The wordes are thus to bee read Bowe at his footestoole that is at the Arke and Mercie-seat for there hee hath made a promise of his presence the words therefore say not bow to the Arke but to God at the Arke The first reason by him proposed is this Psalme 98. Cast dovvne your selues before his sootesâ—oole vvhich vvas the Arke novv if the Arke vvere to be vvorshipped because it represented Gods foot-stoole much more may the Image be vvorshipped M. Perkins ansvvereth that the vvords must be englished thus Boâ— at or before the Arke notto the Arke but to God before the Arke Reply If it were so yet must they admit that wee must kneele at or before Images so we kneele to honour or pray to God against which some of their Preachers do crielike mad-men but the Hebreâ— phrase carryeth that wee must kneele to the arke as they who be skâ—lfull in the language do know and that the arke was worshipped of the Israelites is otherwise very euident for first none but the high Priest might come into the place where it was and it was carried before the campewith great solemnitie to search out a reasting place for the whole host And when they were to sight against the Philistins * they had great confidence in the presence of the arke and cap. 6,50000 of the Bethsamites were slaine for seeing the arke and Oza vvas by God smitten to death for touching the arke Doth not all this conuince in vvhat reuerence the arke vvas had euen by Gods owne testimonie speaker A. W. Your first reason to prooue the worshipping of Images is this If the Arke were to be worshipped because it represented Gods footstoole much more may the Image be worshipped But the Arke was therefore to be worshipped Therefore much more may the Image be worshipped I denie your whole Antecedent first the consequence of your proposition For it doth not follow that we may worship Images deuised by men to represent God because we may worship the Arke where God himselfe promised his presence and which he did appoint as an assurance of his presence If you can shew vs the like promise to your Images you say somewhat else nothing Your Assumption also is false The Arke was not to be worshipped To your proofe Master Perkins answers truly that the Psalme doth not commaund worshipping of the Arke but worship before the Arke You replie first that therefore it is lawfull to kneele before Images I answere your consequence is false because your Images are your owne wicked deuices and haue no promise of Gods presence therefore it is senselesnes to kneele before them not madnes to crie out against such follie Your second replie is that the Hebrew phrase carrieth it that we must kneele to the Arke as the skilfull in that language know First remember that these are Authors in the ayre as you answered about that place of Daniel Secondly know that they that are skilfull say otherwise What say you to the Chaldee Paraphrast who expounds it Worship in the house of his Sanctuarie and yet he keepes the proposition that is in the Hebrew So doth the Latin translation in the same Psalme where the same proposition is vsed worship in his holy mountaine the Chaldee hath in the mountaine of the house of his Sanctuarie the Greeke not much vnlike In or toward his holy hill The same seemes to haue been Theodorets iudgement of the place in question His footstoole was sometimes thought to be the Temple at Ierusalem but now the Churches which are ouer all the earth and Sea wherein wee worship the most holy God Of the same opinion is Vatablus Cast downe your selues before his footstoole that is as hee expounds himselfe in his note there In the Temple or before the Arke in which God exhibited his presence So doth Lyra interpret it who was a Iew borne and a Christian by profession worship his footstole that is before his footstoole The ordinarie and Interlinear glosses expound it out of the Fathers of Christs manhood to be worshipped by reason of the hypostatical vnion of it with the Godhead what is that to the worshipping of Images For the further auowing of that translation we haue also R. Dauid Kimchis authoritie Lastly you bring diuers proofes that the Arke was had in great reuerence all needlesse for who denies it Was there not great reason to esteeme highly of that whereby God was extraordinarily present with the Iewes as with no people nor in any place of the world beside What then was it therefore worshipped by the Priest when he went in once a yeere where it was Did the people worship it when it was carried before them As for that confidence the Iewes put in it they got little by it because they superstitiously abused it against Gods commandement putting trust in the presence of it abroad when it should haue been in the Tabernacle where God