imployment to be engaged with such a Writer as this for if you confute his Charge and his Arguments he falls a commending himself and his Book as fast as he can and if you make it plain that you have confuted him and that he has nothing to reply he takes occasion to write another Book and to commend himself the faster for it and to rant as much or more than he did at first Which makes me almost wish that the Defender had not promised an account of these Reflections For the Man's Confidence will serve him seven years hence as well as it does now and I doubt something better for his Force encreases as that of Anteus did with his Falls 'T is impossible that ever he should want Matter for he can repeat the very same to the Worlds end if he lives so long and tho' it has been considered by his Answerers never so particularly 't is all one for that he is grown past taking any notice of such things For a little variety he has no more to do but to study some ridiculing Harangue and to gather Flowers from Bartholomew-Fair the Pall-mall the Gaming Houses P. 1 8 17 19. the Hind and Panther and such like for the adorning of his Characters and so he is compleatly furnished for a new Book To which we can have no more to say than to that which we had just before it unless it be to admire the man's Confidence which we have admired so much already that when we are a little more used to it we shall not admire it at all That he has hitherto behaved himself in this manner is what himself and all the world knows that has taken notice of this Controversy or at least he has been very careful that they should know it now if they could be ignorant of it before The Author of the View had deduced the whole Dispute from the beginning and it was made exceedingly plain that this man had dropt the Defence not only of every Point he began with but of those very pretences upon which he did so and the worst of all was that the same Author had made him as it now appears sick of his last Reply too where he had diverted himself with so many things that were nothing to his first business This now was a very great streight and there was no other way to be taken but either in Prudence to sit still and so let the world forget what was past or with exceeding Modesty to confess that a man may be mistaken and so forth or with the excess of the contrary quality to do as the Representer has now done For now he has taken up a pretence which he dropt the Defence of but in his Second Reply viz. See View p. 24. That his Answerer did sometimes appeal to private Authors and so all that he has said ought to go for nothing An Answer says he is set forth to amuse the World as the fashion is Pres p. 9. with the banding and tossing to and fro of many School-Questions but never coming to the point of disproving the Character of a Papist Represented or endeavouring to shew that the Faith as there stated was not really the Faith of Catholicks nay this was scarce so much as offer'd at except in Two or three Points which yet ought to have been the main design of the Answerer and the only way of giving it a just Reply Thus he presses upon us with mere confidence in which tho possibly he might feel no checks from his own Conscience yet 't is something strange that he should not fear his Readers Knowledg for that Author had sufficiently disproved the Character of a Papist Represented if to shew from Point to Point that it was no sincere Character be to disprove it He made it plain that almost every where too much was put in or too little as might best serve the design of setting the Papist out fairly to the people The Representer should have shewn that the Answer came short of that Account which the View gave of it That every Question was particularly and exactly stated View p. 3 4. That the Sense of the Church of Rome about it was shewn by the Decrees of their Trent Council or their Roman Catechism or their publick Offices and their most approved Divines and Casuists as the matter required And by the way all the false Colours of the Representer were taken off where he thought it for his purpose to lay them on too Foul on his Misrepresenting or too Fair on his Representing side If this was done as it was said and so done that the Representer has long since dropt his Two or three Exceptions against it and never from the first ventured upon a particular Reply to it surely he has been rubbing hard ever since to come forth now and think to put us off with saying that the Answer never came up to the Point c. Indeed he brings over Two or three Particulars again in this Preface which he Represented upon in his first Book But is it to compare his own Characters with his Adversaries Answer and to shew that he had not come to the Point No such matter I assure ye but only to let us know That when they represent themseves right we call it New Popery which he would make the world believe is all that we now have to save our selves from being accounted Calumniators which he pursues with such noise in saying the same thing over and over again that if Repetition of little Matter and more Words were an Argument of Truth he would be the most convincing Writer that ever set up for the Cause For setting aside the Prophets that cried from Morning to Noon O Baal hear us I think no man has out-done the Representer in this kind of Eloquence especially when it came into his head to be revenged on the Pulpits those High-places the Pulpits for all the mischief they have done to Popery and to inveigh against that unlucky distinction between Old and New Popery He tells us P. 8. That several things were heard from the Pulpits which were found not to square with Truth and that from those High-places the innocent Hind had been made to look like Tygers Wolves and Bears All is true Representing when Popery is to be shown from the Pulpits P. 12. In this manner did Protestants treat Papists in this manner are they now handled by Protestants and yet all must pass for true Representing And because the Cathâ—licks will not own that to be their Faith and Religion as it stands thus stretched and racked upon Protestant Tenters and Hyperbolies the cry is now forsooth they are ashamed of their Old Religion and have brought in a New Popery A poor shift God knows No we are not ashamed of our Old Religion To us the Old and the New is all the same c. But this Cant of New-Popery must be kept up to save the
