an auncient and vndoubted copy two Franciscan Friars came by authoritie and cancelled many shéetes thereof some in part some wholly and caused them to print other in their stéed not agréeing to the true bookes to Frelonius his great losse both of time and charges The like dealing b Ibid. he noteth of TurriaÌ„ that vnshamefast Iesuit in a Gréeke edition of the Canons of the Apostles In a print of Chrysostomes workes by Stelsius at Paris they haue razed out a most notable and vnanswerable place c Oper. imperf in Mat. hom 49. testifying that in the time of Antichrist there can be no warrant of true Christianitie nor other refuge for Christians being desirous to know the truth of faith but only the scriptures of God that they which would know cannot otherwise know which is the true Church of Christ but onely by the scriptures that Christ knowing the confusion that should be in the last daies did will that Christians desiring to haue assurance of true faith should flee to nothing else but to the scriptures because if they looke vnto other things they shall stumble and perish not knowing which is the true Church and hereby they shall light into the abhomination of desolatioÌ„ which standeth in the holy places of the church This whole place they haue falsly and treacherously left out And why because they take it to haue bin put in by an Arian hereticke as d Bellarm. to 1 cont 1. lib. 4. cap. 11. Bellarmine saith But what wretchednesse is there in this pretence when as they haue left in stil those places which make for the Arians indéed haue only taken away this which was not for the Arians turne but serued to confound themselues in a matter of controuersie betwixt them and vs. Thus e See Doct. Rainolds confer with â—aâ—t cha â— diuiâ— 2. Manutius and Pamelius in their editions of Cyprian the one at Rome the other at Anwerpe haue notoriously falsified a place in his Treatise de vnitate ecclesiae And whereas Cyprian expresly auoucheth by the vniuersall consent of all approued copies that the rest of the Apostles were the same that Peter was endued with equall fellowship both of honour and of power they haue foisted in other words importing a supremacy giuen by Christ vnto Peter and so make him in one sentence with one breath to speake contrary to himselfe Which impudencie and unpietie of theirs is so much the greater for that against the common consent and credit of so many copies both written and printed they would presume to alter the text of Cyprian vpon the warrant of two or thrée such copies as they themselues euidently saw knew to be corrupted so corrupted that they were faine euen for shame to varie in some things from that reading which they found in theÌ„ Thus haue the Spanish censurers vsed Bertram also as hath bene before shewed nipping him paring him where they haue thought good that he may not séeme too strong against their fantasticall conceit of TransubstantiatioÌ„ Now we may not wonder that they who haue bene thus bold with the auncient Fathers should presume a great deale further with later writers And therefore it néedeth not that I stand here to shew how they haue maimed the writings and censures of f Index Expurgat in castigaâ— operum August Tertul Hierony passim Beatus Rhenanus Ludouicus Viues Erasmus and other famous learned men whersoeuer they haue with great aduisement and iudgemeÌ„t noted the corruptions abuses of the Roomish church either in matters of maners or of doctrine This is that godly charitable dealing which the Answ commendeth and thinketh to be a very Christian and necessary course But were he not too much bewitched with the loue of a harlot he would not be so easily brought to flatter her in such vnhonest and hatefull doings Hereby it appeareth what confidence and hold Papists haue in the writings of the Fathers and that the Fathers if they were now aliue in the church of Rome and should speake as they haue written should be condemned for heretickes and their bookes carried to the fire to be burned with them P. Spence Sect. 36. YOu chop in the end to the matter of iustification A verie large race to course in To be short we say Faith iustifieth but that faith which worketh by loue We yeeld with S. Paule Not to him that worketh that is not to him that worketh with the respect of the law or by his free-will without the faith of Christ and his grace as the Iewes and Gentiles But to him that beleeueth in him that iustifieth the vngodly c. Here you see he talketh of one that not only beleeueth God or that God is but in God which is to haue faith hope charitie And that we require in iustifying a Here we haue we say and we say but no prâ—ofe for that which they say and so they may say what they list We say Faith without workes is dead and yet being dead it is a true faith neuerthelesse We say this faith so quickened and formed with charitie doth iustifie that is maketh of wicked iust and withall we say that good workes done by him that is iustified or else they could not be good do iustifie that is as S. Iames saith they make faith perfect By Abrahams workes his faith was made perfect And not only before men as you would haue S. Iames to meane thereby to elude this cleare testimony for he telleth you as for only faith the diuels beleeue and tremble and hee saith faith to bee a ioynt-worker with workes in our iustification which is not by faith only but by workes and they do make a man more iust or increase our iustice They b An absurd contradiction they deserue it and yet it is â—â—eely â—iuen them â—f it be â—â—eely thâ—n it is not of desert deserue the reward though giuen them by Gods free mercie for Christes passions sake yet novv made their vvages and hyer by Gods ordinance and by the proportion and relation betvveene grace Sap. 3. 15. Eccl. 16. 2. Rom. 2. 6. and glorie We defie Pelagius that said vve might merit the first grace or remission of sinner yet vve say vvith S. Augustine that the kingdom of heauen is both gratuite or free because it is of grace purchased by Christs blood and yet vvithall saith he it is a thing deserued because it is due to workes vvhich vvorkes come of grace that vvas giuen freely by Christ We desire no better iudge of the true sense of Gods vvord in this point then S. Augustine himselfe to whom we appeale We say vvith S. Iohn Behold the lambe of God which taketh away the sinnes of the world We say vve must put off the old man and put on the new We say vve must be noua conspersio Azimi We say vve must be c Yet the Answers owne conscience doth tell him that he is not
of eating and drinking Iob. 6. are not to be vnderstood properly but by a figure sect 22. 23. 24. 25. 26. 27. 28. 30. That the Doctours of the Romish church by the defence of Transubstantiation haue bene driuen to most impious and damnable questions and assertions sect 29. That the place of the Gospell Luc. 22. 20. which they so much cauil vpon out of the Greeke maketh nothing at all for Transubstantiation as by diuerse other reasons so by the confession Bellarmine himselfe sect 31. That the assumption of the virgin Mary is a meere fable sect 33. That the Church hath no authoritie after the Apostles to authorize any scriptures and that we seclude no other bookes from the canon of the bible then the old church did sect 34. How wickedly the Papists deale in mangling and martyring the writings of the Fathers sect 35. That our doctrine of iustification before God by faith onely is the verie trueth which both the scriptures and out of them the Fathers haue manifestly taught that it maketh nothing against good workes that the place of S. Iames cap. 2. maketh nothing against it sect 36. May it please thee gentle Reader first of all to take notice of these two places of Chrysostome Gelasius which haue bene the occasion of all this controuersie for thy better satisfaction I haue noted them both in English and Latin though otherwise to auoyd both tediousnesse of writing and vnnecessarie charges of printing I haue thought good to set downe the places alleaged onely translated into English The place of Chrysostome against the vse of water in the cup of the Lords table CVius rei gratia non aquam sed vinum post resurrectionem bibit Chrysost in Math. hom 83. Perniciosam quandam haeresin radicitùs