy in ecclesiastical causes: and disprouing the princes supremacy in the same causes. By Thomas Stapleton student in diuinitie.	Stapleton, Thomas, 1535-1598.; Horne, Robert, 1519?-1580. Answeare made by Rob. Bishoppe of Wynchester, to a booke entituled, The declaration of suche scruples, and staies of conscience, touchinge the Othe of the Supremacy, as M. John Fekenham, by wrytinge did deliver unto the L. Bishop of Winchester.; Harpsfield, Nicholas, 1519-1575.	1567 (1567)	STC 23231; ESTC S117788	838,389	1,136

of the lay the bishops and the whole Conuocation withstanding that gifte with al their power I beleue it would trouble him or any wise man els to geue any good reason therefore the obediēce of a Christē mā to the Catholike Church which al Christians in their Crede doe professe presupposed If I should farder aske M. Horn again how he cā goe for a bishop and write him selfe as he dothe in his booke the B. of Winchester being called to that functiō only by the letters patents of the Prince without due Cōsecration or imposition of handes by any Bishop or bisshops liuing which impositiō of hādes S. Paule euidētly practised vpō Timothe ād the vniuersal Church hath alwaies vsed as the only ād proper meanes to order a bishop of the Churche I am wel assured neither he nor al his fellowes being all vnordered prelats shall euer be able to make any sufficient or reasonable answer answering as Christiā Catholike mē whereby it may appeare that they may goe for right bishops of Christes Church but that thei must remain as they were before or mere lay men or simple priestes Last of al take you yourself in dede M. Horn for a bishop If so thē may you preache the word minister the sacramēts bind ād lose vpō the cōmissiō geuē you by God in holy scripture without any furder cōmissiō of the prince If you may so do thē put the case the Q. Mai. that now is or any other king or Queene of England hereafter should forbid you to preach the word to minister the sacraments or to execute any other part of the bishoply functiō ▪ and by cōmmissiō appoint some other to that functiō Wil you obey or wil you not If yea thē do you forsake your duty and charge cōmitted vnto you by God If not thē by vertue of this Act you incurre the penalty therof To this questiō answer M. Horn if you be able and make if you cā Christs cōmissiō the holy Scriptures and this Act to agree both together that the keping of the one import not the breach of thother But this shal you neuer be able to do while you liue stāding to that which in this your booke you haue cōfessed Thus you see euery way how in your own sayings you are intrapped ouertakē and cōfounded And so must it nedes fal out with euery mā that with any truth or ꝓbability laboreth to maintain an vntruth or absurdity As for your forged and presūptuous limitatiō vpō the words of th' Act and abridgīg of the Q. Ma. autoriti therin expressed I leaue that mater furder to be cōsidered by the graue wisdom of the most Honorables Here remain yet some vntruthes by you auouched that would be cōfuted which because the answer alredy waxeth prolixe and long I wil but touch The holy Gospel saith whose syns ye retain shal be retained whose syns ye lose in earth their syns shal be loosed in heauē Cōtrary to the plaine words of the gospel you wil haue no actual bindīg or losing by the priest in dede but a declaratiō ād an assurāce that they are losed or boūd cōtrary I say not only to the words of the gospel but also to the doctrin ād practise of the vniuersal Church wher the priest hath euer said to the penitēt Ego absoluote c. I absolue thee ād saieth not I declare and assure thee that thou art absolued This is a plaine heresy not much vnlike to the Nouatiās whō S. Ambrose cōfuteth sauing that their heresy is not so large as is yours For they but in certain crimes denied power of losing in the church referring that power in such cases ōly to God You deny to be in the church any power at al either of binding or of losing referring al the power to God only ād not cōsidering how God is to be praised qui talē potestatē dedit hoīb Who gaue such power to men Which the cōmon Iewes had yet the grace to cōsider in the high Bishop ād chief priest Christ Iesus our Sauiour An other of your hereticall vntruthes in this place also is that you denie the sacramente of confirmation and that the holie ghoste is not geuen by the imposition of the Bisshoppes hands We reade in S Luke that Christe at his ascension promised the holy ghost to them which was performed vppon whitsonday And what was that but their confirmation̄ We reade that S. Paule after he had baptized certain parsons in the which baptisme no doubte they receiued the holy ghoste he put his handes vppon them and they thereby receiued the holy ghoste And this was their confirmation The like is writen in the place here by M. Fekenham alleaged of the Apostles Peter and Iohn that put theire handes vppon those that before were baptized by Philip the Deacon and they thervppon receiued the holy ghoste The which did in the primitiue Churche worke in the