that those words of Representing and Misrepresenting had rung in his Head so long that while he is awake he thinks of nothing but chastising Misrepresenters and Dreams of it when he sleeps and can find nothing but Misrepresentation in every Line of ours that he reads and as if there were some cause to fear that he may happily forget every Name that he has but that of a Representer To pretend as he does that that Author had not taken care to shew the State of the Controversy as it was and that he intends to make this appear as far as concerns the Representer and then presently to fall upon the Dissenter's Case is such a confusion of things that there must be a disturbance in a Man's head to put them together And 't is still a worse sign that he speaks of that Author 's calling upon him Now of late says he an upstart sort of a Misrepresenter has called upon me For what should it be but the working of his own Head that made him fancy that Author called upon him where I dare say he never so much as thought of him For who would think that the Representer should be at all concerned for the true stating of matters that concerned the Dissenters It must be confessed that these are ill tokens when they come thick upon one another for some such disorder as I am speaking of appears in the very first Line of his Preface which is so much the more remarkble because that which is uppermost usually comes first 'T is my fate says he always to have to do with Misrepresenters By which it should seem that this conceit is never out of his Head. If he does but touch a Book written by any of us his Imagination presently transforms it into a Misrepresenter And what is meerly his own Fancy viz. That he has always to do with Misrepresenters he takes to be his Fate as if he were destined to be the scourge of this sort of men And so The Present state of the Controversy coming cross in his way the Author of it seemed to him to be an upstart sort of Misrepresenter as the Flock of Sheep seemed an Army of Giants to the wise Don who also thought himself called upon to redress the wrongs that were done any where in the World. But I will not peremptorily conclude what the Man ails all this it may be is but design and the Man has a serious meaning tho' at first sight one would be apt to think that he is a little too much shattered to have any meaning at all It may be said that there is this pertinence in his matter that it seems to serve a General end viz. to do the Church of England a good turn which he has been owing to her ever since he fell off to the Church of Rome and this may be all the pertinence that he very much cares for only because 't is good to keep to a point or at least to seem so to do therefore when he has raked up a few more materials he knows how to dispose them under these words of Misrepresenting and Representing and then out comes a Book If it be thus he was only to blame for streightning himself at first and for promising long since that he would keep to his Representing Post He should have called that Book of his which led the way to the rest The First Part of Miscellanies against the Church of England For this Title would have served him to have written Books Part after Part as long as he should live And I think the pertinence of 'em would never have been questioned But what has the Author of the Present State said to bring upon himself the charge of Misrepresenting Why it seems he made bold to say that some of the Clergy of this City had written Cases for the satisfaction of the Dissenters in the plainest and most inoffensive manner they could But where is the Misrepresentation Was not the manner plain and inoffensive Yes says the Representer Pref. p. 2. as to the Method and Stile in which those Tracts were penned for all as I know there was plain and inoffensive writing So that for all as he knows the Matter too might be as plain and inoffensive as the Method and Stile of those Books for I perceive he never read them What then can be the Misrepresentation To be short it lies in this That the Dissenters were at that time urged with other Persuasives P. 3. by Writ by Summons by Seising of Goods c. Well but did that Author deny this No but he did not mention it and therefore he did not represent the state of the Controversy between the Churches of England and of Rome P. 2. as it is but as he would have it thought to be viz. because he did not at all Represent the state of the Dissenters with respect to the Laws when the Divines wrote for their satisfaction He that can hale and pull in things in this fashion will never want matter but to let that pass and to wander along with him for a while as every man is bound to do that will keep him company I cannot understand that it was that Author's Duty to make the least mention of the execution of the Laws upon the Dissenters unless the Representer can prove That because he either studies to be impertinent or cannot help it therefore we are all bound to be so too The Stater's business was to give an account to his Friend how the Controversie stood between us and the Church of Rome and he introduced his Matter by shewing That the Divines having written some Discourses for the sake of the Dissenters and that with good success did then apply themselves to the Controversies with the Romanists But because he did not enter upon an Enquiry whether the Laws had not more to do in this matter than the Discourses of the Divines therefore the Representer talks of that Author 's imposing upon his Reader with poor shifts in a matter so well known P. 3. and that he must not pass for a true Stater of Controversie who thus tells the Story by halves so that unless we drag in matters that are nothing to the purpose as he does we tell Stories by halves and no body will be ever able to State Controversie right that cannot foresee what rambling thoughts will come into the Representer's head the next time he writes a Book But since he is fallen upon this business he may now please to observe That neither the Stater nor any of those Divines of whom he made mention used any of those Perswasives of which the Representer speaks but saved the Dissenters from them as far as it consisted with their Duty and were by some people called Names for their pains But I perceive his trouble is that the Stater should believe those Discourses had good Success For says the man 't is very probable that these sort of Perswasives sent
more to the Church than the Discourses so that by what I remember of those times P. 3. had not the Church of England taken the Lash in hand as well as the Pen the Churches had continued as empty as they are at this day Our Representer plainly insinuates by the way that our Churches are somewhat empty at this day and this is the very man who upon the present occasion observes That altho dealing out of Relations by Tale and by Scraps might pass in a matter beyond our memory P. 4. as of the Council of Trent of Lateran of Pope Gregory yet to come thus with half Stories in a Concern of Yesterday oh that is not to be endured But whether our Churches are as it were empty is without all doubt a Concern of to day and for a man not to tell half-Stories of such a Concern but whole Stories the quite contrary What is that I pray That he thinks it probable that the Dissenters were more wrought upon by Sufferings than by the Discourses of the Divines I easily grant for he knows of a certain Church that has done more by those sort of Perswasives than by all that ever was written in her behalf as all Europe and both the Indies can bear her witness Doubtless therefore he thinks it probable that our Church was a gainer by the execution of the Penal Laws at that time but whether it was so or not is another Question I find that where he mends the Staters Account for him he would have had him to say P. 4. That it was very likely for such is the frailty of wicked man that more were frighted and whipt to Church than came thither by Force of our Reasoning and Discourses By the way he should learn to be more grave and serious than to make sport with the Frailty of wicked man which is a thing that a good Priest ought