euellere voluit eorum qui aqua in mysterijs vtuntur Ita vt ostenderet quia quando hoc mysteriuÌ„ tradidit vnum tradidit etiam post resurrectionem in nuda mysterij mensae vino vsus est Exgenimine ait vitis quae certè vinum non aquam producit In English thus But why did Christ after his resurrection drinke not Water but Wine He would plucke vp by the rootes a certaine pernicious heresie of them which vse water in the Sacrament So that to shew that when he deliuered this Sacrament he deliuered wine euen after his resurrection also he vsed wine at the bare table of the Sacrament Of the fruite of the vine saith he which surely bringeth foorth wine and not water The place of Gelasius against Transubstantiation CErtè sacramenta quae sumimus corporis sanguinis Christi diuina Gelasius cont Eutych Nestor res est propter quod per eadem diuinae efficimur consortes naturae tamen esse non desiuit substantia vel natura panis vini Et certe imago similitudo corporis sanguinis Christi in actione mysteriorum celebrantur Satis ergò nobis euidenter ostenditur hoc nohis in ipso Christo domino sentiendum quod in eius imagine profitemur celebramus et sumimus vt sicut in haenc scilicet in diuinam transeunt sancto spiritu perficiente substantiam permanent tamen in suae proprietate naturae sic illud ipsum mysterium principale cuius nobis efficientiam virtutemque veracitèr repraesentant ex quibus constat propriè permanentibus vnum Christum quia integrum verumque permaenere demon strant In English thus Verily the Sacraments which we receiue of the bodie and blood of Christ are a diuine thing by reason whereof we also by them are made partakers of the diuine nature and yet there ceaseth not to be the substance or nature of bread and wine And surely an image or esemblance of the bodie and blood of Christ is celebrated in the action of the mysteries It is therefore euidently inough shewed vnto vs that we must thinke the same in our Lord Iesus Christ which we professe celebrate and receiue in his image that as these namely the bread and wine do by the working of the holie Ghost passe ouer into a diuine substance and yet continue in the proprietie of their owne nature so they shew that that principall mysterie the efficiencie vertue wherof these do represent vnto vs doth abide one Christ because whole and true those natures properly remaining whereof he doth consist M. Spence hauing had my bookes to peruse these places sent me in writing this answere to them SIr I right hartily thanke you for the willing minde you hauâ— towards me Truly I should be verie vnkinde if I knew mâ— selfe vnaffectioned to so much good will I am in prison and pouertie otherwise I should be some way answerable to your friendlinesse In the meane season good will shall be readie for good will Touching the words of S. Chrysostome He would plucke vp by the rootes a certaine pernicious heresie of them which vse water in the Sacrament c. Read the 32. Canon of the sixth Councell holden at Constantinople and there you shall find vpon what occasion this golden mouth did vtter these words and not only that but also mention of S. Iames and S. Basils masse or sacrifice left to the church in writing The words of the Canon begin thus Because we know that in the country of the Armenians wine onely is offered at the holie table c. The heresie therefore against which he wrote was of the a Vntruth For neither doth Chrysostome intimate any thing against the Armenians or such as vse wine only neither was it heresie in theÌ„ that did so Armenians and the Aquarians the first whereof would vse onely wine the other onely water in the holie mysteries Against which vse being so directly against both the scriptures and custome of the primitiue church he wrote the same which he saith of pernicious heresie as before I cannot doubt of your hauing the Councels or some of them Your other booke conteining the words of Gelasius I wil not yet answere being printed at Basil where we suspect many good works to be corrupted abused But if it proue so to be yet the whole faith of Christs church in that point may not be reproued against so many witnesses of scriptures and fathers b Neither scripture not Father auoucheth the contrarie auouching the contrarie Nay what words should Christ haue vsed if he had meant to make his bodie blood of the bread and wine as we say he did other then these This is my bodie which shall be giuen c. And gaine for this is my blood of the new Testament which shal be shead for many for remission of sinnes Marke well the speeches and they be most wonderfull as most true All the world and writings therein c The Gospell it selfe is sufficient to perswade him that will be perswaded â—nforming vs of a true and naturall bodie of Christ and not of a fantasticall bodie in the fashion quantitie of a wafer cake cannot
herein as one Ioannes Scotus was a familiar friende of his who wrote a booke concerning the Sacrament to the same effect that Bertram did He was accounted no hereticke in his time but two hundreth yeares after when Berengarius pleaded the authoritie of the same booke it was condemned as hereticall in a Councell holden at Vercellae as a Lanfranc de sacram 〈…〉 char Lanfrancus testifieth who was present and an actour in the same matter So Beâ—tram who was Catholicke while he liued is now after so many hundreth yeares brought in suspiâ—ion to be an hereticke But the Answ owne fellowes the Authors of the b Index Expurgat in ceâ—sura Bertra Index Expurgatorius doe cleare Bertram from this suspition acknowledging him by these words that he was A Catholicke priest a Monke of the Abbie of Corbeie beloued and reuerenced of Carolus Caluus the Emperour and this verie same Bertram do they confesse to be the Authour of that booke which the Answerer would faine make vs beléeue to be a counterfeit They fréely confesse they must tollerate some errours in him as well as they do verie many in the auncient Doctors They say they would not wholy suppresse the booke least we should haue cause to say that they make away such antiquitie as serueth for vs. They confesse that it helpeth the historie of the time wherein Bertram liued The booke it selfe indéed doth shew it selfe so euidently to be of antiquitie that no man of any iudgement or conscience can gainsay it Yet saith the Answ learned men are of opinion that this was not Bertrams booke Who are those learned men Forsooth c Bristow in his reply to D. Fulk cap. 10. de 19. Bristow and Sander and some few other of the same marke whose word is inough to proue anie thing to be counterfeit But their authoritie is ouerwaied by the testimony and confession of those other of their owne company to whom these must giue place for commendation of learning It is no maruell that the Answ and those other his honest companions would haue the booke séeme counterfeit being written almost eight hundreth yeares agone so directly and of purpose against Transubstantiation The reason alleaged out of him carrieth with it that force that the Spanish censures in the Index aforesaid thought it not safe to let it continue but haue discharged it from the presse The Answerer full wisely passeth it ouer with How knoweth he and what necessitie is there without affirming any thing himselfe or so much as looking at the ground of that reason which is alleaged I would haue him peruse it once again As for his spéeches of those bookes of Caluin and Bucer falsly intituled I take them to be of the same sort as that the Thames stood stil when Friar Campian was executed for his treason Though any such thing were it is not for a Papist to speake of it seeing that they themselues in counterfeiting and falsifying of bookes haue passed all the impudency of former times P. Spence Sect. 4. YOur Athenian mad man was indeed a peeuish fellow and mee thinke they are not of the wisest that weene we haue no other defence for the Masse but the word Liturgia Where reade you this for an argument The Greekes call it Liturgia ergo it is the Masse Though Erasmus in the Acts of the Apostles translateth 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 as they were sacrificing yet of his translation or of the word a Vntruth for it is a common argument The Answ is ashamed of his fellowes doings So M. Iewel vseth Doctor Harding no man frameth an argument for the name Missa except he were like your mad Athenian It is no new deuise to father vpon vs such arguments as we neuer thought of to triumph vpon the easie solution thereof R. Abbot 4. HEre the Answ is ashamed of the absurditie of his owne fellowes For he knoweth wel inough that their mouthes run ouer with these termes Basils Masse Chrysostomes Masse c. And that wheresoeuer they finde the Latin word Missa in any auncient writer they triumph thereof as hauing a proofe for their idolatrous Masse You know M. Spence that these are verie currant arguments with your selfe and those titles turne rounde vpon your tongue neither néede you to be ashamed thereof séeing D. Allen hath taught you to estéeme them so who taketh himselfe for a better Clerke then you are You know also when you tooke those words a Act. 13. 