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A45325 Qvakers principles quaking, or, Pretended light proved darkness, and perfections found to be greatest imperfections in an answer to a written paper, subscribed with the name of Thomas Holme, and scattered through the country about Liverpool and Lancashire / modestly propounded by Ralph Hall ... Hall, Ralph. 1656 (1656) Wing H423; ESTC R39227 32,660 37

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will conclude that if it please God to grant me my request at this point there will be joy not only in Heaven at your return Luke 15.7 but matter of praise and glory to God in the Soul of him that will not cease to pray for you though some of you lately professed he durst not pray for me because I was as he said Gods enemy but I am confident sometimes he and I professed our friendship with God and our love to God both with one joynt consent I bless God I am the same still and if he be not let him seriously consider which of us are fallen from our own stedfastness 2 Pet. 3.17 and so declared our selves to be Gods enemy And now I shall proceed to the Second Particular that I observed in your Paper viz. The persons to whom it was directed namely to the Priests as you are pleased to call them and the people in and about Walton and Liverpool and especially written for the sake of the simple As to the name Priest I should not be troubled at it at all were it not given by you to the Ministers of the Gospel as a brand of reproach for indeed I finde it to be one of those honourable Titles that God hath given to the dispencers of his Word and Ordinances in all Ages They are sometimes called the Lords Priests Exod. 19.6 2 Chron. 6.41 sometimes the Lords Pastors Ier. 3.15 sometimes the Lords Shepherds Cant. 1.8 sometimes the Watchmen of Israel Ezek. 3.17 Isa. 61.6 and many other honourable Titles God is pleased to put upon his Priests that hee cloathes with his Righteousness Psal. 132.16 and appoints to wait at his Altars 1 Cor. 9.13 But you will say These are legal Titles given under the Law but we are not under the Law but under Grace and the Gospel of grace To which I shall have occasion to speak more fully when I come to the subject matter of your Paper I shall only say in this Section with a learned man whose Works I lately saw that the cause why many are so ignorant of Christ and his Apostles is because they are no better acquainted with Moses and Aaron But if we look into the Gospel as well as the Law we shall finde no less honourable Titles given to the Ministers of the Gospel than of old time was given to the dispencers of the Law we finde a Catalogue of them in Ephes. 4.11 they are there called Apostles Prophets Evangelists Pastors and Teachers and though their names be here differently expressed yet their honourable Work is the same viz. for the perfecting of the Saints for the work of the Ministry for the edifying of the Body of Christ which is the Church And here is one thing observable viz. That God is pleased both under the Law and under the Gospel to give one and the same name to the Dispencers of his Word and Ordinances I mean Pastors if we compare this Ephes. 4.11 with Jer. 3.15 and not only in point of name but office also as shall by the assistance of God further appear in the next Section But further they are called Christs Disciples Joh. 13.5 the Preachers of the Gospel Matth. 16.15 2 Cor. 4.5 and with which I will conclude they are called the Lords Embassadours 2 Cor. 5.20 nay the Lord gives them the honourable title of Angels Rev. 3.1 c. These things considered may we not conclude with our Saviours own words He that heareth you heareth me and he that despiseth you despiseth me and he that despiseth me despiseth him that sent me Luke 10.16 from which sentence the Lord keep me and the whole Israel of God I have now for brevities sake done with one of the Parties to whom you direct your Paper viz. the Priests as you call them and for the People I confess I have not had opportunity to speak with many of them since I saw your Paper but as many of them as I have had any conference with about it I assure you the greatest number of them looked upon your Paper as such an empty inconsiderate Peece that they concluded it was not worthy answering yet as you say it was written for the sake of the simple I assure you it is for their sakes that are endued with the humble simplicity that is in Christ that I undertook this present answer And now come we to the subject matter of your Paper which Centers it self in these two things 1. Concerning the lawfulness or unlawfulness of giving and receiving of Tythes and 2. Concerning perfect here in the body or whilst we continue in the body To the First of these viz. concerning Tythes I would gladly know whether you will acknowledge the whole Scripture to be the Word of God or no I mean the whole Bible the Old Testament and the New if you will acknowledge the whole I shall need say no more for the lawfulness of giving and receiving of Tythes than you have said against the lawfulness thereof for you have cited several Scriptures that make full for them as that in Deut. 14.22 23. compared with Mal. 3.8 10. in that of Deuteronomy the Lord takes care and giveth charge not only concerning the bringing in of Tythes but for the true bringing in of them as though the Lord were resolved not to abate them any thing of that proportion that he had commanded not only in relation to the quantity but quality also so at the twenty third verse Thou shalt eat before the Lord thy God in the place that the Lord shall chuse to place his Name there not only the tythe of thy Corn but of thy Wine and of thine Oyl and of the firstlings of thy Flocks and of thy Herds c. and the reason of all is added viz. That thou maist learn to fear the Lord thy God not only during this year and the next c. but always nay the Lord takes care as I may say concerning such excuses as some like your selves might make against the punctuality of this performance in relation to the distance of the place that the Lord should chuse from the place of some of the peoples residence Some of the people might say I hope I may be excused alas the way is too farre and the burthen that I am to bear is too heavie for me to carry so long a journey may not I be dispenced with No saith the Lord if the burthen be too heavie and the journey too long then shalt thou in such a case turn thy Tythes into Mony and shalt bring thy due proportion in Mony in thy hand As if the Lord had said I will not abate thee any thing neither will I be put off with any excuses or pretences that thou canst make but that which I require thou shalt truly perform but you will say this is Law why then let us take a step further and see what the Prophets say to it and here again you have answered your selves Mat. 3.8