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cause_n	aaron_n	civil_a	inferior_a	13	3	8.9377	4	false

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ID	Title	Author	Corrected Date of Publication (TCP Date of Publication)	STC	Words	Pages
A12940	A counterblast to M. Hornes vayne blaste against M. Fekenham Wherein is set forthe: a ful reply to M. Hornes Answer, and to euery part therof made, against the declaration of my L. Abbat of Westminster, M. Fekenham, touching, the Othe of the Supremacy. By perusing vvhereof shall appeare, besides the holy Scriptures, as it vvere a chronicle of the continual practise of Christes Churche in al ages and countries, fro[m] the time of Constantin the Great, vntil our daies: prouing the popes and bishops supremacy in ecclesiastical causes: and disprouing the princes supremacy in the same causes. By Thomas Stapleton student in diuinitie.	Stapleton, Thomas, 1535-1598.; Horne, Robert, 1519?-1580. Answeare made by Rob. Bishoppe of Wynchester, to a booke entituled, The declaration of suche scruples, and staies of conscience, touchinge the Othe of the Supremacy, as M. John Fekenham, by wrytinge did deliver unto the L. Bishop of Winchester.; Harpsfield, Nicholas, 1519-1575.	1567 (1567)	STC 23231; ESTC S117788	838,389	1,136

Childebertus the King of Frāce did .489 exact of Pelagius .2 the cōfession of his faith and religion the which the Pope both speedely ād willingly did perfourme C. Sat agendum 25. q. 1. VVhan I was in Calabria saith Quintinus by chaunce I founde a fragment of a certain booke in Lombardye letters hauinge this inscription Capitula Caroli Then followeth an epistle beginning thus I Charles by the grace of God and of his mercy the Kinge and gouernour of the kingdom of Fraunce a deuout defendour of Goddes holy Churche and humble healper thereof To al the orders of the Ecclesiastical power or the dignities of the secular power greeting And so reciteth all those Ecclesiasticall Lavves and constitutions vvhich I haue vvriten before in Charles the great To al which saith Quintinus as it were in maner of a conclusiō are these woordes put to I will compell al men to liue accordinge to the Canons and rules of the Fathers Lewes the Emperour this Charles Sonne kept a Synode wherein he forbadde all Churchmen sumptuousnes or excesse in apparaile vanities of Ievvels and ouermuch pompe Anno Christi .830 He also set forth a booke touching the maner and order of liuing for the Churchmen I doubt not saith Quintīnus but the Church should vse and should be bounde to such lawes meaning as Princes .490 make in Ecclesiastical matters Pope Leo .3 saith he being accused by Campulus and Paschalis did purge himself before Charles the great being at Rome and as yet not Emperour Can. Auditū 2. q. 4. Leo .4 offereth him selfe to be refourmed or amended if he haue done any thing amisse by the iudgement of Lewes the Frenche Kinge being Emperour Can. Nos si incompetenter 2. q. 7. Menna whom Gregory the great calleth moste reuerende brother and fellow Bishop beīg now already purged before Gregory is .491 cōmaunded a freshe to purge himself of the crime obiected before Bruchin●ld the Queene of Fraunce Ca. Menna 2. q. 4. In which question also it is red that Pope Sixtus .3 did purge himselfe before the Emperour Valentinian Can. Mandastis So .492 also Iohn .22 Bisshop of Rome was compelled by meanes of the Diuines of Paris to recante before the Frenche King Philippe not vvithout triumphe the vvhich Io. Gerson telleth in a Sermon De Pasc. The Popes Heresy vvas that he thought the Christian Soules not to be receiued into glory before the resurrection of the Bodies Cresconius a noble man in Sicilia had authoritie or povver geuen him of Pelagius the Pope ouer the Bishoppes in that Prouince oppressing the Cleargie with vexations Can. Illud 10. q. 3. The whiche Canon of the law the Glossar doth interprete to be writē to a secular Prince in Ca. Clericū nullus .11 q. 3. The Abbottes Bishoppes and the Popes them selues in some time paste were chosen by the Kinges prouision Cap. Adrianus .63 dist And in the same Canō Hinc est etiam .16 q. 1. Gregorius wrote vnto the Dukes Rodolph and Bertulph that they shoude in no wise receiue priestes defiled with whoredome or Symony but that they should forbidde thē frō the holy Ministeries § Verum .32 dist in whiche place the interpretours doo note that