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A54844 The new discoverer discover'd by way of answer to Mr. Baxter his pretended discovery of the Grotian religion, with the several subjects therein conteined : to which is added an appendix conteining a rejoynder to diverse things both in the Key for Catholicks, and in the book of disputations about church-government and worship, &c. : together with a letter to the learned and reverend Dr. Heylin, concerning Mr. Hickman and Mr. Bashaw / by Thomas Pierce ... Pierce, Thomas, 1622-1691. 1659 (1659) Wing P2186; ESTC R44 268,193 354

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you a Papist and what Emissaries you have in all parts of the land * Ibid. p. 487. That you and the Worcester-shire Profession of Faith give too much coun●enance to the Socinian abominations Again † Ibid. p. 487. you say that the hardest measure you had from Doctor Owen was in his Socinian Parallel in no lesse then eleven particulars * Ibid. p. 516. That Master Crandon bestows a whole Epistle to tell the Reader how he detests your BLASPHEMY * Postcript to an Admonition to Mr. Eyre of Sarum And that the main substance of his Book against your Aphorismes is this That you are a Papist and the worser sort of them too Now if such men as these whom you acknowledge to be your Brethren both learned and judicious are not hastily to be credited in what they write against you notwithstanding their number as well as quality how much less may you look for credit in what you write against Grotius For first the Advocates for Grotius will except against you as his enemy vel si● de po●te dejiciendum and so not fit to be a Witnesse much lesse a Iudge Next you are but a single person Thirdly you fasten the name of Papist so very wrongfully upon some as if you were willing not to be credited when you cast it upon others For you tell Master Tombes * Dispute with Mr. Tombs of Infants Church-Membership and Baptism Edit 3. ● 397. Doctor Taylor no Papist that if he hath read all the books of Doctor Taylor he will no more reckon him among the Protestants having so much of the body of Popery in them But Sir if you have read his Book of Transubstantiation which must needs be one of the all you mention you will find new matter of Retractation Adde to that his two Letters which do wholly concern the whole Body of Popery and which as soon as you have read you will not think his Discourses of Original Sin can by their single force become sufficient to metamorphise him into a shape which he doth not onely disclaim himself but enable others to disclaim also and doth antidote some against the contagion of that Disease with which you peremptorily speak him to be infected One thing comes into my minde upon this occasion of which I would be glad to have some account You say in * See your Chr. Concord p. 49. and compare it with p. 46. of the same book and with p. 100. of your Grotian Relig. one Book wherein you speak of Popish Bishops who lurk under the name of Episcopal That all their Writings or Discourses do carry on the Roman Interest That in those of them who write of Doctrinals or Devotion one may find the plain footsteps of common Popery You say You are loth to name men but you could shew a great deal of Popery in divers such books which you see much in Gentlemens hands as written by an Episcopal Doctor In contradiction to one important part of which words your being loth to name men you do name Doctor Taylor in your book above cited Bishop Wren and Bishop Pierce you also name in that Book in which you professe you are loth to name them as I shall shew by and by In the mean time I must challenge you but in the spirit of love and meeknesse to make good your words above written or to retract them That if Popish Divines do lie lurking under the name of Episcopal they may be punish'd for their Hypocrisie Or if it is onely your fiction that you may make reparation for so much wrong For again † Christ. Conco●d p 45 ●6 c. your charge of Cassandrian Popery is indefinitely laid against Episcopal Divines who lie mask'd here in England to do the Pope the greater service And although you now plead that you did not intend to raise a jealousie on all the Episcopal Divines p. 103. yet I believe you intended to raise a jealousie on the most because you feared not to name Bish. Wren and Bish. Pierce as a couple of your fancied Cassandrian Papists who yet are known to be as perfect persevering Protestants as you to be a Presbyterian if yet I may say you are truly such And though you judge it unmeet to name even those who you say have given you just cause of suspicion because it may tend to breach of peace and to the harder censuring and usage of the persons which you say is none of your desire p. 100. yet you have nam'd too many it seems against your own judgment who gave you no cause at all and have left your Readers to judge by them of the rest Nay without exception or dis●rimination you name the Bishops and the Kings Chaplains and other Doctors Admit some Papists did lurk amongst them I hope you will argue nothing from thence but that themselves were no Papists For now you openly confesse that the Papists are crept in among all sects the Quakers Seekers Anabaptists Millenaries Levellers Independents yea and the Presbyterians also p. 99 100. Nay you farther make