2. 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 as they were ministring to be a very good proofe for your Masse when you demanded of me to that purpose what the Gréeke wordes were But all these thinges the Answ is now ashamed of He telleth me that they do not say the Gréeke is 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 therefore it is the Masse No but 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 is by some according to the phrase of their time translated Masse and that name of Masse thus translated some of his companions and namely you M. Spence deceitfully alleage to the simple ignorant as a strong proofe for the Popish Masse And this is that cogging and cosoning argument that I speake of wherewith you your selfe are deceiued as a very silly and ignorant man He telleth me further that though Erasmus translate sacrificantibus illis that is as they were sacrificing Act. 13. wheras the truth of the text is as they were ministring to the Lord yet of his translation or of the word no man frameth an argument for the name Missa No but yet for the Masse it selfe the b Rhem. Aâ—nota Act. 13. 2. Rhemists take an argument from thence and vnshamefastly and contrary to their knowledge and conscience say that the word signifieth they might haue translated saying Masse Wherof follow those absurdities that before I mentioned that the c Rom. 13. â— Magistrate is a Masse priest d Heb. 1. 14. that Angels are massing spirits that e Rom. 15 27. 2. Cor. 9. 12. to giue to the poore is to say Masse because the Apostle vseth the same Gréeke word of all these which they say doth signifie to say Masse But the Iesuit helpeth this lame reason of theirs by putting to it another lame legge He confesseth that the Gréeke worde f Bellarm. tom 2 con â— de Mâ—ssa lib. 1. cap. 13. 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 importeth the execution of any publicke function or ministerie whatsoeuer But yet in this place he saith it must néedes be vnderstood of sacrificing because it is not simply said As they were ministring but as they were ministring to the Lord For it may not be vnderstood he saith of preaching the word or ministring the Sacraments because the preaching of the word and ministring the Sacraments is not to the Lord but to men He plaieth herein the part of a craftie Lawier who taking a bad cause in hand will séeke by shifting and faysting to preuaile because he faileth of good sound argument For
in the Gospell commended by S. Paul to the whole Church of Corinth generally and without exception obserued in the primitiue Church but that he chooseth rather to asswage his thirst by drinking of the miery and filthie puddles of the Church of Rome then of the pure and cleare fountaine of the word of God But all this notwithstanding how may we be assured or perswaded that the aforesaid Liturgies are theirs whose names they beare For beside that Liturgie which commonly goeth vnder the name of saint Iameâ— the Apostle there is also a Clem. Apoâ—t Constit lib 8. cap. 15. c. another set downe in the first volume of the Councels vnder his name And whether of these Liturgies will they require vs to accept of Or séeing they will haue not only that seuerall Liturgie but also the Constitutions vnder Clemens name to be both authenticall and good what pretence haue they to say that S. Iames left two Liturgies in the Church To say the truth they are both bastards The common Liturgie of S. Iames praieth for such as liue b Iacobi Liturgia Latine in Monasteries and I trow the Answ cannot proue that there were any Monasteries for Christians in the Apostles times But here c Hard. Reioind pa. 46. M. Harding excepteth that the Gréeke in that place is 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 that is to say in exercise which by his exposition importeth monâ—stical and solitary life And although they had not Monasteries of wealthy prouision such as ours in England were yet he auoucheth that they had places celles or houses where they liued solitarily in the exercise of vertue not hauing to do with the world But he abuseth his reader therein neither could he iustifie any such monasticall life to haue bene vsed in 〈◊〉 Iames his time For whereas he alleageth Philo out of d Euâ—eb hist eccles lib. 2. cap. 17. Eusebius to proue it he might haue found if he had looked vpon e Philo. de vita contemplat Philo himselfe that be wrote his booke not of Christian Monkes but of Iewish Essees Whereof he maketh two sorts the one liuing in action the other incontemplation as f Ioseph de bello Iuda lib. 2. cap. 7. Iosephus also séemeth to note that they were not of one sort when he mentioneth that some of them were married and other some professed single life Philo hauing written his booke Quod 〈◊〉 probus f 〈…〉 er of the one sort that liued in action beginneth his other booke whereof Eusebius conceiuâ—d his opinion tâ—us Now that we haue spoken of the Essees that liue in action it followeth that wee also speake of them that liue in contemplation Here it is apparant that they of whom Philo writeth were called Essees as g Andrad Oxthod Expli liâ— 2. Andradius and others confesse But the name of Essees hath not bene found to be attributed to any of Christian profession vntill Eusebius by errour mistooke that booke of Philo and gaue occasion of the same errour to Hierome Epiphanius Sozomen and others Yet Hierome although h Hierony in Catalo Marcus Philo. one where he vnderstandeth that booke of Christians â—oth in one of i Epist ad Eustoch de custod virginit his Epistles manifestly refer it to the same sect of Iewish Monkes of which Iosephus writeth But if this will not stop the Answerers mouth let him take that which M. Harding confesseth and is true that Philo wrote in the time of the Apostles and then let him â—aigh herewith these words of Philo concerning those of whom he writeth k Habent pris corum commentarios qui huius sectae authores c. They haue saith he the Commentaries of their auncestours who being the Authours of this sect left many monuments of such allegories c. Auncestors then and men of elder times then Philo and the Apostles were Authors of yâ— sect of which Philo writeth But I hope there were no Christian Monks before the time of yâ— Apostles Therfore this booke caÌ„not be vnderstood of Christian Monkes but of a sect whose beginning was before the Apostles times such as were the Essees of the Iewes And hereby appeareth the falshood of l Bellarm. tom 1. cont 5. lib. 2. cap. 5. Bellarmine who saith that Philo giueth to vnderstand that he wrote of a sect which begaÌ„ in his time whereby he would haue it séeme likely that he wrote of some of Christian profession whereas Philo expresly affirmeth the contrary as appeareth in the words alleaged To let passe that which Philo writeth of their obseruing the seuenth day which was the Iewish Sabboth and that with intention of speciall mysterie otherwise then may be supposed of mâ—n eâ—tierly deuoted to Christian religion me thinkes it is a thing not to be imagined that the same Philo taking vpon him to set downe exactly the discipline and profession of these men should not so much as in one word intimate that they were Christians if they had â—ene so indéed Straunge it is also that there should appeare no monument of this monasticall life in the Acts of the Apostles or in any of their Epistles neither