Laimen sometimes may suspende Cleargymen from their office by the Popes cōmaundement yea also they may excōmunicate whiche is worthy of memory Hytherto Quintinus a learned lavvier and a great mainteinour of the Popes iurisdiction hath declared his opinion and that agreable to the Popes ovvne Lavves that Princes may take vppon them to gouerne in Ecclesiastical .495 matters or causes Stapleton All this processe following tendeth to proue that princes haue a gouernemente in causes and matters ecclesiastical We might perchaunce stande with M. Horne for the worde gouernemente which I suppose can not be iustified by any thing he shall bringe forthe but we wil not For we nede not greatly sticke with him for the terme we wil rather consider the thing yt self First then ye enter M. Horne with an vntruth or two For properly to speake neither were any princes that you here reherse iudges in causes ecclesiastical thowgh they had therein a certain intermedling neither dothe the lawe ye speake of tel of any Bishoppes deposed by the Emperours Arcadius and Honorius but this ▪ onely that if any Bishop be deposed by his fellowe Bishoppes assembled together in councell howe he shal be ordered yf he be fownde afterwarde to attempte anie thing against the common wealth Concerning the doeinges of the Emperour Iustinian in matters ecclesiasticall we haue spoken at large alredie And if he were as ye terme him moste Christian amongest princes and learned in the ecclesiastical disciplines why doe you not belieue him calling Pope Iohn that ye here speake of heade of the Churche and that in the verie place by you alleaged What gouernance in matters ecclesiasticall I praye you was it in Kinge Childebertus if Pope Pelagius to auoyde slaunder and suspicion that he should not thinke wel of the Chalcedon Councell sent to the saied King at his requeste the tenoure of his faythe and beliefe Therefore you doe abuse your Reader and abuse also the woorde exacte whiche signifieth to constraine or compel And that dyd not the Kinge but only dyd require or demaunde Touching the Emperour Charles it is I suppose sufficiently answered alrerdye And if nothing were answered that youre selfe nowe alleage maie serue for a good answere For he maketh no newe rules or Constitutions in Churche matters but establissheth and reneweth the olde and saieth He wil compell all men to lyue according to the rules and Canons of the Fathers Neither doothe he call him selfe heade or Gouernoure of the Churche but a deuoute defender and an humble helper But when he speaketh of his worldlie kingdome he calleth him selfe the gouernour of the kingdome of Fraunce We nede now answere no further for Lewys the Emperour Charles the great his sonne then we haue already answered neither touching Leo the .3 Yf ye say that the Emperour was iudge in the cause of Leo the .4 I graunt you but not by any ordinarie authoritie but because he submitted him selfe and his cause to the Emperours iudgemēt as it appereth by his own text and the glose And it is a rule of the Ciuill Lawe that yf any man of higher Authority wil submit him selfe and his cause to his inferior that in such a case he may be his iudge But now at length it semeth you haue found a laie person yea a woman head of the Churche and that a reuerend Bisshop was cōmaunded to purge him self before her Whie doe ye not tel vs also who cōmaunded him It was not Brunichildis the Frenche Queene but Pope Gregorie that cōmaunded him And when I pray you Surely when he had purged him self before at Rome before Pope Gregory And why was he I pray you sent to the Queene Surely for no great nede but for to cause his

of the lay the bishops and the whole Conuocation withstanding that gifte with al their power I beleue it would trouble him or any wise man els to geue any good reason therefore the obediēce of a Christē mā to the Catholike Church which al Christians in their Crede doe professe presupposed If I should farder aske M. Horn again how he cā goe for a bishop and write him selfe as he dothe in his booke the B. of Winchester being called to that functiō only by the letters patents of the Prince without due Cōsecration or imposition of handes by any Bishop or bisshops liuing which impositiō of hādes S. Paule euidētly practised vpō Timothe ād the vniuersal Church hath alwaies vsed as the only ād proper meanes to order a bishop of the