a Confession for which I commend your ingenuity that the Pope and the Italians might very probably have a considerable hand in raising our warres p. 106. Nor do you wonder if it be true that the Papists did not onely kindle our warrs here and blow the coals on both sides but also that it was by the Roman influence that the late King was put to death Claud Salm Defens Regis c. 10 c. 11. p. 108. When I compare your words with the words of Salmasius I guesse that the Papists and Presbyterians were both assistants to one another in contriving the mischieves of which you spake Sect. 7. You say on in your Preface Grotius at last is but a Papist with an ●f c. that had Grotius been living you think you should have had more thanks from him then I and that if you understand him he took it for his glory to be a Member of that Body of which the Pope is the Head even to be a Roman Cath●lick Sect. 2. Thus it pleaseth you to speak though without any tolerable shew of truth nor is there any proof offered but that so you think and if you understand him It s very strange that the one point on which your machine is wholly founded of the Grotian Religion and the new way in which the Prelatists are involved to wit Grotius his being a Roman Catholick should be thus feebly introduced with an I think and if I understand him An humble begging of the Question were a gentile quality to this There is hardly any the least of your baffled Adversaries but will be able to say as much in his own defence against your Aphorismes your Adversaries think or else they speak against their conscience and if they understand you 't is thus and thus you are a Socinian and a Papist and the worser sort of them too as some of your
your own Brotherhood you have endeavour'd to ex●ose to shame and laughter before you censure those men who give you Examples of Moderation Who it is that abuseth the choicest of G●d's Servants Sect. 10. I know not well what you mean by the choicest of God● servants it being become in these Times a most equivocal Expression If you mean King Iames his Puritans I have spent a whole Chapter for the Rectification of your mistake If such as truly serve God who have also writen against Puritanes whereof I have given you a speoimen in Bishop Andrews Doctor Sanderson and other Episcopal Divines you know that Those are the men whom I am constantly defending If God hath any choice servants in any sense you are certainly the man who have writ against them for you have writt●n even with bitterness against your own Saints as in your calmer moods you sometimes call them But your Bitterness to the Bishops and to the Regular Sons of the Church of England and to all persons of honour in any part of the Land who either partake of the Common Prayer or attend to the preaching of the E●isco●al Clergy I say your Bitterness ●o These is so ineffably great that mo●tal man cannot express it but by re●eating your own Termes I should proceed to shew you your frightful self from the Ten last pages of your Grotian Rel●gion but that I see you have reprinted the substance of th●m in your Enormous Preface to your New Book of Church G●vernment and Worship which I intend to consisider towards the end of my Appendix Sect. 11. It shall suffice in this place to put you in mind of your Malignity to a profound and pious Episcopal Divine Made appear by an Example whose Certificate touching the Primate I was constrain'd to make publick You call him a man of the New Way a Grotian-papist 't is thought you mean You say he blasted a good business by an unpeaceable writing and did not onely foment a Schism but fomented it by poor Insufficient Reasonings p. 118. Pretty words for a conclusion to your Grotian Religion But such as will sufficiently put their speaker to Rebuke as soon as your Readers shall be inform'd that your Bolt was shot at Mr. Gunning For how can you hope to be believ'd when you shall let flie your Censures of other men after the liberty you have taken to write so grosly of Mr. Gunning The world will conclude you extremely incontinent of your Passion when they shall find you throwing it out in three such palpable Contradictions as that Mr. Gunning was the Author of an unpeaceable writing that Mr. Gunning was guilty of Fomenting a Schism and that any thing poor or insufficient fell from Mr. Gunning Had you been honour'd with the Advantage of having sate for some years at his learned Feet you had certainly attain'd a greater measure of Understanding than to have mention'd his Writing with such irreverence AN APPENDIX Conteining a Rejoynder to Diverse Things both in The Key for Catholicks and in The Book of Disputations of Church-Government and worship c. WHilst I was drawing towards an End of what I thought fit to advertise you The chief Occasion of this Appendix concerning the principall Misadventures of your Grotian Religion my Stationer sent me two bookes at least as bitter and as irrational as the worst of that stuff which was laid before me It seemes my silence was hurtfull to you And what I intended in my Advertisment behind my 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 for nothing more than a promise that I would Answer you at leisure with an addition of Reasons for my Delay you fall upon with as much confidence and that in two Bookes at once as if you had hope'd that That Promise