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A15697 The fore-runner of Bels dovvnefall wherin, is breifely answered his braggnig [sic] offer of disputation, and insolent late challenge: the particularties [sic] of the confutation of his bookes, shortly by goddes grace to be published, are mentioned: with à breife answere, to his crakinge and calumnious confutinge of papistes by papistes them selues: and lastly à taste. Giuen of his rare pretended sinceritye, with som few examples. Woodward, Philip, ca. 1557-1610.; Parsons, Robert, 1546-1610, attributed name. 1605 (1605) STC 25972.5; ESTC S114156 24,220 62

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Preist by vertu of the Popes dispensation may lawfully and effectualy minister their Sacrament of Confirmation We vvillingly graunt it as being the moste receiued and common opinion vvhat of all this But this opinion saith he is stoutly impugned by other great papistes to witt Bonauentura Alphonsus Durandus Scotus Maior c. Be it so what then such dissention as this is without any violation of faith at all O saith he what gteater and more important dissention can be then this for Confirmation is a Sacrament with the Papists If he knewe not and be content to learne I wil teach him A far greater dissention it were euen in this verie point of Confirmation if some hould it to be à Sacrament and others did denie it the disagreemēt was of the extraordinary minister of the Sacrament which is no such important matter as he would inforce of the Sacrament it self they made no question doe not we knowe that the Protestants them selues allowe and prescribe the signe of the crosse in Baptisme and that the Puritanes detest it that they in necessitie permitt lay people to baptise and these thinke it such a prophanation of that sacred misterie that they had rather suffer infants to die without baptisme so great a zeale they haue to pack them to hell warde Should I come vpon him for this varitie and crie out after this manner what greater and more important dissention can be then this for Baptisme is a Sacrament with them would he not condemne me for a notable wrangler seinge they contend not whether Baptisme be a Sacrament or no but obout other questions to vvitt of a certaine ceremonie and the extraordinary minister which they make no great account of Let him then queitly take him self by the sleeue and see whether the measure will not serue and much better to make for his ministershipp a liuery of the same cloath Were the dissentions in the Protestants congregation of no more fundamentall points then ours bee it should not daily be shaken with such terrible earthquakes and to the great disgrace of a new timbered gospell for lack of good worke manshipp be in daunger of fallinge but alas they are continually brawling like beggars and lie lugginge together by the eares about the verie sinnowes and soule of their religion in endles quarrells and contentions Luther and Zwinglins are proclaimed by M. Iewell that Patriarchal challenger for moste excellent men sent of god to giue light to the world and yet did Luther defend till death the true reall and substātiall presence of Christes bodie in the Sacrament giueinge his black blessinge to all those that taught otherwise Zwinglius for all that hauinge the spiritt no lesse then Luther vtterly denied the reall presence contemninge his curse and disdayninge to followe the light of his lanterne such svveete agreement there vvas betvvixt these tvvo moste excellent men sent of god Can Bell deny this to be true or that this point of religion is materiall as vpon vvhich dependeth saluation or damnation I knovve him to be a braue minded man and one that dare venture as far for the credit of the gospell as an other Yet I suppose he vvill neuer stand vpon any tearmes but queitly admitt both the one and the other for knovven truthes and then must I be so boulde as to demaunde hovv he can defend one of these heauenly prophetes from being an heretike and damnable doctor and so vvith the candle of false doctrine to haue shevven his follovvers the vvay to euerlastinge darknes The minister is quick sighted to behould a mote in our eie but he cannot see a beame in his ovvne May vve not iustly say to him vvith our Sauiour Hipocrite cast out first the beame out of thine owne eie and then shalt thou see to cast out the mote of thy brothers eie To leaue Germanie and speake of the professors of our owne contrie Doe not the Protestants thinke the dignitie superiority of Bishopps and Archbishopps agreable to gods vvord and yet doe the Puritanes in the name of the lorde by their champion Martin Mar-prelat and his mutinous make bates that band vnder his colors crie out as Thomas Rogers saith and it is no councell to any that their callinge is vnlawfull that they be ministers of Antechrist worse then friars and monkes deuiles bishoppes and diuelles