by way of storie nor of precept nor of gréeting them that vsed it if it had bene in those first times of the Christian Church as also that no other certaine record of times immediatly sucâ—éeding should deliuer any such to our knowledge Now whereas Andradius very presumptuously and without any reason giuen m Andrad Oxthod Expli lib 2. affirmeth that those things which Philo writeth cannot agrée to any other but Christians surely he which shall reade that which n Iosephus Anâ—iq Iuda lib. 18 cap. 2. de bello Iudai lib. 2. ca. 7. Iosephus o Plini lib. 5. cap. â—7 Plinie and p Soâ—â— de reb oâ—b meâ— orab Solinus haue written of those Iewish Essees shall find that there is nothing mentioned by Philo but what may well agree to them also Séeing therefore it cannot be proued that there was any such monasticall life professed by Christians in the Apostles times it followeth that we must néedes take that Liturgie which praieth for some as then professing it to be a méere forgery The other Liturgie vnder the name of saint Iames is reiected by the lyke reason For therein prayer is made for q Clem. constit â—post lib. â— cap 18. Pro sub 〈…〉 conis lect 〈…〉 s Cantoribus Subdeacons Lesson-readers and singing men whereas it is certaine that there were no such officers of the Church in saint Iames his time But as touching this Liturgy set downe by the counterfeit Clement it is to be noted that it is said to haue bene endited by saint Iames in a solemne méeting of the Apostles where they were assembled of purpose to resolue r Ibid cap. 2. of all ecclesiasticall order In the ende whereof this generall approbation is added Å¿ Ibid cap. 23. These things do we Apostles ordeine
of the church mouth and eyes and spirit of the Church next Gods spirit a verie goodly noble and great part of the church far the best and fairest part of the church but their seuerall opinions are not the whole churches doctrine That question hath so many braunches that in this short discourse I cannot touch all the particularities thereof to our treatises therefore I refer you Was Gelasius Pope of Rome how proue it you if we deny it we maruell why you thinke so If he had bene Pope were all his bookes dogmaticke and definitiue b It skilleth not though he did not For Bellarmine telleth vs that it is most probable that the Pope cannot erre in his priuate iudgement It must be an Oracle therfore what soeuer he writeth whether as Pope or as a priuat man did he if he had bene Pope pronounce them pro tribunal◠Did he send them as responsa and decretall epistles Did neuer Popes write bookes and yet not in all points taken for Oracles Aeneas Siluius after he was Pope wrote much so did others You are wide and go astraie far from the state of that question I say no more but view our questions therein Theodoret Gelasius are answered at large whatsoeuer they thought they were far from your minde Theodoret at that time was so partiall as in the controuersie betweene him and Cyrill it appeareth that he was faine to recant ere he could bee reconciled And in these verie Dialogues we can shew you errors yea foule of his It is not vnlikely that hee followed sometimes the counsell that himselfe in the same Dialogues giueth that is to make a crooked wand straight to bend it as much the other way And now sir to come to Gelasius who in euerie point accordeth with Theodoret against the Eutychian heresie first he writeth thus Sapientia aedificauit sibi domum septiformis spiritus soliditate subnixam c. I will English it for the same cause Thus it is Wisedome that is Christ the wisedome of the father hath builded for it selfe an house grounded or leaning vpon the soundnesse of the seuenth fold spirit which should minister the foode or nourishment of Christs incarnation whereby or by which foode we are made partakers of the diuine nature Verily the Sacraments of the bodie blood of Christ which we receiue are a diuine thing for the which cause by the same also are we made partners of the diuine nature and yet the substance or nature of bread and wine ceaseth not to be or looseth not his being vtterly and is anihilated and becommeth nothing and certes in the action or celebration of the mysteries or Sacraments an image or similitude or resemblance of Christs bodie and blood is celebrated or practised It is therefore euident inough shewed vnto vs that we ought to thinke the same thing to bee in Christ our Lorde himselfe which we professe to be which we celebrate and which we receiue in his image he meaneth in the Sacrament that euen as they the Sacrament of bread and wine by the working of the holie Ghost do passe ouer or be chaunged into a diuine substance remaining neuerthelesse in the propertie of their nature right so do they shew that that verie principall mysterie it selfe by which he meaneth Christ God man now being in two natures one person in heauen whom the hereticke Eutyches would haue in heauen to haue lost his manhood and to be but God alone whose efficiencie or perfect nature and vertue they the sayd Sacraments do truly represent the things whereof it properly consisteth it is the two natures of the diuinitie and humanitie in one person still remaining doth remaine and continue one Christ because he is whole and truly being or consisting in his whole and true natures of God and man in one person This testimony of Gelasius might seeme perhaps to make somewhat for a Lutheran because it seemeth to affirme in the B. Sacrament to be two substances a diuine substance bread and wine but the Caluinist lacketh foure of his fiue wits to vrge it which maketh flat against him not only in the verie words but most chiefly in the drift of the argument against Eutyches which by the consideration c His circumstances serue only to blinde the eies of the reader The troubling of the riuer is for the aduantage of the fisher of the circumstances following shall most euidently appeare for that the verie words force of the reason or argument here made do proue Christs bodie to be really present which he denieth Eutyches the Abbot who was condemned in the Chalcedon Councell at which time Gelasius flourished held that our Sauiour Christ his deitie or diuine nature after his ascension into heauen did d As touching the substance not as touching the properties euen as the Papists say of the bread wine consume and anihilate or bring to nothing his humane nature So that by his heresie Christ now shuld be no more man but God alone The truth of the B. Sacrament that therein Christ was really continued was so commonly and firmely beleeued and professed in the holie church e That because neuer any Father taught it the Answerer is driuen to seeke proofe thereof from the heretickes that there were diuerse heretickes that vsed or rather abused the same for an argument pretensedly to confirme their heresies The Maniches to proue that the ill god such was their blasphemous heresie had imprisoned certaine parcels or peeces of the good God in these worldly creatures earthly things alleaged Christ whom they f Vntruth S. Austen doth not graunt it called the good God to be really in the Sacrament but S. Augustine graunting them Christ to be really therein saith hee is there by consecration not by creation or as it were imprisoned So touching our case of Gelasius the Eutychian against whom he wrote held Christ in heauen his humanitie being gone to be only God in like maner as his diuine nature only is in the Sacrament the bread and wine being anihilated and consumed vnto nothing g A leaud tale wholy deuised of the Answ himselfe Eutyches neuer imagined any such matter as shall appeare nothing therein remaining of the substantiall properties or natures of bread and wine but onely Christs diuine nature So certaine a veritie it was then currant in the whole church and to the verie heretickes that Christ is really in the B. Sacrament Whereupon by a similitude or resemblance taken from the Sacrament he wold haue nothing remaining in heauen of Christs humanitie but the same being vanished into nothing his Deitie only there to remain as the bread is cōsumed in the Sacrament Against this similitude Gelasius replieth not denying Christs bodie diuine nature to be really in the Sacrament which was and euer hath bene a generall currant and confessed truth which otherwise had serued his turne much better to deny and thereby had he more readily and directly reiected