Christians with inuisible grace and visible miracles at the time of their confirmatiō as yt now worketh by inuisible grace onely with a strengthening and confirming of the ghostly and spiritual giftes before receiued wherof the Sacrament hath his name And therfore the Bishoppes cōmission for geuing by the imposition of theire handes the holy ghoste may be iustified aswell by the former authorities of scripture as by the authority practise and doctrine of the Churche that belieueth that the holy ghoste is geuē for the encrease of al spiritual strength in confirmation The .164 Diuision pag. 109. a. M. Fekenham Wherevnto I do adioyne this obiectiō following First for the time of the old lawe whiche as Paule saide was a very figure of the new Moses Aaron Eleazarus being Priests they had by the very expresse worde of God this iurisdiction ouer the people of God as to sit in iudgement vpon them and that not only in Ecclesiasticall but also in Politike and ciuill matters and causes they did visite them they did refourme them they did order correct ād punish them so oft as cause required and without al commission of any ciuill Magistrate Gouernour Kinge or Prince Besides that for the whole time of the olde Lawe there was an expresse Law made where by all Ciuill Magistrats and Iudges were cōmaunded in al doubtfull matters to repaire to the Bisshops and Priests and to staie vppon their determinations and iudgemēts without declining on the righte hande or the lefte And if that any mā should disobey the determinatiō once geuen of the Priest Morietur homo ille like as it appeareth Deut. 17. M. Horne This adiūct vvil not serue your turn for it is not possible to stretch it vvithout bursting to ioyn with that you must conclude You begin to ioyne your vvorke together vvith a saying of S. Paule vvhich he .587 neuer said you should haue noted the place vvhere S. Paul saith that the old Lavv vvas a very figure of the nevv There is no such

to the vnitie of the Churche and to represse their heresies vvith their authoritie and godlie lavves made for that purpose to vvhome it belonged of duetie and vvhose especial seruice to Christ is to see care and prouide that their subiectes be gouerned defended and mainteined in the true and sincere religion of Christ vvithout al errours superstitions and heresies as S. Augustine proueth at large in his Epistle against Vincentius a Rogatist in his Epistle to Bonifacius and in his booke against Petilian and Gaudentius letters Against this Catholique Doctrine your auncestours the Donatistes arise vp and defend them selues vvith this colour or pretence that they be of the Catholique faith and that their church is the Catholique church VVhich shift for their defence against Gods truth the Popish sectaries doe vse in this our time being .51 no more of the one or of the other then vvere the Donatists and such like of vvhom they learned to couer their horrible heresies vnder the same faire cloke that the secular Princes haue not to meddle in matters of religion or causes Ecclesiastiall That God committed not the teaching of his people to Kings but to Prophetes Christ sent not souldiours but fishers to bring in and further his religion that there is no example of such order found in the Gospell or nevv Testament vvherby it may appeare that to secular Princes it belongeth to haue care in matters of religion And that as it semeth by that S Augustine by preuention obiecteth against them they subtilly refused all proufes or examples auouched out of the Olde testamente as ye craftely doe also in binding me onelie to the Nevv testament vvhich S. Augustine calleth an odious and vvicked guile of the Donatists Let your friends novv vvhome ye vvill seeme to please so much vvhen you beguile them most of all vveigh vvith aduisement vvhat vvas the erronious opinion touching the authoritie of Princes in causes Ecclesiastical of the Donatists as it is here rightly gathered foorth of S. Augustine and let them consider vvisely these foule shiftes they make for their defence And then compare your opinion and guilefull defences thereof to theirs and they must needs clappe you on the backe and saye to you Patrisas if there be any vpright right iudgement in them deming you so like your graundsier Donatus as though he had spitte you out of his ovvne mouth The .16 Chapter declaring in howe many pointes Protestants are Donatists and by the way of M. Foxes Martyrs Stapleton HITHERTO good Reader M. Horne although vntruely yet hath he somwhat orderlike proceeded But in that which followeth vntill we come to the .20 leafe beside moste impudent and shamelesse lyes wherwith he would deface M. Fekenham he prosequuteth his matter so confusely and vnorderly leaping in and out I can not tel howe nor whither that I verely thinke that his wits were not his owne being perchance encombred with some his domestical affaires at home that he could not gather them together or that he the lesse passed what an hodge potche he made of his doings thinking which is like that his fellowes Protestantes woulde take all