had been the onely Performance that I had meant you So very little is my Concernment in what you Intitle a Reply wherein you add little or nothing to your Grotian Religion how much soever you borrow from it That I might wel have abstained from giving you the Trouble of this Appendix by referring you to my Answer as a sufficient Rejoynder to your Reply but that I heare you are a scorner and so unhappily inclinable to flatter your self with your misfortunes as to think you are fear'd when you are but pityed and passed by Some men must be dealt with if not for other mens sakes yet for their owne if not because they deserve Resistance yet because they may want it to check their Pride It being pity in my opinion so to despise any mans weaknesse as to make him dream he is irresistible The Patient's acknowledgment of his Disease Sect. 2. This is the chief consideration by which I am moved to this Appendix there being nothing more visible in your two last Bookes than that you are sick of a shrewd Disease which having swell'd up to your Throat and broken out at your mouth doth serve to justify the charge which was fram'd against you by Dr. Owen without the Help of your own † See your Disp. of right to Sacram. 5. p. 486. Where you also confess you are Hypocriticall Making bolder with your self than I should ever have allow'd you by my consent Acknowledgment that you are proud and selfish Very faine would I follow my Inclinations to treat you as gently in the Conclusion as in the Beginning of my Book And what incredible pleasure should I have taken in the present Discussion of Diverse Truths had you but left me the possibility to be as respectfull towards your self as you must acknowledg me to have been towards a Couple of your Superiours by name D. Reynolds and Dr Bernard But so throughly have you convinc't me by your * Key for Catholicks from p. 381 to p. 194. Five Disp. of Church Gov. and Worship Preface from p. 16. to p. 38. two late Volumes of the irrefragable Orthodoxie and Truth of what you have put upon Record in another Place to wit † Disp. 5. of Sacram. p. 486. That your Pride neede 's sharper Reprehensions then your friends have ever us'd about you I do but Echo your own words that I must Cross my Inclinations and change my stile for no other end then to serve your Needes For you give it me under your hand both that your Malady is dangerous and that it needs a rough Cure You are not like Alexander's † 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 Diod. Sic. 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 B●cephalus to be subdued with soft usage My Brotherly Gentleness you * Grot. Rel. Praef. Sect. 4. spake of hath but inrag'd you my Moderation which you * Ibid. acknowledged hath made you Fierce my Charity towards you which you * Ibid. applauded hath accidentally Occasion'd your greatest Hatred For not to speak yet of your innocent Railing which I may therefore call Innocent because it is too gross to hurt me mark how desperately you strike both at my Lively-hood and my Life
Cor. 10.12 seem to themselves to stand the more I would have them to take heed lest they fall Sect. 5. Hereupon I ask you Did you promise in your Title-page to vindicate David as an Adul●erer or as a Murderer or as one who repented of all his wickedn●ss If the former you are professedly a Pleader for gross impiety if the latter you have not spoken to the purpose nor resisted any thing at all but what was the fruit of your private fancy Sect. 6. The same I may say of S. Peter also Of Peter Puritans and Sequestrations in the Title-page For I spake against nothing in all his life except his cowardize and his perjurie and his flat denial of the Lord Iesus for which he hated himself and did not write a vindication I onely spake of such Puritans as I described to be hypocrites having onely a form of godliness but denying the power of it the impurest creatures in the sight of God and good men as for other reasons so for this also that they are the * Pro. 30.12 Isa. 65.5 purest in their own I spake of such Sequestrations as were confessed to be unlawful by eminent Ministers of your own party and that in print nay detested by your self if I may credit your own words p. 111. Of all which when you profess to take upon you a vindication I know not how you will free your self from siding with sin on the one side or from strange impertinence on the other I will have so fair an opinion of you as to think you incurr'd this inconveni●nce by writing hand over head as egged on by the heat of your present interest and passion which gave you not time to consider that you were writing against your interest and against your intentions of writing for it If this were the worst as it is really the best that I am able to make of so bad a matter I shall be very glad of it and hope that as you have offended through too much haste so you will make amends for it at greater leisure I say I hope it so much the rather because if you find you are mistaken you have offered me your promise of recantation Sect. 7. You see how willing I am to put the best construction upon your words that your words will bear which course I wish you would have taken with me and Grotius in stead of the worst that you could fancy either of his words or mine I shall hope to overcome you in nothing more then in the