at that time and vpon that occasion Thus much of Gelasius whom you affirme for the Bishop of Rome but you cannot prooue it for this Gelasius was neuer Bishop of Rome R. Abbot 11. THe whole béeing of the sacrifice of the masse resteth vpon this next point of transsubstantiation which béeing ouerthrowen the sacrifice consequently falleth to the grounde Nowe that is plainly ouerthrowen by the testimonies of Gelasius and Theodoret amongst others in my former answere alledged who both expresly affirme the substance of bread and wine after consecration But to vnwind himselfe from the euidence of their words it is straunge to sée what miserable and wretched shiftes the Answerer vseth and all in vaine He taketh exception against this Gelasius that he was not Bishop of Rome Then though he were yet all that he wrote was not of authority because he did not pronounce it from his consistory chaire c. Thirdly whatsoeuer he thought he was farre from our mind Againe Theodoret was not of sound iudgement he had foule errors and to make a crooked wand straight he did bend it too much the other way that is to confound Eutyches his heresie he did plainely and flatly deny popishe transsubstantiation But all these shifts the Answerer in his owne conscience knewe to be vaine and friuolous Gelasius after that he was Bishoppe of Rome wrote fiue bookes against Eutiches and Nestorius The treatise whence I tooke those words that I alleadged goeth vnder his name as a part of one of those bookes Thus I finde it reported and no proofe giuen to disprooue it In the end of this treatise he exhorteth them to whom he writeth that as they did with one mind hold the Apostolike sea so they should constantly auouch that rule of Catholicke faith which he had declared out of the writinges of the Fathers that were before him making their holding with the Apostolicke sea a reason why they should giue héede to that which he had written Which may giue a good coniecture that it was Galasius Bishop of Rome and no other Gelasius that was the author of this booke But it is sufficient though it were not Gelasius Bishop of Rome yet that the booke is confessed to be authenticall so that a Bellarm. tom 2. de sacram 〈◊〉 lib 2. cap. 2â— Bellarmine himselfe taketh it to haue bene written by Gelasius Bishop of Caesaria before the councel of ChalcedoÌ„ which was in the yéere 455. b Gregor â—â— valent de reâ—lâ— praesent â—â— transubst 〈◊〉 â— cap. â— Gregory de Valentia in one place saith that the author of that booke was Gelasius of Caesaria as Bellarmine doth in c Idem de â—dololat lib. 2. cap. 5. another that it was Gennadius of Massilia As for Theodoret he was found no other but a Catholicke Bishop in the said councell of d Concil Calced Act. 8. Calcedon and so approoued by generall applause It séemeth that e Leo Epâ— 61. et conciâ— chalced Act. 8 Leo Bishop of Rome tooke him for no other by his letters written to him and for him That which the Answ saith of his recantatioÌ„ is a lewd and slaunderous tale Some stomacke he tooke against f Praefat. iâ— opeâ—a Theodoreâ— Cirill for his procéeding in the councell of Ephesus before he and his company were come Therupon he wrot against Ciril séeking to draw him into suspicion of heresie withoute cause This doing of his was greatly disliked of many and made him to be euill thought of Yet matters were ordered be twixt them and they reconciled ech to other But that he made any recantation of his opinions or was conuicted in that behalfe it is vnhonestly affirmed These shifts therfore not seruing the turne the Answ sifteth the wordes alleaged against him and to wrest them from their plaine and euident meaning he sticketh not to belie the Fathers to father new opinions vpon the old heretickes to deuise affirme matters of his owne head without any testimony or shew of testimony of antiquitie He telleth me that wheÌ„ it is said There ceaseth not to be the substance the meaning is the accedents remaine He wil haue the body of Christ to be made euery day of bread which we beléeue to haue bene once only made of the substance of the Virgin Mary He maketh as if the Fathers were as fond as he himselfe is to say that there remaineth the colour of bread the tast the strength the shewe of bread but yet there is no bread He maketh Gelasius to write he knew not what because forsooth he was before the generall definition of the church and made no exact search of the matter But why doth he not bring proofe of all these straunge fancies that here he hath set downe Is it enough for him to say what he list May I not say as Austin said to the hereticke g August cont epis sundâ— cap. 5. Thinkest thou I am so foolish to beleeue or not to beleeue as thou woldst haue me without any reason giuen He may be a Pythagoras perhaps to his own pupills but we do looke for more then his bare wordes But alas what do these men meane thus to dally with God and to wound their coÌ„sciences by striuing against apparant and manifest truth A Caluinist the Answ telleth me lacketh foure of his fiue wittes to alleage that place of Gelasius being as he saith both in words and in the drift of the argument against him But I tell him againe that the odde fifth witte of a Caluinist findeth strength enough in this place to quell a Papist and wil be himselfe nothing endamaged thereby As touching his circumstances which he setteth downe to explicate the same wordes of Gelasius they are for the most part grosse and shamelesse forgeries which serue indéede for nothing else but to leade a man a daunce round about from the sight of that which at the first sight is plaine enough It shall appeare that they are nothing else by the consideration of the originall and processe of the matter disputed of by Gelasius Nestorius the hereticke held a separation and disioyning of the two natures of Christ the godhead and the manhood and denied the personall vniting of them into one Christ and therefore condemned these spéeches that the Virgin Mary is the mother of God and that God suffered for our sins Against him the councel of Ephesus resolued out of the word of God that the godhead the manhood are substantially vnited into one person so that as the soule body make one man so God and man are one Christ as h Athan. in Sâ—mbolo Athanasius speaketh By reason of which vnion they defended it to be truly said that the Virgin Mary is the mother of God because she is the mother of him who is not only man but also God And so it is truly sayd that i Luc. 1. 35. Act. 20. 28. 1 cor 2. 8. Leo. epis 10. God was borne that God was wrapped
life as the rocke was Christ as the Apostle saith They dranke of the spirituall rocke which followed them and the rocke was Christ It is not said The rocke was Christ because the rocke did really conteine Christ No more then was it said The bloud is the life because it did really conteine the life but because it was ordained to be a signe of life though it selfe were altogether dead and cold And this doth S. Austen againe expresly note in another place saying It k August cont aduersa leg proph lib. 2. cap. 6. is said The bloud of al flesh is the life or soule thereof in like maner as it is said The rocke was Christ not because it was so indeed but because Christ was signified heereby The lawe would by the bloud signifie the life or soule a thing inuisible by a thing visible c. because the bloud is visibly as the soule is inuisibly the chiefest and most principall of all things whereof wee consist Héere is then a matter of signification onely not of any reall conteining vnlesse the Answ will be so fond as to say that the rocke did really conteine Christ But now of this maner of speaking The bloud is the life or soule when it is indéede but a signe thereof S. Austen giueth a like example in the words of our Sauiour Christ who saith he doubted not to say This is my body when he gaue the signe of his body directly to this meaning that as Christ said This is my body when he gaue it into his Disciples handes not his bodie indéede but onely the signe and sacrament of his body and as the Apostle saith the rock was Christ when it was not Christ indéede but onely a signe of Christ so Moses said The bloud is the life not because it selfe was the life indéede but was onely appointed to be a signe of life And if the sacrament were indéed really the body of Christ what occasion should there be why Christ should doubt to say this is my body But either S. Austen speaketh vainly or els his words import that there might be occasion of doubting to say so And why but because it was not so indéede Yet saith he because it was the mysterie and signe of his body though not his body in substance and indéed therfore hee doubted not according to the maner of the scriptures in like case to say This is my body and so did Moses speake of the bloud Thus most manifestly and plainly I haue shewed that the Answ irrefragable exposition is nothing else but vnhonest and vnconscionable shifting P. Spence Sect. 18. BVt Tertullian killeth the Cow for he saith a figure of the body What if I prooue to you that you be as fowly deceaued or would deceiue in Tertullian as in the last place of S. Augustine This hath Tertullian in lib. 4. contra Marcionem The bread which hee tooke and distributed to his disciples he made his body Lo Tertullian saith Christ made the bread his body so say we and not you how made it he his body by speaking ouer it the wordes of consecration in saying this is my body that is a figure of my body Did Christ say to them This is the figure of my body But if he had yet by speaking those wordes hee had made it his body after Tertullians minde But the very trueth and all the point of the case heerein is in this that Tertullians words may haue two expositions one which you like of This is my body Two expositions of Tertullian that is the figure of my body the other which is our sense and the verie intended meaning of Tertullian is this This is my body This that is to say the figure of my body is my bodie To prooue this vnto you remember it is out of his fourth booke against Marcion which Marcion held the ill God of the old testament to be a deadly enimie to the good God of the new testament Marcion wrote a book called Antithesis or Antilogiae of contradictions and repugnances betweene the two testamentes Against that booke spendeth Tertullian the greatest part of his fourth booke shewing howe Christ the God of the new testament fulfilled and consecrated the old figures of the old testament as a friend and not as an enemie thereof and to that end thus he saith conferring places togither Christ in the daie time taught in the temple of Hierusalem he had foretold by O see In my temple they sâ—ught me and there I will dispute with them Againe he went apart into the mount Elaeon that is to the mount of Oliues Because Zacharie wrote and his feete shall stand in the mount Elaeon Againe they came togither early in the morning agreeable to Esay who saith Hee hath giuen me an eare to heare betimes in the morning If this be saith Tertullian to dissolue the prophesies what is to fulfill them Againe hee chose the passouer for his passion For Moses said before It shall be the passouer of the Lord. Yea saith Tertullian He shewed his affection or desire I haue earnestly desired to eat this passeouer with you c. O destroier of the law which desired also to keepe the passeouer Againe he might haue been betraied of a stranger sauing that the Psalme had before prophesied He which eateth bread with me will lifâ— vp his foote against me Yet further he might haue been betraied without reward saue that that should haue been for another Christ not for him which fulfilled the prophesies For it was written They haue sold the iust Yea the verie price that he was sold for Hieremie foretold They tooke the thirtie siluer peeces the price of him that was valued and gaue them for a potters field Thus farre in this one place among infinite other in the whole booke Tertullian sheweth Christ the God of the new testament to haue fulfilled the figures of the olde as being the one onely God of both Testaments And then by and by he inferreth as another example these wordes Therefore professing that he did greatlie desire to eate the passeouer as his owne for it was vnfit that God should desire anie thing of anothers whereby hee sheweth Christ to be the onely God of both testaments He made the bread which he tooke and distributed to his Disciples his bodie in saying This is my bodie that is the figure of my bodie What figure I beseech you meant he not the figure vsed a He did not meane any figure vsed by Melchisedech neither doth any way allude to it by Melchisedech of bread and wine meant he not a figure of the old Testament taken vsed and fulfilled by Christ in the newe is not that his drift Must Tertullian become an asse to serue your turne and forget his owne drift and purpose here and contrary what he hath so plainly spoken of the Sacrament in other his books This is b It is not foolish vaunting and bragging that must waigh this
cleane nor white as snow cleane and whiter then snow and not haue a curtaine only dravven to couer our sinnes onely Wee say that vve haue inherent iustice not imputed vvhich vve thinke to be but d A leaude wretch that derideth that which the holy Ghost hath expresly set downe an ape of iustification We say that iustification standeth of these integrall parts First e An vntowardly description of iustificatâ—on wherein remission of sinnes and reconcilement to God is put before faâ—â—h besidâ— dâ—uerse other peeuish follies that might therein be noted forgiuenesse of sins 2. Reconcilement to God 3. Renuing in faith hope and charitie 4. Charitie not vnperfect and begun but childelike and of another more diuine nature which wholy in kind differeth from that which is but begun 5. The ascribing to the inheritance of heauen And because you mention here S. Augustine vnderstand you that he noteth three sorts or degrees of iustification The first to make of vngodly iust The second He which is iust let him yet be iustified and feare not to be iustified vnto death that is to be made better and more iust The third Not the hearers of the law but the doers shall be iustified that is to haue the last finall revvard end and perfection of iustice Thus doth S. Augustine speake of it First concerning the tvvo first degrees thus he saith contra Iulianum li. 20. Iustification is giuen vs in this life by these f In which three things there is nothing at all to make for inherent iustice in this life but altogither and wholly against it For if there be iustice what place is there for forgiuenesse of sinnes or fighting against sinne three things first by the vvashing of regeneration vvhereby all sinnes are forgiuen After by fighting vvith vices from the guilt vvhereof vve vvere discharged and assoyled Thirdly vvhile our praier is heard vvherein vve say Forgiue vr our trespasses Thus far S. Augustine in that place So that here S. Augustine himselfe telleth you vvhat hee meaneth by Forgiue vs our trespasses the continuall veniall slips vvhich the verie best and iustest many times in the day fall into and yet iustice g Vntruth for the trespassing of iustice taketh away the name of being iust not taken away therby though their alacritie abated Veniall sinnes are beside charitie but not h He that is not with me is against me saith Christ so must we say alâ—o as tovching charitie against charitie And remember that no man of his owne state can assure himselfe but that he may feare and must crie out Enter not into iudgement c. and why i The very shift of the Pelagian heretickes See the answere in respect of the puritie of God no man neuer so good no nor Angell nor heauen is pure Man euen the best man of himselfe must say I am vnprofitable seruant Yet God calleth the iust not his seruants but his friends We must say we be vnprofitable seruants in very deed not profiting God a myte who was as happie and as glorious before he laid the foundation of the worlde as euer sithence Neither could k Christ as touching his humanitie is made an vnprofitable seruant Christs blessed humanitie or all he did in the flesh profit God any way who before wanted not any perfection nor could receiue any more benefit or good then before he had Thus I say must a man euen the best man humbly thinke of