had promised his presence with it Was this worship to the Arke which the Lord deliuered into the hands of the Philistins Neither were those 50070. Bethsamites slaine for not worshipping it but for presuming to looke into it and Vzzah for touching it not because he did not worship it speaker D. B. P. To this may be added the authoritie of S. Ierom vvho doth teach that it vvas the more vvorshipped for the Cherubines and pictures of angels that vvere erected at the endes of it vvhereby he declareth that he thought Images vvorthie of religious vvorship speaker A. W. Of Ieroms 17. Epistle alleaged by Master Perkins to proue that Rome is Babylon you answere thus Good sir if S. Ierome had meant that that Epistle should haue had his authoritie he would haue set it out in his owne name which seeing he thought it not expedient set the authoritie of it aside and vrge his reasons if you thinke it worth your labour and you shall be answered These your owne words shall serne in steed of answere But for the satisfying of all men I will set downe Ieromes words that they may see with what care and truth you cite the testimonies of the ancient writers The Iewes saith Ierome in former times worshipped the Holy of Holies because there were the Cherubins and the Propitiatorie and the Arke of the Testament Manna Aarons Rod and the golden Altar Doth Ierome teach in these words that the Arke was the more worshipped for the Cherubins and pictures of Angels that were erected at the end of it First he makes no mention of any pictures of Angels but onely of the Cherubins Secondly he speakes not of worshipping the Arke but the Holy of Holies because of the things that were in it Thirdly he makes the Propitiatorie Manna Aarons Rod and the golden Altar causes of that worship as well as the Cherubins Lastly in the words following he counts the Sepulchre of our Lord more worthie of worship
with S. Bernard who liued 1000. yeares after Christ He in I know not what place the quotation is so doubtfull saith Those things vvhich vve call merits are the vvay to the Kingdome but not the cause of raigning speaker A. W. You that twight vs so much with ignorance and brag so much of your owne knowledge especially in the old writers should haue all these places at your fingers ends but this answere if it were true must needs be more by gesse then by cunning Bernard sayes merits are the way not the cause if he had meant as you would haue him he should and would haue said that they were not the whole cause but the party or ioint cause but he denyes them altogether the nature of causes by giuing them another place to be the way to heauen speaker A. W. I answere that merits be not the whole cause but the promise of God through Christ and the grace of God freely bestowed on vs out of which our merits proceed Which is Bernards owne doctrine What is Bernards owne doctrine your whole answer or only the later part of it let the reader iudge These are Bernards words As it is inough to merit not to presume of merit so to want merits is inough to condemnation If he speake of merits properly taken what presumption is it for a man to demand his right But because our good works which he as other auncient writers calls merits are imperfit therefore our greatest merit is to know we merit not for the later part of his sentence we graunt that it is inough to damnation for a man to be without good works It followes in Bernard No infants regenerate want merits but haue Christs whereof notwithstanding they make themselues vnworthie if they had opportunitie to add their owne and neglected it which is the danger of riper yeares Infants sayes Bernard haue Christs merits but if they come to yeares they must also haue some of their owne What merits to deserue heauen then were Christs insufficient but they must haue good works without which they make themselues vnworthie of any benefit by Christ. Is not this whollie our doctrine let vs heare his conclusion Haue a care sayes Bernard to haue merits hauing them know they were giuen thee hope for the fruite of them by the mercy of God and thou hast auoided all danger of pouertie vnthankefulnes and presumption We must haue good workes else wee are poore we must know they are not of our selues else we are vnthankfull we must looke for reward of mercie not of debt else we are presumptuous So that Bernard requires good workes not as the cause but as the way betwixt Gods promise and performance of giuing euerlasting life to them that are iustified and sanctified speaker W. P. August Manual cap. 22. All my hope is in the death of my Lord. His death is my merit my merit is the passion of the Lord. I shall not be voide of merits so long as Gods mercies are not wanting speaker