to lament and to remedy what he can by his Doctrine and Example When he has to do with his Adversaries if he finds that any of them grows exceedingly impertinent and when Argument forsakes them fall to Ridiculing or that they use Tricks to cover their Convictions and do but discover them so much the more let him lay it on handsomly without sparing if he likes this way of Correction best But for a Priest of the living God to rally with the Frailty of wicked man when he means nothing by it but to help out a Lampoon upon a single Adversary whom he does not love is very unpriest-like and a more likely way to make Atheists than to mend that which he it seems can make merry withal the Frailty of wicked man. Well But 't is not so certain that when the Dissenters were under the execution of the Laws that then I say human Frailty wrought that way which he speaks of for it might work the quite contrary way and the Orders for that purpose coming from above much about the same time the offence which they took at that might prejudice many of them against all that the Divines could say tho the Divines had no hand in it for mankind is apt to be provoked as well as to be frighted and to act inconsiderately in one as well as in the other case But there is this Reason to think that they were rather the Discourses than the Penalties which filled our Churches That the Prosecutions have been at an end a good while and 't is therefore to be hoped that the virtue of the Discourses did the good work at first and goes on to do it still for whatever the Representer fancies the Churches are as full at this day as they were in those times when he pretends the Church of England took the Lash in hand They are so full that a Reverend Father may come to spy and hearken and think to escape in the Throng without being observed and what if the Representer has been upon this Mission himself Then I say he shall Represent for those that will trust him but for me and my Friends never whilst he breathes As for his Story of one Mr. P. 2. de Laune I know nothing of it The Representer says he wrote a Book and was sent to the Compter but he does not say it was for writing that Book tho he would insinuate some such matter from which modesty of his if there be any truth at all in the story one might venture to conclude that he knew the man was sent to Prison for something else And yet if he were sent to Prison for the writing of that Book but if neither that Divine whom he wrote against nor any of the rest contributed to it so much as by a wish the Representer stings us not by this Reflection Of this I have told him something of my own knowledg already For what he says of some that were starved and of Orphans and Widows that were made so by the Penalties inflicted upon the Dissenters it is to be hoped that our Representer over-does the business and rants somewhat too Tragically P. 3. For my part I have always thought that the use of those Perswasives which he talks of does at the long run more mischief to a Church than good and if I may speak my own experience I do not find this Spirit of Moderation to prevail any where so much as in the Church of England But the Representer brings over the Sufferings of Dissenters for nothing else but to prejudice them against us I will not here enter into an Enquiry what reason there is for it but this one thing I will say That I am no less desirous than himself that the Dissenters should be very often told of their Sufferings in those times only if a man will be telling them then as the Representer says it would do well not to tell the Story by halves but if he does then to return him some of his own words I do not think that with all his poor shifts P. 3. his Readers will be imposed upon in a matter so well known And therefore I no less than the Representer desire that the Dissenters would think of all that is past as long as they have a day to live As to the Tracts that were soon after written against the Papists the Representer observes that Two things were not mentioned by the Stater upon this occasion which we had upon the former Not the Plain and Inoffensive manner of Writing nor any News of Success which these Discourses had upon the Parties designed For the former he says P. 5. That the Stater was too conscious of the scurrilous and bitter Spirit with which some of them were penned that one against Transubstantiation being Instance enough By which he would insinuate that others of them too were written in the same manner How hard is it for some men to be sincere in any thing I remember indeed some of these Expressions in that Discourse which he produces such
Present State the Author of it either made but very small faults in drawing it up or he is very much obliged to the Representer for letting the great ones pass His next quarrel with the Stater is for making the Roman party the Aggressors P. 6. and the Papist Misrepresented c. the beginning of this Book-War For this Man will have the Onset to have been given by Dr. Sherlock in his Sermon before the House of Commons which was published as near as I can learn about Two Months before the Representer came forth The Author of the Agreement c. concurs with him in this Objection as he does in Humour to admiration tho' they have their several ways For one of them proves that we are Agreed with the Church of Rome and the other that we Misrepresent the same Church and yet so like one another as if the same Planet govern'd them both But as to the Doctor 's Sermon I do acknowledg that there was one passage in it that grated upon the Papists And I have two things to say to it First the Stater assures me that he did not think of that Sermon at all when he was at work and could therefore have no design in omitting it but withal now that he is told of it he cannot grant that a single Reflection in a Sermon that was afterwards Printed at the desire of the House ought to be esteemed the beginning or the occasion of those Controversies And he believes that if we had published such a like Book for this Church as the Representer did for his Party and one of their Sermons had been not long before published by Command with a like Reflection upon us they would for all that have thought us to be the Agressors He says farther that he spake only of Discourses that professedly treated of these Controversies and therefore that if he had thought of that Sermon he thinks it was not his Duty to take notice of it and he wonders that the Representer should be so overset with a Cavilling humour as not to observe those words State p. 4. that from the Death of our late Royal Sovereign our Divines thought fit to be of the Defensive side and for some time published no more DISCOVRSES OF THAT KIND but waited to see c. In the next place I must tell the Representer my thoughts and leave others to judge of them as they see cause I say then that the Representer published indeed his Book about two Months after the Sermon but if the Truth could be known I would venture all that little I am worth that the Representer had been hammering out that Book some Months before that Sermon was made For not to insist upon it that he has taken more time to write Books that are a great deal worse for perhaps he was otherwise imployed or gave himself some