things in good gree knowing that poore M. Fekenham was shut vp close inough from al answering And thinking that no Catholique els woulde take vppon him to answere to his lewde booke I had thought M. Horne that from the olde Testament ye woulde haue gone to the newe Testament and woulde haue laboured to haue established your matters therby Belike the world goeth very hard with you in that behalfe that ye doe not so sauing that here and there ye iumble in a testimonie or two I can not tell how but howe vnhandsomly and from the purpose yea against your owne selfe that I wot well and ye shall anon heare of it also In the meane while it is worth the labour well to consider the excellent pregnant witte and greate skill of this man who hath in the former Treatise of M. Fekenham espied out which surely the wisest and best learned of all the worlde I trowe beside M. Horne would neuer haue espied such a special grace the man hath geuen him of his maister the Deuill of mere malice ioyned with like follie that M. Fekenham is an Heretike and a Donatist But yet M. Fekenham is somewhat beholding to him that he saith M. Fekenham hath bewrayed his secrete heresies Wherein he saith for the one part most truely For if there be any heresie at all in this matter surmised vppon him as certainly there is none it is so secrete and priuie that Argus himselfe with al his eyes shall neuer espye it no nor M. Horne him selfe let him prie neuer so narrowly whereas on the other side M. Horn and his fellowes and his Maisters Luthers and Caluins heresies are no secrete nor simple heresies but so manifolde and so open that they haue no waye or shift to saue their good name and honestie blotted and blemished for euer without repentance for the obstinate maintenance of the same Where of many were many hūdred yeares since condemned partly by the holy Fathers partly by General Councels You say M. Fekenham hath secrete heresies and that Donatus is his great grandsi● and the Donatists the Catholikes auncetours but how truly you shal vnderstād anon In the meane while good Syr may it please you fauourably to heare you and your maisters honorable pedegre and of their worthy feares and prowes You haue heard of them before perhaps and that by mee But suche things as may edifie the Catholike ād can neuer be answered by the Heretike Decies repetita placebunt Howe say you then to the great heretik Aerius the Arrian that said there was no difference betwene priest and Bisshop betwene him that fasted and that did not faste and that the sacrifice for the deade was fruitlesse How say you to Iouinian that denied virginity to haue any excellencye aboue matrimony or any special rewarde at Gods handes To the Arrians that denied the miracles done at the saintes tōbes to be true miracles and that the martyrs cā not caste out the diuels and relieue thē that be possessed To the Bogomyles that said the deuils sate at the saints tōbes and did wonders there to illude and deceiue the people to cause the people to worship them To Berengarius condemned in diuers councels first for denying of the real presence in the sacrament of the aulter and then for denying the transubstantiatiō To the Paulicians that saied these wordes of Christe Take eate this is my body are not to be vnderstanded of his bodye or the breade and wine vsed at the celebration of our Lordes maundy but of the holy scriptures which the Priests should take at Christes hand and deliuer and distribute to the people To Claudius and Vigilantius that denied the inuocation of Saintes and inueyed against the blessed reliques and the vse of Lights and other ceremonies in the Church To the Massalians and other heretiks

This to be so the Authoritie of Canons doth witnesse This the ecclesiastical history proueth This the holie Fathers confirme Lo you see M. Horne what the iudgement of Isidorus was aboue .900 yeres past howe iumpe it agreeth with the assertion of Catholiques now and how directly it ouerthroweth yours This therfore being so sure a Principle on our parte and so clerelie proued bethinke your selfe now M. Horne how your new Primacie wil be proued by this allegation Touching that you saie This Clergie in King Henries daies was not only of Diuines but also of the wisest most expert and best learned in the Ciuil and Canon Lawes that was or hath ben sence as D. Tonstal D. Stokesley D. Gardiner D. Thirlbie and D. Bonner by the euident falsehood whiche you practise in alleaging these witnesses a man may iudge with what fidelitie you haue handled the rest throughout your whole booke Who is ignoraunte that not one of these Reuerent Fathers did sincerely thinke that to be true which you here impute vnto them For whereas all vpright iudgement shoulde come of a mans owne free choise not stained or spotted either with the hope of priuate lucre and honoure or with the feare of great losse the one of those two things which of all other most forceably carieth men away from professing their owne conscience did stoppe those men from saying and vttering that which otherwise they would most gladly