D. B. P. Secondly he citeth Saint Augustine All my hope is in the death of my Lord his death is my merit True in a good sense that is by the vertue of his death and passion my sinnes are pardoned and grace is bestowed on me to doe good workes and so to merit speaker A. W. You leaue out the better halfe of that which was alleaged out of Austin which indeede ouerthrowes your answere That Christ hath procured pardon and grace for you to merit by but Austin saith that the death and passion of the Lord are his merit that is by your interpretation his merit of grace not of glorie For that he must merit by well vsing the grace which Christ hath deserued for him to cut off this Austin addes I shall not be voide of merits so long as Gods mercies are not wanting Haue those works the true and whole nature of merit which receiue their worth from Gods mercie If you will answere that by Gods mercie he meanes not his accepting of the worke but his supplying vs with grace to worke I replie that he may for all that mercie want merits because it depends vpon his own free will when God hath done his vttermost whether hee will worke or no. But that which followes in Austin shewes that all is in Gods mercie If saith he the mercies of the Lord be many I am much in merit the mightier he is to saue the more am I secure So that Austin takes all from himselfe and giues it to God speaker W. P. Basil. on Psal. 114. Eternall rest is reserued for them which haue striuen lawfully in this life not for the merits of their doings but vpon the grace of the most bountifull God in which they trusted speaker D. B. P. These words are vntruly translated for first he maketh with the Apostle eternall life to be the prize of that combate and then addeth that it is not giuen according vnto the debt and iust rate of the works but in a fuller measure according vnto the bounty of so liberall a Lord Where hence is gathered that common and most true sentence That God punisheth men vnder their deserts but rewardeth them aboue their merits speaker A. W. Wherein lies the error of the translation You take too much vpon you as if all the world were bound to allow your word without any further proofe But let vs examine the translation Eternall rest saith Basil is reserued for them who in this life haue striuen lawfully not as a debt paid them for their worke but giuen them vpon the most bountifull grace of God in whom they haue hoped He is desirous to picke quarrels that findes fault with such translations What one word hath Master Perkins left out or misinterpreted that might be any thing to your aduantage But the testimonie was too plaine to admit any cauill else the translation had been good enough But your proofe is at least as bad as your accusation To prooue the words are vntruly translated you tell vs that Basil makes eternall life the prize of the combat what is this to the purpose where is the fault of the translation But let vs take your interpretation of his meaning If the reward be not giuen according to debt but in a fuller measure and yet no greater thing giuen than euerlasting life doubtlesse our workes deserue not truly and wholy the reward of euerlasting life that God bestowes on them of bountie speaker W. P. August on Psal. 120. He crowneth thee because he crowneth his owne gifts not thy merits speaker D. B. P. S. Augustine was to wise to let any such foolish sentence passe his penne What congruity is in this He crowneth thee because he crowneth his ovvne gifts not thy merits It had been better said He crowneth thee not c. speaker A. W. It may be apparant to all men who consider this mans course in answering the testimonies of the Fathers that
first reason is this that vvhich is more pleasant and gratefull vnto God may verie vvell be Vovved to him but Virginitie is more acceptable to God then marriage The first proposition is manifest and hath no other exception against it but that vvhich before is confuted to vvit if vve be able to performe it The second is denied by them vvhich vve proue in expresse tearmes out of S. Paul He that ioyneth his Virgin doth vvell but he that ioyneth her not doth better and againe of Widdowes They shall be more happie by S. Pauls iudgement if they remaine vnmarried This may be confirmed our of Esay Where God promiseth the Eunuch that holdeth greatlie of the thing that pleaseth him that he vvill giue him in his houshold and vvithin his vvalles a better heritage and name than if they had bin called sonnes and daughters I vvill saith God giue them an euerlasting name And also out of the booke of Wisdome Blessed is the Eunuch which hath vvrought no vnrighteousnesse c. For vnto him shall be giuen the speciall gift of faith and the most acceptable portion in our Lords