convenient Relaxation This I believe all considering persons will grant me that to represent Popery in a kind of Protestant dress is so nice and withal so dangerous tho' now it seems so necessary an undertaking that no performance can require greater Art and Application of mind Between the danger of giving up a point which the Church must not quit under the penalty of forfeiting her Infallibility and the danger of guarding it too plainly to the offence of Protestants the Undertaker is obliged to have his Eyes about him and to look on every side Every expression must be exactly weighed It will sometimes happen that but one will please which will not be thought of till many others are tried and rejected Sometimes again when the first of all is not liked after the rejecting of many others that are found more liable to exception the first must be taken with all its faults So that here will be much altering and some restoring and not a little sining and superfining And when one Man has done what he can one Man's judgment in a Cause so perillous is not to be trusted It must be revised by others and because faults will come in one upon the neck of another where every place is a place to let them in it must be revised again and again as the Bishop of Condom can tell this Man if he needs that any body should tell him Now tho' the Papist Misrepresented and Represented does not rise up to the Spirit and the Art of the Exposition of the Catholick Faith yet considering the untractableness of the Matter it was no ill wrought piece of work and excepting that blunder of his that when he was a Protestant he believed the Sermons of the Papists to be in un unknown Tongue as well as their Prayers and two or three less considerable misfortunes it was conveniently contrived for its end which was to amuse less thinking people In a word it appears to be a work of so much labour and time that I believe few will question but tho' the Doctor 's Sermon was first rigg'd out yet the Papist Misrepresented and Represented was upon the Stocks a good while before And then the Representer's Conscience should have forbidden him to find fault with the Stater for intimating that the Gentlemen of the Roman Communion were first guilty of breaking the Peace This I think is enough in return to a small exception but whether it be or not the Stater is resolved to put himself upon the mercy of the World for the future rather than he will run out into any more Apologies upon so slender an occasion To proceed it was said in the Present State that we were surprized to find no notice taken of the former Tracts against Popery in the Representer's first Book This he turns well enough P. 7. confessing that it must needs be a matter of surprize That the Papists now enjoying the Royal Favour should after so many provocations be contented to make no other return than in a short moderate and peaceable Tract to give an account of their Faith and Doctrine c. And so he takes occasion to praise their Meekness and Charity To all which it might be enough to say that so long as it does no body any hurt other men may be safely allowed to commend themselves and let them consider whether it will do them any good But that if it were not more difficult to Answer some Books than to give a Reason for not Answering them in all likelyhood we had heard the Victories of these Writers more celebrated at this time than their Meekness and Charity But whereas he magnifies the Good Spirit of his short moderate and peaceable Tract upon this score That there was no upraiding the Church of England Divines in it notwithstanding Abusive Reflections c. he does in effect confess of the first View p. 65. what was proved of all his Books but the first That the Church of England Divines were intended in them as we were very sure that they were He has for some time lost that wariness which
credit of the Pulpits P. 13. And were it not for this little come-off this poor shift of New-Popery they would be eternally blemisht with the foulest of Imputations that of Misrepresenting of Calumniating of inventing scandals against their neighbour 'T is evident now to those that look upon Popery as it appears amongst us at this day with an unprejudiced eye that it has quite another Face other Colours other Features than they have painted her with for so many years from the PVLPITS All that they have heard of from these HIGH PLACES has been full of Dread and Horror Cruelty in her Looks Malice and Wickedness in her Heart Blood-thirsting in her Desires c. If it be possible he will make the Pulpits hear of all these things again and therefore he goes on Where are all these Abominations these marks of the Beast SHEW VS PVLPITS SHEW Vs Where is her Cruelty her Bloodiness her Tyranny her Arbitrary Power How many Throats hath she cut Where has she wrong'd her neighbours Where is This and Where is That and Where are all these Things SHEW VS And if none of these things can be shewn P. 14. then the PVLPITS must pass for False Prophets Misrepresenters and disturbers of the Nation And what Return now do the PVLPITS make to this demand Oh! This is a New sort of Popery The Papists are weary of their OLD Religion and have taken up a NEW one Now this is admirable if the man had but known when he was well but he has not done yet by a great deal for having observed that the Papists are found by experience to be very good men the Pulpits are sure to hear of it again P. 15. How says he shall the Characters of the PVLPITS be reconciled with this Experience Oh! The Papists dissemble their Principles and are ashamed of their OLD Religion and this forsooth acquits the PVLPITS And the same poor shift is to serve them upon all occasions or else what would become of the Pulpits If the Papists do this good thing this is presently set out for NEW Popery The Papists declare this Doctrine This again is NEW Popery The Papists teach that Doctrine and the other Doctrine This is all NEW Popery P. 16. And it evidently appearing to the world That Catholicks neither believe nor do as was represented by the PVLPITS the only remedy for the keeping their Credit whole is to cry out This is not the OLD Religion This is a NEW Popery And indeed it must needs be a NEW Popery to those that knew no more of Popery than the PVLPITS shewed them For they who never heard more of Popery than PVLPIT Characters must needs think the present Popery a NEW Popery And who shall ever make them believe that this is that OLD PVLPIT POPERY those OLD PVLPIT PAPISTS which they have so often seen painted out in their Sunday Lectures For the Church of England in her PVLPITS made Popery and the Papists so unlike what they now appear that Popery must be cut into an OLD and a NEW Popery to save their Reputation i. e. The Reputation of the Pulpits And thus he runs on for five or six pages together P. 17. P. 14. P. 18. crying out PVLPITS PVLPITS OLD POPERY NEW POPERY Pulpit Popery Protestant-Rack-Popery Sons of Anak-Popery Wry-neck'd Hunch-back'd Swag-bellied Broken-legg'd and Splay-footed Popery which is the similitude he took from the Posture-Master in the Pall-mall as he did the former out of the Scripture Certainly if one of us had answered him in this manner and he had got a Companion it had been the most entertaining sort