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A94737 Romanism discussed, or, An answer to the nine first articles of H.T. his Manual of controversies. Whereby is manifested, that H.T. hath not (as he pretends) clearly demonstrated the truth of the Roman religion by him falsly called Catholick, by texts of holy scripture, councils of all ages, Fathers of the first five hundred years, common sense, and experience, nor fully answered the principal objections of protestants, whom he unjustly terms sectaries. By John Tombes, B.D. And commended to the world by Mr. Richard Baxter. Tombes, John, 1603?-1676. 1660 (1660) Wing T1815; Thomason E1051_1; ESTC R208181 280,496 251

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indeed_o but_o he_o only_o who_o hear_v the_o pope_n speak_v by_o word_n of_o mouth_n from_o his_o chair_n or_o a_o council_n approve_v by_o he_o speak_v with_o audible_a voice_n the_o read_n of_o the_o trent_n canon_n or_o the_o pope_n bull_n be_v not_o sufficient_a to_o beget_v faith_n much_o less_o the_o hear_n a_o priest_n or_o prelate_n tell_v we_o their_o determination_n by_o which_o it_o may_v appear_v that_o if_o h._n t._n his_o dictate_v hold_v then_o there_o be_v neither_o church_n nor_o faith_n among_o the_o great_a part_n of_o papist_n 9_o all_o this_o discourse_n be_v idle_a because_o papist_n themselves_o do_v grant_v in_o effect_n the_o distinction_n he_o except_v against_o and_o his_o own_o word_n do_v in_o a_o manner_n confess_v it_o be_v right_a as_o the_o objector_n explain_v it_o and_o therefore_o in_o this_o be_v but_o a_o mere_a humour_n of_o quarrel_v as_o have_v a_o mind_n to_o say_v somewhat_o against_o mr._n chillingworth_n and_o dr._n potter_n the_o lord_n 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double_a sense_n when_o they_o perceive_v the_o fraud_n lament_v and_o renounce_v the_o fact_n i_o reply_v h._n t._n his_o own_o word_n confirm_v the_o objection_n for_o 1._o if_o the_o father_n be_v delude_v by_o the_o arian_n than_o they_o be_v not_o infallible_a and_o so_o a_o general_a council_n approve_v by_o the_o pope_n may_v err_v in_o a_o main_a point_n of_o faith_n 2._o if_o that_o council_n do_v not_o define_v arianism_n how_o be_v they_o delude_v wherein_o be_v the_o fraud_n but_o in_o that_o the_o word_n be_v of_o double_a sense_n yet_o indeed_o decree_v arian_n doctrine_n what_o need_v they_o lament_v or_o renounce_v the_o fact_n if_o it_o be_v not_o so_o why_o do_v austin_n l._n 3._o contra_fw-la maximinum_n c._n 14._o oppose_v that_o council_n to_o that_o of_o nice_n and_o maximinus_n allege_v it_o for_o himself_o if_o it_o do_v not_o decree_n arianism_n why_o do_v ruffinus_n socrates_n basil_n cite_v by_o bellarm_n l._n 1._o de_fw-fr council_n c._n 6._o reject_v it_o 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maccabee_n to_o be_v canonical_a l._n 19_o moral_a c._n 17._o as_o for_o the_o three_o synod_n of_o carthage_n it_o be_v not_o a_o ecumenical_a synod_n and_o it_o be_v over_o balance_v by_o the_o synod_n of_o laodicea_n before_o it_o who_o omit_v they_o and_o if_o the_o ancient_n term_v the_o apocryphal_a book_n canonical_a or_o divine_a they_o be_v to_o be_v understand_v according_a to_o ruffinus_n his_o explication_n in_o his_o exposition_n on_o the_o creed_n and_o other_o that_o they_o be_v canonical_a in_o a_o sort_n as_o be_v read_v in_o the_o church_n by_o reason_n of_o some_o history_n or_o moral_a sentence_n but_o