Temple for glorious is the fruit of God Which is also plainlie taught in the Reuelations Where it is said that no man could sing that song but 14400. and the cause is set dovvne These be they vvhich haue not been defiled vvith vvomen for they are Virgins To these latter places M. Perkins anivvereth page 24â— that to the Eunuch is promised a greater revvard but not because of his chastity but because he keepeth the Lords Sabbath and couenant but this is said vnaduisedly for to all others that keepe Gods commanments shall be giuen a heauenly revvard but vvhy shall they haue a better heritage and more acceptable portion than others but because of their speciall prerogatiue of chastity speaker A. W. What needs that be prooued which wee graunt it is questionles lawfull for such as being free find themselues fitted by God to single life to resolue vpon the continuance of it as long as they shall be in that case But I doubt your reasons are scarce good The first hath a suspitious assumption because it implies that single life of it selfe should please God better then marriage which I haue shewed to be false To your proofe I answere that the happines the Apostle speakes of is that which Theodoret names viz. being without care and hauing more free liberty to serue God as he prooues out of the Apostle himselfe who sheweth by his whole discourse that he prefers that single life before the married only in regard of the present times and opportunitie of seruing God generally This saith he is good for the present necessitie vers 26. such shall haue trouble in the flesh I would haue you without care The vnmarried careth for the things of the Lord. That of Esay prooues nothing to the purpose for the Prophet speakes not of them that had made any vow of continencie but of such as were made Eunuches by men against their wils to whom he makes promise not for their continencie which was no way voluntary but for their keeping of his Sabbaths and choosing the thing that pleaseth him and taking hold of his couenant The Eunuch and the Gentile saith Lyra comming to faith shall obtaine as much grace and glory other things alike Now these young Widdows if the Protestants doctrine were true not hauing the gift of continencie did very well to marrie and were in no sort bound to keepe their Vowes which vvas not in their povver But the Apostle doth not acquit them of their Vow but teacheth that they were bound to keepe it in that he pronounceth damnation to them if they marry speaker A. W. It must be prooued that there was such a vow made to Christ before it can be truly affirmed that the Apostle speakes of it in this place The first faith or vow of a Christian to God is that generall promisse of obedience in Baptisme or the vndertaking of the profession of Christianitie as it appeareth by Ierome speaking of Marcion and Basilides two infamous hereticks they are not worthie of credit saith Ierome they haue forsaken their first faith But if you will needs referre this to the matter there particularly in question the fault is not leauing to be a widow but forsaking the calling in the Church which they had of their own will vndertaken This necessarily ensued vpon their marriage because only widowes had that office of looking to the poore and diseased It is farther to be obserued that the Apostle seemes to lay the fault vpon their wilfull wantonnes and not to graunt that there was any necessitie of vsing marriage for a remedie when such a case falls out it is the iudgement of the auntient writers that it is better to marry then to continue in vncleanes Wee must saith Ierome plainely charge vowed virgins whose behauiour defames and shames the holy purpose of virgins and the glory of the heauenly and angelicall family that either they marry if they cannot conteine or conteine if they will not marry They marry not saith Austin because they cannot without rebuke yet better were it for them to marry then to burne It may happen saith Thomas that in some case a vow may be either vtterly ill or vnprofitable or an hinderance vnto some other good thing of greater waight And therefore it must of necessitie be determined that in such a case a vow ought not to be kept An adulterers case saith Cyprian is worse then his that hath betrayed the faith And Ambrose when he had said that a vowed virgin if she haue a mind to marry committeth adultery and is made the handmaid of death yet addes afterwards that she is twice an adulteresse which is defiled with secret and priuie filthines faining her selfe to be that which indeed she is not speaker D. B. P. Thirdly the example of our heauenly Sauiour who would neuer marrie and of the blessed Virgin S. Mary vvho Vovved perpetuall Virginitie And of the glorious