incarnate netheir as I suppose will he say that this is a triflinge question for feare of scandalizinge litle ones Aerius of vvhom vve spake before vvas condemned of heresie for equallinge Preistes vvith Bishopps Could Bell haue the luck to finger an Ouerseer ship to vse his ovvne phrase that he may the better knovve my meaninge then vvere the matter cock sure and a flatt heresie indeede to mainteine any such assertion mary till then great vvisdome to proceede vvith deliberation to runne vvith the hare hould vvith the hounde flatter on the one side and faune on the other Can he not reade ridles Dauns est non Oedipus By the next post he shall knowe more of my meaninge in the meane time let him feede in his hart vpon this by faith and be thankfull Bel pretendeth great sinceritye like à true Apostle and yet like à false Apostata vseth it not with some few exsamples of his malitious and corrupt manner of proceedinge CHAP. V. VVHere deceipt is intēded there the Protestacion of sincerity vpright dealinge and a tender conscience as a necessary preparation must be pretended for this is the goulden baite to angle ignorant soules and the cōmon cloake of coseninge companions Iuglers tuck vp their sleeues open their handes and make shew of the plainest dealinge in the worlde False Prophetts put on sheepes cloathinge and the deuill transformeth him self into an Angell of light Iesabell proclaimed afast when she sought the blood of innocent Naboth and the Aposte assureth vs that certaine false teachers and belly gods did by Sweete speeches and benedictions seduce the hartes of innocents Bell as though he were made of no other elements then sincere dealinge and had not so much as the skill to foist in a lie or to mangle and mayme a sentence speaketh often of conscience and honest proceedinge and of his owne free motion and liberality entereth into a bande of subscribinge and forfaiture of his creditt if he can be conuinced of the conrrarie In the epistle of his Downefall To all englishe Iesuites seminary preistes c. thus he writeth In my firste booke published in the yeare 1593. I premised to yeelde if you could conuince me either to haue alleadged any writer corruptly or to haue quoted any place guylefullie or to haue charged any author falesly Yea and in the same place he addeth thath he will neuer require creditt at the readers hand ether in that booke or any other to be published hereafter if any such thinge can be proued against him Vpon this foundation dependeth all the reputation of his workes and
that litle creditt which he hath gotten with his simple followers for if he be such a sincere writer as he protesteth and so consideratiue and respectiue in the peninge of his bookes that no suspicion of misreportinge or corruption can be iustlie fastned vpon him then doth it euidently followe that we haue greate dissentions in matters of faith and that our Doctors be the bane of Catholicke doctrine and then no marueil if he make challenge vpon challenge and remayne vnanswered when as not only our enimies but also those that we take for our frendes and relye vpon stande in open feilde againste vs and haue as it were sworne our destruction But if on the contrary plaine euidence shall conuince that he maketh no scruple of lyinge no conscience of falsification is not his hopocritical sanctitie double iniquitie and Bel proued the sonne of Belial and is not the maine piller that beareth vp al his braue buildinge and glorious turretts ouerthrowen and him self with his applaudinge mates in the midest of their pastime crushed and stroken dead as the insultinge Philistians were by the seruant of god Sampson whether this be so or no remayneth now breifly to be handled to iustifie mine accusation I will runn ouer afew passages of his late challenge because that is of latest date and therfore of al likelyhoode moste grateful to the reader of whom I desier not any extraordinarie fauour but that which none can denie to be indifferent and reasonable and that is as vpon my bare wordes I would not haue him to discredit Bel and beleeue me for that sauoured either of partialitie or of indiscreet kinde of proceedinge so nether vpon his affirmation to condemne vs and to commend him for that were also opposite to all equitie but as they haue longe lent the plantife one eare so now a litle to afforde the defendant the other and seriouslie to to examine our depositions and take some panies to trie the truth of our relations and then a gods name let them thinke as the very force of proofes and allegations shal induce them and freely speake what they thinke and so haue a crashe at his challenginge Downefall I. PAg. 40. Thus he cometh ouer the Pope Antonius quoth he a man of no smale creditt for he was an Archbishop of the Popish stampe and by the Pope reported for a Saint hath these wordes Reperiturtamen Martinus quintus dispensasse cum quodam