of Controversie that ever was written P. 9. and the world will never care for the banding and tossing to and fro of School-Questions any more after the benefit of tossing a few Exclamations to and fro as he can do it shall be well understood Now one would be glad to know what the meaning of all this is and I think 't is this he had observed that after all the vain attempts P. 9. his first Book remaining in its full force now at last a new one was invented viz. That the Belief of Catholicks as there deciphred is a New Popery And he thought that this new force which we had raised against him and his Book was so contemptible that he had nothing to do but to shout it out of the Field The truth is after he had perswaded himself that all the Attempts upon his Book were vain he might easily believe any thing to his own advantage and if what he said of his Book that it remained in full force had been said of himself no body would have wondred at him I have already discovered some fear that all is not well in his head but if it be so his disorder inclines the right way and to make him happy for if a man has a strong fancy that he has won Battels and conceits himself a very Emperor and another Julius Caesar or perhaps Caesar himself it may be as some say an unkind part to bring him to his true understanding But if the Representer should merely affect this way of writing and be sensible all the while how the matter stands I pity him with all my heart and so much the more lest any of those that have not read what was written against his First Book should believe that it stands in its full force because he says so for there are men in the world that believe implicitely and this Gentleman must reckon for those that believe him so as well as they for themselves If his Livelihood comes in by writing Controversies he should consider that there are many honest ways of getting a Livelihood and no necessity of taking this I will here take occasion to say a good word of my self and that is that rather than prevaricate in things of this nature I would make very hard shifts If it were too late to apply my self to Handicraft Trades yet may be I could dig or the like but if I could not dig I would not be ashamed to beg Perhaps I might get something by turning my Pen another way and writing of things where I had more liberty as by writing Almanacks or any such thing where Mistakes will be committed in abundance and are forgiven in course and will be sure to do no body any hurt But to impose upon men in Books that treat of Divinity is one of the last dishonest things I would take to I should think of that and of taking a convenient stand near the Town much about the same time and the reason why he that does the one does not the other is because all mens Abilities do not lye the same way The Representer I imagine will subscribe to these Notions and perhaps bid me apply them effectually to my self which if he does I will heartilty thank him for it and promise to take all the good Counsel he shall give me as well as I
who saw Misery before them which they had already so deeply tasted of that their Hearts were quite sunk with the apprehension of what was just coming But is this dealing for the Credit I will not say of the Managers but of the Cause they serve and of the Method that is now taken to serve it by Expositions and Representations Why if no more sincerity were used in Fairs and Markets than this comes to in the Concerns of Everlasting Salvation Men had better live alone and make what shift they can each one for himself than to have any thing to do with one another I was going to descant upon every one of the other seven Articles but to shew the Intrigue of them though never so gravely would look so like a Farce that I count it decent to forbear lest I should seem to make sport with the Sins and Miseries of Men. I shall only give the Reader this Note that the Relation only says there were Difficulties on both Sides but that by the wording of the Conditions it appears very probable that the Citizens had brought them in another Form when the Capitulation began but that this was all they could obtain and now that they are reduced to this Form the sagacity and watchfulness of one side is no less discovered than of the other But O God to what a pass is the State of Religion brought amongst Christians I have here given the Representer an Example of reconciling Protestants to the Church of Rome upon Terms much after his own way only 't is something finer though the Application I confess was more rugged the Principality having felt the Dragoons to the ruin of it and the utmost Extremities being threatned in two hours in case of refusal to subscribe Thus much at least they gained that they might not be obliged to go to Mass for three Months nor to be present at the Offices of the Church which was a plain demonstration that these miserable Persons had subscribed with an unsatisfied Mind and that Vnion and Submission was the thing aimed at by the Reconcilers but whether it was done upon the Convictions of the Citizens what cared they I can give no farther account of this Matter but shall only put the Representer in mind of one Passage in the State of the Controversy which he cared not to reflect upon State. p. 23. viz. That after the Bishop of Meaux had treated of a Reconciliation upon Terms more moderate than his own Exposition while the Dragoons were at the Gates he came in three Months and treated them now as Persons Reconciled and without any regard to his own Promises or to their Consciences let the Dragoons loose upon those that refused to compleat their Conviction by going to Mass The Representer may from all this pick out some Reason why he ought to be ashamed of his Offer that we shall be received upon the Terms of his Book IV. I come next to his Quotation of Mr. Montagu from whence he would prove that the Church of England began too early to Misrepresent Papists to deserve now much credit in her Representings Appello Caesarum c. 23. p. 60 c. But what shall I call our Representer here Not the modestest thing in Nature for Mr. Montagu is most vilely abused by him while he makes him bring in the Homilies as representing the Papists That which he says of them is this That they contain certain godly and wholesome Exhortations to move the People to Honour and Worship Almighty God but not as the publick Dogmatical Resolutions confirmed of the Church of England And again They have not Dogmatical Positions or Doctrine to be propugned and subscribed in all and every Point as the Books of Articles and of Common Prayer have Then follow the words which the Representer begins with They may seem secondly to speak somewhat too hardly and stretch some Sayings beyond the use and practice of the Church of England both then and now which last words the Representer mentions not nor these that follow immediately And yet what they speak may receive a fair or at least a tolerable construction and mitigation well enough For you have read peradventure how strangely some of the Ancientest Fathers do speak and how they hyperbolize sometimes in some Points in their popular Sermons which in Dogmatical Decisions they would not do nor avow the Doctrine by them delivered resolutivè Now the occasion of all