Apostles as who S. â—rome vvitnesseth vvere in part Virgins and all after their follovving of Christ abstained from the company of their Wiues And of the best Christians in the purest antiquitie vvho as Iustinas one of the auncientest Greeke Authors among Christians And Tertullian his peere among the Latins doe testifie did liue perpetuall Virgins Out of these examples vve frame this Argument Our Captaines and ring-leaders vvho knew well which vvas the best vvay and whose examples vve are to follovv as neere as vve can Vovving Virginity vve must needs esteeme that state for more perfect speciallie vvhen as the single man careth only hovv to please God that to be holy in bodie and mind as the Apostle writs vvhen as the married are choked vvith cares of this vvorld And vnlesse a man had made a league vvith hell or vvere as blind as a Beetle hovv can
2. Synod 7. I honour the historie of the Images and doe properly worship them Finally in the 7. general Councell holden 900. yeeres past they are condemned of heresie that denie the vse and vvorshipping of holy Images speaker A. W. Lactantius though he were an ancient Christian was not diuine and in these verses if they be his he sheweth himselfe liker a light Poet then a graue writer whose authority should be taken in so great a matter Ierom reporteth what Paula did in Ierusalem For which he that well considereth what it was may find more cause to commend her zeale then to like of her actions She went into the Sepulcher and kist the stone of his resurrection which the Angell had remoued from the doore of the Tombe The place of his bodie where the Lord had lien as if she had thirsted for the desired waters she lickt with her faithfull tongue who sees not more zeale then knowledge in this behauiour Neither Pâ—ter nor Iohn nor any of the Disciples are reported to haue done any such thing though they came to the graue by and by after our Sauiours resurrection Was she more deuout no but more ignorant and passionat This testimony of Basil is no where to be found but in this Councell which was packed for the nonst to confirme Idolatrous Image worshippers I shewed the like practise of the Councell before concerning other writers Now for a conclusion of this point I will briefly note the beginning of Images among the Christians and speake a little of that seauenth Councell so often alleadged against vs. The first vse of any Images after our Sauiours ascension was brought in by Simon the Sorcerer who was also the first and principall Heretik Of whom Theodoret and Austin write that he gaue his owne and his strumpet Selenes Images to his followers to be worshipped by them After him one Marcellina of the sect as it is said of the Carpocratians worshipped the Images of Iesus Paul Homer and Pythagoras The Gnosticks presently after her worshipped the Images of Christ and are condemned for it by Irenaeus They haue painted Images saith Epiphanius of Carpocrates and the Gnosticks which they say are the Images of Iesus and that they were made vnder Pontius Pilate while our Sauiour liued but they keepe these Images secret yet as he obserueth they worshipped those Images Amongst true Christians the beginning of Images may wel be thought to haue bin such as Eusebius guesseth it was namely an imitation of the Gentiles who vsed to make and keepe the Images of them by whom they had receiued any speciall good Yea the Gentiles being newly conuerted could not by and by be weaned from all vse of Images more then from other superstitions It was necessary saith Tertullian in former times to yeeld many things to the Christians who for the most part were conuerted from Paganisme to religion when they were old and so could hardlie leaue those things to which all their life time they had bin accustomed But as yet they had no Churches nor vse of Images in their assemblies That seemes to haue growen by the painting of the histories of Martyrs in tables and setting them vp in Churches Which aduantage the Deuill that alwaies watcheth his oportunitie to bring in Idolatry by little and little greedilie apprehended and followed and at the last brought to such a height that the Emperour Leo the third surnamed Isaurius was faine to call a Councell at Constantinople about the yeere 729. wherein it was decreed that the Images should be pulled downe This Gregorie the second Bishop of Rome who some 13. yeeres before had caused Images to be allowed in a Councell at Rome tooke very hainously and so much the rather because the Emperour had required obedience of the Latin Church to the decrees past in that Councell at Constantinople But the Bishop was so farre from yeelding obedience that he tooke this commandement of the Emperour as an occasion to withdraw his