qui contraxerat consummauerit matrimonium cum quadam eius germana Neuerthelet it is knowen that Pope Martin the fift did dispence with one who had contracted and consummated matrimonie with his owne natural and fulsister of the same father and same mother fot so much the word Germana doth import Behould here gentle reader the excellency of holy Poperie and if thou desierest more of such melodie thou maiest finde it in my booke of Motiues but this is here a sufficient antepast for all our English Iesuites and Iesuited popelinges none are so ignorant but they knowe that only god can giue licence to marrie a mans owne natural sister This place he bringeth to proue as his wordes goinge before import and these now cited insinuate as much that te Pope taketh vpon him that power which is proper to god alone and the matter as he handleth it seemeth so odious that some no question condemne vs highlie vpon his reporte and my self was since the cominge forth of his booke assaulted with this very question so markeable it is in eueri mans eie But as it is nothinge preiudicial to the Catholike faith were it true so beinge moste false it cannot but launce the ministers reputation and goare the very intralles of his best creditt First therfor I say that it is nothinge preiudicial to the catholike faith were it true For we defend not al the particular factes of any though Popes we knowe that they may erre either by wronge informacion yea or of wilful malice Their vniust actions for which they must render account to god hurte them selues and their owne soules catholike religion no reason it is they should hurt though weaklinges may be scandalized Glorious S. Augustin hauing reckned vp al the bishopps of Rome from S. Peter to Anastatius thereby to cōfounde the Donatist heretikes because as he saith In this order of succession there is none founde a Donatist bishop straight wayes to stop the mouthes of any that leapinge from faith to manners might truly or falselie haue obiected the bad life or fact of some Pope he addeth these wordes for a salue If in these times any traitor should haue crept into that order of Bishopps which is deriued from Peter him selfe euen to Anastasius who now sitteth in the same chaire it should haue bin no preiudice to the church and innocent christians for whom our lord prouiding said whatsoeuer they shal say doe yee but doe not those thinges which theye doe for they say and doe not A certaine Prelats daughter in this realme and wel affected to the worde by the countenance and assistance of hir father turnd of hir olde husbād a grasing and betooke hir selfe to à new Is Bel content that this detestable fact should disgrace their religion or that vpon this we infer that Superintendent to haue taken vpon him the power proper to god alone or rather more seing god cannot geue leaue to a woman to haue two husbandes neither can any such president be showen but of brothers that married their sisters we haue in Adams children Yf not because he may truly say that such exorbitant actions proceede not infallibly or vsually from any such luciferian conceit but rather from passion or malice which doe not seldome peruert the iudgment of men in authoritie and make them runn headlonge in to grosse errors then might he very wel haue spared his winde and odious declamation against Martin the fifth I would not here wishe him to come to fiercely vpon me for that I touch the matter so lightlie and threaten me the bastinado for standeringe an Ouerseear of the gospel for if he be so liuely and pert let him not thinke but that I wil stand vpon my lawful defence and be readie to entertaine him with Stafford law and by S. Chad that good Bishopp of Lincolne I hope to make my partie good Secondly I tell him that his lippes haue lashed out to lustilie and that he hath wickedly slaundred Pope Martin and moste perfidiously corrupted Antonius The very title of the chapter might haue taught him that he was in error or at least haue giuen him a greater caueat better to consider the matter for it is De affinitate of affinitie and therfore had the Pope giuen one licence to marry his owne natural sister he had dispensed in consanguinitie and so nothinge fittinge the matter intreated of in that chapter But what doe I speake of error when as monstrons malice and extremitie of hatred againste the church and Sea Apostolicke