haue vttered sithens as they were put in hope of al promotion if they agreed with the Kings will of which they made I iudge the lesse accompte so disagreeing from the same they were certaine to loose bothe goods and life and also their good name in the shew of the worlde as who shoulde haue bene put to deathe by the name of Traitours whiche is the thing that all true subiectes doe chieflie abhorre Yet you knowe in suche sorte suffered a great many notable both for learning and vertue as D. Fisher Bishoppe of Rochester Syr Thomas More a great number of the Carthusians beside diuerse other of all estates You knowe also the matter then was not so sifted and tryed by learning as it hath bene since And we know they were the secrete snakes of your adders broode that induced the King to that minde not any of the Doctours here by you named who all againste their willes condescended therevnto Howe then are they broughte foorthe for witnesses of your heresies who for feare of deathe saied as you doe and that no longer then the foresaid impedimente laie in theyr waye For when the state of the worlde was otherwise that without feare of deathe they might vtter their minde freely who knoweth not that all they who liued to see those daies of freedome in all theire woordes and deedes protested that the Pope and not the King was head of the Churche vnder Christ Neuer hearde you M. Horne that when your owne brethren being arryued before D. Gardiner the Bishope of Winchester and then Chauncelour of England had saied they lerned theyr disobedience vnto the Pope out of his booke De vera obedientia c. then he aunswered that if they had bene good Scholers they would haue folowed theyr Maister in his beste and not in his worste doeinges Againe if they had erred through his Authority whē he was not so wel learned and grounded they should much more repēt and recāt through his Authority being nowe better lerned through longer studie and better grounded through longer experience And this Doctour Gardiner when he was moste of your side in this one matter yet he was so suspected of the Kinge for secrete conference with the Pope by letters to be sent by a straunger in the tyme of his embassye on this side of the Seas that as Master Foxe reporteth for this verie cause Kinge Henrie in all Generall Pardons graunted after that tyme dyd euermore excepte all treasons committed beyonde the Seas whiche was meant for the Bishoppes cause This ys that Doctour Gardiner who at Paules Crosse in a moste Honorable and full Audience witnessed not onely his owne repentaunce for his former naughty doings but also that King Henry sought diuerse tymes to haue reconciled hym selfe againe to the See of Rome as who knewe that he had vnlawfully departed from the vnytie thereof and had made hym selfe the Supreme Heade of the Churche of Englande altogether vniustly This is that Doctour Gardiner ▪ who lying in his deathebedde caused the Passion of Christe to be readen vnto hym and when he hearde it readen that Peter after the denying of his Maister went out and wepte bitterlie he causyng the Reader to staye wept him selfe full bitterlie and saied Ego exiui sed non dum fleui amarè I haue gone out but as yet I haue not wepte bytterlie And is nowe Doctour Gardiner a fitte witnesse for your secular Supremacy M. Horne Marcellinus the Pope being afearde of deathe dyd sacrifice vnto Idolles And the same Marcellinus repenting his vniuste feare dyd afterwarde sacrifice his owne bodie and soule for the loue of Christe suffring Martyrdome for his sake Will you nowe proue Idolles to be better then Christe by the facte of Marcellinus Or shall not the last iudgemente stande rather then the first What meane you then to alleage the iudgementes of Doctour Gardiner Doctour Thirlbey Doctour Tonstall and Doctour Bonner sith you knowe that all those chaunged their mindes vppon better aduise Or whie died Doctour Tonstalle in prisonne Or why lye the other learned godly Bisshops yet in prisonne if they are of your minde But if you knowe that they dissente vtterly from you and yet doe pretende to bring their Authoritie for you this fact declareth that you are not only a fond wrangler but also a wicked falsarie and that you knowe as well Saint Augustine whome you alleaged before so largelye and all the Councels and princes with al other Authours by you producted are none otherwise of your minde then are Doctour Thirlebie and Doctour Bonner whome you so impudentlie make to speake as Proctours in your cause albeit they are readie to shedde their bloude against this your opinion Once in maner the whole clergy of the Realme sinned most greuously by preferring the secular and earthly kingdome before the Magistrates of the heauēly kingdome But that sinne of theirs al those now abhor and haue before abhorred to whō God gaue grace to see the filthines and the absurdty thereof And surelye vntil the rest bothe of the clergy and of the layety do hartely repēt for that most filthy and absurd dede wherein they withdrewe the Supremacy from S. Peters successours and gaue it to the successours of Iulius Caesar vntill I say they repent for it and refourme that minde of theirs as much as lyeth in thē they cā neuer be made partakers of the kingedome of heauen But only they shal inherit the kingdome of the earth in whose Supremacy they put their cōfidence You Mayster Horn haue in dede great

Prince is the fountaine or welspring of all iurisdictiō and protesteth also him selfe to be of the .482 same mind The .39 Chapter Solutions to Argumentes taken out of Quintinus Heduus a Doctour of Parys Stapleton LET vs nowe take heede for M. Horne wonderfully lassheth on with Io. Quintinus Heduus and runneth his race with him two full leaues together And yet for all this sturre and heapinge Lawe vppon Lawe we might graunt him all that euer he bringeth yn without any preiudice of our cause and would so do in dede sauing that the handling of the matter by M. Horne is such as requireth of vs a special specification Neither can I tell of all the dishonest and shamefull pageantes that he hath hitherto played whether there be any comparable to this I can not tell whether his folly or his impudency be the greater but that bothe excede I am right well assured And yet I trowe he owght not to beare all the blame but may parte stake with his collectour who hath abused his ignorance as hym selfe doth abuse his readers ignorance The answere would growe longe and bigge yf I should fully as the case requireth rippe vp and open all thinges and then at large confute them which at this tyme I intende not but in vsinge as muche breuity as I may to lay before thee good reader and to discipher the fashion and maner of his dealinge Wherein euen as Medea fleinge from her naturall father and runninge away with a straunger with whome she fell in loue her father pursuing her and she fearing to be taken slewe her yong brother scattering his limmes in the way therby to stay what with sorowe and what with long seeking for his sonnes body her fathers iourney euen so M. Horne running away from the catholyke Church his mother with dame heresie with whose filthy loue he is rauisshed to stay the reader that woulde trace him and his heresyes for the authours he alleageth doth so miserably teare them in peces and dismember them that yt would pity any good Christian mans harte to see yt as muche as yt pitied kinge Oëta father to Medea to see that miserable and lamentable sight and very busie will yt be for him to finde out the whole corps of the sentences so wretchedly cutte and hewed by M. Horne and here and there in these two leaues so miserably dispersed We will notwithstanding trace hī as we may Thē the better to vnderstād his first allegatiō ye shal vnderstād that ther is a kind of Iurisdictiō which is called of the Ciuiliās merū imperiū that is power of lyfe ād death which whether it resteth in the prīce only or in other inferiour magistrates the Lawyers do not al agree Lotharius setled al in the prince to that opinion Quintinus also inclineth But then maketh Quintinus an obiection Whie sayeth he Howe is yt true that the prince onelye hath this mere empire or iurisdiction seinge that we affirme the Churche to haue yt also Whereunto he answereth that vnder the name of Princes are cōteyned the highe Priestes from the which our Actes of parliament doe not all disagree calling Bisshoppes the Peeres of the realme When we say saieth he with Lotharius that the Kinge is the fountayne of all iurisdiction we meane as Lotharius doth not of the Churche but of the ciuill magistrates vnder the Kinge The said Quintinus saieth Gladium pontifex vtrūque gestat exercet alterum Rex solus quem pontifex etiam desertus a suis in hostes licitè stringit The Pope hath both the swordes that is both temporall and spiritual iurisdiction yet the King alone vseth the one of thē that is the tēporal the which the Pope may notwithstāding yf he be forsakē of his own vse also But as I was about to tel you out of Quītinus he saith Probauimus Ecclesiam Deo militantem se noluisse temerè negotijs secularibus implicare temporalemque iurisdictionem principibus sponte reliquisse tamque libenter tamque animo prompto facili vt regū propria videatur Id circo scriptum est à Speculatore quòd quicquid est in regno id esse intelligitur de iurisdictione regis We haue proued that the militant Church doth not but vpō good cause intermedle with seculer affaires yea rather geueth ouer to Princes the temporall iurisdiction so gladly and so willinglye that yt seemeth to appertayne to the Princes onely And therefore Speculatour writeth that what so euer is in a Kingdome that is vnderstanded to be of the Kinges iurisdiction And for this some were persuaded that the spirituall and temporall iurisdiction stode so contrarie one to the other that one man might not exercise both But Quintinus hīself misliketh this opinion and saith euen in the said place where he speaketh of Speculator that the Church only ād not the Princes seculer hath both swordes and both iurisdictions And vpon this occasion he doth vehemently inueighe against Petrus de Cugnerio of whome