allegeance from his Soueraigne and seized into his hands all the authoritie that was yet remaining to the Empire in Italie This contention after the death of Leo grew more hot in so much that his sonne Constantine Copronymus to make some good end of the matter assembled another Councell at Constantinople about the yeere 755. which he calleth the seauenth general Councel where there were present 308. Bishops and wherein Images were again condemned About some 34. yeeres after Irene daughter to a King of the Tartars and widow to the Emperour Leo the 4. a Pagan by birth and little better in religion during the nonage of her sonne Constantine called a Councell at Constantinople wherein a great number of Bishops maintained by the word of God that Images ought to bee abolished Which the Empresse perceiuing found meanes to break vp the Councill and afterwards appointed another again the next yeere at Nice in Bythinia wherein it was decreed that Images should bee worshipped and that Councill of Nice should be counted the seuenth generall Councell and not the other which had been held before at Constantinople against Images This is that seauenth Councell which our Papists so magnifie and it passeth vnder the name of that famous Councell of Nice wherein Arius was condemned euery man not knowing that this was a second Councell betwixt three and foure hundred yeere after the former But that all men may be the better able to iudge of this foresaid Councell let me propound the speeches of some of the Bishops on the behalfe of Images I receiue and embrace honorablie saith Constantine Bishop of Constans in Cyprus holy and reuerend Images according to the seruice of adoration which I performe to the Consubstantiall and life giuing Trinitie And them that do not so thinke nor glorifie them I separate from the Catholike and Apostolicall Church and lay them vnder the Cursse and ioyne them with such as haue denied the Incarnation of Christ our God for our saluation The holy Father hath said plainly that the Image of the King is called the King and yet there are not two Kings so that it is cleere that he which shall adore the Image and say it is Christ sinnes not The most holy Patriarke Tharasius said let vs obserue that the old Scripture â—ad signes and that out of it the new hathtaken Cherubins of glorie shaddowing the propitiatory The holie Synode answered very well Sir so is the truth The most holy Patriarke said if the old Scripture had Cherubins shadowing the Propitiatorie we also will haue the Images of Iesus Christ and of the holy mother of God and of the Saints shadowing our Altars Theodosius Bishop of Ancyra said whatsoeuer things are written are written for our learning therfore the holy Images and Pictures grauen and painted are painted and set vp for our learning zeale and example Elias the most holy Bishop of Creet said According
But to answere plainly to your false allegation of Ieromes authoritie what an indignitie were it to the Maiestie of God that the assurance of his presence should be the more worshipped because of the Cherubins and pictures of Angels that were erected at the ends of it which also with the Arke it selfe were hid from all mens sight in the Holie of Holies Ierome meaneth that those things made the people conceiue more reuerently of that Holie of Holies and strooke them with a kind of awe speaker D. B. P. To this vve may ioyne that of S. Paul that Jacob by faith adored the top of his sonne Iosephs rod so doth the Greeke text of S. Paul say as Erasmus also translateth it The Protestants mangle the text pitifully to auoyde the place see the Annotations of Rhemes Testament speaker A. W. The text in the Greeke is according to your owne editions worship vpon the top of his owne staffe So doth your Interlinear read it So Arias Montanus Erasmus notes the error of your old translator in leauing out the preposition ☠which hee himselfe interpreteth ad as it were to ward the top The Syriak translateth as we do vpon the top of his staffe Pagnine thus he worshipped leaning vpon his staffe Vatablus keepeth the words of the old translation but he expoundeth them in this sort Adored that is saith Vatablus giue thankes The top of his staffe 〈◊〉 toward the top of his staffe that is Leaning vpon his staffe for age Theodoret maketh the adoration ciuill to figure out the kingdome of Israel in the tribe of Ephraim Iacobs younger sonne Your Glosse saith he worshipped Christ by whom he had domination and a scepter of authoritie in Aegypt or the kingdome of Christ which in that was sigured to be and to come among the Gentiles Another glosse saith directly he worshipped God presently vpon his sonne Ioseph swearing Lyra layeth out the matter more largely and plainly