this was that Mr. Mountagu was charg'd by his Adversaries for granting an allowable use of Images contrary to the Homilies of the Church of England in the Sermon against the Peril of Idolatry which seemeth to inveigh against all use of them To this Mr. M. answered as before producing the Homilies not as speaking of what the Papists do or not do but as universally condemning the use of Images in Churches P. 262. And he gives this account of it more fully than I need to transcribe viz. That as the Fathers spake against Images with some tartness and inveighing sort lest the Christians who had been Pagans themselves and now lived amongst Pagans might learn to worship Idols So our Predecessors coming late out of Popery and conversing with Papists and knowing that Images used to be crept unto incens'd worshipped and adored amongst them might if they were suffered to stand as they did induce them to do as they had sometime done and therefore in a godly Zeal such as moved Ezekias to destroy the Brazen Serpent they spake thus vehemently and indeed hyperbolically against them For the People with whom they then dealt were by all means â—o be preserved from the taint and tincture of their Superstitious Practices This is the whole truth of the business which the Representer did not think fit to shew but without taking the least notice of the occasion and subject of this Chapter runs away with a few Phrases that he pick'd out from the rest as best fit for his purpose such as hyperbolizing stretching upon the Tenters by all means and the like and would make as if Mr. Mountague confessed the Church of England regarded not how she represented Papists and Popery Which wretched dealing is according to no common Honesty but his own and whoever goes on at this rate will write himself out of all Credit and there will be no need of answering his Books 'T is to the same purpose that he brings in Mr. M. Pref. p. 19. again not thinking it any Reflection upon him if he does not altogether agree or subscribe to the Doctrine of the Book of Homilies in his time because it being a Book fitted for a Season and declared necessary for THESE Times what great wonder if what was a good Doctrine under Edward VI. was not so in the time of King James c. For thus he would perswade us that we alter and change our Religion according to Times and Seasons which is what we justly charge upon them The Compilers of
Misrepresenters This Design he largely pursued in his long Bill The Author of the View having shewn him that he was foully to blame in charging even those Protestant Writers whom he singled out took a course to divert him for the future from this wild and unprofitable way of proceeding and that by letting him see that if he was resolved to persist in this way he would lose by it since he would not be able to excuse his own from those Faults which he had without just cause charged upon our Men. And so he shewed by a few Instances how Protestants had been used by Papists Now one would have thought that at least he should have reinforced his Charge upon our Men and defended his own against the Answerer if he was still resolved to continue his Clamours of Misrepresentation But what has he done He has taken about a Years time to consider of the Matter and at last replies not to any one Defence that had been made for those whom he had put into his Long Bill and do's not offer the least Syllable for one of those that the Answerer had put into his Short One. I confess he says that the Answerer made but Forced Excuses for our Friends Now as the Representer has behaved himself I think my Credit may be good enough to encounter his I say therefore that the Answerer made no forced Excuses because for the most part there were no Excuses at all but down-right Vindications And as for the Excuses that are there if there be any such I do not desire the Reader to take my word for them if he will promise not to take the Representers neither but to go to the View and Judg for himself After all the Representer is to be commended for one thing that he says the Answerer drew him back to his first Book in reality to put a stop to this part of the Controversy and that we might hear no farther of the Church of England 's Misrepresenting For though he meant this to the Answerer's Disgrace yet 't is true that this was one part of his Design for he saw the Representer was got upon an Idle Haunt and therefore shewed him that it would turn to no better account for him than any Body else But this was not all for the Answerer would have drawn him to his First Book that he might either like an able Man defend his Characters or like an honest Man confess that he could not which had been something towards the settlement of the State of the several Questions Though I think they must be acknowledged to be well setled by the Learned Answerer that first appeared against him since the Representer dares not go about to stir them But whereas he thinks he was fetched up to his First Book under a pretence of shewing him that he had drop'd his Cause and gone out of the way I confess all that too excepting the word Pretence For his Answerer did the Business so effectually that I forbid the Representer so much as to pretend to vindicate himself against those plain and particular Proofs of this thing that were brought against him For that he is well resolved against any such Pretence is plain to me from the Similitude wherewith he has fortified himself against all thoughts of any thing like a Reply to the View For says he this is nothing but what we see by daily experience that when two have been debating a Point a great while at length one that finds himself aground begins to unravel the whole Dispute from the beginning with you said this Pref. p. 23. and I said this and then you said this and I said this and you said this I hope the Reader will not so much as suspect that I have abused him in this but if he thinks it incredible that a Man in his Wits should put such silly stuff into a Book I cannot help it if he takes him to be out of his Wits but as for these Sayings I am sure he may find them in the Preface to his Third Part and though the Pages are not numbred he may find them in that Page to which I have referred in the Margin if he will please to number them himself And yet after all he would not have it thought that he is afraid to go back as far as to the Papist Misrepresented and Represented P. 23. Which he does for a notable Reason viz. to give us an account once more of his Design in writting that Book and of his Motive to it P. 24. His Design was to describe a Catholic as he is and as he is thought to be His Motive was an Observation of his that his Catholics suffered very much by Protestant Misrepresentations But that which follows is rare that he did not think himself obliged to give an account of both his Characters to Protestants Indeed as for the Character of a Papist Misrepresented he looked upon that as something relating to them But as for that of a Papist Represented it belonged not to Protestants to meddle with that at all but only to his pretended Catholics For says he to whom should the examination of a System of any ones Faith belong besides those whose Faith it is said to be I thank him heartily It seems we