we haue spokē that did so stifflye stand against the Frēch clergy for their tēporall iurisdictiō and prouoked the King Philip Valesius as much as in him laye to plucke it away frō the clergie He calleth him a misshapen parson in body a most wicked mā and to say al in one a very knaue And thoughe his name were then terrible and thowgh he would seeme for his great wisedome to carrie al the realme vpō his shulders yet was he euer after but a lawghing stock to mē and because he durst not for shame after this great challēge shew hīself abrode as he was wont to do for M. Peter de Cugnerio he was called in their tong M. Pierre de Coyner as a mā would say M Peter that lurketh in corners But wil ye now heare M. Horne this your own authour Quin●inus how he expoūdeth cōposuit rē sacerdotum that is how the King set in order the matters of the priests Wil ye heare also what sharpe Law he made against thē as you auouch that he did He saith of the king Pronūciauit Ecclesiā feuda ●ēporalia quaeque bona propria sibi possidere posse atque in illa iurisdictionē habere He gaue sentēce and pronoūced that the Church might possesse fealtes and other temporal things ād haue iurisdictiō therein So much for our first entraūce into Quītinus Wherin beside the shame that ye must take for your worshipful glose vpō cōposuit rē sacerdotū first ye see that he improueth Ferrariēsis ād such like as attribute to the Emperour the spiritual and temporal sworde Then that he is of a quyte contrarie mynde to that that ye woulde by a sentence here and there yll fauouredlie and disorderly patched in enforce vpon as thowgh he should thinke that al iurisdictiō should come of the Prince Thirdly it is vntrue that he auoucheth Speculatours saying He auoucheth as ye haue hearde the contrary Fowrthly it is

so haue you for all this ioly fetche fetched in nothing to your purpose but haue fished all this while in Braughton all in vayne Yet is there one thing more we loke for that is to haue an honester man and of better and more vppright dealing and conscience then ye are of to reporte Braughton And then we haue some hope that as you can proue nothing by him for your new primacie So shall we proue euen by your owne authour that by the common lawe of the realme the Pope was then the cheif head of all Christes Churche And me thincke thowghe in your texte there is nothing but the duskishe darke hornelight of an vnfaythfull and blinde allegation that yet in your margent there appereth a glistering day starre and that the sonne is at hande to open and disclose to the worlde by the bright beames and most cleare light of the catholyque faythe shyning in youre owne Authoure either your exceding malice or your most palpable grosse and darke ignorance Wherewith for your desertes and spitiful heart to the catholyke faith God hath plagued you no lesse then he did the Aegiptians Why M. Horne Hath Braughtō thē a Title de Papa Archiepiscopis alijs prelatis of the Pope Archbishops and other prelats What Is there nothing in him but a bare and naked title What sayeth Braughton in his text Doth he say that the Pope hath nothing to doe but in his owne diocese and no more than other Bishoppes haue Doth he say that he is not the head and the superiour of al other Bishopes Or doth he say as ye saie that all Ecclesiasticall iurisdiction commeth from the King only Or doth he say that the Kinge is aboue the the Pope and head of the Churche him selfe Wel. Ye haue seene the starre light in the margent Nowe shall ye see also to the vtter destruction of your newe primacie and to your great dishonestie for this your detestable dealing the bright daye light Ye tel vs out of Braughton that al aswel freemen as bondmen are subiecte to the Kinge his power You tel vs the King hath no Peere what of all this Tel me withall for what the title of the Pope and Archebishope serueth Verely it serueth to direct vs to your own confusion and shame Ye tolde vs euen in the other page of this leafe that Kinge Childebertus exacted of Pope Pelagius the confession of his faith whiche he voluntarily offered But suerly the cōfessiō of this matter wil not come frō you freely and voluntarily but it must be exacted from you and brought from you by the verie violence of the moste stronge and forcible truth Let vs then heare Braughtons owne wordes He saieth There is a difference and distinctiō betwen person and person For some there are that be in excellencie and prelacie and be rulers aboue other As in spirituall matters and those that appertaine to priesthood our Lorde the Pope and vnder him Archebishopes and Bishopes and other inferiour Prelates In temporall matters also Emperours Kinges and Princes for suche thinges as apperteine to the kingdom and vnder them Dukes Erles Barons and such other Againe he writeth thus in an other place Sunt enim causae spirituales c. There are saieth he spiritual causes in the which the seculer iugde hath no cognition neither can put them to execution because he hath no punishement for them For in these causes the iudgement apperteyneth to the ecclesiastical