after this manner Iacob saith Lyra beleeued that Christ should be buried and rise againe in the Land of promise therefore he made Ioseph sweare that he would cause his body to be carried thither After he had sworne he worshipped God with thankes turning himselfe towards the beds head according to the translation of S. Ierome as it appeareth Genes 47. The 70. translate as it is in this place and both are true For he worshipped towards the beds head which stood west toward which part the Iewes doe worship and because he was old he had a staffe vpon the top whereof he leaned when he gaue thankes to God Therefore we must not conceiue that he worshipped the top of the Scepter or staffe but he worshipped God leaning vpon the staffe So doth Theophylact expound it Leaning and resting vpon his staffe for age Though he doth also follow the exposition of Chrysostome concerning the kingdome of Israel in the Tribe of Ephraim The same exposition bringeth Occumenius the Greeke Scholiast out of Photius vpon the top of his staffe that is being now old the same bring Lombard Thomas and Caietan It is strange that a man professing knowledge should speak so vntruly Do we mangle the text pittifully or rather do not you slaunder vs shamefully we neither take away nor alter any word syllable letter or accent in the text but leauing that whole onlie adde two words in a different letter to make the meaning more plaine and that by Augustines authority as your Rhemists confesse and as I haue shewed with the allowance of your best Interpreters for both the words I will conclude with that of Ierome in this place saith he some faine without cause that Iacob worshipped the top of Iosephs Scepter because forsooth honouring his son he honoured his power But in the Hebrew it is farre otherwise And Israel worshipped saith the Hebrew toward his beds head namely because after his sonne had sworne to him being assured of the thing he had requested he worshipped God ouer against his beds head speaker W. P. Obiect II. Exod. 3. 5. God said to Moses Stand a farre off and put off thy shooes for the place is holy Now if holy places must bee reuerenced then much more holy images as the crosse of Christ and such like Ans. God commanded the ceremonie of putting off the shooes that hee might thereby strike Moses with a religious reuerence not of the place but of his owne Maiestie whose presence made the place holy Let them shew the like warrant for images speaker D. B. P. The second reason is taken out of Exodus 3. Where God said to Moses Put off thy shoes for the place where thou standest is holy Novv if places be holy and to be reuerenced by reason of the presence of Angels vvhy not asvvâ—ll the Image that representeth an Angell or some Saint vvhich is equall to Angels Master Perkins his ansvvere rather confirmeth than solueth this argument for he saith that the Ceremonie of putting off his shoes vvas commaunded to strike Moses vvith a religious reuerence not of the place but of the person there present vvhich vvas not God but an Angell as the text there expresseth The place then being holy required the reuerend respect of putting off his shoes and that reuerence done to the place stroke Moses vvith a religious reuerence of the Angelspeaking in the person of God euen so holy pictures being first duely reuerenced doe strike men vvith a religious regard of the Saint represented speaker A. W. Your second reason is thus framed If places be holy and to be reuerenced by reason of the presence of Angels why not aswell the Image that represents an Angell or some Saint which is equall to an Angell But places are holy and to be reuerenced by reason of the presence of Angels Therefore the Image that represents an Angell or some Saint equall to an Angell is holie and to be reuerenced I deny your whole Antecedent and first the consequence of your proposition Because although we should grant that some place were holy because of the presence of the Angels yet would it not follow that therfore Images are holy where there is no presence of an Angell For all your consecrating and coniuring of Images cannot make any Angel or Saint to afford his presence in them Your assumption is false There is no holines in places because of the presence of Angels as may appeare by the Scriptures where their apparitions are described no action of reuerence at all being performed to the places of their presence In particular to your proofe M. Perkins answereth that this was done not because the place where Angels appeare is holy but vpon an especiall commandement of God to strike Moses with a reuerence of Gods Maiestie who was there present You reply first that God was not present there but an Angell I answere that God was there