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ID	Title	Author	Corrected Date of Publication (TCP Date of Publication)	STC	Words	Pages
A09107	A relation of the triall made before the King of France, vpon the yeare 1600 betvveene the Bishop of Eureux, and the L. Plessis Mornay About certayne pointes of corrupting and falsifying authors, wherof the said Plessis was openly conuicted. Newly reuewed, and sett forth againe, with a defence therof, against the impugnations both of the L. Plessis in France, & of O.E. in England. By N.D.	Parsons, Robert, 1546-1610.	1604 (1604)	STC 19413; ESTC S121884	121,818	242

about the premisses I haue not thought amisse to resent in part by this postscript what occurreth vnto me in this behalfe And first of all is the wonderfull prouidence of almighty God in conseruation and continuation of the ould ancient Catholike Apostolike vniuersall faith left at the assension of our Sauiour vnto his followers and visible Church that then was and spread by them miraculously in very short space ouer all the world and continued euer since by tradition and succession of one age to another vntill our tyme vnder the protection and mighty powerable defence of the same Lord and Sauiour and vnder the gouernement of his only espouse the said Catholike Church Against which Church discent of faith therin though many new fantasyes and deuises of particular men which holy scriptures call heresies haue spronge vp in euery age with fresh and glisteringe titles of pure ghospell of new reueyled truth of godly reformation and other like pretenses and that God for more triall and exercise of his said Church for the speedier redresse perhaps of some abuses and corrupt manners crept into some part therof hath permitted the said new inuentions to preuayle grow and ruffle for a tyme as by experiēce of all ages we haue seene yet euer in the end he bringeth the same to confusion and shame accordinge to those words of the Psalme Percussit inimicos suos in posteriora opprobrium sempiternum dedit eis He striketh his enemyes in the hinder parts that is towards the end of their ruffle and confoundeth them with euerlasting shame Which prophesy of the Psalmist is principally to be vnderstood of hereticall enemyes as Tertullian Epiphanius other anciēt Fathers wryting against them do interprete and the experience of like end in all heresies past doth make yt playne And this shame and confusion of heresies heretiks which Gods prouidence doth heere fortell and in tyme also bringeth to passe so manifestly as the whole world may be wittnesse therof consisteth principally in foure points as holy Fathers do note First that euery new sect diuideth it selfe quickly into many others sects and heresies which S. Augustine sheweth largely of the Arrians and Donatists and Staphilus Lyndanus and other wryters of our time do shew the same of Luthers sect diuided into so many sects branches in so few yeares as all the world seeth And Stanislaus Rescius a learned man of Polonia● in his late booke of the Atheisine of haeretiks sheweth out of the wrytings of protestants themselues that in the yeare 1596. when he wrote his booke which was but 4. yeares past that there were now extant in the world 270. different sects all risen out of Luthers from the yeare 1517. wherin Luther began All which he declareth at length the reason of this so great multiplication is giuen by Tertullian in his booke Of prescription against heretikes aboue 1400. yeares past sayinge That for so much as euery scholler of a sectary knoweth that his maister inuented his opinions of his owne head he will inuent also somethinge himselfe therby to shew that his witt is not inferiour to that of his Maisters And heerby they come to such confusion in the end that one destroyeth the other Wherof Luther himselfe is a good witnesse when he wryteth these words Truly God doth not fight by any other meanes with heretiks then by permittinge among them a certayne seditious spiritt of dissention by which their ouerthrow also and perdition doeth ensue So he who is a wittnesse in this cause without exception as yow know The second reproach followinge sectaryes is Contradiction to themselues in their owne wrytings and sayings and shamfull inconstancy in their doctrine The reason wherof is for that the said doctrine consystinge only in the inuention iudgment and memorye of the sectarye himselfe that inuented yt or chose to follow yt though inuented by another for whatsoeuer they alleage of scripture or other antiquity must depend of their owne new inuented interpretation of necessity it must follow that as their talents and witts discourse or memory do alter change or faile in tyme so must the doctrine also therof dependinge be altered And so eyther forgetting what they said in one time or place or matter or hauing altered their iudgment or opiniō vpon some further reason which then they saw not they must needs come to say cōtrary to that they did before In which kind of contradiction some thousands haue byn noted by learned men in Luther himselfe no maruayle seeing he was the first of that sect that inuented new opinion● dayly And the same is obserued in Caluyns wrytings by VVestphalus Hesshusius