Churche I am wel assured neither he nor al his fellowes being all vnordered prelats shall euer be able to make any sufficient or reasonable answer answering as Christiā Catholike mē whereby it may appeare that they may goe for right bishops of Christes Church but that thei must remain as they were before or mere lay men or simple priestes Last of al take you yourself in dede M. Horn for a bishop If so thē may you preache the word minister the sacramēts bind ād lose vpō the cōmissiō geuē you by God in holy scripture without any furder cōmissiō of the prince If you may so do thē put the case the Q. Mai. that now is or any other king or Queene of England hereafter should forbid you to preach the word to minister the sacraments or to execute any other part of the bishoply functiō ▪ and by cōmmissiō appoint some other to that functiō Wil you obey or wil you not If yea thē do you forsake your duty and charge cōmitted vnto you by God If not thē by vertue of this Act you incurre the penalty therof To this questiō answer M. Horn if you be able and make if you cā Christs cōmissiō the holy Scriptures and this Act to agree both together that the keping of the one import not the breach of thother But this shal you neuer be able to do while you liue stāding to that which in this your booke you haue cōfessed Thus you see euery way how in your own sayings you are intrapped ouertakē and cōfounded And so must it nedes fal out with euery mā that with any truth or ꝓbability laboreth to maintain an vntruth or absurdity As for your forged and presūptuous limitatiō vpō the words of th' Act and abridgīg of the Q. Ma. autoriti therin expressed I leaue that mater furder to be cōsidered by the graue wisdom of the most Honorables Here remain yet some vntruthes by you auouched that would be cōfuted which because the answer alredy waxeth prolixe and long I wil but touch The holy Gospel saith whose syns ye retain shal be retained whose syns ye lose in earth their syns shal be loosed in heauē Cōtrary to the plaine words of the gospel you wil haue no actual bindīg or losing by the priest in dede but a declaratiō ād an assurāce that they are losed or boūd cōtrary I say not only to the words of the gospel but also to the doctrin ād practise of the vniuersal Church wher the priest hath euer said to the penitēt Ego absoluote c. I absolue thee ād saieth not I declare and assure thee that thou art absolued This is a plaine heresy not much vnlike to the Nouatiās whō S. Ambrose cōfuteth sauing that their heresy is not so large as is yours For they but in certain crimes denied power of losing in the church referring that power in such cases ōly to God You deny to be in the church any power at al either of binding or of losing referring al the power to God only ād not cōsidering how God is to be praised qui talē potestatē dedit hoīb Who gaue such power to men Which the cōmon Iewes had yet the grace to cōsider in the high Bishop ād chief priest Christ Iesus our Sauiour An other of your hereticall vntruthes in this place also is that you denie the sacramente of confirmation and that the holie ghoste is not geuen by the imposition of the Bisshoppes hands We reade in S Luke that Christe at his ascension promised the holy ghost to them which was performed vppon whitsonday And what was that but their confirmation̄ We reade that S. Paule after he had baptized certain parsons in the which baptisme no doubte they receiued the holy ghoste he put his handes vppon them and they thereby receiued the holy ghoste And this was their confirmation The like is writen in the place here by M. Fekenham alleaged of the Apostles Peter and Iohn that put theire handes vppon those that before were baptized by Philip the Deacon and they thervppon receiued the holy ghoste The which did in the primitiue Churche worke in the Christians with inuisible grace and visible miracles at the time of their confirmatiō as yt now worketh by inuisible grace onely with a strengthening and confirming of the ghostly and spiritual giftes before receiued wherof the Sacrament hath his name And therfore the Bishoppes cōmission for geuing by the imposition of theire handes the holy ghoste may be iustified aswell by the former authorities of scripture as by the authority practise and doctrine of the Churche that belieueth that the holy ghoste is geuē for the encrease of al spiritual strength in