iudges who hath the gouernance and defence of priesthoode There be also Secular causes the knowledge and iudgemente whereof apperteyneth to Kinges and Princes who defende the Kingdome and with the whiche the Clergie shoulde not intermedle seeing that the iurisdictions of them are sondred and distincted vnlesse yt be when one sworde muste helpe the other I truste by this Maister Horne ye doe or may vnderstand what is meante when Braughton calleth the Kinge the Vicar of God and saieth there ought to be none greater then the Kinge in his kingdome Whiche rule woulde haue bene playner if ye had added the three woordes following In exhibitione iuris That is in ministring of euerie man ryght and iustice whiche is altogether ministred in mere prophane and ciuill matters vnder and by the Kinges Authoritie and whiche woordes are by you nipped quite of verie ministerlyke We will yet adde the third Authoritie out of Braughton because it doeth not onely make againste this newe vpstarte Supremacie but aunswereth also as well to the olde Cugnerius as to our newe Cugnerius M. Horne his fonde argumentes against the spirituall iurisction Braughton then after that he hath shewed that there is one iurisdiction that is called ordinarie and an other of delegates and holding by commission and that as well in the temporall as spirituall Courte and that these two iurisdictions be distincted and that the Iudges of eche sorte shoulde take heed that they doe not intrude vppon the other he telleth vs of some particularities of matters apperteyning to the Churche Iurisdiction First that none of the clergy may be called before a secular iudge for anie matter towching the ecclesiasticall courte or for any spirituall matter or suche as be annexed and coherent As when penance is to be enioyned for any sinne or trespase wherin the ecclesiastical Iudge hath the cognitiō and not the kinge for it doth not apperteine to the king or to the temporall Iudge to enioyne penaunce Neither can they iudge of matters coherent and annexed to spiritual things as of tithes and suche other as concerning mouables bequethed in a mans testament nor in a cause of matrimony Nor if a mā promise mony for mariage as he saith he hath before declared For in al theis things the clerke may bring the cause frō the tēporal to the ecclesiastical Iudge And so haue we found M. Horne by the common lawe in Braughtons time the Popes supreamacy in Englande and not that onely but also that aswel Braughton as Quintinus be hard against you and your Petrus Cugnerius for the minishing and defacing of the spiritual iurisdiction and for your vntruth in auowching that the medling with contractes of mariages enioyning of penaūce and suche like are nothing but temporal matters perteining to the kinges iurisdiction And thus in fine to be shorte where your proufes should be strongest there are they most acrased and feble ād your fowre lawyers with your Diuine proue nothing to your purpose but al against yt M. Horne The .152 Diuision pag. 90. a. Thus haue I sufficiently .498 proued that the Emperours and Kinges ought haue and may claime and take vpon thē suche gouernement in Spiritual and Ecclesiastical causes and matters as the Queenes Maiestye novv doothe In confirmation vvhereof I haue bene more large than othervvise I vvoulde but that the proufe hereof doeth reproue and fully aunsvveare the principall matter of your vvhole booke and therefore I maie vse more briefnesse in that vvhiche follovveth

and doth extorte our confession in this poynte Whiche reason is that God loueth his Churche aswell as he did the Iewes Synagoge and hath as louingly as plentifully and as effectually prouided for the good gouernement of the same as he dyd for the synagoge And therefore to pacifie Diuisions schismes and heresies he hath prouided vs one spirituall Cowrte to decide and vtterly to determyn al controuersies rising vppon matters of religion as he prouided for the Iewes And so much the more amonge Christians then among the Iewes for that the Christians beinge of so many and diuers nations tongues wyttes manners and fasshions many cōtrouersies for fayth and religion and of more weight and moment will also arise and springe vppe then euer rose amonge the Iewes beinge but one onely Nation Especially the Apostle foretellinge vs that heresies must arise And yf there be not one certayne iudg appoynted to whome all nations must indifferently obeye yt muste neades be that Christendome shall contynewe in a continuall broyle and ruffle of sects and heresies Which also haue in our tyme so terribly and hugely encreased by nothinge more then that we geue no eare to this one iudge and that we do not as our forefathers haue done staye our selues and depende vppon this the highest cowrte of all Christendome Ye see nowe good reader both the figure and the reason of the figure what sayeth nowe M. Horne to it Full pretely I warrante yow and that is that Maister Fekenham doth not aptly conclude that the bisshoppes in the tyme of the Ghospell owght to haue iurisdiction by the expresse woorde