and other Lutheran Protestants that wrote against him The third confusion that followeth commonly vpon heresie is coldnes doubtfulnesse in Religion and at length also plaine atheisme and contempt and thervpon dissolution of life neglect of conscience and other sutable effects which therfore among heretiks principally do ensue For that heresie callinge into question and shaking the very pillars and strongest meanes wherby men remayned assured before of their faith to witt the number quality and right vnderstandinge of holy scriptures tradition of the Church from whome we receaued them the verity of Ecclesiasticall storyes Christian miracles authority of generall Councells creditt of ancient Fathers and the like and breakinge downe besides the hedges and walles that were wont to be bulwarks to good life as Confession Restitution Satisfaction fastinge vowinge and other helpes of that quality this I say being once done which is the proper worke of heresy a man runneth naturally into doubt contempt of all and consequently leesing by little and little both feare and shame geueth himselfe ouer easily to all licentious liberty and sensuality of life which the Apostle calleth Desperation And thus much of the cause of this third reproach For as for the effect yt selfe to witt that these fruits haue followed in the world since heresies came in much more then euer before I could alleage both Luther himselfe and Erasmus Roterodauius and other authors of most creditt with Protestants testifyinge of their dayes and as for England yt selfe the present knowledge experience of thousands will beare me witnesse Wherfore I meane to prosecute no further these first 3. reproaches followinge heresies and heretiks to witt● diuision among themselues contradiction to themselues and dissolution of life or propension to Atheisme though for the Readers fuller instruction therin yf he vnderstand the Latin tongue I must needs giue him notice of two famous bookes wrytten of late of that argument by two excellent learned men of our tyme taken out of the works themselues of all the Sectaryes of this age The one is of our contreyman Maister VVilliam Reynolds once fellow of new-colledg in Oxford a Protestant Preacher intituled Caluino● turcismus that is of

to all France which now doth shed teares for ioy to see their King to excell as much all others in piety deuotion and zeale towards the aduauncement of Gods Church as he hath surpassed them in valour and victory This first conference ended the L. Plessis goinge from the combatt pale astonished and maruelously confounded fell into great conuulsions vomitinge tremblinge of his body for the rest of that day and for all the day followinge was possest with a strange vniuersall tremblinge of all the members of his body and euer synce hath remayned sicke and hath not byn able nor durst shew himselfe I pray God this may serue not so much to his confusion as to his cōuersion whome I beseech also to graūt you my L. a good a happy life From paris this 10. of may 1600. Your humble and affectionated seruant Iames B. of Eureux Postscript This letter which I wryte vnto your honour is a copy of that which I wryte to Cardinall Aldebrandino and to the Cardinall of Aux because the bearer vrged by the post hath not giuen me leasure to do otherwise The superscription To my Lord. The L. Silary the K. Counselour of his Counsell of State Embassadour for his Maiestie at Rome AN EXTRACT OF ANOTHER LETTER VVRITTEN BY THE Popes Nuntio resident in Paris vnto Cardinall Aldobrandino the Popes Nephew in Rome the 12. of May 1600. CHAP. IX I HAVE freshly receaued newes from Fountaine-bleau of the prosperous successe of the conference betwene the B. of Eureux and the L. Plessis Mornay The Bishopp hath conuinced manifestly by the iudgment and sentence of all the assistants the falshoods as he had before promised Wherfore the said Plessis was so ashtonished and troubled that he fell presently sicke of an Ague The King himselfe in this conference hath shewed great vnderstandinge and no lesse zeale to the Catholike Religion The whole redoundeth much to the confusion of the Hugonotts heere who held Plessis for their S. Augustine c. Paris the 12. of May 1600. THE WORDS OF ANOTHER LETTER VVRITTEN FROM PARIS the 10. of May about the same matter by a gentleman of accoumpt CHAP. X. HEERE hath byn some 4. dayes past a great conference at Fontayne bleau 15. leagues hence betwene Monsieur Peron B. of Eureux Monsieur Plessis Mornay Counselour to his Maiestie Gouernour of Saumur and generall of the Hugonotts The K. with other Princes were present and iudges chosen appointed for both partyes In the end Plessis Mornay was vtterly disproued and confounded by a generall consent of both sides and shamed in so much as the K. rose vp from his place swore Ventre S. Gry he had heard and seene inough of Plessyes falsityes that by Act of Parlament he would cause his bookes to be burned sayinge that himselfe had all his youth tyme ben abused and carryed away with their corruptions He presently sent word vnto the Duke of Espernon sayinge that the B. of Eureux had gotten the gouernement of Saumur and willed that the Doctors Preachers in Paris should be aduertised