confirmation The .164 Diuision pag. 109. a. M. Fekenham Wherevnto I do adioyne this obiectiō following First for the time of the old lawe whiche as Paule saide was a very figure of the new Moses Aaron Eleazarus being Priests they had by the very expresse worde of God this iurisdiction ouer the people of God as to sit in iudgement vpon them and that not only in Ecclesiasticall but also in Politike and ciuill matters and causes they did visite them they did refourme them they did order correct ād punish them so oft as cause required and without al commission of any ciuill Magistrate Gouernour Kinge or Prince Besides that for the whole time of the olde Lawe there was an expresse Law made where by all Ciuill Magistrats and Iudges were cōmaunded in al doubtfull matters to repaire to the Bisshops and Priests and to staie vppon their determinations and iudgemēts without declining on the righte hande or the lefte And if that any mā should disobey the determinatiō once geuen of the Priest Morietur homo ille like as it appeareth Deut. 17. M. Horne This adiūct vvil not serue your turn for it is not possible to stretch it vvithout bursting to ioyn with that you must conclude You begin to ioyne your vvorke together vvith a saying of S. Paule vvhich he .587 neuer said you should haue noted the place vvhere S. Paul saith that the old Lavv vvas a very figure of the nevv There is no such

his own supreme Authority depose and set vp bisshops and Priests make Iniunctions of doctrine prescribe order of Gods seruice enact matters of religion approue and disproue Articles of the faith take order for administration of Sacraments commaunde or put to silence preachers determine doctrine excommunicat and absolue with such like which all are causes ecclesiastical and al apperteyning not to the inferiour ministerye which you graunt to Priestes and bisshops onely but to the supreme iurisdiction and gouernment which you doe annexe to the Prince onely This I say is the state of the Question now present For the present Question betwene you and M. Fekenham is grounded vppon the Othe comprised in the Statute which Statute emplieth and concludeth al these particulars For concealing whereof you haue M. Horne in the framing of your ground according to the Statute omitted cleane the ij clauses of the Statute folowing The one at the beginning where the Statute saith That no forayn person shall haue any maner of Authority in any spirituall cause within the Realme By which wordes is flatly excluded all the Authority of the whole body of the Catholike Church without the Realme As in a place more conuenient toward the end of the last book it shal by Gods grace be euidently proued The other clause you omitte at the ende of the said Satute which is this That all maner Superiorities that haue or maye lawfully be exercised for the visitatiō of persons Ecclesiasticall and correcting al maner of errours heresies and offences shall be for euer vnited to the Crowne of the Realme of Englande Wherein is employed that yf which God forbidde a Turke or any heretike whatsoeuer shoulde come to the Crowne of Englande by vertu of this Statute and of the Othe al maner superioritye in visiting and correcting Ecclesiastical persones in al maner matters should be vnited to him Yea and euery subiecte should sweare that in his conscience he beleueth so This kinde of regiment therefore so large and ample I am right wel assured ye haue not proued nor euer shal be able to proue in the auncient Church while ye liue When I say this kinde of regiment I walke not in confuse and general words as ye doe but I restrayne my self to the foresaid particulars now rehersed and to that platte forme that I haue already drawen to your hand and vnto the which Maister Fekenham must pray you to referre and apply your euidences Otherwise as he hath so may he or any man els the chiefe pointes of all being as yet on your side vnproued still refuse the Othe For the which doinges neither you nor any man else can iustly be greued with him As neither with vs M. Horne ought you or any mā els be greued for declaring the Truth in this point as yf we were discōtēted subiects or repyning against the obediēce we owe to our Gracious Prince and our Countre For beside that we ought absolutely more obey God then man and preferre the Truth which our Sauiour himself protested to be encouraging al the