himselfe Yet S. Paul 2. Tim. 2. saith If any man cleanse himselfe from these he shal be a vessell sanctified to honour profitable for the Lord and why profitable Prepared or readie to euery good worke Reconcile therefore these places rightly and learne that Profitable is not ment to be profitable to God who receiueth no profit by all our vttermost endeuours but it is as much as seruing to such a good vse as God hath created vs too to his glorie and our saluation to honour him with our glorification A iustified cannot nor must not boast of his state which he is ignorant of but yet in good hope and therefore must abase himselfe before Gods Maiestie l VVe must abase himselfe to the center of the earth and yet thinke it may be that he is worthie inough to lift vp his head as high as heauen A preposterous and doubtfull humilitie to the very center of the earth But we supposing another man to be iustified may say that of him which himselfe cannot say of himselfe Now of the third degree of Iustification which is the end and perfitting of our iustice S. August epist 106. saith our hope shall be fully accomplished in the resurrection of the dead and when our hope shall be fulfilled then shall our iustification be fulfilled and accomplished So that you see by S. Augustine in these places our iustification hath a beginning an encrease and end R. Abbot 36. AS touching iustification hée fendeth me a deale of paltrie stuffe patched out of the heresie of the Pelagians the vain presumptions of the Schoolemen without any sounde argument out of the word of God neither maketh he any direct answer to that that was vrged against him The scripture is plain that a Rom. 3. 20. Gal. 2. 16 by the workes of the law no flesh shall be iustified in the sight of God b Rom 3. 28 that a man is iustified by faith without the workes of the law that c Gal. 3. 10. whosoeuer are of the works of the law are vnder the curse because it is written Cursed is euery one that continueth not in all things that are written in the booke of the law to do them and no man continueth in all d Iam. 3. 2. for in many things we offend all saith S. Iames. The Answ sheweth not he cannot shewe that the inherent righteousnesse of any man in this life is such as that thereby he can be presented holie and blamelesse and without fault in the sight of God which is the thing required The consciences and confessions of all the godly are against it S. Austen to whom the Answ referreth himselfe saith e August epist 29. The most perfect loue or charitie which cannot now be encreased is founde in no man so long as he liueth here and so long as it may be encreased surely that that is lesse then ought to be is of a default or vice By reason of which default or vice there is not a man iust vppon the earth which doth good and sinneth not By reason of which default no man liuing shall be found righteous in the sight of God And this is so true that f Pighius otherwise a heauy and deadly enemy to the Gospell is forced to subscribe to our f Pighi contro de iustificat doctrine in this point and to confesse that the righteousnesse whereby we stand iust before God is not our inherent righteousnesse according to the law but the imputed righteousnesse
authoritie to direct them do so resolâ—tely affirme that whereof they are not certaine no certaine authoritie therin to direct them Some said shee was martyred according to the saying of Simeon The sword shall go through thy soule Some said shee suruiued Christs ascention but three yeares Eusebius in Chronico saith she died at 59. or thereaboutes The most common reckoning faith she departed at 63. yeares of her age Epiphanius b Vntrueth leaud and vnshamefast Dyonisius hath no such thing who of so good authoritie and of so great antiquitie alloweth of that report of Dyonisius saith she died at 70. yeares or thereabout of her age as farre as I remember and then may Dionysius wordes well stand with that report In this so vncertaine a matter what side would you haue our Rhemists to take they shewed what the coÌ„mon opinion was not defining any thing and therfore could not be empeached for any ouersight They did not declare therein their owne iudgementes but told you what was the common-opinion of her age and of the time of her passage out of this mortalitie How then can you say they are ouerreached by their owne computation concerning Dionysius do they say the common opinion of her age onely to be true and reiect the râ—st They doe not but onely set downe both but define of neither what error then or ouersight at all but imagine the worst they forgot themselues in their accompt A high matter in a low house it is neither fâ—lonie nor treason nor heresie nor veniall sinne But you would I smell you haue them reiect Dionysius report Dionysius whom Erasinus though without commission or reason hee censure him for another Dionysius yet he yeeldeth him to be verie auncient but sauing him all c Vntrueth they do not say that that Dionysius that was the authour of that narration oâ— fable was the scholer of S. Paule the learned men that euer were of both Greeke and Latine Church admit for S. Pauls disciple the Apostle of France without doubt or controuersie Or because the writers agree not vpon the time of our Ladies decease do you doubt whether shee be departed or no Or be you angry and enuie her felicitie to be assumpted I dare â—uouch it that she was higher in fauour with God then eytheâ— Enoch or Eltas To be plaine with you I take it to be impietie to denie her assumption so constantly confessed of the whole Church so solemnly celebrated so long and aunciently kept by so many auncient fathers confessed and by none denied and now of late onely by your selues without any other warrant reason or probabilitie controlled R. Abbot 33. HE excuseth the ouersight of his Rhemistes about the tale of the Assumption of the virgin Mary But why doth he here again omit to say any thing for their exposition of the words Heb. 10. O impudent men that would commit such apparant falshood for excuse wherof a man as impudent as themselues can deuise no shift at all I say as impudent as themselues because he sheweth himselfe so in the matter now in hand The Assumption is proued by the reason that I alleaged to be a méere fable The Remistes that report it mention the longest time that shée is said to haue liued namely 63. yéeres and yet that will not helpe the matter But the Answ saith that Epiphanius who of so good authoritie and of so great antiquitie alloweth of that report of Diosius saith she dyed at 70 yéeres of her age as farre saith he as I remember A naughtie man and of a lewd remembrance that can remember a thing that he neuer read Where doth Epiphanius say so or where doth he allow or so much as name that report of Dionysius Where is the trueth or conscience of this man If any such thing had béene his Remistes would haue béen glad of such â— patrone But Epiphanius tooke no notice thereof a Epiphan haer 78. contr Antidicomariantas Whether the holy virgin saith he be dead and buried her falling a sleepe is in honour c. Or whether she were put to death her glorie is among the martyrs c or whether she haue remained for it is not impossible to God to do all that he wil for her end is known to no man it is not conuenient to honour saintes more then is meete but to honour their Lord. Where in plain words he giueth to vnderstand that there was nothing in his time knowen or receiued concerning this matter Nay the Masse-booke it selfe checketh the wilfulnesse of these men in the assertion héereof where the lesson for the assumption day going as it séemeth vnder the name of Hierome calleth the storie of the departure hence of the B. virgin b Lect. in festo Assumpt an apocryphall writing and saith that nothing can be auouched thereof but that she dyed as that day that it was doubted of whether she were assumpted with her bodie or not that it was not knowen whether shee was raised againe or not although some did go about to auouch so and all this to the end that Paul and Eustochium should not take things vncertaine for certaine In the Sermons de sanctis in S. Austens workes there is a Sermon as it is thought of Fulbertus which affirmeth likewise that c De sanct ser 