therof to publish yt and so yt is in pulpitts with great ioy and thanks to God The Hugonotts are stroken more dead with with this accident then yf they had lost a battle of 40. thousand men Plessis Mornay himselfe is fallen sicke vpon yt vomitts bloud and lookes like himselfe There was present of Plessis side a great Hugonot of accoumpt amōg other called Monsieur du Gramond who seing the euent of that conferēce said that he neuer in his life durst follow Monsieur Plessis for a Captayne but now he would lesse follow him for a diuyne It is hoped that the said Gramond will become a Catholike vpon yt Monsieur du Rosney also and heresie was neuer so likely to go to wracke in France as at this present c. Paris this 10. of May 1600. An addition of the translatour HITHERTO are the letters which I haue thought good to translate out of French to sett downe in this place concerning the euent of this triall and combat as also of the great and high honour which the most Christian King of France hath gayned by being present furthering the same in his royall person Which act will be vnto him besides the benedictiō of almighty God t●erby gayned as we hope an euerlastinge praise with all posterity And yf yt might please the same mighty hand of our Sauiour by his holy grace to inspire the heart of her Maiestie of England by the example of so famous a fact of her neighbour and colleague and deare Cosyn the K. of France to take the same course in England and to heare and permitt the like triall betweene such Catholiks as would offer to prooue conuince the like falshoods falsifications and greater also perhaps in the chiefe protestant wryters of our nation as Iewell Fox Fulke the like and that some of the learned and zealous of the other side might be intreated or commaunded toe defend the same or if they refuse this then at least some competent number of equall iudges might be assigned on both sides to heare the matter with the same lawes and conditions as the matter passed in France to witt that no point of controuersie or disputation be admitted to be disputed of but only matter of fact discussed As for example whether such and such places and authorityes as are cyted quoted in their wrytings out of Fathers Doctors Councells and storyes and are auouched by Catholiks to be falsified be so or no If this I say might be obtayned seeing larger triall disputation so often and earnestly by vs demaunded cannot be had and that by the wisdome and authority of her Maiestie her honourable Councell this at last might be brought to passe yt would be an infinite comfort to all sincere and true meaninge men of all sides which desyre indeed to know the truth And as for the triall it selfe yt would be more easy breefe and pleasant vnto her Maiestie and other assistants whosoeuer they should be For that as the B. of Eureux well noteth before yt wil be sufficient for this triall to bringe only eyes and to open the books whence the authorityes are cyted And to the end that some tast before hand may be taken of the matter which would breake forth in such a triall concerning the Protestants part I haue thought good to adde these few obseruations that do ensue which are of a person that would willingly offer himselfe in this seruice or at least to send and represent some part of those obseruations which to this effect he hath gathered CERTAINE OBSERVATIONS VPON THE FORMER NARRATION CHAP. XI THOVGH yt be hard for any man to reflect and make obseruations vnto himselfe of what may best be noted by the precedent story relation yet to help the Readers memory to stirre vp somwhat more his vnderstandinge and discourse

be answered albeit yf he do but sett downe the whole places themselues as they ly in the Fathers books whence they are cut they will need no answere but will answere themselues and confute the alleager and shew the shamlesse dealinge eyther of Peter martyr or Iohn Fox or of both in cytinge them The like deceytfull dealinge was vsed by Nicolas Ridley B. then of Rochester and after of London the next moneth following in the Cambridge disputation about the same controuersy of the reall presence wherof he being president Martyn Bucer refusinge vtterly to deale in that controuersie he affirmed to the whole vniuersity that he had fiue sure grounds for the opinion of Zuinglius wherof the first was to vse his words the authority Maiestie and verity of holy scriptures the second the most certayne testimonyes of the ancient Catholike Fathers c. Wheras the truth is that both these foundations are most euidently against him as much the one as the other which Bucer well k●ew therfore would not take part with him in that matter though soone after to remedy this breach he putt vp three other impertinēt questions to be disputed against Catholiks but in this other article he know that Ridley lyed shamfully against his owne conscience for that all Farthers are against him most euidently so do the Magdeburgians their cheefe Protestant Chroniclers shew declare in euery age or century of their Ecclesiasticall history And yt shal be sufficient for the reader to cast his eye ouer the 4. Chapters only of euery century intituled of doctrine And thus much for K. Edwards dayes when