faithful to professe the Truth and geuing them to wit that in defending that they defended Christ himself before al other worldly respects whatsoeuer beside al this I say whosoeuer wil but indifferently consider the matter shal see that M. Horne himselfe in specifying here at large the Quenes Mai. gouernement by the Statute intended doth no lesse in effect abridge the same by dissembling silence then the Catholikes doe by open and plain contradiction For whereas the Statute and the Othe to the which all must swere expresseth A supreme gouernment in al thinges and causes without exception Maister Horne taking vpon him to specifie the particulars of this general decree and amplyfying that litle which he geueth to the Quenes Maiesty with copy of wordes ful statutelyke he leaueth yet out and by that leauing out taketh from the meaning of the Statute the principal cause ecclesiasticall and most necessary mete and conuenient for a Supreme Gouernour Ecclesiasticall What is that you aske Forsoth Iudgement determining and approuing of doctrine which is true and good and which is otherwise For what is more necessary in the Churche then that the Supreme gouernour thereof should haue power in al doubtes and controuersies to decide the Truthe and to make ende of questioning This in the Statute by Maister Hornes silence is not comprised And yet who doubteth that of al thinges and causes Ecclesiastical this is absolutelye the chiefest Yea and who seeth not that by the vertue of this Statute the Quenes Maiesty hath iudged determined and enacted a new Religiō contrary to the iudgement of all the Bisshops and clergy in the Conuocation represented of her highnes dominions Yea and that by vertue of the same Authority in the last paliament the booke of Articles presented and put vp there by the consent of the whole conuocation of the newe pretended clergy of the Realme and one or ij only excepted of al the pretended Bisshops also was yet reiected and not suffred to passe Agayne preachinge the woorde administration of the Sacramentes binding and loosing are they not thinges and causes mere Spirituall and Ecclesiasticall And howe then are they here by you omitted Maister Horne Or howe make you the Supreme gouernment in al causes to rest in the Quenes Maiesty yf these causes haue no place there Which is nowe better I appeale to al good consciences plainly to maintayne the Truthe then dissemblinglye to vpholde a falshood Plainly to refuse the Othe so generallye conceyued then generally to sweare to it beinge not generallye meaned But now let vs see how M. Horne wil direct his proufes to the scope appointed THE SECOND BOOKE DISPROVING THE PRETENSED PRActise of Ecclesiastical gouernement in Emperours and Princes of the first .600 yeares after Christ. M. Horne The .28 Diuision pag. 19. b. Constantinus of vvhose careful gouernmēt in Church causes I haue spoken somevvhat before tooke vpon him and did exercise the 70. supreme rule and gouernement in repressing al maner Idolatrie and false Relligion in refourming and promoting the true religion and in restreining and correcting al maner errours schismes heresies and other enormities in or about religion and vvas moued herevnto of duety euen by Gods vvorde as he him self reporteth in a vehemēt prayer that he maketh vnto God saiyng I haue takē vpō me and haue brought to passe helthful things meaning reformation of Religion being perswaded therevnto by thy word And publishing to all Churches after the Councel at Nice vvhat vvas there done he professeth that in his iudgement the chiefest end and purpose of his Imperial gouernement ought to be the preseruation of true religiō and godly quietnes in al Churches I haue iudged saith this godlye Emperoure this ought before all other thinges to be the ende or purpose wherevnto I should addresse my power and authority in gouernement that the vnitie of faith pure loue and agreemēt of religiō towardes the