measure of my civility and candid usage And therefore I pray do me the justice whenever you find your self afflicted with any portion of my Discourse to consider from whence the affliction riseth It shall not arise from any such bitterness of words or ce●sures as you and others have poured out against me you indeed much less then others but from the nature of your own matter from the condition of your own failings and from the evidence of the conviction which my conscience forbids me to let you want Sect. 8. I shall begin with your Preface and in that with your thoughts of Grotius which lying scattered up and down in many parts of your Book I shall endeavour to gather up as far as my leisure will permit and occasion serve to be considered by themselves in the following Chapter I shall direct my speech unto your Reverend self not upon any other motive then a civil compliance with your example The former half of your book which you call a Preface being onely divided into Sections and the later h●lf being printed with a notification of the pages I think it will be my easiest way so to distinguish in my citations as to note the Sections onely of the former and onely the pages of the later It is in order to my ease that I resolve on this course and in order to yours that I take this care to advertise you CHAP. I. Concerning Grotius his Religion and Design Sect. 1. IN the entrance of your Preface you professe to render m● that accompt of your thoughts of Grotius and his English followers which I was pleased to demand and make your duty And that you had much rather have been excused from stirring in this unpleasing business any more Sect. 1. I had wonder●d that in your Title-page you should say you did what you did at Mr. Pierce his invitation I wonder more that in your preface you would say you did it at my demand Truly if I did either it is more then I know And I may say 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 where and when and by whom did I demand any such thing Two lines in a letter will suffice you to answer this easie Question Sect. 2. It is well you call them your thoughts of Grotius which may be strangely mistake● and yet your thoughts still It had been more for your interest if you had not pretended in your Title to an undoubted Discovery of the Grotian Religion meaning his being turn'd Papist as you have often explain'd your self For now we have it under your hand that you h●ve but discovered your thoughts of Grotius This indeed is a modest and proper speech because your thoughts are such private and hidden things that God alone can discern them whilst you are silent we silly mortalls cannot come at them but by that discovery which you are plea●'d to make of th●m But Grotius whilst he was living was at once a publick and a most Exemplary person much more are his writings since his Translation To make a Discovery of the Sun who is best discerned by his own Light were to suppo●e the world is Blind and he alone quick sighted who undertakes to ●hew him to all the rest But to discover what a man thinkes of the Sun or Moon as to the nature of his substance his sphaere and motion hath nothing in it either of singular or absurd It is for want of a better thing that I content my self with this Resemblance in comparing Grotius unto the Sun His works give Light unto the world They all lye open as well to me as to your self You are led by some Reasons to think that Grotius was a Papist and I have met with many more which make me know him to have been none Of his Engi●sh ●ollowers Sect. 3. But what do you mean by his English Followers Hath any English-man of late either dead or alive written any Design of pacification between the Protestant and Popish parties All that can be said is this that the unwavering men of the Church of England do love the writings of Grotius much more then those of the Presbyterians and more then the Presbyterians love them Now if to read his Books and to admire them doth make us fit to be reckon'd amongst his Followers your self must passe for one of the chiefe because you tell me p. 4. You must i● gratitude professe that you have learnt more from Grotiu●
then from almost any Writer in those subjects that ever you read Hardly any can speak higher unless I except Dr. Owen who saith that Grotius was almost-wise above the pitch of humane Nature if that is the meaning of his Latin ultra humanitatem pene sapuisse and that in * In omni literatura all manner of learning insomuch that he thinks there is nothing comparable to him if that is his meaning by Quicquam ei sim●le esse vix credo Yet this Gentleman and you have been so far from avowing the being Followers of Grotius that ye are the onely men amongst us who have shewed your selves his publick Enemies Although ye vehemently d●ffered between your selves yet ye agreed in this that ye were both against Grotius Nay in this your Agreement ye differ'd too with a witnesse For he would have Grotius a Socinian and you a Papist Now a Papist and a Socinian are not onely so different but so utterly irreconcileable that nothing but Grotius his moderation can afford any excuse to one or other of his Accusers You have justified Grotius from the Heresie of Socinianism which you confesse he hath too often been charged with p. 89. And so you have sided with the Prelatists against the man