Zuinglian Religion first peeped vp in our countrey After this man stepped to Paules Crosse in the beginninge of this Queenes dayes about the yeare 1559. and 1560. Maister Iohn Iewell otherwise called B. of Salisbury and he proceeded yet further in this bragg or fiction For he protested there euen with feigned teares that yf any one authority place sentence or asseueration of any one Father Doctor Councell or authenticall history within the first 600. yeares after Christ could be brought forth by any man liuinge for any one of those points of Catholike Religion which he there recyted to be in controuersie that then plainely and sincerely he vvould subscribe Against which vayne and shamlesse bragg when Doctor Harding and diuers other learned men of our side began to wryte from Louayne and to bring forth authorityes of all Fathers Doctors Councells and historyes in great aboundance the first effect of this chalenge that appeared to the world was a seuere proclamation that no such bookes wrytten in English by the Catholike party should be receaued or read in England vnder great punishments by which prouision Maister Iewell thinking himselfe meetly well de●enced he plyed the pulpitt often and renewed his chalenges many tymes and perceauing notwithstāding that Doctor Hardings confutation was come into England he answered the same with a longe volume of Rhetoricall words stuffed the margents therof with the shew of infinite authors as though the whole world had byn for him and none for the other side and with this he deceaued the people then and doth to this day such I meane as haue not commodity or learninge or other meanes to examine those places and to find out the manifold lyes and falsifications therin conteyned And this was the gaine by all likely hood that Maister Iewell pretēded to his cause by that worke knowing full well that this sort of men is farre the greater which would be gayned and setled in his doctrine before the learneder sort who are but few in comparison of the other could haue tyme books and commodity to discouer refute him when they should do yt they should hardly be beleeued And in this conceate he was not deceaued yf we respect that present tyme and many yeares after as also yt is probable the L. Plessis Mornay had the like designment in stuffing vp his bookes with the like authorityes of Fathers but yf we consider the continuance of tyme wherof truth is said to be the daughter yt hath succeeded vnto him as yow haue heard and will do more and more dayly as to such shifts is wont to happen that is to say accordinge to Kinge Dauids sayinge before recorded ●ppr●brium sempiternum dedit eis God layeth euerlastinge shame vpon them For how many learned men lightly of our nation haue taken vpon seriously to go ouer that booke of Maister Iewells to examine yt by the authors themselues with any indifferency of mynd haue for the most part byn therby conuerted to Catholike Religion though neuer so great Protestants before of which sort I haue heard relation of many but of some I can testify my selfe for that I haue heard it from their owne mouthes who of earnest Protestants were made most zealous Catholikes by that meanes principally of which number I thinke yt not inconuenient to name h●●re some 2. or 3. omittinge others which for iust respects may not to be named The first of them is Syr Thomas Copley made Lord afterward in his banishment by the K. of France who often tymes hath related vnto me with much comfort of his soule how that being a zealous Protestant and very familiar to the late Earle of Licester in the beginninge of this Q. dayes when Maister Iewells booke was newly come forth he being also learned himselfe in the Latyn tongue tooke paines to examine certayne leaues therof and findinge many falshoods therin which were in excusable as they seemed to him he conferred the same with the said Earle who willed him that the next tyme Maister Iewell dyned at his table he should take occasion after dynner to propose the same which he did soone after and receauing certaine triflinge answers from Maister Iewell he waxed more hoate and vrged the matter more earnestly which Iewell perceauinge told him in effect That Papists were Papists and so they were to be dealt withall and other answere he could not gett which thinge made the good Gentleman to make a new resolution with himselfe and to take that happy course which he did to leaue his countrey and many great commodityes which he enioyed therin to enioy the liberty of consciēce for saluation of his soule and so he both liued and died in voluntary banishment for confession of that truth which his Sauiour by occasion of Maister Iewells falshood had reueyled vnto him The second example which I remember of my owne knowledge is Maister Doctor Steuens a learned man yet aliue who being Secretary or Chaplyn to Maister Iewell for I remember not well whether and a forward man in Protestant Religion at that tyme espied certayne false allegations in his Maisters booke whilst yt was yet vnder the print in London wherof aduertisinge him by letters for that he supposed yt might be by ouersight the other commaunded notwithstandinge the print to goe forward and passed it ouer