great dissention kindled partly about a necessarie Article of our beliefe partly about a ceremony of the Churche Arrius incensed vvith ambitious enuie against Alexander his bisshop at alexandria vvho disputed in one of his lessons or treatises more subtily of the diuinity than aduisedly as the Emperour layeth to his chardge quarreled Sophistically against him and mainteined an horrible Heresis Besides this the Churches vvere also diuided amongest themselues about the order or ceremony of keeping the Easterday The Emperour sent Hosius vvith his letters as I sayd before into the Easte parties to appeace the furious dissentiō about both these matters and to reconcile the parties dissenting But vvhen this duetiful seruice of the Emperour tooke not that effect vvhich he vvished and hoped for then as Sozomenus vvriteth he summoned a councel to be holden at Nice in Bythinia and vvrote to al the chief Ministers of the Churches euery vvhere .84 commaunding thē that they should not fayle to bee there at the day appointed The selfe same also doth Theodoretus affirme both touching the occasion and also the summons made by the Emperour Eusebius also vvriting the life of Constantine shevveth vvith vvhat carefulnes the godly Emperour endeuoured to quenche these fiers And vvhen the Emperour saieth Eusebius savve that be preuailed nothing by sending of Hosius vvith his letters Considering this matter with him self said that this warre against the obscure enemy troubling the Church must be vanquished by an other meaning himselfe Therefore as the capitaines of Goddes army towards his voayge he gathered together a Synode oecumenical and he called the Bisshops together by his honorable letters and that they should hasten them selues from euery place These things touching the occasion and cal●ing of this general counsaile by the Emperour are affirmed to be true also by Nicephorus the Ecclesiastical historian Yea the vvhole counsaile in their letters to the ●hurches in Aegipt and the East partes doe testifie the same Synode to be called by the Emperour saying The great and holy Synode was gathered together at Nice by the grace of God and the most religious Emperour Constantine c. The .4 Chapter Of Constantin the Emperour his dealing in the Nicene Councel and with Arius after the Councell Stapleton MAister Horne here entreth to a greate matter and maketh large promises both to proue his principall purpose effectually and to confounde M. Fekēham manifestly But he wil I trowe when he hath al sayed be as farre from them both as if he had helde his peace First to proue a Supreme gouernment in Constantin he telleth vs that Constantine summoned the great Councel at Nice in Bithynia but if he had set in out of Ruffinus Ex Sacerdotū Sententia by the wil minde and consent of the Priests that is of the bisshops then had he marred all his matter and therefore wilily he lefte it out If he had added also out of Theodoret whome he alleageth to proue that the Emperour summoned this Coūcel why and wherefore the Emperour would be present at the Councel him self this imagined Primacy that Maister Horne so depely dreameth of would haue appeared a very dreame in dede The Emperor was present saith Theodoret bothe desirous to beholde the Number of the Bisshops and also coueting to procure vnyty among them These and such like causes doe the Ecclesiastical histories alleage But for any supreme gouernment that the Emperour should practise there as namelye that his Royall assent was necessary to confirme the Coūcell or that without it Arius had not bene cōdemned and that he iudged the heresie or any such matter as you now M. Horne doe attribute to the Prince hauing your whole religion only by the Princes Authority enacted and confirmed for any such matter I say neither in this Councel nor in any other doe the Auncient histories recorde so muche as one word Your new Religion M. Horne hath set vp a new kinde of gouernment such as al the Christian worlde neuer knewe nor hearde of before Nowe that you say the occasion of this famous and most godly Councel was the dissension partly about a necessary Article of our beliefe partly about a ceremony of the Churche which ceremony you say after was of keeping the Easterdaye yf it be so as you say as it is most truely what saye you to your owne Apologie that saieth that the vsuall keeping of Easter daye is a matter of small weight and to your greate Antiquary Bale that saieth it is but a ceremony of Hypocrites Suerly Constantin made a greater accompte of this vniforme obseruation then so seeing that it was the seconde chiefe cause that caused him to summon this famous and most godly Councell ▪ as your selfe calleth it Seing also that he maketh them not much better then Iewes that priuately in his time kept Easter daye otherwise then Rome Afrik Italy