35. no catholike historie did testifie the assumption that the apocryphall writings thereof were not allowed to be read that none of the latine writers had spoken any thing plainly of her death and concludeth thus It remaineth therefore that man do not lyingly faine that to be manifest and knowen which God would haue to remaine hidden and vnknowen What then shall wée accompt the Rhemistes but lyers that so boldly auouch this fable as certaine without any certaine proofe thereof It is manifest héereby that no report of any Dionysius was as touching this point receiued for Catholicke historie But for proofe that that Dionysius of whom the Answ speaketh of is a counterfeit I referre him to those reasons d Conferre with Hart. chap. 8 diu 2 that D. Rainoldes giueth thereof till the same reasons be fully answered That he is auncient we denie not but yet an auncient counterfeite That all the learned men that euer wrote haue confessed this Dionysius to be S. Pauls Disciple it is vnhonestly and vnshamefastly spoken neither can he iustifie it by any one of great antiquitie So is that yâ— he saith of so many fathers confessing and none denying the assumption of the virgin Mary as appeareth by that that hath béen said In refusing this storie of the assumption we enuie not to the blessed virgin her felicitie but wee condemne Papistes of wilfulnesse and folly in alleaging vncertaine fables for certaine and approoued trueths P. Spence Sect. 34. AS touching Canonicall Scripture the Church doth not giue them their goodnesse trueth force and vertue but the holie Ghost onely who wrote them being as sound good true and perfect if they lay
hid vnder the ground and neuer seen as now being allowed of But the Church plaieth herein like a Lapidarie who by his long a The great skill of the Church of Roome to discerne those bookes to be canonicail which the Apostles and primatiue Church could not discerne to be so skill discerneth a true diamond from the counterfeit but the vertue he giueth not to it but that came of the first creation And so the Church by the illumination of the holie ghost is taught not to make scriptures nor to giue trueth to the books of the holy Ghost but to discerne which be the holie Ghosts books and which be not I aske you whether the Apocalyps and S. Iames Epistle besides other books of Scripture be not as Caluin and Beza against Luther confesse them to be Canonicall Scripture I am sure you will say they be Then whether were they b If they had not been receiued at the first they might not haue been receiued afterward at the first receiued of the whole Church for such or no I aske you further whether the Churches generall acceptation of them after due examination of them by the helpe of the holy ghost had made them any truer or better then they were before If not why then did not the Church receiue them generally at the first or why do you rather wrangle about it that all the world seeth was done in these bookes The cause why you would not haue the Church determine the canonicall Scriptures is because your priuate spirite being enemy to c That is to the wilful fansies of a few Romish prelates the general spirite and sentence of the whole Church you will rather seeme to preferre your owne iudgement then accept the worke of the holy ghost R. Abbot 34. AS touching the books of scripture Hierome testifieth thus of those bookes that we seclude from the canon a Hiero. in prolo Galeato They are not saith he in the canon they must be put amongst the Apocryphall writings And again b Idem praefat in libros solomo The Church readeth them but yet receiueth them not amongest canonicall Scriptures c Ruffin in expos symb apud Cypri Ruffinus that liued at the same time expresly witnesseth the same and that as he sayth out of the monuments of the Fathers So doth d Euseb eccle hist lib. 4. c 25. Eusebius out of Melito So e Athanas in synopsi Athanasius So f Epiphan de mensu ponderi Epiphanius So the g Concil Laodi ca. 59. councell of Laodicea And must we now in the end of the world beléeue the Roomish Lapidarie that these are Canonicall bookes Her obedient children may be so foolish as to beléeue her warrant herein but we know her héereby to be not a true Lapidarie but a false and presumptuous harlot The canonicall bookes that truely are such haue béen receiued for such from the beginning So doth S. Austen terme them h Augustin cont Cresco lib. 2. cap. 31. de bap con Dona. lib. ca. 3. canonem constitutum and confirmatum the canon appointed set downe and confirmed Whatsoeuer bookes were not then set downe deliuered and receiued for such they cannot now be warranted to be such If any man through simplicitie did afterwardes call in question any of those bookes as some did the Reuelation the Epistles to the Hebrewes and of S. Iames the Church did rightly correct their errour in that behalfe not newly approouing them for canonicall which were not so taken before but defending them to be canonicall as they had béen before receiued And therefore the world doth not sée that the Church of Christ did that then which the Synagogue of Roome presumeth now in that contrarie to the iudgement of that Church she taketh vpon her to make them canonicall which were not from the beginning deliuered to the Church for such Neither doe we in the canon of scriptures follow our own priuate spirite but the expresse testimonie and consent of the ancient Church As for his hypocriticall spéeches of the help and work of the holy Ghost they are but the same that the Moâ—tanistes the Marcionites the Valentinians and other olde heretickes did vse who when they taught against the holy ghost yet pretended the instinct and inspiration of the holy Ghost P. Spence Sect. 35. INdex Expurgatorius altereth no Doctours wordes but where it is certaine that heretickes haue corrupted or a T 〈…〉 tâ— say where the church of R 〈…〉 seeâ—â— any 〈◊〉 coÌ„trary â—o her faâ—â—e doctrine The Fathers speake like heretickes when they say any thing contrary to her learning where all the worlde knoweth their priuate opinions were amisse and erronious there it giueth a note thereof truly In later writers it noteth what is suspicious and to be taken heed of in forged bookes heretickes bookes and hereticall editions and hereticall prefaces censures and notes or hereticall commentaries it controlleth them and great b It is great charitie in the church of Râ—me to blot out as hereticall whatsoeuer is contrary to their damnable heresieâ— charitie so to do All which is good and therfore vniustly to be found fault with but of such whose backes being galled do winse at that booke set out with great iudgements to teach vs to beware of heretickes corruptions and traps R. Abbot 35. THis defence of the Index Expurgatorius is shamelesse The authours of it knew so much well inough and therefore would haue had it kept close but the prouidence of God hath to their reproach brought it to light It is not méete that the iudgements of learned men either old or new should be subiect to the fancies of a few wilful persons that they may dislike in them and put out what pleaseth them But welfare a childe that though his mother plaie the théefe and the harlot neuer so much yet will boldly stand in defence of her that she is an honest woman And indéed I maruell not that this dealing séemeth verie tollerable and lawfull with these men because I know that the corrupting and deprauing forging of bookes is a very speciall meanes and helpe for the vpholding and patronaging of the Roomish abhominations Falshood cannot be vpholden but by falshood and he that taketh a bad cause in hand must néeds vse bad meanes to colour and cloake his euill doing Thus a Francise Iunius in praefat indic Expurga Franciscus Iunius reporteth that being at Lyons in France in the yeare of our Lord 1559. and comming to the Correctour of Frelonius his print with whom he was familiarly acquainted the same Correctour shewed him a very faire print of Ambrose his workes Which when Iunius commended the Corrector told him that notwithstanding the fairenesse of it yet if he were to buy Ambrose he would rather buy it in any other copie theÌ„ in that The reason wherof he told him for that whereas they had printed the booke faithfully according to