nere allied to the rineged minister of Baschall then Sathan is to the diuile These are vaine shiftes idle vagaries a cuninge wheelinge from the matter cries out Sir Thomas To the point shew the foresaid wordes or els E. O. remaineth cōuicted of notorious lyinge and I in the back house ditch for takinge his parte seeing he is so short and so cutted to take away all cauilles and to chamber the clapper of his runinge red rag I tell him that for the wordes wherewith Bell is chardged two places of his Surueye are quoted to witt pag. 228. and 230. and in the first quotation of 228. be those wordes found which he admitteth and in the next of 230. is that sentence registred which he denieth vtterlie euer to haue spoken for reuellinge at Siricius for callinge not holie wedlocke as he saith he must take an heare from his beard which had he done so often as he hath ouerreached he had bin a balde minister longe since but the filthie yoakinge and pretensed mariage of Preistes the pollution of carnall concupiscence he exclameth against him in this manner I add hereunto that this is the flatt doctrine of the diuele and S. Paul is my verie witnes herein I report me now to his deuoted dependants whether his witts were at home when he medled with such hot and dangerous edge tooles as haue pitifully hurt and scaled his owne fingers or what discretion shame or modestie he had to pursue his aduersarie with so full mouth and strong a crie of wordes in vvhich the diuele also had his part so vainlie to vaunt of his sincere proceedinge so desperatly to deny any of these vvordes taught the flatt doctrine of the diuele to be in the place quoted and confidently to chardge his aduerfarie vvith a notorious lye vvhen he had more reason to haue commanded his tounge silence seeing it hath found out his ovvne confusion neuer to haue preached of sinceritie vvhen he plaide the cunny catchinge companion nor euer to haue called an other in question for lyinge him selfe in that very place not only venturinge vpon an vntruth but also in that verie same thinge which as a notorious lye he obiecteth to an other As for S. Paul where he vvould haue his vvitnes he may talke is pleasure and say vvhat he list but he may sooner spend all his pensions in Sub-penas then euer bringe that blessed Apostle to depose in his side for the lawfull mariage of vowed Preistes and religious persons The testimonie of their owne corrupt conscience yea and of their cōcupiscence they may haue the authoritie of any Apostle or authenticall auncient writer they are neuer able to produce And thus much breiflie for a sample cutt of as it were from the mayne webbe intended No difficultie had it beene to haue ranged more plentifully after the same maner both in these and other his bookes But my purpose was only at this time to giue a tast not to furnishe a formall bankett these few passages shall I hope for this present giue the gentle reader desierous of truth sufficient content being as it were the two messengers Chusy and Achimaas to bring newes of the ouerthrowe of this glorious Absalon who hath as shamefully apostared from his vocation and waged war against his mother the church as euer did that graceles impe reuolte from his naturall alleigaunce and tooke armes against his father the kinge the mayne battayle heauenlie grace asistinge me shall with conuenient speede followe after God that willeth not the death of a sinner put into the hartes of all such Protestaunts as loue truth and detest falshoode desier saluation with Christ and his Sanites and tremble at eternall damnation with the diuele and his angelles carefully to seeke for the knowledg of the pure auncient and Aposto like faith Zealously when it is found to keepe and imbrace it and constantly to liue and dye in the profession of the same B. C. FINIS Faire and soft for dashing what will this man be in the fight that is so hot and eager before he is yet entred the f●elde S. Epiphanius haeres 75. and S. Austen haeres 53. Se S Hierō contra Vigilantium Ciril 6. cōtra Iulian Cedrenus in Heraclio S. Alcoranus Mahumet cap. 15. 16. Matt. ●3 v. s Enuche Psalm 130. v. 2. In the preface speciall and pag. 35. and 36. To the Seminary Preists in vvisbich castle c. Pag. 57. and 65. pag. 80. Psalm 111. v. 9. In the speciall preface of his Motiues In the epistles dedicatory of his Motiues and Suruey 2. Reg. 15. v. 16. In his Counterblast pag. 45. pag 44. pag. 49. Ierem. 37. v. 18. pag. 45. Pag. 45. In his suruey to the christiā reader Mat. 26 v. 73. Num. 25. 2. Reg. 15. v. 34. e● cap 17. v. 15. Mat. 24 v. 32. Sap. 8. v. 1. pag. 18. pag. 7 ● Chap. 8 artic 12. In the former place In his Apologie of the Church of Englands Mat. 7. v. s. In his sermon printed by Iohn Windet 1590. pag. 13. Suruey Pag. 516. Goulden Ballance pag. 31. Mat. 7. v 15. 2. Cor. 11. v. 14. 3. Reg. ●1 v. 9. Rō 16. v. 18. Motiues 18. Iudg. 16. v. 30. 3. Part. tit 1. cap. 11 prop● finem Epist. 165. ad generosum Mat. 23. v. 3. 3. part tit 1. cap. 11. ss 1. Aug. lib. 1. Retract cap. 13. pag. 13. Aug. Retract lib. 1. cap. 15. pag. 16. In 2 lib. Sent. pag. 130. Loe the Frier granteth that al the holi● fathers are a gainst the Papists Suruey pag. 487. Genebrardus in Chrō Anni Christi 32. De verbis Apostoli Sermo 18. De verbo Dei lib. 3. cap. 2. tom 1. Rom. 12. v. 5. Suruey pag. 193. Suruey pag. 228. 230. Suruey pag. 488. Epist. ad Marcellum adversus Mont●num But they are found 1. Reg. ●8