Aegypte Spaigne Fraunce Grece Britanny and many other greate countries that he him selfe reakoneth vppe And here by the way falleth out in M. Iewel a lye or two saying that our Countre .700 yeres together kept their Paschal daye with the Grecians otherwise then we doe nowe Ye see I haue abridged .300 yeares and a halfe at the lest For Constantin wrote these wordes straight after the Nicene Councell ended which was kept in the yere of our Lorde .328 M. Horne The .35 Diuision Pag. 23. a. The Bishoppes as I said before vvhen they thought them selues or their Churche iniuried by others vvere vvont to appeale and flie vnto the Emperour as the .85 supreme gouernour in al matters and causes Temporall or Spirituall the vvhiche appeareth moste playne to be the practise of the Churche by these Bishops called vnto the Nicene counsaill For vvhen they came to Nice supposing them selues to haue novve good oportunity beyng nighe vnto the Emperour to reuenge their priuate quarelles and to haue redresse at the Emperours handes of suche iniuries as they thought thē selues to susteyne at others byshops handes eche of them gaue vnto the Emperour a Libell of accusations signifying vvhat vvronges he had susteyned of his fellovve Bishopes and prayed ayde and redresse by his iudgement The Emperour forseyng that these pryuate quarelings if they vvere not by some policy and vvyse deuise sequestred and layde aside vvould muche hynder the common cause tooke deliberatiō appointing a day against the vvhich they shuld be in a readines and commaunded them to prepare and bring vnto him all their libelles and quarelling accusations one against an other Mark by the vvay the craft and practise of Sathan to stay and ouerthrovv good purposes that euen the godly fathers and Bishoppes vvanted not their great infirmities preferring their ovvn priuate trifles before the vveighty causes of Gods Churche And the vvisdome zeale and humblenes of his moste Christian Emperour vvho so litle estemed his ovvn honour and authority that he vvold rather seeme to be inferiour or for the time no more than equal vvith

and doth extorte our confession in this poynte Whiche reason is that God loueth his Churche aswell as he did the Iewes Synagoge and hath as louingly as plentifully and as effectually prouided for the good gouernement of the same as he dyd for the synagoge And therefore to pacifie Diuisions schismes and heresies he hath prouided vs one spirituall Cowrte to decide and vtterly to determyn al controuersies rising vppon matters of religion as he prouided for the Iewes And so much the more amonge Christians then among the Iewes for that the Christians beinge of so many and diuers nations tongues wyttes manners and fasshions many cōtrouersies for fayth and religion and of more weight and moment will also arise and springe vppe then euer rose amonge the Iewes beinge but one onely Nation Especially the Apostle foretellinge vs that heresies must arise And yf there be not one certayne iudg appoynted to whome all nations must indifferently obeye yt muste neades be that Christendome shall contynewe in a continuall broyle and ruffle of sects and heresies Which also haue in our tyme so terribly and hugely encreased by nothinge more then that we geue no eare to this one iudge and that we do not as our forefathers haue done staye our selues and depende vppon this the highest cowrte of all Christendome Ye see nowe good reader both the figure and the reason of the figure what sayeth nowe M. Horne to it Full pretely I warrante yow and that is that Maister Fekenham doth not aptly conclude that the bisshoppes in the tyme of the Ghospell owght to haue iurisdiction by the expresse woorde of God to kepe cowrts to call Councells to make Lawes to visite and to reforme caet because the highe priest and the temporall iudge did determyne doubtfull cases in the tyme of the olde testament for the priest alone did not determyne all causes as M. Fekenham seameth to alleage the text Here may yow playnelie see that Maister Fekenham can not vse his owne armure but such onely as Maister Horne wil graunt him For neither M. Fekenham speaketh of the temporall iudge nor his texte be it Latin Greke or Hebrewe They all speake of a iudge but nothing is there to signifie this woorde temporall This woorde is shamefully infarsed by Maister Horne to vpholde his temporall supremacye by this