are to take from him a System of Popery without examining whether it be as he speaks exact and true or not and the reason is plain because as yet 't is not our Faith and therefore the examination of it belongs not to us But when we are become Papists upon his Terms then if we please we may examine whether it was wisely or foolishly done of us to take a System of the Popish Faith upon his Word And therefore he could not be obliged to justify his Character of a Papist Rrepresented after we had shewn it was not a sincere Character because we meddle with a Matter that belonged not to us and was none of our Concern But for one thing we are not a little beholden to him that though in truth we were busy where we had nothing to do viz. in the First Second and Third Answers to him yet he mended the Matter for us by looking upon those Answers as chiefly relating to the Character of a Papist Misrepresented in which he confesses we had something to do So that though those Answers chiefly related to one as we thought yet he did but look upon them and forthwith they chiefly related to the other And so care is taken for the Character of a Papist Represented We will go to the other Character presently when I have given him a necessary Item upon this great Occasion viz. that when he draws any more double Characters he would take very great care that his Papist Misrepresented be drawn very honestly that we may the more easily swallow what he says of a Papist Represented lest if we find as hitherto we have done that he plays tricks in a Business
that does belong to us to examine we should have the less reason to take his word for a Business that does not belong to us to examine till we have taken his word for it And now for the other Character he observed it feems that the Answers appeared to be all from Church of England hands who seemed much concerned to clear themselves from being thought Misrepresenters and therefore they denied the Charge which as he says was part of their Plea. But therefore it might be expected that he should either make good his Characters against the Church of England-Men or hold his hand till some other Protestants came forth to clear themselves who had Misrepresented Popery just as he pretended some Protestants at least to have done But being resolved to write on and not being able to fasten any of his First Misrepresentations upon the Church of England he fell to ransack some Protestant Writers of our Communion for new Misrepresentations And so the Misrepresenting side of his Characters was left to shift for it self as well as the other But why were not his first Characters of a Papist Misrepresented either proved against us or charged upon some Body else or confessed to be impertinent and foolish as the second Answer shewed most of them to be What excuse has he for troubling the World with a Book of two Columnes neither of which he thought it his Duty to defend Why he tells you that he Fathered not the Character of a Papist Misrepresented upon the Church of England P. 25. but upon his own APPREHENSIONS So that he wrote half a Book against his own Apprehensions and as long as he was sure that his own Apprehensions would not write against him he was secure also that he should never be obliged to defend his Character of a Papist Misrepresented against any Body and therefore not against the Church of England Indeed he tells us some time after P. 26. that he set down some former Apprehensions of his own concerning Popery with some little Addition of what he had heard from others And again I said P. 27. that Character was according to the Apprehensions I had formerly of a Papist and if I extended it any farther than my self it was because I had found the same in others But he is as secure from being called to account by those others as by his former Apprehensions For if those others be some Body they must needs be ashamed to appear in this Business nor do I think they are capable of writing Books who charge the Consequences of what the Papists hold and do upon them as their declared and avowed Doctrines and Practices But if those others be No-body then there is No-body to hurt him He understood his Advantage in all this perfectly well For says he This i. e. that he had heard the same from others was no more to be denied or disproved than the other part as it related to himself 'T is enough says he for my purpose that in the Misrepresenting Character a Papist is expressed and made to appear otherwise than he is and that I apprehended a Papist something after that manner while I was a Protestant When this is disproved I have something to Answer but till then I can have forsaken no Defence because nothing has been said against me c. If this Man can forbear disproving himself all the World can not touch him whatever he makes bold to write But let him alone and he will in time do his own business as he has begun to do it here For now he tells us that he apprehended a Papist something after that manner Something is a dangerous word in this place For if he did not apprehend a Papist altogether or very much after that manner I wonder who is to answer for the rest For I reckon that his something and the little Addition he heard from others will hardly save half his Characters from being an Imposture if we judg of it by his own words But says he what then signifies all the noise of my having forsaken the Defence of the thirty seven Chapters in my first Book P. 25. I know not truly what else it should signify but an undeniable Truth that he has forsaken it For he has forsaken the Defence of the Papist Represented because that belonged not to us to meddle with but only to his Catholicks And he has forsaken the Papist Misrepresented too for though this Character something related to us as he once thought yet upon better consideration that belonged to us no more than that other but only to his own Apprehensions and to some others in the Clouds that are never likely to give him any disturbance Well but he has shewn however that the Church of England has misrepresented Papists though perhaps not according to his first Characters of a Papist misrepresented Now though this be a Charge which we might be concern'd upon other accounts to confess against those particular Men that are arraign'd by him or to disprove it Yet still it remains true that he has forsaken the Defence of both sides of his 37 Chapters as the Author of the View has unanswerably proved And in his wretched way of shifting it off he has confessed it as much to his shame as a plain Confession of it had been something for his credit But then I add that neither is it true that he has proved his new Charge of Misrepresentation either upon the Church of England or upon Church of England-Men For his saying that the Author of the Veiw seemed to give up the Point and that he freely owned it and the like is a stretch beyond what is at any time done for Mony. For the World sees that on the other hand that Author pretended to shew that the Man was in this also an egregious Misrepresenter of our Writers And one would think it was done effectually for the Man has dropt also the Defence of that his last Charge against the particular Answers that were made to it just as he dropt all before only with this Addition of Face now that the Author of the View had freely owned it and ingenuously confess'd it If this Answer of mine should fall into the hands of any of our Communion that have not read these his Reflections I must once more confess my self a little afraid lost they should think I banter him in this account of his shuffling off one thing after another And therefore I do solemnly assure the Reader that he does not say these things once only but he comes over with them again And because 't is an extraordinary case I must transcribe him and first where he speaks of his Character of a Papist Misrepresented Well says he but in so doing i. e. in proving his new Charge of Misrepresentation I left it seems the Defence of the thirty seven Chapters How so As to the first Character in all these Chapters I only undertook to set down