of God to kepe cowrts to call Councells to make Lawes to visite and to reforme caet because the highe priest and the temporall iudge did determyne doubtfull cases in the tyme of the olde testament for the priest alone did not determyne all causes as M. Fekenham seameth to alleage the text Here may yow playnelie see that Maister Fekenham can not vse his owne armure but such onely as Maister Horne wil graunt him For neither M. Fekenham speaketh of the temporall iudge nor his texte be it Latin Greke or Hebrewe They all speake of a iudge but nothing is there to signifie this woorde temporall This woorde is shamefully infarsed by Maister Horne to vpholde his temporall supremacye by this place most greauously battered The iudge and the high Priest is al one as doth appere by the letter and by the doing of Kinge Iosaphat which was conformable to the cōmaundement of Moyses where as Amarias is appointed the chief for spiritual matters as Zabadias was for those thinges that perteyned to the Kinges office Which may be wel vnderstanded for the bodilie punishment of those that disobeyed the high priest and to put them to death yf the case required according to the Lawe And in that sense yt may be taken perchaunce for a temporal Iudge This notwithstanding yt agreeth well enowghe with the high priest to For that diuerse tymes aswell before there were any Kings as afterward the high priest had the cheif regiment both temporal and Ecclesiasticall but though he had not euer the temporal yet had he euer the Ecclesiasticall supremacy And therefore it is writen of the Prophete Malachie that the lipps of the priestes shall preserue knowledg and they shall seke the lawe at his mowthe And it is here writen who so euer disobeyeth the priest shal die He saith not who so euer diosobeyeth the temporal Iudge For the high Priest is the Iudge al one person and not two And so S. Cyprian with the other fathers taketh place When I speake of the high priest I exclude not other of the clergy with whome the Pope in all graue and weighty causes vseth to consult and of congruence ought so to do and so it was in the old Law Neither M. Fekenham as ye charge him saith so but layeth forth the text as it is saying that he that disobeyeth the priest shall die for it Nowe the highe priest being this authorised and Moses Aaron and Eleazarus being successiuely the highe priestes it must nedes follow that they had the chiefe superiority for matters ecclesiastical neding no further authority then that they had by the expresse woorde of God for the executing of theire office whether it were in geuinge sentence and making decrees Ecclesiasticall or in visiting and reforming the priests and Leuites that were vnderneth them which if ye can shewe they did not nor coulde do but by the ciuill magistrates authority we shall then geue you some eare But ye proue it not nor euer shall be able to proue this paradoxe And therfore we passe not whether it be true or no that in the .29 of Exodus there is neuer a worde of iurisdiction It is sufficiente that Maister Fekenham proue Aaron to haue bene the highe prieste as he was in dede and so yt appeareth there Where nowe ye would returne against M. Fekenham the .24 of Exodus ye haue forgotten your selfe For at that tyme Aaron was not yet made highe priest but afterward he was so made as appereth in the 3. chapter after Videlicet cap. 28. And therfore he might haue a commission to heare causes in Moses absence well inowgh Moses being then both the prince and the highe priest also ād he as is sayd being yet no priest at al. For your answere to the .3 place by M. Fekenhā alleaged we might passe it sauing that by your cōming in with Vrim and Thunim you haue much holpen M. Fekenhā his argument and cut your self with your Thunim quite ouer the thume For though theis outward miraculouse signes do not nowe appeare in our high priest yet the thing that was signified by Vrim ād Thunim set in the brestplate of the high priest that is light and perfectiō as some expoūd it or as our cōmō trāslatiō hath doctrin ād verity remaine now in our high priest aswel as they did thē remaine in the high priest of the olde Testamēt yea and much more And therfore the true doctrine is to be fetched at the high priests or bisshops hands in al doubts and perplexities of religiō ād cōsequently all lawes decrees and ordinaūces made for the obseruatiō of his sentēce and determinatiō are to be obserued To what purpose were it for priests to declare ād determin the truth if they might not by some forcible Lawe cōpel men to the keping of the same which is nowe chiefly practised in the Church by excōmunicatiōs as appereth by general and by other Coūcels The like hereof the Iewes had in thrusting the disobediēt ād rebellious persons out of the Synagoge Now to imagine such an vnprobable and an vnlikely paradoxe that bishops hauing cōmissiō frō God to fede the people to teache them and instruct them and hauing a charge of their soules for the which they shall make to God an accompt may not visite and reforme their flock by examinations