before mentioned He again hath freed Grotius from the suspicion of being a Papist if no Socinian can be a Papist as you know none can and so hath sided with the Prelatists against your self I mean by Prelatists the unchangeable Divines of the Church of England Such as those two Reverend and Righteous men Dr. Hammond and Mr. Thorn●ike whom I onely single out for this one reason because they have vindicated Grotius from each extreme of the Calumny which betwixt you two hath been cast upon him And to prepare you for the evidence with which I shall afterwards entertain you as well as to give you some ground to suspect your own judgment by letting you see how it differ's from such as theirs I think it as usefull as it is pertinent to give you some of their words There is no colour for this suggestion of Grotius his closeing with the Roman interest as far as Grotius his writings give us to judge Dr. Hammonds words in his second Def●nce of Grotius p. 5. and farther then those I have no perspective to examin his Heart For the Fomenters of the Divisions in Christendom being the onely persons whom he professed to oppose the irreconciliabiles qui aeterna cupiunt esse dissidia 't is consequent that the pacificatory interest was the onely one by him espoused and pursued most affectionately And I could never yet discern by any pregnant indication that this is the Roman interest We have seen two men of repute now amongst us censure Grotius his Labours upon the Scriptures Mr. Thorndikes words in his Epilogue to the Tragedy of the Church of England Epist. to the Reader p. 5. The one hath made him a Socinian the other a Papist Both could have given us no better Argument that he was Neither then this that he cannot be Both. I do but instance in an eminent person who must needs be a Papist though never reconciled to the Church of Rome who must needs be a Socinian though appealing to the originall consent of the whole Church Upon what Termes should there be any such thing as Papists or Socinians I remember an Admonition of his bitter Adversary Dr. Rivet that the See of Rome will never thank him for what he writ And from hence I inferred as charity obliged me to infer that the common good of Christianity and of God's Church obliged him to that for which he was to expect thanks on no side Thi● for certain Grotius never lived by maintaining Division in the Church whether any body doth so or not I say not their Master will judge them for it if they do Now Sir let me tell you that unlesse you think you have read more or can better judge in your Reading of Grotius his writings then the so venerable persons who speak before us you ought at least to suspend your censure untill you shall find by all that follows upon whose Misadventure you ought to place it If you shall possibly say that these are two of the English Followers of whom you speak you cannot do Grotius a greater pleasure they having both given blows to the Church of Rome more then all the whole party with whom you joyne To calumniate Grotius confe●sed odious You say you do confesse it an odious thing to calumniate so Learned a man as Grotius and all others of his mind and way and that you must needs rep●nt and recant if you be guil●y of so great a Crime Sect. 1. Sect. 4. I would very fain know which are the men of his way as that is distinguished from his mind and seems to signifie his practice And what way it is which here you allude to obscurely but do not name I for my part can think of none but his not communicating in France with either Papists or Protestants And amongst us here in England I know nothing like it except the way of the Presbyterians many of whom for diverse yeares have been so averse unto Communions that in their Churches the world knows they have not had any at all yet even this way of his is sufficient to evidence his being no Papist As I shall shew most clearly in due time and place Repentance promised ex hypothesi Sect. 5. Because you promise Repentance and Recantation if you be found to be guilty of so great a Crime as you call it to calumniate such a man as Grotius I will first set down how far forth you have accused him next I will manifest his innocence of that whereof he stands charged and then I will leave you to consider whether you ought not to make him some Reparations You do not content your self to say Gro●ius accused of turning Papist he was a Favourer of the Papists and one who thought not so hardly of them as other Protestants have done or that he was strongly inclin'd that way and put the best interpretation upon their Doctrins that they were capable of bearing that the Peace of Christendom might not seem so impossible as some would make it or that he stood in a preparedness of mind to reconcile himself unto the Papists upon condition the Papists also would reconcile themselves unto the moderate Protestants and the moderate Protestants unto them for this had been to say no more then I can say of Thuanus that he favoured the Protestants on all occasions although he remained a Papist still But you have said in grosse Termes That he took it for his glory to be a Roman Catholick Sect. 2. That h● turned Papist p. 11. That he dropt by thi● meanes into a deplorable Schism Ibid. So as if I shall demonstrate that there was never any such thing and that Grotius did not turn Papist no