not_o so_o as_o that_o they_o be_v bring_v to_o confirm_v the_o authority_n of_o faith_n by_o they_o h._n t._n further_o say_v ob._n the_o father_n be_v err_v some_o in_o one_o thing_n some_o in_o another_o answ_n a_o part_n i_o grant_v all_o together_o speak_v of_o any_o one_o age_n i_o deny_v and_o they_o all_o submit_v to_o the_o church_n and_o so_o do_v likewise_o 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point_n as_o that_o of_o the_o millenary_a opinion_n the_o soul_n not_o see_v god_n till_o the_o day_n of_o judgement_n etc._n etc._n 2._o that_o all_o the_o father_n do_v not_o submit_v to_o the_o church_n of_o rome_n be_v manifest_a by_o the_o asian_a bishop_n opposition_n to_o victor_n about_o easter_n to_o stephen_n about_o rebaptisation_n by_o cyprian_a and_o other_o to_o boniface_n zozimus_n and_o celestin_n about_o appeal_n from_o africa_n to_o rome_n by_o aurelius_n augustinus_n and_o a_o whole_a council_n 3._o that_o the_o schoolman_n differ_v in_o point_n of_o faith_n define_v be_v manifest_a in_o peter_n lombard_n l._n 1._o send_v do_v 17._o who_o hold_v the_o holy_a ghost_n to_o be_v the_o charity_n whereby_o we_o love_v god_n and_o the_o dissent_n from_o he_o in_o that_o point_n the_o difference_n about_o the_o pope_n authority_n above_o a_o council_n power_n to_o absolve_v subject_n from_o the_o oath_n of_o allegiance_n certainty_n of_o faith_n concern_v a_o man_n own_o justification_n god_n predetermination_n of_o man_n will_n and_o many_o more_o yet_o controvert_v between_o dominican_n and_o jesuit_n jansenist_n and_o molinist_n 4._o all_o submit_v not_o to_o the_o pope_n but_o some_o appeal_n from_o he_o to_o a_o council_n other_o by_o withstand_v in_o dispute_n and_o otherwise_o decline_v his_o sentence_n in_o their_o cause_n of_o which_o the_o opposition_n against_o pope_n paul_n the_o five_o his_o interdict_v by_o the_o republic_n of_o venice_n about_o their_o power_n over_o ecclesiastic_n be_v a_o famous_a instance_n evident_o show_v that_o all_o that_o live_v in_o communion_n with_o the_o see_v of_o rome_n acknowledge_v not_o such_o a_o supremacy_n and_o infallibility_n to_o it_o as_o the_o modern_a jesuit_n ascribe_v to_o it_o yet_o again_o say_v h._n t._n ob._n st._n augustin_n tell_v st._n hierom_n that_o he_o esteem_v none_o but_o the_o writer_n of_o the_o canonical_a book_n to_o have_v be_v infallible_a in_o all_o they_o write_v and_o not_o to_o err_v in_o any_o thing_n answ_n neither_o do_v we_o we_o esteem_v not_o the_o writer_n of_o council_n infallible_a in_o all_o they_o write_v nor_o yet_o council_n themselves_o but_o only_o in_o the_o ecumenical_a decree_n or_o definition_n of_o faith_n i_o reply_v augustin_n epist_n 19_o to_o hierom_n do_v not_o only_o say_v thus_o i_o confess_v to_o thy_o charity_n that_o i_o have_v learned_a to_o give_v this_o reverence_n and_o honour_n only_o to_o those_o book_n of_o scripture_n which_o be_v now_o call_v canonical_a that_o i_o do_v most_o firm_o believe_v no_o author_n of_o they_o to_o have_v err_v any_o thing_n in_o writing_n but_o he_o add_v also_o but_o i_o so_o read_v other_o that_o how_o much_o soever_o they_o excel_v in_o holiness_n and_o doctrine_n i_o do_v not_o think_v it_o true_a because_o they_o have_v so_o think_v but_o because_o they_o can_v persuade_v i_o either_o by_o those_o canonical_a author_n or_o by_o probable_a reason_n that_o it_o abhor_v not_o 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