only in presence of their Images I stand corrected and desire to know what Rule I am to go by in judging what Popery is in all other Doctrines that I may not be mistaken again as I was before The Vindicator tells me That what I can prove from the express Words of the Churches Councils and what they have Positively defined and declared that is Popery as to Doctrines of Faith and nothing else Well I am now furnished for a Journey into France or Spain or Italy because now I know what Popery is as a Man ought to do that ventures into those Parts There for instance at Sevil or at Bourdeaux I am apt to talk as other foolish Men have done before me Crucifixes say I are upon no account whatsoever to be honoured with Divine Worship Images say I are not properly to be Worshipped No God forbid The Church requires it not and so forth But I soon find that this English Popery for so I must now call it does not agree with those Climates and that my Propositions are Heretical there and since the Definition of the Council of Trent intolerable I pretend truly that I had my Popery from a Man that admits nothing for Popery but what is proved from the express Words of Councils They laugh at me and assure me that my Propositions are to be found in Councils neither in express Words nor by any good Consequence I desire to know if my Propositions be contrary to the express Words of Councils They tell me that they are contrary to the Sense of the Council of Trent and I find that unless I could shew where the Council does expresly define against what they call Popery I shall have but little comfort of insisting upon my English Rule That nothing is Popery but what is expresly defined in Council For at Sevil I am forced to retract my Propositions as Heretical and at Bourdeaux I am Imprisoned and because I am not a Man of Renown my Lord the Bishop of Meaux will not break with his Friend the Archbishop for so small a Matter as the Ruine of a Man of no Renown And this I get by learning Popery from the English Vindicator of the French Expositor Now if this be not as clear a Demonstration of two Poperies as any Difference in the World needs to have a Man must be forsaken of his Reason and bereft of his Senses For if I say this thing is Popery here in England I am a Misrepresenter a Falsifier and a Calumniator too If I go into a warmer Sun and say in the simplicity of my Heart concerning the very same thing that it is not Popery there I am a Misrepresenter a Falsifier and a Calumniator too for saying so And which is somewhat worse if I do but hold my own they will not only say that I am a Misrepresenter but they will use me like one too or rather like an Heretic Now if on the other side a Man has but apprehension enough to understand when one thing contradicts another as for example that to say of a certain Doctrine concerning Image-Worship That it is Popery is a Contradiction to saying of the very same Doctrine That it is not Popery and that the contrary is Popery And if on the other side he has sense enough to understand when he is rail'd at by those that say 't is not Popery for saying that it is and worse than railed at by those that say 't is Popery for saying that 't is not I will give the Vindicator leave to write a Book as big as Aquinas his Summs and as full of Subtilty to prove to the same Man or to any Man else that for all this there are not Two Poperies among Papists This of Image-Worship is the Case about which the Vindicator called the Defender all to naught and concludes with this remarkable Saying What I have said in this Case is applicable to all others With all my heart for so say I too What I have said in this Case is applicable to all others viz. where we pretend this Distinction to hold between Old and New Popery I should now leave this Point but that he still insists with an unparallell'd Confidence that the Defender is a false Translator of that Passage in the Council of Trent which concerns Reliques I shall therefore once more go our Fallible way to work to vindicate his Translation and thereby to shew from the express Words of the Council of Trent that the Old Popery was to seek the Aid of Reliques The Council having established the Invocation of Saints Sess 6. proceeded also to establish the Veneration of Reliques in these Words That the Holy Bodies of the Holy Martyrs and of others who live with Christ which were the Living Members of Christ and the Temple of the Holy Ghost and to be raised up by him to Eternal Life and glorified are to be venerated by the Faithful by which many Benefits are from God bestowed upon Men. Ita ut affirmantes Sanctorum Reliquiis venerationem atque honorem non deberi vel eas aliaque sacra monumenta à fidelibus inutiliter honorari atque EORVM opis impetrandae causâ Sanctorum memorias frustra frequentari omnino damnandos esse So that they who affirm Veneration and Honour not to be due to the Reliques of the Saints or that those and other Sacred Monuments are unprofitably honoured by the Faithful and that for the obtaining of THEIR help the Memories of the Saints are in vain frequented are to be condemned This is a Literal Translation and I say That by THEIR Help we are to understand the Help of Reliques and other Monuments not as the Vindicator would have it of the Saints To put some Colour upon his own Translation he inverted the Order of the Words as the Defender accused him and he has said nothing to it But Their Help must be the Help of Reliques and Monuments because otherwise the Construction of the Latin is False and against Rule For had the Council meant what the Vindicator says the Words must have run thus Or that those and other Sacred Monuments are unprofitably honoured Vel eas aliaque sacra monumenta inutiliter honorari atque SANCTORVM opis impetrandae causâ EORVM memorias frustra frequentari and that for the obtaining of the Help of the Saints Their Memories are in vain frequented The Relative Eorum had this way been determined to the Saints and so it had been placed if that had been the meaning because otherwise Eorum would according to the Rules of Latin Construction fall to the share of Monumenta and this tho Eorum does by chance agree in Number and Gender with Sanctorum that comes afterward but which comes out of place there for Eorum to be referred to it because this Relative had a very good Antecedent of its own before This therefore I say That he who Translates a Latin Sentence according to true Latin