place most greauously battered The iudge and the high Priest is al one as doth appere by the letter and by the doing of Kinge Iosaphat which was conformable to the cōmaundement of Moyses where as Amarias is appointed the chief for spiritual matters as Zabadias was for those thinges that perteyned to the Kinges office Which may be wel vnderstanded for the bodilie punishment of those that disobeyed the high priest and to put them to death yf the case required according to the Lawe And in that sense yt may be taken perchaunce for a temporal Iudge This notwithstanding yt agreeth well enowghe with the high priest to For that diuerse tymes aswell before there were any Kings as afterward the high priest had the cheif regiment both temporal and Ecclesiasticall but though he had not euer the temporal yet had he euer the Ecclesiasticall supremacy And therefore it is writen of the Prophete Malachie that the lipps of the priestes shall preserue knowledg and they shall seke the lawe at his mowthe And it is here writen who so euer disobeyeth the priest shal die He saith not who so euer diosobeyeth the temporal Iudge For the high Priest is the Iudge al one person and not two And so S. Cyprian with the other fathers taketh place When I speake of the high priest I exclude not other of the clergy with whome the Pope in all graue and weighty causes vseth to consult and of congruence ought so to do and so it was in the old Law Neither M. Fekenham as ye charge him saith so but layeth forth the text as it is saying that he that disobeyeth the priest shall die for it Nowe the highe priest being this authorised and Moses Aaron and Eleazarus being successiuely the highe priestes it must nedes follow that they had the chiefe superiority for matters ecclesiastical neding no further authority then that they had by the expresse woorde of God for the executing of theire office whether it were in geuinge sentence and making decrees Ecclesiasticall or in visiting and reforming the priests and Leuites that were vnderneth them which if ye can shewe they did not nor coulde do but by the ciuill magistrates authority we shall then geue you some eare But ye proue it not nor euer shall be able to proue this paradoxe And therfore we passe not whether it be true or no that in the .29 of Exodus there is neuer a worde of iurisdiction It is sufficiente that Maister Fekenham proue Aaron to haue bene the highe prieste as he was in dede and so yt appeareth there Where nowe ye would returne against M. Fekenham the .24 of Exodus ye haue forgotten your selfe For at that tyme Aaron was not yet made highe priest but afterward he was so made as appereth in the 3. chapter after Videlicet cap. 28. And therfore he might haue a commission to heare causes in Moses absence well inowgh Moses being then both the prince and the highe priest also ād he as is sayd being yet no priest at al. For your answere to the .3 place by M. Fekenhā alleaged we might passe it sauing that by your cōming in with Vrim and Thunim you haue much holpen M. Fekenhā his argument and cut your self with your Thunim quite ouer the thume For though theis outward miraculouse signes do not nowe appeare in our high priest yet the thing that was signified by Vrim ād Thunim set in the brestplate of the high priest that is light and perfectiō as some expoūd it or as our cōmō trāslatiō hath doctrin ād verity remaine now in our high priest aswel as they did thē remaine in the high priest of the olde Testamēt yea and much more And therfore the true doctrine is to be fetched at the high priests or bisshops hands in al doubts and perplexities of religiō ād cōsequently all lawes decrees and ordinaūces made for the obseruatiō of his sentēce and determinatiō are to be obserued To what purpose were it for priests to declare ād determin the truth if they might not by some forcible Lawe cōpel men to the keping of the same which is nowe chiefly practised in the Church by excōmunicatiōs as appereth by general and by other Coūcels The like hereof the Iewes had in thrusting the disobediēt ād rebellious persons out of the Synagoge Now to imagine such an vnprobable and an vnlikely paradoxe that bishops hauing cōmissiō frō God to fede the people to teache them and instruct them and hauing a charge of their soules for the which they shall make to God an accompt may not visite and reforme their flock by examinations